trying to be political here, but the information that came out were, were, were it was not accurate. it undermined the honesty of the investigation. and i've never seen something like this where a government official circumvented the time honored tradition of aircraft accident investigation. and, you know, just personally, i think it's appalling that these comments, political comments were being made in the wake of a tragedy like this. >> aaron gilchrist and jeff guzzetti, thank you both so very much. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. ana cabrera picks up more coverage right now. >> hello, i'm ana cabrera in for andrea mitchell, who is on assignment. and we begin with that breaking news, the massive recovery. mission underway after last night's horrific midair crash over the potomac river. it is believed there are no survivors after an army blackhawk helicopter on a

routine training flight collided with a regional passenger jet from wichita, kansas, just moments ago. you saw it here live. >> president trump. >> holding a briefing with his new transportation and defense secretaries, initially leading the nation in mourning. >> as one nation, we grieve for every precious soul that has been taken from us so suddenly, and we are a country of really, we are in mourning. this is really shaken. a lot of people. >> the president. went on. >> to claim die policies could have contributed to the crash. so far, the bodies of at least 28 passengers and crew have been received by the dc medical examiner, including one of the three soldiers aboard that military flight. in all, 67 people are. >> believed dead. including several young. >> american figure skaters. their family members and coaches returning from a training camp in kansas, russian state media

says. two russian world champions were also on the plane. we are now some 15 hours or so since the dive teams first entered the frigid river, battling strong winds and currents and floating chunks of ice, the black boxes are still somewhere in that waist deep water, and officials say the passenger jet is now in three sections. it was just seconds away from landing at reagan washington national airport when this crash occurred. runways there have just reopened for the first flights since this tragedy. our chris jansing is along the river. yamiche alcindor at the white house, also with us, retired american airlines captain and senior contributor at flying magazine, lisa bend and nbc news aviation analyst john brooks, whose 30 year career at us airways focused on flight safety, both of whom have flown airplanes into. that airport. they've also helmed helicopters as well. captain cox, let me start with you, because we are obviously in the middle of this crisis,

bodies are still being pulled out of the water. the investigation is just getting going. we hear the president say die policies may have contributed. >> to this. >> what's your reaction to what we just heard in that press conference, press conference. >> that bluntly, i think there's no foundation, in fact, for a statement like that. one thing that has to be remembered is that there are standards for everyone in aviation, notably in a safety critical position, be it pilots, be it flight attendants, be it dispatchers, be it air traffic controllers. so the standards have never changed. and to allege that somehow these pilots were substandard or the controllers were substandard without any evidence of that, i think is at the minimum, it's very premature and it's without foundation of fact. it is contrary to

everything that worldwide accident investigation protocols and processes demand. we look for objective information and we look to determine facts. and that that allegation of some reference to die does not have, at this point any facts underneath it to support such a statement. >> yamiche, you were listening in. you have covered washington for many, many years as you were listening. do we know what the president was trying to accomplish and what stood out to you? >> well, it was striking. the president started off by being a consoler in chief, talking about the fact that he wanted to take a moment of silence for these families whose loved ones, as you said, are still being pulled from the potomac river as we speak. but then he made a hard pivot, and that hard pivot was to attacking democrats, attacking diversity, equity and inclusion programs, attacking president, former president obama and former president

biden, as well as the former secretary of transportation, pete buttigieg. and i think it really is striking that president trump said that the way that he came to the idea that diversity had something to do with this was because he has, quote, common sense. he was asked directly, do you have any evidence that shows that diversity programs led to this crash or contributed in any way? and he didn't give any evidence. all he said was that common sense led him to believe this. now, we know that the president, when he was campaigning as well as his first few weeks of his presidency, that he's made attacking diversity, equity, inclusion programs a key part of his administration. and he made it a key part of his campaign. but i think in this moment, there's still a lot of questions of why he came to that, even though he's saying it's because of common sense. so i think there are a lot of people that i'm now in touch with who are frankly, very surprised that the president went there, that the president talked about this. we still don't know very much about why this crash happened, or the sort of identities of the pilots

here. so i think it just begs the question that there are a lot of questions that need to be answered here. and president trump, frankly, a lot of people are seeing that he wasn't giving a lot of answers. in fact, he was just sort of going back to the things that he's gone to on culture war issues, diversity issues. and in a moment where i think a lot of the nation was waiting for him to give more concrete answers. ana. >> chris, you were there at the river. what can you tell us about the recovery efforts and what's happening right now as far as multiple agencies all trying to coordinate a response? >> and it is. >> multiple agencies. >> and the divers. are in the water. that's the latest we heard on. and in fact, one official said that. >> this is the largest recovery. >> effort of its kind. >> that they. >> have seen in. decades in the washington, dc area. and to say that it has been challenging over the. last 15 hours would be an understatement. but obviously they have. >> a. >> goal and they have a determination to. >> recover all. >> 67 bodies. >> we learned earlier today.

