about tiktok and the american government going after that app because it is a chinese company. this is a chinese ai company that is now being downloaded by americans on their phones. could that lead to a national security question as well? that does remain to be seen. but again, the nasdaq having a pretty bad day on wall street down over 3% this morning. jose. >> brian chung, thank you so very much. and that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. you can always reach me on social media at jd balart, and you can watch clips from our show at youtube at msnbc.com. slash jdb. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. >> right now. on andrea mitchell reports. the trump white house ramping up immigration operations across the country. in chicago, denver, los. >> angeles as. >> mr. trump threatens colombia with 25% tariffs for blocking military planes with deportees before colombia backed down, narrowly avoiding a tariff war. also, bipartisan criticism for the white house firing 18

inspectors general without 30 days notice, as required by law, while the president creates new tensions in the middle east by saying that they should clean out gaza by moving most of the palestinians there to neighboring egypt and jordan. and i'll speak to the man who wrote the book on elon musk as the world's richest man ignites even more controversy following his remarks to a far right political party in germany. good day everyone. i'm andrea mitchell. in washington, immigrant communities are on edge as multiple federal agencies combine forces on targeted operations across the country with a coordinated effort to get maximum publicity for the crackdown. on sunday alone, ice arrested nearly 1000 people, the most in a single day by the one week old trump administration. almost 2700 people have been taken into custody since the president was

inaugurated, border czar tom homan telling nbc news gabe gutierrez that the majority have criminal records, including gang members and murderers. but undocumented immigrants with no violent or criminal record are also being swept up in these raids. during sunday's operations in chicago, homan told gutierrez that he blames local policy for what he calls collateral arrests. >> in a sanctuary city. if we can't get the bad guy into jail, we're going to go to the community and find them, which we're doing today.llegally. they're going to. so if you want less agents and less collateral, let me in jail. i don't have a quota. my instructions to them arrest as many as you can that are public safety threats and watch somebody else illegally here. they're coming to. >> in washington. the white house is declaring victory after its tariff and visa threats ended, a short lived international standoff with a major latin american partner over deportation flights. colombia has backed down. the trump administration says

they've agreed to trump's terms on accepting those flights using military aircraft, not the chartered flights used by previous administrations. we begin with nbc news white house correspondent vaughn hillyard, traveling ahead of the president's trip or his his meetings in doral, florida, i should say, and nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley here in washington. vaughn, the president is fulfilling his promises. he's also flexing his muscles with u.s. allies in latin america. >> right. >> we are going to hear from president trump for the first time since a standoff with colombia's president and other officials. this is a moment for president trump, where he is going to set to speak to the house gop conference here at his doral property. and after a 24 hours in which donald trump levied 25% tariffs on goods that were set to come from colombia into the united states, including the flower and coffee market, and that was in response

to gustavo petro, the president of colombia, rejecting two u.s. military aircraft that were in route to the country with deportee migrants that had been caught by u.s. ice officials. as part of this first wave of efforts to track down undocumented criminals and send them back to their native countries, and in response to the rejection of those military aircrafts, president trump levied not only those tariffs, but also visa sanctions. there are questions through the course of these first weeks of the administration, the extent to which president trump would actually implement those tariffs on the likes of mexico and canada, he has threatened to issue those as soon as the beginning of february. but china as well, he didn't do that on day one. but the quick, surprising response to issuing these tariffs against colombia caught many from both countries off guard. initially, the colombian president said that the migrants should not be treated as criminals and that as

they have in past administrations, they would take undocumented immigrants from the united states if they were brought on civilian aircrafts. but late yesterday evening, effectively standing down, apparently, to the trump administration's demand, as caroline leavitt, the press secretary to president trump, said, this was a clear signal that america is back in the days of appeasement, in her words, are over. >> and we should also note that colombia has been a major u.s. ally on the drug war on farc, the, you know, leftist terrorist group, really, that has been plaguing that area on neighboring venezuela. so this came out of the blue to the colombian president, and there was a significant, significant fallout from that. the colombian president has apparently called an urgent meeting of latin american allies for this thursday on all of this. julia, how are these immigration raids or operations playing out?

