some sort of other activity building. and again, as mentioned, the enemies list. gabbard also faces questions. republican senators have at least privately voiced doubts about whether she should continue to be the nominee. the hearing is a sign that the trump administration wants to go forward. and of course, there have been confirmations this week. two nominees initially withdrew, including matt gaetz, who you see on the upper left. while we have now seen the confirmations start to come in, we are tracking all of it as we go. now, my question to you tonight is what is your most important protest song of all time? one that means something to you? whether you think it was important, great. go to ari melber on any social media at ari melber. you can also also reach me at ari melber comm. what is your best protest song in american history? we are continuing that discussion as we reflect both on history and the future of the important power and right of protest in america. it is your right. all right, i'm going to hand it off right now.

the reidout with joy reid is up next. hi, joy. >> hi, ari. >> you know, i'm tempted to say, old pirates. yes, there are by soul i to the merchant ships. that's the best protest. >> song of. >> all time, minutes. >> after bob. >> marley redemption song. i'm not surprised that it's your pick. i love that it's your pick. >> it just. >> is the. >> best and. >> we can debate it later. thank you ari. >> appreciate you. >> my friend. thank you. and coming up, i mean thank you for joining us tonight. >> clearly, it has been a very busy, busy day. >> not. >> just for protest songs. we have a lot. >> to get. in in just one hour in the next. >> hour of the reidout, including. >> two. >> very. >> very big interviews, michigan governor gretchen whitmer and new york attorney general letitia james both join. me tonight on trump's reality tv immigration raids and his blatantly. illegal federal spending freeze, as he moves quickly to consolidate his authoritarian power. but we begin tonight with chief justice

john roberts, who just seven months ago granted donald trump sweeping powers of immunity and granted him immunity and impunity. roberts explained that it was necessary because a president must not be chilled from taking bold and unhesitating action required of an independent executive, mere laws be damned. president trump took roberts permission slip to heart, issuing an unprecedented pause of all, i repeat, all federal grants and loans, which was supposed to go into effect at 5 p.m. eastern today, less than 24 hours after every agency was informed. but because there is still a rule of law. at 4:59 p.m, a federal judge in washington, d.c. temporarily halted the funding freeze until next monday so she can review its legality. yesterday's news immediately plunged the country into chaos because the directive could affect trillions of dollars that congress has already approved for things like

head start, cancer research, special needs kids, local law enforcement, opioid treatment and a myriad of other initiatives. and not to step on the judge here, and i am clearly not a lawyer. but yeah, the funding freeze is unlawful on its face because, you know, congress congress is the one that has the power of the purse. and they already approved the money to be spent. i guess bold and unhesitating action means ignoring the constitution or ignoring the supreme court. and that other law banning tiktok or ignoring a 2022 law requiring the president to give a rationale and a 30 days notice to congress before firing the inspector generals that he already fired. maybe you can be bold and unhesitating when you hire the folks from the heritage foundation who wrote project 2025, you know, the ones who told us the federal government should stop funding pretty much everything except tax cuts for the super rich and corporations

like russell vought, the soon to be director of the office of management and budget omb, who wrote in the project 2025 manifesto, quote, the president should use every possible tool to propose and impose fiscal discipline on the federal government. anything short of that would constitute abject failure. while trump was pausing federal funding and making it harder for working class folks to get ahead, he was asking congress to pony up billions of dollars for his theatrically cruel immigration raids. nbc news is reporting that ice plans on hitting three big, most likely democratic cities every week. it's unclear if raids are planned for rural areas in republican states, with businesses known to hire unauthorized, unauthorized immigrants to. and just hours before his administration announced the funding freeze, trump was telling reporters that he wanted to make sure his billionaire buddies will be paying lower taxes permanently.

his treasury secretary, scott bessent, meanwhile, was telling the financial times that they also want to implement a 2.5% increase in universal tariffs, which will go up by the same amount each month, which you get to pay for with higher prices at the store. but, you know, at least elon, mark, jeff and most of trump's cabinet won't have to worry about paying for a thing. joining me now is michigan governor gretchen whitmer. her new book, the young adult edition of her new york times bestseller true grit, is out today. thank you so much for being here, governor. let's go through this because this is i'm holding here the first few pages of the lawsuit that was filed by multiple states, including yours, regarding this emergency temporary restraining order about funding for the federal government. i'm just going to read a little bit of it requires all federal agencies to conduct a review of all federal financial assistance, supporting activities for consistency with current presidential policy, including the slate of executive orders, directing immigration

