rhodes, who was sentenced in may of 2023 to 18 years in prison for seditious conspiracy following the january 6th attack. donald trump commuted rhodes sentence on his first day back in office. the film features estranged members of rhodes family, including his son, who have since become de-radicalised. watch king of the apocalypse tonight at 9 p.m. eastern on msnbc. that'll do it for me. thanks for watching. i'll be back next saturday and sunday at 6 p.m. eastern. follow us on instagram, tiktok and threads using the handle at weekend capehart and blue sky using capehart at capehart dot. msnbc.com. keep it here. ayman is next. good evening. >> tonight on ayman. >> the trump musk bromance. >> has taken a. >> new dark turn. >> what could. >> possibly go wrong with musk having. access to america's checkbook? >> plus. >> trump says there might be pain caused by his trade war. >> but he. >> says higher prices on you. >> would be worth it.

>> and we are just days from trump's meeting with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. will it be more of the same, or will trump take. >> a different course in the middle east? >> i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's do it. >> again. >> this weekend. >> the trump. >> administration came. >> after usaid. an independent government. agency administering foreign aid. >> elon musk's department of government efficiency, known as doge, has now. >> forced its. >> way into the agency's classified systems. >> and now. >> the very. >> officials who. tried to push back are. >> placed on. >> leave after. >> musk's team. >> tried and succeeded. in gaining. access to personnel files and security. >> systems, including. >> classified systems and security. >> clearance information. >> for usaid employees. this comes after treasury secretary scott bessent gave musk's team

access to the department's $6 trillion payment system, which handles federal payroll. retirement benefits, health. >> care and. >> government insurance. as first pointed out by senator. ron wyden, musk now has access. >> to the social. security numbers. >> government contract payments, including those that compete with. his own companies. what he doesn't. have is a security clearance or. >> the right to access. >> that information. now. >> this comes after the acting deputy secretary. david labrecque, at. the treasury department, resigned friday. >> after musks. >> team first. >> requested access to their system. >> musk has always made his intentions clear. >> just this weekend, he. >> he admitted that he wanted. >> access to. >> the personal data of. many so that. >> he could. >> shut. >> down what he calls illegal. payments to essential nonprofits. well, today, he took it a step further. he actually called usaid. a criminal organization. >> and based on new. >> reporting from. >> nbc news, federal. >> workers across several.

>> agencies are growing. >> worried over. >> what they describe. >> as trump's war. against his own government. >> as elon. musk helps carry. >> out his battles. and we can. >> report that employees are. >> receiving emails reminding them constantly that they could be fired at any moment. one of them told us that if you want government. >> to function, you wouldn't attack. >> federal employees. >> daily with psychological warfare. >> you'd want them. >> to show up motivated. now, the. president might. be using musk to carry out his dirty work, but. >> don't lose. >> sight of what musk is really in it. >> for. >> possibly his own. >> bottom line. take this past september. >> when musk. >> called for. >> the faa administrator at the time, mike whitaker, to resign after first finding spacex. >> then. >> ultimately grounding starship operations. following an explosion. >> during a test launch. >> that left fields. >> of debris on. >> communities below. >> by inauguration day. whitaker was gone. >> thanks in. >> part to the. >> pressure campaign that was. >> launched by musk.

>> in fact, as. >> the plane. >> crashed last week. over washington, dc. >> the united states. >> actually had no faa administrator. >> shrinking government has always been on musk's. >> to do list. >> he's always raged against big government. >> and now. >> a man who's always down to troll. >> and get petty has. access and potentially control of sensitive. >> federal data. >> not to mention all the data he has. >> through owning x. >> we should. note that elon is. >> amping up the antics at a. >> time when polling shows. many americans not. >> cool with billionaires calling the shots. 6 in. >> 10 americans. >> say they believe it is dangerous. >> that president. >> donald j. >> trump is. >> relying so much. >> on billionaires for policy advice. in short, folks anywhere. else an unelected. >> billionaire creating a government. >> department out. >> of nowhere. >> taking control of. >> classified and personal. >> data, bullying officials. >> out of their posts, and helping a leader purge. >> the federal government.