because they seem to be very eager to get a lot of publicity for them. that's absolutely shock and awe on the immigration front, right? >> that's absolutely right. >> they wanted. >> shock and awe. >> and they were a. >> little slow. >> to start. i think a lot of us. expected to see raids as early as trump's inauguration day or on tuesday. we know they had plans to do that, but look, what they came. into was an agency with a shortfall, with a shorter budget. >> and so now what we. >> understand, because they've been able to. pull in manpower from across the. federal government, especially those doj agencies like the marshals and atf and fbi, they've been able to expand their manpower. >> and so. >> this is all. >> what i. >> understand is that all. hands on deck. nationwide surge. >> that. >> we're going to see. playing out over. >> the next week and. possibly into the weeks to come. there are a lot of cities, a lot of names that. gets thrown around. >> sometimes those stick, sometimes they don't. the plans change, i think. andrea, the key thing to look at is how long can they sustain this surge. you mentioned. >> the nearly. >> 1000 arrests that happened

yesterday. that was because more agents left their field offices and flew to those cities that you named. >> chicago being the biggest. >> one, where they really put a lot of emphasis on making arrests there of criminals. and as homan told gabe gutierrez, they're arresting some people who aren't criminals as well, because whoever's there when they make the arrest, if they can't show proper documentation, they they get them arrested as well. so now what comes next? just because someone is arrested doesn't mean they get deported. they may have the opportunity to appeal that. go before an immigration judge make a case for why they should stay here. they have to be detained. that can be incredibly expensive. ice is only funded for so many beds, and then they have to be deported. and as we've seen over the weekend, that can be easier said than done. >> vaughn hillyard, julia ainsley, thank you both so much. we really appreciate it. and here with me now, it's his first interview since leaving ice two weeks ago. former ice acting director p.j. lechleitner. p.j, thanks very much for being with

us. >> thank you. >> for having me. because, you know, you have ground truth on all of this. first of all, how unusual is this? they've stepped it up, and this was a campaign promise. and secondly, i was going to ask you how how can the budget handle this? is this a this is expensive. >> it is. i mean, it's. >> resource there's. >> resource costs to this. >> and they're going to have. >> to get some resources on this. >> but the. >> administration seems. >> to. >> be very focused on. this from the policy. >> from the previous administration to this current administration. they've changed and refocused the priorities and the policies. and this is all in accordance with the ina. i mean, it's in accordance with law. they can they can choose to be more aggressive, more muscular with their enforcement activities. it's nice to see the people of ice getting the support they need to do the work that they're being asked to do. it's nice to see the administration really doing an interagency support network for that, because it's just too much for, for, for ice to do on its own and have doj collaborate with that. it's really good to see that federal collaboration and work and these are, you

know, targeted operations. and you've heard before the officials say it's you know, the borders are tom homan. it's these are being prioritized. you know, public safety, national security. however, you know, if they find other individuals that are collateral arrests that are here, that are, you know, here, you know, undocumented, illegally, then they'll they'll pick them up as well when they're doing it. but what i'm seeing here is something that has been done all the time. there's a little more press on this. they're doing a lot of it, and it's and they're rolling it out. and as the administration promised, they're doing it. >> well, let me ask you about something that tom homan let me play first, what tom homan also said to gabe gutierrez, where he's criticizing city policies that stop ice from doing these operations. >> what if the politicians, the mayor and the governor would just simply work with us and let us in that jail to arrest the bad guy in the jail is safer for the officer or safer for the alien. it's safer for the community. i don't get it. >> was this something you

experienced? >> absolutely. and i couldn't agree with tom more on this. like, it's so much safer if we can just cooperate with them. i've always been on the record saying we should have no air gap between federal law enforcement and state and local law enforcement. it is safer for the community if we can just do a handoff with them and respecting, you know, their needs as well. but it's when they release people and don't tell us what what occurred. in my experience, all of a sudden, these these individuals are very difficult to identify. they're in the community now. we have to get a fugitive operations team together and go out and try and find them. and any law enforcement enforcement mission that's in the community like that can be dangerous. and it's better if we can just do it when we know that they're safe, they're unarmed. there's no issues in a, you know, in a jail facility. i couldn't agree more with that. >> was this a crisis because the numbers had been coming down. they were at sort of record lows compared to the past, and certainly the highs in the beginning of the administration, the biden administration. so was there the need for this kind of a major crackdown?

