>> good to be. >> with you. i'm katy tur. the trump administration has just sent. >> a mass. >> disregard email to the federal government. after 24 hours of confusion and worry. the office of management. >> and budget. >> rescinded its memo to freeze all federal aid. you can see it right here. it's two lines. it basically says, never mind, call your lawyer if you're confused. so is that the end of it? is it over? the white house says no. we've got more. on that. there's

also another big memo that was sent out last night by the white house. another mass message, this time to 2 million federal employees, offering all of them a buyout. all they have to do is reply to this email right here. right here with the word resign. but democrats are warning be careful. that the president doesn't necessarily have the authority to pay out all of that money. >> so my message. to federal. employees who receive. >> this is. >> yeah, the president has tried to. >> terrorize you for about. >> a week and. >> then. >> gives you a little sweetheart offer. if you resign in the next week. we're just going to pay you for doing nothing for the next seven months. don't be fooled. he's tricked hundreds of. >> people with that offer. >> if you accept that. >> offer and. >> resign, he'll stiff you. just like he stiffed the contractors. >> all right, let's try to. >> figure. >> out what's going on. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell.

msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, and staff writer at the atlantic and author of the atlantic daily newsletter, tom nichols. kelly, let's start with omb. the reception of this memo, caroline leavitt says it was not rescinded. what's going on? well. >> what they are. >> saying is that they wanted to stop the. court action that put a freeze on their memo. and by rescinding this memo, it. effectively ends that legal loop. their larger argument is they say that the original memo, which came out in a couple of pages of detail, listed several of the executive orders the president has signed on things relating to transgender and education and immigration and various things. there are so many now we almost need a separate beat on the on the executive orders. and they're saying that the freezes of funding that were enumerated in those separate executive memos are still in effect. in all honesty, i can't tell you if that's accurate or not. i can

only tell you that's the argument they are making. what we are hearing now is that it is their intention to try to continue this push to curtail federal spending, especially in areas where it does not match up with the government approach that the trump administration wants to pursue. and that, of course. is a leaner federal government that does not have diversity, equity and inclusion policies, does not have transgender programing, does not have some of the different things that are a part of the culture conversation that are going on. so they want to continue to do that. then there's the separate question. of do they have the legal authority from the executive branch to change how the federal money appropriated by congress is spent? so we're working through all of these questions. the short answer is the chaos that was set off by the memo has been calmed for the moment. there is nothing happening immediately, and we will find out as we go forward how they're going to. >> deal. >> with this. the white house,

in various people we've talked to is basically saying they believe they are making the message clear, that they intend to put forward policies that will curtail spending. and at the same time, they wanted to calm things down in the moment. this is arguably an error on the part of this administration, and they're trying to clean it up. katie. all right. kelly o'donnell, thank you very much. tom, i'm going to go to you on just the politics of this before we weigh into all the legal questions, because there are quite a few. why do this? i mean, they had to have known. we have been told repeatedly by everybody in this white house or the allies surrounding them, that this is the white house that knows what it's doing. they've spent four years studying the federal government. they're going to come in and they're going to understand how to how to work the levers. they're going to understand how to get things done. this seems like a bit of a messy first stab at it. >> some of them. >> know how to work. >> the levers.

>> some of. >> them know how to get things done. you're going to see, i think, you. >> know. >> when you have some of the. >> other cabinet. >> members in place, they're. >> going to be probably a. >> little more. >> adept than this. >> but the answer. >> to your. >> question, katie, about. >> why do. >> it is why not do it? >> yeah, it's. >> it makes. >> the base happy. >> it makes. >> the president. >> seem like. >> he's fulfilling all the day. >> one promises, you know. >> the publicity. >> that he'll. >> get in. >> the media ecosystem. that supports him will be that there he is fighting for you. and, you know, the judges and the deep. >> state and. >> the bureaucrats. are all doing their best to stop him. >> most of these. >> i think many. >> of these. >> executive orders are purely performative. >> they're meant. to send messages. >> you just. >> heard it. now, you. >> know. >> in the. >> reporting of, well, the. >> white house thinks it's sent its message. >> okay. >> you know. >> its message is we're going. >> to stop. >> all federal spending. >> even though we don't have the legal. >> authority to do it. but sure,

