falling than it is flying. but but it could just be a spatial disorientation where the pilot doesn't know which side is up. it could be a flight control malfunction. it could be a catastrophic engine failure that that causes flight control damage or the startle effect with the pilots. you know, this happened after takeoff. so things are very dynamic during that time. it it just depends. but you can be sure that that video will provide meaningful data to the investigators. >> i want to thank each of those of you who came on and did all of this extra duty for us ali velshi, randy babbitt, jeff guzzetti. on this night of breaking news, when a second catastrophic plane crash in the united states near philadelphia. and thank you all for joining us. i'm going to turn it over to inside with jen psaki, which starts right now.

>> we are. >> following some breaking news out of philadelphia tonight where a small plane, a learjet, crashed in the. northeastern part of the city around 6:30 p.m. >> eastern time, not far from the. >> outdoor roosevelt shopping mall. now, the faa says that there were two individuals aboard the small. private medical plane, both pilots. this is different, i would note, than the information that was put out by the current secretary of transportation. but we're going to get into all the details of what we know. the flight was en route to springfield, missouri. at least three homes and multiple vehicles were struck. there are multiple fires on the scene. our local affiliate, nbc ten, just shared this doorbell camera video of what appears to be the crash itself. >> i want. >> to. >> show you. >> now some door. >> cam video into. >> our newsroom from a neighborhood. >> and there you see. >> it right there. >> so disturbing. >> because now we know what that is. and the plume of smoke and fire. >> this is the first time we are

seeing the video of the plane actually going down. >> authorities are warning folks to steer clear of the area again. there's so much we're learning. this is all happening also in a week. we're here in washington dc. there was a fatal plane crash that killed dozens of people. we're still learning more of that. people's bodies are still being pulled from the potomac river. so a lot of people are shaken. of course, across the country. we're going to talk about all of this. we're also going to talk about some other breaking news in washington, dc, which is a purge of fbi officials across the country. that's all happening. we're going to get to our reporters covering that also later in the show. but i'm going to first start with the breaking news about the philadelphia plane crash. i'm joined right now by former ntsb board member katie higgins. thank you so much, katie, for being here. i think we're all trying to make sense of this and what happened. we're learning a lot, and this is a week where, of course, people here in washington, dc are so shaken by what just happened a couple of days ago.

so i just outlined what we now know. and as we get updates, we're going to share those, of course, with our audience. but watching this, what is your takeaway from what you're seeing in terms of the footage here and the faa statement? >> well, thank thank you for, first of all, for i'm happy to try and help here. honestly, i think we don't know enough. and we don't we see we're seeing all these images. we we're seeing we're hearing parts of information about what happened. and this is why the ntsb, in their traditional role is needed on scene. and i don't know, i'm not sure anybody is obviously there yet, but they will get to the bottom of it. and the question is not to speculate now about what might have happened, but really trying to gather the facts as they present themselves to figure out what was going on and what why. where was this flight before? where did it come

from? what? where was it going to? who were the people involved? whose plane is it? and i don't obviously, i don't have any answers to any of that. but that's where we need to be and we just need to. and i know it's hard in a week when we've had so much grim news, but we need to just say, okay, we will take the time to figure this out, to understand what actually happened, to really look at the information and not to speculate about what the cause or the outcome might be. >> i think this is such an important, important, not warning, but important context for people who are watching right now. because this week we saw a lot of conclusions drawn very quickly. and actually there's an investigative process in place for a reason. so because because you understand how the ntsb works, help our viewers understand when they get to the crash site, what are they looking at, what are they looking for and how long. sometimes these these investigations can take months. what should people understand

about that? >> well, the ntsb generally, at least in my experience, always says give, give us a year. give us a year to find and report and tell you exactly what happened. and that may seem like a long time to people, but there's so much so, so many details, so much information, and they will. god love these people because they deal with this enormous, these enormous tragedies all the time. but they will come and they will figure it out. it's really putting a piece of the puzzle together, and they will look at where the flight came from. where was the plane before it was in philadelphia? who were the operators? who's who owns the plane? what what maintenance did it have? who were the who was the pilot? what was his experience? what was the copilot assuming there was a copilot, what was that experience? what what happened? what about refueling? because clearly there's a lot of fuel involved here. was there anything in that situation that might have affected the outcome here? we don't know any of that. and i'm

i'm giving you the kind of the broad brush, hopefully of what the kind of questions it would be. but we don't know. and that's what we need to understand. we just need to. and it's very hard for all of us in this crazy world we live in to be patient, but we need to be patient. we need to understand what the facts are because there's no point in speculating. there's no advantage in trying to define blame or figure out what happened when we don't have all the facts. so that's what i would say. that's their job. that's what they will do. you're going to be dealing with people who've obviously been dealing with another very dramatic situation in washington, but they're good at this and god love them. they are the best. they really are the best. >> god love them. i love that you keep saying that they're doing such important work. i would just just note because i said this at the top, the faa says that there were two individuals aboard the small private medical plane, that the plane was en route to springfield, missouri. but to