that from that plane, they have. recovered 27 of the 64 people. and on the. >> helicopter. >> one of the three people. but it all started last night when an alert call came in at 8:48 p.m. they realized very. quickly that out on the waters of the potomac, there had indeed been a crash. and you can see i'm just across the street from, first of all, where you see that white building that is d.c. national airport. and then beyond that is the potomac. it is over there where the crash occurred. what divers found yesterday, last night among the 300 emergency responders, ice. there have been a series of very cold days here in washington, d.c. it was the waters were icy. the water itself was very cold. dealing with that would have been enough. but gusty winds and of course pitch black at that time of night. but they have been in

the water all night long since then, trying to do recovery. in addition to that, today they have already set up a recovery center to receive the remains of the bodies that have been found. boats and ambulances were seen arriving on the scene. there are red tents that are set up kind of a temporary morgue. both the medical examiners from the state of virginia, as well as the army medical examiners, are on scene, but no full manifest has been released yet with all the names of the people who have died. but you mentioned this at the top, anna, that among those who were on board were members of the figure skating usa figure skating. there had been the national championships in wichita, followed by a training program. it's a very prestigious thing for a young skater to be involved as a young person in this training program. they were there, many with their parents, some with their coaches. the

tragedy compounding tragedy. i can tell you, while there is mourning for all 67 of the people on board, the skating community is very close. one, they lead lives that are unique. going to the skating rink with mom or dad at 5:00 in the morning, traveling the world sometimes for competitions, yes, competitors, but also friends because they're in a situation that very few people their age can know. and i've spoken to someone inside the figure skating community and not surprisingly, the devastation is being felt in a very, very deep way. there were very young people on board. in fact, the boston figure skating club did hold a press conference this morning and say that they had members on board that who were teenagers. so as we wait for the manifest, we also wait to see what is happening in the cold and icy waters of the potomac. as those divers continue their

very difficult and emotionally challenging work. anna. >> chris jansing, thank you for reporting again. live from the potomac river. and we see these images next to you of what appears to be parts of the plane sticking out from the water. we were told earlier at the 730 press conference that the plane had broken into three pieces, was inverted in the water. again, the water is frigid cold. there's ice there as well. so there's the recovery operation. and then, of course, there's the investigation into what went wrong. les abend, they have not yet recovered as far as we know. the black boxes from that aircraft at this point, we all by now have probably seen the video that was captured from afar of the plane trying to land, and then the fireball that ultimately is a result of this crash. i'm wondering what your you're hoping to learn when they do get a hold of those black boxes. >> well. >> let me. >> say this. >> this hits close to home for me. this the 43 years ago. i was

there the day after air florida crashed. this month actually. 43 years ago. so seeing airplane pieces in the water is something, you know, that stays with you forever. but in answer to your question, ana, yeah, as soon as this becomes a, you know, they they stop with the search and recovery effort that the first thing they're going to address is getting to that cockpit or to the tail of the airplane to recover those cockpit voice recorders and that flight, digital flight data recorders. and we're going to find out what happens. i do want to address and echo in a way captain cox that was on just a little bit earlier, is that one of the most qualified. >> and highly skilled. >> controllers we. have. >> at washington? they are amazing people. it is challenging for pilots. it is challenging for controllers to keep up with the traffic that's there, but hopefully we'll find

out where this mistake was made. remember, we're adding in. >> a recipe. >> into the recipe nighttime operation that all these lights become light pollution. so finding a helicopter for this particular airline crew that's been focusing for 80 miles out, that's that's when the arrival about starts 80 miles out. on a very challenging type of approach that they have to have their attention to see those lights. of a helicopter within all the other lights. we know how congested dc is. it's a challenging situation. so we may we may find the answer somehow through all of the data that we. >> get. >> we have reporting that the air traffic controller was indeed in touch with the helicopter pilot and asked if that pilot saw the airplane and then then directed that that pilot to maneuver behind the airplane. at this press conference, the president seemed

careful not to cast blame on any individual at this point, but did imply at least that the person in the helicopter should have been able to do a quick maneuver. let's take a listen to that. >> you had a pilot problem from the standpoint of the helicopter. it had the ability to go up or down. it had the ability to turn, and the turn it made was not the correct turn. obviously. and it did somewhat the opposite of what it was told. we don't know that that would have been the difference because the timing was so tight. it was so it was so little. there was so little time to think. but what you did have is you had vision. the helicopter had vision of the plane. >> captain cox, you've been behind the wheel or the controls of both planes and helicopters. what are your thoughts on what we just heard? >> i think that you have to

