fdi policies. trump's instinct after the tragedy was yet again to choose divisiveness on social media. within hours of the collision, he offered not condolences, but conspiracy theories, as he did so often in his first term, he was reacting to a crisis as an observer and not as the president, who has the resources of the federal government at his disposal and the responsibility of getting answers. trump showcased his instinct to immediately frame tragedies through his own ideological or political lens. facts be damned. and we'll, of course, talk to lemire straight ahead. that was way too early for this friday morning. have a good weekend. morning joe first starts right now. >> good morning. >> welcome to. morning joe. >> it is. >> friday, january 31st. with us. >> this morning, the co-host of our fourth hour, jonathan lemire. >> he's a contributing writer. >> at. >> the atlantic. >> covering the white. house and national. >> politics. and us special.

>> correspondent for bbc news. >> katty kay. >> our top. >> story this. >> morning again. >> the. crash at dca. two nights ago. >> the national. >> transportation safety board has recovered. >> now two. >> black boxes from the passenger flight. >> involved in the mid-air. >> collision with an army helicopter near. reagan national airport. >> the american. >> airlines plane. was coming from wichita. >> kansas. >> on wednesday night. >> it was making. >> its final approach to the. >> airport, with a total of. 64 people on board. the black. >> hawk helicopter from fort. >> belvoir was conducting. >> a training. >> mission with three. >> soldiers aboard. >> the aircraft. >> crashed into the potomac river. both. all 67. >> people involved were. >> killed as of last night. >> crews recovered about. >> 40 bodies. from the potomac. >> search efforts. >> are. >> set to resume. >> this morning. officials also discovered the. >> plane's cockpit. >> voice recorder and. flight data recorder. >> both have been. >> taken to a lab for. evaluation by the ntsb. the cause of the crash has not yet been determined, but there are some concerns this morning of

the level of staffing in the air traffic control tower the night of the crash. >> typically. >> reagan national airport has one controller for planes and another for helicopters, but a source. with knowledge of the situation tells nbc news on wednesday there was only one controller handling both aircraft. while that is not. >> ideal. >> it is acceptable under faa standards. new air traffic. >> control audio. >> captured the moment leading up to the crash and the immediate reaction afterward. >> d.o.j. flight. d.o.j. crash crash crash crash crash crash. this is layer three. we're looking for a aircraft versus a helicopter in the potomac. in the area of. reagan national. fire command. the accident happened in the river. both the helicopter and the plane crashed in the river. it's east of the

approach end of runway three three. it was probably out in the middle of the river. i just saw a fireball, and then it was just gone. so i haven't seen anything since they hit the river. but it was a crash and a helicopter that hit, i would say maybe a half mile off the approach end of three three. >> some chilling audio there. >> meanwhile, we're learning more. >> about some of the victims who died on wednesday night in that collision above the potomac. the pentagon has not released the names of the three people aboard the downed blackhawk helicopter, but defense secretary pete hegseth said it was a fairly experienced crew. in his words, family members have confirmed the deaths of the crew on board the american airlines flight, including the pilot, first officer and two flight attendants. the plane's passengers included more than a dozen figure skaters, some as young as 12 years old coaches and parents, with them returning from a training camp following the 2025 u.s. figure skating championships in wichita, which, as i said, is where the flight

originated. two time olympic figure skating medalist nancy kerrigan spoke about the tragedy during an emotional news conference yesterday at the prestigious skating club of boston, of which she is an alumna. >> much like. >> everyone here. >> has been. >> saying is. not sure how to process it. shoot. i'm sorry. okay. >> which is. >> why i'm here. >> i think. it's a shock. >> i was. >> watching, i. >> wasn't woken. >> up in the morning and saw it. >> i was. >> watching, like, all night. >> so i probably looked. >> tired, but. >> and then when you find. >> out, you know, you. >> know, some of. >> the people on. >> the. >> plane, it's. even a bigger blow going. >> through something tragic, not. >> like. >> this, but. myself. that the community's stood.

>> behind me. >> and i grateful. >> for that. and so. >> it's my turn now to hopefully be here. i'm not sure what it is to do maybe get someone a cup of coffee, but a hug. >> i'm here for hugs. >> i don't know. it's just i want to be able to give back what i feel. like i got. >> the main. >> lesson i. >> think learned in skating is you get back up. >> keep on. >> trying, and. >> even when it's. >> hard. >> you get back up. >> even when you're. >> crying. >> hurt, pain, you get. >> back up. >> and move forward. it's not easy, but. >> that's what. >> we all have to do now together. >> kerrigan was flanked there by some of the legends of american figure skating. two young skaters, members of the skating club of boston, along with parents and two coaches, were on board the flight. also among those lost, five members of a washington area based labor union. a professor at the howard university school of law. a group of friends returning from

a duck hunting trip, an attorney, and many more. some of the victims loved ones spoke to reporters yesterday. >> it's. >> just feels crazy that it happened to us, to be honest. i mean. it's like, you see. >> these things happen in the news. you see them happen. >> in other countries. >> and then i. >> show up to. >> the airport. >> and my. >> wife's not responding. and i look on twitter and i see that it's. >> her flight. >> it was really just kind of a force of nature. and about three years ago saw nathan chen in the olympics and decided, hey, i could do that. he just was like a phenom and just loved it. and it wasn't anyone pushing him. he was just somebody who loved it and had natural talent, but also just worked every day. >> kind of just. >> felt like a nightmare. >> and was. >> hoping i would wake up.

>> and it. >> would be that. but it's. >> a new. >> reality. >> that. >> we just. >> have to work through together. >> joining us now live from reagan national airport. nbc news correspondent aaron gilchrist. aaron, you've been on this story from the very earliest hours. what more do we know today about the investigation? well. >> the investigation continues, obviously, willie, we know that the ntsb has taken control of the investigation part of this incident. we know that divers were in the water really, from the first minutes after this crash happened. up until late yesterday. they suspended the search and recovery operation last night. they will be back in the water today from the dc fire department and several other agencies that have been helping with the recovery effort here. we also know that the ntsb has about 50 people here in this region that are working on this incident, and they will be on the water with those divers today, again, trying to find pieces of what will really be

information. they are on a fact finding mission. the ntsb is to figure out exactly the how and why of this incident, what caused this crash, and what they can do to prevent a similar incident from happening in the future. as you noted, we understand from our local station here in dc that about 40 of the victims have been recovered at this point from both the plane fuselage and the helicopter as well. the plane broke into at least three pieces when this crash happened the othe were in the water searching for initially survivors and then of course, trying to recover. now the remains of all of those victims, an integral part of what the dc fire department has been trying to do. the medical examiner in the city is now tasked with identifying those remains and making sure they are ultimately returned to their families. when the divers go back into the water today, we understand they'll be looking for additional parts. anything that would be a part of the salvage operation. the ntsb will

take control of those elements, as they have with the black boxes that were in the airplane. they already have those, and they start to try to piece together a story to figure out what was going on on the plane, in the cockpit, in the helicopter, in the moments before this crash happened. and that will inform all that. they ultimately will determine the ultimately, they try to determine what caused this crash to happen. and all that information, along with interviews they'll do with people who were in the tower here at reagan national. all that information will come together. it'll be months before we have some real solid answers from the ntsb, willie. but as you might imagine, the investigation is getting a lot of attention. and this is something that will be a really a central focus of the ntsb as they go forward with the search and recovery of pieces and trying to determine a cause here. >> and, as you say, just extraordinary work by those first responders. the fact that d.c. fire and ems has already

searched all the river that it can access at this point is just extraordinary. and we hope that they find the remainder of those bodies today. nbc's aaron gilchrist at reagan national airport in washington. aaron, thanks so much. let's bring in nbc news aviation analyst john cox, who's a former pilot and accident investigator with more than 20 years of experience and really has been guiding us through this over the last 24 hours. john, thanks for being with us. i want to go back just to a few minutes ago. we got some of that new air traffic control audio, the moments before the collision and then the moments after. did you hear anything new? did we learn anything new from from what we heard there? >> willie, i don't think we've heard anything actually new. we knew yesterday when the first atc tapes were released, that the controller asked the helicopter if they could see the regional jet. the helicopter acknowledged it. the controller told him to pass behind the jet, and at that point, it becomes

the responsibility of the helicopter crew to maintain visual separation from the jet. what happened in the minutes after that? we don't know yet. and that's going to be one of the central questions and central areas of focus for the ntsb is what happened from the time that they acknowledge that they see the jet up to the point of impact. >> so, john, any concerns from your end about this new reporting this morning that there was only one controller in the tower at the moment of the collision? the faa saying it's not normal, but it is acceptable. what do you make of that? >> well, i think that it says that the staffing was below optimum. but here again, once the helicopter crew says that they see the rj, they are then responsible to maintain separation from the jet. so whether there's one controller or two, the responsibility for separation at that point resides

with the helicopter crew. >> john, thank you again for joining. >> us this morning. there have been some. speculation the last 24. >> hours. >> or so. >> because we've heard the audio of the helicopter crew. acknowledging they see. >> the jet. >> some have wondered. >> if. >> perhaps the helicopter crew. >> saw the. wrong jet. that was. >> acknowledging a different aircraft. >> and not. >> the one. >> from wichita, which it would definitely collide later. >> collide. >> now we don't. >> know for sure. so i'm. >> not asking. >> you to weigh. >> in as if. >> that's what you think happened here, but is that the sort of thing. >> that is possible? >> have you seen, perhaps. >> in. >> previous incidents where. >> pilots ppe helicopter, these helicopter. >> pilots with. >> low visibility? >> you know. >> hard to see. >> what's going on. >> so many lights. >> crowded airspace. >> does that sound like. something that. >> could be. >> possible to you? >> it's certainly something that ntsb will look at if they misidentified the airplane, then this could explain the flight path of the helicopter. we don't know that yet. and it may be very hard to determine. they will certainly look to see the

angle at which the helicopter pilots would have seen the approaching rj, and potentially the one behind it. so that question is going to get a lot of attention. but as it stands right now, this morning, we don't have an answer for that. >> and let's. >> also. >> talk about. >> elevation reporting. yesterday the. >> helicopter may have been a little. higher than it should have been. just speak. >> to us. you broadly, perhaps in. >> a crowded airspace. >> like this. >> you know, we. >> talked yesterday about that. >> dca runway. >> is either seeing a. plane land. >> or take off every. >> minute, every minute or two. you know, how important is it. and how difficult is. >> it. >> to juggle these various. >> aircrafts at various elevations? because it is, of course. >> a multi-dimensional. >> space here. >> the term elevation is unusual in aviation. it's normally altitude. the fact that if the helicopter was above 200ft, then they were out of the airspace. they were cleared to fly in. i have landed on that runway many,

many times. i've had helicopters go below me many times. so the flight path of the helicopter and the rj are going to be examined in great detail. if the helicopter was above 200ft, then it presents a problem and that it could be one of the issues that are contributing or causal to this tragedy. >> john. >> can we talk. >> about the. crowding more. >> broadly at reagan? you've talked. >> about landing there with. >> helicopters around you as well. we know now that there are stories from pilots over the. >> last. >> couple of years of at. least two incidents of near misses where planes had to take evasive action to avoid helicopters as they came in to land. we had. >> members of congress just last year. >> a group of them. >> expressed concerns. >> about the potential for. >> risks because. >> of the. >> number of flights. >> that are now landing at reagan. do you think it needs reagan airport and its schedule, and the number of flights that are landing, as well as the military aircraft there? does that need does that need

revisiting? >> i certainly think it needs to be looked at, but we have used these procedures for decades and safely, effectively. and it's i won't say it's totally routine. reagan is a challenging airport. i always enjoy flying in and out of there because it does require skill, and it is a satisfying feeling to be able to get the jet where it needs to be on speed. but before we start making major changes, we need to recognize these procedures have worked really well for many, many decades, so i'm hesitant to say blanketly oh, we should change it when we've had this level of success. have there been cases? certainly where there have been conflicts, but they've been resolved safely. so i think we just need to be careful before we make any changes. >> i guess.

>> what i'm asking is we know that the. >> number of. >> flights is increasing every. year out of reagan, from congressional demand, from the demand of the city that is growing. the number of runways hasn't increased in decades. is there a point at which you have to assess? we just have too many. flights for the size of this airport. or are you saying, actually we can carry on exponentially. expanding the number of flights and still keep the airport safe? >> there's certainly a limit, but it's the separation limits that are already in place so that the there is a limit about w many aircraft per hour that can come in and out of reagan. and we've been able to use that successfully for a really long time. does that mean that there's no growth possible? i think we're going to have to look at that. but i don't think it's fair to say categorically, okay, we have too many airplanes. we'll have to go cut reagan back. i don't i don't think that the statistics

validate that. i don't think that that warrant that. so i think it's something to be looked at. and so long as we maintain the current separation standards, i think it's proven to be safe. >> so, john, the ntsb now has those two black boxes, the flight data recorders, to help with the investigation. we'll be looking at all the evidence that we've seen publicly. we just heard that air traffic control back and forth, as you say, it looks like perhaps pilot error involved here that they were given the warning, the pilot about the plane perhaps saw the wrong plane. we don't know yet. but where will the investigation go from here? now that they do have those black boxes? >> they'll certainly get all the data they can from the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder, particularly the cockpit voice recorder, will give insight into what the pilots knew and didn't know. and willing to say that we know that we feel like that it's a pilot error or accident. i think that's premature at this point. we know what the helicopter pilots said, and we know the

flight path until we can very carefully look, and that the track of these airplanes, of these aircraft, i think that we have to keep an open mind. everything is still on the table right now as far as the investigators are concerned. >> and the looking at equipment failure as well as a possibility. but we'll just have to wait and see here. nbc news aviation analyst john cox we're so lucky to have you on days like these. we appreciate you, john. thanks. and still ahead on morning joe, president trump facing blistering criticism this morning for suggesting diversity programs are to blame for wednesday night's air disaster. we'll show you those new remarks and the reaction. plus, the latest from capitol hill is three of the president's most controversial nominees appeared before lawmakers for confirmation hearings yesterday. we are back in 90s. >> yoo hoo! no, no, no, that is against the hoa bylaws. >> bylaws, bylaws. we're showing

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customize and save. >> hundreds on. >> car insurance with. >> liberty mutual. you're just a. flightless bird. >> no, he's a dreamer, frank. >> and doug. >> well. i'll be. that bird really did it. >> only pay for what you need. >> liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. >> have you spoken to any of the families of the victims of the plane crash? >> i don't want. >> to comment on that. >> do you have a plan to go visit the site. >> or meet with any? >> i have a plan to visit, not the site. because. >> what did you tell me? >> what's the site? >> the water. >> or to meet with. >> the first. >> responders down there? >> i don't. >> have a plan to do that, but i will be meeting with some people that were very badly hurt. >> with their family. >> member, obviously, but i'll be meeting with some of the families. >> yeah. >> president trump yesterday with that flippant response to reporters saying, what do you want me to do, go swimming? to go to the site of that tragedy over the potomac river yesterday and saying he's going to meet

with people who are very badly hurt. sadly, there are no people who are very badly hurt. they're all presumed dead. this morning, earlier in the day, trump appeared in the white house briefing room, where he suggested diversity programs put in place by the biden and obama administrations somehow caused wednesday night's tragedy. >> we must have only the highest standards for those who work in our aviation system. >> i changed. >> the obama standards from very mediocre at best to extraordinary. i put safety first. obama, biden and the democrats put. >> policy first. >> and they put politics at. >> a level. >> that nobody's ever seen. >> they put a big push to. put diversity. >> into the faa's program. >> the faa is actively recruiting workers. >> who suffer. severe intellectual. >> disabilities. >> psychiatric problems, and other mental and physical. >> conditions under. >> a diversity. >> and. >> inclusion hiring initiative. >> spelled out.

