>> so far, they've been pretty adamant about defending him. they say that he's following the law. donald trump said explicitly he's not doing anything without her approval. but behind the scenes, it certainly seems like tension is starting to brew. and he's active, very active on x, constantly talking about the work that doge is doing. >> constantly talking about the work that doge is doing, and then also the fact that the president is saying he's not doing anything that i haven't signed off on, that means that politically, whatever these ramifications are, trump will own that. and there could be some federal workers who are extremely upset, especially if this buyout offer is not nearly as solid as people have said. it is a lot to keep tracking. kayla gardner, thank you for joining us. that was way too early for this thursday morning. morning joe kicks off. right now. >> is there an. >> inconsistency by republicans on one hand where. >> we've heard. >> for years now? >> oh, we want to not have. unelected bureaucrats in charge of things downtown. and yet. ceding article one powers. >> to the executive branch under elon musk. is there not an

inconsistency about calling. >> for the elimination. >> of the department of education? >> and yet we've heard from some of your. >> colleagues here. this morning. >> you know, we. >> don't want, you know, women to. >> be playing. >> sports with men. and aren't. >> you ceding. back that power, then, as it pertains. >> to education. >> if you eliminate. >> the department. >> of education? >> no. look. >> i got to challenge the premise. >> of the question. chad, you. >> know me. >> i'm a fierce. >> advocate and defender of. >> article one. >> i mean, look, we are the legislative branch. there's a reason the founding fathers. >> put the. >> congress, the legislative branch, as the first article in the. >> constitution. >> and we're going to vigorously defend that. but what's happening right now, i think there's. >> a gross overreaction. >> in the media to what is happening. the executive branch of government in our system has the right to evaluate how executive branch agencies. >> are operating. >> and to. ensure that not only the intent of congress in funding mechanisms, but also the stewardship of precious american taxpayer dollars is being handled well. that's what they're doing by putting a pause on some of these agencies and by evaluating them, by doing these. internal audits. that is a long

overdue, much welcome development. that's what the american people demand and deserve, and that's what's happening. so we don't see this as a threat to article one at all. we see this as an active, engaged, committed executive. >> branch authority. >> doing what the executive branch should do. >> that's interesting. that's not. a threat. >> to article one. >> listen, i'm. i'm a small. >> government conservative, willie. i'm all for audits. i'm all i'm all for going. >> going through. >> things and see. you know, use best practices, see how you can save as much of the taxpayers dollars. you can save it. and running it efficiently. but he went on x and basically decided he was going. >> to. >> shut down u.s. aid, shutting down an entire department that was founded and authorized by the united states congress. so this is a violation. of article

one powers. and as a member of the house of representatives, that's the one thing we always understood. we didn't have a. >> lot of power. if the. >> senate wanted to run over us on on other matters or if the white house did, but we had the power of the purse. and when you're holding the money and nothing can get authorized without the house of representatives, that's all the power you need to level the playing field. now, when they let an unelected bureaucrat shut. >> down an. >> entire agency because he doesn't. >> like it. >> and he goes on, you know, midnight rants on x, that's, that's that's one of the grossest retreats, one of the one of the most outrageous retreats from article one power that i've seen in washington in a very long time. >> yeah, plainly so too. i mean, mike johnson is a constitutional lawyer. he knows this. he knows better. but again, they won't cross donald trump. he wanted this. he wanted elon musk and.

unelected billionaire to just freelance. >> through the united states government. >> to shut down, as you said, entire departments to offer. buyout packages for people to leave agencies. >> like the cia. right. >> this is elon. >> musk at the. >> right hand of donald trump. >> just doing whatever. >> he wants to do. >> and. >> making those announcements. >> on twitter. and speaker. johnson knows that. >> by the way, that was a. >> fox news reporter yesterday. >> pressing mike johnson on elon. >> musk increased. >> power within the federal government growing. >> by the day, it. >> seems we'll talk. >> much more about. >> musk, usaid and other agencies being treated and targeted by that doge team in just a moment. also ahead, we'll bring you the latest on the legal fight over the trump administration's effort to limit birthright citizenship, with another federal judge now. blocking that attempt. plus, the justice. department offers clarification on fbi agents who worked on january 6th cases amid concerns there will be a purge at the bureau. >> but some of the day one orders from. >> new. >> attorney general pam.

>> bondi undercut the doj's efforts. to ease those fears. >> she promised. >> to look forward, but immediately now, looking back. >> to january. >> 6th, we'll get expert legal analysis on all of that with us this morning, the. >> co-host of our fourth hour, jonathan lemire. >> he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay, the host of way too early. ali vitali, columnist and associate editor for the washington post. david ignatius and former republican congressman carlos curbelo of florida. he is an msnbc analyst. joe, a lot to talk about this morning. >> a lot to talk about this morning. and again, you have the judge, this. birthright citizenship. >> ban. >> like it's being. >> killed as many times as dracula. >> in a in a bad horror movie. >> by one federal judge, after another federal judge, after another federal judge. and we're going to see that. we're going to see that we had a guest on a couple of days. ago that said, just just hold on. you just

wait. the article three courts are going to stop a lot of this, this, this unlawful, unconstitutional stuff that's being signed in by executive orders that were signed more for political impact. i heard this even from inside the administration. then they were to withstand judicial challenges. so i guess my question is i've got two questions this morning. question number one, when are we. >> going to finally. >> see the lawsuits move on the u.s. side? and actually an. >> injunction that stops that. >> all of those actions right now that are literally in less and less the reports are exaggerated, literally killing people across the globe right now, this morning, this instant, when does that injunction come? >> because the. >> richest dude in the world, just because he wants to, doesn't have the right. to shut down. >> a. >> federal agency? mike johnson knows that. everybody knows

that, except maybe the guy who's doing it. that's question. number one. >> question number. >> two, jonathan lemire. why did it take so long for the new york mets to nail down the polar bear. you have. >> hit on the. burning topic this morning. >> you're right. >> pete alonso. >> resigns with the mets fan favorite. >> he'd been a free agent. >> pretty contentious. contract negotiations. >> alonso wanted. 4 or 5 six year deal initially ends up. >> settling for just two for 54. >> million total. in fact, he can opt out after after one. >> it was. >> striking talking to a few people in the game in the last. week or two, that the mets really drew a hard line with him, almost sort of daring him. >> to leave. >> they were. >> saying, look, we think. you're worth this. >> we're not going to go beyond it, which is a bit. >> of a head scratcher for an organization that, of course, just spent. almost three quarters. >> of $1. >> billion. >> on juan soto and has the richest. >> owner in the. >> sport by. >> far in. >> steve cohen. but their

general. >> manager, willie david. >> stearns, formerly. >> with the. >> brewers, is. >> someone who. >> uses analytics, uses sabermetrics to sabermetrics to decide a player's value. >> they drew. >> a line on alonso. they wanted him to take sort of a more team friendly deal, and turns out he did. he's, of course, had the big hit in last. year's playoffs that helped them defeat the brewers and move on to the second round, and. >> he will. >> be back. >> now for. >> a team that has improved but. >> still plays in a very. >> tough division with the braves and phillies, most notably. >> yeah, i mean, two years, $54 million is. >> nice walking around. >> money, but certainly not in the league of juan. >> soto and ohtani. >> and those other superstars. as you said, he is a fan favorite. over the last five years, he's hit. >> more home runs. >> than anyone in major league baseball outside of aaron judge. so great player, fan favorite. but they were. for a while there. it looked like they were ready to walk away from him. but he will be a met and playing in that lineup with juan soto mets

looking good coming up here. pitchers and catchers just a couple of weeks away. so that's some good news. let's get back to washington. the white house is. attempting this morning to clarify president trump's proposal for the united states to take over gaza. on tuesday, the president announced the u.s. should own the enclave, redevelop it and relocate relocate 2 million palestinians who live there to either egypt or jordan. those two countries have said they are not willing to do that. he also suggested american troops could be deployed to gaza to carry out that plan. the comments, of course, sparked international backlash, especially from arab countries. now, the white house appears to be walking back. part of the president's proposal while defending his idea. >> the president has not committed to putting boots on the ground in gaza. he has also said that the united states is not going to pay for the rebuilding of gaza. his administration is going to work with our partners in the region to reconstruct this region. and let me just take a step back here, because this is an out of

the box idea. that's who president trump is. that's why the american people elected him. and his goal is lasting peace in the middle east. for all people in the region. >> what president. >> trump announced yesterday. >> is the offer, the willingness of. >> the united states. >> to become responsible for the reconstruction of that area. >> it was not. >> meant as. >> a hostile move. it was. >> meant as a, i think. >> a. >> very generous move. the offer. >> to rebuild. >> and to be in charge of. >> the rebuilding of a. >> place. >> many parts of which right. >> now. >> even if. >> people move back, they would have nowhere to live safely. >> because there are still unexploded. munitions and debris. >> and rubble. >> the definition of insanity is attempting to do the same thing over and over and over again. and as the president and prime minister pointed out last night, the president is willing to think outside the box, look for new and unique, dynamic ways to solve problems that have felt like they're intractable. >> joe. >> interesting to hear from defense secretary hegseth and secretary of state rubio there,

because it's reported this morning in the new york times that president trump did not consult either the department. >> of. >> defense or the department of state before making this announcement in an open press availability with prime minister benjamin netanyahu. so, again, what we're seeing is donald trump throwing out a radical idea, his staff scrambling in behind him, and really, the whole of the american government scrambling behind him to make sense of it or to explain it away. >> well. >> you know. >> and that. >> really is and i've been saying this. >> for. >> months now. >> i've been talking. >> about the need to separate the signal from the ground noise. >> and when. >> he said this, so many people sort of laughed, rolled their eyes, said, oh, he's just saying it. >> maybe sometimes. >> he does that to distract from something else that's going on. maybe it's elon musk ripping through the federal government. and trying to get access to things. he doesn't have the legal right to get access to. >> or maybe. >> it is just as we've said about the tariffs from the beginning. maybe it is the opening bid of something

present, something so shocking. >> that other. >> countries have to reset in the way they they negotiate. and that is the way he works. david ignatius and even though many of our allies and fewer of our enemies understand that, i know i spoke with people in. >> the region. >> over the past couple of days, and even if it was an opening bid, even if a day after everybody is saying, okay, well, they seem to be backing. >> off. >> talk about your reporting and how our allies were were, were deeply shaken by this. so our enemies, our enemies were thrilled by this because what propaganda for iran, what propaganda for hamas, what propaganda for our enemies at the imperialist america now wants to come over. but but, but talk about it. because when we say arab countries were upset, that used to be our enemies are

upset. now, those arab countries, those sunni arab countries are close allies. they were deeply shaken by this, and even the dhs had to send out, as you reported, a chilling warning about the possibility of terror strikes as a result of this change in posture. so. >> joe. >> like trump's tariff. >> policies, what was shocking about this was. >> that it. >> was an assault on our closest friends and allies, jordan and egypt, which are the two countries that matter most in terms of the security of israel. when the proposal was made, the reaction in the arab world was immediate. people were on the phone. i'm told that mohammed bin salman, the crown prince of saudi arabia, was talking yesterday to king abdullah in jordan, offering him assurance that that donald trump is not going to roll us into supporting this proposal. by midday, the reaction was so strong that you could see trump through the

white house spokesman backing away from some details of the plan. this had been announced as a takeover. we're going to take gaza, we're going to take it with troops. but by midday, no, no boots on the ground. the reality is. that this is a this is a crazy proposal. the idea that the united states. >> would. >> take over property in the most explosive, war prone part of the world, and that a president who said i'm going to end middle east wars would be championing it. it's just it makes your head spin. it's likely that this isn't going anywhere. but is it the opening bid, the opening bid to what? the truth is a solution for gaza. the president's right. gaza looks like a demolition zone. i've seen it with my own eyes. every building. >> you see. >> in every direction has been destroyed. what's going to be done if trump's idea is a bad one, what's a good one? and there are lots of ideas out there. the israelis have been resisting many of the ones the

us has proposed. if this is the opening of a real discussion about how you rebuild gaza, so much the better. but but trump's initial version of this was so disorienting for the region that it got a big pushback. and i do think it's going to be fodder for terror groups that would like to inspire radical action in the united states. i did quote this morning a memo that was sent out in the early hours of yesterday morning by dhs, noting the likelihood that there would be protest demonstrations around the country and that if they turn violent, people would have to deal with that. so i think already there's a there's a sense that this may be triggering precisely the kind of threat within the homeland that we shouldn't be wanting. >> so. so, david, let me ask you if this was an attempt to. >> just throw. >> everybody off. >> balance and. >> set up an opening bid for something different, because as the wall street journal

editorial page said, going back to the status quo with hamas in charge certainly is not an option. that was that was this morning's wall street journal editorial lead editorial. so what is this an opening bid for? is this an opening? perhaps the saudis, the emiratis. >> other. >> the jordanians, other people in the region coming in with an arab peacekeeping force? what what could this be? an opening bid to what could do you have any reporting on what donald trump was trying to get to? >> so donald trump's vision and this does go back many months and maybe even years. i had one senior official say, this is the deal of the century coming back. this we're going back to trump's first term. and let's just turn over everything and start again with american leadership. so maybe there are echoes of that. certainly jared kushner, his son in law, was talking a year ago. you can see him on on tape at a

harvard seminar, talking about the need to turn gaza into a wonderful waterfront. he was talking about moving people out into the negev desert, which is in israel, not to egypt and jordan. so this is an idea that's been cooking for trump. but he does have a sort of real estate developers sense of here's opportunity, here's a demolition zone. let's figure out a way to rebuild it in terms of what would be a sane alternative. the biden administration, secretary of state and national security advisor, both have been pushing the idea that you need a day after in gaza, in which you gradually give the palestinian authority more and more responsibility so that you have palestinians who are vetted by israel, who have shown that they can handle security duties, being responsible there. i don't see a better way than that. i don't i mean, so that that's not something trump is sympathetic to, but he better start looking

at it because i don't see another way. >> yeah, david, clearly bringing a developer's mindset to the most fragile and fragmented foreign policy threat and debacle in the world. carlos, this was seemingly the one thing that republicans knee jerk reaction was to say, this is crazy, insane, deranged. those were actual quotes that we heard from republicans and democrats alike. why is this the issue that they're willing to go to bat on against the administration? is it because it just seems so out there that they feel like there's not a political tax? >> well, number one. >> it's pretty obvious, right? >> and i think easy to dismiss it is a radical idea, to be fair, not more radical than having terrorists run gaza, but still a radical idea. and at the same time, it's inconsistent with what. trump has been telling congressional republicans and the country for so long, right, that we should be investing in our own country, that we should withdraw from conflict zones, that we shouldn't put our. >> men and women.

>> in harm's way. while putting. >> people in gaza. >> seems pretty dangerous to me. so i think a lot of people on the hill and i was up there yesterday were just kind. of surprised that he would propose. >> something that. >> is so distant from the persona that he's created. from this idea that he's promoted, that the united states should actually withdraw from the world stage. >> so domestically, there's growing concern about a trump administration purge within the fbi, loyalty tests and the like. but the justice department is now saying it will not target bureau employees who simply followed orders. acting deputy attorney general emily beauvais sent a memo to the fbi's workforce yesterday explaining that employees who carried out their duties in an ethical manner in regards to january 6th criminal cases won't be at risk of termination or other penalties. we'll see who gets to decide what an ethical manner looks like. he wrote this quote the only individuals who should be concerned are those who acted with corrupt or partizan intent, who blatantly defied orders from

department leadership, or who exercised discretion in weaponizing the fbi. meanwhile, pam bondi was sworn in as the new u.s. attorney general yesterday in an oval office ceremony attended by president trump and administered by supreme court justice clarence thomas. it was the first cabinet swearing in ceremony the president has attended. trump praised bondi's record as a prosecutor and said she will restore, quote, impartial justice at the department. >> i think. >> she's going to be as impartial as you can possibly be. i know i'm supposed to say she's going to be totally impartial with respect to democrats, and i think she will be as impartial as a person can be. i'm not sure if there's a possibility of totally, but she's going to be as total as you can get. she's going to end the weaponization of federal law enforcement and restore honesty and integrity at the doj and the fbi. >> almost immediately after that swearing in ceremony, the attorney general got to work. bondi issued more than a dozen

directives aimed at overhauling the justice department. in one memo, she created the, quote, weaponization working group to review the cases brought up against president trump, including the special counsel cases and the manhattan hush money case. so jonathan lemire, she said pam bondi did during her confirmation hearing she would be looking forward, seemed to say, suggest that she would not be targeting any employees, that she was just going to do the work of the justice system. but in her first act as attorney general, promising to investigate the investigators of donald trump. yeah, i mean, that message is pretty clear. and this is what donald trump promised. >> for two. >> years on. >> the campaign trail. >> that he. >> would attack the so-called weaponization of government, that he would go after the deep state. and we've seen that throughout what he and elon musk are doing, rooting out and destroying huge swaths of the federal bureaucracy, or at least trying to. and now the department of justice. this comes, of course, on. >> the heels. >> of. >> those eight fbi. >> directors being fired. >> and now this chilling

investigation of. all those involved in january, six cases. >> and yes, you. >> noted some that the bureau tried to provide some clarity yesterday that sort of suggesting that, no, no, it'll just be those who acted unlawfully. but you rightly noted. well, who gets to decide that? what's the discretion there? >> and certainly. >> pam bondi out of the gate, says this is going to be a major priority. >> and joe. >> we need to just talk about the setting for a second here. it's not just that this is the first swearing in that president trump attended. this was done. >> in the. >> oval office itself. >> these things do. >> not tend to happen in the. >> oval office. >> we have seen other cabinet secretaries, even just recent days, and certainly with previous presidents, they get sworn in executive chambers, i believe kristi noem was sworn in at clarence thomas's house. even though there's a wide variety of settings, the oval office is unusual. message sent. >> yeah, unusual message sent. katty kay. >> what is so. >> fascinating is how badly. the entire investigating the

investigators ruse has gone. we can go back to john durham, who completely humiliated himself, really. destroyed a great reputation by, you know, coming up empty. >> one. >> one bad decision after another, one dismissed, case after another. so you have that example, and you also have chairman comer and his examples, of course, how badly that went where you ended up having fellow republicans, the wall street journal editorial page, everybody else going, please just stop when here's the biggest problem with investigating the investigators. when you investigate the investigators, you've got to bring up the underlying facts of what the investigators were investigating. and donald trump certainly doesn't want that for january the 6th. does he really want that to get the testimony

that that the committee got? does he really want to go through all that? he doesn't want to bring up the hush money case? i mean, they they can do it internally. but but but to have it spill out publicly, that's just that's not good for donald trump. if he's really looking forward because looking back only digs up a lot of soil that he and his political allies do not want dug up. >> yeah. >> in some. >> ways, for. >> this administration, it might. >> be. >> much easier just. >> to get rid of. >> all of. the fbi. >> agents who were. >> involved in. >> the. prosecution cases of january the. >> 6th. >> rather than to. >> actually dig into the details of it. it was interesting that it was announced on day. >> one by pam bondi. >> she clearly knows. >> who her boss is. >> and. >> what he's looking for. having that ceremony in the. >> oval office in. >> the white house. so unusual. but maybe she was trying to send a message. yes. look, i'm. coming straight out of the gate doing. >> exactly what it is.