message sent, message received. >> and now they can sort of make. >> the court. case go away and they'll do it again. we saw this. >> you know. >> memories are short. we saw this in 2017 with the travel ban where it got swatted down in court and they had to retool it. and then. it got swatted down again. and they kept finally, you know, redoing it until they had something that could pass. legal muster. and i think you're seeing. >> that kind of pattern. >> happening again here. >> but one of the things that that led to him not being reelected in 2020 was all of this chaos, this, this constant bouncing ball, and people didn't know where to look. and there was always drama coming out of the white house. and he was constantly on your television screen. i mean, that was one of the arguments for why joe biden won. there was also just the fact that we were in the middle of covid, and it was a very scary time. so it was especially daunting to have the president come out and be all over the place on these issues. do they still believe that flooding the zone, that creating all of this chaos, that just exciting the base is good strategy? i mean,

if they do want to change government and do want to get things done, do they still see that this messaging and this exciting a, you know, a segment. >> of. >> the of the voters. is a good idea? >> yes. >> clearly they do. >> because. >> you know, look how that's. >> working out. >> you know, here we are saying. words that i never thought we would say. >> secretary of defense. >> pete hegseth. >> you know, secretary. >> potentially secretary of hhs robert f kennedy jr. they are getting things they. want by energizing the base to pressure elected republicans. >> the rest of. >> it, they don't really have to care very much about. >> i guess. >> my question is. >> tom was what do they actually want to do here? i mean, as we've been watching, watching this past week, what can we tell that this administration actually wants to get done? >> i think donald. >> trump wanted. >> to stay out of jail. >> mission accomplished. >> he's elected. he's president.

he's safe. the rest. >> of it is. >> you know, up for grabs. i don't think there's any some of the people coming in with trump have a very coherent vision. others are, you know, elon musk. or you know, well. >> now, ramaswamy. >> now that he's gone. but. you know, this is a very chaotic situation and i think we shouldn't, you know, impose. more intellectual order on it than there may be, because i think the president's. goal and i said this through the whole campaign, the president's goal. >> was. >> to win and extinguish the legal threats to him and. >> and to. >> the people around him. and he's done that. >> the rest of. >> it now. >> is, you know. >> you're going to see this exactly what you're seeing now, weeks of performance. art with other people, grabbing pieces of this as they can to. >> try to. get the things. >> they want to do. but, you know, this isn't particularly coherent, at least not at this stage. >> the other part of this is not

just the omb memo, but the offer. >> lisa. >> to all or 2 million, at least federal employees, not employees for the pentagon or defense or the postal service, for instance. but a lot of the other federal employees to just say, take this buyout. we'll give you seven months, eight months of time to spend at home not working. we'll pay you for those months. just reply, resign to this, to this email. can he pay out those? i mean, you heard senator kaine talking about don't take it. it's a. it's a trick. can he actually pay these people out if they stop working? >> there is some historical precedent, katie, for giving limited severance payments to federal employees. but there. >> is nothing. >> that we've ever seen like this before where you're offering a buyout essentially to two plus federal workers all at once. and senator kaine is right to sound a note of caution. the legality of doing this, particularly given the money involved, is where the rubber meets the road. right? if congress holds the purse strings. what senator kaine said in that floor speech that you

referenced earlier is that there is no appropriation that would take care of this massive buyout. and while the. >> president does. >> have some powers to shift money around within a department or within agencies that are all within a same department, he can't necessarily come up with billions of dollars to pay out millions of federal workers who want to have a deferred resignation date sometime between now and september 30th. there is reason to be appropriately skeptical of that, as senator kaine has. >> been there trying to use federal employees not showing up to work as a reason for this, that that return to work has been too slow. it's been a lot of years since covid. there are a lot of companies that feel like employees should be back in their offices. this is the federal government saying come back to work. on that note, i'm sure they're going to get some sympathy from a lot of people around the country who have had to go to an office every day and do believe in that. does that offer a legal basis for them to extend these these buyouts? >> not necessarily. because,

again, they're. not doing this as sort of like a disciplinary action. you have not reported to work, and therefore we're going to offer this to you. they're saying if you don't feel like you can comply with our return to work edicts, then this might be available to you. and that might be attractive to some people. but we're also seeing some indicia that it's having the exact opposite effect on certain federal workers who are taking to reddit and other forums to say to each other, you know what? that resignation looked pretty good. but now that i understand that they're really just trying to drive me out of here, i'm going to stay here until they drag me out of this place feet first. so it's interesting to see how this is changing the incentive structure of many career federal employees. >> you know, tom, you mentioned a moment ago the nomination hearings and rfk. and we're going to get into that in a little while. >> what i've. >> been watching for is maybe a coherent pushback from democrats on not just the nominees, but the agenda. and we've seen glimpses of it. we certainly saw democrats trying to hold rfk to account for his his own, you know, very fulsome record out

