on, as am i. and there are many things i'd like to do again, i'd like to fix. i'd like to live it again. but the fact is, don't we. find ourselves making the same mistakes. over and over again? yes, and that's what this does. it examines the humanity of each of us. it's a. >> it's a it's a real challenge. >> and that's it for us this weekend. we're back tomorrow at 6 a.m. eastern. until then, enjoy the rest of your sunday. >> good morning. >> it is sunday, february 2nd. >> i'm alicia menendez with symone. sanders townsend and michael steele. breaking overnight. canada and mexico strike back america's closest trade partners retaliating after trump imposes. >> stiff tariffs. how it. >> impacts your.

>> bottom line. plus, new details on the administration's purge at the fbi. the one official standing up to trump's loyalists. then democrats elect a new dnc chair. our own chris hayes is at the table to react. it is another busy sunday morning. >> so grab. >> your coffee. settle in. >> welcome to the weekend. >> with the stroke of a pen on saturday night, donald trump thrust the country into a possible trade war with its neighbors and risked higher prices on everyday goods for millions of americans. the president signed an executive order issuing a 25% tariff on goods coming into the u.s. from canada and mexico, as well as a 10% tariff on goods from china. the move has forced leaders of america's closest allies to issue stark warnings of what's to come. here's canadian prime minister justin trudeau. >> like the. >> american tariffs, our response will also be far

reaching and include everyday items such as american beer. wine and bourbon, fruits and fruit juices, including orange juice, along with vegetables, perfume, clothing and shoes. it will include major consumer products like household appliances, furniture and sports equipment, and materials. like lumber and plastics, along with much, much more. >> mexico's president, claudia sheinbaum, promised her country would also retaliate with tariffs on american imports. she said tariffs wouldn't solve america's problems, but dialog might. joining us now is our colleague chris hayes, host of all in on msnbc and the author of the new book, the siren's call how attention became the world's most endangered resource. >> chris, welcome to the. >> table this morning, man. >> it's great to. >> be here. the siren's. >> call is really. >> about the. >> the ability. >> to grab and hold attention.

>> well, guess what? i think. >> canada and mexico. >> is sort of grabbing. >> attention right now. >> when you're looking. >> at the. >> response to these tariffs, these trump tariffs, nbc. >> news. >> is reporting what what actually could be. impacted here. noting the. sweeping tariff. >> could make more expensive a host of. >> items that. >> the. >> u.s. imports. >> from its neighbors among the common. >> mexican imports that would now. >> get pricier to. >> bring into. >> the country fruits. >> vegetables. >> beer, liquor. and i emphasize. >> the beer and liquor part. >> for a. >> certain part of our country and electronics. and from canada. >> potatoes. >> grains, lumber. and steel. >> do you. >> think at some point. >> the trump voters will connect. >> the dots that these taxes are going to be paid by them? and this is not necessarily. >> going to. >> hurt the. >> the. >> folks back in canada and mexico. >> that is the big question. i

mean, one of the things that was so strange about the campaign, the strangest thing about the campaign was that everyone agreed that the number one issue in america, the number. >> one source of discontent. >> was inflation and higher prices. and one. >> of. >> the two major candidates, donald trump, was explicitly running on an agenda and campaign promised to raise prices. and this was clear as day. and for some reason, no one listened. wall street, up until yesterday, was saying that the tariffs aren't going to happen. he clearly believes in tariffs. he also seems to have a vendetta against our closest allies. it's very strange that he seems like why is china 10% and right. and canada 25%. i thought this the whole thing was that he was going to get tough on china. he's a china hawk. china's been screwing like why is china 10%? and the other thing you got to say here that's so wild is the current tariff structure between the us, canada and mexico is set by an agreement that was negotiated by donald trump's administration the first time

