month. call 1-833-735-4495 or visit homeserve. com. >> good to be with you. i'm katie tur. it is a good moment, i think, to take a step back and ask yourself what exactly is going on here? it's been now two and a half weeks since donald trump was sworn in, and in that time there have been dozens of executive orders, including one attempting to unilaterally overturn a constitutional amendment, a move to shut down a congressionally created government agency, a takeover, or at least the attempted

takeover of the treasury department's financial system in order to freeze federal funds and grants and in order to rescind it just a couple hours later, a mass firing of inspectors general, a mass intimidation, and then maybe a potential mass firing of fbi agents and doj prosecutors and offer to nearly everyone in the federal workforce, including the cia, to take a buyout. tariffs and then pauses on those tariffs, a desire to take over greenland and the panama canal, and to make canada the 51st state. and now we're all talking about a suggestion that the us be in charge of gaza to make it. as president trump offered last night, the. riviera of the middle east. the question that should be on all of our tongues right now is not just, is this guy for real? but is this a part of some. >> greater ploy?

>> and then if it is, what exactly is the end goal? already in the hours since the president suggested the us take over gaza. the very allies he said would work with him on it have publicly balked. >> no way. >> said saudi arabia, egypt and jordan. >> what authority. >> do you even have to do on this? said some republicans. so i ask again, what exactly is the intention here? joining us now to try to sort it out, nbc news correspondent yasmin vossoughian, who is on the ground for us in israel. council on foreign relations senior fellow of middle east and africa studies stephen cook and punchbowl news co-founder and msnbc political contributor contributor who can help us understand what's happening on the ground in washington. jake sherman, we're going to go to yasmin in a second. we're having some audio difficulties with her. so, jake, i'm going to begin with you on this. it was a statement that he had to have known would have gotten a giant

reaction, not just here at home, not just on capitol hill, but around the world. what i found most interesting about the reaction, though, is that the republican party has done so little to push back on donald trump since he won reelection, certainly in the past two and a half weeks. all of his nominees seem to be going through. but yet on this issue, you are getting some notable pushback. we're going to put some of it on the screen for you. there's rand paul saying, what are we doing? this is not what you campaigned on. lindsey graham saying it's going to be problematic. but then again, he's also saying he's going to keep an open mind. what is the reaction on capitol hill to this? is there any anything notable that you've been able to uncover? >> katie, the best. >> quote. >> you didn't even read. >> thom tillis. there might be a. >> couple of kinks in that slinky. >> i think that's probably the. >> best. >> the best summation of this. here's what i would say. the appetite. >> for foreign. >> intervention, even with an ally like israel, which

republicans have stood steadfastly behind for much of the last 5 or 6 decades, the appetite is relatively minuscule. and even then, someone like lindsey graham, who again, stands with trump. is not terribly afraid of foreign intervention. he's saying, thanks, but no thanks. >> and this. >> gets back. >> to raw. >> individual politics, right? >> because these are. >> these are members of congress, not. just those. >> 4 or 5 that you had up there. >> republican members of congress. >> have to. go home. in the case of a u.s. intervention in a place like. >> israel or. >> anywhere else in the world, and explain to mothers and fathers and soldiers and airmen and seamen and everybody else, that why they are sending their children and soldiers in harm's way, and what it does to help keep america safer. >> now. >> i think that this is not what ends up happening. remember,

katie, when the biden. administration talked about building a pier in gaza that had no u.s. assets on the ground in the strip, there. >> was huge. >> outcry over that. it ended up not working for a number of reasons, but there was huge outcry over that. mike johnson, i think, was very interesting this morning. somebody who is tied to trump at the hip in every other part of his body said, it's an interesting idea. i want to hear. >> more about it. >> and i want to talk to israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, who will be up here in the capitol tomorrow. so i don't think this has any legs. of course. trump could. probably do it without congress just because of the huge shift in power from the from capitol hill to the administration on matters of foreign policy. but very little support. >> up. here for this. >> it did appear. that it caught even benjamin netanyahu by surprise as well. that's been what's being reported in the

