off at ro covid. >> looking beyond washington, d.c, across our entire planet, i want to give you an update. did you know that january, which we just experienced, including those terrible fires in california, was actually the hottest month ever? the record set by quite a margin. you can see it here. you can understand what's going on on earth from the fires, from the rising sea level, or from charts like this where you just see what path we're on. and so we remind you, whatever you take from that, start with the facts. the world is getting hotter from the way we're living on earth. there is still time to do things about it. just a little update at the end of the hour. that does it for us. the reidout the joy reid starts right now. hi joy. >> thanks a lot, ari. i was. >> already stressed out. >> and now you're bringing me down even more.

>> but thanks for that, buddy. just facts. >> we could all keep in mind. >> keep it in mind. thank you very much, i appreciate you. >> all right. we've got a lot. >> to get to. >> in this. >> hour of the reidout. including. what about her emails? remember that now, trump's cia has committed what's being called a counterintelligence disaster by reportedly sending the names of recently hired cia employees to the white house in an unclassified email. plus, fear and outrage in the middle east after trump's irresponsible remarks about turning gaza into a riviera of the middle east, permanently stealing the homes of 2 million gazans. but we begin tonight with growing glimmers of the rebel alliance. look at these scenes as thousands of americans in 50 states took to the streets today to reject the maga hostile takeover of american democracy, denouncing everything from donald trump's calls to occupy gaza to his project 2025 playbook and the seemingly unlimited authority trump has handed to elon musk. with zero

checks and balances and no oversight. barely two weeks into the trump administration, signs of the collapse of constitutional order ushered in by musk, an unelected south african born billionaire and a handful of teen and young adult employees from his private companies are everywhere. musk and his junior staffers have infected government agencies, potentially illegally pushing out tens of thousands of civil servants and gaining unfettered access to some of the federal government's most sensitive payment systems. think social security student loans and federal grants to businesses and organizations serving seniors and the poor. plus, the private personnel files of potentially every federal employee and maybe every american social security number. republicans have met this power grab by a bunch of tech bros young enough to be their kids, with what can only be called cowardly capitulation. they've called democrats and

legacy media hysterical for saying, hey, maybe a bunch of 20 something 20 somethings that nobody elected shouldn't be rooting around in our personal data with zero knowledge of how basic government functions and no oversight. i mean, would you would you be comfortable with a precocious teenager stepping in and performing open heart surgery on you? i doubt it. so why should we be cool with random elon staffers barging into federal government offices and taking over the systems that make sure your mom and dad get their social security checks, your kids get head start, or your autistic son gets a special education aide at school. look, i get i get it that many americans eyes just glaze over about a bunch of agencies with alphabet names. but believe it or not, these agencies help keep us safe and alive. epa the environmental protection agency makes sure americans have clean air, land, and water by regulating how much drunk oil and chemical companies can dump into our rivers and streams. how

do you make america wealthy again with cancer causing poisons flowing into the tap water? doe the department of education does not, i repeat, does not set school curriculums, but it does help kids with special needs get grants so that they have support in our public schools. faa, the federal aviation administration regulates civil aviation to make sure the planes don't fall out of the sky like has already happened twice in 24 hours in the first nine days of trump 2.0. fda, the food and drug administration makes sure that the foods you eat, the lipstick you put on, and the pills you take don't kill you. eggs are expensive right now because there's a bird flu killing birds, cows, and humans. i suspect you want the fda to make sure that you're now more expensive. waffle house eggs don't kill you, right? noaa, the national oceanic and atmospheric administration warns us about tornadoes and hurricanes. i

think floridians would, you know, kind of like to know when to take shelter when 100 mile an hour winds are coming. but, you know, maybe i'm wrong. then there's the consumer financial protection bureau, which was set up to make sure that banks and credit card companies don't take you to the cleaners with crazy fees or get us into another mortgage crisis like they did in 2008. and then there's usaid, which for about 1% of our federal budget helps america counter russian and chinese influence around the world by helping countries struggling with famine and war and child trafficking. without them, even more desperate people are likely to wind up here. immigration opponents all of these agencies could go the way of the dodo bird if musk has his way. joni mitchell once wrote, you don't know what you've got till it's gone. well, we're about to find out, because we could very well be headed into a completely deregulated world run by artificial intelligence, mega enforcers and elon fanboys who