reiterate you, kitty, there's a lot we still don't know. stay right where you are and thank you for being with us. i want to bring in nbc news national correspondent morgan chesky, who's been also talking to a range of sources. morgan, what more do you know of anything at this point about this crash in philadelphia? >> yeah, jen, still an incredibly fluid situation here as we see the videos come in from near roosevelt mall. that is where this learjet went down around 6:00 local time. and right now updates are few and far between. as you mentioned, we do know the faa says at least two people were on board that plane when it did crash. and we've seen that a stunning, tragic video there, as you mentioned as well. we also heard from secretary sean duffy saying reportedly there were six people on board. hopefully we can get some clarity. oh my goodness. oh my goodness. you see that video of that explosion? wow. hopefully we can get some clarity sooner than later here. jen. what we do know from the videos we've been able to see in the newsroom and from eyewitness

accounts, is there is an incredibly wide perimeter that a massive amount of law enforcement has established around this area in northeast philadelphia, where this plane went down. and we heard from one gentleman a short time ago. his name was gregory gibson. he works at a sneaker store inside that mall. and he said that upon seeing that fireball happen, he tried to reach out to colleagues and coworkers who were inside the mall. he has not been able to get in touch with them as of right now. of course, that only heightens the level of concern here. according to the videos that we have seen and the information we do know, we know multiple vehicles were burned. at least several houses also caught fire as a result of the impact. these early indications suggest that the plane did not actually collide with the mall itself, but there is still so much to learn right now as we just see this stunning video of flames burning not just in one area, but across an entire

portion of a neighborhood. here, our nbc ten cameras. this is perhaps the closest vantage point we've had, and we don't know exactly when this was shot, but we should tell you, jen, that this is still very much an active scene. of course, ntsb will be leading the investigation into this crash, but right now it appears that they are just trying to contain this perimeter and figure out what exactly happened. we were able to pull a brief bit of radio traffic from the faa or from the control tower there, where i'll just read it verbatim. here you can hear the question, what's going on down there? and the response is quite telling. we have a lost aircraft. we're not exactly sure what happened, so we're trying to figure it out. that was the exchange that took place around 6 p.m. this evening, local time in northeast philadelphia. as a result of what we now know to be this learjet carrying at least two people on board, colliding in this incredibly tragic scene here, particularly on the heels

of what's taken place in washington, dc. i think what we're witnessing here, hitting everyone that much harder as a result. jen. >> no, no question. we're going to and as you've been talking here, we can see the footage. and i know we're pulling it from different affiliates and pulling it from different video. we have we saw some explosions there. you can see that it's a street that is incredibly busy that would normally have a great deal of traffic. there were some cars that were struck, vehicles that were struck, according to the reports. we're we're clearly learning quite a great deal about this. but this area of philadelphia is a very busy one. and so we'll, we'll we'll continue learning about the impact and the perimeter. thank you, morgan, so much for joining us. we'll look forward to hearing updates from you as you get them. i'm going to bring in ali velshi now, who is, of course, the host of velshi here on msnbc. he's also a pilot, and he's joining us by phone. he also did hours of coverage overnight after the crash here in washington, d.c. ali, thank you so much for joining us by phone. i know you have a show

later tonight as well. tell us what you're seeing here. >> well, i know i'm pretty familiar with this airport. it's the largest airport between trenton and philadelphia. it's about 58 miles from philadelphia, and it falls under philadelphia's air traffic control. so when you're going in or coming out of that airport, philadelphia is one of the busiest airports in the in the country. and so it's a busy, busy area. it's also a very busy intersection where this has gone down. roosevelt mall roosevelt avenue is one of the biggest streets in the neighborhood. roosevelt and cottman is a major intersection. everything is closed down in that area. a few things to know about this. if they. and i'd really like clarity as to whether there were two people on board or six people on board. the minimum complement for a learjet is two, which means you'd have to be your pilot or copilot. if there were more than that. that means there were possibly passengers, possibly somebody being medivaced, possibly medical personnel. unclear why we don't

have that information at the moment, but the range of that plane is about 2500 miles. that's a thousand and a half miles longer than the proposed trip. the trip was to missouri, which means that the plane was probably half filled with fuel. you generally don't want to travel with more fuel than you need for your trip, because you're just carrying extra weight. that's the good news. the bad news is, 1000 miles worth of jet fuel is a lot of fuel. and when that plane went down, what you end up having the number one thing when your plane's going down, the number of things that every pilot is trained to do when your plane is going down, turning off the engines and turning off the fuel is one of the main ones to prevent a fire. because you can sometimes survive a plane crash that the images we're seeing of this plane crash does not suggest this was a survivable plane crash. but in the event that you do, or your plane ends up close to homes or businesses, you want to contain that fire as much as possible. clearly,

you're seeing a lot of that jet fuel on fire right now. the learjet has two engines and they're two jet engines, which means when you're taking off, if an engine were to fail, it's very rare for two engines to fail on a plane. but if an engine were to fail, you've still got a lot of thrust. you've still got a lot of ability, much more than in the sort of planes. i used to fly a propeller plane. but you're at an angle that makes it a little hard to maneuver. so if something goes wrong and that plane were maybe trying to turn around and land again, you are not as comfortable as you are as when you're in coasting flight. you can make left turns and right turns at whatever angle you want. you're a little bit limited when you're closer to the ground, and that's the problem. the enemy is how close that plane was to the ground when it happened. the images you're seeing of that plane come down, suggest an aircraft that was entirely out of control of the pilots. in other words, something catastrophic had happened. there's, as your earlier guest said, way too early to know what that is. and

