connect with the provider at ro copec. >> thanks for watching the beat. the reidout with joy reid starts now. hi, joy. >> hello, ari. >> thank you very much. have a great evening. and we've got a lot to get to in the next hour of the reidout, including pam bondi, trump's second choice. florida paypal newly sworn in as attorney general by clarence thomas. of course, after vowing with a straight face to end the

weaponization of the doj. then almost immediately doing exactly the opposite by launching a probe of duly sworn prosecutors jack smith, alvin bragg and letitia james for the apparent crime of prosecuting the democracy was that that's hot going to apply. and we're just going to forgive them all. we'll wipe out all the agreements. we'll go around the law, circum little less awe. he's been making a blizzard of moves in these first 18 days of his second administration, meant to inspire fear and outrage, creating problems and then pretending to solve them so that he can look like a savior, keeping his promises to his base. and while it's all really bad and destructive, i think it's important to sort out the actual fires from the smoke and mirrors because, let's face it, we can't react to everything effectively all at the same

time. but that's what autocrats and coup leaders want, right? while we're running from fire to fire. trump and elon's little doge gang are dismantling our federal government from within. so just for a moment, let's just take a step back and look at what he's been saying versus what he's been doing. trump announced 25% tariffs on mexico and canada, which sent the markets into a tizzy, all for him to pull a reverse at the last minute, claiming he got major concessions when in reality, mexico and canada basically reiterated the same border security measures they had already agreed to under joe biden. trump backed down and got nothing. the administration is also blitzing the airwaves and social media with terrifying pictures of what they claim is the largest deportation operation in american history. but as politico reports, the number of daily ice arrests trumpeted each day on twitter are still about where they were

at times under president barack obama. many of those detained have no violent criminal history, and the white house said wednesday that more than 400 migrants have been released for lack of detention capacity, among other reasons. so catch and release. yeah. ugly, expensive and yes, performative arrests that absolutely make communities feel terrified. but for almost no new result. then there's the executive order banning transgender athletes from competing in women's sports. transgender people make up less than 1% of our population, and there are fewer than ten collegiate athletes who identify as transgender in the whole country. that was not me stuttering, i said ten. the federal government bullying ten americans is bizarre and cruel. but as i explained yesterday, the federal government does not mandate who can play in school sports. if local school boards decide to mimic that ugly eo, it is awful, yes, but local voters will be able to hold them

accountable. as for america taking over gaza to turn it into the riviera of the middle east, the administration has already walked that one back. especially his shambolic talk about sending in u.s. troops. he posted on his social media today that no troops will be needed, since israel will just hand over gaza to the us once the war is over. okay, so israel will somehow physically expel 2 million palestinians, which, by the way, is definitional, ethnic cleansing and then hand over gaza to us to colonize with no military protection. yeah, yeah, that should go over great. speaking of countries that trump is threatening to go to war with, after the state department claimed that us government vessels can now transit the panama canal for free, which would save the government millions of dollars a year, the president of panama came out and said, nope, no you can't. and this morning, trump called for cbs to lose its fcc license and for its new show, 60 minutes, to be immediately terminated after the network caved and released the full, unedited interview with former vice president

kamala harris from october, which shows surprise, surprise, nothing, nothing, nothing abnormal. this is the part where i tell you that cbs, as a network does not have an fcc license. local stations do. so why all the smoke? forgetting what they've said. we know that what the trump musk gang have actually done is that elon's doge gang have gained access to files at the treasury department, the office of personnel management, small business administration, the national oceanic and atmospheric administration, the department of education, centers for medicare and medicaid services, and veterans affairs. they've requested access to the department of labor, which houses confidential information, including for whistleblowers, economic data and other personal information. but after a group of unions sued, they've been blocked by a judge until tomorrow. now, naturally, this has triggered panic within the federal workforce and across the country because unvetted and

unqualified musk sycophants are rummaging through highly sensitive data. newly minted treasury secretary and multi-millionaire scott bessent dismissed all of this as nothing but squawking. >> when you hear this. >> squawking. >> then some. status quo interest is being is not happy. what i will tell you that at at the treasury, our payment system is not being touched in terms of payments being stopped. that is happening upstream at the department level. >> yeah, but here's the thing. musk has claimed the exact opposite on twitter. when he said his team was canceling canceling payments to lutheran organizations. and wired reports that a 25 year old engineer, marko elez, was among the doge, staffers given access to the code at the treasury department that controls social security payments, tax returns and more, according to wired. those