activities, eradicating dei initiatives from federal programs, eliminating protections for members of the lgbtq community, and removing conservation focused regulations intended to protect the environment. in other words, it sounds like they're freezing all of the money that your state is entitled to because they want to root out help for gay people and the environment. and any person who's diverse. that seems pretty sick to me. but your thoughts? >> yeah. no joy. i think that these trump cuts are going to have a devastating impact on people's lives. there's no question about it. when we. think about food assistance, you know, food. >> prices are. >> through the roof, right? we already know eggs and avian flu what it means. but the talk. about tariffs. >> is going to. >> increase the cost of our blueberries. right. it's going. >> to increase the. >> cost of building a home or being able to afford a car or getting a job on the line in a. state like michigan, that's a big deal. but this is about. american manufacturing. this is about our ability to.

>> get. >> ahead. and this kind of chaos with these trump cuts are now making it even. >> harder. >> for law enforcement to monitor the, you know, sexual predator registration. so this is going to have a direct negative. impact on americans lives. >> all. >> across this country, whether you voted for president trump or. >> not. >> we're. >> all going. >> to pay. >> a. >> price for the chaos. >> that this is creating. >> let me play for you, carolyn leavitt, who is the new white house spokesperson. she was asked about the sort of confusing nature of this freeze, because there's lots of alarm out here. people who are thinking student loan grants, student grants will be gone. medicaid is a big one that people are worried about. head start. she's asked about that today, and here's what she said. >> so are you. guaranteeing here that no individual now on medicaid would see a cutoff because of the pause? >> i'll check back on that and get back to you. >> as the governor of michigan, have you got clarity on whether medicaid payments, head start, school lunch, whether that's cut

to or frozen to? >> no. and i think that's probably the right word, joy. the money was appropriated. it was supposed to be, you know, done. and now i think it's throwing everything into chaos. and when the administration has a hard time answering the questions about what the ramifications are, it tells you that it is. not something that they've even considered what the outcome is going to be. the talk around tariffs. similarly, i'm glad that they're moving a little. >> bit. slower on that front. >> but i mean. >> i urge caution. >> and hope that they move quickly to get these dollars out. they have been duly appropriated. and i think that there's a very real question whether or not these actions are lawful. >> for michigan. nearly $34 billion of your state budget is built on federal dollars, which equates to 42% of your fiscal year 2025 total. 2.6 million people currently have health care coverage through medicaid or the healthy michigan plan. in

2022, michigan received $258 million in head start funding. what would be the pragmatic impact? because it seems that this is an attempt by the project 2025 people running donald trump's government to find a way to get rid of that funding to make room for these massive tax cuts for the super rich and for these tariffs that people now without medicaid and food stamps would have to pay at the at retail. >> you know, the. rhetoric about making sure. that we're abiding by the law, making sure that we're supporting american manufacturing, making sure that americans can keep more money in their. pockets at the grocery store. that was all a part of the campaign. and yet these actions are going to impose so many costs on americans, whether it is at the grocery store or just paying your energy bill. there are consequences to every one of these actions. and when the administration can ask the answer the questions about what they mean, it tells you they're

not trying to understand. >> they're not trying. >> to see the humanity in others. and part of you know, i'm here to talk a little bit about the book, but the fact of the matter is we put a young adult edition out because we got to see the humanity of one another. we got to listen to one another, and we've got to continue to make our voices heard. this is a path for how can we move forward in extremely stressful and chaotic times. and i'm sad to say, this is exactly what's what's playing out. and we need this more than ever. >> well, i do want to talk about the book because, i mean, you said you said this i think a couple of months ago that you wanted to try to find common ground with donald trump, that you would attempt to do that where it was possible. i think i think a lot of democratic voters that that, that that sticks in their craw. they don't want to find common ground with somebody who seems to be an autocrat and whose own former aides and chief of staff called him a fascist to the core. right. and some of the things that he's doing, i think for a lot of people feel like john kelly and mark milley were right about him being a fascist to the core. so talk a little bit about that, because you