the ntsb is amazing. and they will get to the bottom of this. and we don't tend to have the same kind of plane crashes over and over again, because we learn from these things. probably won't take them a year, even though they like to ask for a year. i think inside of a few weeks we'll have some evidence. but what they'll be looking for is were there bird strikes, was there something else going on? was there was there a critical engine failure? did they try and go around to a runway that was too short for them to land on? one of the things about a learjet is that it's known for being able to land on shorter runways, which is why they use it for medevacs, because you've got to get to sometimes a smaller airport than a philadelphia or a laguardia or something like that. one of the two runways, they're technically four runways at philadelphia northeast airport, but there are really two. they just go, you know, each direction. two of those runways are too short for a learjet about they're too short by a few hundred feet. but if that's the place you have to land, that could have also been part of the problem. it does not

look like this was an attempt to land. i will say that the way that plane went down looked like a plane that was out of control. there are a lot of reasons that can happen. an aerodynamic stall, as a previous guest said, is quite possible. that means you are doing something with your plane, trying to turn it, or trying to do something with it, and you lose lift. the plane just decides it can't fly anymore because you don't have enough air passing over those wings. that looks like it may have been a contributing factor, but you never know. sometimes with these things, it means there's something fully mechanical or or even something physical with the plane, we don't know, trying to get the tail number of the plane to find out how old that plane is and whether it's been maintained. but the learjet is not an old plane. there's no reason for any learjet ever built not to still be in the air, as long as it's airworthy and, you know, something hasn't happened to it or it hasn't had an accident. so there's nothing obvious here. the weather is visibility is very, very low in philadelphia right now all through the northeast. that's often a contributing factor, although

this is a plane that would have had the sophistication to fly in weather that the pilot can't see. they fly with instruments, flight rules, not visual flight rules. however, on landing and takeoff, you always want visibility, because that's just it's just a safer matter. it's also, as i said, it's a safe plane, generally speaking. so we'll have to we'll have to wait to see what brought this plane down. but it has gone down in an area that is heavily populated with homes that are very close together and a lot of businesses. it does not look like it's gone into the roosevelt mall, but it looks like it's awfully close to the roosevelt mall. the other thing is, it does appear that it some parts of the plane struck cars, which then adds more fuel to the mix, which is why you're seeing fire and a lot of black smoke. >> ali velshi, your sheer amount of expertise on everything always amazes me, including tonight. i know we're going to ask you to stand by for just a bit, if you can. i wanted to

bring in lauren meek, who's a reporter for our local nbc affiliate, wcau in philadelphia. lauren, thank you for so much for taking the time. you're there, you cover philadelphia. you know this area well. can you tell us what's happening on the ground? what are what are you learning about what exactly happened this evening? yeah. >> jen, we're still. >> waiting to. >> learn a lot of the details, but i can tell you what we're seeing on the ground. you can probably see some smoke behind me. i can tell you that's not the only place that we are seeing smoke. we were just recently, just about maybe 20 minutes ago, moved from one staging area to over here because they said where we were was actually part of the scene. and that is one of the challenges here, is that this is a very large area where there could be multiple scenes, and they're trying to get a handle on everything. let me also explain to you where we are in

philadelphia. we're in northeast philadelphia right off of roosevelt boulevard. that is a very busy, very large highway. it is six lanes in either direction. it's a couple of miles from the northeast philadelphia airport that you were just talking about. and it cuts right through an area that is both commercial and residential. so you've got a mall here that you've been talking about. you've got mcdonald's, you've got, you know, your strip malls here. and then you also have homes, residential areas here. so it's a very congested area. we've seen people walking around on foot trying to get back to their homes, trying to figure out what's happening. this is also, of course, a friday night here in philadelphia where you would expect people would be out, people would be trying to get home, people would be stopping at maybe the mall or stopping to get something to eat. so it is a very, very busy and in some ways chaotic scene here. as we even tried to get here, there was one point as we were driving, trying

to get to this area, that we moved down a small street and there were dozens of people that all of a sudden started streaming towards us on foot. they were being pushed by the police out of an area and behind them, over their heads. we could see smoke billowing from a home in that area. so that may be, of course, one of the areas that is on fire. we understand that there were three homes that caught on fire. i'm going to step out of the way so you can see some of the smoke that is behind me here, and some of the police, law enforcement, fire, medical personnel that have all converged on this part of philadelphia trying to get a handle on this situation and respond to this emergency situation. after this plane went down. we are still trying to get new information, trying to get more detailed information about exactly where things landed and what the impacts have been. and but that smoke that you're

looking at over there, it's interesting. you come to a fire, you cover a fire, and you might expect that sometimes you roll up and you can smell that fire right away. you you get a sense of that right away. this is not one of those cases. even though we have seen fires in multiple areas, we're not really smelling smoke. that may be because it is raining at this point. so that may be washing things away, but it also makes it even more difficult for the first responders who are out here and trying to move people along and get to the areas that they need to get through. it also makes visibility more difficult, whether you're walking or driving, obviously flying as well. so it's a challenging situation out here for first responders as they are working to respond to what happened here tonight. john, back to. >> you, lauren. >> you mentioned this is a very busy highway. i think we can see that visually. we also you also noted that there were three

homes struck. the faa noted that multiple vehicles were struck. we've seen some explosions where those vehicles or do we know what those explosions were exactly? >> no. not yet. that is one of the questions that we have when we're able to get some official information from law enforcement. as we were pushed back to this area, i asked, you know, when do you think we're going to be able to really get a briefing where we'll get some some more detailed information? and they said, you know, it may be a little while. so that is one of the things certainly that that we have questions about as well. but no, no information on exactly what, what is happening there that you're describing. >> and before i let you go, i know you're doing so much reporting on the ground. there's a large perimeter that's been described. you noted this. how large for people who are watching at home who aren't as familiar with the area? how large is that perimeter? do we know how far does it go into

