been unable to connect with the emotion of the american people. and people just do not believe them. they don't believe them. they feel that the party has been captured by moneyed interests just as much as the republican party. whether or not that is true is, you know, that is depends where you sit. i would say that that is not true, but that is the perception amongst the average voter. and i think that that is the life of the average voter. it has it has been reflected to them that that is that the democrats are not really looking out for them either. >> yeah. and when you were at the dnc, as i've been on the campaign trail, this is the thing that we hear from voters all the time. the message is just for some reason, not connecting. sami sage, thank you, as always for joining us. >> thanks, ali. >> and that was way too early for wednesday morning. morning joe kicks off right now. >> so my message to federal employees who receive this is. >> yeah, the. >> president has tried to terrorize you for about a week and then gives. >> you. a little. >> sweetheart offer. if you

resign in the next week, we're. >> just going to. >> pay you for doing. nothing for. >> the. >> next seven months. don't be fooled. he's tricked hundreds of people with that offer. if you accept that offer and resign, he'll stiff you. just like he stiffed the contractors. >> he doesn't have. >> any authority to do this. do not be fooled. >> by this guy. >> democratic senator. >> tim kaine. >> warning federal. >> workers not to take an. >> offer from the trump administration to resign immediately. >> in. >> exchange for a buyout from the federal government. we're going to dig into the details of that proposal. >> also ahead. >> we'll go through what's next for the federal funding freeze after a judge blocked. >> it minutes. >> before it was set to take effect. meanwhile, the trump administration is revising another funding pause that was causing. >> a lot of. >> confusion within the state department. plus, defense secretary pete hegseth takes.

action against a decorated general who has been a frequent target of president trump. will explain what's happening with former chairman of. >> the joint chiefs. >> of staff mark milley. and before taking office, donald trump hinted at a. >> government conspiracy. >> connected to the dozens of drone. sightings over. >> several states. yesterday. his administration gave an. >> update. >> and it doesn't sound that much different than what the. >> biden administration said. >> good morning, and. >> welcome to. >> morning joe. >> it is wednesday, january 29th. ali made me. >> feel. >> like it was friday. >> i tricked you. >> it's a good. >> thing along with willie. well, she just kind of has that. >> friday look. >> the friday the jeans. >> yeah. >> the vibe. >> right? okay, so. >> we've got. >> the today. >> by the way. >> it's only wednesday. >> oh, good. >> we have. three more days. >> you tricked. >> me, ali. >> vitali. >> two more days. >> wednesday. thursday. friday. >> oh. that's true. >> we got. >> four hours.

>> in front of us. >> so true, so true. >> exactly. >> co-host at the fourth. >> hour, jonathan lemire, is here. he is a contributing writer at the atlantic. >> covering the white house and. >> national politics. >> the host of way too early. >> ali vitali. >> president of the national action. >> network and host of. msnbc's politics nation. >> reverend al. sharpton is here with. >> us and author and. >> nbc news. >> presidential historian michael. beschloss joins us this morning. >> we have a lot going on today. >> i mean, a lot going on every. >> day, right. >> really quickly, let's just get the headlines. new york times, actually picture. of la. >> in the aftermath. >> and of course, there's going to be so much cleaning up to do. the. >> wall street journal, again. a conservative. >> voice for conservatism in the. >> republican party. it's fascinating going to their opinion pages. >> willis. because over the last couple of days, they've been very clear about well, first of all, they called out the violent. >> the cop. >> beaters as they. >> said it and them getting pardoned.

>> obviously yesterday. >> rfk jr. we're going. >> to talk about that a little. >> bit more. >> they've had. >> concerns about others today. this is. >> what they write about. >> tulsi gabbard. >> very briefly. >> voters want disruption in washington. but it would be something else entirely for the senate to confirm. a director of national intelligence. >> who has a record. >> of defending those. >> who. subvert u.s. interests. >> when former rep. tulsi gabbard testifies thursday, will republicans pose questions. >> that serve the public. >> interest or simply. >> go along. >> to get along. with president trump? the question isn't mrs. gabbard's patriotism it's judgment. and what message would it send friends and foes to confirm? a director of national intelligence who doesn't really seem to believe in protecting. national intelligence. >> and we're going. >> to be talking again about bobby jr. >> that certainly seems to be in trouble. >> but tulsi. >> gabbard, another one. kash patel coming up. >> this week.

>> had some news coming. >> out that. >> i know has to concern. >> a lot. of a lot. >> of republicans. >> even republicans. >> that went along. >> with pete. hegseth when. >> you know. >> it's just. >> sacrosanct that when they're hostages and you're trying to get them home. nobody says anything. >> until they're in u.s. custody. >> and he's out leaking to the wall street journal. >> while they're not in u.s. >> custody. >> according to cbs news reports yesterday. and fbi. >> officials were just. absolutely furious. >> that he. >> they believe he may have risked the lives. >> of. >> those people by being. >> so reckless. so we're sure. >> to hear. about that, too, rfk. >> but here. >> tulsi gabbard, who. >> i guess. >> we keep hearing. >> is the. >> one that's in the most the nominee in the most trouble right now. >> if these. >> nominees were democrats, these republican senators rightly. >> would. >> be yelling and screaming about everything you just laid out that was disqualifying. >> to. >> have had such. >> a. >> cozy relationship with russia, disqualifying to have

met. >> with assad. >> in syria, disqualifying. to do all the things she's done. and the same goes for kash patel. but so far. >> the answer to the wall street. >> journal. >> editorial board's. question will. >> republicans just go along to get along. >> with donald trump? has been, yes. >> with. >> a few exceptions, lisa murkowski, susan collins. but by and large, enough republicans have said this just is not worth it. at the beginning of trump's second term for me to cross. >> him. >> right out of the gate. but if they're being honest and they really are concerned about national security, they will ask some tough questions and perhaps exercise their power to vote against somebody who is not. qualified to have this job. i think many people believe that three people up this week may be three who posed the greatest risk, the greatest danger on all fronts. whether you're talking about tulsi gabbard and most republicans agree she poses great risk and danger. rfk jr, who whose nomination obviously even before the chicken in the

blender. >> story came out. >> and also on the other. >> yeah, exactly. >> also in danger. and then kash patel, who has said he will arrest members. >> of the. >> press, has an enemies list again. >> we'll see if there are four. >> republicans who actually don't think it's a good idea to have an fbi director who, first of all. >> again. >> according to other. >> people in. >> fbi. >> risked the lives of hostages and the hostage release said he was going to arrest members of the media and. >> has an enemies list. he's going after. >> and we're finding out. with pete hegseth, we're going to get to this story, too, isn't it? isn't it amazing? i mean, i think a lot of lot of pete hegseth critics probably are thanking him this morning. >> for proving that he's. >> doing exactly what they said he was going to do, because here's a guy who said, oh. >> we're focusing too much on woke. >> we're focusing too much on politics. we need to. focus on the. >> warrior culture.

>> and what he's. >> what's he doing? he's focusing on politics. >> he's focusing. on political retribution instead of readiness, instead. >> of the. >> warrior culture. instead. he's focusing. >> on going after the most highly decorated general soldier, along with 1 or. >> 2. >> others of. >> of our time. >> so unsurprising. >> but that's also what you have to do to stay in trump's good graces. at this point, it's the same game that senators are playing, and that's why, despite serious concerns about hegseth, about rfk jr, about tulsi gabbard, about kash patel, the list could go on. but there's not a good faith debate going on in the senate because of that other permission structure that trump has created, which is crossed me at your own political peril. joni ernst would have had serious and legitimate questions to ask, given her background about pete hegseth, and ultimately was persuaded out of that, whether it was by hegseth himself or the political climate is up to us. but the hill and we've seen this before. yes, tulsi gabbard might be in

trouble today, but we saw that same thing with pete hegseth. i remember when that nomination was supposedly on death's door and they never pulled it. we went through the holidays and there it was. there's a reason we're seeing all three of these nominating contests or nominating hearings on the same day, and it's to almost dilute the controversial so that people aren't quite sure where to focus, which has been the entire strategy so far. >> and it i'd say. >> it goes beyond serious concerns. >> it's evidence. >> and patterns. that these. nominees have. >> in their lives. >> let's start. with robert f. >> kennedy jr. >> as our top story, president trump's nominee to be the next secretary of. health and human. >> services. >> he'll appear before. >> the senate. >> finance committee. >> for his. >> first confirmation. hearing today. now ahead of that. >> his cousin caroline kennedy is speaking out, warning. senators that. >> while rfk. >> jr is family. he is not. the right choice. for this job. >> in a video posted to social media, caroline kennedy.

>> accuses rfk jr. >> of being. >> a. >> quote. predator who should be rejected by the senate. >> now that bobby has been nominated by president trump to be secretary of health and human services, a position that would put him in charge of the health of the american people, i feel an obligation to speak out overseeing the fda, the nih, the cdc and centers for medicare and medicaid services, agencies that are charged with protecting the most vulnerable among us is an enormous responsibility, and one that bobby is unqualified to fill. he lacks any relevant government, financial management or medical experience. his views on vaccines are dangerous and willfully misinformed. these facts alone should be disqualifying. i've known bobby my whole life. we grew up together. it's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets

because bobby himself is a predator. he's always been charismatic, able to attract others through the strength of his personality, his willingness to take risks and break the rules. i watched his younger brothers and cousins follow him down the path of drug addiction his basement, his garage, his dorm room were always the center of the action where drugs were available, and he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in a blender to feed to his hawks. it was often a perverse scene of despair and violence. that was a long time ago, and people can change. through his own strength and the many second chances he was given by people who felt sorry for the boy who lost his father, bobby was able to pull himself out of illness and disease. i admire the discipline that took and the continuing commitment it requires. but siblings and cousins who bobby

encouraged down the path of substance abuse, suffered addiction, illness and death. while bobby has gone on to misrepresent, lie and cheat his way through life. bobby is addicted to attention and power. bobby preys on the desperation of parents of sick children, vaccinating his own kids while building a following, hypocritically discouraging other parents from vaccinating theirs. even before he fills this job, his constant denigration of our health care system and the conspiratorial half truths he's told about vaccines, including in connection with samoa's deadly 2019 outbreak of measles, have cost lives. >> i can't. >> even imagine. >> how painful that must have been for. >> i mean, she's. >> a very private person. >> and just from. as a point of view of. someone who's had a sibling who's nominated.

>> this is. >> such. >> a proud moment. >> for a family. >> when someone in your family is. >> asked to serve. >> and i can't even imagine. >> what it took. >> to say all those things and put them out in the public square. willy. >> and this comes months after his own siblings. caroline. >> of. >> course, is his cousin. his own siblings came out and spoke out against his presidential campaign and said he shouldn't be anywhere near the white house. as mika said, caroline kennedy doesn't do this. >> she doesn't. >> this was a this probably took a lot for her to get out in front of a camera and give such a detailed critique, not just of his. views on medicine and vaccines, but of his character. she's indicting the character of a guy she grew up with for her entire life, and saying he just shouldn't be anywhere near running our health. >> system. >> and she's not that type of person. i've met her on. several occasions and she's very private. she's not one you can enlist on a cause. whatever is hot at the hour, can you come?

she's not that type of person. she's very deliberate. so i would think that this was very painful for her and well thought out that she had to do this to call her cousin a predator who she grew up with, and to say, yes, people can change, but he hasn't. i remember and i talked about this a couple of weeks ago when we were doing the choose healthy life at during the covid 19, and we were having vaccinations for people at black churches, at the historic abyssinian baptist church where adam clayton powell pastored. we had a vaccine display of reverend calvin butts, who's past now, and i and others with deborah frazier house. bobby kennedy had people picket the black church against vaccines. we ■told people, if you want on, fine. if you don't know, they picketed this kind of venomous behavior while he was vaccinating his own children. >> that's insanity of it all. and during covid, when i would

have friends who were supporters of this new anti-vax lunacy, just total lunacy on the basics, i would remind them, but you've vaccinated your own children, right? six times before. >> they were in school. >> you were vaccinated, your parents vaccinated you, and now suddenly, you know you who was you were. because the funny thing is, conservatives, we used to make. >> fun of. >> the hippies. >> on the west coast that. >> were anti-vaxxers. because it was so crazy. you look mississippi, alabama, georgia, the states in the deep. >> south, arkansas. >> they had the highest vaccination rates and the truly disadvantaged were the greatest beneficiaries of that. and these diseases wiped out. >> now i i'm going to read. >> another op ed at some point. but this is a. >> wall street journal.

>> editorial page, jason riley, and i'll read more of it later. i mean, he's very conservative trump supporting guy, but he's talking about something that i've. >> been thinking about over the past. >> couple of days, and that is. >> that every. >> administration overreaches and every administration pays for overreaching. and you talk to people in the. trump administration, people around the trump administration, they. >> believe, like. >> everybody who walks through those. >> gates, that. >> this is. >> the end of. >> the end of history. >> the smartest people ever to walk through the gates. and everybody i'm mike and i will not say. >> the administration. >> we said this. >> too. >> but, you know, you think you're the smartest people ever. >> do you not. >> think the people that left with a. >> 22% approval rating at the end of their administration, when they. walk through the gates, also thought they were the. >> smartest people ever? yeah. >> you're not. we've seen this rodeo before, but this is this is jason riley. what? >> he talks about you. >> distinction matters. >> okay? >> we haven't seen this. >> rodeo before. no. >> have you. >> seen others? it's about power that comes and. >> goes.

>> for maga diehards, there's no such thing as a president going too far. it wasn't mr. trump's base, however, who put him over the top in the election. >> swing voters. >> who couldn't bring. >> themselves to cast a ballot. >> for kamala harris are the major reason mr. trump won. >> the popular vote and. >> the presidency. the distinction matters. trump loyalists don't care if the president's pardons. on january 6th. >> protesters who. >> assaulted police. >> officers after. >> he condemned george. >> floyd's protesters who. >> assaulted police officers. it doesn't concern them that robert f kennedy jr, the president's nominee. for secretary of health and human services, declared as recently as 2023. >> that, quote, there's no. >> vaccine that's safe and effective. >> okay. >> 2023. they may not care, but a hell of a lot of americans do. >> so let's move on. now, a federal. judge in. >> dc yesterday. >> temporarily prevented the trump administration from

carrying through with its plans to pours. >> trillions of dollars. >> in federal loans, grants and other financial assistance just minutes before it was set. >> to take effect. >> the judge ruled the courts need more time to consider the ramifications of trump's order, which is part of his administration's. push to unravel programs that don't align with his agenda. the stay only affects the disbursement of government funds that have already been authorized, not money that was being sought. a decision is expected to be issued on monday. the ruling was seen as a win for nonprofit and public health groups, who filed a lawsuit earlier in the day. however, the order does not touch on the legality of trump's freeze on grants and loans. meanwhile, the move sparked chaos as to whether to pause the pause would impact medicaid reimbursement, which provides health insurance to more than 72

million people. several states reported. ■portals were offline yesterday afternoon. the white house blamed an outage for locking out agencies later in the. >> day. >> medicaid programs reported they were finally able to resume accessing their payment system. at one point. there was also concern about the sudden suspension of snap benefits, social security and medicare. but the white house says those benefits are not impacted. >> well, i mean, there's so much. >> to talk about here. >> the chaos is kind of the point. well, one of. >> the. >> one of. >> the points. >> you know, absolutely. >> i think on on medicaid, especially jonathan lemire, i. >> don't know. >> what what caused that outage. maybe you can provide. >> us more insight. >> medicaid though, you. >> know, it must be said medicaid. drives rural health. >> care. >> medicaid drives even, you know, even for middle class americans. a lot of nursing

homes, a. >> lot of. >> other things that that that americans don't understand, medicaid helps on. it keeps a lot of hospitals open. >> all across. >> america, especially in rural america. >> so when it went. >> offline yesterday, obviously devastating. >> but, you know, jonathan, i. >> was thinking yesterday and. when the judge stepped in it. >> wasn't a. surprise at all. >> you know, we used to have this debate about line item vetoes, pass a budget to give the president the power to do line item vetoes. >> it didn't get through. >> it didn't pass. i see. no way i could be wrong here. >> but that. courts would allow. congress the article. >> one branch to do what madison said is their their one of their most important powers, and that is to fund. government programs and then. >> allow the article. >> two branch. >> the. president to, in effect,

do line item. vetoes if they don't like this. so we're not going. >> to allow that funding. >> we don't like that. so just. >> as a matter. >> of law, as a matter of the constitution, i don't. >> i don't. >> see any court. >> any serious court holding this up. >> yeah. that had. >> been the legal. >> speculation is that the president was an overreach of the presidential. >> powers here, that he does have. >> the ability. >> to pause. >> funding streams, but not to. >> end them. >> and certainly. >> this judge. >> yesterday, though. >> did not rule on the legality of the matter, put this freeze in effect until monday. but i. can't stress. >> enough, as we. >> sort of sift through this. >> this has been the. >> story here in washington the last. >> couple of days. >> i mean. >> yes, the medicare funding. >> the white house has said that was a coincidental glitch that had nothing to do with these pauses. some democrats. >> not so sure. >> senator chris murphy, for. >> instance, suggested there was more to it. we've heard from. >> several states that they went down the also some republicans, some some red state governors raising alarms, saying. >> look. >> my constituents need this. and that's part of this here. so

many of the programs that were targeted directly, intentionally targeted here, freezing their funds impact trump voters. as well as. other americans. and it's a long list here. it's snap benefits with subsidized school meal programs, usaid programs, homeless veterans programs, mental health programs, you know, victims programs, the amount of social services that depend on this federal funding, federal funding. it's a really complicated process and time consuming process to get that money approved in the first place. these sort of organizations have really been left reeling here. it's the first moment. i'll also close with this. where the democrats do to make his point earlier, have have sort of not been able to find steady footing to combat some of the chaos. and some of that is a deliberate. >> strategy. >> as i reported yesterday. >> as well. >> but this is though this is a moment where they found their voice, at least for now, saying, look, this is too far. and they were joined by some republicans while doing so now. >> and you are so right. people that are running around going,

rev, what's the. >> what's the. >> democrat strategy? what's the democrat strategy? why aren't they doing anything. what's the difference? well, you talk to top democratic leaders on the hill and they're. >> like. >> we're going to see we're going to wait. nobody's going to be able to say that we came out early. >> we're not. >> going to. and we did what we did in 2017. we're not the resistance. we're the loyal opposition. we're going to wait. and they are waiting. and every day they believe they're getting something. another powerful political tool to use. against republicans. and yesterday, i mean, when. >> the medicaid. >> portal shuts down. >> when pepfar. >> is frozen and now unfrozen, all these things that are happening, these democrats that are telling everybody, hold, wait, hold on. >> so bunker hill thing, wait. >> till you see the whites of