will make america work about as well as twitter. what could possibly go wrong? joining me now is senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts. please correct me if i got any of that wrong. >> you didn't. >> okay. >> and i want to say what was really lovely about what you just said is just to remind people we built a government to work for all of us. yes. you know, we're just all better off if, in fact, the bird flu gets under control and that our eggs won't kill us, we are all better off. we're better off. we make these investments in infrastructure. we make these investments in our payment system so people don't get cheated. that's how we keep the economy going. and look, bless everybody who gets out there and makes a fortune. bless everybody who gets up every day and goes to work. but understand the underpinnings of all of that are something we all invested in. and now we've got donald trump

and his co-president, elon musk, and they're just running a wrecking ball through it. and it's not like it's an abstract problem. it is really and truly the kid who needs an aid to be able to sit in class so that they can get an education. taking that aid away and maybe taking away that whole classroom, it's these very real ways that people are touched by this. >> yeah. i mean, and the thing is, when you say we, the american people hire people like you, we hire congress members, and we hire united states senators to make the budget that even elon musk's contracts come from the money that he gets. and that made him rich, came from the american taxpayer. hiring senators, hiring congress members. they do an appropriation because the constitution says it's y'all's job. it is the congress's job. what trump is trying to reset

here is to say, no, congress can do whatever it wants. i'm spending this money myself, and he's authorized. this is the one that blows my mind. senator, a private citizen and a bunch of his 20 something and teenage henchmen have your social security number, and mine, our moms, anybody's mom's social security number. they can turn off your student loans. they can turn off head start. who gave them that? right? >> right. they can not only turn it off. the other thing is, are you sure they didn't copy any of it while they're in there? >> this is the other thing. and the piece is that so? supposedly they want to use ai to try to make these cuts, right? they don't know anything about government. so they're going to let the ai bots do it. this is the fear i think i have, and i'm sure that you have, is that these unregulated people who apparently are giving some security clearances to could download that data. data is the coin of the realm. they could use it to train the ai grok that he's got for twitter. they could literally use it to profit, and we've not given them permission to do it. >> that's right. and in order to

get into this system, understand this is like one of the most protected systems in the world. it's just a tiny handful of people who've had access to it and who understand what it works in order to get in. how many fences did they have to knock down? how many gates did they have to open, and how many people are sliding in behind them? i don't know, iranian hackers, north korean hackers, black hats from anywhere around the world. in other words, we had a banking hearing this morning, and one of the questions that democrats asked, we had 2 or 3 bankers. there is would you let someone come in and see your customer's private banking data? right. and these bankers were like, oh no, never. absolutely not. no no no no no. so why is it okay for elon musk and a handful of people just to come in and say, you know what, we're just going to root around here for a while and then while

they're at it, why should we have the slightest bit of confidence that they're not turning off programs they don't like? they've already indicated just a week before that anything they want to shut down, they should just shut down. let's get into this. >> funding for a moment. the claim from republicans is that they've only got read only access. the white house spokesperson said that today, but elon musk himself posted on his twitter, no, no, no, we turned off the funding to this lutheran organization. so he's admitting that they are doing more than there's also some wired reporting and other reporting that they might be downloading software onto it. we literally are told, don't click on anything on our phone because you might download malware. we don't know what that software is. you all don't know what that software is. if a if a foreign government was doing this, we would say that the federal government is having a cyber attack. oh, absolutely. you all passed a law banning tiktok because of the fear that the chinese government could get access to our personal data. >> exactly right. and so now