>> as i said, anywhere, we would probably be calling that a coup. >> let's get real about something else. elon musk. >> is. >> not a federal employee. >> nor has he been appointed. >> by the president. >> nor approved by the senate to have any legitimate. leadership role in government. with me now, former republican congressman denver riggleman, he's the author of the breach the untold story of the investigation into january 6th, and also served as a senior adviser to the january 6th select committee. also with us democratic strategist julie roginsky. she's the author of the salty politics newsletter on substack. it's great to have. >> both of. >> you with us. >> congressman, i'll start. >> with you. the outrage from the republican party, safe to say minimal. >> at best. >> you would also think that trump wouldn't want someone stepping on his toes and. >> kind of. >> stealing the limelight from him. but here's where we are two weeks into this trump administration. >> why do. >> you think the gop is normalizing this kind of behavior from elon musk and donald trump? >> hey, it's good to see you tonight. i think it's because

they're polling and crosstabs still show favorability. >> to. >> donald trump. i don't really think they care about the american people. they care about winning in their specific district. and, you know, what's amazing to me is that when, you know, when i was a republican. >> way. >> back in the day, when. right, big government picking winners and losers. you want small government. well, now we have republicans. and when you look at polling people who are trump and support trump, all of a sudden they think big government is the way to go. and i just find it so interesting, right? this picking winners and losers is the thing that people want, right? when you're looking at where where this is going. and i just find it fascinating and also absolutely disturbing that this is happening. you know, the flip to that, to allowing elon to run through the woods like this without any security clearances. but the other thing is, is that it's going against directly against the competitors that he has, which is something i know you mentioned at the beginning, but that also blows my mind when you talk about conflicts of interest for any type of contractual obligations. and the last thing is the security clearances. vetting is awful. julie knows this vetting is long. it's irritating. it's frustrating. nobody wants to

fill out an sf 86. it sucks, right? but it is an absolutely necessary function because you don't want a bunch of people looking through private files and payment files that haven't been vetted properly. and i think we're i think the cancer has been injected to the system. and i think we're going to see it here down the road. >> let me share with you and. >> let's talk about. >> democrats for a moment here. and let me share with you what congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez posted on x a short while. ago about this uae usaid purge and musk's access to it. it's on the screen there, she wrote. this is a five alarm fire that people elected donald trump to be president, not elon musk having an unelected billionaire with his own foreign debts and motives. rating us classified information is a grave threat to national security. this should not be a partizan issue. probably the strongest comment we've seen from a democrat. we've also seen from senator ron wyden. >> but give. >> me your take on why the democrats seem to be sitting on the sidelines right now. why are we not. >> hearing more. >> outrage from this? why does this need to be? there's such.

>> a. >> lag between when something happens and then formulating an opinion or formulating a statement and coming out a couple of days later. why is there not more outrage? >> you know, that's a great question. and i'm disgusted about it. and i've been banging the drum about this for literally weeks, if not months, since trump got elected. look, you have hakeem jeffries. >> the leader of. >> the house of. >> representatives. >> saying, and i think i'm paraphrasing here, but very close to quote, i'm not aaron judge doesn't swing at every at every pitch, and i'm not going to swing at everything that trump does. well, does he think he's pitching against sandy koufax here? like like who are you. >> talking about? >> this is not sandy koufax. this is donald trump. everything he. >> does is a. >> lob. >> and it's easy to attack. and by the way. >> if. >> you. normalize any part. >> of. >> it, you. normalize all of it. and so for the leader of the house of representatives on the democratic side, for chuck schumer, fighting chuck from brooklyn to basically. >> say, i'm not going to lie down, you know, i'm going to. >> lie down on the tracks on some of these things. >> what are. >> you doing? >> you can't normalize.

>> any part of this. democrats have tools at their disposal. even in the minority, they can stop with unanimous consent. and denver knows this. they can stop unanimous consent. they can ensure that you have that everything has to be voted on to go to cloture. i mean, there are things that they can do to really gum up the works in the senate, and they could stop voting for every single one of trump's nominees. marco rubio. >> by. >> the way, who's. >> going to subsume usaid. >> allegedly 99. >> to 0? why in the world would you give any. >> member of the. >> trump administration that kind of win? absolutely inexcusable for the democrats? and by the way, if they don't start behaving like the opposition party, these leaders are going to be replaced. i think they completely misunderstand the anger in the grassroots from people, including me, who's basically an establishment democrat and has been for 30 years to say, enough is enough. you cannot do this anymore. >> the mistake that hakeem jeffries and others are making is possibly the fact that, look, no one is saying, you know, you want to take a swing at every policy difference, but there are now fundamental things that are eroding our democracy. when you fire inspector generals, when you go after government employees, when you have access

