intelligence job. she just isn't. you know, she's not really meeting the level of rigor and answering our questions in a way that we want them answered. so that's going to be the key one to watch. there will be a hearing this week and then also a closed door hearing. so it will be really instructive of how the members who are in that particularly closed door portion come out, what their response is. and if, you know, they they, they let hegseth through. so this is if they're going to sink one. gabbard is the one. >> to watch steam out over here. so you can go over there. well, trump really wants her. so we'll see how that goes. all right laura davison, thank you so much. really appreciate it. of bloomberg news. that folks was way too early for a morning monday morning. wow. we made it. morning, joe. it will start right about now. >> the inauguration was a tremendous success. it was inside due to cold and fear. >> but we had a lot of surprise guests like melania. that was nice. melania showed up to my inauguration dressed like, frankly, kung lao from mortal

kombat. and you know, i had to put my nerd herd in the front row. oligarchs before oligarchs also have to ensure that all of my. >> cabinet positions are filled. >> we're filling my cabinet with some of the best people. they're all very good, except for most of them. it's been a great week. i basically hit all my campaign promises except for the one people cared about. price of eggs. all time high. who would have thought it'd be easier to get a ceasefire in gaza than bring down the price of eggs? might have to take the l on that one. you know, we're looking into some fabulous alternative egg options, such as seagull or perhaps cadbury. >> good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is monday, january 27th. we have so much to get to, including the hundreds of ice arrests across the country this weekend as the trump administration starts carrying out the president's promise to deport millions of undocumented migrants. it comes

as president trump had a brief tariff standoff with the president of colombia. we'll explain what happened there. meanwhile, president trump on friday fired nearly 20 inspectors general from the federal government will look at whether the move was legal. also, almost all foreign aid from the united states is on hold this morning. a pause. we'll dig into that executive order, and when the assistance could start up again. also ahead, we'll have the latest from israel following the release of four more hostages over the weekend. and we'll also look ahead to another busy week on capitol hill, as more of trump's cabinet picks will have their confirmation hearings. and the super bowl matchup is set. it's a rematch of the big game from two years ago. pablo torre will join us to recap championship weekend in the nfl playoffs with us. we have the co-host of our fourth hour,

jonathan lemire, president emeritus of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. he's author of the weekly newsletter home and away, available on substack and managing editor at the bulwark. sam stein did a little way too early for us this morning. appreciate that. so, joe. well, i'm just sad about the commanders. >> they had a great. well, i will tell you, there's a lot of lot of americans not really happy about the chiefs either. so let me ask you, jonathan lemire, i was doing my regular afternoon routine after coming back from the orphanage and swimming 12 miles and running my marathon, i sat down and had my barley juice or whatever. healthy people sit down, and i was watching pti and they were on friday, kornheiser and wilbon were debating whether the chiefs had reached the damned yankees status. yet, whether they are that hatable of a team, i don't

think they've won enough. and kornheiser and wilbon both said that. we just don't know that many players on there. they're not that hatable that you like them on the state farm. and i don't know, i think they're getting there, john. i think they're getting there. i've had enough of the chiefs and i, i grew up loving the chiefs. len dawson i love hank stram. i loved them all. i've had enough by now, john. i've had enough. >> yeah, they're already there. i think this is i think this was the year where america kind of reached its tipping point with the chiefs. and two things can be true at once. we can respect the chiefs. andy reid is a great coach. patrick mahomes the best quarterback in the league. they keep finding ways to win, especially these one score games. but mahomes is in every other commercial on television. travis kelce, who's had a great career as sort of a shell of himself at this point. he, of course, is also over overexposed. and yes, there's a lot of taylor swift fans who've latched on to the chiefs, but a lot of americans might be tired of that phenomenon. >> nothing wrong. >> with that. nothing wrong. >> with that. not that is that

taylor swift is a mitigating factor here. she is the only thing that stops them from being the damn yankees. but they keep they. >> keep winning. i think there's a fatigue that's set in just like happened to the patriots a few years ago during the brady belichick era. but there's also, rightly, the concerns about the officiating, where it seems like the chiefs get every single big call. >> it happened again last night. >> it happened. >> several times. it happened on on a on a key drive. once again. clearly the refs botched it. you had josh allen on a fourth and one clearly make it over the first down line. and you you had the worst mark. a guy running in the guy at the top of the screen had it. guy coming at the bottom clearly moved the ball back a half yard. you once again you had the announcers inside saying, you know in the booth saying he clearly made it. >> yeah, we're seeing it here. >> the referee. >> at the top of your screen, clear, as you just said, clearly

marks the first. >> first down. yeah. and this was on this was on a critical drive. there he is. makes his first down. and the refs it's almost like they aren't even listening to what people like don van natta and others have been saying about him. this is how how the guy at the bottom of the screen over here comes the guy at the top of the screen. he's got the mark right? and this is one on one of the critical drives. but it is what it is. the refs afterwards, it was kind of moving when patrick mahomes and the ref at the bottom of the screen exchanged jerseys, i kind of started to tear up to. >> me too. >> we'll talk. we'll we'll talk about that more when pablo comes. i want to let's let's get serious here very, very quickly. here's a quick turn. let's just look at the front pages of the papers. they new york times talking about the two big stories, both about israel, one, the attacks yesterday and the very fragile peace treaty, if

you can call it that, actually cease fire. and also the, the vague but chilling statement that gaza should be, quote, cleaned out also down below. great story on how kobe's image all over la with art on the wall. but here the wall street. wall street. yeah, okay, we dueling wall street journal. let's hold that up mika. so richard, look at the headlines here. obviously proposals to vacate gaza stuns all sides. scrambles diplomacy. i would be shocked if we go there i think it's just one of those things. it grabs headlines. but i find it very hard to believe that saudi arabia, the uae, jordan, egypt, all of our sunni arab allies in the middle east would go along with a cleaning out of

where palestinian homeland one day should be. >> well, joe, nobody in the arab world, beginning with the palestinians, but also the two countries that established peace with israel first, egypt and jordan, both of them oppose this vehemently. jordan's already 60 to 70% palestinian. they would worry that any transfer of palestinian populations would destabilize the monarchy in the country. egypt lives on a knife edge because of its enormous population and its its poverty. this just wouldn't be acceptable. no palestinian would want it. the people who are celebrating here are the far right in israel. these ministers who have been part of bibi netanyahu's government for most of the last few years, and the settler movement, because this is what they want. they want to see what's known as transfer, the pushing out of palestinians and therefore making gaza an even more important to them. the west bank, what they call judea and samaria, open to israeli

settlement, to ultimately annexation. so i think this is a nonstarter. joe, what's interesting to me is where did this come from? what does it tell us about the policy process of the new president? that an idea that is so, i think, so much a nonstarter and so potentially inconsistent with stability and peace in the region. where did this come from? why was it being surfaced the way it was? and that's what i'd like to hear a little bit more about. >> it's interesting because. >> let's go. >> joe, it's interesting because i was talking to somebody who ultimately ended up becoming a member of the cabinet, and he says a lot of the concepts are opening bids don't really know where this stands in that. but let's go live to tel aviv. we'll switch up our rundown this morning, nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez. raf, what more do we know about this? >> well, mika, this has been a dramatic and emotional weekend here in the middle east, starting with those comments by

president trump made to reporters on air force one, suggesting that 1.5 million palestinians in gaza, that is, three quarters of the population, be moved so that the strip can be, in his words, cleaned out, as he said, suggesting that they go to egypt and jordan. immediate and very firm rejections by those two arab allies of the united states, saying, as far as they are concerned, that is a total nonstarter. now, over the weekend here, those four young israeli soldiers released from hamas captivity after 477 days, very emotional scenes. as they were freed from gaza, they were reunited with their families. we actually sat with the family of one of those soldiers, larry alba. she's second from the left in that photo, and we watched with them in real time. this sort of surreal hamas spectacle. those four soldiers marched on stage in costume uniforms in front of the cameras and then released into the hands of the

red cross and handed back over to israeli forces. now that all played out very much in public, what was going on in private over the weekend where absolute crisis talks, because this ceasefire was under real strain and hamas had not released an israeli civilian called arbel. ehud, who israel says under the terms of the agreement, should have been released ahead of those four soldiers. in response, israel refusing to allow palestinian civilians to return to their homes in northern gaza. but a deal was brokered. and this week we are expecting not just the three hostages who were scheduled to come out, but six hostages in total. so arbel yahud will come out on thursday along with two others, and then those three additional hostages will come out on saturday. and mika, that is raising hopes that we may finally see american hostage keith segal, a 65 year old grandfather released from hamas

captivity sometime this week. you might remember he was taken along with his wife. his wife was released in the first stage of the deal, and he has been in gaza for 15 months now, as well as those two hostage releases, we are expecting president trump's envoy to the middle east, steve witkoff, to make his first trip here since the trump administration took office. this is a man who was deeply involved in brokering that deal in qatar, and witkoff is saying that he is not only going to visit israel, do the meetings with prime minister netanyahu that you would expect, but that he is also thinking about going into gaza himself, a cease fire, obviously on. but this is still a dangerous part of the world. so that would be a first for a senior u.s. official. >> all right. nbc's raf sanchez, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate your reporting. and, mika, you brought up before about talking to a cabinet

member in the trump administration. we've also seen jamie dimon and other people just talk when they talk about, for instance, tariffs. most see it as an opening bid. and there have been many people around donald trump that say it's the opening bid. in fact, donald trump reportedly told the senate, senate republicans last weekend that he doesn't want to quote, tax people. he doesn't want to put the tariffs on people. but he will if he has to. but he also suggested to the senate republicans that these are opening bids. we see that in the middle east. of course, it's a nonstarter in the middle east. if you if you look at saudi arabia and all the things that they want to do by extending the abraham accords, that cannot be done if gaza is, quote, cleared out, they know that. but but also fascinating what happened overnight regarding tariffs and

colombia. again we saw the opening bid. right. and then we saw the negotiations there. and it's fascinating i think we're going to see this with a lot more countries. the use of tariffs as a, quote, opening bid in negotiations. >> and of course tariffs can go both ways. the trump administration says colombia has agreed to accept deportation flights after a standoff over tariffs. the saga started yesterday when colombia denied entry to two united states military planes carrying about 80 colombian migrants each. colombia's president accused the u.s. of treating the colombian migrants like criminals and called for dignified treatment before his country would receive them. in response, president trump announced sweeping retaliatory measures against colombia, including 25% tariffs

and visa sanctions. the colombian president then responded by announcing 25% tariffs on american imports. he also threatened to stop exporting goods to the united states. but late last night, the trump administration backed off the trade threats after colombia said it would accept deportation flights. meanwhile, federal agents ramped up immigration enforcement operations over the weekend. ice reported 956 arrests made in total yesterday. that is the largest number of arrests in a single day by the trump administration to date. the operations targeted several cities across the country, with federal law enforcement agencies in multiple communities posting about assisting with immigration efforts. in denver, the dea says it targeted members of the aragua venezuelan gang in chicago. ice carried out what it called enhanced targeted operations. trump border czar

tom homan was there to oversee the effort. since president trump was inaugurated last monday, ice has made at least 2681 arrests. let's go live to chicago and nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez. gabe, you spoke to trump border czar tom homan yesterday as the immigration roundups were taking place. what did he tell you? >> hi there mika. good morning. well, no surprise, he said it was a successful operation. and over the last few days, we have seen this ramped up enforcement effort, really across the country, but also the trump administration really wanting to publicize this, i guess. no surprise. but before, during the biden administration, we did not get a daily tally of how many arrests ice had made nationwide. now we are getting it each day. as you mentioned, nearly a thousand arrests yesterday and more than 2600 since president trump took office. now chicago, of course, this is the city

where tom homan had previously said would be ground zero for mass deportations. it's again no surprise that he's here. just several days after president trump taking office. and at one point, he got into a feud with local officials who may have threatened to perhaps impede ice agents, although they've since backed off of that and said that they don't plan to get in the way of any ice agents. but tom homan said has repeatedly said that he would prosecute local officials here or anywhere else if they got in the way. but chicago is a sanctuary city, and it's a target rich environment. we know a lot of illegal aliens live here. we know we don't have access to cook county jail, one of the biggest jails in the country. and i'll say it again, if you if the politicians, the mayor and the governor would just simply work with us and let us in that jail to arrest the bad guy in jail is safer for the officer or safer for the alien and safer for the community. i don't get it. do you plan, under certain circumstances to go into

churches and schools at some point? i'll never say never. if there's a national security threat that we know is in a certain place on a college campus, we're going to get that national security threat. if he's a significant public safety threat, that that's what we used to call a central location. no, we're going to enforce a law. and that policy is different from the biden administration. mika. of course, ice now allowing its agents to go into those sensitive locations like schools and churches. but, mika, i should also point out the trump administration has sometimes made it seem as if they're beginning this deportation process from scratch. but we should point out that during the biden administration, especially during the last year, they had ramped up deportations and ice made arrests nationwide. really, throughout the biden administration, we went on one of their operations just last month. the difference is now the numbers in the last several

days, at least in the latter half of last week, do seem significantly higher. it will be interesting to see if this is sustained in the coming weeks and months ahead. tom homan says that he needs more funding from congress in order to keep ramping up these these mass deportation plans. mika. >> good morning. gabe. it's jonathan. good context there. we know that the biden numbers also the biden administration also did some of these raids. talk to us a little more about just the jump here from the trump team. but also what do they hope to do next? because that that's always been the tension point. they said the first wave would be criminals, people who committed violent crimes. but we've also heard rhetoric from those in the administration, including stephen miller, who was the architect of this whole program. that suggests that eventually the targets will be people whose only crimes were to enter the united states illegally. >> yeah. and look, if you talk to tom homan, he says that no one should be in this country illegally. and i asked him yesterday, were there collateral arrests yesterday? what collateral arrest means is

essentially when these ice agents go on one of these operations and they are searching for an immigrant with a criminal record in the process of that, they may run across other immigrants who don't have violent records. during previous administrations, the biden administration, specifically. collateral arrests, didn't happen quite so often. but now the trump administration is saying that there will be collateral arrests. the question is just how many? and jonathan, as you point out, what about the detention beds? is there enough detention space in this country? tom homan has repeatedly said there isn't. right now there are about 40,000 beds or so nationwide. he wants to have more than 100,000. of course, that requires a lot of funding from congress. ice is already facing a $230 billion budget shortfall. but what is different here is not only the increased rhetoric, the increased publicizing of these numbers, but also what tom homan said to me is the biggest difference is now the partnership from other

federal agencies as part of the operation yesterday, it wasn't just ice. there was, as you mentioned, the dea, atf, u.s. marshals office is involved in some of these, and also the dod now using those military aircraft to deport some of these immigrants around the world. jonathan. >> so, gabe, i'm sure joe here. gabe i'm sure some americans listening to what tom homan was telling you would ask themselves, why wouldn't chicago officials allow law enforcement officers to go into prisons and get illegal immigrants with violent criminal records and send them back to their home countries? do you have any insight on if that is happening, why that is happening, what the justification is of chicago or illinois officials? >> it's actually very interesting. joe and governor jb

pritzker yesterday we have seen a sort of a little bit of a change in the rhetoric with some democratic officials here. they've backed off some of their tough talk against the trump administration, making that exact point, that they agree that immigrants with criminal records should be deported. but some of the, you know, further left politicians, not just in this city, but others, they say they don't want to cooperate with ice at all. with the question of jails, joe, there's a program called the 287 g program, and that's something that is already in place. it has been for years. and certain sheriff's departments and other law enforcement agencies locally take part in it. it allows local law enforcement to partner with ice and essentially deputize those local officials to help enforce immigration law inside jails. stephen miller and the trump administration have said that they plan to ramp up that program specifically, and it will again, be interesting to see how many local officials

essentially agree to that and try to get some of the more violent criminals out of here because they realize politically that is something that this country voted for. donald trump ran on immigration, and many of his voters can say that they want those violent criminals out of there. and as jonathan mentioned, though, the question will be how many collateral arrests will there be moving forward? will there be the detention bed space for that? and how soon before the trump administration moves in that direction? joe, mika and jonathan. >> all right. nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez. thank you. and when we come back, richard, we're going to get your take on this on the tariffs and other world events as well. still ahead on morning joe, republican senator lindsey graham breaks with president trump calling his january 6th pardons a mistake. we'll show you those new remarks and speak with two former federal prosecutors who worked on several january 6th cases. plus, a brazen robbery in europe

as thieves use explosives to break into a museum and steal ancient artifacts. we'll go over what happened there and what investigators are saying. also ahead, a big announcement regarding forbes and know your value. our 50 over 50 list. we're going to take a look at some of the trailblazers who are shaping everything from cybersecurity to science and even traffic safety. all that. and pablo torre on the super bowl matchup. morning joe is back in 90s. >> it was all i hoped it would be. but monday morning, monday morning couldn't. guarantee. morning couldn't. guarantee. that monday evening you would businesses start small, but a lot of them take off. as your business grows, shipstation grows with you. so you can sync and manage all your orders...

