19th. thank you. that was way too early for this tuesday morning. morning joe starts right now. >> a fight. >> that will go. >> tonight and tomorrow and the next day and the day after. and it won't stop. what they're stealing is not just an election. it's our future and it's our republic. and that's why we'll never stop. we'll never stop fighting. because we will stop the steal. stop the steal. stop the steal. >> and the peace. >> they were so funny. >> and we're out. >> we're doing it. >> we're on. >> we're live. >> okay. that was ed martin, who is now the acting u.s. attorney. i guess i have no earpiece for washington, d.c. always fun. live television. back on january 5th, 2021, pushing. donald trump's big lie. so it should come as no. surprise that. he is launching. a review of the prosecutions of capitol rioters. we'll explain that probe

straight ahead. plus, we'll have the latest on the immigration raids in major cities across the country and the high number of migrants arrested who do not have criminal records. also ahead, an fbi whistleblower has accused kash patel of violating hostage rescue protocols. we'll dig into that new development ahead of patel's confirmation hearing. meanwhile, two major conservative publications are calling on republicans to vote against trump's nominee to lead health and human services. we'll go through their arguments against rfk jr. and the markets are rebounding this morning after a massive selloff tied to a chinese ai program. we'll get insight on that from cnbc. good morning and welcome to morning joe. it is only tuesday if you can believe it january 28th tuesday. it's only tuesday. it feels like this is definitely a

thursday. feel right? no. >> yeah. thursday energy. >> yeah. major vibe of thursday. >> yeah. >> anyway. >> i'm kind of excited. >> we have i. >> wish it were monday because that would mean we'd. >> have five more. >> shows in front of us. but i'll take tuesday. >> okay. >> yeah. >> so exciting. only four. okay. along with joe williams. being the co-host of our fourth hour. jonathan lemire, he's now a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics. the host of way too early, ali vitale. i like that show. you do? thanks. yeah, you do a great job. we're doing a piece on her and know your value. i just interviewed willie and lemire about that. maybe. maybe that was. >> i wonder what they have to say. >> it's a hard. >> hard book. yeah. >> yeah. >> they were like the two old guys on the muppets. they were both interrupting each other. it was good stuff. >> good stuff. >> anyhow. msnbc political analyst anand giridharadas, he is publisher of the newsletter the ink, available on substack and rogers chair in the american

presidency at vanderbilt university. historian jon meacham is with us. he's an msnbc political analyst. and, joe, we have a lot to talk about this morning. >> we do. >> have a lot. >> to talk about, though. >> i feel compelled to go back to the. split of on. >> and please. >> rogers. chair of. >> history in vanderbilt, see you. because what's so, so interesting about the split screen is that anand is actually killing hamlet in the first act. this is the hairstyle that meacham was going to launch in the spring. >> yeah. >> but you beat you beat him to it. always. always. you can see, see around the curb on and see around the curb and. >> i tried i may not have a rogers chair, but i do have the ability to, you know, just to see what's coming. >> yeah. and fashion wise, you've done it again. you've done it again. john, do you care to respond? i just want to say i just. >> want to say. that when peter miller launches the meacham

line, the hair was supposed to go with it. yes. but, yeah, we're gonna have to. we're gonna have to revisit a lot of this. do a lot of blue sky and white wedding. so we'll be back with you. >> yeah, exactly. a lot more. a lot more market research in nantucket coming up soon to see what they can do. a couple of things i'd like to just share with everybody off the top and the front page of the new york times, extraordinarily moving scene from the 80th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz. and headline says it all on auschwitz anniversary. great sorrow for rising nationalism, of course, how shocking it had to be for so many, so many people, so many survivors and their loved ones and family members and all those tortured by what happened to 6 million

jews and the attempts to exterminate jews from europe. that that on the eve of that, you have one of the president of the united states, his closest allies, telling the german people to just get over it. enough of the guilt. just stop. the timing of that, of course, was as deplorable as so many other things that he's done in this area over the past, past week or so. i'm speaking, of course, of elon musk also. willie, the we talked yesterday and we're going to talk again today about the wall street journal editorial page and what it says about rfk jr. but here, this is quite, a quite a compelling piece talking about how donald trump needs to provide protection for the three men who did his bidding and the

killing of soleimani, something that i think many foreign policy experts would agree with. but let me just read a little bit from this. here's how arkansas senator tom cotton, chairman of the intelligence committee, put it on sunday, as the chairman of the intelligence committee, i've i've reviewed the intelligence in the past few days, the threat to someone involved in president trump's strike on soleimani is persistent. it's real. iran is committed to vengeance against all of these people. mr. cotton went on to say, it's not just about these men who helped president trump carry out the policy in the first term. it's about their family and their friends and innocent bystanders every time they're in public. it's also about the president being able to get good people and good advice. quote this tom cotton, if people are, say, going to work for the president now on iran or china or north korea or the mexican drug cartels, they might hesitate to

do so. or they might hesitate if they're in office, to give him the advice he needs or carry out the policies that he decides upon. excellent points, all, says the wall street journal editorial page. mr. trump hasn't explained his denial of security, but it should last as long as there are real threats to those who did their duty and are marked by death by an adversary because of it, it seems pretty straightforward. willie and the wall street journal editorial page is talking again specifically about these three trump cabinet officials, or three officials that were just doing their job, and now they have hits on them from the iranian government and no protection. and the one that most people are curious about is brian hook. here's a state department guy, kept his head down, did his job, envoy to ira. i like i said, i have been in meetings, i've been in dinners,

i've been in places where he's talking to policymakers and ambassadors always, always toed the company line, you know, never, never said anything derogatory about donald trump. and he's just he's just left out there. not that it matters. you should you should protect those who the iranians are trying to kill on your behalf anyway. but brian hook is a special case where he doesn't have the money to protect himself, his family. he's been a loyal foot soldier for the trump administration and others. >> yeah. i mean, private. >> security, we should say, is extraordinarily expensive. >> usually reserved. >> for very famous. >> music artists. >> and things like that who have the money to pay for something like that. not for a guy who worked in the state department. as you said, joe has a young family, got a knock on the door from his detail and said, they've taken us off the job, the car that's been in his driveway for a long time since all these threats from iran came in, left. and somehow, some way,

he's got to defend himself and his family from direct, explicit threats from iran. and as you say, the crime here is crossing perhaps subtly at times or disagreeing with donald trump. not in a big, public, showy way, but mike pompeo of anthony fauci. of course, we can add to that list. and you talked about tom cotton, senator lindsey graham on the sunday show said, i disagree with this move. we need to look at this again. we've got to give security to the people who really do need it. and yes, we're going to go along with most of your grievance campaign. it appears in this first week, mr. president, say republicans. but there are, at least in this one narrow area, some republicans saying we've got to look at this again for the safety and security of these people. >> and then there's this. the newly installed acting u.s. attorney for washington, d.c, is launching an internal review of the department's capitol riot prosecutions. ed martin, who has been an advocate for the january 6th defendants, made the

announcement in an email to justice department colleagues. martin referred to the review as project 1512, which is a felony obstruction charge that was used against hundreds of capitol rioters. the supreme court ruled last year that the charge was too broadly applied. martin wrote, quote, obviously the use was a great failure of our office and we need to get to the bottom of it. before he joined the trump administration, martin was a stop the steal advocate who spoke at the capitol on january 5th. it was on the grounds of the capitol during the riot, as the mob was breaching the building, martin tweeted. like mardi gras in dc today, love, faith and joy. ignore hashtag fake news. meanwhile, several career lawyers involved in the prosecutions against donald trump have been fired by the justice department.

specifically, more than a dozen officials who worked on special counsel jack smith's team, which investigated trump's handling of classified documents along with his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. in a statement to nbc news, a justice department official explained, quote, the acting attorney general does not trust these officials to assist in faithfully implementing the president's agenda. this action is consistent with the mission of ending the weaponization of government. willi. >> for. >> more on this, let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken delaney. and ken, good morning. if we can go back just for a moment to ed martin, we heard the soundbite there on january 5th and january 6th. he was on the grounds of the capitol saying, this is like mardi gras in a tweet. not only that, though, he was the attorney for at least 3rd january sixth defendants, one of the leaders of the patriot freedom project that advocated for january 6th defendants with these big

fundraisers at trump properties. so what exactly is his directive now as donald trump deputizes him to look into this? good morning willie. >> good morning guys. >> yeah. well as you said, he's asking the office to go back and investigate every use of that obstruction of an official proceeding. >> statute that. >> was. >> widely used to prosecute. >> many. >> january 6th defendants, and. >> then was. somewhat narrowed in a supreme. >> court ruling. he's portraying this as an inappropriate act. by prosecutors. >> something that needs to be investigated. >> and i. >> would just. >> point. >> out that this is the. >> office that prosecutes. >> crime in. >> dc, where. >> there is not an insignificant amount of crime. and this is at a time when the justice. department is suspending new hires. >> so there's a there's. >> a manpower. >> shortage, >> essentially, and. >> he's tasking an. undetermined amount of people to go back and look at all of these cases to see if anybody did anything wrong. instead of investigating crimes in dc and elsewhere. >> so it's quite. >> remarkable, but actually not unexpected, guys. so, ken, talk

to us about how this fits into a broader. >> look and. reshaping of the. >> department of justice. >> which of course, trump made. >> so, you. >> know, centered. >> during his. >> campaign firing. prosecutors involved in the jack. >> smith investigation. where is this? where else could this be going right now, as we all wait to see what happens with his selections for attorney general and fbi director? >> yeah. >> jonathan, i mean, i have to emphasize, look, elections have consequences, obviously. and when a new administration comes in, they do, first of all, all the political appointees of the justice department leave, which happened on january 20th. and they do change course, of course. and sometimes they reassign members of the senior executive service who. >> are. >> career civil servants, but actually. are sort of quasi political appointees. but this is goes way beyond that. this is a shock and awe campaign that the trump administration is waging at the justice department. and this act of firing these career prosecutors who worked for jack smith. this is really stunning. i mean, it's hard to explain to the public because they probably think, well, of course he's doing that,

right. they investigated the president and he comes in and he's firing them. it just doesn't happen. and it appears to have been illegal because these are people who have civil service protection. you can't just fire these folks. you have to have cause to fire them. there was no cause or proper cause given in that letter. no allegation that they did anything wrong or acted inappropriately or were incompetent. and so they're going to appeal these filings and they'll probably win, but it won't matter in the end because their careers essentially at the justice department are over. and many of these people were very accomplished career prosecutors. and it's sending a message to other people at the justice department, you know, get in line or your job is in peril. and i'm talking to people across the department who are sending me copies of memos that go out every day. there is a lot of deep, deep concern, not just about the typical change of policy that comes with the new administration, but a fundamental reshaping here and a message that is really tries to deter enforcement of the law.

>> all right. nbc news's ken dilanian, thank you so much for that reporting. we appreciate it. ali, it's very interesting that in so many of these things that are happening that are moving forward, ken was just talking about how possible civil service protections were violated in the firings of these justice department officials. you could look at the firing of the inspectors generals and, of course, that went against the legal requirements that the senate be given a 30 day notice. you look at the grants being frozen provided by the united states congress and therefore, within their constitutional realm, and not the president's to freeze it. and people talking about how that also will present great legal challenges. and you can go down the list. so many of

these things, there are legal questions on whether they're going to even be upheld or not. certainly they're going to be, you know, just dozens and dozens of legal challenges. and i suspect many of those will probably be held up. but that's not really the purpose, whether they get held up or not. that's really not the purpose of doing this all at once. right out of the gate, is it? i mean, this is, as ken said, it's a shock and awe campaign. and what sticks, sticks and what doesn't stick still sends the message. >> absolutely right. it's setting the tone and tenor of this administration. it is underscoring the fact that they won the election. and it also tells us a lot about the way that this washington is different than the one that trump walked into in 2017, both internally in the white house. there are far more people here who either learned the lessons of the last administration that they needed people around them who would not be checks on them, but they also learned how to

pull the levers of government. and then over on capitol hill, many of the folks who ever bucked the trump administration found the door themselves or were voted out of office because of primary challenges backed by more maga aligned candidates. so this really tells a story of the washington that trump is in. but then there's also the way that they are trying to do it. they have a very public campaign on things like immigration that polled quite well, that voters say that they voted for, and then they have the things that are really rooting out the parts of government and bureaucracy that don't work for them, the kinds of things where ken is able to say, well, i know people don't know this about career prosecutors, but that's the kind of stuff that americans might not latch on to as much, because it's not a hot button issue on the campaign trail, but it is the way that government functions and the way, frankly, that small d democracy stays stitched together, especially through the department of justice. >> so, yeah. >> jon meacham, i'm curious your thoughts on the firings and the other actions over at the justice department. and if you

want to just speak more broadly, more sweeping on what's happening with immigration, of course, as ali said, and, you know, many of these things popular with american people, certainly on deportation, on immigration cases, certainly up to a certain point. and also donald trump going in and sort of taking on this strongman role. that's what people voted for. while he was saying things that were deeply offensive to, to, to many of us, the american people are getting so far what donald trump promised them to do. you can talk about that on one side. on the other side, though, compare the firings of the ig's. compare the firings of the justice department officials. compare all of this activity over the first week or so with nixon, the saturday night massacre, the other things that we're we're we're used to talking about here, when we go back through history and talk about presidents pushing the boundaries of their

constitutional powers. >> yeah, this is the imperial presidency without any kind of constraint. it's a it's you're exactly right. it's what people voted for. there's no mystery here. there was no mystery. given the american experience of the last nine years. politically, it's a hallmark of not a democratic lowercase d system, but more of an autocratic one. i think you all are exactly right that it's not just the actual firings, the actual people going, but it's then the ensuing chilling effect. and i don't know about you all, but i, i know this just out in the wild, they're in different kinds of institutions. if you have any kind of

connection to the federal government, you are, you know, there are a lot of emails going around about what to how to watch yourself. and, you know, that's it's a devastating phrase, i think, because it has this kind of orwellian overtone that said, before, you know, people go crazy. you're right. there are some things that should be disrupted. but the issue with this particular disruptor, which i think of is this is a 14% question. so 35% of trump's base don't hold me to these exact numbers, but i think this is pretty close. would follow him anywhere for anything. the people who put him in power are a lot of the folks that we know pretty well. joe, you and i have talked about this endlessly. it's the 14% who are

maga adjacent who are doing it for taxes, or you did it for taxes and judges in 16. right. and then couldn't couldn't quite get there with vice. >> president, could not pull the lever for kamala harris. could not do it. they could not do it. >> and so they. >> they i i'm just emphasizing that john, i'm sure we have i'm just emphasizing that because for those that have that have one excuse after another excuse after another excuse, you'd go through and you'd go, well, you know, that's not true. well, you know, that's not the case. well, you know, that fact pattern is completely wrong. and then they just end up by going, i just can't vote for her like she's she is a san francisco radical 2019 debate, blah, blah, blah. but anyway, yeah, that that was that was their final that that was their final line of defense for voting for donald trump. >> and that's why i think the wall street journal editorial

page today, the piece you read about senator cotton, who i salute for saying this, saying what he said about the national security officials who in the defense of this country, put themselves and their families in harm's way. and then a petulant king is going to punish them. let's just be very clear here. we don't have to harshly attack everything president trump does. we don't. but when he does something that should be harshly attacked, it should be harshly attacked and chilling effect be damned. because if there's full on universal preemptive surrender, then we really are, as my grandmother used to say, past where the busses run, right? it's just it's just not going to be recoverable. and

again, not not being hyperbolic, i don't think i you damage something that is organic and fragile and tender at the best of times, and that's american democracy and american institutions. you damage it. it's very hard to fix it. and so when we therefore the argument is, i think that there's plenty to be fixed in american life and democracy, but do we have to do it so bluntly and with such an emphasis on the loyalty to a single person and not to the idea? >> right, right. and by the way, what you're saying is not radical or extreme. what you're saying specifically on what i brought up today and what i brought up over the past several days, i'm always reading from the wall street journal editorial page, whether it was

on releasing cop beaters, then that was their words that donald trump made a horrific mistake in releasing cop beaters and promoting violence in the future by doing that. but but also, of course, by yanking secret service protection from those who actually did his bidding in the killing of soleimani. and actually, as in senate intel chairman tom cotton says still have contracts on their head from radical leaders. the radical mullahs in iran. >> yes. so, historian jon meacham, thank you very much. we still need to get to anand on the ice, arrests a high number of people, by the way, who did not commit serious crimes. so we'll get to that. and also, coming up on morning. >> joe and mika, we also need to make note that jon meacham defined quote in the wilds. >> yes, he. >> says, out here in the wilds.