recognize what the limitations are for the jet. they're in a landing configuration. they're focused on the runway. they're focused on being on the right vertical path. and so that's that's where their attention is going to be. this is a routine operation to circle to runway three three. the helicopter is on a predetermined route that they have flown many, many, many times. so now the question is what was the track of the helicopter? and to for someone that is not an aviation expert to suddenly say that the helicopter could do this or could do that, it may have that maneuver capability, but recognize that their airspace limitations. as an example, the helicopter is limited to 200ft above the ground in that environment, specifically to deconflict it with traffic landing at reagan national. so i

think that any conjecture, any speculation at this point by anyone is premature. let's let the investigators do their job. let's be patient. let's get the right answers and not be focused on getting a fast answer less. >> my understanding is commercial planes have near collision alert systems. if that system goes off, there's an alert. how quickly can a pilot react? >> immediately. >> and it depends upon, you know, how quickly that that alert occurs. but that being. >> said, these alerts. are muted below. certain altitudes. >> and this may have that the airplane may have been at an altitude where it was muted because, as captain cox has indicated, this was this is a routine operation. however, these pilots are intensely focusing on getting to that runway. so all of these alerts can possibly be downgraded to a

point so you can focus on the job at hand, which is landing the aircraft. >> we've all seen the video and i want to pull that back, because that is perhaps the biggest clue we all have at this point, and what investigators are working with and what the president has commented on in what we just heard at that news conference, as well as an overnight post that came shortly after midnight, in which he he asked a question i think a lot of americans are wondering, he says it was a clear night. lights on the plane were blazin, and he, in his words, said, this is a bad situation that looks like it should have been prevented. captain cox, do you think this should have been prevented? do you think his observations are accurate? >> i think that there's there is likelihood of some type of process breakdown. we don't know exactly what yet. the helicopter crew was wearing night vision goggles. they're are they're wonderful devices that they do wonderful things, but they also bring limitations with them. was

that a contributor? these are things that ntsb will be asking. so the flight track of the jet looks to be very, very, very typical. was the helicopter at the proper altitude. and then was it on the proper track? ntsb will get those answers. they're going to interview the air traffic controllers. they will look at the radar tapes. all of these things take time. is this preventable? once we understand what broke down here, then we can look at what state, what steps have to be taken to avoid it in the future. but until we understand the breakdown, it's very it's premature to say blatantly that it's preventable. although reagan national airport has enjoyed a very good safety record for decades. so the processes work. what failed last night is the question. >> and less air traffic control. ask the chopper pilot if they could see the plane and then reportedly again directed this

helicopter to pass behind the plane. how standard is that kind of communication and maneuvering, especially going into this airport, which i understand is very tricky and just, i guess, how how considerable are the blind spots for pilots? >> well. >> it's a. >> helicopter and a, you know, in a regional jet, there are some visibility restrictions with that. but that being said, in the first part of your question is that, you know, it's. >> it can it. >> can be seen. >> but what. >> it's possible the. >> helicopter pilot may have another aircraft in sight, may have been focusing on something else. we don't know. but once again, it's difficult to totally discern something. he it's possible that that helicopter and this. >> is pure. >> speculation that that helicopter pilot may have identified the wrong aircraft. pure speculation. >> we also heard president trump

offer critical thoughts about how long investigations can take. and i want to bring in our senior news correspondent, tom costello on this, who covers aviation as well. explain, tom, why the investigations can take so long and what we know about the current investigation underway. >> the ntsb is already on the scene. they were here immediately after this crash last night. once they have once firefighters and rescue teams have recovered the victims from the water and stabilized the wreckage, the ntsb will begin and will take ownership of this investigation. that's according to us law. and their their priority is going to be and is now to preserve the perishable evidence. in other words, those things that they could lose if they don't act quickly. so, for example, they need to gather as much evidence out of the out of the water as possible before that stream might carry it further down river. they need to

get the black boxes out of the chopper, presumably also out of the rj, the regional jet. they need to interview the air traffic controllers. they want to do that soon because of course they don't want too much time to lapse. they want to keep it fresh in their minds, and then they will have military investigators involved. they'll interview everybody on the military side who might have been involved in this flight. so this is a very long and involved process involving really exhaustive analysis and forensic evaluations. all of that takes time. and typically the ntsb will take about a year before they come up with a final conclusion based on the evidence, based on the evidence. and the ntsb will admonish parties to the investigation to keep their mouths shut. do not engage in any sort of speculation about what a what might have caused a crash. who are the parties to the investigation? clearly both the airline also the military, also the fire department that

responded. i mean it's a very broad list, right? even the pilots union, the flight attendants union, it's a long list and including air traffic controllers, the ntsb wants to preserve the integrity of that of the investigation so that nobody is tainted by somebody else's opinion. it's a little concerning that the president has suggested that the pilots might be responsible already, and also suggested that somehow, you know, these diversity programs at air traffic control might have led to somebody in the control tower who wasn't up to the job. that will be very difficult for the, i would assume, for the air traffic controller unions to hear about that. and as well, people in the military to hear already speculation that the pilots in the chopper are to blame. listen, we simply don't know. and as you know, this is a long, exhaustive process that takes time to play out. but by law, the ntsb is an independent organization because they want to shield them from any sort of