their eyes. >> you know. >> it's very interesting how this is happening. >> no, it is very interesting. and i think for those seasoned democrats, that's been the battle before. they knew just give it time. these people were hurting themselves. i told hakeem jeffries, who i know well, he grew up in national action network. i said that when i was younger. you talk sports all the time. i was a big boxing fan. i knew muhammad ali. >> oh yeah. >> and i asked ali. i said, how did you beat george foreman? he was much younger than you. stronger than you? yeah. you went to africa. how did you beat this guy? he said, well, well, i'll tell you. he says, i couldn't fight like i used to, i couldn't dance, i laid on the ropes and let him punch himself out. we call it the rope a dope, right? he says. and then when i saw the opening, i knew i had to get him now, and i hit him when i knew he was tired. i think the democrats have rope a dope donald trump. >> by the. >> way, i would tell you, it's very early in this. political

battle. i will say i saw a clip the other day. i've never seen it before of. >> ali before. >> he's about to go on stage in zaire against foreman, and he's turning all his. >> people, and. >> they're sitting there looking glum, and he's. >> like. >> right. >> what are you doing? what are you. >> he's basically he says, this is. >> not going to beat me. >> you all look like we're going to a funeral. it's like, smile. come on. >> and then none of them thought he was going to win that fight. >> no. >> they thought he was going to get crushed. >> that's right, 74. >> yeah. so michael beschloss. i just. >> it's very, very early. it's very, very early. >> early in the. >> morning. >> early in the morning. >> early in. >> the administration, president. trump's administration. >> and early. >> in the administration. we don't know. >> where this is going to go. >> we don't know. >> how far it's going to go. we just don't. but we do know this about power in. >> washington, d.c. it is it is fleeting. i i'm old enough and i've been around long enough. to

see one administration after another go in, and they go in thinking that it's the end of history, that they're smarter than everybody that. >> ever walked through. >> those gates before them. and they have figured out the secret, and i see them. leave quite differently. i'm not saying that's happening here. we don't know. i am just saying, though, that for democrats who are thinking this is the end of history and. this is it, and for trump supporters. >> as as wall. street journal, this wall. street journal op ed says. we think they. >> can do whatever they want to do. but, you know, because 35%. >> of the maga base. >> is excited about. it may, in. >> fact. >> as as as mr. riley says, may in fact be badly misreading. >> not only the political. >> situation now. but just politics in general. >> of course. no. >> that's absolutely right. and

i agree with all of you that. >> of course, this is. >> not. >> the end of history. >> and no one. >> can predict, you know, every time you have a president who is asserting. >> strong presidential power, you. >> know, all. >> the way back to andrew jackson and presidents in this century, like roosevelt and reagan and lbj, you know, the story unfolds. you can never predict. i keep on remembering, you know, that lbj, you know, as you all know, who knew congress so well at the beginning of 1965. >> the beginning. >> of his. big legislative. >> year, the great. >> society, he's talking to. >> hubert humphrey. >> and humphrey was saying. >> isn't it great? >> we've got this enormous landslide. we've got huge control of congress. we've got a very sympathetic supreme court. and at the same time, johnson, who was a lot wiser and realized that, you know, you can never predict in advance. he said, well, that's all great. but i'm asking, for instance, a lot of members of congress who want to run for reelection to the house,

for example. >> next year. >> to make some sacrifices that they might not want to make. and probably after i asked them for all of these strong, great society programs and also to escalate the vietnam war, they're going to get tired and start striking back. so they did in the fall of 1965, and lbj suffered a big reversal in the midterms that, you know, going by what you've been saying, joe could not have been foreseen. >> you know, that what we heard yesterday, the explanation from the white house about these cuts, the freezes of the federal grants and the. federal loans, was this was the president's mandate. he was swept in to do these things. well, that's not how this works. there's a congress, as you just explained very well, that controls the purse strings. but to your point, they believe because he won seven swing states, he won. >> by a point and. >> a half with a plurality of the vote, not a majority of the vote, that he can do whatever he wants. and so you get statements like the one from the acting

director of omb yesterday explaining these freezes of trillions of dollars that affect everyone from hospitals to head start programs, saying we need to stop, quote, marxist equity, transgenderism, and then start talking about the green new deal, to which parents who don't have head start today for their pre-k children, and not sure where to leave them so that they can go to their jobs, say, what the hell are you talking about? >> exactly? >> what are. >> you. >> talking about? >> and democrats sitting back making sure it's very clear to the american people, no need to distill this for you. no need to influence thinking. this is on the trump administration. there you go. >> well. >> this was the will of the people. >> well. >> again. i just i'm. >> sorry, alex, i'm going to finish reading. this because i think it's so important because i keep hearing how it's the end of history. >> and no one, no. >> one just said that here. >> no, i didn't say. you just. >> said this. okay? >> i didn't say you just said

that. i heard it over. >> the. past week where people are the. triumphalism is just i just like, oh my god, they. did. they just fall off the. >> turnip truck. so jason riley continues, they're. not talking about the maga base. they're not. >> bothered about bobby saying there's. >> no vaccine that's safe and effective in 2023. they're not bothered that he yanked security protection for former key advisers involved in planning the lethal drone strike on iran's leading terrorist, soleimani. not because it's no longer. >> needed, but. >> because he simply doesn't like them anymore. mr. trump can't be confident that all of his supporters will ignore such rank hypocrisy, foolishness and petty behavior. joe biden badly. misread voter sentiment after winning the 2020 election, and. >> he left. >> office with an approval rating in the mid 30s. if mr. trump has learned nothing from his predecessor's mistake. it could be a. long four years.

>> could be all right. presidential historian michael beschloss, thank you very much. >> for coming. >> this morning. and still ahead on morning joe, the latest on the trump administration's immigration crackdown and how enforcement operations could play out in the days and weeks ahead. plus, president trump is doubling down on his push to have jordan and egypt take in palestinian refugees from gaza. nbc's keir simmons is standing by from jerusalem, which joins us with more on that controversial idea. we're back controversial idea. we're back in 90s. businesses start small, but a lot of them take off. as your business grows, shipstation grows with you. so you can sync and manage all your orders... no matter how big you get. ♪♪ shipstation's custom automations maximize your team's time. plus, you get more carrier options, at the lowest possible rates.

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amount. >> you owe. >> national debt. >> relief reduced. >> my debt by. >> over $27,000. >> with national debt. >> relief, you have. >> a. >> powerful team that knows. how to talk to your creditors. >> national debt relief. they got me out of debt. call or visit. national debt relief.com. >> to get started. >> as immigration enforcement roundups continue across the country, nbc news has learned the trump administration is planning to carry out what's being described as major immigration operations and at least three american cities every week. that's according to three sources familiar with the planning. these so-called major roundups already have begun, beginning in chicago on sunday, followed by new york city yesterday. sources say aurora, colorado, will be tomorrow. newly sworn in homeland security secretary kristi noem was on the ground in new york city yesterday to observe immigration enforcement operations there and posting on social media about it. additionally, sources say ice is 25. field offices were told last week. >> was she wearing a flak jacket? >> yeah, she was wearing the gear that the ice and atf agents

wear on the raids. she did. >> she go on the raids with them? is that why. >> she's wearing the jacket? >> well, she was. >> live streaming them anyway. >> she was live streaming the raids. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> on social media. very good. smart move. then sources say isis 25 field offices were told last week to enhance their routine operations by meeting a quota of between 1200 and 1500 arrests every day. that news was first reported earlier this week by the washington post. meanwhile, nbc news also has learned the trump administration officials are actively considering pulling funding from the tsa to make up for a budget shortfall facing ice. joining us now with more on that report. nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. julia. good morning. what more can you tell us on this? >> well. >> look. >> ice is. >> facing a $230,000,230 million shortfall because they. >> are obviously. >> burning more than they can right now. that shortfall was even under the biden administration, and they actually did an estimate about

how much it costs to deport one migrant from arrest to the time. >> they're on the plane. it's about $10,500. >> so you can do the math. >> trump has promised to deport millions of millions a year. basically. >> they need. >> more money. they're trying to ramp. >> up. >> detention space so. >> they have. >> someplace to hold them. >> but in the end, they're going to. >> have to really. >> ask congress for more money. >> but the low hanging fruit right now is to reprogram. >> so they're looking. >> at pulling from tsa. that might get some backlash if people. >> are looking at longer. >> travel lines. of course, you also have. national security threats to worry about. and then they're. >> also looking at pulling. >> from cisa. that cybersecurity and infrastructure agency that trump has criticized because he thinks that they put their finger too hard. >> on. >> the wait when it came to judging what was misinformation. >> around the 2020 election. he's also looking at pulling from the coast guard. that's often a place where money gets dragged. >> from during. >> tough budget times at dhs. so some. >> of this is just to show. how big this operation. >> is, but how. >> little funding they actually have to pull it off. and especially as you.

>> look at these plans. >> to come. >> we understand they want. >> to do. >> three all hands on deck cities every week where they pull in lots of law enforcement agencies from across d.o.j. like the marshals and atf. but then when they. don't have the manpower. >> they're going to. >> be doing things in smaller cities. so you will still. >> hear of raids in. >> places like los angeles. >> and the d.c. area. >> but what happens is these are the places they really want to make that show. like what you saw from kristi noem in new york city yesterday. >> so we should just remind. >> viewers, of course. >> that the. tsa created. >> after the september 11th. terror attacks and. >> the idea. >> of defund or defunding that, i mean, what could that tell us more about the security implications here for an agency that, yes, we all sometimes groan when we have to stand in a long line. but at its core mission, at least in terms of these airports, has been extremely successful. >> right? >> dhs itself was created. >> after nine over 11, and they boosted tsa as a result of that to try to prevent terror attacks. it's its number one mission. of course, it's really grown in to take on what a lot of people would criticize as being too much of an immigration

mission. but tsa, yes, they're responsible when there's intelligence coming from overseas that we shouldn't be bringing liquids or a laptop or all these things that we can't bring on the planes, that's up to them. and those lines people are groaning about could get a lot longer if they start to cut some of those agents from that line. jonathan. >> all right. >> nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley, thank you so much. >> all right. the trump administration has reversed course on its order to pause nearly all foreign aid. and it's now exempting core life saving programs that involve medicine, medical services, food and shelter, the wall street journal reports, citing a state department memo, a state department directive last week called for the broad suspension of foreign assistance, while a three month review of the aid programs was carried out. that move caused confusion and concern among humanitarian organizations, who worry that the distribution of vital assistance everything from food to vaccines, would be disrupted. the journal notes state

department officials have yet to clarify whether the pause applies to the agency's financing of weapons purchases for taiwan and ukraine. president trump is doubling down on his proposal to relocate palestinians from gaza to jordan and egypt. over the weekend, trump suggested palestinians leave the gaza strip in order to, quote, clean out the enclave. he elaborated on his plan monday night, telling reporters he has spoken about it with the president of egypt. >> we help. >> them a lot and i'm sure he can help us spread. >> the monies. it's a very rough part of the world and to be honest, it's a rough. as they say, it's a rough neighborhood. but i think they can do it. and i think they will do it. >> now. egypt and jordan have rejected the idea, and a group of 22 nations known as the arab league said trump's proposal

would only prolong the conflict. >> let's bring right now from jerusalem, outside prime minister benjamin netanyahu's. office is nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons. keir, what can you tell us? >> well. >> there was no sign of that. >> language from president. >> trump about cleaning out. gaza in the readouts. >> after conversations between his. >> secretary of. >> state. >> marco rubio. and king abdullah. >> of jordan, or the. >> foreign minister. >> of egypt. what those readouts. >> released the readout after the conversation. >> with the egyptian. >> foreign minister. >> did say. >> is that. >> as far. >> as. >> the us is. >> concerned, the secretary. >> of state. >> told egypt that hamas can play as far as america is concerned, no part in any kind. >> of. future for gaza. >> and at the. >> same time, and it's quite a split screen. you're seeing hamas officials in. gaza as thousands return to the north, to. >> their devastated homes. >> you're seeing hamas. soldiers and. officials on the streets.

you're seeing. >> them in. >> clean uniforms. >> doing taking. >> selfies, holding babies. so i. guess that's. hamas's response. >> to that. >> the question. might be. what is president trump. >> trying to do here? >> is he kind of setting out. a maximalist position in. >> order to try to negotiate, or is he genuinely thinking that he could push along a policy that would be incredibly, possibly existentially destabilizing for jordan and egypt? and in terms of those those negotiations, his envoy, steve witkoff, is here now in israel. he has said that he wants to go to gaza. we are expecting him today to meet with prime minister netanyahu. as you mentioned, this is prime minister netanyahu's office behind me here. we did see an idf helicopter fly in just, i guess, about 30 minutes ago, whether that was carrying steve

witkoff, we cannot say. but certainly it's clear that the situation here in israel and gaza is perhaps the main foreign policy priority for the trump administration. prime minister netanyahu has been invited next week to see president trump in washington. he'll be the first foreign leader to visit president trump since the inauguration, so that that is a sign, i think. but this is stage one, and the cease fire is fragile. and the trump administration, for example, has withdrawn support for unwra, the un organization that has been supplying food and medical supplies to palestinians in gaza, in which the israelis accused of being infiltrated by hamas. so that just that simple question raises the question, how do you continue this deal if you can't send important life supporting materials supplies into gaza? and of course, these the israeli government would

would disagree with that and say it's still it's still possible. it's stage one, right? there are three americans who are still hostages. keith siegel is one of them. maybe he will be released this week, but then we have stage two and stage three. and then what future for gaza it is to say it is on a knife edge is under underestimating. i know it's you want to find better words. >> yes. okay. here from officials i've spoken to in the region. >> over the last. >> 24 hours. the proposal to, quote. clear out gaza was met even by those who. quietly supported donald trump's return to the white house with something far more than skepticism. almost laughing, contempt said that is not going to happen. it's not going to happen in jordan. the saudis are not going to support it. the egyptians will not support it. i mean, there there seems to be the deepest i can't underline

the word deep enough, the deepest of skepticism that that this would ever happen and that these countries. >> would ever. >> absorb the palestinians living in gaza. what have you heard? >> yeah. >> keep in mind also that many of these governments, their autocracies, after all, were in power during president trump. 1.0, so they've kind of seen this before. i've spoken to diplomats in the gulf. and remember, in the gulf there was enthusiasm about the arrival of president trump. i've spoken to diplomats in the gulf who kind of are shrugging and saying, well, that's just not going to happen. and so that's just president trump for you. and i think it's notable that steve witkoff, his envoy, was in saudi arabia, i'm told, by a senior gulf diplomat before he came here to israel, i wouldn't be surprised to see him in doha before. i suspect he will return to washington for that. benjamin netanyahu visit next week. so

the negotiations continue on all sides. all sides are still talking to each other. while president trump uses this frankly inflammatory language, language that, you know, ostensibly, you would think is just going to make things harder. does it focus minds? does does it kind of set the table for someone like steve witkoff to say, okay, but let's here's what we propose. that is more of a compromise. i mean, in the end, if you're going to have a deal, if you're going to have a permanent ceasefire, there has to be compromise. and really, that is one of the reasons why it's so fragile, because, you know, how on earth do you get compromise after 15 months, almost 50,000 are dead, killed in gaza. >> all right. nbc's keir simmons. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> so much for your reporting. greatly appreciate it. when donald trump says things like that. and keir just talked about. that possibly being an

opening position or whatever, it's always important for those around donald trump. those are important. what they say is often the first thing he says, the first shocking thing he says, whether it's about the palestinian people or tariffs or the freezing of aid, is always the opening offer and the negotiation. >> all right. coming up, tom brady says he will fulfill his contract with fox sports as a commentator. but does that pose a major conflict of interest for the future hall of famer pablo torre and mike barnicle are here to discuss that. and yet another addition to the already stacked la dodgers. morning joe will be right back. right back. >> and we [monologue] i got somebody for that! ♪♪ i got somebody for that. ♪♪ i got somebody for that! you guys got somebody for peyronie's disease?

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try the crossover bra today at. >> honey love.com. >> boy, that's a beautiful live picture. that's got to be chopper for our good friends. w-n-b-c. >> thank you. >> chopper four. >> they do it every. >> morning, 365. >> days a year. look at that shot. live picture of new york city. did you see the numbers for the afc championship game? unbelievable. unbelievable. you know, just 1 million behind ali vitale's debut. >> i know. >> early on. >> it's. >> way too early. >> yeah, yeah. >> which same number when the beatles. >> john. >> paul, george and. >> ringo played ed. >> sullivan, 64. >> and the mash finale is in there. >> somewhere. >> the rankings never. >> really got. >> how it shook out, right? >> exactly. >> so sunday's game between the chiefs and bills, now the most

watched afc championship game in nfl history, the cbs broadcast averaged more than 57 million viewers. 57 million broke the previous record set last year between the chiefs and the ravens. the game also had substantially more viewers than the nfc title game, which aired in the afternoon on fox. not bad, though, that one. 47.5 million viewers. how about the nfl. >> and these. >> days of fragmented viewership? absurd. the nfl, this is beyond anything that we've ever seen. i do i do have to ask how much longer. it's kind of like the yankees red sox rivalry pre 2004. yeah, we thought it was a rivalry, but the yankees didn't because the yankees always won. at what point. >> do people like. >> me stop thinking. >> that wiley coyote is. >> going to catch the road runner, and. josh allen is going to win. how long? >> it's like he's in jim kelly

territory. great quarterbacks for the bills that just can't do it. it's heartbreaking. i love. >> him so close. >> what they have to do. >> what. they have to. >> do is get the best record in the afc. so that games in buffalo. exactly. that's that's the key to the whole thing. let's bring in pablo torre. >> hello. >> he really doesn't need an introduction anymore. but he's the host of pablo finds out on meadowlark media. also an. msnbc contributor. mike barnicle with us as well. >> hi, mike. >> mike. >> mike. how are you? >> pablo 57 million. >> yeah. >> i appreciate you guys having me here, because you could have put a. >> football on the. >> table and drawn 35 million. >> yes, exactly. >> just on that basis alone. >> but would they be wearing a shocking blue. >> sweater like i know? >> no. >> i don't. >> think so. sure. >> this is good. what is this? is this cobalt? >> i believe this. >> is a. >> cobalt blue. cobalt. >> giant. >> giant. >> blue. >> that's a little. >> loud. >> so i don't know. >> i like a giant blue. okay, pablo. >> i remember a couple of. >> years ago when people were

saying. in 2000. 2001. yeah. i'm never going to watch the nfl again. no, i never joe. and i'm like, yeah, dude. okay. i'll say. and then and then. like i call like six months later and they're, they're moaning about the packers. >> i thought you weren't watching the nfl anymore. >> i went to so many panels in and around brooklyn. >> new york city. >> i remember. i don't want to i don't want to put malcolm. >> gladwell on blast. >> out of nowhere. he's very smart guy. yeah. but at one point, i listened to. >> him predict this is going. >> to be over in about 15 years. >> yeah, 15 years ago. >> so smart people were saying, look at the concussion problem. look at the controversies. look at the way that roger goodell needs to be a supreme. >> court justice. >> punishing people. right. >> night court style, you might even say. >> and instead. >> instead, you have the most important piece of real estate in. >> literally american culture. >> broadly speaking, it's the nfl. and they are ascendant somehow. >> despite being. >> already incumbent. >> let me ask you. >> i mean, we all grew up watching the nfl. when did we get to this. >> tipping point where it became. so culturally dominant that 91 out of the top 100 tv

shows in a. >> year. >> or nfl games. >> i think it is concurrent with the fragmentation that you referenced because there is no monoculture anymore. again, if you're playing along with the drinking game of listening to me talk about football, i say the word monoculture as they always say it. because there is nothing communal left. right. because there are no ecstatic collective experiences anymore. because the pandemic taught us. i was talking about barnacle over there when you took fans out. >> of the. >> building and you realized we actually need lots of people to be around to fully enjoy sports. the nfl came along and said, here's a reminder we fill coliseums. and also we're the only thing that you will watch with the person who vehemently disagrees with you on literally every other cultural issue. and so they are event izing. he's another word. >> of the day. >> in a in a world of fragmentation, they are making things feel like you got to watch it to be included, which is just a rare american. >> sensation that. >> is not.