there on on what he said about vaccines and health care and whatnot in the past. but what i've also noticed in the pushback that we've seen in these early days is that democrats are relying on, on something that they don't think worked for them during the campaign, which is defending of the status quo defending. of medicare as it currently is made up defending of medicaid, as it's currently made up defending of the federal work force as it as it is currently being used. these are things that voters, by and large said aren't really working the way they should for them. it's part of the reason why donald trump got back into office. have you noticed this? i mean. >> is this. >> how did the democrats go back at donald trump without being seen as a party of no, everything's fine. leave it the way. >> it is. >> let's go back to that. >> well, i disagree. >> with the way you're framing the question, katie, because and let's go to, you know, federal employees, for example. part of the reason i think the president is doing this is because he has

to frame. >> this question. >> or created this image of. >> federal employees. >> as a bunch of slackers padding around the house and their bunny slippers, you know, watching netflix. i was a federal employee during covid and after covid, you know, i had to work from home. this notion that only 6%, you know, are in the office, this is nonsense. and it's of course, people are mad about it because they believe something that isn't true. telework agreements, remote work agreements, schedule changes, flex work these. >> were. >> all part of government service for years before covid, but it serves the president's purpose to attack the bureaucracy, because that is one of the things that he's concerned holds back his plans and certainly did in in his first term. and so he is telling the american people, these are a bunch of lazy, you know, people just collecting checks for

sitting at home at two in the afternoon with a with a bowl of popcorn. you know, when you talk about people saying. >> my question. >> and i'm not i, i if. i said this, i didn't intend to i'm not trying to say that the federal workforce should be denigrated, but there is an idea that or a feeling that the federal government isn't working as well as it could or as it should for people. they're not getting the benefits that they are paying into the system for, that their cities aren't safe, that they're not clean. all that stuff. that's the. >> republicans are telling. >> them that. >> if you. ask people exactly what is it that you think isn't working? are you not getting social security checks, are you not? i mean, i can see the buying that the democrats are in because they're constantly having to argue against things that aren't true. so they're in the position of saying the thing you were just told isn't true. and then, of course, the answer to that is, well, clearly you're a defender of the status quo. well, you you can agree that the

status quo always could be improved, but you can't keep fighting with these fantasies that the republicans keep throwing into the public sphere. you know, if you're going to talk about things that are distinctly not working, for example, and the president says, look, here are the following programs that i really want to target because i think they're an issue. that's one thing. it's another thing entirely to say, you know what? the federal government doesn't work. i'm freezing everything, and i don't know how you respond to that. if you're a sensible democrat, other than to say that's simply that's simply not true. >> that is. >> that is the bind that i was trying to point out. tom nichols, tom. >> thanks so much for being with me and lisa rubin. >> thank you as well. still ahead, what rfk jr wouldn't or couldn't answer that might mean more than what he did say in his confirmation hearing. we've got some really provocative sound. plus, what defense secretary hegseth did as one of his first moves to the pentagon. that

looks a whole lot like retribution. and what the fed is doing today as president trump pressures them to cut interest pressures them to cut interest rates. we are back in 90s greatness...hurts. but sometimes, you gotta put on your game face. that's why tylenol provides fast, effective pain relief. that's tylenol. that's care without limits. just chase a career, but one day. follow your. heart. with ambition like that, you need someone who elevates advice to a craft. at ubs, we match your vision with insight and expertise to shape a unique outcome for you. advice is. >> our craft. >> hey, it's ryan reynolds and.

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was a genetically. >> engineered bioweapon that. >> targets black and white. >> people. >> but spared ashkenazi jews and chinese people? >> i didn't say it was deliberately targeted. i just i just quoted an nih funded an nih published study. >> did you say that it. targets black and. >> white. >> people but spared ashkenazi? >> i quoted a study, your honor. i quoted the nih study that showed. >> i'll take. >> that. >> as a yes. >> i have to move on. >> mr. >> i have to move on. >> did you say that lyme disease is a is highly likely a materially engineered bioweapon? i made sure. >> i put. >> in the highly likely. did you say lyme disease is a highly likely militarily engineered bioweapon? >> i probably did say that. >> did you say that? >> that's what. >> i want all of our colleagues to hear it. mr. kennedy, i want them to hear it. you said yes.