privileges could give someone the power to log into servers through secure shell access, navigate the entire file system, change user permissions, and delete or modify critical files. early this morning, that federal judge got the treasury department to limit doj's access to your sensitive data to just two doge people who supposedly would have only read only access. according to the language agreed to by the two sides, one of the two is musk ally tom krause, the chief executive officer at cloud software group. the other is marco ellis. treasury department officials were asked by the judge if those musk allies had distributed the fiscal data to anybody else, and they said, as far as we are aware, no, they have not. outside the treasury department, as far as we are aware. well, that's not exactly comforting. but wait, there's more. the wall street journal is reporting tonight that marco ellis has resigned from his position at doge because the journal found that he had links

to deleted twitter media accounts, where he attacked the notion of indian nationals in the tech world and declared that he was racist before it was cool. ellis did not respond to the journal's request for comment. joining me now is msnbc political analyst and former congressman david jolly and judd legum, author of popular information judge. judge, i want to start with you, because this sort of to our knowledge, these young doge kids have not shared anything that doesn't make me feel good about what's been going on at treasury. what does your reporting say about what they've actually done with their access to those files? while we've been out here chasing all of the rabbits that donald trump has been emptying into the garden. >> well, i think unfortunately, we don't know. >> a lot. about what. >> has been done. >> because i know through. >> some of the reporting i've been doing. >> at the office of personnel management, which keeps all the files for all millions. >> of federal. workers.

>> employment files, job applications. >> social security numbers. >> et cetera. >> you know, they've been given administrative. access to these files. at the same time, the career staff have been locked out of. >> these databases. >> so you have. both really expansive. access on the one hand. but then the. folks that might be able to. >> say and. >> tell what is going on. are not able to do so. and so. >> there's all sorts of, of speculation, but i think we've already. seen the. >> doge group start to use this. >> data, and i'm sure we'll. >> continue to use. >> this. data for a lot of. different purposes. >> including the decimation of the federal workforce. you know, first, we have this. >> supposedly voluntary resignation. >> but i think after that there's at. >> least indications. >> that it may be used to implement reductions in force. >> right. i mean, and this is the problem, david, is that, you know, it is. i liken it to

throwing a smoke bomb in the lobby of the bank, and then everyone's running from the smoke while the robbers are in the vault cleaning out the bank. right. cleaning out the cache. the data is so valuable. right. the data on. imagine having the data of 320 million americans. and your primary business is i. that data is extremely valuable and will give you a tremendous a competitive advantage unlike anything else. even if they're not doing something even crazier, like, you know, making hit lists or making not hit lists, i should say, lists of people that they want to get rid of in the federal government based on some ideological or ethnic or some other factor. all those sorts of listings could also be dangerous to federal workers and make their lives miserable. but just the idea that people are just accessing it all. i want to give you another one of the people that wired in there, great reporting has uncovered, has had at least some access to our data inside treasury. it's a guy named evan stein. he's 19 years old, 19 years old. he's a high school graduate. he works at doge. he has access to us government systems. his professional and

online history call into question whether he would even pass a background check, typically required to obtain security clearances. security experts tell wired he runs something called tesla dot sexy, which operates a russian website. he worked at a startup that hired convicted hackers. someone using his telegram handle solicited a cyber attack and on his linkedin. and i apologize to the saints out there. and we know a lot of the saints listen to the show. he called himself big b a l l s i won't say the whole word, so i won't be vulgar. that's what he calls himself. so big. b a l l s has all of our social security data and maybe downloaded it, maybe didn't share it, maybe did. your thoughts? >> joy. >> i think it's pretty clear that the us. government has been raided. by the world's richest man. >> under the. >> permission of a. billionaire felon president. >> who thinks that governing. >> is a reality. >> show and. >> that creates a. >> constitutional crisis. and i. >> think there are so many.

