>> physicians mutual, physicians mutual. >> good to be with you. >> i'm katy tur. as the gop. >> congress takes. >> a step back. >> the courts. >> are taking a step forward. >> at least nine. >> federal judges have. >> issued rulings stopping donald trump and. >> elon musk. >> from trying to gut. >> the federal government. >> and concentrate. >> even more. power with the

president and the president alone. >> the latest. >> is a ruling out of rhode island, again ordering the white house to unfreeze federal spending, which the judge says. trump's team had. >> not initially. >> complied with. for now, the rulings are only temporary. >> all of these. >> rulings. >> these cases will inevitably find their way to the supreme court, where the nine justices on that court will have to decide what exactly a president can do and not do. >> the question. >> then. is what happens. >> after that? >> if the court rules. >> against donald trump. or elon musk. >> do they abide. >> by it? musk. >> trump and vp jd vance, who, by the way, has a law degree from yale, are already signaling that the judiciary's constitutional authority. >> is limited. limited. >> reacting to one of the rulings pausing their agenda. musk called the judge corrupt. essentially, trump said, no judge should be allowed to make that kind of decision. >> and jd vance.

>> again. >> a man who. >> has a law degree, argued judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power. together, it can appear like the men are setting the stage for what constitutional experts are warning is a true crisis, one where one branch decides it doesn't have to listen to the other two. bye bye. separation of powers. bye bye, democracy as we know it. so is that what's really happening? can we say that yet? >> joining us. >> now. >> national columnist. >> for the washington. >> post, philip bump, new york times reporter and now an msnbc contributor, teddy schleifer and msnbc. legal correspondent lisa rubin. everybody welcome. >> i want. >> to. >> talk to you, phil, first about this idea that that we are in a real crisis at this moment. it's hard to tell. and i say this because we've been talking about a constitutional crisis regarding. >> donald. >> trump for many years now. and when you talk about it so. >> much. >> the words don't mean as much

as they used to. they lose their significance. they lose their weight. >> yeah. that's true. i mean, i guess it depends to some extent on on how worried you are about the crisis. i mean, i think it's absolutely the case. we are in novel territory. >> here. >> in which we have the president of the united states, who very. willfully is setting. >> aside the boundaries. >> that exist in our constitutional system. he already has displaced the legislative branch. he understands that republicans in congress are going to do. >> whatever he wants them to do. >> they have the majority in the. >> house and. >> the senate. >> he is not concerned about being impeached. >> all of those things are set to the side. and now he has turned his attention to what's happening in the courts. now, i think it is the case that donald trump has certain things that he cares about a lot, and certain things. >> he doesn't really care about very much. right? he cares a lot about upending the deep state and. >> firing a bunch of people at the justice department who. >> he doesn't like. >> i don't think he really cares that much about a lot of the cost cutting that elon musk is. >> doing, which, of course, is. >> really about attacking.

>> government more broadly. >> but i think that there will come a time and it may be on one of these cases in which donald trump simply says, you know what? i'm not going to i'm not going to give up on this fight. i'm not going to simply say, okay, fine, courts, you win. i'm just going to ignore what the courts are doing. and there is no obvious answer that we can offer in response to that. >> yeah. on that note, lisa, i mean, we've already gotten kind of a glimpse of it. this federal. >> judge, which i. >> started with at the. >> top, saying. >> you got. to unfreeze this federal spending. >> this is the second time. >> he's issued that ruling, which means that the first ruling where he said unfreeze the spending didn't go through, it wasn't listened to entirely. >> the department of justice had an objection to that, katie. they said it wasn't that we weren't listening to you, but we were taking you by your plain terms. when you said that the omb freeze was unlawful, we didn't think that necessarily you were enjoining other agencies or that you necessarily meant to unfreeze funding beyond those in those second seven executive orders. and now the judge is saying, no, unambiguously, what i am telling you is you may not freeze federal funding regardless of what the source of that authority is. if you think you've got some independent

