front of these audiences many times at conferences like autism one, which is pretty much solely devoted to vaccine skepticism. he has a huge following in these worlds. there are a lot of mothers and families who feel that he really understands them, that he's really speaking to them. but the fact is, he has been part of an ecosystem that peddles doubt, that peddles ideas about the causes of things like autism that are just simply not scientifically possible or accurate. and he has done it for years. >> anna, thank you for joining us this morning. we appreciate it. anna merlin is a senior reporter for mother jones. all right. coming up in another hour of velshi, the latest on the investigation into the deadliest aviation disaster on u.s. soil since 2001, and why donald trump's false scapegoating of initiatives of. diversity initiatives in the wake of this catastrophic crash is actually undermining efforts to keep the skies safe. plus, donald trump's tariffs are here with a brand new levy on our biggest trading partners is going to mean for you. another hour of velshi

begins. >> right now. >> good morning. it is saturday, february the 1st. i'm ali velshi. the faa estimates that its air traffic organization handles 45,000 commercial flights in the united states every single day. there are 5400 aircraft in the american skies at a time, at the busiest times of a given day, 2.9 million people fly in and out of the united states airports every single day. and every single one of those people deserves to feel safe and be safe on those flights. every single one of those people is entitled to know what went wrong in the mid-air collision over the potomac river, which killed 60 passengers, four aircrew and three soldiers on wednesday. and every single one of those passengers deserves to hear the truth and a commitment to getting real answers from the us

president, one who can assure the public that the full power of the government will be brought to bear to ensure that the safest aviation regiment in the world will sustain, and that accidents like the one that happened on wednesday will never happen again. instead, here's what we got. >> we do not know what led to this crash, but we have some very strong opinions and ideas, and i think we'll probably state those opinions. now, i do want to point out that various articles that appeared prior to my entering office, and here's one. the faa's diversity push includes focus on hiring people with severe intellectual and psychiatric disabilities. that is amazing. and then it says, faa says people with severe disabilities are most underrepresented segment of the workforce, and they want them in and they want them. they can be

air traffic controllers. i don't think so. they put a big push to put diversity into the faa's program. the faa's website states they include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability, and dwarfism. all qualify for the position of a controller of airplanes pouring into our country, pouring into a little spot, a little dot on the map, a little runway. i'm trying to figure out how you can come to. >> the conclusion right now. >> that diversity had. >> something to do. >> with this crash, because i have common sense. okay. >> okay. i guess aside from the fact that everything he just said is extremely offensive, it's irresponsible, and it is a danger to public safety at a time of tragedy and unbearable grief for 67 families at a time when we need answers and

assurances. president donald trump decided to blame a plane crash on die with zero evidence. zero. donald trump implied that the laudable mission to achieve diversity in america caused innocent people to die, and it's nothing short of disgraceful. this is not a moment for hot takes, for speculation, for misinformation of any sort from anyone, but especially not from the president. in a moment of tragedy. it's not just callous, it stands in the way of the real work that lies ahead. the only work now is to investigate this crash. and america, through the faa and the national transportation safety board, is the gold standard. the last fatal commercial aviation crash in the united states was in 2009, 16 years ago. we haven't had one since, and that's because of what we learned from that crash and the changes that were implemented in its wake. colgan air, then a feeder for continental airlines flight 3407, took off from newark liberty airport in new jersey and crashed just outside of buffalo. there was light snow,

fog and sleet. at the time, 50 people died, everyone on the plane and one person in the home that the plane crashed into. the families of the victims demanded answers and reform, and they got it. exactly one year after the crash, the ntsb released its final report, which came to 46 specific conclusions. 46 that's how thorough the investigation was. that's how thorough they always are, because the experts at the ntsb don't have hot takes. they just do the work. the conclusions they arrived at included the fact that both pilots lacked experience with icing conditions. they possibly misread safety warnings, and they were both exhausted and fatigued. the first officer had flown to the departing airport in new jersey from her parents home in seattle the night before. she made that commute on a cargo plane and rode in the jump seat, which is typically an auxiliary folding seat not sufficiently comfortable for resting. after the crash, the faa enacted sweeping changes to regulations. the faa mandated