>> well, the administration ran on this and they won. and that's their policy. i you know, i don't, you know, policy change. i'm an operator. i'm a law enforcement official. we're going to go carry it out. we'll say that the numbers were very high. i wish they had gone in and done some work. you know, earlier i went on record to get those tweaks so that it would have gone down. it was high for a long, long time. and the non-detained docket, those individuals we know of was well over 8 million people out there. and it just it was overwhelming the capabilities of ice to do so. it's nice to see us taking this seriously and going at it. but i want to say it's in accordance with the law and the policies change because the administration changed. >> what about this focus on the urban areas? there are also undocumented, unauthorized people in the rural areas. they're critical to the farm operations. that's what the ag community has been complaining. they don't seem to be doing this in rural areas. they said to do it in urban areas for show. >> i think they have to rack and stack these operations because

you only have so many assets. even though we have d.o.j. collaborating much more, and you have the defense department with the removal flights you've seen, there's only so much we don't have, you know, millions of federal agents running around. we have to decide where it's best and targeted operations to go at it. and the cities and urban areas are logical choice to start. but you're going to see this move out and you're going to see different areas be targeted as well. >> let me ask you about your your own situation. you're in law enforcement officer. >> it used to be you retired. >> were you planning to retire or did you have to were you civil service? what was your category? >> no, i was eligible for a couple of years, and i agreed under the biden administration with the secretary to stay as the acting because we did not have a confirmed director. but i had been trying to retire for a little while, and it was time for me to go at the end of the year. >> so you were not being pushed out or. >> absolutely not. no, i know, i know tom and i know caleb, who took over for ice, and i was confident that they know the agencies, they know the mission. and it was my goal to transition whoever was going to come in.

but policy change, people can disagree on the policies and how, you know, muscular or enforcement minded people want to be versus not. however, i was confident the men and women of ice and dhs writ large generally were going to be taken care of by the new people coming in. >> do you think that they can keep doing this? do they have the money to do this, at this, at this rate? >> well, it's going to require a lot of resources. so as i mentioned before, we're funded currently unless it hasn't changed so far 41,500 beds. and they're asking for a lot, a lot more than that, which, you know, if it's 80,000, basically it's double. it's 120,000 is triple. my napkin math. but it's going to require a lot of money to keep this up and sustain it. and that's where congress comes in. so congress is going to have to get this through appropriations, because we've got to find that money from somewhere. >> and how do you feel about the hospitals, the schools, the churches, which had been off limits before as sanctuaries? >> yeah, the policy of the previous administration, biden

administration, was that they they had sensitive locations and they did not, did not want us conducting operations. their new administration comes in and changes that policy. and, as you know, remove those restrictions. i don't think you're going to be seeing a lot of, you know, target operations, though, in churches or places of worship or schools or whatever, unless there's a real operational and public safety, national security need to do so. >> it's completely discretionary and it has caused fear in the community. >> it may be it may be causing some angst, but it is discretionary. and it is it is something that is possible given whatever operational need that's out there. but it's not something that was not possible before. it was just a policy decision. >> okay. thank you so much. >> thank you andrea. >> appreciate it. appreciate it here. and coming up, president trump's firing of 18 inspectors general, the watchdogs raising new legal questions, new concerns from republican lawmakers as well as democrats. that's next. when we return, it's andrea mitchell reports. it's andrea mitchell reports. we'll be back in swiffer duster traps 4x more dust,