around. it's the it's the agreement that they made. >> except that, you. >> know, that this isn't. >> really about. >> trade, right? >> this is. >> about him trying to villainize some of our greatest trade partners and. >> allies. >> and especially, i think, in the case of mexico, to sort of reframe this as a question. that's really about immigration and fentanyl, when it has nothing to do with that. let me read you the statement from claudia sheinbaum. she writes, we categorically reject the white house's slander of the government of mexico, alleging alliances with criminal organizations, as well as any intention to interfere in our territory. if the united states wants to combat the criminal groups that trafficked drugs and generate violence, we must work together in a comprehensive manner, but always under the principles of shared responsibility, mutual trust, collaboration and above all, respect for sovereignty, which is non-negotiable. coordination? yes. subordination? no. but he only speaks the language of power. so actually coming together and having that type of relationship would seem impossible for him. >> yeah. and i think you're right about this, this sort. of the necessary role of

demonization. i mean, to michael's point, when. >> we started off. >> with, like, part. >> of donald trump's. >> you know, he sort of way of operating, as i write in the book is like this attentional dominance, even if it's negative attention. and he understands that like conflict drives attention. so he's picking fights because that is what drives attention. but but. >> the scarier. >> thing here, and this is the thing that hasn't set in. it hasn't set in. when you talk to republicans, people on wall street, he has a pathological obsession with tariffs. like he genuinely, truly believes like, yes, it's part stunt. yes, it's part demonization. but also you can't move him off. this idea, this wrongheaded idea that terrorists are this the solution to all of america's problems? >> you know. i just. >> symone. >> i was. >> thinking of you last night. did you notice i had, like, i went into my email and there were, like, five different emails from the white house as though they put out five statements from this. and i was thinking of you as someone who has done that work before, where

it's like it didn't project confidence, right? like when you actually believe that what you're going to do is work, you're like, here's the thing, we're doing it. it felt like they kept explaining. >> yes. and i think the wall street, i mean, honestly, when the wall street journal editorial board, which is the conservatives conservative, the editorial board, not the right wing but still conservative when they are smacking you down, i do think that there is this need to kind of flood the zone, if you will, with information that says, no, no, no, no, no, this is a good thing. this is a good thing. i think that those statements were a little bit more for the president and less for anyone else in washington, d.c. or across the country. but, you know, the reality is this, is there going to be real implications for this? i thought, you know, because i was placing my orders yesterday, i'm not going to lie. and these tariffs, they will take effect on tuesday. anything shift for saturday will not be affected. but this is something that goes directly to kind of what people can feel and see. and chris, i was thinking about your your book in this and you talk about

how, you know, we've got sirens now all in our lives. sirens are meant to compel anybody to know sirens from the from the mythologies, if you will. but now we've got sirens all throughout our lives, going off in our bedrooms, on our tvs everywhere. and it seems to me that this is the tariffs are directly connected to, will be directly connected to people's everyday lives. people can feel it is it is, it's real for folks. and that will be something that grabs their attention. >> yeah. >> i mean, one of the tests here, right, is like how much? there's a real open question about how much what people pay attention to is actually organic in some sense of like what hits them and what is mediated through the attentional environment. and i think there's this, this idea a little bit that like the reality outs in the end and it's not quite clear that's true. like it is true that pocketbook issues drive people. i think people will start to see those prices. but there's also storytelling that has to go along with that. i mean, when we had the big supply

chain crunches back in the early parts of the biden administration, there was tons of storytelling about that. that wasn't just, oh, my lumber is more expensive, right? there's so part of the role here, i think, for the democratic party, for independent journalists, is to actually talk like, tell the story in an intentionally compelling way about what's going on because their their job is to sort of distract from that or to or to draw attention to the places they want to draw. >> it. >> particularly trump. but this question of like, will people start to see it and put that together is a little bit of an open question. i think they will, but i don't think it's guaranteed. >> chris, what do you. >> think the. >> siren call. >> is for. trump relative. >> because you. >> touched on it relative to these. >> three players. >> mexico, canada and china. my assessment. >> is, yeah, he. >> projects he. >> hates china. >> you know he everything. >> is you know china bad china bad. >> yet they're. >> not penalized here the way