fires to put out. you're exactly right in. >> discussing this, that. >> sometimes you. have to. >> choose which one is the. real kind. of existential question. >> and so. >> it. is not. >> necessarily the wrong. >> on. >> policy. the attack. on usaid. >> or the attack on. >> the civil service corps. >> those those. >> are very. >> important and worth fighting for. but i. >> think the fundamental issue here is the. >> lawlessness of. >> donald trump and elon musk and their dojos, and. >> whether or not there was a security breach. >> we know. >> there were violations of law. there were violations. >> of the impoundment act, violation. >> of civil service. >> protections, violation. >> of the constitution. it is the question of lawlessness. that is creating. the constitutional. >> crisis. >> not. >> necessarily the policy behind it. the policy. >> has to be fought as well. >> but part of. >> the. >> the existential. >> question, the. >> constitutional crisis. >> is because of donald trump and elon. >> musk. >> but it also. >> is equally. >> because of. >> the. >> collapse of the republican congress. if democrats controlled the congress right now, elon musk would be at a congressional hearing tomorrow. the doj's would be sitting. at

hearing tables. everyone would be getting a fair hearing about what the hell is going on. >> right now. >> in the government. but we see the malfeasance by trump. >> and. >> and, and musk. but it's kind of a passive malfeasance by the congress that has. >> to be recognized. >> the republican congress has collapsed. it has collapsed. it no longer honors its constitutional responsibility. and in that vacuum. we get the violations of law and constitution that we're seeing. >> yeah. i mean, all i've seen is republicans going on cnn and elsewhere, you know, justifying this. the speaker of the house said this is no big deal. he's literally said, my powers don't need them. elon musk, he will police himself. let's get to like the bottom line of what they want here, because it does seem that, you know, the occam's razor is it's always about profit and profit for the very richest. here's scott bessent again. this is him talking about the most important thing. and i think this is what was driving the last election. here it is. >> president trump has a mandate. he came.

>> in to do. >> big things. and one of the big things that this administration wants to do is make the 2017 tax cuts and jobs act permanent. i think that we've had an economy that's been supported by the government. we are going to slowly the talk that back to the private sector, we're going to bring down the government spending. >> what i hear in all of that, judd, is privatization. there, you know, the house minority leader, hakeem jeffries, put up an alarm about medicare, and he didn't say the word privatization. but that's something people should think about. social security, you've got the washington post reporting that the that the they would like to try to use ai inside of our government to try to decide what to cut. and then elon musk, who does run something called spacex, has said his cost cutters are going to now target the us aviation system. a coalition of afl-cio are preemptively suing to block this. but i am concerned about the idea that suddenly our air

space, our air system, to keep the planes from crashing would be run like tesla with the same safety standards as tesla's automatic driven cars. that scares me. but is it just to your reporting, is this a big heist to get mass privatization and then back it up with that tax cut? >> yeah, i think you bring. >> up an. >> important point here, because we're told. >> that this is about deficit reduction. now, all of the. >> civilian workforce of the federal government makes up about 4%. >> of the total budget of the united states. so even if you. >> were. >> to. >> get. rid of. >> every single person, which. >> is. >> not going to happen. >> i. >> think about 2% of. folks have. agreed to voluntarily. >> resign. >> according to the latest data. >> but even. >> if. >> you get 100%, you would have still only eliminated. 4% of the budget. now there's three times that. >> we spend. >> three times that amount on federal contractors, but we haven't heard anything about scrutinizing, analyzing federal contractors, which are actually

subject to much less oversight and therefore. much more prone to waste. fraud and abuse. but there's been. >> no discussion. >> no scrutiny. so i think. that begins to reveal what this is really about. which is not deficit. >> reduction, but the hollowing out of. >> the federal government. such that the government is no longer able to regulate private business. obviously, we know that elon. >> musk has bristled. >> through for. >> from all sorts of agencies. >> from the epa to the. sec and on and on and also to have the private sector then step in and fill those gaps that will inevitably be created. we already saw that, you know, with the. >> faa and others. >> so i do. think that that is a big. >> part of. >> what we've seen over the last few weeks. >> occam's razor, david jolly