to payments, these are things that are eroding the way our government functions. these are not policy differences. >> i'll go a step further. donald trump said on meet the press back in december. on this network. he said, i'm going to lower the price of bacon, the price of apples, and the price of i forgot what else. >> yeah. something else. groceries. >> basic groceries. >> right. >> apples have gone up every single week that he's been in office. where are the democrats talking about that? where are. >> they. >> talking about the price increase? i mean. fundamental easy lobs. again. >> this. is not. >> swinging at every pitch from some ace pitcher. this is literally reminding the american people what was promised to them and what is being delivered. and yet there seem to be somehow and some i don't know where they are, but wherever they are they're not out here talking about it the way you are, the way alexandria ocasio-cortez is, the way senator wyden is. these are the leaders that the democratic party is looking to, and they're absent. and if you are listening to me, i'm begging you on behalf of the grassroots of this party, please come out of your hiding hole because we need you. and if you're not

going to do it, get out of the way and let others lead, please. >> what do you think, congressman? how long this this bromance between musk and trump will last? i mean, i wonder to what extent musk is operating with the blessing of donald trump, knowing exactly what he's doing every step of the way? or has trump now gotten behind musk or musk? i should say getting out ahead of his skis a little bit and trump kind of playing catch up? >> i think, you know, julie, god dang, i love being on here with you. when you get angry, it makes me happy. and you know the other thing, too, when you're talking about the musk trump bromance, i think it lasts as long as trump thinks that he can actually gain wealth from elon musk's participation in united states government. and you know, julie's exactly right about the language. it seems like the democrats have no idea how to attack insanity, which happened over the last few years also. well, i sort of do know how to attack insanity. you have to call it like you see it. and right now we really have a billionaire, you know, or

actually, i would say an incel trapped in a billionaire's body running through our government organizations and wreaking havoc on it, putting fear into people, you know, with the damaging and threatening emails. but i think there's something even worse, you know, and i think that is that we have data, united states data in the hands of people that haven't been vetted. what is that data? go. and when you see elon musk and i know at the beginning, amy, you said that, you know, he rails against big government. well, he loves chinese big government because people should look at the state owned enterprises that have invested in elon musk's companies. so where is all this money going? how are they directing those monies? what are they doing with contracts? how are they identifying the competitors in the spaces that are going directly against elon? how is he enriching himself? but really, how is he enriching donald trump's family? i think the bromance, the bromance lasts as long as donald trump thinks there's money going in his pocket somehow, based on elon's activities. >> i don't know if you would be able to answer this, but i suspect the way our government works is that there must be some kind of oversight to prevent somebody like elon musk having this complete carte blanche

access to classified information systems, as well as personnel information. and, you know, the conflict of interest thing maybe falls in a separate bucket. but you'd like to think that there's got to be something, anything that congress can do. of course, on this. >> issue. >> of course, it's called separation of powers. we have a constitution that has checks and balances, both from the courts and from the legislative branch. but here's the beauty of what donald trump has done. he has completely subsumed the legislative branch. they have bent the knee to the point where they are terrified of crossing trump, but they're also terrified of crossing musk because thanks to citizens united, he can pour an. unlimited amount of money into any primary and take any of them out. and you've got the courts, which, of course said to donald trump, you can do whatever you want as president and it's not criminal. >> and by the way. >> you're also able, because of the constitution, to pardon anybody who does anything criminal in your behalf, no questions asked. so is there something on paper that the founding fathers thought they could do? of course, they came up with a fabulous system. unfortunately, we've gotten to the point where the system is

collapsing. it's not working. and again, the only people that should be pointing this out all day, all night are the democrats, and they're not doing what they need to be doing. >> all right, julie, congressman, please stick around. we're going to continue this conversation on the other side of the break. we're going to dive into trump's trade wars to dive into trump's trade wars and what the p ♪♪ chocolate fundraiser. with the chase mobile app, things move a little more smoothly. ♪♪ deposit checks easily and send money quickly. ♪♪ that's convenience from chase. saatva mattresses supports all types of sleepers. luxury is handcrafted and assembled in american factories and brought directly to you with our complimentary in-home delivery and setup service, which is why over 90% of customers would recommend saatva to friends and