our allies. >> are our. >> friends to the north and the south. you know. instead of, you know, let's negotiate a border deal with mexico. and canada. if you're concerned. about fentanyl and drugs coming. oh, by the way, donald. >> trump, the largest, you know. >> purveyor of fentanyl coming into. >> the country. >> are united states. >> citizens, not mexicans. so just so you know, what do you think that siren call is for. >> him relative to china? what is he. >> hearing that that actually weakens him when it. >> comes to. a lot. >> of bloviating. >> not much agitation with with respect to things like tariffs. >> so here. >> is a consistent thing that he's done. he i think he likes he likes the attention that conflict draws. he likes conflict with allies as opposed to actual adversaries. he is routinely and consistently picking fights tougher on getting into conflicts with allies and sort of, you know, extremely generous to

adversaries. i mean, look at the way he talks about look at the way he talks about russia. obviously, the fact that china is getting off relatively cost free here compared to allies. but look, the way he talks about nato, the way he talks about canada, the way he talks about mexico, like what it is for him is he likes the conflict, he likes to project strength, but he's sort of a coward fundamentally. and the stakes of actual conflict and fights with adversaries is much higher. and so this is a way of kind of a little bit of bullying and cake and eat it too, where he can like play tough against justin trudeau, which is a very different thing than playing tough against xi. >> can i just note is what he did with is what he does with gavin newsom or any. >> yeah, exactly. >> he says he doesn't like he's all talk and then he gets on the tarmac like, hey, how you doing? >> yeah. >> it's great. >> good to see you. >> and he says it. >> like that. >> hey, how you doing? >> he's got that little mike tyson voice. chris, i. >> want you to. >> stick with us, my friend, because i want to get get your

thoughts. >> on the. >> democratic national committee's new chairman, ken martin. >> and we. >> still have to, of. >> course, talk about your great. >> book. >> the siren's call how attention. became the became the world's most endangered resource. we're going to get into that with. >> chris, because you're >> chris, because you're watching the [clears throat] sounds like you need to vaporize that sore throat. vapocool drops? it's sore throat relief with a rush of vicks vapors. ♪ vapocooooool ♪ whoa. vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops. carpet stain remover and deodorizer. just spray. and the stain and the odor goes away. why bend over and scrub? that's back breaking work. stand up to stains and odors and let bull shot do the hard work of carpet. >> and. >> upholstery cleaning. >> for you. you love your pets. >> but when. >> fido has an. >> accident, you better have bull shot. this black light shows every drop of that urine stain, but bull shot quickly eliminates that stain. the

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ro covid day. >> my entire. >> life has been spent preparing. >> for the. >> end times. my father, founder. >> of the now. >> infamous oath. keepers stewart rhodes. >> the third, was going to. >> save america. >> from the end. >> of the world.

>> the big lie is that there was some concerted planning of the capitol and it just wasn't. >> stewart was becoming increasingly unstable. >> people are gravitating. >> to him like a son. i bet everything. >> on him being locked away forever. >> members of the democratic national committee have just selected the man to lead their party's comeback. >> ken martin, the. >> chair of minnesota's democratic-farmer-labor. >> party who just. >> appeared on this program last. >> week. >> will now run the dnc for the next four years. >> we have. one team. one team. that's right, the democratic party. >> we have one fight. we have one fight. >> the fight. >> is not in here. >> the fight. >> is. >> out there, right? the fight. >> is. >> not in here. the fight is for. >> our values. >> the fight is for working people. the fight. >> right now. >> is against donald trump and. >> the billionaires who bought.

>> this country. that's a fight. >> not in here. >> the fight is not in here. >> chris hayes is back with us. >> and you're right, simon. the fight is not. >> the fight is not in here, chris. it seems to me that that is that's one that is messaging to say it's time to come together. whatever little things we had going on in here, we got to put it to the side because there's work to do. but also attempting to project this strength and this, you know, posture that people have been looking for, for from democrats specifically, you know, in the last week and a half, two weeks since donald trump took office, it's like, where's the fight? people want the fight. and ken martin is saying he's going to bring it. >> yeah, i thought. >> it was interesting. i mean. >> there is this. >> palpable sense of a leadership vacuum. and partly that's always the case, simone, as you know, when there's an out party, right? i mean, the party that has the white house has a leader because they've got the president, and the party that doesn't is trying to figure out where leadership is, where leadership is going to emerge from. i don't think it's necessarily the dnc chair, but there is this palpable sense. i

