government that's going to have years long consequences. >> yeah, we've had multiple people come on the show and say it's the disruption of the pipeline here. that's going to be the biggest challenge, just to put a very quick pin in it in the last minute we have left. that's not going to disrupt kash patel's path to confirmation likely, right? >> it does not seem so. >> yeah. >> and then very quickly overnight, you also had some u.s. attorneys receive their walking papers. how normal is that? and what's the abnormality? >> yeah. >> i mean, on the quick basis of it is it's normal, but not this way that it's been done. so, you know, typically it will be a resignation request from someone within the justice department. last time, it was attorney general jeff sessions who asked these u.s. attorneys to resign during the biden administration. they gave the trump appointed u.s. attorneys a certain amount of period, three weeks to say, hey, resign by then. in this case you're having it's not through the justice department. this is coming from the white house and saying you are fired, terminated immediately. so it's a definite change in norms. >> what another thing for us to watch here, ryan riley. thank you. ryan's book, sedition hunters how january 6th broke the justice system, is out now, and it's an essential read. that was way too early for this thursday morning. and morning

joe starts right now. >> president trump said that he had. >> a nice phone call with. >> vladimir putin. >> putin was like, i told you. >> i wouldn't forget valentine's day, i. >> knew. >> the only awkward. >> part of the. >> call is when putin said. >> is the president there? >> and both trump and. >> elon said yes. >> good morning. >> and welcome. >> to morning joe. >> it is thursday, february 13th. >> a reminder. >> tomorrow. >> we're on. >> ratner tomorrow. >> okay. we've got a. >> lot. >> to get to that call. between president. trump and russian. >> president vladimir putin. >> president trump is predicting. >> a cease fire. in the conflict, but his comments. yesterday seemed. >> to favor putin's interests for. >> ending the war. >> it comes. >> as defense secretary. >> pete hegseth laid. >> out hard line stances. >> on the future of ukraine. >> and u.s. relations. >> with nato members. >> we'll go through all of that straight ahead. >> plus. >> attorney general. >> pam bondi made a statement. >> yesterday taking action

against the state of new york over. >> its immigration policies. >> but her news. >> conference was. >> a little. >> bit misleading. >> we'll explain that. and new. >> economic data. >> shows inflation. >> is getting worse. and that's. >> before trump's tariffs. we'll look at. >> the latest projections for the future. >> u.s. economy. also ahead, an nfl superstar. is defending taylor swift. >> after she was. >> booed by some. fans at the big game. >> we'll play for you. >> his comments. with us. we have. >> the co-host. >> of the fourth. >> hour and. >> contributing writer at the. >> atlantic. >> jonathan lemire. >> columnist and associate editor. >> for the washington post. >> david ignatius. the host of way too early. ali vitali is with us and former. treasury official and morning. >> joe economic. >> analyst steve rattner. steve, you. >> have charts on the tariffs. we'll get. >> to that with. >> a. >> lot of other things to. >> talk about for. >> and we're going to start this. >> morning with a new. >> development in the. >> middle.

>> east where moments. >> ago. hamas confirmed. >> its commitment. >> to continuing the ceasefire deal. >> in gaza. >> including the hostage exchange. >> that is, according to a. >> statement from. >> the militant group, which now resolves a major dispute that threatened the cease fire deal. >> we're learning. >> that three more. israeli hostages are set to be freed as initially planned. >> this comes. >> after president trump. >> had warned. >> hamas all. >> hell would break loose if the hostages. >> were. >> not released. >> by noon. >> on saturday, and. >> israeli prime minister netanyahu said. military operations would. >> have resumed in this. >> so. david ignatius, your. >> take on. >> this breaking. news and. >> trump's involvement in it. >> so. >> mika. >> i think there's. >> no question that. >> hamas was basically. >> intimidated into. >> resuming the. >> process that had begun. hamas had complained about. >> israeli military. >> operations and had said it wanted to call. off the.

>> next stage. >> there was a series of threats. >> i think the point that i. >> take away from the events. >> of the last. >> week in gaza is that this war, despite the ceasefire and the release of hostages. >> is not over. >> israel is more. >> committed than ever to. destroying hamas. not simply to. >> taking away its military power. >> but to. >> destroying the organization. >> and any. >> political role it has in the future. >> and certainly. >> the future. >> of the. >> enclave there. >> remains front and center. >> president trump earlier this week. >> still insisting. >> upon his plan for perhaps u.s. control. >> of gaza. >> which of course has not been. >> well received by. >> others in the region. >> including the. >> king of jordan. >> just minutes after. >> leaving the oval office, where in the oval office. he was polite with trump, but later put. >> out a. statement made. >> clear that. >> his nation. >> does not support that. but while. >> that is. >> in the. >> background. >> certainly the officials i've talked. >> to at. >> the white house. >> believe that trump's sort of bellicose. rhetoric on this in the last few days. helped push

hamas. >> to continue to uphold his. >> end of the deal. you know, he has suggested there would be violent repercussions, perhaps in the region, if that were not to be the case. of course, this is just breaking news. we will stay on it all morning long. >> meanwhile. >> another big. story from yesterday. president trump speaking with russian president vladimir putin about. ending the war in ukraine. it has been almost three years since russian troops invaded their. >> neighbor, starting. >> a conflict. >> that has. >> killed and. >> injured hundreds. >> of thousands. >> of soldiers. >> the call. >> between president trump and putin is their first. >> confirmed conversation. >> since trump's return to the white house. president trump. >> says that he's. agreed to. >> visit russia, and putin has agreed to come to the united states, but. >> that the. >> two leaders would likely first meet somewhere else a neutral site. trump floated saudi arabia as a possibility yesterday. >> at the white house. >> reporters pressed. >> trump on. >> peace talks. without the ukrainian. >> president. >> freezing out president

zelenskyy. >> of this process. isn't there a danger. >> of that? >> no, i don't think so. as long as he's there. but, you know, at some point you're going to have to have elections to you're going to have to have an election. >> do you view. >> ukraine as an equal member of. >> this peace process? >> it's an interesting question. i think they have to make peace. their people are being killed and i think they have to make peace. >> with nato membership. >> for ukraine. >> i don't think it's practical to have it personally. >> just to. >> be clear. do you see any future in which ukraine returns. >> to. >> its pre. >> 2014 borders? >> well, i think pete said today that that's unlikely, right. it certainly would seem to be unlikely. >> ultimately these are both demands that russia has made in the past. is there not a danger of handing russia a kind of win on this? >> well, well, i think that if you look at the war, the way the war is going, you have to make your own determination. i'm just here to try and get peace. i don't care so much about anything other than i want to