>> in the wilds. >> yeah. >> as i got that, i heard that it really. >> the bell, the bell. the belle meade country club. peter miller wearing membership of the belle meade country club. >> so everybody's. >> got their version. >> there's his. okay. >> everybody's got their voices in the wild. >> coming up on morning joe. we're learning. we're moving on now. learning harrowing new details about what some of the freed israeli hostages endured while being held in gaza by hamas. we'll dig into the details and have the latest from the region, plus, an fbi whistleblower has come forward with new information questioning the judgment of president trump's pick to lead the agency, kash patel. we'll have that new reporting straight ahead on morning joe. we're back in 90s. >> to. >> wrap. >> i have signed. smiling time to time.

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chinese artificial intelligence startup deep seek, releasing an open source ai model at just a fraction of the cost of its american competitors. deep seeks ai model appears to rival those from open ai, google and meta. despite the us government's efforts to limit china's access to cutting edge ai technology. joining us now the anchor of cnbc's worldwide exchange, frank holland. frank. good morning. the new york post, subtle as ever, warning of a red alert with the news of deep sea cure coming out. so just for people who are completely taken by surprise by this news yesterday and why the markets took it so hard, what is deep sea and why did it shake the markets? >> well. >> i mean. >> let's get. >> into this. right now. >> there is some optimism this morning. >> futures are. >> a bit higher as. >> you. >> noted s&p up about a third of a percent. but let's be clear the markets were certainly rattled yesterday. you mentioned nvidia's nearly $600. >> billion market. >> cap loss. it was a $2 trillion. >> loss yesterday overall.

>> so deep sea as you mentioned, chinese ai. tool that's open to developers and very competitive with us, proprietary models or closed models like a chatgpt. it's raising a lot of questions about the lead. >> that. >> the us. >> has over china when it comes to artificial intelligence, what companies are going to see the biggest benefit and what is the true value when it comes to stock price of our us mega-cap tech companies? you mentioned nvidia, other. >> companies. >> like alphabet. >> microsoft. >> etc, the whole list. so yesterday we saw microchip or semiconductor stocks like nvidia sell off ai infrastructure and energy stocks also sold off, reportedly. because largely because deep tech was reportedly and reportedly is the key word here. developed for about 6 million bucks and about two months, and again without some of the most advanced chips from nvidia. so if. >> this is all. >> true, if is again the key word, it's a major development that's making investors rethink their holdings of tech stocks and what it takes to be really competitive when it comes to artificial intelligence, the key word again is if we're not 100% sure if this was independently developed by a hedge fund, as the claims are, if it was really done in just two months, and if they really didn't have access

to advanced nvidia chips. dan ives from wedbush, really known tech voice. he said. if they did this with $6 million in under two months, he believes that he's playing in the super bowl with saquon barkley and the philadelphia eagles. just kind of just kind of asserting his his his questions about what's going on. so this is interesting. if you want to sound smart at a cocktail party this weekend, talk about jevons paradox. you're gonna hear a lot of people talk about this yet today. so the idea here is that the more efficient or inexpensive a resource becomes, demand increases. a lot of people think that's kind of the inflection point we are seeing with deep sea. if they could really build these less expensive models, it's actually a boost and a tailwind for the broader ai economy. sam altman, the openai ceo he said that nvidia ceo jensen huang, despite personally losing $20 billion. he's saying the same thing. we need all the help we can get to sound smart at cocktail parties. that's right. i'm going to use that one. frank. frank, frank, that's a gift, guys. enjoy it. before i let you go, frank, just quickly, is there a chance that the markets overreacted yesterday? in other words, the reason the stock fell is because

people said, oh my gosh, all this ai that companies and private equity firms invested in here in the united states is now obsolete because of deep tech. let's not count out google, meta and some of the american companies developing their own ai. well, i think the consensus is that yesterday was a knee jerk reaction and possibly an overreaction. but the question is that there's a lot of questions. again, a lot of ifs around deep sea, a lot of ifs. >> about what. >> the future is when it comes to ai development. but one thing we know from this point on, it's not going to be this, this one model philosophy, these closed models or proprietary models like a chatgpt open model is going to become more a part of the major discourse. so that could change what companies are in position to win, or at least seen as in position to win. by the way nvidia earnings. they come up in about three weeks. so a lot of eyes will be on those to see what that company says about demand. if there's any changes in demand related to this, we also have other big, big tech company earnings this week we're talking apple, meta, etc. so we're going to be listening for a lot of commentary from these companies about what this development

really means. all right. cnbc's frank holland doing a great job walking us through this. frank. appreciate it. jevons paradox enjoy it guys. thank you. i'm writing it down right now and we'll see what happens when the markets open. >> in. >> a couple of hours. >> yep. federal agencies stepped up immigration enforcement operations in cities across the country again yesterday that included dallas, denver, seattle and honolulu. in chicago, approximately ten separate teams of federal agents fanned out across the city to conduct operations there. nbc news rode along with one of the teams in chicago and was granted rare access to the ice processing facility, where detainees are being taken to be photographed, fingerprinted, and held until their deportation flights. at the same time, the number of undocumented immigrants rounded up by authorities on sunday was much higher than first reported. nbc news has learned that immigration authorities made close to 1200 arrests on sunday, up from the 956 reported by

immigrations and customs enforcement on social media. and nearly half of those detained do not have criminal records. that's according to a senior trump administration official. president trump and administration officials have repeatedly said they would prioritize the detention and deportation of undocumented immigrants who have committed serious crimes. and your thoughts on this? >> look. >> you know, i think there's always this gap between what they say they're going to do and what they do. and that is because what donald trump is interested in is using genuine public concerns that are out there and weaponizing them to then, do you know, much more sweeping things for which there is no mandate? right. so in this example, is there a i was on with you last, last week when we were talking about polling that shows there is support in the

country for deporting undocumented people with criminal records. there is support for that. so donald trump will talk about that and then kind of run on that. and then as you're seeing in the reporting just now, what they actually do behind the scenes, they trust will not really get out. and it is part of a different agenda they have, which is really to make america white again, which is part of their attack on everything from birthright citizenship to any number of programs, aid freezing various forms of aid that real people depend on. they have an agenda to make it harder for regular people to live in this country, and for immigrants to have to live and worry about whether they have their papers. we are going to become a kind of check your papers society in the blink of an eye. and there's no mandate for that. but that is what folks like stephen miller and steve bannon and others around the president actually want. they want to change the very fabric of this country,

something for which there is not that same mandate. >> and we know there's a showman part of this. >> we know that. this is partially spectacle for political points. how do. >> we know it? well, the. >> latest evidence. >> is newly. >> confirmed homeland. >> security secretary kristi noem. >> right now. >> is live tweeting. >> she's live tweeting a immigration raid in. >> new york city right here in new york city. right now, she's posted. >> a few times. >> this morning. >> landing in. >> new york, and now they're. >> carrying out this raid. >> she is saying the. >> person that this latest. >> clip shows is someone who does have. >> a criminal record. >> but there's also been reporting that donald trump. >> is unhappy. >> actually. >> these numbers aren't higher in the first week of his term. and that raises that tension point. if this does go and more and more we're already seeing it's happened some. but more and more people who do not have criminal records are indeed rounded up. >> do you. >> think that's the flashpoint for some sort of real pushback, public outcry, the sort of protest movement to, at least to this point, we haven't seen in this second trump term? >> here's what i think the real

tipping point is, and will be the thing that i would say donald trump deserves most praise for is that he intuited in 2016 and then again in 24, that there was an emotion out there among many, many people, a feeling undefended, a feeling unseen and unheard by the system, a feeling defenseless against chaos and entropy, and that political emotion was underserved, was under-recognized by those of us in the media, was underserved by the democratic party, was underserved by his own different flavor of republicans, and he was able to see that people wanted to be advocated for. now, i have every quibble with every actual thing he wanted to do to advocate for them. but but he he won for a reason. he won because he was able to see that when you start having gestapo raids in america and we start becoming a

country where, as in east germany, a knock on the door is the thing people are thinking about instead of the brilliant idea they want to go create. and then we are moving very, very far from his, the president worrying about what regular people need, right? he is distracting people with this flurry of activity. but none of this, none of these images you're seeing are going to make your life better. none of these things, contrary to popular belief, have anything to do with the still high price of eggs. none of these things will make it easier to start a business. none of these things will make it easier for people to get the education they need, change their lives, leave their kids better off. this is all a distraction, shock and awe, as you said earlier, so that donald trump can do one thing and you saw it at the inauguration telegraph to you and enrich his billionaire cronies, enrich his oligarch friends. that is what he is actually doing when he's not busy releasing his crypto coins. and all of this is sort

of bread and circuses for people to stare at while he's robbing you from the back. >> all right. msnbc political analyst anand giridharadas, thank you very much for your insights this morning. it's time now to take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. there is a shakeup in florida politics after republican lawmakers rejected governor ron desantis call for a special session on illegal immigration. instead, they introduced their own immigration bill and also overrode one of his budget vetoes. as the new york times reports, the rare move represents a dramatic break with a governor who has methodically expanded his executive powers. the wall street journal is reporting on a renewed effort by north korea to keep control over its population, particularly teenagers and young adults. hundreds of thousands of them have been plucked from their

daily lives to instead build houses, schools and hospitals. dictator kim jong un is particularly worried about the influence of foreign media, hollywood films and south korean television. possessing that content in north korea can result in the death penalty, and u.s. officials say israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu could meet with president donald trump in washington as early as next week. it comes as trump's middle east envoy is expected to travel to israel this week to discuss the prospect of securing a longer term solution to the conflict with hamas. and coming up, congressional democrats are asking why trump is not making good on his campaign promise to lower the cost of food as soon as he took office. we'll dig into the new letter they sent to the administration. morning joe will be right back. >> smile like you mean it.

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my dad taught me the measure of person. heard me say this before is how quickly they get back up when they get knocked out. that's what i have to do right now. and we've always done our best as americans. we never, never, never give up. never. we're leaving office, but we're

not leaving the fight. >> that was joe biden last week in his first speech as an ex-president, delivered just hours after donald trump's second inauguration. biden has not laid out specific plans for his post-presidency, but has said that he wants to be involved with the institutes bearing his name at the university of pennsylvania and, of course, the university of delaware. let's bring in new york times bestselling author jared cohen. he's the author of the book entitled life after power seven presidents and their search for purpose beyond the white house, and it was released last year, but it's now out in paperback and kind of timely in terms of joe biden's departure. so welcome back to the show. good to have you. thank you. so talk a little bit about the purpose of this book as we look through the lens at what joe biden's going to do. and you look at seven presidents. what did they have in common?

anything. >> well, so i. >> started writing. >> this book. >> because all. >> of us are confronted with this elusive question of what do we do next all the time? and i thought it would be interesting to answer that question by looking at the most dramatic transition in the world, president of the united states, where you kind of fall from the stratosphere of political power to just becoming an everyday citizen, i just didn't expect it to come out at a time where it had political relevance. right. it's always the dream of an author. but here we have only the second time in history that a us president has come back for a second nonconsecutive presidency, grover cleveland being the other. and he's one of the ones that i feature in the book as the comeback. >> yeah. and so we just heard from joe biden. he's saying he's not leaving the fight to talk about the presidents you do look at and how they were able to take it, transform their futures. >> so i look at. >> seven. >> presidents. >> what they. all have in common is that after achieving the pinnacle of power, they all found something that gave them a greater sense of purpose than

when they came to the white house. so in the case of thomas jefferson, it was founding uva. he worried that the republic that he co-founded was flawed. and if you didn't create a new university for the next generation, the republic wouldn't survive. john quincy adams went on to serve nine terms in the house of representatives. as an ex-president. we're in a much lower station. he found a much higher calling and became a leader of the abolitionist movement. cleveland obviously made a comeback. taft, who wanted nothing more than to become chief justice of the supreme court, unfortunately suffered the fate of his wife, his brothers and theodore roosevelt, his mentor and friend, wanting him to be president of the united states. so he kept turning down the supreme court. in the last ten years of his life, he achieved his dream, and at the end of life, he gets asked, does he remember being president? and he says, no, i don't remember being president. i finally have achieved my dream. so his story is kind of a lesson that a dream deferred doesn't need to be a dream denied. your book, also topical because jimmy carter is top of mind with his recent death and state funeral, where everyone was reminded about his extraordinary post-presidency,

some historians argue it might have been more consequential than his presidency. so what do presidents that follow jimmy carter take from his experience and his example? yeah. so it's interesting. so, so alexander hamilton in the federalist papers, you know, they were debating what to do with ex-presidents. and he said, you know, does it benefit the republic to have, you know, half a dozen men, you know, who are elevated to the presidency, wandering around the rest of us like discontented ghosts? i actually think carter answers hamilton's question because he was both a tremendous ally to his successors and a bipartisan nuisance to his successors. so he did amazing things, like when george h.w. bush sent him to panama to monitor the elections and stand up to noriega. but he also did very annoying things, like when he went to north korea in 1994, and bill clinton was surprised to hear him on cnn declaring that he'd, you know, sort of brokered a deal with the dear leader. >> first of all, i would love to be known as a bipartisan nuisance. i think that would be an excellent moniker. but as we think about biden's legacy, i'm wondering who of these

presidents that you profiled you think he might have the most in common with? especially because for biden, this is the culmination of 40 plus years in public life. and age is also a function to building a post-presidential legacy. >> well, this is unfortunately for biden. he doesn't have a ton in common with these these past presidents, because the post-presidency that i wrote about had a lot of time after they left office. and obviously, we hope biden, you know, lives a long and prosperous life in the post-presidency. but because of his age, he's almost beginning the post-presidency as a lame duck ex-president. and that's something that we've had in history. we had it with woodrow wilson after his stroke. we had it with chester arthur, you know, who was not in good health after he left. we had it with james polk, who was not in good health after after he left. and so it's been a long time since we've had a post-presidency where somebody has left office, really, you know, kind of at an advanced age and certainly never in their early 80s. this is an unprecedented moment in the post-presidency. so out of the seven presidents you. >> examine here, most of them, we hadn't mentioned herbert

hoover yet, but most of them have very active post-presidential lives still in some ways in public service, the exception being george w bush, who is still. >> with. >> us, of course, who seems very content to have nothing at all to do with with politics, except to show up to the occasional inauguration and make comments afterwards about how strange donald trump's speech was. >> yes, absolutely. so, so i'm glad you mentioned herbert hoover, because one of the things i tried to do in this book is make herbert hoover great again. you know, for a man who's. >> got a long. >> way to go, that's a. >> new hat for a man who lived to be 90 years old, to be defined by four years. his 32 year post-presidency was one of the most extraordinary post presidencies in history. he regains his status as the great humanitarian. he regains his status as a great executive, reorganizing the executive branch and in his final act of his post-presidency, jfk's father calls on him to broker a rapprochement between jfk and nixon to show the country healing in the midst of the cold war. but the reason i focused on george w bush in the last chapter of the book, and i spent about eight hours on the record with him. if you look at the

active post-presidency, at the time that i was writing, his was the only one whose popularity had gone up more than 50%, and he'd invested less in his legacy than anyone else. so i thought that was worth focusing on. i think some of it is his disciplined adherence to the washington principle of one president at a time, but he's also found a post-presidential voice through painting that allows him to elevate issues that he cares about without engaging in debates in the discourse in ways that undermine his successors. and out of all the presidents that i focus on, he's the only one that 100% of the time stays out of the fray. and that requires a level of discipline that no other ex-president other than him has had, and certainly not president trump during his interregnum. >> yeah. >> well, he stayed out of the fray at the same time, though, every year, the number of lives that were saved by pepfar goes up. it was 10 million, 12 million estimates. now that george w bush's pepfar program,

which many call one of the greatest government programs ever. in fact, nick kristof of the new york times says may be the greatest of his lifetime. now, the estimate is 25 million lives in africa saved by pepfar. and, of course, right now, with all the freezes, real concerns that the pepfar program is in danger of funding being limited. i certainly hope that's something that congress will step in and take care of. but i will say on the joe biden front, he can look to george w bush, somebody who left office with approval rating in the 20s. he can look to harry truman, the man who actually reached out to herbert hoover and said, i need your help with the refugee crisis in europe. and hoover did an extraordinary job with with the help and guidance of harry truman to really shape his post-presidency and alleviate massive suffering in europe and the greatest refugee crisis that we've seen since then. so, yeah,

it is there. there are many things that can happen, but sometimes just the passage of time as you get away from the heat and, and of presidential campaigns, the heat of, of the day in and day out, fighting and bickering, most presidents, their legacy grows. and i suspect the same will be the case with joe biden. regardless of what people are saying. at 12:01 a.m. after his presidency ends. >> i believe that for sure. the book life after power seven presidents and their search for purpose beyond the white house. it's available in paperback now. new york times bestselling author jared cohen, thank you, and great to have you on the show. thank you very much. take care. all right. still ahead, vanity fair is molly jong-fast joins us to discuss her new piece on the democrats fear factor. she'll explain that. plus, michigan governor gretchen whitmer is here, will ask her

