usaid. however, they're pointing to and speaker johnson and the white house has kind of put out a list of some of these cultural engagements that usaid has funded over the years that they basically think are superfluous. >> well, look, you can look through any federal budget and find things that don't exactly make sense. and i don't think any lawmaker on either side is arguing against finding those things. but the larger point is the one that you're making, which is that there are big national security implications to getting rid of an agency like this. liz landers, thank you. that was way too early for this wednesday morning. morning joe starts right now. >> so by the united states, with its stability and strength, owning it, especially the strength that we're developing and developed over the last fairly short period of time, i would say, really, since the election, i think we'll be a great keeper of something that is very, very strong, very powerful and very, very good for the area, not just for israel, for the entire middle east, very

important. >> okay, that. >> was president trump yesterday after suggesting the united states should take control of gaza and. permanently displace palestinians. we'll have more of those comments. as well. as the. bipartisan backlash. >> to the. >> president's proposal. also ahead. >> speaker mike. >> johnson was asked flat. >> out if the president. >> has. >> the authority. >> to shut down. >> government agencies. >> without approval from congress. we'll play. for you. his careful response. >> meanwhile. democrats continue. >> to. >> protest elon musk's seemingly. >> unchecked power within the trump administration. but republicans. >> insist musk isn't in charge. >> they are. plus, the cia. >> is now offering. federal buyouts as the trump administration attempts to gut the government workforce. it comes as the fbi agents are suing the justice department, accusing the trump administration of politically motivated retribution. will go through all of that. we'll also

bring you the latest from capitol hill, following key votes yesterday on two of the president's most controversial cabinet nominees. good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is wednesday, february 5th. with us, we have the co-host of the fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics. he has a piece out right now on elon musk. we'll get to that. and the host of way too early, ali vitali, joins us. we're going to start this morning with president trump's brazen proposal for gaza. yesterday, today, the president announced the united states should seek control of the enclave and that the nearly 2 million palestinians living there should relocate to egypt or jordan, a move both countries have vehemently opposed. the president made the comment during a joint press conference with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the two leaders met at the white house yesterday, and it comes as

negotiators are discussing the next phase of the israel-hamas ceasefire agreement, which is supposed to include more humanitarian aid and reconstruction supplies for the people of gaza. >> we should go to other countries of interest with humanitarian hearts, and there are many of them that want to do this and build various domains that will ultimately be occupied by the 1.8 million palestinians living in gaza, ending the death and destruction and, frankly, bad luck. this can be paid for by neighboring countries of great wealth. it could be one, two, three, four, five, seven, eight, 12. it could be numerous sites, or it could be one large site. but the people will be able to live in comfort and peace. the u.s. will take over the gaza strip, and we will do a job with it, too. we'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous

unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site. level the site and get rid of the destroyed buildings. level it out. create an economic development that will supply unlimited numbers of jobs and housing for the people of the area. i envision a world, people living there, the world's people. i think you'll make that into an international, unbelievable place. i think the potential in the gaza strip is unbelievable, and i think the entire world, representatives from all over the world will be there and they'll and they'll live there. palestinians also palestinians will live there. many people will live there. we have an opportunity to do something that could be phenomenal. and i don't want to be cute. i don't want to be a wise guy. but the riviera of the middle east, this could be something that could be so bad. this could be so magnificent.

>> trump's comments have sent shockwaves throughout the region and here at home in saudi arabia, the country's foreign affairs ministry said its stance on the establishment of a palestinian state remains a firm, unwavering position. hamas released a statement rejecting trump's plans, calling his comments a recipe for creating chaos and tension in the region. meanwhile, nbc news caught up with several senators yesterday to ask them about what the president said. >> the first. >> i. heard of it, i. >> said. >> it seems. >> like there's a. >> few kinks. >> in. >> that slinky. we'll see what he meant. >> what do you mean. >> by kissing that slink? >> well, it's i. >> don't know if you know about. >> a slinky, but if it kinks, you can't use it anymore. i don't know how it would play out if what he said or what you all have said. i haven't seen the firsthand account, but. >> obviously it's not going to happen. >> i think. >> that'd. >> be a tough place to be assigned. if you're an american soldier. so i you know, we'll

see what the arab world says. but, you know, that'd be problematic at many, many levels. >> i'm speechless. >> that's insane. i can't think of a place. >> on earth that would welcome. >> american troops. >> less, and. >> where any positive outcome is less likely. and why on. earth we would abandon decades of well-established. >> humanitarian programs. >> around the world, and now launch. >> into one of the world's greatest humanitarian challenges. >> i mean. >> hey, we. don't yes, we. >> the united states, should not take anybody's home. number. >> two, us. >> nation building in the. >> middle east. >> if you haven't learned anything. from 2001. >> to. >> 2025, you haven't been paying attention. >> we are. >> very bad. >> at that. >> all right. some bipartisan condemnation there. jonathan lemire, your latest reporting from the atlantic, references senator graham's response. it's

entitled trump's wild plan for gaza. and you write in part this any direct u.s. intervention in gaza would fly in the face of trump's long standing desire to disengage from foreign entanglements. he began negotiations to withdraw u.s. forces from afghanistan, wants to slash aid to ukraine, and has threatened to abandon military positions in korea, europe and syria. and it may face pushback at home from some usually reliable allies. i think that would be an interesting proposal, senator lindsey graham told reporters on capitol hill after trump spoke. we'll see what our arab friends say about that. i think most south carolinians would probably not be excited about sending americans to take over gaza. it might be problematic. and jonathan lamir, thom tillis, i think, had the quote of the day a few kinks in the slinky. >> yeah. >> that's. a new one. >> i'm not aware. >> of that particular. >> phrase, but it does. >> but it works. >> we'll run with. >> it this morning.

>> but yeah, it is. >> it is. >> a breathtakingly. >> audacious proposal here from. >> donald trump. >> one that. >> was. >> indeed met with a lot of pushback immediately. >> first. as noted. this flies in the face of how trump. views foreign policy. >> he wants to. >> pull back. >> u.s. engagement. >> and yesterday he was asked repeatedly whether or not. >> u.s. troops would. >> be. >> sent to gaza. >> to help secure it. >> while it's being rebuilt. he did not rule that out. this, of. >> course, is. >> a. >> conflict that has been in gaza. >> there's decades in the making, a contested land since israel's. >> creation in 1948. >> this is the first time a u.s. president. >> has. >> suggested something. >> like this, with. >> the u.s. being. >> an occupying. >> force. >> we have seen that saudi arabia, as you just said already. >> which is. seemingly close to normalizing. >> relations with israel, has. >> already said. >> we're not going to do this. and that is just a preview of what. >> is. >> expected to be. >> the reaction from throughout the arab. >> world, who want. to see. the palestinians. >> get their own state, who. >> don't want to be taking. palestinian refugees.

>> into their own country, who don't want to hand. israel. potentially, that territory. it's certainly a significant win. for prime minister netanyahu. >> were this to happen. >> the right wing elements in. his his coalition want to move. >> in both on. gaza and. >> of course, the west bank. and we. also this is donald trump, the white house aide told me. last night. >> who does feel emboldened with. >> with a swagger. >> if you will, in the second term, believing that. >> he can get a big. deal done. few would be. >> bigger than this, even though part. >> of this might even be a. >> real estate transaction, something that he has considered. >> in the past. >> talking about. gaza's beachfront property. even the riviera. >> of the middle east. >> for much, much more on this, let's bring. >> in president emeritus of the council. >> on foreign relations, richard haass. >> he is author of the weekly. >> newsletter home and away, which is, of course, available on. >> substack, as. >> well as. >> retired cia officer marc polymeropoulos. he is an nbc news security and intelligence analyst. richard, let's start with you. i mean, your reaction.

>> it is. >> it is hard to. >> know at a. >> time whether how seriously. >> to take this. >> is this. >> something is donald trump. actually suggesting sending military troops to the middle east. to gaza. or is this the beginning of some sort of negotiation, an extreme position, if you will, perhaps to apply pressure on the region and allows him to maybe dial it back a little bit to get something. >> done? >> but even. >> that seems so far fetched. >> it seems far fetched. you know, we're all used to the idea of an opening bid. and so one of my first reactions was to try to play this out. where could this lead? >> you've got. >> for example, the king. >> of jordan showing up in washington in a few days. one of the dangers is that donald trump actually tries to follow this up puts enormous pressure on countries. >> like jordan, which. >> are already. >> vulnerable. >> threatens to remove what? the $1.7 billion in aid. so i worry that this. >> is a nonstarter. >> let me just. >> say. >> that with the palestinians, jonathan, let's just posit that. >> this is. >> going to be unacceptable to the palestinians. the question

is. >> is there. >> follow up? does this cause crises. >> in jordan? >> does this cause crises in egypt? >> does this encourage some of the worst elements in israel? >> you know, it's. >> one thing to think big about the middle east. when i thought the trump administration might think big about the middle east, i assumed it was to maybe press bibi to go in the direction of some type of a palestinian state, which, among other things, would bring the saudis on board and so forth. this is thinking big, big, but in a way that's totally at odds with the history and political realities of the region. so it makes. >> me think, one. >> what you mentioned, the swagger. >> there's a. >> grandiosity to this, as. >> though history. >> doesn't matter. i think there's a little bit of that here that in a sense, the donald trump is not is not bounded by history. and also it raises fundamental questions. and you're closer to it than i am, as is ali about the policy process. you could not have a rigorous policy process filled with experts on the middle east. and come up with this proposal. there is no way you could get from there to. >> where we now are.

>> and mickey, as we. >> see these. >> images here. >> of the. >> devastation in gaza. >> 15 months of conflict. >> but this is still. >> home to 2.2. >> million people. >> and donald trump is talking about displacement on just a staggering scale. >> i've heard a lot of different words about this, but the ones that stand out to me is this is impossible. this will never happen. maybe he doesn't mean it. and i would like to try and put a pause on that thinking to an extent, because i think we've learned by now and a lot of what we talked about here on morning joe during the campaign is donald trump does mean it. he means it. this is a man who said during the campaign he would pardon january 6th rioters, and he has done so. this is a man who said that he would be your retribution and threatened retribution to people who worked on cases against him. that is happening right now in the fbi. let's stop surmising as to

whether or not he means it, because he means it. okay, so marc polymeropoulos, my question to you is what will the promotion of this idea do to the delicate state of affairs in the region? >> right, mika. >> and so. >> i think every. cia station chief in the middle east. >> woke up this morning with a migraine. >> headache because there's a potential for a generational counterterrorism nightmare here. you have to look at the words that donald trump used yesterday, quote, take over gaza, own gaza. these are. >> triggering mechanisms. >> for islamic. >> extremist groups. remember osama. bin laden's. >> biggest beef with the united states decades ago was the us troop presence in saudi arabia, al qaeda in iraq, same thing, the insurgency based on us troops in iraq. so this kind of language only is going to galvanize. groups that want to kill americans. and if i was in the cia and is still in the cia and the counterterrorism community, i'd be monitoring the islamic extremist forums, because this is just a

tremendous own goal. and i worry that even if these are just words, as richard said, perhaps part of some strange negotiating gambit, americans might be less safe now, and i can't imagine anybody in the cia or the state department who would have advocated this approach. >> to talk about the cease fire agreement in place. i mean, there are hostages still due to come home. we are watching these reunions. they're incredibly emotional. i know president trump is very much into seeing these reunions and positive things like that happening, hoping to take credit for them and things like that. what could these comments and this intention, due to the cease fire agreement that's in place right now? >> well, sure, mika, because there's a delicate balance that's going on right now and we're trying to get through this phase one, perhaps to get to phase two. but there are still hostages who need to be released. and so if you're hamas right now and you hear these comments, you know, how do you even if there is some, you know,

distrust in the past, but how do you see the us as an interlocutor that you can agree with when they're saying all of the palestinians have to be removed from the gaza strip with all of this kind of fanciful language. so, you know, even this kind of strange rhetoric from trump could, could really alter a very delicate negotiating pattern right now, which has seen hostages released. more are supposed to come this weekend. we'll see. >> all right, nbc news, security and intelligence analyst marc polymeropoulos, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. let's go live to tel aviv, israel. nbc news correspondent yasmin vossoughian is standing by there. yasmin, what's the reaction that you're hearing so far? >> i think, mika, it's important to be frank. >> about the situation here in the middle east, and it. feels as if president. >> trump has. >> literally dropped. >> a nuclear bomb on the middle east. lamiere is right in that. >> donald trump campaigned on getting the united states out.

>> of foreign wars. >> it feels as if, after yesterday evening. standing aside prime minister bibi netanyahu. >> that donald. >> trump may very well have gotten the united states. >> into another war. >> this is the type of rhetoric. that will unite, that can feasibly unite. >> the middle east. >> right? we have heard from mbs of saudi arabia. denouncing what donald. trump has said. we have heard, obviously, from islamic militants, from the palestinian authority to islamic jihad to hamas, who have all understandably denounced what. >> donald trump. >> has said. we have heard iran denouncing what donald trump has said, even from egypt. >> and. >> the foreign minister, not necessarily directly addressing, but instead saying we will continue to rebuild gaza. as richard mentioned, we know that the jordanian king will be heading to washington on

february 11th, the president of egypt heading to washington thursday as well. obviously, donald trump wanting to bring key players to try and put this plan into motion. but across the middle east, there is a real deep dissatisfaction and anger with what president trump is proposing. and yet, if you look to the right wing of the israeli government, they in fact, are celebrating this notion of the united states taking over gaza. but it's the israeli citizens that i've spoken to here in tel aviv and the palestinians in gaza, who are a team on the ground, have spoken to as well, who also think this idea is out of the realm of possibility and not something anyone wants for a real, lasting peace. let's take a listen to them, mika, and then we'll talk on the other side. >> we can't leave our homes. >> how we can. >> how we. how you dare! how dare you to say you should leave

your homes? >> we can't, we can't. >> this. this is palestine. and we palestinians are the only ones who have the right to live here and never to leave it. we will never leave our town palestine. for us. this is never changing. >> i mean, there are people live there. there is gazan civilians who lives in gaza. i don't understand. >> the. >> idea of just taking over. >> richard is right. is that it feels as if donald trump is forgetting about history. one of the reasons why hamas came into power in 2006 is because hamas essentially promised infrastructure, right? they promised schooling, they promised food, they promised aid. the person, the people, the organizations, the country that will win the hearts and the minds, for instance, of the palestinians remaining on their land, will be the people that are providing them with the infrastructure, the aid, the food, the water that they desperately need and the infrastructure, for instance, to rebuild. i just want to say one final thing. right. as we were looking to los angeles, the

wildfires that happened there in the palisades, you saw major destruction and people were incredibly upset over losing their personal belongings and their homes. but it was really about the community, right? the churches, the schools, the coffee shops in which so many of them convene. these gazans have walked, marched, driven thousands of miles right back to their homes in north gaza after the cease fire to commune in rubble, because this is their homeland, this is where they want to remain, not because of the structures in which they have lived in mecca, but because of the community. they have been surrounded by the families and the people they know. and that, it seems, is something that is being lost by both the president of the united states, along with prime minister bibi netanyahu. mika. >> nbc's yasmin vossoughian, thank you so much for your coverage live from tel aviv. we appreciate it. and before we go to break, ali vitali, just back on capitol hill, are you getting a sense from your sources, your

contacts there that especially republicans, are they still standing behind this president, especially given the judgment on this issue, this issue, this judgment on this issue is potentially extremely dangerous. >> there are clear ripple effects. yasmin is talking about some of them. i do think that we're now getting a little bit of a clearer sense, too, of what israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu was talking about when he said just a day or so ago, before meeting with trump, that there was going to be conversations about remaking the map. it's a reminder of the long standing and close relationship that netanyahu and trump have enjoyed over the course of these last many years. on capitol hill, we've heard bipartisan condemnation of what we heard from the president there. but it strikes me, lumiere, and i want your take on this, because we did the 2016 campaign together. when tim kaine talks about this being a deranged idea, but then also brings up nation building, harkening back to the wars in afghanistan and iraq. it strikes me that trump speaking so

hawkishly he talks like a hawk, but he doesn't always walk like a hawk, and he has made it a mission to pull troops out of american war zones. he was critical of the iraq war. does this strike you as as seemingly out of step with the way that trump has talked about potential use of u.s. military troops? >> yeah. on that 2016 campaign, he vowed to end the so-called forever wars. >> that he said. >> that he tapped. >> into the real frustration in the u.s. about the everlasting presence in afghanistan and iraq, although we should note that he did say that the u.s. went in, the mistake they made was they didn't take the oil. in this case, it seems like he's trying to take the beachfront property. richard. it also, this comes as a moment, though, where the middle east is a seismic moment already. right? the aftermath of october 7th. and that terror. >> attack has. >> left hamas devastated, gaza in ruins. but israel's counter strike also took out hezbollah and lebanon. we've seen the collapse of syria. we have seen iran at. its weakest moment in

decades. there was an opportunity here for a big move. i'm not sure this was that move. >> i'm not sure. >> this was that move at all. jonathan. it takes iran off. >> the hook. >> and the funniest that. >> we've made ourselves. the issue. >> we had a moment in the middle. >> east where iran was on. >> its heels, as you know, assad was going from syria. opportunities in lebanon. >> first phase of the cease fire between israel. >> and hamas. >> and what are we. >> talking about this morning? plans for the middle east that. >> are nonstarters unsatisfying. >> rejected by palestinians. >> and. >> could cause the destabilization of the throne. in jordan. so that's what we've done. we've changed the conversation in a way that that that doesn't make sense. we've made. >> ourselves the. >> the, the issue. it's not clear to me why. also, one other thing, and i think. >> yasmin was getting at. >> it in. >> israel. >> this will set a precedent. this sets the precedent of what's known as transfer. the answer to the palestinian problem is not something. that gives palestinians a home of their own, but. >> it denies them. >> one first gaza, then the west

bank. this is a radical idea that the israeli right will end with. this is not. a peace process. >> this potentially. >> sets in motion the end of what has been a peace process. >> all right. and again, talking like a war hawk is one way of looking at it. what i heard more was more like a developer of beachfront property with no sense or mention of the war inducing side effects of this. we'll continue to cover this. there's much more still ahead on morning joe, as the trump administration looks to slash the federal workforce. we've learned tens of thousands of government employees are lining up to take a buyout offer. plus, there's a new legal fight between the fbi and the justice department. we're going to dig into the two new lawsuits claiming agents are being targeted for retribution. and what exactly is elon musk doing and why does he have so much power? we'll ask that question.