authority, separate and apart from the executive orders and the omb memo that you originally issued, come back to me. tell me what specific authority allows you to do that, and we'll have that discussion. but until and unless then you are bound by this. >> the reason. >> the judge. >> is saying this is that federal. >> spending that's. >> the authority of congress. >> article one of congress delegates, that congress, article one of the constitution delegates that congress has the power of the purse. they're the ones that decide what gets spent and where the president signs off on that budget. this is this new president coming in and saying, i don't like where this spending is. i'm just going to stop it. and this is a. judge saying, hey, hey, wait a minute. there is a separation of powers. >> correct? and the judge is also saying, look, you may have said to me in defense of your actions, no, no, no, we weren't doing this pursuant to that omb freeze memo. we're just simply trying to root out fraud. and the judge in today's order saying that's insufficient, regardless of the reason for your doing this, my injunction applies to all federal funding,

regardless of what your rationale is right now. until i can rule on a more lasting preliminary injunction request. >> the thing. >> that is raising everyone's. >> concern. >> and this is why i brought this up first is, and i think it's a reasonable question to ask, which is what might the president and the vice president and elon musk do if they're ruled against, how might they react? and we ask this because not only their words, the way that they've described judges who have ruled against them as corrupt, but also because there's a history of kind of flouting this stuff. >> teddy, talk. >> to me about elon musk and the way that elon musk operates. >> sure. i mean, elon. >> musk actually last. >> week. >> met with jd vance. >> and a. >> number of. >> elon's kind of doge aides. >> you know, some. >> of these people who have. >> become kind. >> of washington. >> or media celebrities as there's more and more reporting about them. you know, elon musk is somebody who generally, you know, in silicon valley, is able to kind of do whatever he wants, right? especially a. >> company like spacex, which

is. privately held, or neuralink or xai, these. >> companies that. >> musk controls. >> you know, the only real. >> guardrails. occasionally there are regulators. >> or occasionally there's lawsuits. you know, i'm thinking about times, though, when musk has been always able to kind of. >> outrun even those. >> attempts to. >> to. >> kind of keep him in bounds. >> and now. >> elon is entering a field which he knows nothing about or doesn't. any experience. like this kind of in the public sector. and you wonder kind of what. >> guardrails exist, right? i mean, yes. there's litigation. >> yes, there's, you know. unions and regulations and the media and there. >> are. >> other types. >> of guardrails. but the question. >> is. >> are we kind of looking at a situation like elon has done in the private sector, where he's always able to kind of keep a. >> step ahead? >> you know, elon always seems to win these litigation. he almost always seems to kind of be able to outsmart a regulator. or is this a time when elon is in an entirely new field? and, you know, if he's if he if doge is ruled against in a lawsuit, theoretically elon has to

comply. but that's why i brought up, you know, the musk between that the meeting of musk and elon musk and vance have with each other. a few days ago, it makes me wonder are what is what vance said publicly, something that elon was saying privately that, you know, let let the judge enforce it himself. so we're obviously in uncharted territory here. we've never seen someone like elon musk be so involved in the public sector. and maybe he's not playing by traditional rules. >> and that story about, you know, let him enforce it may be apocryphal, may have never actually happened. i mean, obviously, we've been in scenarios like this before. we've been in scenarios where people have decided to defy the supreme court before states have decided brown versus board of education as one of the good examples. we've gotten through that and come out on the other side. this time feels different because you have people going through and just smashing away at so many different parts of the federal government. it's not one instance. it's so many different instances. and i'm just when you talk about elon musk and what he is a history of

doing with the companies that he's been at specifically with twitter is the best example. it's just, you know, it's break it all, burn it all down and then rebuild it as i want to rebuild it, rebuild it in order to suit me as as he's done with twitter. >> yeah. and, you know, it's telling that so many of the people who were involved in the twitter takeover in 2022 are playing precisely the same role three years later in the remaking of, of the us government. you know, there's a guy named steve davis who is not someone i expect most viewers to know who is sort of an elon's lieutenant and who has been was very involved in kind of cost cutting initiatives at twitter when it was turned into ex. steve davis is, you know, arguably one of the most powerful people in washington right now because steve davis is leading effectively on a day to day level, the department of government efficiency, you know, his role has never been announced. you know, it's not even totally clear what exactly his remit is or his employment status, but the exact same people who came into twitter and cut headcount by 80% are now kind of doing take two or maybe