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>> two minutes before the top of the hour. time now for a look at the morning papers. we begin in texas, where the austin american-statesman has a front page feature on republican governor greg abbott sending more troops to the southern border. yesterday, abbott announced 400 national guard members will head to the rio grande valley to help stop illegal crossings. this is on top of the 1500 active duty soldiers the trump administration deployed last week. joe said they're ramping up at the border. >> yeah, i this kind of reminds me, willie. it's a jackson browne song from the 1980s. i think it was last night. i heard the news from washington. the russians escaped while we weren't watching them. and, well, illegal crossings at the southern border are at six year

lows right now. this is let me say again, much like in 2016 when donald trump was talking about build that wall, build that wall, build that wall, build that wall, illegal crossings in the southern border at 50 year lows. when that campaign was run about the invasion, at the same time people were attacking barack obama for being the, quote, deporter in chief. again, i you know, i think you and i especially have been quite clear over the past four years that the southern border needed to be secured. it is not perfectly secured, but it's in better shape than it's been in about 5 or 6 years. so it's just interesting. everybody is moving. and right now this is this is certainly something joe biden should have done in 21, 22, the beginning of 23. but right now you just wonder how

much of this is just government by gesture. >> but and that's the point that for a lot of people, it was too little, too late from the biden administration that they came to this when they realized it really was a problem over the summer and in the fall. and by then, voters had been convinced of donald trump's argument that there was an invasion. but you're right. you've got governor greg abbott of texas deploying the national guard to the border. you've got american troops filing out of c-130s, arriving, putting up razor wire to shore up certain parts of the border. obviously, these ice raids and atf agents being used as well, a big show. you've got doctor phil going on ride alongs to attract the most possible attention. you've got secretary noem today going out this morning in new york city. she's arrived here in new york live streaming and posting about deportation raids that are happening. this is a big show and again, of a promise that donald trump made. none of this should be a surprise to anyone. a lot of people thought during the campaign, or even in the months since he won election,

he's saying a lot of stuff he's not actually going to do. we always encourage people to take him at his word and to believe him. and here it is. >> yeah, and he's doing it. and make no mistake, jonathan here, as we say every day, this is why donald trump got elected. and you look at what's happening in new york city right now. there has that. we don't have lamiere. barnacles here. i was talking about the russians escaping while we weren't watching them. lamiere does the barnacle irish goodbye. yeah. just left his jacket on the back of the chair and said, i'll. be right back. right. >> the coach. the coach took him out. it's like lebron. they take. >> him out. >> he's been benched. >> coach takes him out for. >> two minutes. >> before the tv timeout. he'll be back. >> it happens. >> this this is this is this is like a hockey game. he's like he's in the penalty box right now. okay. here you can skate back onto the ice soon. exactly. but but but you know mike again this is americans got sick and

tired of and not just in texas, but certainly in texas where you saw the border go red there, but also new york city. i heard from a lot of liberals, what are what are all these illegal immigrants doing all over new york city? eric adams, of course, started talking about this years ago before he decided to switch parties or leave the democratic party after about 1818, investigations were launched against him. but a lot of new yorkers in the middle of the summer last year were saying, man, the democrats are going to lose ground even in new york. this is out of control. so we're not saying that that this isn't popular and that there isn't a need to, to deport violent criminals out of the country. that said, you know, greg abbott sending more people to the border right now. i mean, maybe we wait until the numbers start

rising again. >> well, you. >> know, two things, joe. two elements of truth here. one, as you pointed out, border crossings are at the lowest they've been in several years. the other truth that you mentioned is that there was the biden administration should have in 21 and 22, just addressed it more strongly, more harshly, more punitively in terms of illegals coming across the border. but that gets you down to the end of the wire here. where what's going on now is just it's all about attention. he wants attention and he's getting it every single day, multiple times a day. i'm talking about the president of the united states. all he wants is the attention. look at me, look at me. don't shiny object over there. no, no. back here. and he does it multiple times a day, incredibly successfully. >> so joining the conversation, we have pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the washington post, eugene robinson and michigan's democratic governor gretchen whitmer is here. she's out now with a young adult edition of her memoir, true gretchen

lessons for anyone who wants to make a difference. and joe, i think it's a great time to have gretchen whitmer here, as there's a lot of talk about what the democrats, democrats can do, if anything, to push back at this time. >> i yeah, i definitely want to get to that. governor. i will say i would like to ask a question, what are your constituents in dearborn, michigan, saying right now that we're talking about genocide, joe, and how terrible joe biden was for the palestinians when he was fighting every day to get benjamin netanyahu to have a cease fire and get the hostages released and stop the fighting in gaza every day. he was fighting to try to do that, and yet he was being called genocide joe. and, oh, he's going to lose voters in dearborn, michigan. i'm curious for those who decided to vote for donald trump, how are they feeling now that he's talking about clearing out gaza of palestinians? >> all right. >> there's a lot of hurt. there's a lot of. >> concern and.

>> fear. >> as there. >> has been for. >> many, many. >> months now. >> and they didn't see this coming, did they not did they not see this coming when he talked. and he has people talking about the west bank like the biblically the palestinians have no right to the west bank. did they not see this coming? >> well, i think as mike barnicle said a little. >> bit ago, people are seeing. >> that. >> what he. >> said. >> all along. >> is true. and he's. >> executing exactly. >> what he told. >> the american. >> people he was going to do. >> the fact of the. >> matter is, though, we. have a diverse population. >> in michigan. >> it is the greatest. >> thing about my. state are the people who call it home. >> but it's never simple. >> and just. >> like saying. >> you're going to. >> enforce immigration. >> law, just like saying. >> you're going. >> to withhold federal grants. >> tariffs. it's not that simple. >> every one. >> of these policies impacts the american consumer. >> when you. >> think about tariffs. >> on mexico, that will. >> increase the cost of. >> your blueberries. >> when you think about. >> saying no. >> to canada. >> that means. >> you're saying yes to china. >> it means the cost.

>> of american. >> goods are going to. >> go up. >> and energy. every one of. these statements. >> or issues has. >> a. >> ripple effect on americans everywhere. but i. >> do think we continue to be very concerned about. some of. >> the not just the rhetoric. but the policies and where we're going. >> to. be headed as a country. >> yeah, congressional democrats are criticizing president trump for not making good on his campaign promise to lower the cost of food. in a letter to the president, the group of democrats write, quote, during your campaign, you repeatedly promised you would lower food prices immediately if elected president. but during your first week in office, you have instead focused on mass deportations and pardoning. january 6th attackers, including those who assaulted capitol police officers. in response, the white house says trump, quote, has already ended the failed economic policies of the past four years that skyrocketed inflation. senate majority minority leader chuck schumer

said this yesterday about trump's lack of action. >> the president. >> owes the american people some answers. what is he going to do about the price of eggs? it's been exacerbated by bird flu, when hundreds of thousands and even millions of chickens die. they lay fewer eggs, and when there are fewer eggs, the price goes up. so, president trump, what's your plan to stop the spread of bird flu? the more bird flu spreads, the higher egg prices will go and the less money in people's pockets for rent and gas and other expenses. >> this, in addition to illegal immigration, was central to donald trump's case, which is costs are too high. it's joe biden's fault. i'll start to bring them down on day one. obviously we haven't seen that because that's not how that works. presidents do not have the power to bring down inflation unilaterally. when you talk to your constituents in the state of michigan, i'm sure inflation is still top of the list of concerns. what else are you hearing in these early days

of the trump administration? what are they worried about? >> i think the. >> idle talk. >> about what tariffs could look like, right. >> lumping canada. >> and mexico in with china. it is we've got to be very strategic here. i'm not against. all tariffs. but we've got to be smart. >> about how. >> do we level. >> the playing field and. >> not put. >> a greater. strain on. >> the. >> american economy. you know. >> auto parts go back. >> and forth. >> over the border. >> detroit has the largest international crossing in north america, period. >> and people don't realize that. >> we always think about this. >> the southern border. >> we work. >> closely with immigration and federal agencies to make sure that. >> it is. safe and that it is predictable. but every time. >> you talk about putting a tariff on something coming. from canada, it means your. >> heating bill could. >> go up. it means the. >> cost of an. >> automobile, it means. auto jobs. >> this is the backbone of our economy, not. >> just in michigan but in our country. >> and it means greater. expense on the american consumer. >> and that's. >> why you can't just use a.

sledgehammer of tariffs. you've got to be use a scalpel. >> you've got to. be really. >> strategic about how do. >> we make sure that. >> the american economy. doesn't pay a price, that the. >> american consumer doesn't get pummeled? >> governor, i'm sure you're familiar with the strain on municipal budgets in michigan and everything like that due to people who are in this country illegally using hospitals, emergency rooms, schools, things like that. do you see anything wrong with sending people back to their country of origin who are here illegally? >> no. people that you need to have legal. >> process and. >> people need. >> to be here legally. >> and part. >> of the work that congress and the federal government must do. >> is. >> to ensure. >> that there is a way for people to enter the country legally. we do need to secure the southern border. i've sent the national guard in michigan down to help with surveillance under both the biden administration and the trump administration. that's important, but we need to treat people with dignity. we need to recognize that this is a country of immigrants. when you think about business, from. agriculture to tech, we're all

reliant on having a system that works, and the system we have does not work. and just punishing people isn't fixing it. >> governor, as democrats start to look forward into this next trump era, yes, there's going to be a focus on the sort of kitchen table issues that we were just talking about. but for the millions who voted for biden are now looking for the pushback and the check on the trump administration. who would you say or where should they be looking? who's the leader of the democratic party right now? >> well, the. >> thing is. >> we have great democratic governors all across the country. >> every one of. >> us is a leader in our states. is there one. >> person that leads. >> a whole party? no. maybe on the other side right now. but there is not. we've got a deep bench. i'm very. proud to be among a great group of governors and leaders across this country. we're going to be hiring our new dnc chair. we'll see how that goes. >> but any preferences? >> well, i've. >> endorsed ben wikler, and i think, you know, this is a moment where we can't say everything we've ever done is wrong. we got to recreate everything from scratch. >> we got to learn.

>> the lessons. we got. >> to listen. >> to the people. and that's part of what i talk about this really is how do we move forward? >> how do we stay. >> optimistic and do the work and win on important issues? and that's why i wanted to share this. it feels very heavy right now, but i want to make sure that people understand important fights are always worth waging. and the antidote to apathy is action. not putting your head in the sand or checking out. >> so, governor, we have michigan wolverine, jean robinson standing by. he's a question for you. >> go blue. >> indeed, governor whitmer, i know it's only been a week, but as a as a governor of a of a major state and a democrat, have you had any sort of contact? is there a point of contact with the new trump administration? have they reached out to you? have you reached out to them? how how do you see that relationship on a practical level going forward? >> i've done outreach and i've chatted. >> with a lot of people that

are. >> going to be. >> part of the administration. i will attend the national governors association meeting next month in dc and go to the dinner at the white house. a lot of republican governors boycotted when there was a democrat in the white house. i'm not going to do that. i'm going to continue to show up and try to find common ground. the people of michigan hired me, you know, elected me with big margins twice. and within two years of both those elections, donald trump got elected by michiganders as well. so my duty is to do everything i can for the state of michigan. and that means seeking collaboration wherever i can never means abandoning my values and standing my ground when i need to. but the people of michigan expect me to do my job, and that's why i'm stay focused on interesting. >> see? no problem going face to face with people you completely disagree with. >> i think you learn when you do. i think it's important that you have those conversations, and it doesn't mean you you shirk your job, your duties, or your swallow your values and not live your values. it means doing the work. and that's exactly what i'm going to do.

>> okay, joe. jump in. >> well, i'm going to test you, governor. does that include cheering for the chiefs and the super bowl when we both know the detroit lions should be there? we both know. >> putting her in. >> that the lions. no no no no it's not. this is very simple. you are in you are either for the lions or you are against the lions. is that correct, governor? >> you're either for the lions or you need some some help. >> exactly. okay, exactly. >> i want to hear about. >> gene robinson, though. they'll they'll. be back. jerry robinson, they will return. just like macarthur. >> going to. >> be okay. dan campbell. >> next. >> year. >> i shall return. >> i know they will be back. >> but there was a little football. >> game and the lions didn't win that football game. therefore they were not in the nfc championship game. so okay what can you say. >> yeah yeah good. >> next year is our. >> year is on the bench for this one. all right. tell us about

this version of your book which i love the focus on. it's for young young adults. and why. so when i wrote true. >> gretch, one. >> of the. >> greatest things was i had so many adults coming up to me and saying they were buying it for their kids. it's a quick read, with real lessons from my young life that i've used as governor. these are muscles you can use throughout the course of your life. and so we revamped it and included a q&a with my daughters at the end, and a lot more younger content for. >> my to address issues of our time, like what what young people are dealing with. i don't pull punches. >> like there's some heavy stuff in here. i was sexually assaulted when i was in college and that story is in here. the fight to expand and protect abortion rights in michigan and the long fight, and why you got to stay engaged. and then there are resources for people in the back of the book. if you've got mental health crisis or sexual assaults or other ways for young people to get a path forward. >> the young adult edition of true grit lessons for anyone who wants to make a difference is

out now. democratic governor of michigan gretchen whitmer, always good to see you. thank you for coming on the show this morning. thanks. really appreciate it. thank you. joe. >> hey, mike barnicle as newspaper legend. i want to just show you a couple of headlines in the newspapers and just get, get, get your reaction. we start, of course, with the 80th commemoration of the liberation of auschwitz. and, of course, inside the new york times talks about the heartbreak of many of these holocaust survivors over the rise of nationalism that right now is sweeping through their country. obviously, many distressed by elon musk choosing the eve of the auschwitz commemoration, the 80th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz, to tell germans to just get over it. his his exact words were to move past guilt

and turn the page. i don't think the german people want to do that. wall street journal also moving picture of a holocaust survivor there. i also want to talk about something we haven't really gone in length about. we've talked about the suffering of the people in gaza and our thoughts about them. i will say, though, hamas, you know, israel said that hamas would never rule gaza again when they went in there. and i will say the evidence coming out of these eight women and how they were brutalized, how many still had shrapnel inside them under their skin from the october 7th attacks of last year that were never treated? how, how, how some were kept in isolation, holed up in tunnels for months at a time, i think are up to eight months at a time. so bad was their psychiatric condition

that when they got out their mental health, they they all they knew how to do was whisper, because they had forgotten how to talk to people. when other hostages tried to comfort those who were suffering the worst, the hamas terrorists would not let them even hug each other to provide comfort. they were barbaric, which is what you expect from terrorists. but i must say, even after all the fighting to see hamas still lined up, the people that that brutalized these, these women, the people that brutalized hostages, the people still holding americans hostage, that these people are having a, quote, show of force in gaza as some of these hostages finally come home. and how much longer are they going to be held? i thought there was a ceasefire. i thought there was going to be hell to pay. and we're seeing they're trickling out. and as

they trickle out, what horrific, horrid stories coming from how these women were mistreated and abused. >> you know, joe, both stories that you referenced, the anniversary of auschwitz, the holocaust, hamas, incredibly inhumane behavior towards human beings, the strife and the look in gaza, an area of a country that has been totally destroyed, left in rubble, looks like dresden after world war two. after the fire bombings. it gives rise to the fact, the unfortunate fact that the level of inhumanity among human beings still exists today the level of hatred, the level of misunderstanding about what peoples are all about, different peoples, whether you're jewish or whether you're arab or whether you're israeli citizen, the level of lack of understanding and human compassion, we're devoid of it

in too many areas of the world. i don't know why they are still holding prisoners. i don't know why they haven't been ordered under under specific commands of perhaps something bad is going to happen to all of you members of hamas, unless all of the hostages are released. i don't get it. i don't get the whole hostage release treaty. you know, four weeks from now, we're going to release another three, three americans. we're going to resettle people at ten, ten weeks from now. i don't understand that, but i do understand the fact that people are irrational in their hatred of others because of another's religion or another's looks, or another's country of origin or another's gender. i don't get it. i don't get it. let's live a while and be peaceful with one another. see how that works out? >> well, we'll continue the conversation. we've got to take a quick break. now, coming up on morning joe, president trump joked about running for a third term during a speech to house

republicans yesterday. we'll go live to florida for more from the gop's annual retreat. also ahead, rolling stone is out with a list of the 250 greatest albums of the 21st century so far. we're breaking down the top picks. that's ahead on morning joe. >> i want the news from washington, the capital, the russians escaped while we weren't watching them. like russians will. now we've got all the clues. we've even got the moon. and i hear the u.s.s.r. moon. and i hear the u.s.s.r. will be over soon as businesses need shipping software that keeps up with their growth. with shipstation you can automatically sync inventory and manage returns across all your sales channels. ♪♪ so you fulfill your orders accurately. and ship the right products to the right customers.

