>> msnbc presents a new original podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she and her guests explore how the democratic party is facing this political moment and where it's headed next. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. president trump's first 100 days watch. >> i'm going. >> to be here five. >> days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up half. >> the night. >> reading executive orders. >> for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> let's be with you. i'm katy tur. >> take these. >> four things together and ask yourself what you get. ordering prosecutors to drop corruption. charges against a big city mayor. pardoning an infamous. >> governor for. >> governor who was convicted of

corruption. >> pausing the enforcement. >> of a law banning foreign. >> bribery, i.e, corruption and gutting the office that focuses on protecting government whistleblowers that might report corruption. >> the answer. >> corruption at. >> worst. >> or at best, an appearance that corruption is somehow okay now. so is it. joining us now, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, reporter for the city, a nonprofit and independent news site katie honan. nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, and former senior member of robert mueller's special counsel investigation, andrew weissmann. andrew is also an msnbc legal analyst. all right. ken, i'm going to begin with you, because this all has to do with the justice department and what they're choosing to do or not do. the biggest headline of today is this decision to push for the dropping of federal charges against new york city's mayor, eric adams, for corruption. >> yeah, katie. and make no mistake, this is an enormous

story. it might just look like a routine government decision. oh, they're ordering the dropping of the case. that's not what this was. this was political leadership at the justice department weighing in and ordering career line prosecutors in new york to dismiss a case that they had lawfully brought based on the facts and the law in a speaking indictment that laid out a mountain of evidence that eric adams exchanged bribes for favors. obviously, he maintains his innocence, and the justifications they cited were even more alarming to a lot of people. i'm talking to inside and outside the justice department because they said very clearly this was not about the facts and the law. it was not about the strength of the case. it was about a perception that they had that the case was somehow politicized or weaponized to use their term, and that the former u.s. attorney, who was a biden appointee, used the case to aggrandize his public image. they were also concerned that the trial would happen during new york's primary season. well, of course, the case was brought nine months ago. and they were they actually flatly said that

they were concerned that eric adams had lost his security clearance while he's under this criminal cloud, and that made it harder for him to cooperate with immigration enforcement in new york city. they did explicitly say, though, there's no quid pro quo, he's not agreeing to help them on immigration enforcement in exchange for this decision. and then the last thing that's just amazing is that they're going to dismiss it without prejudice, meaning the charges can be brought back at any time, which many observers have noted today appears to give the trump administration enormous leverage over the mayor of america's largest city at a time when they would like him to do some things on immigration and other issues. katie. >> yeah. and you know what's interesting, lisa, is that the charges haven't been officially dropped. the doj is ordering the office, the s.d.n.y. to drop these charges. but so far, they still stand. >> so far, we've seen no entry on the docket. katie. that would indicate that the office is dropping it. and the other thing that they've done here that i find sort of strange is that the memo through which they have

ordered s.d.n.y to drop these charges was made public. usually those are conversations that take place privately between main justice and components of the department. here they wanted everyone to know exactly what it was that they had ordered and why they ordered it. they wanted that predicate for the weaponization of federal government to be sort of embedded in people's consciousness about why they were purportedly ordering danielle sassoon, who's the acting u.s. attorney, to drop the case. but they underestimate the southern district to some extent, or i hope that they are underestimating danielle sassoon. this is an office that has rigorous protocols, as all d.o.j. offices do in terms of their charging decisions. papering. why it is that a case is going to be charged, what the evidence is, and all of that exists here. it's not like some people stood in a back room, drummed their fingers together and said, let's charge eric adams because he doesn't like president biden's immigration policies. that's not how it works. and i would expect danielle sassoon to have the