and judd legum, thank you both very much. coming up, pam bondi just got sworn in as attorney general of the united states. and we'll talk about what that might mean, because she's already following through on trump's threats of retribution. and we've got a vote on russ vote that just took place in the united states senate. we'll tell united states senate. we'll tell you about that on i was scared when i was told age related macular degeneration could jeopardize my vision. it was hard, but taking preservision was easy. preservision has the exact clinically proven areds 2 formula recommended by the nei. i'm taking control like millions of others. a sleep number® smart bed is perfect for couples the climate360® smart bed is the only bed that cools and warms on each side and all our smart beds adjust the firmness for each of you and now, save 50% on the new sleep number® limited edition smart bed. shop a sleep number® store near you. for more than a decade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again. ♪far-xi-ga♪ ♪far-xi-ga♪

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because. >> they. >> are a political opponent. the partizanship the weaponization will be gone. america will have one tier of justice for all. there will never be an enemies list within the department of justice. i believe that the justice department must be independent and must act independently. >> that was donald trump's newly sworn in attorney general, pam bondi, during her confirmation hearing, assuring americans that the doj under her watch would be nonpartisan and not the place to pursue her boss's grievances. of course, that has already proven to not be the case, with one of her first acts being the creation of a weaponization working group that will focus on investigating the federal and state officials who brought legal cases against trump. but it's not just people like former special counsel jack smith who are being targeted by this doj. it's affecting the thousands of fbi agents who had contact with any of the cases involving january 6th insurrectionists,

with one agent releasing this message that says in part, quote, i am the coach of your child's soccer team. i sit next to you on occasion in religious devotion. i'm a member of the pta. this is who you see and know. this is the quiet side of me that you do not know. i orchestrated a clandestine operation to secure the release of an allied soldier held captive by the taliban. i prevented an isis terrorist from boarding a commercial aircraft. i spent three months listening to phone intercepts in real time to gather evidence needed to dismantle a violent drug gang. something else about me. i was assigned to investigate a potential crime. like all previous cases i have investigated, this one met every legal standard of predication and procedure without bias. i upheld my oath to this country and the constitution and collected the facts. i collected the facts in a manner that neither prove innocence or guilt, but to arrive at resolution. joining me now is attorney timothy heaphy, former

lead investigator for the january 6th select committee. he's the author of harbingers what january 6th and charlottesville reveal about rising threats to american democracy. tim, i feel like one of the things that has been revealed is that people who did their job and served their country in every way, whether they were police officers or fbi agents in a nonpartizan way, just to protect the country, are now being turned, being hunted not just by donald trump in his mind on his social media, but now by the department of justice. that seems incredibly insane to me. but i want to get your response to that letter and to what this fbi agent must be feeling. >> yeah. joy targeted and fired, right. there have been a group. >> of. >> career prosecutors, men and women, who did. >> their. >> job, who, as the fbi agents message just indicated, simply followed the facts in the evidence and put what was. >> the rule.

>> of law. first and. >> foremost. >> they've been fired because of that, which is outrageous. >> the department of justice and the fbi are full of dedicated men and women who do their job, who follow the facts and the law. i think everything attorney general bondi said in that hearing and said in that memo about the fact that the department should be apolitical is exactly right. i read her memo and said, i agree with that absolutely, 100%. and that's been true for democratic and republican attorneys general throughout our history. but the memo goes on to say that we are going to look specifically at prosecutors and agents who are involved in alleged weaponization. that's where i get off the train, joy, where that becomes, in fact, political. you can't say on one hand the department is apolitical and that shouldn't interfere with any decisions. and then in the same memo, go on to say, well, we're going to look very hard at these specific individuals and these investigations that were weaponized. that is, in effect,

a political move. so it's internally inconsistent. the first part makes sense. the second part does not. >> and speaking of political, i mean, normally presidents don't go to the swearing in, the swearing in of their appointees. but here's donald trump at bondi's. >> yeah. look, every single person appointed by this president knows that their primary audience is right there in the oval office. and she is following through with these memos on a promise that he made during the campaign. so not terribly surprising to see this happen in the oval office. but, joy, the important thing to keep in mind here is that it takes facts and evidence to actually do more than investigate, but have real legal consequences for these people. so there may be investigations of weaponization. it may be that the special counsel and the new york da and the new york attorney general have to provide information and answer questions. but unless and until there's information that they did anything for an improper motive, there's no

