work covering the white house, and it was eye opening. when you actually see up close, right, how complicated things are, how much people have to work, i'm sure for you on the hill, it was it's a different experience when you're there than you're when you think you know a lot about it from afar. what does it mean to have people come in in areas where they may be willing to disrupt and maybe even they've had conversations about it, as rfk jr certainly has about things like vaccines, written books about it, but not understand necessarily how government works. what's what's that mean? >> well, chris, i honestly think that a lot of american voters actually wanted change. >> they wanted a disruption. and i think that they acknowledge that sometimes. >> that won't necessarily. >> have the same. >> longevity of career public service. and that's what they want. >> is they. actually want the change. >> and i think there's no doubt that rfk.

>> brought in. >> a big. >> constituency to. >> donald trump's campaign, particularly. >> with the maha movement. and suburban moms who i. >> think would have. >> been maybe reluctant otherwise. >> to support. >> president trump. >> but i think there's ways to address those issues. >> without putting somebody in. >> charge of a cabinet post. >> who has had. >> so many. >> positions that are anti-science and so many positions that i think are counter to what republicans have stood for. for generations. >> and so. >> i'm sympathetic. >> to the notion. >> of here's a. >> constituency that came in politically. >> that helped us. i'm not sure that rfk. >> is the one. >> that best addresses that, though. >> i don't think there's any doubt, doctor, that covid and the questions that came up around it from the administration at the time, the trump administration, from people like rfk jr, made people distrust the information they were getting about health anyway. and one of the most common questions i get is, how do i know where to go to find out what's really going on or

what the truth is. what do you. let's assume that the people who are reporting are right, and rfk jr becomes the hhs secretary. what do you say to people who say, well, where do i go to find out real information, the truth? >> so that's actually one of the really complicated things at this moment, because not only is rfk. proven to be. not trustworthy, being really an arbiter of misinformation during the. covid vaccine. >> i mean, most. >> of. >> his social. >> media platforms were. >> taken down. >> during covid because. >> he spread. >> so much misinformation. it's that the communications platforms for. >> hhs, like cdc, nih, a lot of the data that we doctors. >> use primarily to even create our own. >> opinions and verify. >> the. >> stuff coming out. >> of hhs. >> we don't. >> have access to. >> right now, either. right. >> the morbidity. >> and mortality weekly. report from. >> the. >> cdc is not. currently being published. so if. >> rfk is. >> the only. >> source of information. >> for the american public. >> and american doctors. >> can't get other. >> information from the primary. >> researchers at the cdc, the nih, the fda. >> what is the american.

>> public to believe? i don't know, it's a very, very scary time. >> when. >> we don't know who to. >> believe and we don't even. >> have sources of. >> information that. >> we can get, you. >> know, accurate information. >> from those primary sources. >> brandon, you spent a lot of time looking at that, like accurate sources. where do we go? i'm going to ask you the same question. >> i don't know, i mean, if it's hhs, if you currently look at chd, his his organization. >> that he. >> just left. look at their website. it is full of false studies of debunked just things that. >> look false. >> studies like andrew wakefield. right. that the notorious mmr vaccine causes autism in children. it was it was retracted from the lancet. we know it is bunk on chd's website and out of robert kennedy's lips. i just saw a podcast. he claims that wakefield is a hero, that his research is good, he has asked for, and he has a whole book called vaxxed unvaxxed let the science speak, where he heralds and holds up really bad research stuff that's been retracted.

>> in some. >> cases twice the same thing retracted from two different journals. he disregards research that doesn't show his fixed view on vaccines. and so i can only if past is prolog. i can only expect that the government websites that we once relied on will now be full of debunked science. if he's confirmed, that's very scary and i don't know where you go for good information anymore. >> so mark, big picture. we don't know if all of kennedy's supporters are backing him because donald trump believes in him or wants them to, or maybe they actually believe some of what rfk is saying, even though, as brandi just pointed out, as doctor kass just pointed out, it's been debunked. but i wonder, at the end of the day if that matters? is the net effect the same no matter what? >> chris. >> it seems like so little. >> of this. >> actual confirmation vote is truly. on on policy. >> as a. >> as i said. >> a minute ago, in your. >> first question, he his