more rest for pilots and increased the amount of hours of flight training experience needed for all pilots. for every commercial flight in america. u.s. air travel has not been without incidents since, but our skies have been much, much safer. a similar thing happened after nine over 11. the u.s. had never experienced a terror attack of that magnitude using planes. at the time, we didn't know what we didn't know, but action was taken, changes were made. the ntsb says the preliminary report on this week's fatal plane crash will be ready in 30 days. a full investigation may take a year. that's the time they need because they are experts. changes will be made and we will all be safer because of it. and we should believe them when they say that, and we should allow them the space to do their investigation without interference from anybody, but especially not from the president. according to a former ntsb investigator, the ntsb is the only agency allowed to release factual information about an investigation. the president, the defense

secretary, the transportation secretary should not have been commenting on investigative matters in the past. the ntsb has removed parties to investigations for doing exactly what we saw donald trump do. there are dozens of potential reasons why that helicopter may have collided with that airplane, and no evidence suggests that any of them have to do with die. the experts at the ntsb do not have answers right now, and neither does president trump. make no mistake, trump's illogical and offensive accusations against disabled people or people of color or people with dwarfism that was not in the pursuit of answers or solutions to this crash. this is just trump's way of furthering his own political agenda, which is to disparage and dismantle diversity in america. he made the choice to stand behind that podium and blame whole groups of people, groups that are already marginalized in this country for the deaths of civilians. no evidence, no facts, no truth. this might be a political game for trump, but it affects real people in real time. in the

hours after donald trump's press conference, a flurry of undue social media attention turned to a transgender pilot serving in the virginia army national guard. joe ellis, a blackhawk pilot, became the target of attacks and false claims that she was flying the helicopter that collided with the commercial jet. she was forced to post a proof of life video to facebook in which she said, quote, it is insulting to the families to try to tie this to some sort of political agenda. they don't deserve that. i don't deserve this. we all know that trump has beef with die and you can agree with him or you can disagree with him, but he cannot blame die for everything. everything. plenty of things went wrong in the united states before there was diversity, equity and inclusion before companies and government agencies started prioritizing hiring more diverse and highly qualified employees. planes crashed when only straight white men flew them and directed them in the skies. and we didn't blame them for the failures or inadequacies or tragedies. we

didn't blame them for their gender or race. we look for why the crashes happened and we solved for them. that's our work. when things go south, we leave it to the experts to get the evidence, to find out what went wrong and to find solutions. anything else is reckless endangerment of the american public. joining me now, eddie glaude, distinguished professor of african american studies at princeton university and author of several books, including his latest, we are the leaders we have been looking for, and melissa murray, professor of law at nyu and msnbc legal analyst and co-host of the strict scrutiny podcast. good morning to both of you. thank you for being here. melissa, you and i have had a conversation in an entirely different context about the chevron doctrine and the supreme court helping to dismantle the administrative state. and we always struggle with the idea that i think the average american doesn't really talk about the administrative state all that often, but it's the idea that we have agencies that are filled with experts that make determinations and come up with regulations. this is a continuation of that. this is a president chiming in with information he doesn't have,

when in fact, we have an infrastructure that involves the ntsb and the faa that will get to the bottom of why that plane crashed, which is the reason why some of us will get on a plane today. and some of us got on planes yesterday and the day before, even after a major airplane crash. >> that's exactly right. >> ali. >> elena kagan. >> of the supreme. >> court has said. >> that the administrative. >> state is the. >> way that we. >> do government. it is. >> government as. >> we know it. we don't go to. >> congress to. >> make regulations. >> congress makes laws, but. then delegates. >> to agencies to make the regulations. >> to enforce those laws. and that's. >> basically how our. >> government runs. >> otherwise it's too unwieldy. it's too big to. >> actually be effective. and again. congress doesn't necessarily have the expertise to regulate in a way. >> that provides. >> for the kind of safety and efficiency that we've come to expect. >> from our government. >> but to. >> link. >> this to the president's attacks on dei, it. >> is worth noting that much of the. >> administrative state is. >> made up. >> of a diverse workforce. >> 40% of federal workers.