take three or take four. doing the elon playbook in an entirely different arena. >> one of the other guardrails areas of pushback would be the american public. if they decide they don't like something, they can be pretty vocal about it. cbs has new numbers out, phil, about how the american public feels with donald trump's presidency so far. and again, we're almost a month in now. approval rating is 53%. but when you break it down about what he's doing within the government, the numbers are pretty high. people are happy. they don't like the federal government. they elected him because they didn't think the federal government was working. they may have had a, you know, kind of a broken idea of the federal government, but that's why they put him in office. so when it, you know, is reported in the news that they're going in there slashing and they're firing, people aren't saying, oh my god, oh, no constitutional crisis. they're saying from these numbers, yeah, keep doing it. >> yeah. i mean, his approval

numbers now are not terribly high historically. right. normally presidents come in and have relatively high approval ratings because they go through their honeymoon period. and then that that tapers off. so it's not as though he's overwhelmingly popular at this point in time. and in fact, that same poll actually asked about musk's efforts and was found about split, mostly because republicans were broadly supportive of what musk was doing. but there was about split on how people viewed musk. and that's all true. but there's a there's an important point here, which is we're just talking about the ways in which what he did to twitter are now being manifest in the american government. but if twitter crashes, that's very different than if social security crashes or if medicare crashes, or if suddenly thousands of people are dying around the world because we have withheld aid that we had been giving to them. right. there are all these ways in which the stakes are exponentially higher than they were for some stupid social media site. right. and so we're talking about three weeks into the trump presidency. if these things manifest, if nih funding, for example, is cut to the extent that that elon musk and

apparently the president want to cut it, they're going to be huge ramifications. we've already seen senator katie britt in alabama saying, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, we can't cut that much funding from the university of alabama. the ways in which you talk about these things are very different than what the actual on the ground effects are, and it's very hard to see how that would be popular if they come to fruition. >> oh, gosh. you know, it is just so much happening all at once, and it's hard to keep track of all of it. i'm going to say thank you to you guys. i appreciate you starting us off. phil bump, teddy schleifer, welcome to the msnbc family. and lisa rubin joining us now, shannon liss-riordan, a partner at lichten and liss-riordan. she's an employment lawyer representing 2000 former twitter employees in individual arbitration, as well as over a dozen class action lawsuits related to the company's treatment of workers after elon musk bought the company. thanks so much for joining us. we're having you on because there is an attempt, there's an attempt to get rid of so many federal workers through a buyout offer. and it mirrors exactly what

happened at twitter with what elon musk offered twitter employees, same email and everything. were the twitter employees actually given the money that was promised? >> and no. >> the reason. >> that we have 2000 individual. arbitrations against twitter is because the. >> employees were. >> promised that if they. >> lost their jobs after musk. >> took. >> over twitter, they. >> would. >> receive a certain. generous amount of severance. and they didn't receive it. none of them received it. so that is why we have all of these cases and these lawsuits and arbitrations. and i heard it just said by your prior guests that that none of these. >> players. >> including trump and musk, ever seem to lose lawsuits. well, i'm not allowed to talk openly about the results of our arbitrations because they're currently under seal and confidential. but i will just say this i'm feeling good about our cases. >> so when you're looking at what happened, that's

interesting. number one, that you're feeling good. it says a lot without saying much when you're looking at what what is being offered of the federal workers, what is your advice to them about whether to take this buyout and the promised eight months of pay? >> so we've been. getting contacted. by federal employees. from across agencies, across the government. across the country, and it. >> has been very difficult. >> to give solid advice because no one knows exactly what's going to happen. trying to take a page from what we learned from the twitter fiasco is the following. i'm giving federal employees the same advice that i gave twitter employees who came to me on november 17th, 2022, when they were faced with the same fork in the road email. and i told people, you got to make your own individual decision about what you think is best for you and your family. >> there are. >> lots of concerns about whether what is being promised