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the way i approach work post fatherhood, has really trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. >> my hair was getting. >> stronger and thicker. >> and. >> i finally. >> feel like myself again. >> the big lie. >> is that. >> there was some concerted. >> planning of the capital. >> it just wasn't. >> stuart was becoming increasingly unstable. >> people are gravitating to him like a son. i bet everything on

him being locked away forever. >> president trump's first 100 days watch. >> i'm going to be here five days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up. >> half the night reading. >> executive orders. >> for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> all right. >> thanks to the trade war that trump launched this weekend with canada, mexico and china. and to absolutely no one's surprise, he is now admitting that these tariffs could, in fact, bring pain to americans. well, technically, trump posted on his knockoff ax that there might be pain, but also maybe not, but that if consumers are hurt, it's a price. that quote must be paid. in case you haven't heard. trump slapped a 25% tax on imports from canada and mexico and 10% on chinese goods. it all takes effect tuesday. his order

also threatens these nations from retaliating. well, guess what they're doing? they are. canada and mexico say they'll implement their own tariffs on u.s. products. china says it will take its countermeasures to the world trade organization. as for that pain that trump says is possible, here's how you might feel it. keep in mind that just last year, these countries accounted for more than 40% of all u.s. imports. economists forecast these tariffs would hike the cost of fruits, vegetables, vehicles, vehicle parts, electronics, clothing, lumber and, yes, even alcohol. i can go on and on and on, but you get the point. julie and former congressman denver riggleman are both back with me. congressman, i want to take your i want to get your thoughts. excuse me on how republicans are actually spinning these tariffs and trump's trade war. listen. >> the fact is these countries are. taking advantage of us all along the way while. we've got fentanyl streaming into our country. >> if prices. >> go up, it's. >> because of other.

>> people's reactions to america's laws. and that's what president trump is doing. he is. >> making sure that. >> we're not picking. >> and. >> choosing winners and losers. >> your thoughts, congressman? >> first, i want to know where julie's cowboy hat is. second, i think, i mean, where is it? second, i think with the using fentanyl is the issue is ridiculous. when you talk about 40% of trade, this really is president trump picking a fight for really no reason. but here's what i find interesting. if you saw in that list are two allies got hit a lot harder than our enemy. and that that tells me something, right? when you're talking about elon musk and you're talking about doge, which is really just a self-enrichment scheme. when i'm looking at the tariffs and how the republicans are spinning it like kristi noem, which was just gibberish, it reminds me that they cannot cross donald trump. the spin actually comes from the fact that they're so deathly afraid of what happens to them if they don't support something so ludicrous as these tariffs. and here's here's what i fear. and julie, here's here's my big fear

is that trump breaks it. and then he says he needs a third term to fix it. we already had i think was it rep ogles i'm trying to remember the exact name. he said they are in the third term. they need a constitutional amendment. so what you're seeing right here, i think, is a setup not only for picking winners and losers again with these tariffs, but i think it's almost a set up to where we're actually restructuring who we deem as the enemy and who we deem as our friend. and i think that's very dangerous, especially again, i know it goes back to elon musk and i hate to pound on it, but these tariffs really bothered me based on how they structured the tariffs and that china seemed to get the sweeter deal out of this rather than mexico and canada, which are our allies. >> and i was going to say just to pick up on congressman's point. you know, there are other there are other models in which you can see donald trump staying on beyond his two terms. it's not just i mean, he can, you know, you can have jd vance running with donald trump jr. and, you know, donald trump being on the outskirts the way that elon musk is right now, but kind of being a shadow prime

minister. >> or, you know. >> who. >> did that shadow president. >> vladimir putin exactly with medvedev. so look, denver, my cowboy hat is in suburban new jersey where i grew up. they didn't hand those out, but i'm sure i can get one in middlesex county in new jersey where i grew up. but look, the problem, the problem is. that you have, as you say, an unelected billionaire who has who has a factory in shanghai, which he doesn't want to jeopardize. right. if you notice, he's really been sucking up to the chinese because guess who's coming for him. the chinese are coming with their electric cars in ways that are probably going to make sure that tesla goes nowhere in the next decade or two. and that's where elon musk's money's tied up. but the larger problem is that, again, we were promised. we were promised on that meet the press episode after the election that prices are going to come. way down, grocery stores are going to come way down. you know, one of the biggest condiments that we eat in this country is guacamole. enjoy those avocados. because guess where 90% of them come from? mexico. and justin trudeau, god bless him. i mean, listen. >> he's speaking tougher than most democrats. >> he's justin trudeau is somebody we should take a lesson from. and by the way, we should take a lesson from those usaid

aid workers who refused to stop providing care to dying children in somalia. i mean, when you have people like that standing up to donald trump in somalia, and yet our own leaders in the democratic party won't. what does that say? it's just it's unfathomable to me. >> because we're talking about the tariffs. trump just actually made a few comments about that. let me play that for you and i'll get your thoughts. take a listen. >> give up the. >> united states for many years. >> they don't allow. >> our banks. did you know. that canada does not allow banks to go in? if you think about it, that's pretty amazing. if we have a us bank, they don't allow them to go in. canada has been very tough on oil, on energy. >> they don't allow. >> our farm products in. essentially, they don't allow a lot of things in and we allow everything to come in. it's been a one way street. we subsidize canada by the tune of about $200 billion a year. and for what? what do we get out of it? we don't get anything out of it. i love the people of canada. i