>> that you. >> want. me to do. >> let's see. >> how far it actually goes. >> but. >> congressman. >> when you look. >> at what is happening. >> across the federal. >> government at the moment. >> whether it is in the justice department, whether it is in the cia as well. >> whether it is. >> in the fbi, where. buyouts have been. >> offered, what is the concern that in this bid to i. >> get it. >> to sort. >> of disrupt. >> the american government, which could do. >> with some disruption with these buyouts. >> my experience with buyout offers is the people who. >> are in the best. >> position leave because they can get jobs elsewhere. the people. who are less qualified tend to stay. is are all of these agencies. >> now. >> including the doj, are at risk of losing some of their best people? >> definitely. and look, in the era of. >> trump, i think. >> it's tough to sift through and figure out what is essential because there's so. >> much coming. >> at us all the time. this stuff at the justice department is essential, right? when we're talking about the rule of law. i mean, it's not just about people's rights, but it's also just about the economy and business. right? everything in this country depends on the rule

of law, on predictability, on an understanding that you have certain rights, that the government is going to protect those rights, not come after you. so i would tell the opposition, the democrats, who i think have been guilty of a sky is falling approach every day, especially during. the first trump administration. i think they've learned a little bit this time, but this stuff is essential. the justice department, the cia, the way these employees are being treated in terms of the buyouts, look, i think probably people who were going to retire sometime soon might take the buyouts. the reports that i've seen up to now don't show droves of people leaving these agencies, but we do have to watch out for that. but going back to the topic of figuring out what the opposition should focus on, what the media should focus on, i think it's things like this we can get distracted easily. we can fall into the trap of, for example, gaza and focusing on that for days, that's likely not going to happen. that doesn't have any immediate implications. what

happens at the justice department does. >> yeah. >> also, you could add to that list the unelected billionaire having access to payments at the treasury department. the list is very long right now. former republican congressman of florida carlos curbelo. carlos, thanks so much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> still ahead on morning joe, thousands gathered on capitol hill yesterday to protest the trump administration's efforts to shut down the country's top international aid agency. but the latest on the plans for a legal pushback. plus, we're taking a look at the sweeping upheaval elon musk has created across washington, as the billionaire's team seems to gain unchecked access to multiple federal agencies. we're back in 90s. >> and, doug. >> you'll be back. emus can't help people customize. and save. >> hundreds on. >> car insurance. >> with liberty mutual.

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see the visual possibility in your business. with signs and graphics, you can save anything. transforming your space begins at our place. fast signs make your statement. picture of washington. >> before the sun comes up near the bottom of the hour. here, the white house ordered the cia to send an unclassified email that lists all employees hired over the past two years to comply with an executive order to trim the federal workforce, a move former officials say is risky because that list could fall, of course, into the wrong hands, the new york times reports. the list included first names and the first initial of the last name of the new hires, who are still on probation, thus easy to dismiss. it included a large crop of young analysts and operatives who were hired specifically to focus on china, and whose identities are usually

closely guarded. because chinese hackers are constantly seeking to identify them. the paper continues. quote, some former officials said they worried the list could be passed on to a team of newly hired young software experts working with elon musk and his government efficiency team. if that happened, the names of the employees might be more easily targeted by china, russia or other foreign intelligence services. david ignatius, this seems like an obvious one. don't send an unclassified memo with a list of all the people you've hired at the cia for the last two years. so what do you see as the problem with this and reaction at langley? >> so it's a wildly insecure move. this is the kind of thing that's led in the past to the disclosure of names from government databases that could continues to have repercussions for the for the cia, the cia, and as near as i can tell from my reporting, is just reeling.

calling a veteran former cia officers that they were receiving, you know, half a dozen a day calls from colleagues around the world currently working for the agency, looking for work. they had received these buyout notices. they sense that their services are not wanted by the new administration. and so they're thinking, okay, what else am i going to do? the problem for the for the cia and the federal government in general, as katie was saying earlier, let's think about the people who are most valuable, people who speak chinese, people who speak russian, people who speak arabic skills that take many years to acquire. those are likely to be the people who are most valuable, who can get jobs most quickly in the private sector, and who are going to think about leaving. how do you replace those people? how do you replace the front line? this is a this is a very unstable world right now, and the need to monitor and understand the threats that are coming at the united states has never been

greater than this. we've had, you know, similar times of crisis. but this is this is a time when you need a strong intelligence agency. and right now they're reeling. they look at john ratcliffe, the director. he's close to trump, a trump loyalist. they just installed as his deputy somebody who has very little intelligence experience. and again, whose principal credential is that he is loyal to donald trump. and if you're a cia officer or now at the national security agency, you're looking at your buyout offer and you're wondering, what's my future? maybe i should bail. >> yeah. two different. >> former. >> national security. >> officials texted me yesterday. a line from the times story. it's worth reading again that these names included a young crop, large crop of young analysts and operatives who were hired specifically to focus on china and. >> whose identities are usually. >> closely guarded because chinese hackers are constantly trying to identify them. and one of those officials texted me, added the line, we're doing our work for them. this was just such a mistake here, and it shows a lapse in security and it

twinned with. we're seeing efforts at the fbi. we talked about pam bondi, but kash patel, if she if he is indeed confirmed, he said they'll be shrinking the counterterrorism operations in that bureau. you know, there are real concerns right now about about this nation's national security coming in and the lax procedures as trump tries to remake it. and in many ways really sort of shrink our global footprint. and we have also, if tulsi gabbard's to be concerned, we know. that some of our. >> allies have already. >> been have expressed concerns about the intelligence sharing that is such the bedrock of the us agencies and trying to keep nations safe. some of the five eyes program, whether our allies will want to fully cooperate in that because they have real concerns about her qualifications and, at times, allegiances. and we know these loyalists, these nominees, many of them now confirmed their chief task is to go back and investigate. the investigators or any of the people in your agency. are they partizan? did

they work against me over the last eight years or so, instead of looking at all the threats that they should be worried about around the world, protesters gathered on capitol hill yesterday to push back on the trump administration's decision to furlough nearly all usaid employees. nbc news spoke with several usaid staffers, contractors, implementing partners and supporters at the rally who say they are understandably devastated by what's happening. suddenly, democratic lawmakers joined the protest, the latest, amid their resistance themed news conferences aiming to combat trump's moves to remake the government through executive power, sources say usaid employees and contractors are planning legal pushback. lawsuits based on loss of income could be used to bring up constitutional claims over presidential power. additionally, lawyers say nonprofit groups could argue the government has violated a law requiring agencies to follow the correct legal procedures. questioned the legal authority of elon musk, doge, and alleged

that the administration is unlawfully withholding funds appropriated by congress. joining us now in the conversation, msnbc contributor, our good friend mike barnicle. mike, there's been a lot to digest over the last 34 minutes or so of this show. all that's happening so fast, coming at us all at once. but let's pause where we are right now with usaid, which gets soft power and expression and exercise of american soft power around the world, helping people through programs like pepfar put into place by george w bush, one of the most successful programs ever that has saved tens of millions of lives now on pause and costing lives, according to most experts. what do you see when you look at usaid to begin with? but this full two and a half weeks of the second trump administration. >> you know? >> well. >> first. >> of all, willie, on pepfar, it's estimated. >> that it has saved at least a minimum. >> of. >> 20 million. >> lives in africa. >> and to be treating. >> it like it's the. >> registry of motor. >> vehicles, let's shut it.

>> down and everything. >> like that. >> and i want a list of employees and get out and everything. >> like that. >> this is total. this is. >> a total. >> attempt at destruction of elements of the united states government bureau by bureau, department by department. i'd like to get back to david ignatius for a. >> second, though, in. >> terms of the former conversation, david, yesterday i. >> was. >> speaking with a now retired former cia employee who was talking about. >> the. importance of the. >> analytics within the cia, the analytics that are done every single day by professionals who have long term, long time observations with various countries like china. >> russia, ukraine. >> things like that. and to lose any element of that would. >> be. >> a disaster for intelligence, for american. intelligence operatives. >> so, mike, you've got it exactly right. this is expertise that's been built up over a long time. it's a very precious. we just don't know what the agenda of john ratcliffe or other

officials of the government is in regards to intelligence. do they really think there's a deep state that somehow subverting the interests of the people of the united states? and to me, that's that's a crazy idea. but if they try to carry carry it out, they're going to seek to purge lots of people who the analysts who they'll argue have been pushing the same line over and over and cause america to i mean, in truth, the cia has been the strongest proponent of staying out of wars. i can't think of a war, you know, from iraq to afghanistan. the cia analysts didn't warn, this isn't going to work. this isn't a smart policy. so the analysts are hardly servants of a war machine. but these are these are fragile institutions. they take a long time to build. they are at the essence of america's soft power. every country, the cia, is the strongest intelligence agency in the world, and everybody wants some of its product. and if that product

begins to be degraded, america's ability to have leverage with its friends and allies, even with its adversaries, quickly diminishes. also. >> katty, there is, though, when it comes to usaid, a private pressure campaign. we haven't necessarily seen it in large fashion from lawmakers on the hill publicly, though some of them have questioned exactly what's going on here in the downsides of it. but even bill gates told our colleague savannah guthrie last night in an interview that he spent time at the white house. yesterday. he talked for a brief time with trump, talked for a long while with chief of staff siouxsie wiles, and made the case to them, in part, that what they're doing dismantling usaid, has very negative ramifications. i had another former trump appointee who served in the first administration in the state department coming on and saying, i've spent my life working at pepfar. i've spent my life working within u.s. agencies like this one. this is life or death stakes here. when you talk about toying with and potentially ripping apart usaid. so it's not like the pushback isn't there, but do you think it

would work? >> i think it. >> needs to be sustained. it reminds me a little bit of the kind of 1990s in the war in bosnia, when you had night after night, you had reporters in sarajevo reporting back what was happened. and finally bill clinton got involved and we had the dayton accords, and something happened. now, if you had a pressure campaign, i was watching cbs news actually last night, at the risk of naming a competitor, and there was a fantastic report from sudan with literally starving children. taking food from usaid pouches. the usaid has been fantastic at advertising the fact that it's american. so whenever you see those big. >> sacks. >> they have usaid written on it for a reason. it is the soft power. now, i think if there was a campaign. a sustained media campaign showing these children this i mean, this tiny baby was literally there drinking from a usaid bottle, that child won't survive if it doesn't get that usaid aid. i don't think americans are appreciating yet what the impact of this cut will have. but if they start to see

that americans won't like it, and i think president trump could be susceptible to that pressure, public pressure campaign. but i look at elon musk and the glee with which he is destroying this agency. i'm calling them worms, calling them evil, calling them vicious, and saying he's sent the agency to the woodchipper. i mean, there's a he's reveling in getting rid of this agency. so trump is kind of is there enough of a public pressure campaign that highlights the good work that usaid does for people, but also for americans against this move of these must all be woke liberals. we have to get rid of them there. >> there really is something so horrifying about a child starving in sudan, being far more likely to starve to death because the world's. richest man is going around calling people that are administering that aid worms. and let me explain this

again. for those who have ears to hear. david ignatius, when the united states provides aid, yes, we provide aid because some of us believe, and i will say this on ronald reagan's birthday, some of us believe that america really is, and it should be a city shining brightly on the hill for all the world to see. that is one of the reasons why we do it. the other reason goes back to what i've been saying this week. when harry truman called herbert hoover in to political enemies, two political rivals. but harry truman said, you're the person that can organize relief across europe, across the world, in a world that has been destroyed by world war two. and yes, we're doing this because it's the right thing to do. but we're also doing this because hungry

mouths become. >> communist. >> mouths become become communist foot soldiers. we have to win europe. we have to win western europe. we cannot allow france and spain and the netherlands and all the other countries in western europe to fall into communist hands. and i know you know this, david, but it is so shortsighted. elon musk calling these, these these people worms and this and that and the other. our, our, our aid work in the ivory coast. it helps us get intel on al qaeda, our aid work in sudan. it helps us get intel on isis. we can do two things at once all over africa, all over the southern hemisphere, where people wish to do america ill. our aid work not

only wins hearts and minds, but it helps us draw in intelligence on those who would blow up buildings in new york city, in washington, d.c, in charlotte, north carolina, across america. that is what is so extraordinarily shortsighted about this. >> you're exactly right. the generosity of the united states through programs like usaid, is scorned by donald trump as a sign of american weakness. and it's the opposite. it's seen around the world as evidence that the united states, for all of its mistakes, still has a heart and still has an ability to deal with the most painful, difficult problems there are. i have been collecting in the last week, week and a half examples

of what happens when these clinics close down in in africa. in asia, people who have been depending on doctors who were funded by usaid suddenly have no place to go. the doctors are on their way home. they've all received the notices that this is over, and people are looking at each other in these countries wondering, what do we do now? and the answer is pretty simple. now we turn to china. now somebody else is going to come in and take up this space that the united states and usaid, at a tiny fraction of our budget has been has been filling. somebody else will come in and have that. we call it soft power, but it's power. and so that's part of what is ahead. and that i just don't think elon musk or anybody in this administration has thought about how quickly the power of the united states that took so long to build up can begin to unravel. >> yeah. >> raising the question again,

why elon musk, an unelected billionaire from south africa, is making these decisions. he has called usaid a criminal organization that needs to die. we should remind our viewers, if this really were about efficiency, he wouldn't be going after usaid, a $40 billion annual budget for usaid represents less than 1% of the federal budget here in the united states. the washington post david ignatius, thanks so much, as always. we appreciate it. coming up, senators are questioning whether fbi director nominee kash patel had any involvement in the bureau's decision to fire several top employees. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin joins us with a first look at patel's answers. morning joe is coming right back. >> you know, if you never had one. for more on. i can say where it is, but i know i'm. going. home.

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the ones who get it done. are you aware of any plans or discussions to punish in any way, including termination? >> fbi agents. >> or personnel. >> associated. >> with trump investigations? >> senator, just to be clear, i did not participate in any of those d.o.j. >> that's a yes or no question. >> are you aware of. >> any plans. >> or. >> discussions to punish. >> in. any way, including.

>> termination. fbi agents or. >> personnel associated with trump investigations? >> yes or no? >> i am. >> not aware of that. >> is president trump's nominee for fbi director, kash patel, at his confirmation hearing last month, telling senators he had no knowledge of any administration plans of retribution against the fbi agents involved in trump investigations. well, this morning we have exclusive reporting on patel's response to follow up questions from senators about what's being viewed by many as an ongoing purge at the law enforcement agency. let's bring in former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, who has that new reporting for us. so, lisa, we're talking here about written follow up questions. what did the likely next fbi director have to say? >> well, willie. these questions and his answers take up 174 pages. >> and certainly they touch on a number of other. >> topics. >> including kash patel's. fundraising for people. associated with january 6th. but the. part of it that i.

>> was really focused on has to do with that exchange that he had with. senator booker. >> that you just showed. >> which is was. kash patel aware. of any of the plans to fire agents at the fbi, to senior. >> officials at. >> the fbi. >> as. >> we saw through our own nbc news reporting last week of. sort of a major. purge at the fbi. >> and what's. >> interesting about his answers to those. >> questions is when kash patel is asked. did you direct them? >> were you involved. >> in them? >> his answer is. >> a flat no. >> but when he is asked the. >> question somewhat. >> differently, and i should say for our viewers. >> and for. >> you, he was asked these questions by a number. >> of different senators. >> all of whom use slightly. different wording. when asked whether he knew about them in advance. >> kash patel. >> gives a very different. >> answer of. >> not that i recall. >> that's particularly notable because. across these 174. >> pages. >> kash patel doesn't. use the. >> phrase not that i can recall all that often. he gives it on a handful of other occasions, but for the most part, his answers are narrative, and they are either lengthy when he's trying

to clarify or explain himself, or there are many instances in which kash. >> patel just. >> says no or yes to various questions that not that i can recall is particularly strange, given that when asked a similar question by senator booker, he was. >> much more unequivocal in his response. >> so democrats have asked. >> for a second day of questioning for patel. it's unclear, though, whether senator grassley, the chairman, will allow that. so, lisa, let's get your thoughts. let's take this in tandem with what we talked about a little while ago on the show, which was pam bondi being sworn in in the oval office, which was a clear symbol sent. >> by. >> this president. and then her first order of business, basically is to investigate the investigators, these so-called weaponization of government. >> yeah. and, john, one of the things that i saw in that particular. >> that particular. memo from pam. >> bondi, and there were 14 of them, i should note yesterday. but in that. particular memo, one of the things she's asking is to investigate what she. >> calls federal. >> cooperation. with two cases

brought. >> against president trump. >> that emanated from this state. they are not even things over which she has jurisdiction. that is the criminal case against president trump here in manhattan by manhattan district attorney alvin bragg. and then what's called the civil fraud case by new york attorney general tish james. that's the case in. which trump, if that. >> case is upheld. >> would owe hundreds of millions of dollars to the state of new york for overinflating the value of certain of his assets or under inflating. >> them, as it were. >> when it is advantageous to him. the idea. >> that there. >> was federal cooperation with those cases is itself sort of presuming something that just doesn't happen to be true. was there an occasion on which the southern district of new york. >> that's the department. >> of justice's office here in manhattan, gave. information to manhattan prosecutors who are prosecuting the hush money case? yes, but i don't think that the evidence will show that it was somehow some cabal against president trump to like, hey. >> let's.

