i'd rather the president of the united states and the president of russia talk to each other. you know, these things in traditional administrations are elaborately prepared for, you know, there's long briefs about what you should say. and by the way, putin had that. you know, trump obviously likes to kind of talk off the cuff about it. and that's always dangerous. and that's what's what's happened in the past. but again, you know, i mean, he did say he would end the war in ukraine in 24 hours. he hasn't done that. but i'm glad at least he's talking to putin about it. and i hope he includes mr. zelensky in those discussions. >> vaughn hillyard and rick stengel. rick, thank you very much. great seeing you both, i appreciate it. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. ali vitali picks up with more news right now. >> good day. i'm ali vitali in washington, and we. >> begin with. >> breaking news from the white house. >> president trump. >> saying he's spoken. >> with russian president vladimir putin this morning. >> trump says he agreed to. >> visit russia. >> and putin is. >> coming here. >> to the u.s. it's. >> a major. >> development, as the senate

just confirmed former congresswoman tulsi gabbard as the next director of national intelligence. a win for the trump administration, but not without its drama. gabbard was one of president trump's most controversial cabinet picks. even some republicans questioned her lack of experience in the intelligence community, her past embrace of russian propaganda. we'll get to that in just a moment. and how she's questioned u.s. intelligence assessments, as well as that secret hours long meeting gabbard had back in 2017 with now ousted syrian leader bashar al assad. but 52 republican senators fell in line to confirm the president's pick anyway. mitch mcconnell broke ranks and voted against gabbard, but he was the lone republican. the next test for the president's cabinet is hhs nominee robert f kennedy jr. right now, a procedural vote to move his confirmation is underway in the senate, with a final vote set for tomorrow. smart money says he gets confirmed for that position, too. and then kash patel faces a committee vote himself tomorrow on his nomination to lead the fbi. but there's a potential new holdup. patel is now facing

accusations he secretly orchestrated the recent fbi purge of agents who worked on the january 6th investigation. if that's true, that might mean he he perjured himself during his hearing. also on the hill today, the president's personal lawyer, todd blanche, is facing the senate judiciary committee for his own nomination hearing as deputy attorney general, the number two spot within the doj. there is a lot to cover and a lot of moving pieces. so let's get started with nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett hake, nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, nbc news investigative reporter dan deluce, and former special assistant to president george w bush and a member of his national security council, michael allen. ryan, i'll get to you in a moment on the dynamics on capitol hill. but first, i want to go to the panel here. dan, your reaction, as you and i both, we were all reading the president's truth social post about his call with vladimir putin. several things struck us in that. what was top for you? >> i mean. >> first of all, what's. >> interesting is he doesn't make any kind of threat.

>> or. >> warning that russia needs to a, you know, halt the fighting, or b fear that maybe there will be u.s. sanctions or more weapons going to ukraine. so there's no mention of that. i think if you're ukraine, if you're zelensky, president zelensky, you have to be concerned. are they talking are russia and the u.s. talking without me, without ukraine? will they be excluded? i think that's a concern. another thing that jumps out is there was no mention of the envoy to ukraine, general kellogg, who's heading to europe this week for the munich conference and is supposed to be the point man. so that was also strange and surprising. >> yeah, i do think that those things were notable. michael, does this, in your estimation, put zelenskyy on his back foot, sort of in a defensive position given putin and trump seem to have already discussed what the path forward might look like. >> a. >> little bit. i mean, we've been worried. >> for months and. >> throughout the campaign that. >> trump might try to pressure. zelensky into some sort of peace arrangement. what's happened is, is that now the russians are winning. they're making incremental gains. >> not gigantic gains.

>> so the thought process has shifted to what leverage does president trump have over putin to get him to the table? but what i sense here in the last 24, 48 hours is a breaking of the ice between the united states and russia. we saw marc fogel come out. we saw the secretary of defense this morning in europe say, there's no way that ukraine is going to join nato. that enabled this call to occur here. and i just think you're going to begin to see more and more movement meetings and really serious negotiations about what to do next. >> well, even as the president says in this statement, they want to work together very closely. they want to visit each other's nations. garrett, i want to bring you in here. what's the white house saying about this and the latest iteration of the trump-putin relationship? >> well, look, i think there are people at the white house who are probably discovering this in real time, as we are today. it was pretty closely held how all of this was going on with russia over the last 24 hours or so, and i want to step back a little