stop having millions of people killed. >> president trump. >> did speak with. >> president zelensky. >> yesterday, writing on social. media that the conversation. >> went very well. >> trump says vice. >> president j.d. >> vance and. >> secretary of state marco rubio are. set to meet with zelenskyy. >> tomorrow in munich. >> ahead of. that meeting. >> treasury secretary scott bessent. met with president. zelenskyy yesterday in kyiv. >> to discuss. >> an. agreement that. would trade. >> access to ukrainian natural resources. for continued. military support. zelenskyy described it as a. >> detailed plan. >> on a strategic partnership between the two countries. that would. include opportunities for american businesses, and said that ukraine. >> wanted investment. >> in its resources. >> meanwhile. >> the secretary of defense, pete hegseth, made. >> his. >> first appearance at the ukraine. defense contact group. >> in brussels yesterday.

>> where he overhauled the u.s. stance on europe's. largest conflict. >> since world war two. the group. >> was formed by. former secretary lloyd austin as a coalition in support of ukraine. hegseth called for an end to the war, but said any goal of returning ukraine to. >> its pre. >> 2014 borders is. unrealistic. and ruled. out nato membership for ukraine. >> we are at, as. >> you said, mr. >> secretary. >> a. >> critical moment as the war approaches its third anniversary. our message is clear. the bloodshed must stop and this war must end. we want, like you, a sovereign and. prosperous ukraine. but we must start by recognizing that returning to ukraine's pre 2014. borders is an unrealistic objective. chasing this illusionary goal will only

prolong the war and cause more suffering. that said, the united states does not believe that nato membership for ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement. instead, any security guarantee must be backed by capable european and non-european troops. if these troops are deployed as peacekeepers to ukraine at any point, they should be deployed as part of a non nato mission and they should not be covered under article five. there also must be robust international oversight of the line of contact. to be clear. as part of any security guarantee, there will not be us troops deployed to ukraine. safeguarding european security must be an imperative for european members of nato. as part of this, europe must provide the overwhelming share of future lethal and

non-lethal aid to ukraine. >> joining us. >> live from nato headquarters. >> in brussels. >> nbc news international. >> correspondent raf sanchez. >> raf. >> where does this leave ukraine. >> in terms of support from. >> the. >> u.s. and nato? >> well, mika, ukraine really suffering a12 punch at the hands of the trump administration, as you said, president trump speaking to vladimir putin of russia before volodymyr zelensky of ukraine, inviting putin to the white house and not zelenskyy. and this is exactly what the ukrainians did not want. the russians in the ear of the president shaping this conversation before these negotiations have even begun. and then pete hegseth, the new secretary of defense, delivering that second blow here at nato headquarters in brussels. he did not give a forceful statement in support of ukraine. instead, he made a list of things the united states expects ukraine to give

up. as you heard in that sound bite you played, he said. it is not realistic for ukraine to continue trying to recover all of the territory that it has lost to russia. so that is both territory lost since the full scale invasion began back in february 2022, but also areas lost since 2014, including crimea. he also said that ukraine needs to abandon its goal of nato membership as part of these peace negotiations. and i can tell you, mika, there is deep frustration here among the nato allies. you heard the german defense minister saying very bluntly that in his assessment, the trump administration is making concessions to putin before these negotiations have even begun. now, secretary hegseth was asked this morning, is the united states betraying ukraine? he denied that. as you can imagine, he pointed to the billions of dollars in support that the u.s. has given ukraine. we should say that his support that came under the biden

administration, and it is very unclear whether that support is going to continue at this level. in his statement yesterday, hegseth said that going forward, it is the european allies who will be expected to provide the bulk of military support to ukraine. he said the united states is focusing on china and the indo-pacific and on its own borders, and that it is downgrading european security as a priority. so big questions today, mika, especially about some of the specifics of defense programs that ukraine depends on the united states for those f-16s, those patriot missile defense systems. a lot of those questions unanswered right now. >> nbc's raf. >> sanchez, thank. >> you very much. and we'll. be gauging. >> all the reaction to this. >> jonathan. including from our. >> nato allies. >> yeah, in many ways, this phone call yesterday was the beginning of the end of this war. and it ends, certainly a period of isolation for vladimir putin, who had been made a global pariah in the aftermath of the. invasion of ukraine. in

fact, he had not spoken to a u.s. president since the war began. president biden had isolated him, had stopped taking his calls. so this is in itself a win for putin. so is a potential invitation to the united states, maybe even the white house in the years ahead, a summit we remember, of course, what happened in other the other trump putin summit in. helsinki some years ago, looks like we may. >> have a few on. >> the. >> horizon here. this was certainly a significant day here. and as ralph said, one not well received in kyiv, their main goal of achieving. >> nato. >> membership, the u.s. very dismissive of that. that's something, of course, that putin really opposes. trump has not ruled out entirely. continuing to send some. >> aid to kyiv. you know, he said. >> that in the oval office yesterday. but as we saw, the treasury secretary is there. it's going to be much more. conditional now negotiated as part of a deal. and as as secretary of defense hegseth said, you know, the u.s. has made clear they're going to be focusing a lot less on europe. going forward. so, david ignatius, it was also so

striking, first of all, that trump spoke. >> to putin. >> before he. >> spoke. >> to. >> zelensky. >> in his truth social. >> post about that call, he said he would. >> quote, inform. >> zelensky about what he talked about with putin and that their countries negotiators. meaning russia. and the united states, would. begin talking about a peace, would look like seemingly. >> putting ukraine on. >> the sidelines of. >> its. >> own war. now. >> we heard from zelenskyy. >> later in the day saying that. >> his conversation with trump was meaningful. >> a lot of that. >> was spin. but certainly you've written about what a new. >> what a. >> peace could look like, a negotiated. settlement could. >> occur later this year. >> certainly moscow. now thinks it's going to be more along the. lines of what. >> putin wanted than perhaps zelenskyy. >> so. >> jonathan. >> the negotiations. began yesterday. really. >> and the question. >> is whether president trump. >> is going to sell. >> out ukraine. >> which has been. >> valiant in. >> in fighting off russian. >> aggression. >> whether this peace. >> deal will be made over the