backs of her line, prosecutors and those supervisors in the same way that trump nominated trump, acting u.s. attorney jeff berman did during the first trump administration. >> maybe she's going to say, fire me. i'm not going to do this. have somebody else carry it out. katie. again, this is layered. it's not just the trump administration saying, we feel like this guy has been unfairly targeted. we want to we want to we want to criticize the biden team. this is the way we're going to do it. they're not dismissing the charges and saying we're never going to file them again. they put in a memo that, yes, these charges haven't been looked into fully, but we think that they're distracting mayor adams from helping us with immigration enforcement. that feels like a sword of damocles that is hanging over his neck. >> exactly. and like you said, they didn't say. >> the charges are. >> incorrect or false. they're just saying they're impeding with the mayor acting to order out president trump's mass deportation. rules and what he wants to do. mass deportation in the nation's largest city, a sanctuary. city that the mayor has taken care of. 180,000

migrants over the last. >> two and a half. >> years. >> which he's been very critical of. and he says that is why. he has. >> been charged. >> because he was critical. >> of biden's administration. >> and what the city had to do. what you also see is. >> what. >> he will. >> actually have. >> to continue to do while he is still mayor. he has a primary. >> in june. >> and a general election in november. and as the memo states, if he does. >> not, you know, it's likely looking. >> at if he does not win his election as soon as he's no longer mayor of new york city, trump and his team can say, we actually don't need you anymore. >> so what's the expectation among city hall reporters about how mayor adams is going to start acting now that this this is potentially about to get dropped? well, we actually had a. >> preview of it yesterday. hours before this memo dropped, i reported that the mayor gathered his top commissioners, the police commissioner, the head of health and hospitals executive, the schools chancellor, and said, you don't like donald trump, don't say anything about it. do not criticize the federal government. do not criticize this administration. we have billions of dollars in federal grants, and i will take care of it. and a lot of people were

really disturbed by this meeting because there was a lot of confusion over what to do if ice comes to city buildings. no one knew what to do. there was differing messages being sent to city employees, and of course, this was met with a lot of criticism and really anger yesterday. this was, of course, before the memo dropped because people are thinking he is just rolling over and telling trump, do whatever you want in new york city, i don't care. reverend sharpton said today that this is very disturbing. and he said, quote, that he believes the mayor is like the hostage of president trump. so i think we'll see more of that. >> so, i mean, i know my kids go to public school here in the city, and there was a memo that went out just laying out the policies the school has. if ice shows up in front of the school, do those policies still stand? i mean, can we stand? can we can we ask the question of whether mayor adams is going to enforce that at schools or at other sensitive places? i know the trump team said those places are fine, that we're going to go to those places, but the cities can stand in the way of that. so what's the expectation of what mayor adams will be doing? >> schools actually have a slightly more extreme protection

from ice, given that there's children inside. but i think the concern was what we saw under the previous mayor, under the first trump term, was a mayor who was really strongly against president trump and his policies. we don't have that this time. so people are very fearful that if ice shows up, not just at the school, but, you know, they're afraid of when i'm taking my kid to school, if i'm on the bus or the subway, will ice bombard me there? there is a concern about attendance numbers in january post inauguration, if there was an actual a dip. the schools chancellor initially said that one of the factors was fear from immigrant students. the mayor's office was very mad that she said that and then she walked it back. so i think that's people are afraid of it seems like a lack of independence. >> all right, andrew, let's let's go to the bigger picture here. i laid out all of the other things that are going on. you have mayor adams and then the case probably getting dropped, or at least doj wanting it to be dropped. in exchange, it appears for immigration enforcement, you have the pardoning the full pardon now of the governor of illinois, former governor of illinois blagojevich. you also have the, you know, don't enforce foreign bribery act. you had the gutting

of fera or the non-enforcement of fera, the leniency on it, which is the foreign registration act. take all these things together and then tell me what the justice department is going to be interested in doing. >> so that i think that is exactly. >> the right. >> way to look at this, which. >> is you have to look at. >> this together. >> and not individually. and as a friend of mine said, who. >> is a white. >> collar defense lawyer, this is a great time to be. a sort. >> of. >> corporate criminal because pam bondi, the. >> new attorney. >> general, announced in her first day. >> in a. >> series of memos the gutting of various laws and protections. they dismantled the national security division's corporate task force. i used to oversee the foreign corrupt protection protection act. that was that was in there to stop bribery. every single country in the