>> on the agency's website. >> can you imagine. >> they actually came out. >> with a. >> directive to. >> white, and we want the people that are competent. >> i'm trying to figure out. >> how you can come. >> to. the conclusion. >> right now. >> that diversity. >> had something to. >> do with it, because i have common sense, okay. and unfortunately, a lot of people don't. >> we want brilliant people. >> doing this. >> so again, the president going to the briefing room yesterday as they were still pulling the bodies out of the potomac, suggesting it was dei that caused this disaster. the president, citing diversity standards imposed by previous administrations. the washington post, is fact checking the president's claims this morning, the paper reporting the obama administration in 2013 instituted a new hiring system for air traffic controllers that introduced a biographical questionnaire to attract minorities underrepresented in the controller corps. but trump, in his first term, left the policy in place. and the faa,

under trump in 2019, launched a program to hire controllers using the very criteria he decried at his news conference, nbc's peter alexander pressed the president on that. >> the cited faa text that you read. >> is real. >> but the implication. >> that this policy is new. >> or that it stems from efforts that began under president biden or the transportation secretary. pete buttigieg, is. >> demonstrably false. >> it's been on the faa website. >> you know. >> it's on the website, the faa's website. it was there in 2013. it was there for the entirety. >> what i read, it. >> was there for the entirety of your administration to. so my question is, why didn't you change the policy during your first administration? >> i did change it. i changed the obama policy, and we had a very good policy. and then biden came in and he changed it. >> he did not change the policy again. and jonathan lemire, the fact that we're even having this conversation, this semantic argument over who put the policy in place as some kind of suggestion that it is what led to a helicopter flying into a passenger jet, killing 67 people

without any evidence? why are we even talking about that to begin with? but you wrote about this for the atlantic yesterday, about the president behaving like he's still running a campaign, or that he's a businessman sitting at mar-a-lago, lobbing conspiracy theories and attacks on opponents. what did you see in that briefing room yesterday, john? yeah, yeah, i was in the room when the president addressed the press there, the briefing, something he wanted to do, didn't defer to any of his officials. he himself wanted the spotlight, wanted the microphone, wanted the cameras. white house officials told me, yes, this is yet another moment here. first of all, where fact checking is really important. and good job by peter, our colleague peter alexander. good work there by the washington post. >> it is worth. >> reiterating this is again a. >> first policies. the diversity initiatives. >> were put in place by president obama. >> trump, while. >> he was president, left them there and then it was his. own faa when he was in charge that. promoted programs. about hiring those with disabilities to join that agency, and that yesterday

he, of course, tried to blame them in a wedge issue, speaking, you know, in moments after a crisis, our nation reeling from it, choosing once again division also lying about his record very reminiscent, i will say, of during the presidential campaign when he gained much traction from then vice president harris and the idea of transgender surgery provided for inmates in prisons. well, we fact checked it at the time and found that that program also existed under the trump administration. he, of course, when he in his bureau of prisons promoted it, he, of course, did not change it while he was in office. but bigger picture, willie, it's another moment where this president took a time of national tragedy and tried to use it to score political points and attack his foes. we've seen it a few times this month, the wildfires in southern california. he blamed that on democratic politicians before he was sworn in the terror attack in new orleans on new year's day. he blamed that on the border when it turned

out, of course, that it was a us citizen in texas who carried out the attacks. his instinct is never to bring people together. but even in some stunning fashion, try to blame others and point fingers when, of course, as president, the ultimate responsibility should be lying with him and you can almost see him anticipating blame of his administration in some way and projecting that onto everyone else. he also blamed former transportation secretary pete buttigieg for various issues within the faa. buttigieg responded on social media, writing, quote, despicable as families grieve, trump should be leading, not lying. we put safety first, drove down close calls, grew air traffic control and had zero commercial airline crash fatalities out of millions of flights on our watch, president trump now oversees the military and the faa. one of his first acts was to fire and suspend some of the key personnel who helped to keep our skies safe. time for the president to show actual leadership and explain what he will do to prevent this from happening again. that's former transportation secretary pete

buttigieg. katty kay, watching the president yesterday in that briefing room where jonathan saw up close, reminded of people who said, you know what, he won a second term. now he's a two term president. he did it. maybe he'll settle in and be the president. a lot of people hoped he could be and put behind him the grievances and personal attacks and all of the things that he used to get back to the white house on the campaign trail. but in this first week, clearly no evidence that that's going to happen. >> yeah. or even that this would be the kind of calmer, more grown up version of the first administration, with susie wilson as commander in chief. there had been some speculation that, yes, they would move fast. the policies might not be policies that many democrats would agree with, but things would be efficient and work effectively. i think what we've seen in the last 48 hours is that that is not necessarily the case. we saw the all of the funding drawn back for domestic grants in the country that had to be overturned very quickly. then we saw the crash and the response to the crash. but it looks like donald trump is feeling extremely powerful and

realizing that even if he says something or goes too far, then he's not going to get much pushback, right? i mean, yes, pete buttigieg came out with a tweet saying that this was despicable, but you have not had a complete outcry uniform from members of the democratic party responding to what president trump did, effectively blaming black brown people, women, people with disabilities for that air crash. i mean, let's be honest, you know, that's what diversity is. and that is what the president said, that black, brown people, women and people with disabilities caused this crash. i mean, where is the outcry from a coordinated outcry from democrats now? they've been tied up. they've been tied up in the hearings on the capitol hill. it's just this this sense that donald trump wants to have a fight. the fact that he signed a memorandum even after that press conference doesn't suggest at all that he thinks he went too far in that press conference. quite the contrary. he wants to push it even further. and he thinks that there'll be even if nothing happens that's positive. there

will be very little pushback from a congress that seems to be either cowed on the democratic side or compliant on the republican side. >> yeah, not much criticism yesterday from republicans. there were a group of democrats held a press conference led by minority leader chuck schumer, who very specifically and clearly criticized the president for using this moment to sow division. again. we'll have much more on the plane crash with a focus on the investigation and the victims coming up shortly. also, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin will join us with a look at her interview with a former federal prosecutor who worked on some of the january 6th capitol riot cases, plus president trump's pick for fbi director kash patel appears to distance himself from the president's sweeping pardons of those rioters during his senate confirmation hearing. morning joe is coming right back. >> and the laughing. myself while the tears. >> roll down. >> because it's the world i

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>> therma. i have always rejected any violence against law enforcement, and i have included in that group is specifically addressed any violence against law enforcement on january 6th, and i do not agree with the commutation of any sentence of any individual who committed violence against law enforcement. >> i've been thinking these capitol police officers, and i told them, i thought i actually

thought that the pardons of people who did harm. >> to a police. officer sucked. >> and i told. >> them that. >> at every one. >> of these. >> security entrances, when i come in. >> and i. >> stand by it, and i respectfully disagree with the president. >> or. >> whoever likely gave him advice, because. >> the president has. >> to rely on best advice for some of these executive orders. >> but i. >> make no apology. >> for saying that. >> the men and women. >> on capitol hill. >> that. >> got us safely to this. building are heroes. >> the people. >> who harmed them are thugs. that's republican senator thom tillis of north carolina. and before that, kash patel. president trump's pick to be director of the fbi. distancing themselves very clearly from trump's pardons of the violent january 6th rioters, especially those who attacked police officers. that was during patel's confirmation hearing yesterday. patel was not the only nominee grilled by senators over their past comments. tulsi gabbard, trump's choice for director of national intelligence, also appeared before a senate committee yesterday in an equally

contentious hearing. nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles has more. >> do you think. >> a pair of president trump's top national security nominees facing high stakes confirmation hearings? >> there will be no politicization at the fbi. >> former federal prosecutor kash patel, nominated for fbi director. the staunch trump supporter pressed by democrats about his independence. >> would you be. >> willing to. >> resign the post of fbi director if pressed. >> and given. >> no choice but to. >> obey the order or resign? >> senator, i will always obey the law. >> and president trump's pardons of violent offenders from january 6th. >> i do not agree with the commutation of any sentence of any individual who committed violence against law enforcement. >> patel strongly defended by republicans. >> the reason. >> you're here is. because most of the public. >> almost every. >> republican, believes. that the. >> fbi has been used. continuously in. >> a political. >> fashion, lying. >> to get donald.

>> trump. across the capitol, former democratic congresswoman and combat veteran tulsi gabbard, nominated for director of national intelligence. >> what truly unsettles my political opponents is. >> i refuse to. >> be their puppet. >> gabbard, pushing back on claims she parroted kremlin talking points. >> i want to make certain that in no way does russia get. >> a pass. >> in either your mind or your heart. >> i'm offended by the question because my sole focus, commitment and responsibility is about our own nation. >> and pressed over her previous call for a pardon for edward snowden, who fled the u.s. after releasing a trove of government secrets. >> is edward snowden a traitor to the united states of america? >> i understand how. >> critical our. >> national security. >> apparently you don't. >> nbc's ryan nobles reporting from capitol hill. let's bring in nbc news senior executive editor for national security, david rohde. he was in the room yesterday for kash patel's

confirmation hearing. david. good morning. what were your impressions as you sat and listened? kash patel doing what nominees do from time to time, which is say the right things over the course of those hours to get themselves confirmed, but also often in stark contrast with everything they've said for years before that hearing. >> yeah. and thank you for pointing that out. that clip of. him saying he disagreed with. >> the commutations regarding. >> january 6th. >> was the one. >> moment where he did shift. >> from his. >> past statements. in this memoir. he wrote he. i'm not sure the exact wording at this point, but he he called january. >> 6th. >> and the charges that were. brought a made up insurrection. when he was asked under oath. yesterday why he. >> went on podcasts. >> with hosts that have expressed anti-semitic and conspiracist views, he said i went on there to tell them to make them, you know, confront them with the truth. that's why i went on there. and he didn't actually, you know, do that as far as i know, when he appeared on those broadcasts. so he was

very evasive. he wouldn't. >> say that joe biden. >> won the 2020 election. and then separately, there was news that was reported by my colleagues, ken dilanian and ryan riley, that already dismissals of senior officials in the fbi have begun. yesterday, several of them were told to leave. so it was a very confusing message yesterday. so, david. >> you. >> know, part of why patel has drawn such scrutiny is there's first this belief that he will do whatever donald trump has asked, will ask him to do. he has said that in the past. and also, of course, he has an enemies list printed for all to see in the back of his book. and we certainly believe, you know, people he would potentially go after is more expansive than those just written down there. did that come up yesterday? what did he say about this idea of using the department of justice to carry out retribution? >> he vowed he wouldn't do it, as you saw senator graham say. he said that, you know, the democrats have used it for weaponization. i'm not going to do that. and he insists, he says in the book, over and over, there are criminal members of the deep state, and it's a list of people that he says are members of the deep state. and

he just denies that he sort of, you know, distorted his own past. i felt and i think that it's very concerning. one of the things we've also learned is that there's a half dozen advisers who've arrived at the justice department, sorry, at the fbi, and are working on the director's floor, the seventh floor, two of them are have are affiliated in some way with spacex. one of them is a former aide of representative jim jordan, a real, you know, a republican who's been incredibly negative and, you know, criticizing the current fbi. and this is all unprecedented after j. edgar hoover's decades of abuse, there was massive reforms in the 1970s. there's only been one political appointee in the entire fbi for 50 years. that's the director. you now have a half dozen people coming in to work for. workforce doesn't know who they are, and current fbi officials are very worried about what's happening. >> so it was a blockbuster day on the hill yesterday because there are two other major hearings. let's talk about those now. second day of bobby kennedy. junior's hearings for

hhs. he still again seemed confused about the very basics of. medicare and medicaid. it was interesting. i caught my attention. senator cassidy position himself really pressed him on questions there at the end that kennedy didn't answer all that well. some believe that maybe cassidy creating. >> a. >> path to get to know. maybe he would. >> be a. >> fourth vote. >> we're not sure. >> and there's also tulsi gabbard, who and i'll just read from it here, some republicans who maybe went into this hearing inclined. >> to. >> support her, or at least giving her the benefit of the doubt. maybe not. >> a few, just. >> a few reactions here. senator lankford. >> from oklahoma. >> who previously said he backed gabbard, said afterwards there are a lot of questions now. senator curtis, of utah, said the hearing deepened his concerns about her judgment. todd young of indiana, who was we. >> saw a. >> little bit they're clashing. >> here with about edward snowden. >> said to quote, i've got for now at least, all the information i need. and then senator josh hawley, who was a trump supporter to the hilt, said, i'm worried that her nomination may be in jeopardy. tell us particularly on that one, since it's the national security world. tell us what you're hearing about gabbard and

her chances. >> i think she's in the most trouble. and it's partly bluntly that she's a former democrat. and there were sort of basic questions that she wouldn't answer. a question from a democrat about, you know, edward snowden. and so i think she's in the most trouble. and what's fascinating in this deeply divided senate is a single vote could make a difference. pete hegseth was one vote away from being blocked. thom tillis didn't vote against him. so i think she's in trouble. i think kennedy again, cassidy. it was amazing to watch him as a physician bring up all these issues with, you know, all these vaccines that have he's seen as a physician help people. so if there is a flip, it would be those two nominations. but i do think that kash patel will will get through and be confirmed. >> david, talk a little bit more about thom tillis. my understanding of being that he hadn't been keen on pete hegseth, didn't think he was necessarily qualified for the job, but because he is up for reelection himself in 2026, he doesn't want to jeopardize his own chances of becoming senator again. why would he take a

different stance on tulsi gabbard? is there a feeling that somebody like tillis has a pass on one of these? and that's just where he's choosing to play his his get out of jail free card, as it were? or is this genuinely that he is more concerned about gabbard than he might have been about hegseth? >> it's fascinating and a great question, and we've been reporting on it, and we'll try to report more. danielle hegseth, the former sister in law of pete hegseth, said that she was promised by a senator. it appears that was senator tillis. i don't know for sure here that if she said on the record that he had had acted in such a volatile manner that he caused his second wife to fear for her safety, that votes would flip. in a statement after he was confirmed, danielle hegseth talked about how she was promised and her sense of frustration, talked about different ndas that could force women who suffer abuse from not being able to speak out. so why

he chose that vote? it's not clear, but it's something we're still pursuing. but he embraced kash patel yesterday very effusively, and many republican senators again fear more a challenge, a primary challenge from the right than anything else. and that might be, you know, driving him at this point. >> and some of those are way down the road as you look at election schedules. but they're still worried about a vote today could cost them years away. david, stay with us. let's bring in former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, who sat down for an interview with a former federal prosecutor of some of the violent january 6th rioters pardoned by president trump. lisa. good morning. so what did you hear? this has to be incredibly frustrating. probably isn't even the word for someone who put together a case, built all these cases, won convictions just to see the jails opened up so people could walk out. >> well, that's absolutely right. >> yesterday i interviewed alexis loeb. >> who worked. >> in the justice. department for over. >> a decade, most recently. >> on the department's sprawling. >> effort to.

>> prosecute cases related to the january 6th insurrection. >> and we. >> spoke about. >> her reaction to president. >> trump's pardons of. >> the. >> capitol rioters. >> who have. >> concerns about. >> your safety in. >> the. >> wake. >> of these pardons. >> whenever prosecutors. >> bring cases, particularly cases. >> involving violence, that is a risk. >> that that. >> you take on as a prosecutor. but apart. >> from my role as a prosecutor. >> i have. >> concerns as. >> as an american about. >> what happens. >> now that. all of. >> these defendants. >> have. been given a pass. >> of some. >> quite serious crimes. >> and what. >> kind of. message that sends to them or others who may be considering committing acts of political. >> violence. >> in the future? >> willie. >> alexis and i also spoke. >> about fbi. >> director nominee. >> kash patel. >> who, despite his. comments at yesterday's. >> hearing, has. >> set off alarm bells in the department of. >> justice about. >> his potential lack. >> of independence from president trump.

>> mr. patel. >> today was. >> told by. >> a senator of. >> president trump's. >> own party that he. >> believed that the pardons. >> and you'll excuse. >> my. >> language sucked. >> is there. >> anything that you. >> want to. >> say to kash. >> patel on. >> the eve. >> of his. >> presumably becoming director of the. >> fbi? >> the pardons. >> can't be undone. >> at this point. >> but what mr. patel. >> can do is that going. >> forward, as. >> the head. >> of. >> the fbi. >> he has the power to. >> remain vigilant. >> and to. >> stop further. >> acts of political. >> violence and to. >> respond when those happen. >> and take them seriously and make sure that future acts. >> of. >> political violence. are not treated with. impunity and are. investigated as. >> they should be. >> so additionally. president trump's. >> interim u.s. attorney. >> for washington, dc, ed martin, has set a deadline of today for members of his office to issue a preliminary report on the department's prosecutions of those capitol riot rioters before he joined the trump

administration. martin, of course, was a stop the steal advocate who spoke at the capitol on january 5th and was on the capitol grounds during the riot the next day as the mob breached the building. mark martin tweeted in part, like mardi gras in dc today, love. >> faith and joy. >> the internal review, which has been dubbed project 1512 because of the federal statute it deals with, deals specifically with the doj's charging of an obstruction of justice charge that the supreme court ruled was applied too broadly to some of these january 6th cases. and, lisa, i mean, this is someone who i mean, we can't say it more plainly than that. he was a stop the steal advocate. he was there pushing. >> the lie. >> that donald trump won that election. and here he is looking at the investigations. >> he is not only looking at the investigations, but he's basically doing a sweeping internal review. john, of those prosecutions, trying to investigate the investigators,

which is something pam bondi, who is now the nominee for attorney general, very famously said on television. before her nomination hearings. now, i recently obtained an internal email from ed martin to his. >> colleagues that. >> has previously been reported on by other outlets, but never before in its entirety. in the email, martin goes out of his way to single out former federal prosecutor ashley akers, who joins you on morning joe. earlier this week, akers resigned from the department late last week and has since publicly called martin's review a wild goose chase. martin wrote in part, quote, someone named ashley akers has been going on television badmouthing our work. and me, i have never met her. so i find her comments disconnected from reality. i will be reaching out to her. maybe she had issues with her supervisors or my predecessor. we will see if we can help her. alexis loeb, the federal prosecutor i spoke with yesterday, personally knows miss akers, and we have her first reaction to that email, saying she was unnerved by martin calling out akers by name. take a look. what did you think when

you heard about mr. martin's comments about miss akers? >> i found it chilling to name her specifically. >> for making comments. >> that don't seem disconnected from reality at all. miss akers comments reflected the. facts that the department proved at trial after trial after trial of these defendants. >> you mentioned that you found mr. martin's email chilling, and yet you're sitting here with me in a conference room doing an interview. why? >> it's important for people to understand. >> the facts about the cases. the facts. >> of what. >> happened at the capitol on january 6th. and it's also important for them to understand that these were not political prosecutions. they were. >> staffed by. >> career employees. >> of the department of justice. they were conducted in partnership with fbi agents from around the country. people of all political. persuasions came to work together on these cases because they understood that. >> it was.