heads. >> of the ukrainians. there certainly were some. >> signs that. >> the united. >> states is moving. >> away from ukraine. >> the seth. >> the secretary of defense, was blunt. >> in saying. what everybody's understood. >> but people have rarely said. >> out loud. >> which is. >> that ukraine will have to. >> make territorial. >> concessions as part of a deal. and he. >> was. specific about. >> nato membership not being an outcome. >> of this negotiation. >> again. >> that's been pretty widely understood. there were some. >> things in. >> this speech that i thought were significant positive elements. if you're vladimir zelensky sitting. in kyiv, there was. >> discussion about. >> a security. >> guarantee from, yes, a european. >> force. >> but a. >> fairly robust. >> one with troops from britain, france. the baltic states, a range. >> of. >> powerful european. >> armies would be would be placed. >> there as a tripwire to prevent.

>> russian further russian aggression. >> there'd be a force to. monitor a. line of control. >> it would be. >> from what i could read, something like. >> the armistice. >> that ended. >> the korean war, where there was an armistice. in place. i think. >> the key. >> question as this goes forward is whether. president trump, as he seeks to be the. peacemaker on ukraine. >> will make a. peace that is. >> a just settlement. that ukrainians can say protects. >> their. >> basic interests and allows them to be part of europe, or whether it will be a sellout. it's too early for me, based on the evidence yesterday, to make a judgment as. >> to which it. >> is you use that word just both in the headline of your piece and even here with us now, i think there are concerns that i have heard from many that the goal of peace is admirable, and yet it could be done at the cost of selling out a key u.s. ally. we're going to see what we hear from trump in the next 24 or so hours on this, but we'll definitely get another overture of this story from munich on friday. as secretary of state, rubio and vice president vance

are set to meet with zelensky, what do you imagine that conversation could sound like? >> so. >> ali, i'm. >> leaving for munich. >> today and i. >> hope to at least listen in on. >> the public. >> part. >> of the conversation. >> i think. >> that observers like us have to be very careful in measuring what. is offered to ukraine. >> in. >> terms of protecting it in the future against continued russian aggression. and what is given to putin to satisfy his. >> he thinks ukraine doesn't exist. >> as a real country. >> is he going. >> to is he going to get. >> that fantasy of, of total russian domination of ukraine satisfied in these negotiations? if so, it's. >> an outrageous. >> betrayal of a friend. >> but it may be that there's something. >> more in the middle. this is a terrible conflict. >> the cost of both. >> sides has been just hideous. and as trump says, it is time for this conflict to go into a negotiation phase. >> but i think we all need to.

>> watch very carefully, look. >> at each. >> of the terms. >> and then make a judgment. >> so with that as the. >> backdrop. >> steve rattner, what do you make. >> of the treasury secretary, scott bessent. >> meeting with zelensky? >> and there's. >> this talk now. >> about access. >> to what. >> they have in. >> exchange for. military support. >> yeah. >> look, there's two pieces to this. i think more traditionally, a treasury secretary would go. >> in. there to talk about how do. >> we rebuild this. >> place, how do we get it back. >> to be able. >> to function as a normal country in a small way, like what we did in. >> europe after. world war two? in this. >> administration, trump is also. >> talking about like, how do i get my money back? i got a lot. >> of. >> money over there, so what do i want back? and ukraine has. >> a lot. of natural resources. >> ukraine could. >> be a buyer. >> of things from us. and so they're trying to do an economic deal that not only. helps ukraine, but. >> also helps. >> the us. in a. >> fairly classic. >> trump kind of move. so i'll. >> go ahead. >> and certainly we also should note, just yesterday, the kremlin. rejected an idea

floated by kyiv in terms of swapping some territories. zelensky had said, hey, we'll give you back the land in kursk, across the border in russia that we have seized, you know, in exchange for some of the territory that russia has taken. >> from ukraine. >> moscow said no to that. and also, we should. >> just take a moment. >> again to dwell on the optics of this, the importance of. >> this phone call. >> this if trump were to go to russia, it would be the first time a u.s. president had been there since 2013. putin's last visit to the united states was 2015. and also yesterday, as trump took some questions about his call with putin, what was the setting of that in the oval office for the swearing in of. tulsi gabbard as dni? gabbard, of course, accused by many as one who has has regurgitated kremlin. >> propaganda talking points. >> she tweeted. right after the invasion began in 2022 that it was. ukraine and nato had pushed russia. >> to invade ukraine. >> so certainly yesterday was the best day. >> that moscow. >> has had in this war. >> in quite. >> some time. time? yeah. >> nbc news has also learned. >> that the.

>> trump administration. >> has agreed. >> to send. >> a convicted. >> money launderer. >> back to. >> russia in exchange. >> for the release. >> of american. teacher mark fogel. >> officials say alexander. >> vinnik is in american. >> custody and will be transported to russia by. >> the end of the week. >> he pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit. >> money laundering. >> last year. and to your point, steve. >> as. >> part of. >> the. >> swap. >> has agreed. >> to leave $100. >> million in digital assets. >> behind in the united states. additionally, the white house. >> says belarus. >> has freed. >> three prisoners, including. >> an. american and. >> an employee of a us funded. radio station will. follow that. >> we also. >> have breaking. >> news out of germany. >> where police say. >> a vehicle. >> drove into a crowd. >> and injured at. least 20 people. the incident happened in munich. right now the driver is in police custody. we still don't know a motive, but we learned that a union rally was happening during that time. this

comes ahead of the munich security conference, which is. set to take. place tomorrow. we'll bring you. >> more details as. >> they come. >> and it. >> was just a. >> few weeks ago. >> right. >> before christmas, where a car plowed into a christmas market in a german city later deemed a terror attack. obviously we have we have no sense yet of the details. we'll stay on it, but that will be front of mind for investigators. >> still ahead on morning joe. we'll have the latest. >> on president trump's cabinet nominees. as tulsi gabbard is sworn in as national. >> intelligence director and robert. >> f kennedy jr. is poised. >> to. >> be confirmed. >> as hhs. >> secretary later this morning. >> plus. >> a member of the judiciary committee, democratic. senator richard. blumenthal joins us ahead of the panel's vote. on kash patel's nomination to lead the fbi. but first, disappointing inflation data is raising concerns about the future of interest rates. steve rattner has charts on that. >> and more. you're watching. >> and more. you're watching. >> morning joe. we're back in

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>> fast. >> penetrating relief it all started with a small business idea. it's a pillow with a speaker in it! that's right craig. pulling in the perfect team to get the job done. i'm just here for the internets. at&t, it's super-fast! you locked us out?! and when thrown a curveball... arrggghh! ahhhh! [crashing sounds] we had everything we needed. is the internet out? don't worry, we have at&t internet back-up. the next level network for small business. ♪♪ i sold a pillow! >> prices rose. >> more than. >> anticipated last. >> month, raising. >> questions about the future direction of interest rates. you have charts on this. take it away. >> yeah. >> mika, we've been. >> expecting inflation. >> to continue to kind of moderate. >> ease down. >> provide more. >> room for the federal. >> reserve to cut interest rates and give relief, of course.

