>> who was going to save america from the end of the world. the big lie is. >> that there was some concerted. >> planning. >> of the capitol. >> it just wasn't. >> stewart was becoming increasingly unstable. >> people are. >> gravitating to. >> him like. >> a son. i bet everything. >> on. >> him being locked away forever. >> msnbc premium gives you early access and ad free listening to rachel maddow chart topping series, msnbc original podcasts, exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> right now on. >> ana cabrera reports. >> the. search for answers. >> new clues about what. led to. the midair. collision over. washington as new questions. emerge about air traffic control in that doomed flight. plus, what we know about the victims on board, among them young stars. >> parents and. >> coaches from the figure.

>> skating world. >> also, from grief to grievance, president trump's baseless claims that dei policies contributed to the tragedy. the political blowback he's now facing. and later, senators weighing trump's. cabinet picks after bruising hearings. >> on the hill this morning, their. >> unclear paths. >> to confirmation. good morning. >> on this friday, it. >> is ten. >> eastern. >> 7 a.m. pacific. i'm ana cabrera. >> reporting from new york. >> and we begin with. >> the search. >> for answers. >> after that. >> deadly midair collision. >> over. >> washington, dc. the black. >> boxes from. >> the american. >> airlines flight. >> have been. >> recovered from the wreckage in the potomac river. >> both are. now at. ntsb labs. >> for evaluation and could. provide critical. >> clues into what happened. >> this. >> as new video released overnight. >> shows the. >> clearest image. >> yet. >> of the collision. >> we want to. >> warn you. >> it is difficult. >> to watch.

>> first aired. >> by cnn, it shows. >> the moment of impact between. >> the commercial. >> flight and. >> the. >> army. >> black hawk, they collide and. >> then you. >> see them both plunging into the river below. this as new questions are now emerging. >> about whether. >> air traffic control was. adequately staffed the night of. >> the collision. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez. >> is joining. us live from. >> reagan. >> national airport. also with us, jeff. >> guzzetti. >> former faa. and ntsb investigator. >> mark weiss, retired pilot. and aviation expert. and michael mccormick, former faa. >> air traffic controller. >> gabe. >> let's start. >> with. the recovery of those black boxes. the new details. >> in the investigation. >> what are we learning this morning? >> hi there. >> ana. good morning. >> well, certainly, this is a grim part of the investigation as crews, dive crews are out. >> there once. >> again today in. this chilly weather, this rain, trying to piece together what happened here and trying to pick up the pieces. from that helicopter. and from that plane. >> now we understand that. >> investigators, sources tell.

>> nbc news, are looking. >> into whether the black hawk helicopter was flying above its designated altitude. that's, of course, one piece of all this. and also, according to a source. familiar with the situation. >> a preliminary. >> faa report. >> says that. >> staffing levels. >> at the. >> air traffic control tower. >> were, quote. >> not normal. >> because usually there is an air traffic controller focused on the planes and then a separate one focused on helicopters. in this case, during the time of the crash, there was one air traffic controller focused on both the. plane and the helicopter. now we should point out, according to faa safety standards, that. >> is allowed. >> but it is one part of this investigation. let's listen to what the ntsb investigator said just this morning on the today show. >> that is one. >> small aspect. >> of the overall investigation. >> it will come into our air traffic. >> control working group. >> but for right. >> now. >> it's probably just a very. >> small. >> piece of a. >> very big puzzle. every

airport is a living. >> breathing city. >> and so at times you'll. >> have. fluctuations of not only flights. >> but air traffic control. then you have issues. >> regarding weather. >> maybe maintenance on the field. every one of those are different variables. and ana, the living breathing city of course, here at dca, an extremely busy airport, the busiest runway in the country. certainly very difficult to piece together what happened here. and that huge question, why did that army blackhawk helicopter slam into that regional jet? >> ana and. >> gabe. >> we're. >> looking at a live image just. >> beside you there of parts. >> of the plane. >> still in the water. >> we know recovery efforts continue this morning. >> 41 of. >> the 67. >> victims have now been recovered. >> what's complicating those efforts? >> well, certainly. >> just look right there. the conditions here, rainy weather today, but also waist deep water. certainly quite a challenge to pull this out. pull out the blackhawk helicopter and keep it intact. so that is something that investigators

will take some time to do and will be needed in order to move this investigation forward on him. >> gabe gutierrez, thank you for your reporting. jeff. >> as a former. >> ntsb investigator. >> take us behind the scenes of. >> this investigation. >> as it stands now, they have the video. >> they've got radio traffic. they have black boxes. jeff. >> what do you suppose is happening right now? >> the ntsb will be. >> setting up interviews with. >> the controller. >> with perhaps the army personnel that were. >> handling the. logistics of that training flight. >> they'll be coordinating and all the different disciplines between. the accident investigation, whether it be operations, air. traffic control. >> flight recorders, and they'll be having coordination. >> meetings to find out what. >> to. >> do next, but they'll. >> be following. >> their time honored traditions of ntsb investigations by

