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>> new york. >> as we come on the air. >> the old saying. >> elections have. >> consequences is playing out. >> in very real. >> time, in a very. >> real way. >> in cities. >> all across. >> our country, as the trump administration makes good. >> on one. >> of trump's most controversial campaign promises, a promise. >> that was immortalized. in that sea of signs at the. >> republican national. >> convention. >> mass deportations. now, one week into. >> trump's. >> second term, it's no longer an. >> abstract idea. or controversial. >> campaign promise. >> or even a. >> convention sign. the deportations are underway. over the weekend. >> we saw. >> them in cities like. >> chicago. >> a city trump's border czar, tom homan, has repeatedly taunted, calling. chicago ground. zero for mass deportations. >> in all. >> ice made. >> 956 arrests. >> on sunday in chicago. >> and around the country. >> quote the largest. >> single day. >> number to date by. >> the trump administration and at least 2681. >> arrests since his. >> inauguration last monday.

>> those numbers. >> may or may not tell the whole story. it is an open. >> question how trump's mass deportations. >> will ultimately. >> stack up. >> against previous administrations. but one thing that is not an open question. >> one thing. >> we don't. >> have to wonder about is. >> how it feels. >> if you are undocumented. >> in america. right now, or even if you worry that you. >> could be mistaken. >> for being. undocumented because of. >> the color. >> of your skin or your name. this is a headline out of chicago. >> quote. we are terrified. >> the new. >> york times spoke. >> with one. >> man, a. >> man who. >> was born in this. >> country, who said this quote. >> i can. >> tell. >> you that even. >> for those of us who are. >> citizens or have a green card, there's fear. i'm scared myself. not that i'll be deported because i was born here, but i'm scared. >> that i. >> may get. scooped up in a mass arrest. that fear of mass arrests and disorientation. >> and uncertainty. >> is not.

>> an unintended. consequence or a design flaw. >> of trump's mass deportations. >> it is the. design feature. >> it is exactly what the trump administration intends. and you don't. >> have to take our word for it. >> because. >> as usual, the trump. >> administration is. >> saying. the quiet part out loud. >> here's vice president jd vance. >> we empowered. >> law enforcement to enforce. the law everywhere to protect americans. >> but a chilling effect, arguably. >> do. people to not send. >> their. >> kids to school? >> i desperately hope. >> it has. >> a chilling effect on. >> illegal immigrants. >> the u.s. conference of. >> i desperately hope it has. >> a chilling effect. >> there you have it. >> the cruelty. >> the intended fear, the. >> intended confusion. the intended. >> chaos is. >> the point. >> it's their objective. >> it's also. >> where we start. >> today with nbc news. >> national correspondent. >> and executive producer of the. >> documentary film. >> separated. >> jacob soboroff. jacob, first tell. >> me what's going on all across

the country. start with. >> chicago. >> i think. nicole. >> what what we. see is what we see. the facts on the ground are the facts on the ground. they are carrying out deportation efforts. immigration enforcement operations, to use the specific. >> terminology that. >> the department of. >> homeland security uses. >> but whether or not what we're witnessing is the largest mass deportation. >> in. >> american history is still, if. >> not up. >> for debate. >> a story that is yet to be written. there is a major show. >> of. >> force going on across the country, started by the trump administration to create the perception that immigration enforcement is out in the streets all across the united states of america. and i think that it's important to note that that is indeed happening. and there are people being deported, likely, as you and i are speaking right now, back. >> to their. >> home countries. i think it's also important. >> to underline. >> that what we have seen play out in chicago.

>> and atlanta. >> and in phoenix and in denver and in los angeles and in cities throughout texas over the course of this weekend, are also enforcement operations that have played out historically in the united states of america, both under. president trump's predecessor, joe biden. >> and president. >> trump's predecessor in his first. >> term, president obama. >> who. >> deported more. >> people than any president in the history of the. >> united states of america. there are certainly differences that we have seen play out, including the mobilization of the u.s. armed forces like the military, the. >> marines. >> for instance, we've seen down on the southwest border, but they are playing limited enforcement roles in these circumstances. and in the interior. though you have seen agencies like, like dea join forces with other homeland security. agencies like homeland security investigations and ice and atf participate in this type of enforcement action. as you said, there is certainly an effect that's happening here that people are aware of this, that they're cognizant of it. but what's sort of the larger

what the larger story is here is, as i said, i think it's important to understand and for people to remain cognizant of it has yet to be written. and these are unfolding on sort of a day by day, almost hour by hour basis now. >> so i want to i want to press and. >> try to deepen my. >> own. >> understanding of. >> what's different, other than the production of it. >> i want to share. >> some some reporting. >> about quotas. >> this is from the. >> washington post. >> ice officials have. >> been directed by trump officials to. aggressively ramp up the. >> number of people. >> they arrest. from a few hundred. >> per day to at least 1200 to 1500. because the president. >> has been disappointed with the results. >> of his mass deportation. >> campaign so far. that's according to four. >> people with knowledge of the briefings. >> senior ice officials were told that each of the. agency's field offices. >> should make 75. >> arrests per day, and managers will be held. >> accountable for missing those targets. >> so, i. >> mean, quotas. >> do make. >> it more. likely that.

>> the thing that people who are here legally, who spoke in that reporting i read from could get swept up. if you're trying to hit a target in any quota in law enforcement, speeding. >> anything. >> you can make mistakes. and i wonder if the reporting. >> is out there. >> that the numbers didn't even match the numbers under the final biden numbers. >> and so i wonder if you can just tell me the role that the. >> statistics and the numbers are playing in the. policy and. >> and a policy of quotas. >> that seems to increase. >> the odds. >> of mistakes being made. >> well. >> you know, i don't want to use too strong of language here, but. whether or not they're obsessed with the numbers, they have made very clear they want the largest deportation effort in american history. mass deportation. now was what the sign said on the floor of the republican national convention. it was an official part of the party platform, a part of the trump campaign. and they're

certainly working hard to create the appearance of that. and like you said, in many respects, this is a production. doctor phil was out last night live with tom homan, who when the borders are for president trump, when he was confronted by our colleague gabe gutierrez about whether or not there are actually quotas. he denied that there were. but the numbers have certainly gone up from the day to day numbers of the outgoing administration. but whether or not and i think this is really important for people to understand whether or not these numbers that they have made a feature of their instagram posts and their social media, you know, twitter posts and stuff, whether or not those numbers stay consistent at this level is a function of how many. quote unquote, criminals they're going to go after. and if violent. >> criminals. >> people who pose a threat to society are their priority, what happens beyond those numbers? because certainly if you're going to run the largest mass deportation. effort in american

history, you are going to be picking up ppe day civilians in the united states of america who, while they might happen to be undocumented, are also. >> teachers. >> workers, neighbors, friends, people who are at your church. and that's, i think, part of this story as well, that they have removed the sensitive locations. guidance from the department of homeland security. so now undocumented immigrants and tom homan confirmed this to gabe gutierrez could very well be picked up at a school or a church or another location. he says it's a matter of national security, but you don't you don't stage the largest deportation effort in american history without undocumented migrants who don't have criminal histories. >> jacob soboroff, we're going to need you. please stay free at 4:00 eastern. thank you for your reporting on this. >> and, of course. >> the trump administration. >> says this is. >> just the beginning, the opening salvo, if you will. they've indicated that one of the next towns could that could be targeted could be aurora. >> colorado. >> where over the weekend. >> quote. >> hundreds of community members

gathered. >> in the snowy. >> cold saturday at fletcher plaza to protest donald trump's threat of mass deportations, a rally that drew as many as 700 immigrants, activists and allies. joining our coverage is democratic congressman. >> jason crow, who represents. >> aurora, colorado. first, what are you hearing from your constituents? >> well. >> nicole, i. >> represent one. of the most diverse communities. >> in the country, and i just want to. >> paint a picture for you. this is a community where. >> nearly 20% of. >> my constituents. >> were born outside of the. >> united states. >> i have 130 languages spoken in my public school system. right. >> and these folks are business owners. they go to school with my kids. >> they work. >> in our businesses. they are. >> so much a part of the. >> lifeblood and the strength. >> and the vibrancy. >> of our community. >> and they are. >> afraid. >> which is why. >> i'm standing. >> up and i'm being very. >> clear about. >> what we're going to tolerate and. >> what we won't. >> and i think this. is important for every american. >> right. now to. >> be really clear about what.