confirmation. >> would be carried on the. >> back of republicans. >> and this is a guy who is throughout his entire life has championed and fought for radical left causes, whether or not it's eradicating. fossil fuels or calling nra a. >> terror. >> group or, you know, coming up with different theories. >> on covid or. advancing a pro-abortion. >> policy his entire life. and so. >> this isn't it's not about the. >> policy anymore. >> this is about sheer politics. and it's about. >> you know, donald trump showing his dominance over senate. republicans in this particular nomination. i feel like, you know, there's been a long train of, in many. >> cases. >> great nominees he's. >> put forward. but we're sort of at the caboose. >> now. >> which has become a. >> clown car. >> with rfk and tulsi gabbard that. >> i think really shows. >> his influence over republicans in the senate. >> let me ask you really quickly, sue, to sort of close this all out. we did see one thing today, and we talked about this when we first came in that the omb memo, at least for now, has been taken down. the funding

that people were worried about going away, at least for many of these programs, appears that it's going to be starting up again. having said that, what are you watching for to show you, as a keen observer of these things, that the will of the american people that some push back publicly or privately from the republican party, may have some impact? well. >> i think with the letter, i. >> don't know. i mean, it just happened, but i would imagine that they felt that they couldn't legally win that. but i think now what i'm going to be watching for across all these departments, including health and human services, is what programs, you know, they wanted a spreadsheet with programs that that they could see were getting funded to see whether or not they fit into president trump's agenda. and i think now they're going to just be going through they're going to be collecting those spreadsheets. what actually does get cut. and it may not be on mass suspended, but there's going to be big cuts coming both programs and through staffing. and that's something that we're going to be keeping a

close eye on. >> marc short, sue craig, doctor derek haas, brandy zadrozny an important, much needed conversation. thank you all. and still ahead, we'll get back to that. breaking news. the trump administration playing cleanup after the panic over a memo putting a freeze on federal loans and grants. we'll go to loans and grants. we'll go to the white house liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. oh! right in the temporal lobe! beat it, punks! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ no matter what kind of teeth you gotta brush, oral-b electric cleans better with one simple touch. oral-b's dentist inspired round brush head hugs em, cleans em, and gets in between em, for 100% cleaner teeth. your perfect clean starts with oral-b. >> hi. >> so no one knows what.

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care with what they're inheriting. >> the fallout. >> from meta ceo mark zuckerberg's decision to end fact checking. >> what's your. >> message to concerned voters about where the country may be headed after the biden administration leaves? actually behind closed doors? they're still asking what the hell happened? >> we want to get. back to our breaking news and the whiplash over the white house. we think rescinding a memo that put a freeze on federal loans and grants, that's what a two sentence statement said. but now, white house press secretary caroline leavitt posted the following message. quote, this is not a rescission of the federal funding freeze. it is simply a rescission of the omb memo. why? to end any confusion created by the court's injunction, the president's ios

on federal funding, meaning executive orders on federal funding, remain in full force and effect and will be rigorously implemented. let's bring in nbc news senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell. also joining me, charlie dent, a former seven term republican congressman from pennsylvania. i think the point of this was to clear up any confusion. i'm not sure that people won't be more confused. help us understand what's going on, kelly. >> well, we're taking people into what would be a part of our reporting process, chris, as you understand so well, we normally wouldn't be talking about these issues until we. had firmer answers, but we're sort of in the flow of how it is coming out. what the white house is doing is taking a specific memo off the table. that is the one that triggered all the questions in state houses and nonprofits and all kinds of agencies. >> around the country. they are. >> removing that. they say the

reason they're doing it is because there was an injunction. a court put a pause on. >> it for. >> a period of days. so they are trying to erase that moment. their intention. >> in. >> a broader sense. >> they say. >> is to, in fact, trim, freeze and make changes in how federal money goes. >> to states. >> exactly what sort of legal instruments will be used to do that? >> they would provide. >> a range of ideas. they say some of the president's executive orders speak to these issues. >> he's had a. >> flurry of them. certainly the congressman can talk about the fact that it is congress. that decides appropriations. and there are legal questions around all of this about how much discretion an administration has to move around money. >> or to change it. >> the big punch of this is that the trump administration wants there to be a very clear message that they expect the money used at these agencies and in these programs reflects donald trump's vision of how government should work. that may or may not play