political influence. and so now they've they've got a very difficult investigation. the biggest investigation, certainly in terms of a fatal plane crash in america in 15 years. >> tom, speaking of the role of. air traffic controllers here, what do we know about the qualifications and experience needed for that job? >> i can't give you the exact requirements to be in this control tower here at reagan national. as you know, the there there's a shortage right now of 10,000 air traffic controllers nationwide, the faa for years. and by the way, the shortage of controllers goes back years, right. the faa has been trying to hire as many new controllers as possible and veteran military controllers to put them through the channel and get them into control towers and radar facilities nationwide. they are maxing out the academy classes every year and trying to also encourage people who are perhaps

students at college degree programs for air traffic control around the country. so they've really been trying to broaden the base to get as many controllers in as possible. with the shortage of 10,000 controllers. but you don't graduate from the academy in oklahoma city and suddenly, usually suddenly show up in the control tower at jfk, for example, at laguardia or even reagan national, right. typically you need to get some some years and some experience under your belt, and there is exhaustive training in the control tower itself. once you do get a new assigned controller in the space. but controllers nationwide, as we have been reporting for years, have also been working very long weeks, lots of overtime because of the shortage of controllers. >> and yamiche, president trump did a lot of finger pointing in that press conference placing blame on the biden administration from some actions it took. i understand pete buttigieg, the former transportation secretary, just tweeted, how is he reacting? >> that's right. the former

secretary for the transportation department is reacting. he posted a message online. i want to read part of it to you, he wrote. despicable as families grieve, trump should be leading, not lying. we put safety first. drove down close calls, grew air traffic control and had zero commercial airline crash fatalities out of millions of flights on our watch, president trump now oversees the military and the faa. one of his first acts was to fire and suspend some of the key personnel who helped keep our skies safe. time for the president to show actual leadership and explain what he will do to prevent this from happening again. so that was pete buttigieg reacting directly to president trump, who attacked him in that briefing. and i have to read part of what president trump said because he said he was a disaster. talking about pete buttigieg. he said he was ran things into the ground, that he ran things and that things were terrible as he was there. he also used an expletive that i won't repeat here, but he called said bs, talking about the leadership of pete buttigieg. so

pete buttigieg here reacting and wasting no time pushing back on donald trump, pushing, forcing and blaming him, as well as diversity programs in die for this plane crash. again, we don't know why this collision happened, but pete buttigieg there defending his tenure as secretary of transportation and going after president trump, saying he needs to show more leadership on us. >> and less as far as we know, the airport is back open. accepting flights coming and going. would you expect, because of this accident, any immediate changes there at the airport or to routes going forward? >> honestly, no, i wouldn't at this point. i mean, because we don't the ntsb, this is their this is their show right now and there's nothing they're compiling data. so and trying to figure out the cause of this particular accident and doing it very methodically as they do. matter of fact, that should have been their press conference to discuss this. and they won't do it until they've got great information. but no, in answer

to your question on that, i don't think there's going to be anything changed. unless the facility perhaps does a longer lengthened trail. in other words, behind each airplane is longer than it than it has been. it's hard to say, but i don't think they're going to change policy. >> and let's just quickly, if you will, should americans feel comfortable flying right now. >> you got the best and qualified people out there in the united states that are that are sitting in the cockpits and you've got the best qualified controllers, especially at at reagan national airport. >> and john cox, sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt you. please finish. >> it's okay. >> it's okay. >> i'm just saying that they are the best in the world and people should feel comfortable flying. >> less the bend and john cox, tom costello and yamiche alcindor, thank you all for that conversation, for the reporting. we'll have much more on the

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find out how to pre-order and get the new samsung galaxy s25+ on us with a qualifying trade in. call, click or visit an xfinity store today. 1-888-246-2612 or visit homeserve. com. >> we are back with the breaking news about a deadly plane crash and helicopter collision in washington, dc. 67 people believed dead and a recovery effort now underway as an investigation into what caused a military helicopter to collide with a passenger airplane as it was coming into reagan national airport. joining us now is retired four star general barry mccaffrey. he's an msnbc military analyst and general. the pentagon says that crew was on a routine annual training mission. they did have night vision goggles. so take us inside a blackhawk cockpit at night. are there blind spots? how much does the pilot rely on the flight crew and the ground teams? >> well.