>> identify as. racial or ethnic minorities. so this assault on the deep state by what we might call the deep state, because they're not questioning any of this. but that. >> assault on. >> the deep state is not simply an assault on the federal government. >> and. >> administrative agencies. >> it's also an assault. >> on the many individuals who are people of color, who are women, who are disabled. >> americans who are also. >> working and providing those services. >> to the public every. >> day without any without lowering any standards. because that's the mantra now, right? pete hegseth talks about it all the time. why doesn't he like women in the in the military? because they lower the standards for them. the president says when it comes to hiring, it should be about merit. elon musk talks about this all the time that government agencies and companies need to, quote, restore the highest standards. this is it's a it's a slogan based on a lie. >> right. >> absolutely, ali. and i think it's important for us to, to say that and to repeatedly say it. what was revealed in the president's press conference

around the tragic death of 67 people was that dei is a cultural it is what he uses to describe, shall we say, the diminishment of standards as he understands it. so there is there is an assumption, ali, that by definition, if people of color black, brown if women, if people who have who are, who are disabled, who are disabled, if they are in positions of authority, if they are in positions that have any sort of influence, standards are immediately compromised. and we have to understand that for what it is, it is a deeply offensive. it is a claim, it is a racist claim. it is a sexist claim, it's an ableist claim. and so what does it mean to agree with it? and i think to begin to unpack, now that we know what they. >> mean by dei. >> what does it mean for government agencies and for businesses to actually respond to this definition of dei? they're conceding. >> to. >> what i. >> take to be a white christian

nationalist agenda. >> i apologize in advance to both of you, because you are you are two of the most highly educated people we have on this show. so i'm going to i'm going to play you something. from what melissa? from what caroline leavitt, the white house press secretary, said with respect to this crash. and then i'm going to ask you about it on the other end. let's let's listen. when you. >> are flying on an airplane with your loved ones, which every one of us in this room has, do you pray. that your plane lands safely. and gets you to your destination, or. >> do you. >> pray that the. >> pilot has a certain. >> skin color? >> i think. >> we. >> all. >> know the answer to that question. >> i don't even know what the question means, let alone know the answer to that question is creating some kind of dichotomy that we shouldn't value diversity over safety, which means you i don't know, i don't know, i don't know what you think she's saying. i don't know what she's saying. >> it seems. >> pretty clear. >> that the. >> question here is. whether diversity. can coexist with merit. and i. think that answer, just simply based on the show

is. >> yes. >> it can coexist with merit. >> it does coexist with merit. but this is something that this president and this administration has been absolutely assiduous in pushing that these two values are absolutely incompatible. and whenever you have diversity, you have a diminution of standards. and that's simply not the case. i mean, again, we are talking about the i just weeks after we confirmed an. individual who. >> under. >> the prevailing standards. >> for the. >> department of defense, would not have been confirmed as secretary of defense only ten years ago. so, i mean, the whole question of whether standards has been lowered really does seem to be rich. given this context. i want to just emphasize this assault on the deep state, the connection of the administrative state with diversity, equity and inclusion. this is about rolling back the gains of the civil rights movement. it's about eliminating a sector of employment that has actually been pivotal to african americans and other minorities

getting a toehold in the middle class. this is about rolling back those gains, rolling back that prosperity, and putting a group of people in their place. this is about reestablishing re entrenching a form of racial and gender hierarchy. >> this is an important point, eddie. let's just let's mind this a little bit, because there were far more plane crashes before there was anything called die, before we had diversity in the federal workforce, before there were any pilots other than the tuskegee airmen who were there were no commercial, there were virtually no commercial black pilots. there were no women. their planes crashed a lot more. and that has a lot more to do with technology and where we are and safety. we didn't blame white people for the for the for the crashing of planes. nor should we have. we learned how to investigate plane crashes carefully and properly and come up with recommendations. now it's about something else. now it's about standards and diversity. because, as melissa points out, we have a more equitable federal workforce, right?