out. in a. practical way, but there is certainly already confusion. perhaps you could argue a chilling effect about how agencies, programs and states have to deal with all of this. so in the confusion, they are trying to send a message that they want to make certain that people adhere to what president trump has announced for various programs and plans. and so we've got more work to do to understand it. >> to have. >> them explain it, and also to see how it plays out in the real world. so the bottom line is the confusion sent by one memo that's been removed. the questions about what happens more broadly, those. are active and ongoing. chris. >> so we see. >> this is actually a. >> live picture of president trump who is walking to the podium. he's going to sign the first bill of his new term. and that is the lake and riley act. it's a strict immigration detention measure that is named for a woman who was murdered by an illegal immigrant that gives new powers to states attorneys

general, allows them to sue. we're going to listen in to hear what the president has to say. and perhaps if he has any comment on this confusion. but let me go to charlie dent. as somebody who has worked inside government, is it clear to you what's going on in terms of this omb memorandum? what seemed to be in fact, it said in this statement from the executive office of management and budget, i'm going to read it. omb memorandum m 2513 is rescinded. do we know exactly what this means in your mind? >> well, this whole episode reminds me of the. >> of the. >> travel ban that was announced nearly eight years ago to this day, when it. >> was. >> this. >> this order. >> was poorly conceived. >> it was terribly executed. >> it was. >> ill considered. >> and it. >> forced the trump administration then. to withdraw it. >> now they came back. >> later with a. >> new order.

>> that at least passed legal muster. and so i suspect that's. >> what may be happening here. they bit off too much. >> you know. >> it's certainly. >> the role. >> of the president and the congress to look at wasteful spending. but you're not going to do that in five minutes or over a weekend or however many days they were going to give these agencies. to respond. it just made no sense the way they they executed this and it created mass destruction and chaos, just as the travel order did at the airports. this one is causing it throughout the country much more broadly in every state and nonprofit and hospital in the country and in through the school systems as well. and so that's why they've had to had a step back. and but i would expect that their the second statement, i suspect they're trying to figure out a way to implement the president's order, but without the disruption we'll see if they're effective. >> yeah. one of the things he just said when he walked to the podium, and again, this is about the lake and riley act, but he was saying that he's had the, you know, most productive single week ever. he did sign about 350

executive orders. but as we're seeing some of them are having perhaps not the intended effect. and congressman, there was outrage. there was fear. and as we've said, confusion. and i want to play to you what some people who have been impacted by this have had to say. these are real. >> human beings out. here who are being. >> affected by people. >> in d.c. >> who. don't seem. >> to have. >> any sense. >> that anything. >> real is happening on the ground. >> we're talking several hundred. >> clients will be directly impacted relating to their housing assistance, supportive services programs that would have. >> to end. >> immediately, driving young people, families into homelessness. >> depriving people of those needed health care services is going to have catastrophic impacts on the health of the population. >> catastrophic impacts, do you think, is it possible that the white house is essentially

getting its footing under it, and that they'll learn some lessons from this rollout? >> well, i certainly hope they do learn some lessons and they should probably first understand it. you know, congress is not a speed bump on their road to progress. i mean, congress passed laws appropriating this money. congress didn't make suggestions to the executive branch about how to spend this money. they gave a command. this money will be spent for these purposes. the president does not have the authority to. he has some limited authority, maybe to pause, but he does not have the ability to impound money, which is really what they're going after here. he doesn't have it. and because because of the way they rolled this thing out, i think the administration now realizes that their people are impacted by these decisions, whether it's in housing or in health care or in education or at meals on wheels. they're finding out that these decisions affect people. and that was always the challenge with donald trump. when i dealt with him during the first term, he didn't always look at this from how does this affect people? you

know, just looking at this, looking at dollars and cents, this this maybe looks easy, but it's not. it's difficult. they've learned hopefully, hopefully they've learned a lesson. but i think congress needs to reassert itself. i mean, this is a direct attempt by the president to go after congress's article one power of the purse authority. >> let me go to the president now because he's speaking about the omb. >> social security, medicare, medicaid, or other entitlements that americans depend on. i've made abundantly clear from the very first. >> day. >> that i ran from office. i was. >> a long time ago. >> now that's 2015, if you. >> think about it. >> i announced in 2015 and. >> we won in 2016. >> we did very well in 2020, but we did really well just recently. and i'm restating. >> right now to correct any confusion that the media has purposely. >> and somehow. >> for whatever reason, created social. >> security. >> medicare and medicaid have not been affected by any action