did you say that exposure to pesticides causes children to become transgender? >> no, i never said that. >> okay. >> i have the record that i'll give to. >> the chairman. >> and he. >> can make his. judgment about what. >> you said. did you write in your book? >> and i. >> it's undeniable. that african american african. >> aids is an entirely different disease from. western aids. >> yes or no? >> mr. kennedy? i'm not sure. if i may. >> i'll give it to the chairman. mr. mr. kennedy. >> and my final question. did you say on a podcast and. >> i quote, i wouldn't. >> leave it abortion. >> to the states. my belief is we should leave it to the woman. >> we shouldn't have the government involved, even. >> if it's full term. >> did you. >> say that, mr. kennedy? >> senator, i believe that every abortion is a tragedy. >> did you say it, mr. kennedy? this matters. it doesn't. >> matter what you come here and say. that isn't true. that's not reflective of what. you really

believe. >> that you haven't said over a decade after. decade after decade. >> because unlike. >> other jobs where. >> confirming around this. >> place, this is. >> a job. >> where it is life and death. that nih study that kennedy is referencing was published in july of 2020, before an effective covid treatment was available. it also made no reference to chinese people being less receptive to the virus or the virus being targeted. it did say one particular receptor for covid appeared not to be present in the amish and ashkenazi jewish populations. here now is nevada senator catherine cortez masto, asking rfk jr. about federal law. >> let's say. >> a. >> woman experiencing. >> a life threatening. >> condition like a. >> heart attack goes to the er. >> as a lawyer. >> you would agree. >> that. >> that federal law. >> protects her right to emergency care, correct? >> yes. >> a pregnant woman with a life threatening bleed.

>> bleeding from an incomplete. >> miscarriage goes to the er. >> and her doctor also. >> determines that she. >> needs an emergency abortion. >> but she's in a. >> state where. abortion is banned. >> you would agree also, as an attorney, that federal law protects. >> her right to that emergency care. >> correct? >> i don't know. i mean, the answer to that is i don't know if the state. >> well. >> let me. >> ask you this. as an. >> attorney. >> doesn't federal. >> law preempt state law? >> the federal constitution does also. >> finally, new hampshire senator maggie hassan on abortion. >> mr. kennedy, i'm confused. >> you have clearly stated in the past that bodily autonomy is one of your core values. the question is, do you stand for that value or not? when was it that you decided to sell out the values you've had your whole life in order to be given power by president trump?

>> senator, i agree with president trump that every abortion is a tragedy, that we can't be a moral authority in this country. >> right? so but that isn't what. >> you said. >> back in new hampshire in 2023. my question is, exactly when. did you. decide to sell out your life's work and values to get this position? >> senator, i agree with president trump that every abortion is a tragedy. >> so what you're telling us, just to. >> be clear, because my time is limited, is that regardless of what you believe, regardless of what values you have, if president trump tells you to do something, you're going to do it. you said just now the discussion about mifepristone. oh, he's asked me to study the safety of it. here are. >> the safety. >> studies that tell us mifepristone is safe. >> joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent vaughn hillyard, who's been following this hearing. vaughn, can you give us a sense of how senators feel about this? i know the republicans that were on that committee today seemed very warm and welcoming to rfk jr open to

confirming him, cheerleading him forward. is that how the rest of the senate feels? >> right. except i think there's one republican senator from at least this committee here today. i think that we have to pay attention to. and that was bill cassidy. and bill cassidy asked him specifically about medicaid, and kennedy seemed to be unsure of the details of exactly how medicaid works. and he suggested that people were, you know, concerned about premiums. but premiums are, by and large, not paid for in when for individuals on medicaid. and i think that this is where the line of questioning that you just heard from was a direct effort to get republican lawmakers to question the credibility and the honesty of the word of robert f kennedy jr, and using abortion specifically as a means of questioning his credibility, i think, was key for maggie hassan and ron wyden and michael bennett here. and that is where when this potentially will likely be voted out by the finance committee and ultimately go to the entire senate for a

vote, i think is going to be a really a tough position here for kennedy, because we have seen him, particularly on vaccines, over the course of the last several months, ever since donald trump suggested he was under consideration to be as hhs secretary, begin to, you know, change his his public persona and the words of what he said the vaccine policy should be at hhs, right? if you go back to 2021 and social media posts are right there. they're still online. in which he was calling for the covid vaccine to be pulled from the market. and it was interesting when ron wyden was asking him during this hearing about his efforts in 2021, through his nonprofit organization, to have the covid vaccines revoked from the market, mr. kennedy said, went on a tangent of saying that kids six years old and younger shouldn't be vaccinated through emergency authorization use, but that's not what his nonprofit organization was attempting to do. they were trying to revoke