think we've all sort of seen examples of it, of people looking around being like, this is crazy, who is standing up against this? and so i think that that was the note that ken martin was trying to strike there, i think fairly effectively. but again, there is more appetite for mobilization in opposition to what we're seeing than is currently being led and engineered at the top of the party, i think is a fair thing to say. >> you give this. >> great example in the siren's call of how any of us will like, be at a party or in a restaurant, and we're having one conversation, and then all of a sudden someone like over here will say your name, right? and it has this ability to absolutely slice through whatever it is you're talking about, and all of a sudden your attention is redirected. what is the corollary in political messaging to someone across the room saying your name, but actually grabbing your attention? because right now a lot of sort of the post analysis of this past election is like, well, democrats messaging wasn't good. well, the consultants suck. it's not quite that simple. >> yeah, it's a really good. >> question, because one of the

things that makes this age different, as i write in the book, is that this faculty we have for what i call social attention. so in paying attention to you, someone naming you is woven into the platforms at scale in a way it never was. right? so like, tv advertising couldn't talk to you, alicia. but you could get your mentions in a social media platform. and now that experience of being talked to directly has been democratized for everyone. there's a question about like, how to utilize that in political terms. and there's been a lot of stuff about very personalized messaging. but one of the things i think we saw in this last campaign is that at the highest level, which is a presidential campaign, the overall attentional atmosphere is what matters. like that's and that, i think, was that there was like a mismatch in this race. kamala harris ran a very good campaign in certain ways where they did the things that you're supposed to do. they raised money. they spent the money on advertising, the advertising like did its job. if you look at the numbers in the swing states, it's much smaller than the numbers. they weren't running the ads, but it was overwhelmed by the overall attentional atmosphere. and so

to go back to that question of like, how do you grab people's attention? high stakes conflict, big dramatic fights, and you have to have them to get like for it to break through. i think right now democrats have this idea that, like, it's going to happen by itself. and i don't write symone, i don't know, it feels and there's a little bit of that. right. which is, you know, hakeem jeffries had a tweet or post the other day. he said, you know, i'm a new york yankees fan and i'm a fan of aaron judge. and one of the things that makes him a great hitter is he doesn't swing at every pitch. and so we're not. and i get that with trump. like he's done 100 things, you know, between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. but you got to swing at some pitches. you got to take the bat off your shoulder. and i think there is a sense of the you have to get back into this in an environment in which attention is the most powerful resource, which donald trump understands more than anyone. you have to be a participant in that battle. and if you're not, you're not doing anything right. >> but it's part of the asymmetry, which is if they're if they're grabbing your

attention through crisis, you don't want to become part of the crisis, right? >> this is part of the problem. one of the reasons the sort of trolls dilemma, as i write in the book that is represented by elon musk, is that one of the things that the troll figures out is that the shortcut for getting attention is obnoxiousness, conflict, and being negative. right? so it's actually harder to do it in a way that's positive or persuasive or not trolling. and that's actually just the sort of burden of, you know, being the not troll party. >> chris. >> we had. >> we had. >> fun getting into the siren's call of. >> my podcast. it was great. >> which which was really, really good. riveting conversation. and one of the. >> aspects of this. >> which you. >> just touched on. >> i want. >> to pull up. >> for everybody. to sort of dig into is, why are we. losing against the call? >> why why. >> is it that we're so. susceptible as a nation right now. >> to this. siren's call. >> which is guiding. >> the ship of state. >> into the rocky. shoals in a

way that will utterly destroy. >> and ultimately sink, sink it. >> well, part of it is because, you know, as attention has gotten more and more important in a more crowded information environment, one of the things we're susceptible to is that attention is not a moral faculty. everyone understands that there's a category of things that compel our attention that aren't actually that important. like we have a category of adjectives to describe it. it's lurid and prurient and tabloid. right. and this is where trump lives, right? trump lives in the place of like, the spectacle you can't turn away from. that's of course, also what's been sort of engineered into our phones. so both of these things are happening at the same time. and the point is that democratic governance relies on a kind of collective willfulness around where we put our attention to actually sustain deliberation and debate. and we're at war right now with someone who is sort of weaponizing our attention against ourselves and billionaires who are doing it as well. and what we have to do is