elon musk has got access to all of his personal data. that's exactly right. >> what can be done about this? >> so look, the first thing we can do is we just have to we have to raise our voices about this. remember last week last week they cut off funding. they said we're going to do a pause on everything that has federal funding. and what did people do? >> 22 states sued. >> we went to the courts. right. and we also raised our voices. think how many people stood up and said, whoa, whoa, whoa. i want everybody to know that's my little organization here. that's my small business that can't get off. that's my nih. i'm working on trying to cure cancer here, guys. and you just cut off my funding. i'm going to have to shut down my small business. how many people spoke out and what happened? we've got the courts in place now. and i think the appetite for going through and trying to shut these down, at least the warning shot has been fired. so. okay, so we've held the line there. now we come to the second one. elon musk comes

in and it's 2.0. yeah. instead of doing it program by program now they've got their fingers on the keys to do it person by person right. we don't know. they could retaliate against his. >> his competitors. how is ford comfortable the company with their competitor having the ability to turn off their federal grants, their contracts. he could literally have an advantage against his fellow company. i do fafsa, i've done fafsa. my kids are now out of college. you put so much personal data in there. what if one, you know, we don't know who these young people are. we've got their names, some of them in wired. what if there's someone that they just have a beef with and they say, now i've got their data. i know where they live. i know their social security number. i've got their banking information. they have people's tax returns. >> so this is the moment when we really start rallying the troops. people tell the stories. they do not want their personal data exposed to some unelected billionaire and a handful of people that he has picked out,

that we're just not going to do that. and i really want to emphasize here, this is a time when people have power. we showed it last week by stepping up. we can show it again now. people need to stand up and tell these stories. yeah. every time you go on social media and say, you know, i got to thinking, i actually benefit from a federal grant, or they have my name, they have my social security. anybody ever file taxes? yeah, they have access. you can't all for free. >> one of the things that they've gotten rid of is the free tax filing. i know you. >> say that. >> you're not even sure. >> the chaos is unbelievable in this system. so that is why it is so important. now you see that senators have taken to the floor. we're holding the floor. we're going to hold the floor all night long. yeah, we are in this fight and you can start to feel it. now. >> let me ask you the two things i fear two. two fears i have. number one is that this goes to the supreme court. and john

roberts, who seems to believe in the unitary executive theory, says, nope. the c the consumer financial protection bureau is unconstitutional. donald trump has the constitutional right of the purse. it is the president that has it. he needs to act boldly and that they use this, the cases against this to establish unitary executive basically make a king. that's one. and the second is how can you trust your republican colleagues? they should be they should be here. they should be sitting right where you are screaming about this. they and some of your democratic colleagues who are willing to vote for republican members of the cabinet, john fetterman just did that, or willing to go and canoodle with donald trump. not all the democrats seem to be on your side either. >> so i want to describe it this way. i think that we are beginning to get the troops together. they are. everyone is starting to see the risk here on the democratic side. but boy, i like the way you put it. joy, where are the republicans? yeah, you should have seen their faces as they voted to confirm robert kennedy jr. they knew they. senator cassidy. >> is a doctor. >> they knew. and yet there they

were. you should have seen their faces the night that we voted on secretary of defense. >> oh my goodness. >> credibly accused sexual predator who falling down drunk on work events and drove not one but two nonprofits directly into the ground. but the point is on on both of these. remember what happened? i get it. they have the majority. they were able to shove those on through, but they didn't get a freebie. we stood there, we talked about these nominees. we made sure you made sure others made sure in the press that the american people saw what the republicans are signing on to for republicans, if we could get four republican senators, we could shut this whole thing down. we just got to keep turning up the heat and turning up the heat. >> americans, it is important to have civics to know what these agencies are. and i'll bet it sounded real cute to have the guy from real world boston run

the transportation, the department of transportation, or, you know, to be the secretary of transportation until two planes collided. two plane collisions happened in two days. then all of a sudden, having a guy from the real world boston running that entire agency doesn't really seem so smart. and probably people don't feel that comfortable. senator elizabeth warren, always appreciate you. thank you very much. and coming up, trump's efforts to take a blowtorch to every single facet of the federal government continues at full pace. we will have more on how it's targeting and destabilizing. get this the cia. destabilizing. get this the cia. everything's fine. that's next. have you always had trouble with your weight? same. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i'm keeping the weight off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only weight-management medicine proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events such as death, heart attack, or stroke