>> and we need to understand that shift for what it is. right. it is a decidedly racist and sexist and, and, and masculinist agenda. i think we need to be able to name it ali. we've been tracking prior to his election as president, the influence of white nationalism, of white christian nationalism on the trump campaign. we were talking about its elements and project 2025, and now we see it show up in policy and we're not using the language. why not? >> we're relitigating. >> the mid-20th century. we're relitigating the black freedom struggle. we're relitigating the women's movement. we're relitigating the gay liberation movement. we need to understand what's motivating it. and let's be clear, and i and i just have to say this right, every time the country. tires of the quest for racial justice, it falls into. this illusion, this fantasy of trying to get rid. of us, of trying to move us to the margins, to banish difference. that's the. only way a notion of

american identity can cohere is that whiteness must be its anchor. whiteness and maleness must be its anchor. so we're right back where. we have always been. >> this is. >> the this is the contradiction that has shadowed this country since its founding. and here we are running, barreling towards 250 years of america, and we're still grappling with the same nonsense. ali. >> so what do we do in the face, melissa, of the evidence? that's otherwise when pete hegseth got sworn in and then made some comments afterward, he talked about the boys out there. and i always think about the men in the military. he kind of just skipped talking about women fighting men and women. they are elected to congress. tammy baldwin lost her legs as a as a helicopter. i'm sorry, tammy duckworth, senator tammy duckworth lost her legs as a helicopter pilot. what what is enough? what? what is enough to disprove eddie's point that people come, they serve. they they they they die. they provide

their expertise. they get better educations. when is enough for america to not do what eddie says? we keep doing? >> i think that's the million dollar question, ali. it will never be enough, right? i mean, this whole assault on die, you know who is a die hire? we don't know who was hired because of die policies. the assumption is simply that any person who is a person of color or a woman with a high ranking job is undeserving, got this job because of a racial preference or a gender preference and should not be there. took something away from someone else. i think we have to resist this narrative, resist this framing. i think we need to emphasize the idea that dei is not about racial preferences. they constantly frame this in the language of race, but it's also about accommodating workers, making parental leave policies more accessible so that in all individuals can participate in paid work. it's much broader than simply the question of race or ethnicity or gender, and we have to emphasize that at bottom, dei is about

making sure that no talent is left on the table. when we didn't have dei policies, when we prioritized the hiring of white men, we were effectively looking at only half of the talent pool, which necessarily meant we were leaving talent on the table. if we want to be a truly great country, if we want to restore america's greatness, we can't leave behind talented people who could contribute to our society. and that needs to be the message. and frankly, i would love to hear some of our elected officials on the left start talking about this. >> well, we'll do that. we'll try and lead that conversation. melissa. thank you eddie. thank you. eddie glaude is a distinguished professor of american african-american studies at princeton university, author of many important books, including we are the leaders. we have been looking for it. very timely book right now. melissa murray is a professor of law at nyu and an msnbc legal analyst. all right. still ahead, president trump sweeping new tariffs on our three largest trading partners begins today. what do the levies mean for you? i'll tell you when we come back. plus, children's literature is

crucial because it's often the first time that young readers are exposed to ugly parts of society. children's literature is also among the most banned and challenged in this country. today's meeting of the velshi banned book club will examine the award winning the watsons go to birmingham, 1963 by christopher paul curtis. don't christopher paul curtis. don't miss this. —hi! —hi! ♪♪ chocolate fundraiser. ♪♪ with the chase mobile app, things move a little more smoothly. ♪♪ deposit checks easily and send money quickly. [coins clinking] ♪♪ that's convenience from chase. make more of what's yours.