israeli media. yasmin, i think we're back connected with you. the suggestion that this become the riviera of the middle east, that this waterfront property, which is beautiful, be taken over. it's not a new suggestion. donald trump's own son in law made the same suggestion on february 15th of 2024. let's listen. >> there are real fears. >> on the part. >> of arabs, and. >> i'm. sure you talked to. >> a lot. >> of. >> them who think. >> once gazans. >> leave gaza. >> netanyahu's never going. >> to let. >> them. >> back in. >> maybe, but. >> i'm not sure there's much left. >> of gaza at this point. >> so, you know, if you think about even the construct. >> like. >> you know, gaza. >> gaza was not. >> really a historical precedent, right? it was the result of a war. >> right? >> you had tribes that were in different places. >> but then gaza. >> became a thing. gaza's waterfront property, it could be very valuable to. >> if people. >> would focus. >> on kind. >> of. >> building up. >> you know, livelihoods. >> you think. >> about. >> all the. >> money that's. >> gone. into this tunnel.

>> network and into all. the munitions. if that would have gone into education or innovation, what could have been done? and so. >> i. think that. >> it's a little bit. >> of an unfortunate situation there. but i think from israel's perspective, i would do my best to move the people out and then clean it up. >> but yasmin, what's the reaction over there? incredulity, to say the least. kind of like a nuclear bomb has gone off here in the middle east. i think there's a failure to recognize katie here. the identity of gazans and palestinians, why they feel as if they belong in gaza and the history to the region, the national identity, the homeland that they are on from ms. in saudi arabia to the egyptian president al-sisi, who's visiting washington tomorrow, to king jordan, king abdullah of jordan, who's going to washington on february 11th to islamic militants, islamic

jihad, hamas, the palestinian authority, all of them denouncing what the president has, in fact said. when we talk about history here, this is this is their homeland. this is where they believe they belong. you know, they evacuated katie, as we all well know, a year and a half ago to the south. they walked back miles, drove back miles to find. yes, rubble. there is not a lot left to northern gaza. but do you know what they're doing? they're setting up house in northern gaza. on top of that rubble. planning on rebuilding with their children to reclaim their communities, their mosques, their schools. their storefronts. i actually went out into the streets of tel aviv and spoke to some israelis about the possibility of donald trump asking palestinians to leave gaza. and our brave team on the ground in gaza spoke to

palestinians as well. let's take a little bit of a listen to some of what they had to say, and then we'll talk on the other side. >> we can't leave our homes. >> how we can how we how you dare. >> how dare. >> you to say. you should leave your homes? we can't, we can't. this. this is palestine. and we palestinians are the. only ones who have the right to live here and never to leave it. we will never leave our town palestine. for us, this is never changing. >> i mean. >> there are people live there. >> there is gazan. >> civilians who lives. >> in gaza. >> i don't understand. >> the idea. >> of just. >> taking over. when we talk about history, we got to think back to 2006, when hamas first won their seat, their governance in gaza. and one of the reasons why they won that popularity was because of the infrastructure, the schooling that they had promised, for instance, to provide, right. the aid they had promised to, for instance, provide. it wasn't because of a

love of ideology, of what hamas was doling out. it was because of what they promised to provide an area of this world that had nothing, and that still continues to have nothing. the country, the organization that wins the hearts of palestinians remaining in their land will be the country, the organization that provides that aid, that provides that infrastructure. we heard bibi netanyahu say yesterday that the point of this war was to eradicate hamas from from gaza. that has not succeeded. hamas is still alive and well, as you well know. it is an ideology. it is not a person. yes, the heads of hamas can be taken out, but the ideology there still exists. and so many israelis and many palestinians are looking towards the negotiating of the second phase of this cease fire deal. and they are worried because of the rhetoric coming out of washington right now. this is a live shot. >> by the way. >> of prime minister benjamin

netanyahu at the pentagon with the defense secretary, the new defense secretary, pete hegseth. stephen, you called trump's takeover plan sheer lunacy, writing in foreign policy. i want to ask i want to play devil's. >> advocate here. >> for. >> a second and just wonder if there is. maybe an alternate intention that donald trump helped negotiate the abraham accords a few years back. is there is there a way to look at this as in a more generous light to say, maybe he's saying this so that saudi arabia comes to the table and says, no, no, no, we're going to actually help with the rebuilding, because so far, the idea of rebuilding gaza, the plan for rebuilding gaza nonexistent. there is no plan for rebuilding gaza. the israelis have put nothing forward. but if this cease fire is going to continue, there's got to be a plan at the end of the road. saudi arabia has said there's got to be a plan for palestinian statehood at the end of the road if they're going to maintain normalized relations. so in a generous reading of