there there. these in new york city. joy, as you know, a jury found president trump guilty of those offenses. and a judge found on the civil side with attorney general james that he violated the law in that matter. so there have been independent findings by judges and juries that justify the charging decisions by those officials. so the evidence of some sort of nefarious intent or politicization just isn't there and will not be there no matter how many investigations we launch. >> but we know that that's not the point, right? the point is that donald trump is angry. he wants to rewrite history. he wants to make it look like he was a victim, that when he was accused of crimes or convicted of crimes or civilly found liable, that it was all just one big conspiracy against him. and he's going to and it's clear pam bondi is willing to do it. but it's not even just that she could find predication to prosecute jack smith or letitia james is that these people are now going to have to spend a lot of money, right? they're going to have to spend a lot of money on civil servant salaries to try to defend themselves. and also,

there is no reason they should be confident that their names won't be leaked, that their names won't wind up on x twitter, that they won't be persecuted and hunted the way people like officer michael fanone and his mom have been, where they've also had. we just saw harry dunn, officer dunn get, you know, confronted by a january 6th insurrectionist in a public place like these people also face threats of harm and persecution. >> yeah, absolutely. that's been the subject of some litigation about the fbi agents. this list of those involved in the january 6th, matters that has been compiled, they're very nervous that those names and their involvement will be leaked and subject them to danger. but the bigger point. joy, you put your. you're putting your finger on is the opportunity cost of this. if you assign prosecutors to investigate the special counsel or investigate the new york da, then they are not investigating national security offenses, transnational drug trafficking, child exploitation, all of the things that the department of justice is uniquely qualified to

do. a choice to do x is a choice not to do y. similarly with the fbi, if you are going to pull agents to pursue certain priorities, you are by implication not pursuing other priorities. and we need to realize that there's a huge dearth of attention to very serious, pressing criminal justice problems that will not get the attention they deserve. because of this retribution. >> and i suspect that donald trump really doesn't care about those other things. he just wants his own ego to be coddled. and it looks like pam bondi is willing to do it. tim heaphy, thank you so much. much appreciated. up next, pam bondi chairs. pam bondi is isn't only going after government officials, she's actually get this instructed the department of justice to criminally investigate private companies over dei. is this even legal? what happened to free speech and free rein capitalism? and, you know, first amendment? we'll be know, first amendment? we'll be let's get started. bill, where's your mask? i really tried sleeping with it, everybody. but i'm done struggling.

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a vote to install the co-creator of project 2025 as the director of the office of management and budget. basically, the main policy shop of the federal government. russell vote is expected to be confirmed despite an all night speaking protest by senate democrats. and in fact, he was just confirmed. i can report to you now. meanwhile, trump's newly sworn in attorney general is moving at full speed, full speed to both carry out trump's retribution and also readjust to the doj's ideological focus to one that

will better mirror what we saw in project 2025. it now includes, quote, more virtuous priorities like, you know, seeking more death penalties by ending the moratorium on federal executions and targeting sanctuary cities by threatening to pull doj grants. memos outlining pam bondi's first day priorities also include what i'm sure will be widely popular directives, like enforcing a strict return to office policy and straight up racist attacks on the first amendment, like this one, which instructs the trump doj to criminally investigate companies that have die policies. yes, you heard that right. the same first amendment that the right expanded and celebrated when it comes to the when it comes to money, right? money in their campaigns is now under attack when it comes to who private companies would like to hire. i'm joined now by ali velshi, host of velshi on msnbc. ali, that's very interesting because the last i checked, even the republican national committee

has they have in their in their, in their sort of charter that they want to make sure that there are equal numbers of women and men on their various committees so that they maybe pam bondi should start with them. but what do you make of this? i mean, the idea that private companies could be criminally investigated. for what? hiring too many black people, women and gay people and disabled people. >> and largely. >> it's companies or in the federal government. some of these people. who are being targeted right now. are anybody who's got a description. >> that discusses. >> what they're doing. but private companies in america, some very good companies. >> have. realized for some. time we have a low unemployment rate. >> hard to get workers. >> you need to attract. >> people, which. >> means your workforce needs to look. >> like those people. so a lot of companies have been doing this for a long. >> time, and they will. >> continue to do it for a long time. the idea is die became unfashionable and there were these movements, right wing movements. that targeted companies that engaged in it. that was bad enough. what are