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government employees have filed a lawsuit to block the plan, calling the buyout offer arbitrary and capricious, saying it violates federal law. they also allege the administration cannot guarantee the plan will be funded, and that it has failed to consider the consequences of mass resignations and how it may affect the government's ability to function. some might say they have considered that. actually, we also learned the cia is now offering those buyouts to some of its workforce. under the offer, federal employees can resign and still receive roughly eight months of pay and benefits. but some cia workers, including those handling high priority tasks, will not be eligible. a spokesperson for the agency says. director john ratcliffe is moving swiftly to ensure the cia workforce is responsive to the administration's national security priorities. meanwhile,

fbi agents have filed two new lawsuits pushing back against the justice department amid growing concerns about a trump administration purge within the bureau. the lawsuits allege agents are being targeted for politically motivated retribution after employees were asked to fill out surveys about their role in various january 6th criminal cases. the agents are calling for a judge to stop the publication of any list of employees who worked on those cases, nbc news has learned. the fbi turned over a list of agents involved in january 6th cases to the justice department, but it includes identification numbers instead of names. let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, who has been reporting on these lawsuits. so, ken, how many agents are suing and what are the next steps? can they can

they keep their jobs in this environment? >> good morning mika. well, that's the big question right now. there's about nine. or so agents suing anonymously in each one of these class action lawsuits. and the second one was also brought by the fbi agents association. but they say they represent a class of as many as 6000 people who were involved with these january 6th cases. and i think one of the really interesting and important things that happened yesterday was more evidence of quiet resistance by the acting fbi leadership, including acting director brian driscoll, who was appointed by the trump administration. you know, they were struggling over in recent days about whether they would even comply with this directive to provide the names to the justice department of all the agents and personnel who worked on january 6th cases. they thought it was inappropriate, but at the end of the day, their office of general counsel told. >> them. >> look, this is a lawful order. we work for the justice department. we have to do it. but at the end of the day, he

did not turn over a list of names. now he turned over employee numbers. and of course, the justice department can match those employee numbers with the payroll that they have at their disposal. but what they did by doing this was ensure that there is no master list of january 6th agents floating around that could be released, because. that is the main allegation in these lawsuits. and the thing they're most concerned about, they can't prevent the justice department from creating lists of employees who worked on particular cases. what they're concerned about is the release of the names. and what they say is, look, this is a retribution purge. it's very obvious, based on the comments that members of the administration have made and that donald trump has made. and they said they're concerned that the real intent here is to release the names of these agents. they're already seeing some of these felons who were pardoned by donald trump, who committed violence on january 6th, posting the names of fbi agents on social media or on the dark web. and they say this is a major security concern. >> but stepping back.

>> i mean, what. hasn't happened yet is any firings beyond the eight people, the eight senior executives that we reported on a couple of days ago. so we're in a bit of a standoff right now. the fbi has managed to push back on what did seem like a plan for mass firings. whether they will ultimately be successful remains to be seen, but it's a. reminder that the fbi is not usaid. the fbi has leverage. donald trump needs the fbi. they're protecting this country from terrorist attacks. they're enforcing the law. and if they were to get rid of even a large number of the agents that were involved in january 6th, that is a huge part of the counterterrorism. section of the fbi, the people that we most need at this moment when the threat from isis and as you guys articulated in the last segment, is only rising. >> so, ken, let's talk a little more about that dynamic and some dissent in the, in the, in the bureau and how it could change. now, fbi director nominee kash patel, democrats want a second hearing with him in wake of all this turmoil there. we'll see if they get it. chuck grassley, the

republican senator, says his vote could come up confirmation vote as early as next week. so we don't have patel in place yet. but pam bondi was confirmed late last night as attorney general. talk to us about how any of this could change this ongoing debate within the bureau. >> you know. >> jonathan. >> that is a huge question that those of us who've been watching this closely are really wondering about. does pam bondi come in and put a stop to this or, you know, make a show of putting a stop to this? >> or does. >> kash patel do that or is he. the other thing could happen, which is kash patel could get confirmed and then decide to carry out mass firings. and there's very little that could stop him at this point. you know what's really remarkable, though, is that while all the democrats have been, you know, complaining about this and urging that kash patel answer questions about it, which he has not, the. >> republicans haven't. >> said a peep. >> chuck grassley. >> who for decades has been a champion of good government and of whistleblowers and of integrity at the fbi, has not

said a word about the fact. >> that kash. >> patel got up in front of his committee under oath and said he wasn't aware of any plans for retribution or mass firing. when there are people very close to him who are working on the seventh floor of the fbi right now, who my sources say were deeply involved in this. so how all this plays out remains to be seen. there is a there's a political, you know, atmosphere here, though, where the fbi really has managed to push back and gin up public sentiment in their favor because, look, you know, fbi agents, they're. mostly republicans, and they are now up in arms against this plan by the trump administration to identify january 6th people who worked on those cases because they say, like, i mean, this is what they see as a campaign of intimidation. how could anybody now work on a case that that could get them crosswise with a trump political appointee after this has happened? that's bad enough, but if it goes any further, it will only be worse as far as they're concerned. >> very twisted. nbc's ken dilanian, thank you very much.

we have still more to cover here because there is a lot going on at the same time. so hang in there. an official memo says nearly the entire global workforce of usaid will be placed on administrative leave by friday. the online posting says there would be exceptions for people responsible for mission critical functions. this comes after the agency's acting chief human capital officer was pushed out for refusing to place employees on leave yesterday. so the memo came from pete morocco, who secretary of state marco rubio, empowered to review the work done by usaid. morocco held several national security positions during the first trump administration, including at the agency. but multiple sources tell nbc news he was ultimately pushed out of office. online sleuths have also identified morocco as being among the

rioters who stormed the capitol on january 6th. legal experts say the president does not have authority to abolish a federal agency created by congress. but in a letter to lawmakers, secretary rubio cited a law requiring the executive branch notify and consult with congress on any proposed reorganization, which could signal a potential loophole. when asked about trump's authority to shut down government agencies, house speaker mike johnson had this to say. >> the details. >> it all depends. >> on the details we are. well, look what they're doing with usaid is an analysis of the expenditures. and as you've seen, there have been a lot of abuses in that agency. so they'll be an appropriate action, i think, for congress to take. but we haven't yet sorted out exactly what's happening. >> with it. >> but yes. >> or no. >> does trump have the authority to shut down government agencies without congress, like. >> yes or no? >> if it's. >> not that simple?

>> because if there. >> are executive branch. >> agencies, if there are executive branch agencies, the executive is in charge of them. congress funds them. but there are important, you know, questions to be asked about all the parameters of that. so i don't have. >> all the answers. >> an easy answer. >> so you've got republicans seemingly supporting everything that is happening here, or at least muddling the message so they don't have to answer the question. i want to point out the man who's in charge of basically breaking down usaid, pete morocco. so he was there during this. we have video for you of that, the january 6th riot. he's he's in there meandering among the rioters. i don't know if he actually participated, but he was there as these rioters committed countless criminal acts against our capitol, against the peaceful transition of power, against our capitol police

officers, threatening our lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. this man tasked with dismantling usaid, which is the humanitarian arm of the government, but also usaid, serves a major foreign policy function as well, keeping us tapped in to dangerous places. the man who was meandering among those people is tasked with breaking down something that has taken decades to build up a presence around the world that makes america greater and strong. and so while that's happening, there are other things to cover as well. and what we're going to try and do here is stay on top of everything, because there is an onslaught of signals and a lot of noise. but i thought that was worth pointing out. and republicans again, don't seem to have a voice on any of this.

democrats yesterday they used their voices holding, quote, a nobody elected ellen rally outside the u.s. treasury building. they're vowing to fight what they call a hostile seizure of power by elon musk. since friday, the billionaire has gained access to payment systems at the treasury department and has been the driving force behind the closure of the government's leading international humanitarian aid agency. >> when we open up the senate every single morning, we don't pledge. >> allegiance to. the billionaires. we don't. >> we don't pledge. allegiance to elon musk. we don't pledge allegiance to the creepy 22 year olds working for elon musk. >> we pledge. >> allegiance to. >> the united states of america. >> and so i want to. >> make sure. >> that my mother gets her security, her social security check, not because she pledged his allegiance to elon, but

because she pledged his allegiance to the united states of america. >> i want. >> to make sure your. neighbor gets their tax refund, not because they pledge allegiance to. >> the billionaire class. >> but because they pledge. allegiance to the united states of america. >> a few months ago, elon musk spent $280 million to buy an election for donald trump. >> yes. >> now elon musk is here to collect on his investment. >> yes. >> yes, he is here to seize power for himself. we are here to fight back. >> yes, yes. >> chris murphy, senator murphy, that you saw there will be our guest at the top of the next hour of morning joe. meanwhile, top republicans in the senate are defending musk's actions, insisting he's not in charge and

that congress will have to approve any major changes. >> elon musk. >> is a he reminds me. >> of a strategist. >> that i used to engage. >> in big. >> transformation projects back when i was in in the private. >> sector. >> he's throwing. >> out big. >> ideas, and if anybody thinks that all of these big. >> ideas are going to be implemented. >> to conclusion, they don't understand the process. >> of disruption. >> he is identifying some things. >> that i do think. >> need to be looked at, and many of those things would. >> require congressional. everybody's acting. >> like congress doesn't exist anymore. >> what do you do? you and. other senators. >> know what you're talking about will. >> require congressional. >> approval to actually. >> structurally change them. but i'm. >> glad people. >> are. >> asking questions. >> because i'm sick. >> of people. for the last. >> ten years. >> i've been here. >> looking the other way. >> actually, i think he's been a very positive. >> influence and. >> lent his notoriety to raise the visibility of the excessive spending and waste and fraud. >> in the. >> way the. >> federal government.

>> does its business. >> obviously. >> he doesn't have the authority to legislate. >> and that's. >> going to be up to congress. but i think his highlighting some of these stories has. >> been well. >> it has been and will continue to be very helpful. >> so wait, i just the speaker earlier was saying it was so complicated and you know, so they do have the power to approve these things. which is it with these republicans, i can't tell. are they powerful? are they strong? can they hold the line? can they protect the constitution? or maybe not. can't tell. joining us now, msnbc political analyst anand giridharadas. he is publisher of the newsletter the ink, available on substack. and anand, where do we begin? there's a lot going on. and elon musk, it seems that republicans are kind of tiptoeing around him. but they actually do say when you ask about elon musk, that things actually have to be

approved, that there is a process. but you ask them about purges or usaid or all these other things that are happening, and it's bada bada bada bada bada da da. not much to say. so which is it? and is elon musk getting under their skin? >> yeah. you know, i woke up very early this morning. >> to come. >> see you. and i was trying. >> to think. >> about exactly what you were saying before the onslaught. right. the, the onslaught. >> that we've. >> been promised. >> steve bannon telegraphed they would be trying to flood the zone. >> he said. >> specifically, they would be trying to. overwhelm the media's capacity. and i was trying to think about what i wanted. >> to. >> write this. morning about how we find that. >> signal amid the. >> noise, as you were saying. and looking at all these things from from trade wars that are, that are, that are stupid. >> and. >> you know, ill advised to. >> frankly, the ethnic cleansing that the president. proposed yesterday in the gaza. >> strip to. >> to. >> turn it. >> into the third 51st. state. that he has proposed all these things. but i.

>> think one of these. >> things is. >> not like the other. and i. >> think elon musk. >> right now, it. >> should be said, is. >> waging an. >> anti-constitutional coup in this country, attempting to usurp as a wealthy private citizen the power of congress. frankly, he's usurping some of the president's power, but he's certainly usurping congress's power. he is unilaterally trying to go. >> in to agencies and shut them down. >> not advise, but. >> go in. >> physically into offices, secure. >> access to information in the treasury department. elsewhere that he is not entitled. >> to, that he does not have clearance for, and he is nobody to the american. constitutional order. >> and yet he is trying. >> to unravel it. and i think amid all the. attentional pressures of the onslaught that you that you. >> rightly named, we. >> need to. >> focus on this because. >> this is an attack on the system that decides. >> all the other systems. >> the system that. >> decides whether we go to war or not, the system that decides, you know, whether people are fired or not. this is the meta, the meta threat. and lastly, i

will say, i think a lot of us. in particularly. >> the traditional elements. >> of the media, and i, like many of us around the table, straddle, both. have have struggled to name this, particularly our newspapers, our old venerable. newspapers are struggling. >> to name. >> this very clearly. there's a kind of old thing of, well. >> he proposed this. >> and some call it this, this, this old form of. reporting a coup is a word with a. >> meaning. >> we have no problem. >> in. >> america describing it. when it happens. in africa, we should. >> be able. >> to describe it when. >> it. >> happens here. >> so let's also. >> of course, remember. >> elon musk received not a single vote. he has not been confirmed to any position. he has a nebulous white house job. he doesn't even draw a government paycheck. he's a private citizen. and as i wrote this week too, about him, the headline, he's president, he's acting like he's president right now, that musk has been empowered in a way by trump. trump willing to let musk take some arrows for some criticism he might receive, but he is broadly reshaping the institution and destroying

slashing the institutions of this government, thom tillis said. people act like congress doesn't exist anymore. in this case, it's not. congress has rolled over here for trump and musk. we did see, though, for the first time, perhaps in the two weeks that trump has been in office, democrats have found their voice. they have really pushed back against this. do you, as someone who has counseled them to be more active, is this something? do you think they're doing it the right way? what more do they need to be saying to call attention to everything musk is laying waste to right now? >> i mean, first of all, the democrats transition from being asleep during a coup to being awake during a coup is a trend in the right direction. being awake is certainly preferable to being asleep. and some. >> of that. >> you know, i think chris murphy has been someone. who's been a real leader early in this. you had senator brian schatz this week, his colleague, talking about using the power to confirm or. >> not. >> confirm appointees, using that against these. >> kind of. >> anti-constitutional maneuvers. so that's great. but at the end of the day, the

democratic party right now is completely leaderless. and they can say that, you know, well, we have a lot of leaders, but that's not really what a leader is. they have to show they've elected someone who was sort of, i think, bland. if you just ask regular people and there's no real clear message, there's no real clear sense of fight. you still have these messages of, well, we got to trust in god or we'll pass a law to regulate the treasury. there's no understanding that this is a very serious, concerted, institutional anti-constitutional coup being waged by very determined actors. and it is going to take, as i was saying in the media, a level of seeing and clarity in the media, but it is going to take among the democratic party a level of fight, a willingness to use tactics. i think probably having some kind of clear leader who speaks out of the out of the morass for everyone to be able to be adequate to responding to this anti-constitutional coup.

>> ali. >> you follow politics as closely as anyone. >> i know. >> you know. >> we're not. >> structured by like. >> the. >> british government, where you have an opposition party. >> and shadow. >> cabinet and. leader of the opposition. what is the conversation on the democratic side? >> is there. >> a collective conversation or are there 26 conversations with all. >> the. >> would be. self-appointed leaders of the opposition? what's going on? >> it's an excellent question. and over the weekend, we saw the democratic national committee elect a new chair. that person is not going to be seen, though, as the new leader. instead, they're going to be the person that tries to hurt all of the cats that think they could be the leader. heading into the 2028 presidential election, which i cannot even believe. i am talking that far in advance. but that's where the democratic conversation is going. and it harkens me back, frankly, to last week when we had governor gretchen whitmer of michigan on morning joe, and i asked her, who is the leader of the democratic party right now? it wasn't a question to be cute. her answer was that there are many leaders, which is exactly what anon is saying there. but

the idea of being a leader is exactly that. there is one person out in front, and that's exactly what ed luce, who is the national editor at the financial times and who is sitting at this table with me right now, is writing about in his new piece titled while democrats sleep in it, you write in part, quote, trump is burning america's rule book. if he carries on like this, democrats will have no choice but to send him a strongly worded letter to claim that america's minority party is too punch drunk to get its act together would be charitable. not being parliamentary, the u.s. lacks an opposition leader to spearhead the fight back. the system's closest approximation, chuck schumer, the senate minority leader, is following the rules of a vanished age. it's not as if schumer is being outshone by colleagues. a few days after trump's inauguration, hakeem jeffries, who's the democratic leader in the house of representatives, posted, president's come and presidents go through it all. god is still on the throne. that is as may be. but fatalism has no track record of stopping revolutions. it's a bleak view that you give

here, and it's one that makes this idea of democrats lacking a message seem like a very quaint calculus of what's actually going on here within this party. >> yeah, i think, ali, that we all, at some level in our brain, have the sinclair lewis novel. >> it can't. >> happen here in our head. we have that sort of deeply ingrained complacency. >> not only can. >> it happening happen. >> here, it is. >> happening here. and i don't think that chuck schumer. >> hakeem jeffries. >> and other leaders, we've. >> yet to see. >> what ken martin will be like as a dnc chair. >> i don't think they've really taken that on board. yesterday. >> senate minority. >> leader schumer. >> and jeffries announced they'd have a stop the steal bill. >> to prevent musk from taking control of federal payment system. this is something. that's already illegal, and. >> it's a bill that would. >> stand no chance of passing. >> so it's the kind of gimmickry that we'd have in a normal time

of politics. >> this is, i think, as shannon. >> says, i fully agree, this is a coup that's happening. >> it is happening here. it's happening now. strategies based on winning the midterm elections. >> 21 months from now. >> could be completely hypothetical. if they carry. >> on at the. >> speed they're going and with the intention. they are signaling to us every single day. so i think this requires a far more radical. >> and drastic. >> sort of rethink of what. >> the. >> democrats democratic strategy. >> should be. >> and i hear that from my democratic sources, who privately will engage on the idea that the party is adrift, even as they have forceful responses like the one we saw outside the treasury department. so what does it look like to do? not the ordinary pushback, but the stepped up pushback. >> so, i. >> mean, it's. >> worth studying. >> i think what mitch mcconnell did. >> as senate minority leader during barack obama's presidency, during those two terms, he managed to use every trick in the. book to delay, to

filibuster, to deprive. >> the majority. >> of time. >> to basically frustrate. >> and, and force them into sort of trade offs they didn't want to make. that is one thing i think chuck schumer should be doing. there should be blanket holds on trump's nominees until the real one. musk. is actually subjected to questioning and is actually subjected to conflict of interest. rules and ethics regulations that the tiniest bureaucrat, you know, who can't accept a $20 lunch. musk can waltz past a $20 billion conflict of interest, and they don't have the right to question him. this makes a mockery of democracy, of a constitution, of the rule of law. so that would be a start. >> yeah. and, you know, ali, and to all of us here, it's like a thought experiment. i'm curious that we could ruminate on the answer, because there is a limit to what the democrats can do at

this point. are we to discount the republicans as incapable of having values and valor, valor at this time and the ability to see what's going on? are they just counted out? that's that's my sort of big question of the day. is there not one, not one that would step up and say something? we're going to ask this and much more after a quick break. coming up, we have the latest on the confirmation hearings for two of president trump's most controversial cabinet picks. as the senate advances nominations for tulsi gabbard and robert f kennedy jr. gabbard and robert f kennedy jr. morning joe will be right back. some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking allstate first. okay, let's get going. can everybody see that? like you know to check your desktop first, before sharing your screen.