bit and relate these things, because you cannot possibly overstate the enormity of the shift that this conversation that this truth social post represents and how the u.s. is treating russia promises to visit these countries, naming a delegation to engage in negotiations about the future of ukraine, something that the president has been telegraphing for quite some time, by the way. but i do think this started, or at least a jumping off point, was the fogel release. i was on the phone with an official about an hour ago, talking about the exchange that took place here, and the idea that the white house felt like there was a goodwill gesture here by the russians, that this was the kind of thing that might start things moving. and i asked this person on the phone, what will the next step look like? is there some low level delegation? is there something that's going to happen to kind of continue to build incrementally on this trust? and i should have thought bigger because we're seeing it here in real time. and we've seen with donald trump so many times in the past, think about north korea in the first term, where he jumps right to that leader to leader engagement, the way that he likes to deal with foreign

leaders. and in this call, you see the kind of fruits of that sort of small bit of trust building the policy shifts that have been discussed for the duration of the trump administration and the trump campaign, kind of layering on top of each other to create what i think trump and the white house hopes will be a relationship with putin that can be used to end the war. >> michael, from your perch, having worked in these national security situations, building on trust makes sense, especially for the way that trump himself relies on his personal relationships to do diplomacy. but this has been a long standing, tenuous relationship between the united states and russia. >> it really has. it goes back many years, of course, since at least their invasion of ukraine the first time in 2014. by taking crimea, it obviously went really off the road during the biden administration. we always know about trump that he wants to get sort of the great power relationships, right, even when it makes some of the foreign policy folks in town a little

bit nervous. but he's moving forward. i'd almost call him confidence building measures. it's a costless gesture from trump to be able to sort of acknowledge that there's no way ukraine is going to get out of nato, and it's easy for putin to be able to release a hostage. so this is just sort of a step by step. let's see how far this goes. and i think putin and trump are going to get together in the near future. and that will be a spectacle to behold. >> yeah, definitely. sounds like garrett hague and the rest of our white house press corps might have some travel in their future. but ryan nobles, i want to bring you in here because i do think an important piece of the equation just clicked into place because of the senate's voting. tulsi gabbard, now confirmed as director of national intelligence. some of the questions that we had heard from reluctant senators was that intelligence sharing is not a mandatory piece of our alliances on the world stage. certainly, when it comes to conversations that trump is having with putin and russia, gabbard will likely be privy to those in the future. so how did this vote break down

and talk about the fact that mcconnell is the only no vote hanging out there? how do you explain that one? >> yeah, and. >> what is pretty startling about mcconnell's no vote. >> is the statement. >> that went. >> along with. >> it, where. >> he specifically addresses many of the concerns. that many in the intelligence and national. security security community. >> had about tulsi gabbard. >> he puts it in. >> in plain reading. as to why. >> he voted no. >> he says that the nation should. >> not have. >> to worry. >> that the intelligence assessments that the president. >> are received are receiving. >> are tainted by a director of national intelligence with a history of alarming lapses in judgment. that's what mcconnell says about tulsi gabbard. he talks about her comments about edward snowden refusing to call him a traitor. and then he goes on to say, which dovetails into the conversation that you're already having, that russia, russia's escalation of its unprovoked war of aggression against ukraine threatens americans interests and is solely the responsibility of

vladimir putin. and that's in reference to the fact that in the past, tulsi gabbard has made statements about the russia-ukraine war, in which she suggests that perhaps there's blame to go around on both sides. so the important part of this is mitch mcconnell can issue all the most strongly worded statements that he wants. she still was confirmed and confirmed relatively easy with another a number of republicans who had expressed concerns about especially that confirmation hearing she had, where she failed to answer very basic questions about united states national security and her view on it, which led to many republicans questioning whether or not she could be confirmed. all of them flipped. james lankford voted yes. lisa murkowski voted yes. susan collins voted yes. mitch mcconnell is the lone no vote. and that's not enough to sink her nomination. she is now the next director of national intelligence. despite all these concerns, and now against the backdrop of trump and putin beginning to have a very specific and direct line of

communication ally. >> it also makes sense, ryan, when you look at the way that mcconnell has talked about the way he's going to continue to flex his muscle, even though he's out of leadership, foreign policy and america's role on the world stage has always been the focal point that he has returned to. this idea of pushing back against america first exceptionalism. so this makes a lot of sense. but the other way that a lot of these reluctant senators got to, yes, was through jd vance. right? >> that's exactly right. and i'll make two points about that. the first, you're right that this is mitch mcconnell flexing his muscles, but it also demonstrates that he doesn't have nearly the authority and sway that he once had when he was the republican leader, the only no vote that mitch mcconnell could muster or convince, despite how strongly he felt about tulsi gabbard's nomination was his own, he was largely silent. in fact, he was completely silent in the lead up to this vote, did not appear to try and impress upon his other republican senators just how much concern he had about tulsi gabbard. he just waited until the final day and voted no. he even voted yes to move her