like, individually and collectively wrest that back in order to be able to do the stuff of self-governance. and that's that's the project right now, like truly right moment to moment, particularly as you see the last 11 days. it's what i write about in the book. >> chris hayes. >> my man. >> thank you so much. >> for getting up and being. >> with us. >> it was a delight. you guys are great. >> absolutely. there's the book and it's a good one, folks. the siren's call how attention became the world's most endangered resource is out now. it's available. go get a copy. you'll love it. and if you like a pre a preview of chris's. >> new book. >> in the latest episode of his podcast, why is this happening? you can hear a chapter of the sirens called it's there for you to get a taste of it like that coffee in the morning, baby. so scan that qr code on your screen to listen today and you can catch chris hayes every tuesday through friday night at 8 p.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. he's the man. >> and we'll. >> be.

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catastrophic injury or death, call klein. inspector. >> so, new dnc chair. look, the race was always split between ken martin and ben wikler. 448 members of the democratic national committee would make this decision. and ken martin came out on top. and so he's now the chair. there were some other notables. david hogg was elected as one of the dnc vice chairs. pa state representative malcolm kenyatta was also elected as a vice chair of the dnc. and now i would argue that the work begins. the biggest challenge from my perspective is that democrats don't have, you know, two, three weeks a month to, like, get up and running like the democratic national committee has to retool itself and make changes immediately to respond to the current environment, but also be proactive for the voters that they're trying to, you know, seek. >> their first test. is this november. you've got two races in new jersey and one really big one in. virginia for the

governorship there. >> and how you. >> develop that messaging, that strategy, the how you engage the grassroots in the state. that will set up the modeling for what will happen next year. so the chairman now has to really. think strategically. and he's noted as a strategic thinker. but politico does make make some. interesting points. and i'd be curious your thoughts on. >> this. >> alicia as well, they say in selecting martin, democrats did little to answer some of the deepest questions the party faces as they search for a path out of the political wilderness. cutting through that, i note this last sentence, notably martin during his campaign for chair. that the party already has the right message. >> yes, he was consistent in saying. >> and he's. >> consistent in saying that. but you can be consistently wrong if the facts don't bear that out. and i don't think the facts bear that out, because if you had the right message, your fate would be a little bit

different. >> and i think that's true. >> well, yeah, you're hanging on the hat that you didn't lose as much as you thought you would have lost in the environment that you were in. but there is something about the messaging that is at the core about messaging, right? all i know is how to do it. and so it's how you set up your win. it's like any, like any game. you got to set it up and you set it up with the messaging. and so anyway, that's just me. but you know. >> it's just a little faux humility to get us started on this sunday. what is he. >> what does he know about the messaging? i was just a chair of the. i was just the first. first, i was just the chair of the rnc. the first black man to chair the rnc. what do i know about messaging? what do i know about messaging? >> but apparently. >> before we go to commercial break, i do want to ask you something because i know that you you talked to a lot of these

members who did the voting. did you have a sense talking to them of why ken martin ultimately won? like what it was about his candidacy that was persuasive to the membership. >> they felt that ken martin was not was a national like could be a national party leader. not that ben wikler couldn't, but he has done great work in wisconsin. but the ken martin, he has led the state party chairs across the country. and he's somebody that has a vision. and they felt like he would be a fighter and really would understand, like be able to jump right in. and they liked what he had to say about in messaging. and he aligned a lot with martin o'malley, governor o'malley on that point. but it was very, very close. i will note very, very close. lastly, there are a lot of outside people who are not dnc members that endorsed in the race and they didn't pick ken martin, but notably the members, the people with their skin in the game. they chose ken martin. and i do think that that's an interesting dynamic going forward. and, you know, that's we're going to ask some other folks like governor kathy hochul. she knows firsthand how donald trump's tariffs are going