>> give them all this stuff that we didn't use while trump was still president. and we decided. >> not to. >> prosecute him. there were processes followed. there were laws abided the idea that the feds were somehow implicated in each of these two state cases is just not true. but of course, they have embedded the idea that it was in the very body of this memo. >> so lisa kash patel, back to his testimony. >> he's going to be testifying again, i think again today. >> the sudden. use of. >> not that i recall. >> during the course. >> of his interrogations by the senate committee have been often forceful in response, combative in response, but not. >> that i recall. >> that strikes. me as something that council. >> probably provided him with an idea to use. >> that instead. >> of a. >> simple yes or no to avoid further litigation down the road, perhaps. what do. >> you think? >> well, we don't know. i should say two things, mike. one is

there is another business meeting today of the judiciary committee. usually they can't vote on a nominee until two weeks after a hearing, like the one mr. patel had last week. he's not expected to be back at the committee today, although his nomination is expected to be discussed in terms of how he arrived at these answers. across these 174 pages, that's obviously something that we don't have any insight into. but i can tell you that in addition to asking for another day of patel's testimony, senators have also written to patel himself, led by dick durbin, the ranking democrat, and said to him, look, we have real concerns about the veracity of your question, the veracity of your answers. and so we want you to provide to us a litany of your communications with people in the trump white house on the transition team, or where it comes to the acting and actual leadership of the department of justice and the fbi. we want to know, between election day and the inauguration, did you, in fact, discuss these firings with people like pam bondi or todd blanch, who's been nominated to be the number two at the department? did you talk about

them with driscoll, who is the acting director of the fbi, and his deputy, a man named cassidy. they are asking those questions because on the face of these answers, they're not sure that they're right or true. and so they are trying to get at what actually happened. here it is. it really speaks, i think, to the weaknesses in the senate confirmation process. i've talked with you guys about that before, where it comes to allegations of sexual misconduct or personal misconduct. but it's also true where the committee has doubts about the veracity of information that a nominee is providing. they don't really have much at their disposal other than the nominee's goodwill to get at the information that they're really looking for. >> and as lisa points out, patel will not testify again. chairman grassley said two days ago that he thought a second round of questioning was unnecessary and that he would not indulge. democrats attempt to malign kash patel. he's ready to move forward on a vote. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. lisa, great reporting there. thanks so much. thanks. still ahead this morning, some democrats are

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trump said the u.s. will take over the gaza strip and build the riviera of the middle east. >> yeah, yeah. >> trump wants to take over greenland, canada, and now the gaza strip. he's like everyone at 2 a.m. drunk, ordering off amazon. i'm going to add i'm going to add gaza strip. >> to. >> it. >> cart i want. >> gaza strip. >> source close to the president said it was trump's own idea. everyone was like, oh, we can tell. >> yeah. >> yep. >> after trump announced his plan for gaza, a democratic congressman said he is filing articles of impeachment against him now. good luck with that. there's a better chance of turning gaza into the riviera of the middle east. >> jimmy fallon last night. welcome back to morning joe. it is thursday, february 6th. jonathan lemire, mike barnicle, katty kay, ali vitali still with us and joining the conversation, politics reporter for semafor, dave weigel and chief white house correspondent for the new york times, peter baker. guys.

good morning. before we get to your new reporting, jonathan lemire, i understand just in the last few minutes, president trump has posted to truth social. as we've been discussing this plan he threw out about the united states taking over gaza and, quote, owning it, that the white house has had to walk back a little bit. what is he saying this morning? yeah, it's been a busy stretch for president trump on truth social. amid posts about his love for kansas city chiefs quarterback patrick mahomes, as well as baseless claims that government agencies are sending money to media outlets including politico, which is, of course, those are simply subscriptions by people who work there. he has indeed posted about gaza's the gaza strip again. >> and it's pretty newsy. >> he says it would be turned over to the united states. >> by israel. >> at the conclusion of fighting. i think some would wonder why israel would have the. >> right to do that. >> he says that the palestinians. he also claims that chuck schumer is palestinian, would already have been. >> resettled in. >> far safer, more beautiful. >> communities, new modern homes in the region. he says he'd be working with development teams

all over the world to reconstruct the area. and he does say this. >> he says. >> no soldiers by the u.s. would be needed. so the white house did really. >> try to. >> walk that. >> back. >> a piece of his proposal that the u.s. troops. >> would be there to. >> help the united states, quote, own gaza. he has. >> pushed he. >> brought that back. also suggesting that u.s. money would be only involved if other countries were as well. so he has not abandoned the idea. and, joe, you know, we've talked about this. it is not going to happen quite simply. but even him talking about it threatens to destabilize further an already very tenuous ceasefire and a region that has been a tinderbox for a very long time. >> well. >> he obviously decides to. >> follow up. >> what he said in the press conference and not completely. abandon this idea. it's still any arab ally of ours. any arab neighbor of israel's would say it's a nonstarter, as would most countries across the globe.

fortunately, we have peter baker here who has been covering donald trump for some time, and peter is going to tell us exactly what the president means. peter. >> joe. >> he means what he says. i don't know what you're talking about. just because his staff comes out and says he doesn't mean what he says. well, that's just another day. look, he has been talking about this. our reporting shows with some advisers for a few weeks. he's intrigued by the idea. obviously, he has the real estate magnates view of the world, you know, create a little las vegas there on gaza. why not? it had not, of course, been fully baked with the defense department or the state department or any other agency that would normally look at a proposal of such magnitude and scope. surprise, surprise. it had not, of course, been cleared even with the israelis. benjamin netanyahu was told just moments before that the president was going to throw this on out there. and you saw his sort of cheshire cat grin at that one. so, you know, look, he likes to

stir the pot. and what you hear from his allies and supporters is, okay, well, who's got a better idea? well, there's a whole lot of worse ideas, perhaps, but this one is so out there, so out of the box, to use the phrase that benjamin netanyahu used, that, as we said in the paper, it's like he didn't even know there was a box. well. >> and again, our our allies in the region are horrified by this and immediately stated as much. our enemies in the region going to use this for propaganda, obviously, and it does create an awful lot of, of unrest. but donald trump obviously knew that before he said it. i think, though, one of the one of the big wins here, though, is for benjamin netanyahu. and you write about this, of course, netanyahu would be smiling ear to ear about this because you have the president of the united states basically saying the palestinians should all be shipped out of gaza, and one

would assume eventually the west bank and that they'd have no right to their land. so talk about why netanyahu considers this, even if it's just donald trump's opening bid for something that only he knows where he's going. why this would be considered such a huge win for benjamin netanyahu, and not quite as big of a win for those voters in dearborn, michigan, who thought democrats were so bad on the palestinian question, but that donald trump would be far better. >> sure. yeah. >> i mean, among. >> other things, of course, if you're ridding gaza of all palestinians, which, by the way, if it's done forcibly is an international violation of international law. the convention says forcible relocations of a population like this would, would, would be illegal or war crime. you know, look, it's a way of, you know, getting rid of the idea of a two state solution, a palestinian state. what's the viable palestinian state if they don't even have gaza? they're certainly not going to be given the west bank or most of the

west bank. so, you know, netanyahu came out of this meeting, you know, with pretty much everything he wanted, very clear that trump is not going to push him on the cease fire in terms of keeping that alive. if it means he's not going to have a chance to keep going after hamas, which he wants to do, didn't push him on west bank settlements. in fact, the opposite. this new administration has rescinded the sanctions on violent west bank settlers that the biden administration put on. he's getting the weapons that were held up during the biden administration. he got an order signed by president trump restoring maximum pressure on iran. so, yeah, it was a pretty good day for benjamin netanyahu. now, the other side of the coin is that when trump talks about the palestinians in gaza, he is talking about it from a point of view of humanitarian concern. he does say, correctly, that gaza is a wasteland, that it is a demolition site, and something has to be done to provide them homes. his solution isn't what the palestinians would want, but he does talk about the gazans in

terms of the plight that they are facing with with much more compassion than, let's say, netanyahu does. and i think that what you hear from some people is that, you know, at least he is concerned about them, but they do not want to be pushed out of their land. they do not want to have donald trump take it over and make it a us protectorate or something like that. >> no. >> and the wall street journal writes, willie this morning, in their their lead opinion about those beachfront gaza condos. of course, the wall street journal editorial page rolls their eyes in disbelief, but at the same time, right. critics deride trump's idea. but what are they offering palestinians? and of course, they suggest the same thing that carlos suggested earlier this morning on the show that, yes, this is a crazy idea, but not much crazier than turning gaza back over into the control of hamas. >> yeah, and there are a couple of obvious questions. what do you do with hamas if you somehow got 2 million palestinians to

leave their homeland, where would they go? first of all, when egypt and jordan have said they don't want anything to do with this idea? and then what do you do with hamas, which remains a terrorist organization that runs the region? a lot of unanswered questions. but as we just heard donald trump digging in deeper on this idea, meanwhile, back in washington, elon musk and his doge team continue to sweep through federal agencies, gaining more access to critical information and financial systems. the wall street journal reports. doge aides already have access to key payment and contracting systems at the centers for medicare and medicaid services. meanwhile, the washington post reports musk staffers are working to get access to a vast federal database that touches nearly every corner of american health care with sensitive financial information about hospitals, physicians and other organizations. it appears the labor department is next on musk's to do list. as the post reports, doge staffers met virtually with labor staff

yesterday afternoon. also yesterday, musk posted online his efficiency team will dig into the nation's aviation system, claiming his team will make rapid safety upgrades to air traffic control. but there are some restrictions coming for the doge team and their access to information. the treasury department's payment system. attorneys for the justice department agreed to temporary limits late last night. this comes after a group of union members and retirees sued the treasury department, alleging a violation of federal privacy laws. ty cobb, who served as a white house lawyer during trump's first term, summed up the doj's strategy, telling the washington post, quote, it's a naked power grab consistent with what trump's advisors have persuaded him to do, which is to flood the zone with as much unconstitutional activity as possible, with the hope that they get away with some or all of it. so, dave weigel, you wrote a piece in december which predicted why republicans would do just what they're doing and why they would continue to

support elon musk. it's titled democrats warn of president elon and republicans welcome him. in it, dave writes this republicans are operating in an information space where the question here should a successful ceo run the country, not 535 members of congress is obviously answered yes. this is why republicans are so comfortable saying that government by musk would be the will of the people. they don't see this as a clash between the elected and the unelected. they see it as a clash between the competent, as shown by their success in the private sector and the incompetent. the latter category, consisting of elected members of congress and bureaucrats that nobody voted for. so, dave, this is being sold as government efficiency. it's being sold as disruption. it looks to a lot of people, though, like unconstitutional chaos. >> yes. >> the republicans have that rebuttal. >> which is. >> what was anthony. >> fauci who. >> voted for him? >> what is usaid who voted. >> for that? well. congress in 1961. >> but there.

>> are democratic answers. >> i was. >> at this protest outside the labor department yesterday. they did have a. >> minor success. >> as you as. >> that washington post. editor pointed out that elon people saw. >> a motorcade. >> going by. >> wondering if. >> it was elon. >> they were they. >> were proud members. >> of. >> congress, that they had stopped him from going there. but the mood. >> at the protest. >> was not. >> as warm. >> as it was on monday. >> the first usa protest. >> you did hear a lot of people in that crowd. a couple hundred people shouting in the middle of democratic speeches, what are you going to do? what's the plan? >> do something. and some. >> of them literally. pointed over to the d.c. >> circuit court. >> which is next. to the department of labor, saying. >> we have to sue and it's. >> going to take. >> a while. and so democrats are in. >> this. >> position of defending a slow moving constitutional system, slow for reasons. >> slow for reasons. >> that were. >> designed 250 years ago. and republicans are. >> in a very. comfortable position of saying to slow. elon, elon musk can fix a company. he can fix the country. they are very comfortable defending this. >> every time i talk to republicans on the hill, there is really. >> no second thought. >> is it a good idea.

>> that. >> elon can. >> do this? >> they're welcome to not just. >> give their power away, acquiesce. >> to whatever. >> trump wants, but to defend the idea that. >> some things. >> that we thought were. constitutional might go to the supreme court and. >> be struck down to give more power to the executive. >> that's crazy. i mean, so many things have changed since i was in congress. but i've got to put that near the top in the house. as i said last hour, we guarded that that that article one power, the power of the purse. we decided we could get rolled over by the senate or the white house if we didn't have that power. that's the only power we had. and yet they're so willing to give that up. i am i am curious, dave. i understand it does take a long time for the wheels of justice to turn at times, but when you have something that is causing immediate damage, of course we see injunctions being filed and, and courts actually. moving

forward with injunctive relief to the parties that are trying to stop certain actions until they, they, they, they get get a proper hearing in court. i'm curious, why haven't we seen that happen with doge yet? what separates doge from birthright citizenship, which i know is a constitutional right, but this is also an article one constitutional right for the house. why can't a democrat file for injunctive relief to stop what's happening at us aid from happening? >> well, there are attempts to do that. the white house has. >> sort of backfilled. >> reasons by making musk a special government employee. and saying that this is possible. there are in the transition, there are beachhead teams, people who. >> don't see. >> administration. >> who come in. it takes some time. the drafting and writing of a complaint, finding a finding the plaintiff. >> but this is why republicans are very the white house, i should. >> say, and musk. >> and the. >> entire gop, they. >> see that. >> schedule. >> and how many.

>> people can be laid. >> off before the courts. adjudicate anything so. >> far, if you believe their numbers on who. >> is taking. >> this email buyout, offer more than 20,000. >> people by. >> the deadline at the end of this week. >> hopefully they're hoping to get more to 40,000. >> if that turned out. >> i heard this from people at the. >> rally, some. >> of whom. >> had been. >> out of. work or laid off already. you're not. >> going to get a chance. >> to come back to the job. >> you could sue for relief. >> you could go to the nlrb. >> which has no quorum right now, just the all of the. mechanisms that that democrats, i should say, anyone who works for the federal government or. >> americans in general, rely. on you can gum them up. >> and it. >> takes a while to. to sue. >> the republicans were in. >> this. position ten years ago. >> i'm not trying to compare. >> the two of the two of. >> them, but. >> they were baffled by how daca. >> could happen. they were baffled by other obama executive orders could happen. >> and it is. >> true that if. >> the executive acts. >> quickly. >> it takes a. >> long time for the other other branches. >> of government to act. as you were saying in this case, the

one of the branches legislative might not act at all because it wants this to continue. >> yeah. and they're certainly acting incredibly fast. peter, one of the things that i've heard from democrats is that the focus in the house particularly, is, is laser focused on retaking the house back in two years time. they're spending money already in. republicans might be vulnerable, which is early in the cycle, to try and soften up those districts, to try to win back the house. but if congress is abdicating its power and its responsibility and the power of the purse so dramatically at this stage, how much benefit can democrats get by taking back the house in two years time? >> well, obviously still better to have it than not, right? >> better than not. >> but it's what i'm asking. >> is. >> is congress so degraded by what's happening right now that it may not be the check that it was meant to be? >> well, i mean, of course, if they do get back the house, they would still have to have the senate in order to pass anything of any consequence. right? but they could be a block to ideas that would that the trump administration would like to advance. but you're right. if he just sort of simply absorbs power himself and says, we don't

need congress at all, then you're right. the house is less of a of a factor. we're going to see a real test, though, coming up, i think, in the spending debate we're about to have, because the republicans that we've seen repeatedly over the last few years can't pass large spending bills without democratic support. they don't they're not in that mood right now. they're not going to say, hey, yeah, go ahead and dismantle usaid and take all this power over spending, and then we'll go ahead and also go along with some sort of keep the government open, keep the debt ceiling rising plan. so republicans have have no margin for error whatsoever. now they may not balk at president trump the way they balked at speaker johnson when push comes to shove. but it's not going to be an easy path from here to there. >> i mean, that's what i have heard. i even had a democratic lawmaker on the show yesterday saying, right now, republicans have given us no reason to want to work with them in the way that we've worked with them to fund the government over the course of the last several years, because, of course, that's the dirty secret. there's 30 some odd republicans in the conservative wing of the house

republican conference who never vote for government funding packages. they need democrats on this. >> particular debt ceiling increase. >> absolutely, definitely on a debt ceiling increase. but when we talk about sort of the merry go round of reaction that we're back in on capitol hill, and when you see protesters saying to members of congress, do something, we all know that congress is a majority led body. democrats are in the minority, and no members of the majority want to come over. so what is there to do but be in the golden age of letter writing and press conference giving? is there anything? >> no, not much, because. >> democrats also yesterday. tried in the oversight. >> committee to subpoena musk and get some. some answers on what he's doing. and republicans found the votes and stopped that. they don't have. >> these tools. >> they're going to. >> do some shadow hearings. >> that's the thing the minority party can do. they can. >> set up, set up podiums, set up microphones and raise, raise, raise awareness, which which is something that. >> doesn't satisfy a lot of democrats. >> right now. >> but but yes. >> i don't think they're going to get. any territory they're comfortable with. >> until the spending debate. >> because one, republicans. >> are not very. clear on how

they're going to pay for any of this stuff. the math. >> on doge, we don't. >> need to get into. >> that, but we're. >> talking about cutting infinitesimal parts of. >> the government. >> and cutting tax at the same time. >> won't work. and also. >> there's this moral hazard where. >> democrats are looking at appropriations process and saying. >> if i. >> appropriate this, if i pour this sweat. >> and compromise and get something. >> i want and. >> you impound it, what was the point? >> and so the faith is absolutely collapsed. >> not that it was that. >> great a month ago, but but the faith that democrats take into this process is gone. based on the way trump and musk are acting. if they if republicans are. handing all this, all. >> this power, all this. >> plenary power to elon musk, why, why negotiate with these guys at all? and you heard that after the house republican retreat gave us no clarity on what their actual plan. >> was. >> that's democrats are not confident, they're not feeling good about that, but they're very cynical in a way that's going to affect those negotiations. >> dave weigel of semafor. dave, thanks so much. and let's talk about those democrats. senate minority leader chuck schumer is facing criticism over his ability to lead the party as it attempts to push back on the

more controversial moves by the trump administration. here's some of schumer's speech on tuesday at a protest of the closure of usaid. >> we are going to fight this fight. >> i am going to. >> stand with you in. >> this. >> fight. >> and we will win. >> we will win. >> we will win. we will win. >> we will win. >> we will. >> win. >> we will win. >> we won't rest. we won't. >> rest. >> we won't rest. we won't rest. thank you everybody. >> let's bring in former democratic congressman tim ryan of ohio. tim, you had a strong reaction to that appearance by minority leader schumer. your thoughts sir? >> yeah, i. >> just you. >> know, sitting here in ohio and watching that all go down, you just think that that is not the messenger. and that's not

kind of the visual we need, i think, to start turning this thing around. and i just i just think, you know, schumer's brand is not good. and all of the things that you guys just the, you know, itemized and illustrated, it doesn't matter if you don't have a message and a messenger that can communicate that thing. i think i think guys like chris murphy are lighting it up right now. you know, schatz is doing a great job. there are people out there that should be in front of the cameras, and there are certain people that should not be. the stakes are too high. and i thought, you know, those things look a lot like political rallies. this is a very serious time in our country's history. and i understand the importance of things like usaid. i said on the defense appropriations committee, those programs are critical, pushing back on china, on russia, lifting people out of poverty. but are we going to die on the foreign aid hill? >> like. >> no, that's not really a good idea. and so i think between the

message and the messenger, let's stay focused on these privacy issues. i thought liz shuler did a great job from. >> the afl-cio. >> let's put murphy and schatz and these guys, others in front of the camera, and you just can't go with the same brand that just got our clocks cleaned. you know, just a couple months ago. >> well, you know, the usaid issue, though, i think it's more than just, again, i, i think it's more than just foreign aid. and i say just foreign aid. i understand that may not be popular with a lot of americans, but as i've said time and again, we don't just provide foreign aid for them. we provide foreign aid for the strategic advantages that it gives the united states. for the intel that we get on al qaeda, the intel that we get on isis, isis, the intel that we get on chinese spies, the intel that we get on russian spies,