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powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business. government, the people trump and elon musk have been planted at the central intelligence agency are doing their part by selling out the names of new hires. the new york times first reported that the cia sent the white house an unclassified email listing all of all employees hired over the last two years to comply with an executive order to shrink the federal workforce. the list included first names and the first initial of the last name of the new hires, who are still on probation. it included a large crop of young analysts and operatives who were hired specifically to focus on china, whose identities are usually guarded because chinese hackers are constantly trying to

identify them. one former agency officer called the reporting of names in an unclassified email. a counterintelligence disaster. joining me now is former cia director john brennan, msnbc senior national security and intelligence analyst. director brennan, i can tell you that when we saw this headline, our heads nearly exploded over here in readout world. i can only imagine how shocked and outraged you are. but can you just break down for us what the danger of what they did is? >> well, there is quite a bit of danger to what appears to have been a careless and reckless use of this information, and passing it on an unclassified system. many individuals who join the cia enter the agency undercover, and so therefore their employment is not known to others, including family and friends. and because they're going to be engaged frequently in various activities around the globe that you want to not have any association with the cia.

now, according to the press reports, all the hires the last two years. i mean, this could include individuals, as i pointed out, the sort of china experts that have very specific and uncommon ethnic names or an unusual spelling of their names. and they have relocated to the washington, d.c. area. and so the chinese counterintelligence experts will go together and put put all the pieces that they can pick out from either this unclassified email, as well as from other things that are available in a digital dust as a way to identify individuals who now may be working for the cia. so again, it can compromise the identities and compromise the future professional capabilities of these individuals who have joined the cia. and now it looks like since it's focused on the last two years, this is part of, again, the trump administration's revenge activities against individuals that may have been hired during the biden administration. >> right. and, i mean, i'm old enough to remember when hillary

clinton was dragged through the mud. and in some cases, republicans still complain about her having some ce marked material inside of the information in her inside of her server, the server that she had at home. there's been no allegation that she's ever disclosed or exposed cia assets in this way. and it does seem that part of this is they're sort of anti dei crusade. it doesn't make sense to me if this is the plan and we don't know. this is why they are looking for this list that you want to have. only non-ethnic people in the cia that you don't want to have people with a background that is relevant to the countries that they're going to be working in, that you want to have people who have chinese ancestry, who know the language, who have family connections, like, don't you want that diversity in cia work? is it really better to have just only white christian males who love trump? >> the cia cannot do its work

unless its workforce is diverse. it has that diversity that is so important for the cia to be operate worldwide, to be able to operate in asia and middle east and other places that have not just the linguistic and maybe ethnic sort of, you know, association with various parts of the world or countries, but also have a cultural familiarity with what it is that we're doing overseas. so when i was cia director, i really emphasized the importance of diversity, equity and inclusion because, you know, it just makes good business sense. it makes good professional sense to have people who have all different backgrounds and experiences and looks and, you know, characteristics. so yes, if this is something that is just designed to try to uncover individuals who have come in under what they purport to be dei initiatives, clearly this is going to hurt the cia's ability to carry out its very vital national security mission. and i'm sure it has sent shockwaves through the agency that already, i think, reeling as a result of some of the things that are

going on in this administration. the new team at cia is there for, what, two weeks only? there are thoughtful ways to do some of the things that they want to do, like reduction in workforce. they put out this this notice to cia that people can resign. that is just very ham handed. >> this is a this is a this is it's not really a buyout. they keep calling it a buyout. essentially it's resign on your own on the hope that you will get eight months pay. it's a conditional sort of offer. and an aide to cia director john ratcliffe said the agency is freezing the hiring of job seekers who have already been given a conditional offer. so they're freezing hiring, telling everyone who works at the cia, feel free to please leave. how are we supposed to defend our national security if they kick everyone out and then only hire back people who have pledged eternal allegiance to donald trump? like, i just don't understand the logistical how this actually is supposed to work to make us safer as a country. i don't get it. >> well, there are just so many years of experience that cia