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elevated design for thoughtful. >> living therma. >> something that i'm missing. maybe my head for one. what's worse, looking. >> jealous or crazy? >> jealous or crazy or like being walked all over lately. walked all over lately. i'd rather be crazy. hold up, they don't love you. >> like. >> i love you. slow down. they don't love you like. >> i love you. >> that was beyonce. smash hit hold up off her iconic 2016 album titled lemonade. in addition to receiving critical acclaim when it was released, the album has now been ranked by rolling stone as the best of its top 250 albums of the 21st century so far. joining beyoncé

near the top of the list are artists like taylor swift, kendrick lamar and radiohead, with us now reviews editor at rolling stone, jon dolan, jon. of course i love these lists because everybody can about them. so let me let me just jump right in. let me just jump right in. you somehow left off my favorite album of the 21st century. i'm an indie pop guy. i'll just say that right up front. but my favorite album of the 21st century actually is the stars your ex-lover is dead, which is an extraordinary album. did not make your cut, but i. let's go to some, some others. modern vampires of the city number 76. another favorite made it while vampire weekend and contra did not. let's let's start with vampire weekend. first, talk about what made modern vampires their best album. >> i think. >> for them. >> that record is a songwriting peak. it's a great kind of. >> coming of age album. >> it just seemed. >> like it kind of other stuff was leading.

>> up to what they did on that record. >> but it's. >> it's. >> tough with. >> these decisions. >> you know, it's like. >> we really want to kind. >> of include. >> the entire. >> scope of. >> the century. >> so far. so you have indie rock, you have classic rock, you have hip hop, you have r&b, you have reggaeton, you have afrobeats, you have country. >> metal. >> so many genres. and so we feel. >> in that case. >> it's just. >> that's a beautiful record. >> and i. >> think it really kind of. >> sums up what's. >> great about that. >> band a little bit better than their other records. >> well, and john, you know, that's what's so interesting back when, you know, rolling stone, i grew up reading rolling stone list would be like the top 100 albums of the 60s, or the 70s, or the greatest albums of rock n roll. basically, it was rock n roll. it was the beatles, the kinks, the rolling stones, stevie, you know, ray charles. et cetera, et cetera. and it was it was more in line. but man, things splintered so much with napster. then you had spotify, apple music, and i mean, there are so many different genres and subgenres. this really had to be

a beast for you to get your arms around. >> well. >> it was a lot to it's an. >> amazing. >> incredible kind of period. >> for music. >> the last 25 years. there's been so many changes, so many. >> genres, so many. >> different kind of. artists who've, you know, come to the fore. but i mean, one of the interesting things about music is, is kind of what you just alluded to, which is that when we went in 2000, people were still buying cds. they were paying $18 for cds. they were still listening to the radio to learn about music or watching, you know, a video channel that's that's completely gone. and for a while at the beginning of the century, in the early hours, it seemed like people were talking about the death of the album, that downloading was going to be a single track kind of thing. you're going to get songs on itunes or another illegal service or something, and that changed a lot with streaming, and the album really has come back. and now album releases are events kind of in the way you're talking about with the 60s, where some of these albums kind of look back the way we thought about, like revolver or sergeant peppers or blond on blond, that kind of love of the album as a

cultural event has really come back in the last, you know, 10 to 15 years. so and we tried to sort of, you know, sum that up. >> i hate to ask a political question because music is always my escape from all things politics, but i feel like in looking at that list, i need to. if you were to ask most people five years ago, who was the artist of the 21st century and who put out one album after another album, that was just mind blowing. they would say, without a doubt it would be kanye. i mean, one album after another push the boundaries influence. i'm wondering how much have have his missteps and when i say political, i actually shouldn't say that it's gone well beyond, quote, political missteps. but how much did you all have to wrestle with that as you were going down the list of best music? >> well, you know, he has four albums on the list, and they're

pretty much all from the period before the, you know, this kind of strange turn he took. and he is. that's a great example of someone who, at his best back in, you know, when he was making my beautiful dark twisted fantasy and yeezus and, and the college dropout was, was making these records that each one was a challenge to his fans, to himself. he was, you know, constantly shifting genres, constantly trying new things with the sort of turn he's taken. there's also been, i think, i think everyone would kind of agree, an artistic drop off as well. so with that, there wasn't much to wrestle about. he used to be awesome and now he's just less awesome. >> yeah. john lemire i just there are albums that encapsulate a certain time and, you know, hotel california is la in the mid 70s at their like most excessive sort of moment, you know, 2000. yeah. even 2001

i think of, i think of a couple albums. one of them is u2's all you can't leave behind, which just is that moment that pre and post nine over 11 moment. but there's another the strokes. is this it man. that was the new york album of like 2001 or so. and that comes in number ten on the list. >> yeah. no it's i'm. glad you paired those two albums for me. graduating college in spring of 2001, in new york city, living that experience. and then of course, september 11th, just a few months later. those two albums, in many ways were the soundtrack for me. and so many of my friends and really defined what was, of course, such an extraordinary and very difficult moment for the city. we found solace in, in, in those. john, let me ask you, though, about another artist more recent hit who's about to have a very big moment in the spotlight. that's kendrick lamar. you have him number six, one of his albums

there. he's of course, super bowl headliner in just two weeks time. he has just in the last year or so his super his soared to superstardom. he really feels like in many ways the artist of this time. >> i think that's right. i think i would say him and also taylor swift would be the two who really kind of define our time right now. i mean, i mean, kendrick is making news all the time. he was in this huge beef thing with drake. but the thing about that, all that stuff, all the drama around him really goes back to this album, good kid, mad city, which was really just almost like a novelistic kind of portrayal of his life. and if you look, he has three albums on the list. he has to pimp a butterfly and damn as well. it's the same thing where each one is just another step up, another step up in his, in his, in his art, in his, you know, in his ambition. and yeah, i think you hit it on the head. he's he's really kind of speaking right now to what's going on in the world. >> you know, john looking at the list and you know the 25 top ten, top 250 albums or whatever

you i had a serious flashback and i was thinking of years ago, driving along sunset boulevard in los angeles and seeing tower records on the right hand side, pulling over and going into tower records, a store filled with albums and records. whatever you needed. what is an album today? what does it mean today? >> that's a great question. what's incredible? imagine this scenario. you pull in there and someone comes up to you and says, hey, don't buy anything, because in a few years this will all be on your phone. every record ever made, ever will be in your pocket. and you'd think that could cheapen the music. but what's actually happened is it's taken away the dominance of things like radio stations, record companies, record stores. it's the artist and the and the fan having an incredibly intense relationship in the moment. i mean, when these records come out at midnight, people rush to their computers to like, respond to them right away. i mean, lemonade was like that. lemonade came out on a saturday evening. she put out a video for every song. it was a cultural event in

itself. when taylor swift put out folklore, it was the middle of the pandemic. people were, you know, really looking for something to, to, to, to sort of get them through this time. it was this intimate folk album. these are this is getting back to things like, like you mentioned hotel california. it's like they sum up their moment. >> yeah. rolling stone's list of the 250 greatest albums of the 21st century so far. online now reviews editor john dolan. thank you so much and more. what he was just talking about one more headline this morning pertaining to music. beatles legend paul mccartney is urging the uk government not to make a change to copyright laws that he says could let artificial intelligence companies rip off artists. the singer songwriter told the bbc it would make it harder for artists to retain control of their work and undermine britain's creative industries. >> you've got young guys, girls coming up and they write a beautiful song and they don't

own it and they don't have anything to do with it, and anyone who wants can just rip it off. i mean, the. truth is, the money's going somewhere, you know, and it gets on the streaming platforms. somebody's getting it, so. >> why shouldn't it be the guy who sat down and wrote yesterday, we are the people. you're the government. you're supposed to protect us. that's your job. so, you know, if you're putting through a bill, make sure you protect the creative thinkers, the creative artists, or you're not going to have them. >> sir paul mccartney. still ahead, rfk jr will be on capitol hill tomorrow and thursday for confirmation hearings. the controversial nominee to lead health and human services is receiving pushback from two conservative publications, who are urging republican senators to vote against him. we'll go through those pieces coming up on morning joe.

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democrats pushed to curb the president's pardoning powers. senator richard blumenthal says he plans to introduce a constitutional amendment on the matter. this comes after the recent presidential pardons by both joe biden and donald trump in florida. the miami herald reports on elon musk's brain chips going to be tested in the state, according to the paper. musk's startup company neuralink has tapped the university of miami school of medicine to be the second site in the country to test its brain chips. the goal is to give paralyzed people the ability to use their minds to wirelessly control computers, smartphones and other electronic devices. and in massachusetts, the boston globe is covering a new effort by state lawmakers to restrict students access to smartphones and personal electronic devices when they are in school. new legislation has

been introduced that would prevent student cell phone usage while classes are in session, and also require schools to have a policy educating students about the harms of social media use. the white house office of management and budget has ordered all federal agencies to temporarily halt spending on any financial assistance programs that could be targeted under president trump's executive orders. the freeze pauses funding for a wide range of priorities, from domestic infrastructure and energy projects to diversity related programs and foreign aid. with the exception of social security and medicare. the new order could affect billions of dollars in grants to state and local governments, while causing disruptions to programs that benefit many households. there was also widespread confusion over how the memo would be implemented, and whether it would face legal challenges.

jonathan lemire, walk us through this. what is exactly happening with this? >> yeah, well, there's a lot of confusion around this memo moved late last night. it goes into effect today. and as you just noted, it pauses all federal funding for these grants and loans to any agency that might have programs that could be that could be targeted by the trump executive orders, including die programs and the like. what we don't know is entirely how this is going to apply, because there's some language in there that says, well, it doesn't impact money directly to individuals, but something like section eight housing is actually a block grant to states and then down. so that could be something that's impacted that will have significant and immediate consequences. we know there's the four day pause as well, which is matters you know, globally. but this is right here at home impacting all americans, including trump voters. and we should be clear though, the law has the president has the ability to pause, briefly pause funding like this. the congress has the power of the purse. senator schumer last night already made clear this won't stand. the lawsuits at the ready. >> yeah, lawsuits at the ready.

because impoundment is the word. you're going to hear a lot of the idea that the federal government can't just be saying, oh, congress appropriated these funds, but we're actually not going to send them where congress says that we should send them. so when you're talking about programs that were approved in the inflation reduction act, as part of that big legislative push a few years ago, they can't just say that money is not going where it's supposed to go. so this is a pause. but when you look at omb and the fact that russ vought is likely to be the new head of that agency, he is someone who's dyed in the wool maga, pro-trump, a long time ally. so there are concerns about what omb might do with the future of this kind of legislation, of this kind of executive order. but this is two pages. were they carve out social security and medicare in a footnote, the fact that there are no specifications are the things that my sources are texting me about this morning. they don't really know what programs are going to be impacted. and so it means that americans, some people think this could impact things like snap food assistance, housing, as you mentioned, a lot of questions for people who are not in washington playing parlor games. >> well that's it. you just put

your finger on it. some of it is going to be life threatening to a lot of people. listen, mika, everybody knows that there's a debt level problem in this country. we're way, way over that limit. and we have to control spending. everybody appreciates that. but parts of this, as ali just referenced, the food programs that go to poor children in schools, the foreign aid programs where people, poor people in various countries around the world, the only reason they have water and food is the united states of america's programs. and those shut off immediately like that, i don't know. >> and a lot of this, not just this act, but we've seen in the last few days, this is from the project 2025 playbook that i know the trump team has disavowed. but this is all very familiar. there's a lot of questions here. first, press briefing by the new white house press secretary is scheduled this afternoon. expect her to be peppered with inquiries. >> all right. and, gene robinson, you have a new piece in the washington post entitled what the air force's tuskegee airmen mishap reveals about trump's di war. explain what you're writing about.

>> well, i'm writing over the weekend following the president's dei executive orders. the air force in in compliance, some would say malicious compliance, but in compliance said, okay, we're they pulled the videos of the heroics of the tuskegee airmen, the african american pilots in world war two, you know, celebrated story in american history. but they they pulled that saying they're unsure whether this qualifies as dei. and so that that was taken out of their training module for beginning airmen. and senator katie britt from alabama, where the tuskegee airmen trained, reacted immediately and said, you know, this is this is wrong.

obviously, this isn't what the president meant. and secretary of defense had said they immediately reversed that order. but it is unclear exactly what that those dei orders do mean. and this is going to be repeated, i think, everywhere in the government, black history month is about to start on saturday. so is that okay? is that like giving special treatment to black people? do we need a white history month to balance the scales? or is every month white history month? i don't you know, we don't know the answers to these questions. and they're not contained in these in these executive orders, because the president doesn't seem to know or certainly hasn't defined exactly what this awful thing dei is. it's he he doesn't

have a definition of it. and so who knows what's going to be taken away as a result of these orders? that's what i'm writing about, i think. i think he's doing it wrong. i think he's got a wrong definition if he has a definition at all. but that's where we are. >> yep. and he talked about it a lot during the campaign. jean, thank you so much. we'll be reading the new piece in the washington post and coming up on morning joe. democrats appear to be departing from their so-called resistance strategy in donald trump's first term, and focusing on the issue that cost them the election. we'll have new reporting on the party's playbook for trump 2.0. plus, we've booked one of the hottest reservations in new york city. chef mario carbone joins us with a new book marking a decade of his restaurant's iconic italian cuisine. morning joe will be right back.

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>> elevated design for thoughtful living thuma. >> today, an oligarchy is taking shape in america. >> of extreme. >> wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead. >> president biden warning of an

emerging oligarchy in the u.s, thrust the term into the spotlight oligarchy. with google searches spiking the night of his farewell address, asking what is an oligarchy? it's a system that's long been in place in russia, where only the most wealthy are afforded unique societal advantages, marrying into one of those families serves as the premise of a new book out today by new york times bestselling author joseph finder, entitled the oligarchs daughter, it takes readers through the perilous fictional story of new york hedge fund manager paul breitman and how his life changes after he meets tatiana, the daughter of a russian billionaire. and joseph finder joins us now. your your life, your study of russians. you went, let's say, a master in russian studies from harvard, russian major at yale. you speak

russian, right? you've done your research here. but i'm still curious what inspired the premise of this book. >> well, as a. >> russia watcher, i was fascinated. >> by the phenomenon of these russian. >> billionaires coming. >> over to the west. >> and buying mansions. >> and super yachts and. >> private jets. and basically acting. >> like merchant princes. and i sort of thought, this is a new gilded age. only in the gilded. >> age. >> the moneybags. were americans, and now the moneybags are russians. and while. >> i was. >> working on the book, russia invaded ukraine and the oligarchs were suddenly sanctioned and they were non-persons. and i thought, oh, man, that's the end of this book, until i realized there's a way of doing two timelines, one before the war and one during the war, so that we see the

progress of oligarchs from these powerful, rich merchant princes to these non-persons. >> so, joe, one of the one of the principal characters in your book is paul brightman. okay. he's building boats up in new hampshire, right? he's hiding from something. so who's in greater peril in the story? the oligarchs daughter or paul brightman? >> i think paul brightman, as our hero, is in greater peril. he is on the run. he is. he made the mistake of agreeing to cooperate with the fbi and inform on his father in law. his father in law is a russian oligarch with kind of shady connections to the kremlin, and so he's trapped between the fbi and the kremlin, and he's forced to go on the run. he actually disappears into a small town in new hampshire. i was talking to people who are experts in how

you disappear these days. >> it's easy. >> new hampshire, it's much. new hampshire is easy. yeah. you can no longer disappear into the anonymity of a big city. there are too many cctv cameras now. so what you really want to do is you want to disappear into a small town that doesn't have cameras like that, doesn't have facial recognition. and so i basically decided he was going to end up as a shipbuilder, dealing only in cash in a small town in new hampshire. >> so talk to us about the. >> oligarchs. >> the real oligarchs today in russia. obviously, their presence on the global stage curtailed because of the war in ukraine, but yet talk to us about their influence still there in moscow. >> well, the oligarchs were so powerful about 25 years ago, they made putin president. they elected him. they they boasted him. they put out biographies of him. and as soon as putin was inaugurated, he called the

richest men in russia into the kremlin and told them, you want to keep your fortunes and your mansions and your yachts and your jets, keep in your own lane, stay in your lane, stay out of politics. and to prove his point, he arrested the richest man in russia. a guy named khodorkovsky. put him on trial and sent him to the gulag for ten years. so the oligarchs today in russia are a lot less powerful than the oligarchs in the us are bezos and zuckerman and musk, who have who own media establishments contribute mightily to political parties in russia. they stay out of politics. they separate. yeah. >> okay. the new book, the oligarchs daughter, is available now. new york times bestselling

author joseph finder, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. and congratulations on the book. >> thanks for having me. >> all right. still ahead, cnbc's andrew ross sorkin is standing by at the nasdaq with the latest on how a chinese artificial intelligence company turned wall street upside down. yesterday. we'll get a look at how the markets are reacting this morning and what this means for the future of ai here at for the future of ai here at home. we're back men tell us when they use just for men® to eliminate gray, there's a great “before and after”. then, there's the 'after the after' — that boost you get when you look and feel your best. and that's why more men choose just for men®. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! —uh. —here i'll take that. [cheering] ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar and a protein blend to feed muscles up to 7 hours. ♪♪ dave's been very excited about saving big with the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. to feed muscles up to 7 hours.