we're taking in any way, shape. >> or form. we are. >> merely looking at parts. >> of the big bureaucracy. where there has been tremendous waste. >> and fraud. >> and abuse. >> in that process, we. identified and stopped. $50 million. >> being sent to. >> gaza to buy. >> condoms for hamas. >> 50 million. and you know. >> what's happened. >> to them? >> they've used. >> them as a method of making bombs. >> how about that? we stopped an attempt to. >> make an illicit payment for. illegal alien resettlement. we canceled $181 million in dai. >> training contracts. >> this is just for the training of people in dai, which has been terminated in completely terminated. and we paused $1.7 billion in unauthorized payments to foreign organizations, including stopping more than $40 million. that was on its way out

the door to the very corrupt. world health organization, which has. >> not done. >> its job and not done. >> it properly. >> we also. >> thank you. >> donald trump, getting a little astray from the topic which started with this omb memo. i want to bring in democratic florida congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz, who is on the house appropriations committee. so you understand how money moves through the government. and i just want to remind people who may be joining us of what happened. there was a decision made that more than a thousand programs were going to be frozen and reviewed, but it was described in a two page memo. and so there was confusion. yesterday we saw it at the white house press briefing about what exactly was covered. then omb put out a two sentence memo today that said

that that memorandum was rescinded. now, the press secretary, caroline leavitt, said this is not a rescission of the federal funding freeze, just a rescission of the omb memo. do you have any clarity for us on what's happening? >> well, this. >> republican rip. >> off. >> chris, is about as. >> clear as mud now. >> but that's the point. >> i mean. what donald. >> trump and. >> his project. >> 2025 cronies are trying to. >> do here. >> is muddy the waters as much as possible with the omb memo that froze, you know. across the board nearly. all programs that that fund things like housing and health care and meals for vulnerable people and transportation projects and. >> the list. >> goes on. >> froze all. >> of that. >> spending that was. appropriated by congress. >> that is. >> federal law, and that the that the president does not have the ability. to stop from being

spent and ensuring that these programs are carried out the way congress intended. >> they got caught with. >> their hand. in the in, in our purse. >> and now. >> they're trying. >> to. >> backpedal and hide the crime. and it's very clear that they. >> are still going to try to freeze spending. they're still going. >> to try to, quote, align the spending with whatever the president decided his agenda was. and i can tell you, just here at home. our regional transportation authority. >> has said that they. >> would. >> have to. >> stop the. >> all of their work. >> orders. >> as of 5:00 yesterday, we have the united. >> way that. >> has reached. >> out to us and is very concerned that they won't be able to move forward. with their housing for the. homeless program. >> we have healthy mothers, healthy babies that. >> helps pregnant, vulnerable, vulnerable pregnant women. >> who are really desperately. >> concerned that they won't have. >> the. resources to. take care. >> of pregnant mothers, child

care programs. meals on wheels. >> great. >> he's not affecting social security, medicare and medicaid, by the way, only not affecting medicaid because we court them, because. they closed all the medicaid portals in all 50 states. yesterday and then backpedaled on medicaid yesterday. to the chaos is the point. the congress is not going to allow the republican rip off to take place. >> neither are. >> organizations that are already suing. and the only reason they appear to. >> have. >> repealed can i. >> if i can stop you there for just a second, congressman, because then a logical question becomes, how you on this program and other democrats said during the campaign, believe donald trump when he tells you what he'll do and don't believe him when he says he doesn't know anything about project 2025. so given that, did you expect this and how are you as democrats and as you say, some organizations impacted by this prepared to

deal with it? >> well, we. >> already had one successful lawsuit and that that put a. a stop on the implementation of the memo until at least monday, when the judge can do a more thorough review. the there are organizations across the country that are gearing up to file lawsuits if they have not already filed them already. and no, i'm not at all surprised. the guy. >> who. >> is his nominated omb director was. >> the author of project 2025. this is project. >> 2025 coming to fruition, and. >> they've made very clear. >> through his press secretary statement that they intend to freeze funding on these programs so that they can review them to align with president trump's agenda and then stop the expenditures of those funds and hurt. children and pregnant mothers and homeless people. more people will commit suicide. i mean, these are programs

across the board. we'll have transportation, vital transportation programs and infrastructure programs come to a screeching halt as our regional transportation managers told us yesterday here in south florida, this is donald trump engaging in authoritarian, authoritarian, autocratic rule that he does not have the authority to engage in. and so it's going to require the continued all hands on deck to stop the republican steal. >> congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz on a busy day on the hill. thank you. appreciate you coming in to talk to us. and we want to go now back to president trump. he is talking about the strict immigration detention measure known as the lake and riley act. let's listen. >> in a. >> few moments, the lincoln riley act will become the very first bill that i proudly sign into law as the. >> 47th president of the united states.