nomination forward to get to this point. so that gives us a lot of insight into how mitch mcconnell might have strong opinions about these things, but doesn't really necessarily have that much sway. and then to your other point about jd vance, there's clearly a lot of people on the hill that grew to respect jd vance and his world view and view him as a conduit into the trump administration. he wasn't here in the senate for very long, but the relationships he built are proving to have dividends for the trump white house, because it was vance who did a lot of this direct conversations with senators to make them feel more comfortable about putting tulsi gabbard into this position. and that turned out to be fortuitous for tulsi gabbard, as she gets many of those votes that seem to be hanging out there as possible, no votes and gets over the finish line and is now the director of national intelligence. >> yeah, proving himself to be an efficient emissary for the administration. dan, i want to go to you because when you talk about all the different lenses

that you can view these multiple stories through, snowden was a through line during tulsi gabbard's confirmation hearing. her answers were things that definitely made republican senators nervous. ultimately, as ryan is explaining, they got to yes anyway. but talk about the different layers here on these stories that may seem like they're separate, but are actually all very intertwined. >> you know, what's really interesting is that discussion just now shows you just how much the republican party has changed on foreign policy, and her nomination and her confirmation is an illustration of that. right. she had very left views, very progressive views about the 702 surveillance program, the global eavesdropping program that a lot of people on the left felt was an invasion of privacy, invasion of civil liberties. she basically kind of walked back her view in those hearings, but not fully. and she tried to reassure those senators, including collins, and they say they were happy with her answers. so she was trying to walk the line. that's an example. snowden. same thing. wasn't ready to call him a traitor, but did acknowledge he

broke the law. she really tried to soften her stance. >> she made some semantics arguments in an op ed. >> yes, but it was enough, right? but it just shows you this is someone who would never have been allowed into the republican foreign policy circle. at one time. >> you were nodding. >> yeah, i totally agree. the republican party has changed. we're no longer the party of mitch mcconnell and george w bush. even i think we are a more populist, working class party. and i think that is seen throughout these votes and throughout the influence of donald trump. >> dan garrett, michael, who am i forgetting? ryan, all of you, for joining us during a busy breaking news afternoon. thank you for joining us. and we'll check back in with you as news warrants. meanwhile, new numbers on the economy out today showing consumer prices had their biggest jump in about a year and a half in january. painfully high egg prices and food overall, as well as energy and housing, drove the january inflation report up more than expected to 3% compared to last

year. nbc news senior business correspondent christine romans joins me now. christine, give us the context on the data and what it actually means. dollars and cents for consumers. >> well, the. >> context i think is really. >> important here because, remember. >> inflation was as high as. 9% a couple of years ago when the worst of that of that inflation crisis and now had fallen down to 2.9%. so there was some relief that this last mile of the inflation fight may be slow. but we were getting there. but then, look, you've got a little bit of an uptick on this chart there that shows you that the inflation dragon has not been slayed. and you look inside these numbers, about a third of the of the reason for that 3% inflation number is shelter. that has been a really sticky part of the inflation story. food prices up 4/10 of a percent from december to january. energy prices also rising, although not as briskly as they had at the end of last year. and these are things that, you know, you can't really trade out of your family budget. so that's why people still feel so sour about the

inflation story. inside these numbers, two egg prices almost doubled over the past year. a year ago they were like 250 a dozen. now they're knocking on the door of $5. also, you look in here, milk prices are higher. gasoline though pretty flat here. also, when i dig in these numbers auto insurance up, airfares up, fuel oil up. that's something that's a higher price for businesses. all of these show that inflation is still a problem. and this is what sets up to be a trick a problem for the fed. the fed had been lowering interest rates last year because inflation had been getting back under control. if inflation stays like this, with the possibility of even higher prices and more inflationary policies from the new trump administration, that means the fed doesn't have a lot of room to keep lowering interest rates here for right now. so borrowing costs stay high, grocery bills higher than people would like. the american people, remember, elected donald trump to lower prices. so we'll see what kind of progress he can make here. >> yeah, definitely worth remembering that key campaign promise so far not fulfilled.

christine romans, thank you. in 90s, a show of force from president trump and elon musk in the oval office, as more federal programs and thousands of government workers face an uncertain future. and we'll speak with one of the inspectors general who was fired by the trump administration and is now filing suit. and later, more on this morning's phone call between president trump and russian president vladimir putin with the former u.s. ambassador with the former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul, ready ♪ (male vo) big. (female vo) small. essential. (male vo) big. small. essential. (female vo) big. small. (male vo) essential. (female vo) grande. (male vo) pequeño. (female vo) esencial. no matter what business you're in, verizon business has the network and solutions you need to power it. tap into etsy for home and style staples