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>> beautiful shot of new york city. top of the hour. welcome back to morning joe. it is wednesday, february 5th. jonathan lemire, ali vitali, anand giridharadas and editor with us. and joining the conversation, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle joins us. good to see you. mike, let's get to our very top story of many this morning. president trump says the united states should take over gaza. he made the brazen proposal during a joint press conference with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu yesterday. trump also

suggested the 2 million palestinians living in gaza should relocate to egypt or jordan, a move both countries have opposed. >> so by the united states, with its stability and strength owning it, especially the strength that we're developing and developed over the last fairly short period of time, i would say, really, since the election, i think we'll be a great keeper of something that is very, very strong, very powerful and very, very good for the area, not just for israel, for the entire middle east, very important. i do see a long term ownership position, and i see it bringing great stability to that part of the middle east and maybe the entire middle east. and everybody i've spoken to. this was not a decision made lightly. everybody i've spoken to loves the idea of the united states owning that piece of land, developing and creating thousands of jobs with something

that will be magnificent in a really magnificent area that nobody would know. nobody can look because all they see is death and destruction and rubble and demolished buildings falling all over. it's just a terrible, terrible sight. i've studied it. i've studied this very closely over a lot of months, and i've seen it from every different angle. and it's a very, very dangerous place to be. and it's only going to get worse. gaza is a hellhole right now. it was before the bombing started, frankly, and we're going to give people a chance to live in a beautiful community that's safe and secure. and i think you're going to see tremendous, tremendous outflowing of support. i can tell you, i spoke to other leaders of countries in the middle east, and they love the idea. they say it would really bring stability. and what we need is stability. >> all right. joining us now, democratic member of the senate

foreign relations committee, senator chris murphy of connecticut. senator, thank you for being on this morning. we have a lot to get to. i can't help but to start with that. the president says he wants gaza and he wants to make it beautiful. what is the impact of this intention? >> well, the impact is to. >> try. >> to. >> distract americans. >> from the real story. donald trump and elon musk are trying to seize control of the government so that. >> they can. >> punish their friends, punish their enemies, and reward their friends, try to squash dissent. and gobble up a bunch of money to be able to pass along another massive tax cut for their billionaire and corporate friends. we're not going to invade and occupy gaza. we're not going to invade greenland. we're not taking back the panama canal. but donald trump is really good at this campaign of distraction. you saw the american people start to rise up over the weekend when they heard that elon musk was inside treasury stealing their data,

and donald trump doesn't want you or anybody else to talk about that today. he wants to change the conversation. and how does he do that? by making a ridiculous promise that the united states is going to invade, occupy, clear out and rebuild gaza, something that not a single middle east leader will support, something benjamin netanyahu doesn't support, something that would lead to decades of war in the middle east and thousands of americans being killed. he's not going to do it, but he knows that he can turn the conversation to something that's better for him than the billionaire power grab inside our government that's happening right now. >> which we'll talk about now. but i will point out that his comments on gaza, especially if he continues them and i do not believe this is the first time he's made these. could impact the fragile cease fire that's going on right now and could impact the region and could drag america into something it doesn't want to be in. and so

it's worth noting, when he stands next to benjamin netanyahu and says he wants to take over gaza and make it a beachfront property, i'm just saying his words do matter. and it's not just a distraction because it will have a consequence. having said that, i do want to move on to the did you want to say something? >> well, no, listen, i'm not denying that it has a consequence. it definitely has a consequence. i mean, this is literally bulletin board, bulletin board recruiting material today for our terrorist enemies, whether or not we ever go into gaza, the idea that the americans are coming is going to allow for hamas and hamas, follow on organizations to be able to recruit more into their ranks. the idea that we're going to clear gaza out of palestinians, that drives young men to extremist groups, to groups that are based around violence. so there's no doubt i'm not trying to underplay the fact that this has an impact in the middle east. i just i just don't i'm just sure it's not happening. and so i don't want

to overplay the idea that this is a serious proposal. >> so let's move on to usaid. an official memo says nearly the entire global workforce of usaid will be placed on administrative leave by friday. what is happening with usaid? what are the consequences? and then what are, if any, real guardrails against it being broken down? >> so this is illegal and it is unconstitutional, and it is in violation of the existing court orders that have told donald trump to stop the shuttering of u.s. government programs. and so this is a constitutional crisis that is growing. you know, i talked to many of my republican colleagues yesterday about what i knew to be happening at usaid. many of us, you know, had heard that this was going to be announced overnight. and, you know, most of them all said, no,

that can't be true. you know, you're making too much of this. no, donald trump is shutting down the u.s. aid organization that keeps this country safe. and what's the impact? okay, the impact is that china and russia and terrorist groups are cheering today because usaid chases china around the world, trying to dampen their influence and helps ukraine fight on the eastern front. and it tries to dampen the reasons that people join terrorist groups. we're all searching for why this is happening. elon musk has huge business interests in china. he has a financial interest in making china happy. and one of the things that makes china delight is the united states withdrawing from the world, especially usaid, which is a huge thorn in china's side. i just think that is most likely a big part of the story here. >> so i yeah, so let's do it piece by piece here. i'm curious, what should people who

received this notice to be placed on leave by friday? what should they do? i mean, there are a lot of people who work for usaid servants who've been there for decades, even who know that what they do provides food to different corners of the world, or medical supplies or water. and they know that their jobs provide, like not being there, will stop the ability to get people what they need. and also, obviously, usaid, whether one wants to believe this or not, does perform a national security function as well. so let's leave those threats aside and ask you, what should these people do who received this notice to leave? >> yeah, i mean, listen, i am not an employment lawyer, so i'm probably not in the best position to tell them what to do. obviously, they are being ordered by their superiors to

leave, and there seems to also be some threat reported in the papers that if they don't, the u.s. military will gladly escort them out of town. now, this is going to go to court. the president already has been told that he has illegally shut down u.s. operations, both in usaid and in other agencies. and so clearly, there's going to be a fight over the next 24 to 48 hours as to whether the president can do this. so my hope is that there'll be a court order. >> hold on. senator. yeah. and while we're waiting for the courts to go through this, what is the ramification? what happens? these people leave their jobs. what are the consequences? >> well, the consequences are that people die. babies die. i mean, right now we are involved in gaza and in sudan in providing food to malnourished babies. literally, there will be dead children, hundreds, thousands of them. and china will very quickly jump into the void. remember, we're in a

contest with china as to who owns the piping of the international economy for the next 50 years. and when the united states disappears from africa, when we are not helping africa with economic development projects or security projects or clean water projects, china will be there and do it for us. and then when there's a contract for 5g or port infrastructure or a critical mineral deposit, it will be china that will get that contract, and it will be the us that loses out both in influence and in jobs. so it's immediately catastrophic to the united states in terms of our influence around the world and our ability to protect ourselves from china, russia and non-state actors. >> senator murphy, good morning. you mentioned elon musk. he's obviously involved at usaid, but he and his team also a few other agencies right now, including the department of treasury, the white house has offered sort of conflicting answers as to what sort of access and clearance musk actually has to these payment systems there at the treasury. but it certainly set off a lot of alarms. talk to us

about what can be done here legally, politically, what do you what can democrats at this moment do to raise the concerns, to try to block whatever musk is attempting to do there at some of our, frankly, most sensitive sites, some of our nation's deepest, important secrets. >> yeah. so it is extraordinary how much access elon musk and his sort of creepy 22 year old henchmen have to all of our data, right? they have they have information that would allow them to shut down your tax refund, your medicare payment. they know everything, potentially. they know everything about you and your family. and the reality is that this could get dystopian very quickly, that if you were to start speaking ill of elon musk on social media, elon musk might be able to stop or delay your tax refund or your mom's social security benefit, in part because we have no window into what's happening inside the department of treasury right now. we were there last night on the steps of the treasury

department, asking to get in and meet with people to find out what the extent of the damage was. we thought there would be a couple hundred people with us. there were, i think over a thousand, perhaps 2000 people. the american people are rising up right now, putting pressure on legislators, including republicans, to step in and do something about this. listen, we are the minority party. republicans are in charge in the united states senate and house of representatives. if we were to have any chance of passing legislation to stop elon musk's power grab and information grab, republicans would have to work with us. and so we are going to use whatever levers we have to try to raise the temperature in the senate. i am not voting for a single nominee. i'm not expediting a single nominee until republicans join us to stop this power grab, we will go to the courts on what's happening in the department of treasury. we will hold rallies this weekend to make sure that republicans know that they're going to pay a political price. we will use every tool at our disposal to try to get this crisis fixed, but we ultimately need republicans who are in charge to take this seriously. >> right. so i'm going to have

anand giridharadas ask the next question. but anand, to senator murphy's point, usaid, among other things, is the united states. it's an expression of the united states influence and power around the world. and in essence, here the u.s. is giving up its power and influence and letting countries like china step in and fill the void. in terms of president trump's best interest in mind, why would the president want to give up being influential and being powerful? what would be the reason? >> because the only thing that he seems more interested in at this moment, when which threads through so many of his policies, is dehumanization. what threads through his policies and in gaza, in policies attacking usaid, which, as the senator said, feeds babies and going after immigrants and birthright citizenship and various other things there. he is part of a

long tradition of authoritarian leaders who need to dehumanize some in order to create in-group solidarity among their own tribe of voters. and there's no limit. senator murphy, it's good to see you. i wanted to ask you, you know, you and i have had an ongoing conversation that i will say over the last several years that is that is different from conversations i've had with anybody else who's elected. because you've been doing some deeper. under the under the present level, thinking about the future of the democratic party. and i would say among people who are elected, you're thinking about it has been clearer and starker and more honest. you are a team player in the arena, but you're also an internal critic of your own party. you said something to me that i've never forgotten, which is democrats are in love with subtleties and that has to change. so i know you're a good team player, but as that honest critic right now, i would imagine that 90% of people watching this right now feel profoundly undefended by the

democratic party right now, in spite of your very vociferous comments recently, in spite of some of the stuff we saw this week, the overall effect, i'm sure you would have heard this too is a profound sense. they don't expect anything from the republicans at this point. they understand it's an authoritarian movement, but they feel profoundly undefended. can you give us your honest, even if uncomfortable, assessment of where democrats are going wrong right now and what a different version of the democratic party can look like that is adequate to this threat. >> well, that is an enormous question, but a very important one. i do think people understand that we are the minority party. we don't run the white house. we are the minority in the house and in the senate. but we need to act like a real opposition party in the middle of a constitutional and democracy crisis. that means we should not be moving forward. nominees or legislation in the united states senate democrats should not be giving votes to

nominees or to legislation in the united states senate until republicans get serious about this crisis. democrats should not help republicans raise the debt ceiling in order to pass their massive tax cut for billionaires and millionaires, democrats should be leading public gatherings all weekend, all across the country, to bring americans out, to show republicans that they will pay a price. and then democrats need to speak in really stark terms about what is going on here. yes, we are obsessed with subtleties, but i don't think it's a mystery as to what is happening here. i think this is a billionaire power grab. i think elon musk is trying to steal our money, is trying to steal our data. i think elon musk is shutting down usaid because he wants to do deals with china and make more money. and i know that there are some in the democratic party that, you know, don't like jumping to conclusions, that there are some in the democratic party that don't like to call out specific billionaires for what they are doing to all of us, but this is a moment in which we've got to engage in very, very simple and

strong terms about what is happening side by side with being a true opposition party in the senate, using our tools to make life difficult for complicit republicans, and then going out there and leading a public engagement, which is, i think, the next step that we have to do now, don't just fight on the inside, go fight on the outside. so all of those things are vital. i don't know that all of my democratic colleagues were there a week ago. i'm hoping that they are going to get there this week. i think many of them are. so. >> senator murphy, this is sort of a. >> follow. >> up of a man's. >> question, and it. has to do with something that very. >> few people, i think. >> are familiar. >> with, maybe a lot of people, even in your own. >> business and your own party. >> are unfamiliar. >> with it's. >> article one. >> section one of. >> something called. >> the united states constitution. >> and it reads. >> all legislative powers herein. >> granted shall be. >> vested in a. congress of the united. >> states. >> which shall consist. of a senate. >> and a house of representatives. my question to

you. >> is. >> how many of. >> your colleagues know that the burglars are. in the house? they're on. >> the ground floor. >> they've made their they've. made their entry and they were among us. >> what are you going to do about it? we know what. >> you're going to do about it. >> you've been very articulate. >> and very forceful. where is the rest of your party? >> yeah. listen, i do think people understand the gravity of this crisis. and the effort right now is to step up and deliver the blow that is necessary. so, yes, we are, i think, getting to the point where we are going to as a party, make clear that we're not doing business as usual in the senate if this power grab continues. but then we've got to go translate that to the american public. so in 2017, we were able to stop the repeal of the affordable care act. and that wasn't because democrats were really good at messaging. that was because we worked with

outside groups and the public to raise up a protest level, a volume level that republicans couldn't avoid. and so over the next week, we are going to need to do that with the american public on this power grab as well. it is not just up to the 47 democrats in the senate. we've got to work with the american public to make it clear that republicans are going to pay a price at the polls in the elections coming up this november in special elections, if they continue to lie down with this, this power grab, we've we have got to be on our game inside and outside. >> okay. >> one last quick question. >> how is it then. >> that one. >> very limited. >> individual, the senator from alabama, tommy tuberville, can tie up the entire united states senate for nearly a year. and the democrats apparently can't tie. >> up the senate. >> for an hour. what's going on there? >> well, i don't i don't know that there's anything different here. i mean, i and others have said that just like tommy

tuberville wouldn't give consent for expedited confirmation of military nominees. we're going to do the same thing for state department nominees and likely many other agencies. so there is not going to be business as usual in the senate. it only takes one senator to stop expedited confirmation of some cabinet nominees. and we shouldn't be granting expedited confirmation to anybody until this constitutional crisis passes. we should not be making it easy for republicans to do anything until they get serious about protecting our democracy. >> yeah. and i think, as with tuberville, the push and pull of this will be that you don't want you your actions to make america weaker, which one could argue tuberville did. democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, thank you very much for coming on this morning. please come back. it's good to see you, sir. ed louis, i'm curious. i know you are writing a big book, looking at the world

through the eyes of a big thinker. if you could finish this sentence for us, america is on the precipice of dot, dot, dot. take it away. >> something unimaginable, or at least unimaginable to most people. because, as i was saying earlier, we do think that it couldn't happen here. i if you're sitting in in canada, if you're sitting in in london, if you're sitting in berlin, if you're sitting in any capital of any of the allies, you are witnessing something you haven't seen either, which is a predatory america, which is america that is now got a president who is coveting territory, demanding territory in three different continents. now, i think senator murphy is probably right that a lot of this is a distraction. but the person who, you know, senator thinks we should be focusing on, and i fully agree, that is elon

musk, head of doge, which somebody recently, i think quite cleverly renamed dangerous oligarch, grabs everything. that person, elon musk is also actively undermining allied democracies. he is campaigning for the neo nazi party to win the german elections two weeks from now. he's told a rally of that party, the afd, that germans should no longer feel guilt for their history. he is every day expressing nostalgia for the apartheid south africa that he grew up in. he is attacking and has persuaded trump to join the attack on south africa's black majority government today for allegedly persecuting whites. this is this isn't something that you can rummage through american history and find an analogy for. what trump wants to be is what he keeps telling us that he wants

to be. and that's vladimir putin, that's vladimir putin. pretty soon we're going to get kash patel confirmed to the fbi on the pretense that, oh, no, he never had an enemies list. of course he had an enemies list. he wrote a book listing his enemies, and that that person is going to pursue these enemies. he is going to investigate the investigators. he is going to prosecute the prosecutors. this is putinism. it is happening right now. america's allies know this. and i think, you know, i think senator murphy very clearly knows this. i just want to see the democratic party act as if this is really true, because if it is really true, you've got to think out of the box. you've got to be very radical in in stopping this from happening before it's too late. >> u.s. national editor for the financial times, ed lewis, thank you very much for being on this

morning. we appreciate your insights very much. and still ahead on morning joe, unions representing tens of thousands of government employees are suing to block the trump administration's buyout offer to federal workers. we'll talk about that legal effort and whether the offer violates the law. plus, in an age where misinformation seemingly goes unchecked, one of our next guests is trying to dismantle dozens of myths about how the american political system actually works. that important and timely conversation is straight ahead on morning joe. >> i can't follow that. >> i heard you found. >> someone special. yeah. is that dog food. in the fridge? >> it's not dog food. >> it's fresh pet. >> real meat. real veggies. >> for peter. >> that's peter. >> i should. >> i should. >> have on medicare? living with diabetes?