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descriptions, contracts and web pages. the directive is, of course, part of trump's anti-diversity agenda, which civil rights attorney charles coleman points out stems from a desire to preserve the myth of american exceptionalism by making it easier to reward those who are not most deserving, but instead those who represent what we have been sold as the archetype of. what is american, white, male, straight, and christian. charles coleman joins us now. he is also an msnbc legal analyst. >> charles, thank you for being here this morning. talk to us more about this false idea of meritocracy that donald trump and his buddies keep pushing. >> well, good morning simone. in the article that i wrote, i used pete hegseth as the poster child for what we're talking about here during his audition in front of the senate for his confirmation hearings, he repeatedly espoused the notion and the virtues of meritocracy. meritocracy. we need to be merit based. and yet, at the same time, this was someone who lacks the moral fiber as well as the qualifications to assume the

position that he was ultimately qualified for. all of this, all of it, as i say in the piece, is connected to the protection of the notion of, of basically american exceptionalism as a myth. and that's why you saw the rift between steve bannon, who's someone who was very invested in that myth, versus elon musk and vivek ramaswamy, who were calling it like it is to basically say, look, if you want to be exceptional, if you want to be at the top, then you actually have to do something other than simply say, i'm an american to get there. >> i'm still trying to figure out, charles, how how the hell you sit here and put out a statement about the importance of black history month and how we want to do all this, all this stuff for black people, and then tell your government that anything they cannot celebrate black history month, they cannot level up a conversation around the efforts to include black people in this government or in

this country. so help me square that obviously contorted, distorted circle. >> i don't know that i can help you square it. what i can tell you is that i'm almost as confused as you are. and as much as look, we've seen white nationalism and an element of white nationalism power. donald trump from 2016 all the way to the present. that has always been a part of his shtick and his jam and those of his supporters. what we saw that i thought was interesting, however, was there was a point during the last administration where it felt like the right was easing, the easing off the gas with respect to the notion of culture wars. we weren't hearing as much about it. and then out of nowhere, it seemed once donald trump had gotten elected again and now has been inaugurated, and the new president, he basically ended the war, the culture wars, without firing a single shot. but at the same time, i think he's taking advantage about the fact that there are still some people who are not paying

attention. so that's where you have the opportunity to sort of talk out of both sides of your mouth, as you've just pointed out, because folks who are watching this are saying like, you are, well, if you're taking everything about culture out of the federal government, how do you then basically put out another statement in favor of black history month? the two things do not square. and quite honestly, michael, i'm as just as lost as you are. >> and they're taking aim across the board. right. it is in part about government agencies and practices there. it's also about education. you had this happening on wednesday. the white house cast its executive order on teaching as an effort to end indoctrination in american education. it threatened to pull federal funding from schools that teach about gender ideology, the idea that one's gender identity can differ from their biological sex at birth, or discriminatory equity ideology that's in quotation marks, a label that order attaches to a range of ideas around systemic racism. what does this actually mean? it means that there are principles across this country who are being sent memos that say, no,

no more talking about martin luther king. right, right. and that puts that principle in an untenable position where they have to decide whether they are going to protect their school, their teachers. >> their jobs. >> their jobs, or they're going to teach kids what kids deserve to know about the history of this country. >> you know, alicia, there is a very unique and special power for being able to dictate what is and is not american. and i think that when you're looking at what we're happening, what's happening now, the ability to sort of create a space and place, whatever it is that you do not agree with or align with outside of that space, it is an enormous amount of ability and flexibility to influence how people think about america, about about what america is and who americans are. and that's a very intentional effort. that's exactly what we're seeing. we're seeing it with respect to gender. we're seeing it with respect to race. we're seeing it

with respect to nationality and ethnic origin. and that's not something that is by mistake. it is super duper on purpose. that's what people need to understand. when you talk about the notion of white nationalism and being exclusionary, this is what it looks like. but it has a bigger purpose. because if i get to define first who is american and what's associated with that, then i get to tell you what rights those people actually have. >> you know, this whole debate, call it a debate, let's be honest. but this whole conversation about the meritocracy, i just feel like that they are playing in our faces, one, because the whole it it, it sugge not even suggests they are blatantly saying that anyone who is black, latino, hispanic, a woman, asian american, pacific islander, indigenous in a position of power likely got their job because of that gay right or