the intel that we get on iran all across whatever region the u.s. aid goes into. so that's certainly important. but, tim, i mean, this is what i don't understand about any of this doge stuff. i think if you and i were there, let's say you and i were there this week and we were members this week, you and i would hold a press conference. we would get the smartest lawyers around us. we would file for injunctive relief. we would hold a press conference in front of the supreme court. we would demand our d.c. circuit. we would demand immediate action because people are being fired. american interests across the globe are being shattered. children are starving. across the world, the united states reputation is being irreparably damaged, all by an unconstitutional act. you've got this. you've got this, like billionaire running around doing that, that, that, that members

of congress do. like he doesn't have the right to do what he's doing. and we would probably even say that at the press conference. not saying it, screaming and yelling, but just kind of laughing like, are you kidding me? he can't do this and go for injunctive relief. i've asked the question like a thousand times when are they going for injunctive relief on a guy going into agencies and, and like, shutting down agencies when he just doesn't have the constitutional right to do that? is it really that hard? >> well. >> i only. >> wish i could have. >> served with you. >> in congress. >> joe, because that would have. >> been that would. >> have been a lot of fun. but yeah, i mean, that's that's kind of what i'm saying here is like, is this the best we could do? like, where is the injunctive relief? where. where is where is the articulation to rank and file american citizens as to what the strategy is. here and,

and the legal strategy and. >> what's. >> the legislative strategy? what's the appropriations strategy like? get us in on the game here. so we know that there's actually a game plan here for us to push back on this. and i think when you're talking about debt ceiling relief appropriations bills, you better drag must end before congress like this guy needs not not for congress's sake. >> but for. >> the. american people. like. >> here's here's what. >> makes it complicated is the american people know the. >> government isn't. >> working for them. they know the institutions are broken. but you know who's going to fix it? and democrats should have some plan on reinventing government like bill clinton did over the years and something like that. but the. >> reality of. >> it is you've got to bring these folks before congress. they need to articulate to the american people exactly what it is that they're doing. you need to have that legal strategy. >> that. >> starts, you know, shutting some of this stuff down needs to happen immediately, because the rank and file people out here don't want to see a campaign

event with chuck schumer. i'm sorry to say it. i don't mean to be a jerk, but that's just not going to get people animated and ready to do what they need to do to push back on some of this stuff. >> so, mike, there is obviously always been frustration with the federal government. it doesn't move quickly enough. we need people that can go in and raise hell and do what ellen's doing, or do what somebody else is doing, but but mike, we have survived for 400 for 245 years, in part because madison created a constitution and madison created a government that was intentionally intended to frustrate the likes of people like elon musk. i i'm not just saying elon musk. i'm just saying in general, the thoughts

of and i'm not calling him this, but we've heard this throughout history. petty tyrants who would go in and try to take over the government. so they so madison, forgive me for having to explain this, but obviously a lot of members of congress didn't take civics classes. we have three equal, co-equal branches. article one and i will tell you the article one congress. they spend money, they appropriate money, they authorize money. and then they give that money to the agencies and the federal government. and yes, that's where the president goes in. and he knows how much money he has used there to use there. and then the courts decide what's constitutional, what's not constitutional. so people go, oh, okay, congress doesn't work. it's two. it's supposed to be frustrating. you got a bill, you got to take it through the subcommittee, and you got to

fight to get it out of the subcommittee. so then it goes to the committee of the house, and then you've got to fight and work to get it out of the committee, and it's compromised and it's chopped up and it's frustrating. and then it goes to the house floor. and if you're lucky, you get 218 votes. and then the senate, the house of lords, as we call them, they get their say and the house of lords determine how they're going to change it. then we have a conference committee. then it goes to the president who either signs it or vetoes it. he doesn't have a line item veto. he can't decide what he's going to take and what he doesn't want to take. and i will say the trump white house right now is setting themselves up for just a nightmare when they tried to negotiate with democrats, when they do actually need democratic votes, because they'll say, well, wait a second. my bill that i worked on for four years that i finally get, you know, the appropriations for the authorization for you, you're just line item, veto it in an unconstitutional way. why do i deal with you at all? so yes,

it's frustrating, but what has it led to? it led to an american century. it led to our government continuing 240, 245 years later. and i will say, despite the problem with a $36 trillion national debt, despite the problem with inflation over the last four years, the united states government is still our our economy remains the envy of the world and our military relative to the rest of the world, more powerful than any time since the end of world war two. so we're really going to just completely throw the rule book. we're really going to just throw the constitution out the window because we feel the vibe right now is a frustrated vibe. our feelings are we've we feel like we want to see this guy go around, run roughshod without

any constitutional boundaries. no. mike, please. this is ridiculous. you know, joe, god. love you. you've been talking now for a couple of minutes about an idealism and a sense of innocence that the country and the united. >> states. >> congress, both houses. >> used to have. i believe that that's gone. >> not forever. >> but it's. >> gone right now. and it's certainly been diminished. >> by the appearance of donald j. trump. and. >> tim. >> to you, i would ask you this in warfare, political. warfare or any. >> other. >> kind of warfare, the root. >> cause and the root thing that happens. is you've got to know. your enemy. and it appears. >> to me. >> that donald. >> trump, who has been. on the scene for a long. >> long time and he's been president now twice that the democrats seemingly. still do not know their enemy. >> this is. >> a man who. clearly jonathan lemire. >> read something that. >> he wrote on truth. >> social this morning.

extending his. >> view on gaza becoming the mar-a-lago of the. mediterranean or whatever. was in his head. this is. >> a man who cannot stand to be. >> corrected, and he's president of the united states. and we have the senate minority. >> leader standing. >> up there raising his arm. >> saying, winning. >> winning, winning. >> we'll win, we'll. >> win, we'll win. >> they will. >> not win. until they. >> know their enemy. >> how do you. >> fix that? >> well, i mean. you you got to make him less popular and you've got to pick your spots. i think there needs to be really some strategic maturity here as to what are you going to highlight? we're in a fractionalized media environment. you know, we've got social media platforms, you got the grammys, you got the super bowl. you got so much going on in this country from an entertainment perspective that these little snippets have to have to start feeding into a broader narrative. that's why i like the privacy stuff. i like how i like how chris murphy even

framed usaid around china and russia. like, we got to follow some of these people who have some idea and some level of savviness around the current media environment that we're in. and then i think the long term play, long term being a year or two, like there's going to be only certain things we can do in the short term that joe and i were just kind of talking about. you have to start laying the economic argument here. you have to you can't let the economic argument go. you got to start talking about the cost of things. you got to start framing this as average people who trump is supposed to be for versus the billionaires. and as you start to lay that out around costs, around the department of education, around these medicare, social security, these vital things that actually do mean something to people that when they come with their tax cut for the billionaires, it plays into the broader narrative. and so that's why i worry about getting distracted.

>> on. >> some of these, this agency and that agency, and having an explanation of why usaid is so powerful and good and an important part of our economic and military and global cultural strength. that's a big piece of it, general mattis said. if you're going to get rid of these aid programs, i need a couple more battalions. he said that and put the kibosh on cuts to usaid in those programs. when he was secretary of defense. but keep laying that economic argument out there. people are still struggling, they're still suffering, and now they're cutting jobs. now they're cutting services. now they're cutting the department of education for all the people, you know, with disabilities and the students who need help. and that all plays into the betrayal that is inevitably going to come, because it came in atlantic city many years ago when he didn't pay union workers and he didn't pay small businesses. so we've got to start laying the groundwork for that right now so that when we have the midterms, we're rolling into that economic argument. the tax cut has come, the economy

softens, the stock market's taken a hit. and now democrats look like they were foreseeing this. and they're on our side now which they don't think we are. and that argument is there for the taking right now. if you look at inflation that donald trump promised to bring down on his first day in office, look at the price of eggs, for example. so as you know well, tim, there are a couple of elections coming up next year in ohio. you've got a governor's election, and then the special election for the senate seat once held by jd vance. your name comes up all the time. and i can just tell you, even in liberal new york city, democrats say we need people like tim ryan. we need people like josh shapiro. we need people like wes moore. we need people like gretchen whitmer, normal people who speak english and understand the country. are you interested in both or either of those races right now? yeah. i'm not ruling anything out right now, willie. i mean, it's still february and we just got out of an election cycle. i know this may surprise

people, but i really love my life outside of being in congress for 20 years. i'm home more. i got a ten year old kid. i'm coaching them in football and basketball and taking them to practice and taking them to school. like just really precious moments that i think everybody remembers, you know, as being a parent and being home with your spouse and enjoying that life. so it's hard to turn, turn that off and go back. but you watch what's happening here, everything you all talked about, what's happening in ohio is, is in many ways worse than what's happening in the country and has been for decades. so i'm never going to rule it out. i'm interested in public service still, but i'm, you know, a few months away from making a decision on that and talking to my wife and getting her on board, too, would be a very important political move. yes, yes, a wise politician and a wise husband, more importantly. well, your voice will be a part of the conversation one way or another, so we'll keep our eyes

on you. former democratic congressman tim ryan of ohio. tim, always great to have you on the show. thanks for being here. >> thanks, willie. >> joe. >> peter baker of the new york times, thank you as well. it's always great to have you here, i just do i just want to say one final thing here. as you're talking about talking about what democrats should do. and this is not for peter. so you might want to take peter down. thank you. don't make it personal. don't make it about personalities. and democrats aren't going to be running against donald trump four years from now. like make it about the voter. it's not about who we who's our political enemy because we don't have political enemies. we have we people. we disagree with people that we're going to try to work with. one thing that bill clinton was so good at doing is sometimes he would be asked. at the same time republicans were

impeaching him that asked. bill clinton said, well, what do you think about this republican idea? he goes, it's a good idea. you could impeach bill clinton on a tuesday. he'd ask you to go golfing on a wednesday because bill clinton knew he needed your vote on thursday. and that's what was so important about it. so democrats don't make this personal unless they're making it personal about the voter whose life is affected, unless they make it personal about the people we are trying to help, not only for their sake across the world, but for our sake across the world. and i will say, i do think democrats should fight for u.s. aid. i do think it matters if a child starves to death in sudan this week, because something a billionaire is doing in a washington, d.c.

bureaucracy, and that doesn't line up with the constitution of the united states, i think that matters. but we don't make it about the billionaire. we make it about what we believe to be unconstitutional, what we believe to be unlawful, and the lives that we're trying to save and american interests that we are trying to uphold. it's so critically important. it's not about them. it's about you, and it's about what's best for you, what's best for your family, and what is best for your country. still ahead on morning joe, hollywood actor and director ben stiller is hitting back after elon musk amplified false claims that stiller took a humanitarian trip to ukraine funded by u.s. aid. we'll fact check musk's apparent lie. plus, our next guest has some firsthand experience on taking on elon

musk. his organization was sued by the billionaire, and he won. but as we go to break, willie, i hear you've got a great one for this weekend's sunday today. >> joe, this one's for you. really? or for the two of us? how much? i think this is our favorite actor. i think it's fair to say. or at least our most quoted actor on morning joe. over the last 17 years, we've been doing sunday today for nine years. and finally, at long last, we landed the big one. will ferrell will be my guest this weekend on sunday. today, just a week away from the 50th anniversary of saturday night live, where he starred. there it is. there's the cowbell. and then went on to make a long catalog of movies. we go through his favorite movies, his favorite quotes, and his rise to become one of the funniest people on the planet. will ferrell on sunday today coming up this weekend on nbc. and we'll be right back here on and we'll be right back here on morning joe. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday.

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real value from your life insurance when you need it. with abacus. >> actor and director ben stiller shutting down a false claim on social media, amplified by elon musk, the initial post claims stiller and other celebrities were paid millions of dollars by usaid to make trips to ukraine after the russian invasion. there, musk reposted a video which has racked up millions of views. stiller slamming the accusation, calling it totally false and adding these are lies coming from russian media. i completely

self-funded my humanitarian trip to ukraine. there was no funding from usaid and certainly no personal payments. the manipulated clip appeared to be a report from e! news, but e! news told afp news agency it is, quote, not authentic and did not originate from e! news. so a deepfake there. ben stiller, of course, has done great work in ukraine and around the world over many, many years, always paying for it himself. joining us now, imran ahmed, he is the ceo of the center for countering digital hate, which last year was sued by elon musk for publishing research about the spike in hate speech on the x platform. after musk purchased it. a federal judge dismissed that lawsuit. he also just won the elevate prize foundation's annual award, which aims to amplify the work of activists and nonprofit leaders. imran, thanks for being with us this morning. i want to get into the details of your case and why you think that's important for other people as we move forward with elon musk's role so elevated now

in the power of x to amplify lies, what do you make of what we're seeing right now, just in these last two and a half weeks since the second trump administration came into office from elon musk? >> well, look, mr. musk clearly has he's bought his way into. >> the highest echelons. >> of us. >> politics. >> and it's his right to do so. it's also his right to. >> to. >> to scrutinize the federal government and its spending. i mean, it's an. enormous amount of money that's spent every year and. >> every. >> every dime should be checked because that's. taxpayers money. but at the same time. accountability works both ways. >> and i think. >> what you. >> saw. >> with mr. musk when. >> he sued us, he didn't sue us because. >> we were our. data was wrong. >> he didn't. sue us for defamation. >> he sued us for the. >> act of doing research. >> he sued us. for the act of accountability. >> he sued us. >> because he. >> refuses to be transparent. >> with telling us, how do your. algorithms work? >> how do you make. >> content enforcement decisions? >> how does the advertising. >> work on your platform?

>> are the. adverts appearing. >> next to hate? >> and when. >> we did. >> that, when we shone a sort of a light on what he was actually. >> doing, held up a mirror. >> to his own platform. >> unlike me, when you know i don't like what i see in. >> the mirror. >> i sort. >> of have a shave, maybe have a haircut. >> he sued the mirror. >> so imran is, you know, this struck me as a kind of hypocrisy at the moment because you've got this group of young people going around the government trying to go through, as you say, we don't know whether they are just reading the code or potentially rewriting the code in some cases. but elon musk is fiercely protective of their secrecy. they've all wiped their social media posts, and when they were named in one publication, elon musk went on twitter and said, that's a crime. so it transparency and using his army to attack people like you is fine in one direction, but not the other direction. >> well. >> i guess that's how it works, right? when you're the general and you've got the army, you do what you want with it. >> you know, the average. >> person may call.

>> that an. >> act of breathtaking. >> hypocrisy. >> which at the same time is saying that he wants to hold the government accountable. >> for its spending. >> good. >> it should. >> be held accountable for its spending. >> and saying that he. >> wants to deploy resources to. >> do that. publicly funded. >> resources to do that. >> taxpayers are paying for those people and giving them. >> access to. >> the most privileged. spaces in the united states, you know, to the. >> treasury department. >> to all these. >> the access to. >> data about all of us. >> he's saying, you can't even know. >> who they are. >> that's bananas. >> that's like something from russia where. people with. balaclavas are walking into the treasury. >> and saying, give us access to all of your data. >> you can't know who we are. >> and of course. >> that's. >> the miracle of the. >> us system. >> there is no locus. >> there's no point. >> of power in the us system. that doesn't have checks and balances on it. that's the great experiment of america. can we have a system in which power is so sort of spread. >> across so many. >> spaces in which they're all. checking each other transparency without transparency. >> and accountability. democracy

dies. and i think that. the problem. >> that mr. musk has is that both when it comes to his platform and being held accountable when it comes to his actions in government, now saying you can't. >> even know the names. >> of. >> the people who are. >> deciding whether or not you're able to access medicare, whether or not you're going to get, you know, a program that might be essential for your life. >> he's saying. >> that you can't be told who those people are. and that, to me, would be breathtakingly hypocritical. and that's why it's ever more important. >> for a. >> strong civil society. >> a strong for journalists. >> to have the power to ask tough questions and get access to information about who's doing what, when. >> where, to whom. >> i think what we were talking about during the commercial is just the echo chamber that musk has control over now on x, it's a place where you can see mis and disinformation spread instantly, but it's also a platform that, especially in this town for policymakers, lawmakers, folks who are in the white house, it really is a dominant structure. but i think it's important for us to put into context how big or rather

small x actually is. and yet the influence that it's able to wield and why? >> well, it holds its influence. it's a tiny platform compared to facebook. it's 1/20 the size. it's tiny compared to tiktok. >> or to instagram. >> its power comes. >> in. >> who uses it? and the fact that its algorithm is particularly. it's particularly effective at holding the attention of politicians, of journalists who treat it like it's the real world. and because if you treat something like it's the real world, it becomes the real world. it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. so x is power is in the belief that it gives you a sense of what people are really thinking. now, when people start leaving that platform, you find that effect start to diminish. and what we're seeing at the moment is in a bunch of jewish leaders have just called for people to leave x because of the anti-semitism on their in our research, the research that we got sued for, what we found was that after he took over the platform, there was a tripling in the volume of hate speech against black people. there was a massive increase in hate against jewish

people. and i think those jewish leaders are saying we know what the normalization of hatred against jews and the lies that underpin hatred against jews, whether it's the blood libel 2000 years ago, it's the protocols that informed hitler or today's great replacement theory. they know that the normalization of that kind of hatred anywhere is a toxic cancer that leads to violence and terrible things. and we europeans know that better than anyone else. >> ceo of the center for countering digital hate, imran ahmed. imran, thank you so much for being with us today. we appreciate it. coming up, the film the substance, starring demi moore and dennis quaid, has been nominated for five academy awards, including best picture. the movie's director and writer joins us next on morning joe. we're back in two minutes.