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abolitionists by pro-slavery mobsters. and i was reading on heather cox richardson's newsletter yesterday the entire speech, because we've heard we heard parts of the speech. but i didn't realize that lincoln was only 28 when he did the lyceum speech. and it was on defending the political institutions of america. and in that speech, lincoln said this at what point shall we expect the approach of danger? by what means shall we fortify against it? shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? never. all the armies of europe, asia and africa, combined with all the treasure of earth, our own, accepted in their military chest with a bonaparte for a commander could not by force take a drink from the ohio. or make a track

on the blue ridge in a trial of a thousand years. i've always loved that line. in a trial of a thousand years. at what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? i answer if it ever reach us, it must bring up amongst us. it cannot come from abroad. if destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. as a nation of freemen, we must live through all time or die by suicide. and you know, richard, again, it's just. it's just so timely. when we hear people talking about civil war, the movie's out, talking about civil war. you have an america that's divided in two camps politically, and i must say politically, because i know a lot of people who voted for both candidates, and i know you do as well. and we seem to manage away from social media or away from cable news or these

other places in business settings and social settings. that does happen. but there is there is more of a division over the last ten, 15 years, i think in large part because of the media ecosystem that we live in. so lincoln's words today, on the anniversary of his speech on january 27th, 1838, ring true. we must stand together. he also, of course, later would say a house divided against itself cannot stand. >> now the line of destruction be our lot. the real threat to the integrity of this country, to the fabric of america, is not going to come from abroad. from now. you'd say the china's, the russia's, the north korea's or anybody else. it's from within. and all the trends are with political scientist joe called sorting s o r t i n g. you know that red america is getting more red. blue america is getting more blue. and there's less and less interaction between the two. it's one of the reasons that people like me are so

intent on bringing back things like greater national or public service to bring americans together who are living in these ideological and informational silos. the reason that people like me are so intent on getting civics in our classrooms to remind americans about what, what, what the ideas were that that led to the formation of this, this country. but lincoln's words, you know, they echo powerfully. they resonate powerfully today. >> they really do. i mean, we i totally agree with you, richard. we need we need to strengthen our institutions, respect and strengthen our institutions. we, of course, need to respect the rule of law because as people always told me on the campaign trail and reminded me, we are not a government of men. we are a government of laws that have to be respected. and finally, to richard's point, we need a well-informed electorate. as as i think, jefferson said. and so i agree. i think, you know, we have all these requirements in school. i we really need to

teach history. every school needs to teach history. some of the best schools in america don't require their students to even scratch the surface of american history. world history. so civics. yes, i also man, i know it's really unpopular, but wouldn't it be something if after high school. >> yes. >> we looked at a year of national service. 100% something that would actually bring americans together, bring young americans together to understand, to build that community for the strength of america and understand that we have so much more in common than we don't. so we'll see. but anyway, thanks to heather cox richardson, she she just always not you know, i don't want john meacham to get jealous, but she, she just she she has great, great insights, great historical

insights. and this certainly was timely. >> that was good, joe. but you're no john meacham. so we'll move on now to. no, that was good. >> well, well we'll see. what meacham would do is he would talk about the speech lincoln gave to the local springfield kiwanis club three weeks later. yeah. on on the water buffalo. but anyway, we'll talk to him about that tomorrow. >> okay, so time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. the central intelligence agency is now saying covid 19 was likely leaked from a chinese lab before it became a global pandemic. that's according to a statement the agency released on saturday, pointing the finger at china but also acknowledging the cia has, quote, low confidence in its own conclusion. a source tells nbc news the review was ordered and completed in the final weeks of the biden administration, and then was declassified by the trump

administration. this seems still a little. yeah, yeah, a little fuzzy, joe. >> well. >> well well well, well. it sounds a little fuzzy because it still is a little fuzzy. sam stein correct. so the cia, during the biden administration was was kept going back and forth there. they again, they have quote, low confidence in this, but they also had a low confidence in coming out and saying that it that it happened in some other way. so bill burns, the cia director, as the new york times reported that as they got near the end of biden's administration, he said, i don't know if bill burns ever said, dude, but he probably if he lived in northwest florida, he would have. he basically said, dude, dude, like pick a side. like, the cia needs an official side. the evidence is not overwhelmingly compelling on

either side. but we can't just sit in the middle. so they have picked a side which certainly aligns with the new cia director. not shocked, not stunned that that's the side they picked. >> yeah. this is one of those things that's been relitigated ad nauseam at this point. the scientific consensus is a little bit more towards the human side, animal to human jump than what the cia has concluded. but obviously there's a lot of, you know, debate over the origins of this virus. it matters materially, obviously, because if this was a lab leak that can affect both what we do diplomatically, but also our world health institutions and how they approach the chinese. but ultimately, we're 4 or 5 years now past when this happened. we need some clarity. i'd like to get some more clarity on it, but it seems like we're at this place where we're just going to keep debating the

origins of it, and that's unfortunate. >> yeah. i mean, you know, the thing is, mika, there is one thing we do know. we don't know if it's a lab leak. we don't know if it happened in a wet market. one thing we do know is that the chinese kept the trump administration out there, like matt pottinger was trying desperately to get in to get the answers early on, and china would not let him in. i mean, you know, this hit america. we really were aware of it. and in march of 2020, in december of 2019, he was he was like ringing the alarm bell, trying to get the chinese to give us information. they stonewalled. and so here we are, five years later, still asking questions that the chinese could have let us get in early 2020 at the very, very latest. >> okay. >> i don't. >> think it's that much of a mystery. sorry, folks. you know, the law of parsimony. occam's razor. this is a unique laboratory. the idea that the

disease broke out in wuhan, that'd be one hell of a coincidence. the reason it's still at all fuzzy is the chinese essentially have eradicated any evidence that made it impossible for any of the people working at the lab to speak. but i think it's i you know, i am comfortable with the conclusion that the only reason it's low confidence is because there's not sufficient evidence anymore, and we're never going to get it. the chinese are worried about being blamed. they're worried about reparations. but again, you'd have to believe in coincidence, coincidences on top of them. the idea that this broke out in this city, i think the argument is pretty powerful that it came from these experiments there and then, you know, it raises some very awkward questions about american funding of some of these experiments and, and so forth. but i think it's i don't think this is actually a big mystery anymore. >> all right. more news now in southern california, firefighters got some much needed relief battling wildfires as rain fell in the area over the weekend. but the region is now under a flood watch until this afternoon. officials are

warning residents in burned areas that scattered showers could bring about hazardous waste, toxic ash runoff and mudslides. in preparation, officials put out sandbags and installed concrete barriers. they also started clearing out debris in fire affected neighborhoods, and dutch police are investigating a daring burglary over the weekend. surveillance video from early saturday morning shows three suspects pulling on a door at the drents museum in the netherlands. moments later, there's a large explosion that removed the door from its hinges. police say the thieves got away with a golden helmet and golden bracelets that date back to the fifth century bc, which once belonged to romanian royalty. so. >> joe, i. >> have a question for. >> sam stein. >> yeah. >> well, yeah. well, you know,

it's very interesting. i facetimed amir last night. i saw something that looked vaguely like that. sam stein, are you with me? like, i, i called i called amir all week, and i go, where are you? he goes, brooklyn. i go, well, why did it have that? like, i had a different ring. he goes. the bronx. i mean, come on, sam, i, i think had a busy weekend. >> i had trouble reaching number two. and then he answered the phone. and there's all this random dutch speaking in the background. and mazel talk, because he has a helmet over him. and i just don't know. jonathan, where were you? >> yeah. >> i like to watch nfl playoff games and dutch sports bars. what can i say? >> okay. coming up, pablo torre is here to recap the championship weekend for the nfl playoffs and break down the matchup for super bowl 59. morning joe is back in just a

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of the mountain. first and goal line still has it to the five. and in for the touchdown.

>> there he is kansas city chiefs quarterback patrick mahomes adds his second rushing touchdown to his 245 yards passing. he also got a td in the air against the buffalo bills last night. that one gave the chiefs the lead early in the fourth quarter. the bills tied the game on the next possession. nine play, 90 yard drive capped by josh allen's big fourth down throw to curtis samuel in the back of the end zone. but mahomes answered with four consecutive completions to set up a go ahead field goal. and then the chiefs defense did the rest of the work. kc making a huge stop on what will be buffalo's final drive, denying the bills on fourth down to force a turnover with two minutes left to play. allen had a shot at that ball. tough tough catch. couldn't bring it in. chiefs get a couple first downs to run out the clock. and they win 32 to 29. and the afc title game their dreams of a three peat still alive. the chiefs will meet a familiar opponent in the super bowl after the philadelphia eagles dismantled the washington commanders for the nfc title earlier yesterday

that star running back saquon barkley. he rushed for 118 yards and three touchdowns. >> go giants! >> including that one on the eagles first play from scrimmage. washington had moved the ball down the field slowly. one play bang. touchdown. eagles also took advantage of four turnovers by the commanders. the commanders just ran out of magic yesterday, and philly scored the most points by a team in a conference championship in the modern nfl era. eagles whooped the commanders 55 to 23. so super bowl 59 is sunday, february 9th at the superdome in new orleans. it's a rematch of the big game just two years ago that was won by the chiefs, who now face the eagles for a second time in their bid for an unprecedented three peat. so, joe, i mean, i will say i don't think this is exactly the super bowl matchup most of america wanted. we just did see this game two years ago. that said, there are some compelling storylines. of course, chiefs looking to become the first team ever to win three in a row. mahomes already going for his

fourth. and then we have the eagles. saquon barkley the most exciting player in the league right now. you know they've got a strong defense too. yeah should be a good one then. >> saquon used to play for the giants richard he did okay richard. >> just to my. >> left right there. make the point that oh boy. so gifted a player. if he had played for the giants this year he wouldn't be playing now because they never would have been near the playoffs. he never would have had more than 1000 yards. so i don't feel any any discomfort. it's great to see a great player have a chance to show his. >> whatever. it's nice. >> richard play stop. >> you don't mean. >> any richard doesn't mean. >> any of. >> that whatsoever. let's bring in right now. the host of pablo finds out on meadowlark media and msnbc contributor pablo torre. first of all, i think we can all agree washington has a great future with jayden daniels, a great future. things like that happen. you know, first time to the big dance and certainly the championship game. but you know, i want to say something that that i mean, i don't want to say but i'm going

to have to say it. i know you're going to agree with me here. you know, nick saban would say, you know, there's blocking, there's tackling, but there's also just knowing how to win. that is a talent in and of itself. bear bryant used to say about pat trammell, his favorite quarterback. he said he couldn't run, he couldn't throw. but if you needed six yards for a first down, he'd get you seven. they're just those type of players. and there's a reason why. today, we talk about joe montana as being one of the greats of all time, and not jim kelly, because in those moments where you've got to make the last drive to win the game, joe montana always did it. jim kelly, god bless him, i loved him. he didn't at that level. and of course, i love josh allen. everything about that guy, he is buffalo, but he is not. it hurts me to say he is not patrick mahomes. >> no, he is salieri. i said

this to you on friday. f murray abraham is going to be on your show later today. it happens to be i look this up cosmically mozart's birthday today. i don't know if you're having my reason, but i say that because patrick mahomes is a prodigy. okay? no one has had a start to his career like this guy in professional football and at a certain point, a prodigy can become a super villain. and the question is whether you feel like salieri or whether you feel like claire mccaskill at this point. because, joe, what you're talking about knowing how to win the chiefs, it's beyond, i think, an intuitive feel. it is something it's something deeper and darker. we just haven't seen a team truly squeeze the randomness out of the most random sport that america loves and turn it into order. and if you're the bills, if you're whether you're the ghost of jim

kelly or whether you're the family of dalton kincaid, that tight end who dropped that ball on fourth down, that was so, so close to making that potentially a tie game. you throw your hands up and you're like, i think. i think we're just we've been banished to the dustbin of history. that's how it feels to be anybody else but the chiefs right now. >> pablo. it's just a remarkable winning streak in one score games. the chiefs have. they even lost the turnover battle yesterday but still overcame that. but let's give credit here i mean look mahomes stats aren't flashy. he did just enough. that's what he does. let's give credit to the chiefs defense and the steve spagnuolo the defensive coordinator who knows exactly when to send blitzes and this overwhelming pressure. and they also stopped josh allen on short yardage repeatedly. now we saw the one we talked about the officiating earlier. that was i we i think we can agree a bad call. but beyond that play they really negated allen's running for the most part. that's why they won the game. the defense. >> oh this play here right. so what happens on this play. they

do a corner blitz. you hadn't seen that. so steve spagnuolo who is the defensive architect of the chiefs on the play that mattered the most. again knowing how to win he sends a cornerback that discombobulates josh allen into making a decision that is almost bailed out but is a in general a terrible one. and when it comes to mahomes also in terms of just like the surprise element, the reason i say it's deeper and darker than than just like, wow, they're really good. patrick mahomes there was a designed run in which he scored a touchdown, and patrick mahomes at one point had dislocated his knee on a designed run. 2019 he just doesn't do it anymore. they break it out to break your back. and it's just it's just like, what do you do? what do you do when they still have that? when they still can do that same. >> pablo, it's sam stein. look, let's look forward now. right? we have the iran-iraq war of the super bowl here. chiefs versus eagles. who who do we root for? but i will say this.

>> that was a dark parallel. >> the eagles the eagles do the tush push. we just talked about the chiefs ability to stop josh allen. yes the eagles do the tush push better than anybody. and we just saw that where the commanders had to jump over offsides like four times in a row to try to stop it. are we looking at a trench warfare type super bowl. what are your expectations for this game. >> yeah, there's a think piece in that eagles commanders game that sam just referenced. at one point the referee came on and said, if this behavior continues, referring to how the commanders were trying to leap the line to stop desperately the tush push at any at any cost, he said, i'm going to award the eagles the touchdown automatically. he called it a quote unquote, palpably unfair act, which is a thing i had never heard before in a football game. it's a rule. so if you're asking, is this game the super bowl going to be a lot of just this stuff messes in the trenches. the eagles would love that. so what the eagles did was they had six rushing touchdowns

on the ground. but it was the tush push. again that was the thing that feels unstoppable. and now there's this debate do you outlaw it. is it actually too unstoppable. and to me as ugly as it is, it's telling that only the eagles do it that well. typically you got to have some copycats to make this a thing where you got to ban it. they just have mastered this play. that could be the one thing the one saving grace against, again, the unbeatable kansas city chiefs, the unstoppable play versus the. >> well, the chiefs, the actually the chiefs showed you why it doesn't need to be banned because some people know how to stop it. it's remarkable how many times they did stop josh allen. yeah. by the way, we talk about mahomes being the greatest. but i just want to really quickly pablo i mean andy reid and just just he's just such an offensive genius steve spagnuolo a defensive genius. have we ever had two coaches lined up like that that are that

good with a quarterback that is that good? because we could talk about mahomes, but mahomes isn't winning these super bowls without steve spagnuolo's defense or with andy reid's without andy reid's system. is this the best combination we've ever seen? >> it feels like it like the patriots again, all due respect to john lamar at the table here. but andy reid just to keep in mind like if andy reid wins the super bowl there's an argument this guy really should be in the conversation for. when you talk about the greatest coaches of all time. i mean, and also, by the way, andy reid was formerly again himself famously, eagles coach couldn't win the big one. so when it comes to just the narratives we spin, andy reid has a chance to completely change that first sentence of his obituary and have a very different introduction when he gets inducted, inevitably into the hall of fame. it's a remarkable thing when you have a perfect coach and a perfect quarterback. it's the dream. and also, you know, the nightmare. >> and arguably he was the

eagles greatest coach ever. and now of course, the chiefs greatest coach ever mika, the australian open a lot of drama at the at the open. and senator wins just he's he's tearing it up right now. >> top seeded jannik sinner is the australian open champion for a second consecutive time, defending his title in a straight set win over number two seed alexander zverev yesterday. on the women's side, american madison keys broke through on saturday for her first grand slam title. keys upset number one irina sabalenka in three sets, earning the major and a number seven world ranking host of pablo torres finds out on meadowlark media. pablo, thank you so much. we'll see you again soon. >> thank you, mika, as always, for your indulgence. >> yes. of course. very polite to each other today. all right. still ahead, we'll speak to two former federal prosecutors who

convicted january 6th. rioters. we're going to get their reaction to president trump's blanket pardon that included violent offenders. also ahead, academy award winning actor f murray abraham will be live in studio to talk about his off-broadway play, beckett briefs. morning joe will be briefs. morning joe will be right ♪♪ no. ♪♪ -no. -nuh-uh. ♪♪ yeah. oh. yes. ♪♪ oh yeah. yes. isn't this great? yeeaahhhh!! ♪♪ yeah, i could do a cartwheel in here. oh hey! would you like to join us? no. we would love to join you. ♪♪ days. >> four more years of that. it's

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soviet forces liberated the nazi concentration camps auschwitz and birkenau. this morning, the memorial and museum on the site are commemorating international holocaust remembrance day, with solemn ceremonies. experts believe this will be the last major milestone anniversary, with many survivors present, and advocates are racing to record their testimonies. nbc news correspondent jesse kirsch joins us live from auschwitz in southern poland this morning. good morning jesse. >> mika. good morning. the tributes here are already beginning to commemorate what happened 80 years. ago today. >> when soviet troops arrived here at auschwitz, they liberated roughly 7000 prisoners from a nazi extermination camp complex. and in the process, they helped uncover one of the worst atrocities ever committed by and against humankind. we

want to warn you. the images you're about to see are disturbing. their numbers are dwindling, but they're still here. and that is an act of defiance. these are the survivors of auschwitz, the rare few to make it out of the largest nazi extermination camp where more than 1 million people were murdered, most of them for one reason only. they were jews. eva umlauf was one of the youngest to escape death. joined by her son erik, she tells us she does not remember anything from auschwitz, but she's marked for life. >> a 26,959. >> can you ever forget that number? >> no. >> she was tattooed at less than two years old. >> you are just a number. but this number is not only on the skin. this is deeper.