officers need in order to carry out their duties, you know, fully. and if you remove those individuals, you're really going to not have that capability for the cia to carry out its mission in far off corners of the world. there are thoughtful and appropriate ways to do workforce reduction. if there are certain disciplines or job categories that you no longer need as many people of. but this across the board, it's just, again, it's hard to understand how the leadership of the cia really believes that this is going to enable the cia to continue to carry out its so such a vital mission, particularly at a time when we face such global challenges. and so, again, i think it just, you know, it's hard to explain. >> i mean, i would say that, you know, the cia isn't obviously perfect and has had a history that includes being really wrong about iraq. but part of that is not understanding culturally what is going on in the middle east fully. you would think you'd want more people who might be able to help not get things wrong. do you also fear, as some fbi agents who've had this same

kind of disclosures threatened, that this could be used by donald trump, who, let's remember, did illegally take home classified data that we still don't know what all he had. this feels like he himself, on a national security level is not careful. and now, if he wanted to retaliate against cia individuals, fbi individuals, he and these 20 somethings and teenagers who they're letting access this information could really have at it, and they've got a social media place with which to do it if they want it. >> it's worrisome on so many levels. joy, in terms of people who really don't have the background or experience having access to very classified information and classified systems and what they might be doing there, and trying to bring people on board and making sure that we do the appropriate vetting, that we do the background investigations for them so that we can entrust them with this nation's secrets. but if you're going to really, you know, reduce the size of the workforce so rapidly, like we're doing, not just at the cia, but also fbi, department of justice and other places, the government

is going to be without, again, the requisite background experience that is necessary on the law enforcement front, on the intelligence front, national security front. so again, this is just, you know, something that is really quite worrisome. >> and we should keep in mind we have no idea what they're doing. and we can only speculate because there's no disclosure and there's no transparency, which leads us here to sort of sort of use our imaginations as to what could be happening. former cia director john brennan, we truly appreciate you. thank you. and coming up, trump's rapid turn from america first to potentially putting americans on the front lines of americans on the front lines of the middle east. that's next. [coughing] copd isn't pretty. from the struggle to breathe... to getting stopped in your tracks. bye, grandma. ♪♪ but with trelegy, i can finally move forward. with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups.

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♪ grocery outlet bargain market years of building up foreign nations, defending foreign borders and protecting foreign lands, we are finally going to build up our country, defend our borders and protect our citizens. i brought our troops back home. no new wars. no new wars. we don't need the wars. foreign lands, countries you've never heard of, countries that don't even want us there. >> remember that donald trump, who on the campaign trail said that under his leadership, america would no longer engage in stupid wars? well, last night that donald trump changed his tune. >> you're talking tonight. >> about the united states. >> taking over a. sovereign territory. >> what authority would allow

you to do that? are you talking about a permanent occupation? they're redevelopment. >> i do see a long term ownership position, and i see it bringing great stability to that part of the middle east and maybe the entire middle east. >> given what you've said about. >> gaza. >> did the us send. >> troops to help secure the security vacuum? >> as far as gaza. >> is concerned, we'll do what is necessary. if it's necessary, we'll do that. >> today, white house press secretary caroline leavitt defended trump's frankly bizarre plan, calling it an out of the box idea. i guess that's one way to describe imperial annexation. leavitt also dodged questions about whether trump would indeed deploy the military to forcibly remove palestinians from gaza. leaders in egypt, saudi arabia and jordan have firmly rejected this plan, unsurprisingly. joining me now is ben rhodes, msnbc political analyst and former deputy national security advisor to president obama. i was gobsmacked when i heard this live last night. i wonder what