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>> a fight. >> that will. >> go tonight. >> and tomorrow and the. >> next day. >> and the day after. >> and it. >> won't stop. what they're. >> stealing is not just an election. >> it's our future and it's our republic. and that's why we'll never stop. we'll never stop fighting. because we will stop the steal. stop the steal. stop the steal. >> that was ed martin, who is now the acting u.s. attorney for washington, d.c, back on january 5th, 2021, pushing donald trump's big lie. so it should come as no surprise that he is launching a review of the prosecution of capitol rioters. we'll explain that probe straight ahead. plus, we'll have the latest on the immigration raids in major cities across the country and the high number of migrants arrested who do not have criminal records. also ahead, an fbi whistleblower has

accused kash patel of violating hostage rescue protocols. we'll dig into that new development ahead of patel's confirmation hearing. meanwhile, two major conservative publications are calling on republicans to vote against trump's nominee to lead health and human services. we'll go through their arguments against rfk jr. good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is only tuesday, if you can believe it. january 28th tuesday. it's only tuesday. it feels like this is definitely a thursday. feel right? now. >> yeah. thursday energy. >> yeah. major vibe of thursday. >> yeah. >> anyway. >> i'm kind of excited we have i wish it were monday because that would mean we'd have five more shows in front of us. but i'll take tuesday. >> okay. yeah. so exciting. only four. okay. along with joe, willie and me. >> exciting. >> the co-host of our fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's now a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white

house and national politics. the host of way too early, ali vitale. i like that show. you do? thanks. yeah, you do a great job. we're doing a piece on her and know your value. i just interviewed willie and lemire about that. maybe. maybe that was. >> i wonder what they have. >> to say. it was a hard. >> hard book. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> they were like the two old guys on the muppets. they were both interrupting each other. it was good stuff. >> good stuff. >> anyhow. msnbc political analyst anand giridharadas, he is publisher of the newsletter the ink, available on substack and rogers chair in the american presidency at vanderbilt university. historian jon meacham is with us. he's an msnbc political analyst. and, joe, we have a lot to talk about this morning. >> we do have a lot to talk about, though i feel compelled to go back to the split of anand. yeah, please. rogers, chair of history in vanderbilt. see you. because what's so, so interesting about the split screen is that anand is actually

killing hamlet in the first act. this is the hairstyle that meacham was going to launch in the spring. >> yeah. >> but you beat you beat him to it. always. always. you can see. see around the curve, anand. see around the curve, and. >> i tried. i may not have a rogers chair, but i do have the ability to, you know, just to see what's coming. >> yeah. and fashion wise you've done it again. you've done it again. john, do you. >> care to respond? i just want to say i just want to say that when peter miller launches the meacham line, the hair was supposed to go with it. yes, but now we're going to have to. we're going to have to revisit a lot of this, do a lot of blue sky and white wedding. so we'll be back with you. >> yeah, exactly. a lot more. a lot more market research in nantucket coming up soon to see what they can do. a couple of things i'd like to just share with everybody off the top and

the front page of the new york times, extraordinarily moving scene from the 80th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz. and headline says it all on auschwitz anniversary. great sorrow for rising nationalism, of course, how shocking it had to be for so many, so many people, so many survivors and their loved ones and family members and all those tortured by what happened to 6 million jews in the attempt to exterminate jews from europe. that that on the eve of that you have one of the president of the united states, his closest allies, telling the german people to just get over it. enough of the guilt. just stop. the timing of that, of course, was as deplorable as so many other things that he's done in

this area over the past, past week or so. i'm speaking, of course, of elon musk also. willie, the we talked yesterday and we're going to talk again today about the wall street journal editorial page and what it says about rfk jr. but here, this is quite, a quite a compelling piece talking about how donald trump needs to provide protection for the three men who did his bidding and the killing of soleimani, something that i think many foreign policy experts would agree with. but let me just read a little bit from this. here's how arkansas senator tom cotton, chairman of the intelligence committee, put it on sunday, as the chairman of the intelligence committee, i've, i've reviewed the intelligence in the past few days, the threat to someone involved in president trump's strike on soleimani is

persistent. it's real. iran is committed to vengeance against all of these people. mr. cotton went on to say, it's not just about these men who helped president trump carry out the policy in the first term. it's about their family and their friends and innocent bystanders every time they're in public. it's also about the president being able to get good people and good advice. quote this tom cotton, if people are, say, going to work for the president now on iran or china or north korea or the mexican drug cartels, they might hesitate to do so. or they might hesitate if they're in office, to give him the advice he needs or carry out the policies that he decides upon. excellent points, all, says the wall street journal editorial page. mr. trump hasn't explained his denial of security, but it should last as long as there are real threats to those who did their duty and are marked by death by an adversary because of it, it seems pretty straightforward.

willie and the wall street journal editorial page is talking again specifically about these three trump cabinet officials, or three officials that were just doing their job, and now they have hits on them from the iranian government and no protection. and the one that most people are are curious about is brian hook. here's a state department guy, kept his head down, did his job as envoy to iran. i like i said, i have been in meetings, i've been in dinners, i've been in places where he's talking to policymakers and ambassadors always, always toed the company line, you know, never, never said anything derogatory about donald trump. and he's just he's just left out there. not that it matters. you should you should protect those who the iranians are trying to kill on your behalf anyway. but brian hook is a special case where he doesn't have the money to protect

himself, his family. he's been a loyal foot soldier for the trump administration and others. >> yeah. i mean, private security, we should say, is extraordinarily expensive, usually reserved for very famous music artists and things like that who have the money to pay for something like that. not for a guy who worked in the state department. as you said, joe has a young family, got a knock on the door from his detail and said, they've taken us off the job, the car that's been in his driveway for a long time, since all these threats from iran came in, left. and somehow, some way, he's got to defend himself and his family from direct, explicit threats from iran. and as you say, the crime here is crossing perhaps subtly at times or disagreeing with donald trump. not in a big, public, showy way, but mike pompeo of anthony fauci. of course, we can add to that list. and you talked about tom cotton. senator lindsey graham on the sunday show said, i disagree with this move. we need to look at this again.

we've got to give security to the people who really do need it. and yes, we're going to go along with most of your grievance campaign, it appears in this first week, mr. president, say republicans. but there are, at least in this one narrow area, some republicans saying, we've got to look at this again for the safety and security of these people. >> and then there's this. the newly installed acting u.s. attorney for washington, d.c, is launching an internal review of the department's capitol riot prosecutions. ed martin, who has been an advocate for january 6th defendants, made the announcement in an email to justice department colleagues. martin referred to the review as project 1512, which is a felony obstruction charge that was used against hundreds of capitol rioters. the supreme court ruled last year that the charge was too broadly applied. martin wrote, quote, obviously the use was a great failure of our office and we need to get to the

bottom of it. before he joined the trump administration, martin was a stop the steal advocate who spoke at the capitol on january 5th. it was on the grounds of the capitol during the riot, as the mob was breaching the building, martin tweeted. like mardi gras in dc today, love, faith and joy. ignore hashtag fake news. meanwhile, several career lawyers involved in the prosecutions against donald trump have been fired by the justice department. specifically, more than a dozen officials who worked on special counsel jack smith's team, which investigated trump's handling of classified documents along with his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. in a statement to nbc news, a justice department official explained, quote, the acting attorney general does not trust these officials to assist in faithfully implementing the president's agenda. this action

is consistent with the mission of ending the weaponization of government. willi. >> for more on this, let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. ken, good morning. if we can go back just for a moment to ed martin, we heard the soundbite there on january 5th and january 6th. he was on the grounds of the capitol saying, this is like mardi gras in a tweet. not only that, though, he was the attorney for at least 3rd january sixth defendants, one of the leaders of the patriot freedom project that advocated for january 6th defendants with these big fundraisers at trump properties. so what exactly is his directive now as donald trump deputizes him to look into this? good morning willie. >> good morning guys. >> yeah. well as you said. he's asking the office to go back. >> and investigate every. >> use of that. >> obstruction of an official. >> proceeding statute that was widely used. to prosecute many january. >> 6th defendants, and then was. >> somewhat narrowed. >> in a. >> supreme court ruling. he's

portraying this. >> as an. inappropriate act. >> by prosecutors. >> something that needs to be investigated. and i would just point out that this is the office that. prosecutes crime in dc, where there is not an insignificant amount of crime. and this is at a time when the justice department is suspending new hires. so there's a there's a. manpower shortage, essentially, and he's tasking an undetermined amount of people to go back and look at all of these cases to see if anybody did anything wrong. instead of investigating crimes in dc and elsewhere. >> so it's quite. >> remarkable, but actually not unexpected, guys. >> so, ken, talk to us about how this fits into a broader look and reshaping of the department of justice, which of course, trump made. so, you know, centered during his campaign firing prosecutors involved in the jack smith investigation. where is this? where else could this be going right now, as we all wait to see what happens with his selections for attorney general and fbi director? yeah. >> jonathan, i mean, i. >> have. >> to emphasize. >> look. >> elections have consequences, obviously. and when a new administration comes in, they

do, first of all, all the political appointees at the justice department leave, which happened on january 20th. and they do change course, of course. and sometimes they reassign members of the senior executive. >> service who are career civil. >> servants. >> but actually are. >> sort of quasi political appointees. but this goes way beyond that. this is a shock and awe campaign that the trump administration is waging at the justice department. and this act of firing these career prosecutors. >> who worked. >> for jack smith. this is really stunning. i mean, it's hard. to explain to the public because they probably think. >> well. >> of course he's doing that, right. they investigated. >> the president. >> and he comes in and he's firing them. it just doesn't happen. and it appears to have been illegal because these are people who have. civil service protection. you can't just fire these folks. you have to have cause to fire them. there was no cause or proper cause given in that letter. no allegation that they did anything wrong or acted inappropriately or were incompetent. >> and so they're going. >> to appeal these filings and they'll probably win, but it won't matter in the end because. >> their career.

>> is essentially at the justice department. >> are over. >> and many of these people were very accomplished. >> career prosecutors. >> and it's sending a message to other people at the justice department, you know, get in line or your job is in peril. and i'm talking to people across the. department who are sending me copies of memos that go out every day. >> there is a. >> lot of deep, deep concern, not just about the typical change of policy that comes with the new administration, but a fundamental reshaping here and a message that is really tries to deter enforcement of the law. >> all right. nbc news's ken dilanian, thank you so much for that reporting. we appreciate it. ali, it's very interesting that in so many of these things that are happening that are moving forward, ken was just talking about how possible civil service protections were violated in the firings of these justice department officials. you could look at the firing of

the inspectors generals and, of course, that went against the legal requirements that the senate be given a 30 day notice. you look at the grants being frozen provided by the united states congress and therefore, within their constitutional realm, and not the president's to freeze it. and people talking about how that also will present great legal challenges. and you can go down the list. so many of these things, there are legal questions on whether they're going to even be upheld or not. certainly they're going to be, you know, just dozens and dozens of legal challenges. and i suspect many of those will probably be held up. but that's not really the purpose, whether they get held up or not. that's really not the purpose of doing this all at once. right out of

the gate, is it? i mean, this is, as ken said, it's a shock and awe campaign and what sticks and sticks and what doesn't stick still sends the message. >> absolutely right. it's setting the tone and tenor of this administration. it is underscoring the fact that they won the election. and it also tells us a lot about the way that this washington is different than the one that trump walked into in 2017, both internally in the white house. there are far more people here who either learned the lessons of the last administration that they needed people around them who would not be checks on them, but they also learned how to pull the levers of government. and then over on capitol hill, many of the folks who bucked the trump administration found the door themselves or were voted out of office because of primary challenges backed by more maga aligned candidates. so this really tells a story of the washington that trump is in. but then there's also the way that they are trying to do it. they have a very public campaign on things like immigration that polled quite well, that voters say that they voted for, and then they have the things that

are really rooting out the parts of government and bureaucracy that don't work for them, the kinds of things where ken is able to say, well, i know people don't know this about career prosecutors, but that's the kind of stuff that americans might not latch on to as much, because it's not a hot button issue on the campaign trail, but it is the way that government functions and the way, frankly, that small d democracy stays stitched together, especially through the department of justice. >> coming up, our next guest has a plan to counter what she calls the democrats fear factor when it comes to pushing back at president trump. molly jong-fast explains, in our fourth hour of morning joe. >> buddy, you got it. >> during an. >> asthma attack. >> every second feels like an eternity. >> primatene mist works fast. >> it's clinically. >> shown to open. >> airways quickly. get the. >> number one fda. approved over-the-counter asthma inhaler primatene mist. breathe easy

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the new york post, subtle as ever, warning of a red alert with the news of deep sea cure coming out. so just for people who are completely taken by surprise by this news yesterday and why the markets took it so hard, what is deep sea and why did it shake the markets? well, i mean, let's get into this right now. there is some optimism this morning. futures are a bit higher as you noted s&p up about a third of a percent. but let's be clear the markets were certainly rattled yesterday. you mentioned nvidia's nearly $600 billion market cap loss. it was $1 trillion loss yesterday overall. so deep sea as you mentioned chinese ai tool that's open to developers and very competitive with us proprietary models or closed models like a chatgpt. it's raising a lot of questions about the lead that the us has over china when it comes to artificial intelligence, what companies are going to see the biggest benefit and what is the true value when it comes to stock price of our us mega-cap tech companies? you mentioned nvidia, other companies like alphabet, microsoft, etc, the whole list. so yesterday we saw microchip or semiconductor stocks like nvidia sell off ai

infrastructure and energy stocks also sold off, reportedly because largely because deep tech was reportedly and reportedly is a key word here. developed for about 6 million bucks and in about two months, and again without some of the most advanced chips from nvidia. so if this is all true, if is again the key word, it's a major development that's making investors rethink their holdings of tech stocks and what it takes to be really competitive when it comes to artificial intelligence, the key word again is if we're not 100% sure if this was independently developed by a hedge fund, as the claims are, if it was really done in just two months, and if they really didn't have access to advanced nvidia chips. dan ives from wedbush, really known tech voice. he said. if they did this with $6 million in under two months, he believes that he's playing in the super bowl with saquon barkley and the philadelphia eagles. just kind of just kind of asserting his his his questions about what's going on. so this is interesting. if you want to sound smart at a cocktail party this weekend, talk about jevons paradox. you hear a lot of people talk. about this. yet today the idea here is that the more efficient or inexpensive a

resource becomes, demand increases. a lot of people think that's kind of the inflection point we are seeing with deep tech. if they could really build these. >> less. >> expensive models, it's actually a boost and a tailwind for the broader ai economy. sam altman, the openai ceo. >> he said that nvidia. >> ceo jensen huang, despite personally losing $20 billion. he's saying the same thing. cnbc's frank holland, thank you. and coming up next here, we'll go live to miami for the latest on president trump's meetings with house republicans. nbc's vaughn hillyard is covering the republican retreat. he joins us straight ahead on morning joe. >> senator, back when you know, >> senator, back when you know, we should follow. dry... tired... itchy, burning... my dry eye symptoms got worse over time. my eye dplained the root was inflammation. xiidra was made for that, so relief is lasting. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra and seek medical help if needed. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort, blurred vision, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. before using xiidra, remove contact lenses

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>> my entire life has been spent preparing for the end times. >> my father. >> founder of the now. >> infamous oath keepers stewart. >> rhodes the. >> third, was going to save america from the end of the world. the big lie. >> is that there was some concerted plan near the capitol, and it just. >> wasn't what was becoming increasingly unstable. >> people are gravitating. >> to him like a son. >> i bet everything on him being. >> locked away forever. >> a federal agency stepped up immigration enforcement operations in cities across the country again yesterday that included dallas, denver, seattle

and honolulu. in chicago, approximately ten separate teams of federal agents fanned out across the city to conduct operations there. nbc news rode along with one of the teams in chicago and was granted rare access to the ice processing facility, where detainees are being taken to be photographed, fingerprinted, and held until their deportation flights. at the same time, the number of undocumented immigrants rounded up by authorities on sunday was much higher than first reported, nbc news has learned. immigration authorities made close to 1200 arrests on sunday, up from the 956 reported by immigrations and customs enforcement on social media. and nearly half of those detained do not have criminal records. that's according to a senior trump administration official. president trump and administration officials have

repeatedly said they would prioritize the detention and deportation of undocumented immigrants who have committed serious crimes. and your thoughts on this? >> look, you know, i think there's always this gap between what they say they're going to do and what they do. and that is because what donald trump is interested in is using genuine public concerns that are out there and weaponizing them to then, do you know, much more sweeping things for which there is no mandate, right. so in this example, is there a i was on with you last, last week when we were talking about polling that shows there is support in the country for deporting undocumented people with criminal records. there is support for that. so donald trump will talk about that and then kind of run on that. and then as you're seeing in the reporting just now, what they actually do behind the scenes, they trust will not really get

out. and it is part of a different agenda they have, which is really to make america white again, which is part of their attack on everything from birthright citizenship to any number of programs, aid freezing various forms of aid that real people depend on. they have an agenda to make it harder for regular people to live in this country, and for immigrants to have to live and worry about whether they have their papers. we are going to become a kind of check your papers society in the blink of an eye. and there's no mandate for that. but that is what folks like stephen miller and steve bannon and others around the president actually want. they want to change the very fabric of this country, something for which there is not that same mandate. >> so we know there's a showman part of this. we know that this is partially spectacle for political points. how do we know it? well, the latest evidence is newly confirmed homeland security secretary kristi noem right now is live tweeting.