this, can we say that this is maybe donald trump being at the extreme end of things to get things moving? >> well, that is really generous, katie. i and i use the. >> term. >> sheer lunacy for. >> for a very. >> specific reason. >> it's precisely. because the. >> president has. >> a. >> series of. >> goals in the middle east that makes. >> this proposal. >> to ethnically cleanse. >> gazans from. >> the area. >> and move. >> them to. >> egypt and. >> jordan would. undermine everything that he has. >> sought to do. if you. >> want the saudis. >> to play ball. >> on. >> gaza. >> you don't. >> threaten to. >> move palestinians. >> out. >> take over the gaza strip. >> and quote unquote. >> own it. >> that's unlikely to. >> get the. >> saudis. >> who are reluctant. >> without a doubt, who. >> are already. >> reluctant to. >> get. >> involved in the gaza strip. >> because it's throwing. >> good money after bad. >> but this is less likely. >> to get them to do the kinds of things. >> that he wants to do. >> so whereas. >> i have heard this generous,

generous interpretation of things, that he's just doing this so that he gets the saudis, the egyptians and the jordanians to step up. it seems to me that given the fact that transferring. >> palestinians to egypt. >> is seen as a. security threat from the perspective of the egyptian. >> government and. >> a threat to. >> the. >> stability of the. kingdom in jordan. he's less likely. >> to get. >> them to step up and more likely for them to stay, which is essentially what they have been. >> saying is. >> we're willing to. >> risk our aid in order to oppose this plan. >> i wonder about. >> the security. >> threat to the united states for trying to attempt something like this. the national security advisor, mike wallace, was on cbs this morning. he was asked that question. here's the answer. >> from an. >> american perspective. >> does this make americans safer? the first. >> concern people will. >> have is. >> well, there's terrorism there. >> is there not going to be terrorism. >> here because we're so. >> mixed up in this? >> well. >> it's the same. i mean, i

think it's the same strategy and thinking of why we still have forces going. after isis. >> all over the world. >> we still have allies. >> and partners. >> helping us with al qaeda. the president just. >> authorized on saturday. >> a strike to a major isis. >> financier. >> recruiter and leader in the caves in northern. somalia that. >> frankly. >> our military. >> had been trying. >> to take out for. >> well over a year and couldn't get. >> the approvals. from the. >> previous white house. >> so i think what. >> you're asking is, why. >> do we support. >> our allies. >> and partners. >> in. counterterrorism with a group that is literally promising to conduct future october 7th, which was the nine over 11. >> for. israel of. >> their time? >> so. >> absolutely, we're going to continue. >> to help. >> and when we have. >> terrorism defeated and degraded. >> abroad. >> it helps. >> the homeland here. >> yeah. >> i'm. >> not quite sure that was an answer. i think the question more was, is this going to

inspire more hatred toward the west? does this unite the middle east against the west? is this is this making us safer here? >> yeah, i think the national security advisor. >> who has. >> a good. >> reputation with. >> purposely evading. >> the question there. >> i'm not sure whether. >> it unites. >> the. >> arab world anymore. >> against the united. >> states than. >> it already has been. but the idea. >> that. >> the united states is. >> going to go. >> in. and clean up and own. >> the gaza strip. >> that is going to require a major military operation and combat. and the reverberations. >> of that combat can. be felt not. >> just in the. >> gaza strip, but well beyond, as we've seen from our misadventures in iraq and other. >> places in the region. >> so this is a dangerous and destabilizing idea that the president put forward. >> last evening in. >> his in his. >> press conference. and i think that it. >> will only. >> result in. grief if they try to. >> implement it. >> once again, even. if this is something just floated. to