>> very well put. >> yeah. >> well, i agree with pablo. the things that bring us together have been elevated to go to a taylor swift concert. >> for example. she's on the list. >> feels good to be in the stadium. so how does the nfl sincerely feel about the super bowl? because we're seeing ticket prices are down. there's chiefs exhaustion. people are like, oh here we go again. the eagles and the chiefs. they kind of wanted a new story. the bills. are they going to do it for the first time. all that. but the nfl likes mahomes. it likes travis. it likes taylor. of course it's a really good eagles team. so how are we feeling about the game. >> yeah. look for me this is the least interesting matchup of the ones available because we've seen it before. but when you see those numbers i mean when almost 60 million people watch the chiefs and the bills, the nfl has to be thinking to themselves, yeah, we'll take it. we'll take the part of that of that matchup that is going to take taylor swift again into yet another luxury box for us to gaze up at, on top of the fact that travis kelce look, if you talk about the most famous football players in america, travis kelce i think is probably tied with patrick mahomes one a,

one b in some fashion. so if you're the nfl, that plus a bunch of people trying to climb greased lampposts in philly. yeah. there is just enough psychosis. >> mania. no, this is. >> going to be great. >> they're going to bring it. >> they're going to bring. >> it, by the way. >> for idiots at home that are saying not that there are any idiots that watch this show because they're not very smart. above average intelligence is amazing. >> but anyway, for those. >> saying that. travis kelce is only big. because of. >> taylor swift, i bought jack scarborough. a travis. >> kelce jersey. >> for christmas. five years ago. >> a guy, one of the great tight ends of all time. >> for sure. >> there's no doubt about it. of all time. yeah. >> two quick things. >> i really want to talk about the dodgers. >> but i think we have to talk. >> about brady. first i'm just curious how. >> do you rate tom brady this year. he says he's going. >> to he's going to stick it out. >> how did tom brady do. got much better as he went. i mean listen that's a you go from the field to the booth. he knows the

game clearly as well as anybody. but the broadcasting side of it is something completely different. i thought he got better, pablo. and i think now he's going to call the super bowl. there's all this talk about whether a guy who owns a portion of a team like he does with the las vegas raiders should be calling games. raiders aren't playing in this game, so you can put that to the side. >> not even close. >> but what? no. but what? they got pete carroll. now though, things are about to change. what's the what's the consensus about brady the broadcaster. >> he now appreciates how hard it is to speak in public about even the thing that you know better than anybody else who's ever played the game. like there is a giant difference between describing live with with millions of people watching versus doing live with millions of people watching. and look, i don't want to take this to michael jordan running the wizards, but we have in sports lots of experiments we've run where it's like, hey, here's the greatest of all time. they must be able to transfer this skill set to any part of the industry. and tom brady has gotten better over the season, but it's still remarkable. the guy was processing as a quarterback

faster and better and more precisely than anybody else has ever done it. and yet, when it comes to translating that verbally, he's just not nearly as good as lesser players. >> i think. >> the problem is, and i've noticed. >> it throughout. >> the season, at times. >> as a. >> broadcaster, he gets in his head. he should just talk. he should. he's got to learn how to tune out the critics and he's got to just talk, because when he's just talking and he's not in his head, he's really good. >> yeah, he is really good. >> but would. >> you be surprised? would you be surprised if the super bowl. >> he does. >> the super. bowl and. >> that's it. >> so this has been a rumor to the point where tom brady almost in the way that he would as a player, declared wait a minute. how dare you doubt me? i'm going to stick it through for the rest of this contract. right. but the subplot here, which willie mentioned, he's the minority owner of the las vegas raiders, and that does not indicate a merely ceremonial position according to everybody who's been paying attention. reporters are now saying this. the dude is the guy making the decisions.

>> no, no. >> they didn't. one of the. >> greatest quarterbacks, the guy that i would say was the greatest quarterback in. >> nfl history. >> before brady. >> didn't he. >> walk off. >> at halftime. joe montana. >> in a super bowl. >> he was broadcasting. >> he was terrible. yeah. >> and just and just at halftime he said no mas. >> and walked off. right? >> right. yeah brady is doing something that i think is unprecedented. he is actively running de facto running an nfl team. and also coaches. yes. hiring the hiring pete carroll, the guy that mark davis, the owner of the team, is consulting on these decisions. he's in the zoom calls interviewing people. and he's also going to call the super bowl like, again, i get it, he's tom brady. give him all the real estate. but it's an interesting experiment that we have not seen of power and publicity. >> let me. >> ask you another question. >> you referred. >> to. >> this earlier in terms of the ratings for sunday's game. highest ever. >> enormous numbers of people. >> watching the game. >> do you think that part of. >> the draw. is the fact that. >> our politics, our government, the world. around americans is

so shatteringly. >> crazy and divisive. that americans. >> still are looking for communal. >> experiences. >> and here. >> we are. >> i think there's no question about that. there's no question it makes us feel together. as we talked about. it's also i, i feel this when i get to come in and you guys are talking about very serious things. it's like a palate cleanser, right? it's just, hey, we're not just we're not just we're not just our problems. we're also a nice cobalt sorbet sometimes. >> exactly. >> and i love a. >> cobalt sorbet. >> many such cases. yes, yes. >> you've got the nfl. >> you've got taylor swift concerts. >> and you've got way too. >> early with ali vitale. that's right. >> i think america agrees on. exactly. >> so this is just open to. >> the entire table. and i'm serious. how many world series in a row are the. dodgers going to win before major league baseball understands that this is destroying. the

competitiveness of baseball, added another great reliever yesterday. just i mean, they're they're an all star team almost at every position. everyone talks about the evil empire of the yankees. i get that i take that the big budget. but this is pablo. this is something else. >> terrible scene. >> part of it is the deferred money. yeah. in ohtani's contract. so they're not actually paying him today so they can pay all these other people. >> now they've turned the nation of japan into their farm system, basically. and they have some great prospects coming out of japan. the scariest thing in baseball. now, again, for those not familiar baseball, there is no salary cap. so spending is essential. but when you have a team that can spend as well as a front office that is trained on fiscal discipline, like the guys running the dodgers used to run the rays, the tampa bay rays. and so they know let's be smart and judicious while also having the pocketbooks. if you don't have both, it's incredibly difficult to compete. and so, joe, to your point, i don't know why you would pick against them in the foreseeable future. >> well, yeah. and by the way.

>> mike. >> if you're. >> a fan. >> you know, if you're in. >> pittsburgh, if you're in kansas city, if you're in minnesota, i mean, you know, before the season even starts. >> you're never. >> going to compete with the dodgers. >> no, i'm. >> not going to. and so, so why. doesn't major league baseball have a salary cap. >> and again i understand. >> the union. >> is strong, but are they going to let the union destroy. baseball saying. >> the. >> major league. >> baseball players. union is strong is a serious understatement. >> they control. >> the game. they run. >> the game. >> there's no doubt. >> about it what. >> this does. >> i don't think it. >> ruins baseball. >> i think it. >> encourages there are other. >> owners with a lot of money. >> the red sox being. >> one. >> the orioles. >> now with they now have money. other teams have money. the yankees have an. enormous amount of money. the mets have an enormous amount of money, and he's spending the money. it's going to force owners to break out of the pack. and unfortunately. >> well.

>> the. >> system of fines and taxes in baseball, when you go over a. >> certain amount of money. on your on. >> your yearly budget is so. >> complex. >> i don't know anyone. >> who can explain. >> it, but. >> a lot. >> of owners live. >> in fear. >> of it. well. >> they've got to fix the deferred. >> the deferred farce? >> what compensation? >> the deferred compensation. >> if you're saying ohtani for $700 million. for ten years, that can't be deferred like it goes on your books for. >> ten years, how the contract is signed. >> goes on your book for. ten years. >> what we're seeing is a sophisticated financial instrument in that contract being introduced that i think is in the interest of truly nobody except for the dodgers. so the question of, you know what? if you're a team that values the present tense at the expense of some future cost, well, there's a real market inefficiency for you to seize as long as you're good to pay the bill later. and it's a crazy thing to have the

guy on the richest contract in the history of sports, right? i don't know what gladiators in ancient rome made inflation adjusted. right. but i believe that ohtani would be comfortably ahead. >> yeah. >> probably so. >> and with that, we say goodbye to. >> our our own sort. >> of. >> cobalt. >> cobalt sorbet. >> yes. yeah that's true. >> that's something cobalt. you really know how to. >> yeah a. >> palate cleanser. >> thank you. that's all i have. that's a little bit. >> i think. >> you're more than that, pablo. thank you. all right. thank you. let's get to our top story this hour. defense secretary pete hegseth has revoked the security clearance and former personal security detail for retired four star army general and former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, mark milley. hegseth also directed the new acting inspector general to see if enough evidence exists to strip milley of a star based on his actions to allegedly, quote,

undermine the chain of command. during trump's first term before leaving office. former president biden granted milley a pardon, citing the power to guard against potential revenge by the next trump administration. milley is the latest to have security protections taken away following doctor anthony fauci, former national security adviser john bolton and former secretary of state mike pompeo. each of them has received death threats over the course of their service to the country. >> well, and like jonathan lemire, like. john bolton, like pompeo. like brian hook milley. >> also. >> at risk of being a target of iranian hit squads. yeah he is. there are. >> legitimate threats to general mark milley. he has told friends about them, concerned about overseas threats, also concerned about threats coming from trump

supporters because donald trump has vilified him for so long. and it's now worth reviewing retired general milley's distinguished service to this country, according to the associated press. milley has extensive combat experience. he was deployed as part of operation iraqi freedom, which began with the 2003 invasion of iraq and operation enduring freedom in afghanistan, which, of course was a response to the september 11th. terrorist attacks. milley's other deployments include assignments in egypt, panama, haiti, bosnia and herzegovina. he has extensive service in iraq and afghanistan. during his more than. 40 year military career, milley has also been involved with operations that have been seen as united states successes. for example, he was part of operation just cause, which restored the democratically elected government of panama, and operation uphold democracy, which brought back democratic rule in haiti. he is one of the most decorated soldiers of his

generation. according to the website of the association of the united states army. army milley's awards and decorations include the defense distinguished service medal, army distinguished service medal with two bronze oak leaf clusters, defense superior service medal with two bronze oak leaf clusters. legion of merit with two bronze oak leaf clusters. bronze star medal with three bronze oak leaf clusters. meritorious service medal with a silver oak leaf cluster. army commendation medal with four bronze oak leaf clusters. army achievement medal with one bronze oak leaf cluster. national defense service medal with one bronze service star. armed forces expeditionary medal with two bronze service stars afghanistan campaign medal with two bronze service stars iraq campaign medal with two bronze service stars. global war on terrorism service medal and the korea defense service medal.

jamaica we took we wanted to take a minute here a couple of minutes and read through all of that just to really underscore the service that general milley has paid for this nation. and now, because he has run, run afoul of donald trump, losing a security detail that would help keep him safe going forward. >> now, one. >> of the one of the many. lies that were spread about him. through the years has been that he didn't see combat experience, which is. of course, preposterous. he's seen combat experience. across the globe and again, one of the most highly decorated soldiers of our generation, mike. >> barnicle. >> it will be interesting to see what is said by those who served alongside him with with other generals that have known him, like james mattis, other other people that served with him in, in in the cabinet. >> i'm sure mark esper will speak out. because this.

>> again. >> this this. attack on general. >> on general milley. >> of course. >> comes from secretary of defense now. >> who claimed he was going. >> to get. >> politics out of the. >> military and was going to. focus on readiness. >> and creating. >> a warrior culture. >> and so. >> to say. this was. >> a depressing move, but also. entirely predictable is what a. >> lot of. people in the military, retired and active, are saying right. >> now. >> joe. >> they can take away. general milley security detail and they can threaten him with. >> an inspector general's report and assessment of his behavior as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. but they cannot ever take away. general the general's honor. he is. >> an. >> honorable man. he served honorably and in his highest.

moment of honor. outside of his commitment. >> to. >> the united states. >> on the field of battle. >> in afghanistan and iraq. his highest honor. >> ought to be attributed to him. >> for the resignation letter that he wrote to donald j. trump, when trump was in office from 2016 to 2020. basically, general milley. apologizing for. succumbing momentarily. >> to donald trump's. lust for ego. >> and politics. >> and now to see general milley being attacked by. and i hesitate to even use the phrase the secretary of defense, pete hegseth, someone who has no idea of what the. >> word honor means. >> and he's proven it in the past. >> but to come. >> under attack from pete hegseth and the trump administration is beyond outrageous. it's obscene. >> so it's worth reminding people what his offense was. why is donald trump mad at general milley? there are a couple of

things that annoy donald trump. number one, he quickly general milley quickly apologized after lafayette was square was cleared in june of 2020, so donald trump could have the photo op in front of the church where he held the bible, apologized, said i shouldn't have been there. i didn't know what we were doing when we left the white house. and then after the attack on the capitol on january 6th of 2021, he was calling around. allies like the chairman of the joint chiefs should do. following orders. following orders, allies and adversaries, china included, and saying, we are fine. we are. safe there. there's no nuclear threat. we have the codes. this is what you do, following orders through the chain of command. and that annoyed donald trump that he didn't rally to his side as his supporters were attacking the capitol, for which they were later convicted and now released from prison by donald trump. >> you know how. >> many times that happens? yeah. >> how many times. >> that has happened in. >> when there are difficult. domestic problems? how many. >> times that happened during watergate? how many times that henry kissinger constantly calling around saying,

everything's fine. we're going to be fine. doctor brzezinski at times calling around allies and adversaries, saying, we're fine. no need to, i mean. for donald trump supporters. >> to call. >> that treasonous. >> shows how little. >> they have read history. >> because this is what. >> secretary of. defense's national. security advisor. >> jake. >> sullivan did it 20 times. i bet doctor brzezinski did it 20 times. i bet brant scowcroft did it 20 times. this is what these people do. they talk to say, hey, everything's fine. things are a little, little crazy right now over here, but no worries. and the new white house press secretary yesterday, in her first briefing, was flippant when asked, will the president take responsibility if something happens now to general milley? he doesn't have security anymore. he needs it because of

the threats, because of everything donald trump and others have said about him. i don't have her exact quote, so i don't want to misquote her, but they didn't express a great deal of concern. >> also. >> what he did. >> for donald trump, what john bolton did for donald trump, what brian hook did for donald trump, what mike pompeo did for donald trump when soleimani was killed. yeah. >> okay. yesterday, a federal judge temporarily prevented the trump administration from carrying out its plan to pours trillions of dollars in federal loans, grants and other financial assistance. the judge ruled the courts need more time to consider the ramifications of trump's order, which is part of a larger push to unravel programs that potentially don't align with the president's agenda. the stay only affects the disbursement of government funds that have already been authorized, not money that was being sought. it also does not touch on the legality of the

freeze. a hearing on the matter has been set for monday. still, the ruling was seen as a win for nonprofit and public health groups. let's bring in nbc news senior business analyst and host of the 11th hour, stephanie ruhle. stephanie, you've been following this. also, the ramifications of these freezes are really hard. >> well, sort of. really nine of the trump administration put us deeply in the f around and find out. and that's where we are. listen, it is not unusual. let's put it in a business sense, right? for a new ceo to take over a company and say, hold on, let's take a look at where we're spending. let's evaluate. let me meet with every department head. but this is not a business, right, i get it. that was the argument glenn youngkin, the governor of virginia, made defending the president. and i get it. maybe that's how glenn rolled when he ran. carlisle. this is the united states government. and what's really important about the billions and billions of dollars that president trump is looking to freeze. this money was already approved and allocated by mike johnson's congress. you know,

weeks and weeks ago. right. so what's interesting is donald trump, it's not a surprise that he said, we're going to change things. and lots of people in this country feel like the government spends too much money. we've got to clean things up. absolutely. but he's had plenty of time and planning to actually do this in some sort of orderly fashion. and instead we're getting pure chaos. >> but the way it's done. >> though. >> and you were so right, i think most people would like business leaders to go in. if there are problems, it's freeze everything for a second. everybody just stop, slow down and let's look at our priorities. but in this case, you have a constitution that gives the power of the purse to congress, to the article one branch. and we don't have a line item veto in washington, d.c. what this is in effect, is a line item veto saying that a president can completely stop the funding that has been

authorized and appropriated by the article one branch. it's just it i would be very surprised if any court would find that constitutional. >> there's not even a hot line in the administration to tell any of these organizations that are dependent on the money. you're okay. the incoming white house press secretary said, let me calm you. if you're receiving direct support from the government, you're okay. well, what if your child is in the head start program? what if you are get meals on wheels, right? that that money doesn't directly go to the senior citizen getting dinner. it goes to the organization. so think about all of this unnecessary confusion if you want to clean up some of these budgets. if they're not going well, go for it. but the way they're enacting this isn't just illegal, it's just pure chaos that the american people simply don't need. >> right. and rev, we talked about medicaid before. a lot of republicans think that medicaid is for people who live in inner cities. medicaid is for people who live all over america and

people who i think are most adversely impacted when medicaid is frozen, when the portal is shut down, which is reopened now, are people in rural america, rural hospitals exist in large part because of medicaid, not because of medicare, but because of medicaid. and when medicaid funding is hurt, then some of the some of the deepest red states are the ones who are are hurt disproportionately. >> absolutely. i think that it is clearly underestimated by those in the present west wing, that they are hurting their own base. i mean, many of those in maga land are impacted by these freezes. if they're reinstated, hopefully they're not on constitutional grounds, because when you talk about medicare and when you talk about services, food for children, breakfast programs, lunch programs in