lincoln was a. >> brilliant and beautiful 22 year old nursing student from georgia, the best. >> in her class. >> she was always the best. they would say lake, lake. and how do you do this and what do you do? they were always asking her questions. she was respected by everybody, even her teachers. they respected her so much. from the time she was in first grade, lincoln knew she wanted to spend her time caring for others. that's what she did to her friends and classmates. she was a light of warmth and kindness in every single room to her parents and family. she was everything in the world. they had a miserable period of time. just after 9 a.m. last february 22nd, lincoln went out for a jog on the campus of the university of georgia, but she was just never returned. she never came

back to her parents are here. sister. all of her relatives. while on her run, lincoln was attacked, viciously assaulted, beaten, brutalized and murdered by an illegal alien gang member who was set loose into our country by the last administration. we are deeply honored to be joined today by lincoln's parents, allison and john, and her sister, lauren. thank you very much. >> thank you. so sorry. >> we were together right after that happened. and it's a tremendous tribute to your daughter. what's taking place today, that's all i can say, but it's so sad. we have to be doing it at all. thank you very much for being here to lincoln's family. we will keep lincoln's memory alive in our hearts forever. everyone's hearts. with

today's action, her name will also live forever in the laws of our country. and this is a very important law. this is something that has brought democrats and republicans together. that's not easy to do. lincoln did it. lincoln did it. america will never, ever forget lincoln. hope riley, the vicious criminal who murdered precious lincoln, was an illegal alien member of the barbaric venezuelan prison gang known as trendy aragua. he trespassed across our southern border in 2022 and was apprehended by border patrol. but under the cruel policies of the last administration, instead of being deported as he should have been, he was released into the united states, as were millions of other people, many of them very dangerous people. and you see what we're doing? we're getting the hell out of here.

>> and he was soon arrested again. >> in new york city on charges of endangering a child. but because of new york city's deadly sanctuary policies, as we have in california and many other places which we're ending, we're going to end them. he was released again to reoffend. the biden administration then provided this illegal alien criminal with a free, taxpayer funded flight from new york to georgia, where he was arrested yet again constantly, this time for stealing from a walmart along with his gang member brother, who was a bad one only after being released a third time by the us law enforcement did this cold blooded criminal go out. and that fateful morning hunting for women on whom to prey. that's what he did. he hunted. he hunted. it was like a hunter. and we're going to show him who the hunter is. this

horrific atrocity should never have been allowed to happen. and as president, i'm fighting every single day to ensure that such a tragedy never happens again. we don't want this. >> to happen. and under the law. thank you. >> under the law. i'm signing today, the department of homeland security will be required to detain all illegal aliens who have been arrested for theft, burglary, larceny, shoplifting, assaulting a police officer, murder or any crime that results in death or serious injury. in addition, for the first time ever, this act gives state governments the ability to sue the federal government for immediate injunctive relief, if any future administration ever again refuses to enforce the immigration laws of the united states like happened before. >> four long years.

>> and that was happening for four long years. frightful years. amazing. you'd say, how can people do this? how can they allow this to happen? how can they allow criminals to pour into our country and then try and defend it? and they're still trying to defend it, but they can't. that's why i'm here instead of somebody else. actually, it's the biggest reason i believe it's the single biggest reason. inflation was horrible. many things were horrible during that administration. when you look at what took place in afghanistan, the way they got out, not that they got out, but the way so many things were horrible. but to me, this was the worst of all. it's a landmark law that we're doing today. it's going to save countless innocent american lives. i want to thank every house republican, every senate republican, as well as the 12 senate democrats and the 48 house democrats who voted to pass this vitally important bill. and many of them are with

us today. and i really do appreciate it. and i very much especially appreciate the bipartisan support the democrats really are. a big percentage of them came through, and plenty of them wanted to. they probably felt they couldn't, but they really wanted to. but they don't understand. that would have made him a lot more popular, would have made him a lot better with their people. the ones that didn't are going to be they're going to be sorry, because the people are not going to forget that they wouldn't sign. this is a perfect, incredible tribute to an unbelievable young lady. we are joined today by many great supporters of our new strong border policies and they are indeed strong, including vice president vance. thank you, jd. the secretary, scott bessent, who just got approved, by the way, we're scott, he just got approved. scott i'm very impressed. got a lot of democrat votes. he got a lot of.