to the employees is legal, and whether it is even enforceable, and it is just hard to say. it's hard to answer those questions right now, but individually i will say the following for federal employees who want to get out of there, or who are thinking about retiring for their individual purposes, it might not be a bad thing to take this and see where the cards fall, and if they don't end up getting what they were promised. it is tricky to sue the federal government, but i have some confidence in the rule of law, and i can't imagine that these very explicit promises made to people could not be enforced. now, there are a number of employees who are basically being threatened with being terminated. and for those employees, i know there's a lot of concern. unions are telling employees, don't take this buyout. a lot of federal employees who've been in touch with us have said, i'm not going to give in to this, and i completely respect that and understand that. but for employees who are under threat

of being fired, they may have a legal claim later or they may not, and taking the chance that you could get eight months severance might not be a bad idea. there were some. twitter employees, in fact. yeah. >> i'm sorry. finish your thought, then i'll ask you the question. >> sure. >> yeah. no, i'm just going to say there are some twitter. there are a lot of twitter employees who rejected the fork in the road and committed to staying with twitter 2.0, as elon put it, being hardcore working agreed to work long hours at high intensity and only to get fired a week later on the eve of thanksgiving, without any severance at all. so, you know, there were a lot of federal employees who are facing the same threat. so, i mean, the advice that i'm giving to individual employees is different, of course, from what i feel for our country right now. this is such a helter skelter way to cut the workforce, even if that is the policy goal. you know, we're going to lose people with incredible expertise and experience. and i don't know how

these agencies are all going to be able to function. if so many of those employees with experience like that do end up leaving. but i but i have advice that i'm giving to individual employees who are contacting us, and i've got my big picture concerns about the legality of what is happening here. >> let me ask you this, though, in terms of that eight month promise of pay, congress is about to go into another spending battle, and there's no guarantee that if they're in a spending battle, that there's going to be allocation to pay off federal workers who are no longer working. i imagine that would be if you're trying to cut costs, an easy area to slash. so if you're banking on eight months pay, but we're coming up to a budget battle in just a few weeks time, that's that's a month of pay, maybe two months of pay before. suddenly you're gone. >> it's by by no means is it assured that these employees are going to get what they're being promised. i'm just saying that if they don't get what's

promised, i expect there will be a legal claim that that could be brought. i can't guarantee what the result is going to be because, like i said, it is tricky to sue the federal government. federal spending has not been authorized past march 15th. if the federal debt limit does not get raised again. and i read an editorial just this morning that maybe, maybe trump isn't even going to support the raising of the debt limit, which has always happened when we've run up against a debt limit. maybe. maybe he wants to see what it looks like if the federal government really just shuts down for a lengthy period. there are so many unknowns. i'm just saying that employees right now need to make, you know, individually, they need to make their own decision about what's best for them. but but again, i am really concerned about what our country is facing, the loss of expertise and experience we may be about to face, and just the situation we have where the federal workforce is just being slashed, you know, like twitter

with with so little thought about what it actually takes to keep things running and, you know, decisions being made by people who who have no idea what the how these agencies operate, who is actually needed, what's important to keep things going. it's extremely concerning. yeah. they appear. >> to be working. >> at twitter. >> yeah. and twitter with lots of functions were lost and then had to be rebuilt. but again, the federal government's not twitter and they appear to be making the bet that that the federal government doesn't need a lot to function and that they can cut out cut out most of it. we'll see if that's the case. shannon liss-riordan. >> and twitter is just a shell of what it was. >> so yeah. >> that's true. we're all thinking about the federal government. thank you. thank you. >> and thank you so much for joining us. we do appreciate it. and still ahead, what democrats are threatening to do if trump continues to target federal agencies and programs, plus the winners and losers of the latest

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14th to avoid a government shutdown, which, according to one senator, gives democrats some very specific leverage. >> they have for the last two years, needed democratic. votes for every single continuing resolution. and they should not count on that this time around. i cannot support efforts that will continue this lawlessness that we're seeing when. >> it comes. >> to this administration's actions, and for us to be able to support. government funding in that way, only for them to turn it around. to dismantle the government, that is not something that should be allowed. >> so just. >> to be clear. >> senator. you are open to voting. >> yes, to shut. >> down the government to make this point. >> this is on them. this is about whether or not they can get the votes. they are the majority. >> joining us now, former biden white house press secretary, former state department spokesperson and host of inside with jen psaki right here on msnbc, jen psaki. jen, good to. >> have you. good to see you. >> good to see. >> you too. let's talk. >> about what senator andy kim is proposing here. i mean, the republicans are in charge of congress. the republicans have