>> she's among dozens of holocaust survivors and world leaders gathering at the former nazi camp in southern poland today, marking 80 years since the camp's liberation. poles, gay men, the roma and soviet pows were also murdered here. but above all, the nazis and their collaborators systematically persecuted europe's jewish communities. they murdered roughly 6 million jews, a staggering statistic which more than half of american adults do not know, according to a new survey. is your job here getting harder to get this message out now? >> this job is getting harder because of the change of the generations and young people today. their grandparents were born after the war, holocaust, second world war, auschwitz for those people starts becoming a historical topic that they meet in a historical textbook. but it's no longer part of their family background. >> this was the infamous front gate of auschwitz, with a sign reading work sets you free. but

the reality is the overwhelming majority of people deported to auschwitz did not survive long enough to learn that was a lie. the trains pulled in, families were ripped apart as the nazis selected a relative few for slave labor and human experiments. the overwhelming majority, including children, the disabled and the elderly, were immediately sent to the gas chambers, their murdered remains burned to destroy the evidence, but the nazis could not hide their crimes. there are piles of shoes, eyeglasses, suitcases, and the testimony of survivors. what do young people need to know about what happened to you and millions like yourself? >> that they have to know that is true. >> it's estimated only around 1000 auschwitz survivors are

still living. and so the museum here is planning for a future where their testimonies can only be seen and heard through recordings. the museum tells us they are working on an art gallery featuring the works of survivors and prisoners to convey what people ask survivors about their emotions, how it felt to be here, and just one more note of everything we were able to show here. one thing we cannot show out of respect for the victims of the holocaust are the piles of human hair that they have here, and the textiles that were made from human hair. all of this evidence of what happens when you dehumanize an entire ethnicity, an entire religion. mika. >> nbc news correspondent jesse kirsch, live from auschwitz in southern poland. thank you. and, joe, you and i have both been there and we've both seen what jesse was just talking about. and it really, when you're there, you understand the importance of seeing that, processing it and remembering it. and his reporting on the

knowledge gap on this is what what i'm struck by. >> well. >> i'm struck by by by so much today. you know, i've always said that standing over the cliffs at normandy late in the evening, while it's still light and the sun's going down on june the 6th, the probably the most moving thing i've seen. and i said that until i went to auschwitz, moving for completely different reasons. but but talking to holocaust survivors and talking to people that that gave me a tour after we did our report from there. you know what? and jesse's and jesse's report from auschwitz, he he talked about all the groups and he said, including children. richard, what was so horrifying

to me was going to auschwitz. and it was really the first time i realized talking to holocaust survivors and talking to guides around, around that concentration camp, that it wasn't just including children. the nazis specifically targeted children. when you looked at the shoes, so many of them were the shoes of babies, of toddlers, of young children. and it was deliberate. they would deliberately find and gas young children to try to exterminate the entire race. and it was it was it i think i, i thought i'd have a better understanding going to auschwitz, touring it of how something like this could happen. i must say, the closer you get to it, the more unrecognizable the crimes are

from any humanity. and i spent walking through their prisons looking at the nazi guards, looking and wondering in these pictures how, how could humanity ever become so depraved. >> now the scale of it, the deliberateness of it, it was monstrous. and you're right, it's almost hard to fathom, joe. and, you know, several of us have been to auschwitz, and it's one of those things that you can never forget it. i just say again, linking it to what you and mika were saying, the fact that we're essentially entering now, the period of history where there will be no people who will be able to give us direct accounts of what happened. so it talks again. it's almost cycling back to our earlier conversation about history. one of the things i've learned is you can't assume anything about history, that it's learned. it's taught. and we have to be we have to be intentional about it, whether

it's our own history as a country or in this case, about collective human experience in order to make never again not just a slogan, but something that that's real and we just can't assume assume anything is transmitted anymore, much less transmitted accurately. so again, my big takeaway from this is, is intentionality. it's got to be a collective effort to make sure that none of this is ever forgotten or in any way characterized in ways that aren't true. >> well, and it goes back to teaching history, teaching our history, teaching world history, not just in k through 12 grades, but yes, at at community colleges, at universities, at the most elite colleges in america, where where too often humanity is history just not taught anymore. let's bring in right now joining the conversation, the host of all in

with chris hayes, chris hayes. he is the author of the new book titled the siren's call how attention became the world's most endangered resource. and actually, chris, this is this is very connected because we're talking about the importance of a new generation. stop. you know, when i when i was growing up, most of my reading was sports illustrated. but, you know, i still would read the, you know, books like the abandonment of the jews in college. i'd read the rise and fall shier's the rise and fall of the third reich. and i think we all did. we did enough reading to understand the horrors in a very real way. you have written a book. i think it's so extraordinarily important right now about how right now, our neurological structures are evolutionary characteristics, the things that stamp us through evolution are social impulses are being preyed

upon by algorithms, and then twisting those social impulses, twisting those evolutionary instincts, twisting what it is that makes us human. i could not be a more timely book. could you tell us about it? >> yeah. >> well, thank. >> you. >> for that intro. >> yeah. >> siren's call. >> it's called the siren's call. >> and i think, look, attention. >> is. >> a. >> faculty we all have. >> and it's necessary for survival, right? i mean, like. >> literally it. >> evolves so that you can hear the predator rustling. >> in the bushes. and because we have. >> this. faculty for. >> what is. >> called compelled attention, right. someone walks in a room and shatters a glass, a gunshot goes off right before you. >> have a chance to have any consciousness. about whether you're paying attention. >> to it. yeah, your your attention is pulled. >> right. and because. >> we have that. >> faculty of involuntary attention, we now. >> have a world in which attention is, i would. >> say, the defining resource. >> of our age. the largest

corporations. working at levels of intense sophistication to extract that attention and. >> preying on. >> that faculty. we have for it to be compelled. and so we get. >> more of more. >> of the world. our entire lives feels like a casino floor and times square, and. >> the. buzzing of. >> the phone. >> when your phone. >> buzzes, that haptic feedback. that's a very. >> smart engineer. >> who came up with the idea that if you have that feedback, you're going to have to pay attention. >> to the. >> notification whether you want to or not, because it's actually talking to something deep in your wiring. and that is our experience of life. >> i mean, it's the phone that buzzes at us. it's the social media account that notifies us, oh, who's trying to reach me or what am i missing? and it seems like some politicians have really taken advantage of this. ezra klein of the times writes this week, the donald trump best of all, he understands that's his weapon. that is the greatest insight. >> that donald trump had was i think it came from a deep place. like, i don't think you couldn't i don't think donald trump sat around and theorized this.

right. it's just totally tactile for him. his instinct that attention is the most important thing. and one of the things that donald trump really gets is that he will take negative attention over no attention. this is the key thing. most politicians, when given the choice between negative attention and no attention, they're like, i don't want to make news. i don't want people to. i don't want to polarize people. i don't want people mad at me. trump will take negative attention over no attention every time. and what it leads to is this kind of attentional dominance, and you're seeing the effects of it. >> what have we learned, chris, about gaining attention? if people are tuning out, which is happening in a lot of this country, we've been talking about it again today. what seems to break through? how what are we? what are the methods, if you will, of gathering or garnering attention? >> it's a great question. i mean, i think part of what we're dealing with is because of how that faculty evolves in us, that it's easier to shortcut hack for getting attention tends to be negativity, outrageousness, and obnoxiousness. right? so we're

constantly dealing with this kind of what we call the troll dilemma, right? that in any setting, if you don't care about negative attention, the best way to get attention is to act outrageously. it's a much harder thing to get positive attention, and that that requires a lot more work. you know, it requires to go back to aristotle, like the craft and art of rhetoric, logos, ethos, pathos. but that's a much that's a tougher climb than the kind of trolling that we see from, you know, a lot of people prominently. >> i've also noticed that it's making money to grab attention. you have people with podcasts or with whatever these platforms are today that literally every day think of what kind of rage they can throw out there, right. and it's a business model. it's a business model. and it's taking in most i mean, a lot of young people especially. >> yes. and it's even a business model in politics. i mean, there's both, you know, the sort of world in which everything is content, right? that the.

>> shock. >> the shock, which, again, is a way of getting attention, the defining sort of social aspiration of the youngest generation is to be famous. right? like, we know this through polling, but even in politics, i mean, i remember when mccarthy was deposed, right? when they when they came after mccarthy, you had members of the republican caucus getting the will of house and saying, we are up here because people are trying to fundraise off of this stunt. like, the only reason we are here is that people are monetizing the attention on them, and they all saw it for what it was. of course, that's also true about the person at the head of the party, but they saw it for what it was in that moment, and their frustration was, we are trapped in something that we cannot escape from. >> it's so, so hard on the kids, and it's so interesting to note that a lot of the people behind these platforms, tech leaders, don't let their kids have phones for a long time in their lives telling you that they know the damaging effects of the phone.

>> they have become, i think, radicalized. and one of the things i think we're seeing, and i think you're going to see more and more of this, you're starting to see it is, you know, jonathan heights book, you know, about the anxious generation, which, of course, is a huge bestseller. you know, this book is sort of about what it's doing to all of us, not just kids, because i do think sometimes we think like. >> oh, no, i know. >> it's kid. it's like. >> well, no. >> no, it's. >> no. >> it's. >> all of us, every single person. >> and i think what you're starting to see is a really profound backlash brewing. and it's going to be enormous. the spring is getting pushed down and down. people's frustration with this attentional vortex we all live in, whether it's in politics, whether it's in our most intimate moments we want to enjoy, there is a rebellion against it brewing. >> joe. >> yeah, there really is. you know, and chris, mika and i were just talking last night and talking to several people who seem to be disconnecting. now. i'm a luddite, i try. my children laugh at me. i try to go to the flip phone, like every

week. that usually lasts through about tuesday or wednesday, but we've started to hear more people talking about getting off their smartphones, more leaving social media. i mean, and we're not just talking about x, we're talking about social media. they understand what it took us years to understand about the casinos. it's rigged. the casinos always win. the algorithms always try to enrage you, try to suck you in, try to take your life away from you. i had a guy that called me up, you know, a couple of months back when mike and i were having a lot of fun on social media. we thank god we aren't on, i'm not on social media. and he would call me, like every 15 minutes. and he was just like pulled down. and i was like, dude, get off social media. i get you keep you keep calling me every 15 minutes and you kept interrupting me. i've

got my four kids here for thanksgiving, and so i'm good. this is the best i've been. i've got four kids under my roof. this is the best i've been. get off of social media. and i think he is. i think more and more people are understanding. it's rigged. it's a casino. >> like. >> you said. >> and this is a really key point. we, the one of the tricky things. right. the sort of sort of quicksand of, of social media is social attention. right. we you go up through your life and all the social attention you get is from people you have actual relationships with. you don't get social attention from strangers in your formative years. you get it from caregivers, friends, siblings, people. so when you get social attention from strangers, which is what starts to come in on social media, you're conditioned to have it hit you like it's someone that you love, right? like it's someone you have a relationship with. right? >> so.

>> but it's not right. and that experience. >> can't make that difference. >> exactly. that experience used to be a small little group of people that had some measure of fame would experience this, and it would drive them crazy, right? this is like a trope, a cliche. now, that experience that joe that you're talking about, that's been democratized for everyone. so everyone for the first time really in human history, everyone can have the experience of social attention from strangers at scale that only used to exist for a tiny. and it is really, really at odds with our wiring about what we seek from relationships. >> and if we could, i know we have to close this conversation, but can you imagine the nightmare for parents? okay, they take away the phone. they don't want the kids to have the phone, but they have to do their schoolwork on their computer. and then all the things are coming up. it's constant. they're up all night. i mean, these fragile minds cannot make the differentiation that you're talking about here. and we're seeing the uptick in suicidal

ideation and other very, very negative behaviors because of how the kids are being conditioned. through these algorithms. you can make a direct connection. >> yes. and even when it's not having the acute harm that you're discussing, to joe's point about his friend, right. there's a deeper philosophical question of like, how do we want to live our lives, right? where do we want to put our attention that is primary to what it is to be human at any age? and so even if you are not in that category where you're suffering from the most acute versions, the deep question is still there. to joe. joe, to your point, like the thing you want to spend your time doing is be with your kids at thanksgiving, right? and yet there's this siren's call, right of something pulling your attention away from that and reorienting ourselves around the things we. >> want. >> is the key, right? >> so, so, chris, can i can i ask you what's then. yeah. how

do americans, how do people across the world get away with it? i'm fortunate that that a lot of people around me are very skeptical of carrying around smartphones and staring at them and, and obsessing over what people say, who they've never met, never will meet. the question is, though, what what is the bigger answer for all of us? what what does what conclusions do you draw? what do we what's the three step process? >> so i think look, i think there's at the most basic level for people forcing yourself every day to spend 20 to 30 minutes alone with your own thoughts. so that's just like the most basic, like, what's the thing i can do? the second level is rebuilding a digital world and an internet that is noncommercial. we have had that before. the noncommercial internet is what gave us wikipedia. it's what gave us the open web. that was the platform that incredibly created this,

this productivity boom. right now, our entire lives online are lived in commercial spaces. it's like living in a mall. you need to have public, noncommercial spaces in the internet. and the third, and this is where this is going to go, is regulation. i really, truly believe that we're going to start to see attempts to regulate whether that's capping screen time, whether that's age limits, whether that's other ways of saying that there's some public interest here in limiting or structuring people's relationship to this attentional vortex. >> chinese authorities would agree with you. >> yeah. >> the chinese authorities. >> want their kids don't see what our kids. >> see one time. >> one of the things that's key, right, about the tiktok ban and the intermediate scrutiny the court applied, is that the thing they said was because the ban was total and not content specific. it didn't trigger strict scrutiny. right. the highest level of review for first amendment infringement. and i do think there's the content question gets caught up

in this conversation. we need to separate that out from this attentional question. >> this book is very timely and important. the new book is entitled the siren's call how attention became the world's most endangered resource. chris hayes, thank you so much. we'll of course, be watching all in right here on msnbc and come back. i'd love to. i don't think this conversation is finished. coming up on morning joe, how the wildfires across los angeles have set off discussions about reviving the area's dominant and struggling industries of film and television production. also ahead, a look at this year's brand new 50 over 50 global list. it is out celebrating women around the world who are helping prove age is one of your best assets. morning, joe. we'll be right back. >> i. pfizer vaccine. you can