write for young people about how to find a way forward. but when someone is that extreme, i think a lot of people are asking democrats, how can you even want to find common ground with them? >> well. >> listen, that's my job. you know, i am. >> the governor. >> of a. >> very purple. >> state, a state that elected. >> me. >> twice by big margins and also elected donald trump twice within two years of both those elections and my duty. my oath is to serve the people of michigan. i'm always going to try to find common ground where i can, but i'm never going. >> to sacrifice. >> my values, and i'm always going to stand up on behalf of the people of michigan. and so when you see policies like, you know, these, these trump cuts that we've been talking about that hurts michiganders. so i am speaking out. i'm also going to try to give help the administration find a path forward. we cannot impose this kind of pain on the american people and assume that the average person is going to be able to get ahead and pay their bills and take care of their families. and that's part of why

trying to seek to understand it, making sure that you never give up the fight is so important. we got to remind people about that now, but you can both try to find common ground and stand up for your values and fight when you need to. and that's exactly what my job is. as governor of michigan. >> you wrote this book for young people. there are a lot of scared young people right now, i'm sure in michigan and places like detroit, you know, the these ice raids are targeting schools. i, a colleague of mine showed me the directive that was sent to their school in new york, where they're essentially trying to assuage the terror of young people who fear that ice is going to bust in and take them or go in. their mom won't be home, or their dad won't be home when they get home. how do you advise? and in this book, what do we learn about what what what advice you have for young people in this very, very chaotic era? >> well, it's scary. and, you know, kids are smart. they're not stupid. they can tell when someone is full of it or not. and that's why this book, you know, being blunt, being honest

about some of the tough things that i've had to confront and the strategies i use to navigate around them, the ability of us to secure reproductive rights for women in michigan after a ten year battle, after i told my story of sexual assault and a q&a at the end with my daughters to show, you know, we got to see the see the humanity in one another, there's a bunch of resources in the back of the book, too. so if you're dealing with bullying or sexual assault or mental health issues, we want to help kids get through these really stressful times as well. but it's on the adults to make sure that we are living our values and showing them what real stewardship of resources and leadership looks like. and that's that's going to be more important in the coming days, months and years than ever. >> last question to you. give me your sort of critique or grade for the national democrats, for the democrats in congress and their response, it seems a bit scattered. i think there's been some concern among democratic

voters that there's not really much of a strategy. do you see one? and if so, what is it? >> well. >> listen, it's been a little over a week and there is so much that is happening. and you see governors and attorneys general like mine here in michigan, dana nessel, challenging what we think are unconstitutional orders that have come out of the white house. you see congressional delegation, you know, democrats standing up. but this isn't about one person or another. we've got a deep bench. we've got a lot of people who've got to be a part of creating a different way and a new vision for the democratic party. and i'm confident that you see the great leaders we've got across the country, and there's going to be lots of us speaking and giving people hope and fighting for fundamental rights and freedoms that we americans should come, should be able to expect. >> they call her big gretch. they love her. in michigan, michigan governor gretchen whitmer wearing that trademark lipstick. thank you, and congratulations on the book. >> thanks, joy. >> cheers. and coming up next, i have an exclusive interview with

new york attorney general letitia james, who has filed legal action against trump's freeze on federal funding. stay freeze on federal funding. stay with us. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. >> so i. >> get. >> the same. >> fast nationwide coverage if i switch. >> yup. >> for unlimited talk and text with reliable coverage and your second month free call, consumer

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beta prostate. >> the big. lie is that there. >> was some concerted plan near the capitol and it just wasn't. >> stuart was. >> becoming increasingly unstable. >> people are. >> gravitating to him like a son. i bet everything on. >> him being. >> locked. >> away forever. >> democratic led states are taking the fight to the administration over donald trump's attempt to freeze trillions of dollars in federal grants and loans that congress passed to send to the states. a coalition of 23 state attorneys

general, led by new york's letitia james, have sued to block the freeze. new york attorney general letitia james joins me now. and, general james, thank you so much for being here. tell me about this lawsuit. new york and california are leading it. it's 23 states and cities total. what are you looking to have happen? >> so thank. >> you for having me, joy. >> not only is. >> it california, but it's rhode island, it's massachusetts, it's new jersey, it's rhode island. and it's the state of new. >> york which is. >> leading this matter. but we. are seeking, obviously, is a temporary. >> restraining order. >> and then a preliminary injunction against illegal act. it is ultra vires. it exceeds the authority of the president of the united states. it's in violation of the spending clause of the united states. congress has control of the purse. and so this president of the united states cannot disrespect a co-equal branch of government with the stroke of a pen. and it's important that individuals understand that a number of states, their portals were frozen today here in the state

