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okay, so. >> we all have our. >> coping mechanisms for this moment or we're developing them at least. and i've kind of settled into wanting to know. more about what's happening and most importantly, what can be done to stop it. and i invite you to join me in this, because the more our eyes are wide open, and the more we stop ourselves from looking away and just talking about just how terrible it is, the better we understand what the levers of power are that can push back on illegal and unconstitutional actions of the trump administration. the more we know, i mean, the more we're prepared to call it out and call on people in power or people aspiring to be in power, to do more, to push harder, to be more creative. because what's happening right now is a hostile takeover of the us government. there's no other way to describe it. it's happening clearly across our justice system, where just a few hours ago, a deadline passed for fbi employees to fill out a questionnaire detailing their involvement in january 6th

cases. in other words, they were asked to fill out basically a loyalty test that comes after an unprecedented purge of the fbi on friday night when the trump administration forced out top fbi career officials, multiple fbi field office leaders and a number of doj prosecutors who worked on january 6th cases. tonight, i'm going to talk to one of the prosecutors who was fired on friday. his name is jake strubing. he was back at the u.s. attorney's office in d.c. this morning, where he was escorted to his office to pick up his things, drop off his computer, his phone and his credentials. this is going to be his first interview since he was fired. he has a lot to say and is going to be at this table with me in just a moment. but of course, as you all know, it's not just law enforcement where there is a hostile government hostile takeover of the government, and it's not a takeover at the hand of trump alone. i mean, this takeover is also happening at the direction of his unelected best friend,

elon musk. his latest target was the united states agency for international development, and that agency is the one that not only leads on humanitarian assistance around the world, but also works to combat corruption and foreign aid programs. it's a big part of what they do. i kind of see how that could make elon musk a bit uncomfortable. so what do you think he did? you may already know. well, he removed two of the top leaders of the organization who wouldn't do his bidding over the weekend. and then overnight last night, employees received an email ordering them not to come into the office. today. they weren't given a reason or any sort of rationale. they were basically just told not to show up. many were even blocked from the system and locked out of their email accounts. we're also seeing something similar happening in the treasury department in the last few days, elon musk and his doge pals have been granted access to the federal payment system that handles paychecks to federal workers, social security checks, tax refunds, and basically incredibly sensitive personal

information about anyone who gets those payments. this takeover is also happening across the office of personnel management, where musk has gained unprecedented access to federal human resources databases that house sensitive personal information about millions of federal employees. and i'm going to talk with the reporter who broke that story today about what else he's learned later in the show. now, i'm going to just be straight with you about all this. i mean, in the face of all of this and much more that's happened in the last two weeks, there's not always been the type of clear, consistent and united response from leading democrats that i believe. and you probably believe the moment requires. yes, there have been some powerful voices out there in the confirmation hearings especially, but overall, it's taken far too long, in my view, for elected officials to respond, to respond boldly. and when they do respond, those responses aren't often specific enough or bold enough, and it just hasn't been super clear all the time to me or to probably all of you, what they are

actually doing to push back on this hostile takeover. and that's a problem. but the good news is we have started to see some signs of life. today, democratic senator brian schatz said he would place a blanket hold on all of trump's state department nominees until his administration's attack on usaid ends. house democratic leader hakeem jeffries announced that democrats will introduce legislation to, quote, prevent unlawful access to that federal payment system that i just mentioned. congressman gerry connolly, the ranking member of the house oversight committee, is asking chairman james comer to invite elon musk to the committee's hearing on right sizing government this wednesday. and congressional democrats held a fiery press conference today outside of the usaid building right here in washington, d.c. >> we are going to fight in every way we can in courts, in public opinion. >> with the. >> bully pulpit in the halls of congress and here at aid itself. >> this is all a. >> smoke screen.