bisexual even got there. trans is there because of that and not their qualifications. but somehow the white men. let's just be very clear, because that's what they're saying somehow. but if you are a white man, that's the merit. we're there because merit, you know, we worked hard, but the rest of y'all, y'all ain't work hard. y'all just are there because of diversity. to me, that is just they are so very clearly saying it. and i and i am concerned that from the white house briefing room on down to executives in the private sector and corporate america across this country seem to be just acquiescing to that ideology, essentially. >> can i also just underscore something that i think is embedded in what you just said? symone, i also worry that in addition to all of that, they are deputizing regular people to question why anyone who is not a white, straight, christian man has ascended to the role that they are in. and that scares me as much as the people who have institutional power. go ahead. charles. >> no, and i. >> just can i just add just one more piece on that? i just want

to ask elon musk and zuckerberg and all the others, how many black folks you got working around you? >> well, i think the last two points are exactly where i was going. number one, with respect to what alicia was talking about, that's the whole point. the whole point is that if we create a space and set the bar, whether the bar actually should be there as around straight white christian men, then automatically anyone who's looking to see something other than that is going to be questioned. and then in terms of your questions, michael, that really speaks to exactly what simone was talking about with playing in our faces. look, the numbers are the numbers. and there are less than 5% of black americans who were able to benefit from dei in terms of being hired as dei professionals. this does not play out statistically in a factual way. and so all of this is based on is based on a myth that is powered, again by the notion of american exceptionalism, exceptionalism. >> i just want to continue to tell people out there, because i want this is this is just it's difficult to we have all had an

experience where someone has questioned where we are and suggested that we did not work to be there. and i think that to hear it come from the white house so blatantly and to alicia's point, deputizing people across the country to also do that is very heavy for a lot of folks. and i just want to encourage people out there, do not let these people run you out of the room. >> and as one friend put it to me, die is become the new n-word. >> well, on that note. >> charles coleman, thank you so much for being with us. up next, new york governor kathy hochul is ready to stand up to the trump administration. she joins our conversation after the break. you are watching the weekend. >> your life. >> is pretty smart. but when it's time to eat, suddenly. >> you feel out. >> of sync. refresh your routine with factor chef prepared meals delivered with a tap dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5

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comprised of a 19% increase in exports and a 28% rise in imports. the states are the ones that will carry the burden of his illiberal, unhinged reaction to whatever we don't know. but he somehow thinks that this is a public policy of engaging a tariff war, that somehow a state like yours is going to be immune from. talk to us about what this means, and canada's response, potentially to the citizens of your state. >> well. >> we're deeply concerned about this. we have a strong trade arrangement arrangement, and they've been partners of ours since the beginning of our country. new york state has one of the largest borders with any country in the world. because, you know, we have the water line, the water and land crossings. but there's a synergy between our two communities,

canada and new york state are really it's like all part of one region. and we have a lot of trade between us. and it's critically important for our farmers and our manufacturers and all the areas we produce, materials that canada needs, that we get that across the border with ease. now, canada and this is not a surprise, is already talking about retaliatory tariffs on our products. so our businesses are going to feel it immediately. and also just why are we doing this. new york state is the economic engine of the country. when you do something that hurts new york because we are in such close proximity to canada, it's going to have a ripple effect across the country and i'm concerned about that. so if this is a temporary measure to get the attention of the other countries, mexico and canada in particular, to talk about fentanyl coming across the border, we'll continue focusing on that. i'm putting more money on the border to stop that as well, right here in the state of

new york. but but this is going to be an additional tax on new york residents and american residents overall. and i don't see a way around that. this is what we're facing right now at a time when i'm working so hard to put money back in new yorkers pockets, an additional 1400, $1,400 a year is going to take that money right back out. so consumers are the ones who are going to bear the brunt of this. and that would concerns me so much. >> you know, governor, during the past presidential campaign, there were so many democrats who tried to make it clear that even if you live in a democratic state, even if you live in a blue state, you would be in impacted by some of the proposed changes from this republican party, from donald trump. we're now seeing that play out in real time when it comes to abortion. access this from the washington post. you have a new york doctor who's been charged with prescribing abortion pills to louisiana girl. the case appears to be the first instance of criminal charges against a doctor accused of sending abortion pills to another state, since the u.s. supreme court overturned roe v wade in 2022. you have said you would never, under any circumstances, turn