>> to. >> consumers as well from rising prices. but last month we. didn't we didn't quite get that it wasn't a disaster. >> but it. >> wasn't what we hoped for. >> consumer prices. actually rose. >> and we look. >> at consumer. >> prices as, you know, two ways. >> one, all. >> of them and. >> the other, when. >> you take. >> out food and energy, what we call. >> core, which. is this blue line. >> right here. >> and core. >> is running now at. >> about 3.3%. it's gone up for four. months in. >> a row. it is. >> the. >> highest it's been in over a year. >> and so. >> the moderating. >> trend that. >> we've. >> seen for so long seems to have abated. for now. >> and this is not lost on consumers. >> and this is very important because what consumers expect actually. >> plays a meaningful role in. >> what actually happens in inflation. and you can see here. consumers were expecting. >> that when they look ahead a. >> year. >> they expected. >> higher inflation. >> and then. they expect. >> that inflation. >> to come down down. >> down. >> down down. >> and look what's happened here. >> consumer expectations for inflation have shot up. and consumers. >> now. >> expect inflation. >> could be as.

>> high as. >> 4.3% over the coming year. >> and again, that. >> has a. >> self-reinforcing quality. >> and so that makes. >> it tougher as well. >> for the fed to bring down inflation. >> so steve, another. thing that impacts. consumers is interest rates. what's the market saying. >> yeah. >> so when you have more inflation. >> it pushes up interest. >> rates because people expect to. >> get a return. >> on their money. >> the federal reserve. >> controls what. >> we. >> call shorter. >> term interest rates. this is the federal reserve's interest rate. and you. >> can see they've cut it a. couple of times. >> but what's. >> also happened. >> is the ten year. >> treasury, the yield on. >> the. >> ten year treasury. >> has gone up. and up and. >> up. here since, really since the election. >> there are really three. >> things in. >> the. >> trump policies. >> that are. >> worrisome. >> inflation for inflation. >> number one, of. >> course. >> are tariffs. we've talked a lot about tariffs. and how they affect. >> prices and. >> can be paid for by consumers. that hasn't taken effect yet. >> but that's a drag. >> on inflation a bad thing for inflation. >> the second. >> thing is immigration. we've

benefited from. >> a lot. >> of workers. >> coming into the workforce, which. >> has kept wage. >> increases down. >> a little bit. >> lower. >> than they might. >> have been and helped provide. economic growth. >> that may be. >> coming to an end. >> and the. >> third thing. >> is that yesterday. >> the house republicans unveiled their. >> budget plan. >> they want to have massive tax cuts. they want to increase the spending and defense spending. and they have. >> some vague. >> ideas about cutting other spending, which they didn't detail. >> but on present. >> course and speed. >> we're going. >> to get a substantial. increase in the deficit out of what's. >> going on in washington. >> and that's. >> inflationary because it makes the. economy grow faster and the. faster it. grows above. >> its potential. >> the more inflation you get. >> so all. >> of that has led the market to predict. >> interest rates. >> to. remain higher for longer. >> if you go. back to even before. >> the election. >> we thought the. >> federal reserve. >> would have the interest in its interest. >> rate down to 3.7%. we're now looking. at basically no more interest cuts this year. >> maybe one cut in december. >> and so interest rates stalling out is not. >> a good thing.

>> for the. economy and especially. >> for mortgage. >> holders, because. >> the. >> 30 year mortgage. >> is stuck up here close to 7%. >> wow. >> okay. >> and finally, i. >> guess the penny. >> is not so lucky. >> costly to make the penny. >> a penny. >> for your thoughts. >> well, it could be lucky to hold because. >> maybe there won't be so. >> many anymore. so in the so interestingly, the. >> cost of. >> making coins has shot up. >> over the years. inflation, the cost of the metals. >> that go into. >> them and so forth. >> and one of the ones that's gone up the most is the penny. >> and it now costs 3.7. >> cents to. >> make every penny. >> so the. >> treasury loses money on. >> every penny. >> it makes. it actually also loses money on the nickel, which. costs 13.8 cents. and it makes some amount. >> of money. >> on. the quarter. >> and the dime. >> and so they've announced and this is long overdue. >> i mean. >> you have to give credit where credit's due. >> the trump administration has actually made. >> a good. policy decision. >> maybe it's the. only one, but. >> they've made one. >> which is to eliminate. >> the penny, save some money.

>> and also. >> consumers don't really use pennies. >> that much. >> as you can. >> see. >> over here. >> they really don't use. >> coins at all anymore. as much anymore. we've all gone electronic. >> and so usage of. >> all. >> these coins, production of all these coins has been going down, down, down. and yeah, when you eliminate the. >> penny. >> the fear is that. stores will will. >> round the prices up instead of down a little bit of extra cost. >> but you know, australia. >> canada, all those other. >> places that. >> we think of as behind us are actually way. >> ahead of us. >> when it comes to eliminating. >> the. >> penny, because they did it years ago. >> all right. let's pull back to the big picture about the economy. steve, i want. >> to get your. >> take on a few editorials. >> the wall. >> street journal. >> editorial board. >> writes this. >> morning about trumponomics and. >> rising inflation. it reads in part this does president trump understand money? >> not money. >> as. in cash, but. >> the. >> supply of money, the price of money as measured by interest rates and. >> their impact on inflation? >> the answer would appear to be