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yourself. >> this is. >> the substance. >> i'm sue. sue, sue sue, sue. >> you're hired. >> a look at the critically acclaimed film the substance, nominated for five academy awards and starring demi moore. it follows actress and tv exercise instructor elizabeth sparkle, who is fired by her network when she turns 50 years old. to maintain her career, she injects herself with a mysterious drug called the substance, which causes elizabeth to give birth to a younger version of herself named sue in what the guardian calls, quote, a scene that is the most gruesome thing you'll ever see. unless, that is, you watch the whole film. joining us now,

director and writer of the substance, callie fargo. she's been nominated for best director at this year's academy awards, the only woman in the category. she also has been nominated for best original screenplay and for best picture as a producer. callie. good morning. congratulations on all these nominations and all the love this movie has got. i think it jumped to people's attention when demi moore won the golden globe and gave that memorable speech on stage, and now she's nominated for best actress as well. i want to get to your reaction to all of that. but first of all, the premise. where does it come from? how did you come up with this idea? >> thank you so much. i mean, the premise, like live with me. i think my whole life, you know, since. >> i'm a little girl, about all the pressure that i have, about what it is to. >> be a woman. >> like how you should be. >> what you. >> should look like, how you should behave. >> and i. >> think when i had passed my 40s and i was, you know, getting

toward my 50s, i really started to have those hyper violent thoughts that were telling me, okay, now you're done. my life is going to be over. and i. >> thought. >> what a crazy thing. >> you know, to think, hopefully. >> i'm not at the middle of. >> my life. >> and i thought it was time for me to do something with that in what i loved the most, which is film. and i really wanted to express the violence that, you know, all those injunctions kind of put on yourself and make you develop a very, very violent relationship, self-hatred, relationship toward yourself. so it was really something that i wanted to free from myself and kind of make explode all the boxes that we are supposed to fit in and show that, you know, i hope and i wish society could look at us for who we really are and not the fantasy that they project on us. >> carly, you've already won

awards for the film. you won at cannes for the screenplay. how important are the oscars still? how much? how much do they confer on a film? we know they don't necessarily lead to commercial success. not all films that do well at the oscars do well commercially. what would it mean for you to win at the oscars? >> i mean, for me, of course, it's a huge symbol. you know, i want to be a director since i'm 16, since since i did my very first little remake of star wars with a handheld camera at home. so it's really something that is part of me. that is my way of expression, that really defines who i am. so of course, and to get this recognition from the audience, but also, you know, by the people of the industry, it's a huge honor. and to me, like representation and symbolism are very, very strong. and of course, there are many amazing films and directors, you know, who don't get the awards. but of course, like the cinema still is the dream and the kind of

everything is possible. and for me, it has been a massive way of finding who i was and to express myself in a way where i feel free, where i feel powerful, and where i feel that my voice is, you know, recognized. so to get this, you know, attention and recognition for this, of course, for me, it's a it's very, very important and emotional. >> i love the review that we read at the beginning of this interview. and i'm going to assume that for you, of all people, it wouldn't perhaps be the case for me, but for you, having your work described as gruesome is exactly what you're going for. >> yes, i mean exactly. i really wanted the movie to be everything that we are not allowed to be in real life, and that i think that we can't be inside of ourselves. like, you know, we are asked in society to be gentle, delicate, delicate, pretty, thin, young and to

always smile, of course. and i really wanted the movie to do the exact opposite. to be loud, to be gross, to be excessive, to be violent, to be unsubtle. because i think that we do have all those things inside of us. they are part of who we can be as well, together with many other things. and i think we need to have the real voices of who women can be, to be expressed and to be shown. and that was my way of making the film, and i knew that i needed to stick to that while making the film, because many people wanted me to be less, to be less violent, less excessive. and i felt like the way for me to preserve and to be faithful to the dna of the film. and the very reason why i made the film was to keep to the way, my way. i wanted to express it. so, you know, sometimes it was a challenging process. but for me, that was the only way that this film had a reason to be outside in the world is to, for real,

assume and accept who i was and what i want to show to the world, and not what the world expects from me. >> one review. >> i. >> saw had it. >> as unapologetically gory, which it. >> clearly is. >> talk to us about the. collaboration with demi. >> moore, who. >> of course did. win has won an award, maybe more coming for her. >> role here. >> about this point in her career. >> the decision. >> to cast her and how you guys work. >> together to. >> create this role. >> yeah. so of course, i knew that the movie was, you know, the center of the movie was going to be the actress who was going to perform that that part. and i wanted, you know, when i was writing, i wish i could be able to work with an actress who would represent him herself. you know, this type of symbol of the star, what it is to be a star, to be looked at, to be loved, you know, because your looks through the eyes of other people. and when i started the casting process, i knew it was going to be a challenging one,

because i was going to ask an actress to confront herself, to maybe her worst fear. and i knew i was going to have to face some no's in the process, which happened. and when i sent the script to the meme, i said, this could be a fantastic idea, but i'm not sure she's ready, you know, to do a role like that. so let's not lose time waiting too much for an answer. and it turns out that she instantly clicked on the script like she had this connection. i think that the script arrived at a time of her life where she wanted to take the control of her life again, of her narrative like that, it wouldn't be through other people's eyes, but it would be through her own choices and what she wanted to show to the world. so when we met, i think the thing we needed to discuss less was the theme of the film, because i think both of us had been through, you know, the same things in different ways, of course, because we didn't have the same life. but, you know,

regarding all those injections, all those pressures, our relationship to our bodies. and so this was, you know, didn't need real discussion or explanation, but we of course, discussed about everything else because it's a genre film, very challenging, very technical that i wanted to push to the extreme. and i needed to share all of this with her, to be sure that she was understanding the full scope of the vision, and that she would be really willing on set to go that far. so we discussed a lot about the filmmaking, all the technical challenges, the huge work on the prosthetics, the framings, the pacing, of course, the relationship to nudity, because nudity is a real tool to tell the story, and it has a meaning. and, you know, all this, i think, allowed her to really see where the movie was going and to understand that the movie was a very specific vision, and she had to see if she was ready to

go for it. and she was. and she delivered. obviously. >> she is amazing in this film and already has the awards to prove it. the substance is in select theaters and streaming now on mubi, and the 97th academy awards take place on march the 2nd. oscar nominated director cary fukunaga. thank you for being here. congratulations on this film and we wish you the best of luck at the oscars. still ahead on morning joe, we'll take a look at how the white house and members of the trump administration are attempting to clean up the president's comments about the united states taking over gaza. our third hour continues right now. >> it is there an. >> inconsistency by republicans on one hand, where. >> we've heard. >> for years now. >> all we want to not. >> have unelected. >> bureaucrats in charge of things downtown. and yet. >> ceding article. >> one. >> powers to the executive branch under elon musk. is there not an inconsistency about calling for the elimination of the department of education? and

yet we've heard from some of your colleagues here this morning. you know, we don't want, you know, women to be. playing sports with men. and aren't. >> you ceding back. >> that power, then, as it pertains. >> to education. >> if. >> you eliminate the department. >> of education? >> no. look, i got to challenge the premise of the question, chad. you know me. i'm a fierce advocate and defender of article one. i mean, look, we are the legislative branch. there's a reason the founding fathers put the congress, the legislative branch, as the first article in the constitution, and we're going to vigorously defend that. but what's happening right now, i think there's a gross overreaction in the media to what is happening. the executive branch of government in our system has the right to evaluate how executive branch agencies are operating and to ensure that not only the intent of congress in funding mechanisms, but also the stewardship of precious american taxpayer dollars is being handled well. that's what they're doing by putting a pause on some of these agencies and by evaluating them, by doing these internal audits. that is a long overdue, much welcome development. that's what the american people demand and

deserve, and that's what's happening. so we don't see this as a threat to article one at all. we see this as an active, engaged, committed executive branch authority doing what the executive branch should do. >> that's interesting. that's not a threat to article one. >> listen, i'm. >> i'm a small government conservative, willie. i'm all for audits. i'm all i'm all for going going through things and see, you know, use best practices, see how you can save as much of the taxpayers dollars. you can save it. and running it efficiently. but he went on x and basically decided he was going to shut down u.s. aid, shutting down an entire department that was founded and authorized by the united states congress. so this is a violation of article one powers. and as a member of the house of

representatives, that's the one thing we always understood. we didn't have a lot of power. if the senate wanted to run over us on on other matters or if the white house did, but we had the power of the purse. and when you're holding the money and nothing can get authorized without the house of representatives, that's all the power you need to level the playing field. now, when they let an unelected bureaucrat shut down an entire agency because he doesn't like it and he goes on, you know, midnight rants on x, that's, that's that's one of the grossest retreats, one of the one of the most outrageous retreats from article one power that i've seen in washington in a very long time. >> yeah, plainly so too. i mean, mike johnson is a constitutional lawyer. he knows this. he knows better. but again, they won't cross donald trump. he wanted this. he wanted elon musk and unelected billionaire to just

freelance through the united states government to shut down, as you said, entire departments to offer buyout packages for people to leave agencies like the cia. this is elon musk at the right hand of donald trump, just doing whatever he wants to do and making those announcements on twitter. and speaker johnson knows that. by the way, that was a fox news reporter yesterday pressing mike johnson on elon musk increased power within the federal government growing by the day, it seems we'll talk much more about musk, usaid and other agencies being treated and targeted by that doge team in just a moment. also ahead, we'll bring you the latest on the legal fight over the trump administration's effort to limit birthright citizenship, with another federal judge now blocking that attempt. plus, the justice department offers clarification on fbi agents who worked on january 6th cases amid concerns there will be a purge at the bureau. but some of the day one orders from new attorney general pam bondi undercut the

doj's efforts to ease those fears. she promised to look forward, but immediately now, looking back to january 6th, we'll get expert legal analysis on all of that with us this morning, the co-host of our fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay, the host of way too early. ali vitali, columnist and associate editor for the washington post. david ignatius and former republican congressman carlos curbelo of florida. he is an msnbc analyst. joe, a lot to talk about this morning, a lot. >> to talk about. >> this morning. and again, you have the judge, this birthright citizenship ban, like it's being killed as many times as dracula in a in a bad horror movie by one federal judge, after another federal judge, after another federal judge. and we're going to see that. we're going to see that. and we had a guest on a couple of days ago that said, just just hold on. you just wait. the article three courts

are going to stop a lot of this, this, this unlawful, unconstitutional stuff that's being signed in by executive orders that were signed more for political impact. i heard this even from inside the administration, than they were to withstand judicial challenges. so i guess my question is, i've got two questions this morning. question number one, when are we going to finally see the lawsuits move on the u.s. side? and actually an injunction that stops that all of those actions right now that are literally unless unless the reports are exaggerated, literally killing people across the globe right now, this morning, this instant, when does that injunction come? because the richest dude in the world, just because he wants to, doesn't have the right to shut down a federal agency? mike johnson knows that. everybody knows that, except maybe the guy who's doing it. that's question

number one. question number two, jonathan lemire. why did it take so long for the new york mets to nail down the polar bear. you have hit on the burning topic this morning. you're right. pete alonso resigns with the mets fan favorite. he'd been a free agent. pretty contentious contract negotiations. alonso wanted 4 or 5 six year deal initially ends up settling for just two for 54 million total. in fact, he can opt out after after one. it was striking talking to a few people in the game in the last week or two, that the mets really drew a hard line with him, almost sort of daring him to leave. they were saying, look, we think you're worth this. we're not going to go beyond it, which is a bit of a head scratcher for an organization that, of course, just spent almost three quarters of $1 billion on juan soto and has the richest owner in the sport by far in steve cohen. but their general manager, willie david stearns, formerly with the

brewers, is. someone who uses analytics, uses sabermetrics to sabermetrics to decide a player's value. they drew a line on alonso. they wanted him to take a sort of a more team friendly deal, and turns out he did. he's, of course, had the big hit in last year's playoffs that helped them defeat the brewers and move on to the second round, and he will be back now for a team that has improved but still. >> plays in a very. >> tough. division with the braves and phillies, most notably. yeah, i mean, two years, $54 million is nice walking around money, but certainly not in the league of juan soto and ohtani and those other superstars. as you said, he is a fan favorite. over the last five years, he's hit more home runs than anyone in major league baseball outside of aaron judge. so great player, fan favorite. but they were for a while there. it looked like they were ready to walk away from him. but he will be a met and playing in that lineup with juan soto mets looking good coming up here. pitchers and catchers just a couple of weeks away. so that's some good news. let's get

back to washington. the white house is attempting this morning to clarify president trump's proposal for the united states to take over gaza. on tuesday, the president announced the u.s. should own the enclave, redevelop it and reallocate, relocate 2 million palestinians who live there to either egypt or jordan. those two countries have said they are not willing to do that. he also suggested american troops could be deployed to gaza to carry out that plan. the comments, of course, sparked international backlash, especially from arab countries. now, the white house appears to be walking back. part of the president's proposal while defending his idea. >> the president. has not committed to putting boots on the ground in gaza. he has also said that the united states is not going to pay for the rebuilding of gaza. his administration is going to work with our partners in the region to reconstruct this region. and let me just take a step back here, because this is an out of the box idea. that's who president trump is. that's why the american people elected him.

and his goal is lasting peace in the middle east for all people in the region. >> what president trump. >> announced yesterday. >> is the. >> offer. >> the willingness of the. united states to become responsible for the reconstruction of that area. >> it was not meant. >> as a. >> hostile move. >> it was. >> meant as a, i think. a very generous move. the offer. >> to rebuild. >> and to be in charge of the. rebuilding of a place, many. >> parts of which right. >> now, even if people move back, they would have nowhere to live safely because there are still unexploded munitions and debris and rubble. the definition of insanity is attempting to do the same thing over and over and over again. and as the president and prime minister pointed out last night, the president is willing to think outside the box, look for new and unique, dynamic ways to solve problems that have felt like they're intractable. >> joe, interesting to hear from defense secretary hegseth and secretary of state rubio there, because it's reported this morning in the new york times

that president trump did not consult either the department of defense or the department of state before making this announcement in an open press availability with prime minister benjamin netanyahu. so, again, what we're seeing is donald trump throwing out a radical idea. his staff scrambling in behind him, and really, the whole of the american government scrambling behind him to make sense of it or to explain it away. >> well, you know, and that really is and i've been saying this for months now. i've been talking about the need to separate the signal from the ground noise. and when. he said that, so many people sort of laughed, rolled their eyes, said, oh, he's just saying it. maybe sometimes he does that to distract from something else that's going on. maybe it's elon musk ripping through the federal government and trying to get access to things. he doesn't have the legal right to get access to. or maybe it is just as we've said about the tariffs from the beginning. maybe it is the opening bid of something present, something so shocking that other countries have to

reset in the way they negotiate. and that is the way he works. david ignatius and even though many of our allies and fewer of our enemies understand that, i know i spoke with people in the region over the past couple of days, and even if it was an opening bid, even if a day after everybody is saying, okay, well, they seem to be backing off. talk about your reporting and how our allies were were were deeply shaken by this. so our enemies, our enemies were thrilled by this because what propaganda for iran, what propaganda for hamas, what propaganda for our enemies at the imperialist america now wants to come over. but but, but talk about it. because when we say arab countries were upset, that used to be our enemies are upset. now, those arab countries, those sunni arab

countries are close allies. they were deeply shaken by this. and even the dhs had to send out, as you reported, a chilling warning about the possibility of terror strikes as a result of this change in posture. >> so, joe, like trump's tariff policies, what was shocking about this was that it was an assault on our closest friends and allies, jordan and egypt, which are the two countries that matter most in terms of the security of israel. the when the proposal was made, the reaction in the arab world was immediate. people were on the phone. i'm told that mohammed bin salman, the crown prince of saudi arabia, was talking yesterday to king abdullah in jordan, offering him assurance that that donald trump is not going to roll us into supporting this proposal. by midday, the reaction was so strong that you could see trump through the white house spokesman backing

away from some details of the plan. this had been announced as a takeover. we're going to take gaza, we're going to take it with troops. but by midday, no, no boots on the ground. the reality is that this is a this is a crazy proposal. the idea that the united states would take over property in the most explosive, war prone part of the world, and that a president who said i'm going to end middle east wars would be championing it. it's just it makes your head spin. it's likely that this isn't going anywhere. but is it the opening bid, the opening bid to what? the truth is a solution for gaza. the president's right. gaza looks like a demolition zone. i've seen it with my own eyes. every building you see in every direction has been destroyed. what's going to be done if trump's idea is a bad one, what's a good one? and there are lots of ideas out there. the israelis have been resisting many of the ones the us has proposed. if this is the

opening of a real discussion of about how you rebuild gaza, so much the better. but but trump's initial version of this was so disorienting for the region that it got a big pushback. and i do think is going to be fodder for terror groups that would like to inspire radical action in the united states. i did quote this morning a memo that was sent out in the early hours of yesterday morning by dhs, noting the likelihood that there would be protest demonstrations around the country and that if they turn violent, people would have to deal with that. so i think already there's a there's a sense that this may be triggering precisely the kind of threat within the homeland that we shouldn't be wanting. >> so. so, david, let me ask you if this was an attempt to throw everybody off balance and set up an opening bid for something different, because as the wall street journal editorial page said, going back to the status

quo with hamas in charge certainly is not an option. that was that was this morning's wall street journal editorial lead editorial. so what is this an opening bid for? is this an opening? perhaps the saudis, the emiratis, other, the jordanians, other people in the region coming in with an arab peacekeeping force? what what could this be an opening bid to what could and do you have any reporting on what donald trump was trying to get to? >> so donald trump's vision and this does go back many months and maybe even years. i had one senior official say, this is the deal of the century coming back. this we're going back to trump's first term. and let's just turn over everything and start again with american leadership. so maybe there are echoes of that. certainly jared kushner, his son in law, was talking a year ago. you can see him on on tape at a harvard seminar, talking about

the need to turn gaza into a wonderful waterfront. he was talking about moving people out into the negev desert, which is in israel, not to egypt and jordan. so this is an idea that's been cooking for trump. but he does have a sort of real estate developers sense of here's opportunity, here's a demolition zone. let's figure out a way to rebuild it in terms of what would be a sane alternative. >> david, hold on one moment. >> we're gonna interrupt you. we're going to cut in live. now, president donald trump speaking at the u.s. capitol. this is statuary hall. it is national prayer breakfast this morning. and the president making remarks. we're going to listen in for a little bit. >> maybe it will from the earliest days of our republic, faith in god has always been the ultimate source of the strength that beats in the hearts of our nation. we have to bring religion back. we have to bring it back much stronger. it's one of the biggest problems that we've had over the last fairly long period of time. we have to

bring it back. thomas jefferson himself once attended sunday services held in the old house chamber, on the very ground where i stand today, so there could be nothing more beautiful than for us to gather in this majestic place. it is majestic and reaffirmed that america is and will always be, one nation under god. at every stage of the american story, our country has drawn hope and courage and inspiration from our. trust in the almighty. deep in the soul of every patriot is the knowledge that god has a special plan and a glorious mission for america. and that plan is going to happen. it's going to happen. i hope it happens sooner rather than later. it's going to happen. and it's his hand that guides us every single step of the way. and all of. you and the

things we have to do is to see the defining role that faith and prayer have played in the life of our nation. and you just have to look at this building and you can look at each other. you can really look at each other. it's defined almost everyone in this room. i think faith has been very strong with the people in this room just steps away from here in the hall of columns is the statue of john winthrop, who famously proclaimed that america would stand as a city upon a hill, a light to all nations, with the eyes of all people upon us. today, almost 400 years after that famous sermon, we see that with the lord's help, the city stands taller and shines brighter than ever before. or at least it soon will. in that same hall, we also find the statue of the great roger williams, who

founded the state of rhode island, named its capital city providence, and built the first baptist church in america. it's williams that we have to thank % part of the bedrock of american life. and today we must protect the fundamental freedom with absolute devotion. we must stand strong. just like generations of americans have done on the battlefields all around the world, feet away from the magnificent rotunda, another statue watches over visitors to the capital. george washington, the founder of our country, often called for americans to join together in prayer very often. and more than two centuries later this morning, we heed president washington's wisdom and follow in his mighty

footsteps. he was a strong man and of great. religious strength. the stories of legends like washington, winthrop, and williams remind us that without faith in god, there would be no american story. every citizen should be proud of this exceptional heritage. we have an unbelievable heritage and we have to use that and make life better for everyone. that's why as we approach the 25th times ten anniversary, think of that 250, 250 years we'll be celebrating next year of our country's founding. i have signed an executive order to resume the process of creating a new national park full of statues of the greatest americans who ever lived. we're going to be honoring our heroes, honoring the greatest people