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eight government watchdogs, also known as inspectors general, have sued the administration over their firings last month. they say the president exceeded his authority and are asking a court to allow them to return to work. the eight igs oversee $5 trillion in spending and about 80% of the federal workforce. joining me now is one of those fired attorneys general, inspector general mike ware, formerly of the small business administration. mike, first, just start off with the basics. thank you for joining us. why are you suing the administration here? >> well, then we are we? brought suit basically to stand up for independent and transparent government oversight. that's the main reason because right now our folks don't even feel like they could conduct their jobs. and this is about our folks. when you take a look at what

would happen to inspector general martin putting out a report and then immediately fired for those of the reasons that we have filed suit. >> why should taxpayers, in your estimation, care about igs and these firings? it sounds, i think to some people like the like the faceless members of these administrations. can you put a human face on this for folks? >> let me let me see. so igs are independent. we are nonpartisan, which means that we are the taxpayers advocates within each of government agencies. our job is to look for fraud, waste and abuse and make recommendations to make their government our government more efficient. we increase transparency and we hold leaders accountable. we save taxpayers about $100 billion a year, and we help improve the programs and their

agencies. and that's why they should care, and they should care because we're nonpartisan, we're apolitical, and we tell just the straight truth based on what the criteria before us states. we're not even put in office based on political affiliation, which is why it's critical that you have an you have independent watchdogs who are unafraid to speak truth to power. and we are your biggest advocates. >> central to this conversation and the actions that the trump administration are taking when it comes to closing agencies, firing federal workers. the central person in all of that is elon musk. so what is your level of concern about his reach within this administration? >> well, my level of concern relative to that reach is not really why it really has little to do with ig. and i'll give you what that means. when we first learned about doge, i, as the

chairman of the council of inspectors general for integrity. and get this efficiency, try to reach out for a conversation to let them know what igs actually do in terms of driving government efficiency. igs have put out hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of recommendations, many of which are unimplemented, that if implemented, we would immediately have a much more efficient government. >> and so what was the upshot of that conversation, mike, when you presented that opportunity? >> i never, never received any call back. >> and just to be clear, you were trying to reach out to musk and other members of doge for that, right? >> i was given a contact person who was the main conduit for them. i cannot remember the name right now. >> still notable, of course, that you would reach out in an effort to maximize government

efficiency from your post as inspector general and never received a call back. mike ware, i appreciate you joining us by phone just after filing this suit, being part of the suit that's being filed. thank you. and president trump, to that end, is giving elon musk, who's the richest man in the world, even more power to slash government spending and staff. despite the mounting legal challenges to most of musk's efforts so far, musk joined the president in the oval office last night, his first public appearance to defend the cuts, with his son. at one point hoisted on his shoulders, musk took aim at what he called fraudsters, who, he alleges without evidence, are taking advantage of the federal government, all while insisting on doj's transparency. despite the group's unprecedented secrecy. >> it's not. >> draconian or radical. >> cursory examination. >> of social security. >> and we've got people in there that are 150. >> years old now. >> do you. >> know anyone who's 150? >> i don't. the people voted for major government reform, and that's what people are going to

get. they're going to get what they voted for. i don't know of a case where an organization has been more transparent than the doge organization. >> back with us is nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett hake, who we will never allow to leave a camera. and former federal prosecutor paul butler joins us as well here at the table. garrett, first to you. how much actual evidence of fraud did we get from elon musk and the president yesterday? >> well, almost none. i mean, this is part of the challenge here. i think for the doj's folks, waste is somewhat in the eye of the beholder. one person can look at a program and decide that it's wasteful and cut spending, or cancel a contract or so forth, but fraud suggests a crime, and it suggests something that is truly unethical or improper. and on that, we mostly got. elon musk saying that they're going to put this information on x, that they'll post it or post it to the doge website. and i think for people who are distrustful of this whole operation and the manner in which it's been conducted, that's just not enough. i can post on x that the cowboys will win the super bowl next year, but it doesn't make

it true. and i think this is going to be the continuing challenge for musk and the trump administration going forward. if they want sort of a greater sense of buy in to the work that's being done. and elon musk is right about this, it was definitely a very much a campaign promise of donald trump to reform how government is working. they're going to have to do more than just sort of, you know, post screenshots, if even that, on x or online. >> you and i can trade giants and cowboys woes when we're off the air. but paul, i'll come to you first, because in that conversation that we had with one of the fired inspectors general who is now filing suit to get their jobs back. the case that he was making was to the public. i am your advocate within the government trying to make sure that there's oversight and accountability. what was your reaction when you heard that? >> it's so important. to understand that inspector generals are. >> independent watchdogs. >> they're supposed to root out. >> waste and. >> fraud in. >> the federal. >> agencies, and they're nonpartisan. >> that's why they. >> get terms that. >> are different. >> from presidential