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more. the move did not impact the inspectors general at justice or the department of homeland security. there are a lot of questions surrounding the legality of these firings. lawmakers are demanding an explanation. joining me now, reuters white house correspondent jeff mason, boston globe senior opinion writer kimberly atkins, store and cohost of the weekend right here on msnbc. former republican national chairman michael steele. so, jeff, the inspector general act of 2022, and i believe that amendment was pushed forward by none other than senator grassley, who's the chair of the judiciary committee. this requires a 30 day notice to congress before these igs can be fired. so it seems to me, and i've talked to lawyers, i've talked to senators over the weekend. this is just basically a violation of a law that congress passed. and congress is asking a lot of questions about this. >> including senator grassley. >> and you. >> were right to. >> mention him. >> and that's a. republican ally normally of a republican white house. >> but he he said specifically

that that 30 day period obviously. >> was not given. and if. >> there was a. >> clear reason. >> for having done this, firings that hasn't been identified. >> yet by the white house. >> so it was clearly an effort by the president to get rid of folks who are charged with being independent and having an. independent job. and at least the message that they're sending with this right now is. >> that that's not. >> what they want. >> and it's a big question, open question of what kind of people they would then put in. >> absolutely. and they haven't. >> given any details about. >> who they. >> would put. >> in and when. somebody would be put in. >> but the. >> question of the legality. >> is certainly. >> going to be hanging. >> over that move. and the fact that there are questions coming, not just. >> from. >> democrats who. >> are. outraged by. >> this move, but by. >> republicans. >> is particularly. >> at a. >> time of high political capital. >> for president trump. >> that is telling. >> senator grassley, of course, who was chairing the pam bondi hearings, will be doing the kash patel fbi hearings. kimberly. so what can congress do? do they have to get a temporary, you know, injunction to get them

back on the job for this period or are their hands tied? because it seems to me this is sort of basic read the law. >> it is basic law. i think at best, any remedy that is available and again, we are in uncharted territory, so we don't know exactly what that process might even look like because it hasn't happened before. but any remedy would just be at most enforcement of that 30 day wait period. and potentially, you know, the administration having to give some sort of explanation as to why each of these inspector inspectors general were removed. we might see inspector generals, inspectors general themselves, try to resist. it's still early days to find out that, but it's really important to understand why this is important. inspector generals were put. inspectors general were put in these agencies post-watergate to ensure that there is not fraud and

corruption, and to give an independent eye to ensure to help these agencies enact ethics rules to keep these agencies operating with transparency and without the very thing that the trump administration says they want to do, which is to do things donald trump's way. that is not how these agencies are supposed to operate. but given that you have enough, i'm guessing republican support from people like lindsey graham who are just saying, you know, it's just a technicality, nothing to see here. i wonder if there will be any remedy for this except for shedding light like we are trying to do now about why this process was in place, what it means, and what having no accountability at the top of these organizations to anybody but donald trump could mean in the future. >> and elections have consequences. but, michael, we're also hearing that they are drilling down in a lot of these departments to very low level of moving people out. they have

said the president elect when he was first running has talked about this, and it was certainly in what, you know, they were being given by these conservative think tanks to get rid of even civil service protections and create a new category which could permit them to put more political people in. >> yeah, it's. >> all of that was laid out in this document. >> i don't know if anybody is. familiar with it or maybe they haven't heard. >> of it. >> project 2025 i think it was. >> i think it was. >> i think all of this was spelled out in that. i'm not sure if the american people are aware of it. or the media or politics, but yeah, there's the playbook right there. the other part of. >> this, which is rather amusing. is that. the ig's. a good. >> number of the ig's. >> the. >> 18 that were fired or, you know. >> illegally removed were appointed by trump in the last

in the during his last administration. >> so these. >> are ig. you know, ig said he's not unfamiliar with his team, is not unfamiliar with. but somehow i guess they've become corrupted because they served in their independent capacity in the last four years. during the biden administration. the politics of this is rife. this is not about good government. so let's disabuse ourselves of that. lindsey graham proved that with his sort of flippant off the you know, it's no big deal. it's just a technicality. the law is just a technicality, america. it is not to be fired or followed. it is to be experienced. however, donald trump decides to experience it. so yes, the idea is to drill down as far as they can within the government to pull out people who are longtime public servants, who've been there for many administrations, republican and democrat, who are now disposable and replace them