disagree with the leadership of canada. and something's going to happen there. but if they want to play the game, i don't mind. we can play the game all they want. mexico. we've had very good talks with them and this is retaliatory. this is retaliatory to a certain extent. millions of people flowed into our country through mexico and canada, and we're not going to allow that. and by the way, we have among the lowest numbers we've ever. >> all right. so that was donald trump there talking about why he's doing this. and interestingly enough, congressman, i mean, it seems like he's moved beyond the fentanyl talking point. now. it's not about drugs. it's about banks and about retaliating for immigration. i mean, those are his own words that we just played minutes ago. so even when they came out and said this was about drugs, now it's like he's moving the goalpost and saying, no, we're retaliating to mexico and canada about immigration. and because somehow he is now complaining about american banks.

>> so he didn't close the border. so this is retaliatory because he has no ability to close the border himself. i mean, what you just saw, i think was a combination. >> of. >> gibberish, bad staffing, awful advice, but also him trying to actually spend whatever the hell he's doing into something that maybe makes sense to 5% of the electorate, who maybe turns into the news once a year. i'm just. i'm not even sure how to answer that type of gibberish and stupidity. and i think that's where i'm going to go back to julie really quickly. i'm sorry, julie, when she said about people standing up and saying things that actually mean something, what he just said makes no sense. what are you talking about? explain it right, let us know. and i think right now somebody hears that a democratic leader needs to come out and say, this is absolutely ludicrous. you know, either he's sniffing glue or he's listening to ellen or somebody is telling him something. that's not true. but we have got to stop this type of ridiculousness because we're making enemies of the people to the north and south of us, who provides 40% of our import goods. what the hell are you talking about? that's insane.

and i think that's what i want to see. but i'm not seeing that right. this is just going to go off and somebody's going to have something weak to say tomorrow, and then they're going to forget about it. >> can i can i add one thing to something denver said. and i want to say this to all of our canadian friends. i was in washington on nine over 11, and i remember that day very, very well when the pentagon, a plane flew into the pentagon. and i have to say that you stood up for us when we invoked article five of nato. you sent your men and women to die in afghanistan for us as a member of nato. and on behalf of myself as an american, i want to thank you. you do not deserve this. you are our ally. you are our friend. you do not deserve this. and i just want people in canada to understand that this is not how real americans feel about you. we are grateful to you. you are our ally and we thank you. >> and to pick up on that point, congressman, that julie just made about the relationship, the special relationship between canada and america. i saw earlier at the raptors game, canadians booing the american national anthem, which is something that is just unheard

of, something you would not have imagined happening throughout all of the years, that this would now has gotten to this point because of donald trump launching this trade war against our ally. >> yeah. you know, julie, thank you. you know, i deployed ten days after nine over 11. and, you know, i also served with canadians and our security agencies. i don't think people know how intertwined our security apparatus is with the canadians. i just you have to know these things. and there's a, you know, if you've actually worked in government and you have that background and you have that perspective, it allows you to make decisions with nuance and to see things in a bigger light than what donald trump is doing. and elon musk and his 20 somethings that are tearing apart our government, you know, booing our national anthem to canadians. my goodness. i've been talking to a friend of mine who's a former chief of law enforcement in quebec, and i remember and he's calling me like, what is going on in america, right? and i'm going to be flying out there to actually use ai to help with cold cases, right. and murder and child abductions, which

we're trying to do right now across border in the united states and canada. you know what happens with that? what happens to tech transfer, what happens to itar? julie knows all this stuff, right? there's a massive issue with destroying the relationship with canada. it's so big. i really can't really encompass i can't define it. and julie great great great call there. i mean that's that's where i'm at right now with what's going on with canada. and it's just still shocking to the, to the same. >> i was going to say canada, of course, part of the five eyes security, intelligence sharing cooperation between those five english speaking countries around the world. and it's perhaps one of the most important pillars of security around the world. former congressman denver riggleman. julie roginsky, thank you to the both of you. greatly appreciate your thoughts this evening. next up, new details about the deadly plane crash over the potomac plane crash over the potomac river. we'll tell the first time you try bounce, it hits you. your laundry feels way fresher, softer. so you start to wonder. if i put a sheet of bounce on the finance guy, will it make him softer? bounce can't do it all but for better laundry, ♪ put a sheet on it with bounce. ♪