residential areas? % terms of how many square footage or miles it goes, but i can tell you that it includes both residential and commercial areas. i was just about a block or so away from here where that mall is, just before i came to this spot, and the mall area is also blocked off, i could see law enforcement, i could see fire vehicles inside that perimeter that was blocked off there. that was on the macy's side. if you happen to be looking at any shots of that or any aerials of that, that was all blocked off. and then there was, as i mentioned, that residential area that we were inside of and that was being blocked off, actively being blocked off as we were driving out of it. so it is a very large area, and it does include both residential and the commercial and the businesses.

>> lauren. mike, thank you. thank you so much for joining us and really shedding some light on what is seems like a horrible tragedy there on the ground in philadelphia. i really appreciate it. and i want to go back to ellie, our own ali velshi, who is a pilot, an expert on many things, helping us make sense of what we're seeing here. ali, i was up very late watching you the other night. do very late night coverage of the plane crash that happened in the washington, dc area. i live in arlington, virginia. it was something that that happened very near where i live. i think a lot of people are watching right now and trying to make sense of or understand how this could happen in twice in one week. you are a help us understand their different plane crashes caused by different things. how are you digesting this? how do you help people out there who are who are scared right now are digesting what they're seeing as a second plane crash? >> yeah. look, i think i agree with the idea that the faa and the ntsb are fantastic. they they are the lead agency, not

just in america, but often for plane crashes elsewhere in the world. right? we call in their expertise always, so they will get to the bottom of it. and while we do not want to speculate, it's too early. i will tell you, these are two very, very different crashes that happened for very different reasons in washington at national airport, what you had is a situation that appears that a plane was hit by something, and at that point, the pilots had no ability to do anything about that. that plane went down the examination. there is going to be why the helicopter didn't see them. whether there's enough separation between planes and there's a lot of stuff, all of which will be investigated and will be changed. the beauty of america is we don't typically have the same plane accident twice, so it will be fixed, which is why lots of people got on airplanes today and it will be fine. this is a very different situation. the visibility is very low and when you are trained as a pilot, i often tell people this you can train somebody to fly a plane in

a matter of a few hours. most pilot training is emergency training, and most of that emergency training is for what happens when you take off and you land. those are the most dangerous parts of flying. you know, when we're landing on a commercial jet, everybody's checking their phone. you've got cell signal. you generally think the flight is over. that's not what the pilot's thinking. when you're taking off on a plane. you're waiting to, you know, to get up to altitude and be able to do whatever you want to do. that's not what the pilot's thinking. so when something goes wrong with the plane that has taken off from an airport means they're not at cruising altitude yet, they're not in the clear. they're not in a place where they know there's no other air traffic. that that everything can be okay. if you're if you're 10,000ft or 15,000ft, or this plane can fly at 30,000ft and you lose an engine, you've got the whole world in front of you to figure out a place to land. when you're in this situation. your your, your pilot training kicks in and the pilot training is first. do as little harm as possible. try to get that plane

to the ground as much as you can, turn off your engines and turn off your fuel so that you do not ignite a fire when you land. the fact that this plane went down the way it did means that it lost aerodynamic lift. there was no ability to control that plane after a point. the pilots had no no ability to point that plane in the right direction, or try and avoid a house or try and avoid a shop. this plane went down because it lost control for a reason. we do not know yet, and hopefully we will find out within days or weeks or months. we will find out and we always do find out. there's enough evidence there. the debris is there. it was close enough to the ground. there would be. what we don't know yet is what the communications was were with air traffic control when coming in and out of any philadelphia airport, same as new york. there's a centralized air traffic control that gives you the coordinates and what you need to know to get in or out of that area. you're also talking to your local tower at philadelphia northeast. there is a local tower, but that

communication will all be recorded. so we will know. and at some point, the pilot, we would assume, if they had some altitude, would have declared an emergency. and generally when you declare an emergency, you state what you believe the emergency is. in a normal circumstance, the air traffic controllers will then tell you, as the plane that's declared an emergency, you have priority over anything you want to do, anything you, as the pilot, need to do to try and get your plane to the ground safely and avoid death and destruction is in your control at that point. you don't have to follow air traffic control instructions. at that point, you come down on your own. so we hopefully will find out what this pilot said to air traffic control. they may have said mayday. there are various codes that they can give that will describe exactly what happened. some mean the engine is out, some mean something else and we will find it out. we will find out what happened, and then there will be directives and there will be training. and some of it might come from learjet, some of it might be very

generalized. it may have nothing to do with the learjet. we do know this is a very reliable plane that has two engines on it. the best part about two engines is that if an engine fails, you have another engine. so this feels like an aerodynamic issue. something happened where this plane lost its ability to fly, lost its ability to have lift. not enough air was going over those wings. that's why a plane sort of turns over and ends up barreling toward the ground. so the visual stuff, information that we have will tell us what it is. and i will say that plane crash has happened, but we often don't do the same thing multiple times. and that's the good part. we will learn what happened. but this was catastrophic because if it was not catastrophic, those pilots would have done everything in their power because they are trained to do this. this isn't really a memory thing. jane. jen, you learn it, you just it's automatic. you know that if you you lose control of your plane, you turn off your plane, you turn off your fuel, you signal to the tower what's going on, and you try and avoid houses, buildings and trees. you try and get down