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>> we are learning more about that plane that crashed in northeast philadelphia last night. and the people who were on board an air ambulance carrying four crew members, a pediatric patient and her mother crashed around 6 p.m. eastern time yesterday after taking off from northeast philadelphia airport en route to missouri. the crash set off an explosion that you can see on your screen. it set off set. it set several residential buildings on fire. six people on the ground were hospitalized with injuries. the president of mexico says all six people on board were from mexico and all died in the crash. we

know that the plane was carrying a child from mexico who had undergone life saving treatment at a philadelphia children's hospital. joining me now is the nbc news correspondent maya eaglin in philadelphia. maya, good morning to you. now that the sun is up, what are you seeing and what's happening there? >> hey, ali. so actually, right now, mayor parker is speaking at a press conference. we know from our team members over there. they just announced that one other person has been killed in this accident. that person was actually in a car. and they also just announced that at least 19 people have been injured. we're going to get more details from our team members who are listening in on that press conference. but again, as you mentioned, this was a medevac. there were six people on this plane. one of them was a minor who came to philadelphia for a life saving surgery. and so all the crews out here today are trying to put together what happened and why did the plane go down and cause so much destruction? ali. >> maya, just to be clear, for people who don't know it, you

are literally at one of the busiest intersections in all of philadelphia. the roosevelt boulevard is like about 12 lanes or something like that. >> yeah, roosevelt boulevard here in cottman avenue, they've got it blocked off to the press right now. but we know we are very close to the actual crash site, also very close to roosevelt mall and the airport, which is just a few miles from here. >> maya, thank you for your reporting. we'll stay close to you on this. nbc's maya eaglin in philadelphia. all right. still ahead, president trump's tariffs on america's three largest trading partners go into effect today. the president has tried to convince us that these tariffs are going to make america trillions of dollars from foreign governments. experts say that's not how it works. a very big lesson in works. a very big lesson in tariffs is coming up. sore throat got your tongue? mucinex instasoothe sore throat medicated drops, uniquely formulated for rapid relief that lasts and lasts. that's my babyyy! try our new sugar-free cough drops. instasoooooothe!

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today, february 1st, imported goods from both canada and mexico will incur a 25% tariff, and imports from china will get hit with a 10% tariff, according to new york times analysis. these tariffs could affect 40% of all u.s. imports, including everything from avocados to lumber to car parts to oil. as i said, mexico, canada and china are our biggest trading partners. the united states imports roughly $1.3 trillion worth of goods and materials from those three countries alone. trump and his new press secretary have cited the flow of both migrants and drugs like fentanyl as the main reasons for imposing these tariffs, and trump has claimed that the tariffs will raise trillions of dollars from foreign governments. but most economists agree that's not how this works. so let's dig into it. these tariffs are essentially a tax levied on imported goods, meaning that the us companies which seek to buy goods from other countries must pay that additional tax or tariff. that

fee is not paid by the nation that sends the goods, but by the american importer. and that increased cost is almost always passed on to american consumers to offset the company's new, higher expense. for a moment, let's focus on the trade that occurs between the united states, mexico and canada. the north american trading bloc is the largest trading bloc in the world. the trading relationships we have with mexico and canada, respectively, are larger than any trade agreements we have anywhere else in the world. and because our north american bloc has enjoyed more than 30 years of free trade agreements, from the auto pact with canada to the free trade agreement with canada to the north american free trade agreement, which included the united states and mexico, to the united states-mexico-canada agreement. usmca today, our three economies are deeply and intricately intertwined. in 2023, the united states imported roughly $475 billion worth of

goods from canada. our top import from canada is far and away crude oil. after that, top categories include automobiles and car parts. machinery like nuclear reactors, and materials like plastics, wood, metals and a lot of minerals. the same year, the united states exported roughly $350 billion worth of goods to canada, including automobiles and car parts, machinery, electronics, oil and gas products, and plastics. so we buy more from canada than we sell now to mexico. in 2023, we imported roughly $418 billion worth of goods, a little less than we buy from canada. top imports from mexico include automobiles and their parts, computers, crude oil and fruits and vegetables. notably, half of america's imported fruit and more than two thirds of our imported vegetables come from mexico. mexico is also the number one supplier of medical supplies and devices for u.s.