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victims have been identified so far as search and recovery operations continue in the potomac river. officials now say the plan to remove the wreckage will begin tomorrow. meanwhile, investigators are still reviewing flight data analysis for clues as to what exactly went wrong. nbc's aaron gilchrist has the latest. >> eamon, we're getting an idea of what teams will be doing on the water tomorrow. we've learned that the army corps of engineers is coming in. they've already moved some ships and cranes into this area, and the intention is to start lifting the aircraft out of the water monday morning. first, they will focus on the fuselage of the airplane that is in the water here. we understand that that lifting process could take up to three days. that will be the time that they focus on that. and the colonel here tonight who gave a briefing telling us how they plan to do this, said that if during the process of lifting the fuselage out of the water, they do encounter more, more remains. they would stop that work and then focus on recovering those remains first and then return to lifting the

fuselage later in the week. we can expect them to focus their energy on lifting that blackhawk helicopter out of the water as well. we were told today by d.c. fire officials that they have now identified, recovered and identified the remains of 55 of the 67 victims in this air collision. we also understand that there was one d.c. police diver who suffered from hypothermia through the course of the work they've been doing over the last few days. that diver was taken to the hospital. we understand that he is going to be okay. of course, once all of this recovery and salvage work is done, the ntsb will reengage. they'll start to really start to piece together not only the wreckage that they are able to recover here, but also information. they're going to continue to gather facts, gather more information so that they can try to figure out once and for all what caused this crash and what recommendations they can make so that something like this doesn't happen again. >> nbc's aaron gilchrist, thank you so much for that. meanwhile, in philadelphia, investigators

say they are still looking for the black box from the medical jet that crashed into a busy neighborhood friday night, killing all six people on board and at least one person on the ground. the debris hit several blocks along the city, damaging 11 homes and injuring 22 people, with three currently in critical condition. earlier today, during a briefing, the mayor of philadelphia said they were working to combat the sweeping misinformation around the incident. >> we are being. very intentional during this time. >> about making sure that we. >> reinforce the facts. >> because there. >> is so much misinformation about the issue on social media, and we want to make sure that all of those impacted benefit from the same facts that we as the city of philadelphia have. >> coming up, the irony of trump's crackdown on protests while claiming to combat anti-semitism. and next hour, i'll speak with pennsylvania state representative malcolm

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farxiga today. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ (♪♪) to trafficking in anti-semitism. in 2022, he hosted white nationalist and holocaust denier nick fuentes at mar a lago, along with kanye west, who has regularly and continues to make anti-semitic remarks himself. on the campaign trail. back in september, trump told a group of jewish american voters that jews would bear a lot of the blame if he lost. and of course, when white nationalists marched in charlottesville during his first term carrying tiki torches and chanting jews will not replace us, he stated that there were very fine people on both sides of that protest, and that's just to name a few. so it seemed notable that he signed an executive order this week that claims to take forceful and unprecedented steps to combat anti-semitism in this country.

perhaps he's changed his ways. well, actually, when you take a closer look at the executive order, it shows its real aim. cracking down on the pro-palestinian protests that took place on college campuses across the country during israel's onslaught of gaza. the order claims that, quote, pro-hamas aliens and left wing radicals launched a violent campaign on campuses across america after october 7th. in reality, the protesters featured students of all races, religions and backgrounds, including muslims, jews, arabs, and many others and their allies, correctly sounding the alarm on what many say is a genocide in gaza. more people should have listened to them. now the trump administration wants to remove some of them from the country. the order calls to deport non-citizen college students and other resident aliens who took part in pro-palestinian protests, a dangerous move that lawyers and civil rights groups say is a serious attack on students free speech rights. but that wasn't the only threat to

college students and speech rights on campuses this week. the harvard crimson reported that harvard's medical school canceled a guest lecture by tufts professor barry levy, who studies the public health sector of war, along with a panel of panelists from gaza who are receiving care in boston. harvard medical school's reasoning some feared the panel would be too one sided and divisive, one sided, that doctors and hospitals in the boston area that are caring for these palestinian patients from gaza should be commended for their work, and it's a loss for medical students to lose out on learning from them. from this optional panel. and taken together, the threats to free speech, students rights and safety, and an expression of support or sympathy for the plight of palestinians will continue to be under threat. and it's not just in america. a recent report highlighted in time tracked the health of civic freedoms around the world and identified big crackdowns on