to a place where nobody will get hurt if your plane goes down. so the fact that that didn't happen, or at least some of that didn't happen, tells you something catastrophic happened to that plane while it was up in the air. >> ali velshi, thank you so much. i appreciate your expertise. i can also add we. nbc news has now confirmed that there were six people on board that plane. so that is new information we're sharing with all of you. i'm going to bring back in katie higgins, who is the former board member at the ntsb. and joining us is also randy babbitt, who is a former administrator of the federal aviation administration. randy, let me start with you were obviously and katie gave us a wonderful warning earlier, which i could not echo more. we need to wait for the investigators to do their jobs, and they do an excellent job. but as we're watching this, we know a few things from the faa. we know just from nbc news confirmed six people were on board. we know that at least three homes and multiple vehicles were struck. we know there's a perimeter. we know that there's been

explosions as you're watching this, what what is your takeaway from what you're seeing in the scenes? >> well, it's a high degree of speculation because, you know, we're kind of lean on factual data, but visibility certainly comes into play. it was a low visibility takeoff. the other possibilities engine failure or even worse, an explosive engine failure, which would damage the airplane and your ability to control it. the airplane did, in fact, and i agree with what was said before the airplane pitched up and then pitched down and apparently out of control. your instincts tell you and speculation again, that the pilot wouldn't just do that unless they, you know, lost physical control of the airplane through control malfunctions. we don't know if the engine. it's one thing for an engine to just die and no longer produce power. it's another thing if that

engine comes apart and imagine, you know, it's throwing essentially shrapnel through the airplane cutting, you know, possibly hydraulic lines, control lines and things like that, which would lead, you know, to or, you know, take away your ability to control the airplane. so much of that is speculation at this point. >> let me just jump in here and add, i noted just a moment ago that nbc confirmed it was six people on board. the company is jet rescue, air ambulance, and i'm just going to read from a press release that they put out. there were four crew members and one two passengers, a pediatric patient and escort on board. no further information is available at this time. at this time, we cannot confirm any survivors. no names are being released at this time until family members have been notified. our immediate concern is for the patient's family, our personnel, their families and other other victims that may have been hurt on the ground. and again, as i noted, as we learn more information, i will of course, be sharing that with all of you. katie. katie,

let me let me go to you. and again, we're learning as we go. we're waiting for the investigators to do their job. ali just mentioned, of course, that that it may be that the pilot could have given notice of an emergency we learned today or in the last 24 hours, about a black box that was that was recovered from the crash in washington, dc. what are the kind of the next pieces of information that investigators would be looking for? >> well, they will be looking at all of that, but i'm thinking about what was the history of this flight before it landed in philadelphia. clearly, this is a flight of a plane that was in operational use. why? what happened between where it was before and what and where it was in philadelphia and this particular accident. it these it's a small jet. it didn't carry didn't carry a number of that significant number of people. but who were the pilots. what was their training. what,

what happened. and we'll hopefully know that from the recorders. so i'm i'm less i mean that's the those are the questions i haven't heard discussed. but this this plane got to philadelphia. when did it get there. who was on board. why was it there. what what were the pilots experiences? and we won't know that for sure, but hopefully we'll have the recordings that would share that. but that's those are my questions. so i'm not sure how helpful that is to your larger discussion. but that's this started someplace. it didn't it ended in philadelphia, but it started someplace else. >> katie higgins and randy babbitt, thank you both so much for sharing your expertise with us as we're covering this breaking news story and this crash in philadelphia. we're going to continue to monitor the news coming from philadelphia this evening. but there's also some breaking news out of washington, d.c, where the trump administration tonight is purging the upper echelons of purging the upper echelons of the fbi. we're going my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis held me back. but now with skyrizi, i'm all in.

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>> right now? >> philadelphia, we are urging you to please stay away. >> from the scene. >> if you. >> see debris. call 911. don't touch anything. this is still an active scene. under investigation. i'm proud to note that all of our federal and state partners, they are either enroute here or on the ground with us right now. we did some see some neighbors who live in the surrounding community. just stay in your home. again, it's still an active scene and it's under investigation. this is only the first of many briefings i'm sure to come on this evening. and of course, when daylight comes, when we have more facts and information to share with you. but i do want to say a special thank you right now, again, to all of our federal and state partners and our amazing first responders right here in the city of

philadelphia. our fire, our ems, our police department. they have been here working vigorously to ensure that we get this perimeter and the surrounding area blocked off to ensure that we make public safety and health our number one priority. so we don't have any further information to share at this time. i've spoken to our governor, josh shapiro. he is in route. i've spoken to our us senator john fetterman. other federal officials, and everyone all hands on deck. that's where we are right now. thank you so very much. and we'll have more information to report in the near future. thank you. mayor. >> we just heard that was just the mayor of philadelphia giving us an update on what we are seeing on the ground. she told residents to stay away from the scene if they see debris. don't

