more of a methodical recovery. >> have you ever seen anything quite like this? >> no, i have not. you know, i was a military firefighter in the air force. i saw a few jets crash, but nothing on this scale. >> well, thank you so much for joining us tonight. please stay close. we are expecting to get an update from reagan airport within the next few minutes. if you could join us after that, i'm sure we're going to have more questions. thank you so much. >> very good. thank you. stephanie. >> let's take a deep breath together. here i am stephanie ruhle. it is midnight on the east coast, and we are continuing our breaking news coverage of a mid-air collision over our nation's capital city. according to the faa, around 9 p.m. eastern this evening, a regional american airlines jet collided with the us army black hawk helicopter over washington, dc. that flight was coming into washington from wichita, kansas.

now, multiple agencies are part of a search and rescue mission. right now, you are looking at a live picture of the potomac river. the american airlines flight had 60 passengers aboard and four crew members. newly confirmed transportation secretary sean duffy posted on x earlier quote, i have directed the transportation department, faa to provide full support to the ntsb and all responding agencies and authorities. we have also gotten statements earlier this evening from maryland governor wes moore and from president donald trump. i want to bring in katie benner, pulitzer prize winning reporter for the new york times. she is at reagan washington national airport right now. katie, how long have you been there? what are you seeing and hearing? >> you know, i've been here for a couple of hours. and as you can see, the. >> airport behind me is extremely empty. >> i think. >> we're seeing and. >> hearing. >> many of the things. >> you've probably already. >> mentioned to. >> the audience tonight. >> nobody knows. >> why the crash happened. >> but the plane. >> and the helicopter. the

military helicopter it collided with mid-air is in the water and they are in pieces. you have dozens and dozens of search. >> and rescue. >> from all over. >> maryland and virginia. >> racing to the scene. >> to try to see if anyone can be recovered and to collect evidence. plus you have the fbi has just. >> announced. that it is here as. >> well to give. >> general help. >> to the. >> to the investigation piece. of this accident. >> have you ever seen have you ever covered anything like this? i mean, katie, we have not had a fatal plane crash, a commercial aircraft since 2009. have you covered anything. >> like this? >> yeah. >> no, i mean, the. >> new york times has done a lot of investigative stories about how troubled air traffic control and the faa have been. thanks to budget cuts, severe. >> budget cuts. >> and a. >> loss. >> of employees during. >> the pandemic. there just are not. >> enough air traffic controllers right now to do the job. people are. >> working tired. >> people are. working long shifts. >> and overtime. >> and this is not the kind of. >> job where. >> you want people who are not

fresh, aware. >> and ready. and so we're going. >> to be looking. >> through the investigation. >> that's being conducted. >> by multiple. >> agencies to see whether or. not air traffic control. >> had any part in. >> this terrible and horrible tragedy. >> we know there are a lot of agencies responding to this tonight where you are. what have you seen as far as first responders? >> sure. >> i mean, right now, if you are on the george washington parkway, which. sort of hugs. >> the potomac river, you will see dozens and dozens of police. of fire, of. >> water rescue. >> resources all along the river. >> there are also many. >> many passengers, many. >> many civilians pulled over just. >> to watch the rescue effort because it is enormous. >> also. >> interestingly, here at the airport, you have a situation where every plane was grounded. the moment the accident happened, there are still people trapped. >> out on the. >> tarmac in planes. >> and the folks who are coming. >> off their planes. >> right now, you can see some

of them. >> walking around behind me. they're trying to figure out a way to get home. >> there are no. >> airport shuttles here. >> there are no cabs. we're just came down that they're trying to arrange a shuttle bus to take people to an amazon fresh location. in potomac yards, where they. >> where people. >> might potentially be able to get taxis. so there. >> are still people. >> here at the airport. they're just stranded with nowhere to go. while all planes that were supposed to come into the airport are being diverted. to baltimore, maryland, and dulles. >> out in virginia. >> katie, you fly in and out of washington all the time. what was your reaction when you first heard about this? >> i mean. >> i fly in and out of washington in and out of washington on american flights. it's american washington-reagan is a hub for american airlines. it was shocking because of how busy this small airport is. but it was also, unfortunately, i have to say, given how many near misses we've seen at airports around the country, including austin-bergstrom in texas, here

at washington reagan, it wasn't entirely surprising. washington-reagan has had in recent months more near misses than many, many other airports, according to faa's own data. and so, again, this is not something anybody would want to ever imagine could happen. but because of i think, as i mentioned before, problems at the faa and air traffic control, that real, real serious shortage of air traffic controllers, it's we. >> don't know if. >> that contributed, but it certainly makes sense that it would be something that investigators are going to want to pay close attention to. >> katie benner, thank you so much. i want to bring back into the conversation peter alexander, nbc chief white house correspondent. peter, what do we know at this hour? what are you hearing? >> so, stephanie, you want to give you a sense of where we're standing right now. we are on the virginia side of the potomac river. and if i use our camera

and give you a better angle, you can see joint base on the anacostia, anacostia, bolling. right now, that's where there are a ton of emergency vehicles. and those giant spotlights right now, we can't say with certainty where this helicopter had been flying and where it initially had come from, but that is one of the bases where helicopters do take off and land in this area. there has been a ton of emergency activity there, and the emergency activity has been almost like a stream of lights from south to north, all the way up to the national mall, near what's known as hains point. for those in the d.c. area, that's a popular public golf course not far from the washington monument, from the jefferson memorial here as well. so, to give you a better sense, i should give you the idea that we haven't seen some of these helicopters above with the spotlights. excuse me? in about 20 minutes, we saw them just out behind us, flashing these giant lights onto the water, looking to see what debris they might