implementing their investigative methodologies. >> mike, i want. >> to play some. >> sound from the. >> air traffic controller talking to the helicopter, asking if they can see the plane. now, this is very short and hard to hear. take a listen. >> antifa happened is george. >> has an. >> aircraft in sight. separation. >> so you. >> saw pat 25. do you see the aircraft? it's sort of inaudible. the channel breaks up just a bit. then the helicopter pilot appears to say aircraft in sight. and then something. about separation, just based. >> on. your experience. >> mike, running air. traffic control, what's your take on that moment and whether at this point, was it already too late. >> at this time, the separation is provided between a helicopter and a fixed wing aircraft. in this type of airspace, the controller will point out the traffic to the helicopter. the

helicopter report that traffic in sight, and then it will be up to the helicopter to see and avoid maneuvering that traffic. and that's what this transmission is about. it's pointing out the traffic. that helicopter helicopter is reporting in sight. and he's maintaining visual separation with the american crew. unfortunately, as we saw in the video, that did not occur. >> and so. >> i think a big. >> question is. >> why didn't it occur? >> what was it that went wrong in that moment. and in that communication? >> perhaps, mark. >> as we look. >> these images are so dark. >> i want to ask you. >> about flying at night. can you describe the difference and whether you believe that may have. >> been a factor? >> well, absolutely. >> you know, that. >> aircraft. >> the helicopter. was flying to the south. >> the airliner. >> was coming to the north. >> there were other aircraft coming into. land also coming.

>> up from. >> the south to the north. >> i think that. >> the. >> helicopter would. >> have seen a number. >> of. >> lights and. probably not. >> necessarily been able to. >> distinguish which. >> was the. correct aircraft. >> that. >> they should. >> have been looking at. >> and you. >> also. >> have to. >> keep in mind. >> accidents, aircraft. >> accidents don't typically happen from a single. >> reason, a single cause. >> there are multiple causes. >> that will. >> affect the. >> outcome of. >> all of this. it was tragic and it's sad. >> and the investigation will lead to the reasons. behind all of it. >> the ntsb. leaders have. said the. agency will issue a preliminary report within 30. >> days, so hopefully answers come quickly. but as our reporter mentioned, the. >> staffing at dca. >> wednesday night was not normal for. >> the amount of traffic. >> and time of day, according to a. >> preliminary faa. >> safety report on the collision. the tower normally has a controller who then focuses on a helicopter traffic. the other one, another person

who. controls airplanes. >> but at the time that. >> this happened, that position was combined because one controller was allowed to leave their shift early. michael, that position is allowed to be combined per. faa guidelines. >> but how common. >> is that? and can you take us inside. that tower? what's that like for one controller trying to watch and communicate with all these different aircraft? >> washington national tower is equipped with both ground radar and in-flight radar, so they are able to track the position of all aircraft on the surface and in the airspace immediately surrounding the tower. so at the time of this event, you would have 4 or 5 controllers in the control tower orchestrating the traffic in the airspace and on the ground. the fact that the helicopter position and the tower position, local control

were combined was actually not a bad call at this point, because that meant the controller has situational awareness on both the helicopter and on the american regional jet, and that mitigated the. need to have to coordinate and share situational awareness back and forth between the tower controller and the helicopter controller. it's quite normal that when volume is low and controllers are not as busy for sectors to be combined in towers and other air traffic control facilities. >> and yet, it seemed. >> like. there was a. >> lot. >> going on just looking. >> at the. >> video, multiple. >> aircraft in that one. >> image that we've seen over. >> and over again. >> of, of the crash itself happening. >> jeff, there has been. >> a. >> lot of talk about. >> the congestion. >> in the area around reagan national. >> in fact, we're learning. >> that there was. >> another close encounter near the airport. >> literally just 24 hours. >> earlier when a plane had to change course during landing and make an extra go around because

the helicopter was in its path. so do things need to change? >> you know, i think they do need to change. i don't know exactly what needs to be changed, but it is very congested airspace. i live in the washington, dc area. i see those helicopters going through that route, that corridor. there's all kinds medevac helicopters, military helicopters, and they're mixing it up with airliners that are taking off and landing. >> they've been able to do. >> it successfully for decades. every now and then you will have to do a go around in any. airport if there's a potential traffic conflict. but i think this accident is going to spur a. relook at the procedures, the agreements, and perhaps. >> even the volume of. flights in and out. of that airspace. >> mark these questions about. whether the helicopter was flying too high. talk about how tightly or not these flight

patterns are laid out. >> well. >> let me let me just. >> kind of go back and talk a little bit about something. >> from a. >> pilot's perspective. >> the tower, the. >> number of. >> people in the tower. it's. not unusual that this occurs. that's number one. >> the other thing is. >> the pilots. >> have. >> been in there many times. and when you are on an approach and. >> talking to a tower, you are. expecting as the pilot that that airspace has been cleared. now the military. >> aircraft and the civilian aircraft. >> operate on different radio. >> frequencies. >> so. >> they wouldn't. >> have known. >> you are. >> relying on. >> your. >> experience, having been. >> in there. >> on the. >> fact that you are now concentrating. >> on putting. >> that airplane. >> down on that runway in the landing zone. so you are. hyper focused on making. >> that turn. >> on this particular.