from our country. we're not going to be tearing down. we're going to be building up. it would be called the national garden of american heroes. some of you will be on that soon to be hallowed ground, some of you. let's see, i can pick a few of you right now by looking, because there's a couple of you right now. i can see. it's. let's see. it's the president's sole opinion. and i've given myself a 25 year period, and then somebody else, by that time, it'll be very, very built up. no, it's it will be something very special. and i hope that congress will fully fund this wonderfully unifying project at the first possible opportunity. it's not going to be a lot of money. it's going to

be very important, however, so that more of our people can be inspired by the faith and courage of patriots like those who we honor in these halls. one of the incredible americans whose memory my order will celebrate is also recognized with a statue in the capitol representing the great state of north carolina. and that's a man known who everybody loved. reverend billy graham. he was something my father used to take me to watch the crusades. he would take me to yankee stadium. i remember it so well. i remember it more than i remember any yankee game. and i've seen a lot of yankee games. can you believe it? and billy didn't have a bat, so, you know, he was pretty good. it was amazing. you'd have 60 or 70,000 people. and they loved him. they loved him. i saw him with franklin. i don't know if franklin's here. i just don't know. but i've gotten to know franklin. he's done a

great job with helping on tragedies and problems like in north carolina. california. he's always the first one there. work he does is his father is very proud of him, i can tell you that. but billy graham was very special. one floor below us, reverend graham's statue stands with an open bible. the page turned to a letter from the apostle paul which reads, let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up, never give up, never, ever give up. you can't. how about me? if i would have given up, i would not be here right now. who the hell knows where i'd be? it might not be a good place. if it was up to the democrats. it would not be a good place at all. never, ever give up. there could be no better message for the leaders gathered here. and you are real leaders, and we must never give

up. and we must never grow tired. we must never grow weary, and we always must practice. good. as you know, last week, only a few miles from here, our nation witnessed a terrible tragedy when 67 people were killed in a horrible accident near reagan airport. as one nation, we take solace in the knowledge that their journey that night did not end in the icy waters of the potomac, but in the warm embrace of a very loving god. none of us knows exactly when our time on earth will be over. you never know a truth. i confronted a few short months ago when there was an incident that wasn't. it was not fun. it was not a good thing. but god was watching me. the chances of me being here. my sons are shooters. they're

really good shooters, don and eric. and they said the chances of missing from that range with that gun are. but don equated it to a one foot putt. that's pretty bad. two feet i can see missing, but one foot you can't miss. it was the equivalent of a one foot putt, is what he told me, he said. in fact, he gained some religion. he gained he went up 25%. and if you know him, that's a lot. but he said there had to be somebody that saved you. and i think i know who it is. and he looked up and i said, whoa, don, that's come. you've come a long way. he's a good guy. but my two sons just really couldn't believe it. had i not turned that right turn just at that time. and the audience, 55,000 people standing this way, there were just a few people in the back on the bleachers. there was nobody over there except for

my all time favorite chart in history, a chart on immigration. immigration saved my life. see? so we're going to be good for immigration. okay. but had i not made that turn boom. and quickly, it was almost as though a deer bolted. you know, they say the only way you miss when you're a good shot is if it bolts. i bolted, i turned to the right to look at the chart and i said, wow, what was that? what was that? so you never know. but god did that. i mean, it had to be the chances of turning. there's no reason to turn to the right. you know, the chart is rarely brought down. i brought it down maybe 20% and 20% of the time. and it's never on my right. it's always on my left, and it's always at the end of the speech. never the beginning of the speech. and if i was a little more than that 90 degree angle, it would be no good. and if i was a little less, it would be no good. it had to be

perfect. thing went right along the edge. it didn't affect my hair. can you believe that? might have touched it, but not where it counts. not. not the skin part, but it's. no, honestly, it's a miracle it changed. it changed something in me i feel. i feel even stronger. i believed in god, but i feel i feel much more strongly about it. something happened. so thank you. >> thank you. >> but that event, like the tragedy last week, should remind us all that we have to make the most out of every singleening an without proper conol, we should have had the pror control. we should have had better equipme. we don't. we have obsolete equipment. they were understaffed for whatever reason. i guess the helicopter was high and we'll find out

exactly what happened. but the odds, even if youad nothing, if you had nobody, the odds of that happening are extremely small. it's like did you ever go to a driving range i golf and you're hitting balls, hundreds of balls, thousands of hours? i never see a ballit another ball. balls goingp all over the place. you never see him hit. and it was amazing that lot of mistakes made and its a should have never happened. but regardless of that, it's amazing that it happened. and i think that's going to be used for good. i think what is going to happen is we're all going to sit down and do a great computerized system for our control towers, brand new, not pieced together, obsolete, like it is land based, trying thook up a land based system to a satellite system. and the first thing that some experts told me when this happened is you can't hook up land to satellites, and you can't hook up satellites to

land. it doesn't work. we spent billions and billions of dlars trying to renovate an old broken system. instead of just saying, cut it loose and let's spend less money and build a great system done by 2 or 3 companies, very ■good companies, specialists. that's all it is. they used 39 companies. that means that 39 different hook ups have to happen. and i don't kno how many people have are of you e good in terms of all of the kind of things necessary for that. and it's very complex stuff. b when you have 39 different companies working on hooking up different cities at different people, you need one company with one set of equipment, and there are some, some countries that have unbelievable air controller systems, and they would have bells would have gone off when that helicopter literally even

hit the same height because it traveled a long distance before it hit. it was just like it just wouldn't stop. it was you follow the line, but bells and whistles would have gone off. they have. them were actually actually could virtually turn the thing around. it would have just never happened i we had the right equipment. and one of the things that's going to be, i' going to be speaking to john and to mike and to chuck and to everybody. we have to get together. and just as a single bill just pass where we get t best control system. when iand in my plane privately, i use a system from another country because my captain tells me i'm landing in new york and i'm using a system. i won't tell you what country, but i use a system from another country because the captain says, this thing iso bad, it's so obsolete, and we can't have that. so we're going to have the best system and a lot of money. but it's not that much money. and it'll happe fast, and it'll be done by total professionals

and when it's done, you're not going to have accidents. it's just not there, not there, virtually not possible to have. each of us is blessed with a america to renew, to renew our pledges ofaith and everything else, and bring us to new promise for our people and for ouelves. you know, we have the most important people in the country and a true sense here, because you're the ones that are going to make t decision. you' you're the ones that are leading us into so my different things, whether it's the right air control system or the right size military or what to do and what not to do, most important people and many of you are very religious. i know so many of youre very religious, and i just think that our country has been so badly hurt. we're very hurt by what covid did to religion. it reall hurt it badly. people couldn't go to chur for a long period of

time. even going outside, they were given a hard te and i'm not blaming anybody for that. but but i was very hard to gather. so they started using computers if that. and when they come back, it's just, you know, a whole new experience to have to get used to. but it is starting to comeack. we had a fantasc thing happened yesterday. the army had the best recruitment recruitment numbers that they've had in more than 15 years. they think it cou be 25 years actually. they're going to probably put that out. but more than 15 years just w. and we were worried about it. we were talking about it numerous times that, you know, we don't have people joining our military services. we don't hav people joining our police force. we have to cherish our police. it's so dangerous. you open a car and somebody starts shooting. they have blackened windows. you

don't even have any idea who who's in the car. oftentimes they have the dark windows, which not, in theory supposed to happen, but they have them. the door opens and aun is pointed at your face, and you can't do a thing about it. is just nothing you're going to do out it. your friends will take them out and it's happened so many tes, but you just it's so it's such a dangerous thing. we have to chesh these people. so today we join our hearts and prayers and recommitting to putting our country first. we have to put our country first, making america stronger and greater and more exceptional than ever before. and we have to make religion a much more important factor. now. we have to make it an important factor. and if we do that, it's going to be our job is just going to be much easier. it unifies people, it brings people together. democrats are going t be able with republicans. and i remember just as growing up, i'd see, you

know, i revered senats and congressmen or something very special, but they were out to dinner all the time. we had an old congressman. maybe som of his ci, halpern from queens, and he was a friend of my father, but he'd have dinner with he was a democrat. would he'd have dinner with republicans and he'd be out. it wldn't even make a difference today. it's like it's like shocking. a it shouldn't be. you have to get together. we really have to get together. we all know what's right and what's wrong, and it's going to be compromi on both sides. but we have to just do the right thing and we have to get together. you and you got everybody who's 99io votes. and the only vote was our vp who, who maybe we should have been there just to make it 100. but i think i would have been angered if it w 100. that might be a step too far, right?

but no, it was great to see a vote. pam bdi had support from democrats and some of the others had some pretty good support. so, you know, it's doable. and we had recent bill having to do with a very beautiful young lady who was killed from georgi. and that bill was very bipartisan. it was a very beautifulhing to watch, actually. and so i think we just have to if possible, we have to unify. there's big division. i mean, some people want an open border and some people want a closed border. w want it closed and they want it open. and that's a big differenc how do you solve that problem? it's a big difference. some people want men and women's sports and some people don't. and i was with somebody yesterday who was so upset that the bill was signed, where men cannot participate in women's sports. and i said, he's a very smart guy, went to a

great schl. he was a great student, and he actually feels, you know, that that should happen. m should be able to play, meaning transition into women's sports and you talk to him and it's just, you know, i don't understand it. i think it i don't understand how the problem ever got started in the first place. it just seems so simple. but he's a good person and jt believes it and just believes it. it'not going to be easy to convince him otherwise. so where is a middle ground? it's hard to have a middle ground. there's two ways. i mean, you can either do it or you can't. but i think a l of good things are going to happen. you kw, a lot of people might be surprised to hear me say that of all people, but i think a lot of good things are going to happen because our country's got some big headaches. but we have tremendous spirit right now. the spirit is as high as it's been. it was up 49 points this

morning. 49 points. that's a that's it's never been 's the biggest increase inhe history of whatever the pollas. so the spirit is there. that's a big factor. that's probably the hardest thing to get back to be honest. the rest is easy. the rest is easy. so i want to just thank you all. i wan to congratulate a lot of the new members. i see so many of you that ran great races. david. that was a that was a great race, but so many that ran great races and on both sides you ran some incredible races. so it's good to be with you and god bless everybody. we want to come together and the happiest the person, the, the element, the everything that's going to be happy. people of religion are going to be happy again. and i really believe you can't be happy without religion, without that belief. i really believe it. i just don't see howou can

be. so let's bring religion our lives. thank you all veryo much. thank you very much. great honor. thank you. >> and that's president donald trump. >> wrapping up a rambling speech there at the national prayer breakfast at the us capitol. >> his theme, if. >> there was one. was that. >> quote. >> we have to bring religion back. >> he said that. >> a few different times. >> during the speech, but he. >> touched on a lot of other. >> issues. >> including immigration, the tragic plane crash in the dc area from. last week. he also reminisced about a local. congressman that he had when he was a child in queens, who. >> would meet. >> with. lawmakers across the aisle. and he said he hoped for a bipartisan spirit again there in dc. but of course. >> his own. >> administration often engaging in rather. >> divisive policies, attacking. democrats every chance. >> he gets, including on truth social. >> this very. >> morning, going. after senate minority. leader chuck schumer, we're seeing president trump there make the rounds of

statuary hall shaking a few hands. he's supposed to deliver. >> another set of remarks. >> at a different. >> national prayer day breakfast a little. >> later this morning. also in washington, d.c. we'll keep an eye on that when it happens. coming up here on. >> morning joe. >> we'llive you a look at the new attorney general's day one directives. how pam bondi is already reshapinghe department of justice. that will be next right. right. >> here on morning joe. struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1 and you can help take control of your symptoms, with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. proven full-spectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. vraylar is not approved for elderly patients with dementia-related psychosis due to increased risk of death or stroke. report changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts

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>> don't miss the. >> weekends, saturday. >> and sunday mornings at 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> wre do people find the strengtho speak truth to power right now? you've got an administration. you've got a president ready, willing and able to take legal action against people doingheir jobs. >> i think. >> in 2025, politically. engaged people can find the strength to make their voices heard and try to help create a climate of opinion. >> that enables. >> these institutions, these people who run these institutions, to. >> do the. >> right thing. >> well, jon meacham, you have certainly my light tonight. >> domestically, there's growing concern about a trump administration purge within the fbi. loyalty tests and the like. but the justice department is now saying it will not target bureau employees who simply followed orders. acting deputy attorney general emil bove sent a memo to the fbi's workforce yesterday explaining that employees who carried out their duties in an ethical manner in regards to january 6th criminal cases, won't be at risk of termination or other penalties.

we'll see who gets to decide what an ethical manner looks like. he wrote this quote the only individuals who should be concerned are those who acted with corrupt or partizan intent to blatantly defied orders from department leadership, or who exercised discretion in weaponizing the fbi. meanwhile, pam bondi was sworn in athe new u.s. attorney general yesterday innval oice ceremo attded b presint trpnd adminisred b supreme couustice clarence as. it s the first cabinet swearing in cerony the prosutor a said she willu store,uote, impartial justice at the department. >> i think she's going to be as impartial as you can possibly be. i know i'm supposed to say she's going to be totally impartial with respect to democrats, and i think she will be as impartial as a person can be. i'm not sure if there's a possibility of totally, but she's going to be as total as you can get. she's going to end the weaponization of federal law enforcement and restore honesty

and integrity at the doj and the fbi. >> almost immediately after that swearing in ceremony, the attorney general got to work. bondi issued more than a dozen directives aimed at overhauling the justice department. in one memo, she created the, quote, weaponization working group to review the cases brought up against president trump, including the special counsel cases and the manhattan hush money case. so jonathan lemire, she said pam bondi did during her confirmation hearing she would be looking forward, seemed to say suggest that she would not be targeting any employees, that she was just going to do the work of the justice system. but in her first act as attorney general, promising to investigate the invesgators of donald trump. yeah, i mean, that messag is pretty clear. and this is what donald trump promised for two yea on th campaign til that he would attackhe so-called weaponization of governmen that he would go after the deep state. and we've seen that throughout what he a elon musk are doing, rooting out and destroying huge swaths of the

deral bureaucracy, or at least trying to. and now the department of justice. this comes, of course, on the heels of those eht fbi directors being fired. and now this chilling investigation of all those involved in january, six cases. and yes, you noted some that the bureau tried to provide some claty yesterday that sort of suggestinthat, no, no, it'll just be those who acted unlawfully. but you rightly noted who gets tdecide that. what's the discretion there? and certainly pam bondi, out of the gate, says this is going to be a major priority. and joe, we need to just talk about the setting for a second here. it's not just that this is the first swearing in that president trump attended. this was done in the oval office itself. these things do. not tend to happen in the oval office. we have seen other cabinet secretaries, even just recent days, and certainly with previous presidents, they get sworn in executive chambers, i believe kristi noem was sworn in at clarence thomas's house. even though there a wid varty of settings, the oval office is

unusual. message sent. >> yeah, unusual message sent. katty kay, what is so fascinating is how badly the entire investigating the investigators ruse has gone. we can go back to john durham, who completely humiliated himself, really destroyed a great reputation by, you know, coming up empty. one, one bad decision after another, one dismissed, case after another. so you have that example, and you also have chairman comer and his examples, of course, how badly that went where you ended up having fellow republicans, the wall street journal editorial page, everybody else going, please just stop when here's the biggest problem with investigating the investigators. when you investigate the investigators, you've got to bring up the underlying facts of

what the investigators were investigating. and donald trump certainly doesn't want that for january the 6th. does he really want to get the testimony that that the committee got? does he really want to go through all that? he doesn't want to bring up the hush money case? i mean, they they can do it internally. but but but to have it spill out publicly, that's just that's not good for donald trump. if he's really looking forward because looking back only digs up a lot of soil that he and his political allies do not want dug up. >> yeah, in some ways, for this administration, it might be much easier just to get rid of all of the fbi agents w were involved in the prosetion cases of january the 6th, rather than to actually dig into the details of it. it was interesting that it was announced on day one by pam bondi. she clearly knows who her boss is and wha he's looking for. having tha ceremony in the

oval office ithe white house. so unusual. but maybe she was trying to send a message. yes. lo, i'm coming strtraight out of the gate doing exact what ishat you want me to do. let's see how far it actually gs. but, congressman, when you lk at wt is happening aoss the federal government at the moment, whether it is in the justice dartment, whether it is in the cia as well, whether it is in the fbi, where buyou have been offered, what is the concern that in this bid to i get it to sort of disrupt the american government, which could do with some disruption with these buyouts. my experience with buyout offices, the people who are in the best position leave becau they can get jobs elsewhere. the people who are less qualified tend to stay. is are all of these agencies now, including the doj, are at risk of losing some of their best people? >> definitely. and look, in the era of trump, i think it's tough to sift through and figure out what is essential because there's so much coming at us all the time. this stuff at the

justice department is essential, right? when we're talking about the rule of law. i mean, it's not just about people's rights, but it's also just about the economy and business, right? everything in this country depends on the rule of law, on predictability, on an understanding that you have certain rights, that the government is going to protect those rights, not come after you. so i would tell the opsition, the democrats, who i think have been guilty of a sky is falling approach every day, especially during the first trump administration. i think they've learned a little bit this time, but this stuff is essential. the justice department, the cia, the way these employees are being treated in terms of the buyouts, look, i think probably people who were going to retire sometime soon might take the buyouts. the reports that i've seen up to now don't show droves of people leaving these agencies, but we do have to watch out for that. but going back to the topic of figuring out what the opposition should focus on, what the media should focus on, i think it's things

like this we can get distracted easily. we can fall intthe trap of, for example, gaza and focusing on that for days, at's likely not going to happen. that doe't have any immediate implications. what happens at the justice department does. >> yeah. also, you could add to that list the unelected billionaire having access to payments at the treasury department. the list is ve long right now. former republican congressman of florida carlos curbelo. carlos, thanks so much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> still ahead on morning joe, thousands gathered on capitol hill yesterday to protest the trump administration's efforts to shut down the country's top international aid agency. but the latest on the plans for a legal pushback. plus, we're taking a look at the sweeping upheaval elon musk has created across washington, as the billionaire's team seems to gain unchecked access to multiple federal agencies. morning joe is back in a moment. >> and here. >> we go. consumer cellular uses the same towers as big wireless,