motivate. >> governments in the arab. >> world. >> it's. >> unlikely to. >> get the desired result. >> let me ask you, jake, the question that i started with is what is the intention here? i'm going to ask you to go broad. i just listed the number of things that have happened in the past two, two and a half weeks. i left some of the things off there. otherwise, you know, the list would just have gone on too long. there's been so much that donald trump has attempted to do legally, illegally, with the power that he believes he has now in the white house. this shock and awe, it's, you know. where our heads are whipping back and forth. what's the story? what's that story? do you have a better sense of what the intentions are here, what the intentions are among republicans in washington for the next four years? >> well. >> there's. >> probably two intentions and they're and they're intertwined and sometimes in conflict there is what trump is doing, what he said he's going to do effectively. he's trying to shake up the government, do all these things. and jim jordan

told me something interesting during the campaign season before donald trump won. he said trump should do some things, should fire some people legally and illegally and say, sue me. so they see this. republicans, broadly speaking, see this as this guy won. he campaigned on most of this stuff and let him enact it. then you have the other side of the coin, which is the blocking and tackling of government governing. katie, funding the government, raising the debt ceiling, passing a tax bill, getting california wildfire aid. and as we wrote earlier this week, for every action he takes on one side, there's an equal and opposite reaction when he needs democratic help. and i've been shouting this from the rooftops now for a week because we're going to we're 30 something days away from a government shutdown. and if you think that democrats are just going to lay down and fund government when donald trump is tearing the entire place up, i think you're sorely mistaken. so the common thread is, you know, someone asked me how crazy this is. if i was surprised, i don't find myself as surprised as i was in 2017.

maybe i'm desensitized to it. i understand some of the things are legal. some of them are on their face, illegal. i expected all of this. and more, and i, and i think members of congress are delighting in a lot. of this. >> yeah. >> and listen, the funding of government, if that funding is being repurposed, whoever the executive sees fit or whoever elon musk sees fit, what's the point in trying to come. >> to a there is. >> no consensus on it. >> and why help them? >> if you're a democrat, why give him a hand? >> jake sherman, steven cook, yasmin vossoughian, guys, thank you so much for starting us off. still ahead, ice. conducted raids on an apartment complex in denver. what? they say the migrants inside were linked to. plus, what the white house and the insiders in the white house are warning elon musk amid his aggressive effort to downsize the federal government. and speaking of musk, first, it was u.s. aid. aid. now it's the cia. what workers there were just offered, and the impact it could ultimately have on our national

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security and the military, cortney kirby. all right. why is it a big deal to have an unclassified email sent with new hires to the white house? >> so it's precisely the job that these individuals do. they are working for the central intelligence agency. now, this email was sent on an unclassified system because it had to. >> go to. >> opm, the office of personnel management, which does not have a classified server or system. so because of that, the intelligence agency sent the first name and the first initial of the last name in. >> an. >> effort to. >> try to protect the identities of these people, some of. >> whom katie could. >> be assigned to. >> covert roles. >> that alone has intelligence officials, former. and current, extremely concerned, though the possibility that someone, some sort of a malicious actor. >> here could. >> get access to this email. >> and just. figure out. >> who these. people are. >> and then ultimately target them is a very real concern here. >> katie. >> so the names were sent as part of an executive action

president donald trump signed. we have seen this happen at other agencies as well. but now we can say that these names were turned over again as part of an action by president trump to office of personnel management. these are individuals who, many of whom. their identities are not ever intended to be made public. katie. >> all right. courtney cooper. >> thank. >> you very much. and after multiple lawsuits and outrage over potential mass firings, the department of justice there, officials issued a new memo telling fbi agents that the administration's efforts to identify agents who worked on january 6th investigations does not necessarily mean that anyone is getting fired, writing, quote, no fbi employee who simply followed orders and carried out their duties in an ethical manner is at risk of termination or other penalties. joining us now, nbc news national law and intelligence correspondent tom winter. there's a lot of work being done by the words ethical in that statement. they're going to be the judge of whether an investigation was done ethically

or not. and i'm assuming that the interpretation of what is ethical could there could be some politics involved there. >> well, what. >> you or i. >> might even just you and i might think. is ethical or not would be perhaps different between the two. >> of us or any individual. so yes, i think that does. >> leave it open to interpretation. >> the big concern here, and the reason why you saw the lawsuits filed and the reason why you and i were speaking about this just yesterday. is this. idea of if you were following orders, one of the strengths. >> of. >> the fbi, you. >> talk. >> to people that are that are in the fbi and outside of the fbi. >> their ability. >> to operate. >> across this country. at any given moment. i was speaking with somebody who was reminding me of this. >> you know, if you worked. >> at. >> the. >> fbi field. >> office in oregon. >> and i'm here. >> in new york, i can pick. >> up the phone. >> hey, katie, there's. >> this person. we really need. >> to interview them. >> it's part of a federal case. so what you. >> get. >> i get it's all wrapped into the same thing. you're ordered to do that. >> by your supervisor. >> it's not because you chose that assignment. it's not because you wanted to interview that person. that's just the way the system works. and that's