touch it. there are real questions about the impact of on the ground beyond the individuals we know who were on the plane, but fatalities on the ground. we have seen explosions, we know that cars were hit and others. we're learning about that. she also mentioned that governor shapiro and senator fetterman are also both en route. and we're going to continue to bring you updates as we find them. and as soon as they come in. we also wanted to provide you an update, as i noted right before the break on another piece of breaking news tonight here in the nation's capital, where the trump administration has conducted an unprecedented purge at the top levels of the fbi. unprecedented administration officials have forced out all six of the fbi's most senior executives and multiple heads of various fbi field offices across the country. according to current and former fbi officials who spoke with nbc news, this is hostile takeover of federal law enforcement. there's no other way to call it, including the high profile leader of the washington, d.c. field office,

which was involved in the prosecutions of president donald trump. the department of justice also fired multiple federal prosecutors who conducted the criminal investigation of january 6th rioters, according to sources. now, just to take a moment, a step back, i know there's a lot of news you are consuming right now, but these are officials. these are these are not political officials. these are career law enforcement officials, most of whom all of whom have worked under multiple democratic and republican administrations. they are not political appointees. many do not even work in the fbi's washington headquarters, like spencer evans, who's a special agent in charge of the bureau's las vegas field office. in a note obtained by nbc news, evans writes, i was informed by fbi headquarters today that the executive leadership at the department of justice plans to dismiss me from the roles of the fbi, along with several other fbi executives, as soon as monday morning. i was given no rationale for this decision, which, as you might imagine, has come as a shock. these firings

are potentially devastating to the nation's ability to fight terrorism and corruption, investigate crime across the country. that's what the fbi does. but they are also not just about law enforcement officials in washington. there are no doubt going to have an impact on the local communities they serve as well. we're going to be learning more about that, i'm certain, in the days ahead. and it's leaving a lot of these local fbi field offices across the country in a huge lurch. now, at the same time that trump is purging the bureau's ranks, multiple sources tell nbc news that the office of the acting deputy attorney general, former trump defense attorney emil bove, has asked the fbi for a list of employees involved in january 6th cases. now that could include case managers, technical workers, intelligence analysts, workers in almost basically every single field office the fbi has. as one former bureau official told nbc news, this is a really, really big list. you'd be throwing out

like three fourths of the bureau. this type of thing has never happened before. and it comes as the senate judiciary committee prepares to advance the nomination of trump's pick for fbi director kash patel, a maga hype man who has said all of this. >> i'd shut down the fbi. >> hoover building on day one. >> and reopening the next. >> day as. >> a. >> museum of the deep state. what you need is. >> sweeping personnel changes in the leadership structures. >> of. >> the agencies that we've been. >> talking about, steve, for, what, ten years now? >> it's a complete falsehood that you. >> can't fire government. employees and terminate them. that is a total. >> falsehood of the radical left. >> you can eliminate them. >> what you have to do is. >> in my. >> opinion, is. >> take not one at a time, take them all at once. >> but in his confirmation hearing yesterday, patel tried to distance himself from those prior statements. all the ones i just showed you promising not to pursue retribution and swearing he wasn't party to any plans for a purge.

>> are you aware of any plans or discussions to punish in any way, including termination, fbi agents or personnel associated with trump investigations? >> senator. >> just to be clear. >> i did not participate. >> in any of those d.o.j. >> that's a. >> yes or no question. are you aware of any plans or discussions to punish in any way, including termination, fbi agents or personnel associated with trump investigations? >> yes. >> i am not aware of that. >> thank you. >> senator. >> i mean, i know we're all living a version of dog years in this news cycle, but he literally senator booker asked him that question yesterday. he literally said that yesterday. so either he was lying under oath or he was completely out of the loop. or there's another explanation i can't think of. but either way, these purges are already happening. even before kash patel was confirmed by the republican senate majority, it's almost like it's according to the plan that he and trump and others in maga world have laid out all along. as i promised, we

have a great reporter on this kundalini. as the justice and intelligence correspondent for nbc news, who has been covering the story from the start all day long on the phone all day long, providing updates. andrew weissmann spent years working in the department of justice, including serving as general counsel at the fbi under then director robert mueller. and they are just joining me, both of them now, can this story seems very dynamic. it's ever changing. we're getting constant updates from you in our in our email. what is the latest? is there anything i didn't cover there that you've learned since since i reported that since i just announced that. >> jen. >> you laid it out perfectly. >> actually. >> i'll just amplify. >> what you. >> said. >> though, about. >> the list. of fbi agents involved. >> in january 6th. >> that came in a memo. that just went out. >> about an hour ago from the acting fbi director and the man named brian driscoll. >> and the way. >> he. >> worded the. >> memo was. >> very curious. >> he told the. >> workforce. >> essentially. that he'd. >> been ordered.

>> to do this. >> by the. >> deputy attorney. >> general, who used. >> to be donald trump's defense. >> lawyer. and that this list. >> as you said, was. >> a large. >> list of. fbi employees. >> that included him and his deputy, rob carson. and he didn't say that he was going to turn the names over, although he implied that. >> he would. >> he said the. deadline had been set for him to do that. it was almost like he was putting the workforce on notice that he had gotten this order. and, you. >> know. >> it remains to be seen what they're going to do with those names. as you said, if they decide to fire every agent or personnel member that touched a january 6th case, they wouldn't have an fbi left because. it was the biggest investigation in american history. but stepping back, the one thing you didn't mention that that's important for viewers to understand in this picture is that there are a group of political operatives, including a former aide to jim jordan, who have been installed in the director's office of the fbi. and they are operating over there. while kash patel is awaiting confirmation and it's not clear what, if any, kash patel patel's role is in all this, but they are involved in