>> wrong to assault officers, and it was wrong. to attack the capitol and the peaceful transfer of power on that day. >> lisa, a terrific and important interview. david, let's get you to weigh react to it, to weigh in on this idea of chilling, because it's not just looking backwards and investigating the investigators, but also sending a message about. >> any. >> possible investigations into the trump administration going forward. >> yeah, i mean, we talked about it, but along with many pardons was the pardon of the proud boys, the group that donald trump said during a presidential debate. stand back and stand by. so that's the message to the perpetrators of this. and we've seen this across the justice department and the fbi, people involved in any kind of investigation of donald trump are being reassigned. some of them are being reassigned to a new task force to prosecute officials in sanctuary cities who are seen as not enforcing federal immigration law. so this is payback. it's very clear to people people are very unnerved in the justice department and the fbi. and it's as far as i

know, unprecedented. and it is a chilling message. >> lisa, final word to you. >> i think it's important that people like alexis loeb have spoken out the bravery that she and folks like ashley akers and jason manning, who spoke with nbc news last week with ryan riley, have shown is remarkable. and yet the incentives for people like them to talk to folks like us, there is no incentive for them, because we can see that what ed martin is doing in collecting up all these documents as part of his preliminary review, that looks to me like the precursor to something more than an investigation that starts to look like i know exactly who to blame and where to lay that blame. and to the extent that that materializes into not just firings but prosecutions, there are reasons for folks to be scared. so i appreciate very much that alexis decided to speak with us. john. >> you might even say they're weaponizing the justice department. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin and nbc news senior executive editor for national security david rohde. thank you both very much. still ahead, we'll go live to reagan

national airport, where nbc's tom costello is standing by with more about the victims, 67 of them in that fatal mid-air crash. also, new details about the black boxes that have now been recovered from the wreckage. also ahead this morning, democratic senators chris of delaware and tim kaine of virginia will join our conversation. all of it when morning joe comes right back. >> hey, ryan. >> reynolds here for, i guess. >> my 100th mint commercial. no no. >> no no. >> no no no no no. >> no. >> i mean, it's unlimited premium. >> wireless for. >> $15 a month. >> i mean, honestly, when i started this, i thought i'd only have to do. >> like four of these. >> how are. there still people paying 2 or 3 times that much? i'm sorry, i shouldn't be. >> victim blaming here. yeah. anyway, it's still $15 a month, anyway, it's still $15 a month, so whenever you're ready. my mom used to tell me if you want to be a champion you got to be a champion at life. i got to watch her play at her highest from when i was born.

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>> we're learning more about the victims of wednesday night's midair collision over the potomac this morning. nbc news senior national correspondent % >> in that stunning moment of horror. flight 5342 was only minutes away from landing when the lives of its 60 passengers and four crew members suddenly ended. the violent collision with a u.s. army blackhawk helicopter, also killing three u.s. service members, an army captain, staff sergeant and chief warrant officer. 67 lives lost in an instant. and last night, as friends and family of the victims prayed for a miracle, there. >> was little hope. >> because after that collision in the sky, both aircraft plummeted into the potomac river. the icy waters that were only waist deep. >> in about 35 degrees. >> we spoke with dc's fire chief moments before he went to meet with those victims families. when you go into a meeting like

that, i mean. >> what goes. >> through your head and what. >> do you want to tell them? they're going. >> to ask us questions, and we're going to do our. >> best to answer. >> those questions with. >> the facts. >> the first. >> officer of the american airlines flight was sam lilly. his father posting. he was so proud when sam became a pilot. also on the flight, some of the country's most promising young figure skaters, who were in wichita at a highly selective training camp. >> they're our brothers and. >> sisters. >> and we're all very close to each other. >> the skating club of boston devastated. six affiliated with the club perished. olympic figure skater nancy kerrigan trained with the club as a teen. >> much like. >> everyone here. >> has been saying is. not sure how to process it. >> shoot. >> i'm sorry. >> for 1956 olympic champion tenley albright. the tragedy brought back memories of the 1961 plane crash that killed 18 u.s. figure skaters.

>> i really can't believe that it happened because i picture them right here. >> among those lost. now 13 year old skater gina hahn and her mother, jen. gina was known for her grace and musicality on the ice, and 16 year old spencer lane, who was traveling with his mom, christine spencer was known for his jumps, chronicling his progress on tiktok. his final post on instagram. this view from his plane window before takeoff. >> skating is a. >> very close. >> and tight. >> knit community. >> it's a. >> close, tight bond, and i think for all of us, we have lost family. >> also on board skating coaches and former world champions jenna shishkova and vadim naumov, the married couple leaves behind their son max, a skater hoping to qualify for the winter

olympics next year. brielle beyer was only 12 years old. her mom, justina magdalena, with her on the plane, remembered at her home rink in virginia. >> she's really, really talented and they were my inspiration as well. >> just heartbreaking. we heard a little bit earlier in the show from the father of spencer lane, the 16 year old skater who was inspired to get on the ice by nathan chen, the american olympic champion. and now he and his mother killed in that crash. tom llamas reporting there. the national transportation safety board has now recovered the two black boxes from the passenger flight involved in that mid-air collision. as of last night, crews had recovered about 40 bodies from the river. search efforts set to resume this morning. officials also discovered the plane's cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder. both have been taken to an ntsb lab for evaluation. let's bring in nbc news senior correspondent tom costello. he's inside reagan national airport for us. tom. good morning. where

does the investigation stand this morning? >> well, a couple of headlines this morning. to begin with, you mentioned that the flight data recorder, one of the black boxes, is now at the ntsb headquarters, just a mile away from here. they're going to look precisely at every piece of data as it relates to the performance of that plane. right. of the regional jet. they still need to get the flight data recorder, the black box off of that black hawk helicopter. the army helicopter. that's going to be critical because they want to confirm what the altitude was of that black hawk helicopter. if you look at some of the streaming data that we get on flight radar websites, for example, it suggests that the helicopter was flying at too high of an altitude higher than it was supposed to be flying. and in fact, in the same region or area, i should say, as that regional jet. but they want to get the black box off of that chopper to confirm that it was flying at a higher altitude than it was assigned. so that's going

to be critical. separately, i can tell you that the ntsb has brought into washington, dc to reagan airport, one of their own black hawk helicopter experts, himself a pilot from alaska. and that black hawk helicopter pilot is going to be their own eyes and ears as it relates to the black hawk investigation. because while they do have partners from the department of defense investigative team part of this investigation, they want their own black hawk expert in-house with the ntsb to double check the facts and to give them a reality check. separately, i can tell you that the ntsb met for several hours last night with family members who are here in the washington, dc area, updating them, briefing them on the investigation and the status. what the ntsb tries to do is always respect the families and the and the and the friends, the survivors of an accident and brief them before they brief the media and the public at large. and then there is a lot of focus, i will tell

you, willie, on the air traffic control tower. we reported on nbc nightly news last night that, in fact, there was one controller responsible on that night for both plane traffic and chopper pilot, traffic chopper pilot traffic. whereas normally there is one controller dedicated to choppers and one to planes, we're now told by a high level source within the investigation that, in fact, an air traffic control supervisor had allowed somebody to leave early, consolidating the position so that only one controller was doing both choppers and planes. now that's allowed, but it's not normal. and so the question is going to be, why did somebody leave early? and it really dovetails into this conversation we've been having for years about air traffic control, staffing levels at towers, and how many times we've had close calls across the country, including here at reagan airport and air traffic control. staffing was a concern. there simply weren't enough people in the tower for a particular incident. so again, air traffic control staffing

will be the concern and a focus of this investigation. and, you know, willie, you and i have talked on the air many times over the years that there are there's a shortage right now of about 10,000 air traffic controllers, and they are dramatically trying to ramp up, put more and more people through the air traffic control academy. the trouble is the rate of retirements, the rate of attrition is such that they're barely keeping up by putting people through the academy and pushing so many of them out into the workforce, and the washout rate is like 30%. so they've got multiple challenges here as it relates to air traffic control staffing. was that a contributing factor? we simply don't know. >> yeah. shortfall of 10,000 is just a massive number. and at some point you're going to see an impact from that. we were talking, tom, in our last hour to john cox, our colleague at nbc, the aviation expert. we asked him about your reporting, about what was going on in the air traffic control tower, about the just that there was one person there and he said, yes, that is not optimal. but as you point out, it is acceptable. he

would like to see two, but you can run it with one. and he also said, look, you listen to the air traffic control. you listen to that audio and the warning is given to the pilot. the responsibility, john says, for separation is on. at that point, the helicopter pilot to get in and fly behind the plane. john. john didn't. we lost tom costello. all right. well, let me turn then to former faa and ntsb investigator jeff guzzetti and former ntsb senior air safety investigator greg feith. guys, we'll get tom back in just a minute, but i want to put that to you. jeff, i can begin with you. just your assessment of what i was saying there about john cox, who was telling us in our last hour, not optimal to have one person in the tower, but you can do it that way. but at the end of the day, the clear message was delivered from the tower to the helicopter to look for the plane and come in behind it. not saying that to blame the helicopter pilot because we don't know what happened. there

could have been equipment failure, but in fact, you can have one person in the tower. what's your assessment of that? >> well, i would agree with captain cox. >> two things. >> can. >> be true. >> at once. >> you can have a. >> shortage of air traffic. controllers in a facility. but with regard to the specific. accident or event that. >> may have had. >> no. >> factor at all, when you listen to the air traffic control transcript, the controller. was busy, but was able to manage the traffic. and in this particular instance, maybe it would have been. more beneficial to have the same person manage both the helicopter and the airliner coming in. so we'll just have to wait and see what the investigation holds. >> for this. >> particular incident. willie. >> but yes. >> you know. >> i used to. >> work for. >> the department of transportation inspector general, and we would do audits all the time. there is a serious shortage of air. traffic controllers across the country. however, the faa recently

testified before congress, and they're really trying to lift the. >> limits and. >> get that pipeline. >> going to restore the. adequacy of the. >> staffing for air traffic controllers. >> we got tom costello back. tom, just to finish the thought, and we were just talking about this with jeff. the idea that there was only one air traffic controller, not optimal according to a lot of people. but as you reported, acceptable. what what's your assessment? you're so plugged in talking to people. was that is that actually acceptable just to have one person doing both jobs? >> it is acceptable. it is not optimal. and it it really is part of this broader conversation that we have had about how congested the reagan airport airspace can be, and specifically not just congested, but very dynamic. and really, as you know, we have this issue here in washington where air traffic cannot go over downtown

d.c. for national security reasons. and so you're kind of bottling all of the traffic up and down the potomac river, right. and then out beyond the potomac and into virginia. but you, because of the limitations of the reagan era space and then because of a very, very busy the runway, sorry, a very busy runway number one, which is right next to runway three three. it's in fact, runway one is the busiest in the country. and then on top of that, you've got the all the chopper activity. this creates a very, very dynamic situation here. and as a result of that, air traffic controllers and pilots need to be on their game. and so this is clearly going to be a focus of this investigation. is this going to be the determining factor for why this happened? we simply have no way of knowing that. and it is really premature to jump to that kind of a conclusion. you know, i think we should underscore that the ntsb really tries to take their time. i understand the president yesterday was suggesting that he

had already kind of come up with the reason why this might have happened, but the ntsb will methodically go through this and gather all of the data, all of the information, and then it will take them a good year before they have a final report. >> all right. tom costello reporting from reagan national airport. tom, thanks so much. greg, since we talked to you yesterday, we've got some new audio from air traffic control. we've got new information that the black box is now in the possession of the ntsb. what's your assessment of where this investigation goes from here? >> well, i. >> think. >> now with both boxes being recovered. >> you know. >> a lot of the. >> discussion that's. >> taken place over the last 24 to. >> 36 hours is the communication. >> they just talked about. >> both jeff and. >> tom talked about, you know, controller staffing. >> the problem. >> is. >> is we saw this. >> before. >> in lexington. kentucky with. >> the comair. accident where you. >> had one. >> controller wasn't he was. >> doing other duties, turned his back. didn't see. >> that that. >> aircraft had taxied onto the

wrong runway. >> took off and. >> we had 49. >> fatalities out of that accident. staffing has. continued to be an issue. however, the faa has tried to also curb that and increase the pipeline not only through the academy, but now they have a direct hire program out of universities that have accredited air. >> traffic control programs. >> so they're trying to. >> ramp that up. >> it just isn't. >> fast enough to. >> get these qualified folks. >> into the facilities. >> as far as the black boxes are concerned, the altitude is. >> the issue. >> was there an altimeter altimeter problem with the black hawk helicopter? did those folks did those pilots think they were at 200ft yet the. >> aircraft was at. >> 3 or. >> 350. >> maybe even 400ft. >> that's going to be critical. from the black box data. the fdr only tell the investigators. >> what the. aircraft was doing at any one point. >> in time and space. it's the cockpit voice recorder aspect.

what were. >> the crews. >> talking about? both the regional jet crew and the military pilots. during the course of this last probably minute and a half, two minutes prior to impact. >> jeff, two quick questions. just to follow up on that altitude issue, if the helicopter was at a higher altitude and it thought it was, how much would that would we look to the air traffic controllers to understand why that was the case, and how much would we look to a mechanical issue or a crew issue with the helicopter? and then the second thing quickly is we've this it's been said that there was only one person in the control tower at that time and that this was not normal, but it was not abnormal. do you have a sense can you quantify for us at all how often it might be the case that one person is left managing the planes and the helicopters, when normally it might be two? >> yeah. well, so just to answer your second question. >> first. >> there wasn't just. >> one person in the whole tower. there was one person working that position. local

control for all the airplanes landing. and taking off from the active. >> runway. >> as well as the helicopter corridor that i. >> mean. >> i hate to say it, but that's it's not normal, but it is adequate. it happens a lot with staffing. >> it's the system. >> is built. >> in such that if someone. >> does need to take a. >> break or, you know, you. >> can still have that one person manage. >> that one. >> position. >> in this. >> case local control adequately. >> the faa does. >> it all the time, and. >> there. >> are systems. >> in place. >> there's redundancy. >> in place to back up. >> that that person. >> with regard to your first question, if the helicopter was above that limit. >> of. >> 200ft above the ground, if it was flying at 300ft above the ground, you know, would the controller have been able to see that easily? and what should they have done about it? i'm not sure about that. that helicopter

route four corridor in washington, dc has a limit. it's a published limit. you don't go above 200ft. it's the pilot's onus to. stay underneath that level. if the aircraft goes. above that, i'm not quite sure. >> on what. >> kind of warning. >> systems. >> if any. >> a controller would have for that. >> so, greg, let me ask you the question. i asked john cox an hour or so back. there is some speculation that what might have happened here is that the helicopter pilot received warning from the air traffic controller. do you see the airplane ahead of you? we know there's an acknowledgment. yes, but maybe it was the wrong plane. now we can't say we. i'm not asking you to weigh in specifically here because we don't know yet. but is that just your from your experience, is that sort of thing happen, that sort of confusion sometimes, especially in a crowded airspac, where maybe that pilot was simply identifying the wrong aircraft and never saw the one that eventually struck? >> absolutely. >> when you look. at and you. >> have again, words have meaning, the controller calls. the black hawk pilots. >> and.

>> says, do you have the rj. >> in sight? >> and they respond, we have the. aircraft in sight. they never say. >> they. >> have an rj in sight. they say they have. >> an aircraft. >> in sight. and there were multiple. airplanes in that area, including another. rj that had just departed. you can see that actually in the video. so the question. >> is. >> did they actually. >> identify the rj that the. >> controller was referencing? >> we have. seen this in the past, especially. >> in san. >> diego. years ago, the psa 727 that collided with a single engine cessna. there were four other similar type aircraft in the vicinity of that 727. and so when the controller said, hey, do you have the cessna 172 at your 1:00 position? the crew said affirmative. we got it. well, that's not the aircraft that the controller. >> was actually. >> talking about. >> that's going to. >> be. >> critical for the ntsb to ferret out. what did that crew really identify? >> because at night, unlike. >> during the day, at night you don't see. a silhouette of.

>> an aircraft. >> you don't know if that's a 727 or an rj or a 737, whatever. you only see position lights just because of the dark night. now they if they were wearing night vision goggles, that brings another element into this discussion. >> former ntsb senior air safety investigator greg feith and former faa and ntsb investigator jeff guzzetti. so great to have your expertise. as the ntsb now begins the arduous work of figuring out what happened. thanks, guys so much. we appreciate it. president donald trump yesterday suggested diversity programs put in place by the biden and obama administrations, somehow caused wednesday night's tragedy. there's no evidence of that. nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett hake has more of the president's remarks. >> thank you very much. >> in a white house news. >> conference that began with. >> a somber. >> moment of silence. >> president trump. >> pivoting from prayer. >> i speak to you this morning in an hour of anguish for a

nation. >> to politics. >> i put safety first. obama, biden and the democrats put policy. >> first. >> suggesting without. evidence that democratic. >> policies at the faa. >> and. >> military. >> which president trump ended. >> last week with an executive. >> order. >> may have contributed. >> to the. >> mid-air collision. >> we have to have our smartest people. it doesn't matter what they look like, how they speak, who they are. it matters. intellect, talent. >> at one. >> point going after. >> biden. >> transportation secretary pete buttigieg. >> just got a good line of. he's run it right into the ground with his diversity. >> but reporters. >> pressing the. >> president. >> what evidence. >> did he have. >> that diversity. >> hiring caused the crash? >> it just could have been. >> and later, as he signed an order. >> to review faa. hiring decisions. >> the last four years. >> are you saying. >> race or. >> gender played a. >> role in this tragedy? >> it may have. >> i don't know. >> incompetence might have played a role. well, we'll let you know that. >> the president.