>> a shell game. >> in order to turn this government over to a handful of unelected billionaires and corporate interests, and we are not going to let them do that. >> just like elon musk did not create us aid, he doesn't have the power to destroy it. and who's going to stop him? we are. we're going to stop him. >> okay? that's the fire. that's the life i'm talking about. now, after that press conference, members even tried to get inside the shuttered usaid building. and i'm going to talk to one of those members, senator chris van hollen, in just a few minutes. so we're seeing some signs of life. there needs to be more, but they're trying. that's some encouraging news, some much needed encouraging news. and we're seeing this not just among elected officials or politicians, but among unelected people, people who have spent their careers serving the public and have now found themselves caught in the crosshairs of this hostile takeover, trying to stand up for what's right. at usaid, yes, elon musk pushed the

director of security and his deputy out, but not before they tried to stop musk people from gaining access to restricted spaces at the agency. at the treasury department, a career civil servant was pushed out because he refused to give musk's team access to that federal payment system that they eventually bullied their way into. and at the fbi, acting fbi director brian driscoll refused a justice department order that he assist in the firing of agents involved. in january, six cases, reportedly pushing back so forcefully that some fbi officials feared that he would be dismissed. one fbi fbi agent summarized what happened like this bottom line doj came over and wanted to fire a bunch of j6 agents. driscoll is an absolute stud. he held his ground and told white house proxy doj to f off. it's pretty bold. and look, when you're fighting against the president of the united states and his billionaire sidekick with vengeance, you are fighting an uphill battle to be real. but they're still fighting. they're still standing up for what's right, even if it means putting their own jobs at jeopardy. and

that is important because at the end of the day, what these past weeks have made clear is that this takeover is going to proceed unchecked unless there are efforts to check it. in other words, there's no cavalry coming. you are the cavalry. elected officials, governors, civil servants, all of you sitting at home. you are the cavalry to stop this. and we will be here, right here to talk about what's happening. we're bolder. action and voices are needed. we will call that out. we will keep our eyes open. we won't look away. and we will continue to shine a light on the people standing up for what is right. joining me now is one of those people, jake strubing. he had been an assistant u.s. attorney for the district of columbia since 2023, before he was fired on friday because of his work on january 6th cases. and this is his first time speaking out since his firing. it's great to see you. thank you for being here with me. >> thank you for having me. jen. >> i wanted to just start by asking you. it has probably been a crazy last couple of days. what have the last few days been

like for you? >> well, they've been a whirlwind. >> i had. >> as you mentioned, i have been with the u.s. attorney's. >> office in d.c. >> since september 2023. i had been working on. january 6th cases. >> i've prosecuted. >> a number of defendants. for their role. >> at the. >> riot at the united states capitol on that day. >> when the pardon came down on. >> january 20th, a number of us, including myself, were reassigned to a division within the office to prosecute local violent crimes. >> and so the. >> news on friday. >> came as. >> quite a bit of a surprise. >> although we were. >> also kind of expecting it. we'd been walking on eggshells for the last several weeks. >> you were i think it's such an important point, but you were reassigned to do so. when you were fired on friday, you were working to prosecute crimes in our nation's capital. tell me more about your work and what you were doing. >> sure. >> so i had. >> been prosecuting. >> january 6th cases for the last two years, last year and a half to be exact. i'd been reassigned to prosecute local crimes. crimes here in the district of columbia. and i

think those firings, approximately 12 prosecutors, including myself, were fired. we were ready to even despite all of the chaos going on in the federal government right now, we were ready to keep our heads down and do that work, prosecute local crimes. and what has happened, i think, over the last few days and what happened on friday with the firings is that it damages public safety and, quite frankly, makes the dc community less safe. >> this is the firing on friday, which i've called a massive purge of the fbi, also of a range of prosecutors like yourself, a number of them, as you just noted, as you look, you've been working for the system for a couple of years. as you look at what this is doing to the department of justice and our law enforcement across the country, cities like washington, d.c, what concerns are you the most? >> well, i have a number of concerns. and i think, again, part of what's going on, purging d.o.j. purging the fbi part of that is the goal of that is to create chaos and hysteria. but if we take a step back and try and look objectively at this, as i'm trying to do as a

prosecutor, as an attorney, looking at the evidence, we have a president who has pardoned hundreds of defendants on january 6th who violently assaulted officers. some of those officers were, you know, assaulted within inches of their life. we now have an interim u.s. attorney in the district of columbia who is firing prosecutors, including myself. and now we know that hundreds, if not thousands of fbi agents are on the chopping block. i've worked with a number of those fbi agents, and they're not just january 6th agents. they're they work on terrorism cases. they work on violent crimes. they work on cyber crimes. they work even on child exploitation matters. so we're talking about that, all of that. it's quite frankly, a threat to national security. what we're seeing right now. >> when you say chaos, tell me more about what you think could happen here, because it could be there's a list that's being asked for. it could be some reports suggest three quarters of fbi agents. what what is the concern you have? what could that chaos prompt?