see, what survivors they might see, doing everything in their power to try to save anybody who may still be in that water, but recognize at this hour the water temperature, we are told, is just above freezing, likely 35 degrees. that means for any survivor who is still in the water, they would have had to survive for more than three hours, which is a very challenging circumstance given the hypothermia, as we understand it could set in within 15, perhaps 30 minutes with temperatures this cold at this hour. but what does provide a bit of hope and a bit of an opportunity for these rescue crews at this time, as i get out of the camera's path right now, is that the temperatures in recent days have thawed here, which meant that giant layer of ice that covered up the potomac river. and i saw it with my own eyes over the course of the last couple of weeks, with temperatures well below freezing, that ice layer has thawed, which made it easier for these divers and these boats to get into this water. to access this waterway, the potomac river. over the course of these last few hours, we're hearing from both the governors of

maryland and virginia that they are sending all of the resources they can to help in this effort. wes moore, the governor of maryland, saying that they had dive teams from the state police on site right now, for others who know the d.c. area, you might be familiar with washington nats park. that's where the washington nationals baseball team plays. it's right adjacent to a bridge that is familiar for the sort of round the round bridge structure there that separates parts of washington, d.c. anacostia. and we know from other journalists with whom we've been speaking who are also here along the water, that they saw some efforts taking place there with boats and dive teams going in from that location. so that gives you a sense of where this is taking place. we're only about three quarters of a mile south of d.c. reagan national airport right now, as you were just hearing from your last guest a matter of moments ago, the airport is going to have no flights in or out until it sounds like at least friday. at

this point, operations are shut down there right now in anticipation of a news conference to take place in the next 20 minutes. but steph, as i hustled over here from our home, which is really not very far away, i travel in and out of reagan airport multiple times a week. it's important to get a sense of just how complex this airspace is, where you have commercial airliners, american airlines, jetblue, delta, all the major airlines flying in and out of dca adjacent to some of the most protected restricted airspace in the country, airspace just on the other side of the potomac that surrounds the nation's capital that surrounds the capitol building itself, the white house as well. and i had the opportunity a few years ago, stephanie, to fly aboard hmx marine one when the president was not in town. it was during the obama administration. it gave you a sense of exactly the proximity between that protected airspace as we flew, flew right by the washington monument and dca. it is very close quarters. and so the hope is that there is good

communication between all the aircraft right now. but certainly the investigation is going to focus on what, if any, communication did exist between the air traffic control towers, this blackhawk helicopter and the american airlines flight that was involved in the crash a short time ago. again, to give you a sense of where we are just south of dca at this hour staff, there are so many people, even after midnight, who have gathered on the banks of the potomac, staring out, looking with their eyes and with their phone cameras in hopes that they may see something, in hopes that there are some survivors stories that come out of this, this, this cruel, grim evening. >> have you seen anything change in the last hour? when we checked in with you, you talked about the approximate 50 divers in the water, all of the boats out there. there was even a call to action from from commercial boats, not even ones that were part of any emergency rescue teams. but in the last hour, have you seen any of these boats dock any, any anything in the in the situation changed from what

you're seeing? >> yeah. >> steph it's a good question. i will say right now, i mean if i just stop talking for a moment, it's almost silent out there with the with the rotors on one helicopter, i think a news helicopter in the distance within the last 30 minutes, i'd say we have no longer seen one of the rescue, search and rescue helicopters flying by with that giant beam of light that was scanning. excuse me? scanning the water for survivors or for debris? we haven't seen them in about 30 minutes right now. we did see some movement on the other side near the national mall of a lot of the rescue and emergency vehicles about a half an hour ago. now they all remain positioned where they are at this time. so there is, you know, from where we are, i got to tell you, there's just not nearly as much activity. it appears on the water right now. but truthfully, we're such a distance away, i can't say with certitude what's going on closer to an area known as the navy yard near nats park, where we believe some of those rescue

efforts, or at least the search efforts were taking place. steph. >> but it does seem like to you, and i understand that you're far away. it does seem like the rescue crews and boats are focused on sort of. that one area on the western bank of the river. is that what you're saying? >> i think that's right. so to give you a sense. right. and you like me and so many people who are joining us right now have flown into dca, i'm sure. and as you come in, you obviously have to come from the south or from the north. you can't come in from the east or from the west. the way that the airport is laid out, you can't come in from the east because you'd be flying over that restricted airspace. so from our understanding, it appears that the plane that was coming in was coming in from the south, as it appears, it appeared to have been flying over or near joint base anacostia-bolling. that's where a lot of those lights we've been showing you are right now. and it appears from our understanding that that's where the collision likely took place. now, recognizing the speeds of an aircraft in its final

descent, they'd still be moving very quickly. so it's potential the potential exists that there is a wide debris field in this water right now. they are the toughest of circumstances because it is literally pitch black without the giant spotlights there. without our camera lights right now, you could barely see in front of you. it is just that dark right now. i can't even see a moon in the sky. this is among the sort of the darkest nights of the month right now, and so this is about as difficult as a search and rescue effort can get happening in the middle of the night with frigid temperatures, water temperatures just above freezing, and a debris field that's certainly very wide. as crews at this time try to get a better understanding of where exactly they need to go and who in particular may be out there to try to save. >> it is pitch black and it is near freezing cold. on the lower right of your screens you can see inside reagan airport they are preparing. in the next few minutes we are going to get a press conference. i want to