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with xfinity mobile. ross sorkin will talk about. mika, you alerted me to this fact. the cnbc headline from 6:48 a.m. dow futures tumbled 400 points. nasdaq futures lose 4% as nvidia leads

i stock route. it's something we'll be following of course 4% is significant. we'll see what happens though when the markets actually open up. but but mika a lot of a lot of news to cover this morning. >> yes. additionally, secretary of state marco rubio has ordered an immediate halt to most u.s. foreign aid, while a 90 day review of its efficiency and alignment with u.s. policy takes place. waivers were issued for military aid to israel and egypt, as well as for emergency food assistance. rubio's decision follows president trump's executive order pausing new foreign aid disbursements. richard, you've been looking into this and also following what's going on with the tech stocks, especially. what do you make of it and what does it really mean? do we know yet? >> we don't quite know. mika, it was a week ago today that one of president trump's initial executive orders was about foreign aid. and the language is

that there was an accusation or an allegation in it, that a lot of our foreign aid is inconsistent with american interests, and much of it is that is antithetical to our values. and what they did was put in place a 90 day freeze. and we're talking about such things as the pepfar program, which president george w bush instituted, which has saved, what, 25 million lives around the world over the last two decades. so, you know, exempted seems to be, you know, military aid to egypt, israel, ukraine. but all the nonmilitary aid to ukraine seems to be affected by it, the economic programs and so forth. a lot of the health programs around the world are affected. a lot of the development thing. and what's not clear to me is why this required a suspension. why couldn't the new administration say, look, we're going to review all of our before we may end certain things. we may not renew them. we may revise them. it's not clear to me why something so draconian was instituted. this will have consequences around the world, not just long term consequences in terms of

development, but i think it could have some real health consequences. and also, again, it raises questions about perceptions of the united states. so this this is one of the things we do. it's generous. we can afford it. it's a what is it. half. it's half of 1% of our budget. it's not it's not going to move the needle. so it's surprising to me that there's been such a heavy handed approach to it. >> yeah. it's a message abo firo senior republican senators are urging president trump to rethink his decision to strip security detail from some former advisors. chairman of the senate intelligence committee tom cotton and senator lindsey graham both spoke out after trump removed protection for three officials. former national security adviser john bolton, former secretary of state mike pompeo and former top state department official brian hook. the three were involved in an aggressive plan against iran that included carrying out the

drone strike that killed military commander qassem soleimani in 2020. though bolton was already out of the trump administration by the time the strike took place, iran has sought retaliation ever since. in an interview with fox news, senator cotton said he had reviewed current intelligence signaling threats remained real and encouraged trump to revisit the decision. senator graham backed him up in an interview with nbc news, saying he doesn't want to pull protection if there's a legitimate threat against people who served our ft and pushing back a bit. >> well, they're concerned not not just for those who are now exposed to possible assassination squads from iran. they're also concerned about how it impacts government people who

are serving in the government today. will they be afraid to take certain steps. >> sends a message. >> they may be exposed? yeah. they may be exposed when they get out of public service. and so, jonathan lemire, that is the real question. you know, a lot of debates over secret service protection being taken away from anthony fauci and others. the thing, though, that really sends a chill in the defense community and the intel community, though, are, of course, pompeo and bolton, but especially brian hook, which is interesting. i you know, i've been in meetings. i've i've been around tables with brian hook. i've never heard him criticize donald trump or the trump administration. and in fact, he was he's a pretty loyal soldier. his job was obviously protect us from the iranian threat. and so i think a lot of people, a lot of people

on the hill and a lot of people in the state department are shocked that brian hook, of all people, also getting his security detail taken away when the threat, as senator cotton said, is very real from iran. >> yeah, that's the most puzzling one. john bolton, the most obvious. bolton has been a very outspoken critic of donald trump. but even mike pompeo, of course, trump appointed him both as cia director and secretary of state in the first term. and the iran threat does remain real. let's remember that during this past campaign, the biden administration warned that iran was actively trying to potentially assassinate donald trump during that campaign. iran has denied that. we know there were other attempts on trump's life, but the threat does remain. the. and now that trump is returned to power, you know, there's even more scrutiny on the relationship with iran. so this is something where republican senators, certainly graham and cotton, there may be more today with the senate back in session this week in washington, may indeed speak out and say that this was ill

advised decision. this was trump putting personal feelings ahead of security issues. >> all right. coming up, president trump has fired 18 inspectors general. we're going to dig into the legal concerns this is now raising. and what the president is saying about the move. morning joe will be right back. >> i. >> want the fastest working glp1 for half the price. rowe now offers fda approved weight loss injections cheaper with results. you can see faster, lose 15% of your weight with a formula from eli lilly. see if you qualify at koco-tv. >> this one goes better with the walls. >> this is. >> so. >> much easier. >> than the home. >> improvement store. >> so which would you recommend? >> do you like brown? >> yeah, some things are just better at home. with empire's home floor advantage, you can compare samples in your own space. plus, i'll be here to help you with every step of the process. >> call or visit. >> empire today.com and get the home floor advantage. >> it really. >> is. >> better at home.

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>> if today. >> was not a crooked highway. if tonight was not. >> a crooked trail. >> if tomorrow wasn't. >> such a long. >> time. >> and lonesome would mean nothing to you at all. >> yes, and only if my own true. >> love was waiting. and if i could. >> only hear. >> her heart softly pounding. yes. and only if she was lying by me. and i'd lie. >> that was timothee chalamet, who took on dual roles as both host and musical guest on saturday night live. chalamet is nominated for an oscar for his portrayal of bob dylan in the biopic a complete unknown. it is

so good, and we're following some headlines out of hollywood this morning. we're about five weeks away from the academy awards, and oscars host conan o'brien says the show will go on. some have questioned whether the oscars should be canceled because of the l.a. fires, but organizers say they will transform the show in a way that unites us as a global film community and acknowledge those who fought so bravely against the wildfires. o'brien was also impacted by the blaze. he's still unable to live in his home and said he won't be back for a long time. meanwhile, the new york times writes even before the devastating wildfires impacted los angeles, hollywood was already struggling for months. film and television production in the region had fallen to a near record low, risking the livelihoods of many in the entertainment industry. they dealt with long shutdowns due to covid, followed by a

writers and actors strike. then the wildfires swept through, dealing yet another blow. many workers who have seen jobs dry up say they now face a choice keep hanging on in the hopes that things turn around or try something completely new. and renowned director steven spielberg is opening up about what inspired him to become a father. over the weekend, he revealed actress drew barrymore, who was six years old when she became the breakout star of e.t. the extra-terrestrial, left a huge impression on him, which ultimately changed his life. spielberg told an audience. up until that point, 8182, i was just making movies. that was my life. i was obsessed with telling stories, but making e.t. made me want to be a father for the first time. i never even thought about it until e.t. the oscar winning director also said he has probably watched e.t. more than any other movie he's

ever directed, because it's a film. he has now shown all of his seven kids and some of his six grandkids. that's nice. okay. remember e.t, are you too. >> young to remember? e.t. showed the kids e.t. a couple of years ago. they liked a couple. couple moments are a little scary, but they loved it. >> okay, up next, two former federal prosecutors who worked on cases involving the january 6th capitol attack will join us to weigh in on president trump's sweeping pardons and the impact this could have on the justice system. morning joe will be right back. >> buying a. >> car is kind of a big deal. there's like a million. >> options. >> and you. >> deserve something. >> you love. >> at cargurus, we get it. as the number. >> one most visited car shopping site, we. site, we. >> make on chewy, save 35% and shop all your favorite brands.

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more violence parting the people who went. >> into the capitol and beat up a police. officer violently. >> i think. >> was a mistake. because it seems to suggest. that's an okay thing to do. >> you know. >> biden pardoned half. >> his family. >> going out. >> the door. >> i think. >> most americans. >> if this continues to see. >> this as an abuse. >> of the pardon. >> power. >> that we'll. >> revisit the pardon. >> power of the president if this continues. >> but as to pardoning. >> violent people. who beat up cops, i think that's a mistake. >> that was republican senator lindsey graham of south carolina, a strong ally of the president, breaking with him on the pardons of violent january 6th rioters. joining us now, two

former federal prosecutors who worked on january 6th cases, jason manning. manning, manning and ashley akers. jason manning, since i messed up your name, i'll start with you. so first of all, you have some thoughts on on these pardons. what do you think the message is that they send, and what do you think the impact will be? >> i think the message. >> that they send. >> is a terrible. >> one, and i'd. >> call attention to what sergeant. >> gonell of the capitol police. >> an iraq. >> war veteran. >> who served bravely at the capitol and who was injured in such an atrocious way that he had had multiple surgeries to repair his injuries following january 6th. and he recently said that the pardons are a mockery and a desecration of the officers who fought to defend our democracy that day, a mockery and a desecration. and i worry about the message that's being sent that if you commit crimes in the president's name, if you commit crimes to further the president's agenda, those crimes are okay. and what

message that sends to police officers and how we'll be able to have a justice system if we don't have police officers who believe that they'll be supported. >> ashley akers, to you, tell us about the cases that you worked on and your thoughts on the pardons. >> i worked on several numerous dozens of cases involving incredibly violent offenders who made it their purpose and goal when they came to unite, when they came to the united states capitol on january 6th to stop the peaceful transition of power. these people wore military gear. they had bulletproof vests on. they had helmets on. as you see in the video footage here. they brought makeshift weapons, they brought real weapons. and for hours and hours, they made it their goal to get into the united states capitol and to stop the peaceful transition of power. and like jason just said, no message could be more clear and could be more dangerous from the president of the united states

condoning this violence not only against the capitol building, but also the capitol police and also against our democracy. >> so, jason, it's not just some have said to me that this is president trump pardoning actions in the past, but perhaps setting up a permission structure for those involved, including members of the proud boys, oath keepers and the like to act out violently in the future knowing that he has their back. how much of a concern is that for you and fellow prosecutors? >> that's a tremendous concern, and i'm glad you raised the question. i was really moved by the remarks earlier on this program by richard haass about international holocaust remembrance day, a day that we remember the victims of nazi atrocities. and when we think about the lessons of that history, think about tim snyder's 20 lessons from the 20th century. and he talks about be wary of paramilitaries. if you observed what happened on january 6th and you saw organized armed groups like the proud boys and the oath keepers,

who organized to commit violence, consequential acts of violence on january 6th, in the case of the oath keepers, who brought a tremendous amount of weapons to the d.c. metro area that day, everybody coming out of january 6th would have been wary about the impacts of paramilitary groups in our society. and now with the message that that these partizans sent to these groups, and the way these groups are emboldened by these pardons, we have to be doubly wary about what they say to what they can do to our society. >> so, ashley, to you now, just what are your thoughts about this current department of justice? you know, pam bondi, the attorney general nominee, we have kash patel, who's donald trump's pick to be fbi director. as you see this institution. you know, one, of course, you've held in high regard in the past. do you feel like it will still conduct the people's business in a fair and legal way? >> i think that historically, the department of justice is a very prestigious, well thought of institution in our

government, and the people who work there are always held to the highest standards, and that's for a reason, something that i think is especially troubling that we've seen this week is a department of justice that has taken a turn. and in fact, you may have seen recent reporting that one of the judges of the court issued an order that changed the supervised release conditions of some of the seditious conspiracists who were the proud boys and the oath keepers. and the judge indicated that those people are not allowed to come to washington, dc or the united states capitol without his express permission. the response from the justice department was appalling. the new u.s. attorney at the in washington, d.c, filed a motion advocating on behalf of the proud boys and the oath keepers, asking the judge to reverse that decision. so this department has taken a literal 180 turn. we used to be in support of law

enforcement, in support of democracy, in support of the peaceful transition of power. and what we've seen so far is a justice department that is taking the side of these violent rioters whose goal it was to stop the democratic process. and it's scary. >> former federal prosecutor jason manning and ashley akers, thank you both very much for coming on the show this morning. thank you. and now we turn to some troubling health news this morning. as covid cases continue to trend downward, the number of flu cases across the country is rising, and there is growing concern that some hospitals may not be able to handle the influx of patients. nbc news correspondent marissa parra has the latest. >> a rising number of americans are feeling. >> the fury of the flu. >> me and my. husband have had a 101 fever for three days. >> cdc data this. month reports over. 6600 flu deaths. >> in 160,000 hospitalizations.

>> while the flu is. >> surging, covid. >> cases are down. here's why. >> doctors say covid strains. >> for the most part, have become less severe over time. and this year, covid peaked, most recently in august. >> covid is milder this year. >> with about half. >> the rate of hospitalizations. >> now than exactly a year ago. >> but the flu always. >> peaks in the winter, spreading more easily this season with a combination of lower flu vaccination rates, record travel. >> a bitter. >> cold winter season. driving people indoors together with little competition this season from covid 19. it was just this week that the. >> cia made. >> a big switch on their previous covid 19 assessment, and just days after president trump's cia chief took his post, the agency now saying they believe with low confidence that the pandemic's origin was more likely a chinese lab leak. and even though covid hospitalizations are down from this time last year, doctors are still feeling the strain. >> is there a valid. >> concern about the possibility. >> of. >> hospitals reaching. >> capacity at this rate.

>> there is always a concern about. >> hospitals reaching capacity. >> especially when. >> flu cases are just overwhelming. >> so even those 1 to 10 extra hospitalizations from the flu can. >> literally break a hospital's capacity. all the more reason to protect yourself today. >> and it's not too late for protections like getting the flu vaccine that paired with washing hands more frequently and wiping down surfaces, can all help drive down the strain and keep your guard up. >> nbc's marissa parra with that report. and coming up on morning joe, the latest from israel. as four more hostages are released by hamas as part of the cease fire deal that went into effect earlier this month, nbc's raf sanchez joins us from tel aviv. sanchez joins us from tel aviv. morning joe, back in a some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking allstate first. okay, let's get going. can everybody see that? like you know to check your desktop first, before sharing your screen. ahh...uhhh. no, that, uhhh. so check allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds.