>> it is we're dealing with. >> i haven't heard. >> or talked. >> to anybody. >> who says we shouldn't deport and. detain violent criminals, that we shouldn't clean up our streets. and keep communities, keep our children safe. >> everybody agrees on that, and it's already a crime. >> what we're talking about. >> is a mass deportation, a. mass deportation. >> that's rounding. >> up everybody. >> children, families. business owners. and i. >> would like. >> somebody in the trump administration to explain. to me how doing that is actually. >> going to. >> reduce costs. >> help our businesses. help our communities, and make us more safe, because doing that will do the exact. >> opposite and they know it. >> so what is. >> the list. >> of what you will tolerate and will not for your district? >> well, i'm. >> not going to tolerate mass. >> deportation of efforts of children. >> and families. >> and people who. >> are striving. >> to. >> start a life here, who. >> want. >> to normalize. >> their. >> status within the united states. we owe. >> those folks. comprehensive immigration. >> reform, because.

>> that's in. >> our best interests of our economy. >> but i spend a lot of time with. >> small business owners. you know, colorado is a small business state. >> aurora is. >> a small business state. >> 85% of our. >> of our workers. and our. >> businesses are small businesses. >> in my community. right. >> and those folks. >> when i go and visit them, they say their number. >> one problem is workforce. >> they want to grow their businesses. >> they can't. find enough workforce. so we. >> owe comprehensive immigration reform. that's visas, that's daca programs, that's providing a pathway to citizenship. who are here, who own homes, who are already paying taxes to normalize their status because that's what they want to do. and that's what's in the best interest of our economy. but i won't tolerate. and what nobody should is violent. >> criminals, right? yes. >> go after violent criminals. it's already against the law. and guess what? we had a. bipartisan reform effort in congress last year that was heavily negotiated between republicans and democrats. that would have provided more enforcement, would have provided

more border. >> security, would have. provided pathways to citizenship. >> donald trump blew it up because he'd rather run a campaign on the problem than try to solve. >> the problem. >> so let's go back to that and actually talk real solutions and come together to solve this issue. instead of doing what they're doing and trying to distract america with mass deportation, deportations, while at the same time they're billionaires and the cronies and the top 1% are slowly turning our government into a piggy bank for their own pockets. >> what advice. would you give? or have. >> you given to a school superintendent. >> who asks you what they should do if ice agents show up or other federal agents? >> i had a meeting recently with my. school superintendents, and we talked about some of the issues that they're. >> dealing with, and. >> i'm not going to get into. >> too many. >> specifics, but one of the big problems that they're having. >> is, what. >> do you do. >> at the end. >> of a school day when they. >> release a child and there's nobody to. release that. >> child to? >> right. >> what do you do?

>> what do you do? >> that's what they're struggling. >> with right now. >> what's the answer? >> we don't know yet. >> right. because normally you would have emergency contact forms next. next of kin aunts and uncles. >> but they don't want. >> to keep those records. >> they don't. >> want to keep that. >> so we're working with them trying to figure out what they can do, what my office can be helpful in doing. but these are the types of real life. >> decisions that. >> people are dealing with. >> that that. >> is the human impact of this. >> call it what you. >> want mass deportations, roundups. real people are getting hurt, children. >> are. >> getting hurt, and it's being done in our name. and we should speak up and call it out because it's not helping our economy. it's not making us more safe. it's a moral stain on our country and our communities, and. >> it. >> also distracts from the real, comprehensive reform that this country needs. it's not going to address border security. it's not going to address the visa problems that plague our economy and our communities. >> i mean. >> do you.

>> look back. >> at. the last. >> four. >> years and wish that. >> the strong messages. you're delivering here. >> now about. >> aggressive deportation of. >> violent criminals. >> found to. >> have committed crimes. was more on the. >> minds of. >> voters when they. >> obviously and for. >> all the. >> things that trump has done over the last week. >> that you can debate. >> whether or not. >> people thought he. >> would actually. >> fire every. >> inspector general. i mean, i don't. >> know. >> maybe people didn't. >> know that that's. >> what he was going to do. but mass deportations is something he ran. >> on so brazenly. >> his supporters waved. >> signs that. >> said mass deportations now. and he won. >> is there any sort. >> of reflection on the part of the democratic party. >> about what parts of the. >> immigration message got. >> through. >> to the voters, and what. >> parts didn't? >> well, we certainly were pretty ardent about project 2025, calling this out as much as possible. and listen, donald trump and the folks that are making up his administration now campaigned. >> on costs, the cost. >> of eggs, the cost of. bacon is what vice president vance loves. >> to. >> talk about. they're doing

nothing on. >> anything up. >> they're going up. >> they've declared war on breakfast. >> here's something that i found really interesting. vice president vance did an interview over the weekend. >> can i interrupt you? >> and my question. >> was about whether. >> there's any reflection. >> if you're. >> part of any conversations. >> among democrats. i mean, what you. >> just. >> articulated is where the country is. 87% of all americans. >> in a new. >> york times poll just ahead of trump's. >> inauguration want what. you just said you want. >> which is that violent. >> criminals who. >> are. >> here illegally. >> are deported. >> do you. >> is there any reflective exercise in the democratic party to. try to understand why voters. >> didn't know that? that's where folks. >> like you. i can't speak writ large. >> for the democratic party, right? i can talk about myself. i can talk about the people that i spend time with in congress. >> but are there no meetings? >> i mean. >> are you. >> not are you. >> all not. >> getting together? >> absolutely. >> we are figure out what went wrong. >> i mean. >> absolutely, we're doing that right. you can't not win elections and not win a majority and be in this position and not do deep thought and introspection. >> and part of. >> that is we have to be serious about the deep anger and frustration across america.

listen, i grew up in a working class family. i worked fast food to help support my family in high school. i worked construction to put my way through college. right. and the frustration about the lack of access to the american dream is real with the people that i grew up with, the people that that i knew, the communities where i came from. i spent a good chunk of my youth in a small rural town, and it's rural towns like that that have been decimated. right. the american dream, the ability to afford a home, to put money away for retirement, to send your kids to college, the notion that your children and your grandchildren's life will be better than yours is out of reach, right? that is just not what's happening right now. and people are angry and justifiably upset about it. i'm upset about it. yeah, right. we spent 20 years fighting two wars, spending trillions of dollars, and the blood of my friends, in some cases. for what? right. so that is the frustration. and we have to come to terms with it.

and we've got to we've got to engage with that. >> but the. >> idea that that frustration. >> if x right. >> if that's the frustration, then. trump feels. >> like. >> giving up. i mean, he doesn't have an answer for any. >> of that pain. >> of course he doesn't have an answer for any of that pain. i mean, listen to what was happening over the weekend with vice president vance and vice president vance. and i actually have a lot in common growing up, right? we both grew up in working class families. we grew % joined the military. we deployed overseas. and that kind of ends. >> hilarious. yeah. >> because he went in a vastly different direction than i went in. right. and the lessons now he became a private equity person, and he speaks like a private equity person. you listen to what they say. this is an administration full of oil and gas executives, private equity people, big tech people. and you ask those folks what the answer is to the problem, and they'll tell you more oil and gas production, more tax cuts

for the wealthy. so we can have, you know, tax capital investment at the top. that's always what they say. that's always what they have said. trickle down economics. but guess what? it doesn't work. we know it doesn't work because we've tried it over and over again. and the last trump administration where they gave tax cuts for the top 1%, and they said that would trickle down over 80% of that went to stock buybacks and executive salaries. so of course they're not going to fix it. but what we know is that when you invest in people in education and infrastructure in the history of this country, it always makes people's lives better. that is our message. that is our answer. and we're going to talk about it and we're going to address abuses like this mass deportation effort. we're going to focus on public safety and border security and real solutions to immigration reform. and we're going to talk about reinvigorating the american dream. >> let me ask you one question. something that. >> broke. >> since we've been talking. acting attorney general james mchenry. terminated the.

>> employment of a number. >> of doj. officials who played a significant role in prosecuting. >> president trump in light of their actions. the acting. >> attorney general does not trust these officials to assist in faithfully. >> implementing the. >> president's agenda. the action is consistent. >> with the mission of. >> ending the weaponization. >> of government. >> you were on the floor of. >> the. >> house using some of your expertise and. experience serving the country in the military to protect your colleagues. what do you think? how do you feel about trump's efforts to erase. >> the insurrection. >> he incited that day? >> well, he wants to revise history. we know that. but america saw what happened to that day. i was trapped in the house gallery. i saw those police officers being brutally beaten. over 150 of them brutally beaten, several of whom lost their lives in the weeks and months after because of the trauma and the injuries that were incurred. now, listen, i actually get really close to those officers. us on capitol hill, they're always at the checkpoints. we get to know

them, we get to know their families. and after january 6th, one that i was particularly close to called me in tears and he said, sir, i'm sorry i let you down. i fought as hard as i could, but they just beat me and they stomped me. and he was just covered in bruises from head to toe. and he said, i feel like i let you down. i said, you did not let me down. you did not let any of us down. we're going to we're going to tell this story about what you did, your heroism. we're going to stand by you. so nobody in donald trump's administration, donald trump, nobody else, nobody else who justifies these blanket pardons can ever, in my book ever say they backed the blue can ever say they backed law enforcement or public safety. they don't care about public safety. they don't care about law enforcement. if they're willing to release 1500 violent criminals, many of whom, by the way, self-confessed pled guilty. >> pleaded guilty. >> didn't even contest the charges that now are walking free throughout our communities, including stewart rhodes, who is