with people who. and here's how donald trump operates, who if donald trump wanted to pick up the phone and call the undersecretary of the assistant undersecretary of the undersecretary, right that far down the chain, he could do that, and the person would do what he tells him to do. that's the that's the level of commitment they're looking for from these new public servants. >> and, michael, you're absolutely right that a lot of this is coming from project 2025. and a lot of that was written by russell. vote, vote vote. yes. vote. the correct pronunciation. who is the new rm omb director? who will decide whether any law that is passed, how it's going to be implemented? because what the financial implications are and whether it fits with administration policy. that's right. in any case, what they've also done is stopped foreign aid now temporarily supposedly. but in the instance of a major health and humanitarian aid

organization that's providing food to gaza as part of this hostage deal care, it's a third of their budget. yeah, it is a massive cut. and they've accepted israel and egypt from direct foreign aid, not the nongovernmental organizations, but not taiwan, not ukraine. and these include military sales. >> it's a massive disruption, and. >> it has. >> global risks, and it has risks as well to for the united states. i mean, there is controversy about foreign aid, and that's something that republicans touch on during campaigns. >> it's a tiny part of the of the budget. but let me just point out. very tiny, that in every administration, there have been bipartisan majorities who have increased the request of both donald trump back then and of joe biden in this budget year. and the logic behind. >> putting that. >> money in. >> is to. avoid future problems that the united states will have to deal with later, be it. >> in public.

>> health or be it. in in safety and other and other areas. so it's. >> it's a tough one for. >> people to it's going to be an incredible week here, especially with these very controversial. confirmation, controversial confirmation hearings coming up wednesday and thursday. we're going to see tulsi gabbard, kash patel and rfk jr, jeff mason, kimberly atkins store, michael steele, thank you, bob. thank you all. and next, how israel's arab neighbors are responding to president trump's unexpected call to clean out gaza. in comments on air force one coming back from nevada saturday night. back from nevada saturday night. you're watching andrea mitc upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life

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and jordan to take in a million and a half palestinians who live in gaza. >> i'd like egypt to take people and i'd. >> like jordan. >> to take people. i could you're talking about probably a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing. >> of course, the cease fire deal calls for a withdrawal of israel from gaza and to have an arab security force and palestinian leadership there. egypt and jordan have rejected the idea of taking in a million and a half people from gaza. they're, of course, worried that a flood of refugees could

destabilize their countries. also this weekend, four israeli female soldiers were released by hamas and were reunited with their families in a joyful, joyful moment. but not an israeli civilian woman whom they had been promising to release so for hours. israel, in response to that, refused to let palestinian families return to their homes in the in the north, as had been promised under that complicated deal. finally, hamas agreed to release adel ehud thursday. this coming thursday. so the palestinians were allowed to start moving back. three more hostages are also expected to be released on saturday. that is raising hopes that 65 year old american keith segal could be one of them. he would be the first american hostage to be released in this group since the cease fire. joining us now, nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez. so, raf, all of your coverage saturday as this was touch and go was extraordinary. let's talk more now about the comments that president trump made about

removing the palestinians from gaza, which has been their home. what impact would that have on the us relationship with egypt and jordan? the deputy prime minister and the foreign minister safadi, spoke out strongly against it in jordan last night. >> so, andrea, you mentioned in your last segment that the trump administration has cut foreign aid to almost everywhere in the world except for israel and except for egypt. and the reason there's been an exception for egypt is because the stability of that country of 100 million people, by far the largest arab country in the middle east, is considered a core u.s. national security priority. it is seen as key to israeli security. and yet you have president trump, apparently in a sort of offhand manner, in a conversation with reporters on air force one, casually suggesting that three quarters of the population of gaza, some 1.5 million people could head to egypt, could head

to jordan. and exactly as you said, very firm and immediate rejections of that idea from the jordanian and the egyptian leadership, saying it is a total nonstarter to say nothing of the palestinians who are saying that having suffered for so long, 15 months in gaza, but also for a people whose kind of national trauma, if you will, is being displaced from their homes and not allowing not being allowed to return. they are saying they are not going anywhere. so these comments, made apparently offhand and perhaps in good faith by president trump, who is suggesting that these people could leave while reconstruction got underway in gaza, as you say, causing a diplomatic firestorm here in the middle east. andrea. >> thank you so much. raf sanchez, it's a. it's not even the policy of the israeli government other than two ministers, smotrich and ben-gvir. so somebody was parroting really radical ideas there to the president,