>> democrat votes. >> that's great i don't know. is that a good thing or a bad thing? i'll have to think about that. secretary of homeland security who's going to be fantastic. i know her so well, and i know it's probably not complimentary because she is a woman, but she is tough. where is she? where is christie? christie? christie. great. stand up please. you have such an important job to do. >> and so president trump has gotten to the thank you part of the program for the folks who were important in getting the lincoln riley act passed. and that is a bipartisan group, as he mentioned, that democrats joined republicans to pass this bill to tough, toughen immigration detention measures. we're going to continue to listen in, but we want to get you up to date on another breaking news story, because right now, former new jersey senator bob menendez is in a new york courtroom for sentencing on charges that include bribery, extortion and acting as a

foreign agent. in july, a jury found menendez guilty of accepting bribes, including cash, gold bars, a mercedes benz, in exchange for helping three new jersey businessmen and the government of egypt and qatar. prosecutors are recommending he served 15 years behind bars, while his attorneys argue his sentence should be no more than 27 months. nbc's rehema ellis is outside the courthouse for us, with me here, criminal defense attorney and msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. rehema, what's the latest from the courtroom? what do we know? >> what we know is that the attorney. >> the defense attorney for. >> the former senator, bob menendez, is now arguing before the court that this former senator should get less than. >> the 15 year sentence. >> that the. prosecutors are recommending. in his argument, the attorney fee said that a 12 year sentence would be a disservice and disregard. >> for the. >> entire arc of the. >> senator's career. saying that he has spent almost half.

>> a century, 50 years in public service providing services to the people in his community. and he pointed out the where. >> the. >> senator came from, that he came from. >> cuba to. >> the united states. with very. >> little. >> and rose to one. >> of the. >> most powerful men in the senate. and again saying that a sentence longer than 12 years would be a. >> disregard for the entire. >> arc of his career. >> the judge. >> chimed in and. >> said, well, this certainly is the other. >> end of that arc. the defense. >> attorney is still. >> making his argument before. >> the court. >> hoping that. >> the judge will. >> be lenient. he said, we. >> hope that you will urge or we. >> will show some compassion. for the senator, who is now 71. years old, and for all of the things that he had done in his life, in service to his community over and over again, he pointed out that over 100 people had presented letters in support of menendez and in. support of him receiving leniency. it is. >> unclear what.

>> the judge is going to do. we should point out that. >> earlier today, two. >> co-defendants in this case were also sentenced. one got seven years and a $1.75 million fine. >> the other was. >> sentenced to eight years and a $1.25 million fine. and the judge saying in all of this that these crimes were really unthinkable in terms of attempting to and bribing. a united states senator. >> so. >> chris, this is ongoing as we speak. >> the senator. >> is hoping that he gets a lesser sentence, but the prosecution. is asking for a decade or more. chris. >> so should we read anything, danny, into the fact that fred davies and will hanna got seven and eight years? and what will the judge consider when he's making his decision about sentencing bob menendez? >> yes and. >> no, because they are defendants. >> who are similarly situated. >> and the federal sentencing. >> guidelines do. >> require courts to. >> take that into consideration. >> let me just. >> give you an idea. >> of how chaotic. >> federal sentencing is.

>> probation calculated. >> that highest end of. >> the guidelines range here at. >> 30 years. prosecutors are. >> asking for 15 years. the defense says, hey, you miscalculated. >> it's not a max. >> of 30 years. >> it's two and a half years. so obviously. there's a lot of. >> disagreement on how. >> to. >> apply the sentencing guidelines. menendez's team says, hey. >> all that. >> was proven. >> was that i. >> took a bribe. the jury. >> didn't find the. >> actual dollar. >> amount of the. bribe and. >> the dollar. >> amount. >> 800 plus thousand dollars is. >> the kind of. >> thing that. >> puts federal sentencing guidelines. >> into the stratosphere. >> i said. >> this. >> back when. >> this case. >> was indicted. >> if convicted. he was. >> facing real problems simply because. >> of the dollar. amounts involved. if you're a federal. >> criminal defendant. >> even. >> if you haven't. used a gun, a drug. >> or punched anyone. >> or done anything. >> violent, if. >> the dollar amounts of. >> what. >> the government considers loss are in the stratosphere, so too. >> are your sentencing guidelines. but menendez has a chance. >> because his co-defendants are getting along the order of about eight years. that's not what menendez wants. he wants two and