>> it's a very good question. i know a lot of the fbi agents that i've worked with are, quite frankly, stressed at the moment that they may be fired. they're not going to be able to work cases, meritorious cases that are, you know, being investigated right now. and as i mentioned, that's going to make us less safe that that's going to make american citizens less safe. >> one of the questions i've had, and it's only been a couple of days, is what can happen now, right? and what is what what legal steps could you and others who have been fired take? there was today, attorneys representing some of the fired prosecutors sent a letter to the acting deputy attorney general warning that the terminations may violate due process rights. are you part of that group? do you plan to sue as well? >> so i don't want to comment on any potential litigation or pending litigation that that may come about. from all this. i will say just, you know, personally and i don't speak on behalf of any of my colleagues or former colleagues, just myself, but i am looking at all the options that are on the

table. >> including possibly suing yourself, but we're not going to comment on it further. i understand let me ask you just about the how you viewed this and watch this. you mentioned that donald trump pardoned 1500, many of them violent offenders, insurrectionists on his first day in office. he is at the same time allowed for overseen the firing of so many people who prosecuted them. this is work that you and so many others have done, worked on tirelessly for months. what has that been like to watch? >> it's heartbreaking, quite frankly. we've devoted our lives to this the last few years of our lives, and to see it all kind of come crashing down has been very difficult. but we have to remain vigilant even more so than now. now that now that i really think there is, you know, with all these violent criminals who have been pardoned with fbi agents who may be let go with fewer prosecutors on the line, i you know, i think we have to be more vigilant than ever, given the threat.

>> you're here sitting with me today, which is incredibly courageous. are there some of your other fellow individuals who have been fired on friday are also out there speaking publicly? some are. are you concerned for your safety? >> i think that's a very difficult question. it's one that i think about every day. i think on some level i'm concerned for my safety, but at the end of the day, i have to remember that i swore an oath to defend the constitution, to enforce the laws of the united states, and to follow the evidence without fear or favor. and i can say, sitting here today without hesitation, that i fulfilled that oath and my colleagues fulfilled that oath. these january 6th prosecutions were upheld by grand juries, by countless juries across the district, within the district of columbia, by just about every judge on the federal district court here in d.c, and a number of judges on the federal appellate court. so i have no concerns that we did. right. i think more broadly, one of the concerns i have is the independence of doj and the fbi,

and that's something that all americans need to be very concerned about because as i've, you know, tried to make clear, that makes us less safe. and it doesn't protect us from the real criminals. >> thank you so much for being here for all of the service you've already done for our country. i really appreciate it. i appreciate you having the courage to speak out as well. >> thank you again. >> coming up between fire and career doj and fbi officials and dismantling government agencies, it's important to point out much of what the trump administration is doing right now appears to be flat out illegal. preet bharara is the former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. once upon a time, he was also fired by donald trump for political reasons. and he joins me in just 60s. >> light. >> it guides our every waking moment. >> what we. >> do and how we do it. but the amount of light we need can change in an instant. and when

it does, you can control it. three day blinds. find the light for your life. visit three day blinds.com to get started. >> some things are just better at home, like picking out new floors for a limited time. >> step into. >> savings with up to 40% off your entire project. our experts bring the showroom to you so you can see samples right in your space. that's empire's home floor advantage. don't miss your chance to save on select styles fully installed. call or visit empire today.com for your free in-home consultation. >> empire today. >> the start of donald trump's second term has been intentionally chaotic, i would say, but lost in all of this so-called shock and awe politics is the fact that much of what he has done so far appears to be flatly illegal, like the seemingly unilateral decision by