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due to cold and fear, but we had a lot of surprise guests like melania. that was nice. melania showed up to my inauguration dressed like, frankly, kung lao from mortal kombat. and you know, i had to put my nerd herd in the front row. oligarchs before oligarchs also have to ensure that all of my cabinet positions are filled. we're filling my cabinet with some of the best people. they're all very good, except for most of them. it's been a great week. i basically hit all my campaign promises except for the one

people cared about. price of eggs all time high. who would have thought it'd be easier to get a ceasefire in gaza than bring down the price of eggs? i might have to take the l on that one. you know, we're looking into some fabulous alternative egg options, such as seagull or perhaps cadbury. >> good morning and welcome to morning joe. it is monday, january 27th. we have so much to get to, including the hundreds of ice arrests across the country this weekend as the trump administration starts carrying out the president's promise to deport millions of undocumented migrants. it comes as president trump had a brief tariff standoff with the president of colombia. we'll explain what happened there. meanwhile, president trump on friday fired nearly 20 inspectors general from the federal government will look at whether the move was legal. also, almost all foreign aid from the united states is on

hold this morning. a pause, we'll dig into that executive order. and when the assistance could start up again. also ahead, we'll have the latest from israel following the release of four more hostages over the weekend. and we'll also look ahead to another busy week on capitol hill as more of trump's cabinet picks will have their confirmation hearings. >> let's just look at the front pages of the papers. the new york. times talking about the two big stories, both about israel, one the attacks yesterday and the very fragile peace treaty, if you can call it that, actually cease fire. and also the, the vague but chilling statement that gaza should be, quote, cleaned out also down below. great story on how kobe's image all over la with art on the wall. but here the wall

street. wall street. yeah, okay, we dueling wall street journal. hold that up mika. so richard, look at the headlines here. obviously proposals to vacate gaza stuns all sides, scrambles diplomacy. i would be shocked if we go there i think it's just one of those things. it grabs headlines. but i find it very hard to believe that saudi arabia, the uae, jordan, egypt, all of our sunni arab allies in the middle east would go along with a cleaning out of where palestinian homeland one day should be. >> well, joe, nobody in the arab world, beginning with the palestinians, but also the two countries that established peace with israel first, egypt and jordan, both of them oppose this vehemently. jordan's already 60

to 70% palestinian. they would worry that any transfer of palestinian populations would destabilize the monarchy in the country. egypt lives on a knife edge because of its enormous population and its its poverty. this just wouldn't be acceptable. no palestinian would want it. the people who are celebrating here are the far right in israel. these ministers who have been part of bibi netanyahu's government for most of the last few years, and the settler movement, because this is what they want. they want to see what's known as transfer, the pushing out of palestinians and therefore making gaza an even more important to them. the west bank, what they call judea and samaria, open to israeli settlement, to ultimately annexation. so i think this is a nonstarter. joe, what's interesting to me is where did this come from? what does it tell us about the policy process of the new president? that an idea that is so, i think, so much a nonstarter and so potentially inconsistent with stability and peace in the region. where did this come from? why was it being surfaced

the way it was? and that's what i'd like to hear a little bit more about. >> it's interesting because i was talking to somebody who ultimately ended up becoming a member of the cabinet, and he says a lot of the concepts are opening bids don't really know where this stands in that. but let's go live to tel aviv. we'll switch up our rundown this morning. nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez. raf, what more do we know about this? >> well, mika, this has been a dramatic and emotional weekend here in the middle east, starting with those comments by president trump made to reporters on air force one, suggesting that 1.5 million palestinians in gaza, that is, three quarters of the population, be moved so that the strip can be, in his words, cleaned out, as you said, suggesting that they go to egypt and jordan. immediate and very firm rejections by those two arab allies of the united states, saying, as far as they are concerned, that is a total nonstarter. now, over the weekend here, those four young

israeli soldiers released from hamas captivity after 477 days, very emotional scenes. as they were freed from gaza, they were reunited with their families. we actually sat with the family of one of those soldiers, larry alba. she's second from the left in that photo, and we watched with them in real time. this sort of surreal hamas spectacle. those four soldiers marched on stage in costume uniforms in front of the cameras and then released into the hands of the red cross and handed back over to israeli forces. now that all played out very much in public, what was going on in private over the weekend were absolute crisis talks, because this cease fire was under real strain. hamas had not released an israeli civilian called arbel. ehud, who israel says under the terms of the agreement, should have been released ahead of those four soldiers. and in response, israel refusing to allow palestinian civilians to

return to their homes in northern gaza. but a deal was brokered. and this week we are expecting not just the three hostages who were scheduled to come out, but six hostages in total. so arbel yahud will come out on thursday along with two others, and then those three additional hostages will come out on saturday. and mika, that is raising hopes that we may finally see american hostage keith segal, a 65 year old grandfather released from hamas captivity sometime this week. you might remember he was taken along with his wife. his wife was released in the first stage of the deal, and he has been in gaza for 15 months now, as well as those two hostage releases, we are expecting president trump's envoy to the middle east, steve witkoff, to make his first trip here since the trump administration took office. this is a man who was deeply involved in brokering that deal in qatar,

and witkoff is saying that he is not only going to visit israel, do the meetings with prime minister netanyahu that you would expect, but that he is also thinking about going into gaza himself, a cease fire, obviously on. but this is still a dangerous part of the world. so that would be a first for a senior u.s. official. >> all right. nbc's raf sanchez, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate your reporting. and, mika, you brought up before about talking to a cabinet member in the trump administration. we've also seen jamie dimon and other people just talk when they talk about, for instance, tariffs. most see it as an opening bid. and there have been many people around donald trump that say it's the opening bid. in fact, donald trump reportedly told the senate, senate republicans last weekend that he doesn't want to quote, tax people. he doesn't

want to put the tariffs on people. but he will if he has to. but he also suggested to the senate republicans that these are opening bids. we see that in the middle east. of course, it's a nonstarter in the middle east. if you if you look at saudi arabia and all the things that they want to do by extending the abraham accords, that cannot be done if gaza is, quote, cleared out, they know that. but but also fascinating what happened overnight regarding tariffs and colombia. again we saw the opening bid and then we saw the negotiations there. and it's fascinating. we're i think we're going to see this with a lot more countries. the use of tariffs as a, quote, opening bid in negotiations. >> and of course tariffs can go both ways. the trump administration says colombia has agreed to accept deportation flights after a standoff over

tariffs. the saga started yesterday when colombia denied entry to two united states military planes carrying about 80 colombian migrants each. colombia's president accused the u.s. of treating the colombian migrants like criminals and called for dignified treatment before his country would receive them. in response, president trump announced sweeping retaliatory measures against colombia, including 25% tariffs and visa sanctions. the colombian president then responded by announcing 25% tariffs on american imports. he also threatened to stop exporting goods to the united states. but late last night, the trump administration backed off the trade threats after colombia said it would accept deportation flights. meanwhile, federal agents ramped up immigration enforcement operations over the

weekend. ice reported 956 arrests made in total yesterday. that is the largest number of arrests in a single day by the trump administration to date. the operations targeted several cities across the country, with federal law enforcement agencies and multiple communities posting about assisting with immigration efforts. in denver, the dea says it targeted members of the venezuelan gang in chicago. ice carried out what it called enhanced targeted operations. trump border czar tom homan was there to oversee the effort. since president trump was inaugurated last monday, ice has made at least 2681 arrests. let's go live to chicago and nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez. gabe, you spoke to trump border czar tom homan yesterday as the immigration roundups were taking place. what did he tell you?

>> hi there mika. good morning. well, no surprise, he said it was a successful operation. and over the last few days, we have seen this ramped up enforcement effort, really across the country, but also the trump administration really wanting to publicize this, i guess no surprise. before, during the biden administration, we did not get a daily tally of how many arrests ice had made nationwide. now we are getting it each day. as you mentioned, nearly 1000 arrests yesterday and more than 2600 since president trump took office. now chicago, of course, this is the city where tom homan had previously said would be ground zero for mass deportations. it's again no surprise that he's here just several days after president trump taking office. and at one point, he got into a feud with local officials who may have threatened to perhaps impede ice agents, although they've since backed off of that and said that they don't plan to get in the way of any ice agents. but tom homan said has repeatedly said that he would prosecute local

officials here or anywhere else if they got in the way. in chicago was a sanctuary city. is that what i said? a target rich environment? we know a lot of illegal aliens live here. we know we don't have access to cook county jail, one of the biggest jails in the country. and i'll say it again, if you if the politicians, the mayor and the governor would just simply work with us and let us in that jail to arrest the bad guy in the jail is safer for the officer or safer for the animals and safer for the community. i don't get it. >> do you. >> plan, under certain circumstances to go into churches and schools at some point? oh, never say never. if there's a national security. >> threat that. >> we know. >> is in a certain. >> place on a college campus, well, we're going to get that national security threat. if he's a significant public safety threat, that that's what we used to call a central location. no, we're going to force a law. and that policy is different from the biden administration. mika. of course, ice now allowing its

agents to go into those sensitive locations like schools and churches. but, mika, i should also point out the trump administration has sometimes made it seem as if they're beginning this deportation process from scratch. but we should point out that during the biden administration, especially during the last year, they had ramped up deportations and ice made arrests nationwide. really, throughout the biden administration, we went on one of their operations just last month. the difference is now the numbers in the last several days, at least in the latter half of last week, do seem significantly higher. it will be interesting to see if this is sustained in the coming weeks and months ahead. tom homan says that he needs more funding from congress in order to keep ramping up these these mass deportation plans. mika. >> good morning. gabe. it's jonathan. good context there. we know that the biden numbers also the biden administration also did some of these raids. talk to us a little bit more about just the jump here from the trump team. but also what do they hope

to do next. because that that's always been the tension point. they said the first wave would be criminals, people who committed violent crimes. but we've also heard rhetoric from those in the administration, including stephen miller, who was the architect of this whole program. that suggests that eventually the targets will be people whose only crimes were to enter the united states illegally. >> yeah. look, if you talk to tom homan, he says that no one should be in this country illegally. and i asked him yesterday, were there collateral arrests yesterday? and what collateral arrest means is essentially when these ice agents go on one of these operations and they are searching for an immigrant with a criminal record in the process of that, they may run across other immigrants who don't have violent records. during previous administrations, the biden administration, specifically. collateral arrests, didn't happen quite so often. but now the trump administration is saying that there will be collateral arrests. the question is just how many? and jonathan, as you point out, what about the

detention beds? is there enough detention space in this country? tom homan has repeatedly said there isn't. right now there are about 40,000 beds or so nationwide. he wants to have more than 100,000. of course, that requires a lot of funding from congress. ice is already facing a $230 million budget shortfall. but what is different here is not only the increased rhetoric, the increased publicizing of these numbers, but also with tom homan said to me is the biggest difference is now the partnership from other federal agencies as part of the operation yesterday, it wasn't just ice. there was, as you mentioned, the dea, atf, u.s. marshals office is involved in some of these, and also the dod now using those military aircraft to deport some of these immigrants around the world. >> coming up, how president trump is testing the boundaries of his authority. peter baker joins us with his analysis in the new york times. morning joe the new york times. morning joe is back in a moment.

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>> only pay for what you need. liberty. >> liberty. >> liberty, liberty. >> here you go. >> is there any way to get a better. >> price on this? >> have you checked single care? >> before i pick up my prescription? i always check the single care price. single care price. >> it's quick, easy, and totally shipstation lets you keep up with the growth of your business. you can sync inventory and manage returns across all your sales channels. so you ship the right products, to the right customers. ♪♪ head to shipstation.com to start your free trial. >> hey, welcome back to morning joe. beautiful shot of the capital. you know, since john meacham's not here this morning, i have to i have to reach back and get get. well, this isn't so abstract of a historical reference, but today, in 1838,

abraham lincoln delivered an address to the young men's lyceum, a debating society in springfield. it was in the wake of a growing mob mob violence, including the killing of abolitionists by pro-slavery mobsters. and i was reading on heather cox richardson's newsletter yesterday the entire speech, because we've heard we heard parts of the speech. but i didn't realize that lincoln was only 28 when he did the lyceum speech. and it was on defending the political institutions of america. and in that speech, lincoln said this at what point shall we expect the approach of danger? by what means shall we fortify against it? shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? never. all the armies of europe, asia and africa, combined with all the treasure of earth, our own,

accepted in their military chest with a bonaparte for a commander could not by force take a drink from the ohio. or make a track on the blue ridge in a trial of a thousand years. i've always loved that line. in a trial of a thousand years. at what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? i answer if it ever reaches us, it must bring up amongst us. we cannot come from abroad. if destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. as a nation of freemen, we must live through all time or die by suicide. and you know, richard, again, just just so timely. when we hear people talking about civil war, the movie's out, talking about civil war. you have an america that's divided in two camps politically, and i must say politically, because i

know a lot of people who voted for both candidates, and i know you do as well. and we seem to manage away from social media or away from cable news or these other places in business settings and social settings. that does happen. but there is there is more of a division over the last ten, 15 years, i think in large part because of the media ecosystem that we live in. so lincoln's words today, on the anniversary of his speech on january 27th, 1838, ring true. we must stand together. he also, of course, later would say a house divided against itself cannot stand. >> now the line of destruction be our lot. the real threat to the integrity of this country, to the fabric of america, is not going to come from abroad. from now. you'd say the china's, the russia's, the north korea's or anybody else. it's from within. and all the trends are with political scientist joe called

sorting s o r t i n g. you know that red america is getting more red. blue america is getting more blue. and there's less and less interaction between the two. it's one of the reasons that people like me are so intent on bringing back things like greater national or public service to bring americans together who are living in these ideological and informational silos. the reason that people like me are so intent on getting civics in our classrooms to remind americans about what, what, what the ideas were that that led to the formation of this, this country. but lincoln's words, you know, they echo powerfully. they resonate powerfully today. >> they really do. i mean, we i totally agree with you, richard. we need we need to strengthen our institutions, respect and strengthen our institutions. we, of course, need to respect the rule of law. because as people always told me on the campaign trail and reminded me, we are not a government of men. we are a government of laws that have to be respected. and finally, to

richard's point, we need a well-informed electorate. as as i think, jefferson said. and so i agree. i think, you know, we have all these requirements in school. i we really need to teach history. every school needs to teach history. some of the best schools in america don't require their students to even scratch the surface of american history, world history. so civics. yes, i also man, i know it's really unpopular, but wouldn't it be something if after high school, >> yes. >> we looked at a year of national service. 100% something that would actually bring americans together, bring young americans together to understand, to build that community for the strength of america and understand that we have so much more in common than we don't. so we'll see. but

anyway, thanks to heather cox richardson, she she just always not you know, i don't want john meacham to get jealous, but she, she just she she has great, great insights, great historical insights. and this certainly was timely. >> coming up, a look at what's driving the day on wall street. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin previews the week ahead, including a looming decision on interest rates by the federal reserve. morning joe is back in a moment. >> but on a van loaded with weapons, packed up and ready to weapons, packed up and ready to go. heard of some ever feel like a spectator in your own life with chronic migraine? 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. in a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner. so why wait? talk to your doctor. botox® effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms.

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speak truth to power? right now, you've got an administration. you've got a president ready, willing and able to take legal action against people doing their jobs. >> i think. >> in 2025, politically engaged people can find the strength to make their voices. >> heard and. >> try to help create a climate of opinion that. >> enables these institutions, these people who run these institutions, to do the right thing. >> well, jon meacham, you have certainly my light tonight. >> msnbc premium gives you early access and ad free listening to rachel maddow, his chart topping series, msnbc original podcasts, exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows. now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> it's time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. the central intelligence agency is now saying covid 19 was likely leaked from a chinese lab before it became a global pandemic.

that's according to a statement the agency released on saturday, pointing the finger at china but also acknowledging the cia has, quote, low confidence in its own conclusion, a source tells nbc news the review was ordered and completed in the final weeks of the biden administration, and then was declassified by the trump administration. this seems still a little. yeah, yeah, a little fuzzy, joe. >> well. >> well. >> well, well, well, it sounds a little fuzzy because it still is a little fuzzy. sam stein correct. so the cia, during the biden administration was, was kept going back and forth there. they again, they have quote, low confidence in this, but they also had a low confidence in coming out and saying that it that it happened some other way. so bill burns, the cia director,

as the new york times reported that as they got near the end of biden's administration, he said, i don't know if bill burns ever said, dude, but he probably if he lived in northwest florida, he would have. he basically said, dude, dude, like pick. >> a side. >> like the cia needs an official side. the evidence is not overwhelmingly compelling on either side, but we can't just sit in the middle. so they have picked a side, which certainly aligns with the new cia director. not shocked, not stunned that that's the side they picked. >> yeah, this is one of those things that's been relitigated ad nauseam at this point. the scientific consensus is a little bit more towards the human side, animal to human jump. then what the cia has concluded. but obviously there's a lot of, you know, debate over the origins of this virus. it matters

materially, obviously, because if this was a lab leak that can affect both what we do diplomatically, but also our world health institutions and how they approach the chinese. but ultimately, we're 4 or 5 years now past when this happened. we need some clarity. i'd like to get some more clarity on it, but it seems like we're at this place where we're just going to keep debating the origins of it, and that's unfortunate. >> yeah. i mean, you know, the thing is, mika, what? there is one thing we do know. we don't know if it's a lab leak. we don't know if it happened in a wet market. one thing we do know is that the chinese kept the trump administration out there, like matt pottinger was trying desperately to get in to get the answers early on, and china would not let him in. i mean, you know, this hit america. we really were aware of it in in march of 2020. in december of 2019, he was he was like ringing the alarm bell trying to get the

chinese to give us information. they stonewalled. and so here we are, five years later, still asking questions that the chinese could have let us get in early 2020 at the very, very latest. >> okay. >> i don't. >> think it's that much of a mystery. sorry, folks. you know, the law of parsimony, occam's razor. this is a unique laboratory. the idea that the disease broke out in wuhan, that'd be one hell of a coincidence. the reason it's still at all fuzzy is the chinese essentially have eradicated any evidence that made it impossible for any of the people working at the lab to speak. but i think it's i you know, i am comfortable with the conclusion that the only reason it's low confidence is because there's not sufficient evidence anymore, and we're never going to get it. the chinese are worried about being blamed. they're worried about reparations. but again, you'd have to believe in coincidences. coincidences on top of them. the day that this broke out in this city, i think the argument is pretty powerful that it came from these experiments there and then, you know, it raises some very awkward questions about

american funding of some of these experiments and, and so forth. but i think it's i don't think this is actually a big mystery anymore. >> all right. coming up, oscar winning actor f murray abraham is our guest. we'll talk about the play that brought him off-broadway when morning joe comes right back. >> baby, please keep me. up. i think i love. >> this is me before santobello and this is after this. >> year lose. >> stubborn fat. >> permanently with sono bello. one visit that removal. >> i wanted. >> the results. >> of a tummy tuck, but not the downtime. >> i'm so happy. i'm loving life. i'm loving my body. i'm loving all my loose fitting clothes. my waist is. >> contoured. >> my belly is flat. there's no pooch anymore. >> schedule your free, no