world prohibits bribery. and we have been in prosecuting the fcpa violations. now, it is the law of the jungle where every corporation is now free to. according to pam bondi, bribe companies and bribe public officials in order to gain business. who does that? i mean, this is supposed to be a rule of law. country republican and democratic administrations have been fighting that. it is now a great time to be a foreign adversary because, as you pointed out, the foreign agents registration act. the kleptocracy initiative, all of that has been disbanded. so if you want to engage in foreign interference with our elections, you're free to do that. the it is really sort of a remarkable, remarkable set of changes. and it's useful too, i think, to think about this not in terms of all of the lawsuits we've seen, which is attacking actions by the trump administration, which are alleged to be illegal. these

are actions that are just policy differences, but are sort of horrendous if you believe in the rule of law, and it's really making the american country sort of unsafe, because it's like saying corrupt american actors get to go forward in terms of white collar crime, and political adversaries get to engage in corruption here. and it looks like pam bondi, attorney general, is going to look the other way. >> yeah, there's also the farah stuff. i mean, we just saw senator menendez get put in prison, sentenced to prison for taking money from the government of egypt. i mean, that was a big deal to democrat falling afoul of that law. what does it say about what our lawmakers are going to be allowed to do now? by by, you know, not investigating fara violations as the doj is saying it's and tell me if i'm getting it wrong. the doj is basically saying we're not going to investigate as heavily fara as we did in the

past. >> yeah. what the what pam bondi said in her memo is that if you are a foreigner, whether it's a foreign country or a foreign person, and you are spending millions of dollars to lobby here and to influence american policy, we are not going to investigate that criminally. and so the hammer that sort of helps prevent our foreign adversaries from doing that surreptitiously is gone. so that means that russia, to take an example, china, other adversaries who spend millions and millions of dollars to lobby congressional leaders to influence our policies, do not have to disclose that they're doing that. and pam bondi herself was a registrant and had to disclose under the fera statute. what i do find interesting, katie, is

senator grassley, you know, a very sort of well known republican leader, is a big proponent of the statute. he for years, to his credit, had been chastising the department of justice, saying there needs to be more criminal enforcement of the statute because he saw the problem and he said, you're not sufficiently deterring what i am seeing going on. and the department in the last, basically, since the mueller investigation has done a lot with respect to enforcement of the fara statute. and pam bondi on day one said no more criminal prosecutions under fara. >> there's that. there's also, ken, let's talk about whistleblowers. the whistleblower protections are being paused right now or gutted and give me the actual reporting on that. and then there's the igs that all got dismissed. it feels like anybody who might want to raise their hand and say, this isn't okay, this is corruption, is not getting that message is not welcome. it

appears within the trump administration. >> yeah, i think you're talking about the office of special counsel, which is the entity that looks after whistleblowers inside the federal government. not to be confused with special counsel jack smith. that kind of special counsel. the trump administration fired the head of that office, and he's now litigating to try to get his job back. but yeah, you're absolutely right. the firing of the ig, that was a one day story almost. we've all we've almost moved past it. my particular fascination and thing that we should not forget is the firing of prosecutors who worked for jack smith sending and what most people think was an illegal firing because they're civil servants. they have their they have a right to due process. and they were not given that they were escorted out essentially. so that sent the message on day one that we are going to get rid of prosecutors. and later we learned fbi agents who worked on cases that we don't like, regardless of whether we have cause to fire them. that is a chilling message. that is not how the united states has run, particularly since watergate.

and now with the eric adams decision, the justice department is sending the message that the post-watergate norms that separate politics from decisions about criminal investigations, those are essentially out the window. and, you know, look, donald trump and many people around him promised that that was coming. but it's another thing to see it actually happening in the first month of the administration in such a dramatic fashion. katie. >> all right. ken dilanian, andrew weissmann, lisa rubin, katie honan, welcome to the program. thank you guys for starting us off again. taken all together, it does send a pretty clear message. still ahead, they could be the next casualty of donald trump's proposed trade war. what farmers say another round of tariffs would do to their ability to operate. and president trump fires back at hamas after they announced a delay in the next hostage release. what he is threatening to do if all israeli hostages are not returned by saturday. plus, an american teacher who was held in a russian prison for more than three years is on his way home. what we know about the