elon musk, an unelected oligarch, to shut down usaid and independent aid agency created by congress. secretary of state marco rubio claims that he's taken control of that agency and that it will be merged with the state department. it's not entirely clear where the authority to do that exactly comes from. trump's purges at the doj. and the fbi also flies directly in the face of established law. even a senior doj official from trump's first term said the firings are clearly illegal. now, trump's allies claim he can fire whomever he wants under article two of the constitution. and even if that were true, it's not trump doing the firings here. it's his acting department heads. and they don't have article two authority. so again, still illegal. but of course this has been the strategy all along. and for donald trump to simply do whatever he wants, basically clear out every check and balance in the system, dare anyone to stop him. that's the goal. just listen to trump's future vice president. outline that plan all the way back in 2021. >> i think. >> that what trump.

>> should do, like if. >> i was giving him one piece. >> of advice. >> fire every single mid-level bureaucrat, every civil. >> servant in the administrative state, replace them with. >> our people. >> because you will get taken to court. and when the courts stop, you stand before the country like andrew jackson did and say the chief justice has made his ruling. now let him enforce it. >> what jd vance is calling for there is for donald trump to completely disregard the legitimacy of the supreme court. but the thing is, there's a63 super majority that trump helped create. he might not even need to. that's the scary part. one of them, preet bharara, is a former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. he also knows a thing or two about being fired by donald trump for politically motivated reasons. and he joins me now. preet, i always like to ask you, you're the actual legal expert, not me. i just kind of outlined there the illegality of the firing of doj career, doj and fbi officials. is there any legal stand, legal leg trump has

to stand on here? >> well. >> it depends on which people you're talking about when you let go. people who are political appointees, like i was. i've never said anything other than donald trump was perfectly within his authority and legal rights to fire me. when you're firing, when you're firing people who are career civil servants in the fbi or in the u.s. attorney's offices around the country, that's a violation of law. but the most important thing that i think you brought out was that quote from jd vanc, that they don't really care about the legality, they don't really care about the fact that they might be tied up in court for a long period of time, whether you're talking about the usaid, we're talking about fbi agents, we're talking about civil servants within the department of justice who are prosecutors. they're sending a message that if you have done anything to cross donald trump, you're out. if you've done anything that in any way offends the sensibilities of donald trump or his supporters, you're out. and there may be lawsuits about, you know, with respect to these things, at the end of the day, as jd vance just said, as

you showed a minute ago, you get to say, this is wrong. if you're the if you're the trump administration. but at the moment you've made your point. and i think the point is what they want to make. >> the point. let me ask you about the lawsuits, because this is one of the things that i think people who feel outraged as i do, and i think you do about this are rooting for, i guess, is that some of these officials and fbi officials who were illegally fired could file lawsuits, but that could take months, years. how long would this process take? and then what? they're out of a job that whole time. what would the process look like? >> yeah. >> depending on the circumstances, probably the unless you get a temporary injunction or a temporary restraining order or a preliminary injunction, they will be out of a job. and then who's going to care? years on, from a messaging standpoint, from the trump administration's

perspective, that they lose the case in the end? by the way, some of these issues with respect to the dismantling of an agency like usaid or the firing of a dozen or 16 or 17 or 18 inspectors general, may go all the way up to the supreme court. that's, you know, two years, three years away. the other thing that i think is very important to focus on when you're talking about the firing unlawfully and against norms, most importantly unlawfully of people like fbi agents is win, lose or draw. at the end of the day, in the court of law, you have sent the indelible message to law enforcement that if you have the temerity to investigate in any way anyone who's associated with or related to or connected to donald trump, your livelihood will be stripped away from you, right? and in any administration, there might be people, whether they're cabinet officials or others, who are worthy of investigation because they're engaging in waste, fraud or abuse. think about the