these decisions. they are they are on the seventh floor of the fbi with blue badges that entitle them to access to everywhere. as we understand it, one of them is a person that has been affiliated with spacex and elon musk. and this really, as you said, is unprecedented in american history. normally, fbi directors serve ten year terms, so you don't have a situation where you have a new fbi director taking office along with a new presidential administration. so we have never in the post hoover era had a situation where an incoming presidential administration has essentially seized political control of the fbi and is carrying out a massive purge of career law enforcement agents. these are people with decades of experience. these top officials who were fired, they run national security. they run intelligence. they run criminal investigations. they run, in one case, human resources and it. and then you have, as you said, the field, the heads of the field office, many of them, as

many as 20 or more, we're told, have been told they're going to be fired or asked to resign. and these are people who live out in miami and las vegas and richmond and places like that who are actually on the ground supervising criminal investigations. it's not clear exactly why this is happening, but there does seem to be a theme that many of these people have touched, investigations that donald trump did not like. >> it's really stunning that i'm. so you covered the local field offices. i mean, nevada, florida, all across the country. they are overseeing criminal investigations, all sorts of investigations that have nothing to do necessarily with political things or washington, d.c. andrew, let me ask you. i mean, ken just covered a number of the things that are so stunning about this. i mean, it's a massive purge. it would it would strike out. so a good chunk of the bureau, brian driscoll, the acting fbi director, seems to have done this against his will. there are people involving jim, nick linked to jim jordan, elon musk, who are walking around the

fbi. i mean, you're the former general counsel. what are you hearing? what are we missing about this story that people should understand? >> i'd say. >> the main. >> thing in talking to you as a lawyer and. >> the. >> former fbi. >> general counsel. >> i dealt with. >> employment issues. day in and day out at the fbi. >> everything that. >> you are. >> hearing that from. >> ken, it's illegal. >> it is against. the rules. >> and. >> the law. >> it's against civil. >> service rules. you cannot fire. >> career fbi. >> personnel without cause. it is. >> simply not possible. >> and the idea. >> that you have. >> the acting. >> deputy attorney. general of. >> the united. >> states doing something that is against. >> the rules. >> it's against. >> the. >> law is. >> the story. so these purges that you're talking about violate the law. >> when you. >> said, jen, these are not political people. these are not.

>> at will employees. >> they have. >> civil service protections. >> you cannot. >> do that. creating a. list of thousands of fbi agents and personnel who worked on january 6th. cases so they can be targeted, illegal. this is something that cannot happen. and it's. >> happening within. >> our. justice department. i mean, i cannot say just how significant this is because of. >> the this is. >> the. >> weaponization of. >> the. >> justice department that we're seeing right before. our eyes. one good note is if. >> these people. >> sue, we could end up with the trial that donald trump. has so desperately tried to not have about the conduct and his conduct. on january 6th, his. >> efforts to. >> whitewash january 6th. well, if you fire all these people, some of them. many of them may sue. and, you know, and looking at what's being reported, i

think that's going to be certainly it's a case that would go to trial and they may very well win. and all of that could be laid out before our. eyes and be the actual trial that they have desperately tried. >> to not have. >> it's such an interesting point. andrew, i wanted to ask you. i mean, you've been talking to some of these officials all day. you've been working all of your sources, providing us all these updates. do some of them sound like they are going to file lawsuits? and what concerns are they expressing to you about what their options are at this point? >> no doubt there will be people who will sue. andrew is absolutely right. i mean, this turns civil service rules on their head. the trump administration is making a gamble here. they are arguing that there's a supreme court case that says the president can fire anybody he wants to. there's also a supreme court case that says that federal employees, civil servants are entitled to due process. and so they're they're counting on maybe this going up to a conservative supreme court who

grants a president new rights to fire people inside the government. but in the practical world that we live in, if that doesn't happen, these firings are illegal. but the thing is that many of the senior executives who were given this option today or yesterday retire or you'll be fired, they were retirement eligible, and many of them have chosen to retire. so it's not clear that those people are going to challenge the firings. now, some of these people were not. and there was one woman in particular who was put in an excruciating situation, and we were told that she she just had a couple of years left to get her full pension benefits, and she begged them to be sent somewhere to answer phones. and we were told that she, that she was turned down in that regard. so but look, stepping back, leaving aside these particular people and their and their personal situations, this has been a shattering moment for the fbi. i'm hearing from people all over the bureau who are saying the bureau is paralyzed right now, essentially, and who would want to work on a public corruption case or any case that they would think would get them crosswise

with political figures in the trump administration at this point? this just raises so many pitfalls for people who are working in what is supposed to be a nonpartisan law enforcement agency. it's also a law enforcement agency with enormous powers of surveillance. it's got an extraordinary paramilitary unit. it's got a fleet of aircraft, it's got incredible technical ability. and a lot of the people, the most experienced people who have been running this agency, are now headed for the exits. there's also a huge brain drain to consider here amid in an atmosphere where there are terror threats, there are cyber threats, there are foreign adversaries, there are massive it's a massive spying campaign by china, one of the most dangerous periods, really, for the fbi in american history. and it is essentially right now almost paralyzed. >> can ken dilanian, thank you for your incredible reporting. we're going to be relying on it. i know in the days ahead, it's such an important note that these are nonpolitical civil servants. they've been keeping us safe across the country, many of them for decades. and it's