charged with seditious conspiracy and actually convicted of seditious conspiracy and shows zero remorse for anything he did that day. these folks are walking free because donald trump set them free. >> i hope you'll come back. >> and continue. >> to work through these issues. >> and these. >> developments with. >> us, and. >> keep. >> us posted on how your constituents are doing in aurora as the. >> mass deportation. plan rolls, i. >> guess, to. >> to your to your district. thank you very. much for making time to talk to us today. >> thank you. >> jason. >> when we come back. >> as the congressman reminds. >> us, schools should be. and have. >> always been a safe haven for all kids in our country. but donald trump's deportation plans have changed that. >> how schools are adjusting. >> to keep their kids and their families safe and calm and learning. >> plus. >> as the world hears from some of the very last survivors of the nazi death camps. >> folks are imploring the world. >> never to forget the horrors of what happened. >> there are new signs. >> today, though. >> that another generation may not be listening to. those

warnings. and echoes of anti-semitism appear to be on the rise. later in. >> the broadcast. >> the friday night firing of a dozen and a. >> half apolitical. >> independent figures across government. >> we'll look at the message the new president is sending quite clearly that much more when deadline. white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. >> take a. >> breath of fresh air. >> with a. >> stanley steamer. >> air duct cleaning. we clean over 10,000,000ft. of air. ducts each year, with our specialized trucks built by us, removing the contaminants from your home. contaminants from your home. your air ducts a [monologue] i got somebody for that! ♪♪ i got somebody for that. ♪♪ i got somebody for that! you guys got somebody for peyronie's disease? ♪♪ there's hope for the estimated 1 in 10 men who may have peyronie's disease, or pd. a urology specialist who treats pd can help you create a plan— including nonsurgical options. find somebody today at gogetsomebody.com

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reinventing your business at paychex.com/tv. >> the first 100 days, it's a critical time for our country. and rachel maddow is on five nights a week. >> now is the time. >> so we're going to. >> do it. >> settle in. >> the rachel maddow show weeknights at 9:00 on msnbc. >> what we do. >> is try to cut. >> right to the bone of what we're seeing in washington that day. >> this policy would be an attack on the safety, dignity and innocence. >> of our children. >> and places them at risk in the very spaces that should be the safest, their schools. no child should have to carry the weight of fear in a classroom. no parent should have to hesitate. >> before sending.

>> their child to. >> school. questioning whether it is still. >> a safe. >> and trusted space. this is not. >> a political issue, it's a moral one. >> the question before. >> us as. >> well. >> that was in el paso school board member condemning the. >> trump administration's decision. >> to eliminate the policy that kept immigration and customs enforcement from conducting raids. >> at sensitive locations. >> that includes. >> hospitals, churches. >> and schools, including elementary schools. schools across the country have now braced themselves for trump's promised immigration raids. washington state school superintendent chris ragsdale noting that it doesn't just endanger the children of migrants. >> it is just not. >> the student of an undocumented. >> you know. >> person who's at risk. >> it's all. >> of. >> their peers. when. >> you know. >> folks bust in. >> and take. >> one of the children. >> out, that is an anxiety. >> that is permeating beyond just. the families directly. >> targeted. >> joining our conversation. >> is chris reykdal. >> washington state

superintendent for public instruction. and joining us. >> at the table, distinguished. >> political scholar and professor at princeton university. eddie glaude is here. chris, i'm i'm. >> the idea. >> that we're having a. conversation in this country. >> where all. the answers have been delivered. you had j.d. >> vance on. sunday confirming. >> that very young. >> children feeling afraid is the point. in that cbs interview with margaret brennan. where do we go from here? >> if the folks. >> in power. >> intend to. >> scare our children? >> i think. >> that's the hard question. >> thanks for. >> having me, nicole. >> not only that, stephen. >> miller. >> was back on cable news last week. wouldn't answer the question. >> of whether or not students would be targeted or children at schools. >> the best. >> we can do is put the. >> best guidance that we can out there. we have. 150 year precedent and protecting birthright citizenship. >> that's a whole new group of. students and families that are now nervous. as a result of this administration. we have more than ten years where the precedent of the federal courts saying that students have a right to basic ed, regardless of their immigration status. so

we're leaning into that in our state. >> and i think. >> it's really a bipartisan issue. >> i think. >> across the. >> country, my. colleagues are saying. let's not. >> violate this. >> very sacred. >> thing that. >> has been. >> in. place for. so long, which is protecting schools and churches and. places where students and families expect trust. >> so that's. >> the guidance we're putting out. i suspect it ends. >> up. >> in the courts ultimately. but to this day. >> forward. >> i think. >> we're all on high alert. but but very committed to keeping students feeling like school. >> is a place to. >> belong and. a place to be successful. and i don't think it's particularly partizan. it's one thing. >> we always. >> agreed on is kids should be safe at. >> school from. >> all of those risks. >> what is. >> the guidance that you're giving. school officials, teachers and principals? if law enforcement shows up at one of their school facilities? >> yeah. >> first and foremost, we're not immigration enforcement officers in. this country. >> in education. we're educators. so number one. >> don't be the source. >> of it. >> we're not handing over kids. we're not handing over information. there's a lot of legal precedent to protect

student data, student privacy, family privacy. >> if an officer. >> shows up, you have to confirm that they have a justifiable warrant from a court or something. directive of a court. it's got to be very specific. >> we're telling. >> our districts, even then, you can pause, make sure the principal knows the. >> superintendent. local legal counsel. >> and that student's family. make sure everyone is aware of this thing. there is no reason to open your. >> doors immediately. >> we want. >> to follow. >> the law. >> but the law. >> gives districts a lot to protect. about student data, student. >> privacy. >> and family engagement. and that's what districts should be doing. >> tom homan is donald trump's border czar, and he said this yesterday. he defended deporting kids from schools, saying this, quote. the message needs to. >> be clear. >> that there's consequences to. entering the country illegally. >> said homan. >> asked if agents would enter schools to arrest adults or kids outside of public safety or national security threats. quote. if we don't show those consequences, you're never going to fix. >> the border.

>> problem. when you when you look at where they've previously viewed children as an important vehicle for sending their desired message of deterrence, it was child separation, a policy that a judge, i believe, appointed by former president ronald reagan. described as. >> quote, child. >> abuse. where do. >> your worries go about. >> what the next four years. >> could be like. >> for public school kids in america? >> well. >> our worry as educators is always that students and families will make these really critical choices about their attendance and their enrollment. >> if this. >> is a. >> place that's. >> no longer safe and. >> they pull their children away from. >> schools, not only does it impact student learning, but it puts us further behind this idea that everyone should have this democratic opportunity of learning. and so i think we worry a lot around the impacts it's already having. i think we learned we worry a lot about separation. what if it isn't the student but the family is deported? what then? you asked earlier in an earlier segment,

you know, what do we do? and who do we turn to? who are the families emergency contacts? and how do we make sure those students stay stable and in their schools? it's really the most disruptive thing we've ever seen, far worse than the first administration, because again, he said that schools are now fairground. and number two, this idea of a birthright citizenship idea going away after 150 years, it's an entirely different swath of families that are now having a lot of anxiety about this. so we have to lean into the protections we have, i think ultimately leaning to the courts and pray, quite. >> frankly. >> that those closest to the president and this administration say, hold on, you're disrupting and creating chaos where it doesn't exist. and this is not the face that that party ought to where home is one person, members of congress or another, the president's cabinet is another. there's going to have to be a lot of soul searching on whether they want to be the party that destroys young people, and this idea that they become amazing americans who create and

develop. >> and contribute. >> they're attacking that every day. >> a kid doesn't go. >> to school. they're going to have to own that. >> eddie. >> it's it. >> stops you in your tracks to. >> hear it put like. >> that, they're going to have to own. the idea that they have created a generation of kids who may have been born here, but who are afraid to go to school, who may be afraid to leave their parents. they may be afraid that every time they go to school, it's the last time they see their mom or dad. families that are in hiding on this harrowing anniversary of holocaust anniversary does have a really eerie echo to something that i think people. >> thought, how could. >> that happen? and that could never happen again. we are now on live tv talking about administration and live interviews with. >> their. >> faces showing that says proudly that schools are not off limits. >> right? i mean, tom homan is engaged in cosplay. he wants to be bull connor for our current

days. is that right? and, you know, there's a sense in which this moral question that has animated our politics looms large. and the question that i keep asking myself is, what is the trump administration asking each of us to consent to? right. so as we delve into this question and there are those, like you said, it's the majority of the american people want to get rid of violent criminals who are here illegally. but what are we conceding? what are we consenting to when we say that they can do this to children? when we say that they can attack 150 year precedent, what are we allowing? and so the question becomes, what does that what does what are the implications for how we understand ourselves in relation to this moment? so it's not only a political question, it's a deeply, deeply moral question. it seems to me that we're we are running into this occasion or this situation where calloused hearts seem to rule at every, every point in our country. >> well, and that examples.