no. after mr. trump. >> called for. >> lower interest rates on wednesday. >> the. >> same day the labor department reported. an increase in inflation for the third straight month. perhaps the president wants the public to. look elsewhere when assigning blame. for rising prices as a political matter, an inflation revival may be the biggest threat to the trump presidency. mr. trump was elected as voters reacted to inflation and falling incomes under joe biden. real average earnings are flat over the last three months as inflation has. >> bounced up. if this. >> persists, mr. trump won't have a 53% job approval rating for long. and then this from. >> republican senator mitch mcconnell. >> he is a piece this morning for the courier courier journal entitled kentuckians can't afford. >> the high. cost of trump's tariffs. >> the former. >> majority leader. writes in. part this. >> quote, no matter our. >> best intentions, tariffs are

bad policy. blanket tariffs make it. more expensive to do business in america, driving up costs for consumers. >> across the board. >> these aren't just abstract concerns. broad based tariffs. >> could have long. >> term consequences, right? >> in our. >> backyard in kentucky, local store owners are already hearing about their suppliers. >> prices going up. >> one estimate suggests the president's tariffs could cost the average kentuckian up to $1,200 each year, preserving the long term prosperity of american industry and workers requires working with our allies, not against them. trade wars with our partners hurt working people most. >> and the president. >> has better tools to protect american workers without forcing our families and businesses to absorb higher costs. steve rattner, i'd love for you to respond to those two editorials. >> and. >> you know, i think it's safe

to say that joe biden left an economy that was moving in the right direction, was it not? >> yeah. >> and this is the interesting, interesting thing. >> for trump. >> joe biden did leave an economy. >> moving in the right direction, but there was still work to do. the deficit is high. inflation is high. real incomes. >> are rising a bit. contrary to what. >> mitch mcconnell. >> said. >> but nonetheless. >> not at. >> a. >> rate that we want. >> and so unlike when trump came. >> in 2016. when we had. >> very. >> very low inflation. >> he's got work to do. and the. >> work. >> as i said. is in conflict with. >> his the policies he's espoused so far. >> particularly particularly. >> the tariffs. >> you know, i need to put. >> a new roof on my house. >> and the guy said to me, you. >> better order. >> these right now, because when those tariffs go into effect, the cost is. >> going to. >> go up 25%. >> of those materials. >> because those shingles. >> all come from canada. so that's what we're looking at. >> but there are a couple of interesting. >> conundrums here because. >> first, trump is. >> an easy money guy. >> real estate. >> guys are easy money guys. >> they like. >> and they need. >> low interest rates to finance

their buildings. >> that's a large. >> part of how. >> they. >> make money. and trump doesn't really understand economic policy and monetary policy. >> and so he. >> thinks the fed should. >> keep. >> interest rates lower. >> he jawbone the. >> fed back during. >> his first term. he has threatened. >> to. >> fire jay powell on many occasions and so forth. and you have that in conflict with with. >> what's. >> going on in. the hill where they're talking about. >> larger budget deficits. >> well, not talking about them. they're talking about. >> cutting. >> the budget deficit. >> but everything they're saying is. >> pointing to. >> larger budget. >> deficits rather than. >> smaller ones. >> and then, as i said. >> earlier, the impact. >> of less immigration on our labor. >> force and what. >> that's going. >> to do to prices. >> so the. >> journal is. >> write, mitch mcconnell is right. the trump administration keeps. >> talking about. >> bringing down prices. he promised during the campaign to bring them down on day one. and now they've got. >> a set. >> of. policies that. actually are certainly not going to. >> make it better. >> and arguably could make it worse. >> morning joe economic analyst steve rattner, thank you. and we didn't get to eggs. jonathan

lemire, which. bird flu and. other reasons happening with the eggs in the bronx? $25 at this point. >> dozen eggs. egg prices skyrocketing. >> in some places. >> my local market hard to find. >> can't even get. >> them there aren't there aren't many on the shelves. so ali vitale two two thoughts for you. first, this is again, this is mitch mcconnell unchained. i suppose. >> you know. >> he has. now once again, he wrote this op ed. attacking trump's tariffs. he also voted against tulsi gabbard for dni, the only. republican to do so. we also know he opposed the pete hegseth nomination, but. >> he's hit on. >> something here. and as steve just mentioned, prices. >> are high. they're not going down. >> and this was donald trump's signature. campaign pledge. >> he promised. >> to bring prices. down to do it quickly. well, it's only. >> been. >> a. >> few weeks. >> we're not judging. him just yet. but if this persists. >> if prices stay. >> high or continue to. >> go higher. >> this does. >> seem to be a. >> bit of a thorny. political problem for him. not much, no matter. >> how much bluster. he provides. >> and blame he casts. >> absolutely. especially because we saw voter after voter

when i was out in the field in september, october, and of course, in the early days of november, covering what mattered to voters, it was the dollars and cents pocketbook issues, the kitchen table issues that were really motivating them at that point. or at least that's one of the things that was leading them to the ballot box. many democrats trying to do the autopsy, saying that maybe kamala harris didn't talk the right way about the economy. of course, it was a central part of many of her tv messages, but we can even just put that aside. mcconnell has two things here that i think are super interesting. the first, of course, is the way that everything he's doing on capitol hill, from hegseth to tulsi gabbard, even this latest op ed, all goes through the lens of america on the world stage and keeping an eye on the way the global community would be reacting to american decisions, whether it's tariffs, which of course will have the impact here at home. but then, of course, the way that these members of the cabinet would ultimately be reflected as, as, you know, emissaries of america on the world stage. and the second thing is he knows how to win

elections. and so he knows the salience of these economic issues. but for you, david ignatius, as a master of the world, stage yourself. when you look at the way that mcconnell is trying to carve his legacy through these actions in the waning in the in, you know, the early weeks of the trump administration, what do you make of how he's doing this? >> so it's. >> painful to say, but but now. that he's not going to run for election again, he's being much. more courageous and straightforward, saying things. >> that we. believed he felt. >> taking positions that. >> would have brought him political risk, that he had he. >> still been. >> in the position of majority leader. >> i think. >> the larger. >> question. >> ali. >> is whether there are. >> other mcconnell's. out there in. >> the republican party. >> there are. >> a lot. >> of things. >> that donald trump is doing in this whirlwind first 100 days. >> that that. >> worry republicans. but they've lost their voice. >> they're frightened. >> and if they. >> stay frightened. >> you know, we have a danger, i think, of policies that will

that will be harmful. steve rattner just ran through a very detailed account of why this this economic policy could go sideways or worse, or republicans are. >> going to. >> speak out. >> about that. >> but but i think, you know, i. >> don't think. >> of. >> mcconnell as, as the canary in the coal mine. exactly. but maybe in this. >> case, he is. >> i know. >> all right. >> the washington post, david ignatius, thank you very much for coming on this morning. always good to see you. and coming up. the acting doj official leading with a potential witch. hunt against prosecutors. and fbi agents who investigated the capitol riot. worked on january 6th. >> cases himself. >> we'll have that new reporting. >> straight ahead on. morning joe.