absolutely outrageous. i'll just say what we've seen happen tonight. andrew weissmann, always love talking to you. thank you for shedding light on all this as well. i'm joined now by senator angela alsobrooks, democrat of maryland. senator, i there's so much news happening at all moments. i was so struck. let me just first say, by the moment you had in the rfk jr hearing this week, and i want to talk about that and your role on that committee. but i first have to start by asking you about this purge of fbi officials of all levels are law enforcement across the country that we've just seen happen this evening. yeah. >> you know, you mentioned there's a lot happening. so i would. >> be remiss if i didn't first. >> express my. >> condolences yet. >> another plane. >> crashed tonight. so much is happening, as you mentioned. regarding the fbi. i'm a former prosecutor. >> i know. >> so i spent 13 years. >> working in. >> courtrooms and i worked alongside many of. >> our the best and. >> brightest in the law enforcement community. >> including the fbi. >> and as you mentioned, these.

>> are in so many cases. >> apolitical civil servants. >> who are serving. >> our country. >> and what. >> we're seeing. >> now is really it's devastating. >> it's devastating. >> it's not just the fbi. >> but you can just see, really, we can't consider. >> it in a vacuum. >> the witch hunt. >> that. >> we've seen regarding. >> our federal employees, and i don't think there's any term. >> that we could. >> use other than that. >> and these are individuals who are trained professionals. you mentioned. >> the. >> fbi agents. >> who are. >> skilled at what they do. >> these are people, many of whom some voted for this president, some didn't, some didn't vote at all. and these are people who come to work. >> every day to serve. >> our country, much like all of our employees inside our government, who come there to make sure the water is clean, that our. foods don't poison us, and these are people who are being targeted systematically, who have worked for many presidents, some republicans, some democrat, but they come to serve their country. and it is really shameful and disgusting. >> what we've seen, the. >> treatment of these civil servants. >> is really, really disturbing. >> you raised such an important point. you're the perfect person

to ask about it, which is sometimes people think of civil or people who work in the fbi as just sort of fancy law enforcement officials who all just work in washington, d.c. but really, they're in communities, embedded in communities, working on investigations, keeping people safe. help us understand. in maryland, i mean, what would fbi officials be doing in local field offices? >> we've worked. >> with them on a number of cases. >> in regarding violent crimes. >> these are individuals who have worked to help us investigate cases that brought closure. and peace to families. and so these are people who, again, practice their craft over many, many years and help us to keep our communities safe. and, you know, the ironic thing. >> about what. >> we're seeing now is that this president. promised that he was going to be focused on the american people, and he's done anything. but that, pretended to care about our safety, said he would bring down the cost of goods, said he would bring down the cost of housing and none. of the actions that he has taken so far have had anything to. >> do with the. >> american people. it's all about retribution and vengeance,

and none of this will bring down the cost of groceries. none of it will make our communities safer. none of it will will also help us to bring about jobs. and so this is a very none of these actions have anything to do with the american people. it's all about retribution and vengeance. >> he has not spent time. you're absolutely correct on bringing down the cost of for the american people at all. let me ask you while you're here, as i mentioned at the start, you had such a powerful moment at this hearing. this was, i think, your first senate hearing where you were questioning a nominee. is that correct? >> we've had just a few. >> but a few. but this is the first big one in the health committee, the first big one in the health committee. i know you you've expressed and other democrats have expressed their significant concerns, as i share about rfk jr leading that department. what is your sense with your republican colleagues of whether they're going to be enough of them to vote him down this week? >> you know, we'll see. there were questions. >> raised in that. >> hearing that were significant about his qualifications. i think he presented as. >> a. >> person who was entirely unqualified, couldn't. answer basic questions regarding

medicare parts a, b. and c, medicaid. he couldn't talk about medicaid. he couldn't answer basic questions. and this was on day two. a person who espoused these theories, many of which have been debunked by. by scientists and others. and in spite of. >> that. >> you know, he continues to espouse very dangerous theories. and this is a person who would be expected. >> to give advice. >> and who could be a trusted voice for. >> families on issues. >> regarding vaccinations and other things. it's dangerous. it's really dangerous. >> incredibly so. you also, this week i wanted to ask you more about the federal employees in your state because they're also this week, they're also this week were millions of federal workers who across the country received emails encouraging them to resign. we only have about 30s left, but what are you telling these employees? >> not to fall for it? not to fall for it? over 150,000. employees in the state of maryland. you see, the president said he wants all of them to

quit because he wants them to work in the private sector. these are individuals who have spent their careers. i spoke to some of them this week, 37 years working in agriculture, another woman. 35 years. these are people who deserve to be there and should not be pushed out. >> should. >> not be intimidated or silenced so that he can replace them with his political friends. this is the intention is to replace these public civil servants with, with, with his friends and cronies. and this is. so my advice. >> is not. >> to do it. >> senator alsobrooks, thank you for being with us. thank you for your powerful voice. i can't wait to watch you in the weeks ahead. that does it for me tonight. the rachel maddow show starts right now. hey, rachel. >> jen, do. >> you feel like that last. >> hour was one minute, or do you feel like it was about 15 hours long? it's one or the other. i know it doesn't feel like it was an hour. >> somewhere in between eight hours. is that an appropriate answer to. and it's just the sheer amount of news we're all consuming right now is. and just trying to wade through it as we all are. >> yeah, exactly. well, you did a phenomenal job handling that breaking news tonight