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>> and that's. >> included in the. >> $95. >> oh. >> welcome to warby parker. >> this is the game everyone wanted the heavyweight battle. you got the quarterbacks at the top of the mountain. first and goal. mahomes still has it to the five. and in for the touchdown. >> there he is kansas city chiefs quarterback patrick mahomes adds his second rushing touchdown to his 245 yards passing. he also got a td in the air against the buffalo bills

last night. that one gave the chiefs the lead early in the fourth quarter. the bills tied the game on the next possession, a nine play, 90 yard drive capped by josh allen's big fourth down throw to curtis samuel in the back of the end zone. but mahomes answered with four consecutive completions to set up a go ahead field goal, and the chiefs defense did the rest of the work. kc, making a huge stop on what will be buffalo's final drive, denying the bills on fourth down to force a turnover. with two minutes left to play. allen had a shot at that ball. tough, tough catch. couldn't bring it in. chiefs get a couple first downs. run out the clock and they win 32 to 29. and the afc title game their dreams of a three peat still alive. the chiefs will be the familiar opponent in the super bowl after the philadelphia eagles dismantled the washington commanders for the nfc title earlier yesterday that star running back saquon barkley. he rushed for 118 yards and three touchdowns. >> go giants! >> including that one on the eagles first play from scrimmage. washington had moved

the ball down the field slowly. one play bang touchdown. eagles also took advantage of four turnovers by the commanders. the commanders just ran out of magic yesterday, and philly scored the most points by a team in a conference championship in the modern nfl era. the eagles whooped the commanders 55 to 23. so super bowl 59 is sunday, february 9th at the superdome in new orleans. it's a rematch of the big game just two years ago that was won by the chiefs, who now face the eagles for a second time in their bid for an unprecedented three peat. so, joe, i mean, i will say i don't think this is exactly the super bowl matchup most of america wanted. we just did see this game two years ago. that said, there are some compelling storylines. of course, chiefs looking to become the first team ever to win three in a row. mahomes already going for his fourth. and then we have the eagles. saquon barkley the most exciting player in the league right now. you know they've got a strong defense too. yeah should be a good one then.

>> saquon used to play for the giants richard he did i can't richard. >> just to my. >> left make the point that. oh boy. so gifted a player. if he had played for the giants this year he wouldn't be playing now because they never would have been near the playoffs. he never would have had more than 1000 yards. so i don't feel any any discomfort. it's great to see a great player have a chance to show. >> his whatever. >> it's nice. >> for sure. stop. >> you don't mean. >> any richard. doesn't mean. >> any of. >> that whatsoever. let's bring it right now, though, to pablo torre. he finds out on meadowlark media. msnbc contributor pablo torre. first of all, i think we can all agree washington has a great future with jayden daniels, a great future. things like that happen. you know, first time to the big dance and certainly the championship game. but you know, i want to say something that that i mean i don't want to say but i'm going to have to say it. i know you're going to agree with me here. you know, nick saban would say, you know, there's blocking, there's tackling, but there's also just knowing how to win. that is a

talent in and of itself. bear bryant used to say about pat trammell, his favorite quarterback. he said he couldn't run, he couldn't throw. but if you needed six yards for a first down, he'd get you seven. they're just those type of players. and there's a reason why. today, we talk about joe montana as being one of the greats of all time, and not jim kelly, because in those moments where you've got to make the last drive to win the game, joe montana always did it. jim kelly, god bless him, i loved him. he didn't at that level. and of course, i love josh allen. everything about that guy, he is buffalo, but he is not. it hurts me to say he is not patrick mahomes. >> no, he is salieri. i said this to you on friday. f murray abraham is going to be on your show later today. it happens to be i look this up cosmically mozart's birthday today. i don't know if you're having him on

harrison. wow. but i say that because patrick mahomes is a prodigy. okay. no one has had a start to his career like this guy in professional football and at a certain point, a prodigy can become a super villain. and the question is whether you feel like salieri or whether you feel like claire mccaskill at this point. because, joe, what you're talking about knowing how to win the chiefs, it's beyond, i think, an intuitive feel. it is something it's something deeper and darker. we just haven't seen a team truly squeeze the randomness out of the most random sport that america loves and turn it into order. and if you're the bills, if you're whether you're the ghost of jim kelly or whether you're the family of dalton kincaid, that tight end who dropped that ball on fourth down, that was so, so close to making that potentially a tie game. you throw your hands

up and you're like, i think. i think we're just we've been banished to the dustbin of history. >> coming up, a look at this year's 50 over 50 global list recognizing women who have achieved significant success and impact. well after the age of 50. we'll get all the details 50. we'll get all the details straight ahead on morning the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention.

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>> my entire life. >> has. >> been spent preparing. >> for the.

>> end times. >> my father. >> founder of the now infamous oath keepers, stewart rhodes, the third. >> who was going. >> to save america from the end of the world. >> the big lie is that there was some concerted plan near the capitol. it just wasn't. >> stewart was becoming increasingly unstable. >> people are gravitating to him like a son. i bet everything on him being locked away forever. >> welcome back. time now for a look at the morning papers. the arizona republic reports the phoenix union high school district has declared itself a safe zone for undocumented students. the move comes after president trump rescinded a longstanding policy that barred ice operations near schools. the district says its students need to be on campus free of fear, regardless of, quote, political climate that we find ourselves in. in nevada, the reno gazette

journal highlights a citywide ban on homeless camping. the new move by reno's city council is an expansion of an existing ban, limited to the city's downtown area. violators of the rule, which also includes sitting or lying on public property, will be given a warning. repeat offenses, however, could result in an arrest or a misdemeanor charge. the los angeles times is reporting. some parents in los angeles county are struggling to find childcare after the recent wildfires there. according to the paper, 37 child care facilities have been destroyed in the fires. an additional 284 are non-operational due to ash, debris or lack of potable water, according to the california department of social services and the arizona daily star reports. republican state representative wants to find people who are driving slow in the left lane of the highway. the republican lawmaker is

looking to expand a current law to include a $500 fine for slowing down traffic. the state would also be required to put up signs that say left lane for passing only slow traffic, keep right. okay. and this morning we have a big announcement regarding forbes and know your values 50 over 50 list, which recognizes women who have achieved significant success. well after the age of 50. late last week, we released our 50 over 50 global list. it comes on the heels of our u.s. list, which proved once again that age is your best asset. this year's honorees come from over 30 countries and territories. they are shaping everything from cybersecurity to science and even traffic safety. maybe she can help that republican representative. so here to tell us more is the editor of forbes women, maggie mcgrath, who is abroad. but you can handle it. i love our global list. i love it

because this list immediately went international because of the unbelievable response we had to the very first u.s. list. but give us an overview of this year's diverse global list. >> one of the beauties of the 50. >> over 50. >> franchise is it illustrates the many, many ways women over the age of 50 are making an impact on the world. so on this global list, which we looked at the entire world except the us, we have authors like margaret atwood. she's 85 years old, and her work is more resonant than ever before. we have leaders like sania nishtar, she's the ceo of gavi, the vaccine alliance. i would argue that she has one of the most important jobs in all of public health, with the goal of vaccinating 500 million children by 2030. other examples include 65 year old astrid linder. she's the traffic safety expert you mentioned. she is based in sweden and she is responsible for bringing to the world the first prototype of a female crash test dummy. astrid

had done research for decades, looking into why is it that women have higher rates of whiplash and injury and car accidents? and she realized that the crash test dummies using that we build airbags on were built based on the average male body and not the female body. so in 2022, she unveiled a prototype. and finally, we have a lot of founders on the list, including wanja gichuru. she is the founder of a fashion brand in kenya. it has become east africa's largest fashion brand. she opened her first store in the us just last year, but she really talks about how her goal is to create jobs for people in kenya. >> i love it. we're also looking at the list in terms of politics and policy. who jumped out at you? >> so someone on the list was just sworn into her role earlier this month, and that would be 73 year old naana jane opoku-agyeman. she is ghana's vice president, the first woman to hold the role, and she's a longtime academic. she had served as ghana's minister of

education from 2013 to 2017 and in fact, about her career i love that is. while she held that role, she published her first creative writing project, a five volume children's folklore project called who told the most incredible story? so very committed to education and literacy. but of course, we also have another big political figure in mexico, president claudia sheinbaum. she was elected in a landslide victory last june, sworn in in october. she's the first female president in mexico's 200 year history as an independent country. and though she used part of her inauguration address to say her election means it's time for women, she also knows she faces serious challenges in the way of violent drug cartels, policies from the trump administration, and more. >> she's incredible. she has a lot on her plate, too. it's interesting. i was just interviewing michelle yeoh. she's one of us on our us list, i think. yeah. and she when you look at these beautiful these women, you don't think of age. it's so incredible that they

have created this incredibly large, long runway. there's so many of them. i want to turn now to our fourth annual cross generational 3050 summit, which is going to take place in march on and around international women's day. we've already announced some great speakers. there are a few we are going to be announcing soon that we can't yet, and today we have two new names to share. tell us who will be at 3050. >> well, just to recap, we have already announced freida pinto and lynsey addario and yusra mardini and alexis ohanian, and today i am thrilled to add two more names to that list. we have deepika padukone and alka joshi. deepika is one of bollywood's highest paid actresses. she has appeared in some of the top hindi films over the last decade, but one of the things that's really interesting about deepika is she has made an impact off the screen by being really open. about her experience with depression, she has created a foundation dedicated to spreading awareness

in india about mental health issues and treatment options, and she's been honored for this work. so we're really excited to talk to her about how she uses her platform and storytelling to create social change. and then, of course, on the subject of storytelling, we have alka joshi. she is the author of the henna artist trilogy. she was on the 20 2350 over 50 list because of her incredible journey towards becoming an author. she published her debut novel in 2020. she was 62 years old at the time. she had worked on that book for ten years. it hit the bestseller list, translated into 29 languages. she published two follow up books, but we're really excited because her newest novel is coming out in april, so we will get to talk to her about it and i can't wait to read it. >> i love it. okay, so we have more announcements coming up. okay. so you're going to have to come back and we'll do a morning mika on this incredible 50 over 50 global list. i'd love for you to jump on board for that as well. so maggie mcgrath, thank you. we are counting down to abu

dhabi. and if to read more about all the women who made our 50 over 50 global list, and to get more details about the 3050 summit, we'd love to see you there, head over to forbes.com and know your value. dot com maggie, thank you so much. and still ahead on morning joe, we're keeping an eye on the markets which have been dropping in the pre trading hours. plus just a week into his second term. and donald trump already testing the boundaries of the presidency. peter baker of the new york times joins us at the top of the hour with his new reporting on that and the latest on elon musk, who made a surprise virtual appearance over the weekend at a campaign event for a far right party in germany. keep it right here on morning joe. >> you'll be back. emus can help people customize and save with liberty mutual.

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liberty. >> what matters is the nation. >> we build. >> yeah. all right. >> because in america, all. >> men. >> are created equal. >> america. >> not england. we do in the sequel. and we will have leaders. >> but no one. thing in. >> america. >> we will never have a king. >> never say never. kidding? of course. though in many ways i'm not. i'm in my king era. oh, look at lynn. look how bad he wants to do a rap. he wrote a whole rap and he doesn't get to do it. oh, the audience would have eaten that right up. but we're not going to hear it. he's in sniffing distance of an egot, and he's got to stand there till i'm done. lindy, lindy, lindy? lindy. laura linney, lin-manuel miranda cosgrove. there is. >> welcome to the fourth hour of morning joe with a ltle dose of saturday night live for you at 6 a.m. on the west coast, 9

a.m. in the east, along with joe, jonathan lemire and me. we have chief white house correspondent for the new york times, peter baker and editor at large for the 19th, which is five years old today. erin haynes and joe aaron has a picture of you, me and her maybe 12 years ago at a know your value event in washington, dc. so. >> wow. >> you've really you've you've really done great things aaron, especially with the 19th. >> well thank you. i mean, talk about knowing your value. that was really part of the journey to us starting the 19th. five years old today. and what a different country we're in than we were five years ago. but absolutely, like the story of gender and politics could not be more relevant now. >> absolutely, joe. what a difference five years makes. >> what a difference. you said 12 years. i want to start saying the way we were. could it. be

that it was so simple there. >> listen, you would not believe. i mean, seriously, it's crazy. we. of course, we all look the same. young and beautiful. politics is not addressed in any way. >> so. no. >> no, we're. >> not tired. not at all. nothing. no. she only showed the picture for like, a nanosecond. so. >> exactly, exactly. so let's talk about, though, what? what may age? a lot of people this morning. john. john lemire, right now, it looks like the stock market is going to take a beating. i've been talking pretty consistently about my concerns about three bubbles. the stock market bubble led by a possible tech bubble. and then of course, the fiscal bubble, $36 trillion debt. there's a story in the wall street journal this morning about the new york times, about the challenges of that debt and what it's going to limit the president and

lawmakers from doing over the next few years. and then the third is crypto. i mean, this is this this economy is running hot. you've got you've got you've got earnings that don't match with basic realities. this weekend i saw with i saw the big short again. and you just sat there going, how could we have ever been so disconnected from then you're like, oh wait, oh. and so this morning i'm, i'm not saying that this is, you know, this is going to be the beginning of something much worse. but this idea that markets go up forever and this idea, this threat coming from china, this idea that everybody has to line up and deal with america or there's nobody else for them to deal with right now. you know, we're finding out it is not a unipolar world. and right now the nasdaq and these

tech stocks are on track to lose $1 trillion today. if these trend lines continue. so again it's. we got to wait till 930 to see what what's actually going to happen when trading opens. but man, like i've said all along, donald trump, republicans in washington, they need to tread very carefully because right now we've got three bubbles. we've got an economy that's running hot and anything can happen. >> yeah, we're still about a half hour away until the markets open on wall street. but you just saw we just saw the futures board. lot of red and a lot of worry here. trillion dollars. that's that's real money. this is coming of course from news from a chinese startup named deep tech about its own ai technology. cheaper, more effective. that's what they're saying. the market's reacting to the idea. who of course, is a leader in that field. it's

already down 10% this morning. technology firms across the us pre-market slumps right now because these dives because of this news from overseas, we have yet to hear from president trump yet. i think it's a matter of time before we do. he, of course, so closely allied with a lot of these tech leaders now, we saw so many of them on the inauguration platform just a week ago, mika. and we know that the this president in particular sort of values his worth based on what the stock market is doing. and he inherited a roaring one. it had a very good week last week. but today, ominous signs here with real questions about the future of ai, not just in terms of the morality but as a business, and whether that can happen here in the us or abroad. >> we shall see. and joe, it's everyone's going to be waiting, of course, for 930. and andrew ross sorkin will be on to talk more about this. >> yeah. and peter baker, of course, i'm sure you've written this article before. i've said it for 35, 40 years. presidents

always get too much credit for a great economy and not enough and too much blame for a bad economy. certainly nothing said here suggested here has anything to do with donald trump. why? this is why. why things are going are joe biden. but but what does have something to do with this administration and the republicans is, again, if they have this idea that the united states stands alone on the world stage and we don't have competition from china, which which we do, that's a problem. also, the idea that we can tell the eu to go pound sand. i'll repeat it. we have a 25, $26 trillion gdp. the eu and the uk have about a $26 trillion gdp. china about 18 trillion. we want to stay aligned. this is me talking with the eu because we

are so powerful together. but if europe starts looking to china and say, well, listen, if and we've heard this from middle east countries, if, if the united states is going to, you know, going to be constantly raising tariffs, constantly like trying to elbow us out of the way, we have another place to go. >> yeah, i think. >> that's right. >> exactly. you know. >> look, of course donald. trump loves to take credit when the stock market goes up. i'm sure. >> he'll of course take responsibility. >> when it goes down. >> even when. >> neither one has anything to do with him. but that's the way of the beast. he does measure his own success by, you know, stock market historically. but you're right. i think this points to a larger, bigger issues. and it was one of the things that president. biden talked about in his farewell address, one of the two issues. >> he talked. >> about, urging president trump to really focus on was. ai and the other being climate. and i think that that's something that you've even seen president trump focus on in these early days.