>> of political. >> bullying having. >> a high success rate also. rule right that. >> that it's a political position to say that children in school should be safe. >> can you imagine? >> no. >> it doesn't make any sense. and just think about it. what the superintendent said is that it's not only the children who may lose their parents, but think about that could be someone's best friend, that child's best friend that they see suddenly snatched and traumatized. so it's rippled. the cascading effects of trauma and anxiety that will have implications for generations for, for, for years to come. >> chris ragdoll. >> i want to ask. >> you to. >> be a part of our conversations regularly moving forward. you've spoken out. i know there are a lot of folks who are afraid. >> to do so. >> we appreciate. >> that you have. >> and i hope we can continue to call on you. >> we should all have a bipartisan approach to protecting kids. happy to come on anytime. nicole. >> i wish. >> desperately that that wasn't a headline to even say that or believe that, but these.

>> days it is. >> so again, we hope to be able to call. >> on you in. >> the future. thank you for joining us today ahead. >> for us. elon musk's. >> growing influence in global politics and his endorsement of the far, far right in germany. new comments that are sending fear of a resurgence in anti-semitism as the world. >> today remembers the horrors. >> of the nazi party. >> 80. >> years after the liberation of the auschwitz concentration camp. >> safelite repair safelite replace. >> nobody likes a. >> cracked windshield. >> but at least you can. >> go. >> to safelite. >> com and. schedule a fix in minutes. >> can't confirm. >> very easy. >> safelite can come to you for free, and our. >> highly trained. >> techs can. >> replace your. >> windshield. >> right at your home. >> safelite repair safelite replace. i'm barbara and i'm from st. joseph, michigan. replace. >> go to i'm a retired school librarian.

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need to know about what happened to you? and millions like yourself? >> that they have to know that is true. you know, because it's so, so unbelievable. unbelievable that nobody can. even believe this. >> few chapters in our shared human history are darker, more barbaric, more monstrous than the holocaust. that much is clearest to those who survive the unspeakable horrors of auschwitz today. assembled survivors marked 80 years since the liberation of auschwitz. but even as the world celebrates that triumph of good over evil, some of those same dark forces and sentiments of bigotry and anti-semitism are rising and rallying anew. consider the

growing popularity of one political party in particular, afd. alternative for germany, an extreme. >> far right. >> coalition that's repeatedly flirted with non sexy language. now consider who delivered an address to that very party over the weekend one. elon musk, the recent subject of a. did he or didn't he debate having to do with what was seen by some as looking an awful lot like a nazi salute and what he told afd this weekend, 80 years after the liberation of auschwitz, might have sounded some alarms as well. >> i think it's. >> like. >> frankly. >> too much. >> of a of. >> a focus. >> on on past guilt. >> and we need. >> to move. >> beyond that. >> people. >> you know, children should not be guilty of the sins of their parents or even let alone their parents, their great grandparents. >> joining our conversation, staff writer for the atlantic. author of autocracy inc, anne applebaum is here. eddie is also back. and this was always going

to be a huge and heavy commemoration. >> at auschwitz. >> but there is something so unsettling in our politics. i wonder what. >> your thoughts. >> are today and your reporting. >> i think there are two things to say. one, the importance of this particular auschwitz anniversary is that it's probably the last one where there will be real survivors. i mean, there will be fewer and fewer. there are very few left, but there are five years from the big anniversaries, five years from now, ten years from now, there won't be any. and in your introduction, i think your interviewee made an important point. you know, without physical people, without the reality of it, it becomes there's a risk that it becomes a kind of myth that people something they read about in books. it's hard to know whether it's true. the actual people who live there aren't there anymore to talk about it. and so it begins to fade away. that's the first point to make. the second point to make is that, you know, musk's intervention into german

politics is very curious in a number of ways. but but the quote that you had from him, where he says children shouldn't bear the burden. you know, i actually i know a little bit about german schools. i was once a visiting scholar in germany, and i had small children with me, and they went to german schools briefly. and the german schools don't teach kids to be guilty. they just teach them what happened, and they teach them the lessons from it. and the lessons being that we need to protect against that kind of regime, we need to reinforce liberal democracy. we need to remember about our, you know, we need to enforce our constitution. we need independent courts. so the things that they're taught are not it's not about guilt. and for musk to interpret it that way, you know, children shouldn't feel guilty means that he's he's been influenced by far right propaganda and people who want germany to forget about it. and they want to forget the rules, and they want to forget the lessons. and that's pretty disturbing from someone who is as prominent as he is in the in

the new administration. >> and let me read from your reporting on on musk and europe's challenges with him and his ideology and his power. quote, until recently, russia was the most important state seeking to undermine european institutions. now, a group of american oligarchs also want to undermine european institutions because they don't want to be regulated, and they may have the american president on their side quite soon. the european union, along with great britain and other democracies around the world, might find that they have to choose between their alliance with the united states and their ability to run their own elections and select their own leaders without the pressure of aggressive outside manipulation. you are, i think, laying down a marker for something that you probably see the signs that this is already underway. tell tell us what's been happening. >> so the a lot of the germans believe that the reason for musk's intervention in the german elections, aside from whatever affinity has for the

for the alternative for germany, this is the german far right party or the german autocratic populist party that one of the reasons is that he wants he doesn't want his company. you know, x and other tech companies to be regulated. the germans are right now looking at regulating social media. sorry, i should say, not the germans, the europeans. the eu is looking more broadly at it. a lot some european countries already have some regulation. and what they're looking at really is just about introducing more transparency, forcing the platforms to reveal more about their processes, about their moderation, about their algorithms. how do the algorithms work and the tech companies. and this includes mark zuckerberg at at facebook and instagram, as well as others don't want to be regulated. and they're hoping that the trump administration will prevent that. and of course, you know, it's tied up in this question of extremism and, you know, you

know, you know, the manipulated attempts to push european countries in a particular direction. so europeans are now afraid that american social media companies are going to try to shape their politics. and so they're thinking maybe they will need to regulate social media. and of course, you now have a pushback from the social media owners. >> and this unholy alliance. i want to press both of you on what that says about our relationships with some of these same companies and individuals. same companies and individuals. i have ever feel like a spectator in your own life with chronic migraine? 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. in a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner. so why wait? talk to your doctor. botox® effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. those with these conditions

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moral vacuum. >> but today, however, we. all we have. >> an obligation. not only to remember, which is very, very important, but. >> also to. >> warn and to. >> teach that. >> hatred only begets more hatred. killing. >> more killing. >> that just stopped me in my tracks today when i when i read it and then seeing it, i was just in berlin and people said, what was it like? i said, well, when you see a city literally torn in two, all you think about our own challenges. we better get our crap together. i mean, like the natural extension of hate is division, and division

is the enemy of a democracy. >> oh, absolutely. >> and the language of dehumanization that will allow for and allow for the justification to literally try to wipe a people off the face of the earth. right. it's something that we have to be mindful of from the very beginning. and so this attempt to erase memory, to kind of deny the ovens, to deny the barbarity, to deny the cruelty, is in some ways an attempt to give license to the cruelty and barbarity in our own time and our own moment. and so the issue is not to think about this as a singular moment in history that cannot be matched by barbarity elsewhere, but to understand what human beings are capable of. >> yeah. >> and to understand that in our current moment allows us to look not only at what's happening in the us, what's happening in the middle east, what's happening around the world with an eye for the level of cruelty and the depth of evil that human beings are capable of. >> and with your finger on the

pulse all over the world, but especially in in ukraine and all across europe, what is your sense of sort of the unsettled feeling folks have not just around this, this anniversary, but around our shifts and our politics here. >> so it's pretty clear that we're living through a moment when a lot of things people took for granted, you know, an idea about international law, a belief that in europe, borders would never be changed by force, an accepted idea that violence is always inexcusable and it's never the way to solve political problems. the a lot of those assumptions are dropping away. that thing. i mean, part of this was provoked by the russian invasion of ukraine, first in 2014 and then again three years ago, which i think was actually partly intended to achieve that. it was partly meant to show, look, we can do whatever we want. we don't care about your laws and your rules. you know,

those are old rules. those are american rules. those are liberal rules, and we're not interested in them. and then there's but now there's a feeling that i don't want to compare the united states to russia in any way. but there is clear evidence that we now have a lot of americans, including maybe the american president, who also don't care very much about those old ways of doing things. and so that's here. you can, you can it's almost like a noise you can hear, you know, the governments all over europe kind of recalculating their their security, their way of understanding the world, their belief in geopolitics, their, you know, as they get used to the idea that the, the, the rules that kept europe and much of the world, or at least a part of the world stable for the last half century, might not be there anymore. >> i mean, the most, most obvious and tangible is trump's indifference to nato. and obviously. it's the alliance. it's the nations and the friends that. defeated this evil today

that people are honoring and trying to remember in auschwitz. is that is that i mean, you're sort of describing a shift and an awareness, but there has to be just a gut punch to seeing america as indifferent about nato now. >> and i mean, the first clue wasn't it's not so much nato. the first thing that really shocked europeans was the trump's comments about greenland, which i think most people in the us probably treated as a joke. but then a few days ago, he had a very angry conversation with the danish prime minister. i happened to be in copenhagen the next day, and i witnessed the ripple effect of the of the conversation, and people were genuinely confused by it. you know, already the united states can do whatever it wants in greenland. there's no restraint on american defense activity in greenland, and it seems like trump just wants it because he wants the map of the us to look bigger. and that's a that's something we haven't had in foreign politics, you know, in a