you criminally investigating them for? what? like what? i don't even understand. what? >> that. >> what that means, what it would be. and i will tell you, joy, there's a point at which there are some people. >> who who. >> feel like. >> you know the eyes and what they were, they were looking for, and i get that. but at some. >> point. this pushback is a little bit weird. russell, vote. you and i both spent. >> a lot of time. >> we heard. >> our. >> arms and. >> our backs. >> carrying that project 2025 around. this is. >> the guy. >> who. >> said it. he thinks. >> america should prioritize christian. >> immigration because. he's got a bit of a christian. >> nationalist background. >> he has. >> he has talked. >> in fact, today the president just. signed an executive order to eliminate. anti-christian bias, which i'm. >> all over. by the way. we should we should. >> eliminate any. anti any religious. bias in this government. but it's an obsession. >> it's not just. >> the dei. >> it's all the other stuff. >> we're going to do to basically prove. >> to people that this, this. >> thing that has existed in america. >> for a long time. >> and i say this as an economics journalist, joy, the economic patriarchy will.

>> be sustained. >> this is a weird reaction. >> and ultimately, joy. >> it will be met by. >> by some sort of leveling out. >> because people. >> won't put up with this nonsense. >> because employers actually have to employ people. they need people. >> to work and stay competitive. this isn't going to work. >> by the way. and i'll note that some of the people who have caved because it does produce fear. google has said they're scrapping their diversity hiring. they've also used removed their pledge to not use ai for surveillance, which is really kind of scary. or for weapons. yeah, but you said russell vought has some christian nationalist tendencies. let's just hear russell just say he's a christian nationalist. >> my viewpoint is mostly that i would probably be christian nation ism. >> that's pretty close to christian nationalism. >> because i. also believe. >> in nationalism. >> i also just want to go through some of the other things. >> never grows old. >> by the table, never grows old. the other piece of this is that the vibe that's been created under the new trump administration includes the following things that have happened. federal health care workers have been terrified because a d a website published a list of quote unquote targets, a list of mostly black employees who work at agencies primarily

within the department of health and human services, which people have said they called a watch list. it was created by something called the american accountability foundation. they got $100,000 grant from the heritage foundation. before you've got the gentleman who's going to basically be our spokesman in some sense for our policy in the state department, mr. beatty, darren beatty saying competent white, having previously posted on social media that competent white men must be in charge and telling various black people, including the south carolina senator tim scott, that they must take the knee to maga west point, disbanding all of their cadet cultural clubs, but letting those of polish and french extraction remain. so we're creating kind of a almost a sort of a white nationalist context for the trump administration. right. but here's my problem. just for you as an economics guy, the american public is only 30% white male. that's right. don't you want to sell things to the other 70%, which includes a lot of women? and that. >> doesn't make sense. and the

economic the strength of this country is that ultimately people will tire of this nonsense. >> you can be. >> vengeful. >> you can be mad, you can do whatever you want to do. but we. >> actually have to produce things. we have to sell things to the rest of the world. we have to employ. >> people to make those things. so i agree with you, but you identified something. >> russell. vote going back to. >> to his position in government. the priorities of a government are outlined by their budget. right. >> the constitution doesn't say anything about how you make policy. it says that. >> congress must appropriate funds. >> and so this is super influential. >> a guy. with his views controlling. >> at least how the white house sees. >> the purse strings working. that doesn't. >> always work the way it's supposed to. >> but that's really. >> really important. >> the priorities of this government are not. just random executive orders. >> it's actually. about doing damage. >> to our economy. and. >> russell vote's going to be at the center. >> of it. >> right. because if everyone doesn't want to participate in christian nationalist world, how does your country actually prosper? if people say, yeah, i don't want any part of white nationalism or christian nationalism, you're kind of out

of gas, my friend. thank you very much. up next. cheers. i spoke with one of the equal employment opportunity commission, newly fired former employees, and we'll give you employees, and we'll give you that interview (♪♪) (♪♪) voltaren... for long lasting arthritis pain relief. (♪♪) for more than a decade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again. ♪far-xi-ga♪ ♪far-xi-ga♪ ask your doctor about farxiga. >> and engrave that. >> we print your brand on everything. >> so. >> customers can notice. >> you, remember. >> you, and fall in. >> you, and fall in. >> love with ok guys, instead of getting weathertech, i saved a few bucks and got some cheap, foreign made floor mats.