>> in part because. >> of his, you know, developing relationship with the tech industry. but it's a huge issue going forward. and the idea that. he is going to go it alone, the united states is going to go it alone, as you rightly say, that you're going to, you know, stiff arm our friends in the european union and canada and mexico, that has consequences, potentially. and the question is whether he's going to continue to do that or see a larger threat there. >> all right. and as the second week of the trump administration gets underway over the weekend, federal agents ramped up immigration enforcement operations, with agents arresting more than 950 people. the operations targeted several major cities across the country, including atlanta, chicago, los angeles and miami. the trump administration says ice has made nearly 2700 arrests since inauguration day. the president's mass deportation efforts sparked a brief tariff standoff with colombia.

yesterday, the colombian president denied entry to two u.s. military planes carrying about 80 colombian migrants, each, accusing the u.s. of treating the migrants like criminals. president trump responded by calling for 25% tariffs and visa sanctions on colombia, whose president then threatened 25% tariffs on american goods. but late last night, the trump administration backed off the trade threats after colombia said it would accept deportation flights. president trump on friday fired 18 inspectors general across the federal government. the move goes against a law passed in 2022, requiring a 30 day notice from the white house to congress before an inspector general is removed from their position. but trump allies in the senate are defending the president's decision. >> time and time again. the supreme court has said. >> that congress. >> can't impose restrictions on

the president's power to remove officers. so ultimately, these inspectors general serve at the pleasure pleasure of the president. he wants new people in there. he wants people who focused on getting out waste and fraud and abuse and reforming these agencies. >> i'm not overly worried. >> about that. >> it's not the. >> first time people have come in and put their team in place. when you. >> win an election. >> you need people in your. administration that reflect. >> your views. >> so i'm. >> not really worried. >> about that. >> but very quickly, the law says he's supposed to. >> 30. >> days, 30 days notice. >> he didn't. >> do that. do you think he violated the law? >> well. >> technically, yeah, but he has the authority to do it. so i'm not, you know, losing a whole lot of sleep that he wants to change the personnel out. >> meanwhile, secretary of state marco rubio has ordered an immediate pause on most u.s. foreign aid. it comes after an executive order from the president for a 90 day review of the state department's efficiency and alignment with u.s. policy. more of president trump's cabinet nominees will

face lawmakers this week. trump's pick to lead the department of health and human services, robert f kennedy jr, will sit for two confirmation hearings. controversial picks kash patel and tulsi gabbard are also scheduled to appear on capitol hill. last week, the senate confirmed john ratcliffe for cia director kristi noem for homeland security and vice president jd vance broke a tie in the upper chamber to confirm pete hegseth as defense secretary. also, egypt and jordan both rejected president trump's suggestion that palestinians should be resettled in their countries. the president floated the idea on saturday, telling reporters that gaza should be cleaned out. egypt and jordan both emphasized palestinian statehood as the only solution. >> peter baker, let's get you the president, of course, made some of this news gaggle on air

force one coming back from the west coast on friday as he surveyed some of the fire damage there in los angeles, has been met pretty coolly by some in the gulf. give us what you know in terms of the origins of this idea, what you know, why trump is suddenly settling on this, taking many by surprise, and how you see it playing out. >> well, we'll see how it plays out. i mean, how serious he is about it. we don't know. he often says things that just sort of come to mind, or somebody has mentioned or whispered in his ear. he's talked about gaza in the past as a place that could be a great resort area. you know, he says he's a real estate guy. he knows that it's a terrific territory. he once said that he visited there even though he never did. and so, you know, is this something he's going to pursue, or is this something he's just playing, you know, playing, you know, spitball in effect with both both egypt and jordan do not want palestinians to come live in their countries. jordan already has an extraordinary sized palestinian population there. it has at times been

destabilizing for the monarchy. this is an existential issue for them. this is not just a matter of taking a few refugees here or there. similarly, egypt does not want to, like, suddenly absorb all of gaza or much of gaza's population. they have been consistent about that for many, many years. it's not something they want to do. and the question is whether or not that's something that trump could try to force. we have seen with his experience with columbia over the weekend, how quickly he is willing to use the instruments of power to force other countries to do his bidding. he, in fact, obviously has a lot of tools with both jordan and egypt if he chooses to use them. egypt is one of the largest recipients of american aid. and, you know, i don't know how far he plans to take this or if this is just him, you know, playing with with ideas and we'll see where it goes. the truth is, it would be a very destabilizing idea for the region. but, you know, that may not be something that matters to him. >> yeah. you know, jonathan lemire, i've been on the phone this morning talking to people in the region, deep skepticism,

to say the least, about this plan, and was told very bluntly and in words. i won't repeat here that the saudis, jordan, egypt will not go along with this. there's no way they will go along with this. and columbia is one thing. saudi arabia is quite another. >> yeah that's right. in terms of economic might and the us reliance on on saudi arabia, and certainly there is still a belief and hope in the trump administration that a saudi israel normalization deal can be worked out. let's remember that the biden administration was on the brink of doing just that before the october 7th attacks. the trump team hopes to expand the abraham accords and get that done in the months ahead. we should also note the trump team announced the continuing cease fire between israel and lebanon over the weekend, and we're seeing more prisoners come out out of gaza. so there's a lot of opportunity there. the trump team believes they have told me, but it's uncertain going. and

joe, i agree in terms of what i've heard from the region as well, it seems very unlikely that others in the other partners or these other gulf states will go for this. >> we'll continue to follow this. aaron, i want to turn back to the pardons and mass deportations. i'm curious how the 19th is looking at these two. items that were donald trump's campaign promises, and many voters voted for him wanting to see these things happening. >> absolutely. i mean, this was a campaign promise. certainly, the january 6th prisoners releasing them, pardoning them, you know, framing them as he continues to frame them as hostages, as folks who were wrongly prosecuted, despite the fact that many of those people pled guilty, you know, took responsibility for their actions. and now those people are returning to their communities. a lot of folks in those communities who turned them in, who testified against them, concerned about what that is going to mean going forward, and what message that sends really about accountability for what happened on the events of

january 6th, 2021. right? so, yeah, at the 19th, we absolutely revisited january 6th on that anniversary, talking to so many of the women lawmakers in particular, who were in that building on that day. i mean, they still have have painful and terrifying memories of what that experience was. and so just the very different framing of kind of how you see the president now literally trying to whitewash the history of january 6th. >> i hear what you're saying completely understand it and couldn't agree more. at the same time, do you think that a voters who voted for donald trump don't understand what happened on january 6th and are sitting here surprised about it? or do and voted, still continued to vote for him because they wanted to see this sort of twisting of the of the truth happen. well. >> i think that, you know, in part there were some people that definitely voted for him because of his commitment to release those january 6th prisoners.

there were some people who, you know, the. >> leaders in the big lie. >> certainly were still locked in to the big lie. and, you know, people still saying that they didn't see the footage, although we know that that footage is widely available for anybody who wants to see it. right. but folks who are really in denial about what happened that day or have decided that that that didn't really matter in terms of how that factored into how they were going to participate in last year's election. so, i mean, that i think some of what we are going to see in terms of what happened with some of these raids that happened over over the weekend, how those went down. there was a lot of attention the last time that that president trump was in office around immigration, and how certainly there the american people are concerned about what to do about immigration, but how immigration is being handled in this country. people want that to be a humane process. and so, yes, i think there are a lot of his voters who may be okay with some of what we've seen, just even in the in the first week of him being in office. but you have to remember, his voters are not necessarily the american people. and so, like, for us as

a country and as a media, to continue to be focused on, you know, we know who he is at this point. like, who are the american people? are they okay with what they are seeing happen? as you know, he continues to roll out this policy. >> yeah, there's no question these are campaign promises that donald trump made. he is following through. but there are some divides on his team even and certainly among his supporters, whether or not violent criminals should have been pardoned as part of the january 6th and just the pure scope of the immigration raids, that's what we're going to be seeing in the weeks ahead. we are seeing a little pushback from some republicans anyway. so let's turn now to one of this morning's must read opinion pages. it's from new york times columnist ezra klein. we mentioned it earlier, and it has this headline, trump has something he would like to bring to your attention. and ezra writes in part, this something has felt different about the early days of president trump's second term. and i think it's this attention, not cash, is the form of power that most interests him. we have come to expect and accept a grotesque

level of daily corruption in american politics. but we have at least some rules to limit money's power in politics. if trump saves tiktok and in turn, tiktok boosts pro-trump content before the 2026 elections to help it go viral, would that be illegal? if elon musk turns the dials on x to tilt the conversation in the republican party's direction before the 2028 elections, who will stop him? we have largely failed to regulate the role of money in politics for attention. the problem is worse, and we have not even begun to attempt solutions. so peter baker, this is so timely. this piece we were talking with chris hayes earlier today about his new book, which is all about capturing attention and the currency there and frankly, the pitfalls there. but for donald trump, it has always been about looking at him. that's what he wants. and now he has. now he has some of the leaders of these tech giants helping him out. >> yeah, absolutely. and that's what he wants more than

anything, i think. why has he saved tiktok? remember he had said himself while president that he would ban tiktok? tik tok was a threat to the american security because it was owned by a chinese company and that we should, in fact, not allow it to operate here. why has he changed his mind on this? why has he flipped 180 degrees? he explained it himself. he said, because tiktok was nice to me. he said, because i did very well on tiktok, because i got a lot of votes off of young people, off tiktok. in other words, for him, the question was not whether it was a national security threat and is not a national security threat. the question is, was it helpful to him? was it something that was beneficial from his point of view? so that's the screen through which he makes these decisions. he said that openly. he said that to us time and time again. so it's not going to be surprising if in fact, some of these tech, you know, platforms seem to feel like it's in their interest to make sure that he gets what he wants out of this. and we're still dealing with vast amounts of disinformation, misinformation, which he is also going after. fact checking in the trump administration is

considered to be, you know, a verboten. and in fact, they want there to be as much freedom as possible to say things that are not true. >> yeah. final words to errin haines. you can comment on that and just how the 19th moves forward, what you've learned in five years. yeah. these times. >> i mean, i think that this, this social media conversation is so important. and again, you know, president trump's relationship with with these with these tech tech leaders in hopes that maybe they will be amplifying him so that, you know, he can have that attention as currency kind of perpetuate in this trump 2.0 era. i mean, look, you also saw the instagram and facebook blocking abortion pill providers posts over the over the weekend. that is something that we also learned was happening. so even as you know, president trump's content may be elevated. you have potentially, you know, folks who are trying to, you know, for example, provide information for

folks who are looking for reproductive access. those people are being suppressed, like, how is that going to continue kind of as we go along. but yeah, i mean, at our five year anniversary, the 19th is absolutely meeting this moment in our democracy, in our society. i think that we are seeing just kind of overall, you know, this is a president that is that is not only committed to efforts to dismantle efforts to expand our democracy in society, which is what we saw before. he is against that. we saw the moves that he took on dei. we saw the moves that he has taken on gender. like that's only going to continue. and so, you know, continuing to just kind of ask about who the american people are, especially as it pertains to our commitment to gender equity as part of what it means to have a healthy democracy, feels hugely important. >> editor at large for the 19th errin haines and peter baker of the new york times, thank you both very much for being on this morning. congratulations. and coming up on morning joe. investors are on edge as tech companies grapple with the

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are down sharply this morning amid fears of an i stock bubble burst. global tech investors could face a $1 trillion wipeout after the news of chinese artificial intelligence startup deep seek, releasing an open source ai model at just a fraction of the cost of its competitors. the company's models appear to rival those from openai, google and meta. despite the u.s. government's effort to limit china's access to cutting edge ai technology.

joe. >> let's bring in the co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box in new york times columnist andrew ross sorkin. andrew, we have talked over the past couple of months about my fear. i think our fear of three bubbles, the crypto bubble, the fiscal bubble, $36 trillion in debt, and the stock market bubble. i want to read this. i just looked this up while mika was introducing you. the stock market. this is from fortune. three days ago, the stock market gauge named after warren buffett, just hit an all time high, sending a warning worse than before the.com bubble bust. hey, this may be a one day story that said, warren buffett's believed for a very long time. and a lot of other people like me believe that the valuations are not connected to reality. whether you're talking about crypto, whether you're talking about just how huge the

overvaluation is of a lot of stocks. look, there's no question the market has been almost. >> priced to perfection. >> it almost. >> has. >> to be perfect for it to. >> all work out or make any kind of sense. and by the way. >> you're talking about crypto. and you're. >> looking at these ai and big. >> tech stocks, they're. >> almost connected this morning insofar as bitcoin is now falling below $100,000, in large part because a lot of the folks who own. crypto also happen to be beneficiaries. or happen to have owned a lot. >> of those. >> big tech companies. >> i just want to put. >> this in perspective. >> today. this week, last week i. >> think is going to. be historic in terms of a major shift, an upending of the entire paradigm around artificial intelligence. the big tech companies. >> the big. >> chip companies. and everything else around it, including energy. you know, for a very long time last. >> two years. we've talked. >> about these scaling laws, this idea that for ai to get better and better, you need faster. >> and faster chips. they need to be putting. tens and hundreds of billions. >> of dollars of investment in place. they need enormous amounts of energy to support all

of that. all of a sudden. >> literally in a week, we've. >> now seen. >> deep sea. >> this chinese. large language model emerge. where it. >> appears it's. >> all being done at a fraction of the energy, at a fraction of. the chip usage. >> and so. >> if that. >> is true, it really. >> changes the dynamic. >> about. >> all of these. investments we just saw. last week. sam altman standing next, sam altman to openai, standing next to president trump talking about how they're going to invest, you know, 100 billion, $500 billion in chips. and the question is, do you need all of that? if, in. >> fact. >> this small. >> group. >> tiny. group of. >> 200 people. figured out how to do this, now i. >> will say. >> and it's a bit of a i don't want to. >> say. >> conspiracy theory, but there is a view that potentially. >> this model was created. >> actually using. >> a lot of the. >> highest end nvidia. chips that, frankly, the chinese were not. >> supposed to have. >> there is a view. >> inside the ai community. >> that it is possible that. >> they did get ahold of some 50,000. >> chips. >> and if they did. >> that might explain a lot.

>> more of. >> this than. perhaps meets the eye. but if. >> they didn't. >> boy, has. >> the whole. landscape just changed. >> and the value of all these companies, which was so high. invariably has to come down, because you won't need the. >> investment. >> that you. >> used. >> to have to. >> well. >> and again, because the information's coming from china, we don't know exactly what the story is. we were just talking about it, obviously with covid and 20 2020. so we're going to have to wait and see. that said though, china regardless, andrew, you know, china has obviously their economic outlook has been damaged by xi and his moves over the past five years. that said, they are still an economic behemoth. and this idea also that i think if in fact, this plays out, that it shatters this idea that the u.s. can say we're going it alone, it's our way or the highway, you've got a lot, of lot of countries in

europe. you've got a lot of countries in the gulf states that are going, yeah, this isn't 1951. like if you want to elbow us out of the way, we've got china we can work with. >> yeah. >> and i will say the. >> other piece of this. >> not only can you work. >> with. >> china. >> the. >> most interesting thing about. >> this particular. >> thing that just came out. >> is it's free. >> it's open source. >> so meaning anybody. >> can use it. >> you can actually. >> run it on your own laptop. >> it doesn't have to actually be operated. >> from china. >> you know, we talk about tiktok. it doesn't. >> have to be. like that. >> and you can actually see the code. so you actually can know whether it's secure or not secure or what it is. it, i mean. >> from a national. >> not just national security. but national sort. >> of economic. >> competitive perspective. if you wanted. >> to. >> deal a death. >> blow to what. >> seemed to. >> be the u.s. advantage over everybody. >> else in one. >> fell swoop. >> if in fact, this is real and what. we're hearing and it may not be, but. >> if it is.