leave peter because peter, i'm assuming you are going to head inside for that press conference and i'd like to bring in or oh, before i do. actually, i do want to share this number. if any of you watching at home believe you may have loved ones on board that flight, it was american airlines flight 5342. if you believe you know someone on that flight, you can call american airlines toll free at this number one 800 6798215. i'm going to read it again. if you believe you know someone, if you have a loved one potentially on that flight, it is flight number 5342 american airlines call american airlines toll free at one 806 798215. we have a statement, actually, a video statement from the ceo of

american airlines. i want to show that to you now. >> hello, everyone. i'm robert isom, the ceo of american airlines. i want to brief you. >> on. >> a. serious accident that occurred involving an american eagle aircraft. the aircraft was. operated by psa airlines, which is a. wholly owned subsidiary of american airlines. first, and most. >> importantly. >> i'd like to express our. >> deep sorrow about. >> these events. this is a difficult day for all of us at american airlines, and our efforts now. >> are. >> focused entirely. >> on. >> the needs of our passengers. >> crew members. >> partners, first responders. along with their families and loved ones. i know that there are many questions, and at this early stage. i'll not be able. >> to answer. >> all of them. >> but i do want. >> to share the information i. have at this time. american eagle. flight 5342, operated by psa airlines, a crj 700 aircraft traveling from wichita, kansas.

>> to washington. >> reagan national airport, has been involved in an accident near washington, dc. it appears. >> to. >> have collided. >> with. >> a military aircraft on approach. flight 5342 was under the command. of four crew members and carried 60 passengers. >> for a total. >> of 64 people on board. >> we are. >> actively working with. >> local. state and federal authorities. >> on emergency response. >> efforts. >> and the american. airlines care team has been activated to assist our passengers and their families. >> we're cooperating fully with. >> the national transportation safety board in its investigation, and will continue to provide all the information we can. >> our cooperation. >> is. >> without pause. >> and we want to learn everything we can about today's events. that work will take time. but anything we can do now, we're doing. and right. >> now. >> that means focusing on taking care. >> of all passengers and crew. >> involved. >> as well as. >> their families. members of our go.

>> team will be on. >> their way to washington, dc, and i'll be heading there shortly as well. we know that many people will be. concerned for the welfare of their. loved ones, and we've set up a special helpline. friends and family can call at one (800) 679-8215. that's one (800) 679-8215. if you believe you've had friends or family on board, american eagle flight 5342. we understand. >> and appreciate that people are. >> eager for information. please know that we'll continue to share accurate and timely information as soon as we can. but anything we must report must be accurate. we owe that to everyone involved. our team of highly trained. professionals will be working around. >> the clock to support. >> our. >> passengers, crew and their families. however. >> we can and. >> will. >> update you as soon as we can. thank you. >> that is robert eisen, ceo of american airlines. the flight

from wichita, kansas to dc that was involved in the crash tonight was an american airlines flight, actually, american eagle, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of american air. that flight number was flight 5342. i want to bring back to the conversation oriana pollack, politico aviation reporter. oriana, what's the latest you're hearing? >> yeah, still, investigators are trying to understand the cause of this tragedy. of course, i know. when i came on earlier, i had talked about all of the pinpoints that they're going to be looking into on whether or not the helicopter is at fault or whether it's air traffic control, whether or not the plane, all of these things are going to be a confluence. it could have been a confluence of issues. all of these things are going to be talked about. all of these things are going to be investigated. and, you know, just the looming background of the warning signs that have also just underpinned some of the conversation tonight of, you know, we've heard of shortage of air traffic controllers and

fatigue controllers might come into this conversation, aging equipment at faa facilities that might come into this conversation, as well as just the soaring travel demand that has come back after covid and what investigators and the faa and lawmakers could really do next to make sure that something like this doesn't happen again, whether that's improvement in technologies, whether that's more communication among some of the entities that i just mentioned. i mean, all of this is going to be talked about at length and in depth as everyone continues to study this. >> we are waiting for the press conference inside reagan national airport. what do you expect we're going to learn at this point? what are you listening for? it's very rare that we got such an immediate and swift response, a video response, not just a written statement from the ceo of american airlines. that's something you don't often see, right? >> absolutely. that that actually did take me by surprise that they want to talk about this, of course. and they will update families as soon as they know something as well. but what i'll be listening for in terms

of the press conference or any other details that they can shed light, especially from the tower, the air traffic control tower, what the communications were going on inside there and what, you know, people were talking about before. of course, the alarm bells sounded once that midair crash happened. it will potentially glean some information of, again, who who didn't see something, who didn't say something, and what investigators are going to pinpoint, not only at faa but of course, at the department of transportation, where sean duffy was recently sworn in just this week, who is also monitoring the situation, as we know. and he's going to want to get those details as well as and again, as those airlines are talking about it, you know, robert isom talking about it for american and the military is going to want to be involved as well. so as this cooperation continues, i'm going to be listening for some of the details from all of those facets. >> ariana, thank you. i want to bring in democratic congressman eric swalwell of california. congressman, you landed at dca just before this collision happened. what did you see in