school, all of this frozen. yeah. first of all, it's a recklessness that you show you don't care about regular people while you're protecting billionaires at the same time. all of this in eight days. i mean, we're sitting here like he's been president for two years. he just took office eight days ago and has come like a wrecking ball. he reminds me of people when we on in the civil rights movement that said, let's march. what are we marching about and where are we going? let's just march. and that's what he's doing. let's just disrupt. but you're disrupting your own voters, mr. trump. let's just disrupt a. >> lot of these insane mentioned during the campaign, okay? >> but those voters, do they even know what's happening? because remember, there are news deserts around the country and the billionaires you're talking about that control so much information out there. this is a moment where democrats need a rapid fire response, and they need to be in those rural towns and rural counties and speaking to fire chiefs and police chiefs

and being town halls and saying, this is what's happening. and it's happening on donald trump's watch. because if you actually go to those parts of the country and listen to the news, those people aren't even getting the correct information. and when they get it, the president who is making these choices won't be blamed. >> okay. so joining us now is skye perryman. she is president and ceo of the legal organization democracy forward, which is representing the plaintiffs in the lawsuit. so the ruling is temporary. it's good to have you on skye. what's next? >> well, next we'll go. to court on monday and there will be a more fulsome hearing. we'll submit briefs, have the opportunity to provide more information about the millions of communities and the millions of americans across the country that are and would be irreparably impacted if this goes into effect. so, skye, tell us a little bit about those stories here. you know, the that on we're just minutes away from that freeze going into effect yesterday before the judge

stepped in. talk to us about some of the organizations and people who would have felt this. well, people i mean, you heard just now about meals. >> on wheels. >> community organizations across america that are delivering services to people, whether that's child care or elder care or, you know, a number of services that small businesses and communities rely on. i want to talk about our clients, the american public health association, main street alliance, which is a small business association. and, by the way, the rule in small businesses that you keep your customers and who you're serving happy first. and that would be helpful if that is what if that's what this administration would come in and do? you don't stop services when you come in and take over an enterprise, whether that's a government or whether that is the business. the national council of nonprofits and sage. and these people. had to. >> mobilize in. >> the middle of. >> the. >> night after this came out of the white house in order to go in and get the court. >> to. >> issue some type of relief so that it could consider the legality. so this is really high

stakes. this is not something that is to be taken lightly. people are out there. >> seeking to do. >> everything they can, and we will do that for them in court to try to ensure that the government continues. >> to. >> work for people. and we should reiterate, of course, that these are people across the country who voted. some voted for kamala harris, but plenty voted for donald trump. who would be impacted by this? absolutely. and in fact, it will impact rural communities. it will impact communities like the one i grew up in in waco, texas, in red states, in a devastating way. i mean, these are all of us are americans. we all rely on these services. this isn't something just for one city or one town. it's not just about the d.c. beltway. it is across the country. and that's what you see. that's why you see these small businesses mobilizing. you see public health leaders who run community health centers mobilizing, and, of course, nonprofit organizations across the country who deliver services. they deliver those services to people that might agree with you. they deliver those services to people who may not agree with you. and that is what america is. and this is an

administration that is really showing a callous disregard, we believe, for the law, but also for the well-being of the american people. >> all right. president and ceo of democracy ford skye perryman, thank you so much, mike. >> thanks for having me. >> i have a question for you. >> joe. >> that you are the only person at this table who, in your misspent youth, served a few terms in congress. yeah. so when i was in grammar school many, many years ago. >> we were taught. >> the elements of the american government, and there were three aspects to it. there was the executive, there was. the legislative and the judiciary. >> i learned this on schoolhouse rock, by the way. >> but go ahead. >> so apparently this is unknown to many people in washington dc now, right? but is it not a fact that in the legislative aspect of that three part government, the house of representatives, is the funder, right, the appropriations bills? right? so how does the executive overrule an act of congress in terms of spending? well, yeah, i mean. >> again, i think the court's

going to be looking at this. and if they decide on the margins to hold some things back and maybe pace out the spending over the year, that's fine. maybe save a few dollars here and there, that's fine. but there are a lot of people that are talking about this right now as a way to rein in federal spending. this is not a way to rein in federal spending. there have been those of us through the years, and when i was in congress, we always talked about a line item veto. let's have a line item veto. we don't have a line item veto. a lot of governors have a line item veto, but congress and we would always remind the senate when the house of lords would talk down to us, say all spending starts and ends in the house of representatives. we've got the checkbook. >> yeah. >> and so i am curious. and steph brought this up earlier. i am curious what republicans in the house of representatives are thinking going, wait a second. so we're having our primary power that james madison wrote

in the federalist papers was a primary power of the house of representatives. the power of funding programs. we're having that taken away from us in the first couple of weeks of this new administration. i think, again, so much of this is for show. i'm not saying this is for show, and i'm not saying that people aren't getting hurt by this, but you look at this and there was a story yesterday, i suspect courts won't allow this to move forward. you look at what happened with aid. marco rubio pulled back on again. i think a lot of this is just to show action and show control, like you said, like a ceo coming in saying we're going to check everything top to bottom before we elect to move forward. >> you could ask those those republicans in congress, they're all together this week. do you know where they are? down at the doral resort in florida, owned and operated by the trump organization. this is the is the first right last time we knew that that government agencies were going to trump hotels. now

the gop is officially writing a check directly to the trump organization. right. doral, which is a traditionally underperforming resort. that's where they're spending their money. and normally those gop retreats cost about a million bucks a clip. >> well, it'll be interesting to see what what what what they say about this basically line item veto that's been created. >> i mean, look, i don't think anything surprises them. i'm not sure why these republicans just keep acquiescing, but that's their choice. still ahead on morning joe, a live report from capitol hill as robert f kennedy jr is set to face his first senate confirmation hearing to become hhs secretary. but first, a look at the secret story of the world's greatest disruptor. and it's probably not who you're thinking of. that's next on morning joe. >> where were you on? i really

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>> this is. >> not just. >> for business. >> as rally said, this will help. >> people's life. >> this will help solving. >> many, many issues. difficult things that. >> otherwise we could. >> not have. >> solved with. >> the power of ai. >> i think asia. >> is coming very, very soon. and then after that, that's not the goal. after that, artificial

superintelligence will come to solve the issues that mankind would never. >> ever have. >> thought that we could solve. well, this. >> is. >> the beginning of our golden age. >> all right. that was softbank group's founder and ceo, masayoshi son, at the white house last week, announcing a private joint venture called the stargate project, its goal to invest up to $500 billion towards infrastructure in the u.s. to advance artificial intelligence. son appeared with larry ellison and sam altman, two tech leaders, perhaps with higher public profiles than masayoshi son, but seemingly not more influence with the second trump administration, as son has been tapped to lead the stargate project. let's bring in former editor of the financial times, lionel barber. he's the author

of the new book entitled gambling man the secret story of the world's greatest disrupter. masayoshi son. he'd know a thing or two about what's going on here. i think. >> so lionel knows everything. >> everything. >> he knows everything. he knows everybody, and he tells a great story. we, you know the line. we're going to need a bigger boat. yeah, we're going to need more than four hours for lionel. >> that's what alex. >> wants to hear. >> i can't swim. >> i exactly so, lionel. for most americans, they don't know mas they don't know who mas is. and yet, people in business circles, you're not. you're next to staff. and she finds out who this is about. she goes, oh my god. explain it to viewers who masa is. he was the richest man in the world in february 2000, richer than warren buffett, bill gates, he's a media. >> tech investor. >> with a very high risk appetite. and if you think of this. >> technological wave that's hit

us over the last 40. >> years, he's. he's been like forrest gump. he's been either. close to or at the heart. >> of. >> the action, either trying to. >> buy a company, big company like alibaba, buy a. >> stake in it. make money. >> all over the world, or buy a piece of it. and he's gone. >> he's gone bankrupt. >> or he's almost gone bankrupt. well. >> let's talk about it. it's he's come back. it's an opening scene. your opening scene is right out of a movie. you have all the financiers in japan coming to this, this rave to see him speak. he talks about how the future is, is, is open. japan is going to be the new silicon valley. he's the world's richest man. and three weeks later, what happens? he loses up to. >> 97% of his. >> paper wealth. that can bust. >> absolutely. the height of the dotcom bubble. i mean.

>> he is a bit of a p.t. barnum kind. >> of character. >> he tells a great story. >> he makes. >> big promises. >> talks big numbers, but he is at the. >> same time. >> somebody who's an amazing comeback. several times. and what. >> you're seeing now around. >> artificial intelligence is maybe his fifth and biggest comeback. >> so. so when i read read the opening chapter and saw that happen, i said, well, that's into this book because in japan, the japanese culture does not yield itself. but the way the american culture yields is you got a silicon valley that went bankrupt four times. fifth time i made $1 billion. right. but that's not the way it is in japan. you explain why he culturally, why this is. he is a gambling man. he is not japanese, joe. >> he's an outsider. >> he's korean. japanese. his grandfather came. >> in 1917. when korea was a colony. >> they were talking about how badly they were treated. they were put in the coal mines. they

were slave labor. >> they were treated. >> appallingly during the war. and then after the war, they. >> were in a shantytown. which i visited. it's now a car park, by the way. but but masa was born in 57. on the edge of that shantytown. but in a few years, actually, although he says he was born dirt poor. things were getting better. his father. >> but he's he's still, though. talk about the dream, the nightmare, the recurring nightmare he still has. well, he his. >> father made. >> money, initially. >> as a bootlegger. >> then as a. pig breeder. >> and then. >> as a. >> loan shark, and. >> then into. >> pachinko slot machine gambling. but when he grew up, there were all these pigs around the tin shacks, and masa told me that he had recurrent nightmares of smelling the pig. >> excrement in. his nostrils. >> and he said, that was a great, actually, a motivation. >> it still wakes him back up all these years later. mike. he still has that nightmare, wakes up and it drives him. >> so this. incredible

character, literally a billionaire, an incredible character. how do the markets accept a guy who is willing to risk billions and lose billions and then make a comeback a couple of times? >> how did how did. >> the markets not say, hey, no, no, nothing to do with him? >> well, in japan he's a hero because he's so different. and he's he's a sort of dynamic, disruptive force. they like it. >> the institutions, not so much. >> i mean, the banks are up to their and the loans outside. >> in america. they kind. >> of go with. >> him. >> because he's made 1 or 2 huge successful calls like he spotted alibaba, he met jack ma and he said he said it was like smelling the horse flesh. i knew. this guy was a winner. and he said, i'm putting 20 million in there. i'm putting 80, 80 million. and he made more than 100 billion. so everybody remembers that. they remember yahoo! so, you know, he's got a lot going for him. we'll come to wework a bit later okay.

>> but isn't that the magic his scale. right. so we can look at wework. that was a disastrous fail that he doubled down, tripled down, quadrupled down on saying like, masa is over, but we work. you can just put over here. when you think about the amount of money that he has, the amount of chips he can put on the table. wework is just one single hand. he's got 15 more right alongside it. >> yeah. and look, he persuaded the crown prince of saudi arabia, mbs mohammed bin salman, to hand over $45 billion. he says in 45 minutes, actually, there was a lot more groundwork done. but there was a kind of convergence of interest. masa needed the money and mbs wanted access to silicon valley and the whole technology ecosystem. >> yeah, so talk about how while he's a folk hero to some in japan, he also is looked upon with contempt by many because he doesn't make anything. >> he doesn't build. >> cars, build cars, doesn't

make the perfect knife, doesn't create anything. he he does things that in america would make him a hero on wall street. but in japan, great suspicion of this man who you said is part p.t. barnum, part warren buffett. >> i think there is, frankly, prejudice, racial prejudice. because he's japan, korean, japanese, but also he's seen as a financial engineer. i mean, remember, joe, japan has had record interest rates for literally 30 years. they're just now moving up slightly. but he benefited from those cheap borrowing and then leave it up and made huge bets on the mobile internet he built. he bought just to be parochial. britain's best technology company in the middle of brexit. he got that for 30 billion and he's now worth 140 billion arm holdings. so i think that the japanese establishment doesn't really trust him. you know, what is he

actually up to? he's a financial engineer rather than a real engineer. >> and isn't that why he's he's looked up to here? because those financial engineers with the deepest pockets can play in any deal and bet really big. >> there's a. >> number of people who i interviewed for the book gambling man, bill gates. he admires him. he met him in the early 80s. bobby kotick of activision, he met him at the las vegas technology fair. but if you go around silicon valley and talk to the venture. capital funds, they don't like him. i mean, he came in with a wodge of money and he bid up all the valuations, so they weren't very happy at him disrupting their party. >> i want to go. i want to go from the gambling man, which is an extraordinary book and i predict is going to be an extraordinary movie. at some point it says. >> who's going to play masha? >> we will see. it just jumps off the page. but i'm going to go back to another book of yours. it's one of my favorites called the powerful and the

damned. and it's fascinating. when you got into the financial times, you were determined to make it more than a newspaper. you wanted to make it a media enterprise, and you were struggling then, not struggling then. you were you were struggling to push the culture along. then to say, we are moving into a new age and this is how we're going to do it. we're still moving into that new age. you look at what's happening at the times. you look at what your friend emma tucker is doing at the wall street journal. they're still pushing. you know, i emma was at the event last night and i said, i just we love holding up your paper. she goes look at it online. you know she's like look at it. >> you know we're. >> really focusing on the digital. but that transformation is still going on. where are we? where are we going media wise? >> joe, as you well know, and mika knows, journalists are really flexible and adaptable.

they love change. they like taking orders. no, i mean, it's hard. you know. >> i was. >> going. >> to say. >> if you if you start trying to say, well, maybe we could do this. no, you have to set a clear sense of direction. and back in 2000 and 506, it was basically digital. first we need to change the business model. it's broken. we need a subscription model and we need to be digital first online. and that was 20 years ago, right? a lot of people took a long time to wake up to the fact they needed to change the business model. now, right now, we're in a completely different era. how is ai going to make impact the newsroom? you've got to use it. you can't turn your back on that. and also journalists need multiple skills. they can't just be good writers. they need to be tech savvy. they need to use software, and they've got to be able to appear on tv. maybe they've got great faces for radio. but, you know, sometimes

you. >> have to be adaptable. >> a lot of journalists, especially the younger journalists, and i'm not maligning anybody. of course not. age. >> of course not. >> but they have to know how to establish eye contact with people. stop looking at your phone. establish eye contact when you're talking. >> that's not just journalists. >> yeah. >> yeah, everyone. >> but also they need to. not just behind be behind the screen. yeah, they need to get out and interview talk to real people. i mean, this was a huge problem in 2016. that's why the media flagellated themselves because they missed the trump phenomenon. well, if they'd been actually going out into pennsylvania in the midwest. right. all these these places. >> that the journalists fault. >> or is. that was. >> the journalists. >> have them under the gun. more clicks, more stories. keep writing. yeah. >> they'd love. >> to be out. >> in. >> the field. that's the problem. and you you've said on the program there's the news desert. a lot of these newspapers have folded because their advertising has disappeared. so they don't have the resources to report. on the

other hand. right. i speak guardedly here because i do have a lot of journalist friends in america. but, you know, there's too much opinion and not enough reporting of what's actually going on. that's a big problem. >> yeah. and i wanted to ask you on that front what, based on all of your reporting, you look at the powerful and the damned, when you were writing that, it was really the lead up to the 2008 collapse. and so much of the beginning of your book was chronicling what was coming. and you took a while, but you all figured out what was coming. i want to ask you about where we are financially right now, economically right now, very concerned about three bubbles. i'm concerned about the crypto bubble, which sounds i mean, go back and look at the big short. and what and what and what they were talking about. as far as nothing connected to those mortgages that banks kept giving, getting out crypto sounds an awful lot like that. i'm worried about the fiscal bubble. we've got a $36 trillion

debt at some point that crashes, and we've got stock market valuations extraordinarily high. i'm curious, are you concerned that we may be moving toward another 2008 with, with with these bubbles? >> well, history never repeats itself. it sometimes rhymes. i think that i'm not sure that we have a bubble. i do worry about the level of debt. and if the president is going to introduce yet more, you know, renew those tax cuts and then you have tariffs on top. i mean, this is very disruptive. it's dangerous. interesting the way treasury secretary descent is not talking about 50% tariffs. he's looking at lower maybe progressive. it's very interesting that president trump has not announced anything substantial on china. he's kind of waiting. so you do have to distinguish between what the blood and thunder, the noise and the shock and awe now and what's actually going to happen. the

other the other point is that the markets got a real wake up this week when stargate, you know, you suddenly hear about deep sea china. i maybe they've got a real short cut. and you saw the froth blown off a lot of these stocks. they've come back a bit. but that tells you that in certain areas their valuations are very high. last point i do think still we're going to see a it's a great age of opportunity. and therefore there may be still some you know, prospects for gains in the market. >> okay. the new book, gambling man the secret story of the world's greatest disrupter, masayoshi son. it's on sale now. author and former editor of the financial times, lionel barber, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. it's good to see you and stephanie ruhle. thank you as well. we're going to be watching the 11th hour tonight. i don't know how you do it, but thank you. that's

at 11:00 eastern right here on msnbc. >> mika is talking about how you stay up past 630. we're asleep. >> i just sleep under my desk and then pop right. >> back up. and i like your latest instagram post about the law school, soon to be graduates who are losing their jobs at d.o.j. >> okay, these are the top law school grads that get to be in this attorney general program. it is a program that has existed for 60 years. 200 of them got their offers rescinded three days ago because it's currently frozen. and this is sort of the government's, you know, back door way to get these top kids from the top law schools to join the government, rather than the private sector, where they can make two, three, five times what they normally have. when you talk to people in the department of justice, in the legal profession, this could be devastating. >> it is devastating. coming up, we'll take a thank you staff. we'll take a look at the other stories making headlines this morning, including the new project donald trump wants elon musk to take on. morning joe is back in a moment.