>> of course, at this point, this. tragic loss of 67. >> lives, we objectively aren't going to know exactly what happened. >> something clearly went terribly wrong. i've spent hundreds. >> of hours. >> in. >> blackhawk helicopters, both in combat. >> and in peacetime. >> operations under night vision goggle. >> flight rules. >> at night, barreling. through mountainous. >> terrain 100ft away from. >> a. >> rock wall. it's a remarkable. >> aircraft and. >> the. training standards. >> to conduct these. >> operations are extremely exacting. >> so that's. >> all we. >> know. at this point. and there was an. >> observer in the back. >> of the helicopter. so at some. >> point we'll find. >> out whether. >> this was. >> a problem of pilot. error on the part of the blackhawk. or the flight. >> crew. >> on the commercial airliner. or did was there a contributory factor of air traffic controllers? >> but it's all speculation at this time. >> these are the.

>> blackhawk. >> though were 5000 produced. it's one. >> of the safest. >> military helicopters. >> we've ever had. >> it's a global buy. for commercial uses. it's a wonderful aircraft. >> can you tell us more about what types of tools the blackhawk has when it comes to avoiding collisions? being able to make last minute maneuve also, are there black boxes or cockpit voice recorders inside these helicopters like commercial flights? >> i don't believe there's a black box in the in the in these aircraft. >> military aircraft. >> so we'll find out sooner or later. but what is clear is that and as a general sense, the. blackhawks are such a powerful, fast. >> aircraft that they're. >> following the same. >> rules of flight. >> normally that a commercial airliner would. >> now, there's. >> some speculation that at. >> under a certain altitude, they're on visual flight only,

which. >> may well be the case. but but i would tell. >> you that the vision. >> capability of. >> the two pilots and. >> an observer are good. one of the problems, undoubtedly. >> though. >> is if it's. >> pitch black out and they're flying. >> night vision. >> goggles, they have tremendous control over. >> the aircraft. >> when you get. >> into light pollution from. reagan national airport in. >> washington. >> dc and other aircraft. i think. that also could clearly affect the army helicopter pilots spatial relationship and understanding of where they were. >> this is now the first crisis for the new defense secretary, pete hegseth, who's been posting on social media. he was at this press conference inside the white house briefing room with president trump. what kind of test do you see this? as for the new administration? >> well, you know. >> hedgepath is.

>> a. >> very bright guy, experienced combat soldier, well-educated, articulate, quick to. to speak. >> he ought to be very careful. >> what he's saying. >> i to be honest, i was. appalled at the press conference. turning this into a savage. >> political attack. >> on. >> the by name. >> on the. >> previous transportation. secretary and. >> two previous presidents. >> this is no time. >> for. >> partizan politics. they need. >> to shut up until they find. >> out the. >> facts. and. >> to. >> to blame it on incompetence of the air. >> traffic control. system at this. >> point is really abhorrent. >> as we await a press conference from the investigative agency ntsb, we don't know when they'll be briefing us at this point, but we hope to get more information from them as they are the leading authority here. what questions are are top of mind for you? >> well, i you know. >> again, i think. objectively

what we need. >> is data. >> that comes from the radar system, that comes from the black boxes and the commercial aircraft that come from ground observers. obviously, something went wrong. >> when. >> two aircraft collided in. >> the in. >> the approaches. >> to a major international airport. >> but at this. >> point, we don't really know. >> and we ought to let. >> the ntsb. >> just objectively say. >> what they know. >> so far. and they'll they'll have. >> a pretty good idea. i must admit. within days. >> of what happened. they don't publish their final report. until they're. >> conclusively put. >> it all together. that could. >> be as. >> long as a year we've. heard on air. but but in a. >> few. >> days, i think they'll have a pretty good feel for what probably happened. >> general barry mccaffrey, really appreciate your expertise. thank you so much for joining us, offering those insights. at this time, multiple medical examiner officers are all working to try to identify the victims of this crash. 60 passengers and four crew members were on board that american

airlines aircraft. so far, six victims affiliated with the skating club of boston have been identified as passengers on that airplane. massachusetts based skaters spencer lane and gina hahn and their mothers christine lane and tin hahn, as well as two coaches, former figure skating world champions evgenia shishkova and vadim naumov, and they were among an elite figure skating group and their families returning from a training camp that was held in conjunction with the u.s. figure skating championships that were in wichita, kansas. over the weekend. nbc news affiliate wrc just spoke with the ex-husband of one of the coaches who was on the plane. >> she was. >> one of the best. >> skaters i've ever seen. honestly, she was one of the best pair girls to skate. she she was. a russian all stars on ice. she toured with torvill and dean for years and years and.

was one of the best, knowing that what the impact she made to all the skaters and everyone just hurts my soul. and most of them are under 12. >> years old. >> there's three boys that i know that just like my. male skater. dealing with that, it's just. >> it's hard. enough seeing that. >> and then. >> the two girls from. >> northern virginia skating. >> club in fairfax, their. >> instagram people. >> it's tough. >> you know, like they're gone. >> that's what. >> kills me. >> is these kids. >> nbc's antonia hilton is there in wichita. just heartbreaking details to hear there. antonia, at this point, what else do we know about the victims? >> good afternoon anna. it has been an incredibly solemn day. >> here in wichita. i'm at city. >> hall and people have. >> been working overnight in this city. >> to try to identify the people who are from here, who work. >> here or. >> were part. >> of communities. >> like the. >> figure skating.