of new york, our portal, our medicaid portal, was closed off. there was a state in arizona. attorney general mayes indicated that, in fact, just last night, she had seized over 500,000 pounds of methamphetamines. and that drug program, that interdiction program that could have been affected law enforcement grants, food for seniors, meals on wheels. head start, aid to farmers, aid to pregnant women, aid to children, the list goes on and on and on. it is unprecedented, unparalleled, but basically illegal, unconstitutional, reckless and dangerous. and, you know, it seems that that donald trump is testing federalism itself and attempting to seize for himself and for his administration powers, as you point out, that were in the constitution designated to congress and then sort of doing

the same thing in sort of launching what feels like almost an invasion of these states with ice agents on the streets of american cities. we know that new york city joined the list of cities where these performative raids are taking place, sometimes with celebrity podcasters joining along doctor phil there on hand. it's almost as if they're doing it like a reality show. what protections can the attorney general's office offer to the people of new york? in this case, it's chaos. >> confusion and it's conflict. >> but basically it's fear. and what it's having is a chilling effect on undocumented and immigrants. here in the great state of new york. we are monitoring the situation. it is my understanding that ice was in new york city and in parts of westchester and in the bronx today, but they were focusing on dangerous individuals, and obviously we support their efforts in that regard. but when it comes to individuals who cannot go to school, children who cannot go to school,

individuals who are victims and witnesses to crime, who are who are afraid to go into courthouses, individuals who are victims of domestic violence and cannot get orders of protection because they're afraid to go into court. individuals who can cannot go see their doctors. that is what is happening. i cannot tell you the number of individuals who've come up to me crying because they are concerned about our government, who are concerned about being deported for doing absolutely nothing. individuals who have been in this country and who have contributed to our economy, individuals who work each and every day, who know no other country but the united states, individuals that are fleeing dangerous situations, fleeing violence in their country, who only come here because they want the same thing that you and i want, and that is to make sure that our family is safe and to contribute to these united states. and it's unfortunate that i have to hold countless number of individuals in my arms crying, because we have a government right now that is reckless, reckless, and also, i

mean, as i've said, performative. i mean, i want to show you an image of kristi noem, the who was just confirmed. the former governor, who was confirmed as a department of homeland security, says she's cosplaying. it's almost a game where she seems to be cosplaying as i'm not sure what she thinks that she's portraying here. she might as well be at comic-con looking like this. and it is. it is a it is. it feels like the attempt, as you said, is to instill fear, not really to enforce the law. you can't say you're going after individuals who are just dangerous criminals if you are invading schools, because elementary and high school kids cannot be what you're talking about. and again, in newark, new jersey, as you know, they also detained an american citizen who was a veteran. it is performative theater, and it's nothing more than shock and awe. but at the same time, it's again stoking fear. and countless families across countless municipalities and across states and individuals need to understand that immigrants and undocumented individuals contribute so much to our

economy, so much to innovation and creativity to business. and this is a nation of immigrants that president kennedy once said. and it's important that we understand and respect them and recognize that they, too, have rights. and that's why, as the attorney general of the great state of new york, we've issued advisories. we've held meetings with clergy. we have held meetings with advocacy groups and with business leaders, again, who are concerned about the attacks on our democracy, attack on the rule of law, and attacks against citizens who want nothing more than to live in peace and to contribute to the economy of the united states of america. the irony, of course, for donald trump in particular, is that the state of new york is the state that made him a felon, because he was duly convicted by a jury of his peers in the hush money case. but there were two civil judgments that in cases that that your office brought, madame attorney general, that includes the fraud

case in which donald trump was found to have serially defrauded the state of new york, he still owes the state of new york some $500 million. and then, of course, there was the civil case that e jean carroll brought for defamation and for sexual abuse, in which he was also convicted by a jury of his peers, found liable for sexual abuse in which he owes jean carroll. he is now attempting to claim as somebody who is supposedly about law and order, that the law and order that was dispensed by new york juries do not apply to him, and stating that his immunity that the supreme court gave him extends to the jean carroll case, and presumably that he doesn't have to pay the state of new york. can the state of new york force him to live under the law? so again, in my case, we are waiting for a decision from the appellate division in the second circuit. and it's important to understand that all of the violations of law that he

engaged in, including trying to take advantage of our insurance laws, our tax laws, and not paying adequately to our tax base were done when he was not the president of the united states. and this is a civil matter. it is not criminal. and so the pardon law does not apply in this particular case. and so we are awaiting a decision. and upon that decision, we suspect that he will probably appeal that decision to the highest court in the state of new york, the court of appeals. but we are confident at the end of the day that he will be held accountable to the residents and to the taxpayers of the great state of new york, because only one rule should apply, and should it apply to all of us equally, regardless of whether or not you sit in the highest office of these united states. new york attorney general letitia james, thank you very much. and coming up, we need to take a long, hard look at how to think about truth over the next four years when we're dealing with a white house fueled by alternative facts. hi, i'm ron reagan, an unabashed atheist. fueled by alternative facts. that's up next.