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this would be a great bill for farmers. and in terms of retaliation, if they retaliate, it's as i said, it's reciprocal. so if they raise it a little bit, then we raise it automatically. so i don't think it helps for them to retaliate. but also remember this they can't really retaliate because we're the piggy bank. we're the piggy bank. but if we don't do this, we won't be the piggy bank for long. we won't be much of a country. >> president trump is telling farmers not to worry about tariffs, arguing it's ultimately going to help them. last time trump did this though, tariffs last administration that helped did not come. and that. and he ended up having to give farmers a $28 billion bailout. but in this second term it is not only the tariffs that american agriculture is worried about. it's an executive order he signed on day one. joining us now, national farmers union president rob larue. rob, good to have you. tell me a little bit about this executive order. what is what it is about it that

is concerning american farmers? >> yeah. >> well, i'm really. >> glad that you raised. >> this topic because the general topic. >> is a lot of uncertainty in farm. >> country. >> and that. >> is the fact that we do have the threat. >> of tariffs that we. have right now. >> a federal. >> freeze on government. >> spending and programs that tie up a lot of programs that. farmers have have. joined and have already invested. >> in. >> and we're hoping for government investment back. >> on top of that, we. >> also have the move to close usaid. and that means more uncertainty for farmers because of the importance of. food aid to farmers markets out there. >> so really, the. >> general theme across the board right now is a great deal of uncertainty. and it comes at a time when farmers economically are really stressed. >> a $2.1 billion goes to u.s. farmers with u.s. aid as well. so that freeze affected the farmers. when we're talking about the program or the

specifics of what's been impacted, not to mention all the freeze for the money that came out of the inflation and reduction inflation reduction act from the biden team. what sort of things are we talking about? what are farmers not getting? >> well. >> first of all. >> there were contracts. >> signed with the federal government for farmers. to invest in more sustainable practices. often it's cost prohibitive to invest in equipment and infrastructure on their farms to make sure that we're prepared for sustainability into the future. >> as as. >> these contracts. >> are now in place and farmers. often have made really significant financial commitments, right now, we have a freeze and a lot of uncertainty about whether or not the government will uphold their end of the bargain and whether or not farmers will be reimbursed for some of that investment. >> so, like farmers who've installed solar panels on their the roofs of their buildings, or farmers who have tried to make way for sturdier crops, the

things that that what are the things that that they invest in, that they're waiting to get paid back on? >> it's everything from making sure that whether it's seed for native grasses, for more sustainable kind of cover crops, it is renewable energy projects such as solar panels or more energy efficient infrastructure on their farms. it can also include farmers who are part of a community that is. investing in rural water infrastructure and wastewater for their small, rural communities. we are hearing stories where those investments are also tied up right now, and unfortunately for a lot of these small and medium sized farmers, that investment on top of financial strain right now really puts in question whether or not they're going to be able to continue to produce food. >> what do you believe that the trump administration needs to do to take out that uncertainty for these farmers, this american agriculture, so that, for instance, these these farms don't go under. and also so we

can keep down prices at the grocery store. >> that's right. at its heart. farmers. as farmers, we are growing food because we want to feed people. so we want to make sure that we can be producing food to sell into the marketplace, and then also make sure that we are protecting the most vulnerable in our communities, both domestically and abroad. so we would love to see the administration be a lot clearer and a lot more thoughtful and measured in their approach. so as we talk about things like potential fraud and abuse in programs that provide us, us food aid, i've seen those programs and i see a lot of value in them. so explain the case, slow things down. but simply closing offices, turning off funding while farmers are trying to make those investments, this is going to have a huge impact in rural america. >> don't just shut everything off. take a look at what you're doing before you make the move. maybe do a review, but before you make any big moves, just

really consider who's going to be affected. rob larue that's what i'm hearing from you. rob, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you katie. >> coming up, russia just released detained teacher mark fogel after jailing him for more than three years. what we've learned about the negotiations that led to his freedom. first, though, what president trump is threatening if the next israeli hostage release doesn't happen. by the way, all the hostages, by the way, all the hostages, not just three. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max! ♪ like a relentless weed, moderate to severe ulcerative colitis symptoms can keep coming back. start to break away from uc with tremfya... with rapid relief at 4 weeks. tremfya blocks a key source of inflammation.