>> runway to land. >> at that. >> point. there's an expectation. >> of an. umbrella of safety, so. >> to speak, that the pilots would feel, having been. >> in control. >> in touch with the air traffic. >> control, that now you're cleared to land, now. >> you know that. >> that aircraft. was at 3 to. >> 400ft, maybe 7 or 8. >> seconds away from touching down. >> you don't. >> expect that helicopter. >> to be. >> above to be at that altitude. based upon all the experience you've had in the past. >> why that aircraft? why that helicopter. >> was at an altitude. >> other than. >> its assigned altitude. that's going to be one of. >> the. >> real questions. >> that has. >> to be answered. >> jeff guzzetti. >> mark weiss, michael mccormick, all of you, thank you so much for the conversation. appreciate your expertise. this tragic air. >> collision has. >> ripped a hole in. the heart of the figure. >> skating community. >> next, we'll talk to the ceo

of the skating club of boston, which experienced a terrible loss of skaters, parents, and coaches. plus, should the military be training in this part of the potomac, considering the large volume of commercial traffic, what we're learning about. >> the. experienced crew and the maneuverability of. >> these blackhawks. and president trump sparking a major. >> outcry with. >> his implication that dui policies were at fault for this tragic collision. turning sharply from grief to grievance. sharply from grief to grievance. we're back in 90s. upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. oh! right in the temporal lobe! beat it, punks! only pay for what you need.

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learn how abbvie can help you save. >> welcome back. >> this morning, recovery efforts are expected to resume for those killed in the mid-air collision over. >> washington, dc. >> 67 lives lost. >> in this tragedy. >> on the potomac river. and we're learning more about the victims. the plane's copilot, 28. >> year old. >> sam lilly, was engaged. a friend remembering him as a kind soul, while asra hussain, who was on a business trip to kansas, was texting her husband that she was about to land. >> this was a pretty. routine trip for her. >> and i always pick her up from departures, and. >> i always help her load the bag. >> into the car and give her. >> a big hug and a. >> kiss and then off we go. i had dinner waiting at home. >> so heartbreaking. and the figure skating. >> community particularly.

>> hard hit with more than a dozen people returning from a training camp after the u.s. figure skating championships in wichita. nbc's sam brock is in norwood, massachusetts, where at least six of the victims were part of a local skating club. sam, what new details are we learning? >> of this club? >> this community is coming to terms right now. we're trying to with the loss of six lives. max naumov. he is 23 years old. he lost both of his parents. >> who were. >> coaches here and also world champions. you have gina hahn. her father lost his daughter and his wife. and as you mentioned a second ago, the skating club of boston. >> sent 12. >> different skaters. >> to that elite. development camp. >> they did. >> not. know how. >> many of them were. >> actually on board that flight. hours into the next day, finally getting that tragic. >> resolution. >> the ripple effect of this week's dc plane. >> tragedy can be seen in flowers, portraits and empty ice

at the skating club of boston, which learned six of their own lost their lives. this tight knit sport now uniting in grief. >> it's a. tragic loss for all of us. >> it's just it's terrible. >> that fateful. >> flight to dc from kansas. coming just days. >> after the. >> u.s. championships in wichita, followed immediately by a developmental camp for the sport's best and brightest. >> my heart is. >> with. >> all of the families affected, and that's the part i have no. words for. >> among those. >> on board members of multiple skating clubs, including coach alexander kirsanov. 12 year old athlete brielle beyer and her mother justina. and the half dozen deeply connected to the skating club of boston, including young skater gina hahn. >> i would get a smile on my face seeing her. >> smiling. >> and she was smiling a lot. >> and spencer lane, who had only been competing for a few years. >> the amount that. >> he has. >> achieved in those 3 or. >> 4 years is absolutely remarkable. also lost. >> in the tragedy, their mothers, jin hahn and. christine