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that he does in these things that people haven't focused on it, but it is not disconnected from things that he throws out in such a quick pace and with such freneticism that it has a numbing effect. >> well, absolutely. he wants to he wants to occupy the attention economy. he just wants our attention 24 over seven. but, you know, he's cosplaying teddy roosevelt. he thinks he's going to reinvigorate re reimagine the american empire, even though he has no idea. probably hasn't read a damn thing about teddy roosevelt. just wants to do it. so, you know, i think we just have to deal with these these surface level folk with these very bad intentions who will generate cruel and very, very devastating outcomes. it seems to me. >> and applebaum and eddie glaude, thank you both so much for spending time with us today on all of this. to be continued. still ahead for us. outrage growing over trump's decision to fire most of the inspectors general. late friday night. is it even legal? and is there anything anyone will do about anything anyone will do about it? the next hour of

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approved, get your funds as. >> soon as. the same. >> day your loan is on deck. >> i worry about. >> the message. >> that's. being sent. >> that if you commit crimes. >> in the president's. >> name, if. >> you commit crimes to further the president's agenda. >> those crimes are okay. >> and what. >> message that sends. >> to police officers and how we'll be able to have a justice. system if we don't have police officers. >> who believe. >> that they'll be supported. >> hi again everyone. it's now 5:00 in new york. keep that message in mind from former prosecutor jason manning. he worked on the january 6th cases as we bring you stunning new developments that are essentially turbocharging the president's retribution tour. after already wiping out the justice department's most sprawling investigation in. >> its own. >> history by pardoning the nearly 1600 rioters who were charged for their roles on january 6th. a trump appointed prosecutors now taking things further. acting u.s. attorney for the district of columbia ed

martin announced today a, quote, special project to investigate the use of the obstruction charge that was brought against hundreds of january 6th defendants. back in june, the united states supreme court narrowed the scope of who that charge applied to. martin's announcement appoints two officials to look at the use of the charge during the january 6th investigation, and requires them to issue a preliminary report by friday. wall street journal reports. according to people familiar with the matter, quote, within the u.s. attorney's office, some prosecutors viewed martin's inquiry as an opening salvo in the trump administration's stated aim of investigating the january 6th investigators. and as we mentioned in the last hour of our coverage, we have also learned this afternoon that trump's doj has fired personnel who worked on special counsel jack smith's team. that team investigated and indicted donald trump for his conduct on january 6th. a doj official telling nbc news that acting ag does not,

quote, trust these officials to implement donald trump's agenda. that is where we start the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. nbc news white house correspondent vaughn hillyard is here. also joining us, host of the bulwark podcast. msnbc political analyst tim miller is here. former u.s. attorney, former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman is here. and joining me at the table, new york times investigative reporter, msnbc national security contributor, who also has a new story on retribution. mike schmidt is at the table. vaughn hillyard, i start with you. i'll give our viewers a little note that you're at an event. there may be some ambient noise, but tell us what you know about these developments. >> right. >> i think it's notable when you're talking about ed martin specifically being put into this capacity that he was to essentially green light such an investigation and such an inquiry as this is that ed martin was an individual who was

affiliated with the 2020 election stop the steal effort. and in so many ways, we did not know what the consequences of january 6th would be. at the same time, we knew that individuals affiliated with the effort that donald trump effectively condoned, by and large, have become very much front and central characters in his next administration or tangentially through his administration. he's here in florida, about to address the house gop conference or annual meeting. speaker mike johnson and marjorie taylor greene, the entire almost the entirety of the republican house caucus is here. and this announcement this afternoon comes at a time in which republicans are looking to donald trump and essentially all but deferential to him, not only in their confirmation of pete hegseth, but also speaker johnson, just a few moments ago, was asked a series of questions about his controversial decisions, those of donald trump's, and really said that there is no space between him, the conference and the white house. and when you look at somebody like ed martin and the

inquiry into these doj prosecutors, individuals who were career individuals and not liberals, but also conservatives, individuals who are career employees that still, by and large, are working inside of the administration today, the department of justice. they are not the top names of merrick garland the folks back home are familiar with, but they are prosecutors who have long worked at the doj, and even those who have been there for the last couple of years. that took on the work of prosecuting those who were behind the january 6th attack, and now a key ally of donald trump's politically, is here at the forefront with this opening inquiry. >> harry litman ted cruz called the january 6th insurrection, quote, domestic terrorism. so i guess you'd forgive career staff at the department if they thought they were doing a righteous thing by prosecuting men and women who physically beat cops, six of whom would go on to die one from injuries, five from suicide. what happens. to folks who are now targeted

for firing or worse, as part of trump's retribution tour? >> they personally. >> nicole. >> will have a whole panoply of potential remedies. but this is odious and unprecedented, as you say, the career folks who were assigned these cases. yes, i think they saw them as righteous. they were righteous. that's the thing that trump is trying to efface. but even if they weren't, they were doing their job as they've always done, without fear or favor. and it's an absolute stake in the heart to try to save. for that reason, you need to be investigated. this is arch politicization and a complete, distorted portrayal of what happened before. nothing like this has ever happened before. everybody in the doj regards the career officials as the lifeblood of the place, and that that the attempt here is to suck it dry. it is really, really

odious. >> i mean, tim miller, there would be one thing to say today if the department. leapt to hold donald trump accountable for a crime he committed on live tv, telling people to, quote, fight like hell or you won't have a country? it's another thing entirely. when it appeared from the outside that merrick garland was very, very, very reluctant and seemingly only. >> in the wake. >> of the congressional investigation even turned and appointed someone to investigate trump's role in this. and i wonder if you can just give some voice to how upside down this is that career prosecutors at a department that, from the outset, appeared. very reluctant to aggressively pursue the masterminds of the january 6th insurrection and ultimately only the most violent perpetrators were spending any time in jail. the seditious conspiracy convictions were also wiped out by donald trump. but the. idea that there was anything aggressive or anything that wasn't beyond.

>> by the. >> book is farcical. and i just before the history is rewritten and we all have our nose pressed against the glass of trump's retribution tour. a quick note on how conservative small c conservative merrick garland really was. >> absolutely know for sure. >> and there is. >> this earth one earth two element to. >> this debate. >> in particular, all of our politics now. but it's just so striking here. you know, a lot of the, you know, pro-democracy. >> circles, advocacy. >> circles that were trying to, you know, hold trump and others accountable for the attempt. >> to overthrow. >> the 2020 election. there was. frustration by how. small c conservative. merrick garland was in and. you know, kind of addressing these, these crimes and. whether there were. >> some delays. >> and whether they should have moved more quickly, you know, and in trump world and maga world. >> you know, merrick garland is like. >> some boogeyman. >> that was. >> just targeting people baselessly for their for their. >> politics and was going.