chilling effect on agents in the fbi and elsewhere. knowing what happened this week and in the coming weeks, that's the most frightening and chilling thing i think of all. >> you mentioned, it could take years to go through the courts, and maybe there isn't a way, but i think we're all trying to discover what are the levers of power that can be used. is there anything congress, if they wanted to do, could do to reinstate or force the administration to reinstate these fbi officials or prevent them from dismantling usaid? >> well, on usaid, that is as far as i can tell, it's a complete breach of the law. you have a government agency, whether you like it or not, whether it needs to be reformed or not is a creature of statute. you can't have a non-governmental entity, whatever you call a doge or otherwise, or an executive order, supplant a statutorily created agency. period. what

would be helpful is if members of congress having the law on their side, given a statute that they themselves passed previously, stood up and said and complained and criticized the moves by the president and his associates and not just people on the democratic side, but people on the republican side, too. so i think there are things they can do as a legal matter. i think there are things that they can do as a legislative matter. i think that there are things that they can do as a rhetorical matter, but you don't see a lot of that, whether we're talking about nominees who a lot of people on the republican side clearly think are unqualified, but they're afraid to say so, or they're afraid to vote that way because they're afraid of the retribution that donald trump has made clear they can, that he can bring to bear not just on his adversaries, but also allies in his party if they don't go his way. >> there are votes on rfk jr and tulsi gabbard. tomorrow we're going to really see a test of that. preet bharara, thank you,

as always, for joining me and helping us understand all of these legal issues. appreciate it. and coming up, democrats are blocked from entering usaid headquarters today. i mentioned that earlier after protesting elon musk and donald trump's assault on that agency. senator chris van hollen led that protest and joins me after a very quick break. >> oh, and i need these. items printed with our logo by friday. certainly. >> are you for imprint certain? >> well, we are for imprint. certainty matters. >> like the certainty of finding the perfect promo. >> gear for. >> gifting at for imprint exclusive items and quality brands to wow your clients, your customers and your team delivered on time. go to for imprint.com and find some. wow! >> now for imprint for certain. >> are you tired. >> of that. >> old worn out bath or shower? >> now you can. >> have a new one installed in just one day with a new limited time offer from jacuzzi bath remodel. we're waiving all

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the way i approach work post fatherhood, has really trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. >> 1-800-403-7539. that's one (800) 403-7539. >> as we've been talking about, there's been a little bit of hand-wringing over the democratic response to trump's

agenda, and that concern is extended at times to elected officials as well. i mean, there's some question as to whether the party at times has been too restrained in the face of trump's aggressive and likely illegal ransacking of the federal government. but it's only been two weeks, and i will say we got an encouraging sign today in the wake of donald trump's forced closure of usaid. a handful of democratic lawmakers held an impromptu press conference outside the agency's headquarters, blasting the president and elon musk for undermining national security and infringing on the authority of congress. among other things. they said shutting the agency down is a corrupt abuse of power that represents a clear and present danger for the future of our country. here's maryland's democratic senator, chris van hollen. >> this has. >> nothing to. >> do with making. >> the. >> us government more efficient, and everything. >> to do with. aiding and abetting. >> our adversaries. around the. >> world. trying to shut down. >> the agency for international.

development by executive order. >> is plain illegal. >> it is. >> illegal. >> and joining me now is democratic senator chris van hollen of maryland. you just saw him from the press conference earlier today. senator, it's great to see you. and today, i would say it felt like an aggressive response to trump's actions, which many people in your state and across the country are outraged about. so tell me a little bit about how you and your colleagues decided to go to usaid. hold the press conference today. >> well, it's good to. >> be. with you. >> and i want to acknowledge my house colleague, congressman don beyer, and the others that you saw there. you know, all this weekend, i've been on the phone with lawyers and others to fight back and organize our legal and political efforts to fight back against these illegal actions at aid and elsewhere, which, as we said, really are just a gift to our adversaries, china, russia and others. and so we decided

enough was enough. we're going to head down to aid and protest, but also ask to talk to aid employees. i've been on the phone with aid employees over the weekend. they're understandably incredibly anxious, given the fact that the richest man in the world, elon musk, has been given the keys to the us government by donald trump. so we want to be there to show solidarity, but make it very clear we will use all our powers and our voices and the courts to fight back. >> and what does that mean just for people watching at home who are like, how can this be happening? what does that mean in practical terms? what can you do to stop this from happening? >> well, the most immediate thing we can do is through the courts. we have a situation where our republican colleagues, despite our conversations with them, are just in lockstep with