>> community, that have spent. significant amounts of time here. but officials have been really. >> careful here to be. >> slow about this. >> process, very. >> careful with their words, because as they made clear to the media here this morning, they wanted to be sure that they could reach all of the families affected by this and. >> have. >> conversations with them first and go through the identification process. before names and rumors were out there. i had the opportunity, though, to speak with one longtime. resident and the ceo of the aviation. museum here, ben sauceda, who described. really the. >> culture. >> the impact. >> i mean. >> you have to keep in mind this is a city of. >> about 500,000 people. >> so when you think about, say, six. >> degrees of separation. >> this is the kind of. >> community where. >> actually it's more like. >> 2 to 3. >> degrees and people. recognize family names and they know each other. take a listen to some of our conversation. >> we're doing okay. i mean, this is obviously a. >> situation that is. >> impacting our entire community. >> the full effects are not

known yet as the names have yet to be released. and so there's almost a bated breath to. >> see how that will change. >> once those names are released. >> but we're. >> just a community in mourning, and that heartbreak again comes at several levels. first, the. >> level that this. >> is a small city. so there's that. >> intimacy, that. >> knowledge, the roots that. >> go back a. >> long time for many people. then there's the sort of specific subsets. >> of communities. >> like. >> the figure skating community. >> people who were here celebrating. >> them, so excited for the championships and then for the training camp that happened afterwards. >> and then all kinds of communities, people. >> who come. >> here for recreation, who. >> take that exact flight path. in fact, mr. >> saucedo. >> who you just heard from there. >> takes that exact flight when he travels to washington. >> d.c. himself, the kind of flight where you get. >> on it. >> and you recognize neighbors, people. >> who. >> you work with at times on that route. and so people are being very careful right now as they wait for a prayer vigil to start here, where they're going

to pray for the families, the community members affected here support each other. and some of the names are locally starting to come out here. and so certainly people are going to have some questions and look for that kind of support. >> ana antonia hylton, thank you for your reporting. we want to note that american airlines has set up a toll free number for people who may have had loved ones on flight 5342. you can see it there on your screen. that number is one (800) 679-8215. the recovery efforts continue right now in the frigid potomac river. this is what d.c. fire and ems chief john donnelly said about the conditions rescue crews faced overnight. >> the water that we're operating in is about eight feet deep. there is wind, there is pieces of ice out there, so it's just dangerous and hard to work in. and because there's not a lot of lights, you're out there searching every square inch of space to see if you can find anybody. the divers are doing the same thing in the water. the water is dark, it is murky, and

that is a very tough condition for them to dive in. >> joining us now, tim taylor, ceo of tiburon subsea, which specializes in underwater robotics and ocean technologies used in underwater rescues and recovery. tim, at this stage in the operation, we're about 15 hours after the crash. it's now daylight, but still very cold. what does an underwater recovery entail and what would, i guess, search crews be doing right now? >> well, it's very shallow. >> water, so all things considered. so but if there's probably on impact, there was not a lot of water to between the, the plane and the bottom so that that plane is in the mud. so the bottoms of rivers tend to be silty and, and, and collect a lot of mud. >> and that's. >> going to be. >> a major factor. >> if there are 4 or 5ft down into the mud or two feet down into the mud, and this plane is upside down, and then obviously. it's wreckage. this is a tedious

work. and even though it's light out, the visibility in eight feet is probably close to, you know, zero anyway, even with all the light, because the turbidity and everything that's going on down there, they're going to have a hard time seeing. so this is this is going to be painstaking work. they also are in a river with the currents. so not everything may have stayed on site. so the there could have been some some debris that drifted down current and, and, and bodies that might have drifted down current. so this, this search can, can, can last a long time. >> how how does the cold water change how crews go about this search. >> well i mean they're they're they're equipped for this. but the types of equipment they use are dry suits and with thermal protection underneath. but it's exposure. even with the dry suit on, you're exposed to the elements and. >> you have to deal with. >> that over time. these guys. >> can't stay in the water for

eight hours. >> a day. >> so it's a matter of rotating them out and making plans, covering the. covering new ground. you know, you've got to you've got to work in the area and try to cover the every bit of area around the plane. and you make. >> sure you're. >> you're i guess you want to be redundant, but you also want to make sure that you're thorough. and it's a, it's painstaking. and the daylight has brought some advantages with the light. but underwater a lot of that is taken away and you're back there is. >> and you mentioned the current what kind of hazards would would come with that. >> well everything's moving. hydro high hydro. hydro hydraulic pressure can move things and it's. >> hard to. >> work in. the plane is a. >> volatile area right. >> now with things that are broken and that can still move. and that pressure can affect those. the temperature, you know, is a factor. but, you know, moving current in a river,