she's live tweeting a immigration raid in new york city, right here in new york city right now. she's posted a few times this morning landing in new york, and now they're carrying out this raid. she is saying the person that this latest clip shows is someone who does have a criminal record. but there's also been reporting that donald trump is unhappy. actually, these numbers aren't higher in the first week of his term. and that raises that tension point. if this does go and more and more, we've already seen this happen some. but more and more people who do not have criminal records are indeed rounded up. do you think that's the flashpoint for some sort of real pushback, public outcry, the sort of protest movement to this, at least to this point, we haven't seen in this second trump term. >> here's what i think the real tipping point is, and will be the thing that i would say donald trump deserves most praise for is that he intuited in 2016 and then again in 24,

that there was an emotion out there among many, many people, a feeling undefended, a feeling unseen and unheard by the system, a feeling defenseless against chaos and entropy, and that political emotion was underserved, was under-recognized by those of us in the media, was underserved by the democratic party, was underserved by his own different flavor of republicans, and he was able to see that people wanted to be advocated for. now, i have every quibble with every actual thing he wanted to do to advocate for them. but but he won for a reason. he won because he was able to see that when you start having gestapo raids in america and we start becoming a country where, as in east germany, a knock on the door is the thing people are thinking about instead of the brilliant idea they want to go create. and then we are moving very, very far from his, the president

worrying about what regular people need, right? he is distracting people with this flurry of activity. but none of this, none of these images you're seeing are going to make your life better. none of these things, contrary to popular belief, have anything to do with the still high price of eggs. none of these things will make it easier to start a business. none of these things will make it easier for people to get the education they need, change their lives, leave their kids better off. this is all a distraction, shock and awe as you said earlier, so that donald trump can do one thing and you saw it at the inauguration, telegraphed to you and enrich his billionaire cronies, enrich his oligarch friends. that is what he is actually doing when he's not busy releasing his crypto coins. and all of this is sort of bread and circuses for people to stare at while he's robbing you from the back. >> coming up, how democrats are crafting a new playbook for trump's second term. what house minority leader hakeem jeffries is telling his caucus that's straight ahead on morning joe.

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beta prostate. >> come on up! >> time now to take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. there is a shakeup in florida politics after republican lawmakers rejected governor ron desantis call for a special session on illegal immigration. instead, they introduced their own immigration bill and also overrode one of his budget vetoes. as the new york times reports, the rare move represents a dramatic break with a governor who has methodically expanded his executive powers.

the wall street journal is reporting on a renewed effort by north korea to keep control over its population, particularly teenagers and young adults, hundreds of thousands of them have been plucked from their daily lives to instead build houses, schools and hospitals. dictator kim jong un is particularly worried about the influence of foreign media, hollywood films and south korean television, possessing that content in north korea can result in the death penalty, and u.s. officials say israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu could meet with president donald trump in washington as early as next week. it comes as trump's middle east envoy is expected to travel to israel this week to discuss the prospect of securing a longer term solution to the conflict with hamas. coming up, former president biden condemned anti-semitism in his first message on social media since

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thoughtful living therma. >> msnbc premium gives you early access and ad free listening to rachel maddow chart topping series, msnbc original podcasts, exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> it's important to remember. >> that for. >> all the statistics. >> and square mileage. >> and. >> square footage. and number.

>> of people displaced, they're. >> all individual. people with their. >> homes. with their lives. >> driving around, there's almost nothing left standing. occasionally you'll see a house that's okay or a street that's okay, but that's occasional. >> i continue to. >> see, and. >> i want. >> to shout out one more time, the first responders. >> who are responding in this mutual aid effort. >> from all over southern california. >> it really. >> has brought out. >> the best and most. >> inspiring part about. >> human beings. >> i know for many years they experienced their up and downs, but we have to stay with it. my dad taught. me the measure of a person. heard me say this before is how quickly they get. back up when they get knocked out. that's what we have to do right now. and we've always done our best as americans. we never, never, never give up. never. we're leaving office. we're not leaving the fight. >> that was joe biden last week in his first speech as an ex-president, delivered just

hours after donald trump's second inauguration. biden has not laid out specific plans for his post-presidency, but has said that he wants to be involved with the institutes bearing his name at the university of pennsylvania and, of course, the university of delaware. let's bring in new york times bestselling author jared cohen. he's the author of the book entitled life after power seven presidents and their search for purpose beyond the white house, and it was released last year, but it's now out in paperback and kind of timely in terms of joe biden's departure. so welcome back to the show. good to have you. thank you. so talk a little bit about the purpose of this book. as we look through the lens at what joe biden is going to do, and you look at seven presidents, what did they have in common? anything. >> well. >> so i started writing this book because all of us are confronted with this elusive question of what do we do next all the time? and i thought it would be interesting to answer

that question by looking at the most dramatic transition in the world, president of the united states, where you kind of fall from the stratosphere of political power to just becoming an everyday citizen. i just didn't expect it to come out at a time where it had political relevance. right. it's always the dream of an author. but here we have only the second time in history that a us president has come back for a second nonconsecutive presidency, grover cleveland being the other. and he's one of the ones that i feature in the book as the comeback. >> yeah. and so we just heard from joe biden. he's saying he's not leaving the fight. talk about the presidents you do look at and how they were able to take it, transform their futures. >> so i look at seven presidents. what they all have in common is that after achieving the pinnacle of power, they all found something that gave them a greater sense of purpose than when they came to the white house. so in the case of thomas jefferson, it was founding uva. he worried that the republic that he co-founded was flawed. and if you didn't create a new university for the next generation, the republic

wouldn't survive. john quincy adams went on to serve nine terms in the house of representatives. as a next president, we're in a much lower station. he found a much higher calling and became a leader of the abolitionist movement. cleveland obviously made a comeback. taft, who wanted nothing more than to become chief justice of the supreme court, unfortunately suffered the fate of his wife, his brothers and theodore roosevelt, his mentor and friend, wanting him to be president of the united states. so he kept turning down the supreme court. in the last ten years of his life, he achieved his dream, and at the end of life, he gets asked, does he remember being president? and he says, no, i don't remember being president. i finally have achieved my dream. so his story is kind of a lesson that a dream deferred doesn't need to be a dream denied. your book, also topical because jimmy carter is top of mind with his recent death and state funeral, where everyone was reminded about his extraordinary post-presidency, some historians argue it might have been more consequential than his presidency. so what do presidents that follow jimmy carter take from his experience

and his example? yeah. so it's interesting. so, so alexander hamilton in the federalist papers, you know, they were debating what to do with ex-presidents. and he said, you know, does it benefit the republic to have, you know, half a dozen men, you know, who are elevated to the presidency, wandering around the rest of us like discontented ghosts? i actually think carter answers hamilton's question because he was both a tremendous ally to his successors and a bipartisan nuisance to his successors. so he did amazing things, like when george h.w. bush sent him to panama to monitor the elections and stand up to noriega. but he also did very annoying things, like when he went to north korea in 1994, and bill clinton was surprised to hear him on cnn declaring that he'd, you know, sort of brokered a deal with the dear leader. >> first of all, i would love to be known as a bipartisan nuisance. i think that would be an excellent moniker. but as we think about biden's legacy, i'm wondering who of these presidents that you profiled you think he might have the most in common with? especially because for biden, this is the culmination of 40 plus years in public life. and age is also a

function to building a post-presidential legacy. >> well, this is unfortunately for biden. he doesn't have a ton in common with these these past presidents, because the post-presidency that i wrote about had a lot of time after they left office. and obviously, we hope biden, you know, lives a long and prosperous life in the post-presidency. but because of his age, he's almost beginning the post-presidency as a lame duck ex-president. and that's something that we've had in history. we had it with woodrow wilson after his stroke. we had it with chester arthur, you know, who was not in good health after he left. we had it with james polk, who was not in good health after after he left. and so it's been a long time since we've had a post-presidency where somebody has left office, really, you know, kind of at an advanced age and certainly never in their early 80s. this is an unprecedented moment in the post-presidency. >> of seven presidents you examine here. most of them we hadn't mentioned herbert hoover yet, but most of them have very active post-presidential lives still, in some ways in public service, the exception being george w bush, who is still with us, of course, who seems very

content to have nothing at all to do with with politics, except to show up to the occasional inauguration and make comments afterwards about how strange donald trump's speech was. >> yes, absolutely. so, so, so i'm glad you mentioned herbert hoover, because one of the things i tried to do in this book is make herbert hoover great again. you know, for a man who's. >> got a long way to go, that's a new hat. >> for a man who lived to be 90 years old, to be defined by four years. his 32 year post-presidency was one of the most extraordinary post presidencies in history. he regains his status as the great humanitarian. he regains his status as a great executive, reorganizing the executive branch and in his final act of his post-presidency, jfk's father calls on him to broker a rapprochement between jfk and nixon to show the country healing in the midst of the cold war. but the reason i focused on george w bush in the last chapter of the book, and i spent about eight hours on the record with him. if you look at the active post-presidency, at the time that i was writing, his was the only one whose popularity had gone up more than 50%, and he'd invested less in his legacy

than anyone else. so i thought that was worth focusing on. i think some of it is his disciplined adherence to the washington principle of one president at a time, but he's also found a post-presidential voice through painting that allows him to elevate issues that he cares about without engaging in debates in the discourse in ways that undermine his successors. and out of all the post-presidency that i focus on, he's the only one that 100% of the time stays out of the fray. and that requires a level of discipline that no other ex-president other than him has had, and certainly not president trump during his interregnum. >> coming up, a live report from the nasdaq on yesterday's bombshell news involving china's push on artificial intelligence, cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins the conversation straight ahead on morning joe. >> there's a star man waiting in >> there's a star man waiting in the sky. he's still have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis... ...or crohn's disease symptoms after taking... ...a medication like humira or remicade? put them in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill.

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d.c. a little before 9:00 am there, and it's. welcome back to morning joe. time now for a look at the morning papers. we begin out west in nevada, where the las vegas review-journal reports that republicans now outnumber democrats in the state's voter registration numbers for the first time in nearly 20 years. voter registration numbers have changed significantly since the state's automatic voter registration system took effect in 2021. this comes as the state has seen a decrease in registered voters for both parties due to voter roll purges. to california now, where the sacramento bee reports on a new bill that would allow victims and insurance companies to seek damages in court from fossil fuel companies after weather disasters. according to the paper, supporters of the bill say it could reduce insurance premiums by allowing insurers to recoup costs from fossil fuel companies accused of

misleading the public about the consequences of their products, rather than relying solely on rate increases to wisconsin. the milwaukee journal sentinel reports on how republican lawmakers are attempting to limit the governor's partial veto authority by amending the state's constitution. the proposal would allow the governor to only veto entire bill sections instead of individual words. a spokesman for the democratic governor, tony evers, says lawmakers should instead give voters the power to raise the issue via a constitutional amendment. and lastly, in texas, the el paso times reports on how state education policies are taking a toll on teachers. a recent survey found that an overwhelming majority of teachers in the state have considered leaving the classroom over the last year, and note that they have deep concerns over the impact that school

vouchers may have on public education. 69% of k through 12 teachers surveyed have considered quitting in the past year, while nearly 75% report experiencing burnout. and that's a real crisis not just in texas, but other states, too. >> absolutely. >> especially after the pandemic, which really strained so many educators. >> are still feeling the effects of it. so we roll now into the fourth hour of morning joe just before 6 a.m. on the west coast, 9 a.m. in the east, along with jonathan lemire. we have special correspondent at vanity fair and host of the fast politics podcast, molly jong-fast. the trump administration is stepping up its immigration enforcement operations this morning, with federal officers tracking down and arresting undocumented immigrants across the nation. meanwhile, the white house has ordered a pause on nearly all federal grants and loans, potentially impacting trillions in government spending. we have two reports for you, starting with nbc news senior white house

correspondent gabe gutierrez. >> reporter this. >> morning, an escalating crackdown nationwide on illegal immigration. >> federal officers. >> on the move in major cities. newly confirmed homeland security secretary kristi. noem in new york watching this arrest just this morning. >> how busy. >> has this been over the past week? busier than. >> we've seen. >> in a while. >> the number of daily arrests rising. a senior administration official telling nbc news ice arrested nearly 1200 undocumented immigrants in one day. roughly half had criminal records. >> in addition to being in the country illegally. >> if somebody is here illegally. >> whether or not they've. >> committed no crimes. >> there is. >> that. >> possibility that they could be, you know, arrested. >> we saw one. >> enforcement operation. firsthand in chicago. we're now heading to the northwest part of the city. yesterday, they couldn't find one particular 25 year old. >> from. >> mexico with a lengthy criminal history. >> but this morning. >> a surveillance team has just seen him at work.

>> and that's. >> where. >> we're going. >> agents move in arresting christopher. lara from mexico. >> ice says. >> he has a criminal record, including. convictions for. >> home invasion and. aggravated battery. >> this is the one that's coming in. nbc news also getting rare. access to an ice processing center. >> where we found lara arriving. >> in handcuffs. he denies the charges. against him, saying. >> he deserves. >> a second chance. >> i went to school my whole life here, from preschool all the way to my senior year. >> he says if. >> he's deported. >> back to mexico. >> he'd leave behind a. >> five year old daughter. >> he does. >> have serious. >> charges and. >> convictions. >> so i understand he has a daughter, and that's unfortunate, but we still have a job to do. and we still have to follow the law. >> meanwhile, after a brief feud with. >> columbia over accepting. >> deportation keys, president. >> trump now. threatening tariffs for any country that gets in the way of his. >> mass deportation effort. >> we've made it clear to every country that they will be taking back our people, that we're

sending out the criminals. >> but for the families left. >> behind, it is agonizing. this woman's father. >> was just arrested. he's lived here many. >> years, she says. it breaks my heart. >> this morning. another sweeping action by president trump as he remakes the federal government in his first full week in office. >> thank you very much, everybody. >> overnight, nbc news learning that the white house has ordered a freeze of federal aid starting at 5 p.m. today. >> my administration has been moving with urgency and historic speed to reverse every single disaster of the biden administration. >> the new head of the government's budget office saying in an internal memo obtained by nbc news that the pause extends to, quote, all federal financial assistance and activities affected by president trump's recent executive orders, including foreign aid, non-governmental organizations, di woke gender ideology and the green new deal. the memo says social security and medicare will not be affected, and

neither would payments directly from the government to individuals. but many americans get federal funds on everything from loans to food aid to farm assistance indirectly. and it's unclear if those programs would be affected. the order says it's targeting the parts of the government that will be changed by president trump's recent executive actions. that could include everything from some efforts to lower prescription drug costs, to clean energy, jobs and programs. congressional democrats overnight saying the president's actions, quote, put the financial security of our families, our national security, and the success of our country at risk. the trump administration argues the government needs to align with, quote, the will of the american people as expressed through presidential priorities. >> we got rid of the woke. we got rid of the woke crap. >> it's part of a series of recent actions from president trump, including executive orders on the military yesterday focused on rolling back diversity, equity and inclusion, and recognitions of transgender service members. and he said

building an iron dome style missile defense system around the country. >> we protect other countries, but we don't protect ourselves. >> that was nbc's peter alexander with that report. let's now bring in nbc news white house correspondent vaughn hillyard, live from south florida, where house republicans are gathering for day two of their issues. conference at president trump's golf resort near miami. vaughn, i'm old enough to remember that when if donald trump suggested holding a legislative retreat at one of his properties, in this case, doral people would be up in arms about that. and now we all everyone just looks the other way. no pushback at all from republicans. so let's set that aside and instead talk about the agenda there. what are republicans plan to do and what is their reaction to that stunning memo that peter just mentioned last night, ordering a halt, a halt to all federal grant and loan funding? >> jonathan, good morning. we're

waiting for the republican house lawmakers to make their way here for the second day of their annual retreat, to begin to ask them some of these questions, because let's be very clear. if you just take the last 24 hours, the amount of news that is coming out related to the federal government in washington, hour to hour, is just remarkable. even just yesterday afternoon, while president trump was speaking at the donald j. trump grand ballroom to the gop house conference, that's when we were reporting in real time that more than 50 career civil servants at usaid were being placed on administrative leave in just about a half hour after it was becoming known that doj officials who worked on special counsel jack smith's team investigating donald trump were also terminated. this is a moment here where, as president trump was delivering his remarks to this conference here i was talking to marjorie taylor greene as lawmakers were making