administrations, because. >> they're not. >> political appointees under the law. they have to. the president. >> can fire them, but they. >> have to have a. >> specific reason that. >> they're firing them. and there has to be 30 days notice. >> president trump did not. >> follow that. so these firings are clearly illegal. the question is what's. >> going to happen? >> there was. >> one. >> inspector general, phyllis fong, at. >> the agriculture. >> department who said. >> i'm. >> not leaving because this is illegal. she was escorted out by security. >> i was struck, though, that what he was saying on the phone with us was that he tried to reach out to doj to say our efforts are actually potentially aligned here when it comes to rooting out misuse of funds and fraud. and he never got a call back. >> great question. so we had an inspector general report just this week looking at the agency for international development, which trump and musk want to get rid of because they say they're wasting money. the inspector general said, look, all of these delays and uncertainty, they're wasting money. right now, $500 million in food is in danger of

being spoiled. that needs to go to people who desperately need this food. and guess what happened to that inspector general? he got fired last night by the trump administration. again, they often do these reports that embarrass the government. that's why they're supposed to be independent. and that's why it, again, is against the law to do what trump did. >> so we'll certainly be tracking that ongoing suit. but paul, i want to also play for you. supreme court justice sonia sotomayor is not so subtle. swipe from yesterday at president trump's actions amid larger questions of whether or not the trump administration will defy any of the court orders that they've so far seen. >> watch. court decisions stand whether one particular person chooses to abide by them or not. it doesn't change the foundation that it's still a court order that someone will respect. at some point. >> the larger question, i think, looming over all of this as we

see legal challenge after legal challenge, is, is the judicial system equipped to handle this moment? >> well. >> we have to see it's uncertain at this point. so president trump said yesterday that he respects courts. he'll follow decisions that turned out to be breaking news, in part because last week his own vice president said, well, the supreme court doesn't have an army, so how can it enforce its own decisions? alluding to something that was said 100 years ago, when the authority of the court seemed less clear under the constitution, is clear right now that there are designated roles. trump is trying to take more power than he has under the constitution. that's not actually that. all that unusual. even president obama, president biden, they use executive orders that seek to expand the power of their office. the supreme court is supposed to be the check. will it be the check here? it may be, but it may check in a way that agrees with what president trump and elon musk are doing. it has this. the conservative justices have this

expansive view of presidential power. so it could be that trump knows what they're doing is breaking the current law. they're kind of saying, make their day, take this, take these cases to the supreme court, because we're going to get our way there. >> garrett, very quickly, in the negative time that i have, is the trump administration engaging at all with this debate that is roiling through washington over whether or not they're on the verge of a constitutional crisis. >> yeah, they're downplaying it. they're saying he's followed every order. he'll continue to follow orders, and he will continue to appeal. and to the point you guys were just making. this has worked for president trump in the past. just look at the presidential immunity case that he took all the way to the supreme court. and then to the shock of many people all across the country, discovered an expanded amount of power of presidential immunity by winning this case to the supreme court. so they feel like in a long enough timeline, this will break their way in the courts. maybe if it gets all the way to the supreme court. >> we will see. garrett hake and paul butler, thank you for joining us. and coming up next, we've got more on the phone call

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plus, ask how to get the new samsung galaxy s25+ on us. to get $50 instantly in site credits with code tv. >> for the first 100 days of this new administration, i am going to be here on msnbc at 9 p.m. eastern five nights a week, monday through friday. we will watch what they do and not just what they say from now on. and for the first 100 days and for the duration. but what they are saying thus far, and what they are doing thus far, have both been utterly shambolic. and none of us should be afraid to say so. and none of us here are so for these first 100 days, you and i, we are going to spend a lot of time together. >> president trump says he spoke on the phone with russian president vladimir putin this morning, and he says the two leaders agreed to work together very closely on ending the war in ukraine and to visit each other's nations. joining me now is democratic maryland senator chris van hollen. he sits on the

foreign relations, appropriations and budget committees. senator, first, your reaction to the president saying he believes there will be a conclusion to the war in ukraine, in his words, hopefully soon. your reaction to that and the call overall? >> well, ali, good to be with you. >> look. >> nobody wants. >> to end the. >> war in ukraine. >> more than the. >> ukrainian people. >> i mean, thousands. >> of their. countrymen have died. >> they also want. >> to protect. >> their sovereignty. so i'm all for negotiations. >> but you don't. >> begin a negotiation. >> the way the. >> secretary of defense, pete hegseth, did. >> on his recent. >> trip to europe. by unilaterally. giving up all. sorts of leverage and undercutting. >> the ukrainian people. >> so yes to discussions. >> yes to. >> negotiations. >> but no to surrendering. >> all the leverage. we have. >> before you even beginhat. >> talks, that that is the president trump may call himself the great negotiator. that is a