>> echoed. by the vice president and defense secretary. >> we want the best people at. >> air traffic control. >> the era. >> of dai. is gone. at the defense department. >> but the. >> comments sparking fierce backlash. >> buttigieg posting. >> despicable as families grieve. >> trump should be. >> leading. >> not lying. >> we put. >> safety first. >> the top senate. >> democrat responding. >> the president. >> of the. >> united states. >> to throw out idle speculation as bodies are still being recovered and families still being notified. it just turns your stomach. nbc's garrett haake reporting there. jonathan lemire, your latest reporting for the atlantic is titled the day trump became president. in it, john writes this just like in 2020, trump used a national calamity to try to score political points and denigrate his foes. 14 hours after a midair collision between an american airlines jet and a military helicopter outside of washington last night, the first crisis of the young administration a moment to

console a stunned and grieving nation. trump repeatedly implied the crash was the fault of his democratic predecessors and of die policies. trump's instinct after the tragedy was yet again to choose divisiveness on social media. within hours of the collision, he offered not only condolences, but conspiracy theories, as he did so often in his first term, his reacting to a crisis as an observer, and not as the president who has the resources of the federal government at his disposal and the responsibility of getting answers. trump showcased his instinct to immediately frame tragedies through his own ideological or political lens. facts be damned. john, you were in the room watching the president. most people, i guess, not surprised. even those who are hopeful that in a second term he could be different just in terms of the way he handled this. but on a practical note, as we just heard from the former ntsb investigators, we talked to getting way out ahead of any investigation, lobbing out these theories that perhaps serve his political purposes, but not the

investigation. yeah. phrase i heard a lot yesterday was not surprising, but still shocking. as you said, willie, i was in the room. it was so reminiscent of the covid briefings that he held routinely in 2020, when he would stand up there, you know, for over an hour at a time. in fact, he even had aides nudge the briefings later and later, closer to that 6:00 evening news slot to increase viewership. and he would offer conspiracy theories and false claims and joust with reporters. he thought that was doing him a lot of good. his aides significantly disagreed, particularly after that day where trump suggested that people inject disinfectant to stay safe. instead, some of his most senior aides believe those briefings helped him lose that election in that november. and it was very reminiscent yesterday where he again jousted with reporters. he went after some of our colleagues in there. hee hee hee. in a moment that should have been to console a nation, to unify a nation. he

did choose divisiveness yet again. he acted like an observer as opposed to someone who actually had the not just the opportunity and the resources, but the responsibility to get the answers. and he tried to score political points. katty. and it was also about shifting blame. this did happen under his watch. yes. only ten days into his administration, no one was going to say the president, united states was at fault for what happened, but he couldn't handle the idea that this is a crisis. suddenly he has to deal with. so he tried to pass the buck to others and made these wild claims without evidence that it was, whether it was president obama, president biden or these die policies to blame. >> yeah. president trump is clearly feeling very confident. he feels he can have fights. not only did he have it there in the press briefing room, he then went over afterwards and signed the executive memorandum, continuing the fight, if you like. he pretty much guaranteed there's not going to be any comeback from congress. he thinks that in the end, the court may be on his side. if any of these issues came to court in

in many ways. but i think what yesterday did underline this. i don't think anyone would suggest the fact that there was not an act, an faa director in place because the previous one had been asked to fire, be fired because elon musk had a gripe with him, would have led to this crash or not. i don't think anyone is suggesting that that chain of events caused the crash above the potomac, but donald trump's administration now has to take responsibility for problems. i mean, he owns any problems that arise in the country at the moment. donald trump owns those problems. he owns this crash because it happened on his watch. and it seems that, you know, watching him yesterday at that press conference, that was really aggravating to him. and so he tried to blame previous administrations, even though, as peter alexander did, an excellent real time fact checking job, the very policies that donald trump singled out people with physical disabilities, people he even mentioned people with dwarfism who had been hired by the faa.

those policies were instituted in 2019. in a memorandum that came while president trump was president. >> and again, you've been discussing this issue, even discussing some connection to what happened. i agree that terrible tragedy over the potomac, there's no evidence of that at this moment. and again, 65 families are picking up the pieces of their lives that were shattered suddenly with a phone call the other night. still ahead on morning joe, president trump's nominee for fbi director, kash patel, tries to make the case why he should lead the bureau. we'll talk to a member of the senate judiciary committee who questioned him during yesterday's confirmation hearing. at the same time, we're following new reporting about several top fbi officials being told to resign or face demotion. we'll get to all of that straight ahead on morning joe.

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elevated. design for thoughtful living. therma. >> do you plan to investigate? president trump's former fbi director, christopher wray? yes or no?

>> i have no plans in going backwards. i feel safe. >> how about james comey? do you plan to investigate him? >> senator, every investigation will be subject to the same. do you. >> plan to investigate james comey? who's on your list? >> i have no intentions of going backwards. >> how about bill barr? >> intention of using the constitution. >> how about bill barr? do you plan to investigate him? who is on your executive branch, deep state. and you say you're going to ferret out the deep state? >> no. yes or no? did not break. the law will be investigated. i have always rejected any violence against law enforcement, and i have included in that group is specifically addressed any violence against law enforcement on january 6th. and i do not agree with the commutation of any sentence of any individual who committed violence against law enforcement. >> do you think america is safer because president trump issued. >> these pardons. >> to. >> 1600 of these. >> criminal defendants, many of whom violently. assaulted our

police in capital? >> senator, america will be safe when we don't have 200,000 drug overdoses in two years. america will be safe. we don't have 50,050 homicides in a day. >> you just won't answer the question. >> kash patel, president trump's nominee for fbi director, looks poised to be confirmed by the senate along party lines after yesterday's hearing with the judiciary committee. republicans look willing to stand behind the president's pick despite all those controversial comments. and yes, the enemies list published in his book in 2023. in his hearing, patel walked back some of his most contentious claims, including that he would exact revenge on president trump's enemies. and he broke with the president in one way, at least, on the decision to pardon all of the january 6th rioters, including the most violent of them. let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, who's been watching this very closely for us. obviously, kash patel, ken has been circled on the calendar as perhaps one nominee who is going

to be tough to get through, but does it look like republicans will come around here? >> it absolutely does, willie. in fact, it didn't seem from yesterday that they even need to come around. they're already there. >> we heard. almost no. skeptical questioning. from republicans. >> and the. >> democrats. >> i have to say, were frankly pretty disorganized and asked the same questions over and. >> over again. particularly about patel's involvement with. >> a quote unquote, january. >> 6th choir. >> some january 6th rioters that he. >> recorded a song with. >> they hammered that. >> over and over again, as if that's. going to. >> cause a republican senator to vote against him. >> it just isn't. and as you said, he said all the right things. he including distancing. >> himself from the. >> pardons of people who assaulted. >> police officers and promising that the fbi wouldn't be political, would be focusing. >> on crimes. so that's that was important. and that reassured any wavering republicans, it seemed. >> to me. >> but of course, there's. >> what kash. >> patel is. >> saying, and then there's what's. actually happening

behind. >> the scenes. >> at the. >> fbi, which are two very. >> different things, guys. >> yeah, it's amazing, isn't it, ken? not just with kash patel, with so many of these nominees that in those confirmation hearings, republicans are willing to swallow whole what they hear over those couple of hours in the hearing and not what he said for most of his adult life, including in a book he published less than two years ago. >> yeah. >> that's right. and i think there's. >> a contrast, actually, between the patel hearing and the tulsi gabbard hearing. >> where democrats. >> were very focused and. >> working together. >> and asking the kind of. questions that they knew would trouble republicans. and you heard some, some very clear republican. skepticism in. that hearing about tulsi. >> gabbard. whether they're going to actually vote against her is another question. but in terms of kash patel. >> you know, they. >> were completely on board. it's also worth noting that thom tillis, one of the senators who introduced kash. >> patel, sort of. >> shepherded him. >> at the hearing, was even. stronger on the issue of the pardons. he said that. >> he's been telling capitol police. >> officers that the pardons, quote unquote. sucked and that

the. >> president must have gotten bad advice. >> when he pardoned. >> people who assaulted. >> police officers. >> so as we talk about the possibility of kash patel leading the fbi, ken, you have some new reporting this morning on several top fbi officials being told to resign or face demotion. what more can you tell us? >> yeah, that's that's right. willie, there's. and depending. >> on who you talk to, they've either been told they're facing. >> demotion or. >> will be fired. >> although these are career. >> civil servants, so they can't easily be fired. look, there is a purge happening. >> at the top levels. >> of the fbi. >> that is. >> unprecedented in american history. >> louis freeh. >> when he came in. >> in the 90s, he sent a lot of people from headquarters into the field. >> but that was. >> a different context. he was a career fbi person hired under normal circumstances. >> here you have partizan. >> warriors who are doing this. >> there are people who are. >> already in the director's office. >> one of whom. >> worked for jim jordan, one of the fbi's most. >> ardent critics. and what's really interesting. >> is kash patel. >> was asked about the. >> possibility of mass firings. >> by senator. >> cory booker. i think. >> we have that sound. let's

play that. >> are you aware of any plans or discussions to punish in. >> any way. >> including termination. >> fbi agents or personnel associated. >> with. >> trump investigations? >> senator, just to be clear, i did not participate in any of those d.o.j. >> that's a yes or no question. are you aware of any. >> plans or discussions to punish. >> in any way. >> including termination, fbi agents or personnel associated. >> with. >> trump investigations? >> i am not. >> i am not aware. >> of. >> so within. >> two hours. >> of that. >> statement, these this purge. >> started happening. >> and all of the executive assistant directors, the sort of top managers. >> in washington who run. >> the bureau, were told that. >> they were being demoted or that or they were going to be fired and they had to leave their jobs. >> these are people who. >> had been promoted. >> under chris wray. >> and a. >> couple of. >> special agents in charge. including some people who had. >> who touched the. >> mar-a-lago investigation. we're told the same thing. and this. >> came after. of course, many.

>> of the prosecutors. >> who worked for jack smith in the. justice department were essentially fired. >> so there is a purge going on. >> donald trump is trying to it. >> wasn't enough. >> that he. >> got elected president, made the cases. >> go away. he is now. he and. >> his. >> people now appear to be. >> trying to exact. >> retribution and. remake the top law enforcement. agency and the justice department and rewrite history. and so, despite. >> what kash patel said. >> yesterday about moving forward. >> and not. >> looking backward, it's not clear that that's how the fbi is going to be run, guys. >> nbc's ken dilanian, with that new reporting, you ought to go online and read it. ken, thanks so much. joining us now, democratic senator chris of delaware. he serves on both the foreign relations and judiciary committees. senator, good morning to you. question. kash patel in that hearing yesterday on whether he works for the american people or for the white house. let's take a look at that exchange. >> who is the director. >> of the fbi work for. >> mr. patel? >> senator, thank you for that question. the immediate report for the director of the fbi is

into the office of the deputy attorney general. then that report is taken into the office of the attorney general and ultimately the white house and the chain of command there. so the fbi works for the white house? no, the fbi is a member of the department of justice and has been the long standing application. >> who does. >> the department of. >> justice work for? they're in the executive branch, as all members do at the white house. >> attorney general bondi gave a different answer. >> when i asked him the same. >> question that they work for the. >> constitution. >> and the american people. >> so, senator, take us inside that room. your assessment for people who may have just seen a couple of soundbites, your assessment of kash patel's performance, and many have said it was a performance because so much of what he said in that room contradicts everything he said for many years now. >> well, there was a stark difference between years of public. >> statements. in his book government. >> gangsters, on many podcasts and. >> speeches and rallies. where kash patel talked openly, frequently about retribution against the political opponents

of president trump. >> and his testimony. >> yesterday i focused. >> on two. >> core questions that i thought had. >> some chance of troubling. >> republicans if. >> they were listening on the committee. >> one was, who would you work for as director of the fbi? >> and the. other was, if given. >> an illegal. >> or unconstitutional order, would you. >> be willing to. >> disobey it and to resign if pressed? i asked that exact same question of chris wray. he answered appropriately that. >> he would. >> resign rather than carry out any illegal order. and on the question you just played, who would you work for? >> he answered who you. >> report to, and even. >> when pressed and given a. >> chance to answer differently a second. >> time. >> he kept focusing on the fbi director, works through the doj. for the president. that's the core issue here. the fbi needs to be politically independent. and i asked him several different ways over two rounds. would you not obey an order if directed by president trump,

either to stop an investigation into. >> someone connected. >> to him or in the white house, or refused to open. >> an. investigation if it was. >> unfounded or unethical. or unconstitutional? i was not at all reassured by kash. >> patel's answers yesterday. >> i will vote against him. for fbi director, but i thought it was important to focus in a calm, clear way on the questions that might concern republicans. and frankly, i'm not persuaded that they were listening. >> to what was. >> being said yesterday. >> and paying. >> attention to the very troubling long record mr. patel has of partizan statements that suggest a focus on retribution. >> yeah, it doesn't look like very many republicans are interested in in voting no on him. a lot has been happening this week. and then of course, we've had the plane crash as well. one thing that has got perhaps a little bit less attention that i know that you've been focused on, is the total freed on freeze on us foreign assistance? and i've been here. my daughter is a data scientist. she works in malaria

research. her job has been cut. malaria is actually one of the things that senator rubio stood up in his confirmation hearing and said was very beneficial to the united states. what's the impact? but i'm more interested in what is the impact on the united states of cutting these aid programs around the world, even if it is only for 90 days? i mean, let's say it's all reinstituted in 90 days. what's the damage that's been done to america's not just reputation, but national security here. >> so three things. >> on that, if. >> i could. we had a hearing on foreign relations yesterday about china and the us. competition globally with china for the hearts and minds, the. >> allegiance. >> the engagement of people around. the world. >> where china is doing very well. >> china is advancing rapidly in. >> their engagement in. >> africa. >> in the caribbean. >> in central. >> and south america. >> and southeast asia. and part of the point of our being a reliable partner, decades of partnership in global. public health in development is so that we can say we are a reliable partner, freezing all of these programs for three months means many of them will never come

back. folks who get laid off for 90 days are going to go do something else. many of the small contractors. >> the businesses. >> the local employees are being let go or shut down. it is true. secretary rubio. >> has helped to. >> ensure there is. >> a humanitarian exemption, but. >> there's lots of work that's done. to help promote democracy, to push back on chinese and russian disinformation, to monitor diseases. we were just talking about there is an ebola outbreak in uganda. there's a marburg outbreak in tanzania. >> these are both. >> lethal diseases that spread rapidly. the united states plays a key. role in keeping us safe from threats that come from abroad, public health threats, and in keeping our partners and allies safe and in helping them. >> by showing. >> we're not a reliable and trustworthy ally. this 90 day freeze, which may go on longer, i think, puts our safety and security and our reputation at risk. >> senator, good morning. the trump administration did say that making the revised the aid freeze said that for life

threatening instances, they would get it there. we'll have to see what happens. but i wanted to talk to you about another matter of our relationship with international partners, neighbors closest, in fact, mexico and canada who are subject to tariffs. donald trump president trump again yesterday said that though some specifics are being worked out still, that 25% tariffs for both those countries would go into effect tomorrow. talk to give us your reaction to that. what would that mean? >> so president trump. on the. >> day he. >> accepted the nomination at the republican convention, said, on my first day as president. >> we. >> will begin making america affordable again. by bringing down costs and millions of americans who voted. >> for donald trump. >> according to polling, principally did because they thought costs were too high. if you think costs are too high now, wait for a 25% tariff, which is really a sales tax on. >> all the. >> fruit coming in from mexico. >> on all the softwood lumber. >> coming in from canada. if we've got a housing affordability crisis, putting a

tariff on all the building supplies that come into our country from canada, if we have a shock of prices at the grocery store problem, putting. >> a tariff on all the. fruit that comes. >> in from mexico, those are just two concrete examples. >> will only. >> increase costs. some analysts say the price at the pump will go up $0.07 a gallon immediately, and both canada and mexico. will impose countervailing tariffs. >> president trump. >> doesn't seem to understand this. >> he says over and over that foreign. >> companies or foreign. >> countries will pay these. >> no they won't. >> americans will pay. >> them at the gas pump, at. >> the grocery store and. >> in their housing prices. also, why on earth would we put. tariffs on a partner and ally like canada that poses no threat whatsoever to the united states? so senator kaine and i are introducing a bill that would require congress to sign off on tariffs. against close allies and partners in the last administration. in his first weeks, president trump slapped. >> tariffs on. >> close partners and allies like australia, the united

kingdom, canada alarming and annoying partners that we've relied on for decades. we gave the president. the authority to unilaterally put tariffs in place decades ago. >> because we didn't. >> imagine congress at the time only thought it would happen in the context of a war or against an adversary, not against our close partners and allies. >> and all of this predicted by so many people during the campaign. tariffs equal higher prices. this is on consumers. and here we are, democratic senator chris of delaware. senator, thanks, as always for your time. we appreciate it. thank you. still ahead this morning, a look at business before the bell. as apple reports its best ever earnings despite slowing sales of the iphone. we'll tell you what's behind that. when cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us. and as we head to break a special event this weekend on sunday, today, our very first sunday sit down live, and we chose the hottest stand up comedian in the world right now, nate bargatze, a man who sells out arenas, madison square garden, nashville, all

over the world. we got a group of our audience, our viewers, with their big yellow sunday mugs at city winery in new york city for a live conversation with nate, a special presentation of sunday sit down live coming up this weekend on sunday. today over on nbc. and we'll be right back here with morning joe. >> thanks for calling. >> consumer cellular. >> ranked. >> number one in network. >> coverage and customer satisfaction. >> hi. >> my friend. >> linda has you guys. it gets way better coverage than i do. sounds like. >> linda. has you beat. >> not at bowling. >> you're breaking. >> up. >> a little. are you really ranked. >> number one in coverage? >> yep. and plans start at just $20. >> oh. >> we could. >> afford lessons for linda. >> you're embarrassing yourself. >> at least. >> my phone works. >> switch to the carrier. >> ranked number one. >> ranked number one. >> in network (♪♪)

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podcasts. >> the terrorist group hamas has issued a statement this morning naming the next set of hostages to be released tomorrow as part of the ceasefire deal with israel. the release is expected to include american keith siegel as part of the fourth hostage prisoner exchange with israel. the terrorist group yesterday released eight more hostages, three israeli citizens and five thai nationals who were captured nearly 16 months ago. seven of the eight hostages were handed over to the international red cross in front of the destroyed home of killed hamas leader yahya sinwar. they were led by armed soldiers through a packed crowd of onlookers. the chaotic scene caused israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu to delay the planned release of ten 110 excuse me, palestinian prisoners. those prisoners eventually were released later in the day, after the israelis received assurances from ceasefire mediators. a handover like that would not happen

again. but we'll see, john. yeah we will. this is really traumatic images there of the release. you can see the fear in her face. let's now bring in israeli journalist yaron. her recent book, ten seven 100 human stories, recounts the events of october 7th from the perspective of victims and first responders. last week, the jewish book council recognized lea's work with its jewish book of the year award. and lea, thank you so much for joining us this morning. first, let's just start there with these signs of progress that there are hostages who have come out over these last couple of weeks. the world has been moved by these emotional scenes of reunion with their families at the hospitals. what are you what's going through your mind as you see these? >> you know, one of the most interesting and. >> important things to. >> understand about these hostages. >> who. >> were just released. >> is that they represent what. >> netanyahu and his. >> right wing coalition. >> fear. >> the most. their responsibility for this failure. >> five of the.