this doctor over to the state of louisiana under any extradition request. what other mechanisms are available to you to protect health care workers in new york? >> i will protect this doctor and all health care workers because this is the continued collateral damage of the overturning of roe v wade that we saw at that moment, and we sound the alarms about it. but sadly, this is the law right now where it's left to individual states. but i have to protect my doctors, and my doctors have a right to prescribe prescribed, fda approved medication via telehealth, and for having a doctor in the state of new york who simply answered the call of a mother who wanted to get this prescription filled legally, and now to be facing jail time and conviction as a, you know, an accomplice to murder here. where has this country gone? it feels like we've lost our minds. we're now penalizing doctors who are trying to do what they can. in a

state like louisiana that has 60% higher maternal mortality rates, sometimes these medication assisted abortions can be life saving for someone who's having complications. my gosh, where are they? what has this country come to? so i will continue to stand up strongly to support women's rights to abortion. this was my mother's generation's fight. it's something we all took for granted, and it's not there for my daughter. and it better be back in place for my granddaughter. these are the values we espouse in new york, and i will protect this doctor. i will never, ever sign an extradition agreement to send this doctor into harm's way, to be prosecuted as a criminal, for simply following her oath. >> governor hochul, can we turn to talk about immigration? new york state has literally been in the, i would argue, the top of mind for some trump administration officials. we have this from our colleague jonathan allen. on friday, us president donald trump's new

homeland security secretary made sure cameras were rolling when she joined federal agents to arrest migrants in new york city. secretary kristi noem said the publicity created around the arrest was to show that the new administration was taking a different, tougher approach. what are your thoughts about these? these stunts is what it looks like, because if you look at the numbers, actually the trump administration is these these raids aren't necessarily new. they're just bringing cameras and the secretaries to execute what ice officers have been doing. even when president biden was in office. so just your your reaction to the target that is on essentially the backs of people who are migrants in this country, undocumented, but also people who are american citizens who are also being swept up into some of these raids. >> that's right, that's right. so let's let's level set here. ice has come into the state of new york for many years. whether it's someone who's already served time in a prison and

they're being removed back to their country, if they've been convicted of a crime here, if they have a warrant for an arrest, there is cooperation from state and local officials that is nothing new. so there's a lot of drama around this, but i have to make sure that, yes, we keep our streets safe, that we remove the gangs that have been terrorizing some of our neighborhoods. yes, that is critically important. i'll support anyone who can do that. but we will not let people get swept up into raids when they are simply here trying to earn a living. i what i want to do, i want to put people to work. i have 400,000 open jobs in the state of new york at all levels. i have a database with 52,000 jobs of people who said, if we can get migrants work authorization, which i desperately need from the federal government, that's a whole new ballgame. they'll hire them. so this is good for our economy. if we can take the people who've already come here. and again, our borders are too fluid. they were to open. i believe that we need a strong national immigration policy, like the kind i worked on when i

was a staffer for senator moynihan and ronald reagan worked with democrats. i still have hope that there can be a bipartisan approach to dealing with this and have our borders protected. but let's deal with what has happened already. we have people who are in our communities, and children are not going to school now because they're afraid of being their parents, being swept up. if they pick them up and people are cowering in church bases. this is the state of new york. we're not going to let this happen here. we will work with law enforcement. we'll make sure that the criminal element is gone. we all want them gone. but we also have a place in our state, and we can take care of people who have already been here, who are already contributing to our tax base. they're doing jobs that so many others didn't want to do. so let's recognize that as well. >> governor kathy hochul, thank you very much for your time this morning, folks. don't you go anywhere because there is another really great hour of the weekend coming up. we've got national security attorney mark zaid. congresswoman yvette clarke is here, new chair of the

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absorption. learn more at dos daily co. >> welcome back to the weekend. nbc news has just learned new details about donald trump's purge at the fbi, and the one leader who's been pushing