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wander app or visit wander dotcom today to get $250 off your first trip. >> it's exactly half past the hour. time now to look at some of the other stories making headlines. this morning. at least ten people were killed in a shooting at a school for adults in central sweden yesterday. police say the shooter is believed to be dead. swedish authorities say the gunman acted alone and they do not believe any more attacks were planned. while shootings like this are rare in sweden, the country's homicide rate has risen to among the highest in the european union in recent years. ukraine is welcoming president trump's offer to trade its minerals for military support. on monday, trump said the united states wants resources like lithium, uranium

and titanium in exchange for security assistance. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy, who first suggested the proposal last year, called the idea absolutely fair and new data shows fewer americans are quitting their jobs. a number of people who left work last year hit the lowest level since 2020. while the u.s. job market remains solid, analysts say there is less opportunity for people who are looking to trade up for more lucrative positions. hiring is also slowed as companies are more focused on controlling salary costs. jonathan lemire. >> well, we know that president donald trump and elon musk are looking to push federal workers more of them, into unemployment. but unions representing government employees have filed a lawsuit to block the trump administration's plan to offer buyouts to. indeed, those federal workers. in a complaint filed by the american federation

of government employees and two other unions. they claim that the buyout offer is arbitrary and capricious and violates federal law. they also allege the administration cannot guarantee the plan will be funded, and that it has failed to consider the consequences of mass resignations. it comes as a spokesperson for the office of personnel management says that more than 20,000 federal employees have accepted the buyout offer put forward. joining us now to talk about it, msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. danny, good morning. good to see you. let's start with the with what the concerns the union raised, the legality of this plan. >> there are. >> a lot of. >> open questions. >> about this plan. >> and because. >> there. >> are open. >> questions, that means there are a lot of. >> potential legal challenges. one, for example. >> is. >> yes, that it may. be arbitrary and capricious. those are magic words. >> under the administrative procedures act, which basically provides that the government.

>> can't do anything. >> without thinking about it a little. >> bit first. >> and there's certainly. a strong argument to be made here. in fact, the complaint even. >> gives an example. >> of something. similar that it alleges was rolled out. >> correctly during the. >> clinton administration. there was a. >> similar buyout, but. >> people had up to a year. >> to plan. >> they considered. exactly how they were going. >> to take this plan and whether it would work. a matter. >> of a week is arbitrary and capricious to make that decision. the other there are many other concerns, for example, appropriations. >> for most federal. agencies end. >> on march 14th. so what's the promise worth after march 14th? the government. responds in a sense that, hey, no problem. if for some reason we can't fulfill. our obligations, then there's case law. there are courts that say that a resignation is considered involuntary. but to me, that seems like a hollow assurance that, hey, if. >> later on you find. >> out that we misrepresented to you, the. government about your. >> employment. >> then maybe you can sue us, maybe you can go to court. but you might have a legal claim

that to. >> me, that's in the. >> memo of. >> the. >> government, the opm, justifying. the legality of this. that to me seems. like a weakness in the argument. >> so. >> danny. >> what's. >> the quickest. >> way to. >> get the government. >> from stopping telling people, go home, don't work, stay at home. we're going to close your agency. what's the quickest way to put a cease and. >> hold on all of that? >> probably legal action. >> and we learned. >> this by the way, back during the first trump administration, the first trump administration would issue executive orders. they'd come up with these plans, and the approach appeared to be. >> well. >> we'll think about this a little bit, but hey, if it's illegal, then the courts will prune this like a governmental bonsai tree down to whatever we want, or we'll just restart, or we'll take back our executive order and reissue something else. so that appears to be their approach here. even if they didn't think it through very well, then maybe the administration is just thinking, hey, a court will tell us what we can do and what we can't do. and now that this complaint has been filed, we're going to get some kind of adjudication on the merits eventually, assuming this

offer remains out there in its present form. >> but this morning, we've been talking about how overwhelming all of this information is, all these developments. this is, again, an area of a lot of complexity that you're helping us wade through. but i wonder if you can step back and explain how we have a civil service in this country that is different from political appointees on top, there's a purpose to the kinds of employment structures they have. and what the upshot for the trump administration of trying to purge so many civil servants is, what is the why of why this is happening? >> well, i think the why is clear. the objective of the trump administration is pretty discernible. it's whether or not they're achieving it through these means. and it's obviously to reduce the government workforce. but as you pointed out, there are different kinds of government employees. there are there are appointees, there are civil servants. and i think that is one of the things the trump administration and again, they did it the first time around. they sort of act quickly without really thinking it

through and just let courts figure it out. they may not be able to make the same offers to different government employees depending on their status. government employment law is so complex that for the most part, there are lawyers that practice only in that area because there are so many complicated issues about pensions, the status of whether you can be terminated, all these kinds of issues that simply don't apply in the private sector. so you find that there are attorneys out there that focus their practice exclusively in this area because it's so complex. and i think that's why the administration sort of broad strokes approach may not work that seamlessly when it comes to government employment. >> terrific analysis, as. always from msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. danny, thank you so much. and ali, we are seeing this here as just part of what is a deliberate strategy from the trump administration to flood the zone, throw as much as you can up against the wall. do it quickly. know that something's going to fall down in the courts, but you're able to achieve something to towards

your larger goals. >> and to certainly push the optics, because you're right, jonathan, as we see huge changes to our federal government with this new trump administration, it's perhaps more important than ever that americans understand the fundamentals of how their government works here to help us understand that. joining us is george washington university professor and former congressional staffer casey burgett. he's the author of a new book titled we hold these truths how to spot the myths that are holding america back, in which case he works to debunk some prevalent misconceptions about what happens in washington. thanks for joining us. congrats on the book published yesterday. thank you, thank you. you talk about a lot of myths. it's almost like a myth busters for government. huge fan of the show. so apply the myth that you think is most applicable right now to what we've talked about all morning. >> yeah. >> that has to be. >> the myth about presidential. >> power, right? >> that that. >> the president's. just if they say they want to do this, if we. want to. >> change x shutter this. >> government agency, a. >> lot of voters. >> say.

>> all right, cool, i like that. go do that. and then of course. >> presidents who promised this want to come through on their promises, go. >> in on day one with a. >> stack of executive. >> orders up to their eyeballs. and they follow through. >> on this. >> so long as congress. >> lets them. >> right, they're not supposed. >> to. >> legislate from. >> the oval office. we heard earlier. >> literally. >> the constitution. >> read out loud. >> that all legislative powers are granted with a congress. >> that's how it's. >> supposed to work. >> if a congress stands up and does this. so one. >> of. >> the. >> myths about the constitution. >> itself is that it just. >> applies itself in all scenarios. >> that it will ring. >> a buzzer if something goes wrong. and this isn't. >> how. >> it's supposed. >> to do it. >> it doesn't. yeah, that thing. >> lays there unless. >> people. >> political actors, voters. >> courts, all of the players. uphold their. >> roles in it. >> and if they don't, then. >> we get. what's going on. right now, which. >> is. >> like, can he really do that? and then we have to talk. >> about it, which is a question that we ask all the time. and it strikes me, as i'm hearing you talk about it, you write these chapters in tandem with other coauthors who know washington, whether it's the white house, capitol hill or others. the two

chapters that it strikes me you're talking about are one that's called the founders in their infinite wisdom, written with our friend of the show, historian lindsay chervinsky. and then the other is members of congress don't do anything with former congressman derek kilmer. kilmer, talk about take your pick. the constitution's role in what we're seeing right now. it's a living document, but not with a built in buzzer. exactly. and then also congress, which right now actually does seem inclined not to do anything. >> yeah. >> the constitution obviously. >> is. >> one that we're checking. i mean, we hear we heard senator chris murphy talk about the constitutional crisis, where we're literally seeing power grabs from the presidency, which is not unique to this president, though he will go further. he's proven it over and over, right, that he'll grab the power so long as someone else, notably congress and the courts, don't check him. we were taught since we're seven years old, we live in a system of checks. >> and balances. >> are the checks there? are they being carried out or are they just being used right now in a, in a in an instance where for political expediency, right. you go do president what we can't do here in congress or we don't even necessarily want to

put our names attached to with a vote that's a different system of government. and i mean, it works so long as you want it to happen, right? so long as your political ends are being met. but make no mistake, you're signing up for another president doing that more and even farther against what you're open for. so the saying of like, if he'll cheat on you, if he cheats with you, he'll cheat on you. that's what you're signing up for. to when the next president comes in, is going to do the exact opposite of what you want. so the myth that the constitution is perfect, written in 1789 for a system that didn't have street lamps, let alone amazon or bitcoin, like, we got to update that constitution. and the irony is, is that the founders knew it. they told us that that they were not deciding this for be forever and ever, and that it is up to each generation to update that document to fit the system of the time. and boy, do we need one now. >> well, casey, i'm curious with all the research you've been doing and working on this book

and then looking at the present state of our politics and exactly what is happening now, all the different moving parts, do you expect the republican congress to be anything but complicit? and if not, what are we? >> yeah. >> this is where we need to get some answers here. right. so it's one thing to have a democratic minority senator on saying, yes, we need to do everything, use every tool in the toolbox. but as we know, within congress and especially on the house side, unless the president's own party right now, given that they have majorities in the house and the senate, unless they start checking them and it doesn't have to be public. i think there's even a little misconception. back in 2016, president trump then didn't get all that he wanted because he had members of his own party checking him often behind the scenes, right? not advancing him, diluting his bills, maybe appealing to a less strong version of what trump wanted. and right now, what is different about this term? a couple things is that these these members of congress,

including on the senate side, were elected on the trump agenda instead of in spite of the trump agenda. and when you have that, they're going to twist themselves in knots to try to defend what he's doing, even though they know better. and so you'll hear senators, and i hear it all the time from elected members of office saying, yeah, god, i wish he weren't doing this. i wish he weren't. they'll tell you this privately, yet they'll go in front of a camera and say, yeah, it may be a good idea, and then they'll work themselves backward to try to make it happen on his behalf. that is a very, very different instance where we don't have the romneys, we don't have the bob corker's, we don't have the mccains right now. these folks were elected on the trump agenda. they're going to do everything they can to make it happen. >> yeah. the new book, we hold these truths how to spot the myths that are holding america back, is available now. george washington university professor and former congressional staffer casey burghardt, thank you so much for coming on the show this

morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. all right. coming up, a simple social media post directed at a specific age group ended up getting a ton of attention online. we'll go through the most popular millennial complaints with the style reporter from the new york times. that's straight ahead on morning joe. >> you can't. find the words to say all. >> the. >> things that come. >> to you. >> that's $225 for the night. >> not bad. $155 for the night. how it's easy when you know where to look. trivago compares hotel prices from hundreds of hotel prices from hundreds of sites so businesses start small, but a lot of them take off. as your business grows, shipstation grows with you. so you can sync and manage all your orders... no matter how big you get. ♪♪ shipstation's custom automations maximize your team's time. plus, you get more carrier options,

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>> man. >> being a millennial, i mean, i feel like we got totally we got totally over, right? we did. okay, hear me out. okay. >> this is what happened. >> millennials. >> it was our time before the pandemic. we were going to, like. >> own >> and, like, have 401 k. i don't know what that is, but we were going to have it. okay? we were. >> going to. whoa. >> stocks. bonds. i don't know, but it was ours. >> and then. >> we all had to go inside because the pandemic. and then while we. >> were on. >> zoom doing zoom yoga, gen z came in and like. >> a phoenix. >> from the ashes. >> just came and usurped. everything from us. and that is unfair because we survived so much already. okay, we survived nine over 11. we survived the housing crisis. we survived elections. okay. yeah, yeah. >> and if you're wondering which one. >> all of them. >> they've all. >> been bad for us. okay. >> i kind of agree with this.

that was comedian jenny zigrino talking about the hardships of being part of the millennial generation. joining us now, new york times style reporter sadia hassan. she recently wrote a piece that highlighted a social media post that went viral, asking users to provide their most, quote, millennial complaint. sadyba, great to have you on. i guess first, explain the premise of this, how this all started. >> yeah, it all started a few weeks ago with the post that asked people to share their most millennial. >> complaints. >> as opposed. >> to their. >> most boomer. >> complaints and boomer complaints. >> that's a concept that's been around for quite some time now. some common ones include that people. >> use their phone. >> too much or nobody works. >> as hard anymore. >> so millennial. >> complaints that's targeted more. >> to the. younger generation. and it was a bit of a jokey post, but it prompted a couple thousand of replies and it

turned into quite a moment of nostalgia for people. some funny ones were that like bring back heels to the club. because gen z is known to wear. sneakers when they go out, or another one was, you know. everyone's ringtone should be a 22nd cut of their favorite song because, you know, in the 2000, people's ringtones were like beyoncé or britney spears or whoever. but what i found to be interesting is that a lot of these replies were not calling back to the 90s or the 2000 or an era long ago, but rather like around a decade ago, 9 or 10 years ago, a time that was not so far long ago. but it feels like this. like it feels. it does feel like a while ago when issues like fragmentation and ai and misinformation were not as prevalent. so a lot of these replies, they did have to do with social media, which

draws attention to just how much the world of social media has changed in the past decade or so. >> and how it has changed us and impacted us and millennials. another response marta writes, quote, millennial complaint bring back 22 to 24 episodes, 42 minutes long, one day a week for six months. it was glorious. another user writes, quote, i absolutely hate that there has to be an app for everything, a username and a password for everything. two factor password managers, etc. i hate it so much. and one user with perhaps a controversial take writes quote, comedy films aren't nearly as funny as they were from 2002 to 2014. i'm noticing also some ominous responses like i'm not going to be able to own a home. home. you know, we're working these insane hours. we're not going to get the same life that our parents had, which i think is a reality that we're seeing playing out before these

millennials who are faced with some serious challenges. they used to be kind of the butt of jokes, and now actually, they are the warriors of these changing times. >> exactly, exactly inflation. that was a topic that came up a lot. and every generation is wary of new changes. but if there is a baton to be passed, it's like it's the millennials turn to kind of express their grievances. so right now, you know, with rising costs, that was that was something that a lot of people did bond over when it came to complaining about that. for example, one one reply that i thought was really funny was that i should be able to afford both avocado toast and a house, and that references the trope that, you know, millennials love avocado toast, and they'll never be able to buy a house if they keep buying avocado toast. but, you know, people were yearning for the days of, you know, cheaper chipotle bowls, cheaper concert tickets, cheaper ubers. one person was telling me, one person that i spoke with said

that it costs $100 to leave his house. so now as a joke. but yeah, you know, like with most millennials being over 30 now, they feel that they're not where they're supposed to be compared to their parents and that they were promised that if you work hard, then you can buy a house, you can have a good standard of living, and many of them are finding that to not be the case. >> many of them are. and one of our millennial segment producers here at morning joe, stasia, shared one of her complaints, saying, quote, i don't want a receipt texted or emailed to me. if i want a receipt, i'll get a paper one ali vitali, i think you are a resident millennial. i am any any complaints? all right. any millennial complaints from you? so many. this is your. >> send to the control room. i feel like this is my festivus moment, especially because when i was coming into the workforce, here's my complaint. there was this view that millennials were entitled to be there, but i never felt that. i always felt like the message was exactly

what sediba is talking about. if you work hard, that's how you'll ultimately be able to get ahead. and so, yeah, we're the generation that lived through everything from nine over 11 through the 2008 crash, the housing crisis, but then also high rise jeans, diet culture, the entitlement phrases that i was talking about in the workforce. so, sediba, can you talk about the sense of community that millennials might have felt like me reading your article, watching these responses, and maybe even watching this segment? >> right? it definitely feels like a lot of people are resonating with this and bonding about this. and, you know, nostalgia is so powerful, and many studies show that it can yield positive social and psychological benefits and help people, you know, maintain a sense of identity when the world feels chaotic. so a lot of people like one year, that always comes up when people talk, when millennials specifically talk about, you know, when things were great is or better is 2016 and people were bonding over the summer of 2016. you know, it was a summer when everyone was outside. the

parties were so great. everyone's dancing, you know, the music was good. it was the last year that rihanna dropped an album. it was the last year that frank ocean dropped an album, so that that year always comes up in pop culture and social media that millennials bond over as being a great time. bad bunny has a song called those days, which means 20 16in spanish. so, you know, people are reliving their the days when millennials were reliving the days when they were younger, like a lot of them were like younger than 30 and, and things were more affordable. >> you know. >> and. >> listening to saba and ali talking about millennials and the whole situation and their lives and everything like that. i was struck by the fact that millennials, according to my eyes and my ears, they're young. they're just starting out. what's the definition of nostalgia for a 28 year old walking down the street, not paying attention with a starbucks coffee in his or her hand and looking at the phone with the other. what's their future? what's nostalgia mean to them?