lane, and figure skating coaches vadim naumov and zhenya shishkova coaches naumov and shishkova, who were married, won the 1994 world championship as a pair and competed in two winter olympics. >> very nice, whose. >> son max. >> just competed. >> at nationals. >> his parents were his coaches as well as his parents. >> this has split parents from kids and vice versa. >> yeah, it's fractured the community. >> in an. >> emotional press conference, leaders and alumni of the club trying to come to grips with the tragedy, whose impact will be felt far beyond the rink, including former olympic medalist nancy kerrigan. >> even when you're crying, hurt, pain, you get back up and move forward. it's not easy, but that's what we all have to do now together. >> and for many at the skating club of boston, wednesday's crash bringing back painful memories. more than six decades after competitors from the same club died in a plane crash while traveling to the 1961 world

championships. just this cruel. >> coincidence. >> on a cruel irony in that 1961 crash, almost half of all of the victims in some way were connected to this very skating club and literally on the walls over my shoulder, you'll see photographs of all of these national teams from over the decades. that includes the 1961 team. so it is a constant reminder, a weight that had been worn by members of this community. and now here we go with yet another iteration of this kind of tragedy. it's unimaginable. that kind of thing could strike twice. and on a separate note, boston and specifically this skate club is going to be one of the host partners for the world figure skating championships. that is coming up in less than two months from now. anna. >> sam. brock. >> thanks for that reporting. thank you for shining light. and joining us now, doug zakheim, who we just saw in sam's piece. in fact, he is the ceo of the skating club of boston. doug, our hearts go out to you. i'm so, so sorry for your loss. can you talk to us about what you're feeling right now? >> thank you. >> and i have to say, this is

still sinking in. >> we haven't had that. >> much time with it. >> there was a lot of anxiety. yesterday as we were figuring out. were there any survivors? could we possibly be so lucky as to have survivors? obviously that was not the case, and i think our entire community is just starting to deal with it. and to think through what this loss actually means of folks you see on a daily basis, no longer being here. >> sam just highlighted. >> a few of them. we know. >> some of the most promising young figure skaters in the country were on that plane, including from your club. we lost spencer lane and gina hahn. what can you tell us about gina and spencer? >> fantastic kids. and i'm not. >> just saying that. >> truly fantastic kids. gina has been with us. >> for a while. we've watched her grow from her time as a little tyke into this amazingly mature and poised 13 year old. and spencer. only with us for a couple of years. three years

actually, with. >> the. >> sport and a phenom. the guy just spencer had so much natural talent and then combined with a work ethic and they were both gina and spencer were at this national development camp because they were. >> invited. >> because the high performance development department at u.s. figure skating had identified them as potential future olympians. and the future. >> of this sport. >> just seeing some of the video of them skating, it's amazing how beautiful, how graceful, how talented they are, and that's with an untrained eye. it's wonderful to watch them. i know spencer's and gina's mothers were also on that flight. christine lane and jenn hahn, i imagine this community is much like one big family. >> there's no doubt. and, you know, we have 1100 members here at the skating club of boston. we are a tight knit community. but what this tragedy has shown to us is just how tight knit the global skating community is. and

just hundreds of texts and emails and voicemails from around the world reaching out. just to offer condolences and support and how everybody comes together. and it's across the decades to whether it's tenley albright, nancy kerrigan, or just recently, tara lipinski. it's comforting. >> how do you want people to remember the coaches your club lost? vadim naumov and evgenia shishkova. >> phenomenal coaches. they were what we would call developmental coaches. they took kids from their very first steps on the ice, and they turned them into champions, including their son max. they were raised in saint petersburg, russia. they learned the saint petersburg technique of coaching and skating. that is something they brought to us here in boston. they had very high standards, but they were just the kindest, most professional. and gentle folks. their skaters just adored them. >> so. >> so heartbreaking to know, too, that their son, who you

just talked about, had gotten on an earlier flight. thank god he survived, but he lost both of his parents in this incident. so much loss, so much heartbreak there. and boston skating is a club with a storied history. you mentioned nancy kerrigan. we saw her in that piece. and tara lipinski, what kind of loss is this for the broader figure skating community? >> it's, as. >> i said, it's. >> heartening to. >> know that the entire global community is feeling this. i think for those of us who are. >> older. >> and i certainly grew up in the 70s. >> and late. >> 60s in the shadow of the 61 plane crash at the skating club of boston. and i just refer to it as that terrible, awful that nobody would talk about. it was as a little kid you knew something horrible had happened, but nobody was talking about it because it was that horrible. and i think for folks like tenley and our other long term,

long time members, they feel this. and they're referencing back to the horror of 61. >> do you think this tragedy could have an impact on the sport for years to come? i mean, have you have you even been able to go there at this point? >> it's a good question, but no, i haven't been able to go there yet. immediately. just thinking about support for these families, for the kids, for max, for june hahn and for doug lane. and then i think, you know, my next steps, just my responsibility to this club is how do we replace these coaches? and i can't imagine replacing them. so it's really who will be their successors. and i don't know how to answer that, but that's sort of the next step. just so that we can serve our membership. because kids will always still want to skate. >> indeed. doug, thank you so much for joining us. thank you. wishing you peace and comfort