>> after them. and it was unprecedented. >> weaponization of the government. >> you know, so. >> it is just two completely opposite views. obviously, in my from my perspective, the maga world is completely upside down in this. but the other thing that is upside. >> down. >> on this, you read that statement at the at the start at the top, and i just i just want to reread one sentence of it, just to show you just how strange i like really how different it is where the maga folks are taking us on this in light of their actions. so these career. employees who are talking about and this is a statement from the trump official, in light of their actions, the acting attorney general does not trust these officials to assist in faithfully implementing the president's agenda. that is such an unusual thing to say about the department of justice, right? i mean, you were in the white house. the idea that that career officials whose job it is to prosecute criminals like, also needed to be concerned about implementing the president's agenda like that is

just not how things have been done historically. and so the fact that they would put that in a statement, like coming from a spokesperson at the department, shows that they are unapologetic about just completely wiping away this notion that there is independence in the in the judiciary and that the people that work there have obligations beyond service to donald trump. >> mike trump telegraphed the retribution part of his candidacy, but now that it's taking form, it is specific, it is unsparing. and you and your colleagues write today that it does include. threats of violence. >> yeah. >> i mean, about what they did today, the retribution campaign is much more organized and has a standing start to it. then certainly it had in his. >> first term. >> in his first term, they did go back and barr looked at the flynn investigation. there was a

whole look at the flynn investigation, the criminal case they really, really didn't like. and it ultimately ended up with the justice department having that conviction thrown out. but that was one case. and it took until the third and fourth year of the presidency for that to kick in. we're here on day eight, seven, eight, nine. >> wherever we are. >> and there is systemic things that we have seen come out on the first day. he signs this executive order that puts in place a process, a fact. >> finding process. >> to look for political bias. so the, the, the, the important thing to see here is that there's a structure in an architecture to this that's different. there is the he has a us attorney, an interim us attorney. whoever this top prosecutor is in washington who is moving ahead with something that that has more order to it

than sort of the slapdash version of the first term, where, you know, he tweets in the second and third or fourth month about how obama tapped my wires. and that sets off a thing with house republicans, that leads to a memo that leads to this and that and takes a long time. they're moving much more quickly. >> vaughn hillyard i wonder. what their end game is. do they want to see the career prosecutors who worked on jack smith's cases named and shamed? do they want to see them prosecuted? do they want to see them threatened by the very people they prosecuted and jailed? what do they want? >> right. i think as you've reported out and mike has reported out here, we knew that there was an effort well before the 2024 election to be prepared for this moment. and mike davis is a close ally of ed martin's as well as now president trump's. he was helping the legal team during the transition. and he is somebody who runs a legal organization, a

conservative organization outside of the government. and he is somebody who talked very openly to me about seeking, potentially write a sprawling conspiracy indictment that could loop in multiple individuals affiliated with multiple investigations. and when you are looking at who is placed here as the interim d.c. attorney, that ally of mike davis, it should be of no surprise that ed martin was ready here for this moment. what is the end game? i think that is the outstanding question. but at this point in time, we knew that donald trump essentially empowered a great many of his allies, perhaps not explicitly, at least to what our cameras and the public may have heard, but implicitly by not ever speaking out against the actions of people like who were affiliated with stop the steal, for instance, or distancing himself from mike davis, for instance. he has essentially signed on to the calls by people

like steve bannon to go forward with mass investigations and potential prosecutions. and i think it's important to understand that the people at the department of justice, who we are talking about, a large number of them, they were brought over from other divisions within the doj, and i know harry would know this better than i, but they were brought on because of the magnitude of the case, the seriousness of the case, and just how expansive of an operation it was to go and investigate more than 1500 individuals, the broken side of the capitol building, and attempted to stop the peaceful transfer of power. i know that there are individuals that are still working in the department of justice today who have since left those types of cases that continue to work on very specialized types of investigations and prosecutions. and the question here is, are those individuals who are to this very day still working, working with the department of justice, potentially being targeted because there is a potential chilling effect not only on those individuals, but also potential future investigations by anybody

affiliated with the doj into investigating either donald trump or anybody in his greater orbit. >> i mean, harry litman, what does this actually look like? and i guess there's no shortage of investigators willing to investigate their colleagues. john durham did it. and for bill barr in the last trump justice department, what does this look like? what happens now? and i think the first report or list is due friday. what's happening inside doj? >> yeah. >> i which i know a little bit about, these are human beings who take great pride, justifiably in the work they have done. as vaughn just said, this is the biggest operation in the history of the department of justice and a very righteous one. it was an attempt by a marauding mob to defeat the peaceful transfer of power. but it is just an article of faith throughout the 93 u.s. attorneys offices. you do your best in any given case. if you don't. by the way, there's inspector generals and other reviews. that's part

of what's going on here to completely smother all accountability. but this this is really world one, and world two is a good way to put it, we are in complete upside down land. and i'm here to tell you it's not just those people, because that is the sort of ultimate strike, but everyone now in the department who is looking around, who is scared. some have been reassigned to the equivalent of asset forfeiture in alaska. it is a complete, ruthless, no holds barred campaign against you just can't emphasize this enough. people who have done nothing, nothing, even arguably wrong, in fact, have served their country as they took an oath to do. this is really just a complete, you know, body. body blow is too weak. a complete atom bomb rolled on to the department of justice. tim. >> miller. >> because i've covered the trump story for nine years, i'm going to make a bold prediction that behind vaughn hillyard,

there will be no republicans who object to any of these moves. and what's amazing about that is there were no republicans who objected to the prosecution and the sentences delivered to stuart rhodes, other than a few sort of certifiable nuts who were out there holding vigils at the prison. i mean, john thune didn't think the seditious conspiracy charges were excessive. and anything i've read, mitch mcconnell actually referred donald trump to the justice department for prosecution. ted cruz again described january 6th as domestic terrorism. lindsey graham said, it's been fun, but i'm out. i mean, the republicans didn't view any of the prosecutors at the department of justice who were trying these cases in public court for four years is doing anything wrong? who who says anything now, in your in your estimation, nobody. >> look, we had the just there's the firing, the inspector generals, the inspectors general that you've been covering some very tepid statements from from

chuck grassley and others in the senate. obviously, there were the three votes against hegseth, but at this point, he is putting the maximum pressure campaign on republicans on the hill to fold. and i don't i think they probably would have folded with a minimum pressure campaign. right. and so we haven't seen any evidence that people are going to, you know, speak out when it comes to these pardons of violent criminals when it comes to removing government servants that are supposed to root out fraud, waste and abuse with inspector general do. and now with the firing of other of other career officials. and if you look at who is kind of replacing this, this is this is all part of a strategy. and it was right there in project 2025. a lot of these ios that have been put out were part of what was in project 2025. editor martin. oh my gosh, i was about to call him eagle. editor martin that shows you i'm spending too much time on social media. that's his twitter account. eagle editor martin, this is a rabid partizan. and, you know, being put in as acting attorney

in this key district, this is and it's not the type of person that's getting these jobs going forward. it's not the person that was an unapologetically backing trump, even through the stop the steal effort, even through the attempt to overturn the election, even after those are the types of people that are getting these jobs. and so, you know, in some areas, i think they're hoping people just quit. but i guess because of the nature of this one, they're they're actively removing people and they're being replaced with, with sycophants. >> not just removing them, but now pledging to investigate them. vaughn hillyard, thank you for starting us off. leap back on the air. if you find anyone unsettled by this and willing to say so, everyone else sticks around. we'll turn to that reporting in the times about violence also being on the table as a possible element of retribution. when we come back, we'll also turn to this friday night late night purge that we've referenced, likely most likely illegal by donald trump

of more than a dozen government watchdogs, the ig. plus, this will be a big week on capitol hill. some of donald trump's most controversial picks are due for confirmation hearings. they include the former democrat who's made a name for herself defending dictators abroad, tulsi gabbard. and later in the broadcast, experts are warning that the bird flu outbreak is passing one alarming milestone after another and the threat of a pandemic is growing, even as trump picks a vaccine skeptic to lead the department of health and human services and grinds all that agency's functions to a halt. all those stories and more when deadline white house when deadline white house continues after a quick break. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. t-mobile's 5g network connects a hundred thousand delta employees so they can make every customer feel like they've arrived before they've left the ground.

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>> it's mike said, we're not even on day 7 or 8, and the new administration is already making big public moves against accountability and transparency. donald trump on friday night fired 18 inspectors general across numerous agencies from the departments of state, defense, interior and veterans affairs and many more. an administration official telling nbc news that this was, quote, an effort by the president to let go of parts of the past biden administration that don't align with the new trump administration. but the entire existence of an ig is that they don't attach themselves to any administration. they're completely apolitical. they investigate and expose wrongdoings no matter who the president is and no matter who commits them. trump told reporters over the weekend that his move was, quote, a very common thing to do and is very standard. but of course it isn't. that's not true. and more than just not being, it is very likely illegal. a law passed by congress in 2022 says that a

president must give 30 days notice of any senate confirmed ig, and must provide a substantive rationale as to why, neither of which trump did. we're back with tim, harry and mike. mike trump telegraphed a lot of what he would do to your reporting, some of his moves over the last weekend under the sort of loose heading of retribution weren't telegraphed. this is one of them. but he other other than i think the doj ig, he was pretty hostile to all of them the first time around. >> he's a big. >> fan of the horowitz. >> yeah, he liked him. >> why? he wrote some really tough reports on comey and strzok. >> so he's still there. >> yeah. he is as far as i know. but the thing about the retribution is that i think i mean we say this today in our piece, he's gone further than we thought he would. how now