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press secretary, gave alternative facts. >> to that. >> but the point remains. alternative facts. >> alternative facts are not facts. they're falsehoods. >> that was one of the very first scandals of the first trump administration, when kellyanne conway referred to press secretary sean spicer's blatant lie about trump's inauguration crowd size as

alternative facts. fast forward eight years and it appears that nothing has changed, as we are once again seeing the president and his staff invent their own reality and sell it not just to their fans on far right wing cable pod and on podcasts and on the maga internet, but also to the mainstream media. case in point last night, trump made a midnight social media post claiming that the united states military just entered the great state of california and under emergency powers, turned on the water flowing abundantly from the pacific northwest and beyond. just hours later, the california department of water resources refuted that claim, saying the military did not enter california. the federal government restarted federal water pumps after they were offline for maintenance for three days. state water supplies in southern california remain plentiful. similar situation with colombia after sunday's standoff over deportation flights. white house press secretary caroline leavitt said in a statement that colombia accepted all of president trump's terms, including using

military aircraft. but according to colombian president gustavo petro, those migrants traveled home on a colombian air force plane, not a us military plane. now, we've seen this movie before. trump makes a bogus statement. media outlets blast it out to viewers, and people just accept what he says as the truth. but what's different now is that trump has even greater control over these government agencies and media ecosystems, especially with his posse of billionaire oligarchs who own the largest social media platforms and have conveniently gotten rid of fact checking. so how do we, in the media and you at home, discern what the truth is when we're being inundated with so many lies? joining me now is michele norris, msnbc senior contributing editor. michele, thank you so much for being here. i guess that's just my question. i'll throw it out to you, because the thing in the media is what people tend to do is quote the government, quote, the police department. that sometimes goes wrong when it turns out that they're not telling the truth. quoting trump, it almost always seems like it's going to go wrong. >> well, we.

>> have to. >> change our footing. >> we have to. >> you know, we've. always been careful. >> about attribution. >> and fairness. >> and balance. and now you. >> have to. >> be careful. >> about the words. >> you use and use words like allegedly and reportedly and work a bit harder at fact checking and truth telling. and, you. >> know. >> a lot of people have just a limited time. and so. >> you. >> have to decide how much time you're going to spend explaining something and how much time you're going. >> to spend explaining what is true and what is not. but it's. >> worth doing that because, as you noted, he will make a statement here and then it will be refuted. and many more people will see that one statement, but they won't hear the refutation. >> yeah, i am a big fan of the word claim rather than said, you know, claim. i used to say my media, my journalism students claim as a more loaded meaning. and sometimes you need to say claim and not say it. let me play for you because the whole apparatus inside the white house shifts with administrations. and when it's a trump administration, there's a certain vibe to it. let me play caroline leavitt, and this is marjorie taylor greene's boyfriend, asking the press secretary a softball question. take a listen.

>> welcome. >> you look great. >> you're doing a great job. they talked about transparency. >> and some. >> of us. >> in this room. >> know how. >> just transparent. >> president trump has been the. >> last 5. >> or. >> 6 years. >> i think you'll do the same. >> my question is, do you think this latest incident. >> with the. >> president of colombia is indicative of. >> the. >> global powerful respect. >> they. >> have for president. >> trump moving. >> forward, not only to engage in. >> an economic. >> diplomacy with these. >> countries. >> but also world peace? >> absolutely. >> that guy's name is brian glenn. he works for real america's voice. and that is the new face of the white house briefing room. breitbart is back. other entities that have been, you know, their blogs and stuff that are back in there. so what is the value at this point of a white house briefing room, when that's some of the theater that's going on? >> you know, to be. >> honest. >> there's always been a certain amount of theater in the white. >> house briefing room. >> and to be. >> honest. >> there have always been.