in my understanding, is. >> a. >> pretty good flow this time of year, coupled with ice on the surface, if they're running any kind of umbilicals or lines down there to support the divers, that ice can. affect that. it's, it's a it's a task and it eventually get finished. but as you've been saying, this is a recovery project. now the rescue. so they have the time i guess. >> tim taylor, appreciate your time and your expertise. thank you for being with us. we'll have much more on the deadly plane crash in the potomac and those confirmation hearings as well, happening on capitol hill as soon as we come back. but first, this just in from first lady melania trump. she writes on x, quote, my heart goes out to those impacted by last night's terrible tragedy. i pray for those who so sadly lost their lives, their families and loved ones, and the first responders who have worked tirelessly through the night. may they find strength and

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safelite repair. safelite replace. go to safelite.com and schedule a replacement today. >> breaking news in. just in. we're learning the ntsb will hold an update. a media briefing at 245 eastern. so in about two hours from now, i will of course be staying on top of this story. in the meantime, the deadly plane and helicopter crash at washington, d.c. but we're going to pivot for just a moment because there's two other big breaking news stories happening right now in washington. on capitol hill today, confirmation hearings for the nation's top intelligence and law enforcement posts, two of president trump's more controversial nominees, tulsi gabbard, picked to be the director of national intelligence. and kash patel, the fbi director nominee, have been testifying for the last few hours before two separate senate committees. and gabbard, a former democratic member of congress. she turned republican trump supporter earlier was pushing back against critics, saying she is no puppet of

vladimir putin or syria's ousted leader bashar al assad, whom she met with in 2017. and fbi director nominee kash patel is a firebrand trump loyalist, also facing sharp questioning today for his so-called enemies list that he's written about and spoken of, and the president's threat of retribution against his political enemies. joining us now, nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, nbc news justice reporter ryan riley, and former assistant fbi director for counterintelligence frank figliuzzi. ryan nobles, let's start with gabbard. the hearing just wrapped us spying powers. edward snowden came up several times. why? and what are the top takeaways? >> yeah, the gabbard hearing, at least. >> the. >> public portion of. >> it is concluded for. >> the day, but she is going. >> to go through a. >> second round of closed door questioning by members of the intelligence committee so that they can ask her about specific, classified pieces of information. and you're right, there seem to be three big topics that. senators from both. >> sides of. >> the. >> aisle really seem to zero in

on when. >> it came to gabbard. >> the first. is her kind things. >> that she has said. >> about vladimir putin and the russian government, in some. >> cases being. >> accused. of echoing talking points. >> of the kremlin. >> the second, of course, being. >> that mysterious. >> meeting. >> that she had with bashar al assad, the deposed. >> dictator from syria. senators looking for an explanation. >> as to what her motivation was there. >> and what she. >> got out of that meeting. and then. >> third. >> her thoughts. >> about the what is often known as section 702, which is the program. >> that allows the federal government. >> to spy. >> on foreign assets. and gives a warrant program to. >> allow them to do that. >> that is something that some. libertarians have opposed. and gabbard has. spoken about in a very negative. >> light over the course of her career. >> but she now says. >> that she. >> supports in a narrow scope. listen to how gabbard. responded ahead of. >> time before. the questioning began. about many of those topics. >> those who oppose my nomination imply that i am loyal

to something or someone other than god. my own conscience and the constitution of the united states accusing me of being trump's puppet, putin's puppet, assad's puppet, a guru's puppet, modi's puppet, not recognizing the absurdity of simultaneously being the puppet of five different puppet masters. the same tactic was used against president trump. >> and failed. the american people elected president trump with a decisive victory and mandate for change. the fact is what truly unsettles my political opponents is i refuse to be their puppet. >> and the chairman of this committee, senator tom cotton, said at the start of this hearing that her fbi background check came back, as he described. >> it, as. >> clean as a. >> whistle. >> which would indicate. >> that. >> there are no reasons to believe that she had. >> any. >> sort of. serious connection. >> to these. >> foreign adversaries that

could compromise. >> her. >> position as the nation's top spy chief. so at this point, republicans seem to be comfortable with some of the concerns they may have had going. >> into this hearing. >> democrats remain very concerned. but as as the case with. >> all these nominees, anna, they can lose up to three. >> republican votes and. >> every single. democrat and still. >> win confirmation. anna. >> so ryan riley, let's talk about kash patel, who is president trump's pick for the fbi. he's been pressed pretty hard by democrats on that committee. i understand what what's his reaction been like? >> yeah. you know, democrats have been pressing him pretty hard. not you know, there hasn't been really aggressive questioning from republicans, frankly. but there has been some questions raised by democrats, including on the question of donald trump's mass pardons of all of these january 6th defendants, defendants, including hundreds of really violent rioters who assaulted police officers that day. and here's what he had to say. he had to say that he did not agree with any pardons of anyone who actually assaulted a law