hospitals and doctors offices. now, in that same year, 2023, the united states exported roughly $320 billion worth of goods to mexico, including electronic equipment, machinery, automobiles and parts, oil and gas products, and plastics similar to canada. and similarly, we sell mexico less than we buy from them. most american cars contain parts that are made in mexico and canada, and in the process of manufacturing, many american car parts cross continental borders multiple times. experts estimate that, barring exceptions, car prices will increase by thousands of dollars. many products like cars, electronics, denim, blue jeans, home goods, processed foods they cross back and forth between all three north american countries as they're processed from raw materials to parts to a finished product at the point of sale. the decades of free trade between us and our neighbors have allowed that process and that relationship to develop. the united states imports roughly 70% of its crude oil

from canada and mexico. and though trump has indicated that there may be a 10% tariff on petroleum products instead of the 25% tariff being applied to the other sectors, the council on foreign relations suggests that american consumers can expect to see gas prices. gas prices rise at least $0.50 per gallon. in response to these new tariffs, both canada and mexico have announced plans to implement retaliatory tariffs on u.s. goods, but the details on those are still to come. prime minister justin trudeau has said that canada will respond, quote, forcefully but reasonably, and canada's former finance minister suggested targeted tariffs of their own in order to exert political pressure. her suggestion, published as an op ed in the financial times, suggested targeted tariffs on tesla products and products from republican led states. mexico's president, claudia sheinbaum, has also indicated that she is prepared to impose retaliatory tariffs, but hasn't provided details about what they might be

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thorn on the side of wall street. under his watch, predatory banking practices were reined in and major financial institutions were forced to slash overdraft fees. in 2022, chopra ordered wells fargo to pay $2 billion in restitution after the bank improperly seized borrowers cars and homes as part of the biden administration's crackdown on junk fees. chopra also introduced a rule capping most credit card late fees at $8 a month. banking industry groups sued to block the rule, and a court temporarily blocked its enforcement. the cfpb, bhp's new leadership, could choose to abandon the legal fight and scrap the regulation altogether. and with chopra's removal, the finance industry anticipates a rollback of aggressive consumer protection policies and a more industry friendly approach. notably, chopra was a strong advocate for student loan reform efforts that have been met with fierce republican opposition senator elizabeth warren, who was instrumental in creating the cfpb in 2011, responded to chopra's firing, saying in part,

quote, president trump campaigned on capping credit card interest rates at 10% and lowering costs for americans. he needs a strong cfpb and a strong cfpb director to do that. but if president trump and republicans decide to cower to wall street billionaires and destroy the agency, they will have a fight on their hands, end quote. and as you know from last week, we have committed on this show to continuously reporting on the attack on consumer protections in america. watch this space. coming up after the break, today's meeting of the velshi banned book club, we're turning we're featuring the award winning and beloved children's classic the watsons go to birmingham, 1963 by christopher paul curtis. the story centers on the close knit watson family and how a visit to their grandmother's house in birmingham, alabama, in the midst of one of the darkest moments in america's history, tests the strength of their family and the power of love as they grapple with the realities of racial injustice.