here? >> hey, steph. yeah, i landed on. >> a houston flight. >> i was visiting my parents and it was a few minutes before. and to be honest, this approach we've all been on, it's one of the most beautiful approaches in the world. you see the capital, the monuments, the potomac, mount vernon, and you take it for granted if you do it a bunch of times. and so i landed. i bolted off the plane, went to my car, and only in the car did i hear that the airport was being shut down. and so i didn't see or hear it. but now, you know, my heart beats and breaks for the passengers on that flight. and the first responders who were literally in cold water. and also to just think that these passengers, i mean, they had people waiting for them at the airport to land. that's how close they were on their

approach. it's just awful, you know, to think about it and to process it. >> as somebody who flies in and out of that airport all the time. even before you were a member of congress, you studied at university of maryland. did you ever think you would see a night like this? yes. it is a high traffic area. military aircrafts, commercial aircrafts. but we have not seen a commercial crash in the united states in years. >> no. and, you know, i kind of came up when, you know, obviously september 11th, but also the twa crash and the american airlines crash in rockaway. and what i know from being in government is that we get better after these crashes. and the reason we haven't had a serious crash since that buffalo accident you just referenced is because the national transportation safety board, they impose higher standards in the airlines, take more and more steps. and so we've all been

lulled into this sense of security that, you know, you take off, you land, maybe there's some turbulence, but you never think about something like this happening. >> i am sure you're aware of reports of many, many close calls over the last few years. so were you very surprised when you heard about this tonight? >> well, you know, commuting into the dc area and working here, i see the military training aircraft, the helicopters flying over the potomac. i see the national parks aircraft, i see the dc police. and of course there's four airports. there's bwi in baltimore, there's dulles in virginia, dc. also in virginia. and then of course, andrews air force base. you know, where the president flies out of. so there's a lot of traffic, but it's always de-conflicted. and what i'm interested in learning more about, and i don't want to prejudge this because people are in the water right now looking for victims. is the area too

congested? you know, do we have enough air traffic controllers who have told me personally that they are feeling overwhelmed right now by what they're being asked to do? and by the way, staff dca for 2025 has added gates, you know, to meet the demand to fly in and out. and we want them to be able to do that, but we need it to be done safely. and so that's my job and my colleagues job tomorrow is to make sure we can do it safely. >> that is my next question. what is your next focus in the coming days and weeks? >> how do we do. it safely? because i want every american who gets on a plane tomorrow, next week and the following week, you know, to have confidence that there's not going to be an issue. and we certainly don't want to see a decrease in traffic because people are worried. and so this has to be an anomaly of all anomalies. but you know, right

now i'll just say, you know, as a brother to two first responders, people are in the water right now looking for these victims, and they're going to risk their own lives to try and find a sign of life. and i'm very grateful to anyone who's doing that, because it's pretty cold outside right now, and they're still determined, and i hope they find some. >> that water is about 35 degrees. you know, eric, you said something a moment ago that sort of has me tongue tied that i hadn't thought of yet. you know, that flight from wichita was just about to land. there were potentially people on the ground in their cars at the airport, loved ones waiting to pick up friends or family. many, many people are watching tonight thinking, wondering, worried about their family members. there were 60 people on. there were 60 passengers on that plane, four crew members, at least three people on that black hawk helicopter. what is your

message for americans tonight who are waiting to hear whether their loved ones made it out? >> yeah. i'm sorry this has happened to you. i'm sorry that you're waiting. i know the spirit of our first responders, and they are going to look, and they're going to do everything to risk their own life and maybe not go home tonight so that your loved one can be found and your representatives have a duty to you tomorrow to make sure that you get the answers you need, and that for everyone else who will be traveling, that you're safer when you travel tomorrow and not less safe than when those passengers traveled today. >> congressman eric swalwell, thank you so much for joining us tonight. i'm glad that you are safe on the ground. i want to bring in msnbc contributor jeff casetti. he is a former faa and ntsb investigator. he joined us in the last hour, and he's back with us now. jeff, we've gotten

some additional information. what can you tell us at this point? >> well, yeah, we actually were getting the information is pouring in, just like you would expect. we had the american airlines ceo confirm that it was an american eagle flight 5342, operated by their subsidiary, psa airlines. you have a army blackhawk helicopter. and they collided as that american eagle crj 700 regional jet was on final approach to runway three three. and you can detect you're showing it right now. you can see the light in the center is the is the american eagle flight. and you can see the helicopter translating from left to right, striking it. here's another shot here. you see one airplane taking off from runway three three or runway one. we're not sure. and then there's the airplane behind it landing on runway three three. and then you see the collision occur. there

is we're just starting to get some air traffic control recordings that are being made public. they sound a bit garbled, but it does appear that the faa controller at reagan national airport is communicating with the helicopter and pointing out traffic to the helicopter pilot. so it's really going to be a part of the investigation to determine exactly how these two aircraft came together. the ntsb will be in charge, even though it involved a military helicopter. the law says that if a civilian aircraft is damaged or involved in an accident with a military helicopter or a military aircraft, the ntsb is in charge and the army will work underneath the leadership of the ntsb in the investigation, the army will bring its team of investigators on board to see what flight recorders are on the helicopter. but at this point,

stephanie, the investigation is just beginning, and you can be sure that there's going to be lots of questions regarding congestion around national airport protocols, air traffic control procedures, as well as, you know, whether the pilots of either of these aircraft had a role to play in the accident. i think it's too early to start laying blame. it's going to take a while to sort all of this out. but, you know, you had the congressman on there talking about this airport, which has gotten busier and busier and busier over the years. and perhaps this accident may may mitigate that. >> if you are investigating this tomorrow, what would you want to know first? >> well, i certainly would want to hear the air traffic control recordings, the communications audio communications, which are kept by the faa between the control tower working the