what had the agents so concerned. just saying, hey. >> i. >> was asked to do this. this is the normal course of my business. and now there seems to be. >> an effort. >> by the person who is running the justice department. up until a few. >> hours ago. >> and saying, look, we weren't going to fire you just because you were doing your orders. there is a little bit of wiggle room now, though, in that. >> language. >> the firing or the potential laying off of not just people at doj, fbi agents, officials, but also now cia agents offering a number of them buyouts. if i were worried about national security, would i be wrong to. >> to worry? >> well. >> i. >> think the. >> first thing that courtney mentioned is the most concerning, which is the. >> fact that names. >> are transmitted in an. >> unclassified setting. >> that. >> i mean, there. >> there are stars on the wall of the. cia. of people that died in the service. >> of the united states. >> and they're not mentioned by name, because to give that information up could hurt ongoing covert. actions or the work that they were doing. that is a real thing that exists. that's not just in the movies.

the movies get that. from the reality. so that's a concern. number one broader. >> picture here. yes. >> the idea that. >> you're effectively saying. >> to these folks, you know, just for doing your job, we might want to buy out just for doing your job, we might want you fired. and i think that's something that from. >> who might take the buyout because they don't want to be working in this. >> they don't. >> want to. >> be part. >> of it. >> the brain drain, the intellectual damage. >> to both of these agencies. >> could certainly exist. >> yeah. brain drain. brain drain across the federal government. tom winter, thank you so much. coming up, the trump administration's plan to end birthright citizenship hit another snag. what a second judge has now just ruled. first, though, what the white house and aides are signaling behind the scenes about elon musk even as he leads a takeover of critical he leads a takeover of critical u.s. agencies. some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking allstate first. okay, let's get going. can everybody see that?

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states including california and texas, prize picks. run your game. >> the white house says newly

minted special government employee elon musk isn't acting unilaterally, as he hacks and slashes his way through the federal government. trump has suggested the president has suggested publicly, and aides have signaled behind the scenes to nbc news that musk is still a staffer and does report to the white house and its chief of staff, siouxsie wiles. but that alleged oversight has not stopped concerns about the power musk has amassed in three weeks. and the way he's wielded it. slate's dahlia lithwick writes that if this were happening in any other country, we'd be calling it a coup, saying, quote, what do we call it when the president is too lazy to gut the government himself, giving away power to a zealous and unaccountable friend? call it a double self-coup, an autogolpe, a power grab. the label matters less than the reality unfolding before our eyes. a systematic dismantling of democratic institutions in favor of unchecked executive power and personal rule, with no regard

for constitutional constraints or accountability. joining us now, slate senior editor and legal correspondent dahlia lithwick, who wrote that. she's also an msnbc law and politics analyst. and also david french of the opinion section of the new york times. thank you guys so much. dahlia, first to you. this has been a pretty significant attempt at a power grab. what is the legality here? how much legal authority does elon musk have to get into the treasury department's financial system? how much legal authority does musk have to decide what what congressionally approved money gets spent and what does not? >> i mean, i. >> think there's. >> two levels of. >> abstraction, katy. one is. >> just basic. >> constitutional principles of. >> separation of powers. >> right? we know. >> that congress. >> creates government departments. >> it created us aid. >> that's not. >> up to debate. it's appropriations.