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that's what you chose to ask it? i had other things planned. ask how to get up to one thousand dollars off the new samsung galaxy s25 ultra with xfinity mobile. >> the watsons go to birmingham 1963 opens on a freezing cold day in flint, michigan. the mood inside the watsons home, though, is warm and inviting. quote. all of my family sat real close together on the couch under a blanket. dad said this would generate a little heat, but he didn't have to tell us. it seemed like the cold automatically made us want to get together and huddle up. my little sister joanna sat in the middle, and all you could see were her eyes, because she had a scarf wrapped around her head. i was next to her and on the outside was my mother, next to dad, sitting with a little space. between them was my older brother, byron. end quote. the watson family is literally and figuratively close knit. they're

loving. they're always laughing. our protagonist is ten year old kenny. he's empathetic. he's smart. he's giving joetta, who goes by joey, is a rule follower follower who wants everyone to remain safe at all times. 13 year old byron, who's just beginning his rebellious teenage phase, is protective and sensitive. but everything changes when the watson family decides to take a road trip south to their grandmother's house in birmingham, alabama. it's there that the family is confronted with racism, emotional turmoil and a defining act of the civil rights era violence. the infamous ku klux klan bombing of the 16th street baptist church that would take the lives of four little black girls. that's the plot of today's velshi banned book club feature, the watsons go to birmingham, 1963, by christopher paul curtis. this beloved children's classic has received numerous awards, including the newbery and coretta scott king honor. the book is an exploration of a familial love of historical racism, the power of friendship, morality, i'm

sorry, mortality, injustice, and the need for generosity and kindness. what the book does so masterfully is it examines both the mechanisms of the civil rights era violence and the feelings surrounding racism, how unfair it is, how unjust, and how inescapable. although the church bombing is central to the plot of the watsons go to birmingham, it isn't a sad or dark book about a tragedy. it's actually a joyful celebration of a beautiful black family that happens to encounter a very grim moment. and that's by design. the watsons go to birmingham uses juxtaposition to make its point. kenny's proclivity for generosity and compassion set against the trauma and the vulnerability that he faces in birmingham. the watson family's levity, love and humor set against the heavy and hateful pain of racism. the cold air in flint, michigan, set against the heat of birmingham. over and over, curtis uses light to make the darkness clear. since its initial publication in 1995, the

watsons go to birmingham is oftentimes the first exposure that many young readers have to the jim crow south. certainly to the 16th street baptist church bombing and this country's long history of violent racism. and since its initial publication, it's routinely been banned or challenged. it's been taken off library shelves and then put back on. it's been read in classrooms and then taken off syllabi. the book is beloved for its writing and its characters, especially our young narrator, kenny. but more than anything else, this book is beloved for the road that it paves over. difficult to discuss terrain for parents, for students, and for young readers in america. i'm joined now by the author of the watsons go to birmingham 1963, christopher paul curtis. welcome, sir, to the velshi banned book club. thank you very much, alice. it's my pleasure to be here. i have mentioned in many of our velshi banned book club meetings that reading a fictionalized account of an historic event is, for many people, one of the best ways to not only tell us, tell the

story, but to build genuine empathy. and i just want to read a short passage from your depiction of the 16th street baptist church bombing. quote i looked into the church and saw smoke and dust flying around like a tornado was in there. one light from the ceiling was still hanging down by a wire, flickering and swinging back and forth, and every once in a while i could see stuff inside. i could see a couple of grownups moving around, looking lost, trying to pick things up. then the smoke would cover them. then the bulb would flicker out and they'd disappear. i could see bibles and coloring books thrown all over the place. then they'd get covered by the smoke. i could see a shiny, shiny black show lying halfway underneath concrete, and then it got covered with smoke, and the light bulb flickered out again. end quote. i've spent time at that church. i've never experienced it this way. tell me more about how you explored the true events that took place through fiction for young people. >> well. >> the story of the watsons go to birmingham started out as a