their way out after his remarks. and i was direct with her asking the her about the extent of conversations between not only house republicans, but senate republicans in the white house about their strategy ahead of the march 14th government funding expiring and the need to pass a budget deal, and then therefore, soon after, the debt ceiling limit being reached later on this spring. and, of course, the idea that they're going to pass one major reconciliation package that includes immigration and energy policy spending, as well as tax cut extensions. there is a lot on republican's plate here, but for donald trump's sake, when he was delivering his remarks, there was not much in the form of specifics. it kind of sounded more like a campaign rally speech. and that's where i put to congresswoman greene specifically like, what are those conversations looking like? you know, because even if you go back to december, when they were passing that short term budget spending agreement, the there was essentially blown up by donald trump and elon musk. what was a bipartisan

agreement between the house and the senate? and it really kind of threw things into chaos for a couple of days. and she told me, well, that's that's the purpose of us being here is to have those conversations. but she said she's warning her colleagues to get moving because the ides of march await. >> yeah. and to underscore some real divisions still among republicans, whether there should be one giant bill or two to try to push forth trump's agenda. vaughn, one thing that i wanted to bring up was this idea one again, donald trump floated the idea of running for president another time. and this is something that his team may say, oh, he's just joking when he does it. but we have had this now happened a number of times. and in fact, a republican lawmaker in recent days said he actually would take steps to try to see if there was a legislative path to changing the constitution to allow him to run again. talk to us about just this latest effort here of trump, even just in rhetoric, just sort of suggesting to him that all roads, all power run through him. >> right. he did it on saturday at a campaign event in las

vegas. and then yesterday he did it in front of the entire house conference, suggesting that this may not be his final campaign. and, well, there was kind of an awkward knowing chuckle from speaker johnson and other leaders that were on stage with him. it's one of those another, again, questions that we're going to be asking republican lawmakers in the hours ahead, because there's definitely an angle to this. you're looking at one congressman introducing legislation that would effectively give donald trump the constitutional ability to go and be able to run for a third term. and when you're looking at where would the resistance lie, there's a lot of open ended questions to that. would this come down to states trying to disqualify him or not allow his name to appear on the ballot? because you're looking at a if you're just looking at the gop house conference, you're not seeing many folks who are necessarily going to be a resistance force to donald trump's political prowess and campaign operation. that

undoubtedly would raise hundreds of millions of dollars again. and who exactly in the republican party would challenge him? i mean, there's a lot of questions to this, but i think it's worth noting at some point when you say something enough times, it's questionable whether it's a joke and whether it's actually an acknowledgment of a potential serious intention. >> nbc news white house correspondent vaughn hillyard live for us in south florida. vaughn. thank you. mika. two notes. first of all, we should the legislation that representative ogles is drafting would allow trump to serve another term, but not, say, barack obama, because it would need the executive. and also, this is another moment, as a smart republican operative pointed out to me last night, just how deferential speaker johnson is being to him. this is the head of a co-equal branch of government, not acting like that at all. he's simply acting like he's one of trump's employees. >> yeah. as vaughn mentioned, more than a dozen officials who worked on special counsel jack smith's team, which investigated trump's handling of classified documents along with his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, have now been fired by

the justice department. in a statement to nbc news, a justice department official said, quote, the acting attorney general does not trust these officials to assist in faithfully implementing the president's agenda. this action is consistent with the mission of ending the weaponization of government. meanwhile, the acting u.s. attorney for washington, d.c, is launching an internal review of the department's capitol riot prosecutions. ed martin made the announcement in an email to justice department colleagues before he joined the trump administration. martin was a stop the steal advocate who spread conspiracy theories about the attack on the capitol and represented at least 3rd january sixth defendants. martin also spoke at the capitol on january 5th, and one was on the grounds during the riot itself. he was tweeting as the mob was

breaching the building, martin tweeted, like mardi gras in dc today. love, faith and joy. ignore hashtag fake news. okay. joining us now we have former fbi assistant director and former legislative counsel at the department of justice, greg brower. what is your take, greg, on these latest moves? >> well. >> i guess i would say, mika, first of all, they're unprecedented. that may be the simplest observation to make. both the doj moves and the inspector general firings are things that we've not seen before with respect to the doj firings. these seem. >> to be career. >> positioned people who do have certain rights and will likely appeal their dismissals. and so we are used to, as you. >> know. >> a new administration coming in and changing all of the political appointees, both presidential appointees and those serving at that layer or

two below them. but we've never seen anything like this, and we certainly haven't seen anything like this with respect to the ig. so what i'm watching is, is the congressional reaction with respect to the ig's, in particular, the ig's work for congress, senator grassley and others have been big champions of the ig community. it's important that we have a robust ig corps. and so i suspect this is going to raise a lot of attention in congress on both sides of the aisle. and that's what i'm looking for next. >> so you mentioned the ig firings in a questionable legal move on friday, president trump fired multiple independent inspectors general from the defense, state, labor and health and human services departments, among others. now, trump defended his actions saturday, saying, quote, i did it because it's a very common thing to do. i don't know them, but some people thought that some were unfair or were not doing the job. despite that explanation, the legal justification stands

on shaky ground. a law passed in congress in 2022 requires a 30 day notification from the white house to congress, should they choose to let go of an inspector general. the white house must also give congress substantive reasoning for the firing. greg, you yourself were an inspector general for the u.s. government publishing office from 2004 to 2007. and i'm curious your reaction to this news. >> well, as i said earlier, this really is unprecedented. it is, to be clear, the president's prerogative to remove igs that he or a predecessor appointed. but as you point out, mika, there is a 2022 law on the books that requires in such situations that notice and a reason be given by the president to congress. that did not happen here. so again, it will be very interesting to see what senator grassley and others in the

congress and in fact, there is now an ig caucus in the congress, a bipartisan group of members who recognize the value of the ig community and have expressed a desire to support the ig. it will be interesting to see how they respond to this, but it is not a normal thing to replace igs like that. certainly, no one would would argue that the igs have jobs for life. and again, the president does have the prerogative to replace them when appropriate. but this is unusual. and i'm looking to senator grassley and others to respond and to ensure that we do have an independent, robust, nonpartisan ig corps working to help congress with its oversight responsibilities. >> hi. >> greg. >> it's molly jong-fast. >> it's not just unusual. it's sort of beyond any scope in modern presidential history. can you say more about that? and also, can you speak to who

wasn't fired? >> well, i frankly had expected that president trump, upon stepping in for a second term, may. just fire all of the igs that he did not appoint. and again, it would be his prerogative with with due notice and explanation to congress. but the group that we saw fired the other night didn't really fit that description. i believe a majority of them were actually appointed by president trump previously. so to your point, molly, yes, this is this is not the way transitions have normally worked. and although the president does have the prerogative to do so, these igs serve arguably at the pleasure of the president. but again, it's a little different than most appointees who serve at the pleasure because of this 2022 law. but i really think it's up to congress to react to this and to decide just how robust and how effective and how independent they want the ig corps to be. again, after all,

the igs work for congress in doing oversight of the executive branch. and if congress doesn't want them to be independent, well-funded and effective, i guess that's congress's prerogative. but that would be a major departure from the past. >> former fbi assistant director and former legislative counsel at the justice department, greg brower, thank you very much for your insights this morning. so this thursday. kash patel will appear before the senate judiciary committee as he looks to become the next fbi director. and this morning, there are new concerns over his nomination. cbs news reports a bureau insider has come forward with new information questioning patel's judgment during sensitive hostage rescue missions. the whistleblower reportedly worked with the fbi's hostage recovery fusion cell, according to cbs. the whistleblower alleges that patel violated firmly entrenched

protocols to keep such operations under wraps until the captives are safely in u.s. hands and their families have been notified. in a letter obtained by cbs news, senator dick durbin, the ranking democrat on the senate judiciary committee, wrote that patel, while serving on the national security council during the first trump term, broke protocol regarding hostage rescues by publicly commenting without authorization on then in-progress retrieval of two americans held captive by iranian backed militants in yemen. in october of 2020. the letter states that the wall street journal published a story in which patel confirmed the two american captives, and the remains of a third were exchanged for 200 houthi fighters who were being held in saudi arabia, according to the letter. the news report was

published several hours before the hostages were in the confirmed custody of the united states. while the americans involved did return home safely. fbi officials involved were livid over the leak, calling it reckless and say it could have risked tragic results. nbc news has not viewed the letter in question. jonathan lemire there are a couple of different concerns about kash patel thinks that he has said this as though directly connected, perhaps, to the job he would be doing. >> yeah, it certainly is. we also know that he has had published an enemies list in the back of his his book. we heard from attorney general pam bondi in her own hearing a week or so back, suggesting that that wouldn't be the case, that it wouldn't he wouldn't go after such enemies. but that, as we've talked about at the time, that hearing really became about patel, he's going to face a lot of sharp questions this week.

another member of trump's cabinet, who is going to be in the spotlight this week is robert f kennedy jr, trump's choice to lead the department of health and human services. he'll sit for his own confirmation hearings tomorrow and thursday, and the new york post editorial board is telling senators to vote no on him. that piece reads in part this way robert f kennedy jr, still a radical left lunatic who is anti-energy a big time taxer and completely incoherent about our nation's health. no republican can vote for this guy. no senator. should the president and his team insist that rfk jr has been fitted with a policy straitjacket that certain areas, such as vaccines and objecting to energy strategy are off limits? but in truth, the only straitjacket suitable for rfk jr is a real one. the senate can save president trump here from someone who will become a millstone around him and his agenda. this is a choice borne of a political pact of which

they were not a part. we sincerely believe trump would live to regret a secretary kennedy. we know that the united states would. that sentiment echoes the wall street journal editorial board, which argues that rfk jr is a danger, is dangerous to public health. that piece reads in part. most troubling is his long record of anti-vaccine advocacy. in the past, he has claimed that the measles vaccine causes autism, despite reams of studies that have found no causative link, and that the polio vaccine might have killed many more than the actual virus, deadly infectious diseases disappeared because of better hygiene, not vaccines. that's what he asserts. the risk is high that mr. kennedy will use his power and pulpit at hhs to enrich his trial lawyer friends at the expense of public health and medical innovation. and molly, what's so striking about these words? they both

appear in papers owned by rupert murdoch. >> yes, i. >> was listening to you read that thinking life is long enough that i agree with rupert murdoch. look, there are a lot of reasons to oppose this. rfk cabinet nomination, the vaccine stuff, the raw milk stuff, the i mean, you know, he has very controversial views on health. and it's not super surprising to see rupert murdoch's two of his papers come out with editorials today. but i think that we've seen now that there are three republican senators who will vote against a trump nominee. so let's see if there are four. >> and, mika, what's so interesting is those two editorials attacked kennedy from very different ways. so if republicans are looking for a way out, they could choose their own path. >> yeah. all right. as the new trump administration begins to take shape, congressional democrats are crafting their own strategy in responding to republicans. let's bring in nbc

news senior national political reporter sahil kapoor. sahil, you have some new reporting on the democratic strategy. what are you hearing? >> that's right. >> mika. well, long story short. the second. >> the first. >> sorry. the second resistance will not be the same as the first. democrats are drawing on lessons from the first trump administration in the 2024 election. what worked for them, what didn't, and reorienting strategy to get back to basics, trying to convey to voters that they're the party who will have your back on economic and pocketbook issues. unlike republicans, they say, let me take you back to last week. within 48 hours of president trump getting inaugurated, house minority leader hakeem jeffries held a private meeting with democrats and warned them that the administration is going to flood the zone and that democrats could not afford to chase every single outrage or nothing was going to sink in for the voters. that's according to a source in the room who i spoke to the next day. here's what he told reporters. take a listen. >> the house. republican contract. >> against america. >> is an. extreme plan. >> that will. not lower.

>> costs for everyday americans. >> it will make. >> our country more expensive. >> and that's. >> going to sum up the democratic message for the coming weeks and months that republicans don't have a plan to address the concerns at the kitchen table. it means democrats will focus less on cultural issues. we saw lots of them vote for the lake and riley act to crack down on undocumented immigrants and nonviolent crime. we also saw them refuse to take the bait on trump's taunts over transgender rights, which they call a trans, a distraction from the lack of a republican agenda. senator adam schiff, who is in some ways the face of the first resistance, told me, quote, i think we have to pick our fights and not chase after every crazy squirrel. he said things like the renaming of the gulf of mexico and other absurdities. democrats will let go. instead, he said, they'll focus on the stuff that really matters. the trade wars that he said will raise costs on people. mass deportations that will raise food prices, and the pardoning of criminals who beat police. and now the focus on tax cuts for really rich people.

notice how schiff is connecting the pardons and the mass deportations to kitchen table issues. that is deliberate. now, one big thing democrats have zeroed in on is the reconciliation agenda pushed by trump and republicans, which they call a big tax break for wealthy people, paid for by cutting benefits on middle class americans. senator brian schatz, the hawaii democrat, told me that his party will talk every day about what a rip off this whole enterprise is. his words. he added that democrats have not been good at focusing. they talk. one thing you know about one thing one week, another thing the next week. and he begrudgingly admitted that trump is extraordinarily skillful at commanding attention. so one of the things he says democrats are going to do is make a conscious effort. whatever else is going on, their message is going to be they are ripping you off. that strategy faces another test today with its aggressive new white house budget memo calling for a freeze to most federal aid as part of trump's agenda, which democrats are excoriating as a lawless move by trump to hold up vital funds that americans need. >> mika nbc's sahil kapur, thank you very much for your reporting

this morning. we appreciate it. and, molly, your latest piece for vanity fair is entitled the democrats fear factor. explain what you're writing about. >> so i wanted to write about sort of the culture of consultants and how a lot of democratic presidential nominees and this is not about them ideologically or personality wise. it's really about the sort of anxiety that they functioned with and how the. consultant cost was not serving them. and i talked to a bunch of different people in that world, a lot of whom wanted to speak anonymously for. obvious reasons, and just sort of. how afraid these candidates were and how they didn't necessarily debunk things. >> for example. >> they. didn't go. >> on. shows that. >> they. >> felt might give them trouble. >> you know. >> they were. >> so concerned. with the data and the negatives that they. didn't maybe engage. >> in some. >> things that might have felt reckless, but really engaged

returns. >> yeah. like it seems they're attached to a script to an extent. is that fair to say? >> yeah. >> i. >> think that's. >> absolutely fair. and i would say, look, right now is a moment to engage in the trump. i mean, again, there's a lot to not like about the way trump ran for president, but he kept going and he flooded the zone with media. so much so that democrats really couldn't get a word in. and for example, they did a really good job talking about project 2025, which now we see with this office of management and budget memo is here, right. we see that they're going against this impoundment control act of 1974, which was put in after nixon, as a way to keep the president from trying to override congress when it comes to the power of the purse. and that's what we're seeing right now. now, democrats need to be really clear in messaging that, because that is not that is not how any of this is supposed to work. and it's technically it should go this should go right up the legal

chain. >> really quick. and democrats are about to lose one of their better, authentic communicators. michigan senator gary peters just told the detroit news he will not be seeking reelection in 2026, meaning an open seat in a battleground state. he'll be left by the party. >> okay, coming up, the chinese company deep sea roiled wall street yesterday, wiping out $1 trillion from the stock market's value. we'll have a look at what today's session is poised to look like. plus, the embattled social media app tiktok may have finally found a buyer. we'll tell you who it is when cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us straight ahead on morning joe. >> carry a compass to help you along your feet. >> and here we go. consumer cellular uses the same towers as big wireless but then passes the savings onto you. >> so i get. >> the. >> same fast nationwide coverage if. >> i switch. >> yup. >> for unlimited talk and. >> text with reliable. >> coverage and your.

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it brings people together in meaningful ways. >> right here. >> in. >> the usa. >> with that quality. >> and care that you and. >> your pet deserve. >> join the whisker. >> family and try. >> a litter robot today! >> a powerful new chinese. >> ai tool. >> called deep. >> sea is. >> threatening the. >> us dominance. >> of this emerging technology. >> deep sea is. >> on par. >> with what. >> openai and google have made.

>> even though those. >> companies are sinking billions of dollars, tons of years, and lots of development into this space, deep sea did it for cheaper in a matter of months. >> hey! >> who would have expected. the chinese. >> to do. >> it cheaper? i can't. >> believe it. >> it's as though when. >> you. >> don't have. >> labor laws or. >> rights. >> and by. >> the way, deep seek. >> deep seek. >> we're getting our kicked. >> by deep seek. >> who names an ai company after the thing. >> it. >> actually does? >> where are your random letters? where's your gpt? >> your grok? >> deep seek? >> sounds like. >> what you might. >> use. >> it for. china's even beating us. >> at naming. >> by the way, i. >> do.