>> hostages just released last. >> week were young. >> female soldiers. >> who were. >> 18, 19. >> 20 years. >> old and are among. >> the only group of people. >> who warned israelis. >> that this. >> war is coming. months and. >> weeks before. >> the attack. they were doing this. >> job name. >> squatters or. >> not, in. >> hebrew, when they're needed to sit. >> and stare. >> at the border. >> with gaza for. hours and. hours and report. >> to their commanders if they see any suspicious. >> activity of hamas. >> and months and weeks before the attack. they did. >> they reported. >> and you know what they were told, girls, you're just the eyes. >> you're not the brain. and their. >> reports were. >> dismissed. now, on this tragic. >> day. >> 16 of the spotters were killed. >> and seven. >> were taken hostage. five are just came back home. >> to. >> this amazing. >> images and days. of joy and relief. >> in israel. >> but it really makes you think about.

>> this larger. >> overlooked gender aspect of. >> this war. because do you know how many women do we have in the israeli. >> cabinet of war? >> none. how many. >> women are there. >> in the. negotiation teams about the hostages? >> none. and in the palestinian side and the hamas side? >> none. >> so in. >> both sides of this conflict, in these days, when we're thinking about the. >> future. >> we need to understand that we have only men in decision making processes. >> well, that's certainly an interesting, interesting dynamic there. and you mentioned so you mentioned the politics of this. you know, the cease fire here, there's been long held speculation that prime minister netanyahu would face increased scrutiny once the hostilities stopped, or at least were paused. are you starting to see that now that that there are more questions about, you know, some of perhaps the legal issues that dogged him even before october 7th, but also his handling of this crisis and the war. dantonio is. >> using his visit next week to the us to excuse himself for

his. discussions in court. absolutely. >> and katie, as lee just said, prime minister netanyahu expected to visit president trump at the white house in the coming days, perhaps as soon as next week. >> yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what policy is discussed there and how much prime minister netanyahu is willing to bend to donald trump's will. lee, i'm interested in why you wrote the book as you did. you describe it as a first line of defense for a history book. it's come out very close to the events themselves. what are you trying to achieve, and how are you looking at how israelis and the world interpret the events of october the 7th? >> i wanted to allow my readers. >> to understand. >> the israeli-palestinian conflict in a. >> different way. >> not through narratives. politicians try to dictate from above, but from the real human stories of the everyday. people who lived and died on the gaza border. so for months and months, i conducted hundreds of interviews with these bereaved

families and friends and first responders. >> and i. >> asked them about these people's lives, about their beliefs and their communities and their families histories, going back through two and three generations to when the conflict started. so some chapters in the book start in the 40s and the 50s and the 80s, and we get to see how these families and communities. >> were. >> affected by this conflict long before ten seven. the personal and the bigger political historical picture are woven together. i feel like understanding the human stories gives us a window to a real understanding of this horrible conflict. >> and the important book. ten, seven. 100 human stories is indeed on sale now. author and jewish book of the year award winner, lee yaron. lee, congratulations. thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you for having me. >> still ahead here on morning joe, democratic senator tim kaine of virginia will be our guest as the federal

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government building by a wall street journal reporter reveal new details on the rapid collapse of syria's government

last month. while the regime publicly played down the rebel advance, its own soldiers were withdrawing in a, quote, crazy and spontaneous way, according to one senior officer. the documents say syrian troops fled in a, quote, hysterical manner, leaving weapons and military vehicles behind. in a meeting of armed groups this week, the country's de facto leader abolished the constitution and declared himself president. back here in the states, harvey weinstein will be back on trial in new york city in april. the disgraced producer is accused of three sex crimes there. his earlier conviction was overturned last year after the court made an error in deciding which witnesses were allowed to testify. last year, a grand jury indicted weinstein on a new charge a separate 16 year sentence in california, though not affected. and meta is paying $25 million to settle a lawsuit from president donald trump over the company's decision to suspend his accounts after the

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>> elevated design. >> for thoughtful living. thoma. >> good morning and welcome to morning joe. it is friday, january 31st. with us this morning, the co-host of our fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics, and us special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. our top story this morning again, the crash at dca. two nights ago, the national transportation safety board has recovered. now two black boxes from the passenger flight involved in the mid-air collision with an army helicopter near reagan national

airport. the american airlines plane was coming from wichita, kansas, on wednesday night. it was making its final approach to the airport, with a total of 64 people on board. the black hawk helicopter from fort belvoir was conducting a training mission with three soldiers aboard. the aircraft crashed into the potomac river. both. all 67 people involved were killed as of last night. crews recovered about 40 bodies from the potomac. search efforts are set to resume this morning. officials also discovered the plane's cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder. both have been taken to a lab for evaluation by the ntsb. the cause of the crash has not yet been determined, but there are some concerns this morning over the level of staffing in the air traffic control tower the night of the crash. typically, reagan national airport has one controller for planes and another for helicopters, but a source with knowledge of the situation tells nbc news on wednesday there was only one

controller handling both aircraft. while that is not ideal, it is acceptable under faa standards. new air traffic control audio captured the moment leading up to the crash, and the immediate reaction afterward. >> urging flight. antifa. d.o.j. crash crash crash. this is a learn three crash crash, crash. this is layer three. we're looking for a aircraft versus a helicopter in the potomac in the area of reagan national. fire command. the accident happened in the river. both the helicopter and the plane crashed in the river. it's east of the approach end of runway three three. it was probably out in the middle of the river. i just saw a fireball, and then it was just gone. so i haven't seen anything since they hit the river. but it was a crash and a helicopter that hit, i would say

maybe a half mile off the approach end of 330. >> some chilling audio there. meanwhile, we're learning more about some of the victims who died on wednesday night in that collision above the potomac. the pentagon has not released the names of the three people aboard the downed blackhawk helicopter, but defense secretary pete hegseth said it was a fairly experienced crew. in his words, family members have confirmed the deaths of the crew on board the american airlines flight, including the pilot, first officer and two flight attendants. the plane's passengers included more than a dozen figure skaters, some as young as 12 years old coaches and parents, with them returning from a training camp following the 2025 u.s. figure skating championships in wichita, which, as i said, is where the flight originated. two time olympic figure skating medalist nancy kerrigan spoke about the tragedy during an emotional news conference yesterday at the prestigious skating club of boston, of which she is an alumna. >> much like.

>> everyone here. >> has been saying is. >> not sure how to process it. oh, shoot. >> i'm sorry. >> okay. >> which is. >> why i'm here. >> i think it's a shock. >> i was. >> watching. >> i wasn't. >> woken up in the morning and saw it. >> i was. >> watching. >> like, all night. so i probably looked tired, but. >> and then when you. >> find. >> out. >> you know. >> you know, some of the people on the plane, it's. it's. >> even a bigger blow going. through something tragic, not like this, but myself, that the community's stood. >> behind me. >> and i grateful for that. >> and so. >> it's my turn now to hopefully be here. i'm not sure what it is to do maybe get someone a cup of coffee, but a hug. i'm here for hugs. i don't know. it's just i

want to be able to give back what i feel like i got. >> the main lesson. >> i think. >> learned in. >> skating is you get back up, keep on trying, and. even when it's hard, you get. >> back up. >> even when you're crying, hurt, pain, you get back. up and move forward. it's not easy, but that's what we all have to do now together. >> kerrigan was flanked there by some of the legends of american figure skating. two young skaters, members of the skating club of boston, along with parents and two coaches, were on board the flight. also among those lost, five members of a washington area based labor union. a professor at the howard university school of law. a group of friends returning from a duck hunting trip, an attorney, and many more. some of the victims loved ones spoke to reporters yesterday. >> it's just. >> feels crazy that it happened to us, to be honest. i mean,

it's like. >> you see these things happen. >> in the news. >> you see them. >> happen in other countries. and then i show up to. >> the airport. >> and my wife's not responding. and i look on twitter and i see that it's her flight. >> it was really just kind of a force of nature. and about three years ago saw nathan chen in the olympics and decided, hey, i could do that. he was just was like a phenom and just loved it. and it wasn't. anyone pushing him. he was just somebody who loved it. and had natural talent, but also just worked every day. kind of just felt like a nightmare and was hoping i would wake up and it would be that. but it's a new reality that we just have to work through together. joining us now live from reagan national airport. nbc news correspondent aaron gilchrist. aaron, you've been on this story from the very earliest hours. what more do we

know today about the investigation? >> well, the investigation continues, obviously, willie, we know that the ntsb has taken control of the investigation part of this incident. we know that divers were in the water really, from the first minutes after this crash happened. up until late yesterday, they suspended the search and recovery operation last night. they will be back in the water today from the dc fire department and several other agencies that have been helping with the recovery effort here. we also know that the ntsb has about 50 people here in this region that are working on this incident, and they will be on the water with those divers today, again, trying to find pieces of what will really be information. they are on a fact finding mission. the ntsb is to figure out exactly the how and why of this incident, what caused this crash, and what they can do to prevent a similar incident from happening in the future. as you noted, we understand from our local

station here in dc that about 40 of the victims have been recovered at this point from both the plane fuselage and the helicopter as well. the plane broke into at least three pieces when this crash happened the other night. and so investigators, divers were in the water searching for initially survivors and then of course, trying to recover. now the remains of all of those victims, an integral part of what the dc fire department has been trying to do. the medical examiner in the city is now tasked with identifying those remains and making sure they are ultimately returned to their families when the divers go back into the water today, we understand they'll be looking for additional parts, anything that would be a part of the salvage operation. the ntsb will take control of those elements, as they have with the black boxes that were in the airplane. they already have those, and they start to try to piece together a story to figure out what was going on on the plane, in the cockpit, in the helicopter, in the moments before this crash happened. and

that will inform all that. they ultimately will determine the ultimately, they try to determine what caused this crash to happen and all that information, along with interviews they'll do with people who were in the tower here at reagan national. all that information will come together. it will be months before we have some real solid answers from the ntsb, willie. but as you might imagine, the investigation is getting a lot of attention. and this is something that will be a really a central focus of the ntsb as they go forward with the search and recovery of pieces and trying to determine a cause here. >> and, as you say, just extraordinary work by those first responders. the fact that d.c. fire and ems has already searched all the river that it can access at this point is just extraordinary. and we hope that they find the remainder of those bodies today. nbc's aaron gilchrist at reagan national airport in washington. aaron, thanks so much. let's bring in nbc news aviation analyst john

cox, who's a former pilot and accident investigator with more than 20 years of experience and really has been guiding us through this over the last 24 hours. john, thanks for being with us. i want to go back just to a few minutes ago. we got some of that new air traffic control audio, the moments before the collision and then the moments after. did you hear anything new? did we learn anything new from from what we heard there? >> willie, i don't think we've heard anything actually new. we knew yesterday when the first atc tapes were released, that the controller asked the helicopter if they could see the regional jet. the helicopter acknowledged it. the controller told him to pass behind the jet, and at that point it becomes the responsibility of the helicopter crew to maintain visual separation from the jet. what happened in the minutes after that? we don't know yet, and that's going to be one of the central questions and central areas of focus for the ntsb is

what happened from the time that they acknowledge that they see the jet up to the point of impact. >> so, john, any concerns from your end about this new reporting this morning that there was only one controller in the tower at the moment of the collision, the faa saying it's not normal, but it is acceptable. what do you make of that? >> well, i think that it says that the staffing was below optimum. but here again, once the helicopter crew says that they see the rj, they are then responsible to maintain separation from the jet. so whether there's one controller or two, the responsibility for separation at that point resides with the helicopter crew. >> john, thank you again for joining us this morning. there have been some speculation in the last 24 hours or so, because we've heard the audio of the helicopter crew acknowledging they see the jet. some have wondered if perhaps the helicopter crew saw the wrong

jet that was acknowledging a different aircraft and not the one from wichita, which it would definitely collide later. collide. now we don't know for sure. so i'm not asking you to weigh in as if that's what you think happened here, but is that the. >> sort. >> of thing that is possible? have you seen, perhaps in previous incidents where pilots ppe helicopter, these helicopter pilots, you know, with low visibility, you know, hard to see what's going on. so many lights, crowded airspace. does that sound like something that could be possible to you? >> it's certainly something that ntsb will look at if they misidentified the airplane, then this could explain the flight path of the helicopter. we don't know that yet. and it may be very hard to determine. they will certainly look to see the angle at which the helicopter pilots would have seen the approaching rj, and potentially the one behind it. so that question is going to get a lot of attention. but as it stands right now, this morning, we don't have an answer for that.

>> and let's also talk about elevation reporting yesterday that the helicopter may have been a little higher than it should have been. just speak to us. you broadly, perhaps in a crowded airspace like this. you know, we talked yesterday about that dca runway is either seeing a plane land or take off every minute, every minute or two, you know, how important is it and how difficult is it to juggle these various aircrafts at various elevations? because it is, of course, a multi-dimensional space here. >> the term elevation is unusual in aviation. it's normally altitude. the fact that if the helicopter was above 200ft, then they were out of the airspace. they were cleared to fly in. i have landed on that runway many, many times. i've had helicopters go below me many times. so the flight path of the helicopter and the rj are going to be examined in great detail. if the helicopter was above 200ft, then it presents a problem and that

it could be one of the issues that are contributing or causal to this tragedy. >> john, can we talk about the crowding more broadly at reagan? you've talked about landing there with helicopters around you as well. we know now that there are stories from pilots over the last couple of years of at least two incidents of near misses where planes had to take evasive action to avoid helicopters as they came in to land. we had members of congress just last year. a group of them expressed concerns about the potential for risks because of the number of flights that are now landing at reagan. do you think it needs reagan airport and its schedule, and the number of flights that are landing, as well as the military aircraft there? does that? does that need revisiting? >> i don't think it needs to be looked at, but we have used these procedures for decades and safely, effectively. and it's i won't say it's totally routine.

reagan is a challenging airport. i always enjoy flying in and out of there because it does require skill, and it is a satisfying feeling to be able to get the jet where it needs to be on speed. but before we start making major changes, we need to recognize these procedures have worked really well for many, many decades, so i'm hesitant to say blanketly oh, we should change it when we've had this level of success. have there been cases? certainly where there have been conflicts, but they've been resolved safely. so i think we just need to be careful before we make any changes. >> i guess what i'm asking is we know that the number of flights is increasing every year out of reagan, from congressional demand, from the demand of this city that is growing. the number of runways hasn't increased in decades. is there a point at which you have to assess? we just have too many flights for

the size of this airport. or are you saying, actually we can carry on exponentially expanding the number of flights and still keep the airport safe? >> there's certainly a limit, but it's the separation limits that are already in place so that the there is a limit about how many aircraft per hour that can come in and out of reagan. and we've been able to use that successfully for a really long time. does that mean that there's no growth possible? i think we're going to have to look at that. but i don't think it's fair to say categorically, okay, we have too many airplanes. we'll have to go cut reagan back. i don't i don't think that the statistics validate that. i don't think that that warrant that. so i think it's something to be looked at. and so long as we maintain the current separation standards, i think it's proven to be safe. >> so, john, the ntsb now has those two black boxes, the

flight data recorders, to help with the investigation. we'll be looking at all the evidence that we've seen publicly. we just heard that air traffic control back and forth, as you say, it looks like perhaps pilot error involved here that they were given the warning, the pilot about the plane perhaps saw the wrong plane. we don't know yet. but where will the investigation go from here? now that they do have those black boxes? >> they'll certainly get all the data they can from the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder, particularly the cockpit voice recorder, will give insight into what the pilots knew and didn't know. and willing to say that we know that we feel like that it's a pilot error or accident. i think that's premature at this point. we know what the helicopter pilots said, and we know the flight path until we can very carefully look. and that track of these airplanes or these aircraft, i think that we have to keep an open mind. everything is still on the table right now as far as the investigators are concerned.