obviously the targets of his retribution are not in prison. yet. he did say that at different points on the campaign trail. but what he did on the security issue, the physical security. issue was something that that caught us by surprise and was something that we couldn't find much evidence that he had discussed on the campaign trail, and that was taking the security details away from these individuals, like mike pompeo and john bolton, who had been part of helping donald trump kill a top iranian commander. the top iranian commander in the, you know, in the middle east for the country when he was in iraq, they had been part of helping to plan that. they were part of helping trump do that. and because of that, they have faced these threats of iranian retribution, and they were being protected. and what we didn't think would happen is that trump

would find a way to take the iranian threat against people who had helped him kill a top iranian commander and use it against them by taking the security details away and leaving them on their own to essentially fend for themselves or pay for their own protection. >> bolton's been a critic. what if trump? why is he mad at pompeo? >> that's the interesting thing, is that it's not entirely clear what pompeo did to get on trump's bad side. and in a sense. >> he got too skinny. >> in, in a sense, from the people that we talked to. what that what it does is that it almost enhances trump's power. because if you are a member of his current administration or if you're a republican and you're not sure what's going to upset the president, then you're certainly you're more likely to be in line, you're more likely to fall into line. and how how does this enhance his power in terms of, of the fear that he

can create? because you are seeing examples of what his retribution looks like. now, with all that said, there is a counterpoint to that, and that is that tom cotton and lindsey graham did come out over the weekend and say, what's going on here? we're taking away these security details and stood up for bolton and pompeo against trump in ways that i have not seen a lot of congressional republicans do. now, where does that go? what does that really mean? i don't know, but that was sort of notable amidst an obvious republican party that's in lockstep with trump. >> i mean, tim miller, all you need to know about the difference between trump and biden is that john bolton was on tv every day criticizing joe biden, who put the full weight and force of every asset the united states government had to protect the life of a. of a very public critic john bolton criticized trump, but he was vicious against the biden

foreign policy. but when it comes to american officials, i mean, this is more than retribution. this feels like the action that goes the furthest into turning the country into something that is no longer a democracy. >> yeah. you know, i was listening to mike talk about that, and you hear that, you know, things like, oh, i was we were surprised that that trump went as far as he did as far as retribution. and like my initial reaction to that is kind of like, well, how could you be how could anybody be surprised by anything this guy does? right? you expect that he's going to do the worst. but i think that the reporting is so good and important because it was surprising to me in this in the literal sense of like, you don't even think to think that they're going to do that, like like who? even how. depraved do you have to be to come up with this idea? >> right. like letting the iranians kill mike pompeo? like, who had that on their like, list to float to the principal in the meeting? it's insane. it's sadistic. >> yeah, it is sadistic. it's like, what was the brainstorm that produced this idea? so in that sense, it is surprising.

and, you know, look, jonathan, jonathan last wrote about this this morning. it does. we're laughing but like it it you you have to start to take seriously the threats, the threats of violence. right. if you just put all this stuff together, the removal of the, you know, the release from prison of violent criminals, you know, and the pardoning of them and giving them kind of carte blanche to understand that the president will have their back if they are advocates for them. you know, jonathan mentioned that he had the guys on stage at the campaign events that did a contract killing, or at least allegedly, i guess they're they're indicted for contract killing, i should say sleepy hollow when these rappers. right. and then you take away the security clearance of people as you start to put all this together. and, you know, i mean, we'll see how things shake out. but it definitely is ominous and it is pushing the boundaries of kind of what we imagined he would do on this front, for sure. >> i mean, harry litman, there's

sort of a trope, right, where where anyone that covered trump's attacks on the rule of law had trump derangement syndrome, and trump's the only political figure in my career or in my reading for whom his supporters don't believe him, but his detractors do. and that phenomenon is playing out right. you don't hear on fox news that john bolton and mike pompeo might get offed because trump removed the protection that saves them from an attack on from the iranians. right. because fox news is, by and large, aligned, i think, with i think i don't even know where fox news lands on the ideological spectrum, but this idea of leaving mike pompeo and john bolton vulnerable from an assassination from iran is. so it's wacky, it's dangerous, it's sick. i mean, the iranians do have the ability to threaten people inside our borders. lisa monaco worked on this issue almost around the clock for the last president and the removal of physical security for political actors does open the door to a country where

political critics or political dissidents are threatened with acts of extreme violence. >> which is actually mind boggling, though may be part of the point. he his pettiness knows no bounds, and the assaults on the constitution are the most serious. but just in terms of the practical impact. same with the inspectors general, which is plainly illegal, but that's the least of it. these are people who've saved the united states some $700 billion. now we're going to have trump lackeys in. remember the first term he fired? who? michael atkinson, an inspector general, because atkinson reported, as he was duty bound to do the whistleblower call that led to the first impeachment. so his sin is to have done something that without which we might not have even known about this to history. and i just want to second what the point that michael's made it really first, it's quite organized. there's an

architecture here that is right out of project 2025 that includes this very suggestion about inspectors general. but second, its its consequences for the democracy are grave and really without precedent. and it's not there's nothing kind of it's obviously an attempt to smother accountability. why do you do this friday night? you know, it's a bank robber who wants to first disable the security cameras. it's clear. and it's his record anyway. and the final point that the that the republicans and the senate are not up in arms is really atrocious. >> harry levin, mike schmidt, thank you both so much for starting us off. tim sticks around a little bit longer with us coming up next on earth one trump's picks to lead the fbi, hhs and the dni would be kept far, far away from literally any, any role or any office

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russia to. come in and start putting. >> their tanks. >> and missiles on. >> our borders. >> either with mexico or elsewhere.

>> russia says, hey. >> i don't. >> want u.s. and nato coming in and making their. >> military outposts. >> on our. >> borders within ukraine. >> there's an argument that it is ethnically targeted. >> covid-19 attacks. certain races disproportionately. >> i shut down the fbi hoover building on day one and reopening the next day as a museum of the deep state. >> those are people who wouldn't get anywhere near a normal cabinet for any normal democrat or republican. but ladies and gentlemen, meet the most likely future director of national intelligence, future secretary of health and human services, and future director of the fbi. and that was just a glimpse. there's so much more where that came from in terms of their controversial and at one point in our country's history, disqualifying public statements, baffling in some ways on the part of three of trump's most out there outlandish nominees. they are all set for their confirmation hearings later this

week, and nothing has changed structurally in our politics to suggest that they won't all sail to confirmation. nbc news is reporting that the white house is stepping up their pressure campaign on republican senators to do what the white house wants to do, what they did for hegseth, and confirm someone in this case, three people with serious questions. it leads to some unease among republicans when gop senators sums up his colleague's thinking on the nominees this way, quote, will only give so much because this is the future of the country. it's not entertainment. television. well, we don't think so. anyway. it's worth pointing out, though, that the senator chose to speak anonymously. not exactly a good sign if you think that the republicans are going to stand in the way of trump's will. joining our coverage, nbc news congressional correspondent who understands this dynamic perhaps better than anyone, julie sirkin and tim spak as well. julie, other than complaining about the lack of qualifications or the stated

skepticism of vaccines on the eve of a potential bird flu, or the bizarre statements that line up perfectly with vladimir putin in the case of tulsi gabbard, does anyone really think that any of these folks will be blocked? >> i don't think so, nicole. i mean, what we saw happen with pete hegseth on friday. you and i were talking several times last week about the serious concerns that republican senators had with his qualifications, with his expertise, even on the national security part. if you take aside all of the allegations that we were reporting on, that is something that at least certain republicans cared the most about. and yet, only three republicans, one short, voted against him. and i think that is indicative of what we are going to see this week, next week, as they hear from the most controversial nominees that trump had put forward. i think out of all three of those, you're looking at tulsi gabbard, because republicans who care about the national security, who are frustrated that this is somebody who was a democrat and

independent, became a republican just before the election, and certainly had questionable visits and meetings with foreign leaders, adversaries. you played some of her comments on putin and russia. these are serious concerns that senators have. she went into one of her meetings with senators, saying that she now apparently has an about face on section 702, which is one of the nation's top surveillance programs that allows them to catch bad guys overseas. she now says she's apparently in favor of that. the problem that i keep hearing, though, from republicans, nicole, is that they're just not buying what she's saying. i've heard now from both sides of the aisle, from senators who say that she told them one thing, but they're not really sure if they can trust her on that. we know that the white house wants her to step up her game here on capitol hill. but to your point, it's going to take a real difference for those senators to get from privately saying no or publicly saying maybe to actually voting against her on the senate floor. and i think it's also indicative

of the test that trump is putting them through. >> tim miller this isn't even a trump story. this isn't even about trump and the people he picked. he picked these people because they play well in the manosphere. the podcasters love these guys. this is a story about what a joke the republicans have turned themselves into. and republicans don't get to tell journalists like julie that they care about national security. the calls about pete hegseth came from inside fox news ten sources and inside his family. a sister in law come from anonymous sources. they all had names to them. and the concerns about tulsi gabbard there on live tv. and you know what? ask ask vladimir putin what he thinks of tulsi gabbard. you don't even need to take a domestic critic, a tulsi gabbard. but the fact that these guys are going to put on suits and trot to conferences and act like they care about security is rendered a joke. if they confirm these folks. >> complete joke and the whole the whole cabinet selections have been clownish, like you can put, you know, ideology aside