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stop by granger for the ones who get it done. >> we do. >> have major. >> developments out of washington. >> have we already sort of crossed a rubicon. >> in. >> terms of. >> who we are. >> as a. country and what. >> the. rule of law is? >> america is listening to you. >> right. >> now, thinking about. what might have been. >> people hearing you, talking about the pushback. >> and the fight. >> in. >> that mattering. >> what does that. >> mean in practical terms? >> what they're doing to. >> immigrants is something they. >> say they're going. >> to do every day. >> what's democratic. >> strategy for.

>> trying to take. >> that on? >> we've got. >> a free press, a free people, and an organized political. >> opposition that represents fully. >> half the country. >> so here we go. it's on. >> you've said before that the us. >> would buy. >> gaza. >> and today you. >> just said. >> we're not going to buy gaza. >> we're not going to have to buy we're going to we're going to have gaza. we don't have to buy. there's nothing to buy. we will have gaza. what does that mean? no reason to buy. there is nothing to buy. it's gaza. it's a it's a war torn area. we're going to take it. we're going to hold it. we're going to cherish it. >> mr. president, take it. under what authority? >> it is sovereign. >> territory under the us authority. >> it's going to hold it, and he's going to cherish it. president trump welcomed king abdullah of jordan to the white house today, and had him sit by his side while he argued again that the us was going to take over gaza and force the 2 million people who live there to leave. joining us now, the host of ayman right here on msnbc, ayman mohyeldin and political correspondent for the times of israel, tal schneider. all right. thank you both for being here. tal, i'm going to begin

with you. is this something that benjamin netanyahu is asking donald trump for? >> i don't. >> think he asked him for that. but obviously he was happy and cheerful to hear that last week when he was at. >> the white house. >> it used to be a fringe, really, something that people even were ashamed to talk about. we call it here transfer. it was it was off, you know, the public discourse. nobody even dared to raise such ideas. it was fringe groups who were used to say those things. and right now it's the policy of the white house. so, i mean, netanyahu embraced it with his two hands, and he repeated that since then. and i think it's, you know, making netanyahu and other people in israel to have some illusions about about the future of the region. obviously, you are not going to be able to transfer or to move even, even willingly. 1.8 million people. it's just, you know, it's i don't think it can happen. >> when donald trump says the us is just going to have it. the us

doesn't need to buy it. we're just going to have it, and we're going to hold it and we're going to cherish it. is does he believe that that israel is just going to hand over that land, say he was able to remove people? i know that's not possible, but is the implication there that israel is just going to say here, this is now yours. it's a gift. >> it's not israel's to hand over. israel doesn't have any sovereignty on this area. it is a war torn area. that's true. and they've been attacking israel for such a long time with the massacre and even before that, with rockets on israel at all times. but it's not israel's to give away. it's not. it's, you know, israel doesn't it doesn't hold any rights to, to this, you know, portion of the land. so, i mean, israel is doing what it needs to do to defend its own citizens, but obviously, and that's the result is very, very harsh and everyone can see. but i don't know who takes over land in greenland or in, in, in gaza or elsewhere

around the world. it's not, you know, it's not a territory that is no man's land. it's, you know, there are people living there. >> all right. ayman. when he says that palestinians are going to want to leave, they're going to want to leave. they don't want to be there. it's hell. what is the reality? are there people who are going to want to leave? are there people who are going to want to stay? >> there are people who left. i mean, we already know that at the beginning of the war, i mean, as we just heard and even as the president said, the population of gaza before the war was 2.2 million. it's down now to 1.8 million. the death toll estimates are anywhere between 60 to 85,000, generously. but at the same time, some have said it's even higher. so there are people who have left and there will be people who would want to leave. but the truth of the matter is, historically, palestinians will not want to leave. and all you have to do and all the president has to do or any of his advisers have to do, is spend a little time on social media and just see palestinians for themselves,