apparently. in any case, joining us now is michael levy and his brother, or levy is being held captive by hamas. he was kidnaped from the nova music festival on october 7th. his wife anna was murdered by hamas. so, michael, thank you for joining us. so much tragedy in your family, so much pain for more than 15 months. and now, what is your hope that he finally might be released and you might see your brother? >> after so. >> so much time, it feels. >> for the. >> first time that we had hope that we. >> have something to. >> to live for, to. wake up in the morning. >> and. >> and expect. >> but at the same. >> time we are worried sick about this deal falling through

and being disappointed again. it happened. >> so many. >> times before and we cannot rest until we actually. >> hug. >> all, you know. >> with our own hands. >> what do you know about his condition? >> yeah, we know that he was. kidnaped alive. as you can see from the picture, and thrown in the back of a pickup truck. and we know that the idf assumes he is alive. and the recent hamas past. probably confirms it. so we have hope that we'll see him soon. >> your brother has a three year old son. talk to me about this little boy and how he's doing. >> has been through the worst. i

think that's the worst thing a parent can imagine. he lost his mother. he is practically an orphan because he's 15 months without his father. and he had to go to life milestones without any of his parents. and. and now we started to somehow prepare him to the possibility that he's coming back, that he will see his father. >> you've watched some of these hostages come home in recent days. so i'm assuming that that brings you some hope. have you gotten any official word because they're supposed to give israel the names of the hostages that are going to come out next? have you heard anything about your brother now? >> no. unfortunately, we do not know anything. and no one knows

exactly when all will be released. and we have a deadline. we have a deadline. at least we know that if this deal won't fall through, we'll see him somewhere between 3 to 5 weeks. and it helps. but once again, we are worried sick from the fact that this deal won't be completed. >> well, we can't even imagine what you and your family have gone through so far with. just hope, michael, that there will be some some good news very soon and that you'll be seeing him perhaps as soon as this saturday. >> thank you so much. >> and next we'll have a live report from poland. where? auschwitz. auschwitz victims are being honored. it's 80 years on holocaust remembrance day after

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they can commemorate it. and capture the horror, as well as the resilience of those who tried to survive. >> andrea, no matter how many images we look at from these infamous places, nothing illuminates the horror like the words of the survivors. and we are fortunate enough to still have dozens of them speaking out. and here, although it is only estimated that there are around 1000 auschwitz survivors still alive, many of them joined by world leaders, and you can see king charles among them there. those world leaders were not invited to speak, just to listen, along with the rest of us, to hear these survivors proclaim never again, in hopes that this never happens again. one of the one of the survivors who spoke was tova friedman. she speaks of this day, which is the liberation day of auschwitz, as a second birthday for her. here's part of what she shared at the ceremony a short time

ago. >> all my little friends. were rounded. up and driven to their deaths. >> while the. >> heartbreaking cries. of their. >> parents fell on. >> deaf ears. >> after all. >> the children. >> were gone and the courtyard was empty. i thought to myself, am i the only jewish child left in the world? shortly thereafter, we were loaded into cattle cars. >> the same kind of cattle cars that you were just speaking of, andrea. and for people who are not familiar with what we're talking about, this was known as the selection process, an area that was called the jew camp, where hundreds of thousands of families stepped off of train

cars, where they were not given food, they did not have a bathroom, there was little to no ventilation. and these people were immediately separated. and as opposed to getting sympathy, children, the elderly, the disabled were among those that were instantly singled out to be sent to the gas chambers. one of the things that kept children briefly alive was if they were twins, because the nazis then conducted experiments on them, and all of these people were sent to a gas chamber, they were then burned so their remains could not be used as evidence. but the proof is still here. there are piles of glasses, of shoes, of suitcases. and once again. andrea, there are the words and the memories from those survivors warning us all. andrea. >> jesse, thank you so much for being there and for the remembrance which is so important. and up next, elon musk sparking more controversy after comments to a far right political party in germany.