even for a second. we can talk about tulsi and kind of a separate box like hegseth and kash patel and rfk jr, just from a resume standpoint, are preposterous choices to lead the agencies that they've been set to lead. i you know, i mean, they don't have the experience to do this. they are hostile to the actions that the agencies are supposed to take to safeguard the country. in the instance of kash patel, i mean, this has been a person that has just been as transparent as you can be that he plans to target political foes using the power of the federal government, you know, and to have these centers, like, just just do one example of this kind of the ridiculousness, the clownish of all of this. thom tillis, senator from north carolina, has got a big election coming up in two years in the during the pam bondi hearing, was talking about how offensive it was that everyone was asking her

hypotheticals about what she would do if trump pardoned violent criminals. never would trump pardon a violent criminal. and so tillis is going to this race two days later. he pardons all the criminals. so then the question is, okay, if you're a serious person, that and you just were that gullible, then you would imagine that thom tillis would have a lot of questions for kash patel, who was in league with the january 6th insurrectionists. and, you know, there's been a lot of reporting about the communications and the advocacy he had for those who attacked the capitol. does anybody think he's going to do that? not really, i don't know. and the only possible hope, you know, to not fully despair on all this is it really does only take one of them. so it's worth trying to shame and pressure them. because if that three of collins, murkowski and mcconnell stick that opposed hegseth were were to oppose any of these other nominees, you'd only need one more. but it's like, where do you find one when you've got somebody like thom tillis and joni ernst just doing totally fake performative objections and ultimately folding? >> we'll be watching. julie.

we'll be relying on your eyes and ears and your reporting. thank you so much for joining us, tim miller. thank you for spending the hour with us. coming up next here. fears of a perfect storm when it comes to the bird flu virus and anti-science anti-public health administration responsible for administration responsible for handling a fast moving outbrea what tractor supply customers experience is personalized service. made possible by t-mobile for business. with t-mobile's reliable 5g business internet. employees get the information they need instantly. this is how business goes further with t-mobile for business. nothing is more important than family. a family you're born into, a family you choose or a family you make. i'm padma lakshmi. i came to this country when i was four years old with my mother. we came here because it was a land of opportunity. but for many, that's not the case. immigrant families are being separated.

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evolving into a form that lets it spread from person to person. the virus has already infected millions of birds and hundreds of cattle, as well as 67 people here in the united states. and as for the person who could be in charge of the government's handling and response to the bird flu, robert f kennedy jr. he's trump's pick to lead the health and human services department. the washington post reports that last week, he skipped a meeting where trump and biden officials hashed out their roles in the event of a pandemic. from that reporting, quote, the one guy who should have been there wasn't there, said one attendee. kennedy was two miles away on capitol hill, seeing to seeking to sway skeptical senators of his candidacy to serve as the nation's top health official, rather than reassuring lawmakers of his readiness to face an emergency. kennedy left some of them deeply rattled by sharing debunked theories about vaccines and making other questionable assertions. what could go wrong? joining our conversation, former obama white house policy

director and msnbc medical contributor doctor kavita patel. i'm beyond asking, is there anything that could make republicans want some untested and steady and responsible? so i won't, but just tell me what the government's options are right now, based on what we understand, the status and the threat to be of this bird flu. >> yeah. to be clear, so, nicole, as you mentioned, we don't have that human. >> to human. >> transmission yet. we're all kind of waiting on the precipice to look for these signs. and we saw another. >> sign today. >> so bird flu, h5n1. that's what we've been. >> talking about. >> since the kind of. >> first cases. >> in early 24. today we have a confirmed california farm where we saw h5n1. and that's important because it shares a. common ancestral link. >> to h5n1. >> and it just tells you. like all viruses, they're trying to survive and. >> they're. getting smarter. >> and they're learning how to exist in a very close population to us, namely farm animals, poultry, things that we eat,

things that we. depend on for our entire food, like food supply. so that. >> is. >> like the context, but. >> we're all kind of trying to figure. out how to navigate this, not just with the change of administration that. >> doesn't seem to care, but also career. >> i've never seen the. morale so low. you and. >> i have kind of. >> seen transitions. >> in administrations. i've never seen morale so low from the very people who need to be at the top of their game in order to put the surveillance out, to put the clinical notices. >> out, to keep us. >> people such. >> as myself kind. >> of posted on what to do next that support infrastructure has come to a grinding halt because of the directive to not have any scientific information or things need to be vetted before. >> communication. >> can go out. >> doctor patel, you also have the overlay of the very public and mass deportation plans. this is what the new york times reports. human testing has been voluntary and infections have been missed. few farm workers have opted to be tested out of fear of immigration officials or their own employers. if you

don't look for it, you won't find it, right? so deborah birx, who served as white house coronavirus response coordinator under trump, this is not about lockdowns or restricting activity. it's about protecting the individual american by empowering them with information. i mean, it is until it isn't. that's obviously wasn't trump's posture where he, i think, years later, was talking about the fallacy of testing. and as you said, the department has been essentially shut down ground to a halt. >> right? >> yeah. and i think on top of that, to your point about mass deportations, i mean, look, you don't need to like, turn to just the bird flu. it feels like everything is just really. >> like, on edge. so why would anybody think. >> that a robust public health response becomes. >> the. >> highest priority when all these things are happening? so it's not. >> just testing what makes this unusual. >> the bird. >> flu. >> in particular, nicole, is that we're. >> having to do this with. >> the department of agriculture. we're having. >> to do. >> this with communities that.

>> have not. >> gone through this kind of. pandemic exercise. they've always been prepared for kind of what we call like highly. >> pathogenic avian influenza. >> the bird flu. but we've never had to test the system the way we do now. >> doctor kavita patel will stay on this with your help. thank you for joining us today. you for joining us today. anothe my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis held me back. but now with skyrizi, i'm all in. thanks to skyrizi, i saw dramatically clearer skin. and many even achieved 100% clear skin. don't use if allergic. serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lowered ability to fight them may occur. before treatment, get checked for infections and tb. tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms, or vaccines. with skyrizi, nothing on my skin means everything. ♪nothing is everything♪ ask your dermatologist about skyrizi today. hey, everybody. w. kamau bell here. they say that america is the land of the free. but right now, people in the u.s. are seeing their freedoms taken away at an alarming rate. freedoms some of us take for granted.

the right to vote. equal access to health care. book banning and other forms of censorship that threaten our right to learn. and here's something truly shocking, right now in our country hundreds of thousands of people are incarcerated simply because they couldn't afford bail. that's not free and it's not fair. but there is hope for change. it lives in people like you and in a great organization called the american civil liberties union. so please join me and other concerned americans in defending our civil liberties by joining the aclu as a guardian of liberty today. all it takes is just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. when you're surrounded by oppressive laws you can't just sit back and be oppressed. you get up and fight and all of us at the aclu are fighting for you. whether it's criminal justice reform or protecting the lgbtq plus rights, abortion rights or voting rights. the aclu is in the courts fighting for your rights, and mine

and i, for one, sleep better at night knowing they're working every day in all 50 states to protect our freedoms. but these freedoms are at risk. we have to fight for them tirelessly and with your help, we will continue to do so. so please go to myaclu.org and join the fight for just $19 a month. use your credit card and get this special we the people t-shirt, aclu magazine and more to show you're helping ensure justice for all. as an individual, donating to the aclu is one of the most powerful things you can do to fight for justice. but the aclu can't do it alone. they need your support now to continue defending our democracy and the freedoms we hold dear. so please join us. call or go online to myaclu.org today. thank you. >> it's super beats. discover

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reveals that officials may close to 1200 arrests on sunday, and nearly half of those detained do not have criminal records. data first obtained by nbc news shows that just 52% were considered criminal arrests, meaning that at least 566 people who were arrested on sunday had not committed any crimes and were only detained because they lacked legal authorization to remain in the united states. that is far more than at least a few collateral arrests, as border chief tom homan had billed it. we're going to stay on top of this story. another break for us. we'll be right back. >> you'll be back. >> emus can't. >> help people. >> customize and save with liberty mutual. >> and doug. >> well, i'll be. >> only pay for what. you need. liberty. >> liberty, liberty, liberty. >> here you go. >> is there any way to get a better price on this? >> have you checked single care? >> before i.

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for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. times. we are grateful the beat with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicole. >> happy monday. >> thank you. >> welcome to the beat. i'm ari melber. >> we're covering. >> many stories. >> we begin. >> with some. >> major news. as the. president is. >> taking a. >> very concrete.

>>