and strength right now. >> appreciate it. thanks so much. >> thank you. victims are still being pulled from the water. and even as those recovery efforts were underway yesterday, president trump implied without evidence that dea policies were to blame. we'll separate fact from fiction in those remarks, prompting outrage. plus, how feasible is trump's plan to send, quote, the worst criminal illegal aliens to guantanamo bay? we'll talk to a former dhs bay? we'll talk to a former dhs secretary. how did i ever miss this? before you were preventing migraine with qulipta? you'll never truly forget migraine, but qulipta reduces attacks making more zero-migraine days possible. it's approved to prevent migraine to help give you that forget-you-get migraine feeling. don't take if allergic to qulipta. get help right away for serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing, face, lip, or tongue swelling, itching or rash, which may occur when taking qulipta or days after. common side effects include nausea, constipation, and sleepiness. learn how abbvie could help you save. qulipta, the forget-you-get migraine medicine.

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hiring, being to blame. >> i put safety first. obama, biden and the democrats put policy first. they put a big push to put diversity into the faa's program. they actually came out with a directive to white. and we want the people that are competent. >> how you can come to the conclusion. >> right now. that diversity had. >> something to do with this crash. >> because they have common sense. >> pointing fingers at his democratic predecessors for policies which have been in place since 2013 and were active during the entirety of the first trump administration, nbc's peter alexander confronted him with that reality at that press conference yesterday. watch. >> the implication that this policy is new, or. that it stems from. efforts that began. >> under president. biden or the. transportation secretary, pete. >> buttigieg, is demonstrably false. it's been on the. >> faa's website. >> you know. >> it's on the website, the faa's website. >> it was there in 2013.

>> it was there for the entirety. >> what i read. >> it was there. >> for the entirety of your. >> administration to. >> so my question is, why didn't you change the policy during your first administration? >> we did change it. i changed the obama policy, and we had a very good policy. and then biden came in and he changed it. and then when i came in two days, three days ago, i signed a new order, bringing it to the highest level of intelligence. >> he also partly blamed his predecessor's initiatives to hire people with disabilities. but take a look at this. it's an faa bulletin from more than two years into trump's first presidency, highlighting its pilot program to help prepare people with disabilities for careers in air traffic operations. president trump's comments yesterday faced swift backlash. the naacp calling those remarks unpresidential divisive behavior, adding that the president was using the highest office in the land to sow hatred rooted in falsehoods. the american association of people with disabilities writing in this post, faa employees with

disabilities did not cause last night's tragic plane crash. it is extremely inappropriate for the president to use this tragedy to push an anti-diversity hiring agenda. let's turn to nbc news white house correspondent yamiche alcindor. yamiche, trump's doubling down on these baseless claims just this morning. walk us through it. >> that's right. president trump and his allies continue to double down. >> on the. >> idea that diversity, equity and inclusion programs had anything to do with. this sad and tragic. collision that. >> happened in dc. >> the president was posting just this morning saying this, this is just one reason why our country was going to hell. his words. he posted not only comments from himself, but also comments from his allies like elon musk and headlines. >> from the new. >> york post targeting diversity and equity inclusion programs, saying criticizing them. we should just note that there is no evidence that diversity had anything to do with this collision as of now. we should

also note that the ntsb. >> is the. >> only agency that is authorized to release information. >> about. >> the cause of this collision. that being said, the president, as you noted when, was pushed on the idea of why he came to this conclusion, said it was because of, quote, common sense. and we've seen a lot of pushback to this naacp, as you said. but also pete buttigieg, who was named specifically by president trump, said that this was despicable for him to use this. but this, of course, all part of president trump's. >> sort of brand. >> of politics in that he talked about. targeting diversity, equity and inclusion while he was on the campaign trail and has made it a key part of his administration. in the first few weeks here, ana. >> all right. yamiche alcindor, thanks for just bringing us the latest comments and putting it all in context for us. joining us now is former homeland security secretary janet napolitano. thanks for joining us. secretary napolitano. first, i just want to get your reaction, your response to some of that finger pointing we heard from the president after this tragedy. >> well. >> it's unpresidential. he's

making unfounded claims before there's been any factual investigation, and he's doing so in such a way to foster his own political ideology, but also to further divide americans. and in a time of tragedy like this air crash. and it is a tragedy, and we need to keep in mind that there are dozens and dozens of families and friends of those who were killed, and we need to keep them in our hearts and in our prayers. but instead of bringing us together and saying, we're going to get to the bottom of this, we're going to find out what happened, and then we're going to take action to prevent it from happening again. what do we get? some some di palaver. it really is unpredictable. unpresidential. >> and here was trump's response when he was asked if he plans to visit the crash site, which is typical when it comes to a natural or an accident that has caused such a tragic moment for