terrible approach and throws. >> the, you know, throws. >> the ukrainian. >> people under the. >> bus from the beginning. >> and trump, in this lengthy truthsocial post, says that he's informing president zelensky of the conversation that he had with putin, in his words, right now. so, of course, that's something the white house press corps will be following up on. but i want to pivot also to the business of the senate today, because all of president trump's nominees are seemingly at this point, on track to be confirmed. at the same time, you've got mitch mcconnell as the lone no vote against a republican president's nominee in tulsi gabbard. what does that tell you about the senate that you're operating in today? how is it different than the one that you left at the end of the year and came back to in january? >> well, i've been extremely. >> disappointed in senate republicans. not not surprised, unfortunately. >> but disappointed. >> because they have. >> been giving. >> essentially a blank check. to all. >> sorts of. unqualified nominations. >> and it indicates sort of the

liberating quality of. no longer being the head of the senate republicans. when senator mitch mcconnell casts these votes against republicans. >> doing what. >> he understands is. >> the right thing. >> but we don't see any of his colleagues or very few. >> of them. >> following him. and i think. >> the american. >> people need to be watching, because this trump cabinet is just chock full of people who are unqualified for these positions. >> but i wonder if we can't merge these two topics, the realities of the senate right now, and the way that mcconnell has vowed to continue focusing on things like ukraine and the pending negotiations between russia, ukraine and the united states. do senate democrats potentially see an ally there? however unlikely that sentence might be as they go forward and watch that unfold. >> right. up to now, there's been enough bipartisan. >> support in. >> the. >> senate to. >> support the ukrainian people. we saw that during the last

year, and senator mcconnell was among them. but since trump was elected, reelected, i fear that a lot of that support is disappearing because people who held one view before donald trump was elected are now kowtowing to donald. trump while he's in the white house. this is a very dangerous, slippery slope for the country. when people surrender their votes and their responsibility to one man, two men, actually donald trump and now elon musk. >> you bring me to my next question, because in your home state, there are hundreds of thousands of federal workers. i imagine you are hearing from many of them by text, by by call and other methods. some of your colleagues, like senator andy kim of new jersey, have said that they're open to shutting down the government in mid-march if trump continues dismantling the government along with musk's work. are you of that same mindset? >> well, i don't want to see a government shutdown. i think what senator kim may have been

talking about is that elon musk right now is in the process of shutting down very important services for the american people. and make no mistake, this has nothing to do with government efficiency. that's what they want the american people to think it's about. but if you start by firing the inspector generals of all these agencies, you're firing the people whose job it is to look out for waste, fraud and abuse. they've just now filed a lawsuit. and what you're seeing is all of these lawsuits being filed, because there's a whole lot of lawbreaking going on by elon musk, and the courts have had to step in, and they're issuing temporary restraining orders. but we'd be much better off if republicans in the senate would join us in standing up for the constitution and against these illegal actions. >> i think what kim may have also been talking about, and this is a conversation i've had with other sources on the on capitol hill, is democrats basically needing to throw out the old playbook and start playing hardball in this

environment that we're currently in. so when you and your colleagues get together for caucus lunches and meetings, what are the discussions on strategy for pushback right now? because i feel like the american public is asking the question, what are you doing? and i recognize the limitations of being in the minority, but what's the answer? >> well, we are using all of our, you know, powers in the senate to slow down this train wreck. it's work to stop this train wreck, and we will continue to do that. i mean, we're debating we're about to go on to the rfk jr nomination to be secretary of health and human services, which would put millions of americans at risk from this person who doesn't believe in vaccines. we did the same thing with russell vote. we are requiring them to chew up all their time on the clock. at the end of the day, majority of nominations have a majority vote, so we will continue to use all the pressure points that we can. we're working with the lawyers who are bringing these

cases in court. i've been on the phone with them at length, so whether it's the courts or the congress or rallies throughout the country with the american people, we have to end the illegal musk takeover. and i believe that we will. but we have to keep pushing. >> senator chris van hollen of maryland, thank you for joining us. thank you. next, more on that call between president trump and vladimir putin with former u.s. ambassador to russia as marc fogel, an american who had been held prisoner in had been held prisoner in russia, is now back home. stay [restaurant noise] allison. [swooshing sound] introducing allison's plaque psoriasis. ♪♪ she thinks her flaky, gray patches are all people see. ♪♪ otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. over here! otezla can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis.