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commission, which essentially sues on your behalf if you are discriminated against at work. and this is not like some new woke dei thing. this is an independent federal agency that was established by congress after the passage of the civil rights act of 1964, with the purpose of protecting workers against discrimination based on their race, sex, age, disability, pregnancy or sexual orientation. investigating complaints based on hiring, firing, promotions, harassment, or wages. in 2023, the commission received over 80,000 new discrimination discrimination charges and secured more than $665 million for victims of discrimination. but a lot of what they do is public education, working with employers and employees to make sure people know their rights. and last week, trump fired two of the three democratic commissioners, charlotte burrows and jocelyn samuels, years before the end of their terms, and tapped the commissioner he appointed in 2020 to serve as

eeoc acting chair. andrea lucas, who says her priorities would include rooting out unlawful dei motivated race and sex discrimination, protecting american workers from anti-american national origin discrimination, defending the biological and binary reality of sex and related rights, including women's rights to single sex spaces at work. i spoke to the now former eeoc commissioner jocelyn samuels, and asked her what she thinks about those new trumpian priorities. >> as you mentioned, i am a former eeoc commissioner because i was removed by email at close to midnight on monday, january 27th with no prior notice. and i think in violation of the law that, as you said, created the eeoc as an independent agency that is bipartisan by design, right? >> there have to be an equal number of democratic and republican. >> than three of five

commissioners can be members of the president's party. got it. so the goal of title vii of the civil rights act of 1964, and the way the commission was structured, was to create a multi-member bipartisan agency to work together toward consensus to protect the rights of american workers. >> to. >> be free from discrimination by firing me and my democratic colleagues. charlotte burrows, before the expiration of our term, the president has accelerated his ability to control a majority of the commission, a majority that he would not have been able to secure until the middle of 2026, and can use that majority to advance his, i think, radical agenda to eliminate dei program, to protect americans against national origin discrimination. >> what does that even.

>> mean to effectively erase. trans people from existence? >> i mean, the thing about it is, you know, we've been through we've seen this movie before, when one clarence thomas was added to the eeoc, and a lot of people believe in order to disrupt it or break it or destroy it, to reverse the idea that discrimination is real. and so that if an african-american is denied opportunity based on race, that's not the real discrimination. the real discrimination is if a white person doesn't get a job they want. we've had friends of the show come on and talk about being asked when they were applying for jobs in the 1960s and 70s, hey, how many kids do you plan to have? are you married? are you dating? that's the kind of thing, right? that would that would trigger lawsuits. this feels like they want to reverse it and say that women supporting discrimination or people of color supporting discrimination is, quote, die and maybe stephen miller ize it and reverse it and say the real discrimination is when white men don't get what they want. does that sound like it to you? >> i, i agree with you. i think that opponents of daca

initiatives deliberately conflate it with some of the proactive mechanisms that congress anticipated employers would undertake to identify barriers for underrepresented groups that prevented them from claiming equality of employment opportunity. it does not mean engaging in quota based decision making. instead, it means looking at levels of representation in your workforce. and if you see that particular groups of people are underrepresented, if 80% of your middle managers are women, but only 20% of your senior managers are, you look at that and say, there's something wrong here, right? because absent barriers to equal employment opportunity, the representation of people should look essentially like their availability in the relevant labor pool. and what daca is all about is encouraging

employers to take those kinds of proactive, intentional steps to identify barriers and to address them before they result in discrimination. and i worry that with his attacks on daca, the president and what i anticipate will be the new republican majority on the eeoc will instead work to dismantle the kinds of initiatives that have been in place for decades to ensure that people who have been subjected to systemic inequities, people of color and women and people of non-american national origin, that instead of recognizing that they continue to face systematic barriers in far too many workplaces, we will be seeing suits brought on behalf of white men who claim that they have been harmed by