>> well. >> what's so touching about these these posts is some of them are genuine nostalgia in that they are. >> how can you have. >> nostalgia when you're 26? >> well, i mean, i'm a millennial and i'm 43, so millennials go from that, that kind of youthful end. my hair is your age, but i'm a but the rest of me is pure millennial, older geriatric millennial. i think it's called. so some of this is nostalgia for actual things that used to be. but what's really touching in this story of yours is that there's nostalgia for what will never. >> be for this generation. >> there's a kind of nostalgia. there's a muddy water song. you can't spend what you've never got. you can't lose what you've never had. there's a nostalgia of losing what they've never had. that idea of a home, that idea, i mean, so many, so many millennials are not getting married because they think they can't afford to be married. how many people in human history have not gotten married because they couldn't afford it? but now we're we're doing it. we're not having kids because they fear that. so i'm that that notion of

being nostalgic for what you never had. and it seems like people in your article are awakening to things that they've suffered in silence or suffered alone, and realizing that they're structural, realizing that other people share them in common. >> they're missing their parents lives, right? >> because they were promised. they were promised that you will have this as well. and they're realizing, wait, maybe we won't, you know? >> yeah. >> i, i really do think this piece and these answers sort of represent the issues of our time. new york times style reporter sadia hassan, thank you so much for bringing this to us. we appreciate it. great conversation. anand giridharadas, thank you as well. good to have you ahead. we're going to have some nostalgia for when eggs were cheaper, as many stores are experiencing shortages and restaurants are now passing the costs on to consumers. morning joe is coming consumers. morning joe is coming right if you have generalized myasthenia gravis,

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it, especially the strength that we're developing and developed over the last fairly short period of time, i would say really since the election, i think we'll be a great keeper of something that is very, very strong, very powerful and very, very good for the area, not just for israel, for the entire middle east. it's very important. >> okay, that was president trump yesterday after suggesting the united states should take control of gaza and permanently displace palestinians. we'll have more of those comments, as well as the bipartisan backlash to the president's proposal. also ahead, speaker mike johnson was asked flat out if the president has the authority to shut down government agencies without approval from congress. we'll play for you. his careful response. meanwhile, democrats continue to protest elon musk's

seemingly unchecked power within the trump administration. but republicans insist musk isn't in charge. they are. plus, the cia is now offering federal buyouts as the trump administration attempts to gut the government workforce. it comes as the fbi agents are suing the justice department, accusing the trump administration of politically motivated retribution. will go through all of that. we'll also bring you the latest from capitol hill, following key votes yesterday on two of the president's most controversial cabinet nominees. good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is wednesday, february 5th. with us we have the co-host of the fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics. he has a piece out right now on elon musk. we'll get to that. and the host of way too early, ali vitali joins us. we're going to start this morning with

president trump's brazen proposal for gaza. yesterday, the president announced the united states should seek control of the enclave and that the nearly 2 million palestinians living there should relocate to egypt or jordan, a move both countries have vehemently opposed. the president made the comment during a joint press conference with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the two leaders met at the white house yesterday, and it comes as negotiators are discussing the next phase of the israel-hamas ceasefire agreement, which is supposed to include more humanitarian aid and reconstruction supplies for the people of gaza. >> we should go to other countries of interest with humanitarian hearts, and there are many of them that want to do this and build various domains that will ultimately be occupied by the 1.8 million palestinians living in gaza, ending the death and destruction and, frankly, bad luck. this can be paid for

by neighboring countries of great wealth. it could be one, two, three, four, five, seven, eight, 12. it could be numerous sites, or it could be one large site. but the people will be able to live in comfort and peace. the u.s. will take over the gaza strip, and we will do a job with it, too. we'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site. level the site and get rid of the destroyed buildings. level it out. create an economic development that will supply unlimited numbers of jobs and housing for the people of the area. i envision a world, people living there, the world's people. i think you'll make that into an international, unbelievable place. i think the potential in the gaza strip is unbelievable, and i think the entire world, representatives

from all over the world will be there and they'll and they'll live there. palestinians also palestinians will live there. many people will live there. we have an opportunity to do something that could be phenomenal. and i don't want to be cute. i don't want to be a wise guy. but the riviera of the middle east, this could be something that could be so bad. this could be so magnificent. >> trump's comments have sent shockwaves throughout the region and here at home in saudi arabia, the country's foreign affairs ministry said its stance on the establishment of a palestinian state remains a firm, unwavering position. hamas released a statement rejecting trump's plans, calling his comments a recipe for creating chaos and tension in the region. meanwhile, nbc news caught up with several senators yesterday to ask them about what the president said. the first i

heard of it, i said. >> seems like there's. >> a few kinks in that slinky. >> we'll see what he meant. >> what do you. >> mean by that? >> well. >> it's i. >> don't. >> know if you know about. >> a slinky, but if it kinks, you can't use it anymore. i don't know how it would play out if what he said or what you all have said. i haven't seen the firsthand account, but obviously it's. >> not. going to happen. >> i think. >> that'd. >> be a tough place to be assigned if you're an american soldier. so yeah, we'll. >> see what the. >> arab world says. but, you know, that'd be problematic at many, many levels. >> i'm speechless. that's insane. >> i can't think of a. >> place on earth. that would welcome. >> american troops. >> less. >> and where any positive outcome is less likely. and why on. earth we would abandon decades of well-established. >> humanitarian programs. >> around the. >> world. >> and now. launch into one of the world's greatest. >> humanitarian challenges. >> i mean.

>> hey. >> we don't. yes. >> the united. states should not. >> take anybody's home. >> number two. >> us nation. >> building in. >> the. >> middle east. >> if you haven't learned anything from. 2001 to. >> 2025. >> you haven't been paying attention. we are. >> very. >> bad at that. >> all right. some bipartisan condemnation there. jonathan lemire, your latest reporting for the atlantic, references senator graham's response. it's entitled trump's wild plan for gaza. and you write in part this any direct u.s. intervention in gaza would fly in the face of trump's long standing desire to disengage from foreign entanglements. he began negotiations to withdraw u.s. forces from afghanistan, wants to slash aid to ukraine, and has threatened to abandon military positions in korea, europe and syria. and it may face pushback at home from some usually reliable allies. i think that would be an interesting proposal, senator lindsey graham

told reporters on capitol hill after trump spoke. we'll see what our arab friends say about that. i think most south carolinians would probably not be excited about sending americans to take over gaza. it might be problematic. and jonathan lamir, thom tillis, i think, had the quote of the day a few kinks in the slinky. >> yeah, that's a new one. i'm not aware of that particular phrase, but it does. but it works. we'll run with it this morning. but yeah, it is works. it is breathtakingly audacious proposal here from donald trump, one that was indeed met with a lot of pushback immediately. first, as noted, this flies in the face of how trump views foreign policy. he wants to pull back u.s. engagement. and yesterday he was asked repeatedly whether or not u.s. troops would be sent to gaza to help secure it while it's being rebuilt. he did not rule that out. this, of course, is a conflict that has been in gaza. there's decades in the making, a contested land since israel's

creation in 1948. this is the first time a u.s. president has suggested something like this, with the u.s. being an occupying force. we have seen that saudi arabia, as you just said already, which is seemingly close to normalizing relations with israel, has already said, we're not going to do this. and that is just a preview of what is expected to be the reaction from throughout the arab world, who want to see the palestinians get their own state, who don't want to be taking palestinian refugees into their own country, who don't want to hand israel, potentially, that territory. it's certainly a significant win for prime minister netanyahu. were this to happen, the right wing elements in his and his coalition want to move in both on gaza and, of course, the west bank. and we also this is donald trump, the white house aide told me last night, who does feel emboldened with with a swagger, if you will, in this second term, believing that he can get a big deal done. few would be bigger than this, even though part of this might even be a real estate transaction,

something that he has considered in the past. talking about gaza's beachfront property, even the riviera of the middle east. for much, much more on this, let's bring in president emeritus of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. he is author of the weekly newsletter home and away, which is, of course, available on substack, as well as retired cia officer marc polymeropoulos. he is an nbc news security and intelligence analyst. richard, let's start with you. i mean, your reaction, it is it is hard to know at a time whether how seriously to take this. is this something is donald trump actually suggesting sending military troops to the middle east, to gaza, or is this the beginning of some sort of negotiation, an extreme position, if you will, perhaps to apply pressure on the region allows him to maybe dial it back a little bit to get something done, but even that seems so far fetched. >> it seems far fetched. you know, we're all used to the idea of an opening bid. and so one of my first reactions was to try to

play this out. where could this lead? >> you've got. >> for example, the king. >> of jordan showing up. >> in washington. >> in a few days. >> one of the dangers. >> is that donald trump actually tries to follow this. >> up puts. >> enormous pressure on countries. >> like jordan. >> which are already. >> vulnerable. >> threatens to remove what? the $1.7 billion in aid. so i worry that. >> this is a nonstarter. >> let me just say that with the palestinians, jonathan, let's just posit that. this is going to be unacceptable to the palestinians. the question. >> is, is there. >> follow up? does this cause crises. >> in jordan? >> right? >> does this. >> cause crises in egypt? >> does this encourage some of the worst elements in israel? you know, it's one. >> thing to think. >> big about the middle east. when i thought the trump administration might think big about the middle east, i assumed it was to maybe. press bibi to go in the direction of some type of a palestinian state, which, among other things, would bring the saudis on board and so forth. this is thinking big, big, but in a way that's totally at odds with the history and political realities of the region. so it makes. me think, one, what you mentioned, the

swagger. >> there's a. >> grandiosity to this, as though. history doesn't matter. i think there's a little bit of that here that in a sense, the donald trump is not is not bounded by history. and also it raises fundamental questions. and you're closer to it than i am, as is ali about the policy process. you could not have. >> a rigorous. >> policy process. >> filled. >> with experts on the middle. >> east and come. >> up with this proposal. >> there is. >> no way you could get. >> from there to where we now are. >> and as we see these images here of the devastation in gaza, 15 months of conflict, but this is still home to 2.2 million people. and donald trump is talking about displacement on just a staggering scale. >> i've heard a lot of different words about this, but the ones that stand out to me is this is impossible. this will never happen. maybe he doesn't mean it. and i would like to try and put a pause on that thinking to an extent, because i think we've learned by now and a lot of what we talked about here on morning

joe during the campaign is donald trump does mean it. he means it. this is a man who said during the campaign he would pardon january 6th rioters, and he has done so. this is a man who said that he would be your retribution and threatened retribution to people who worked on cases against him. that is happening right now in the fbi. let's stop surmising as to whether or not he means it, because he means it. okay, so marc polymeropoulos, my question to you is what will the promotion of this idea do to the state of affairs in the region? >> right. mika. and so i think every cia station chief in the middle east woke up this morning with a migraine headache because there's a potential for a generational counterterrorism nightmare here. you have to look at the words that donald trump used yesterday, quote, take over gaza, own gaza. these are

triggering mechanisms for islamic extremist groups. remember osama bin laden's biggest beef with the united states decades ago was the us troop presence in saudi arabia, al-qaida in iraq, same thing, the insurgency based on us troops in iraq. so this kind of language only is going to galvanize groups that want to kill americans. and if i was in the cia and is still in the cia and the counterterrorism community, i'd be monitoring the islamic extremist forums, because this is just a tremendous own goal. and i worry that even if these are just words, as richard said, perhaps part of some strange negotiating gambit, americans might be less safe now, and i can't imagine anybody in the cia or the state department who would have advocated this approach. >> to talk about the cease fire agreement in place. i mean, there are hostages still due to come home. we are watching these reunions. they're incredibly emotional. i know president trump is very much into seeing these reunions and positive things like that happening, hoping to take credit for them

and things like that. what could these comments and this intention, due to the cease fire agreement that's in place right now? >> well, sure, mika, because there's a delicate balance that's going on right now, and we're trying to get through this phase one, perhaps to get to phase two. but there are still hostages who need to be released. and so if you're hamas right now and you hear these comments, you know, how do you even if there is some, you know, distrust in the past, but how do you see the us as an interlocutor that you can agree with when they're saying all of the palestinians have to be removed from the gaza strip with all of this kind of fanciful language. so, you know, even this kind of strange rhetoric from trump could, could really alter a very delicate negotiating pattern right now, which has seen hostages released. more are supposed to come this weekend. we'll see. >> all right, nbc news, security and intelligence analyst marc polymeropoulos, thank you very

much for coming on the show this morning. let's go live to tel aviv, israel. nbc news correspondent yasmin vossoughian is standing by there. yasmin, what's the reaction that you're hearing so far? >> i think, mika, it's important to be frank about the situation here in the middle east, and it feels as if president trump has literally dropped a nuclear bomb on the middle east. lemire is right in that donald trump campaigned on getting the united states out of foreign wars. it feels as if, after yesterday evening, standing aside prime minister bibi netanyahu, that donald trump may very well have gotten the united states into another war. this is the type of rhetoric that will unite, that can feasibly unite the middle east, right? we have heard from mbs of saudi arabia denouncing what donald trump has said. we have heard, obviously, from islamic militants, from the palestinian authority to islamic

jihad to hamas, who have all understandably denounced what donald trump has said. we have heard iran denouncing what donald trump has said. even from egypt and the foreign minister, not necessarily directly addressing, but instead saying we will continue to rebuild gaza. as richard mentioned, we know that the jordanian king will be heading to washington on february 11th, the president of egypt heading to washington thursday as well. obviously, donald trump wanting to bring key players to try and put this plan into motion. but across the middle east, there is a real deep dissatisfaction and anger with what president trump is proposing. and yet, if you look to the right wing of the israeli government, they, in fact, are celebrating this notion of the united states taking over gaza.

but it's the israeli citizens that i've spoken to here in tel aviv and the palestinians in gaza, who are a team on the ground, have spoken to as well, who also think this idea is out of the realm of possibility and not something anyone wants for real, lasting peace. let's take a listen to them, mika, and then we'll talk on the other side. >> we can't leave our homes. how we can. how we. how you dare. how dare you to. say you should leave your homes? we can't, we can't. this. this is palestine. and we palestinians are the only ones who. have the right to. >> to live. >> here and. >> never to leave it. we will never leave our town palestine. for us, this is never changing. >> i mean, there. >> are people live there. there is. >> gazan civilians. >> who lives in gaza. i don't understand. >> the idea. >> of just taking over. >> richard is right. is that it feels as if donald trump is forgetting about history. one of the reasons why hamas came into

power in 2006 is because hamas essentially promised infrastructure, right? they promised schooling, they promised food, they promised aid. the person, the people, the organizations, the country that will win the hearts and the minds, for instance, of the palestinians remaining on their land, will be the people that are providing them with the infrastructure, the aid, the food, the water that they desperately need and the infrastructure, for instance, to rebuild. i just want to say one final thing. right, as we were looking to los angeles and the wildfires that happened there in the palisades, you saw major destruction and people were incredibly upset over losing their personal belongings and their homes. but it was really about the community, right? the churches, the schools, the coffee shops in which so many of them convene. these gazans have walked, marched, driven thousands of miles right back to their homes in north gaza after the cease fire to commune in rubble, because this is their homeland, this is where they want to remain, not because of the structures in which they have lived in mecca, but because

of the community. they have been surrounded by the families and the people they know. and that, it seems, is something that is being lost by both the president of the united states, along with prime minister bibi netanyahu. mika. >> nbc's yasmin vossoughian, thank you so much for your coverage live from tel aviv. we appreciate it. and before we go to break, ali vitali, just back on capitol hill, are you getting a sense from your sources, your contacts there that especially republicans, are they still standing behind this president, especially given the judgment on this issue, this issue, this judgment on this issue is potentially extremely dangerous? >> there are clear ripple effects. yasmin is talking about some of them. i do think that we're now getting a little bit of a clearer sense, too, of what israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu was talking about when he said just a day or so ago, before meeting with trump, that there was going to be conversations about remaking the map. it's a reminder of the long standing and close relationship

that netanyahu and trump have enjoyed over the course of these last many years. on capitol hill, we've heard bipartisan condemnation of what we heard from the president there. but it strikes me, and i want your take on this, because we did the 2016 campaign together. when tim kaine talks about this being a deranged idea, but then also brings up nation building, harkening back to the wars in afghanistan and iraq. it strikes me that trump speaking so hawkishly he talks like a hawk, but he doesn't always walk like a hawk, and he has made it a mission to pull troops out of american war zones. he was critical of the iraq war. does this strike you as as seemingly out of step with the way that trump has talked about potential use of u.s. military troops? >> yeah. on that 2016 campaign, he vowed to end the so-called forever wars, that he said, that he tapped into the real frustration in the u.s. about the everlasting presence in afghanistan and iraq. although we should note that he did say

that the u.s. went in, the mistake they made was they didn't take the oil. in this case, it seems like he's trying to take the beachfront property. richard. it also, this comes as a moment, though, where the middle east is a seismic moment already. right? the aftermath of october 7th and that terror attack has left hamas devastated, gaza in ruins. but israel's counter strike also took out hezbollah and lebanon. we've seen the collapse of syria. we have seen iran at its weakest moment in decades. there was an opportunity here for a big move. i'm not sure this was that move. >> i'm not sure this was that move at all. jonathan. it takes iran off the hook. and if. >> we've made ourselves. >> the issue, we had a moment in the middle. >> east where iran was on its. >> heels, as you know, assad was going from syria. opportunities in lebanon. >> first phase of the cease fire between israel. >> and hamas. >> and what are we talking about. >> this morning? plans for the middle east that. >> are nonstarters. >> unsatisfying, rejected by palestinians and. could cause the destabilization of the

throne. in jordan. so that's what we've done. we've changed the conversation in a way that that that doesn't make sense. we've made. ourselves the, the issue. it's not clear to me why. also, one other thing, and i think. >> yasmin was getting. >> at it in. >> israel. >> this will set a precedent. this sets the precedent of what's known as transfer. the answer to the palestinian problem is not something that gives palestinians a. >> home of their. >> own, but. >> it denies. >> them one first gaza, then the west bank. this is a radical idea that the israeli right will end with. this is not a peace process. >> this potentially. >> sets in motion the end of what has been a peace process. >> all right. and again, talking like a war hawk is one way of looking at it. what i heard more was more like a developer of beachfront property with no sense or mention of the war inducing side effects of this. we'll continue to cover this. there's much more still ahead on morning joe, as the trump

administration looks to slash the federal workforce. we've learned tens of thousands of government employees are lining up to take a buyout offer. plus, there's a new legal fight between the fbi and the justice department. we're going to dig into the two new lawsuits claiming agents are being targeted for retribution. and what exactly is elon musk doing and why does he have so much power? we'll ask that question. morning joe is back in 90s. >> it's a family. >> in my eyes. their dry, uncomfortable, looking for extra hydration. now there's blink neutral tears. it works differently than drops. blink neutral tears is a once daily supplement clinically proven to hydrate from within, helping your eyes produce more of their own tears. to promote lasting, continuous relief. you'll feel day after day. try blink neutral tears a different way to support