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since june. he made the announcement on truth social, claiming the biden administration abandoned the astronauts. musk responded, saying his company would help them. the two astronauts were only supposed to be at the iss for eight days, but engineers at nasa and boeing discovered issues with the spacecraft that was meant to bring them home. they are now set to return to earth in march, when a new crew arrives to the iss. police in new orleans say they are confident in the work being done to secure the city ahead of the super bowl and mardi gras. it follows the terror attack on new year's day. officials say they are collaborating with louisiana state police, homeland security and the nfl security team and implementing added protections around the perimeter of the french quarter. and more than a billion people from beijing to new york city are celebrating the lunar new year. the new moon

marks the year of the snake. it considered it's considered the most important holiday in many asian countries, and prompts the world's largest annual migration in china. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu is set to meet with president trump's special envoy to the middle east, steven witkoff, today. the meeting comes as netanyahu will visit washington next week, as israel and the u.s. enter a new phase of relations under a second trump administration. the relationship reset takes place while the cease fire negotiated under the biden administration is still in its early and very fragile days. joining us now, msnbc analyst and author of the beinart notebook on substack, peter beinart. he has a new book out entitled being jewish after the destruction of gaza. and i

want to ask you about that. good to have you on board. but first, what do you make of this new relationship and new direction that trump's administration is taking toward the middle east? and the recent comments about gaza? >> well. donald trump said that the people of gaza should all go to egypt or jordan. yeah, this is a monstrous statement. >> this is. >> a call. >> for mass. >> ethnic cleansing. the people of gaza are not are. >> mostly refugees who were expelled from their homes, from what's now israel. and now that entire territory has been destroyed. most of the hospitals, most of the schools, most of the agriculture, most of the buildings with our weapons. and so donald trump's response is not that it should be rebuilt or not, that people deserve basic freedoms, but that they should all be forced out. >> to go into other countries. it's an extraordinary statement. >> okay. mike barnicle and then, reverend. >> peter. >> i think everybody, every thinking person in the world understands israel's response to october 7th and regarded as legitimate. >> no, i don't. >> okay. well, you can answer the following question then. but

do you think the end analysis of what happened october 7th with regard to israel turned out to be a moral, cultural and theological disaster for israel? >> absolutely. look, there are more. >> children who have been killed in gaza, a tiny territory, 2. >> million. >> people than in all the wars in the entire world over the last four years. more child amputees in gaza than anywhere in human history. but you know who's not gone? hamas. we see them parading around the streets. and this was entirely predictable. every single palestinian analyst. said this, that in fact, you're creating more hamas fighters because when you kill so many people, you get more people who want revenge. this is a political problem israel has. >> so what ought to have been the response? >> you have. >> to deal when you're dealing with an oppressed people, palestinians who live under a state that even israel's human rights organizations have called apartheid. what was done on october 7th was evil. but if you want to deal and make sure it never happens again, you have to deal with the root of the

grievance. you have to deal with the fundamental lack of basic rights that these people have. you have to give them a horizon, a path to freedom. if you have that, israelis and palestinians have become safer. >> peter, when nine over 11 happened, i reached out to mort zuckerman, who headed the conference of jewish organizations. he arranged for me to go to israel. i met with sharon perez. perez arranged for me to meet with yasser arafat. yes. what happened to the day where there was some kind of discussion between palestinian leaders and jewish leaders? because i. i actually was there and perez was the one that arranged that kind of meeting. and how have we gone now to where it is acceptable to say, let's just wipe out a whole group of people, as donald trump has just said, let's just move them out, let's destroy gaza. how is that even acceptable to people on both sides of. >> this question? >> a lot of the. >> blame, i. >> think, goes to the united states, because benjamin

netanyahu, for his entire political career, has been telling israelis, we can do whatever we want to the palestinians, we can make a palestinian state impossible. we can settle the west bank, and it will not cost us anything in terms of relations with the united states and his his opponents, like ehud barak and tzipi livni said, no, no, we can't do this. it's going to cost us something. and we proved netanyahu right. and that is part of the reason that the israeli government has become more and more radically right wing. >> so what's your sense, peter, of what comes next? as you say, these are palestinian refugees are coming back home to a destroyed nation. there's been talk of the saudis wanting to invest and help in the rebuilding other middle eastern nations. what are the next five, ten years look like in gaza in your eyes? >> you can't. >> rebuild gaza if gaza is under a blockade, if people and goods can't move in and out, there's no real chance for economic development. we have to understand what it's like. gaza is half the size of new york city to be imprisoned in that territory your entire life, to never be able to leave. the great israeli journalist amira

hass tells the story of a young woman in gaza who got cancer, was allowed to leave gaza to go to the west bank. all of her cousins were so envious of her because she had been able she got cancer and be allowed to leave. that's the level of desperation that exists in that territory. my friend mohammed shahada, the great palestinian journalist, said everyone he knew in gaza had contemplated suicide, even though it's a grave sin in islam, you cannot deny people their basic freedom and think that they're going to be able, that you're going to have peace with them. these two peoples live next to each other. if palestinians can't live with dignity, israeli jews are not safe. >> what do you hope people will take away from the book? >> i hope people will take away from the fact that the jewish tradition that i was raised in, that i believe in with all of my heart, believes that all human beings are of infinite dignity and that human beings are more important than states, more important than governments. so instead of always asking the question, does israel have a right to exist as a jewish state? i would like us to ask

the question, do the children of gaza have a right to exist? and if they're being killed in record numbers, maybe we need to ask some hard questions about the political system that denies them basic human rights. >> the new book, being jewish after the destruction of gaza, is out now. peter beinart, thank you very much for coming on the show. thank you for sharing your book with us. and still ahead, the trump administration is reportedly looking into pulling funding from some homeland security agencies to help immigrations and customs enforcement. we'll dig into what departments might be impacted by departments might be impacted by that. we're back businesses start small, but a lot of them take off. as your business grows, shipstation grows with you. so you can sync and manage all your orders... no matter how big you get. ♪♪ shipstation's custom automations maximize your team's time. plus, you get more carrier options, at the lowest possible rates. ♪♪ keep your business growing. head to shipstation.com to start your free trial today.

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for thoughtful living. >> thoma. >> so my message to federal employees who receive this is, yeah, the president has tried to terrorize you for about a week and then gives you a little sweetheart offer. if you resign in the next week, we're just going to pay you for doing nothing for the next seven months. don't be fooled. he's tricked hundreds of people with

that offer. if you accept that offer and resign, he'll stiff you. just like he stiffed the contractors. he doesn't have any authority to do this. do not be fooled by this guy. >> democratic senator tim kaine warning federal workers not to take an offer from the trump administration to resign immediately in exchange for a buyout from the federal government. we're going to dig into the details of that proposal. also ahead, we'll go through what's next for the federal funding freeze after a judge blocked it minutes before it was set to take effect. meanwhile, the trump administration is revising another funding pause that was causing a lot of confusion within the state department. plus, defense secretary pete hegseth takes action against a decorated general who has been a frequent target of president trump. we'll explain what's happening with former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff

mark milley. and before taking office, donald trump hinted at a government conspiracy connected to the dozens of drone sightings over several states. yesterday, his administration gave an update. and it doesn't sound that much different than what the biden administration said. good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is wednesday, january 29th. ali made me feel like it was friday. i tricked you. it's a good thing along with willie. well, she just kind of has that friday look, the friday. >> the jeans. >> yeah. the vibe. >> right? okay, so we've got the today. >> by the way. >> it's only wednesday. >> oh, good. >> we have. >> three more days. >> you tricked me, ali. vitali. two more days. >> wednesday. >> thursday. friday. >> oh, that's true, we're not. >> we got four hours in front of us. >> so true, so true. >> exactly. >> at the fourth hour. jonathan lemire is here. he is a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics. the host of way too early. ali

vitali, president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation. reverend al sharpton is here with us and author and nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss joins us this morning. >> we have a lot going on today. i mean, a lot going on every day, right. really quickly, let's just get the headlines. new york times, actually picture of la in the aftermath. and of course, there's going to be so much cleaning up to do. the wall street journal, again, a conservative voice for conservatism in the republican party. it's fascinating going to their opinion pages with liz, because over the last couple of days they have been very clear about well, first of all, they called out the violent the cop beaters as they said it and them getting pardoned. obviously yesterday, rfk jr. we're going to talk about that a little bit more. they've had concerns about others today. this is what they write about. tulsi gabbard very briefly. voters want disruption

in washington, but it would be something else entirely for the senate to confirm. a director of national intelligence who has a record of defending those who subvert u.s. interests. when former rep tulsi gabbard testifies thursday, will republicans pose questions that serve the public interest or simply go along to get along with president trump? the question isn't mrs. gabbard's patriotism it's judgment. and what message would it send friends and foes to confirm? a director of national intelligence who doesn't really seem to believe in protecting national intelligence. and we're going to be talking again about bobby junior. and that certainly seems to be in trouble. but tulsi gabbard, another one. kash patel coming up this week, had some news coming out that i know has to concern a lot of lot of republicans, even republicans that went along with pete hegseth when, you know, it's

just sacrosanct that when they're hostages and you're trying to get them home, nobody says anything until they're in u.s. custody. and he's out leaking to the wall street journal while they're not in u.s. custody, according to cbs news reports yesterday. and fbi officials were just absolutely furious that he they believe he may have risked the lives of those people by being so reckless. so we're sure to hear about that, too, rfk but here, tulsi gabbard, who i guess we keep hearing is the one that's in the most the nominee in the most trouble right now. yeah. if these nominees were democrats, these republican senators rightly would be yelling and screaming about everything you just laid out that was disqualifying to have had such a cozy relationship with russia, disqualifying to have met with assad in syria, disqualifying to do all the things she's done. and the same goes for kash patel. but so far, the answer to the wall street journal editorial board's question will

republicans. >> just go. along to get along. >> with donald trump? has been, yes, with a few exceptions. lisa murkowski, susan collins. but by and large, enough republicans have said this just is not worth it. >> at the. beginning of. >> trump's second term for me to cross him right out of the gate. but if they're being honest and they really are concerned about national security, they will ask some tough questions and perhaps exercise their power to vote against somebody who is not qualified to have this job. i think many people believe that three people up this week may be three who posed the greatest risk, the greatest danger on all fronts. whether you're talking about tulsi gabbard and most republicans agree she poses great risk and danger. rfk jr, who whose nomination obviously even before the chicken in the blender story came out and. >> all the other. >> yeah, exactly. also in danger. and then kash patel, who

has said he will arrest members of the press, has an enemies list again. we'll see if there are four republicans who actually don't think it's a good idea to have an fbi director who, first of all, again, according to other people in fbi, risked the lives of hostages in a hostage release, said he was going to arrest members of the media and has an enemies list. he's going after. and we're finding out with pete hegseth, we're going to give this story to, isn't it? isn't it amazing? i mean, i think a lot of lot of pete hegseth critics probably are thanking him this morning for proving that he's doing exactly what they said he was going to do, because here's a guy who said, oh, we're focusing too much on woke. we're focusing too much on politics. we need to focus on the warrior culture and what he's doing. what's he doing? he's focusing on politics. he's focusing on political retribution instead of readiness, instead of the warrior culture. instead, he's

focusing on going after the most highly decorated general soldier, along with 1 or 2 others of our time. >> so unsurprising. >> but that's also what you have to do to stay in trump's good graces. at this point, it's the same game that senators are playing, and that's why, despite serious concerns about hegseth, about rfk jr, about tulsi gabbard, about kash patel, the list could go on. but there's not a good faith debate going on in the senate because of that other permission structure that trump has created, which is crossed me at your own political peril. joni ernst would have had serious and legitimate questions to ask, given her background about pete hegseth, and ultimately was persuaded out of that, whether it was by hegseth himself or the political climate is up to us. but the hill and we've seen this before. yes, tulsi gabbard might be in trouble today, but we saw that same thing with pete hegseth. i remember when that nomination was supposedly on death's door and they never pulled it. we went through the holidays and there it was. there's a reason we're seeing all three of these

nominating contests or nominating hearings on the same day, and it's to almost dilute the controversial so that people aren't quite sure where to focus, which has been the entire strategy so far. >> and i'd say it goes beyond serious concerns. it's evidence and patterns that these nominees have in their lives. let's start with robert f kennedy jr. as our top story, president trump's nominee to be the next secretary of health and human services, he'll appear before the senate finance committee for his first confirmation hearing today. now ahead of that, his cousin caroline kennedy is speaking out, warning senators that while rfk jr is family, he is not the right choice for this job. in a video posted to social media, caroline kennedy accuses rfk jr of being a, quote, predator who should be rejected by the senate. >> now that bobby has been

nominated by president trump to be secretary of health and human services, a position that would put him in charge of the health of the american people, i feel an obligation to speak out overseeing the fda, the nih, the cdc and centers for medicare and medicaid services, agencies that are charged with protecting the most vulnerable among us is an enormous responsibility, and one that bobby is unqualified to fill. he lacks any relevant government, financial management or medical experience. his views on vaccines are dangerous and willfully misinformed. these facts alone should be disqualifying. i've known bobby my whole life. we grew up together. it's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets, because bobby himself is a predator. he's always been charismatic, able to attract others through the strength of his personality, his willingness

to take risks and break the rules. i watch his younger brothers and cousins follow him down the path of drug addiction. his basement, his garage, his dorm room were always the center of the action where drugs were available, and he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in a blender to feed to his hawks. it was often a perverse scene of despair and violence. that was a long time ago, and people can change. through his own strength and the many second chances he was given by people who felt sorry for the boy who lost his father, bobby was able to pull himself out of illness and disease. i admire the discipline that took and the continuing commitment it requires. but siblings and cousins who bobby encouraged down the path of substance abuse, suffered addiction, illness and death. while bobby has gone on to

misrepresent, lie and cheat his way through life. bobby is addicted to attention and power. bobby preys on the desperation of parents of sick children, vaccinating his own kids while building a following, hypocritically discouraging other parents from vaccinating theirs. even before he fills this job, his constant denigration of our health care system and the conspiratorial half truths he's told about vaccines, including in connection with samoa's deadly 2019 outbreak of measles, have cost lives. >> i can't even imagine how painful that must have been for. i mean, she's a very private person, and just from, as a point of view of someone who's had a sibling who's nominated, this is such a proud moment for a family. when someone in your family is asked to serve. and i can't even imagine what it took

to say all those things and put them out in the public square. willy. >> and this comes months after his own siblings. caroline, of course, is his cousin. his own siblings came out and spoke out against his presidential campaign and said he shouldn't be anywhere near the white house. as mika said, caroline kennedy doesn't do this. >> she does. no. >> this was a this probably took a lot for her to get out in front of a camera and give such a detailed critique, not just of his views on medicine and vaccines, but of his character. she's indicting the character of a guy she grew up with for her entire life, and saying he just shouldn't be anywhere near running our health system. >> and she's not that type of person. i've met her on several occasions and she's very private. she's not one you can enlist on a cause. whatever's hot at the hour. can you come? she's not that type of person. she's very deliberate. so i would think that this was very painful for her and well thought out that she had to do this to

call her cousin a predator who she grew up with, and to say, yes, people can change, but he hasn't. i remember and i talked about this a couple of weeks ago when we were doing the choose healthy life at during the covid 19, and we were having vaccinations for people at black churches, at the historic abyssinian baptist church, where adam clayton powell, pastor, we had a vaccine display of reverend calvin butts, who's past now, and i and others with deborah frazier house. bobby kennedy had people picket the black church against vaccines. we told people, if you want one, fine. if you don't know, they picketed this kind of venomous behavior while he was vaccinating his own children. >> that's insanity of it all. and during covid, when i would have friends who were supporters of this new anti-vax lunacy, just total lunacy on the basics,

i would remind them, but you've vaccinated your own children, right? six times before they were in school, you were vaccinated, your parents vaccinated you, and now suddenly you know you who was you were. because the funny thing is, conservatives, we used to make fun of the hippies on the west coast that were anti-vaxxers because it was so crazy. you look mississippi, alabama, georgia, the states in the deep south, arkansas, they had the highest vaccination rates and the truly disadvantaged were the greatest beneficiaries of that. and these diseases wiped out. now i i'm going to read another op ed at some point. but this is a wall street journal editorial page, jason riley and i'll read more of it later. i mean, he's very conservative trump supporting guy, but he's talking about something that i've been thinking about over the past couple of days, and that is that

every administration overreaches and every administration pays for overreaching. and you talk to people in the trump administration, people around the trump administration, they believe, like everybody who walks through those gates, that this is the end of the end of history, the smartest people ever to walk through the gates. and everybody i'm mike and i will not say the administration. we said this too, but you think you're the smartest people ever. do you not think the people that left with a 22% approval rating at the end of their administration, when they walk through the gates, also thought they were the smartest people ever? yeah. you're not. we've seen this rodeo before, but this is this is jason riley. what? he talks. >> about you. >> this distinction matters. okay? we haven't seen this rodeo before. >> no. >> have you seen others? it's about power that comes and goes. for maga diehards, there's no such thing as a president going too far. it wasn't mr. trump's base, however, who put him over the top in the election. swing voters who couldn't bring themselves to cast a ballot for

kamala harris, or the major reason mr. trump won the popular vote and the presidency. the distinction matters. trump loyalists don't care if the president's pardons. on january 6th, protesters who assaulted police officers after he condemned george floyd's protesters who assaulted police officers. it doesn't concern them that robert f kennedy jr, the president's nominee for secretary of health and human services, declared as recently as 2023 that, quote, there's no vaccine that's safe and effective. >> okay. >> 2023. they may not care, but a hell of a lot of americans do. >> and we'll have much more on this straight ahead. but first, we'll get the latest from jerusalem on the ceasefire in gaza. and what is next for the hostages still being held by hamas. that new reporting straight ahead on morning joe.

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unravel programs that don't align with his agenda. the stay only affects the disbursement of government funds that have already been authorized, not money that was being sought. a decision is expected to be issued on monday. the ruling was seen as a win for nonprofit and public health groups, who filed a lawsuit earlier in the day. however, the order does not touch on the legality of trump's freeze on grants and loans. meanwhile, the move sparked chaos as to whether to pause the pause would impact medicaid reimbursement, which provides health insurance to more than 72 million people. several states reported portals were offline yesterday afternoon. the white house blamed an outage for locking out agencies. later in the day, medicaid programs reported they were finally able to resume accessing their payment system. at one point.

there was also concern about the sudden suspension of snap benefits, social security and medicare. but the white house says those benefits are not impacted. >> well, i mean, there's so much to talk about here. >> the chaos is kind of the point. well, one of them, one of the points. >> you know, absolutely. i think on on medicaid, especially jonathan lamir don't know what what caused that outage, maybe provide us more insight. medicaid though, you know, it must be said medicaid drives rural health care, medicaid drives even, you know, even for middle class americans. a lot of nursing homes, a lot of other things that that that americans don't understand, medicaid helps on. it keeps a lot of hospitals open all across america, especially in rural america. so when it went offline yesterday,

obviously devastating. but, you know, jonathan, i was thinking yesterday and. when the judge stepped in it wasn't a surprise at all. you know, we used to have this debate about line item vetoes, pass a budget to give the president the power to do line item vetoes. it didn't get through. it didn't pass. i see. no way i could be wrong here. but that courts would allow congress the article one branch to do what madison said is their their one of their most important powers, and that is to fund government programs and then allow the article two branch, the president to, in effect, do line item vetoes if they don't like this. so we're not going to allow that funding. we don't like that. so just as a matter of law, as a matter of the constitution, i don't i don't see any court, any serious court holding this up. >> yeah. that had been the legal speculation is that the

president was an overreach of the presidential powers here, that he does have the ability to pause funding streams, but not to end them. and certainly this judge yesterday, though, did not rule on the legality of the matter, put this freeze in effect until monday. but i can't stress enough, as we sort of sift through this. this has been the story here in washington the last couple of days. i mean, yes, the medicare funding the white house has said that was a coincidental glitch that had nothing to do with these pauses. some democrats not so sure. senator chris murphy, for instance, suggested there was more to it. we have heard from several states that they went down. they also some republicans, some some red state governors raising alarms, saying, look, my constituents need this. and that's part of this here. so many of the programs that were targeted directly, intentionally targeted here, freezing their funds impact trump voters as well as other americans. and it's a long list here. it's snap benefits, which subsidized school meal programs, usaid programs, homeless veterans programs,

mental health programs, you know, victims programs, the amount of social services that depend on this federal funding, federal funding. it's a really complicated process and time consuming process to get that money approved in the first place. these sort of organizations have really been left reeling here. it's the first moment. i'll also close with this, where the democrats do to make his point earlier, have have sort of not been able to find steady footing to combat some of the chaos. and some of that is a deliberate strategy, as i reported yesterday. >> as well. >> but this is though this is a moment where they found their voice, at least for now, saying, look, this is too far. and they were joined by some republicans while doing so now. >> and you are so right. people that are running around going, rev, what's the what's the democrat strategy? what's the democrat strategy? why aren't they doing anything. what's it. well, you talk to top democratic leaders on the hill and they're like, we're going to see we're going to wait. nobody's going to be able to say that we came out early.