>> and the. >> looking at equipment failure as well as a possibility. but we'll just have to wait and see here. nbc news aviation analyst john cox. we're so lucky to have you on days like these. we appreciate you, john. thanks. and still ahead on morning joe, president trump facing blistering criticism this morning for suggesting diversity programs are to blame for wednesday night's air disaster. we'll show you those new remarks and the reaction. plus, the latest from capitol hill is three of the president's most controversial nominees appeared before lawmakers for confirmation hearings yesterday. we are back in 90s. >> you've got a subscription for streaming movies and music, maybe. >> even. >> one for food. but what about when it's your water line that's streaming? repairs are expensive. good contractors, hard to find. a plan from homeserve is like a subscription

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know. >> he's a dreamer, frank. >> elena kagan and doug. >> well, i'll be that bird. really? did it. >> only pay for what you need. >> liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. >> have you spoken to any of the families of the victims of the plane crash? >> i don't want to. >> comment on that. >> do you have a plan to go visit. >> the site. >> or meet with any? i have a plan. >> to visit, not the site. because what did you tell me? what's the site? the water. or to meet him. >> down there? >> i don't have a plan to do that, but i will be meeting with some people that were very badly hurt with their family member, obviously. but i'll be meeting with some of the families. >> yeah. >> president trump yesterday with that flippant response to reporters saying, what do you want me to do, go swimming, to go to the site of that tragedy over the potomac river yesterday and saying he's going to meet with people who are very badly hurt. sadly, there are no people who are very badly hurt. they're all presumed dead this morning. earlier in the day, trump appeared in the white house

briefing room, where he suggested diversity programs put in place by the biden and obama administrations somehow caused wednesday night's tragedy. >> you must have only the highest standards for those who work in our aviation system. i changed the obama standards from very mediocre at best to extraordinary. i put safety first. obama, biden and the democrats put policy first, and they put politics at a level that nobody's ever seen. they put a big push to put diversity into the faa's program. the faa is actively recruiting workers who suffer severe intellectual disabilities, psychiatric problems, and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hiring initiative spelled out on the agency's website. can you imagine they actually came out with a directive to white, and we want the people that are

competent. >> i'm trying to figure out how. >> you can. >> come to the conclusion right now that diversity had. >> something to do with. >> this crash. >> because i have common sense, okay. and unfortunately, a lot of people don't. we want brilliant people doing this. >> so again, the president going to the briefing room yesterday as they were still pulling the bodies out of the potomac, suggesting it was die that caused this disaster. the president, citing diversity standards imposed by previous administrations. the washington post, is fact checking the president's claims this morning, the paper reporting the obama administration in 2013 instituted a new hiring system for air traffic controllers that introduced a biographical questionnaire to attract minorities underrepresented in the controller corps. but trump, in his first term, left the policy in place. and the faa, under trump in 2019, launched a program to hire controllers using the very criteria he decried at his news conference.

nbc's peter alexander pressed the president on that. the cited faa. >> text that you. >> read is real. >> but the implication that. >> this. >> policy is. >> new, or that it stems from efforts. that began under president biden or the transportation secretary. pete buttigieg, is. >> demonstrably false. it's been on. >> the faa website. you know. >> it's on the website, the faa's website. >> it was there in 2013. >> it was there. >> for the entirety. >> what i read, it. >> was there. >> for the. >> entirety of. >> your administration to. >> so my question. >> is. >> why didn't you change. >> the policy. >> during your first administration? >> didn't change it. i changed the obama policy, and we had a very good policy. and then biden came in and he changed it. >> he did not change the policy again. and jonathan lemire, the fact that we're even having this conversation, this semantic argument over who put the policy in place as some kind of suggestion that it is what led to a helicopter flying into a passenger jet, killing 67 people without any evidence? why are we even talking about that to begin with? but you wrote about this for the atlantic yesterday, about the president behaving

like he's still running a campaign, or that he's a businessman sitting at mar-a-lago, lobbing conspiracy theories and attacks on opponents. what did you see in that briefing room yesterday, john? yeah, yeah, i was in the room when the president addressed the press there, the briefing, something he wanted to do, didn't defer to any of his officials. he himself wanted the spotlight, wanted the microphone, wanted the cameras. white house officials told me, yes, this is yet another moment here. first of all, where fact checking is really important. and good job by peter, our colleague peter alexander. good work there by the washington post. it is worth reiterating this is again a first policies. the diversity initiatives were put in place by president obama. trump, while he was president, left them there and then it was his own faa when he was in charge that promoted programs about hiring those with disabilities to join that agency, and that yesterday he, of course, tried to blame them in a wedge issue, speaking, you know, in moments after a crisis, our nation reeling from it,

choosing once again division also lying about his record very reminiscent, i will say, of during the presidential campaign when he gained much traction from then vice president harris and the idea of transgender surgery provided for inmates in prisons. well, we fact checked it at the time and found that that program also existed under the trump administration. he, of course, when he in his bureau of prisons promoted it, he, of course, did not change it while he was in office. but bigger picture, willie, it's another moment where this president took a time of national tragedy and tried to use it to score political points and attack his foes. we've seen it a few times this month, the wildfires in southern california. he blamed that on democratic politicians before he was sworn in the terror attack in new orleans on new year's day. he blamed that on the border when it turned out, of course, that it was a u.s. citizen in texas who carried out the attacks. his instinct is never to bring people together. but even in some stunning fashion, try to

blame others and point fingers when, of course, as president, the ultimate responsibility should be lying with him, and you can almost see him anticipating blame of his administration in some way and projecting that onto everyone else. he also blamed former transportation secretary pete buttigieg for various issues within the faa. buttigieg responded on social media, writing, quote, despicable as families grieve, trump should be leading, not lying. we put safety first, drove down close calls, grew air traffic control and had zero commercial airline crash fatalities out of millions of flights on our watch, president trump now oversees the military and the faa. one of his first acts was to fire and suspend some of the key personnel who helped to keep our skies safe. time for the president to show actual leadership and explain what he will do to prevent this from happening again. that's former transportation secretary pete buttigieg. katty kay, watching the president yesterday in that briefing room where jonathan saw up close, reminded of people who said, you know what, he won a

second term. now he's a two term president. he did it. maybe he'll settle in and be the president. a lot of people hoped he could be and put behind him the grievances and personal attacks and all of the things that he used to get back to the white house on the campaign trail. but in this first week, clearly no evidence that that's going to happen. >> or even that this would be the kind of calmer, more grown up version of the first administration that with susie wiles there had been some speculation that, yes, they would move fast. the policies might not be policies that many democrats would agree with, but things would be efficient and work effectively. i think what we've seen in the last 48 hours is that that is not necessarily the case. we saw the all of the funding drawn back for domestic grants in the country that had to be overturned very quickly. then we saw the crash and the response to the crash. but it looks like donald trump is feeling extremely powerful and realizing that even if he says something or goes too far, then he's not going to get much pushback, right? i mean, yes,

pete buttigieg came out with a tweet saying that this was despicable, but you have not had a complete outcry uniform from members of the democratic party responding to what president trump did, effectively blaming black brown people, women, people with disabilities for that air crash. i mean, let's be honest, you know, that's what diversity is. and that is what the president said, that black, brown people, women and people with disabilities caused this crash. i mean, where is the outcry from a coordinated outcry from democrats? now they've been tied up. they've been tied up in the hearings on the capitol hill. it's just this this sense that donald trump wants to have a fight. the fact that he signed a memorandum even after that press conference doesn't suggest at all that he thinks he went too far in that press conference. quite the contrary. he wants to push it even further. and he thinks that there will be even if nothing happens that's positive. there will be very little pushback from a congress that seems to be either cowed on the democratic side or compliant on the republican side.

>> yeah, not much criticism yesterday from republicans. there were a group of democrats held a press conference led by minority leader chuck schumer, who very specifically and clearly criticized the president for using this moment to sow division again. we'll have much more on the plane crash, with the focus on the investigation and the victims coming up shortly. also, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin will join us with a look at her interview with a former federal prosecutor who worked on some of the january 6th capitol riot cases. plus, president trump's pick for fbi director kash patel appears to distance himself from the president's sweeping pardons of those rioters during his senate confirmation hearing. morning joe is coming right back. >> gunning for the. >> man who. >> stole your water. >> and. >> you. >> fight till he is gone. >> but they. catch you. >> at the border and. mourners are all singing as they drag you

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you can add a robinhood ira with a 3% contribution boost. (nasa pilot vo) roger that. (vo) robinhood gold gives you an instant 3% match on your annual ira contributions. ♪ >> where do people find the. strength to speak truth to right now? you've got an administration. you've got a president ready, willing and able to take legal action against people doing their jobs. >> i think. in 2025. >> politically engaged. >> people can. >> find the. >> strength to make their voices heard and try to help create a. >> climate of opinion. >> that enables these institutions, these people who run these institutions, to do the. >> right thing. >> well, jon meacham, you have

certainly my light tonight. >> i have always rejected any violence against law enforcement. and i have, including in that group is specifically addressed any violence against law enforcement on january 6th. and i do not agree with the commutation of any sentence of any individual who committed violence against law enforcement. >> i've been thinking these capitol police officers, and i told them, i thought i actually thought that the pardons. >> of. >> people who did harm. >> to police officers sucked. >> and i. >> told them. >> that at every one. >> of these. >> security entrances, when. >> i come in and i stand by it, and. >> i respectfully disagree with the president. >> or whoever. >> likely gave him advice, because. >> the. president has. >> to rely on best advice for some of these executive orders. >> but i. >> make no apology for. >> saying that. >> the men. >> and women on. >> capitol hill that got us safely to this building are heroes. >> the people. >> who harmed them. >> are thugs. >> that's republican senator thom tillis of north carolina.

and before that, kash patel. president trump's pick to be director of the fbi, distancing themselves very clearly from trump's pardons of the violent january 6th rioters, especially those who attacked police officers. that was during patel's confirmation hearing yesterday. patel was not the only nominee grilled by senators over their past comments. tulsi gabbard, trump's choice for director of national intelligence, also appeared before a senate committee yesterday in an equally contentious hearing. nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles has more. >> do you think. >> that. >> a pair of president trump's top national security nominees, facing high stakes confirmation hearings? >> there will be no politicization at the fbi? >> former federal prosecutor kash patel, nominated for fbi director. the staunch trump supporter pressed by democrats about his independence. >> would you be willing to resign. >> the post. >> of fbi director if pressed and given no choice but to obey the order or resign? >> senator, i will always obey the law. >> and president trump's pardons

of violent offenders from january 6th. >> i do not agree with the commutation of any sentence of any individual who committed violence against law enforcement. >> patel, strongly defended by republicans. >> the reason you're. >> here is because most of the public, almost every republican. >> believes that. >> the fbi. >> has been. >> used continuously. >> in a political. >> fashion, lying. >> to get donald trump. >> across the capitol, former democratic congresswoman and combat veteran tulsi gabbard, nominated for director of national intelligence. >> what truly unsettles my political opponents is i refuse to be their puppet. >> gabbard, pushing back on claims she parroted kremlin talking points. >> i want to make. certain that in no way does russia get. >> a pass. >> in either your mind or your heart. >> i'm offended by the question because my sole focus, commitment and responsibility is about our own nation.

>> and pressed over her previous call for a pardon for edward snowden, who fled the u.s. after releasing a trove of government secrets. >> is edward snowden a traitor to the united states of america? >> i understand how critical. our national security. >> apparently you don't. >> nbc's ryan nobles reporting from capitol hill. let's bring in nbc news senior executive editor for national security, david rohde. he was in the room yesterday for kash patel's confirmation hearing. david. good morning. what were your impressions as you sat and listened? kash patel doing what nominees do from time to time, which is say the right things over the course of those hours to get themselves confirmed, but also often in stark contrast with everything they've said for years before that hearing. >> yeah. and thank you for pointing that out. that clip of him saying he disagreed with the commutations regarding january 6th was the one moment where he did shift from his past statements. in this memoir. he wrote he i'm not sure the exact

wording at this point, but he he called january 6th and the charges that were brought a made up insurrection. when he was asked under oath yesterday why he went on podcasts with hosts that have expressed anti-semitic and conspiracist views, he said i went on there to tell them to make them, you know, confront them with the truth. that's why i went on there. and he didn't actually, you know, do that as far as i know, when he appeared on those broadcasts. so he was very evasive. he wouldn't say that joe biden won the 2020 election. and then separately, there was news that was reported by my colleagues, ken dilanian and ryan riley, that already dismissals of senior officials in the fbi have begun. yesterday, several of them were told to leave. so it was a very confusing message yesterday. so, david. >> you know. >> part of. >> why patel has drawn such scrutiny is there's first this belief that he will do whatever donald trump has asked, will ask him to do. he has said that in the past. and also, of course, he has an enemies list printed for all to see in the back of

his book. and we certainly believe, you know, people he would potentially go after is more expansive than those just written down there. did that come up yesterday? what did he say about this idea of using the department of justice to carry out retribution? >> he vowed he wouldn't do it. as you saw senator graham say, he said that, you know, the democrats have used it for weaponization. i'm not going to do that. and he insists, he says in the book, over and over, there are criminal members of the deep state. and it's a list of people that he says are members of the deep state. and he just denies that. he sort of, you know, distorted his own past. i felt and i think that it's very concerning. one of the things we've also learned is that there's a half dozen advisers who've arrived at the justice department, sorry, at the fbi, and are working on the director's floor of the seventh floor. two of them are have are affiliated in some way with spacex. one of them is a former aide of representative jim jordan, a real, you know, a republican who's been incredibly negative and, you know, criticizing the current fbi. and this is all unprecedented after

j. edgar hoover's decades of abuse, there was massive reforms in the 1970s. there's only been one political appointee in the entire fbi for 50 years. that's the director. you now have a half dozen people coming in to work for. workforce doesn't know who they are, and current fbi officials are very worried about what's happening. >> coming up, congressman jim himes, the top democrat on the house intelligence committee, is standing by. he'll weigh in on yesterday's confirmation hearings for two of president trump's top picks for national trump's top picks for national security. morning joe comes business. it's not a nine-to-five proposition. it's all day and into the night. it's all the things that keep this world turning. it's the go-tos that keep us going. the places we cheer. trust. hang out. and check in. they all choose the advanced network solutions and round the clock partnership from comcast business. powering more businesses than anyone. powering possibilities.

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correspondent lisa rubin, who sat down for an interview with a former prosecutor of some of the violent january 6th rioters pardoned by president trump. lisa. good morning. so what did you hear? this has to be incredibly frustrating. probably isn't even the word for someone who put together a case. built all these cases, won

convictions just to see the jails opened up so people could walk out. >> well, that's absolutely right. yesterday i interviewed alexis loeb, who worked in the justice department for over a decade, most recently on the department's sprawling effort to prosecute cases related to the january 6th insurrection. and we spoke about her reaction to president trump's pardons of the capitol rioters. who have concerns about your safety in the wake of these pardons. >> whenever prosecutors. >> bring cases, particularly cases involving. >> violence. >> that is a. risk that that you take on as a prosecutor. but apart from my role as a prosecutor. >> i have. >> concerns as. >> as an american about what. >> happens now. >> that all. >> of these defendants have. been given a pass of some. >> quite serious crimes. >> and what kind of message that. >> sends to them or others who may be. considering committing. >> acts of. >> political violence. >> in the future?

>> willie. >> alexis and i also spoke about fbi director nominee kash patel, who, despite his comments at yesterday's hearing, has set off alarm bells in the department of justice about his potential lack of independence from president trump. mr. patel today was told by a senator of president trump's own party that he believed that the pardons and you'll excuse my language sucked. is there anything that you want to say to kash patel on the eve of his presumably becoming director of the fbi? >> the pardons. >> can't be. >> undone at this point. >> but what mr. patel. >> can do is that going forward, as the head of the fbi. >> he has the power to. >> remain vigilant. >> and to. >> stop further acts. >> of political. >> violence and to respond. >> when those happen. >> and take. >> them seriously. and make sure that future acts of political. >> violence are. >> not treated with. impunity and are investigated as. they should be. >> so additionally, president trump's interim. >> u.s. attorney. >> for washington, d.c, ed

martin, has set a deadline of today for members of his office to issue a preliminary report on the department's prosecutions of those capitol riot rioters before he joined the trump administration. martin, of course, was a stop the steal advocate who spoke at the capitol on january 5th and was on the capitol grounds during the riot the next day as the mob breached the building. mark martin tweeted in part, like mardi gras in dc today, love, faith and joy. the internal review, which has been dubbed project 1512 because of the federal statute it deals with, deals specifically with the doj's charging of an obstruction of justice charge that the supreme court ruled was applied too broadly to some of these january 6th cases. and, lisa, i mean, thi is someone who i mean, we can't say it more plainly than that. he was a stop the steal advocate. he was there pushing the lie that donald trump won that election. and here he is looking at the

investigations. >> he is not only looking at the investigations, but he's basically doing a sweeping internal review of those prosecutions, trying to investigate the investigators, which is something pam bondi, who is now the nominee for attorney general, very famously said on television before her nomination hearings. now, i recently obtained an internal email from ed martin to his colleagues that has previously been reported on by other outlets, but never before in its entirety. in the email, martin goes out of his way to single out former federal prosecutor ashley akers, who joins you on morning joe earlier this week. akers resigned from the department late last week and has since publicly called martin's review a wild goose chase. martin wrote in part, quote, someone named ashley akers has been going on television badmouthing our work and me. i have never met her, so i find her comments disconnected from reality. i will be reaching out to her. maybe she had issues with her supervisors or my predecessor. we will see if we can help her. alexis loeb, the federal prosecutor i spoke with

yesterday, personally knows miss akers, and we have her first reaction to that email, saying she was unnerved by martin calling out by name. take a look. what did you think when you heard about mr. martin's comments about miss akers? >> i found it chilling to. >> name her specifically. for making comments that don't seem disconnected. >> from reality at all. miss akers comments reflected the facts that the department proved at trial after trial after trial of these defendants. >> you mentioned that you found mr. martin's email chilling, and yet you're sitting here with me in a conference room doing an interview. why? >> it's important for. >> people to understand. >> the facts about the cases, the. >> facts of what. happened at the capitol on january 6th. and it's also important for them to rstand that these were not political prosecutions. they were staffed. by career. employees of the department of justice. they were conducted in partnership with fbi agents from

around the country. people of all political persuasions came to work together on these cases. because they understood. >> that it was. >> wrong to assault officers, and it was wrong. to attack the. capitol and the peaceful transfer of power on that day. >> lisa, a terrific and important interview. david, let's get you to weigh react to it, to weigh in on this idea of chilling, because it's not just looking backwards and investigating the investigators, but also sending a message about any possible investigations into the trump administration going forward. >> yeah, i mean, we talked about it, but along with many pardons was the pardon of the proud boys, the group that donald trump said during a presidential debate. stand back and stand by. so that's the message to the perpetrators of this. and we've seen this across the justice department and the fbi, people involved in any kind of investigation of donald trump are being reassigned. some of them are being reassigned to a new task force to prosecute

officials in sanctuary cities who are seen as not enforcing federal immigration law. so this is payback. it's very clear to people. people are very unnerved in the justice department and the fbi. and it's, as far as i know, unprecedented. and it is a chilling message. >> lisa, final word to you. >> i think it's important that people like alexis loeb have spoken out the bravery that she and folks like ashley akers and jason manning, who spoke with nbc news last week with brian riley, have shown is remarkable. and yet the incentives for people like them to talk to folks like us. there is no incentive for them, because we can see that what ed martin is doing in collecting up all these documents as part of his preliminary review, that looks to me like the precursor to something more than an investigation that starts to look like i know exactly who to blame and where to lay that blame. and to the extent that that materializes into not just firings but prosecutions, there are reasons for folks to be scared. so i appreciate very much that alexis decided to speak with us, john. >> you might even say they're weaponizing the justice

department. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin and nbc news senior executive editor for national security david rohde. thank you both. coming up, senator tim kaine of virginia is our guest. we'll talk to him about the investigation into the mid-air crash near washington and president trump's reaction to it. that's straight ahead on to it. that's straight ahead on morning joe. psoriatic arthritis symptoms can be unpredictable. one day, your joints hurt. next, it's on your skin. i got cosentyx. feels good to move. feel less joint pain, swelling and tenderness, back pain, and clearer skin, and help stop further joint damage with cosentyx. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections, and lowered ability to fight them may occur, like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal, or viral infections. some were fatal. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough, had a vaccine or plan to, or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions