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plus free shipping. >> on all. >> bundles at live human.com. >> a spokesperson for the office of personnel management says that more than 20,000 federal employees have accepted the buyout offer put forward by the trump administration. the opm office says the number of resignations has been rapidly growing ahead of tomorrow's deadline. unions representing government employees have filed a lawsuit to block the plan, calling the buyout offer arbitrary and capricious, saying it violates federal law. they also allege the administration cannot guarantee the plan will be funded, and that it has failed to consider the consequences of mass resignations and how it may affect the government's ability to function. some might say they have considered that, actually. we also learned the cia is now offering those buyouts to some

of its workforce. under the offer, federal employees can resign and still receive roughly eight months of pay and benefits. but some cia workers, including those handling high priority tasks, will not be eligible. a spokesperson for the agency says director john ratcliffe is moving swiftly to ensure the cia workforce is responsive to the administration's national security priorities. meanwhile, fbi agents have filed two new lawsuits pushing back against the justice department amid growing concerns about a trump administration purge within the bureau. the lawsuits allege agents are being targeted for politically motivated retribution after employees were asked to fill out surveys about their role in various january 6th criminal cases. the agents are calling for a judge to stop the publication of any list of

employees who worked on those cases. nbc news has learned. the fbi turned over a list of agents involved in january 6th cases to the justice department, but it includes identification numbers instead of names. let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, who has been reporting on these lawsuits. so, ken, how many agents are suing and what are the next steps? can they can they keep their jobs in this environment? >> good morning mika. well, that's the big question right now. there's about nine or so agents suing anonymously in each one of these class action lawsuits. and the second one was also brought by the fbi agents association. but they say they represent a class of as many as 6000 people who were involved with these january 6th cases. and i think one of the really interesting and important things that happened yesterday was more evidence of quiet resistance by

the acting fbi leadership, including acting director brian driscoll, who was appointed by the trump administration. you know, they were struggling over in recent days about whether they would even comply with this directive to provide the names to the justice department of all the agents and personnel who worked on january 6th cases, they thought it was inappropriate, but at the end of the day, their office of general counsel told them, look, this is a lawful order. we work for the justice department. we have to do it. but at the end of the day, he did not turn over a list of names. now he turned over employee numbers. and of course, the justice department can match those employee numbers with the payroll that they have at their disposal. but what they did by doing this was ensure that there is no master list of january 6th agents floating around that could be released, because that is the main allegation in these lawsuits. and the thing they're most concerned about, they can't prevent the justice department from creating lists of employees who worked on particular cases. what they're concerned about is the release of the names. and what they say is, look, this is

a retribution purge. it's very obvious, based on the comments that members of the administration have made and that donald trump has made. and they said they're concerned that the real intent here is to release the names of these agents. they're already seeing some of these felons who were pardoned by donald trump, who committed violence on january 6th, posting the names of fbi agents on social media or on the dark web. and they say this is a major security concern. but stepping back, i mean, what hasn't happened yet is any firings beyond the eight people, the eight senior executives that we reported on a couple of days ago. so we're in a bit of a standoff right now. the fbi has managed to push back on what did seem like a plan for mass firings. whether they will ultimately be successful remains to be seen, but it's a reminder that the fbi is not usaid. the fbi has leverage. donald trump needs the fbi. they're protecting this country from terrorist attacks. they're enforcing the law. and if they were to get rid of even a large number of the agents that were involved in january 6th, that is

a huge part of the counterterrorism section of the fbi, the people that we most need at this moment when the threat from isis and as you guys articulated in the last segment, is only rising. >> guys. >> coming up, we'll go live to capitol hill, where republican senators are falling in line to back. president trump's cabinet picks an update on where things stand today. when morning joe comes right back. >> consumer cellular. >> ranked number one in network coverage and customer satisfaction. hi. >> my friend linda. >> has you guys and gets. >> way better. coverage than i do. >> sounds like linda has you beat. >> only in coverage. >> and plans. >> start at $20. >> okay. >> price to get your second month free when you switch to consumer cellular. >> i feel. >> like new sunglasses. >> like a. >> brand new. >> pair of. >> jeans.

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>> we are all. >> watching and waiting to see who is going to hold the line. >> don't miss the weekends, saturday, and sunday mornings at. >> 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> we do have major developments out of washington. have we already sort of crossed a rubicon in terms of who we are as a country and what the rule of law is? america is listening to you right now, thinking about what might have been. people hearing you, talking about the pushback and the fight and that mattering. what does that mean in practical terms? what they're doing to immigrants is something they say they're going to do every day. what's democratic strategy for trying to take that on? we've got a free press, a free people, an organized political opposition that represents fully half the country. so here we go. it's on. >> an official memo says nearly the entire global workforce of usaid will be placed on administrative leave by friday. the online posting says there would be exceptions for people responsible for mission critical functions. this comes after the agency's acting chief human capital officer was pushed out

for refusing to place employees on leave yesterday. so the memo came from pete morocco, who secretary of state marco rubio, empowered to review the work done by usaid. morocco held several national security positions during the first trump administration, including at the agency. but multiple sources tell nbc news he was ultimately pushed out of office. online sleuths have also identified morocco as being among the rioters who stormed the capitol on january 6th. legal experts say the president does not have authority to abolish a federal agency created by congress. but in a letter to lawmakers, secretary rubio cited a law requiring the executive branch notify and consult with congress on any proposed reorganization, which could signal a potential loophole. when asked about trump's authority to shut down

government agencies, house speaker mike johnson had this to say. >> the details it all depends on the details. we are. well, look what they're doing with usaid is an analysis of the expenditures. and as you've seen, there have been a lot of abuses in that agency. so they'll be an appropriate action, i think, for congress to take. but we haven't yet sorted out exactly what's happening. >> with it. >> but yes or no. >> does trump have. >> the authority to shut down government agencies without congress? >> yes or no? if it's not. >> that simple, because if there are executive branch agencies, if they're executive branch agencies, the executive is in charge of them. congress funds them. but there are important, you know, questions to be asked about all the parameters of that. so i don't have all the answers. an easy answer. >> so you've got republicans seemingly supporting everything that is happening here, or at least muddling the message so they don't have to answer the question. i want to point out

the man who's in charge of basically breaking down usaid, pete morocco. so he was there during this. we have video for you of that, the january 6th riot. he's he's in there meandering among the rioters. i don't know if he actually participated, but he was there as these rioters committed countless criminal acts against our capitol, against the peaceful transition of power, against our capitol police officers, threatening our lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. this man tasked with dismantling usaid, which is the humanitarian arm of the government, but also usaid, serves a major foreign policy function as well, keeping us tapped in to dangerous places. the man who was meandering among those people is tasked with

breaking down something that has taken decades to build up a presence around the world that makes america greater and strong. and so while that's happening, there are other things to cover as well. and what we're going to try and do here is stay on top of everything, because there is an onslaught of signals and a lot of noise. but i thought that was worth pointing out. coming up, our next guest says democrats are asleep at the switch. ed luce is taking the party to task for its muted response as president trump tears up america's rulebook. that conversation is straight ahead on morning joe. >> for gentle, dependable constipation relief, try seneca. it works differently than other laxatives because it's made from the senate plant, a natural vegetable. laxative ingredient. gentle, dependable. seneca. also

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carries on like this, democrats will have no choice but to send him a strongly worded letter to claim that america's minority party is too punch drunk to get its act together would be charitable. not being parliamentary, the u.s. lacks an opposition leader to spearhead the fight back. the system's closest approximation, chuck schumer, the senate minority leader, is following the rules of a vanished age. it's not as if schumer is being outshone by colleagues. a few days after trump's inauguration, hakeem jeffries, who's the democratic leader in the house of representatives, posted, president's come and presidents go through it all. god is still on the throne. that is as may be, but fatalism has no track record of stopping revolutions. it's a bleak view that you give here, and it's one that makes this idea of democrats lacking a message seem like a very quaint calculus of what's actually going on here within this party. >> yeah. >> i think that we all, at some level in our brains, have the sinclair lewis novel. it can't happen here in our head. we have

that sort of deeply ingrained complacency. and not only can it happening happen here, it is happening here. and i don't think that chuck schumer, hakeem jeffries and other leaders, we've yet to see what ken martin will be like as a dnc chair. i don't think they've really taken that on board. yesterday, senate minority leader schumer and jeffries announced they'd have a stop the steal bill to prevent musk from taking control of federal payment system. this is something that's already illegal, and it's a bill that would stand no chance of passing. so it's a kind of gimmickry that we'd have in a normal time of politics. this is a coup that's happening. it is happening here. it's happening now. strategies based on winning the midterm elections 21 months from now could be completely hypothetical. if they carry on at the speed they're going and with the intention they are signaling to us every single day. so i think this requires a

far more radical and drastic sort of rethink of what the democrats democratic strategy should be. >> coming up, a live look at business before the bell. we'll get an update from cnbc on what's driving the day on wall street. morning joe is back in a moment. >> billy joe shot a man while robbing his castle. robbers who robbing his castle. robbers who took the money and run. go (vo) if you're only maxing out a 401k, you can add a robinhood ira with a 3% contribution boost. (nasa pilot vo) roger that. (vo) robinhood gold gives you an instant 3% match on your annual ira contributions. ♪ four active ingredients that get four active ingredients that get to work fast. guest of honor: everyone's here for me!

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>> find grace in this moment? >> i've been stuck in mexico for. >> six months. >> come on. >> why do you. >> want. >> to go back to america. >> so bad? >> you've been. >> bouncing around that. >> embassy for months, bro. >> look, i'm palestinian, and. >> i got an asylum hearing. >> coming up in houston that i've been waiting for. >> for 22 years. >> just come to terms with the fact. you're mexican now. feliz cumpleanos. >> oh.

>> where are you. >> going. >> with me? go. >> do you know how much trouble. >> you. >> make for yourself? >> man, i missed. >> america. >> but it. >> seems like everyone's doing well without me. you are broke. >> you don't have. >> a. >> job, and your. >> life is. >> i should. >> slap you with this knife in your face, bro. >> there's just this. >> that was a. look at season two of the netflix series titled mo. the show follows a palestinian immigrant, mo najjar, living in houston as he traverses life in america as an undocumented immigrant with the dream of one day returning home. season two opens with mo stuck in mexico as he works to cross a southern border to get back to texas so he can make his scheduled asylum hearing. and joining us now, the co-creator, executive producer, writer and star of mo mo amer, he's also directed several of the episodes in season two, including the

finale. mo, thank you so much for being with us this morning. so let's, you know, we pick up our hero, if you will, in mexico. so remind viewers as to what led him there and where he hopes to go next. >> well, he ends up getting. >> stuck in mexico. >> essentially deporting himself accidentally. but the whole idea was. >> is, you know. >> to see what it takes to actually come. >> back into america. i think i think the. >> public or americans. really feel like it's very. >> easy to actually. >> cross the border and, and go through the immigration process and get your citizenship when it's actually. >> a. >> really grueling process. it takes quite some time to go through the immigration system itself. and that was the idea behind that is essentially showing the planes and trains and automobiles of a refugee, right. what it takes, and also highlighting how privileged our main character is, although he's a refugee in america, although he's an asylee in the system, in the in the grand scheme of things, he's still very privileged in, in his status. >> so tell us about how you

pulled from such hot topics like hot button issues with both immigration. but of course, everything that's been happening in gaza, how did you mix in some very serious subjects into a show that at times could be pretty comedic? >> no, of course it is. it is a comedy, but you might be fooled if you watch the show a little bit, but it comes with the with my background, you know, it's my life, it's my experience. so definitely pulled from that and made sure to keep the show grounded. and that's how what was my entire approach throughout, you know, writing season two. >> you were born. >> in kuwait. >> you have your life. >> keeps hitting into. >> history and. >> certainly american politics. >> talk to us about. >> this very different. >> time than it was in. >> 2022, very different america. >> but a. >> lot of the topics you talk about on this show really. >> do need. >> a human perspective. so talk to us about that. >> right. so again, you mentioned timing as well. like and everything. like for me i've always been palestinian. it's not you know i'm a palestinian

american. i've known these things to be an issue for quite some time. and now it's all completely bubbled to the surface and everyone is talking about it. so quite frankly, like the narrative of the show didn't really change much, unfortunately. i wish we were talking about something else. and that's the point of the show is, is giving you this kind of hope and this idea of hope and, and what we can actually accomplish by understanding more of each other to really drive this conversation forward instead of just having you said she said, you said, you know, conversations. >> yes. let's take a look at a clip from the show where your character discusses recently being detained by ice. >> yeah, come to america. they said, it's going to be great. they said, live the dream. they said, hey, what's up? what's up bro? what's up bro? what's up? salam salam.

>> man they really got you bro. bro, they could have gave you airtime. instead they give you this thing that vibrates when your table is ready at chili's. >> yeah. thank you. i know i got to be really thoughtful about hiding it. >> or you. >> could just lean into it, you know, own it, or they get that whole. >> bedazzled or something. oh, that's a good idea. bedazzle. yeah. i'll get a little gemstones, a little hot glue gun. what am i in fifth grade? >> oh. >> shut up. >> how the hell did they slap it on anyway? >> oh, man. the judge deported me and i was like, what did you do? and i just flipped the table. five ice agents grabbed me and dragged me in. finally, they pinned me down and put on his ankle bracelet. you cried, didn't you? like a baby? i cried like a damn baby. >> laughs here on set as we as we heard that. so tell us a little bit about the cast, but also the locations you filmed across a number of different countries. >> oh yeah. well, first we filmed in houston, texas, which is, i believe, like one of the most fantastic cities in america, the most diverse city in america. the neighborhood i grew up in is nine languages spoken in it. and it's my love letter to houston as well. but we also filmed the palestine

elements in malta, but also was a lot of the footage from my actual village in the west bank in berlin. so it's in mexico city. of course we had we had to go to mexico city, right? yeah. to film the first, you know, the whole opening of the season and. yeah. >> all right. well, season two of mo streaming right now on netflix. check it out. also, mo's new nationwide comedy tour, el oso palestino, begins later this month. co-creator, executive producer, director and star mo amer, thank you so much for joining us this morning. >> thank you. i would like to be addressed as the palestinian bear. from now on. >> we will add that to the notes for your next appearance. thank you again and we'll be right you again and we'll be right back with more morning joe. stamps.com gives you a lot of flexibility. (♪♪) print postage and schedule free carrier pickups on your time. (♪♪) start your risk-free trial today

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(♪♪) hello, oh.... it'll be there in a couple of years. honey, they're here. how much longer? uh, it's going to be a while. wait. ah, wait. (music dies down) (clock ticking) (clock ticking) wait. (♪♪) the hour. welcome to the fourth hour of morning joe. it is 6

a.m. on the west coast, 9 a.m. in the east. we have a lot to get to this hour, so let's dive right in. president trump announced a brazen proposal for gaza, saying the u.s. should take control of the enclave and that the nearly 2 million palestinians living there should relocate this as the entire global workforce of usaid is expected to be placed on administrative leave by friday. we have two reports for you this morning, starting with nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander. >> the u.s. will take over the gaza strip. >> in stunning remarks about one of the world's most volatile regions, president trump endorsed the relocation. of the entire population of gaza. more than 2 million palestinians who call the war ravaged territory home, insisting. >> the united. states should. >> take it over. >> and redevelop. >> the area. >> everybody i've spoken to loves the idea of the united

% land. >> hosting israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu at the white house, the president said palestinians should. >> be taken in. by countries. >> like egypt and jordan, but many. >> gazans do. >> not want to leave, and neighboring. >> arab. >> countries have repeatedly said they will not. >> take them in. >> nbc's kelly o'donnell pressed. >> the president about. >> the proposed. u.s. takeover of. >> a sovereign territory. >> what authority would allow you to do that? are you talking about a permanent occupation there? redevelopment. >> i do see a long term ownership position, and i see it bringing great stability to that part of the middle east and maybe the entire middle east. >> later, when asked, president. >> trump did not. rule out deploying. >> u.s. troops to gaza. >> if it's necessary, we'll do that. >> it's a remarkable reversal. >> for. >> president trump, who has vowed. >> to stop endless wars in the middle east. >> it is not the duty of u.s. troops to solve ancient conflicts in faraway lands. >> the president.