the votes. if they if they want to, to get this stuff done. but, you know, it's a it's a very slim majority. if you were advising any of the democrats, either in the house or the senate on on this spending bill, what would your advice be? >> i would say use. >> the heck out of your leverage, which i think is what he's saying. i mean, as you know, katie, there's not an up or down vote. are you for shutting down the government or not shutting down the government? it's if this both sides don't agree on a funding agreement and i don't you know, i don't think it's wise for democrats to say, let's shut the government down. that's not what he was saying at all. he's saying use the leverage that republicans have such a slim majority, as you said, they need to use every element of leverage they can in the minority. and this is an important thing, i think, for people to understand who are frustrated with the democrats, i think sometimes justifiably, that they want to see them doing more. when you're in the minority, you have to be very creative. and this is one of the ways to use leverage. how how. >> far do you push it? because

the republicans under donald trump have shown they've got one mission and one mission only, and that is to please donald trump. so if donald trump draws a line in the sand, you can you can argue right now at least that republicans are not going to cross that. and if democrats aren't going to cross it, you could be in for a stalemate. and a lot of federal employees, the ones who haven't taken the buyout, are suddenly not getting a paycheck. >> yeah. look, i'm not suggesting run through the tape to shut the government down. what i'm suggesting is make it a painful process and use every element of leverage that they can use to get to that point. it's a hard message to sell. to your point, katie, to say we are defending federal workers, which the democrats definitely are, in contrast with what trump and musk and are doing right now and nobody seems to be objecting to in their own party to also say, but let's shut the government down and prevent people from getting paychecks. but this is one of the points of negotiation, where it always happens that both sides are pushing for what they need and

what they want. i don't think that speaker mike johnson or other members of the republican leadership want to shut the government down. now, if trump tells them to, maybe they will. who knows? we're in a crazy world, but i think this is a point of leverage that they should use, and it isn't always one that the minority always uses. the republicans do, but the democrats don't always, because they're usually better, better actors than that. >> i'm curious about the larger democratic role here and strategy going forward. it has only been a few weeks since donald trump was was inaugurated. i think it's a lot to ask for a coherent plan of action from all the democrats and a fierce leader to stand up against donald trump. obviously, it's different from what we saw in 2017. the election was different, and also the approval numbers for donald trump this early on are much different. cbs has a poll out today that shows he has a 53% overall approval rating. that's fine. it's, you know, historically fine. but when you look into the specific numbers about his campaign

promises and whether he's doing them, 70% say, yeah, this is what he promised to do in the campaign, and that's what he's doing it. 69% describe him as tough, 63% energetic, 60% focused, 58% effective. i mean, if you're donald trump and you're reading these numbers, you're going to be pretty happy with your first few weeks in office. >> maybe. but it's so it's one so early and two a number of the steps that he and his co-president are taking are detrimental to people's programs. they rely on that actually. they may not identify them with the federal government. but if you're living even in a red state and your preschool is being shut down, you don't have access to the medicaid funding you normally would. your farming subsidies, which is something we've seen reported on today, are no longer what they were. you're going to be mad at the federal government and the people in charge. trump and the republicans control congress. they control the white house. so we're just starting to see some of these impacts across the country. we saw the courts

acknowledged today that actually all of the funding hasn't been reissued or isn't flowing as it should. and i will be very interested to see katie in a couple of months. if they proceed with this, we're going to destroy the government from within. and government doesn't have a role in anybody's lives. what the impact of that is on communities. >> let me ask you about strategy, broader democratic strategy. there's there are a lot of different analyzes on on why the democrats lost one of them that i thought was pretty spot on from my conversations with folks out there, was that they were seen as defending the status quo. do you think that they are one? do you think that that's true? and then number two, if it is true, are they falling into that same trap of defending the status quo, which americans have said pretty clearly with the vote for donald trump, they don't like by going out and saying, we got to make sure that usaid is protected no matter what. we got to make sure that donald trump cannot get into the federal government and change anything. make sure we're going to protect all federal workers falling into the trap of