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pack today. just call 88844. stay dry. >> rainy morning here in midtown manhattan. raindrops on the lens. there. our camera atop this building here at 30 rockefeller plaza. but it is, thankfully, friday. and welcome to the fourth hour of morning joe. it is now 6 a.m. out on the west coast, 9 a.m. here on the east coast. i'm jonathan lemire. we have a. >> very, very. >> full hour for you. so let's dive right in. beginning with the investigation remains underway this morning into what caused the deadly collision between a passenger jet and an army helicopter over the potomac river just outside washington, d.c. nbc news senior national correspondent tom llamas has more. >> this morning, ntsb. >> investigators getting their first look at a critical clue the. cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder recovered

from the american airlines passenger jet involved in that horrific mid-air collision near dc's reagan national airport. these images, showing the devices being cleaned and evaluated at the ntsb labs as new video aired by cnn, shows the horrifying moments the two crashed and plunged into the icy potomac. i mean, how tough was it out there? there's wreckage that. >> can puncture your suit. there's jet fuel in the water that's contaminating your gear. so we're having to work with all of. >> that to. >> keep our divers safe while we're looking. >> for people. audio seems to show the helicopter pilot responding to controllers, though it's hard to hear. >> this club has. >> an aircraft inside separation. >> as authorities try to piece together what happened, sources tell nbc news, investigators are looking at whether the helicopter was flying above its designated altitude, while a preliminary faa report on the

crash found staffing at the air traffic control tower was not normal, according to a source with knowledge of the situation. the tower typically has one controller focusing on planes and a second on helicopters. but wednesday night, only one person was overseen both at the time of the collision, although that is allowed by faa safety guidelines. and this morning, we're learning of another close encounter near the airport just a day earlier. audio showing a plane had to change course due to a helicopter in its path. >> breaking a 4514. what was the reason for the go around? we had an ra with the helicopter traffic below us for 4514. >> officials say the helicopter involved in wednesday night's crash was on a routine training flight with three experienced crew members, including crew chief ryan o'hara, a young father also on board and instructor pilot. with about 1000 flight hours among those killed on the american flight.

multiple children, their parents and coaches returning from a figure skating camp in kansas. >> there's just no words. >> to describe how. >> how awful. >> it is. >> the plane's captain, identified as 34 year old jonathan campos, his copilot. sam lilly, 28 years old and engaged to be married. >> he was. >> very just a. >> very kind soul. >> also on the flight, young mother wendy jo schaefer and civil rights attorney and former miss kansas contestant kay duggins hammad raza was at the airport to pick up his wife, asra, who was returning from a business trip. >> i always pick. >> her up. >> from departures. >> i had dinner. >> waiting at home. >> so many families grieving. while the investigation continues. >> truly, truly heartbreaking stories there. joining us now live from reagan national airport. nbc news correspondent aaron gilchrist, who has done so much work for us these last couple of days. aaron, we've just received word that a 41st body has been recovered there from the crash site in the

potomac river. give us the latest you've heard there at the scene. >> yeah. jonathan, i just got that detail from d.c. fire and ems that they have recovered 41 of the 67 bodies believed to be in the water. at this point, the search and recovery operation was suspended last night as night fell. and our understanding is that the operation was to resume this morning with the rising of the sun. i can tell you as we look out the window here, we have seen a few more boats on the water. the first responder boats on the water just in the last few minutes here. so it seems as though that recovery operation has resumed. we also understand that the national transportation safety board intended to be out on the water with those divers today. and so what you have today is really a two fold operation, one where you have first responders, divers in the water, still looking to recover the remaining victims of this collision. and then you have the investigators from the national

transportation safety board who are looking to find some answers as to what caused this crash between that jetliner and the helicopter two nights ago. part of their investigation obviously includes getting those data recorders from these two aircraft. we know that they've already retrieved the flight data recorders from the airplane. they have yet to retrieve the data recorder from the helicopter. we know that those two things are going to be really integral in figuring out what was being said among the crews on these aircraft, as those planes, as the plane and the helicopter were nearing reagan national airport. what information is being recorded from the machinery on those aircraft as well? those are going to be really important for air traffic for ntsb investigators at the same time. our tom costello has been able to confirm from a source that the air traffic control tower was not staffed as it normally would be in in the time frame

that this all happened. a supervisor in the tower allowed one of the air traffic controllers to leave early, and that left one person to operate the tower from an air traffic control perspective. that person talking to both helicopters and airplanes, which is not typically how the operation would be in that space, although it is allowed. and that's something too, that the national transportation safety board is going to be looking at. it's going to be months, john, before we get real answers about how exactly this happened. the ntsb says they want to gather every fact that is available, and then they will start to try to try to offer us some answers about what exactly happened here. jonathan. >> nbc's aaron gilchrist live for us from dca. aaron, thank you again. joining us now, democratic senator tim kaine of virginia. the collision, of course, happened over the potomac river, which forms part of the border between his state and the nation's capital. senator, good to see you this morning. let's just start here. in terms of the latest that

you've been briefed on, in terms of the cause of this terrible tragedy. two nights ago. >> well, jonathan, we don't really know the cause, but we. >> have a lot of. >> questions that. we're answering. we. >> know that the. >> air traffic control tower at reagan national, which was supposed. >> to. >> have about 30 air traffic controllers, only has. >> about 19. >> because of. severe air traffic controller shortages. >> in washington and nationally. >> we know that normally. >> there would be somebody in the. >> tower handling. >> helicopter traffic and someone else handling plane. >> traffic. because those pilots. >> speak on different frequencies. >> and so. >> you need to have that. >> with one person handling both, having to toggle back and forth between different frequencies. the question would be, were all. the pilots able to hear. one another? >> and then we. know this. >> this airport is over congested. i begged my colleagues last year when we were debating a bill in congress

not to keep forcing more flights into reagan national. it was built. >> to accommodate. >> 15 million passengers in and out. you guys know this airport. >> well. >> it's now at 25. >> million. >> passengers a year in and. >> out. >> together with military flights and other really. complex security restrictions. in the national capital region. i believe just the congestion of the airspace and the. >> airport itself. >> is a is. >> something that the. >> ntsb is going to be looking at very carefully. >> well, senator, let's do a little more on just that. i know you, as you said, you had you and some of your colleagues had raised those concerns years ago. and we, as you say, there's not only has dca expanded its output, but there's just so much aircraft, military aircraft in particular. there's all these bases surrounding the nation's capital that are constantly in the air. >> in such. >> choreography by these air traffic controllers to get everything up and down safely. we know there have been a number of near misses even before yesterday's crash. so is there something more you can do now? is there is there legislation or

a call for review that you and your colleagues may put forward in the wake of this tragedy? >> well. >> we need. >> to. >> act quickly, but. not precipitously. >> although the ntsb. >> investigations can take a while, they often will issue or issue. >> some preliminary. >> recommendations, and we can act on those. >> i'll give. >> you an example. coincidentally, we had the hearing yesterday for president trump's. >> nominee to. >> be. secretary of. the army. >> the hilo that went down with these three soldiers came out of fort belvoir, an army base about 20 miles south. we asked. >> dan driscoll, the nominee. >> should you be confirmed, can we work with you to. >> analyze training. >> flights, their frequency, their location, their time of day? and he pledged that he would work with us on that. >> so that needn't wait. >> for the ultimate investigation. there are things like that that i think we can. >> tackle as we're. >> working on the defense bill. >> right now. >> but but we need to. >> let the. >> ntsb get the. >> work done, and we. >> need to press. >> forward on. >> air traffic control hiring. you know, president trump doing a hiring freeze and putting

somebody in as the as the chief guy in the office of management and budget who says he wants to traumatize federal employees. we don't. >> need to. >> traumatize air traffic controllers. we need to hire more, train more, have, you know, continue to. have standards of excellence, because when you're short staffed and air traffic controllers, it leads to delay, and that leads to dangerous situations and sometimes. >> tragically, accidents. >> senator. >> stay with us. we want to get your thoughts on more of what president trump had to say. he blamed democrats and diversity programs yesterday in the biden administration for the deadly collision. nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander brings us. >> more. with the remains of victims. still being recovered from the frigid potomac river. president trump blamed his two. democratic predecessors. >> i put safety first. obama, biden and the democrats put policy first. >> and diversity requirements in the military and faa that he just ended with executive orders. >> they actually came out with a directive to white. and we want

the people that are competent. >> still. >> the president. offered no evidence that diversity programs. >> had anything to do. >> with the deadly collision. >> his remarks. began with a moment of silence and condolences. >> we grieve for every precious soul that has been taken from us so suddenly. >> but quickly took a sharp turn. the commander in chief, criticizing the army helicopters crew. >> you had a pilot problem from the standpoint of the helicopter. >> pressed how he could conclude diversity hirings contributed to the crash. before all the facts were known. >> i have common sense. okay. for some jobs, they have to be at the highest level of genius. >> among his targets. >> former transportation secretary. pete buttigieg. >> he's just got a good line of. he's run it right into the ground with his diversity. >> buttigieg calling the president's comments despicable, writing, as families grieve, trump. >> should be.

>> leading. >> not lying, adding, we. >> put safety first. the president. >> also cited language on the faa's website about recruiting those with disabilities. >> it's on the website. >> the faa's website. >> it was there in 2013. >> it was. >> there for. >> the entirety. >> what i read. >> it was. >> there. >> for. >> the entirety of. >> your administration to. so my question. >> is. >> why. >> didn't you change the policy. >> during your first administration? >> i did change it. i changed the obama policy, and we had a very good policy. and then biden came in and he changed it. and then when i came in two days, three days ago, i signed a new order, bringing it to the highest level of intelligence. okay. >> later, the president dismissed a question whether he would visit the crash site. >> what's the site? >> the water. >> or to meet with. >> the first. >> responders down there? >> i don't. >> have a plan to do that. >> do you. >> want me. >> to go swimming? >> president trump said there if you couldn't hear it. and to senator kaine's point of a moment ago about waiting for the ntsb to come to conclusions about what happened. well, president trump is not doing that. just a few moments ago on truth social, he wrote this. the

blackhawk helicopter was flying too high by a lot. it was far above the 200 foot limit. that's not really too complicated to understand, is it? no sensitivity there from the president. nor is he waiting for an investigation to conclude. let's now bring in president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation, the reverend al sharpton. rev, good to see you this morning. let's let's get your thoughts here. and then please take it to the senator about what we heard from president trump yesterday, blaming with no evidence whatsoever, acknowledging he had no evidence, blaming hiring practices centered around dei, centered around diversity for what happened the other night. >> well, clearly, the. >> president has a racial obsession, and he's. using whatever race baiting he can to get elected and maintain. >> but you would think when we're seeing 67. >> people that have been killed by an. accident and that their families. >> are.

>> dealing with. the shock of. >> that. >> that he. >> would try. >> and appeal for all of us. to one, mourn. >> the families and give the families. >> our grievances. >> condolences and prayers and bring us all together because. >> any of us. >> could have been on that flight. all of us fly back and forth to washington a lot. rather than do that, he does three minutes of let's pause in silence and then let's blame the blacks. let's blame the disabled. i mean, this kind. >> of venom. >> is beyond someone that i think is, is. >> capable of. >> of having some kind of human feeling. and senator kaine, as we look at the president race baiting and. and pouring these kind of assertions on the. disabled and others. the fact that. he never pete alexander. >> raised it never. >> changed the policy that president obama had started. >> he never changed. >> it in the four years he was in. so he's obviously trying to. >> just play to a. >> certain crowd. how do we.

>> deal with this misinformation in the middle of not lowering. >> our standards. >> to his, but also. >> separate the dei. >> issue, which is a real issue, something. >> of concern. >> from being gaslighted by. >> the bias of the president. >> well, reverend sharpton, thanks. >> for. >> you know. >> critiquing this. and pointing out how insensitive it was to the family members for the president to do that. >> but i. >> i wish i had been a reporter in that room. >> because i. >> think the president was race baiting to take attention away. from this. >> he let. >> elon musk force the resignation of the faa administrator at the beginning of the administration. he disbanded on day two of the administration, an aviation safety committee within dhs. and the reason for disbanding it is. we want to focus on national security. what air safety isn't national security. he has got an omb director who was pushing a hiring freeze and federal

funding pauses, saying, i want to traumatize the federal workforce when we already have too few air traffic controllers. this president is starting off just within a week and a half. an anti safety agenda that is going to hurt our air safety. and he desperately did not. >> want to. >> be asked about that. i think that's why he went the race baiting route because he realized wow, we just sacked the faa administrator. >> we just. >> sacked the aviation safety board. man. they're going to come after us. we better blame somebody else. >> yeah, it's certainly a familiar page in trump's playbook to shift blame in a moment like this. senator, lastly, before you go, it's such a busy time in washington right now, including confirmation hearings for a number of the president's cabinet selections. you were in yesterday with robert f kennedy jr. the health committee grilled him on a number of issues. talk to us about how how that went. do you think, after listening to him the last couple of days, that he is fit to serve? >> no. >> he is not fit.

>> to serve. >> he is such a brain addled conspiracy. >> theorist. >> and i used. my moment. to challenge him. on a particular conspiracy. for some reason, in july of 2024, 21 years after nine over 11, he tweeted on his own. >> account. >> you know my take on nine over 11? it's hard to tell what is a conspiracy theory and what isn't. >> i won't. >> take sides on nine over 11. now, why would somebody say something like that at 23 years after nine over 11, i won't take sides on nine over 11. i could. >> tell as. >> i was looking at my republican colleagues across the aisle, that they were having some significant concerns. >> about a guy. >> who won't. even take sides on 9/11. i don't even know what that means. is he is he think it was space lasers? does he think it was, you know, undocumented? i mean, i don't know what the heck that means, but we don't need somebody who can't tell the

difference between a conspiracy theory and reality running the most important public health department, health department in the united states. >> democratic senator tim kaine of virginia. senator, thank you as always. >> absolutely. >> so two of president trump's other nominees also faced contentious confirmation hearings on capitol hill yesterday. kash patel and tulsi gabbard. joining us now, democratic congressman jim himes of connecticut. he's the ranking member of on the house intelligence committee, which, of course, works closely with the director of national intelligence. congressman, good to see you this morning. so what's your take on tulsi gabbard's confirmation hearing? were any of your concerns alleviated? >> well, you know, different context, right? with the crash of this airliner. america is being reminded that the leadership. >> of. >> federal agencies really matters. >> you know. >> we had an election where i can't tell. >> you the. >> number of maga voters who

said. >> well. >> i just want to upset. >> the apple cart. >> we want. >> to start from scratch. and, you know, last week. americans got a real demonstration of how life saving things like the faa and, by the way, the budget disaster, you know, the failure to disperse federal funds, which is hurting homeless organizations, etc. my point is that americans have. gotten a real reminder that leadership at these agencies really, really matters. and neither kash patel nor tulsi gabbard were ever remotely qualified to occupy the very sensitive roles that they're being asked to occupy. but, you know, tulsi. stumbled through her hearing yesterday, having changed her position on fisa, having sort of changed her position on snowden. and, you know, as somebody who spends a lot. >> of time around the. >> intelligence committee, if you're willing to change everything. you believe in to. get that job, are you going. >> to be willing. >> to tell the president the truth, if that may. >> cost you. >> your job? and, of course, as you know, that's at the core of what an intelligent leader,

intelligence leader must be willing to do to speak truth to power. and i don't see anything about tulsi gabbard that suggests that she's got the, you know, the center of gravity to do so. >> we reported several. >> hours ago. >> that a number of republican senators after the hearing said actually they had more concerns, strongly hinting they had more concerns about gabbard's ability to do the job. and those in the trump white house have said concerned about her ability to be confirmed. meanwhile, several top officials at the fbi were told to retire or resign yesterday or risk being demoted and reassigned. they don't leave. one current and three former fbi officials tell nbc news that about a half dozen top managers at the bureau were warned yesterday. some of those managers oversee criminal, national security and cyber investigations. the senior officials are career civil servants, meaning that they cannot be fired without cause. in response, an fbi official tells nbc news that the move

would be hugely disruptive. and congressman. let's get you to weigh in on that. this comes at the same time that kash patel had his hearing to be fbi director. fewer fireworks in that hearing, perhaps, than the other two, but still serious concerns raised. what is your reaction to this news? that several officials could be shown the door and patel's potential future at the bureau? >> yeah. well, again, let's let's start with the importance of the fbi. right. the fbi, despite what you hear from maga and republicans and yes, i understand that they mishandled the carter page affidavit in a fisa application. okay, that was really bad. but out of that fairly technical thing comes this religious belief that the fbi is a dramatically corrupt organization that needs to be shaken up from top to bottom. you know, despite the fact that, in fact, what the fbi does every

single day is to interdict the flow of fentanyl into this country, to stop terrorist attacks, to stop gang violence. this is what the fbi does. and kash patel, you know, he. has shown us who he is. he's a conspiracy theorist with no real experience in law enforcement who has promised, except for yesterday, by the way, except for in his confirmation hearing, has. promised to use the fbi to. >> go after the. >> president's political opponents. now, if you think that that's probably exaggeration, look at what happened last week with funding, right? all of the things that donald trump doesn't like, whether it's dei or climate change efforts, all of those fundings were all of those funding sources were stopped, at least for a couple of days or so. and what makes this so important, apart from the fact that the fbi stops terrorists, stops fentanyl, stops gang violence, the fbi has guns. they can show up at your door and demand to go inside your house. they can arrest you. they can investigate you. that is very serious business. and there is nothing about kash patel that that that warrants the

confidence that the fbi director should have it from the american people. >> congressman himes. >> on what you just said. >> how can the members of congress and the senate, for that matter. >> that opposes. the fbi? >> the fbi. are. the i. >> think we i think we just lost the congressman's shot. we appreciate him joining us. he was, of course, jim himes house intelligence on the house intelligence committee and democratic congressman of connecticut. so, rev. so, yeah, let's i mean, this is there are a lot of reasons to be worried about the fbi director. democrats say. i mean, i'll put it to you, answer your own question. >> yeah. >> i mean, i. think that the challenge must be the democrats who are picking a new dnc chair this weekend and certainly going to try for the midterm elections next year. >> they must. >> seek to try to block where they can. and overreach in terms of whether it's the fbi director, the justice

department, in punishing president trump's opponents. clearly it has. been announced. it is something that they've said out loud is their agenda. there must not be a let's wait and see when they do it. there must be some ways that they can fight. >> back and. >> expose this before people are victimized. >> yeah, a number of democrats and even former trump officials have privately told me that kash patel, the trump pick they're most concerned about, they could do his bidding. all right. coming up here, president trump also says he's going to go forward with his threats to impose tariffs on goods from canada and mexico tomorrow, but those potential tariffs may not include one key commodity. our friend cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us next to explain. plus, starbucks is making a major change to its menu, all in the hope of returning the company to its roots. we'll explain next on morning joe.