enforcement officer. here are some more of what he had to say. >> do you think america is safer because president trump issued these pardons to 1600 of these criminal defendants, many of whom violently assaulted our police in the capital? >> senator, america will be safe when we don't have 200,000 drug overdoses in two years, america will be safe. we don't have 50,050 homicides in a day. >> so you just won't answer the question. >> and so, you know, i was talking to a lot of people about kash ahead of all of this. and what they were sort of telling me is that they thought this was sort of this idea of his sort of podcast. >> pro persona. >> going against his his more sort of, you know, government attorney or his federal prosecutor or his federal public defender persona. and, you know, those two clashing against each other. and i think he sort of saw that dynamic unfolding there. he wanted to do sort of a little bit of a pushback. but, you know, he was also willing to concede that he didn't think it was, you know, great for people who assaulted law enforcement officers to be pardoned. so

that's definitely something that i'm sure, you know, the president isn't going to be too thrilled about somebody undermining that. but all in all, kash is still, you know, someone who wrote a book about about donald trump being children's books, a series of children's books, or rather, about donald trump being king. so i think this is something that democrats are going to continue to press on. the question is whether or not that's going to actually move any, any republicans. and i don't see any signals right now that there's going to be any real opposition emerging from republicans to kash, which means that, you know, he's likely to be confirmed. and of course, this is unlike those other positions in the cabinet. the justice, the director of the fbi has this ten year term, you know, that was originally. so, you know, that was something that was supposed to have been a ten year term for the previous director. but, you know, this is now would be a theoretically a ten year term for kash patel. ana. >> that's right. he is coming in. christopher wray resigning because trump wanted him to, even though christopher wray had been initially nominated by trump in his first

administration. so unprecedented to even be in this type of confirmation hearing at this stage, because the ten year hadn't the ten years weren't up. but frank, there there's been concern expressed about both of these nominees, tulsi gabbard and kash patel, within the intelligence and law enforcement communities. you're a former fbi official yourself. your thoughts about these nominees? is there reason for concern? >> well. >> there's deep concern here. >> i mean. >> first. what we've seen. >> today is ludicrous. they want both these nominees want. >> us to believe. >> that they've undergone confirmation. conversions at the last minute. they want us to believe they've changed their mind on all their prior statements and positions, and suddenly they're going to do. >> the. >> right thing. that's just strange. credibility and credulity. second, we're looking at two nominees here. who in the history of. >> the united. >> states, we've we've. >> never seen two nominees for these positions. >> that wouldn't even make it through an fbi background.

investigation if they were applying for lower level jobs. if you and i were applying for a low level position at either fbi or dni, dni and we had this baggage, these allegations hanging over our head, these relationships, these statements, we would be disqualified from. >> the. >> security clearance. but because these are going to be. nominees heading the agency, somehow we don't see this happening. this idea that tulsi gabbard's background. investigation was, quote, perfect, pristine, whatever it was said nonsense. because we know publicly about all of the concerns hanging over her head with regard to her visit to syria. her statement, who paid questions about who paid. >> for her trip to. >> syria and their links to terrorism, her statements about vladimir. putin and bashar al assad, what's happened with the hegseth nomination was that the trump transition team did not share the entire fbi background investigation with the key members of the senate. i fear that's what's going on right now. both of them are disqualified for these

positions, for these positions. >> and what's at stake then, because it sounds like both are likely to be confirmed. >> yeah. we've got we've got two candidates, as we've seen with the other nominees who simply are more loyal to trump than to the constitution or to the institution they're being allowed to lead. so at the fbi, we can see the kind of severe abuses of power. drop that case, don't open this case. go after this person that we saw under j. >> edgar hoover. horrible abuses. and i fear we're going to see that again, particularly when paired with the attorney general pick who oversees the fbi. with regard to dni, i don't think she can be trusted with classified information. i don't think she's qualified. she has zero qualifications with prior intelligence work. and i think that's scary, particularly with regard. >> to our. >> allies who look to that position as a position of trust. we're going to share our allied intelligence with you. you better keep it secure and not use it for political purposes. >> we're less than a minute

here, ryan riley, but we've learned that president trump is also installed. people who have ties to elon musk and congressman jim jordan into top fbi roles. that happening today. what do we know? >> yeah, we reported this last night, ken delaney and myself. it's very unusual to have that sort of people coming into those positions because typically the only really, quote unquote political position is the director within the fbi. not you don't usually have this this circumstance where people are coming from, jim jordan's committee and then coming into the bureau even before, you know, the leadership is really confirmed here. so was quite a little unusual circumstance there. >> all right. ryan nobles, ryan riley and frank figliuzzi, thank you all for joining us. that does it for me this hour. i'll see you back here tomorrow. same time and same place, 10 a.m. eastern. my usual show, chris jansing reports, starts right now. >> good day. i'm chris jansing, live in