defending every institution, even though americans aren't so happy with the institutions. >> look, i think this this is a really hard thing for democrats because there hasn't been a party that has and a leader that has wanted to dismantle institutions in the same way as trump. right? so if you're the opposition, you are a defender of things that do good things for people's lives, things that keep the rule of law happening in our country, things that keep democracy functioning. and by that, for that reason, you are a defender of the status quo. i % think, that people should hopefully take away is it's how you talk about it, that it's not the only lesson, but i think it's one of them. if democrats keep going out there and saying, we're in a constitutional crisis, which i think we are, but it's how do you talk about it? if they keep saying authoritarianism, we're it's coming at our country. it is right. a democracy is under fire. what does that have to do with people's lives? how does it impact people sitting at home just trying to get through the day, just trying to pay their

bills. and i think that connection, sometimes it becomes a little academic and it needs to be a little bit more real. talk about how people converse about these issues, and that's one of the ways you stop defending just the institutions you're defending, what the institutions do for people's lives. and that's a transition that needs to be made. i think. >> academic, abstract, all those things. jen psaki, thanks so much for joining us. thanks, katie. and you're on, because we want to mention something really cool that you're doing. you've got a brand new podcast talking about this. very thing. >> this exact thing we all spend so much time. katie, as we should, talking about trump and what trump is doing and how it impacts people. this podcast is focused on what the democrats are doing. i talked to governor wes moore, i talked to jack schlossberg, and the first two episodes are out today. >> jack schlossberg you know, i was trying to get him on my show for rfk jr, but i had no success. maybe he'll come on soon. >> maybe we'll see. >> thank you. so much, i appreciate it. you just saw the blueprint with jen psaki and the first two episodes are already available. you can get it right now. coming up next, still more

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today. >> very simply, it's if they charge us, we charge them, that's all. >> when does it go into effect? >> almost immediately. but if they are charging us 130% and we're charging them nothing, it's not going to stay that way. everybody still. >> including canada. >> and mexico. >> any steel coming into the united states is going to have a 25% tariff. >> what about aluminum? >> aluminum to. >> joining us now nbc news senior business correspondent christine romans. all right tariffs steel. it's coming. >> yeah steel and aluminum i mean these are things you use to make cars parts of airplanes toasters lots of stuff. the

consumer airplane. >> tickets will go up. >> we'll see. i mean a lot of these are allies too. by the way, we're talking about canada, mexico, brazil, south korea. and those are we're hoping to hear later today. and then these reciprocal tariffs on everything else that could be thousands of different categories. so it could get sticky. some of these some of these imbalances between the tariff levels in countries we've actually negotiated those in different trade deals and through, you know, trade agreements. so the idea here would be that a good example is eu cars. that's my favorite example because the eu. the eu has very different tariffs than the us on cars. and that is something that has bothered donald trump for years. for decades actually, it has really irked him that american cars sold in europe would cost so much more than european cars sold in the united states. >> why was there an imbalance? what was the why was that policy in place? >> different industries that are trying to protect their domestic, you know, their domestic auto workers, you know, the us has always been the leader of lowering barriers,

thinking that that builds, you know, economies for everybody. everybody gets a little bit richer. well yeah, that happened. except it also gutted some american factories. and that is that is the base of this sort of unease about american trade policy, globalization over the past 40 years or so. the concern, though, is in the very near term, donald trump trying to literally control alt delete the global trading system that will raise costs for american consumers, the people who elected him because they were sick and tired of higher everyday costs. when you start roiling international supply chains and putting taxes at borders, that raises prices. >> there was. >> a one of the pull down tabs on the cbs news poll talked about trump's focus on lowering prices. 66% of people say he's not focused enough. one of the things that people are feeling the pain with is eggs. >> yeah. >> that's not a tariff thing. what's going on with eggs? >> so that's still the bird flu. and that is something that's going to be a problem for the rest of the year. you know, when i talk to experts, when we look at usda, they don't think that those prices come down until

sometime in 2026. oh my gosh. so yeah, because you have to you have to first of all defeat the virus. and then you have to build up the global supply of these birds to lay the eggs. so it is a real a real problem. and i don't see anything. you know, the trump administration, the trump donald trump said he was going to cut prices immediately. he was going to cut utility prices in half. you know, he was going to fix these grocery prices. none of that is happening here at this moment. this is all focused on on tariffs and trade policy that could that could raise prices for consumers. >> all right. christine romans, thank you very much. still ahead, quote a real estate development for the future, but not for gazans. what donald trump just said about their right to return, plus, the next federal agency on trump's hit list. what unprecedented steps the white house is taking inside the cdc. this also touches on the cdc. this also touches on bird flu. don't go anywhere. want a next level clean? swish with the whoa of listerine. it kills 99.9% of bad breath germs