this country. listen. >> i have a plan to visit, not the site. because what you tell me, what's the site? the water? >> or to. >> meet with the first. >> responders down there? >> i don't have a plan to do that. >> you want me to go swimming? he asks secretary napolitano, why is it important for presidents to show up to sites of tragedies like this? >> because presidents are our elected leaders, and by physically going to a site, by showing that they care, by demonstrating some empathy with those who have been hurt by a tragedy such as this air crash, they they help give us confidence. is there anything that president trump has done in the last two days with respect to this air crash that has given anybody confidence? no, not at all. and that, to me is its own

tragedy. >> president trump still harping on the di policies this morning as yamiche brought us. when you see this administration rolling back diversity initiatives and using dei as a catch all culprit for various problems, does that track with the reality you saw when you were ahead of a massive department? >> no, no. and part of it is that dei has has become a catch phrase for anything bad. if anything is bad, it's dei. a helicopter hits a plane going down the potomac river. oh, well, that must be dei. you know, i think the president has a habit of latching on to a few things, and then he just repeats them and repeats them and repeats them. and of course, as we know, repetitiveness leads many people to believe him, which is it's its own problem. but, you know, a diverse

workforce. all that means is that you're drawing from the strength of all americans to work in the government, to work in the public service. i don't know what's wrong with that. >> and in business, for example, there are plenty of data points to show that businesses with more diversity are more successful. but let's let's move on because i want to use your expertise while i have you as a former dhs secretary, and i want to talk about immigration, a lot of moves we've seen in these early days of the trump administration. in fact, just in the first days of these mass arrests, we know hundreds and hundreds of immigrants with no criminal record have been swept up in the operations. what's your reaction to the approach we're seeing? >> well, it was to be anticipated. i think this is one area where they broadcast quite clearly what they intended to do with respect to immigration enforcement. and now we're seeing the reality of that on the ground. and you're right, they've made and tom homan, the

so-called border czar, has said repeatedly they're going to focus on serious criminals who are also in the country illegally. that's fine. that was the policy under president obama. it was the policy under president biden. and there's always more that can be done in that regard. but in their efforts, they are just just to make the numbers that they are striving to make. they are going to be picking up many, many people who granted are in the country in undocumented status, but many have been here for years. they have families here, they have jobs here. they have roots in their communities here and there. and they're going to be swept up to now. there's going to be a lot of visuals to go along with this, and we've already seen that. we saw the visual they put out of a line of guatemalans who had just been captured at the border, being loaded onto a military plane and sent back to guatemala. one can

one can ask over time, is that the best use of our military resources? but but realize there were 70 or 80 guatemalans in that line. the typical cbp flight has about 150. so, you know, you have to wonder. but it's a great visual and it goes all over and people say, yeah, we're doing something just okay. >> just on the use of the military flights. it was notable to me. reuters is reporting that those flights could cost more than five times per person. a first class ticket on a commercial flight could cost. while i have you two, what's your thought on the guantanamo bay plan? the plan to use guantanamo as a potential migrant detention facility? >> yeah, i have a lot of questions about that. and i think a lot of questions need to be asked. first of all, in terms of making the facilities habitable at guantanamo, i mean, there were holding beds there

for cuban refugees years ago and so forth, but they've fallen into great disuse. so there's going to have to be some real investment there to make it habitable. you're going to have to move a lot of people down there. you need guards. you need people to do cooking and catering. you need health care. so that all has to be set up. but the fundamental question is, well, who who is going to be sent there? is it only going to be those who have completed a criminal sentence in the united states, and they're being held there because their country of origin won't take them back? if so, well, then how long will they be held there? will they be held there in perpetuity? you know, what about women and children and families? will they also be held there? will there be a separate facility for women versus men? there are real logistical challenges to putting

guantanamo in place like this. >> former dhs secretary janet napolitano, thank you so much for joining us today. i appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> next here in ana cabrera reports, a confirmation waiting game. will health nominee rfk jr. rf fbi pick kash patel and potential intel chief tulsi gabbard make it to full senate votes after their contentious hearings? the math they need to overcome next. >> lumify. >> it's kind of amazing. >> wow. >> lumify eye drops dramatically reduce redness. >> in one minute. >> and look at. >> the difference. >> my eyes look brighter and whiter for. >> up to. >> up to. >> eight the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention.