>> framing gaza as a real. >> estate opportunity. >> the riviera of the middle east. this could be so magnificent. we'll make sure that it's done. world class. >> netanyahu saying the. >> president's idea is. worth considering. i think it's something that could change history. but the idea was. >> largely met. >> with. skepticism from both parties. >> that's insane. >> i can't think of a place. >> on earth that would welcome. >> american troops. >> less, and where. >> any positive. outcome is less likely. >> we'll. >> see what the arab world says. >> but, you know, that would be problematic at. >> many. >> many levels. >> in a. >> surprising move overnight, the. >> u.s. agency. >> for international development declaring almost all direct hires around the world. >> will be. >> placed on administrative leave this week. it comes after days of attacks by the trump administration, which has crippled the group's mission to provide global humanitarian relief, including food and medicine. also overnight, in another move to scale back the

federal government, the. central intelligence agency. >> becoming the latest. >> agency to offer buyouts to its workers. legal experts warning federal workers not to accept the offers, calling them legally dubious, adding that congress has not authorized funding to pay for them. it's all a continuation of the government overhaul steered by elon musk, the billionaire sidekick of donald trump. >> there's going to be. a contest here about who's. >> really in charge. >> democrats are worried about. >> musk and. >> a. >> small team of. >> tech experts. >> from. >> his private companies. >> getting access to. >> government computers and systems. >> but in a letter to lawmakers. >> a treasury department. official said. >> tech executives working with doge. will have a, quote read only access. >> to. those systems. >> elon is. >> a big part of this, so i'm encouraging him to continue digging because we need those that information. as of yesterday, more than 20,000 federal workers are taking part in a buyout program modeled by musk, according to the office of

personnel management. but democrats argue the. billionaire's access is unauthorized and possibly unlawful. we're concerned about. >> how the whole. >> process works. >> and ultimately. the buck falls with. >> donald trump. capitol hill republicans do not seem concerned that trump may be usurping their authority. in fact, they are embracing it. i do think they have the right to review funding and how those decisions are made and what priorities are being funded. >> that deference to trump extends to his most. >> controversial administration picks. >> both robert f kennedy jr. >> his pick for health. and human. >> services secretary. and tulsi gabbard, his. >> choice as. >> director of. >> national intelligence. >> squeaked through. committee votes. >> both are. >> expected to win. confirmation on. >> the. >> senate floor. >> that was nbc's ryan nobles with that report. let's now bring in nbc news white house correspondent vaughn hillyard, who is reporting this morning from capitol hill. vaughn. vaughn. vaughn. so many choices here. so much news going on.

give us the reaction a little more from capitol hill to president trump's outlandish plan about gaza. also, though this this seemingly republican compliance both to controversial cabinet picks, but also the trump mosque assault on the federal government itself. >> right, jonathan? our colleague frank thorpe up here on capitol hill was for here on late into the night for pam bondi's confirmation as attorney general and tracked down some senators when the news out of the white house, about three miles away was coming, that donald trump was suggesting that the u.s. should take over the gaza strip. and some of that sound that you heard from the likes of lindsey graham and chris was the immediate reaction in real time. we've also heard from josh hawley, though we've heard from rand paul, suggesting that that is antithetical to the idea of america first. not only did donald trump campaign on ensuring that the us was not involved in the middle east, in making sure that us troops were not on the ground. this is also

really just a, i think, an extension of what we have seen from the last two weeks in terms of his domestic policy agenda, in effectively throwing out the normal governing structure and now extending that to us diplomacy, or i guess i don't know if diplomacy is the right word in this situation, a direct idea of taking over a sovereign piece of land where millions of individuals reside. this is, i think, a moment when you're looking, jonathan, for a president trump at a at a moment in which he has handed the keys, by and large, to elon musk. i think usaid is a very good example of the ramifications of somebody who promised to deconstruct the so-called administrative state. the usaid has just got off the phone with a foreign service officer directly working on the ukraine mission for the united states. there are 200 plus individuals, u.s. personnel from usaid on the

ground. and the concern from this foreign service officer was the immediate repercussions to the us's efforts to prop up the energy grid system in ukraine here in the dead of winter, but also the seed and fertilizer. the us plays an important role during the war in terms of helping the ukraine agricultural industry from remaining intact, and the seeds are set to go into the ground here in the coming weeks. and you're talking about potentially global, not only global food shortage, but the immediate impact on ukrainians that are still in the midst of war. i think the extent of, you know, of paid administrative leave. it's not just the us workers here at home, but it is also the ramifications that extend so far beyond. and as elon musk has suggested over just these last days, usaid is just the beginning. they are looking to go into other agencies and departments and effectively do the same thing. >> so, vaughn, i'm curious about the republicans that you are

covering. we heard there from senator john thune, whether it be elon musk or what's happening at usaid or at the fbi, or even the comments on foreign policy about redeveloping gaza. are you getting nothing from them back, like even visually or behind the scenes? no sense of concern, i think of senator thune. i think of dave mccormick, who served roger wicker, these many of, these are public servants who've been around for a while. and these are men who know when something is not normal. are you getting any of that from them? >> no, not at this point in time. but in about half an hour, all of those republican senators are going to be making their way back here to the senate offices. and i was messaging with some colleagues last night in the immediate aftermath of those comments from the president, that today is going to be quite something, because running through these halls the last couple of days, talking to

republican senators from john cornyn to thom tillis, individuals that were sometimes openly skeptical of the president's use of executive power, they said that they didn't mind the influence that elon musk had across the departments and agencies. and as thom tillis, i said, have you gone to the white house with any concerns about elon musk and doj's access to the treasury payment system, for instance? and he goes, why would i call up the white house if i don't have any concerns? and i think that that is where the comments last night, mika, were so stunning because by and large, he has not faced any republican dissent. but this, this is this goes beyond the pale of shutting down a government agency. this goes to putting u.s. men and women in service onto the front lines in a very vulnerable position. >> yeah, they did speak out about the gaza plan for sure. nbc news white house correspondent vaughn hillyard, thank you very much for being on this morning. joining us now, we have member of the new york times editorial board, mara gay,

former msnbc host and contributor to washington monthly, chris matthews. chris, i'll start with you. i'm yeah, i yeah. so i'm curious how you're feeling right now about everything. >> well, what. >> you and john. >> has been. >> saying since the. >> early this morning. >> i think it's. >> the. >> craziest idea i've ever. >> heard in. >> my life. >> 2 million. people living in gaza. >> a problem that israel has. and now. >> we're going to have. >> we want to own gaza. >> we want to. >> take those 2 million. >> people and somehow lure. >> them to go to. >> jordan or to egypt. >> neither of those. countries want them. >> imagine jordan. >> it's already overwhelmed with 60% of its country. >> are are meds have come from. >> the palestinian areas. >> they don't. >> need any more trouble. >> they don't need. >> hamas in. >> their country. hamas. >> hamas is not going to move to egypt. >> and to. >> jordan and destroy. >> those countries. >> oh, by the way, it's also going to offer. a new hospitality center along the mediterranean. >> i mean. >> give me a break. hamas is not

going to be good. wherever he goes. it's going. >> to continue. >> to be trouble. wherever it goes and wherever it goes, it's going to probably topple. >> the government. >> and for the president. to say, we won't use troops, of course we'll use imagine american service people's families realizing that their son. >> or daughter. >> has been. >> sent to gaza. >> right in the middle. >> of the mideast fighting. >> we have avoided wars over. >> there in. >> 48, 56, 67, 73. now we're. >> getting. >> right into the israeli arab war. right in the middle of it. we're taking sides. >> with israel. >> against the arabs. in in gaza. and we're telling them to. >> leave like they're. >> an indigenous population in. >> the. >> united states. >> back in the 19th century. >> we're going to. move them out. >> move to. >> some other. >> place against their will. >> it's horrible. >> and it's. >> going to be. >> a war. >> and i. don't understand. >> why he's. >> doing this. i think. >> it's the wackiest idea. hard to say. >> he's ever come up with. >> so one thought senator chris murphy was talking earlier in

our show is that this is a distraction. i would meld what you're saying with what he's saying and saying this is amusing concept. he's come up with beachfront property, something well within his purview of interest. and the way he would talk about something like that, that could have immediate consequences to the immediate situation, the cease fire that's going on. but i also agree it could be a distraction to what is going on right now in our government. and, chris, i'll follow up with you. and then i want to hear from mara gay lamar. you can take it tomorrow. about the folks who are being told they're immediately on leave as of friday at usaid. and the fbi agents who investigated jan six right now in the fight for their careers, some of them suing. >> well. >> you know, the. >> idea. >> of getting. >> rid of. >> aid is awful. >> our foreign aid programs. >> like pepfar. >> fighting aids in. >> africa, where i served for a

couple. >> of. >> years. >> the peace. >> corps is. >> extraordinarily popular. >> it's one of the good things we do in the world. >> the idea of bringing. >> an atlantic. city to. >> gaza is crazy. by the way. >> go to. >> atlantic city, go. >> to. >> trump tower, what's left of it down there. go look at the. >> at the gambling houses. >> look what happened the last time trump tried to start a riviera, a new. >> riviera, a new atlantic city. >> take a look at the old atlantic city and where that ended up. >> it didn't work. it works. >> in vegas. >> it didn't work. >> in atlantic city. and now he wants to. create this mecca with hamas becoming hospitality people as waiters and stuff like that. and chambermaids. are you crazy? this is a. crazy idea. i'm sorry to keep saying it, but it is the craziest. >> thing he's ever said. >> bibi netanyahu has got a sense of humor. i suppose he must have loved it because it said. >> no more two state solution. >> oh no. >> we're going to. >> have american. allies as our. >> neighbors and. >> hotel keepers on the gaza strip. unbelievable. and 2

million people are going to be. >> coaxed away to. >> destroy jordan. what an idea for me. >> i you know, the idea is definitely triggering and it's upsetting. and a lot of people are responding with shock and disbelief. and i think, you know. i think that it is a mistake to be shocked. it is just a mistake to be shocked at this point. and jonathan lemire, i want to focus this hour on the slow but steady and very immediate. i don't know what day this is of donald trump's presidency, but it's pretty early on dissolution of our government. there are efforts happening right now involving elon musk, and i think that we have to keep our eye on that signal and the retribution that is happening within it as well. >> yeah, i think it's really important. and we've heard from a number of guests this morning talking about how this gaza plan is far fetched, almost certainly

not going to happen. i wrote that as well. but even floating the idea has real world consequences. that's that's the signal. there's a lot of noise around it. >> that's. >> yeah, but but it also let's let's turn now to some of the efforts that president trump and elon musk are taking here at home gutting agencies. and we've also had republicans, at least in these domestic matters, refusing to speak out against against donald trump, giving up their article one powers about funding the government and letting him eliminate usaid. and he's turning reports, say, the department of education next. but also even in his cabinet choices where yesterday, yesterday, we had senator bill cassidy from louisiana, a physician, one who last week really cast a lot of skepticism about robert f kennedy jr's nomination for hhs yesterday said he would vote for him. senator todd young of indiana, a veteran, someone who has national security interests at heart. he has said so repeatedly showed earlier some real skepticism about tulsi gabbard at dni yesterday said that he

would advance her vote as to as well. both now gabbard and kennedy, who could be attacking government from within, seem to be on the fast track to approval. >> yeah. >> i. >> think pulling. >> back for a moment, we spent so much time in the first trump presidency. asking republicans to do the right thing. and waiting for them to stand up for the authority that they have to check donald trump. >> i don't. >> think that. >> that is going to work. it didn't work the first time. i think it would be a. mistake to count on that. i think right now there are limited options to constrain donald trump's presidency, and all of those avenues need to be pursued. i think. >> the. >> best way to get. republicans to actually start to do their jobs and hold donald. trump accountable, and at least some way is of course. >> there are. >> a handful of. >> republicans in. >> congress, too, who are in swing districts. now. >> i think the. >> battle for public opinion is the way to do that. so the democrats and really anybody who

is in the democratic small d opposition need to be fighting. hard to make clear to the american people that there there is a different path, that this is not inevitable, that we still have a government and a constitution that is worth fighting for, a democracy that's worth fighting for. it takes me back to the early days of the pandemic, where for all the many other mistakes he made, i thought governor andrew cuomo did a great job in new york of having a daily briefing from new york about the state of affairs for the covid pandemic. you know, why aren't we seeing that from the democrats and others today, but especially from the democrats? >> i think. >> that you cannot overcommunicate you cannot wait and have private discussions. you know, again, jeffries, schumer, i think they want to do the right thing, but we need to be seeing much more from them. you can't just wait for a whole strategy and then start messaging. you can't wait for that. you have to start communicating with the american people now and telling them what

is happening, showing them you're going to stand up. and then of course, there are the legal avenues as well. but until these republicans fear for their jobs from anyone other than donald trump, they're going to. >> be. >> beholden to. >> him instead of the constitution. >> yeah. 2017 2018 nancy pelosi took it upon herself to be the face for the democrats opposition. we're not seeing a singular figure do that for the democrats, at least not yet. bring in. let's bring into this conversation now, former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. he is director of the institute for international studies at stanford and an nbc news international affairs analyst and ambassador. mr. ambassador, you've written a piece this week for the dispatch asking this question, why is trump trying to lose our new cold war with china? in it, you write in part, this setting aside alliances, foreign aid, global trade and military might. it is our democratic ideals to constitute one of our greatest advantages in competing with china in the 21st century. with

polls from around the world finding that most people prefer democracy to dictatorship, american presidents worked with congress to create radio free europe, voice of america, the u.s. information agency, the national endowment for democracy, and usaid to help us win that ideological struggle. we won the ideological competition with communism because most of the world agreed that freedom is better than tyranny, and democracy is better than dictatorship. shutting down american organizations like usaid and ned that support democracy, markets, and the rule of law helps the chinese and their autocratic allies and hurts our democratic allies and partners. it's that simple, mr. ambassador. powerful words we get. when usaid was on the brink of shuttering, we got feedback from moscow. dmitry medvedev, putin's puppet. previous president, cheered. it, said elon musk was doing the right thing. beijing has been a little

more restrained in its reaction, but as you argue, they're probably cheering along as well. >> of course they are. and thanks for reading that. that passage. you know, the trump administration, the first. time around, they focused on the china and russia. >> threat, their 20 1617 national. security strategy. focused specifically on this autocratic threat. >> many of their senior. >> officials talked about it, and i. >> presume that. >> then when they came back the second. >> term. >> that they would be focused like a laser on. china as. >> the threat that the united states has to manage over the next decades. and that's. why this is just baffling how. >> distracting and it's not. >> jonathan. >> you said something very important. it's not. >> just distracting. >> and we're reacting. >> to it. >> it's already. >> damaging america's image. >> in the world. >> when the president of the united. >> states makes the comments that he made. yesterday that alienates. >> not just our allies, but our

partners. >> those that are sitting. >> on the fence that now. >> are. tipping towards. >> the chinese. >> and i. >> just. finished writing. >> a. >> book, lessons from the cold war for how to deal. >> with china. >> and russia and one of our. big superpowers. >> two of our big superpowers then, were allies. and our ideals. >> we had great allies. >> the soviets didn't. we had better ideas. democracy is better than dictatorship. >> and yet president trump so far. >> what is he doing? he's alienating our democratic. >> allies, and he's. >> not doing anything. >> to support democracy. just on the contrary. >> shutting down usaid. you know, who shut down usaid and russia? when i was the us ambassador. vladimir putin. he's doing what. vladimir putin. >> did in his country for the entire world. >> thank you. let me go. >> to i'll go ahead. chris. >> i've been said to go to the ambassador. i want to just say something about mara. mara, i completely agree with the democrats just talking politically here. there needs to be one voice every day rounding

up the issues. you have to begin with this whole array of things. first of all, the pardons. to all the people who attacked the capitol on january 6th, full pardons for everybody, all the conspiracies, everybody is completely liberated. they're free. number two, completely get rid of the advise and consent role of congress with regard to approving members of the cabinet completely run over them. bobby kennedy, are you kidding? all of them are getting through because the congress has abdicated its authority. so clearly you need somebody like schumer or somebody or hakeem to stand up there every day and say, here's what's happening today, here's what's going on. this is what they're trying to do. they're trying to get rid of congressional authority, starting with the pardoning of those people who attacked us, including the vice president. now, i go to the ambassador, getting rid of our voice in the world is important because. >> if trump. >> is our voice, if he is our voice, it looks like he's the voice of the republican party. now, the reality of the republican party, if he's us, then we're bullies. we're the country telling small countries, including enclaves like gaza, to

do it. we're going to move your 202 million people. we're going to round you up against your will, and we're going to move you to wherever we'd like some comfortable place he's calling it. it sounds like some indian trader or something from the old west, some corrupt official cheating the indians. i mean, we're not going to take him to some nice place. they want to stay where they are. your thoughts? >> well, the whole gaza thing is just ridiculous. >> it's not going to happen. >> and but the bigger. >> point you're making, i think, is. >> really important. trump is acting like a bully. he's acting like a gangster. he's acting like an empire. right. and with. >> small countries. >> they don't. >> have choices, right? >> panama. >> colombia, even canada and mexico, they can be. coerced into doing. >> things with a country like the united states of america. >> because we. >> have so much power. >> but they don't like it. they don't respect us for it. and the problem. >> with that strategy.