>> we're not. >> going to. and we did what we did in 2017. we're not the resistance. we're the loyal opposition. we're going to wait and they are waiting. and every day they believe they're getting something. another powerful political tool to use against republicans. and yesterday, i mean, when the medicaid portal shuts down, when pepfar is frozen and now unfrozen, all these things that are happening, these democrats that are telling everybody, hold, wait, hold on. so bunker hill thing, wait till you see the whites of their eyes. you know, it's very interesting how this is happening. >> no, it is very interesting. and i think for those seasoned democrats, that's been the battle before. they knew just give it time. these people were hurt themselves. i told hakeem

jeffries, who i know well, he grew up in national action network. i said that when i was younger. you talk sports all the time. i was a big boxing fan. i knew muhammad ali. oh yeah, and i asked ali. i said, how did you beat george foreman? he was much younger than you. stronger than you? yeah. you went to africa. how did you beat this guy? he said, well, well, i'll tell you. he says, i couldn't fight like i used to, i couldn't dance. i laid on the ropes and let him punch himself out. we call it the rope a dope, right? he says. and then when i saw the opening, i knew i had to get him now, and i hit him when i knew he was tired. i think the democrats have rope a dope. donald trump. >> coming up, we'll speak with former washington governor jay inslee, who just wrapped up his third term in office. he'll react to president trump's push to freeze federal funding and much more. in our fourth hour of morning joe.

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>> as immigration enforcement roundups continue across the country, nbc news has learned the trump administration is planning to carry out what's being described as major immigration operations and at least three american cities every week. that's according to three sources familiar with the planning. these so-called major roundups already have begun, beginning in chicago on sunday, followed by new york city yesterday, sources say aurora, colorado, will be tomorrow. newly sworn in homeland security secretary kristi noem was on the ground in new york city yesterday to observe immigration enforcement operations there and posting on social media about it. additionally, sources say ice is 25. field offices were told last week. was she wearing a flak jacket? yeah, she was wearing the gear that the ice and atf agents wear on the raids. she did she go on the raids with them? so why? she's wearing the jacket. well. >> she. >> was live streaming them

anyway. >> she was live streaming the raids. >> yeah, yeah, on social media. very good. smart move. them sources say isis 25 field offices were told last week to enhance their routine operations by meeting a quota of between 1200 and 1500 arrests every day. that news was first reported earlier this week by the washington post. meanwhile, nbc news. also has learned that trump administration officials are actively considering pulling funding from the tsa to make up for a budget shortfall facing ice. joining us now with more on that report. nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. julia, good morning. what more can you tell us on this? >> well, look, ice is facing a 230 million, $230 million shortfall because they are obviously burning more than they can right now. that shortfall was even under the biden administration. and they actually did an estimate about how much it costs to deport one migrant from arrest to the time they're on the plane. it's about $10,500. so you can do the math.

trump has promised to deport millions of millions a year. basically, they need more money. they're trying to ramp up detention space so they have some place to hold them. but in the end, they're going to have to really ask congress for more money. but the low hanging fruit right now is to reprogram. so they're looking at pulling from tsa. that might get some backlash if people are looking at longer travel lines. of course, you also have national security threats to worry about. and then they're also looking at pulling from cisa that cybersecurity and infrastructure agency that trump has criticized because he thinks that they put their finger too hard on the weight when it came to judging what was misinformation around the 2020 election. he's also looking at pulling from the coast guard. that's often a place where money gets dragged from during tough budget times at dhs. so some of this is just to show how big this operation is, but how little funding they actually have to pull it off. and especially as you look at these plans to come, we understand they want to do three all hands on deck cities every week where they pull in lots of law enforcement agencies from across d.o.j. like the marshals

and atf. but then when they don't have the manpower, they're going to be doing things in smaller cities. so you will still hear of raids in places like los angeles and the dc area. but what happens is these are the places they really want to make that show. like what you saw from kristi noem in new york city yesterday. >> so we should just remind viewers, of course, that the tsa created after the september 11th terror attacks and the idea of defund or defunding that, i mean, what could that tell us a little more about the security implications here for an agency that, yes, we all sometimes groan when we have to stand in a long line. but at its core mission, at least in terms of these airports, has been extremely successful. >> right? dhs itself was created after nine over 11, and they boosted tsa as a result of that to try to prevent terror attacks. it's its number one mission. of course, it's really grown in to take on what a lot of people would criticize as being too much of an immigration mission. but tsa, yes, they're responsible when there's intelligence coming from overseas that we shouldn't be bringing liquids or a laptop or all these things that we can't bring on a plane, that's up to

them. and those lines people are groaning about could get a lot longer if they start to cut some of those agents from that line. jonathan. >> all right. >> nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley, thank you so much. coming up, we'll go live to capitol hill ahead of today's confirmation hearing for robert f kennedy jr. how a scathing message from his own cousin, caroline kennedy, may impact his chances of becoming secretary of health and human services. morning joe is. human services. morning joe is. >> back in a moment. with stamps.com you can print stamps and shipping labels. (♪♪) whenever, wherever. (♪♪) get the flexibility you need to run your business. start your risk-free trial today at stamps.com. some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking allstate first. like you know to check the weather first, before sailing. it's gonna get nasty later. yep. hey! perfect day for sailing, huh?

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(♪♪) print postage and schedule free carrier pickups on your time. (♪♪) start your risk-free trial today at stamps.com. curves. >> curated upgrades, elevated design for thoughtful living. >> thoma. >> the trump administration has reversed course on its order to pause nearly all foreign aid, and it's now exempting core life saving programs that involve medicine, medical services, food and shelter, the wall street journal reports, citing a state department memo. a state department directive last week called for the broad suspension of foreign assistance, while a

three month review of the aid programs was carried out. that move caused confusion and concern among humanitarian organizations, who worry that the distribution of vital assistance everything from food to vaccines, would be disrupted. the journal notes state department officials have yet to clarify whether the pause applies to the agency's financing of weapons purchases for taiwan and ukraine. president trump is doubling down on his proposal to relocate palestinians from gaza to jordan and egypt. over the weekend, trump suggested palestinians leave the gaza strip in order to, quote, clean out the enclave. he elaborated on his plan monday night, telling reporters he has spoken about it with the president of egypt. >> we helped him a lot. >> in that year. he helped us. a friend of mine, he's he's a very

rough part of the world, to be honest. it's rough, as they say. it's a rough neighborhood. but i think he can do it. >> and i. >> think he will. >> do it now. >> egypt and jordan have rejected the idea, and a group of 22 nations known as the arab league said trump's proposal would only prolong the conflict. >> let's bring right now from jerusalem, outside prime minister benjamin netanyahu's office is nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons. keir, what can you tell us? >> well, there was no sign of that language from president trump about cleaning out gaza in the readouts. after conversations between his secretary of state, marco rubio, and king abdullah of jordan or the foreign minister of egypt. what those readouts released the readout after the conversation with the egyptian foreign minister did say is that as far as the us is concerned, the secretary of state told egypt that hamas can play as far as america is concerned, no part in

any kind of future for gaza. and at the same time, and it's quite a split screen. you're seeing hamas officials in gaza as thousands return to the north to their devastated homes. you're seeing hamas soldiers and officials on the streets. you're seeing them in clean uniforms, doing taking selfies, holding babies. so i guess that's hamas's response to that. the question might be, what is president trump trying to do here? is he kind of setting out a maximalist position in order to try to negotiate, or is he genuinely thinking that he could push along a policy that would be incredibly, possibly existentially destabilizing for jordan and egypt? and in terms of those those negotiations, his envoy, steve witkoff, is here now in israel. he has said that

he wants to go to gaza. we are expecting him today to meet with prime minister netanyahu. as you mentioned, this is prime minister netanyahu's office behind me here. we did see an idf helicopter fly in just, i guess, about 30 minutes ago, whether that was. bringing steve witkoff, we cannot say. but certainly it's clear that the situation here in israel and gaza is perhaps the main foreign policy priority for the trump administration. prime minister netanyahu has been invited next week to see president trump in washington. he'll be the first foreign leader to visit president trump since the inauguration, so that that is a sign, i think. but this is stage one, and the cease fire is fragile. and the trump administration, for example, has withdrawn support for unwra, the un organization that has been supplying food and medical supplies to palestinians in gaza, in which the israelis

accused of being infiltrated by hamas. so that just that simple question raises the question, how do you continue this deal if you can't send a important life supporting materials supplies into gaza? and of course, these the israeli government would would disagree with that and say it's still it's still possible. it's stage one. there are three americans who are still hostages. keith siegel is one of them. maybe he will be released this week, but then we have stage two and stage three. and then what future for gaza it is to say it is on a knife edge is under underestimating. >> coming up, a live report from cnbc ahead of the fed's decision on interest rates. but first, emmy award winning actor john larroquette joins us here at the table, we'll talk about the third season of night court that's been full of surprises. that conversation is just ahead on morning joe. >> i've got to go out.

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defendant was hired to run a murder mystery holiday party and wouldn't. break character, even after it was made clear everyone wanted it to be over. >> wanting it to be. over is implied when you said murder mystery party. >> hey, murder mystery. parties are. not on trial. if so, i'd. >> have. >> to. >> recuse. >> myself because i love them. everyone gets dressed up, the lights go out, there's a dead body, and you have to figure out who did it and why. my date disappeared into a bedroom with a different person. >> i've got the. perfect way. >> to keep. >> your man happy this christmas. the standard 3000. >> would you. >> care for a. >> demonstration, ma'am? >> ma'am? just because somebody said i was eating. >> yogurt earlier. >> that is a look at season three. >> of the nbc. >> sitcom night court, originally airing famously for nine seasons from 1984 to 1992, the series returned in 2023, bringing back one of the original show's main characters,

lawyer dan fielding, who was played by our next guest, john larroquette, who won four consecutive emmys for his role in the original series. and john joins us now live in studio. also director on the series and executive producer. >> yes, sir. >> good morning. >> good morning. so thank you. >> you suffer. >> the same affliction that all three of us suffer. you saw yourself on camera and you cringed even after all. >> these years. >> yeah. >> i. >> don't i. >> don't like it. >> my. and you mentioned. >> your voice. >> my voice i. >> can. >> handle because i started in radio at a very young age. so my voice had to be sort of cultivated to get away from the new orleans. accent i had. but my face, even. >> when i direct. >> i famously put tape on the monitor so i don't see myself. and just watch the rest. >> of the scene. >> really, yes, i. >> can't. >> i just what all i see. >> is. >> this balloon nose and. these fat, terrible. >> you know, you're very good. you should watch yourself once in a while. people seem to like you. thank you. so let's go back to sort of the genesis of this new incarnation of night court,

because you did it. it was wildly successful. you won four emmys. you had other successful shows, the john larroquette show after that, when they called and said, we want to kind of get the band back together and do it again. you thought, what? >> no, thank you. very quickly and. >> very gratefully to. >> and the person that called me was melissa rauch. and i thought, what a it's. >> a good. >> idea if you want to. >> do it, because i think. >> it's the kind. of workplace. >> comedy that could. >> certainly stand a. >> a new version. >> of it. but there was. >> no reason to. >> pull my, my. >> butt. >> out of mothballs for. >> that because. >> i. thought selfishly, egotistically, i don't want. >> to be compared to myself when. >> i was 34 years old. i can't jump. >> as high. >> as i used to. >> i can't. >> run as fast. >> i love physical comedy, so i'm not. >> quite as agile. >> as i used to be. i'm not sure what's funny. >> about. >> him now. >> what is funny about him? and so for. >> a year and a half. >> she and i talked, and dan. >> rubin, who's our showrunner. >> we talked and i. >> kept saying no. >> and originally. >> melissa was not going to.

>> be in it. >> her company was. >> going to produce it. you know, she had a production deal. >> after leaving big. >> bang. >> so she was going to produce it. but after. >> we became. close friends during this. >> time. >> she thought. >> i really. >> i should do. >> this with you. >> then i thought, well. >> i'm i'm screwed. i know i have. >> to because she said yes. >> right. >> exactly right. >> it was sort of a pact. you sign a pact. so you are now, as i said, a defense attorney. we're on the original show. you were a prosecutor? >> yes. >> how does that change things for you? >> well, for the character, it changes. >> a lot. >> because, you know, and fielding is still rather misanthropic. he still doesn't have a lot of faith in the human species. and as a prosecutor, he could just. hammer people about. >> you deserve to be guilty. >> you deserve to go to jail. >> now he's on the other side of that table where he. >> has. >> to sort of figure out a way to defend these people. >> and. >> make it okay for what i do. and obviously the cases we get through that court. >> are minor things. >> we're not dealing with any heavy. crimes at all. so he has to sort of be more of a human being and more empathetic than he. probably is, naturally. tends to be. so. >> so, john, listening to you talk about the agony that you went through, whether to do it or not, to do it, and finally doing it again. how much of the character, though you've done a

lot in your life as an actor, you're a professional actor. how much of the character stays with you after an absence of time? >> i don't think much, you know, and i and i've had this conversation with my wife a lot, and the. only example i have of that not happening. i did a little independent film in my hometown in new orleans, playing a rather. >> depressive. >> angry. sour individual. and for several months after that, i was sort of angry and depressed and sour. and elizabeth said, this guy stuck with you. and i never considered myself a real actor. i'm a i'm a tv comedian. i, you know, whatever. but he stayed with me. but the rest of it doesn't, you know, it's just if it's on the page, it's on the stage. as jason roberts once famously said, i sort of i can leave it. >> i don't i'm. >> not daniel day-lewis by any stretch of the. imagination anywhere in. >> this room. >> and so it does. it doesn't stay. >> so when the first day of shooting for this reprise, you just walked right into it and started all over again. >> i did. yeah. and the first thing we see him, i've got a

beard down to here. this young lady knocks on his door. he's now a missing. he's a hermit, basically. he got married, finally found the love of his life. she died. and so he's sort of given up. but this young lady appears who's the daughter of his old friend, the judge. and it sort of pulls him back out into life. but the sarcasm and the acerbic humor was always there, because i think that is part of me. >> you mentioned being born and raised in new orleans. we're talking about in the commercial break. how has that extraordinary, unique city informed not just your life, but your profession? you were a musician, yes. how has it informed the kind of performer you are? >> well, i think that, you know, new orleans, there's a lot of pageantry in new orleans. i mean, there's mardi gras and there's festivals, and people dress up and they're out in the world parading down the streets and playing music and having a good time. >> so i. >> think enjoying oneself in that world is very natural to me. i was a musician as a as a young man, as you mentioned, and i euphemistically say about 18, i realized i could talk better than i could blow. so i put the saxophone down and started working in radio. but there's a lot of there's a lot of

jubilation in new orleans culture. and i think that helps you be gregarious and be extroverted on stage and in front of a camera. >> performance is encouraged in new orleans. question. let's take another look at a clip here from next week's episode, where john's character gets a little feedback from the head of the city's satisfaction initiative. >> who your. >> client was. >> not satisfied. do you often find. >> it. >> difficult relating to people who are younger than you? >> no, but i do find it difficult relating to people who are stupider than me. >> okay, i'm sensing some hostility, but when. >> one of our more. >> seasoned public defenders is called out of touch. oh. >> you got to make sure he's up to the job. you understand. >> that, >> right, guy? >> yeah. >> you know. >> what i understand is that swift. >> was correct when he said, when. >> a. >> true genius appears that all the dunces will form a

confederacy against him. >> oh. >> you're a swifty. >> oh. >> jonathan swift. >> her name is taylor. >> andrew reynolds is very funny. he's a great actor. >> he's great, he's great. i unfortunately, my i was doing a broadway play when he opened in book of mormon, so i couldn't see him. but my wife and youngest son went to see him, and they just praised him up and down. and i was very happy that he chose to come and do another thing. let me really quickly about this four camera sitcom format. actors like doing it. you work in front of an audience. it's sort of like doing a play. every friday we get and we do the show in front of the audience. so if you're that kind of actor who likes that feedback, it's a great show to be on. any, any four camera sitcom, like. >> four cameras on set? >> yes, four cameras on set in a semicircle. and we're shooting into the set and we just do each scene, you know, in sequence, like a play, and we'll repeat them. obviously, if we screw up or they think of a funnier line which writers always want to do, but the idea of getting that feedback from 300 people in the

house every, every friday night. >> i noticed you had a much easier time watching andrew perform in that clip. >> than watching yourself. absolutely right. >> you were locked in. >> on that one. i just caught myself on the back of myself and oh, the walter brennan story. >> night court. >> airs tuesdays on. >> nbc at 830 eastern streams the very next day on peacock. actor director john larroquette, john, it's so great to have. >> you here today. thank you, gentlemen. it was a pleasure. >> coming up, we'll have a live report from capitol hill as robert f kennedy is set to begin his first of two senate confirmation hearings for health and human services secretary. we'll also get a glimpse at his opening statement. just out. morning joe is back. >> in a moment. >> you got this, buddy. >> you got it. >> during an. >> asthma attack, every second feels. >> like an eternity. primatene mist. >> works fast. >> it's clinically shown to open airways quickly. get the number airways quickly. get the number one. fda approved shipstation lets you keep up with the growth of your business.

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robot. >> you'll never. >> scoop again and your. >> cat of litter. >> join the. whisker family and try. >> a little robot today. >> we have. >> no evidence at this time that. >> the reported. >> drone sightings pose a national security. or a public safety threat. >> or have. >> a foreign nexus. upon review of. available imagery.