these initiatives, which are designed to make the workplace inclusive and fair. >> i want to just just for the audience, just to let folks know. in 2023, 143 lawsuits were filed by the eeoc, received 81,055 new discrimination charges secured, and, as i said, $655,000. there seems to be a real obsession inside this dei sort of tic that is used for everything from airline crashes to anything. is all dei about trans people? yes. and in the guise of protecting women who apparently should not be protected from discrimination because they're women. except when it comes to who's in the bathroom. do you just what do you make of that? >> you know, i one of the shocking things that the president did on day one of this administration, the afternoon of inauguration day, was to issue an executive order called defending women against extreme gender ideology, which

essentially erases the existence of trans people. you know, the williams institute at ucla school of law estimated that there are 1.6 million trans people. this executive order would say they do not exist. sex is purely binary, and it is a biological and immutable fact, and anybody who asserts otherwise is operating under false delusions. this is both, i think, deeply damaging for a vulnerable, very vulnerable group of people. but it is also contrary to the law where the supreme court has made clear that people are protected from discrimination based on their gender identity, and nothing that the president does can change that authoritative pronouncement from the supreme court and enable people to assert their rights to be free

from discrimination in the workplace. >> nothing in the workplace says that you have to like the choices of people and like the, you know, sort of the who a person is. but if they're qualified for a job, if they are have done the job well, you can't discriminate against them. that's just reality. >> you know, one of the things that the eeoc did during the biden administration was to issue a very comprehensive guidance to inform workers about their rights and employers about their responsibilities to prevent harassment in the workplace. and that seems to have a real target of the president and of the current acting chair of the commission, andrea lucas. >> jocelyn samuels, thank you very much. and what a world that we live in. and lastly, do you plan to fight this, by the way, do you plan to legally. >> fight it? i have engaged lawyers and i am looking at my options. >> thank you to jocelyn samuels. and coming up, a much needed moment of joy involving something very, very adorable.

but before we break some exciting news, we are nominated for not one, but two naacp image awards for our interview with brittney griner. you can vote for us at vote dot, naacp image awards dot net. scroll on down and vote for us. we'll be right back. >> we will. >> evil and doug. >> you'll be back. emus can't help people. >> customize and save hundreds on. car insurance with liberty mutual. >> you're just a flightless bird. >> no, he's a dreamer, frank. >> and doug. >> well. i'll be. that bird really did it. really did it. >> only pay for what you a sleep number® smart bed is perfect for couples the climate360® smart bed is the only bed that cools and warms on each side and all our smart beds adjust the firmness for each of you and now, save 50% on the new sleep number®

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>> i'm going to be here. five days. a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up half. >> the night reading. >> executive orders. >> for. >> this defining time. >> in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. celebrating 50 years of music live featuring arcade fire. 52. backstreet boys, bad bunny, bonnie raitt, brandi carlile, chris martin, dave grohl, david byrne, devo, eddie vedder, jack white, jelly roll. lady gaga, miley cyrus, mumford and sons. post malone. the roots. only on peacock. >> okay, fan. because we know the soul needs it. here is

today's moment of joy. the oregon zoo in portland has welcomed its newest addition, a baby elephant. asian elephant rose to gave birth on saturday after 20 months of pregnancy. ouch. this adorable calf appeared to come out at 200 pounds, but zoo staff are giving mama and baby time to bond before conducting a first checkup to confirm the weight and sex. according to the zoo, the baby was standing on its own within 15 minutes and took the first steps soon after that. we are rooting for you cute little baby elephant! you're so adorable. look at you just being a baby elephant. adorable. you know you needed that. and that is tonight's moment of joy. and also the reidout. you can follow me on blue sky and instagram, at joy-ann reid, on tiktok at joy reid official, and follow our show accounts on instagram and facebook at the reidout, tiktok at reidout and on blue sky at msnbc. com. i know it's a very complicated. just take a screenshot of it and you can do it all in with chris hayes starts now.