donald trump and elon musk. so actually trying to pass something out of a congress that's controlled by the republicans right now isn't going to work. we will use all our powers to try to slow things down. but the courts are a place where we can be successful. as we were speaking today in d.c, we had the district court and the district of columbia issue a temporary restraining order against the earlier trump illegal action of cutting off federal funds to our community priorities, and the ags in rhode island that filed a case got a tro. so stopping those actions, we are going to do that on behalf of federal employees and also to stop this other action. they're taking so-called schedule f, which is an attempt to convert about 60,000 merit based civil servants into political crony positions. so that is our first line of defense. and that's why i've been on the phone all weekend

with our lawyers, as we also organize the political front. >> you're obviously a senator from maryland. a lot of your constituents are government employees, work in the district, have worked in a lot of these agencies, maybe still do. there has been concerning access. i'm going to talk about this a little bit later in the show that elon musk and his cronies have been given to the treasury department payment system, to the opm data, people's personal data. what can you do to stop that or halt that? because i know people are concerned, many who are watching about where their personal data, whether it's safe. >> well, you're exactly right. and you had a situation where the highest ranking civil civilian employee at treasury, right. the career civil servant quit because he didn't want to turn the keys to the federal payment system over to elon musk. so first of all, we need to make sure that we support our federal employees who are

refusing to obey illegal orders. right. because part of what, you know, trump and musk want to do is to just scare everybody else into doing their bidding, even if it violates the law. so part of the reason we went there today is to also make it clear to federal employees we will back them up when they refuse to obey these illegal orders. >> let me ask you, you mentioned earlier kind of slowing things down. this is one of the tactics that you mentioned the courts, but also the tools in the senate that you have. and one of your colleagues said he would place a blanket hold on all state department nominees in response to this assault on usaid. is that something that you also support, and is there anything else you have up your sleeve to slow things down? >> well, i do support that. senator schatz and my colleague from hawaii has mentioned that, and we are joining forces in that effort. we're also going to look at other ways that we can,

you know, slow things down in the united states senate. i will say that when it comes to nominations, because they have the majority, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, they can grind their way through them, but we can continue to use our procedural powers to make that, you know, as long and painful as possible, given this cast of characters that they're installing in these critical positions. some of them we are going to keep trying to defeat. i mean, we need for republicans to, you know, cross the aisle when it comes to some of these that you've been talking about. but on others, we can just make sure that we use our powers to, again, no more business as usual. >> senator chris van hollen. loved watching the press conference today. thank you for being here and making the time tonight with me. really appreciate it. and coming up, if you're a federal employee, i was just talking to the senator about this. and elon musk and his co-owners just gained access

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management, which is basically the hr department for the entire federal government. you might remember that during the first week of the new administration, opm rolled out a new system to email the entire federal government from a single email address. the next week, that system was used to send an email to roughly 2 million federal workers with an offer to resign. musk sent a similar email with the same exact subject line to his email to his employees shortly shortly after taking over twitter. now, according to new reporting from investigative reporter judd legum and his new substack, musk watch love the name musk connected political hires installed at opm have received, quote, unprecedented access to federal human resources databases containing sensitive personal information for millions of federal employees. this database contains social security numbers, dates of birth, salaries, home addresses, and job descriptions of all civil government workers, along with any disciplinary action that that they have faced. one opm

staffer said, quote, they're looking through all the position descriptions to remove folks usa jobs. the federal government's official hiring site was another system that musk associates were given access to. the database stores personal information provided by private individuals who have just applied for federal jobs, regardless of whether the applicants went on to work for the government. it's still all in there. a former opm director put it this way what musk doing what musk is doing will put so many government employees at risk. it's not at all what the office is intended for. i just can't believe what i'm seeing. me neither. one current opm staffer added this they have access to the code itself, which means they can make updates to anything that they want. there are also potential security risks. i mean, another opm staffer said china and russia are literally trying to hack us every day. and we just gave all this data over to somebody that's not been properly vetted. and if that doesn't sound concerning enough, the reporting goes on to detail that, quote, a new server being