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>> million. >> coin bonus. >> jackpot party a party in every spin. >> we've got. >> some more breaking news out of the white house. moments after signing the lincoln riley act, president trump announced that he will be signing another executive order on immigration today. >> i'm also signing an executive order to instruct the departments of defense and homeland security to begin preparing the 30 000 person migrant facility at guantanamo bay. most people don't even know about it. we have 30,000 beds in guantanamo to detain the worst criminal illegal aliens threatening the american people. some of them are so bad we don't even trust the countries to hold them because we don't want them coming back. so we're going to send them out to guantanamo. this will double our capacity

immediately. right. and tough. that's a tough that's a tough place to get out of. today's signings bring us one step closer to eradicating the scourge of migrant crime in our communities, once and for all. >> joining us now, nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. so was this on the bingo card, julia? >> not on mine today. katie. i came over to the camera. when i. heard that, because this is something that really hadn't even been floated. a lot of the things that trump has done so far, we heard about during the transition. i think this came as a surprise to a lot of people, even in law enforcement and at the pentagon, who might not have been prepared for that announcement. but what it's doing is it's answering a big question about trump's mass deportation plans, because right now they've done these arrests, they've showed them to you on camera. the question is, where are those people going? because ice is only funded for about 37,000 beds, they're already over capacity. they have right now about 41,000 people in ice detention in the united states. the question is, where do they put them? the first thing i feel

like viewers should know is that there is a place for migrants in guantanamo bay. i've actually been down there and seen it. it is completely separate from the places, the high security facilities where known or suspected terrorists are kept. it is a very different atmosphere, a place where they can live. and it is a very small place because it's made for people who are interdicted at sea, usually haitians who are trying to flee haiti. they could be processed there and then if they have protection to the united states, they could go there or they would be sent back to haiti. it's nowhere near the 30,000. so right now we're trying to figure out where that 30,000 number is coming from. because the way he described it there, katie, it sounded like he was trying to conflate these two places, the high security prison as well as that place to house detention for migrants. so really confusing exactly how this is going to work. we could see soft sided tent facilities. that could be one option they're exploring. >> all right. julia, ainsley. julia, thank you very much. and in one of his first official moves, his first official acts

as secretary of defense, pete hegseth revoked the security detail and the clearance for retired joint chiefs of staff chairman general mark milley. hegseth also ordered the pentagon's inspector general to review milley's conduct. joining us now, nbc news correspondent covering national security and the military, courtney kube. this sounds like retribution, courtney. >> well. >> and i have to say, it's not. this all started. >> actually. >> on day one of president trump being. >> inaugurated. >> when former. >> chairman of the joint chiefs. >> general mark milley, his. >> chairman. >> portrait, which literally had. >> been only been up. >> for several days, was. quietly taken down. i can tell you that. >> the area. >> where it was hanging in the on the e ring, it's already been painted over. there is no evidence that there was ever a portrait hanging there. but then now his also his portrait as the army chief. of staff has also been taken down. katie, i can also tell you former army secretary and secretary of defense mark esper, his army

secretary portrait has also been taken down. so we're now up to three portraits that have been removed over just the past several days. but as you mentioned, in addition to this portrait, the portraits that are. >> being taken. >> down here, there has also been some pretty serious news about the former chairman. his security detail has been revoked. secretary of defense pete hegseth announcing that late yesterday, he informed the former chairman that his security, his security detail and his security clearance would be revoked. in addition to that, now department of defense, office of inspector general, will they have been directed to begin an inquiry into general milley's past his time as a general officer, to make a recommendation that could lead to a grade determination board that could, in fact, change general milley's retirement status. he retired as a four star general. there could be a recommendation and then a board that would bump him down in grade, that would revoke his four star general retirement

status. that would have a huge impact on the amount of money he makes in retirement. katie, i don't expect that to happen very quickly, and i just have to point out what we're talking about. this and all of these many changes throughout the administration. the dod, oig, office of inspector general, the ig there, robert, was one of the ones who was quietly fired late on friday night. there is now an acting inspector general who will be leading this effort again. one of the first things that the new secretary of defense, pete hegseth, has ordered done. katie. >> that's important context. if a new administration comes in, could his star get re restored if it's taken away? >> you and i think exactly like katie because i asked that exact same question. yes. technically there can be a grade determination board and then there can be another one. no one i have been able to find is aware of that ever happening in the past, though. >> what do they say about great minds, courtney? i'll give us that. courtney. thank you very much. still ahead, president trump thinks he should have some control over the fed's interest rate decisions. you've heard him rail about this, but what the