>> it's funded. >> by acts. >> of congress. so at the most. >> sort of high. >> level, you. >> know, the congress has the. >> power of the purse. >> the congress creates a. >> government entities, and you don't. >> get to run around. >> with a sharpie. >> kind of. >> effectuating a line item. >> veto because. >> you. don't like. >> certain government. >> branches or agencies. >> i think at a much, much. >> more granular. >> level, there's. >> a whole. >> host of. >> laws being. >> broken here. >> and it runs the gamut. >> from, you. >> know, 18. >> u.s.c. 208. >> that allows somebody who is in. >> government to. >> not act in ways that. >> affect their own. >> personal income and interest. the ethics. in government act. >> same thing. >> you have. >> to have massive. >> disclosures if you're. >> personally going to benefit from actions you take in government. >> there's a host. >> of laws and statutes that. >> you can talk about, but just at the most. >> basic level, this is not. how

any of this is done. elon musk. was elected by nobody. he. >> as you said, answers to nobody. >> doge is not. really a. >> government agency as we. >> understand it. so it just looks like kind. >> of a guy. running around. >> doing a little bit of. >> smash and. >> grab and answering to nobody at all. >> the argument from the white house would be that donald trump was elected. donald trump campaigned with elon musk. he campaigned on elon musk getting into the government and making it more effective, making it more, you know, financially stable. they wanted to cut all this money from the government. so the authority was actually granted to the white house. david, do you see it that way? >> well. >> i mean, look, donald trump won the election popular vote, electoral college. >> but he did not run on. i'm going to have elon musk break the law. that is not. >> how he ran. and look right now, though. >> there's a lot of confusion. >> to what. extent have laws been broken? to what extent are

norms being broken? to what extent are we talking about reshuffling parts of the executive branch that are completely un actually under trump's control? there is an enormous amount of confusion, but my response to the trump team is certainly, absolutely. >> you ran with elon musk. >> there's no question he was jumping up and down on. >> the stage with you, but you're not running on. i'm going. to violate. >> the constitution with elon. >> musk, or i'm going to violate federal law with elon musk. and this is. why the legal. >> aspect of the response to donald trump is becoming very quickly. >> the most important aspect of the response, because the. democrats are. >> out of power in congress. there isn't a big mass popular movement in the streets. the fight is really moving into the courtrooms, and it's in the courtrooms that are going to really expose the exact nature of doge. >> doge's involvement. >> with the government. but, katie, that if we just focus on doge, we're missing the forest.

>> for the trees. it's incident after. >> incident after incident is. >> unfolding all with the. >> same impulse. >> which is. to absolutely. >> transform our understanding of the american presidency and donald trump's powers. >> that is the through. >> line through various different scandals. >> why isn't he trying to do it through congress? i mean, he can he can try to affect his agenda through congress. if he has all of that authority and all that big mandate from the american public, he's got a majority in the house, slim. he's got a majority in the senate, also. slim. why isn't he trying to legislate these changes? >> well. >> katie. legislation is hard. executive orders are easy. >> is it because he's not actually as powerful as he's claiming to be? >> well, he is not as. >> powerful as he. >> claiming to be. and even when you have a lot of power in congress, you still. >> have to go. >> through a. >> process that can. >> be. >> long, that involves compromises where you have to accommodate other people's ideas. look, when. when barack. >> obama won and he came into office.

>> in 2009. >> he had. >> a much bigger congressional majority. >> than donald trump has. >> ever had. and yet it was a. long and painful process. >> for. >> obama to negotiate the affordable care act. >> donald trump. >> doesn't. >> want to do any of that. he wants to make things happen now, law. >> be darned. you know. >> he. >> constitutional tradition be to. >> be cast aside. >> and that's why i say that this is a. an absolutely. >> the through. >> line here is he's trying to remake. >> the. >> american presidency. >> because our normal. >> separation of powers. >> katie is just. >> too slow. >> it doesn't allow him to have his full will enacted. >> and that's what he's pushing towards right now. >> i wonder we're talking if we're going to talk about the legal avenue of this dahlia. where does it end up first? does it go to the federal judges? is there a pathway directly to the supreme court. if elon musk is putting people's financial or medical information at risk, and there is reporting that he might be. is there a way to get this ruled on quickly? and if so, do you have a sense of where the supreme court might fall on