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>> hey, anna. >> good morning. all three of these nominees will likely not. get a single vote from democrats, so that means they need strong support from republicans to win the job this morning. it's still unclear if all three have. >> cleared that threshold. >> a contentious. >> day on capitol hill. >> two of. >> donald trump's top national. >> security picks facing. >> tough questions about their. >> past controversial records. >> senator, i will always obey the law. kash patel, trump's. >> pick to run the. >> fbi. taking tough. >> questions about his calls for political retribution. >> against donald. >> trump's opponents and. >> his. >> efforts to overturn. >> the 2020 election. >> but he broke with trump when it came to the issue of. pardons for some january. >> 6th defendants. >> i'm asking, was he wrong to do it? >> i do not agree with the commutation of any sentence of any individual who committed violence against law enforcement. the tough. questions for patel came. mostly from democrats. but for tulsi gabbard, trump's choice. >> as director. >> of national intelligence. a great deal of scrutiny. >> came from republicans.

>> i want. >> to make. >> certain that in. >> no way. >> does russia get. >> a pass in. >> either your. >> mind or your heart. >> senator. >> i'm offended by the. question because my sole. >> focus. >> commitment and. >> responsibility is. >> about our. >> own nation, our own. >> security and the interests of the. >> american people. >> gabbard pressed about her calls for. a pardon. >> for. >> edward snowden. >> edward snowden broke the law. >> who fled the u.s. after. >> releasing a trove. >> of government secrets. >> is edward snowden a traitor to the united states of america? >> i understand how critical. our national security. >> apparently you don't. apparently you don't. >> republicans left the. >> patel hearing confident he. >> was. >> on the path to confirmation. >> there's no question. >> he gets confirmed. >> while their support for gabbard was tepid. only matt gaetz, trump's original. pick for. attorney general, has dropped. >> out of the running. >> and trump. >> has. >> made it clear he. >> wants all. >> of his. >> picks confirmed. >> well, sure, we want fast

confirmations. >> meanwhile. >> robert f. >> kennedy jr. >> trump's pick to run the. >> department of health and human services is facing a new challenge. republican senator. >> bill cassidy, who. >> chairs the committee in charge. >> of his confirmation, said. >> yesterday he's, quote, struggling with kennedy's nomination. that could be a sign he may vote no. >> kennedy can only afford. >> to lose three gop votes and. >> still win. >> confirmation. >> anna. >> ryan nobles, thanks for wrapping it together. and we're going to turn now back to the deadly midair crash over the potomac. and new details about the experienced crew piloting the black hawk. lingering questions about the helicopter's questions about the helicopter's altitude the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. nature knows best. that's why new chapter vitamins... ...follows her example. with key vitamins, minerals, herbs, and whole food ingredients...

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experienced instructor pilot. they were conducting their annual evaluation. and now the pentagon is facing questions about the chopper's path and altitude and the crew's visibility. joining us now, nbc news senior national security correspondent courtney qb. also with us, msnbc military analyst, retired u.s. army colonel jack jacobs. so, courtney, what more is the pentagon sharing about the service members who were on board and their mission? well, ana. they were all experienced. the main instructor pilot was had more than 1000 hours in the cockpit. the copilot had about. >> 500 hours. the crew chief also. >> experienced and. >> not just in being. >> in. >> this aircraft, but also. >> in flying these. these difficult. >> and very. >> specific routes. >> and corridors that and also. and as well as being very familiar with the rules and the restrictions. that go. >> along with flying in. >> this area. >> now. >> they were. >> out on this, as we have heard, a routine training mission. what that really means.

>> is one. >> of the. >> pilots, the copilot. >> in this in this case. was being evaluated. for nighttime flying. >> in this. >> extremely congested area. >> this is a big part of the mission for the. >> 12th aviation battalion. >> that was the. >> unit that they were. >> assigned to out. >> of fort belvoir. they have. >> to be ready. to fly in any conditions in this area, whether it is moving vips around, helping with any kind of an air restricted air. space mission, whatever it is, they need to know how and where they can fly, including right near national airport. and according to military officials, these three individuals on that aircraft. >> were familiar with how to do that. as i said, one of them was an. >> instructor pilot. >> meaning that. >> person not only. had the. >> the hours in the. >> cockpit. >> but would. >> help train other. >> pilots so that they. >> could be proficient. >> as well. >> ana. >> just sadly, there's just no room for error in this situation as we see as we look at the video of the crash. colonel, a lot of people are asking why the

blackhawk didn't veer out of the way. now, we do know the crew members were wearing night vision goggles, colonel. could there have been a visibility issue? >> well, there's always visibility. >> problems at. >> night, even. >> with night vision goggles, which sort. >> of restricts. >> your field of view. but remember. >> all this airspace. >> is controlled. >> by air traffic. >> control. >> and preliminary reports indicated that. >> there was a. >> perception that. >> there might have been a. >> problem. >> which is one reason why. reportedly. >> atc told. >> the fixed. >> wing aircraft to change. >> its flight approach. >> to approach to. >> a different. >> runway at the airfield. >> it's not. >> entirely clear exactly. >> what happened or. >> why it was perceived to. >> do that. >> and that. >> will that. >> will come. >> up. >> later on in the investigation. >> but there. was some. >> evidently some. >> confusion about about the. >> flight paths. >> of the two of the two aircraft. >> on it. >> right. that's even when the helicopter had been in touch with the air traffic