responding directly to the president of the united states from children as young as five and six and seven years old, to people who have survived the nakba in 1947 and 48, who have said they are not leaving their land. so you can find a handful of people who may want to leave. but the overwhelming majority of the palestinians there won't leave, and they won't leave for the simple reason that this is not a gaza development plan. this is not a gaza reconstruction plan. it's not a gaza economic plan. this is a gaza ethnic cleansing plan. and for them, that is the only way they see it. and they're not going to leave their land voluntarily. the only way they are going to leave their land is if they are forcibly expelled. >> king abdullah was clearly in an uncomfortable position today, having to sit next to donald trump as he was claiming that america was going to take this over and they were just going to move everybody off. and he fielded questions from reporters and walked something of a diplomatic tightrope. let's listen. >> there is a plan from egypt and the arab countries. we're being invited by mohammed bin salman to discussions in riyadh. i think the point is, is how do

we make this work in a way that is good for everybody? and obviously we have to look at the best interests of the united states, of the people in the region, especially to my people of jordan. and we're going to have some interesting discussions today. i think one of the things that we can do right away is take 2000 children that are either cancer children or in very ill state to jordan as quickly as possible and then wait for, i think, the egyptians to present their plan on how we can work with the president to work on the gaza challenges. >> how how are middle east leaders responding to this, the ones that donald trump is calling out, saying that they're going to be the ones that are going to take the palestinians? >> yeah. >> i mean, it's interesting because you saw today a few interesting dynamics happen. on one hand, the king specifically said that, you know, we're going to talk about all of this. and he tried to kind of make this offering of, we will take 2000 palestinian children in as a gesture, like, this is what we're willing to take, anyone that we're willing to take in

this kind of context of treatment, we'd be willing to entertain. i think you can expect the egyptians to say something similar. the qataris have already been doing that. >> but that's not 2 million people. >> no. and it's also not resettling of the population of gaza. it's taking people in. it's treating them. it's allowing them to rehabilitate their lives and sending them back to gaza, allowing them to go back to gaza. so what he was offering there was this kind of, you know, gesture, if you will, and offering that he wants to work with this administration. you're not going to find an arab leader sitting in the white house next to donald trump and saying to his face, your plan is nonsense. we're not doing it. however, to be clear, that's exactly what the king of jordan has been saying when he's not sitting next to the president inside the white house, he's been saying categorically that he will not be taking in resettling of palestinians. and i think one other point just to make just to be very clear about this and to button it up, when the president was asked, are you willing to withhold aid from jordan? he said, no, i don't think we're going to need to do that. even though the president himself last week was saying, i give them billions of dollars and i'm prepared to kind of

withhold funding for it. for them. >> to do this. is donald trump acting as the blunt instrument. he is unburdened by any history. he clearly doesn't understand the history there. is he going to force the conversation into a new space, perhaps, maybe a more productive space to try to find a way to make gaza habitable and also safe? >> my instinct of reading donald trump is that he doesn't know what he's talking about. and i fundamentally mean that because he contradicts himself all of the time. he says they're going to make gaza a beautiful place. why would the palestinians want to live there? he will say that he wants to offer that territory to people around the world and bring thousands of jobs. why would the palestinians be excluded from coming and being part of those territories, and that economic development that he has in store? why would he offer this and then say, but the palestinians cannot come back? and so to his earlier point, israelis are seeing there's certainly a certain part of the israeli society and say this is a golden opportunity. he doesn't know what he's talking about. we can exploit this to our advantage. there are people in israel from the very beginning