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and they're sensations too. get started today at sitter city. >> as a part of its proposal to, quote, own the gaza strip. president trump now says palestinians would not not have the right of return to the territory. take a listen. >> we'll build beautiful communities for the 1.9 million people. i would own this. think of it as a real estate development for the future. it would be a beautiful piece of land. would the palestinians no big money spent? no, they wouldn't, because they're going to have much better housing.

much better. in other words, i'm talking about building a permanent place for them, because if they have to return now, it will be years before you could have. it's not habitable. >> joining us. >> now, independent journalist noga tarnopolsky. i mean, this is like a gift for benjamin netanyahu, for the president of the united states to say, we're going to move all of the gazans out and never let them come back. it's exactly a gift to him. and the right wing government. >> it is. >> a. >> gift, but it may prove to be. >> a double. >> edged sword because it's an. >> impossible gift. >> and it's interesting. i have to make. one comment. this is probably. >> the seventh. >> time i've heard that statement. >> from donald. >> trump, and for. >> some reason, in. >> all of. >> the reports, i. hear it. >> being referred to as. >> if he says that the united states will take. >> ownership over gaza. >> but he says very. >> clearly. >> i would own it. >> think of it. >> as a real estate deal. >> you have the. >> impression that president. >> trump.

>> in his. >> former role. as a real. >> estate developer, thinks he's going to get gaza as a gift somehow from the israelis whenever. >> they're done making war there. >> and he will. >> develop it personally. >> that's what. i'm hearing. >> i don't think it's a it's a. >> possibility in the real world. >> and i do think netanyahu returned from washington last night very, very, i would say almost. radiant after. >> his visit. >> to washington. but he is offering his extremist coalition members an impossible dream. and i'm not sure how trump will be able to slither away from this deal if he has to. but netanyahu may not be able to keep his government together if he has to take back a promise that gazans will leave gaza. >> there is a lot of turmoil within israel right now about the state of the hostages that

were released over the weekend, what they described having gone through and just the physical state of them, not to mention what one hostage had to say in front of the palestinians, the lie that he had to tell about how he was excited to come home and see his family when his whole family was killed at one of the one of the kibbutzim. >> yeah. >> my understanding is that i'm not sure that was a lie. i don't think he knew that his wife and two daughters had been murdered when he made that statement. these are three men who were kept underground for 16 months. they had no notion of day or night. they were not among the israelis who were able to hear, you know, israeli radio broadcasts or something while in gaza. so not only the i'm skipping the name right now, not only the guy who you just mentioned, whose first name is eli, but also another one of the men who returned the 34 year

old. he he also did not know that his wife had been murdered until he returned to israel. so yes, it's been very traumatic. although, to be honest, i have to say i'm reporting from two states of israel right now. in one state, you have the family members crying out, begging, begging to get their loved ones out of gaza. the news that has come through from the three men who were released, about some of the other living hostages and their conditions, including shrapnels. in the eyes of one, they are being kept in chains for months on end. all of this has hit the israeli public very hard at the moment. as i speak to you, there are vast protests on the streets. tel aviv is again completely blocked. and yet prime minister netanyahu himself returned from washington, gave a speech today in the israeli parliament, in the knesset, didn't even mention the hostages. they do not seem to be a priority for him or for

his government, many of which ministers are just saying they're not going to vote for phase two of this deal. so we are very much talking about two israel's right now. >> there's also no word on when the next round of hostages will be returned, because hamas has said israel has violated the terms of the cease fire. can you help us understand what's going on? >> yeah, there are a few things going on. hamas is accusing israel of violating humanitarian, humanitarian clauses in this deal. but what really appears to be happening is that part of the stipulations of phase one, which we're in now, we're in day 22 of phase one. one of the stipulations is that on day 16, both sides have to enter negotiations to establish a framework for phase two. phase two is a very difficult phase for the netanyahu government. it involves getting all of the hostages back, living and dead.