palestinian solidarity protests in every kind of society, from democracies to more repressive regimes. but one person who cheered on trump's executive order targeting pro-palestinian protesters was israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, thanking trump for standing up for truth and justice. remember that last year, netanyahu smeared american college students and campuses by comparing their protests to nazi germany and called for a harsher crackdown. on tuesday, netanyahu will be the first foreign leader to visit trump's new white house. this will be netanyahu's second visit to washington since the international criminal court issued an arrest warrant for his alleged war crimes. we're going to discuss this visit and trump's middle east policy and personnel when we come back. (vo 1) about 1 in 5 people with fatty liver disease have nash which can lead to cirrhosis. (man) i thought i had fatty liver disease but it's actually nash and it's scarring my liver. ♪ rezdiffra ♪ (vo 1) rezdiffra is the first and only treatment for nash

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minister benjamin netanyahu will be the first head of state to visit president trump's new white house for a quick refresher on trump's relationship with israel in his first term. this was how a new york times headline summed it up in 2020 for netanyahu and israel. trump's gifts kept on coming, but there was a more blunt explanation of trump's policies towards israel, and it came from trump himself. on the campaign trail in 2024. speaking at the israeli-american council in september, he listed all the things he delivered for israel the abraham accords, tearing up the iran deal, recognizing israel's illegal annexation of the golan heights, moving the embassy to jerusalem, among other things. he then cited two of his top political donors, israeli-american miriam adelson and her late husband, sheldon. take a look. >> you know, miriam and sheldon would come into the white house, probably almost more than anybody outside of people that work there. and they were always after. and as soon as i'd give them something, always for

israel, as soon as i'd give them something, they'd want something else. i'd say, give me a couple of weeks, will you, please? >> and this was the cover of new york magazine last spring during the campaign featuring trump putting the medal of freedom around his megadonor, miriam adelson's neck and posing the question, what is adelson expect from trump in return for helping him get reelected? and now trump and his middle east envoy, steve witkoff, are taking credit for pushing the ceasefire and hostage deal across the finish line, a deal that netanyahu played a major part in preventing over the course of the last 15 months. joining me now to discuss this is john hoffman, research fellow at the cato institute, whose latest piece in time magazine is the hopeful sounding how trump can be a middle east peacemaker. so let's dive right into this piece, john, and the argument that you make, which is now is the time for trump to prove he is a deal maker and a peacemaker in the middle east. give me your thoughts. why? what do you make of trump pushing for this ceasefire now? and why is this the moment for him to perhaps pressure netanyahu?

>> well. >> first, thank you for having. >> me on, ayman. >> and second. >> this is the. time for trump to push for a permanent end. >> to the war. >> and netanyahu's visit comes at a very critical time. it's on the heels of this very fragile ceasefire, which, for reasons i'm sure we'll discuss, could collapse very soon. >> netanyahu wants trump to support. >> a resumption of the. >> war, and is likely going to push this pretty hard during his visit. it already appears that netanyahu and his coalition partners are gearing up to tank the agreement. but the united states, i argue in the. piece that you mentioned, has no interest in supporting a resumption of the war, and trump should stand firm on this point. >> we know that trump has a tendency to undo whatever his predecessors did. we know that he is very fickle, if you will, and attitudes change. but could trump pushing netanyahu to accept a ceasefire in gaza, something biden seemed unable or unwilling to do over the course of 15 months, just be a way of him trying to distinguish

himself from biden? and could it potentially backfire and trump just feel the, you know, pressure, if you will, from israel and its allies and lobbyists in washington that forces him to change course? >> sure. i would say. >> for donald. >> trump, he has actually a very strong personal. incentive to ending this war. >> a resumption. >> of the war would be an albatross around his neck like it was for biden. gaza is biden's legacy now. renewed fighting would suck the oxygen out of washington. d.c. it would detract from more pressing domestic and foreign issues. and regardless of what one thinks of trump's often outlandish agenda, this would detract from his ability to actually see that agenda through. and like you mentioned, you know, joe biden didn't really use any of this leverage that the united states has. but trump, just like biden, just like any us president, has leverage if he's willing to use it, american weapons and military aid have enabled this

war. and like you said, you know, trump. and like i said in the piece, trump fancies himself a deal maker. a peace maker says he wants to measure his success by the wars. we, you know, don't even get into. that's great. now's the time to prove it. now is the time to end us. support for the war in gaza. >> i showed that clip of trump discussing the role of miriam adelson has played in his israel policy during the first term. what is her influence look like this time around? and are there voices in this administration that you're aware of who oppose her hawkish views? i mean, there's growing perhaps just to the outside observers, but there is a growing rift of those who are very hawkish on iran and people who see an opportunity for israel to carry out some strike with american backing on iran. but at the same time, there are those that trump and others have, he has appointed who are fiercely opposed to any more american military entanglements in the region. >> yeah, i think you're. >> exactly right. there is a growing divide. trump is surrounding himself with very different people this time, many