american eagle flight, as well as talking to the helicopter. was it the same controller? were there different controllers? i would also want to see the detailed radar recorded radar hits or ads-b hits showing exactly the speeds of both aircraft and at what angle they may have impacted each other. certainly want to make sure that normal protocols of drug testing, the air traffic controllers, drug testing, any surviving pilots of either aircraft. there's just a whole range of procedures that kick in in the wake of an accident like this, locking down all the data, the maintenance records, combing for witnesses. so but really, we know there was a mid-air collision here. we just need to find out why it occurred. >> jeff, we actually just got some additional air traffic control audio. i want to play

that for us now. and yes, it is most likely a bit garbled, but i'd like you to help us understand what we're hearing. listen in. >> fire command, the accident happened in the river. both the helicopter and the plane crashed in the river. it's east of the approach end of runway three three. it was probably. out in. >> the. >> middle of the river. i just. >> saw a fireball. >> and then it was just gone. >> so i haven't seen. >> anything since they hit the river. but it was a crash and a helicopter that hit, i would say maybe a half mile off the approach end of three three. >> jeff. >> yeah. well, so that that was some communications after the accident occurred, which tells you that it confirms that the mid-air collision occurred a half a mile from the approach end of runway three three, which

is a shorter runway at national airport that kind of points towards the northwest. and the collision occurred while that american eagle flight was on final approach, a half a mile from the runway, probably three, 4 or 500ft above the water. and then it was struck by the helicopter and it landed in the river, just like that, controller said. what will be more important are the control, the communications by air traffic controllers, maybe 1 to 2 minutes before the collision to see what communications were occurring between both aircraft at the time. >> then, given just what we've seen in the video and your experience, how do you think this happened? >> you know, stephanie, i'm, i spent 35 years as an accident investigator for the faa and the ntsb. and one thing i've learned, and it takes some mental discipline to learn, is you just don't want to shoot

from the hip and speculate, because you will always be proven wrong to some degree. it'd be easy to say it was a controller issue or a controller shortage, or it was a poorly trained helicopter pilot, but we just don't know at this point. typically, these accidents occur due to a multiple array of reasons. human factors. they're going to be doing visibility studies. what can you see at night out of a helicopter with the frame of the cockpit? what kind of procedures were in place for this corridor of helicopters moving back and forth? what were some of the organizational concerns, not just on the pilot and or on the air traffic controllers? so we really it's just way too early to tell. i'm very hesitant to speculate on on what went wrong here and who may have failed to do something. >> all right, jeff, well, thank you so much for joining us. hopefully in just a few minutes, we will be getting that press

conference from reagan national airport, and we'd like to check back in with you after that. i want to bring back anthony roman, former commercial pilot and security expert. anthony, as the night goes on, as we're getting bits of more information, what can you tell us now? i know we have some some new information since we talked last. so what sticks out to you? >> well, when the pilot is on the final approach course of the instrument approach, which requires three turns during the descent phase towards the runway, they were exceptionally busy. and when they're that close to the ground, preparing to land on the runway, they're focused on the end of the runway, rarely looking for traffic at that period of time. the copilot is likely looking at the airspeed and altitudes to ensure that the captain is following the proper approach

protocols. the captain is watching the end of the runway, or very much the beginning of the runway, and his touchdown point. it seems likely that it's very, very odd that a helicopter was approved to approach the final approach course during the final descent phase of the landing. he he likely he or she the captain of the jetliner was likely within 600ft above the ground or so, or perhaps lower. it would have been very difficult to have. an evasive maneuver that would avoid that kind of collision. it would seem to me that either the helicopter pilot made a navigational error

crossing the runway, or an air traffic controller made an error in approving the crossing of that runway while there was an aircraft at imminent landing. >> what will you be listening for in this news conference is set to begin in just a few moments. >> well, i'll be listening as to whether or not there were two separate aircraft controllers or one managing both aircraft, it would appear to me that it may be the latter, that there was likely two air traffic controllers controlling these two different aircraft. i can't imagine that the same air traffic controller would approach would approve a helicopter crossing the final approach course during the final phase of the jet landing. i just

can't imagine. >> sources are telling our washington affiliate that the plane split into two pieces. what's your reaction to that? >> i'm not surprised by that. the impact of a black hawk helicopter, either in the side of the crash or underneath it, can easily cause a destruction of the frame of the aircraft. as you can see from the explosion, there was an ignition, a massive explosion at the time they collided. and that type of explosive capability can can absolutely destroy the aircraft and make it impossible to save it. during the final phase. >> the investigation that will obviously begin tomorrow. what do you think the first thing they will be looking for is, and how long do these investigations last? because certainly people have so many questions and are going to want answers.

>> the investigations can last a year or more. they are methodical. there are many engineers and specialists that examine different segments of each aircraft. they, of course, will be listening to all of the air traffic control communications. the flight plans filed by both aircraft, and whether or not there was any malfunction in any of the equipment of either aircraft, or whether or not the communications reflect there was pilot error on one of the crafts or another. so those would be the primary elements. >> all right, anthony, thank you so much. i want to bring back katie benner, pulitzer prize winning reporter for the new york times. she is at reagan washington national airport. katie, you're just standing a few feet away from this press conference. we're expecting it

any moment. what are you going to be listening for? >> you know, we were told that they're going to send down somebody from the rescue effort that could be fire. that could be police. we're not sure yet. it is running a little bit late. i think that they're just there are so many people dedicated right now to the investigation effort that they are running a bit behind. we're hoping to hear an update on survivors. we're not sure whether or not we'll get that information. we'll probably hear numbers. who is who is working on the rescue numbers of rescue workers? how many folks have come in from different towns, etc? but again, i think that the one question on everybody's mind is, are there survivors? >> what is the environment like there where you are? i mean, i know when you last spoke, you said to me, obviously all planes are grounded. there were still some on the tarmac figuring how they were getting off. is the airport filled with reporters at this point? first responders explain to us, set the scene.