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news senior business correspondent christine romans. all right. so what happened. >> well, you know, president. >> trump had said that he wants lower interest rates immediately. >> and the fed. >> chief saying actually all 12 fed members saying no, we're going to leave interest rates right where they are. they're looking at inflation. they're looking at the job market. they're looking at an. overall strong economy, low unemployment, good consumer. >> spending and saying, we don't. >> need to cut interest rates here right now. also pointing out that inflation is not exactly where they'd like it to be. you know, the consumer the cpi is like 2.9%, 2% is more like the fed's target. so the fed members thinking that maybe they can just sit here right now. the backdrop of a good economy. you also don't want to be cutting interest rates into a good economy, because you can make that inflation number get worse again. so they're worried about inflation and they don't want to cut rates right now even though. >> the president. >> wants them to. and he said so out loud. do you have a sense that he's pressuring his people to pressure the fed, or that there might be a change, that he

might intervene or his folks going to him and saying, not a good idea, let it lie. >> not only did he say he wants the fed to lower interest rates when he was at davos talking to business leaders, he said he wants interest rates around the world to start to come down, led by the united states. these these independent these are independent. central banks. and the issue for jay powell, the fed chair powell and the members of the fed are do you cut interest rates now and risk making a big problem with inflation down the road, especially since some of the president's policies, if enacted, could be inflationary? he was asked about that a lot. the fed chief. he didn't really go there. he said we just there's too many uncertainties about the president's plans. >> what would scott best. >> advise donald trump? >> it's interesting. >> scott bessent seems to have a little more of a measured approach so far. you might have seen his op ed where he was talking about, let's talk about tariffs that are 2.5% every month to allow businesses and countries to get used to these changes. donald trump is not a measured, you know, bit by bit person. he really wants kind of

more of a shock and awe. so we shall see what the voices around him. also the commerce secretary and others, what they advise him on his his relationship with the fed. the fed chief, though, said, was asked the very first question he was asked was about donald trump and he said, i'm not going to talk about the president. i haven't talked to the president. and we do our we just look at the numbers and do our job over here. >> the one moderating force that he has, a couple moderating forces, and one of them is just a flood of bad press that usually or that did in the first administration, get him to roll back some of the more controversial moves, child separations, for instance. they pulled back on that after just the torrent of bad media and the horrible images that came out of it. the other is the stock market. and when the stock market doesn't do well, donald trump takes it personally. he wants the stock market. he owns it. he wants the stock market to do great underneath him. i wonder if that is being if that's being conveyed to him. if you if you mess with the fed, you potentially are going to mess pretty seriously with the stock market. >> and i'm. >> sure he has been advised, i don't know personally, but i'm sure he's been advised that tariffs could roil the stock

market and could cause inflation to increase. and that would hurt, you know, his scorecard, his record in the stock market. but one thing about about president donald trump, he tends to take credit when he wants to take credit. and he doesn't take blame when there's blame to be had. i'm going to use egg prices for an example. when prices were high and eggs were expensive under the biden administration and grocery prices were high, he blamed joe biden. you've got egg prices that are forecast to go up another 20% this year, according to usda. he doesn't take credit for egg prices or grocery prices on his watch. so it's more selective, i think. and we shall see if the stock market holds in here. the s&p is up 22% over the past year. so it's been a it's been a good run for all investors. >> all right christine romans thank you very much for updating us on the fed. we've got some breaking news. senator bob menendez, a former senator from new jersey convicted on extortion, conspiracy and obstruction and acting as a foreign agent after a sensational trial, has now just been sentenced to 11 years

behind bars, according to our reporters inside the courtroom, we have danny cevallos here with us who can help us understand this. danny, this is such a big deal, such a big deal. 11 years for a former senator forced to resign because of this conviction. >> back when this case was indicted, i assume menendez's attorneys warned him that this is one of those cases. it's a white collar federal criminal case where you have no guns, no drugs, no violence, no prior convictions for menendez. but yet it is the loss guidelines. it is the calculated loss that puts a case into the stratosphere when it comes to sentencing. the sentencing guidelines in this case were calculated at a maximum of 30 years, and that was driven almost entirely by the loss amount. and also, in addition, based on his official status and some other level increases under the guidelines. but make no mistake about it, most of the

boost here is because of the dollar amount involved, and that's got to give someone like menendez's wife, who has not yet gone to trial, some real pause as she considers whether or not she does want to go to trial. >> menendez beat charges before he wasn't able to do it this time. is this the sort of thing where his lawyers would have advised him, take a plea deal on this, on this? don't take the risk because of the sentencing, because it could be if you're found guilty of this 11 or more years in prison. >> it may be that menendez beating those first federal criminal charges were the worst thing that ever happened to him, because it might have filled him with this false idea that defendants charged with white collar crimes in federal criminal court have a shot at winning. and statistically, i hate to say it, as a criminal defense attorney, when you're in federal court, you have virtually no chance of winning menendez's win if you want to call it that. the first time around was as rare as they come. it simply does not happen that