of the war who said, we need to repopulate gaza, make it into a parking lot. let's get settlers back in there. and again, to the point that israel for 50 years tried to control gaza, occupied gaza, had settlements in there, could not possibly bring gaza under its entire control, and ultimately decided to withdraw its troops and settlers in 2005. i think that is a lesson to anyone who thinks, even if america goes in there and tries to reoccupy gaza or try to take gaza under its control, it will not succeed. >> you can't do something by force in that region. it has not been possible. tal, one final question to you the hostages. donald trump is also demanding all of the hostages get released this saturday. it is seen as a very dire moment in israel, given the way that the last three hostages were released. >> right. and we expect three more hostages this saturday. but the as you mentioned, the deal may fall apart because of all of those statements, because the hamas claimed that israel is in a breach and israel claims that hamas is in a breach. and if things don't go back into track,

getting at least, you know, just three people this saturday. and definitely we hope to see all of them immediately. but it's not part of the deal at the moment. they need to negotiate that in order to get there, and we hope the israeli government will enter into the negotiation and get everybody out. that's definitely the goal, but i don't think it's going to happen this saturday. and when they pull out people in such a bad, you know, difficult situation, it's really horrifying to watch. and we have so many people in there still. >> tal schneider, ayman mohyeldin, guys, thank you very much for helping us make sense of this situation of what donald trump is trying to say here. still ahead, what republicans are saying to concerned constituents about the role elon musk is playing in the federal government. and after more than three years in a russian prison, and american marc fogel is on his way home, what led to his his way home, what led to his release? when emergency strikes, first responders rely on the latest technology. that's why t-mobile created

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now for a doge related executive order. we're not quite sure what it is. we're going to bring it to you once we get what we call tape playback. meanwhile, mark fogle, an american teacher detained by russia since 2021 on charges of bringing medical marijuana across the border, has just been released by russian authorities. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent aaron gilchrist. tell us about this deal. >> well, katie, you just showed

that photo of mark fogle. that's the first image that we've seen. as we understand, he is currently on an airplane in the air headed back to the united states. that photo being posted on x by the special presidential envoy on hostage affairs, saying that it is a real time image of mark fogle as he is on his way back to the united states. the statement that we got unexpectedly, quite frankly, from the national security adviser earlier today was that president trump had authorized and started negotiations for an exchange that the white house and the national security adviser see as a show of good faith from the russians, and a sign that they're moving in the right direction to end the war in ukraine. we, as you noted, mark fogle, had been held in a russian prison since he was charged back in 2021 and sentenced to 14 years for possession of marijuana. essentially, drug smuggling was the charge that the russians had put on him. and in that time, we know there have been health concerns from his family about

mark fogle while he was being held there late last year, he was designated as wrongfully detained, which set in motion a series of activities from the hostage affairs office at the state department to help to try to secure his release. and now we have it. this image showing, along with that statement from the white house, that they were able to negotiate that release. katie, the question still remains, though, what was traded? what was the exchange from the united states for mark fogle's release, something that we're trying to still get answers to. and quite frankly, we may be able to hear from president trump himself as he is in the oval office now about to sign some executive orders. >> with elon musk. we know what it's about. >> the we don't know specifically what the order is about. we know that this is expected to be something related to doge. obviously, elon musk is a special government employee who's been tasked with leading this office within the white house that has had its staffers fan out across several government agencies. so far. it would not be unwise to expect

that eventually his his team will touch every government agency and department as it tries to, as the president said, look for abuse, waste and fraud. and obviously it caused quite a stir and led to dozens of lawsuits against the trump administration. for some of the executive orders and actions that doge has been taking, for example. >> yeah, you just saw that picture of elon musk in the oval office with donald trump and his son. the pool is saying that musk is talking about how gravitas can be difficult. we'll get the full context on that. he's saying people in the federal bureaucracy need to be held accountable. again, this is these are rough notes. so we're going to figure out the full exchange in just a moment. donald trump has asked him to say some of the numbers that he's found going through the federal government. all right. we're going to keep an eye out for that. aaron gilchrist, thank you very much. coming up, what republicans are admitting to concerned constituents about elon musk as musk again joins