>> boy, have they done something pretty. >> remarkable to us. >> okay, cnbc's andrew ross sorkin will be watching that with you. thank you very much. elon musk is taking his politics well beyond washington. the billionaire tech executive made a surprise virtual appearance over the weekend at a campaign event for a far right party in germany. nbc news white house correspondent vaughn hillyard has the details. >> i'm very excited. >> for the. >> growing criticism over a virtual appearance by elon musk. musk beaming into a campaign event this weekend for germany's far right party known as the afd. but it's this apparent reference to nazi germany's history that is drawing attention. >> i think there's like, frankly, too. >> much of a of a focus on on past guilt, and we need to move. >> beyond that. people, you know, children should not be guilty of the sins of their parents. >> his comments quick to receive

backlash. the chair of yad vashem, israel's memorial to holocaust victims, calling it an insult to the victims of nazism and a clear danger to the democratic future of germany. the remarks coming less than a week after musk posted a series of nazi related puns online. in response to criticism over this gesture he made at an inauguration event, which some have interpreted as a nazi salute. the anti-defamation league, appearing to initially defend musk, saying he made an awkward gesture, not a nazi salute, but later called out his series of nazi jokes, saying they only serve to minimize the evil and inhumanity of nazi crimes. musk, describing what he did as moving his hand from my heart to the audience. nbc news reached out to the white house for comment, but did not hear back. musk, who has already played a key role in president trump's administration, has appeared to support and endorse far right parties across europe, like germany's afd. in 2017, the

afd adopted a 2017 election manifesto, which included a section on why islam does not belong to germany. musk has also spoken out in support of the uk's reform party, which helped initiate the brexit campaign, and said this about italy's far right prime minister. >> giorgia meloni. >> is someone. >> that i admire. >> meanwhile, some maga allies like steve bannon have chided musk over his criticism this week of an ai tech announcement at the white house in support of visas for high skilled foreign workers. >> speaking right now, staff writer at the atlantic anne applebaum, she has a new piece out this morning asking, can europe stop elon musk? and you know the question that i'm so glad you're here and we can get your insight. i would just assume if elon musk is going into to britain and trying to influence their elections, i

would think there would be blowback that would help labor if he was doing the same thing in germany, especially on the eve of the 80th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz. you would think the social democrats and the christian democrats in germany would be helped by that. is there any evidence that there is blowback from the world's richest man trying to influence these political elections? >> so yes, there is blowback. i saw some statistics showing that elon musk, who i think was previously rather popular in europe, you know, he was seen as an advocate of green energy and so on, that his popularity has gone down. there has been a backlash against him, both from the labor party and the tories. actually, the conservative party in britain who don't like him interfering in their campaigns. there's a blowback in germany, but there is another problem which actually is connected to something you guys were talking about a few minutes ago, which is that the problem isn't just

musk, it's also his platform. so his platform is configured to, you know, give an advantage to the afd or if it's configured to give an advantage to the reform party, to the to the far right in the uk. and, you know, is that legal? is that interference in the election campaigns of europe? and this is actually a big political question now in europe, which is it's not just musk himself and the, you know, the what seemed to be now deliberately provocative, deliberately, you know, kind of nazi, quasi nazi or even real nazi things that he's saying. but it's also the fact that he runs a very influential social media platform whose algorithms can be can be manipulated. >> so, anne, let's broaden this a little bit here, because you can't talk about elon musk right now without talking about donald trump. and we saw over the weekend that trump did break with musk a little bit because he had a phone call with uk prime minister keir starmer, praised him, said he was a good man. you know, we know musk has been sharply critical of the

prime minister here. but how is europe, europe leaders that you've spoken to, how are they taking these two in tandem now that trump's back in power? >> it's very difficult. you know, is musk a business leader? is he a member of the trump administration? should he be treated as an official? and this is this is the difficulty with musk, is that he is now effectively an oligarch in the russian meaning of the word meaning, he's somebody who is both very wealthy and politically influential. and those roles cross. and that's created a lot of confusion in europe. i mean, it has given some impetus to there is a new european law called the digital services act, which is theoretically capable of regulating social media, including twitter or x. they're looking at it right now. their main goal is to open it up and make it more transparent. but there is now a question, you know, can europeans regulate social media? will there be a

blowback from the trump administration? jd vance has hinted that there would be. you know, it's very we're really in a i don't know if americans understand we're really in a new world. we have a we have a government that is an administration that is very, very hard for outsiders to understand because it doesn't it's not acting like any previous american administration. it has people like musk in it whose roles are ambiguous. >> so and when you were asked by european leaders, when you were asked by colleagues across europe what what your take was on the first week of the trump administration and how they should interpret it. what's your answer? >> i mean, my answer is they campaigned using extreme language. they said they were going to do extreme things. trump has appointed a cabinet of people who, many of whom aren't even republicans, or they're certainly not conservatives in any classic european or even american definition of the word

conservative. you know, this is a very radical administration, and, you know, it's going to behave in ways that are not like any american administration that anybody could remember, at least not since the second world war. it's not a question of being right wing or left wing or conservative or liberal. it's just going to behave differently. and the musk is the musk is only one piece of it. i mean, there's the greenland story and there are plenty of other stories. and i think people are genuinely having you know, i've been part of a number of conversations where people say, okay, we need to think differently about the united states, what's our relationship to it? and i think most people are just right now waiting to see what will happen, which i think is the right answer. i mean, let's yeah. you know, you don't you don't, you know, you know, we don't know because this is an administration that, as peter baker said, doesn't act on the in the it's acting in the interests of the president rather than in the interests of american national interests in the way it's been traditionally defined or has been defined for the last 50 years. people are

readjusting the way they think about foreign policy. >> staff writer for the atlantic anne applebaum, thank you so much. we'll be reading the new piece, which is online now. good to see you, anne. thank you very much. and still ahead on morning joe, we're going to bring you an update on the southern california wildfires after the area received desperately needed rain over the weekend. but the drought relief could create new dangers for the la area. we'll explain that next. on morning joe. >> christa, it's time to fess up about you're over 45 and still haven't. >> screened for colon cancer. >> we all. >> know this. >> is like the. >> third year. >> she's turned 44. okay, i wasn't ready. let's drink all that prep, cancel brunch plans. i can't. >> ask for cologuard. it's a one of a kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and noninvasive. >> no prep, and. >> you use it at home. false. >> positive and negative results >> positive and negative results may occur. dexcom g7 sends your glucose numbers to your phone and watch,

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>> decision to resign. >> are there any lessons that can be. learned as you're talking to members of your congregation. >> what. >> do. you tell them about how to stand up for their own moral beliefs, but still find grace in this moment? >> breaking news. >> a. >> fast moving disaster in california. >> breaking news. >> israel and. >> hamas will. >> enter a ceasefire. >> in the nation's. >> capital, philadelphia. >> el paso, the palisades. >> from. >> msnbc. >> world headquarters. >> welcome back. much needed rainfall over the weekend helped crews gain control of the wildfires in southern california, but the rain could also create new disasters such as flash flooding, mudslides and toxic ash runoff. officials say that more evacuations might be necessary as they deal with these new threats. meanwhile, schools in the los angeles area are working to reopen weeks after the most intense days of

the wildfires. the associated press spoke with parents who are concerned about whether schools have done enough to clean up the toxic ash from burned homes and cars, the la unified school district told the ap. it has an environmental consulting consultant inspecting campuses, which includes checking ventilation systems, replacing filters and installing air purifiers in classrooms and offices. the fires are blamed for at least 28 deaths across the los angeles area since january 7th, including randy nyad of malibu, the man better known as crawdaddy was considered a local celebrity in the surfing scene there. that famed scene he was speaking to his mother on the phone, readying a defense of his house on the pacific coast highway as the flames were bearing down on him. his last words to her were pray for the palisades and pray for malibu, i love you. let's

now bring in chris cornelius, who writes obituaries for the wall street journal. he authored randy millard's obit for the paper. and chris, thank you so much for joining us. and, of course, the sheer scope of this devastation in los angeles. it's easy to be overwhelmed by the numbers and sometimes lose track of those individual stories. talk to us about this one, about randy and why he meant so much to that community. >> mr. beard crawdaddy. >> he had. >> an open. >> door policy. >> at his home. and his friends told me. >> that over. >> the last 20 years, thousands. >> of. >> people spent the night at his house, stopped in for a shower. a drink, a meal, just to get some shade. and he was part. >> of this community. you know. >> when we think about malibu, we often think about this as being an enclave of the rich and famous. and really it is. but there's also this community of people who are willing to live in an rv, a van, share a room, a guest home, anything, whatever

it takes to be close to this famous beach, surfrider beach and crawdaddy. mr. beard, he was a member of this community and he was somebody who helped each other out. they were part of this group that just made it work and everybody was helping each other out, and he was a big part of that. >> chris. >> this was a beautiful story, beautiful obituary, and connected with me because it reminds me of quite a few people that i knew in pensacola that that lived their entire lives on the beach or close to the beach. amazing thing is, you talk about that community like this is he could have sold his property, right? he could have made money. but again, this was his life. and the fact that people would go surfing, come to his place, just kind of move in and out. it was it it was like that scene, that life more valuable to him than any amount of money that

some, some property developer could have given him. talk about that. >> he had. >> the life that he wanted to lead. and this was something that i think really resonated with people that he was it was very clear to him the life that he wanted since he was a teenager, since he was in junior high, since he was skipping school to take the bus to malibu to surf. and that's what he wanted to do with his life. that was the community he wanted to be a part of. so yeah, after he bought the house 20 years ago, the value skyrocketed. his. he could have sold it quickly, easily, and walked away a millionaire. his mother tried to get him to do that, but it did not interest him because he had the life that he wanted to live. and i think this is something that i found so fascinating about him was he didn't just have the life that he wanted to live and was content with the life he wanted to live, and was willing to just defend the life that he had. he recognized that he was living this, this life, and it didn't matter if the house was worth 1 million or $2

million, because what was that going to get him that wasn't going to get him any closer to the life he wanted. he already had the life that he wanted, and he had the presence of mind to really appreciate that. >> obituaries. reporter for the wall street journal chris cornelius, thank you so much for joining us with more on that. thanks for being on. and up next. academy award winning actor f murray abraham is live in studio with a look at his new in studio with a look at his new role off broadway. we're back in psoriatic arthritis symptoms can be unpredictable. one day, your joints hurt. next, it's on your skin. i got cosentyx. feels good to move. feel less joint pain, swelling and tenderness, back pain, and clearer skin, and help stop further joint damage with cosentyx. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections, and lowered ability to fight them may occur, like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal, or viral infections. some were fatal. tell your doctor if you have an infection

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businesses. >> i was. >> staring through the cage. of those meticulous. >> ink strokes. at an. >> absolute beauty. >> the hotel i keep. for agatha. we were happy. >> here for a little while. >> a history of insubordination and mental illness might be more

useful to us than a good performance in front of the select committee. hey, i won't do that. i won't throw kerri under the bus and just jump up and down on a really hard. >> you always put. >> yourself first. always. >> so i did. >> the same thing. >> i loved your mother and she loved me. >> it's not that simple. >> yes it is. >> yes it is. that was just a glimpse at the iconic career of our next guest, f murray abraham. now, the academy award winning actor is taking to the stage in his latest project with the off-broadway show entitled beckett briefs. it's a collection of three short plays by the legendary irish writer samuel beckett and f murray. abraham joins us now. he portrays the lead character in one of those plays entitled krapp's last tape, which we're going to get to in just a

moment. but you were wearing the same sweater you have worn on your last morning joe appearances. i just want to point out definitely something my dad would have done. so yeah. welcome back to the show. thank you. exactly the same. tell us, tell us about you. don't even speak for the first few minutes of your scene show. yeah. tell us about your character and what he's looking back on haunted by. and how does he help review his life? >> listen, i'll tell you about this play. this is beckett's favorite play that he wrote. yeah. and if you haven't seen any of beckett, this is. this is the evening to watch. because i'm on stage with some some really other wonderful actors. but it's also a great introduction to beckett. and if you do know beckett, this production is the one to see, because first of all, it's one of the best theaters in new york, the irish rep theater, but

also their prices you can afford. i mean, these days it's so expensive you can't afford. this is the play to see. i hate to tout it so much, but i have to. i love it. >> this is the. >> place to do to. >> do just that. so talk to us before we get into a little more into your role. tell us why beckett is so important. why does he speak to you? well. >> beckett is one of the most important writers of the 20th century. he helped to reshape the theater. and that's what an extraordinary thing to say. but also, it's what it does is let you see theater that you just simply don't experience generally anywhere. it's real theater. it's exciting and it's challenging and it's interesting. so it's not like the it's not predictable at all. >> so your. >> play, it's one man. >> yeah. >> you're playing an elderly man who's listening to old recordings of himself. talk to us about what drew you to that. and are there parallels for any actor who, of course, has a canon like this man, that you could also reflect upon? >> the trick to acting on the stage, one of the tricks is to

keep a sense of privacy, and at the same time, you have to communicate. you have to hear you. they have to see you. so it's a real good trick. but in this play, what i am is like an audience listening to myself. a recording i made 30 years ago and i don't know if, if you're of a certain age where you sometimes you have regrets about things you did do or didn't do. maybe we i think we all do, of. >> course. >> but this man is like getting on, as am i. and there are many things i'd like to do again, i'd like to fix. i'd like to live it again. but the fact is, don't we find ourselves making the same mistakes over and over again? yes, and that's what this does. it examines the humanity of each of us. it's a it's a it's a real challenge. >> and so i'm, i'm curious, looking at your incredible career, where did you get your training. >> on the stage? i was kind of a

hoodlum in el paso, texas. i'm from texas, but i grew up speaking spanish. this is all phony. i made this up. >> it's really. >> yeah. and i love it. i'm a teacher in high schools. saved my bacon. she saw something in me that i didn't know was there, and i began to act. it was. she saved my life. lucia hutchins. >> that's the teacher. >> that's the teacher, god rest her soul. >> and she saved your life. >> well, she did. she introduced me to the theater, and i won a contest. i got a scholarship to college because of her $100 a long time ago. yeah, and then i. then i won an academy award. >> that. that does just like that. thanks. yeah. joe. joe would love to jump into the conversation. >> oh, where is he? >> he's right there. >> right there. >> he. >> right, right here. you know me, mika. will will interview women, 50 over 50 women who are

over over 50. she has a 50 over 50 list. and she interviews women who are who are always surprised by how they're still going. she interviewed michelle yeoh last week. but but you you've said before when people ask why do you keep acting? you go, this is what i do. you said you thought you'd be dead when you were 60, but here you are in your 80s and you haven't slowed down. how important is that to you? well. it's everything. >> i don't know what i do with i couldn't work. yeah. can you imagine being, you know, in five years i'll be 90 if i make it. and i don't feel like i'm going to stop. you know, i it's also good luck. and also i take care of myself. you know, you have t. >> you. >> you you. >> do you do so talk about for you what what was the secret to

your, your career? i mean, we, we hear people always saying, oh, you've got to be true to yourself. that's the only thing that matters. i'm and i'm sure it is. i'm wondering though, what would you say, what would you say to young actors about when do you know to trim your sails? when do you know to say hell no. when do you know to just go straight toward the north star? >> you got to love it. you really have to love it. you can't just simply like it. it's what they say about new york city. you can't like it, but you have to love it because it's so damn hard. >> yes. >> but also, you got to have a good time. don't take it too seriously. i mean, you know, it's serious enough. it's like this life. you got to find the joy in it. and if you can't, you better get out because it is never going to get easy. >> so what would you be doing if you weren't acting? >> i. i there's always someplace for me to work. that's one of the things about new york city.

i'm willing to work for nothing. i did it first for a long time. i'll do children's theater. i'll do anything. i have to work. i love it. >> so i know this segment is about your broadway show, beckett briefs, which everyone should see, which is playing at the irish repertory theater through march 9th. but i think this is a segment about positivity, too, and just joy, because that's the your love of what you do. yeah, just is keeps you going forever. >> can i mention the broadway show i'll be doing next year at the end of this year? >> what are you doing? >> kristin chenoweth and i are going to be on broadway singing and dancing. >> stop! >> yeah, it's going to be the queen of versailles. we did it in boston. big success. it'll be happening at the end of the year. >> i'll have what he's having. >> have him come back and wear the same sweater. >> will you bring her and definitely wear the sweater. if you don't wear the sweater, i'll be very upset. that does it for us this morning. f murray abraham, thank