a half. >> all right. let's talk about another possibility. menendez seeking clemency from president trump. he's been advised, apparently, to go directly to the president, according to a person who's familiar with the argument. the crux of his argument is that he's been politically targeted by d.o.j, which is something president trump has talked about in his own case, and he's talked about in pardons for other people. if you were his defense attorney, does that look like a good fallback position to you? >> i would give. >> the exact same advice. >> in light. >> of the. fact that in the last 2 or 3 weeks, there have been thousands of pardons issued by both biden and president trump. who in their right mind. >> would ever go. >> through the office of the pardon attorney? again, that is a totally separate way, the way you're supposed to ask for a pardon. it takes years. you usually have to already be serving. >> a sentence. >> why do that? >> when you. >> can take a postage. >> stamp, stick it on an envelope, send it to the. >> white now white house, and. >> who knows what'll happen. but

either way, if it does. >> happen. >> it'll happen fast. because i imagine trump is presented with the idea he decides to pardon. that happens in a matter of minutes. everyone else who gets in line with the office of the pardon attorney, which is this. rarely known office that processes all these pardons. it's not necessary. the president could handle them all himself, but that is the way it's normally done. who in their right mind would even bother with them anymore and wait years and get in line and get assigned a number like you're at the deli? they do. they assign numbers. you wait forever. just write directly to the white house. if you're bob menendez, they'll take your call. they'll read your letter. you've got a better shot than you ever would. >> with the. >> formal official means of getting a pardon. >> when we go back to the more traditional system, bob menendez, his wife nadine, also has a trial coming up. she had a cancer diagnosis, so things got pushed back. but where does that stand? >> well, that's going. >> to be. i mean, if you're her attorneys and you're looking at how the outcome of this case went, both in terms of the trial and sentencing, and you're going to wait and see what bob menendez gets, because he's the

most closely situated to nadine. i mean, there is some argument to be made that the receiver of the bribe is in a slightly different position than the one making the bribe. but really, at the end of the day, the sentencing guidelines are going to be pretty close. and nadine menendez needs to think about whether she really wants to go to trial using this trial. and this sentencing as a bellwether to inform her decisions. >> the sad. >> reality for most criminal defendants in federal court is there's an almost 95% chance that you're either going to plead guilty or be found guilty after a jury's verdict. >> the strategy mahima seems to be continuing inside the courtroom. my understanding is that the argument that bob menendez, his lawyer, is making, has to do with the work he did after hurricane sandy. after hurricane maria, the argument being obviously right, this is somebody who has done a lot of good, whatever he may have been convicted of, he has served long and well. >> absolutely. in fact, they've been reading letters from people

in support of menendez requesting leniency for this man who seemed. >> to show. >> tremendous support. according to those who have submitted letters of 100 letters or so, according to the attorney, the defense attorney for menendez, and this is a man who served on the senate foreign relations committee on the banking and finance committee, who has been a member of the political community for almost half a century, 50 years before he ends this storied life in politics, coming from nothing, as his defense attorney is saying, coming from cuba with very little to account for and rising up and calling him, in a sense, the essence of what the american dream is all about, for that to end this way, with him resigning from his position, now being convicted of this bribery charge, these federal bribery charges, some 16 federal corruption charges, they're saying it does not dismiss all of the. >> good he. >> did in all of. >> the other.

>> years of his life. and that's what they're hoping the judge will pay attention to when it's time for him to issue the sentence. chris. >> rehema and danny, thank you both very much. i want to go back to the white house because lincoln, riley's mother, is now speaking. let's listen in. we're leading on the lake, and riley act from the start. our family will forever be grateful. >> for the. >> prayers of the people. >> across our nation, and for helping to get. >> this legislation. >> into law. we also want to thank president trump for the promises he made to us. >> he said he would secure our. >> borders and that he would never forget about lincoln. and he hasn't. he's a man of his word, and we trust that he will fight for the american people. >> most importantly, i want to thank. our lord and savior jesus. >> christ because without his. >> sacrifices. >> lincoln's story would. >> have ended. >> on. >> that horrific day that she. >> was. >> taken from us. but because of

him, we can continue living knowing that we will see lincoln again. there is no amount of change that. >> will ever bring back our precious. >> lincoln. >> our hope. >> moving forward. >> is that her. >> life saves lives. >> we're so thankful. that her passion for helping others, and her legacy for doing good in the name. >> of jesus. >> christ will carry on. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> unbelievable. >> come on. why don't you stand. >> right behind us? >> thank you. we're going to sign this in honor of lincoln riley. come on up here. some of the people that we love that

have been so instrumental. okay. >> we. >> okay? >> i know. right? >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. president. government funding. can you take a quick question. >> on government funding? >> because i don't think this is appropriate. really i respect that. but i don't think it's okay. i can just tell you government is doing very well and we're cutting way back, but this is not the appropriate time. thank you.