often. so if that filled him with any false confidence that you could just go to trial on this case and roll the dice, federal court is not somewhere you roll the dice. and these sentences are a great example. not a shred of violence, guns or drugs. and we're looking at decades in prison combined for all these defendants. >> i remember donald trump talking about how democrats never get charged, never get sentenced. this is a very high profile democrat to be both charged and sentenced for doing wrong. his defense attorney was pleading for leniency in the sentence. they had a number of letters from folks trying to show the judge that he has done good in his life. he's done good in his career. he they were arguing the defense attorney that the good outweighs the bad and the arc of his life. they were trying to get a two year sentence. that's what they thought was appropriate. how does the judge weigh these sorts of things when you have so many letters from folks saying, look at the entirety of this, of this

guy's life as opposed to this, this very bad thing that he did that he was convicted of, of how does a how does a judge in a case like this try to understand both of those things and hand out a hand down a fair sentence? >> well. this is. >> a great example of how you can take effect in sentencing, and either side can use it to their advantage. while it's true, and if i were the defense, i would make the same argument. look at all the good this man did compared to his co-defendants. so give him a lesser sentence than the eight years his co-defendants got, but the prosecutors can look at that same fact. this is someone that the public trusted. this is someone that people elected to do good. so it's worse. it's an aggravating factor that he did all this good as a senator, as an elected official, because he should have known better. these private individuals, hey, they didn't know they weren't somebody who was elected by the people. this is somebody that owed a duty of honesty to the people that he served. so you can see how that same fact is something that each side can use

to their advantage at sentencing. and in terms of what the judge has to consider, i do not envy a federal district judge when it comes to sentencing in these cases, because when you look at the guidelines, the max under the guidelines, not the total max, was 30 years. the defendant wanted two years, the prosecution wanted 15 years. how do you figure that out? because really you can apply the guidelines. but no two cases are exactly the same. it is a very weighty decision that a judge has to. >> weigh their guidelines and they're not mandates. the prosecutor said that bob menendez's time in the senate was a privilege, and that should have been its own reward if he was not corrupt. rehema ellis is joining us from outside of the courtroom. rehema, can you give us a little bit more about what it was like inside that courtroom, how the senator responded to this sentence. >> for sure. based on notes we're getting from our our producer in the courtroom, this was a dramatic end to 50 years of public service, 30 years in the senate. and the judge had an

opportunity to hear from letters from more than 100 people in support of former senator bob menendez. and at the end of it, the judge said, what bob menendez has done is that he has that he diminished that faith that the people had put in him. he said, your efforts to assist in the government of egypt, sharing nonpublic information with cairo, you took considerable efforts to sway a u.s. attorney and federal officers. you accepted enormous bribes, official acts by you that were a quid. >> pro quo. >> in exchange for bribes. you lost your good name at the end of the day. somewhere along the way, you failed the voters of new jersey. it was a tearful contrition that bob menendez presented to the court, crying several times, saying that he was sorry for what he did, also acknowledging that he had done many things for the people of new jersey who had elected him to the office of senator. and at the end of the day, it seemed as

though the judge was saying and not just seems the judge said very clearly, you weren't doing the people a favor, you were doing your job. and then he says, essentially, you failed in your job. you failed the people of new jersey. and for that, the judge sentenced him to 11 years in prison as a result of being convicted on 16 federal counts of corruption. the judge ended by saying that he has an opportunity to appeal, but he made it very clear that the crimes that bob menendez was convicted of, he was being sentenced appropriately after the defense had asked for something as leniency as home detention and community service. the judge rejected that completely and rebuked him seriously for what he says. the crimes that he committed. >> yes, certainly a momentous decision, a big day, a sad one for the state of new jersey. former senator bob menendez, 11 years in prison, prison for conspiracy, for corruption, for

bribery. very serious charges. rehema and danny, thank you very much. coming up next, what rfk jr running hhs could mean for women who are seeking health care. we have some specifics for care. we have some specifics for you. don't go anywhere. (vo) oof, stuck paying for that old phone? don't be. ♪ you know, at verizon, we'll pay off your phone. and you'll get iphone 16 with apple intelligence, on us. now with genmoji. that's a value of up to sixteen hundred dollars. only on verizon. upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. so sick. are you okay? i'm incredible!