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morning's phone call between president trump and russian president vladimir putin. a kremlin spokesman says the call lasted an hour and a half. president trump says the two leaders will start negotiations immediately on ending the war in ukraine. all this comes as nbc news learns the u.s. has agreed to send alexander vinnik, a convicted money launderer, back to russia, as part of the exchange that freed american marc fogel. fogel, an american teacher, returned to the u.s. last night and was greeted by president trump at the white house. fogel was wrongfully detained in russia for three and a half years. joining me now is former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul, whose son was a student of marc fogel's in moscow. first ambassador, i just want to get your reaction to the call. the president issued a very lengthy readout of it. i'm not sure if you've had a chance to read it, but knowing you, i'm sure you have. what stuck out to you and the fact that they're

talking? i mean, what should we be looking ahead to? >> well, that's the most important point. the first thing is that they're talking. we haven't had that between our presidents in a long time. second, what struck me was that they obviously were beginning negotiations about ukraine, which is rather odd because the ukrainians should be part of the negotiation about their country. and i hope that will be fixed in the near term. and the third piece that was striking to me was the reference to world war two and how our countries cooperated together. i like that, of course, is true, but i think we should we should all be reminded that there's a war in ukraine because putin invaded ukraine. we didn't invade ukraine, the ukrainians didn't attack russia. and i hope this kind of false equivalency will soon be retired. >> yeah. >> just reading the way that the president writes the statement, reading out his call with putin, he says that the respective teams are going to start negotiations immediately, and they'll begin by calling president zelensky. so clearly they need to read him in. as you

mentioned, my question is and we asked this earlier in the show, but does that start him from a defensive position? >> absolutely. i mean, it's a horrible position to be starting from, to have the two to call putin first and then call zelensky to give him a readout. second, the secretary of defense today has already given putin two of the biggest things that he wants. he said the ukraine has to give up territory, and ukraine can't become a part of nato. i've negotiated with the russians. it's hard to negotiate with the russians, but diplomacy 101 is you don't give concessions ahead of the negotiations, the negotiations. and so i really don't understand the strategy here. i hope with time we'll have a clearer picture. but capitulation is not going to lead to an agreement that the ukrainians will sign up to. >> i want to pause our conversation briefly, if we can, and go over to the white house,

because my understanding is that adam boehler, who's one of the folks in charge of hostage negotiations, is speaking. if we can bring that up in the control. >> room because we thought, okay, this could be. >> phase one. >> let's get phase two. >> and that was. >> done today. >> can you. >> go ahead? what were they being held for, or was. >> it a variety of things? usually when people are held there's some sort of like espionage, maybe religion stuff. i think we have specifics on each one of them, but they're the kind of charges you would expect when people want to come up with charges. >> for being. >> held in belarus. >> that's right. >> yes. >> okay. and what's your name, sir? >> i don't know offhand. >> i don't yeah. >> anastasia's first name is. so, you know, it's like. it's like madonna that i just end up. sticking with it sometimes. >> either. belarus. >> russia. what? what has sort of cleared the logjam overall here? >> definitely the president of united states. i mean, i firmly believe that a lot of these issues wouldn't have happened if he were president. some of the broader issues. >> but when. >> he comes and i mean, he's

made bringing americans home a top priority and people respond to that. and so i think when you see the president of belarus doing that, whether people like him, whether they don't, it's definitely somebody trying to change the tone with the administration, knowing that the president of united states cares about getting citizens back. >> being hard edged. >> in these. >> negotiations. >> and they're trying to curry favor, or is it trying to signal a new. >> i will say, in my opinion, the smartest countries, the smartest countries are unilaterally stepping forward. and we don't even ask or we say, this would be interesting and they come up with it. and so some of these things i know, you know, everybody thinks about deals here. the smartest thing you can do to curry favor with the president of the united states is bring americans home. he's been clear about that. so that's what the best. >> practices on other hostages in other countries. the president, when he signed the maximum pressure on iran, he mentioned that iran should release all american hostages, confirmed that iran is holding americans. >> iran has americans? >> yes. how many? >> i don't know if i'm at

liberty to say. >> could you confirm? >> yes. the president. >> obviously played a critical role. >> in this. >> can you detail. >> we know he had. >> a. >> conversation with putin today. he talked to zelensky today as he spoke to the belarusian president. some of the conversations that pull back the curtain a bit on his involvement in this direction. >> the president is deeply involved in all of these conversations. he speaks with the hostages. obviously. >> you. >> know, his involvement yesterday. and so it depends on the situation. what ends up happening usually is hill empower his team. he'll say, i want this person out. we come up with options. he approves them. and so and then usually makes calls after. he loves meeting with the americans that are coming home, that makes a big difference. and you can see the personal relationship. >> with the belarusian leader in any form. >> since i don't believe, i am not sure of that, so i don't want to answer it. >> correctly with vladimir putin and help in that. in that exchange, since the lukashenko is a really close ally of vladimir putin, did that help in this? >> not to my knowledge. >> are you contact with the iranians over those who was imprisoned in iran? >> we're always in contact