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>> believe that the reason. >> there's conflict in gaza is because no one thought to give them a pickleball court. everything, no matter. >> what the crisis. >> may. >> be, everything. >> always comes back to real estate with him. >> we have an opportunity to do something that could be phenomenal. and i don't want to be cute. i don't want to be a wise guy. but the riviera of the middle east. >> and this. >> is good. look at the. >> reaction from his chief of staff, siouxsie wiles, who. >> is usually so unflappable. trump calls her the ice maiden. >> that's his nickname. >> now that what. you're seeing. >> is that is the. >> face of a. >> woman whose. >> soul just. >> exited her body at the speed of light. >> well, i'm not, i'm not, i'm not sure. there were many people on his team, jonathan, who completely bought into the idea. but it is interesting. we talked about it over the past several hours. of course, david ignatius, early on talking about the concerns that it's causing

across the middle east with our friends. also how how it's actually caused some, some grave concerns, even for the safety of americans. that said, it sounds like an opening round salvo, just like just like the tariffs and negotiation to some end. not exactly sure what end that's going to be, but obviously some some some real bumps along the road before we get to whatever that end may be. >> yeah. as i reported the other night. >> and i know peter baker did as well, trump had been thinking about this proposal in gaza for a couple of weeks, but only told a few people. for most aides, this was a complete surprise, and i'll note that expression on siouxsie wiles face. we saw the exact same expression reince priebus, john kelly, mick mulvaney, mark meadows, the rest that comes with the territory of being donald trump's chief and chief of staff. but they have walked back some of this idea, though, this morning on truth. >> social. >> donald trump still suggesting at least parts of it the u.s. should have a role in gaza. but

as you say, joe, the blowback from the region has been immense and would likely only grow. that's donald trump's plan for. yeah. go ahead joe. >> no, i was just going to say also, i mean, the as the wall street journal headline today says mideast powers reject trump's gaza proposal. and they do in the strongest of terms. and then the wall street journal's lead editorial about those beachfront gaza condos. it seems to me that what we're hearing now, not not necessarily from donald trump's allies, but from those who are pushi back. and here's wall street journal editorialage. critics deride trump's idea, but what are they attitude among those that aren't completely dismissing it out of hand, even though the wall street journal's case, they say there's no way this will ever happen. the question remains do you want to go back to the status quo? do you want to go back to what we had before, when

you had gaza being run by hamas, which, by the way, is a choice the palestinians made when they had free elections in 2005, 2006. but soon after those free elections, of course, gaza was seized by hamas. and if you were a political ral of hamas, well, you got taken to the top of a building and pushed off of it in many cases. so again, qution is this isn't going to work. but e question is what is the best way forward? and there are some people that are talking about a grand deal acro the middle east where donald trump normalizes relations with with saudi arabia and in exchange, saudi arabia and other arab states help bring about a two state solution with the backing of the united states of america. obviously, right now, that' not something donald trump has any interest in doing, and certainly nobody in his much. in fact, what we're as hearing from a lot of people in the administration are, they believe, the west bank, if you

read the bible, belongs to the jewish people, and they would agree with donald trump that the palestinians should be pushed out of their own land, that is definitely not going to be happening anytime soon. >> no trump. >> a close trump aide, told me yesterday we shouldn't overstate, in fact, that the idea that trump does want that grand deal, he does want a grand deal. he also has been ruminating privately about how he feels like he's due for a nobel peace prize, and sees this as perhaps his tict to do so. but we know, just as one example of how close ties he has to e saudi kingdom. they said instantly it was 4 a.m. in riyadh when they put out a statement hours after trump spoke, saying, this will not happen. we will not we will not normalize relations with israel unless there's an agreement to a two state solution. so certainly their foreign policy experts who say,eah, it's worth coming up with new ideas. the status quo isn't working and hasn't for generations. but in order to have sbility in the region, there's going to be need to be a home for the palestinian people. so that's donald trump's current

focus overseas. back here at home, though, it's elon musk and his department of government efficiency continuing to gain access to federal agencies as part of trump's push to reshape and slash washington. we've got two reports for you now, beginning with nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett hake on president trump's aforementioned proposal for the gaza strip. >> this morning. >> trump administration. >> officials trying to walk back key parts of the stunning proposal. >> the president laiout for a u.s. takeover of war torn gaza. >> secretary of state marco. >> rubio, now. suggesting any u.s. >> involvement in gaza. >> would. >> be temporary. >> the only thing. >> president trump has. >> done very generously. in my view, is offer the. united states willingness to step in and clear the debris, clean. >> the place. >> up from all. >> the destruction. >> but on tuesday, at a news. >> conference with israel's prime. >> minister, the president. >> clearly saying the u.s. could remain in gaza indefinitely. >> i do see a long term ownership position, and i see it

bringing great stability to that part of the middle east. >> mr. trump. >> also did not rule. out sending u.s. troops. >> if it's necessary, we'll do that. >> the white. >> house ted to change. course when we asked. >> how that. >> fits with his. often stated opposition. to u.s. involvement in the middle east. >> can you explain this. >> reversal and how building. >> andwning. >> gaza squares with america. first foren policy? >> i would reject the premise of your question that this forces the united states to be entangd in conflicts abroad. the president has not committed to putting boots on the ground in gaza. he has also said at the united states is not going to pay for the rebuilding of gaza. >> this morning. >> the president himself. >> clarifying. >> saying gaza. >> would. >> be turned over to the united states by. >> israel at the conclusion. >> of fighting. >> and that. >> no u.s. troops. >> would be needed. >> some allies. >> calling it. >> an opportunity. >> to remake the middle east. >> this is a bold, decisive move. >> but many. >> senate republicans. aren't buying it. >> i'm not supportive of having

the american people pay to rebuild gaza. >> i don't. >> think that's our. >> responsibility. democrats using even. >> stronger language. >> absolutely dumb. >> tremendous potential. >> overnht. butt.suredo hit the pse >> agring t >>emporaly resict. >>he accs. >> of. elon musk's dartmenof governnt efficiency. or doge. >> to the treasury. >> department's sprawling. >> payment system. >> he's done a great job. >> but treasury is just one part of musk's plan, which includes changing parts of the. >> government that. >> directly impact. millions of americans. overnight. >> medicare and medicaidof. confirming it's worng with doge. >> to. >> they say, find ways. >> to use resources. >> more efficiently. quote. in line with meeting the goa of president trump, musk d twted of the ancy. >> thiis where >>he big. >> money fraud is happening. and the trump administration. >> also potentially. >> shaking up. >> the intelligence.

>> community, offeringuyouts at the national security agency and at the cia, which recently sent an unclassified email with a list of all employees recently hired, including first names and last initials, to comply with the white hse's goal of staff reductions, according to a us official. >> we've put a. >>ot of people needlessly. >> at risk here. >> republicans arguing musk's work is merely a necessary review. >> i think they're doing right by the american taxpayer. >> the most dramatic change so far. the u.s. agency for international development effectively shut down yesterday. billionaire microsoft co-founder bill gates, heading to the white house to meet with president trump, later telling savannah he made the case for foreign humanitarian assistance and usaid. >> you know, i. >> know all the development agencies of all the countries, and. >> this is the. >> best of them. >> they seem receptive. did the president seem receptive?id siouxsiles sm receive? >> i hope so. >> with protest natioide over th ear trump administration

policies, democts saying their constituents are concerned about musk. we need. >> to. >> shut down the musk operation. republans argue thi is donald trump making good on his campaign pledge. >> he is delivering on his promise. >> made to. >> the american people. >> that was nbc's. >> ryan nobles with that second report. and it is telling how democrats are really targeting musk with a lot of their criticism. and maybe it's having some effect, because the number. >> of. republicans who. >> also want musk to have significant influence in the trump administration has fallen substantially since trump. >> was elected. >> according to a new economist yougov. >> poll. >> 26% of republicans say that they want musk to have a lot of influence. that's down from 47% in november. a steep drop meanwhile, 43% want musk to have, quote, little influence and 17% say none at all. additionally, former republican

congresswoman liz cheney. took a swipe at musk on social media earlier this week after musk wrote interesting in a thread that he reposted that claimed that cheney, who led trump's impeachment and the mass imprisonment campaign against thousands of trump supporters, was spawned out of usaid. cheney responded to that, saying this damn right, elon, i'm proud of what america did to win the cold war, defeat soviet communism, and defend democracy. our nation stood for freedom. you may be unfamiliar with that part of our history, since you weren't yet an american citizen. so, joe, some strong pushback here, not just from this republican, from former republican liz cheney, but from democrats across washington who we've talked a lot about on the show have had trouble finding their voice here in the early trump era. but they seem to be finding a rallying cry to say that what musk is doing is wrong. >> well, yeah. elon musk is

taking a lot of the heat right now. and i mean a pretty big target. richest guy in the world, somebody that goes out and does the most outrageous things on online. so it is fascinating. and the liz cheney back and forth also quite fascinating too. you're not going to out conservative liz cheney, certainly not on the cold war. and of course, liz reminding everybody elon wasn't even an american citizen when we were winning the cold war. and liz cheney was was doing her job in that. with us now we have let's bring in new york times opinion columnist david french, also former msnbc host and contributor to washington monthly, chris matthews. david, i have so many ways i want to go with you here, but why don't we just start? because, you know, rhetorical shots were fired there between liz cheney and elon musk. for those of us who

are cold warriors, we understood the importance of hard power, the military. and yes, we understood the importance of soft power. we understood the importance of ideas. we understood the importance of aid. i will repeat it for the thousandth time this week, since u.s. aid became an issue on this show. there's a reason why harry truman, after attacking herbert hoover his entire political life, called in herbert hoover after world war two, ended and said, we've got a refugee crisis in europe. if those people aren't taken care of, we're going to have communism in western europe, go get to work. and now all across africa. yes, we i'm extraordinarily proud of what george w bush did with pepfar. i'm extraordinarily proud that his evangelical faith pushed him to start a program. and it was his evangelical faith that pushed him to start a program that has saved 25

million lives in africa right now, as of today, that number will continue to grow. so i guess there's a two part, two pronged question for you here. one, the evangelical side of things, the matthew 25 side of things. and then secondly, just, yes, we're doing this for all the right reasons, but we're also doing it to help ourselves because we get we used to get great intel on the soviets. now we get great intel on al qaeda. we get great intel on isis, we get great intel on china, you name it. u.s. aid gets us on the ground, and people want to be on our side. >> yeah. let's talk about the second. >> part of your. >> question first, because people. >> forget the cold war wasn't just a military contest. who had the bigger military? who had the stronger nuclear deterrent? it was a contest of systems across

the entire spectrum, including a moral contest where. our consistent message to the world was the west, led by the united states, is a beacon of freedom in humanitarianism compared to oppression and grinding poverty behind the iron curtain. and so this was a contest of systems. and so, yes, absolutely. american foreign aid, americans, america's moral force in the world was a huge part of the cold war. this just wasn't just a military contest. and to the first part of your question, joe, look, a lot of americans do not realize that this elon musk effort and usaid and other parts of the government has explicitly targeted evangelical ministries. these are evangelical ministries who fought for years to have the ability to have equal access to funding, to help serve the poor, to help serve some of the most vulnerable people in the world. and so you're seeing what you're seeing is a targeting of some of the best things america has ever done, including, you know, as

you're talking about pepfar, you're talking about targeting evangelical ministries who serve refugees. this is a comprehensive attack on america's moral and humanitarian standing in the world. and i'm sorry to say, joe, an awful lot of americans are standing and cheering every element of this. >> and they need to understand what you just said. this isn't like left wing quote marxists. again, you look at pepfar that was driven by george w bush's faith in jesus christ. that's why he was pushing it back in the 1990s, i teamed up with abe rosenthal, former editor of the new york times. why did we focus on the 2 million people getting killed in sudan? christian persecution in sudan, christian children being sold into slavery for a couple of dollars, christians being like, persecuted, crucified in sudan. and the focus for much of that

was through the state department and u.s. aid. david. evangelicals, i was there focused on that. george w bush in the 2000, focused on that. this is not about left wing marxists. this this is in large part about evangelicals like myself on a smaller level, like george w bush, on a much larger level, like being driven by our faith to help the poorest among us, those people that jesus would say needed help the most. now, in a perfect world, would we need a government bureaucracy to do that? in a perfect world, no, we wouldn't. but you know what? when children are starving to death in sudan, when, when tens of millions of people are dying across africa. george w bush used pepfar being funded through u.s. aid. and nick kristof, of all people, nick

kristof has had a lot of good things to say about george w bush. nick called it who i love. nick called it the single most effective government program of his entire lifetime because george w bush, through his faith, through u.s. aid, through pepfar, has saved 25 million souls. >> it's incredible. it's one of the best things this country has ever done. and as you were saying, it was led by an evangelical conservative president. and look, i want to focus back on these christian relief agencies that are receiving they're on the verge of being defunded on a mass scale. this is the kind of thing that if the biden administration had targeted these evangelical and catholic relief agencies in the same way, you know, this would lead right wing media day after day, hour after hour, some sort of war on christians. but then when elon musk does it under a trump administration, then it's okay then then it's

all just fine. it's these evangelical ministries can be put in a state of crisis when again, what are they doing? they're fulfilling the commands that are given almost 2000 times in scripture to serve the poor, to serve the vulnerable. this is the kind of thing that for years and years and years, growing up in the church was. it's how we defined ourselves. this is how we this is was our primary interaction with the world in our service of the poor. and here you have a republican led government hitting these christian relief agencies in such a way that it's going to harm the most vulnerable people, and it's going to harm these ministries and damage them for >> so, chris., potentially. >> matthews, let's bring you in on this. we had former congressman tim ryan on the show earlier tay, who was pretty critical of what he'seen as the democrats strategy so far, standing in opposition to trump and musk, saying too many speeches, you know, these are the wrong faces. ts isn't how you do it. we know the democric senators have been on the floor there mt of the night, talking and tryin to

delay proceedings for the omb director, russ vought, who seen as many as an author of the project 2025 plan. so if that's not the answer, chris, what do the spirit of compromise, the spirit of patriotism, the spirit ofdherence to the democratic ideals of the united states of it sounds lik someonehat power tohat they have the >> thom tillis. >> and >> susan collins. >> and. >> cassidy all tried to question the appropriateness of these nomies for cabinet positions, and every one of them has been erased basically chasing back to their cornersgain. and so a

lot of people in the world, the country of jordan right now, is thinking about the. king abdullah. >> must be thinking. >> oh. >> my god, he's. >> going to send. >> hamas into my country, which is already 60% from the west bank. this is going to be hell to pay. the same with el-si. our friends in the world, republican, reasonable, reasonle, republicans, cana. all ese people are shaky right. now because of what trump's been doing, from the pardon to this gaza craziness, this whole thing. what is he trying to do? he's shaking up the people in the middle who are trying to make it wk. and i think it's really dangerous. and i think going after the aid people working. >> working at. >> aid, aid and of course. >> pepfar, which was started. >> by michael gerson, a speechwriter for president. george w bush, who really believed in his cause. he dd young. he really caused joe, you know, about him. he was really a big part of this thing. they did this. they did the right thing. >> ronald reagan.

>> once said. every time he meets a third world leader, the guy says to. >> him. >> and don't take awayhe peace corps, that. >> really matters. >> to . so it's not just a partizan thing. it's not just democrats, john. it's the reasonable republicans as the country has believed in foreign aid. it believes in trying to be the good. >> guy in the world. >> who say. we have honest elections in this country. we have true democracy in america. >> we got something. >> to brag about when we go overseas. >> i felt that way when. >> i was in the peace corps. >> i come from a country where they have. >> honest elections. i'm proud. >> of that fact, proud of being in. >> the peace. >> corps, but bigger. >> and much greater pride is being an american and coming from a country that believes in. honest elections. and trump has screwed. >> that up. >> the guy is everywhere screwing things up. i could. >> go on a tirade about the guy. >> but everywhere. >> you go. >> from the capitol police to our friends. >> in. >> the middle east like. >> jordan. >> he's scaring the hell out of people. >> yeah, and it's ubiquitous is. >> certainly the point. chris. >> while you were talking. >> democrats continue to hold the upper chamber. we got a brief look there of senator cory

booker of new jersey still protesting from the floor. let's now bring into the conversation washington bureau chief at usa today, susan page. susan's latest piece is titled president trump's stunning start reshape the government, remake the world. and, susan, let's read from this now. you write in part, president donald trump, the sequel has moved in his opening days with a velocity faster than any modern day president, testing the boundaries of his power and challenging thehecks and balances that have marked america's democracy from its founding. he has even pitched plans to redraw the map of the world, from greenland to gaza, to remind it's only day 17, the ideaf a 100 day action plan, the milestone set by franklin d roosevt when he took office in the midst of the nation's worst depression, now seems almost quaint, like snail mail, helped by a compliant congress, trump

2.0 is moving at fiber optic speed with more discipline and bigger ambitions than during his first term. his efforts to reshape the government, dismantle what he calls the deep state, and assert u.s. global interests with the threat of a hammer, will almost certainly be challenged in courts by critics who say he's exceeded his authority. but trump and his compatriots calculate that will take time and a coordinated opposition that is still struggling to find its footing. amid the barrage of his actions. susan, it's a fascinating piece. and trump aides acknowledged some of this stuff they're just throwing at the wall. they know it's not all going to work. we noted earlier in the show that his effort to revoke birthright citizenship has been decisively knocked down by the courts a few times now, but there is a method to this so-called madness. he has some real goals, and a lot of them seem to be tearing up the federal government itself, whether it's usaid or the fbi.

>> yeah. >> you know, executive orders are instantaneous. court action takes a long time by design. and so president trump can move ahead on some of his efforts that his own lawyers, i assume, are telling him are exceed his authority and get things done before there's the possibility of. >> of reversing them. >> and you know, that will number one, that will have an impact. we know that rebuilding something takes longer than. >> tearing it down. >> and it. >> also gives them just a lot of options. as you. >> say. >> some of these things will be upheld. some of. >> the actions. >> he's taking are within his authority. but even those that stretch the boundaries of what other presidents have. seen fit. >> to do in the. >> past. >> some of those will probably be upheld. >> so we have seen. >> now we're at day 18, we. >> have seen really. >> the most extraordinary. start of. >> a modern president. >> of the modern. >> so, david, you.ever. >> wrote in your latest piece about some of these legal

challenges, and you say that the first two and a half or so weeks of the trump term is. >> a series. >> to it's a mistake to think that it's a series of discrete and separate constitutional legal challenges, but rather one crisis. you deem it a legal hydra. some evocative language there. tell us more what you mean. >> yeah. don't look at all of these separate incidents and trump initiatives and orders is very is discrete different things. they're all part of one thing. and that one thing is a dramatic expansion of the power of the presidency in the united states. and frankly, as we've seen with the gaza proposal across the world. so what we're talking about here is that trump, the trump administration, is very intentionally testing all of the boundaries at once that have been placed around presidents by our legal system, by our constitution, by tradition. he really is sort of trying to become a singular figure. and in fact, he's trying to become the singular figure that a lot of people warned about that america was

vulnerable to. back at the beginning of the founding of the republic. but there is a very deliberate strategy here that isn't just flood the zone on policy so that, you know, as susan was rightly saying, hey, they win 2 or 3, they view that as a win. so there's a flood the zone on policy, but it's all towards a particular e. and that particular end is a dramatic expansion of the power of the presidency, a freedom of action for trump that no esident outside of, say, the civil war or worldar two has ever exercised, and that that is a direct attack on the very structure of our government. >> yeah. >> chris. >> david couldn't be more right. that's at the heart of all of this is expand the executive branch, expand the powers of the presidency. do you think, though, that americans, including some who voted for going on? are people payingat's attention? do they realize just how fundamentally he's ying to change things? >> you know. >> when you look at the scenes, which we look at so. >> often and should of what happened on january. >> 6th. >> and 21. >> if you look at that as almost

a slow. motion machine. you're watching trump in action in the second term. everything he's done from. >>he pardoning of. >> those people who committed those cris against the police. and by the way, did youatch him this morning talking very prayerfully at the prayer breakfast about how he cares about police and how theyace danger every day, from people. >> with darkened. windows and. >> have guns inside those those are. >> also the. >> police on capitol hill. a lot of them are dead. >> and that's because of his people supporting the pardon of those people now. and i think he is trying. >> to bring down the party. >> t advise and consent. >> i've got an. >> old edition. >> a first edition. >> o advise and consent, a great book. >> that me out in 59. >> a long time ago. but it's about the right of the congress to decide. on cabinet appointments. they get to decide every one of them. it's up to them as well as the president. they confirm or don't confirm, and sometimeshey doot confir this time ilooks like they're bound and gagged. >> like i don't know what. >> prisonershey're completely. >> accepting of. >> thom tillis. and cassidy and.