it involves declaring a formal end to the war, and it involves withdrawing all of israeli forces from gaza. it's entirely unclear that netanyahu can do it. and so what he's been trying to do is to kick the can down the road. as a result, we are in day 22 with no negotiations. hamas called this out as a violation of the deal. and right now, i think the qatar principally is trying to figure out how to unknot this latest, you know, crisis. >> how to untangle the latest knot. that that makes a lot of sense. it also must be a lot of a lot of emotional, even more emotional turmoil for the families of those who are still being held. especially knowing what their loved ones specifically are going through. i know it's been a very difficult thing to bear witness to in israel. noga tarnopolsky,

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voltaren... for long lasting arthritis pain relief. (♪♪) okay. >> morning. >> i only. >> left sling. >> deliver the news. >> i need to. >> stay informed. >> thank you very much. nice one. >> nope. >> sling gives us all the. news we want in a quick and reliable manner. >> and at a wonderful price. >> this critical. >> time calls. >> for the. critical news coverage. >> that sling provides. >> okay. >> see you tomorrow. >> the most important. >> news at the best price. sling lets you do that. >> the trump administration is taking aim at the cdc. officials are looking to control the agency's research publication. it's called the morbidity and mortality weekly report. it's considered the cdc's voice. well, the administration blocked its release for two weeks, and

its new edition is missing key information on the spread of bird flu. joining us now, former obama white house policy director at msnbc, medical contributor doctor kavita patel. why is it significant to block or to change the release, or to edit the morbidity and mortality weekly report? >> yeah, katie. >> this is one of the few. >> publications that. >> even when we have. >> a government shutdown. >> it still. >> keeps going. so it kind of constitutes what we would call essential services. and that's education of our entire not just. >> the. >> country. >> but the world. >> really looks to the. >> cdc's morbidity and mortality weekly report to come weekly. >> and to give people the most up to date information. and as. >> you mentioned, with. >> this hiatus. >> it took it also. >> has. >> still not published. >> three publications around bird flu. >> that we're. >> expecting and could. >> potentially be somewhat. >> game changing in understanding how. >> this. >> virus is evolving. >> why is it important to talk about bird flu? >> yeah. so bird flu. >> so a. >> couple. >> of things. the three. >> studies we know are.

>> really highlighting. >> a two significant developments. >> number one. >> that we see a. >> strain that had only. really been. >> in birds now appearing in dairy cattle. >> number two. >> some kind of. also a different strain that has not been seen before and is considered somewhat. >> more rare. >> it's not clear if that means something significant. >> no cases. >> of human to. human transmission. >> so let me. >> be clear. >> it's still. very low. >> risk for humans. but we're watching this. >> bird flu. unfold literally. >> before our eyes. >> but katie, without. >> this information. >> being disseminated, think about it. >> you could be a local county. >> health official. >> and not really be looking. >> for something because you don't. >> know this. >> information is out there. >> so this is. >> pretty critical all around. >> you can't be aware of something if you don't know about it. doctor kavita patel, thank you so much for coming on. appreciate it. all right. around the world, people are reacting to donald trump and his first few weeks in office. here's one reaction from an australian senator and member of the australian greens party. his name is nick mckim, and he

issued something of a warning. let's listen. >> the united. >> states is sliding. >> into fascism under. >> donald trump, and it is marginalized communities who. >> are going to pay the price. >> black skinned and brown skinned. >> people, migrants. >> in the us, women. >> in the us, transgender and queer folks in the us. >> they are going. >> to be persecuted. >> and they're going to be demonized, blamed for all the. problems of. >> the day. >> and you know what else is going to pay the price? nature is going to. pay the price. >> under his drill baby drill. policies of. >> destroying nature, climate. >> is going to pay the. >> price. >> as we've. >> already seen. >> a withdrawal. >> from global climate action. president trump. >> is a disaster. >> for humanity. he belongs. >> behind bars. >> not in the oval office. >> that is going to do it for me today. deadline. white house starts after this quick break.

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