>> sure, sure. so it is the environment at the airport is incredibly eerie. it is completely quiet. there are a few workers. the airport is open all night, even though there are no planes coming in and out. there are scores of reporters. most of us are in terminal one right now, sort of cordoned off, but the rest of the airport is. it's very, very eerie. every once in a while, you'll see a first responder walk by and everybody is very somber because people are awaiting news about loved ones. people are awaiting news about survivors. and also there are a lot of people on the ground making calls trying to understand how the crash happened. as the previous guest mentioned, these sorts of crash accidents take months, if not years to determine all of the causes, but in part because this involved a military helicopter. i think that people are very curious about what happened to that pilot, what was going on, and whether or not, you know, the plane itself didn't know

that that pilot was there because they were not in the airspace they were supposed to be in. >> all right. katie benner, thank you. normally when i introduce my next guest, i'm happy to do it. he is my dear friend and partner here at msnbc, but not tonight when i sign off at 1 a.m, ali velshi will be picking up breaking coverage. but, ali, i wanted you to join us now because little known ali velshi, you too are a pilot. >> yeah. this is this hits hard. you know, your previous guest was talking about the fact. sorry, my, my, my mic might not be on. we'll just check if it is or not. your prior guest was talking about the fact that when you when you're flying a plane, you're landing a plane. the most dangerous parts of flying are the beginning and the end. takeoff and landing. that's where most things go wrong. so nobody's casual about it. when you're landing your your eyes are on the front of that runway where you're going to land and how long that runway is. so if anything goes wrong, you're ready for it. so the idea that another plane's in the area, it's not it's not unheard of.

i've been on planes. maybe you have two where you're coming in for a landing, and you'll suddenly feel the plane surge because something's on the runway. and that pilot has made that decision at the last minute to get out of the way. because there's a lot of traffic, a lot of planes. they don't move around as much. this sounds like something entirely different by virtue of the fact that it's a mid-air collision. right as this plane is getting ready to land, it's a very unusual situation. pilots are trained to fly the plane all the way down, even if it's crashed. remember sully, right? he. the point is, you do not give up flying a plane until there's no more. there's nothing else under you. so the idea that this this plane somehow got destroyed right before it landed means that something very, very unusual and unexpected has happened. usually, as your guests have been saying, that's an air traffic control issue. remember, this is one of the hardest jobs out there. >> explain this to us. right. people often air traffic controller. it's certainly a job we take for granted and don't think. >> about because you that that person is managing personalities, planes, looking

visually and trying to direct everybody. in a world where there's increasing traffic all the time. so they have to they maintain the minimum separation between aircraft, minimum altitude, between the minimum distance between them. it's a crazy hard job. and the idea that this would happen, your last guest said, were the two air traffic controllers were the two people giving different people instructions. what happened here? that one aircraft would crash into another in that place? we've seen it happen on the ground. you've seen it at airports, you've seen planes touch wings, things like that. but this kind of thing is, is the thing all pilots live in fear of, right? that something's going to happen that you can't plan for. you plan for your entire trip. and they made their entire trip from wichita to washington. and just as they're about to land, something goes very, very wrong. as you said, it's very cold, that water is very cold. >> and it was just a routine training operation for the black hawk helicopter tonight. how unusual, though, is that to be in that airspace. right. which is already congested with

commercial aircrafts but also military. >> and military and the aircraft over washington is a special. restricted zone. so it's as complicated as any other airport is. that airport. and that area is three times as complicated as things. and by the way, the black hawk exists in many variants, almost all of which are military. so it's got quite an accident record. but that's because they're generally always in high risk situations. this isn't a high risk situation. this is a high traffic situation. so that's where i think people's attention is going to be. there's only i think that last time a plane went into the potomac, it was in the 80s, as i recall, also a cold, cold winter night. but that plane clipped the 14th street bridge because when you go into national airport, you take a turn. it's a very. anybody who's done it a lot is familiar with it, but it's a turn that gets you very close to a bridge. in some cases, that plane clipped the bridge and went down. it was 1982 that that happened. this wasn't that case.

this was what's called an instrument approach. >> say that again. a what? >> an instrument approach, which means that a larger planes with more sophisticated equipment, they're not flying a plane the way i would fly a plane where i've got to say, everything's got to be visual and i've got to see it. they're flying it with, with with equipment that tells them, are they on the right angle? are they doing the right thing? but every pilot is still flying the plane in at the last moment. that's that's part of flying, right? you are. you are making sure that what your instrumentation is telling you is also what you see to be the case. again, if this helicopter was around them somewhere, there's no way they can they can see that you're in a plane, you've got headphones on. perhaps if you're you're in the cockpit, there's a lot of noise. you can't really tell. there's a helicopter. we can tell if there's a helicopter 15ft above us here in manhattan, because you hear the thumping of the rotors. this is an unusual situation that a military chopper, this doesn't happen much, let's put it that way. and that's the good thing. first of all, these accidents don't happen much in the united states to start with. >> near misses, though. >> near misses happened much