>> today is that we're not the only superpower in the world. there's another. >> superpower called china. >> and so. >> when we bully those. >> countries, they are eventually going to gravitate towards this other actor in the world. not maybe not canada and mexico, but other countries in the world. they have a choice. and that's why when. >> president kennedy created. >> usaid in 1961, it was. to counter. soviet foreign economic assistance in the world. >> right now, the chinese. >> it's. >> called the belt and road initiative. they're spending hundreds of billions of dollars to win friends around the world. if we. >> don't spend anything. >> we lose to the chinese. >> it's just that simple. >> all right. nbc news international affairs analyst michael mcfaul, thank you very much. your piece available to read online now, and we appreciate it. we're going to take a moment to take a look at other news making headlines this

morning. a manhunt is underway in ohio after at least one person was killed and five more injured in a shooting at a cosmetics warehouse. the chief of the new albany police department said they have one person of interest and are working to bring them into custody. he said the shooting, which just happened before 11 p.m, appeared to be the targeted type of attack, but he would not reveal whether the suspect was a current or former employee at the facility. he said he did not believe the suspect posed a general threat to the public. 11 months after baltimore's francis scott key bridge collapsed, a new design is revealing what the new bridge will look like. governor westmore and the maryland department of transportation unveiled this digital rendering yesterday. construction of the new bridge is expected to be completed in 2028. the original bridge collapsed last march after a 984 foot container ship that lost power struck it. the accident

killed six construction workers who were fixing potholes on the bridge at the time. and ministers in spain agreed to cut the legal working week to 37.5 hours, with no change in salary, the spanish labor minister told reporters this proposal is about living better, working less and being much more productive and more efficient economically. the measure now needs to be approved by the country's parliament and viewership for the grammy awards on sunday night fell to 15.4 million viewers, down 9% compared to last year. the drop breaks a three year ratings streak for the program. this year's ceremony focused on fundraising efforts to aid the california wildfire relief effort, and raised more than $24 million. chris matthews, stay with us. we've got a lot more to talk about coming up here on morning joe. concerns over rising egg prices may have reached a new level after someone stole 100,000 eggs worth

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>> eggs in. >> the store. >> trump would be screaming. >> into an empty mcmuffin. >> right now. the egg shortage is so severe that at. >> the waffle house, they have a 50 cent. >> surcharge per egg. >> now. >> i never thought i'd. >> live in a time where. >> there would be surge. >> pricing on eggs. this is going. >> to be a tough easter. kids get ready to start hunting swedish meatballs. >> because yeah. >> all right. the average price for a dozen eggs in the us has jumped 50% in the past year, and the cost increase appears to have accelerated since november. nbc news correspondent jesse kirsch has more on the impact. >> this morning. >> your favorite waffle house. breakfast is likely going to take. >> a bigger bite. >> out of your wallet, with egg prices soaring. the popular breakfast. chain is scrambling. >> to keep up. >> announcing it's temporarily charging an extra. >> $0.50 per egg. >> writing in part. rather than increasing prices across the menu, this is a temporary, targeted surcharge tied to the. unprecedented rise in egg

prices, adding we cannot predict how long this shortage will last. >> they've gotten really expensive. >> the national restaurant association says producer costs for eggs are up 134% year. >> over year. >> that's just almost too much for any restaurant to try to absorb. >> in. their narrow margins. >> breakfast spots. >> hit particularly hard. >> so while waffle house may be the first. to announce this type of price increase, according to experts. >> there's likely. >> more to come. >> i think that as. >> egg prices remain elevated, we're likely to see more restaurants have to succumb to the options of raising menu prices or adding surcharges. >> the average price for a dozen. eggs now more than. >> $5. >> and in some local markets, prices are as high as. >> $19 a dozen. >> the biggest reason? >> bird flu. >> the department of agriculture says avian influenza has impacted more than 113 million egg laying chickens nationwide since february 2022, and according to the usda's price

outlook, egg prices are predicted to increase another 20%. >> this year. >> there have also been. >> egg shortages. >> leaving shoppers racing to gobble up what's available. meanwhile, the bird flu has continued to spread. >> these extreme weather events. >> the fires. >> we saw in la hurricanes. >> down in the south. >> they've changed how migratory birds fly, and those migratory birds are. >> the ones. that spread. >> the virus to our. >> egg farms. >> all of it leading. >> to empty. >> grocery store. >> shelves nationwide. >> that was nbc's jesse kirsch with that report. let's now bring in cnbc's dom chu. dom, i freely admit that i'm still reeling from senator kennedy's passionate description of his love for omelets, but certainly an egg shortage is real, and there don't seem to be any signs for relief on the horizon. >> no. >> it. >> doesn't, and not until the supply. >> chains can get. over the. avian flu. supply chain issues, the slaughtering of just that. >> many. >> egg laying chickens across the country. it's even gotten to

the point right now where people. are stealing them. i mean, there's a report out there from pennsylvania where about 100,000 eggs were. stolen off the back of a commercial truck. you know, basically, this is a massive amount of 100,000 eggs. so you do the math, divide it by 12. so it's about 8000. 8300. some odd dozens. and the price that they estimated it at. >> is a. >> loss of around $40,000. so you're talking about roughly just shy of $5 a dozen in terms of market value for the eggs that were stolen. it almost reminds you of some of those times when copper prices soared and you heard about thefts from empty homes, people stealing copper wiring and that sort of thing. but until the supply chains get worked out, these are the kinds of things that you can expect. and by the way, i don't know about your local grocery store, but in mine, yes, the store shelves are relatively empty. but those eggs that were still there, i still saw people buying them. so it remains to be seen. at what level people will stop buying eggs if they just

cost too much. so that's the egg side of things. meanwhile, elsewhere in the economy, some sad. >> news on the jobs front. >> workday is going to cut around 750 jobs. now, there's a perverse irony about it. these are the kinds of headlines and stories that we should be getting more used to in the coming years. this idea that there are going to be obvious side effects or primary symptoms of the push towards more artificial intelligence use. the irony here, of course, is that workday is a company that makes systems to help manage finance. and yes, human resource functions for corporate customers. we're talking things like payroll processing, employee experience, function, workday's announcement of cutting that 750 jobs, or roughly 8.5% of its workforce, is meant to counteract bigger picture economic and structural issues. they have to cut costs amid what they think is an anticipated, slower economic environment, where companies that buy their products could just be spending less on that stuff in the future, and they want to deploy those resources

towards developing more artificial intelligence related products. now, workday said it will incur around 230 to $270 million in costs and charges related to those job cuts. as is often the case with these announcements, investors are cheering to a certain extent. the stock price is higher today given the reduction in costs and the reallocation towards what's seen as higher growth businesses in ai. and it's not all that surprising now, given all of those things that i just spoke about and the economic uncertainty. but economists at morgan stanley are now forecasting just one interest rate cut for the entire balance of the year 2025. they join their colleagues at macquarie and elsewhere on the street. you can see at barclays they all forecast just one cut so far. it's not maybe surprising, given what central bankers are grappling with when it comes to tariff policy and trade wars. what will they do to costs across the globe? to be fair, i'm not sure anyone anywhere

really knows what the us and global economy will look like for sure. mainly because if this really is just a negotiating exercise on a multilateral trade basis in front with things happening and happening within the span of weeks, days or even hours like we saw with the suspension and then reinstatement of deliveries, this could all be uncertainty that policymakers just don't. they just can't deal with. they can only forecast only so far guys. >> yeah, it certainly could impact consumer confidence as well. cnbc's dom chu, thank you very much for that reporting. i want to go back to grocery prices, chris matthews and talk politics, raw politics here. when it comes. you know, we were talking we were listening to jimmy kimmel talking about grocery prices and making a joke that if, you know, biden had prices like this of eggs and groceries, that trump would be railing about it right now for trump voters, his pronouncements

about gaza dissolving usaid, retribution in the fbi. and yet egg prices are 50% higher than they were a year ago. he promised to bring grocery prices down right away day one. and as you can see from day one, every day he's been able to do very big things all at once. and yet, grocery prices are still high for trump voters in pennsylvania. what are they thinking at this point? are they still are they still feeling like he's got their back? >> well, let's talk about the whole country, because i read the new york times thoroughly on monday morning, and i got to page 15. on page 15, they have an analysis of the 2024 presidential election. and they point out that the republicans were smart to talk about inflation and the border, but mainly inflation. and the country itself cared mostly about inflation. the democrats were wrong to talk too much about social issues. fair

enough. they now have to look at the fact that what causes that? well, the government spending. i looked at an mit report that came out this week that mit professors say it was mainly government spending. 42% of it can be accounted for. too much government spending because of covid. okay, trump's got to deal with that. he's got to deal with prices and it'll come back to bite him in november next year. he will lose votes in the close house races for the for the reelection next year. on drug prices. i mean, egg prices. it's going to be as basic as that. people are going to go, wait a minute. a friend of mine called me up a while ago and said, philadelphia cream cheese. cream cheese used to only be two bucks. now it's seven bucks. what's going on? yeah, people really do pay and they don't do it year to year the way economists do it. they don't say this percentage this year 2%, 5%. no, no. they remember what it cost before 3 or 4 years ago. they go, wait a minute. 3 or 4 years ago when i was shopping my basket, i could put this in my basket and throw in some dessert. no more dessert. just

this. and so i saw it on television last night. one of the major networks did this. they said, look at people can get into their market basket. they can't do what they used to do because eggs and other prices. >> yeah. and then you have the trump voter who's like, well, you know, i didn't think he was really going to do the tariffs. but you know, he did. so he i don't know. >> he is. >> what do you. >> do with that. he's going to he's going to do everything. he's going to get rid of dealing with aig. and by the way, i know not everybody's big hearted, but i know you are. and i tell you, in the country of africa where i spent a couple of years, i got to tell you, there's nothing like pepfar. they took aids, which was ravaging countries like eswatini, where 35% of the country had aids, 25. >> million lives saved. >> and they've done it. and they make us the good guys. we're not the bullies in africa. we're helping people survive aids and hiv, and they're really doing it with, with, with health care, with what we're good at, when we when we put our selves to it,

we're really saving lives. and that's because of michael gerson, who was a speechwriter for w george w bush. and he got together with george w bush, and they did this thing, and they've got the republicans stuck to it. i don't know where this is going to be after the end of this turmoil and this craziness. if you get rid of aid, go after the peace corps, who knows what they're going to go after next. elon musk was never elected to jack anything. he was never elected to anything. he has no votes, no electoral votes, and he's closing down aid. this is a problem for trump. and trump's going to notice he's got too much company right now. too much company in the same room. the other guy. >> chris matthews, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we'll see you again soon. appreciate it. still ahead, we'll bring you the story of a woman in southern california who is reuniting people with photos that were displaced during the devastating wildfires. morning, joe, we'll wildfires. morning, joe, we'll be right back.

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free people, and an organized political opposition that represents fully half the country. so here we go. >> it's on. >> welcome back to morning joe. after last month's devastating fires in los angeles, one woman has made it her mission to return photos that blew away while homes there were burning. nbc news correspondent liz kreuz has the story. >> it started with one picture. >> it says. >> norah and eddie. >> new year's eve, eve 1989. then another. and another. family photos, a yearbook, a child's artwork, now charred. >> i think it was probably on somebody's fridge. >> and then when everything. >> burned. >> down. >> it got. >> ripped off and. >> flew away. yeah. claire schwartz. >> says these images. >> are among dozens. >> that rained. >> down during the firestorm that ripped through altadena, found, in some cases miles away, and then posted online. >> more and more posts like that started. >> turning up. and so claire began collecting and cleaning

these lost images, creating eaton fire found photos in the hopes of reuniting them with their owners. >> i only get one photo. >> back. >> to. its owner. >> i'll be. >> happy the wind's blowing. >> and branches. >> are hitting. >> our face. enter heidi marginean, who. >> says during her family's rush to. >> evacuate, the trunk of their car snapped open and boxes of their most precious photos flew out. >> you're the woman in the tiara. >> that's me in the tiara. >> but then a family friend recognized a hoodie on claire's instagram. >> i said. >> oh. >> my goodness. >> like, yay! >> so happy. >> we found you. now, claire returning these irreplaceable photographs. it's pictures. >> of my parents that are. both deceased. >> pictures of. >> my childhood. >> a lot of missing people in my life. >> what does it feel like to actually have found a match and reunited someone with their with their photos? it feels great. >> it means a lot. >> and i. >> appreciate you. >> i can't build houses. >> i can't put the neighborhood back together. but i can do this. >> a single snapshot developed

into so much more. >> nbc's liz kreutz with that report and still ahead on morning joe, our next guest is giving an honest account of what it's like to be a first time mother sharing the more difficult, non joyful moments she's had to endure. she joins us with her story and message us with her story and message for new parents. that's next on your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel. nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. try pronamel mouthwash. print. >> your brand on everything so customers can notice. >> you, remember you, and. >> fall in. >> fall in. >> love with you my mom used to tell me if you want to be a champion you got to be a champion at life. i got to watch her play at her highest

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high absorption and is gentle on the stomach. kunal, the brand i trust. >> many women describe becoming a new mother as a joyous and exciting time. but our next guest says her experience was anything but. in her brutally honest new memoir, the mother lode, author sarah hoover candidly details her struggles with severe postpartum depression and how she emerged from it. and sarah joins us now. it's really good to have you on the show this morning. i appreciate it so much.

>> thank you. >> what made you decide to write this all down? >> i really wrote. >> the book that i wished. >> i had had. >> when i was. going through. >> my experience after having my first. >> child. >> and it. >> i was. >> filled with so. >> much shame. >> and i faced so much judgment for what. >> i. >> went. >> through after. >> i had him. but i decided to kind of push through and just provide other. women with. >> the. >> description of my experience. >> because it wasn't. >> it was something that i couldn't. >> find on my own in that year. >> i was looking. >> everywhere to find a. >> mirror that i could hold up to myself, and. >> i couldn't. >> so i wrote. i wrote. >> one for. >> everybody else. >> i think a lot of people have preconceived ideas as to what it's supposed to be like, and there's so much on social media you know, of, like the beauty and joys of parenting and having a baby. sometimes people put like everything out there and they're fully made up having their babies, by the way, looking beautiful. and the babies are somehow perfect. i

now want to read an excerpt from your book. one of the more brutally honest parts is when you describe your raw feelings and emotions immediately after giving birth. and sarah, you write in part this when they put a baby on my body, i looked down at him and my heart sank. i felt nothing, no overwhelming love or happiness, no excitement, not even curiosity about him. all i saw in him were my flaws, the things i'd hated most about myself since childhood, and i felt the pain of my homely face so many times in my life. i knew the way it correlated to my value as a person. so when i looked at him, when i looked at this creature i had somehow birthed from my own loins, this being that supposedly was my whole raison d'etre. i saw my hideous nose, my weak chin, all the insults from boys on

playgrounds written all over him, and i felt like i'd lost my entire life and identity to this ugly baby in one day. i have so many questions i'm going to say them all. what was the response you got to, especially this passage, but to writing this? secondly, how are you now and how has your relationship with your baby, and how did you work through those feelings in the moment? was anybody validating how you felt? >> well. >> first of all. >> my book has only been out for a couple of weeks, but i have been shocked at the number of. women who have reached out to me and gotten into. >> contact at. >> many different ages women in their 60s 70s who say say to me, thank. >> you for saying. >> these things. i have. >> felt this for 30 years. >> and i didn't have. >> the words to describe what. >> i. >> went through. >> young women. >> new mothers, i. i felt so alone in in these moments that i

write about. and i'm realizing. now that. >> this is. >> an experience. >> that's shared by so many women, and there are so few pathways to finding community and. >> talking about it. >> my relationship with my child now is amazing. he's seven. when i. >> recovered from. postpartum depression. >> things changed drastically for me. i even. >> have another baby. >> i have. >> an eight month old at home. >> so i went back for round two and it wasn't the same. >> and wait, i. >> can't remember. >> your. >> third question. >> did anyone validate how you were feeling at the moment? >> okay. thank you. you know, yeah. i was like. an oscar worthy actress. >> in the. >> year. >> after i had my child, i lied to everyone. i lied to myself. i kept saying to myself, if you fake it, maybe you'll make it. and you know how to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and try really hard and work out and go to yoga and meditate and write in your journal and you'll fix your depression. eventually you'll get there. and the truth

was that that's. >> not possible. >> i needed real help, i needed therapy, i eventually went on meds and it was only through that sort of practice that i was able to overcome this, you know, mental illness. but it took a really long time to admit that to myself, and it took a really long time to admit it to anyone else. i simply didn't have the language for it. it wasn't language i saw out there in the world. there was no one for me to mirror. there was no modeling for it. it took about a year for me to find a therapist that i was comfortable talking to. my husband and people close to me knew something was wrong because i wasn't joyful, i was angry, i had incredible rage towards the medical system, my doctor, the idea that i was supposed to give up my identity that i had so carefully built over years, and, you know, be delighted to just be a mother. i felt no maternal instincts, i felt no connection to mothering, and i felt no connection to my kid. and yeah, it took me a really long time to

figure that out. so it's hard to blame anyone else for not realizing it at the time, as i wasn't really sharing about it. you know. >> i c. >> i just your face, your voice, your sharing of this vulnerability. you're very beautiful. i hope you know that. now. i just feel the need to say that. >> that's very kind of you. i, i, i'm grateful that you i mean, i love a compliment, but i will say that i don't think there's any woman out there who hasn't felt insecure, whether it's rational or not. i can't say i just, but we all have our insecurities. and when you are in your depressed brain, there's no light at the end of any tunnel and there's no way to see anything but the things that you don't like about yourself. and they don't often make sense. >> and i understand that. i just felt the need to say that. mara. gay, you have the next question. >> yeah. sarah, i. think one thing i. >> love about this book and this project is that we are in a moment, sadly, where a regressive idea of women and our

role in society is kind of being championed. you see it in tradwife culture, you see it in the white house now, and i, i just love the idea that you are reasserting what it means to be human for women, not only to be mothers. >> can you talk. >> a little bit about how you kind of found yourself, and what your message may be for women who maybe they want to be mothers or they are mothers, but they also are feeling all the full range of human emotions as they experience the world. >> yeah, i mean, i had a full career. i worked at an art gallery for many years. i'm an art historian by training, and i was enraged that right when i came back from the hospital, my husband got to go back to his job and i was i felt stuck at home and devastated by the fact that my life was never going to be the same, that no matter what, i would always have this child to answer to. this child is now a huge gift in my life and has given me this new purpose of advocating for women

and mothers, and for a description of the full breadth of what the motherhood experience can be like for women. but at the time, it just felt oppressive to me. right? and you're right. like the cultural dialog right now about motherhood feels really old fashioned, really traditional. and i just feel like there's so much room for it to be both. it is true that when you become a mother, you have a huge change in your identity. that is fact. but there is also a way to find delight in that and joy and humor. and when i was depressed, i couldn't find any of those things. but it's okay for women to be both and to have both. you know, i'm. i something that i write about in my book is how i look back at the way my own mother parented and what her relationship was like to being a working mom, and how that i think duality was really complicated for her. and