>> people trying to curry favor. >> and, you know, handing out compliments. >> and. >> thank you for. >> calling on me and that kind of thing. but the thing that we have to do in the media is be careful about what we selectively report. >> because every. >> time you repeat something that might not be true, you're. giving life to it. you're giving. >> oxygen to it. then it becomes anaerobic. >> and it. >> just, you know, goes on with the life. >> of its own. >> most people. >> are not watching the presidential briefing. >> very true. >> you know. >> and most. people are not. so what we have. >> to do, those. >> of. >> us in the media who care. >> about truth. >> telling. >> who care about reporting. >> objectively, have to be careful about what we do have to be careful about where we give oxygen, where we give energy, and focus on the things that really matter to people. because right now there are people who are not sure if their head start program is going to be. >> operating later in the week. they're worried. >> about their. medicare payments. >> so we have. >> to be. >> careful to not be. >> distracted to do the truth telling, but not be distracted. by the theater. >> yeah. and at that same news conference, the press secretary could not explain whether or not

people were going to get their head start payments. so this is the challenge, right? is that the spokesperson for the white house did not seem to know for sure whether or not people were going to lose their head start. so we're at a point now where real fear is taking hold in these states. i've just interviewed leaders from two states, michigan and new york, where medicaid, the medicaid portal, isn't working. the head start portal isn't working. chris murphy is reporting the same thing is happening in connecticut. so this is a dire time, i think, for a lot of people and. >> governments run a lot like small businesses. >> and anybody. >> who's watching this who runs a small business will understand that your margins are very. >> thin, right. so if you're not, you're. >> not promised. that that stream of money. >> that you think is coming. >> in your direction. you have. >> to. >> make some really difficult choices because you're not going to. >> make payroll. you can't. >> actually run the operation. >> and so to. have that kind of confusion, it's. not that they're stopping down because they don't know what to do. they're stopping down because they might. >> not have the. >> resources to buy. >> the. >> things that they need to make. >> payroll, to. >> make. >> sure that. they can actually

open their doors. >> yeah. and the other thing is, is that there is some low hanging fruit that i think winds up, as you said, getting it sort of easy to, for people to pick up on. there was a story in the huffington post that pete hegseth sort of hinting that they might put back on the confederate names on these military bases, but only down in the story does it get to the point. well, well, he can't do that. he can suggest it, but actually, it's congress that does it. how much of our job really should be explaining? because that headline went everywhere, but not everybody understands. pete hegseth cannot make an announcement that we're going to rename things confederate. that's not the way it works. >> well, we. >> see a lot of that. we've been talking. >> about doge as if it is a. >> department before. it actually is a department. so we have to. >> be careful about the language that we use. you know, we're talking about donald trump ended d programs and said that they were wasteful. >> and. >> you know, are they wasteful. has he explained that? do we. so i do think we need to be careful, be very precise about the language that we use. >> and you know, you have a. nut graph sometimes that okay, we're going to take a step back and explain. something that. >> happened in a print. >> article or, you know. several

steps into. >> an interview. you said, let's. >> take a step back. >> you might need to. >> move that up. >> yeah. >> you know, and. >> explain to people, okay. they're talking about. eliminating this government. they're talking about. reinstating something. >> they're talking. >> about ending birthright citizenship by fiat. >> yeah. >> you know. the pen is. >> active, but it's. >> not magic, right? you know, it's not a scepter. you can't just wave that and make something happen. >> but there's another piece of it. you know, the tuskegee airmen story to me was very similar when we reported that they backed down off of eliminating it from the training at the air force. they did. but you know what i want to know? what did they take out? because the indication in the story is that they changed something to take out the dye. well, first of all, they've not really defined on the right what they mean by that dye. it seems they just mean anything about black people. well, this is all about black people. i want to know what did they take out? well. >> the focus on dye is interesting. interesting, a big elastic word. >> for. >> several reasons. it is a distraction that. >> perhaps takes. >> our energy and attention away from some of the other things that are not, i'm. >> not going.

>> to say more consequential, but are greatly consequential that are going on in government. it stokes. >> the. >> sort of gusts of grievance. exactly. you know, it's easy to do that. and it also distorts the people, distorts the, the cohort. >> the class that really. >> benefits from dei. >> because there is an assumption that when you talk about dei mean black, you're talking about, you know, a group of black people. >> when you actually. >> look at. >> dei programs, whether they're called deib dia, they're programs that benefit asians, latinos, the indigenous veterans, members. >> of. >> the lgbtq plus community. in some cases, people you know who live in underrepresented communities, who are rural and exurban, and. >> women and women, and that is what they are using as their pretext to essentially freeze all federal programs. michele norris, always a pleasure. thank you very much. and up next, it was bound to happen after trump granted them clemency. there are already insurrectionists who've been rearrested, investigated and even shot by the police. and even shot by the police. that's next. ♪ ♪