>> sus collins. >> they have all buckled. and i like these people. they're reasonable people, but they're buckling to trump. >> and with getting. >> rid of agencies. i mean, you know, you've talked about this today, the very. >> important rol that herbert hoover. played in the truman administration. >> well, he also did the,he, the what. >> do you call it, the hoover foundation. and he he came. >> in with all. >> these reforms of government. >> all this uer the goodwill. >> of harry truman. >> this new. >> guy. >> musk is just getting. >>id of aid. anything.ld be getting rid of >> we don't know. >> he's going. >> to get rid. >> of pepfar. all these agencies. >> are scared to death right now of trump, of trump and elon musk. >> and i'm i'm. >> still hoping they're going to get into. >> a goo >> fist fight between the two of them. we'll get rid of one of them, probably elon musk, because he didn't get elected. that's his problem so far. but i'm really worried about. the it's been pointed out that he's an american citizen. i didn't even know he. >> was an. >> american citizen. he doesn't act like one, but he. >> does. act like he's one of the. >> bosses right now. and i think

it's really. >> diminishing,iminishing the power. >> of the democratic party, diminishing. >> the power of the congress, which is the first. >> branch of government. and it. >> doesn't seem. >> to bother anybo in the country right now. they watch him demolish. just like gaza. >> demolished the us. >> congress. >> take away the. >> personal protection, the secret service, protection of people he doesn't like.e's done everything he can but disown these people, and he seems to be getting away with. >> it with his crowd. >> yeah. >> if past is prolog, donald trump will eventuallyire of an aide who outshines him. but that has not happened yet. reporting actually from the washington post this morning that musk and his team at the office of personnel and management now looking into their systems, chris matthews and david french, our thanks to you both. we should note president trump speaking right now at a second national prayer day service. we'll keep an eye on it. we'll go to it if he makes any news. coming up next here, though, on morning joe. first it was tick tock. now it's deep sex turn as lawmakers plan a measure that would ban the app from u.s. government devices over worries

that user info could end up in the hands of the chinese. cnbc's andrew. >> ross. >> sorkin joins us next with those details. plus, democrats on long island are suing to block plans for an armed volunteer force. we'll bring you that story when we return. you're watching morning joe. >> we'll be. >> we'll be. >> right back. ♪♪ some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking allstate first. - we won. - [cheering] before you storm the court. ♪♪ ♪okay, okay, okay♪ [owww] yeah, checking first is smart. it's overtime. so check allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. ♪♪ you're in good hands with allstate.

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>> the u.s. are also growing, with nasa, the navy and. >> texas state. >> government workers blocked. >> from using. >> the chinese owned. >> app. all citing. national security concerns. >> deep sea spells it. >> out right. >> in its. >> privacy policy that they. are tracking. >> user keystrokes. >> and they are saving. >> that data. >> on chinese servers. >> what does that mean for users? >> where is that data going? is it to companies we trust, and are those privacy policies reflective of that? >> now, cybersecurity firm ferut says it's found evidence. >> users data is. >> going to chin with. >> the ability to send that. >> data to state owned china mobile, a telecom company already blocked in the u.s, with the. pentagon citing. >> ties to the. >> chinese military. still. users don't seem to be scared off, with more than 16 million downloads since its launch. this, as openai. >> is. investigating whether deep sea. >> used its models inappropriately. >> to build. >> a. competing app. with so much buzz around deep. >> sea. we wanted. >> to use the app ourselves. against the us's most popular.

>> ai. >> ctbot, chatgpt. starting with concerns, deep sea censors. >> its answers. >> let's see what. >> happens when i ask both. >> deep. >> sea and chatgpt. about chinese leadership. what do you. think of president xi? >> deep sea just. >> started an. >> answer and then. immediately said. >> sorry. >> that's. >> beyond my. >> current scope. >> let's talk about something else. >> whereas chatgpt. >> is giving. >> a. >> detailed answer. when asked. >> what happened. >> at tiananmen square. >> deep sea simply refused to aner. >> it's going to generate and then its rules are going to ll you, hey, nope, you're not supposed to say that. wipe it. >> i asked both to compose an essay of someone they admire. >> okay, thepicked the same person. >> both deep. >> sea and. >> chatgpt are saying. they admire malala. >> the concern is that you've got an account with deep sea, which is a chinese owned company. is our data the data that's all over our phone, all

the signals that the phone can get and that app can get going to the chinese. >> and there's new reporting this morning on the chinese ai app, facing possible new restrictions here in the united states, lawmakers plan to introduce a bipartisan bill later today banning deep six chat bot application from government owned deves. that chat bot is currently the most downloaded app in the united states. joining us now co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box and a new york times columnist, andrew ross sorkin, as well as editor at large at newsweek. tom rogers, great to see you both, gentlemen. andrew, starting with you, we sort of did this dance with tick tock, tick toc us government devices. now it's deep sea, which of course has simply rattled the a market and bend since its debut a few weeks back. give us the latest

here. >> lk, i think there's some big questions. about how related tiktok. >> should. >> be to this. >> this is an open source model which you should be able to see through. now, i know in the last piece they they talked about a company that's that's tried to sort of identify whether some of these things can get sent. back to china. interestingly, both microsoft, which competes against deep sea through its relationship with openai, is now effectively using or servicing deep sea. you know, microsoft actually hosts deep sea for corporations and individuals on its own servers. similarly, amazon made the same decision to host it. you have apple obviously. hosting the app as well. and so i think there's some very big questions about why you have. american companies. >> big american. >> companies doing that at a time when others are saying that there's something. wrong and something, you know, dangerous inside. >> of. >> all of this. >> the other thing that's worth

just noting is a lot of the folks in ai are less actually worried about information going back. >> to china. >> or even some of the issues around, you know, censorship around tiananmen square or something, and more worried about some of the things you can find. >> through deep sea. so right. >> now on open ai or most of the us ai systems. you can't really ask about some very scary things about, you know, building a bomb or this or that or whatever on deep sea in certain cases, depending on how you ask the. >> question, you. >> can get to places that you might not want the public to be able to get to. now, some will say that's censorship, but in the us, most of the big ai systems actually are restricted. it appears that deep sea is a little less restricted, and that's something that i think is concerning. >> tom. >> yourhoughts on deep sea? >> well, you know, it does seem as if it may be risky to put the deep sea app on your phone. interestingly, an ai app thai use every day, perplexity, which is really terrific, has wrapped

itself around deep sea in a way that it is able to draw from deep sea reasoning and analysis and bring you information through that without you having to actually download deep sea yourself. so there is a way t kedvanta ofhat deea may have developed, without the downsides of actually havg to deal with what it may mean on your pne. >> so obviously, andrew, there are many people with an eye on the ai market, one of them being elon musk, but elon musk is the one who's also ahead of doge, and we a seeing what he is doing right now with the federal government, usaid. he and his aides have had access to some treasury department service reports. this morning, the offi of personnel and management as as well, you know, how are you viewing this, what musk is, how he's trying to reshape and, frankly, slash the federal burearacy? >> well, look. >> i think there's two issues here. >> if the. >> goal is to. effectively put the.

>> spotlight. >> highlight, create some disclosure for the american public to understand betterow the u.s. government is spending money. ihink it's actually hard to argue with that particular point. >> and the. >> truth is to do that. the way to do that, or from an efficiency perspective, would be to go to the payment system, would be to go to the rails, to really be able to see through all of that. the question then is, wel what happens when that information is dclosed both in terms of is h unilaterally quote unquoteeleting or ending payments? if that's the case? i think that's a genuine and legitimate question. we got to ask whether that should be allowe can be allowed, how that's even supposed to work. i think in many cases it is it would be illegal. and i know there's a lot of folks out there that a screaming from the rooftops about tha there's the separate issue, though, which is that when this information gets disclosed about how the government's paying for certain things, whether it's being accurately described to the

public and or whether there's sinformation around it, you. >> know, yesterday. >> theyecame a big debate about, you know, how much mon politico is getting the politico pro service and whether they should cancel those subscriptions or not. well, that's a service that the government uses, as do corporations. and so i think there just has to be a little bit of context. >> around what. >> is going on here. the u.s. >> government. >> by the way, spends money in medi through advertising. they the military advertises. so there are eenditures. and the question is how they're described to th public, because right now there's a lot of information that may not be. accurate either. >> you know. >> tom, you have a piece in newsweek. >> about a. >> federal funding that we've seen for npr and pbs, for things like the debate we've had before in. washington about whether we should support big bird, whether the u.s. government ought to be backing. >> some of those, some of. >> those programs. >> and i. >> wonder. >> what you see. >> ahead on this.

>> this is. >> a debate. >> we've had in washington before. it's a perennial target for some conservatives. npr and pbs have managed to fight. back to some. >> degree to. >> keep their funding. what's going. >> to happen this time? >> how and. >> how. >> much peril is. >> this funding? >> well, you're right, susan, this has been a four decade fight. when i was a young committee counsel on capitol hill in the early 80s, ronald reagan had gone after the corporation for public broadcasting, the funding entity here, and vetoed the funding legislation that congress had passed. and the chairman of the committee that i work for, tim wirth, rallied congress to override the reagan veto. the only override of the entire first term of the reagan administration was on public broadcasting, and we did it off the strength of big bird. we brought big bird to capitol hill, took him office to office, let congressmen, republicans and democrats take pictures with them, send them home to the local newspapers, and we're able to do that. but of course, since

then, the whole media landscape has changed drastically. first with dozens of cable channels, then streaming all kinds of cultural, public affairs, documentary programing that is out there in the private sector. but the real, politically salient issue has always been educational programing for kids, and that still looked like a strong hand. then a few years ago, hbo started funding sesame street and look like private sector could pick that up now. hbo recently dropped funding for sesame street, though netflix has recently picked up miss rachel. and so the whole question now is, even with children's programing looking like it can be supported by the private sector, has the fight finally come to public broadcasting, where republicans will, will, will win, and it'll certainly be a big target of d.o.j. my sense is that there is still bipartisan support here,

that the there are all kinds of rural communities which don't have private money to support their public broadcasting, that there are plenty of homes under for underprivileged kids that don't have access to broadband and can't get it from commercial fundamental ading and terfic arithmetic skills. that is a very cheap way to get education for 50% of the kids in this country, three and four years old, get no preschool education. so it's going to be a tough fight. the fcc chairman looks like he wants to enter the fight, and even though he has nothing to do with funding public broadcasting to get rid of it, president trump hates npr, but there is a plic broadcasting caucus on capitol hill that does have a republican co-chair, so there's maybe a shot to preserve it. i'm rooting for bigird again. >> yeah, i think many of us are. >> certainly watching the. >> story in the days and weeks ahead. editor at large at newsweek, tom rogers. tom, thank

you as always. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, andrew hour, thank you again. coming up next, emergency callers in some part of the country can now connect with dispatchers through text, photos, video, social media and even now have their messages translated. nbc's ali vitali brings us a look at the new tech that's helping save lives. that's next right here on that's next right here on morning joe. when migraine strikes... do you question the tradeoffs of treating? ubrelvy is another option. it works fast, and most have migraine pain relief within two hours. you can treat it anytime, anywhere. tell your doctor all medicines you take. don't take... ...with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. get help right away for allergic reactions like trouble breathing or face, tongue, or throat swelling, which may occur hours to days after use. common side effects include nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief learn how abbvie could helpou save on ubrelvy.

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some st of mor emergcy. his oonents though, acce him of creatingn unsanctioned militihat wod ansr only to him and for his own political purposes. elsewhere, scientists say the planet just had the warmest january ever recorded. the high temperatures helped shri arctisea i to a cord low las month, as the new york times reports, the data came as somhing o surprise to climate rearche who exct contions in e pacic ean th te of yearo actual lower t glo's average temperature at least temporarily. huge story there. impacts of climate change. and now video from frida shows th. >> rcuing unconscious man from an out of control boat. take a look at this. police say the boat was spinning in circles after the person on board suffered a medical episode. aerial footage.

>> which. >> we're watching now, shows jump in and then got thingse it, under control. remarkably, the unresponsive man was treated and trsported to shore. happy to say he is expted to make a full recovery. and speing of emergencies, a little over six months ago, the f made a push to help an analog 911 system enter the modern dital age. but change on a national scale. it's not that simple. nbc's ali vitali joined a call center in franklin county, illinois, to learn about the new technology called next generation 911. >> this is actually for you. >> if you're in trouble, this is who you call. >> all righty. >> stay on the line here. >> let me get an ambulance on the way to you. >> okay. >> but what if you can't. >> so used to? you couldn't write. if you couldn't call 911, you had to either find a way to escape and get help. >> now, new technology called next generation 911 is taking luck out of it. >> we still preach. >> if you. >> can call 911. that's what.

>> we prefer. if you can't, then you can text. >> here in illinois, the tech was a priority for amos abbott, the director of franklin county 911. >> with next gen. >> it brings in. >> video text to 911. >> ai powered translation. >> for different languages. >> that expands emergency access for the 11 million deaf americans to millions more who don't speak fluent english. >> one call is like a one stop shop. >> others need help in domestic violence, home invasion, or active shooter situations where a phone call isn't possible. >> it will come in just like. >> a91 call. >> our phone. >> will ring. >> and then we. >> see up on this. >> screen that it's. >> a911 text. this is actually a text right here. so i'm going to click answer. should the caller in this case as doing a test for us have live video. >> and then they're going. >> to click this link to go live. >> with me. we're all like this at all times. 24 724 seven. so the fact that this technology is just catching. >> whatever, you can do that with your family and friends, but there's still people across the nation that can't reach 911

by doing that same. >> exact thing. >> state and local dispatchers are having to make some really tough dollars and cents decisions about what they can do technology wise. it leads to maps like this one, where aut half the country has basic text to 911, and about half don't. >> we have to remember that. 911 is a local. >> entity. >> so it's really up to the. >> agencies hing jurdiction. a national standar experts say $15 billion federal investment could make next gen 911 accessible everywhere. >> the smbling block. >> in. >> all. of this is. >> funding and leadership. >> last summer, the fcc adopted the first rules for a next gen 911 transition, pushing cell phone providers to support the shift over the next few years. >> that fcc. >> ruling is. >> very important. >> because it then. >> requires the. >> carrier to ensure that 911. ip based capabilities are made. available to the. >> 911 centers. >> back in franklin county, they say the people and tech combined

can help save more lives. >> i've received. >> a phone call from. >> someone after the. >> call saying. >> if i wouldn't have been. able to text you, i'm not sure how i would have been able to talk. >> to you. >> i'm not sure how i would have gotten help. 911 texting is huge. >> that was. >> nbc's and way too early as ali vitali with that report. and finally this morning, a new hbo docu series titled an update on our family, takes viewers inside the popular but sometimes problematic family vlogging industry. vlogging. the project focuses on members of the stauffer family, popular content creators in the genre who came under intense scrutiny in 2020 after they announced that they had rehomed their adopted son, whom they had posted about at length on their youtube channel. joining us now, the emmy nominated dector and executive producer of that docu series, rachel mason. rachel, thank you so much. for jning us this morning. let's just start here

with broad strokes. what do you think the appeal is of these types of series that give, you know, amerins a chance to look at their st of everyday peers living their les, but doing so in front of the cameras? >> well. >> i would. >> say that it's actually an extension of an existing model that exists in mainstream television, which is reality tv family shows like the kardashians, the osbornes. these things have gone back even as far as like the 70s and 80s that american family on pbs. >> so there's a. >> natural inclination for people to want to watch the everyday comings and goings and, you know, dramas in a family. you know, rachel. >> this is susan page. >> adults. >> of course, can choose to do whatever they. >> want with their lives, including. >> living. >> at a. >> public way. but i. >> wonder what is the impact on kids. whose parents. >> are setting up these? the vlogging channels?

>> do we know what the. >> impact is? and by the way, if i had. tried this. >> when my. >> kids. >> wereoung. >> they would not have cooperated. >> well. >> i think you're. >> asking the question that a lot of people are asking because it's still a relatively new enterprise, and youtube has only been around for, you know, a lifetime of an adolescent on some level. so there's not that many children of youtube or family chaels that have grown up to speak about it. however, there is one that i'm fascinated by her story. she just wrote a book, ari. frankie. it's a uniquely pretty horrifying scenario that i definitely don't believe i would claim, you know, is the situation for. >> all family channels. >> but i just read her book and she details what it feels like to be under the microscope. so i think the best thing is to listen to people who've experienced it and try to learn from them. >> and rachel. >> just just. >> to. >> follow up, you. >> you know, you mentioned an american family. >> i remember.

>> when that. >> was broadcast and how revolutionary it was. >> and how. >> gripping it was. but of course. >> that. >> was before we had social media. >> and i wonder what the impact of social media is on this whole desire to. kind of delve in this very personal way into. >> family's lives. >> well, i'm glad that. >> you do. >> remember that, because of course, media changing is such a huge part of this story. and one of the key ingredients that makes a uniquely kind of dynamic culture exist in the internet age that we live in, is this ability foreople to respond directly to family channel. and unlike the kardashians or the osbornes, where in many ways they're protected by the infrastructure of a television network, youtubers are not and they don't have, you know, a team of body, of producers, of people weighing in to maybe, you know, help with their decision making. they're just on their own. and then not only that, they have lots and lots of active commenters feeding them

information. so it's a it's a very precarious world. and that series. we explore in the >> an update. >> on our family is available to stream right now on max. director and executive producer rachel mason. rachel, thank you so much. and that does it f us this morning. we'll see you right back here tomorrow at 6 a.m. eastern. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. >> right now on ana cabrera reports government overhaul deadline day for millions of federal workers. >> weighing buyouts from the trump. >> white house. >> what happens next. >> if most say no? >> plus, the impact. >> of those buyouts. >> on the intel community. how decimating the ranks could impact. >> our national security. also ahead. >> growing concerns over elon musk's reach and access. >> to sensitive. >> government data. >> how democrats. >> are attempting to rein in the world's. richest man. and later the israeli prime minister. >> on. >> capitol hill this morning, as washington and the world.