so many in-network docs on zocdoc. this one never rushes appointments. and that one makes patients feel heard. booked! sick! you've got options. book now. >> excuse the purple out there. my background is back. all right. rfk jr was pressed on repeatedly, which was pressed repeatedly on reproductive health care and hhs authority over it by senators catherine cortez masto and senator maggie hassan. joining us now, senator maggie hassan, who represents the state of new hampshire, she's a member of the health, education, labor and pensions committee. thank you for being with us. the issue that that you and senator masto focused on was abortion and amtala the emergency act, that that mandates that you have to care for somebody who's suffering an

emergency medical incident. what was what was rfk's answer on that? why could he answer definitively yes. if a woman is having a heart attack, she's going to get mandated care if she goes into an emergency room. but if she's having a miscarriage that is threatening her life, she doesn't get mandated care. well. >> katie, thanks for having me on. so what we saw today in rfk's hearing was a man who will abandon his principles in order to get this seat as health and human secretary, health and human services secretary, and do donald trump's bidding. so robert kennedy jr has a long history of being pro-choice. he says a woman's bodily autonomy is essential to her well-being. and as recently as a year and a half, two years ago in new hampshire running for president, he said that. and so i wanted. to find out from him why he is suddenly saying that he will just do whatever donald trump, who, as you know, has dismantled

the support for a woman's right to make her own health care decisions, why he suddenly wants to work for this president and has told republicans and democrats alike he will do whatever donald trump tells him to do, no matter what the impact on america's health is. so my colleague, senator cortez masto, pushed him on the antalya issue, the emergency care issue. and what you saw him do was not answer the question because he doesn't know what donald trump's position is on it. so here is bobby kennedy saying that only he can make america healthy. he gave uninformed and kind of word salad answers when it came to basics like how medicaid runs and who it impacts, and then basically said he would abandon his values on reproductive health care in order to have this seat, which also means, by the way, given president trump's orders to freeze federal funding

for health care yesterday, that he will continue to do what president trump says, even if it is very clear that those freezes, for instance, impact nursing home care for our seniors or care for disabled kids or shelter for veterans during the winter. so it was really concerning because this is a man who wants this power more than he cares about his values and how donald trump's agenda will impact people's health. >> he could potentially also have some authority over drugs that are on the market. and one of those drugs is mifepristone. that's what you brought up. this is, you know, some something of a hobby horse. for those who don't believe in the right to abortion, they don't like this drug. and, senator kennedy, i'm sorry, rfk jr was telling you that the president wants him to study mifepristone. you brought up the studies. what else is there? what questions are left on on mifepristone? >> right. the stack of studies i presented today was about this

big. it's 40 different studies that show mifepristone is safe. and what this highlights again, is that robert kennedy doesn't think any science that he doesn't agree with is valid. and so he was in this place of saying to us, well, the president has asked me to study it. what the president is determined to do is continue to rip away fundamental freedom from america's women. and he wants rfk at his side to do it. rfk in exchange for the power that goes with this job, the power to mislead people about essential public health, like the safety and efficacy of vaccines, like the safety and efficacy of mifepristone. he will not support science that doesn't go with his agenda. and, of course, the key to public health, the key to medical progress is using science and learning from it and being willing to abandon certain ideas if the science proves you're wrong. and what rfk jr made

clear today is that he thinks he knows better than america's scientists about how to keep america healthy. he thinks he knows better than nurses and doctors, and that is really troubling. and he told a lot of half truths today that sound compelling. but at the end of the day, this is somebody who is highly uninformed and unprepared and again, willing to sacrifice his values or his judgment to do whatever donald trump tells him to do. >> senator maggie hassan from the great state of new hampshire, thank you very much for joining us. and before we leave you, we want to play just one little bit of sound. this is from senator sheldon whitehouse of rhode island, trying to clarify what exactly a late term abortion is in the state of rhode island. >> i just want to make clear what rhode island ob gyn doctors describe as what is almost always happening when a late term abortion is needed. it is a childbirth gone wrong. the family has painted the room. it

has bought the crib, maybe even decided on the baby's name and has gone to the hospital to welcome the new baby into their family. and what is supposed to be a happy event. and then things went wrong. then the alarm started pinging, the lights started flashing, the medical professionals started rushing in and the question became who lives and who dies? the mom's life is often at risk and she may have other children. she needs to care for. the baby's life may be at risk, and one or both may die in that environment. the doctors and the family own that decision.

government has no place in that room at that point, and i think we need to understand when this late term abortion gets bandied about. what you're dealing with is a tragedy that is happening to a family who wanted that child and have suddenly been confronted with a moment in which they have to make what is probably going to be the worst decision of their lives, and to try to shove the state legislature into that room. is really offensive, really morally wrong. and i just want to make very clear what rhode island ob gyns tell me is the situation when these procedures have to be deployed. >> it's going to do it for me today. deadline. white house starts right now.