>> it. >> appears that many of the reported sightings. >> are actually manned. aircraft that are being operated lawfully. the united states. coast guard is providing support to the state of new jersey, and has confirmed that there is no evidence of any foreign based involvement from coastal vessels. >> the government knows what is happening. look, our military knows where they took. >> off from. >> if it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. they know where it came from and where it went. and for some reason, they. >> don't want to comment. and i think they'd be better off. >> saying what it is our military knows. >> and our. >> our president knows. >> and for some reason. >> they want to keep people in suspense. >> i can't imagine it's the. >> enemy. >> because if it was the enemy. >> that blast it out, even if they were late, they'd blast it. something strange. >> is going on. for some reason, they don't want to tell the people and they should. >> after research and study the drones that were flying over new jersey and large numbers were

authorized to be flown by the faa for research and various other reasons. many of these drones were also hobbyists, recreational and private individuals that enjoy flying drones. in meantime in in time, it got worse due to curiosity. this was not the enemy. >> donald trump's press secretary, caroline leavitt, yesterday offering a very similar update on the drones spotted above new jersey as the one provided by admiral john kirby back in december. despite donald trump's insistence at the time the biden administration was keeping things from the public. welcome to the fourth hour of morning joe. at 6 a.m. on the west coast, 9 a.m. in the east, along with joe, jonathan lemire and me. we have revel back with us as well. and less than one hour from now, robert f kennedy jr. president trump's choice to be the next secretary of health and human services will face the senate finance

committee for the first of his two confirmation hearings. and ahead of that hearing, we're getting an idea of what he will tell senators on capitol hill. his opening statement reads in part. news reports have claimed that i am anti vaccine or anti industry. well, i am neither. i am pro safety. i worked for years to raise awareness about the mercury and toxic chemicals in fish, but that didn't make me make me anti fish. all of my kids are vaccinated and i believe vaccines have a critical role in health care. >> jonathan lemire that was actually one of the criticisms of rfk jr from caroline kennedy, who said he's made a lot of money by scaring parents into not vaccinating, vaccinating their children. and yet he's vaccinated all of his children. it must be said he has come under withering attacks, not

only by members of his own family, not only by the wall street journal editorial page, but most notably, as you've brought up before by the new york post, who just won just fierce anti rfk jr. editorial after another yeah. >> two murdoch owned papers there, the wall street journal and the new york post taking sort of different arguments, but getting to the same conclusion that robert f kennedy jr simply should not be confirmed to this very post. and you're right, he can he can pull whatever he wants in that statement. he has decades worth of a track record here of being a vaccine skeptic. we heard it from members of his own family, and we certainly will hear questions pointed, questions from democrats, perhaps even some republicans once this hearing gets started for the very latest. let's now bring in nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, just up the street here at the capitol. ryan set the scene for us. >> hey, jonathan. >> good morning. >> we have to keep.

>> in mind. >> that robert f kennedy jr. is a. >> scion of. >> one of the most famous political families in american history, the son of a former attorney general, the nephew of president john f kennedy. >> and he's. >> used his connection to his powerful political family as a platform to advocate. >> for a wide. >> range of controversial health care positions. and as a result, today he's going to get quite the grilling on capitol hill. this morning. >> members of. >> one of america's most famous families speaking out as robert f kennedy jr faces senate questions. >> i've known bobby my whole life. it's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets, because bobby himself is a predator. >> in a letter to caroline kennedy, rfk jr. s first cousin and. the daughter of president john f kennedy, warning the senators tasked with confirming her cousin to be the nation's health secretary that they should vote no. >> his views on vaccines are dangerous and willfully misinformed. bobby preys on the desperation of parents of sick children. vaccinating his own

kids while building a following, hypocritically discouraging other parents from vaccinating theirs. >> president trump's nominee has often advocated for a range of controversial health care positions, and expressed deep skepticism about vaccines that doctors consider life saving. from the covid 19 shot to the polio vaccine. >> there's no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective. >> he also. >> pushed false. >> claims linking vaccines to autism and claimed that covid 19 was designed to target certain ethnicities. caroline kennedy saying her personal concerns also led her to speak out. >> i watch his younger brothers and cousins follow him down the path of drug addiction. his basement, his garage, his dorm room were always the center of the action. where drugs were available. it was often a perverse scene of despair and violence. >> rfk jr. ignoring nbc questions about his cousin's letter. >> mr. kennedy, do you have any response to the letter released by caroline kennedy.

>> his niece, kerry kennedy meltzer, also expressing concerns, releasing private emails between the two from 2020 to 2022, in which her uncle repeats his skepticism and shares misinformation about the effectiveness of covid 19 shots. kennedy did not respond to the publication's request for comment, and nbc news has not obtained the emails. kennedy now says he's not planning to take away anyone's vaccines. trump has backed his nominee, and so far, republicans are in line. we don't agree on everything. but what. >> we. >> both agree. is that america has some. >> health problems. >> i think ryan's shot froze there. >> we're going to have full coverage of the confirmation hearing at the top of the next hour. nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, thank you very much. >> so, john, what talk about the rfk, the hearings, and also,

what are you hearing on the hill? what are you hearing in washington about republicans? how many may or may not actually vote no on that nomination? >> well, there are three nominations. we sort of coming to a head here hearings these next couple of days. it's robert f kennedy jr today. tomorrow also tomorrow we have tulsi gabbard as well as kash patel. what i've been told and reported yesterday that members of the trump inner circle, in fact, the president himself, are now growing increasingly skeptical that tulsi gabbard will be confirmed. they feel like that's the one in particular where there are votes shy, that she will not necessarily get across the finish line. there's even some legislative machinations being considered to try to help her along. kennedy is a bit of a wild card here. there are certainly been a number of people who have voiced real disapproval of his stances on vaccines. we know there was an outcry late last year, including from mitch mcconnell, about the polio vaccine, after reporting

that one of kennedy's top aides is someone who wants to withdraw the polio vaccine. pull the patent. there are other vaccines, of course, that also have come under scrutiny. so he's going to have a lot of his stance on those vaccines has come under scrutiny. he's going to have to do a lot of reassuring today. and i don't think the questions are going to come just from democrats. i'm told the trump team views he's a bit of a jump ball. whether he can get through or not. they feel more confident, though. joe mika about kash patel. but that's not until tomorrow. the focus today. kennedy. >> so as this plays out, president trump's efforts to freeze federal spending was paused by a federal judge. yesterday, nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander has the latest. >> this morning. >> president trump's sweeping spending freeze. >> is on hold after. >> a federal judge temporarily blocked the president's order to pause. >> trillions of. >> dollars in federal grants and. >> loans, with. >> a more. permanent decision. >> from the judge. >> expected next monday. >> the white house says the president's. mission is clear. >> as he is being a good steward

of your taxpayer dollars. >> the trump. administration says federal assistance that. >> goes directly to. >> individuals will. >> not be impacted. >> but exactly. >> what will be. >> is. >> still unknown. >> just to be. >> clear, since you guys haven't identified, let's. >> do it together. just for americans at home. >> medicaid. is that affected? >> i gave. >> you. >> a list of examples. social security, medicare, welfare benefits, medicaid, food stamps that will not be impacted by this federal pause. i can get you the full list after this briefing. >> the white house. never provided. >> that list. >> but a. >> new budget office memo obtained by nbc. >> news says mandatory. >> programs like medicaid and. >> snap food stamps. will continue without pause. but at first, the new order caused chaos, with. >> medicaid portals temporarily. >> down across the. >> country. >> the press secretary. >> later posting we have confirmed no. >> payments have been affected. >> democrats quickly condemned the president's actions. >> this decision is lawless. it's destructive. it's

dangerous. >> it's cruel. republicans are. >> largely standing. >> with president trump, including a georgia congressman who argued some low income children who receive free school. >> meals could. >> be working. instead. >> you're telling me that. >> kids who. stay at home, instead of going to work at burger king and mcdonald's during the summer, should stay at home and get their free lunch. >> and as part. >> of his. >> pledge to reduce. >> government spending, president trump is offering more than 2 million federal workers the option to quit now and to accept. >> a severance package. >> the white. house expects 5 to 10% of the workforce. >> to take the deal, which. >> it says could lead to $100 billion in annual savings. >> but the. >> largest federal. >> workers union. >> argues, quote, the trump administration's goal is to turn the federal government into a toxic environment where workers cannot stay, even if they. want to. >> so are we talking about six year olds, >> that. >> get the school lunches, congressman, saying you want six year olds to go work at mcdonald's or burger king.

>> six year olds, seven year olds to go work at burger king or mcdonald's. i mean, the suggestion is it shows you how out of touch with reality they are when they're trying to justify what is not justifiable. and just like when we had the issue earlier this week and one congresswoman, when approached about how things were going to affect people that were low income and poor, she says, well, many of them eat too much starch anyway. they're too fat. i mean, these are the kinds of things that we're hearing. people now try to justify the worst of what president trump is proposing. >> joining us now, we have former democratic governor of washington state, jay inslee, nbc news national affairs analyst and a partner and chief political columnist at pac. john heilemann, an award winning journalist and author. michele norris. she is an msnbc senior contributing editor. good to have you all on board this

morning. >> so yeah, governor, let us. you have better insights on this than most about a lot of these grants that are being frozen. what what is the real life impact for people, whether they're in washington state, kansas or florida? >> well, look, i don't i think it's simple to say that never in american history has there been so much damage to the fabric of our local communities and our states so quickly, by so few. one man has had a partial government shutdown. is what this is. 30% of our state budget comes from the federal government. so this morning, if you're if you're a young woman, you got beat up by your boyfriend. you want to go into a domestic violence shelter. those funds are all in jeopardy at the moment. if you're a veteran and you're receiving some food assistance from a. from a. meals on wheels program, that program

is in jeopardy. and one of the things that has not been discussed much in this dialog is our business community is being damaged by these shutdowns. look, we got these clean energy companies that are rocking it, putting thousands of people to work. but because donald trump has this paranoid delusion that we should remain addicted to his fossil fuel oil and gas buddies, that's what he wants to do, is make sure that money keeps flowing into those corporate pockets and cutting off the funding that's going on to these new companies that are putting so many people to work. so this attack on a clean energy economy that can give us more efficient, lesser cost energy is really pathetic. it's hugely, hugely damaging. so. >> john, as we sort through all the incoming over the past week, week and a half, obviously we're seeing, for instance, yesterday reports that medicaid, the portal was shut down. that changed that, that all of these,

these foreign grants were going to be shut down. marco rubio backed off on, on, on, on a lot of that. now we have these funding freezes being slowed down in the courts. i'm wondering your thoughts and whether the people that suggested this be implemented thought that most of these would face court challenges. but again, we're more interested in in the action in in flooding the zone in overwhelming democrats on the hill. well. >> joe, i think one of the things. >> that's really clear. >> over the course. >> of this last. >> week is the extent. >> to which. >> not just project 2025, but the totality of this period of time, of the four years leading to the interregnum, so to speak, between trump 1.0 and trump 2.0 was spent doing careful, assiduous strategic planning for what was going to happen here in these early days of the trump

administration by people who, whatever else you want to say about them, are not dumb. and i think the anticipation of court challenges, of administrative challenges, of challenges on the front of execution and some of the pushback they've gotten, which hasn't really been that much politically so far. all of that, i think, was anticipated. and to your point, i think, you know, people used to say during the first trump administration that the cruelty was the point. i think now we understand that the cruelty and the chaos are both the points and that from the standpoint of the people around trump who are enacting this agenda, it's a it's a heads they win, tails they tails you lose operation here. right? they do these radical things. they make these radical proposals. some of them survive. that's a win. and if they don't survive, they've achieved the other goal that they have, which is to destabilize people's, destabilize the politics, to move the overton window, make people put people on their back foot politically and just keep

and keep creating this kind of atmosphere of chaos, which only serves trump's interests because when they come back with amended versions of some of these policies, they will be better than the initial proposals, but they will still be bad. or from the standpoint of their opponents, they will still be cutbacks. they'll still be shifts, as i say to the overton window, where things that had previously been unthinkable will now not only be thinkable, but will have been achieved. >> there's no question, john, as i wrote earlier this week, that that's the idea is this of confusing democrats and dispiriting democrats they won't know where to focus on. we did see yesterday, michele, some coalescing around this idea of these cuts, this freeze that that really angered a lot of democratic lawmakers. some of the really have been biding their time, but they found their voice on this particular issue. and that's because it impacts real people across this country, red states and blue states alike. and it even just a brief pause, the threat of a pause upended so many lives. >> and it's important. >> to.

>> remember that. >> children are hungry. >> and kentucky and tennessee and mississippi. >> to. >> you know. >> women who are seeking. >> shelter in all of those states, too. >> i'm keeping. >> an eye on the. governors of these states, because. >> it's. >> easier for donald trump. >> to put. >> pressure on. >> house and senate. >> members in the republican party. >> i think it may. >> be harder. >> for him to do that. >> for some of these governors. >> who are facing the same kind of chaos. >> and whether. >> they're going to quietly push back or try to. figure out. >> how. >> to deliver the services that their constituents. >> rely on, because they have to deliver. that and. they have to they will face. >> reelection. >> and it. >> will be very hard. >> for them to justify. >> and i think that these cuts that we've seen. >> these this. >> pause that we've seen, yeah, no, no question there. and i think there's always that moment where we look at trump voters when, when what they voted for and they voted for donald trump comes to impact their own lives. and that might be happening later today or in the next days ahead. if robert f kennedy jr is confirmed, i know you're going to be following the hearings here because he has proposed in the past, even if he's trying to moderate some of his views now, what would be totally reshaping,

you know, the health system of the of the united states and potentially taking things away from those very families, things that they want to keep. >> well. >> it's interesting. >> you and i. >> both know people who have prepared folks for these senate hearings, and this must have been a nightmare for that team, because he. >> has such. >> a long record. >> of things that he said. >> on the record. that are questionable, that some would even. >> say. >> are crazy. >> questioning vaccine efficacy. >> saying that people. >> of color. >> black people in particular. should be on a different vaccine schedule. because they allegedly. >> are more. >> immune to vaccines. he is going to have a. >> very difficult time. >> justifying some of. >> the things he said. we heard him earlier say. >> that he. believes in. >> vaccinating his. >> own. >> children. >> but he's on the record. >> saying that he wishes he could go back and do it over again. and if he would, if he did, he wouldn't do it again. let's think. >> about the. >> age of many of the people who are going to be in that room with him. >> many of. >> them are old enough to. remember polio. >> not in the abstract. >> but remember classmates who had polio. they understand their

outbreaks. >> right now in this country of. >> of diseases that we are trying to get under control. >> the hospitals. in this. >> city in. >> washington. >> d.c. have flu. you have people with the. >> flu who. >> are actually. >> hospitalized right now. >> so when we talk about vaccines. >> the focus has been. >> primarily on. >> childhood vaccines. in a country where people are aging rapidly, we are in the peak 65 period in this country as baby. >> boomers march. >> in past middle. >> age and into their senior. >> years, we. >> also have to. >> think about the vaccination schedule for older people who are particularly vulnerable to the flu, to pneumonia, to shingles. when, you know chickenpox pox comes roaring back later in life in the form of shingles. and i think that that's something that is very real, you know, for the people in that. >> room. >> in that hearing room who will be questioning him. >> and it's so interesting politically, you know, i think we've seen some really stark things in these. first, i don't know how many days of the administration, whether it's removing security detail from people that donald trump doesn't

like. one of pete hegseth s first actions in office was retribution. i think it was something that he pledged was not his goal to these funding freezes. it seems to me, joe, that democrats need to make sure credit goes to where credit is due. and it is very difficult to find a way to blame this all on joe biden. >> well. >> no. >> they might try. >> it, i mean, so, governor, we can expect again the incoming to continue for the next several weeks, maybe the next several months. i'm curious though, just 30,000 foot view of the political landscape. it's important, of course, to look at the election results and realize, yeah, it was one and a half points nationally and the swing states. were pretty tight.

the upper midwest. that said, in in a lot of america voters broke right. and they broke right pretty significantly across a lot of demographic groups. you know, from silicon valley to the rio grande valley. so what what is the 30,000 foot look down over what went wrong with the democratic party, how they lost middle america and what they need to do moving forward? >> well, listen, if there's a bright, shiny bauble of hope here, it's that recognition that the days of grieving of the democratic party are over. i'm officially, by executive order declaring those days of depression and passivity and sort of play footsie with donald trump. those days are over. we're not going to do that anymore. and if you're listening to this show and you're understanding the outrages that are going on, this is the day

for you to, you know, call league of conservation voters and give them a hand or planned parenthood or some other entity and call a republican congress and give them holy hell for what they're doing here. this is not a moment to be in our cups anymore, feeling sorry for ourselves. this is a very narrowly decided election. we democrats are different than donald trump. we respect the voters and recognize it and didn't stage an insurgency. but now is the time to get up there on our hind legs and confront this guy every single place we can. and frankly, my party has been just a little bit too passive and quiet in this regard. i'm sensing we've woken up in the last 24 hours. you hear the voices of senator patty murray, who's fighting this. you're seeing our attorney general. that's the first in the nation to get an injunction against this effort to take away birthright citizenship, which is clearly unconstitutional. i think you're seeing an awakening of a sleeping giant here, and we've got to keep that giant active. so that's how i look at it from 30,000ft. >> i think the governor is

absolutely right. i think what i'm hearing all over the country, on the ground, is people want to know what the democratic party is going to stand for. they're going to choose the chairman on saturday or sunday, february 1st. and what is the game plan if you can't duck this? they have declared war on people with with the freeze yesterday, with them going after di, what they're going after really an assault on health care. we're nominating robert f kennedy jr. i mean, does somebody have to slap you in the face before you realize that they are really wanting to fight? you fight back. and i think that we've got to wake up our base democrats in order to give them something to rally around. you can't expect the masses to create something themselves if you don't have the leadership that's willing to go in and fight and engage this. and i appreciate the governor's executive order. i hope we all follow it. >> yes, absolutely. former democratic governor of

washington state, jay inslee, thank you as well for being on. and msnbc senior contributor, contributing editor michele norris, thank you for being on as well. and coming up, as we've been discussing the first confirmation hearing for robert f kennedy jr, president trump's nominee to lead the department of health and human services, begins at the top of the hour. he is expected to face sharp questions when he goes before a senate committee for the first time. msnbc will bring you those hearings live. plus, investors are awaiting the federal reserve's interest rate decision as they gather for the first time during the new trump administration. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us next on what wall street is expecting. you're watching morning joe. >> that you still want me? well, that's as may be, but you gotta stand trial. we will. >> evil and doug. >> you'll be back.