your reaction was and what you're hearing from friends and colleagues in the middle east. >> well, i mean, i think people. >> are just baffled. >> joy. >> he had. >> said the. >> part about. >> essentially the ethnic cleansing of. gaza before the idea that the 2 million people that live there that don't want to leave the leave there should just move to egypt or jordan. pretty remarkable that restating that position was not the most shocking thing that trump said. >> in that press conference. but when he. >> talked about the u.s. taking ownership of. >> gaza. >> recognizing that the people of gaza don't want to leave the people in egypt and the governments of egypt and jordan don't want to take in 2 million people from gaza. not clear exactly where the israeli government stands. obviously, the israeli right wing would like to see gaza depopulated, but don't necessarily want to see it as a real estate property of the united states. suffice to say, like nobody i've talked to thinks that this is a workable proposal. nobody knows where it came from. it seems to have come just from trump. there was no

preparation done, as there usually is before these meetings. for a major proposal like this to be floated. so on the one hand, people aren't taking it that seriously. on the other hand, it's an alarming extension of what he's been saying about territorial expansion in greenland and panama and other places. so this seems to be a feature, not a bug of the second trump term. just two weeks into it. >> yeah, it went from it's gone from no new wars to like five new wars. let's let's talk about those who are taking it seriously and those who are not. here is speaker mike johnson, who is a very firm evangelical and has certain views about it that flow from that. here he is. >> yeah. >> we're trying to get the details. >> of it, but i think this is a good development. we have to back israel 100%. and so whatever form that takes, we're interested in having that discussion. but it's it was a surprising development. but i think it's one that we'll applaud. >> and a little bit of variety here. republicans thom tillis and senator lindsey graham.

>> i haven't seen the firsthand account, but obviously it's not going to happen. >> i think that'd be a tough place to be assigned if you're an american soldier. so, yeah, we'll see what the arab world says. but, you know, that'd be problematic at many, many levels. >> and when lindsey graham is against it and he's not literally jumping up for donald trump like a marionette, marco rubio, the now secretary of state, asked about this idea of taking control of gaza. he attempted to suggest that trump was only proposing to clear out and rebuild gaza. not sure what that means, and not claim indefinite possession of the palestinian territory. and he's saying the only thing trump has done very generously, in my view, is offer the united states willingness to step in and clear the debris, clean the place up from all destruction, including unexploded munitions, so that people can move back in. no, what he actually said is we will own it. we will take over gaza. we will own it. why the confusion inside the confusion inside the party? what does that tell you about whether this is a real plan or some sort of negotiating tactic?

>> well. >> first of all. >> this is like the most sensitive issue in the world. this is a war in gaza that's been ongoing for a year and a half. this is the israeli-palestinian conflict. so this is him commenting on something that everybody knew would be a huge focus of his meeting with netanyahu. all these comments suggest to me, joy, there was no process that produced this idea. the secretary of state seemed to have learned about this from the press conference the same way that we did. so it's not like trump floated this and had a process to decide that this is the right thing to discuss with the israeli prime minister and then announce to the entire world. that's the first point. that's clear to me. the second point is they're trying to kind of put lipstick on this thing by saying, well, it's out of the box thinking, and, well, we want to come in and just clear out the rubble and the debris. well, but even that would be a seismic change in how the united states thinks of its role in the israeli-palestinian conflict. are the 2 million people that live in gaza just going to move out of the way so american

troops can come in and clear some rubble? they don't want to leave gaza because they don't want to end up like every other palestinian refugee that is stuck in jordan and stuck in lebanon and has never been allowed to go home. lindsey graham talks about we have to wait to see what the arab world says. he knows what they were going to say. they said it today. no, we do not support this plan. and so donald trump is proposing something that would be a dramatic escalation of u.s. military involvement in the israeli-palestinian conflict. that is not welcome in gaza. that is going to infuriate, if not radicalize, american enemies around the world and is just has no process behind it. there's no part two to the plan other than him saying, we'll clear out the rubble and turn this into the riviera of the middle east. and this is the real world. and this is, i think, what people have to understand, joy in the news cycle of american politics. he says something, people react, oh, that's funny. oh that's crazy. oh, it's a great out of the box idea. the rest of the world is dealing in reality,