of whom are skeptical of using military force against tehran, like you mentioned, or just overall us entanglements in the middle east. but this administration, i think, is unique. there's an old phrase personnel is policy, but this might not be the case with trump. trump has selected those around him based primarily on loyalty to him. but there are voices now around donald trump that voice these more skeptical viewpoints. and whether or not this wins the day remains to be seen, but it is an encouraging sign. as we look at what has happened over the last couple of weeks, the mechanisms of the cease fire seem to be holding up. but since the start of the cease fire in gaza. israel has ramped up a major offensive in the occupied west bank, especially in jenin. it has shifted its focus. for now, it seems, to the west bank. how does this align with the views of the trump administration and the fact that you're seeing this escalation potentially in violation of the cease fire?

there was an airstrike as well in gaza today on a vehicle in the gaza strip. and that's already putting this very fragile ceasefire even at greater peril. >> yes. so us ending the us ending its support for the war in gaza should not be coupled with equally counterproductive policies such as supporting, you know, a renewed offensive in the west bank. and this is the problem here. netanyahu's coalition, namely, the last remaining very extremist member, finance minister smotrich, has demanded that a west bank counterterrorism operation be included in the list of formal objectives. post october 7th october 7th. so this he wants this added as a now official objective of the israeli government, and smotrich in particular, has threatened to collapse the government if netanyahu does not resume the war after the first 42 day phase. and if he does not take the fight now to the west bank. but again, from from a

perspective of us policy, the united states has no interest in supporting either a resumption of the war in gaza, expanding this to the west bank or regionalizing this conflict in places like lebanon, iraq, syria, yemen or with tehran directly. directly. >> let me ask you about trump's possible relationship with gulf arab states. you know, many in the gulf region were excited that donald trump was reelected. they feel that they can kind of they speak the same language. and, you know, obviously, he has sought to have this peace deal between saudi arabia and israel. the saudis have made clear that the only way they get to that deal is with a palestinian state. give me a sense of how you see trump's relationship with gulf arab states affecting his views and potentially and potentially his willingness to bring israel to the negotiating table and end this conflict once and for all. >> sure. i think. >> the gulf arab states have donald trump's ear, whether for, for good or bad, can be debated,

but i think they do have his ear when it comes to let's look at the iran part first. when it comes to iran, the gulf arab states do not want a massive war against tehran. they're far more concerned about their domestic agendas, like mohammed bin salman and saudi arabia. like you mentioned, he wants to focus on his vision 2030 project, which is lagging pretty badly. and any regional conflagration is going to detract from this pretty significantly when it comes to netanyahu and when it comes to israel and saudi arabia in particular, brokering this mega deal between saudi arabia and israel is at the very forefront of us middle east policy. it was under biden, it is under trump. and i would argue that this deal is equally counterproductive for the united states. this would result in dramatic new commitments in the middle east at a time when the region doesn't really represent a theater of, you know, strategic importance, you know, considerable strategic importance for the united states, with $36 trillion in debt, running $2 trillion a

year, deficits, more commitments to the middle east right at this current moment is not what the united states should be moving towards. >> let me ask you really quickly. and we have about 30s left, but what are you going to be watching for when the when the two leaders meet on tuesday? what are you going to keep an eye out for? >> you know, this. >> is. >> a tricky question. i think i'll really be looking at the rhetoric coming specifically from donald trump. netanyahu wants to push him to support a resumption of the war. if trump truly does fancy himself as a peacemaker and wants his legacy to be defined by something other than just endless war in the middle east, then he should draw a firm line in the sand saying that we support this cease fire, we support a permanent end to the war. and this involves ending u.s. support for the war in gaza. >> all right, john hoffman, we'll see what happens on tuesday and look forward to having more conversations with you on the other side of it. thanks my friend. >> thanks, simon. >> a new hour of ayman starts after a quick break. >> they are trying to shut down

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one of the vice chairs, pennsylvania state representative malcolm kenyatta, is here to talk about the future of the party. plus, congresswoman sara jacobs says americans will be the ones paying for trump's trade war and the real world impact of elon musk trying to dismantle the main u.s. agency for foreign aid. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's do it.