used to control these databases has been placed in a conference room that musk's team is using as their command center. a staffer described the server as a piece of commercial hardware they believe was not obtained through the proper federal procurement process. let's just say i have a lot of questions. i'm sure you do, too. lucky for us, jed judd is standing by here in studio and he joins me next. >> let's get real. >> leaks from incontinence happen. >> but that. >> doesn't mean that you have to be uncomfortable or embarrassed. forget diapers and paper garments. >> they're embarrassing. >> expensive, and never feel right. wherever underwear is the fashionable and reliable solution for incontinence. wherever is real underwear, they are comfortable and provide all the protection you need. just wear them like regular underwear and toss them in the washer. the secret is wherever's triple woven blend that traps liquid and creates a protective barrier against wetness and leakage wherever gives you the freedom to be as active as you like.

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how do you cashback? chase, make more of what's yours. (♪♪) dot com was already taken. get 20% off and free shipping on your first order@nuts.com. >> so as i just walked you through. elon musk and his associates reportedly have new access to sensitive federal employee information. as judd legum reports today, quote, the musk team running the office of personnel management has the ability to extract information from databases that store medical histories, personally identifiable information, workplace evaluations, and other private data. what could possibly go wrong? it is all quite alarming. joining me now, judd is here with me now. he helped break that story. he's the author of the independent

newsletter popular information and the new substack muskwatch, which is quite a topical topic these days. so let me just start. i just outlined before we took a break, kind of some of your reporting and this really excellent piece today. anything i missed, anything people watching now should know or understand about what musk has access to right now. >> yeah. one of. >> the things. >> that the sources. >> at opm, who. we spoke to write. this story we're talking about. >> is this information. >> is already being used to target people. >> the purge of. >> all of the so-called die staffers. >> it was. >> done by looking. >> at. >> the job descriptions that are in this database. and what what is concerning is, yeah. >> i don't want to i just want to help make sure i understand this. people watching this. so they looked at this sensitive personnel information and basically said that was a die hire. we're going to get rid of them, that sort of thing. or how did they use it? >> this person is working on

what they consider issues. and it's not even necessarily that that's in their job title. you saw a report in the department of education. they're letting go of people who attended a training that had to do with die. that was actually proposed by betsy devos, who was the education secretary in the first term. but it's these databases that they are pulling from to x to execute this purge. and then when you start thinking about, well, now they have access to medical information, potentially disciplinary information, all sorts of sensitive internal hr information that could then be used to do different kinds of purges down the line. so i think that's really the concern within opm about all of this data, kind of just free reign from musk's associates over this data. >> i mean, i can't emphasize enough i filled out these forms, how detailed these personnel forms are. it's so much information about people's

lives. it sounds like you've outlined why you what you think they want to do with it. what do these officials think they want to do next with it? they've clearly been focused on what they see and define as d as addressing die, which is outrageous. but let's put this over here. what else do they want to do with it next? >> well, i don't i don't think anyone really knows for sure because essentially a lot of the career staff has now been blocked out of these databases. so they've been given musk associates, including, you know, a couple who have just graduated from high school, people who do not have much experience in anything, much less the government, have been granted really carte blanche access down to the source code of these databases can do basically anything they want. the career staff has been locked out, but i think that there's concern inside the organization that this could all be pooled together. there could be the use of ai or other tools to identify potentially people who, you know, are not in line with the

ideology of this administration. and really to do this hollowing out of the federal government that we're already seeing. >> from these officials. you're talking to an opm. i mean, what are they hoping are they hoping congress does something or are they hoping the courts do something? what are they hoping can happen to stop this? >> they believe that the law is being violated at opm, specifically that there are laws. these are technical people who are working on these databases, and they know that there are laws when they're setting up hardware, when they're setting up applications for these databases where it has to go through a vetting process so that you make sure that you're not creating security vulnerabilities, not just sort of the internal vulnerabilities of there's somebody who's getting access to this data within the government who really doesn't need to. but also, they were talking to me about how there are foreign adversaries on