>> know this. >> is bad. >> news financially, but. >> is anyone else somewhat excited that. i had its job replaced by ai? >> that's something. >> pretty good there from jon stewart, but a serious matter. the american chipmaker nvidia suffered the worst market value drop in u.s. stock market history yesterday, with shares plummeting and wiping out $600 billion in value. tech stocks across the board fell as investors considered the ways that china's deep sea technology was passing the u.s. in the race to build the most sophisticated artificial intelligence. and let's bring in the co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box, the new york times columnist andrew ross sorkin. andrew, it is rare to have a story that landed with such an earthquake like this one did. how is 24 hours now processing later? how's wall street taking it? >> you know, i think wall. >> street's trying to understand what's really happening here. we

talked about this. first yesterday. and in fact. >> some of this was raised. >> even in davos last week by some of the executives who were starting. >> to. >> look through. >> what the prospects. >> and potential impact this all could have. i think we. don't know. >> you know, you put up. >> a screen, i think it was maybe even a fox screen from earlier that was showing what the chinese had done this for $5.6 million, and anthropic, which is one of the big ai companies in. >> america that runs something called. >> cloud, had done it. >> for $100. >> million, or maybe even. >> $100 billion. was the number. >> i think we don't really know what the chinese. have actually. >> done here. >> we mentioned. yesterday on the broadcast. >> for example, this. >> idea that maybe. >> they've had. >> access to some. >> of the highest end nvidia chips that frankly, they were not supposed to have. access to. >> that's possible. there have been. >> accusations, by the way, that. >> they were. >> scraping and. otherwise building. >> on top. >> of some of the large language models that have been built in the united. states already, including lama and potentially open ai and other things. so i think a we don't know exactly what's going on here. what we do

know is that no matter. >> how. >> you square things up, that this open source. >> software, which. >> is free. >> uses less. >> power and is more efficient. and if. that's true. how much of that dynamic fundamentally shifts in terms. >> of how. >> much these companies are spending? microsoft came out last week and said they're going to spend $80 billion building out infrastructure. openai presenting it with president trump, saying they're going to spend $100 billion, up to $500 billion on infrastructure. it's not just the infrastructure of the chips. therefore. >> then you. >> have all the energy companies that we're going to be impacted on the other. >> end. >> of it. and so there's so many. >> component parts. >> to this story, which. >> if in fact. >> this is, you know, orders of magnitude lower. >> power usage. >> lower need. >> for. >> chips and all of that, and it's all free. how it changes the dynamic. interestingly apple by the way their stock up on the back of this news, they had not invested heavily in this. in

fact people. thought apple was way behind on ai. but now potentially they could not only catch up but leapfrog ahead because they won't need all this. infrastructure that everybody else has. >> so there's so many developments that we will follow in the days and weeks ahead. but andrew, briefly turning from one chinese owned company to another, tiktok and rumors may have found a potential buyer. well. >> i you. >> know. >> let's see. >> where this all goes. but president trump talking about potentially microsoft being a buyer of this company, he would like to see a deal. >> he says with them, but also. >> has talked about trying to create an auction and a bidding process. it's worth noting back in the. first trump presidency, there was. >> a conversation. between microsoft and walmart. >> interestingly. >> and oracle. >> trying to buy tiktok even back then. oracle of course, now housing a lot of the data center. for tiktok here in the united states, something called project texas. it has all the data, doesn't have the algorithm, which has been the big sticking point for this. this algorithm still lives in

china. and so the big question, of course. >> is from. >> a security, national security. >> perspective. >> does the algorithm come with tiktok? >> if a microsoft or an oracle or somebody else were to buy. >> it or not? and that seems to be the linchpin. >> of it all. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you. we will talk to you again very, very soon. so. technology entrepreneur reid hoffman is hoping that artificial intelligence will help cure cancer. the co-founder of linkedin recently helped raise nearly $25 million for an ai cancer research startup. that venture will focus on developing drugs targeting breast cancer, prostate cancer and lymphoma before broadening its scope to include other illnesses. and reid joins us now. he's the coauthor of a new book titled super agency. what could possibly go right with our ai future? and reid? we'll get to the book in just a moment. but first, can we just get your reactions to what you have learned about deep seek in the last 24 hours? how what do you make of it? how could this

change things? >> well, exactly what andrew ross sorkin said. >> there's a. >> lot of. open questions. and. >> you know. >> i think that the likelihood it was. >> trained for as little money as. it said, it seems very unlikely. >> it also seems likely that they actually to. >> train these. smaller models, which you already knew in the us, you have to. >> have access. >> to and. >> use larger models. >> like the llama, chatgpt, etc. so look, i think. >> it's. >> extremely important. >> and interesting result. >> i don't think that that suggests. >> that the large models are actually not essentially valuable in creating things like deepfake. >> okay, so let's turn now to what you're hoping to do. tell us more about the good. we hear a lot about the worries people have about ai, the sort of scary future that it could portend. but its advocates say a lot of good can be done with it. it's hard to imagine something a better cause than curing cancer. talk to us about that. so. >> you know, as. >> you as you mentioned. >> the general discourse. >> and actually human history, when a new major technology comes along, whether it's the printing press, electricity. the

car, it's, oh my god. >> everything's going to. >> go wrong, right? like society is going to break, human agency is going to. >> break, etc. >> and yet. >> when we look. >> at the end result like. >> we can't have this. >> society without the printing press, electricity. >> the computer, etc. it turns out that. >> it massively increases human agency. >> and part of. >> that increase of human agency is when we all get access to it. like for example, when we all get access to this car, not only can i go visit my friends, but the doctor can come. >> to like house. calls for my kids. >> or for my grandparents and that kind of thing. and that is what super agency is. and i think what we will see with ai. >> is it will. >> actually increase human agency. >> so because i fear you lose agency, i mean, i'm envisioning all the crazy pictures of myself or whatever, doing things that i didn't do or whatever, all the things that could go wrong. so talk about some of the things that really could go right and can right overcome wrong. so in the world of ai.

>> i think the answer. >> is. >> almost certainly yes. really? yes. because if you think about it like, here's what we have a line of sight to a medical assistant on every smartphone that is better than your average gp. that runs for like inference costs. the compute dollar cost per hour is under $5 an hour, 24 by seven. you're insured. you're not insured. you have, you know, kind of, you know, an ability to get to a hospital, not an ability to get to the hospital. >> right. >> the increase in human wellbeing from that is massive. and we know how to build that. today. it's only questions around legal liability and other kinds of things that are slowing that down. a tutor for every subject, every age from 2 to 80. anything that you want to learn also know how. >> to build that. >> that also sounds really good, but i'm more thinking like like nine over 11 when i went down the twin towers and i wanted to call back in and all of a sudden

the phone stopped working. and ever since then, i started realizing how dependent we were on technology, to the point where you were incapable of doing anything for yourself anymore. and that's what i fear with ai, is that we're going to lose the ability to do anything, because that's all going to be done for us. >> well, if we get to a science. fiction future, let me go to a. >> star trek. >> future where like, you know, like. for example, all the material needs are taken care of. we use human beings actually do know how to do that. we kind of had like if you look back at kind of like the middle ages and nobility and everything else, we can have parties and, and go do stuff. we can make lives of significance even in that science fiction future. but if you look at it today, actually, in. >> fact, i think. >> what ai can. >> help you. do is it can. >> help you make those decisions better. it's like an informational gps. so like you have a physical gps going, oh, how do i get from here to that restaurant, etc. this is like, okay, well, i'm encountering a medical issue. i'm encountering a i'm trying to figure out a

problem. it can help me solve those problems. >> okay. how does it solve the problem of jonathan lemire? >> hey. >> what did i do? >> i am curious. >> like there are a. >> lot of times unintended consequences. so i'm thinking about like the internet and local news is a really good. >> example, right? >> like social media has really taken. >> a. >> hatchet to local news. so i'm wondering if you could sort of what are the unintended consequences that you are the most worried about? >> well, so there are unintended consequences of actually knew what the unintended consequences are. we could steer against them. so but like we as human beings do transitions in massive new technologies poorly. right and correct. and so, for example, you know, the printing press can't have science, medicine, etc. without it. we had nearly a century of religious war because how we as human beings. so part of the reason like for example, i'm writing the book and trying to

get people to vision. what can be positive is how do we navigate that transition? because the transition will be difficult. there will be job transition. i mean, we saw jon stewart saying, an a.i. taking an ai's job, right? and it won't be i think it'll be humans replaced by humans using ai. how do we help those be the same humans, right. how do we help that? and these transitions, i think, are the things that most worry me. >> yeah. >> the new book, super agency. what could possibly go right with our ai future, is on sale now. coauthor and linkedin co-founder reid hoffman, thank you so much for coming on. congratulations on the book, and thank you for the mca version. yes. which i'm scared to look what i can do. it's. is that me? oh, boy. it's like coming up. it could be worse, right? much worse. thank you. coming up, it seems like mona lisa could be getting ready for a big italian vacation. we'll go over why many are pushing for relocating the iconic portrait from france to

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>> breaking news. a fast moving disaster in california. >> breaking news. >> israel and hamas will enter. a ceasefire in the nation's capital. >> philadelphia and. >> el paso. >> the palisades. >> from msnbc. >> world headquarters. >> my entire life has been spent preparing for the end times. >> my father. >> founder of the now. >> infamous oath. >> keepers. >> stewart rhodes. >> the third who was going to save america from the end of.

>> the world. >> told the big lie is that there was some concerted. >> plan near the capitol. >> it just wasn't. >> stewart was becoming increasingly unstable. >> people are. >> gravitating to him like a son. i bet. >> everything on him being. >> locked. >> away forever. >> i love paris in the springtime. well, it. >> doesn't get much better than that. shot of the eiffel tower right there in paris. nearly 5 p.m. there in france. but a tug of war is now brewing this very morning over the world's most iconic portrait. so ahead of the 2026 winter olympics, which are being held in milan. officials there believe that the mona lisa should be returned from france and sent back to italy. nbc news correspondent joe fryer has the latest. >> it's the biggest draw at the world's largest museum. >> it's right there. >> the mona lisa. >> a resident.

>> of the louvre for most of the past couple centuries. >> a home that's more crowded. >> than ever. >> what would da vinci. think of these. >> thousands of. people crowding around here to. >> snap their selfies? >> now, some. >> in italy want to change. >> her address, the times reports. >> the culture chief for the milan region, in an official note. >> says we. >> are ready to. >> host the mona lisa. >> telling the paper milan will. >> host the winter. >> olympics in a year and tourist numbers would be extremely high. >> there's a lot of lot of leonardo in milan, but do they have greater rights than florence? do they have greater rights than than paris? do they have greater rights than rome? and i think they they don't very obviously. >> it comes in the wake of. >> a leaked memo. >> published in a. french newspaper. in it. >> the louvre director reportedly cites a proliferation. >> of damage in museum. >> spaces. >> some of which are in very poor condition. massive crowds are another concern. >> there's tons of people crowding and pushing around just to get a picture of a snapshot of it. >> last year during. >> the paris games.

>> the director told our keir simmons the museum gets 9. >> million. >> visitors a year. >> so it has to. >> cap daily numbers at 30,000. >> you have to limit the number of people to keep the. >> condition of visit. >> you. >> know, pleasant. >> for everyone. >> italy would be happy to borrow mona lisa while the louvre sorts out restoration plans. renovations are something french president macron will likely discuss today. >> when he. >> visits the famed museum. >> it's the biggest cultural prize ever. >> the mona lisa was painted by da vinci, the famed italian renaissance artist, in the early 1500s. she is. hung on the walls of french royalty. napoleon and the louvre. >> except in 1911. >> when she was stolen by an italian employee who wanted to bring her back to italy. so how would she feel about returning today? >> well. >> as always, what she's thinking. is almost impossible to read. >> nbc's joe fryer with that report. well done there. still ahead here, it's one of the top restaurants in new york city with reservations that are

notoriously difficult to get. carbone has made its mark over the past ten years, and now there's a massive book to celebrate its success. chef mario carbone joins us next on morning joe. my first question to him can he get me a table? >> yeah. >> back in two minutes. >> i need one. >> he's been hanging around for days. >> wow. >> incredible. amazing. >> my go to is lumify eye. >> drops. >> lumify dramatically. >> reduces redness. >> in one minute. >> and look at. >> the difference. >> my eyes look. >> brighter and whiter. >> for. >> for. >> up t at bombas we make the most comfortable sock in the history of feet so comfortable you'll wish you had more vist bombas.com and get 20% off your first order some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking allstate first. okay, let's get going. can everybody see that? like you know to check your desktop first, before sharing your screen? ahh..uhhh. no, that, uhhh. so check allstate first

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opened establishments are fighting to win the notoriously fickle hearts of the city's foodies. it's an era when the newest hotspot reigns supreme. it's rare to remain on top for as long as karbonn, the iconic italian restaurant, has stayed a new york city staple and a coveted reservation if you can get it for more than a decade and a newly released i guess it's a coffee table book with gorgeous photography and stories of the restaurant's founding and

recipes, was created to mark carbone's ten year milestone. and joining us now, chef and co-founder of major food group, the parent company behind carbone, mario carbone. it's very good to have you. this is fun. yeah. so what is it, a coffee table? what? how do you describe this? >> i think it's a. >> coffee. >> table book. >> because. >> it's a little heavy. it's a hefty coffee. it doesn't have as many traditional recipes as you would have in a normal cookbook. i think there's 13 recipes with the idea that. >> sort. >> of the recipes take you from the beginning of the meal all the way to dessert. so it's one complete long meal at carbone. >> one how long is a meal supposed to be? >> a meal at carbone is usually around two and a half three hours. >> good lord. and why? why how long out getting a reservation do you have to make one? >> we only take them 30 days in advance. not before that. >> okay? >> and we have. >> so we'll never get one. >> is that what. >> you're saying? >> yeah. we can talk. >> about happening. >> we'll talk about it.

>> shut out. >> so far. >> it is happening. >> it is a stunning book. thank you. the photography is absolutely gorgeous. talk to us about the essence of carbone. what sort of experience? beyond the delicious food are you trying to pretend? yeah, i think when we first when we first built the restaurant, we were sort of. >> going. >> against the grain of what fine dining was, which was. >> this very kind. >> of. >> hush. >> library like environment. and for me, growing up in queens, going to these sort of restaurants for. special occasions, i wanted. >> to put. >> something back that emulated that. that was this sort of fun, emotional, fine dining, very much rooted in the italian-american cuisine, which is what i am. i'm born in new york. i'm a third generation italian american. so the origin of that is the sort of 1940s, 1950s. and that's where you get carbone. you get the size of the menu, you get the uniforms, you. >> get. >> the music. >> you get. >> all. >> of that. because that, for. >> me. >> is celebrating that first generation of italian americans. >> so now you're a major foodie. fair to say. >> well, i. >> like you, were talking about a restaurant the other day, like

for a long time. it's like. >> wow, she's. >> holding my attention for a long time. >> well. >> so the restaurant that you worked. at was. called wd50, and it was by. >> wylie dufresne, who was. >> a molecular gastronomist. >> it was. >> a sort. >> of very. >> new agey. >> incredible kind. >> of cooking. >> very different. >> but when. >> you. talk about. >> so you come from this family cooking. >> of. >> like real. >> italian american food, which is a little bit different than italian. right? it's a sort of transition. >> and then you. >> mix in having spent years there. doing molecular. >> gastronomy. speak to us about how that. >> influenced your trajectory. >> at the time, i was really very young, and i knew enough to know that i needed to really learn different disciplines. and at the time when wylie opened wd50, it was a groundbreaking restaurant, and i had to ask multiple favors to get an interview, to meet with him, to beg him for a job there, because it was the hottest thing in the country. and i knew that at the

time. it wouldn't necessarily be my path going forward. but i was so curious what he was doing there, and i wanted to spend time there, and it was one of the great experiences of my career working for him. so is there a signature dish or two in here that you hope people will take and cook at home? >> i actually. >> i really hope that they cook through all of it. there's only 13 recipes, and i think that i tried to choose ones that i thought were really doable, very approachable. and they're if you if you go through all of them, not that you need to do them all in one day, but if you go through all of them, you see the full breadth of the restaurant from kind of the raw bar all the way to dessert. so i'd love for people to try them all, and i can try to coach them along the way. >> maybe a 2.5 hour dinner. there you go. we're going to have one. molly's cooking okay. >> that's that's. >> that's dinner on sunday at my house. >> really? >> yeah. >> we are. we're sad, pathetic people. >> we have to get. >> up early. >> we eat out of a cup, you

know. >> five minutes. >> no, chef. co-founder of major food group, the parent company behind carbone, mario carbone. thank you very much. the new coffee table book carbone, published by assouline, is available now. it's beautiful and thank you so much for coming on the show. thank you for having me. nice to meet you. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a short break. we'll be back tomorrow break. we'll be back tomorrow morning, bright and a chewy order is on the way for radar, who hears everything. and that sound means chewy is en route. ear wipes. kibble. squeaky lamb. [mom]: it's almost chewy time! [parrot]: chewy! and that's echo — [parrot]: chewy! whose favorite seed is also on the way. at prices mom loves. because two pets means twice the savings. [parrot barks] for low prices and fast shipping. for life with pets, there's chewy.

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