more than you think they do. but again, that's a traffic issue more often than it's anything else. it's this idea that there are so many flights a day in america that there's pressure on the air traffic controllers and the airports and the airlines to take off and land as many as possible, which means airplanes are closer to each other, they're in closer proximity. they're not as they're not as separated. you know, these days, everybody who flies complains about all the turbulence out there. the reason you're getting more turbulence is there's more traffic and these pilots can't move to another altitude because they because it's a safety thing. there's another plane 1000ft above them or 1000ft below them. so maintaining the ability for an aircraft to come in for a landing at a busy airport, in busy airspace that has military activity and restricted activity around it, in a tense situation where the military is sort of hyper vigilant, maybe more than one thing went wrong here. >> but then given all of that and clearly we don't know what happened, we. >> do not. >> know and we have not. >> seen, we do. >> not know, a commercial crash of this kind of magnitude since

2009. >> no. >> this is it's shortly after 9 p.m. tonight. you see this as a pilot, as a reporter who's covered so many things. what is your first reaction? >> well, i always check two things. what's the aircraft and what's its record? this is what's called a crj 700 crjs canadair regional jet. it's one of sort of two major types of small jets that operate under the banner of american airlines. sometimes united, sometimes delta. this is about a 70 seater. there were 60 people on board and four crew. very efficient jets to get into small airports. they don't need a ton of runway. it's a pretty safe plane. this doesn't happen much. it was it was run by canadair, which became bombardier. now they're made by mitsubishi. but this one would have been made by bombardier because it's a brand new thing. it's only the last couple of years mitsubishi has been making them. but the plane was first invented in 1999. so it's not an old plane. it's got a pretty good safety record. these are not what you call mainline aircraft. so it's not the main air canada american airlines aircraft. this will be a subsidiary. >> these are american eagle.

>> american eagle correct. run by psa. but but in america you have to be very well trained to be a commercial pilot. you have to spend a lot of time flying cargo around or doing other things before you get to take the controls of a commercial airliner. that's why they're so safe. other countries have accidents in similar planes because training is not as good. american pilot training is one of the finest in the world, and we have had some accidents where we've we've pinned it down to pilot training, but this doesn't feel like that sort of thing. again, we don't know. and i guarantee you will find out because we'll have information on the black boxes of both of those planes. it is in seven feet of water, which is not good, but it's retrievable, which means at least we will find out what happened. you've seen some air traffic control delayed conversation. we'll get the live conversation as well, so we'll know exactly what happened. that's not a lot of help to the people and the families of those who are in that water. and hopefully some are going to get out. and it breaks my heart when i see this thing. this is as routine a

flight as it gets. wichita to dc. this is people fly between two cities thousands of times a day uneventfully, expecting nothing. >> to happen. they are likely friends or family members already at the airport. >> yes, you're. >> on your phone by that point. >> when you're when you're when you're when you're landing at that point, they tell you you're not supposed to be, but you're on your phone. >> you're coming. >> in. >> you're checking things. the passenger is often not at the height of attention at that point, because as far as you're concerned, the trip is over. important to note that for a pilot, that is one of the riskiest moments in a flight, we just have been conditioned not to think about that, because what are you going to do? >> no, we're thinking about can i stand up yet? >> yes, correct. that's exactly right. and this is a dangerous leg of flight. but in america recently, we do not have a history of these kinds of problems. the only similar thing is when a pilot pulls up at the last minute, because they visually see something on the ground, or an air traffic controller says, there's a there's a plane crossing your path, pull up and go. it's called a go round. so you go up

and you you take another circle around. we have no idea whether these pilots had any preparation or even knew that there was a helicopter coming for them. >> were you surprised when you saw that video statement from the ceo of american airlines? i thought of it because just a moment ago you said, we really don't know anything yet. and usually when information is so limited, they wait, they wait, you know, for all sorts of legal reasons and safety reasons. they wait. yeah. was it not surprising to you to see that ceo stand up, share all the information that he could talk about the airplanes? he is now on his way to dc. that's not something we normally see. >> i would agree with you. that is not something you might see that tomorrow afternoon at the earliest normally. so for that to happen, i think two things may be going on. one is that american airlines is a big company, and they're going to be a whole lot of people trying to figure out whether their flights are canceled in the morning and where they should go, and whether it's safe to fly and what their policies are. the

other thing is, he may believe that he's got enough information here to feel fairly confident that that his his pilots didn't do something wrong. now, again, that's impossible for us to all know. at this point, we will 100% know what happened. it's early to tell. he may have more information than we have about what actually happened here. the visuals. when you look at the video of the impact, it does appear that the plane was on its approach to runway 33, which is 33, is always the number of the compass dial. so that means it's about 330 degrees. that runway is facing northwest. he was coming in for a landing and something looks like it hit the plane. and so i think that maybe gives americans some confidence in being able to say, this is terrible, but we don't think we've got an airline problem. remember, this is a few years we've had where doors fly off, airplanes and planes get grounded, and things that didn't seem to be his concern right now. there's a problem with the crj, and i've spent a lot of time in the last hour just going