through lots of channels and any american held anywhere. >> are they doing nationals or just americans? >> again, i'm not at liberty to. >> that was my role in getting marc fogel released. and why did he get involved? >> i don't know that answer. >> okay. thanks, guys. >> give me the. >> release. the president. did we exchange anyone else in release of these three? >> no. this was a unilateral release. unilateral as as well as anastasia before. >> can we wait on government to release the rest of the americans? >> i think the venezuelan government absolutely should. i think they took a big step forward in releasing those two, ric grenell, and i think that they should release the rest. i so we're not i will tell you, this administration and this president are not going to forget about any americans. so it will be down to the last one we will approach across the world. so i think it would be very smart of venezuela to release the rest of the hostages that they have. >> now that we appreciate you.

yesterday the conversation ended with, there's one more american coming, is there? do you have. any for. >> us. >> right now? no teases now. okay, i appreciate you. thank you. i appreciate it, guys. >> thank you. thank you. >> thank you. that was adam boehler, the envoy for u.s. hostage affairs. ambassador mike mcfaul is still with us, i believe. and i wonder, sir, if i can get your reaction to some of the things that we were able to listen into from that impromptu gaggle with reporters right in front of the white house. it seemed that bowler said that there were three detainees released from belarus. one of them was an american citizen. we heard also questions there. i believe i heard peter alexander's voice, our chief white house correspondent, confirming that trump not only spoke with russian president putin, but also with zelensky of ukraine. it's welcome news, given the conversation that you and i were just having before we dipped in there. but what would it say? and what does it say that we're now seeing action on the hostage front from belarus as well as russia, with marc fogel. >> well, i hope it's great news

as far as i'm concerned. i mean, yesterday was a fantastic day for me personally. i know marc, he was a teacher at the school when i was a us ambassador. he taught my son and i give praise to trump and his administration for getting him out. and it sounds like they have another victory in belarus, along with two other belarusian activists, it sounds like. i applaud their efforts. anytime an american gets home, that's good for all of america. >> i think many of us would agree with that statement. and we're so happy that your friend is safely back home. now. i think the question that we heard asked of bowler there that i will also ask you, i imagine your answer might be different is why now? >> well, i don't know the answer. we'll have to find out the details if i'm guessing. i think it's because putin wants to start to create permission, permissive conditions for a deal on ukraine. and if you're putin, you give away a, you know, a 63

year old american teacher. and today you have senior trump administration officials saying ukraine has to give up territory and ukraine cannot join nato. that sounds like a pretty good deal for putin. i hope it's not the end of the deal. i hope it's the beginning of a, you know, a more serious negotiation. but right now, i am not impressed with this as a strategy. it will not lead to enduring peace. and i want to emphasize the ukrainians have to accept this deal. it's a democracy in ukraine. president zelensky has to listen to his people. they've lost tens of thousands of people in this war for them to have fought for three years, and then just give putin everything he wants, that is not a deal that will be acceptable to the ukrainian people. >> when you see what i imagine we will see, which is a readout in similar fashion of the call that trump had with zelensky, what would you be reading for as a good sign? what's something you have to see in it to feel

slightly more optimistic than where you are or seem to be right now? >> i want to hear what putin is giving up. it takes two to tango if it's going to be a negotiation. all we've heard so far is what zelensky has to give up. that will be encouraging to me. if there's some sign that putin is actually giving some concessions that might lead to a mediated ceasefire and an end to this horrific, barbaric invasion again, that putin started, zelensky did not start. >> we will be looking for those details. that readout, of course, in the final minute or so that we have left. i do want to get your reaction, because part of this readout from the call with putin is that we will visit each other's countries. it would be notable for a u.s. president to go to russia. i believe obama was the last president to do so back in 2013. what would that say about this next iteration of u.s. russian relations? >> well, you're right, that was the last visit. i was the u.s.

ambassador when president obama came. i, i don't think it's prudent, frankly. i think they should meet in a neutral territory like they did in helsinki in 2018. the symbolism that that that the idea of the president of the united states traveling to russia while russia is leading the largest conventional war in europe since world war two, i think just has all the wrong symbolism. i hope he thinks about a different venue. >> ambassador michael mcfaul, you've been on tv almost since this morning when i was on tv, but you really are the perfect person for this moment. so thank you for joining us with your perspective. >> sure. thanks for having me. >> and that does it for this hour of msnbc reports. i'll see you right back here tomorrow. and of course, way too early at 5 a.m. eastern time. my friend 5 a.m. eastern time. my friend chris jansing reports. chris ♪♪ sonya earlene and marcia are among the thousands of real women living with metastatic breast cancer;

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