a daily basis who are seeking the information in these databases for espionage purposes, whatever, you know, purposes that foreign governments do and that you're creating more and more vulnerabilities by essentially having huge, essentially all these single points of vulnerability when each of these individual associates of elon musk is getting this extraordinary access that essentially nobody had previously. >> judge, few people are following this and covering elon musk as closely as you. thank you so much for being here for writing this piece today, which is fascinating. i read it a couple times. i hope you'll come back and talk with us more, as we all try to understand the impacts of his role in the government. >> well, thanks so much for having me. >> thank you. i've got one more >> thank you. i've got one more thing (auctioneer) let's start the bidding at 5 million dollars. thank you, sir. (man) these people of privilege... hoarding the financial advantages for far too long. (auctioneer) 7.5 at the back. (man) look at them — unaware that robinhood gold members

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a powerful role. did anything about how he wielded his power surprise you? do you not need a katrina level type of response that is rebuilding to make sure it won't happen again? you've obviously made a decision to resign. are there any lessons that can be learned as you're talking to members of your congregation, what do you tell them about how to stand up for their own moral beliefs, but still find grace in this moment? when i was the spokesperson for the state department, there was a reporter by the name of matt lee. he's still there from the associated press, and he would grill me every single day. in fact, he was so tough on me that the state run media in russia actually turned him into kind of a folk hero. to be clear, he wasn't pushing russian talking points. not at all. the russians just liked watching this american reporter be tough and combative. and at some point i actually asked matt lee about this, and his response really stuck with me. he said, whether

the policy is good or not, and sometimes it really wasn't. he didn't like it either. it's whether it's smart or not. the u.s. government has multiple briefings a day, gives journalists opportunities to ask hard questions, he said. the russians may applaud me for being tough on you, but they have none of that. it's not what they do. and that's something i thought about a lot when i was at the white house, because it was a reminder that even when things were combative and they were sometimes even when reporters kept pushing and kept questioning, that was actually a sign of the relationship working. when i did become white house press secretary, there were people who wondered why we allowed fox news to remain in the white house briefing room and why i called on them every single day. but one of the reasons is because in a functioning democracy, it's important to talk to all different kinds of media. engagement is the point. willingness to disagree and to push back is the point. so yes, i called on peter doocy basically every day. and yes, sometimes i had a little fun with him, too. sometimes he got me. and with that in mind, i just want to draw your attention to something you might have

missed in what has been an absolute avalanche of news. on friday, the pentagon effectively removed several major news organizations from their office spaces in favor of much friendlier outlets. the pentagon post spokesperson said the very conservative new york post would be would replace the new york times, the very conservative cable channel. one america news would be swapped in for nbc. the very conservative breitbart news would serve as a radio outlet instead of npr and the huffpost, which doesn't even have a pentagon correspondent, would switch in for politico. that pentagon spokesperson said the goal of the changes is to, quote, broaden access to the limited space of the correspondents corridor to outlets that have not previously enjoyed the privilege. but i think it's pretty clear what's happening here. and just remember, this should not be seen as only a punishment of news organizations who ask hard questions. it is that this should be seen as a punishment of the american people. the hard questions and the combativeness are a service to you, so they might not like it. they might do things to try and stop it. but that's even more of a reason to

keep going and to keep pushing. so that's what we're going to do. that does it for me tonight. the rachel maddow show starts right now. hey, rachel. hey, jen. >> thank you, my friend. i've got something right along those same lines tonight. can't wait to watch. that story. >> all right. absolutely. >> my friend, and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. happy to have you here. i'm also very relieved to not be leading the show tonight with news of yet another plane crash on the second week of this presidency. the new president, of course, caused mass confusion among everyone who works for the federal government. mass confusion, mass anxiety. when he sent all federal employees a weirdly worded spam like email message telling them all to resign. that went out from the white house on wednesday morning to everyone in the government, including, say, air traffic controllers and faa staff and people who work for the national transportation safety board, that went out wednesday morning.