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>> love.com. >> welcome back. time now for a look at some. >> of the other. >> stories making headlines this morning. uganda has reported an outbreak of the ebola virus in its capital city, recording the first fatality since the country's last outbreak two years ago. the 32 year old male nurse died on wednesday. post mortem tests confirmed he was infected with the deadly virus. at least 44 contacts of the victim have been identified, including 30 health workers at a local hospital. uganda's last ebola outbreak killed at least 55 people. back here at home, the fda has approved a new type of pain pill designed to eliminate the risks of addiction and overdose that are associated with opioid medications. the drug, manufactured by vertex pharmaceuticals, is for short

term pain that often follows surgery or injuries. it's the first drug maker in decades to gain u.s. approval for a new type of pain medicine, offering an alternative to opioids. and the coffee giant starbucks will cut about 30% of its menu items in an effort to simplify its offerings and improve the overall customer experience. the starbucks ceo said on an earnings call that the chain's menu had become, quote, overly complex, resulting in long lines. he labeled the move as an effort by the company to return to its roots. sales. the coffee giant. fell 4% in the first quarter. meanwhile, president donald trump is threatening to follow through on his campaign promise to impose 25% tariffs on the country's two largest trade partners, our neighbors canada and mexico. in remarks yesterday, trump said he will be putting the tariffs in place

tomorrow, citing illegal illegal immigration, drugs and trade deficits as the reasons for them. the president, however, did not say whether the tariffs would apply to american imports of canadian oil. to talk about this, let's now bring in co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box and a new york times columnist, andrew ross sorkin. andrew, thank you so much for joining us this morning. let's talk tariffs. first of all, remind viewers who's going to pay the price for these tariffs and then talk to us. bigger implications if indeed they go into effect tomorrow. >> look we're 24 hours out from what could be frankly an explosive. >> economic moment. >> in our history. we'll see whether we get there. and we can get into the details of that in just a, in just a moment, as you, i think, were trying to allude to there. mr. lemire, you know, tariffs, as we've discussed repeatedly typically ultimately get. borne by american taxpayers the cost of

goods for americans, at least in the short term, go up. and so the question is, you know, whether he's. actually going. >> to go through. >> with. >> this. >> and if this is some kind of larger negotiation. >> at. >> this point, we only have 24 hours, though. and so what kind of give can he get either out of canada or out of. mexico on immigration or any of these other issues, which could at least push out this, this deadline? and if he doesn't implement these things, is there a bluff being called in all of this? i think everybody is sort of watching and waiting, many in some form of terror, actually, about what all of this means. fascinating op ed, by the way, that larry summers put out in the wall street journal today just about the actual demonstrable cost. and so many economists, you know, putting up the red flag, saying if. this goes into effect, it is going to create demonstrable economic damage to the united states. >> andrew, you raised so many

good points there. it's certainly if past is prolog, trump might even look for a small concession. he can spin it as a win, maybe backing off. by the way, that's very possible. >> yeah. >> it's very possible. >> we're talking about this on monday and there is no tariff because he's able to say, i got them to do this, this and this. and the question is, is this this and this an. economic thing? is it about immigration? is it about so many other aspects? and that's, you know, we'll have to see what happens. >> yeah. we'll of course have complete coverage all weekend long on this. andrew, let's turn to another topic here. amazon, which had really curtailed its spending on twitter slash x after, you know, elon musk's purchase has now ramped it back up. >> you know we're seeing this as a trend. there's been a great benefit to elon musk since the election of donald trump. his connection and you know, just relationship. and now that he has an office in the white house, a whole number of companies are obviously doing a lot of things to placate the president. and there is an argument about whether this is an effort to placate elon musk

in his efforts. by the way, it's not just. >> amazon. >> apple coming back to the platform as well. the real question, and it's a longer term question, is, are they putting this money in as. a some kind of political placation, or do they believe that x is a marketplace that can actually help them sell, you know, more services for amazon or more phones for apple? historically, twitter or x was not considered as good a mousetrap for advertisers as what facebook and instagram and others were offering. and that's one of the reasons that x struggled or twitter struggled before elon musk got there. they have tried to improve a lot of the technology, and i think we will now either find out from just an efficacy perspective whether the bang for the buck is there. they argue it is. elon musk and linda yaccarino, by the way, who used to run advertising at nbc universal, now runs advertising for x and elon musk.

and she has been very vocal and outspoken about trying to bring those advertisers back. >> all right. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, i suspect you'll be working this weekend. andrew, thank you so much. still ahead here on morning joe will show you the star studded concert last night to raise money for victims of those sweeping southern california wildfires. morning joe is back in just a moment. >> hi. >> it's joined the medley, and i am finally at sunnyvale. >> i work out, i eat right, but there are just some areas i just need to have tweaked. >> that's why. >> this celebrity. >> housewife went. >> to. >> sono bello. >> one visit. >> permanent fat removal. >> i saw. >> results right away. >> i just feel so much more. >> confident in my body image. feels great. >> when it comes to. >> your. >> personal health and happiness. >> you deserve the absolute best. >> i fell back to old dorinda. >> i fell back to old dorinda. >> (man 1)e we're standing up for our right to be lazy. (woman 1) by sitting down. (man 2) and reclining back. (man 3) 'cause we work hard and want to relax harder. (man 4) we, the lazy, are taking back lazy...

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administration. you've got a president ready, willing and able to take legal action against people doing their jobs. >> i think in. >> 2025, politically engaged people. >> can find. >> the strength to make their voices heard and try to help create a climate of opinion that enables these institutions, these people who run these institutions, to do the right thing. >> well, jon meacham, you have certainly my life tonight. >> welcome back to morning joe, some of the biggest names in the music industry came together last night for a benefit concert to raise money for recovery efforts in southern california, which, of course, still reeling from this month's devastating wildfires. nbc news correspondent kaylee hartung brings us the details. >> just miles from the devastation of the l.a. fires. some of the biggest names in music packed two stadiums for not one, but two star studded concerts, raising millions for relief efforts. >> people have lost.

>> so much. this is a very small gesture on our part. >> the fire aid benefit brought. >> dozens of. >> artists across all genres and generations together, making beautiful music for a deeply personal cause. >> we're cycling through all the stages. >> of grief. >> and anger and disbelief and bouncing in a non-linear way all around them. >> comedian billy crystal among the stars sharing their own. >> stories of loss. >> like thousands of. >> you. >> our house now look. >> like this. >> i stepped. >> onto the grounds and i fell to my knees and i wailed. >> at the kia forum. green day. >> pink, stevie nicks. >> and the red hot chili peppers were among those who kicked things off. >> yes. to your kids. >> surprise performer doctor dre getting a huge reaction from the crowd. >> california. >> who's up? hey. >> while at the intuit dome, no doubt katy perry, billie eilish, lady gaga, sting and stevie wonder kept things rocking late

into the night. >> keep on flying. >> reunions. >> it's the one. >> you know. >> by unlikely collaborations. >> headed west. >> because he. >> felt that a change. >> would. >> do us good. >> and covers filled the air with sweet music. >> i'm feelin good was easy, lord, when he sang the blues. >> but while the performances in packed venues made for a lively atmosphere, the real reason for the night was ever present. >> there are moments that. >> get us through. >> moments like tonight. >> the show, featuring the stories of people whose lives and homes were destroyed. by the fires. >> and honoring. first responders. >> we finally. >> got a break. >> i immediately went to check on my house and it was gone. >> an emotional and empowering night. the music industry showing up to support their city and their community as they rise from the ashes together.

>> nbc's kaylee hartung with that report and so much heartbreak across the country this month. and americans usually turn to leaders for comfort, hope and answers on how to move forward as a nation during tragic events. oftentimes, leaders try not to use such moments to mix sympathy with politics. but yesterday, president donald trump took the opportunity to do just that. compare, though, to how another former republican president, ronald reagan, addressed the nation following the explosion of the space shuttle challenger back in 1986. >> nancy and i are pained to the core by the. tragedy of the shuttle challenger. we know we share this pain with all of the people of our country. >> on behalf of the first lady, myself and 340 million americans, our hearts are shattered alongside yours. and our prayers are with you now and in the days to come. >> perhaps we've forgotten. the courage it took for the crew of the shuttle. but they, the challenger seven, were aware of

the dangers. but overcame them and did their jobs brilliantly. >> we do not know what led to this crash, but we have some very strong opinions and ideas. >> i've always had great faith in and respect for our space program. and what happened today does nothing to diminish it. >> the faa says people with severe disabilities are the most underrepresented segment of the workforce, and they want them in and they want them. they can be air traffic controllers. i don't think so. they put a big push to put diversity into the faa's program. >> i wish i could talk to every man and woman who works for nasa, or who. >> worked on this. >> mission, and tell them your dedication and professionalism have moved and impressed us for decades, and we know of your anguish. we share it. >> the faa, which is overseen by secretary pete buttigieg, a real winner. that's the guy. >> who's a real winner.

>> do you. >> know. >> how badly. >> everything's run since he's run this department of transportation? he's a disaster. >> i want to. >> say something. >> to the schoolchildren of america, who were watching the live coverage of the shuttle's takeoff. i know it's hard to understand, but sometimes painful things like this happen. it's all part of the process of exploration and discovery. >> we must have only the highest standards for those who work in our aviation system. i changed the obama standards from very mediocre at best to extraordinary. there would be more shuttle. >> flights and more shuttle crews and yes, more volunteers, more civilians, more teachers in space. nothing ends here. our hopes and our journeys continue. >> i'm trying to. >> figure out how. >> you can come to the conclusion right. now that. >> diversity had. >> something to do with. >> this crash. >> because i have common sense. okay. and unfortunately, a lot of people don't. >> reverend sharpton, president ronald reagan in 1986, president donald trump yesterday. the

contrast couldn't be starker. >> you really and. i almost don't believe. >> i'm. >> saying this, but you really almost offend. >> ronald reagan to what he and trump in. >> one sentence. >> i definitely. was against reagan. reagan defeated. >> jimmy carter and brought in. >> a new. >> era of american conservatism. but reagan always was decent. i remember when jesse jackson, one of my mentors, went. >> and got. >> a navy pilot out of syria. reagan welcomed him to the white house. reverend jackson had been a big critic of his. reagan had him speak right there in the rose garden. that's how you become president. i don't understand what it's going to take for people to understand. i do not think donald trump has the capacity to grow into the job, because for you to open up by saying we don't know what happened, but. >> then in the next. >> sentence, say, but the disabled and diversity did it. then if you don't know what happened, how do you feel that you even have the right to bring that up while people are still

in the bottom of the potomac river? let's remember that when he was talking. people were still in the bottom of that river, not even identified to some of the families. >> he steps. >> over their bodies like they're props to take shots at his political opponents. >> whenever given a chance to unify. he always chooses divisiveness. excellent work by the morning joe team to put together that eye opening comparison. coming up next, we have new details about the ice raids that were expected to take place in colorado this week. we're going to be joined by colorado secretary of state jenna griswold on those new developments and much, much more. morning joe. we'll be right back. >> consumer cellular ranked number one in network. >> coverage and customer satisfaction. >> hi. my friend linda. >> has you guys and gets way. >> better coverage. >> than i do. >> sounds like. >> linda. >> has you.

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back. an immigration raid set. >> for aurora. >> colorado has been postponed indefinitely. the operation planned for the denver suburb was supposed to take place yesterday. however, two sources tell nbc news that it was called off due to media leaks and

safety concerns. joining us now, colorado secretary of state jenna griswold. she's also chair of the democratic association of secretaries of state. thank you. madam secretary, to be with us this morning. let's start with that news there about this raid in aurora. aurora, colorado, of course, attracted a lot of headlines this year. donald trump vilified the state, made a lot of false claims about this city, made a lot of false claims about it. this raid postponed. what do you know as to why, when it may be rescheduled? and just your thoughts about how it's become in the political spotlight? >> well. >> first off. >> good morning. thanks for. having me. >> and it's just one. more factor. >> of chaos. >> coming from trump and his administration. >> look, aurora. is a vibrant city. it's a. beautiful city. >> it's one of the. >> reasons that colorado is such a nice place to live. and i think it's important to underline that many immigrants who live in our communities have been there for decades.

>> they only. >> know. >> the united states. they remember their united states. the united states as their home. the idea that donald trump would round. >> up nonviolent. >> immigrants, go into schools, go. >> into. >> churches, is trying to put fear into our communities. so i'm glad to see this new, newest information. >> about these. >> potential raids. >> but at the end of. >> the day. >> it's all. >> part. >> of trump's. >> policy of trying to divide us, to. >> stoke fear and to. >> stoke chaos. >> secretary griswold, the concern of many when they say they would raid schools, they'd raid churches. i've been meeting with faith leaders in the new york area. bishop hyde of the episcopal church and others that are concerned about the morality of it. but the violation of church space of schools. is there some collective strategy, since you and other secretaries of state are meeting, that would

protect houses of worship for their ability to do what they're supposed to do, and that is serve people, no matter who they are? >> well. >> reverend, this is a great question from you and. good morning. look, i think the idea is to make people fear. going about their daily lives, fearing going grocery shopping. fearing going to their jobs, fearing going to pray in their places of worship. you know, i grew up with undocumented immigrants. i have friends, a friend whose mother was. deported when. >> she was a. >> little girl. and she was left. destitute with her family members. i just don't think that's the america that. >> we want. >> targeting nonviolent immigrants. >> but again, this is all about the chaos. we've seen two weeks of chaos. >> from the trump. >> administration, the executive. >> order on federal funding, sending. >> states reeling, him. trying to defy the constitution on birthright citizenship, the risks that we now have to our

communities, to women, to folks all across this nation. >> because donald. >> trump is focused on rolling back. >> our civil liberties. >> so this is just one item of many items that we have to. continue to engage in when it comes to. >> protecting civil. >> liberties, our fundamental freedoms, and. >> our democracy. >> in this country. >> and madam secretary, lastly, tell us a little more about what's going to come from these winter meetings here. what other issues and themes do you hope to tackle? >> well, i think there's a lot of concern. i have a lot of concern about trump's continued danger to american democracy. look, day one first official act, one of the first official acts. he decided to pardon the january 6th insurrectionists. these are people who stormed. >> the. >> capitol to try to steal the presidency from the american people. they threatened police officers. they threatened congresspeople. they threatened the foundation of our country. and instead. >> of focusing. >> on lowering the cost of groceries or the middle.

>> class, donald. >> trump decided his focus was. protecting insurrectionists. and another thing that i am very concerned about is his threat to withhold federal disaster relief. to folks in. california who have suffered from the devastating fires. >> imagine looking. >> someone in the eyes. >> whose house. >> has burned down, who has lost everything, and. >> saying that. >> they may not have. >> federal relief because the president doesn't. >> like their state. >> and doesn't like their. >> voting laws. it's egregious. so we need to continue to make sure that maga. >> republicans and the. >> president does not do not condition. federal relief on their. political agenda and do everything we can. >> to. >> protect american democracy. >> colorado secretary of state jenna griswold, thank you for joining us this morning. thank you. and, rev, what do you have coming up this weekend on politics nation? >> we're going to talk about clearly the continued attacks on dei, what it really means for all americans and for the corporate world. we're going to have guests all in on that, and

we're going to have members of the congress and senate dealing with these hearings and what has been questioned and answered that is not getting a lot of attention that affect a lot of people that are forgotten americans. >> that'll be coming up this weekend right here on msnbc. we will be watching. and that does it for us this morning. we'll see you again monday. have a good weekend, everybody. ana cabrera picks up our coverage after a short break. >> there were new. just a lack of ways. >> to. >> wrap our heads side. >> smart. >> consumer cellular. >> ranked number one in network coverage and customer satisfaction. hi. >> my friend linda. >> has you guys. >> and gets way. >> better coverage. >> than i do. >> sounds like linda has. >> you beat. >> only in coverage. >> and plans. >> start at $20. >> okay, price. >> to get your second month free when you switch to consumer cellular. >> you got this, buddy. >> you got it. >> during an asthma attack, every second feels like an eternity. >> primatene mist. >> works fast. it's clinically.

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