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success unlikely. since trump's pardon of roughly 1500 criminal january 6th defendants, there's been a predictable reminder of the fact that a tiger doesn't change its stripes. as surprise, surprise, people who chose to storm the nation's capital and beat the heck out of police officers also brought with them a really bad criminal history and future. and in the days since the pardons, we've seen a number of headlines highlighting how some january 6th parties have already found themselves rearrested or are at large, or, as in one case in indiana, killed by police during a traffic stop after allegedly resisting arrest. joining me now is nbc justice reporter ryan riley, author of sedition hunters. january 6th. broke the justice system. ryan, thank you for being here. this january 6th. defendant rioter who was killed by police. that just is one case, but we've seen others who are either wanted or rearrested, right? >> yeah. >> andrew taki is one of the ones that really.

>> comes to mind for me. he's i. >> actually knew the story of the woman. >> who caught. >> him originally. it actually involved the website bumble. >> and basically what. >> she went on. >> she was living in dc, went on bumble and just. >> you know, changed. >> her filter. >> political beliefs to conservative and just sort of went swiping. >> and. >> got this guy to bite. >> and he was someone who admitted. >> to her, bragged about. >> being. >> on the front lines. she got a bunch of guys. >> to do this, by. >> the way. but, you know, three of. >> them she ended up sending to the fbi because she they admitted to. >> her that they were on the. >> grounds of the u.s. capitol. >> but this guy was bragging. >> i was. >> right. up there at the. >> front lines. >> and so. >> you know, she did a little. bit of. >> googling, you know. >> some of. >> the skills that she. >> picked up, you know, doing online. >> dating before, found. >> his name, found his business, sent it all into the fbi. and lo and behold, you know, they ended up. >> calling her up. >> the fbi arrested this individual. >> he had. >> you know. >> guns at. >> his house. >> he wasn't. >> supposed to have them because. >> he was actually out on bail. at that time. >> because he. >> had been charged with soliciting a minor online.

>> and. >> you know, so that. wasn't his bumble profile. >> for example. but that's. >> you know, that's just one. of these individuals. and that was the one who. >> assaulted officers. >> with a metal whip that day. it's all on video. he also used pepper spray or bear spray. >> against officers as well. >> it's just all on video. >> and i think that's, you know, one. >> of the really confounding. >> things about. >> this is. >> like, there's no mystery and there's no reasonable doubt. >> this is one. >> of the. most captured crimes in american history. >> you know. >> you could get this from so many different angles. and a lot of these people bragged about it openly online. and yet. >> we're acting as though there's. >> some mystery to a lot. >> of this. >> there's a guy named daniel charles ball, who prosecutors say threw an explosive device at officers in a tunnel in the capitol. he was arrested after receiving a pardon, and he remains in custody in washington. there's another guy in indiana who's still in prison because there was child porn charges. so he never really, actually was released. when you just go through the list of these 1500. are you saying that there are more than a few who had criminal histories? >> oh, very much so. i mean, i think, you know, for most of the people who are. >> maybe only charged with the lowest misdemeanor trespassing. >> yeah. >> meaning they. >> basically just went in the capitol. >> i think it was. >> common for them. >> not to have extensive criminal histories.

>> maybe, you know, they got. >> caught up in the crowd. they were sort of they weren't one of the first. >> people to enter, but they sort of went along with the mob. and, you know, they would say they got caught up in the crowd. that's often a. >> refrain that we heard. so maybe that's. >> true that there. >> but for. >> the people who committed violent. >> acts. >> like it was, more. >> often than not you. would see that they had these long criminal histories, whether it be. >> you know, drugs, a lot of violence. >> a lot of domestic violence, a lot of assaults on on women. ryan sampson comes to mind, particularly. >> really vile attacks where. >> he, he was the individual who actually was the first one to breach the gates and knocked over carolyn edwards, the first. >> officer who was injured that. >> day. >> knocked her head. >> against a metal pole behind her. and he was carrying a trump rambo flag right as he got to the capitol. and that was not the first time he had assaulted a woman. there is. he had shoved his girlfriend's face into a slice of hot pizza at one point. >> i believe. >> put her head into like a ravine of some sort, like a lot of really terrible, terrible allegations of assaults on women throughout his, you know. his