back over the crj 700 to see if there's any potential signal that there's some kind of a problem. i haven't been able to find anything. it's a pretty safe plane. >> ntsb is now on the scene. i want to bring jeff mason into the conversation. white house correspondent for reuters. jeff, in a statement on truth social, president trump's social media site, he appeared to blame the control tower and said, quote, this is a bad situation that looks like it should have been prevented. not good. what else are we hearing from the administration? we know the new transportation secretary, sean duffy, who was just sworn in a few hours ago, is on the ground. >> yeah. >> i don't have a whole lot to report from the administration. you're right to read the post, stef, that the president wrote or put out earlier, caroline leavitt, his press secretary, also addressed the issue a little bit earlier in the evening. right now, it looks like the president is already

placing a little bit of blame, obviously, before the results of the investigation come out. and as you know, the crash site right behind me here is still being being worked on. >> ali, when you talk about jeff, stay with us. ali velshi is with you. when you think about the systems on a black hawk helicopter, and i know you're not a helicopter pilot versus a commercial aircraft, how different are they? >> well, to fly them, they're entirely different. the helicopter has an entirely different access. it's far more complicated to be a helicopter pilot than to be a fixed wing pilot. but one of your prior guests was talking about ads-b. all all modern aircraft have. it's a it's a signaling system. so every airplane now has to send out a signal that can be read by every other airplane. so as long as you're not flying an antique airplane which doesn't have electronics in it, you you should be able to determine that there's an aircraft close to you coming in or going out, which suggests to me whatever happened

happened fast, because you would know that there's an aircraft in your proximity. >> ali, the presser is starting right now at reagan national airport. let's listen in. mayor muriel. >> bowser of washington. >> so okay. >> i want to in the back. back to the. >> muriel bowser. i'm the mayor. >> of washington, d.c. i'm at reagan national airport. i am joined by united states transportation secretary sean. >> duffy. >> united states senator jim moran, senator roger marshall, jack potter, the ceo of the metropolitan washington airports authority. we are here to brief you on the very tragic events of

this evening where we know a passenger plane coming to the airport here collided with a military helicopter. our fire department, dc fire and ems, supported by fire departments and police departments from across the washington metropolitan region, are executing a rescue operation in the potomac river. they are working diligently and very dark and cold conditions. cold water to execute this rescue operation, we have had the opportunity to be briefed by american airlines officials. i'm told that american airlines leadership is on the way to washington as well, and officials are in the airport

talking to families. now, we do have a18 hundred number where families should contact us. excuse me, should contact american airlines for more information, and we will be providing that information shortly. i am going to turn to a number of officials to provide as much information as we can this evening, and we expect to have more frequent briefings at daylight. so with that, i'm going to turn to secretary duffy. >> thank you, mayor bowser. >> i think for. >> all. >> of us, we want to extend. >> our thoughts and. >> prayers to. those individuals. >> who are. >> impacted by. >> the. >> events tonight. their families. we know this is a. >> very difficult. >> time for all of them. i want to join. >> the. >> mayor and everyone here. to extend our thank you to the first responders, who again, in

very difficult. >> situations and. >> environments are out. >> there searching. >> and attempting a rescue. >> tonight, i. spoke with. >> president trump. and his team in the situation room. >> i had a conversation with secretary pete hegseth. >> as well. >> and then. >> with the. >> kansas delegation and the mayor. and others. >> in leadership, as well as governor youngkin. >> from virginia. >> and governor. >> kelly from. >> kansas, from the department of transportation and faa perspective, we are. going to offer full support to those on the ground, to the. >> mayor. >> but also to the ntsb, who is going to be conducting the investigation in this matter. we are going to provide all the support that's necessary. mayor. thank you. >> so with that, i want to ask chief john donnelly from d.c. fire and ems to provide an update.

>> good evening everyone. i'm john donnelly, chief of dc fire and ems. this evening at 848, an alert was sounded, initiating a region, a large regional response to a report of an aircraft crash on approach to the airport. this response includes, first, the metropolitan washington airports authority fire department, the district of columbia fire department, the metropolitan police department, and the u.s. park police to respond into the area and to sort that out. at 858, the first units arrived on the scene and found an aircraft in the water and began rescue operations. this incident has grown. there's currently about 300 responders working. we have boats from all throughout the region, police and fire boats. we have a mutual aid agreement in washington dc, the national capital region mutual aid agreement administered by the metropolitan washington council of governments. and we are all

operating under that. we're operating under unified command. all everybody's together. so we also have requested state police helicopters from maryland. and the coast guard helicopter is working. so this is a state and federal response as well. u.s. coast guard's got some boats in the water as well. so it's a highly complex operation. the conditions out there are extremely rough for the responders. it's cold they're dealing with relatively windy conditions. the wind is hard out on the river. so they're out there working. we're keeping doing everything we can to keep them safe. and with that, i'm going to turn it back to the mayor. >> thank you. >> in. chief bonnet from ny. >> i'm rick howlett, fire chief of ny fire and rescue. our unit, as chief donnelly alluded to at 2048, we received a alert from the faa tower of an aircraft

incident. involving a commercial aircraft and a helicopter. our units immediately responded. >> and. >> deployed three boats and immediately called for mutual aid resources. again. as chief donnelly said, this is an active operation that's going to last many hours as we continue to work through recovery efforts and rescue operations. this will be ongoing for quite a while. our thoughts and prayers are with the families and our communities, and we appreciate all the support to our agency and our federal partners. >> so with that, i wanted to turn to the senators who are from kansas, who wanted to say a few words first senator moran and then senator marshall. >> mayor, thank you. and, mr. secretary, thank you. and to our. >> first responders. >> thank you very much for all that's taking place here. i'm jerry moran, i'm a united states senator from.

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