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if peta has their way, punxsutawney phil is going to be out of a job because peta wants to replace him with a weather reveal cake. >> that is. >> crazy. that's insane. who would believe. >> that a cake could. >> predict the weather? >> cake is good for only two. >> things being delicious and granting wishes on your birthday. peta says cake would mimic that of a sex reveal for a baby with blue, meaning six more weeks of winter and pink indicating an early spring. okay, i guess that would work. personally, i did all my gender reveals using a groundhog. >> all right, time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning as we await, of course, the confirmation hearing that's going to begin at 10 a.m. eastern time for robert f kennedy jr. the conversation we just had. here's a bit of a related story. kansas is dealing with one of the largest tuberculosis outbreaks in the state in the last 75 years.

state health officials say it is unclear what caused the outbreak. as of last friday, 67 people were being treated for active cases. an additional 79 latent cases have also been confirmed. the disease, which is curable, spreads through the air when infected people cough, sneeze or spit without treatment, which usually involves antibiotics. tuberculosis can be fatal. the union membership in the u.s. fell last year to a new record low, according to the labor department, 9.9% of americans were represented by unions in 2024, down slightly from 10% in 2023. it's the third straight year union membership hit an all time low. just over 14 million u.s. workers are members of unions in a total workforce of 145 million, and u.s. consumer confidence fell for the second

consecutive month in january. the consumer confidence index measures both americans assessment of current economic conditions and their outlook for the next six months, according to the wall street journal. the loss of confidence reflects the retreating optimism of both current and future conditions at the start of president trump's second term, and expectations that inflation will rise again. >> let's, let's let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. andrew, a couple of things with that consumer. consumer confidence is down. and again, i'm operating on this theory. i'm sure i'm wrong on this theory that we may be in sort of the 2005, 2006, 2000 stage of these bubbles that are growing. and so i just while i was hearing that consumer confidence was down, i did a quick search on what personal savings rates were, because i remember that when the when the bus came, the us was was low, you know, one, two, 3% while

germany, china, other countries at 10%. i just checked it's about four 4% right now, 4.4%, down from an average of about 8%. i just i just don't know. things don't seem to be going in a good direction right now. and i'm wondering how the fed is looking at this as we have the possibility of the economy overheating. i think the fed is not doing anything right now. i think what you're going to see. >> later today is nothing. >> we're not we're not raising rates. we're not lowering. >> rates because i think there's an. >> anxiety that rates. >> are about to actually pop the other way. and i'm. sorry that inflation is going to is going to continue to increase. >> and so that means mortgage rates are going to remain stubbornly high. stubbornly high. >> so that that piece of the puzzle. doesn't seem like it's going to shift. it also means credit card rates. >> will remain high. >> and so if you believe and this is where the fed's very interesting position, the federal reserve likes to look at data and make their decisions based on data. >> the problem is. >> that means that they're always backward looking. they're always 2 or 3 months late, if

you will. they don't know. do you say to yourself today, given what president trump says he's going to do, whether it's on immigration, whether it's on tariffs, all of those things are inflationary. we've been talking about how inflationary those things are going to be forever. >> right. >> do you try to get ahead of that and say, okay, well. >> we. >> know inflation is coming. let's try to deal with it now. or do you say we don't really know. is this a negotiation. >> is this something else. >> what's he really doing. >> but but. >> and that is a bit of the problem for jay powell today. >> is it donald trump though all about heating up the economy, stoking the economy. yes. >> all that's. >> inflationary right i know it is. that's what i'm that's what i'm saying. you know jay powell may feel the pressure to bring interest rates down. but donald trump wants to stoke. so i actually think that jay powell is going to stand pat. >> and he's not going to be influenced by this president. i genuinely think that he is in the i don't want to say in the resistance camp, but he believes deeply in the independence of the fed, and i do not think he wants to look like he is being pushed around. i think actually,

the more interesting thing that you might start to see is, you know, the president has been jawboning jay powell. he started jawboning last week in davos. the big the big banks. he made these comments about bank of america. he name checked jamie dimon. >> by the way what does that mean when he went. >> straight to their faces. >> when he said you need to give conservatives more loan loans. i thought a lot of really rich conservatives not only supportive. >> of bank of america. yes there is. there has been an argument by some conservatives, especially in crypto land, that they have been, quote, debanked by the banking system. the banks will tell you that the regulators don't allow them to do business with what are called risky credits. so if you're a risky credit, you don't. >> will be always been skeptical of crypto for a very long time. >> correct. so, so the crypto world thinks that the banks are unfair to them. interestingly, if you read. melania trump's book, she talks about how she was debunked or at least not allowed to get a bank account.

she doesn't say which bank she and barron trump were not allowed to get a bank account somewhere. i don't know if that's bank of america or somewhere else or what led to that. i would also tell you there was a period of time before president trump was ever the president, where most banks on wall street did not want to do business with the trump family or with president trump himself, because, again, not because of his politics, but because they didn't think he was a good credit, because he would end up getting into lawsuits with banks going into bankruptcy and other things to effectively avoid having to pay his debts. so i'm not really sure where that whole piece of it goes, but the, the interesting jawboning piece of this is to the extent that trump is going after interest rates, it may be that he starts pressing on banks themselves to lower their rates. >> their interest rates. >> it may be that he. >> can't can't control the fed, but he can't control the fed. >> but we're going to try by there's the cfpb, which maybe he tells the cfpb. you're going to put caps on what credit card companies can charge you by the way interestingly that's something the democrats have

wanted. so it's a very interesting dynamic to watch all this play out. >> so. >> let let's ask a couple of days later after the meltdown, the ai meltdown on on on wall street. nvidia where are we today. what more do we know? well. >> i think we. >> know that. >> these this deep state model was built in some ways by copying or what they're now calling distilling. the phrase is distillation by distilling models like openai. so these big models that we spent a fortune on, china effectively copied it, by the way. >> right. >> some people are saying there's some karma here because the big openai models copied all of the copyrighted information that all of the content creators in the world created first. so everybody's copying each other. >> and by the way. >> i mean every. >> every artist, screenwriter. yes. paul mccartney, everybody talking about the dangers of ai. right. ripping them off. >> this is right. so, so in the ai world, you're distilling the model. in our content world, you're stealing the content,

right? that's basically what's happening here. you know, we're going to hear from microsoft after the bell today because they have their earnings. i think the big question is, are they going to still be pressing ahead and spending $80 billion this year on infrastructure? that is the question. if they say yes then you don't need to worry about nvidia for example, which of course fell precipitously because people said maybe it can be done more efficiently if everyone's going to continue their big infrastructure spending, it's not a problem. and that's but i don't think we know the answer. i think at some level it has to have crept back a little bit of the spending ambitions of companies because they say this can be done more efficiently than it's currently. >> being done. all right. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. john heilemann, we're talking about rfk jr today. obviously, tulsi gabbard, kash patel three of donald trump's most controversial nominees up this week. what are you hearing on the hill? >> well. >> first of all, i know you guys have been talking some about

about rupert murdoch and the and the opposition in the post and the and the wall street journal, the bobby. kennedy jr nomination. i that quote that keeps running in my mind there, joe, is the possibly apocryphal quote from stalin about the pope. you know, how many divisions does the pope have? and the question being kind of, how many votes do the murdochs have in in the us senate? i they answer the question kind of answers itself. they have none. and i don't think that that that the opposition of even the most conservative. editorial pages means very much to donald trump. certainly. and i don't think it means very much to senate republicans. i do have this gathering sense that kind of aligns with, with, with lemire's reporting, which is that that tulsi gabbard is in real trouble on, in the senate and that there's a gathering sense that she may, as they say in the mob, get got. i don't i have to say the bobby kennedy hearing is going to be eventful at this at

this hour, other than mitch mcconnell, who i don't think has has yet publicly stated his opposition to rfk jr. but it's just almost unfathomable to me that someone who suffered polio as a child. and given his long standing advocacy for vaccines, it's hard for me to imagine that mitch mcconnell is going to vote for rfk jr. but i don't know of any other senate republican who who is not only publicly or even but but even privately suggesting that they are going to be against rfk jr. now, that could change in the course of the hearing. but if you if you had to take odds right now, i think that the hearing today will be will be entertaining, probably disturbing on some levels, but also that bobby kennedy is going to get through and so is kash patel. but the tulsi gabbard is really hanging by a thread right now. >> all right. and also just word from washington as well out of the judiciary committee. pam, bonnie, pam bondi for attorney general was just voted out of the committee along party lines, moves on to the full senate. but we'll be, of course, covering

live the hearing for rfk jr, which starts in just about 20 minutes. john heilemann, thank you very much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. and coming up, a new book examines the fascinating account of the 1963 civil rights protests in birmingham, alabama, and how those ten weeks changed the future of america. the author joins us next with that story. morning joe will be right back. morning joe will be right back. >> what's hi, susan! honey? yeah? i respect that, but that cough looks pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin, the only brand with true source certified honey. said i was an ambassador. do i get a discount? the owner called me and said, would you like to be an ambassador for skechers? and i said, yes, try

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it. won't happen again? you've obviously made a decision to resign. are there any. >> lessons that can be learned. >> as you're talking to members of your congregation, what do you tell them about how to stand up for their own moral beliefs, but still find grace. >> in this moment? >> and i came. >> down here today just to. >> thank each and every one of you. >> just like. >> floyd has done. >> for your. >> tremendous inspiration. i don't think you. >> realize down here in birmingham. >> what you. >> mean to. us up there in new york. >> and i don't think that. >> white americans. >> understand what birmingham means. >> to. >> all of. >> us throughout this country. and i think the conscience of america. >> is beginning to awaken. i think the first steps. >> that were made here. >> by the birmingham business and.

>> the doctor, king. >> and the other leaders. >> down here. >> is an indication that perhaps the conscience of birmingham is beginning. >> to awaken. >> yes. the only thing that we are demanding is that. >> we. >> be allowed to move ahead, just like any other american citizen. >> that was jackie robinson in birmingham, alabama, in may of 1963. robinson's visit spoke to the national attention that was being paid to birmingham in the spring of that year, following the arrest of the reverend doctor martin luther king jr and the attack on peaceful protesters, some children by bull connor's police force, that seminal period in american history is memorialized in the new book entitled you have to be prepared to die before you can live ten weeks in birmingham. that changed america, and the book's author, paul kicks, joins us now. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. this book is focused on project c. tell us exactly what project

c is and what are some of the new revelations about it that you were able to put in this book? >> sure. >> so project c, otherwise. >> known as project confrontation. >> it's a. period of. >> time in america. >> where the. >> southern christian leadership. >> conference, doctor king's organization. >> they go down to birmingham and they choose it because it is the. >> most violent, the most. >> racist, the most. segregated city. >> in america. >> just to give. >> you. >> for instance, birmingham. cops raped black women. >> in. >> their patrol cars. the klan. castrated a black. >> man. >> as a way to intimidate king and his co-leader of. >> that campaign, fred. >> shuttlesworth, from staging this protest in birmingham. edward r murrow of cbs. he goes down. >> to birmingham. just prior. >> to the sclc's arrival, and he says to his producer when he leaves town, i. >> have. >> not seen. any place. >> like this since nazi. >> germany. >> so we need to put. ourselves

in that mind that that. >> was. >> birmingham. alabama in 1963. >> and what. >> the sclc. >> did with project. >> c is they said. >> we will either break segregation or we will. >> be broken by it. >> the sclc was broke. >> at. >> that time. i mean. >> like they. >> had less. >> than. $500 to their name. >> the sclc. >> really literally feared for their lives. king issued. >> a series. >> of mock eulogies to all. >> the people who would be protesting. >> there, because they literally. >> thought they. >> were going to die. >> and they thought that if they could try. to basically turn their bodies. into vessels of suffering was one of the phrases they. >> kept using. >> if they could kind of almost. >> turn their bodies into metaphors of the black experience itself as it. >> existed up. >> until that point, then perhaps they could get to the conscience of white america, and. >> in particular the. >> kennedy brothers. >> who governed america. and if. >> they could do that, then perhaps. at long last there could be some. >> sort. >> of civil rights legislation. >> paul, i read your book with some fascination as we're dealing with civil rights issues

today, and there's nothing comparable in terms of the sacrifice. wyatt walker, who helped me start national action network, was one of the figures there. and fred shuttlesworth, who i knew i was too young to know. doctor king, they said they selected birmingham because they knew bull connor would come with the kind of brutality that would give the whole world the, the, the, the scenes and graphics of how brutal segregation was. in fact, bull connor was getting ready to be out of office, so they needed to go in and talk about how the strategy was to really select it, because they, as the title of your book implies, they were willing to put it all on the line. otherwise they felt the movement was going to die. they needed this confrontation. >> you're absolutely right. they felt the movement was going to die, and that's perhaps the best place to start. a lot of people think the civil rights movement exists on some sort of continuum of progress. that was not at all the case in the.

>> spring of 1963. yes, there was the montgomery bus boycott. and that. >> success there via. >> the supreme court, saying that the bus lines could be desegregated. >> but basically, even in montgomery. come 1963. >> the busses had basically resegregated. and so every single measure. >> of this, there. >> was basically no success in the civil. rights movement. and wyatt, tee walker. >> and others, they, they, they said, let, let. >> us go. >> down to. >> the very site. of terror, white. >> terror, you. >> know, they called it domestic terrorism and let us angry every. terrible person there. because if we can do that, then perhaps we can get to the. conscience of the rest of america and begin to. really change it. and i think that, you know, 60 plus years after the fact. >> this is a deeply, deeply. >> personal story. >> for me. >> because. the my i'm white, my wife is black, our three.

>> kids are black. >> sandy and i get married in a former jim crow state like texas. and when you think if we just put this on a continuum of history for a moment, if we could. >> 1863 the. >> emancipation proclamation passes, but for 100 years there is no progress. and some people, when i was out on book tours, been out. >> on book tours, they've. >> talked about, oh, surely that would have happened. are we sure of that? right? nothing changed across 100 years. birmingham happens. the kennedy brothers sponsor a legislation that becomes the civil rights act of 64, then the voting rights act of 65. it leads to king's martyrdom in 68. but i would argue, really, it's a rebirth of his nation, maybe the first birth of his nation, because from that you see the rise of the black middle and upper class in the 20th century. you see the you see the presidency of barack obama. but again, this is felt on a deeply, deeply granular level for people like me, right, who have no experience with birmingham. right. my wife and i are able today to raise our

three kids on a street where no one harasses us for who we are. so birmingham, alabama, in 1963 literally allows me to live my life today. and that's why this book is really like not only my story, but the story that i want my kids to know. i dedicated this book to them so that they could, in some sense, be guided in their own lives by the courage that that those activists showed. in 1963. >> the new book entitled you have to be prepared to die before you can begin to live ten weeks in birmingham. that changed america. it's on sale now. you can read an excerpt on our website, msnbc.com. author paul kicks. thank you very much for sharing it with us. we appreciate it. and coming up, we are moments away from robert f kennedy's confirmation hearing with the senate finance committee. we're back in one minute with former obama white house health policy adviser doctor zeke emanuel ahead of the

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>> try the crossover. >> bra. >> today at honey love.com. >> welcome back. live pictures there. just moments from now. robert f kennedy jr. president trump's nominee to be the next secretary of health and human services will walk into this hearing room to appear before the senate finance committee for his first of two confirmation hearings. joining us now, former obama white house adviser for health policy. doctor zeke emanuel. he is also vice provost for global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania. i guess, zeke, the first question i have for you is, what do you what are you going to be looking for in the hearing today? >> well. >> i'm. >> going to be looking for what he says on vaccines.

>> robert f. kennedy jr. >> has. >> been very. >> much against vaccines. >> he's trying to move to the center. >> saying he's not really against. >> them, but. >> he has. >> been quite negative. >> and the. >> question is, what. >> are the promises. >> he's. >> going to make. about vaccines? >> because the health department of health. >> and human. >> services has. >> enormous power. i'm also going to be. >> looking for what. >> else he. >> says about. >> other things chronic. >> illness. >> payment to doctors. >> and many other things. >> that he's. responsible for. the fda's approval processes. the cdc. and monitoring infectious diseases. >> we just. >> had. >> another serious report on influenza. >> and a new strain of. influenza detected in animals. >> so he. >> has an enormous. >> range of things. >> i think vaccines. >> are clearly important, but they better not be the only. >> thing we hear about. >> so, doctor, let's talk about another important topic, the idea that robert kennedy jr. if he were to have this position, has said they would pause

federally funded medical research, that is, i know, raised real alarms with some in the medical community. tell us what you think that would be. what would be the implications? >> first of. >> all, every university. >> i know is. >> in a crisis mode. >> now because they don't know what's. >> going. >> to happen. >> for the funding. let's remember, if we want. >> to. >> make america. >> great. >> we. >> have to invest in. >> our leading organizations. >> those include. biomedical research. >> and. >> biotechnology universities. >> quantum computing and. >> pausing research. >> and creating lots. >> of uncertainty. >> is not. >> a way to ensure. >> that we maintain. >> our world lead. >> in biomedical research. >> curing diseases. >> like we did. >> with car-t. therapy for cancers, being able. >> to develop new. >> drugs like we've done. with lilly and. >> and their various. medications against obesity. >> we need to maintain our lead. >> and pausing funding for research is. >> not the way to maintain. our lead.

>> in the world. >> and this is a very. >> competitive area. >> so i hope. >> we. >> get some clarity. >> on that issue. >> and what. >> his funding priorities are going to be. >> there's lots of things we. >> need to pursue. >> in america. >> you know, all alzheimer's and. >> a lot of neurological. diseases that. >> still go uncured. >> our real top priorities. >> i would think. yeah, we're getting a live look now, just minutes ahead of the hearing. we just saw a moment ago of robert f kennedy jr walking through the hallways of the senate hand in hand. we should note with his wife, cheryl hines, we expect them to enter the chamber in just a moment. of course, we'll have complete live coverage of this once it gets underway. let's talk also just about the idea. there's been, you know, many have charged in recent years, the republican party has turned against science, you know, in a number of realms. what would a conference with republican senators cast their vote and vote yes and put robert f kennedy jr in this post as we see him now enter the room. what does that say? bigger picture against just where the nation

stands right now in relation to medicine and science. >> as you're right. >> nih and. >> funding, biomedical. >> research and. >> cancer therapies and. >> all sorts of other therapies. >> has been a. >> bipartisan issue. >> for since the 1940s. and when the nih. >> really got. >> a shock of. >> money to. >> begin expanding. >> and it's frayed. >> because of covid. >> and i think that's. >> a huge mistake. there's so much. >> that there's bipartisan. >> agreement on. so much that americans. >> want done. >> with biomedical research. and we. still have a lot. >> of illnesses that need. >> to be. >> conquered in. >> this country. >> and i. >> think it will be a. >> serious problem if. republicans communicate that they're really. >> skeptical about. >> biomedical research. >> and our. >> biotechnology industries, which are world leading, and it's going to be hard to maintain that lead if we don't have good academic research. the industry. and academia. >> work together. >> to produce. >> breakthroughs. and we can't

let. >> that relationship. >> go to pot and still be. >> great in this field. >> all right. doctor zeke emanuel, thank you very much. they are about to gavel in as the hearing is about to begin. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the live coverage of robert f kennedy jr. s confirmation hearing right now. >> joining us. it is ten eastern. >> 7 a.m. pacific. i'm ana. >> cabrera reporting. >> from new york. and we're looking live right. >> now on. >> capitol hill where one of. president trump's most controversial nominees. >> robert f kennedy jr, is about to. >> go before. >> the senate finance committee. >> for his long awaited. confirmation hearing. trump's pick for secretary of health and human services has espoused a variety of unorthodox views on everything. >> from vaccines. >> to. >> fluoride in water to raw. >> milk. >> not to mention. >> a previous support of abortion rights. that puts him at odds with most. >> republicans on that very. >> panel. >> and