which is that the 2 million people in gaza that have no self-determination and no one knows what's going to happen to them, and they're not going to make allowances for donald trump in the same way that, you know, republicans in congress are going to. >> let me ask you this, because, you know, donald trump clearly has imperial instincts. he thinks he's sort of the, you know, the remake of william mckinley. and he's going to go around the world grabbing territory. and he sort of has an expansionist view, much like bibi netanyahu. but i wonder how that reads in the middle east, where they're very sensitive to the idea of american imperialism, the iraq war. it pricked those sensibilities in a huge way. trump pretended he was against the war, but he was very much for it by donald trump, signaling that he would do an iraq war on steroids and position u.s. troops in gaza, which is what he's talking about. if you're going to even clear the rubble, how much danger does that put us in? and what does that do to our relationships in the region? >> i mean, it presents layers of danger to us because, first of all, if he actually tried to go forward with this, then suddenly

we are making ourselves the enemy of not just hamas, but of all manner of extremist groups that do not want the united states to have a military presence, not just in the middle east, but expressly in the palestinian territories. so it is kind of poking the hornet's nest of potential terrorist threats to this country. it is going to alienate all the people and countries in that region as well. that would not want us there either. and then i think more broadly, if you pull back the camera, the rest of the world is looking at this and thinking, he seems to be coming back to the white house with the kind of aging autocrats desire for a territorial legacy. he's talking about greenland. he's talking about panama, he's talking about gaza. this is not a coincidence that he keeps coming back to this. and i think the rest of the world is going to decide, hey, we have to kind of resist this drift back towards american territorial expansionism. >> and indeed this while he's making noises about judea and samaria and maybe handing over the west bank to the far right

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powers, in some instances, to expropriate land from people who accumulated it during apartheid, to the detriment of indigenous south africans. the law aims to address some of the wrongs of south africa's racist apartheid era, but musk has cast the law as a threat to south africa's white minority. the billionaire, who grew up as a privileged and wealthy white south african during apartheid, often accuses the post-apartheid government of anti-white racism. his false ethno nationalist claims are likely why trump is promising to punish south africa over the land law. in fact, the official twitter page of the presidency of the republic of south africa announced that president cyril ramaphosa even spoke to musk this week on, quote, issues of misinformation and distortions about south africa. there's evidence that donald trump has been red pilled into a far right movement that is inspired by white dispossession in africa,

the american white supremacist, neo nazi mass murderer who perpetrated the charleston church shooting wore a jacket with a flag of apartheid era south africa. and back when he was at fox, tucker carlson launched a relentless campaign to portray south africa's once dominant white population as a victimized minority under attack. folks like tucker and elon musk have long been orbiting around trump, but now they appear to have recruited him. bottom line it's clear who's influencing who trump is adopting elon musk's beliefs and handing him the powers of the presidency to implement them. in just the last hour, secretary of state marco rubio tweeted that he will not attend the g20 summit in johannesburg, sounding very trumpy when adding that, quote, south africa is doing very bad things like expropriating private property. i recently spoke to patrick gaspard, a former u.s. ambassador to south africa, and asked him about trump's threat

to take funding away from that country. >> if there's. >> so much to say about that. >> joy, let. >> me first say that with. >> elon musk. >> and donald trump, you're never quite sure if they're actually angry about a thing or if they're performing in anger because they have another agenda that they're trying to advance. it's really important to remember that with both of these two characters, elon musk met very recently with the president of south africa, cyril ramaphosa, to talk about investments in the country. he's trying to get starlink into south africa, but he understands that any external business that comes into that country has to have 30% black south african ownership of it because of the black enterprise laws that were passed in south africa to compensate blacks for what they lost during apartheid. he is against that law, and he's determined to kind of stir up a politics around what's unfair, what's being done to whites in south africa, but never divorce his business interests. and his bottom line from the performance