controllers. and that was before the crash. the new york times is reporting it appeared that that chopper was flying too high, perhaps outside its approved flight path, according to four people briefed on the matter. colonel, how much do military pilots rely on air traffic control to coordinate with commercial flights? >> well, completely. >> i mean, every aircraft. >> i mean, this is three. >> dimensional space. >> and every. >> aircraft has to. >> rely on air traffic control. to tell them. >> exactly where to go. >> when to and when. >> to go. >> and to change their. >> routes when necessary. >> and they practiced. >> this. >> time and time. >> again. >> as courtney said. >> in extremely. >> congested areas like. >> that. around d.c. >> a continuous. >> practice is absolutely required. >> since there's. >> so much traffic. and it's. >> in. >> a very, very. >> confined space. anybody who's. >> been in and out of. >> reagan airport knows that. >> there's. >> very little. >> airspace and lots and lots. >> of air traffic. >> so 100%.

>> reliance on. >> air traffic. >> control to do. >> the right thing. >> we did. >> hear reports, obviously, about the fact that. >> the possibility. >> of the air. >> traffic controller. >> being overwhelmed. with having. >> to do two. >> jobs at. >> one time. >> because they. >> were shorthanded. >> that remains. >> to be seen to honor. >> colonel jack jacobs and courtney kuby. thank you both for helping to help our and broaden our understanding of the military side of all of this. and we just got an update on this story. the faa tells nbc news there are new restrictions right now for helicopters in the d.c. area. up next, we're going to head overseas in the middle east, where more hostages held east, where more hostages held by hamas will be released prilosec knows, for a fire... one fire extinguisher beats 10 buckets of water, and for zero heartburn 1 prilosec a day... beats taking up to 10 antacids a day. it's that simple, for 24 hour heartburn relief... one beats ten. prilosec otc. nothing makes a gathering great like eggland's best eggs.

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$5 and get $50 instantly. prize picks. run your game. >> now to some hopeful developments out of the middle east. this morning. an american held hostage by hamas is expected to be one of the three hostages released tomorrow. keith siegel has been in

captivity for more than 15 months. in october, i spoke with his wife, aviva, who was also held hostage by hamas and later released. here's what she said about the last time she saw her husband. >> i said goodbye to keith and he was the saddest person on earth, and i was the saddest person on earth. but i did say to keith, you be strong for me and i'll be strong for you. and i just hope that that's keeping him going. but he was sad, and i was sad. we didn't even know if we'll ever, ever see each other again. >> let's go. >> to israel. and joining us now, nbc news correspondent yasmin vossoughian in tel aviv. yasmin, what more can you tell us about this next round of hostage releases? >> yeah. >> i'm in. >> hostage square. >> it's a quiet night tonight because it is, in fact, shabbat. but tomorrow will be quite different, obviously, with the release of these three potential hostages, as you mentioned,

keith siegel, i'm going to ask my producer to hand me a picture of keith siegel here, as you just showed, because. >> as you. >> walk around the. >> city of. >> tel. >> aviv. >> as you walk around. hoxton square. >> you. >> see this picture of. >> keith siegel. >> the first. >> israeli american. >> to be released during this phase. of the cease fire. he was 64 when he was taken hostage while he's been held. he turned, in. >> fact. >> 65. >> another hostage. >> to be. >> released tomorrow. >> as well will. >> be ofir calderon. >> he's 53. >> years of age. >> and then. >> the final hostage to be released tomorrow as well is yarden boss. >> he's 34 years old. >> you see the baby in yadin's hand here? that is his child. there is another baby that we've seen numerous pictures of another red headed child. we don't know the status of yadin's children. and we're unaware of their whereabouts. initially, they were supposed to be released early on in the cease fire negotiations. so far we don't understand where they are, but we do know.

>> these three. >> will in fact be. >> released likely tomorrow. two things on a i think, that are important to keep in mind as we anticipate what takes place tomorrow, is the timing of all of this so far over the last two releases, the last two weekends, the timing happened midday, sometime local time between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. that is overnight for you guys in the east. the other thing to keep in mind is looking at the scenes from yesterday, and the kind of congestion that took place in gaza, hoping this time the exchange of the hostages will in fact be a lot smoother than they were yesterday. ana. >> okay. yasmin vossoughian. thank you. those families remain in our thoughts and minds until this all happens and beyond. that does it for us this week. thanks for joining us. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. jose picks it up right now. >> good morning. >> 11 a.m. eastern, 8 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. >> we begin this. >> hour with new. d