family trip for me, and that's one of the reasons i think it's effective. >> it's not a story, per se. >> about the civil rights movement or about hatred. it's a. >> story of. >> a family. and a group of. >> children's reaction. to an. >> event that they don't understand. the shoe was from a poem by dudley randall, a detroit poet who wrote the ballad of birmingham. >> and for some reason i read that when i was very young, that stuck with me throughout the whole time, and i'd forgotten about it. and the book was originally called the watsons go to florida 1963. but when they got to florida, nothing happened. so i set it aside. and then the ballad of birmingham came up again and i said, oh, the watsons need to go to birmingham. and that changed everything about the story. and i went back and wrote it like that. but what i really wanted to do was show how young people try to deal with tragedies and

see things in ways that we as adults don't see. there's a naivety, and kenny is somebody who can understand, and he comes up with quick reasons why things are happening, and a lot of times they just don't make sense to us. but i did my best to try to portray a young person's reaction to something so horrible that they couldn't really actually see it. >> so let's talk a little bit more about kenny. he's he's confronted by a shadowy gray figure two times in the story. the first time he almost drowns at the swimming hole and then again during the 16th street baptist church bombing. this was a masterful way to do what you just described to, to explain how children deal with traumatic events. tell me a little more about this. >> well, that would be the undertone. we originally started out. it represented death. it was a representation of death.

and kenny would see this thing. zora neale hurston, in their eyes, were watching god described death coming. and it was something with square toes, gray with square toes. that image always stuck with me, too. so i used that as a representation of death. kenny sees it when he thinks he's about to die, and i explained to young people when they asked me, what is this about? i say, did he actually see? i said, your brain, when you're in a horrible situation, will protect you and it will not let you see what's going on. and it's trying to explain. sony could understand that there was this thing that was trying to pull him under. and then once again, when he went into the church, he he couldn't his brain couldn't handle seeing the bodies of these young girls. and so instead, he saw the undertow again. and the whirlpool. i'm sorry. it. that was john irving was the undertow. mine was the

whirlpool. and kenny. kenny saw the whirlpool in the church, and it represented death to him. and i think that's the way young people look at things. it's very clear there's no gray. it was this was this was the end. and he knew it. >> toward the end of the book, kenny again tells his brother byron that he's ashamed of himself for being scared. you talk about naivete. while entering birmingham 16th street baptist church after it was bombed, and that he was frustrated by the injustice of racism. so his brother byron says to kenny, kenny, things ain't ever going to be fair. how is it fair that two grown men could hate negroes so much that they'd kill some kids just to stop them from going to school? how is it fair that even though the cops down here there might know who did it, nothing will probably ever happen to those men. it ain't. but you just got to understand that that's the way it is. and keep on stepping. end quote. tell me that this is toward the end of the book. >> that's where kenny has. he's gone behind what he calls the

world famous watson pet hospital, where they're pets. in the past, this was in the days before there apparently were veterinarians, as in my youth, my parents told me there were no such things as veterinarians. if an animal was hurt, it went behind the couch, and if it survived, that was fine. and if it didn't, you know, dad got rid of the body. but this was byron's way of telling kenny, you know, you've got to come out from behind that couch and get into things. life is not going to be fair for you. and that's just the way it is. and byron, many people think the depiction of byron. well, kenny kenny's depiction of byron is that he's a bully and a horrible person. but of course, that's a younger brother's depiction of an older brother. and really, byron was a sensitive boy in him, in himself. >> and that's i guess this just gets us back to the first point you make that it's not about the birmingham church bombing. it's a remarkable way for kids to get access to that story. but it's still about the family dynamic,

and it's wonderful. and i'm really glad that you're here. thank you for joining us. thanks for being the newest member of the velshi banned book club. christopher paul curtis, author of numerous novels, including the watsons go to birmingham, 1963, which i just learned was originally the watsons go to florida. but then he changed it. that does it for me. thank you for watching. the katie phang show begins right now. >> i'm katie phang, live from telemundo studios in miami, florida. we begin today's show with breaking news on two tragic aviation incidents. the faa says the national transportation safety board will lead the investigation into a small private medical transport jet that crashed into a neighborhood late last night in northeast philadelphia just moments ago. in a press conference, officials said that all six people on board