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>> for a look at. >> some. >> of the other stories making headlines this morning. according to u.s. intelligence, israel is likely to attempt a strike on iran's nuclear program in the coming months, the washington post reports. the preemptive attack would set back tehran's program by weeks or perhaps months. the potential escalation would inflame tensions across the middle east.

in a new test for president trump, who campaigned on restoring peace in the region. we'll be following that. a new study suggests medications to treat obesity may also help people drink less alcohol. that's according to government funded research. the data suggests drugs like ozempic manage cravings not just for food, but also tobacco and alcohol. scientists are studying these drugs. in smokers. people with opioid addiction and cocaine users and officials in los angeles are putting in place evacuation warnings. amid a forecast of heavy rain. downpours are expected throughout tomorrow in some of the same areas that were scorched by the recent wildfires there. the burn zones are now at a high risk of mudslides, and dangerous debris flow will follow that. >> we certainly. >> hope it keeps on coming. >> yeah, certainly hope everyone

out there stays safe. >> yeah. on a. >> lighter note, the city of. >> philadelphia will celebrate the eagles super bowl. >> championship in a. >> victory parade tomorrow. >> but ahead of. >> that, star running. >> back. >> saquon barkley is. >> defending pop star taylor. swift after she was booed at sunday's. >> big game in new orleans. here's what. >> barkley told. howard stern yesterday about. sunday's scene at the superdome. >> they showed her on the jumbotron and she got booed. i don't get it. i don't get why she was getting hate there. >> i didn't. >> like that either. >> yeah, she was just there supporting her significant other. and she's made the game bigger. you know, we're all about how can we expand the game and make it more internationally. and we're traveling to brazil and we're traveling to mexico. and her being a part of it is only helping us. so i don't get the dislike that she's getting. >> ali vitali, you're our resident swifties. we want you to weigh in on this. i think some of. >> this is not. >> up is. depressed. residents with is not necessarily about taylor swift. personally, i think there is a general sense

of chiefs fatigue that has set in. but also let's remember she. >> was. >> booed by eagles fans who. once booed santa claus. they'll boo anybody because, frankly, taylor swift is about as popular as santa claus. >> they'll boo anybody. >> but she's also a pennsylvania girl, has songs where they mention her philadelphia eagles t shirt on the door. so this was also a conflict of interest in some ways for her. ultimately, we saw the way that she went, and you really can't blame her. i mean, ryan is here as my co swiftie for the day, but look, i just want to remind people that it's not cool to hate taylor swift. like, you don't get extra points for this. and if you don't like her, it's not mandatory to be a swiftie. that's totally fine. i'm not looking to recruit people to the cause, but it's pretty great over here. i will say, if you don't like her, you don't have to say anything. so props to saquon barkley. i'm into that. >> it's really hate gets rewarded. on the internet though. that's the thing. but i agree with you ali. all right moving on todd blanche, president trump's nominee to be deputy attorney general, appeared before the senate judiciary committee for.

>> his confirmation. >> hearing yesterday. blanche was the president's criminal defense lawyer. in his new york hush money case, as well as the two criminal cases. >> brought by the justice department. >> blanche used his opening statement to push the narrative that the prosecutions against trump were political, including those launched by the very department he wants to help lead. >> representing president. >> trump was. >> the greatest job i've ever had. i think if i'm. >> confirmed. >> my new job will surpass it. but it was the greatest job i ever had. it was it was an honor and i learned a ton. it opened my eyes for sure to what happens when politics takes the place of justice. and both both you and the ranking member talked about this, and i couldn't agree more that politics should never play a part in the department of justice. and i saw with my own eyes in manhattan with with the manhattan case. i saw it in the georgia case. i saw it in both

jack smith's prosecutions. i saw it. in elected officials trying to keep president trump off the ballot. it opened my eyes to something that i hadn't seen when i was just a prosecutor in new york trying to put gang members in jail. >> all right. >> meanwhile. >> democrats on the committee grilled blanche about the potential conflict of interest that. could arise in light of his former job representing the president. take a look. >> would you agree that it would be a blatant conflict of interest as his criminal defense lawyer, as someone who has a continuing legal obligation to him as a former client, for you to participate in any of the work of that group as it pertains to the january 6th case that you represented him, or the mar-a-lago case where you represent him, or alvin bragg's office where you represent him, you would agree that that would be a very blatant conflict of interest. >> i don't. >> know, i don't necessarily agree with that. >> there will be.

>> a conflict of interest potentially, but i quibble with the word blatant. >> i find it remarkable that you feel there's any world in which you could somehow participate in an investigation of people where you represented the president. >> in. >> that. same investigation. >> lawmakers on both sides of the aisle also questioned blanche on recent changes at the doj, including the string of firings at the fbi and president trump's blanket pardon of january 6th rioters. >> it would never hold. >> it against a public defender that. they were defending in the court of law. >> a person who was accused of a serious crime. right, i would not right. and my view on the fbi is. >> it's the same thing. >> if an. >> fbi agent, i'm a worker there, and i get assigned to a case by. my boss, is there. >> any reason. >> in the world that i should. pay a price because i did my job as assigned? >> i know, and i don't think that that's what's happening. as

a future member of the doj, what would. >> be your position. >> on anybody who does violence against police officers in the past or in. >> the future? >> they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. and do you agree with me that anybody who was convicted or pled guilty pleaded guilty to violence. >> against a police. >> officer owes a formal written apology to whoever they hurt in the process? that is something i would think they should certainly consider doing. a vote on blanche's nomination has not been scheduled, but could come as soon as next week. meanwhile, as president trump's department of justice works to identify all fbi agents and employees who worked on the sprawling investigation into the january 6th attack on the capitol, new reporting reveals. the doj official behind that order. acting deputy attorney general amal beauvais, once helped track