of a kind of anger. as far as donald trump is concerned, he's not just parroting elon musk in this moment. he has had a long held obsession with south africa. he said similar things when he was in his first term and even before being elected in 2016, he was tweeting about south africa and this bizarre, discredited fringe conspiracy notion that somehow white south african farmers are being targeted and their land is being appropriated from them illegally through extra military actions. it is not true in the least. there is no evidence of this. but he's been advancing this for some years now. and now you have the confluence of south of elon musk's interest and donald trump's interest coming together at a time when they're rating our development agency, usaid, and pulling resources and trying to create rationalizations for the appropriation of these funds. >> can you talk a little bit about the consequences of attempting to dismantle usaid? >> yeah. so, you know, usaid is

our global development footprint. there are some who say that it is america's way of being able to compete on somewhat even footing with china's influence in the world, and certainly in sub-saharan africa. i will tell you, joy, that when you look at debates that are raging in the united nations and the challenges that the us has with nations in the global south and latin america and in africa around a set of results that we want. more often than not, our ability to influence outcomes is driven by the partnerships that we have through things like usaid and through things like the african growth and opportunity act, which allows billions of dollars of exports to come into our country from these these nations, critically and strategically important and has material impact. those who are vulnerable and struggling in communities in these countries. >> so my understanding is that usaid, one of the one of the powers that they have, is the power of messaging about what the united states stands for, right? what does it do to that messaging when we are doing

things like opening guantanamo bay detention camps for migrants, agreeing with el salvador to send not just el salvadorian nationals who are here undocumented, but maybe american citizens, which i'm not sure is even legal, and cutting deals with maduro in venezuela to send undocumented venezuelans home in their in their fears to be imprisoned or killed. >> that messaging is significantly diminished as a consequence of all of these actions and the raid on usaid. i will tell you, joy, some of us are old enough to remember when the berlin wall fell down. yes, there was a sense that the united states, despite all of its challenges and despite its history of some interesting and complicated interventions in other parts of the world, there was a sense that us stood for democracy, for freedom, for free and fair elections, for economic advancement for all. that was a burning sense in africa. in latin america now, folks are seeing things like state capture in the us, where the corruption is naked and brazen. they see a bullying u.s. that's talking about the seizure of things like

the panama canal. >> and greenland. >> and greenland. and they see that the partnerships that they had that accrued to the mutual benefit of all things like the global health investments that the us has made, that was great for south africa and the african continent, but also helped us to make sure that crisis were tamped down and that diseases did not spread. they see a retreat in that, and they see this new bullying pressure that makes them think we ought to look around the world and see if there are better partners that are available to us to advance our interests. >> and they're starting to think, you know, china might be might be the one. and they're already in a lot of these parts of the world. i want to ask you this because you've worked so much in terms of dealing with foreign service is part of the challenge here, that that you can go after usaid first, because americans perceive foreign aid as being like $0.30 of every dollar that we spend. it's, what, like $0.03? >> $0.03. yeah, totally. >> it's almost zero. >> there's a sense that there isn't a constituency in the us that's going to mobilize against any intervention that you make in that space, and you have to understand that donald trump and

elon musk are always practicing everything we see them doing inside of usa today. they will be doing the department of education a week from now. they'll be doing to medicaid services. days from now, they're going to be pressing into the regulation of clean air and clean water in the us through the same framework of appropriation that we're seeing in u.s. aid in all of these agencies. we have to be prepared for all of that. >> thank you to former u.s. ambassador to south africa patrick gaspard. and coming up, patrick gaspard. and coming up, a much ( ♪♪) you never want to lose your edge. and the lexus rx completely understands that. (♪♪) until this week, my dad did not know where he was from. it means the world to share ancestry® with my dad. so nigeria, this is where it all started. so they've broken it down by regions, by journeys, and by parent. man, this is deep. this is my way of saying thank you to him. a sleep number® smart bed is perfect for couples

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