separation of powers? >> katie. >> sometimes it feels like a million years ago. but if you. >> remember. >> the initial trump. >> efforts in. >> the first trump era were. hopscotched to the supreme court really quickly, right? >> because everything. >> became an emergency. >> and donald trump's. >> justice department. >> if they got. >> an adverse. >> ruling saying the travel ban case and the citizens. >> census case, they. >> would race. >> to the. >> supreme court. so i. expect that what we're going to see. >> and we're. >> already seeing. >> a. >> host of. >> lawsuits being filed by groups across the. boards that are challenging. >> kind. >> of. every component of everything. david just talked about. those cases. >> are going to. >> result in nationwide injunctions. >> we already have an injunction in the birthright citizenship case. i think we're going to. >> see in a whole bunch of these. cases about how doj's was. >> constituted, about the. >> freeze. >> the impoundment question. >> we've already. >> seen a lot of judges weighing

in. >> so what we're. >> going. >> to see is a. >> whole bunch. >> of emergency. >> injunctions. >> and then we're going to. >> see them race. >> it up to the. supreme court. >> and say, you know, when, when, when. but we want to do the thing. >> and at that point, i think it's almost anybody's guess. >> it really. >> depends on. >> the. >> question that comes. before the court, whether. >> you're going. >> to see. >> that center, quote, unquote, center. >> of the court. >> that is john roberts and amy coney barrett side. with the liberals for ideas. that the 14th amendment kind. >> of means. >> what it says it means, and you can't erase that. i think that's probably going to happen in. birthright citizenship. but some of these claims. >> of. >> broad, broad executive. >> power, including. >> these theories of. >> the unitary. >> executive. >> this is stuff that john roberts cut his. >> teeth on. so you may see trump get a lot of wins on some of these cases. and what's just kind of chilling right now is don't forget, this is. >> the. >> selfsame supreme. >> court that on july 1st of last year, announced that donald trump, for the first time in american history, without any.

>> real force. >> or. >> doctrine behind. >> it. >> that donald trump has. >> almost certainly the. >> broadest immunity. >> we've ever seen. >> so that's the court. >> now that. >> you're. >> asking about. in a new data. >> point. >> i'm curious about what they're going to do on impoundment and whether they believe congress does have that authority or if the executive can subsume it, because if it can, that that separation of powers doesn't feel so separate at that point, it feels like it's all going to rest within the executive. all right. dahlia lithwick, david french i'm sure we'll be talking about this again. thank you guys. still ahead, the president is moments away from signing an executive order banning transgender women from competing in women's sports. why? critics are calling the move a solution in search of a problem. we're going to get some actual data on this first, though. the new raids, ice and the dea conducted on an apartment complex in denver, what the trump administration says they were doing there.

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and they're sensations too. get started today at sitter city. >> donald trump is about to sign an executive order at the white house banning transgender women from competing in women's sports. we're going to talk about this topic a little bit later in the show. but first, we want to get to one of the other big stories of the day. and this is on immigration and customs enforcement officials have arrested more than 100 people at a denver apartment complex this morning, assisted by the fbi,

atf and dea. ice said it was targeting alleged members of a venezuelan gang, but federal officials have yet to release the names of those arrested or any other specifics about who was detained. joining us now, nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. julia, they're you know, they're asking for a lot of news coverage on on what they're doing. are they giving reporters clarity on who exactly they've been able to detain and whether what they're doing right now breaks from any recent precedent? >> yeah. well. >> katie. >> for one thing, those numbers are even. >> in question. i mean. >> you. mentioned 100. we understand there were 100 targets when they started this operation. >> how many. >> they've actually been able to arrest. remains unclear. >> also, when they say that. >> someone is tied. >> to this gang. >> de aragua, which trump wants to designate as a. >> foreign terrorist organization. >> that's that venezuelan gang. it's unclear if they've actually been convicted. >> of criminal. >> activity, or if. >> maybe they. >> just. >> have a tattoo. >> by the way. >> one of the. >> tattoos that. >> that gang. >> uses is roses, a really

common tattoo. >> so sometimes. >> it can be really hard to establish. >> that affiliation. >> and we're not able to get insight into exactly how they're identifying the people. >> in that apartment building, or the ten people that they designated to. >> be de. >> aragua members that they. >> sent to guantanamo. bay yesterday on a military aircraft. but it's. >> certainly a. >> big point when you talk about what they're doing. >> for the media. the messaging is. >> pictures like that. >> katie, pictures with a. >> flash bang. coming in in the wee hours of the morning. definitely getting. >> a lot of community fear. someone watches that, then they're also afraid of what's going to happen in their apartment building, their part of america. and one of the. >> charges that has been given to ice agents. >> is they go out to do these operations is to take pictures so that we continue to see visions like that without actually getting as much data on who is being arrested and what they've been convicted of. >> yep, they want to show it to everyone. julia ainsley, thank you very much. coming up next, trump makes good on a campaign promise. you can see it right here. he's about to sign an executive order banning transgender women from women's