>> thank you. >> mr. >> for the first time in his second term, donald j. trump has signed a bill into law. it is indeed the lincoln riley act. we heard the heart rending statement from her mom, the university of augusta nursing student who was killed in 2024 by a venezuelan citizen who was in the u.s. illegally. and now this bill, now a law will require dhs to detain any migrant arrested or charged with crimes. so we will continue to follow this story for you, the president, obviously not taking any questions, but we have a lot more to talk about on chris jansing reports, because fed chair jerome powell is speaking about today's consequential decision to pause interest rate cuts, despite public pressure from the president to do that to cut rates. we've got that next

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>> saying that inflation. >> was getting better. >> instead they said inflation is. >> still elevated. >> so i think that's the concern here that the. >> progress on inflation might have stalled. >> and they don't want to cut rates and sort of, you know, rev up the economy. >> here saying. >> the economy and. >> the job. >> market are still strong but a strong economy and inflation too high. that's not a that's not. >> a recipe for cutting rates. president trump told business leaders in davos he'll demand that the fed drop rates immediately. obviously the message was maybe not received or received, but ignored. what do we know about that? >> the fed chief, that. >> was the. >> very first question. >> he was asked by reporters. are steve liesman actually from cnbc. and he said, look, i'm not going to answer anything about the president. i'm just going to say, we're going to put our head down and do our work based on what's happening in the economy. these are my words, not the winds of politics in washington. >> and when. >> asked if he had talked to the president about cutting rates right now, he said he had not. so you have a fed chief and a fed. this was a unanimous decision, by the way. all 12 members decided not to cut

interest rates. you have them trying to put. >> themselves over here. >> on the side and say, we are watching inflation, we're watching the job market, we're watching consumer spending, and. >> we're trying to make sure. >> that we're doing the. >> right thing. >> with. >> rates for the rest of the for the rest of the country. this is going to. mean rates might be uncomfortably high for consumers for a while. you've got mortgage rates near 7%, you've got credit card rates at record highs. you've got, you know, car loans between 4% and 6%, depending on 6%, actually an even higher depending on whether it's a new or used car. so look at how rates have changed over the past few years. >> right. >> and they're going to stick around here at least for now. let me ask you about these major tech companies. meta microsoft, tesla. they're going to release their quarterly earnings right. quarterly reports after the closing bell today in a little more than an hour, something investors always watch very closely. but after a big week of news on the artificial intelligence progress or lack thereof, what are you looking for? well, what. >> are these big companies. >> going to say about their their spending on ai? and they

will be asked for sure by investors, you. >> know, what do you make of. >> the deep. >> sea progress? what does that say about. >> how. much you're. spending on on. >> ai in the us? and is there a bubble in in ai and in tech? i'm sure we'll we'll hear from some of these ceos, but i expect they're going to say their spending plans remain pretty consistent for how they're moving forward in this new landscape. >> they're hoping. >> that artificial intelligence is going to help them make more money down the road, and that they're going to be able to sell it to clients who will make more money. so this is still kind of a an arms race in ai. and that's why we'll be really watching carefully what these ceos say. christine romans, it's always good to have you on the show. thank you. that's going to do it for us this hour. make sure to join us for chris jansing reports every weekday, 1 to 3 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage continues msnbc. our coverage continues with katy tur reports next. t-mobile's 5g network connects a hundred thousand delta employees so they can make every customer feel like they've arrived before they've left the ground.

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>> good to be. >> with you. i'm katy tur. the trump administration has just sent. >> a mass. >> disregard email to the federal government. after 24 hours of confusion and worry. the office of management. >> and budget. >> rescinded its memo to freeze all federal aid. you can see it right here. it's two lines. it basically says, never mind, call your lawyer if you're confused. so is that the end of it? is it over? the white house says no. we've got more. on that.