criminal career. >> when you talk to these people now, if you're still talking to some of them, it seems to me that at least if you go by enrique tarrio and some of these others, that they feel a sense of impunity now, that they feel like they are now above the law themselves. >> yeah. i mean. >> i think that, you know, it's a. >> permission structure. >> in a lot of ways, right? because, you know, donald. >> trump. >> despite i think, you know, obviously after on january 6th, his. family now we know from the january 6th committee had pushed him to say this statement and probably further than he really wanted to go, because, you know, his original message to him as they were on the. >> ground that. >> day is, you know, we love you. you're very special. that was his core message. and then the subsequent message was, you know, everyone will be held accountable to law. >> and remember. you know, the. framing of this entire. >> capital investigation started under the trump administration in those final days of the first trump administration that was a trump appointee in the u.s. attorney's office who really set the standard for these cases. and that's where they sort of went with. and so, you know, this idea that now you have this stop. >> the steal. >> supporter who is now in charge of the of the u.s.

attorney's office in d.c. and overseeing all these cases and ordering these cases. >> dismissed. >> saying that, oh, this was all a mistake. well. that was the. >> original person. >> who put. >> this. >> on this. path was donald trump's administration. >> the coup was completed, clearly. ryan riley, thank you very much. coming up, it should surprise no one. but trump's deluge of executive orders were designed for shock value not to actually make sense. that's next. >> just because it's wet. >> outside. >> you don't need to wear boots. presenting skechers waterproof sneakers with rugged, 100% waterproof construction in a comfy, breathable, lightweight, easy to wear sneaker. ditch the boots and experience comfy, capable skechers waterproof sneakers. >> guys reach peak performance through row with access to prescription medications uniquely designed to suit your needs. we got you! get $30 off at ro covid de. >> doping for hair with the

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>> okay, i know it's hard to keep up with all of the project 2025 inspired executive orders being signed by donald trump, but there were two that were signed last night that i want to put a pin in. the first bars transgender people from military service. reinstating a policy from trump's first administration, which was rightfully thrown out during the biden administration, in part. trump claims it is necessary because, quote, for the sake of our nation and the patriotic americans who volunteered to serve it, military service must be preserved, must be reserved for those mentally and physically fit for duty. the armed forces must adhere to high mental and physical health standards to ensure our military can deploy, fight and win, including in austere conditions. let's be clear. being transgender does not impact one's mental fitness. counter to the obsession on the right, it is not considered a mental disorder. according to the american psychiatric association

and the world health organization. but it is the focus on being physically fit for duty to ensure our military can deploy, fight and win. that i personally find most interesting. because that brings me to the second of the trump's eo signed last night that reinstated soldiers who were discharged from the military for refusing to get the covid vaccine. a long stated campaign promise by trump, in part that eo stated the vaccine mandate was an unfair, overbroad and completely unnecessary burden on our service members. so what happened to the focus on being physically fit to serve? why are these people somehow exempt from ensuring they could deploy, fight, and win? i mean, it's kind of hard to win a war if you and your whole unit are stuck in bed because of covid, right? that is the exact reason that the military makes it mandatory for people who enlist to receive a number of vaccines so that they can be ready to fight. the

covid vaccine was no different, and now they are not only being welcomed back by trump with open arms, but with four years of back pay on top of it. so what happens when the next round of mentally and physically fit troops refuse to get vaccinated for the next outbreak? let's say it's ebola and they refuse to comply. how does that keep our military prepared if they're called to defend our country? speaking of vaccines, tomorrow we will see trump's pick to lead this country's health system. robert f kennedy jr, a leading vaccine skeptic and former heroin addict who once had a worm die in his brain. face his confirmation hearing. this is the same rfk jr. whose own cousin, caroline kennedy, is calling on senators to vote against him as trump's health secretary. >> i've known bobby my whole life. we grew up together. it's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets because bobby himself is a predator. his basement, his garage, his dorm room were always the center of the action where drugs were

available, and he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in a blender to feed to his hawks. it was often a perverse scene of despair and violence. >> baby chickens and mice in a blender for your new hhs secretary. yeah, well, sadly, don't expect senate republicans to show any concern for your health or that of your family and friends, as they will likely all vote to confirm him and put our health in his hands. perfect. and that is tonight's reidout. but before we go, a quick programing note. be sure to tune in to rachel maddow tonight for her exclusive interview with minnesota governor tim walz for his first interview since the election. that's tonight at 9 p.m. eastern. you do not want to miss it. all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on. >> all in. this decision is lawless,