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cheryl cook. before we go to this, cheryl, i want to just play a little bit of sound from the president signing this order. >> the trump administration, we will defend the proud tradition of female athletes, and we will not allow men to beat up, injure and cheat our women and our girls. from now on, women's sports will be only for women. >> this was such a big campaign issue, and a lot of parents felt like it was just something that was fundamentally unfair to have transgender boys play with play with girls because of the just the dynamics, the bodily dynamics there. i'm just curious, what are the actual numbers on this? how many, how many instances of transgender girls were playing in women's sports? >> yeah, i think this is really the ban is. >> the executive order is really a solution.

>> in search of a problem. >> that if we look at the. >> numbers of. transgender athletes who are participating in sports. >> the estimates. >> are really. a very. >> although it's. >> estimated to be. >> around ten. >> athletes. >> i. >> believe the ncaa. >> president came. >> out and spoke to congress. >> that he. >> knows of. ten athletes. >> who are. >> competing at. >> the ncaa. >> level. >> high school level. estimates are a bit. >> tougher to. >> pin down, although. >> i've seen researchers. >> throw out, you. >> know, ten, 20, 40. >> possibly 100. >> athletes that. are identifying. >> as transgender and take. >> into. >> consideration that at the ncaa. >> level, there's 544,000. >> athletes who are participating. >> so that's. >> ten athletes. >> out of 544,000. >> and then the millions. of girls that are participating. >> in high school sports. >> or maybe. >> talking about, you know, a handful of. >> athletes in those. at that.

>> level of. >> competition as well. and so. >> there are some. >> states that have bans. >> against transgender participation. even before the executive order went. >> into. >> place, a state like utah, where in fact. >> there was really no. transgender athlete. >> that had been. >> identified as. participating at the high school level. >> so, so certainly this is. >> a let me let me get these numbers up there. we have the utah governor, spencer cox. here's the numbers that he cited, 75,000 high school kids participating in high school sports for transgender kids playing in high school sports in utah, one transgender student playing in girls sports. so, i mean, it's not zero, but one one in the entire state of utah. the numbers are really small, and i point that out because it became such a big campaign issue, it made it seem like it was happening everywhere and that every, you know, girls team was at risk of. of either having unfair competition or, as the

president just said, being beat up by somebody. it i'm struggling to understand unless it's just pure, a pure politics play, why there is so much attention on an issue that is just so infinitesimally small, and you're just talking about a handful of kids, you're really just targeting a handful of kids. >> yeah. >> and i think the point that you're making is spot on, right, that the bans. >> aren't about transgender participation. >> this isn't about. >> saving women's sports or protecting girls and women in sports. >> and if so, then. >> we really. >> should be focusing. on the. actual issues. >> that are threats. >> to girls. >> and. >> women in sports, such as the lack. >> of access and opportunity. >> the lack. >> of funding, the. >> lack of media coverage. >> sexual abuse and harassment in. >> sports spaces. >> right? the ban itself. >> i think. >> is part of a. >> larger context. >> by which. >> there's an effort to reassert conventional and traditional

gender. norms in society. >> this is part. >> of a larger. attack on. >> bodily autonomy for. >> women and. for folks who identify as women. and so really, for me, as as a scholar who studies sports, it's. >> such an. >> interesting site for thinking. >> through the. >> ways in. >> which sport isn't necessarily reflecting. gender as it exists. >> in our society. >> but sport. >> really plays a powerful. >> role in. >> sort. >> of constituting gender. right? >> so the. >> reassertion of biological difference between men and women can really happen in the space of sports, because it is sex segregated. >> yeah, it feels like a proxy to politically capitalize on a social issue. social fears and discomfort in this country. again, donald trump just signing this executive order. sheryl cook, thanks so much for joining us and helping us understand just the raw data on this. i think it's important context that everybody could use. that's that everybody could use. that's going to do it for me today. it ain't my dad's razor, dad.

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