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acknowledged musk's track record for innovation but then added this quote i share your concerns regarding potential conflicts of interest and overreach, protecting the personal information of americans is a fundamental responsibility, and any breach of privacy is alarming. the prospect of private individuals or companies having unfettered access to sensitive data raises critical questions about accountability, oversight and the safeguarding of our citizens rights. and there's also gop congressman mike flood, who tried to tried to reassure his nebraska district, saying, quote, that mr. musk absolutely does not have full access to the federal payment system. he pledged to take his responsibility under the constitution very seriously to respect congress's power of the purse, and restated his intention to protect nebraskans. joining us now, the bulwark congressional reporter joe perricone. joe, how much of this

is a pro forma response from a lawmaker to a constituent? joe, my friend, i think you were on. mute up there. start over. you're not on mute. we got your audio. >> sorry. >> you know, you can call. >> your member. >> of congress. >> for anything, and you. >> can complain. >> to them. >> and be concerned about anything, and they'll usually give you a good response. >> in this case. >> we. got our hands on about. >> a dozen letters. no telling of how many more there are out there. >> those are just the ones we got and verified that showed. >> that these members are. >> saying. >> one thing in public. >> and saying another. >> thing in private. they love to do. >> that in behind. >> closed doors. >> but with their constituents. >> this really shows that. >> they're. >> empathizing with. >> their. >> case, or they're may. be very. concerned about the political. >> ramifications of. >> you know. >> not being. >> too tough on this. >> billionaire who's unelected, unconfirmed by the. >> senate. >> who's been meddling in every government department. >> but with this social.

>> security thing. >> there's a financial uncertainty there. and that's what gets people more. >> concerned. >> like these members that have to reassure their constituents. >> what are they doing within congress to make sure that elon musk's reach isn't infinite? >> not much. you know. >> for the past several weeks since trump took. >> office, and. >> certainly since. >> doge has really. >> picked up steam. i've spent many. >> days asking republicans in the house. >> and senate. >> is this acceptable? isn't it your job to control taxpayer money? and there's been nothing but a lot of shrugs there. >> there's been some concern. >> it's been rhetoric. >> but as we've seen with these letters. >> sometimes they say one thing publicly. >> and then they say another. >> thing to their constituents. >> is there a point at which it is your understanding that republicans might stand up and say, this is going too far? i mean, elon musk is in the oval office right now. he's going to be talking about numbers he's allegedly found in the federal government. it's unclear what exactly he'll be describing, but

so far, there have been a lot of individuals within the federal government who have been put on leave or asked to take a buyout. there's been a whole lot of reporting about his access to financially sensitive information and personal information. do you have a sense that there is a red line for republicans, where they might just come out and decide to speak out against elon musk and maybe ask president trump to hold him back? >> i'm not so sure. >> every time we've seen a red line. >> get crossed. >> it. >> gets pushed further and. >> further away. those who have seen red lines. and crossed them and said, how dare you? have been ostracized from the party so i don't. >> see much action from this. >> where it does become tricky is if it becomes. >> a political issue. >> and financial uncertainty is the number one thing. a lot of the baby boomers. in the peak years of the late 50s, they're going to be filing for social. >> security for. >> the first time this year, next year. and if somebody's rifling around.

>> with the social security system. >> that. could cause a lot. >> of uncertainty. >> for the people that rely on that money. and that's where it could come back to bite republicans. >> so again, musk is in the oval office right now. and musk is saying that his goal here is to restore democracy. that's what he says. and they said that they're looking into. federal employees who had a high net worth despite their low pay. so that means that they're they're getting into the individual finances of individual government employees and implying that there's corruption there. i mean, we started this whole show off by talking about the ways that the government is weakening the controls around corruption for political folks, and then also for individual companies and also for, say, the mayor of new york here, who donald trump wants to help with, help him with immigration policy. i wish i could ask you a

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team. check out for imprint comm. >> for imprint for certain. >> when you need. brutal honesty. when you need answers. first thing in the morning. when you need to go deep inside washington and hear from someone who's been there. you need your morning joe. weekdays at six. only on msnbc. >> hi there everyone. it's 4:00 in new york from.