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has denied that categorically. and joining me now is professor and author walter isaacson, who spent two years following elon musk for his best selling book, elon musk and is a professor at tulane university. so i'm wondering, from your understanding of him, what is it about the far right anti-immigration views that seem to attract elon musk? because germany has a law, has laws, policies of don't forget, remember fighting anti-semitism? i've been there and done stories on this. so what he's saying to them about, you know, don't pay attention to what happened is contradictory to german policy. >> i think. >> that musk, in my book. >> that. >> chapter is called the rabbit hole. you see him really. embracing a. >> somewhat conspiracist. populist, nativist, nationalist, anti-immigrant. >> philosophies. >> and i. think it builds up

throughout. >> his life. >> his father. >> and his. >> grandparents on his mother's side all had those ways. and as you know, andrea, you see this all around the world at the moment. this nativist, populist, nationalistic. sometimes called right wing, although i'm not quite sure what wings it truly belongs to. and it's happening with the afd in germany. but of course, it's happening with marine le pen. and in france. the rumblings of. it are basically deeply anti-immigration in terms of massive asylum seeking immigrants. but in most cases, it's combined, as you know, with the desire for legal immigrants, those who get h-1b visas, those who are engineers. so i think that his views, you can see it in the book throughout his life,

starting to embrace this sense, but it's not all that unusual from what's happening around the world today with this populist, nativist, anti-immigration sentiments. >> except for, of course, the anti-semitism suggested here as well, and that he has a white house office. he has more influence on the president of the united states and more contracts were very many contracts, defense contracts and others. so it raises questions about his his power right now over donald trump. how do you explain that? because when you were reporting on him, he was not in love with donald trump? >> no, he was not in love with donald trump. i think he called donald trump in my book, you know, a charlatan and a con man. and then he said, you know, but he reminds me of my father. and musk has a very complex relationship with his own father. they don't speak,

really, but his father has that same type of very, i would say, conspiracist and extreme views and is a fabulist. and so it's an interesting tale. ever since musk was a kid being beaten up and psychologically abused by his father, beaten up by other kids when he was young, he fantasizes being the x-man, the person coming in to try to save humanity. and now he's bonded with donald trump, especially on the pursuit of cutting back regulations, cutting federal spending, and streamlining things. there are a lot of other people in the trump orbit who embrace a sort of populist nativism, such as steve bannon, but you see a split within the trump community where bannon was

trying to get rid of elon musk. because, you know what? elon musk is part of that tech utopianism that steve bannon and others reject. >> well, musk seems to be coming out on top in just every area. ramaswamy is off to run for political office in ohio. he's got sole control over the budget cuts. do you have concerns about writ large the conflicts of interest, as well as the power of someone like elon musk and others who are. >> elon musk. >> from the front row of the inaugural, you know. >> absolutely. all of them sitting right in front of the cabinet, not sitting in front of the commerce secretary. so, yeah, an inordinate amount of power. i think what worries me the most is that elon musk is

used to operating not only in the private sphere, but the very private sphere where he controls spacex. he he controls tesla, he owns neuralink and pretty much owns his ai company, x i. and so he can take extraordinary risks. and those risks sometimes pay off. he's the only person being able to launch rockets and then land them upright with the mechazilla arms catching him. so he's been able to recreate the internet in outer space. if you look at some of the things the federal government tried to do, i think it was spending $40 billion or so on broadband internet access, and it's connected zero people. whereas musk's starlink is connected millions. so these things happen. but yeah, i'm concerned because to do so he's got to break things and he's got to take extraordinary risks. and he doesn't own the federal government. so it means that

unlike in his private companies, this is going to be a lot harder. >> walter isaacson, extraordinary insight into this very controversial figure. thank you very much. and that does it for us for this edition of andrea mitchell reports. chris jansing report starts after a jansing report starts after a short my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis held me back. but now with skyrizi, i'm all in. thanks to skyrizi, i saw dramatically clearer skin. and many even achieved 100% clear skin. don't use if allergic. serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lowered ability to fight them may occur. before treatment, get checked for infections and tb. tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms, or vaccines. with skyrizi, nothing on my skin means everything. ask your dermatologist about skyrizi today. what the biggest companies deliver is an exceptional customer experience. what makes it possible is unmatched connectivity and 5g solutions from t-mobile for business. t-mobile connects 100,000 delta airlines employees,

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