down rioters himself back in 2021, the months following the insurrection, beauvais assisted in the search for rioters as a manhattan federal prosecutor. who. joining us now with more on that reporting, ryan riley, he covers the justice department and federal law enforcement for nbc news. ryan, what more do you know about this? and what do you make of this change of heart he might be having? >> yeah. >> you know, i mean, you know, even for someone. >> who worked. >> in the southern district of new york, which is sort of a notoriously hard. charging district, sometimes jokingly. referred to as the sovereign district of new york for its independence from the justice department. the suggestion that s.d.n.y. should have taken over the investigation of an attack on the u.s. capitol. >> in. >> d.c. was a pretty bold move, but that's what he was proposing here. you know, some of the criticism that we've seen in the years since is that the notion that essentially, prosecutors in these cases saw this as a way to

sort of build their career? they saw this. i've heard the line used that of the equivalent of their of their nine over 11, right, that these were they knew this was going to be this major national security case, but this was this major attack on the capitol that resulted in multiple deaths that resulted in severe injuries to police officers. it was an act of domestic terrorism as adjudicated in these certain cases. that's a that's a high bar in a lot of these. and often it's on the back end in sentencing. but this is what you know, you saw prosecutors going for is sentencing enhancements for domestic terrorism. and so the his involvement here is fascinating. it's angered a lot of people within the justice department who worked these cases, who are career officials who were assigned to these cases. and i think the divide that you've seen within the fbi, there's been a lot of backlash from within the fbi, which, once again, i'll say it for the millionth time, is a conservative leaning law enforcement organization about this targeting of fbi employees as well as probationary employees. >> you know. >> if that probationary if they end up going after these

individuals at the fbi who are on probation, which means they've been there for less than two years and they have fewer civil service protections than than fbi agents who have been there for longer. that is going to destroy the pipeline of fbi employees for years, and that will make it much more difficult for the fbi to recruit. >> we talked on our show about that pipeline concern. and then in your story about bovie, it sort of sums it up as the call is coming from inside the house when it comes to him. but i want to stay on this idea of prosecutors across the country, u.s. attorneys, because you reported overnight that some of them got their walking papers, and that's not abnormal for a new administration to come in and sort of tell the u.s. attorneys that exist. all right, time to go. but what's not normal about the way that this one went? >> it's coming from the white house. i mean, the origin of this is different, right? because if you look back to trump at 1.0, the first term, what you had is then attorney general jeff sessions, who we all know how that story ends. but he wrote these letters to the biden appoint, or rather, the obama appointed u.s.

attorneys and just that narrow category saying, hey, you know, requesting a resignation. so that's that was sort of how they did it first term. then when biden took office, he sent a letter. it was rather his administration, his within the justice department, asked people to resign. by a certain point, it was a three week lead time. so there was a natural transition. so it was sort of wind down. it wasn't pack up your desk. you're out today. this was sort of this natural wind down transition of those trump appointed u.s. attorneys. so this is a major departure. and also i think the rubber is going to hit the road here on some of the court appointed u.s. attorneys, because, of course, people who are appointed by obama knew they were going to be out at some point. but when you're talking about court appointed u.s. attorneys, that's a whole different thing. and especially term and immediate term term termination notices coming from the white house is the oddity here. >> nbc's brian riley, thank you so much. his book, sedition hunters how january 6th broke the justice system. it's out now. still ahead, amid all that is going on in washington, congress needs to figure out how to avoid a shutdown. we'll speak

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prices are soaring to record highs this morning, as farmers are forced to take new measures to protect their chickens from rapidly spreading cases. of bird flu. nbc news correspondent erin mclaughlin has the latest. >> wagonwheel farm in upstate new york. farmer jason tao knows his eggs are expensive. >> i never. >> thought. >> i'd see the day where a dozen eggs cost more than a bale of hay. >> the five and a half dollars he charged for a dozen. >> back in may. >> became $7. >> in october. and now it's $8. >> a dozen. kao says he has no choice but to pass along. >> the cost. >> to protecting. >> his flock. >> of 500 chickens. across the country. more than 21 million. >> chickens died due to bird

flu. >> since december. just weeks. >> ago, it was. >> found on a. >> chicken farm. >> a county away from wagon wheel. >> and so. >> tao is ramping. >> up. >> security, sanitizing. >> footwear, sporting. >> gloves and installing roofs. >> over his coops. >> we're always watching for it. >> so far, so good. >> so far. >> so good. >> there's the goal. >> to protect. >> his farm from wild birds. known carriers of. >> the virus. >> there's any. wild birds. >> that land. >> on top. >> they're not. >> going to cross contaminate with any. droppings down into the chicken runs. >> he spent thousands. >> on biosecurity. >> the cost passed. >> along to his consumers. >> tao says the main price for his eggs. >> replacing older hens that. >> no longer lay profitably. >> those costs have skyrocketed. and for americans struggling with. >> inflation, fatigue, the doubling. >> of egg prices. >> is an added shock. >> i don't get it. >> and i can't. >> afford it. >> so i. >> eat a lot less. >> and pay a little more.

>> and that's when people can even find eggs. retailers trader joe's and. costco now limiting how many eggs a customer can buy. meanwhile. >> back at wagonwheel farm, do you worry you're going to. >> have to charge even more if this keeps going? >> that's already on the horizon. >> chicken farms across the u.s. >> they're scrambling to keep the bird flu at bay while bracing for the cost of eggs to climb. >> even higher. >> all right. that was nbc's erin mclaughlin reporting. it is just about the top of the hour right now. on this thursday, february 13th. jonathan lemire, ali vitali, still with us. and joining the conversation, we have nbc news senior executive editor for national security david rohde joins us this morning. our top story this morning, the senate judiciary committee will vote this morning on patel's nomination to lead the fbi. patel will likely move out of committee on a party line vote during the panel's 9 a.m.

meeting. senators are scheduled to speak before the vote is held. if patel gets necessary the necessary votes, it would tee up a full senate vote to confirm him by next week. this comes just days after the panel's ranking member, democratic senator dick durbin, sent a letter to the doj inspector general alleging patel may have directed the recent purge of fbi officials before being confirmed to lead the agency. in the letter, durbin details accusations from multiple sources and says if they are true, patel would have perjured himself during his confirmation hearing last month. but republicans seem unfazed by the new allegations. committee chairman chuck grassley of iowa posted his response on social media earlier this week, calling durbin's letter, quote, nothing more than hearsay and don't hold a candle to patel's character and credibility. so jonathan

lemire will be watching this live in the 9:00 hour. we'll dip in. >> yeah, we've a busy day. >> on capitol hill. >> because also, just hours from now, robert f kennedy jr will face a full senate vote to become the nation's health secretary. this, of course. comes after the senate voted. >> along party. >> lines to advance his. nomination and now sets the stage for a final. confirmation vote. >> this morning. >> last night, a group of democrats pulled an all nighter on the senate floor protesting kennedy's nomination. the lawmakers delivered speeches highlighting his. >> debunked claims on vaccines, his views on. >> abortion and threats. >> they say he poses. >> to health care programs such as medicaid. despite some republican. skepticism about his stance on vaccines, robert. >> f kennedy. >> jr is set to. >> win confirmation. >> absent any last minute surprise. changes and most of. >> the republicans. >> who might have. >> broken with the party.

>> over kennedy. >> have since. >> pledged to support him. >> mika and tulsi gabbard was confirmed as the director of national intelligence yesterday, later sworn in by attorney general pam bondi. inside the oval office, the new dni was confirmed 52 to 48 in the senate, with senator mitch mcconnell of kentucky joining democrats in voting against her nomination. in a statement explaining his opposition, mcconnell writes, quote, entrusting the coordination of the intelligence community to someone who struggles to acknowledge these facts is an unnecessary risk. so is empowering a dni who only acknowledged the value of critical intelligence collection authorities when her nomination appeared to be in jeopardy. the nation should not have to worry that the intelligence assessments the president receives are tainted by a director of national intelligence with a history of

alarming lapses in judgment. the wall street journal editorial board is reacting as well to the confirmations in a piece. entitled trump gets the cabinet he wants, and it reads in part this. republicans seem poised to confirm all of president trump's cabinet nominees, even those who favor policies. most gop senators oppose. this is an impressive display of maga political muscle. but now the president and the party will have to live with them. good luck. miss gabbard's performance will be hard to track because as dni, she will be by necessity, operate largely in secret. she has an isolationist streak and a soft spot for vladimir putin's russia. it's hard to believe robert f kennedy jr will run health and human services, given his left wing views. now the country will get an hhs chief who won't say if the mmr vaccine

causes autism, despite mountains of evidence that it does not. promising disruption is easy. the test of a cabinet is whether it delivers results. our guest for the first one to muster out is rfk jr. so a lot of controversy over these cabinet picks. joining us now, democratic senator richard blumenthal of connecticut. he's a member of the homeland security, armed services and judiciary committees. so we're watching what's happening on capitol hill today. which cabinet pick are you most concerned about, senator? >> i think. >> i'm most concerned. about tulsi gabbard, but it's really a pretty close second. >> in robert. kennedy jr. >> they both failed to recognize the facts. >> and robert. >> kennedy jr. poses a real threat to our public health. >> tulsi gabbard. >> to our. national security. we're voting today on a nominee

for. fbi director kash patel, who wants to turn the fbi, apparently into a sycophantic goon squad rather than. the independent, impartial. >> objective law enforcement agency. >> it ought to be as an enemies list, which he calls government gangsters. and he's on a manhunt for them. and so we're all at risk as a result of this kind of skewed, distorted. approach to law enforcement and the recent revelations shunned by my republican colleagues. >> show that. >> he is covertly and personally directing or involved in directing the mass purge of fbi leadership. and professional civil servants. he testified, in response to my questions, that there would never be retribution, that there would. >> never. >> be these kinds of political firings. and what is happening now. according to these whistleblowers, they're not secondhand hearsay. as senator grassley has said, they are

credible whistleblowers who are coming to us with what they have heard. >> so, senator, i'm curious. i know these are very divisive times, but these cabinet picks, a lot of them have some very legitimate questions, and they have said things that are, i think, very clearly concerning and in some cases, disturbing. is there any interaction with your republican counterparts, and if so, what do they say when you ask about these things? >> mitch mcconnell, breaking yesterday with his. >> republican colleagues. >> telling the truth to power, indicates that maybe the trump cult, the intimidation and threats can be broken. our tools are limited. we're in the minority. they control, obviously, both houses of congress and the white. >> house, and. >> indirectly, the united states supreme court. but we're taking the fight to republicans in the halls of congress in rallies.

we're going to have a rally today at the veterans administration, which i'm leading as the ranking member on the veterans affairs committee. we are having town halls, as i did just last sunday in saturday in our state. so we're using the public pressure that can be effective, as we saw with the funding freeze, where that kind of pressure showing the impacts on community health. >> centers and head. >> start and medicare and medicaid grants actually moved republicans and led to the administration backing off. so i think there is hope, but i'm very clear eyed that our tools are limited, and we need to really galvanize a citizens movement here that will bring pressure to bear on republican colleagues. >> senator blumenthal, good morning. let's zero in on the on the kash patel nomination, please. there's obviously been a lot of upheaval at the fbi, at the department of justice, some firings of the staffers who were

involved in the cases surrounding donald trump. >> and now, as. >> you know, also a call to identify. any agent who had anything to do with a january 6th case. mr. patel has denied involvement. there has been. >> some reporting. >> to suggest otherwise. >> what are your. >> views on this? what are some questions that he needs to answer? >> well, he has answered them arguably incorrectly, maybe even falsely. and i think we need another hearing with kash patel to give him the chance to answer these allegations, because they are really completely disqualifying the fact that he has been involved, reportedly, in covertly directing a purge within the fbi when he said there would not be one. you know, he has glorified the january 6th rioters, calling them political prisoners and aiding them. he has that enemies list. he calls it government

gangsters. it's deeply frightening to have a potential director of this investigative agency using it and weaponizing it for political purposes, when that agency is also responsible for investigating terrorism, drug cartels, real threats to our national security and our personal safety. he's unqualified and unprepared. he lacks the character and competence to do this job, and to have the credibility and trust of the american people. so there are a lot of questions that he still has to answer. but my republican colleagues are apparently going to proceed with the record as it is now, even though he actually refused to tell us what he testified. the grand jury after he took the fifth amendment and was granted immunity. we still lack the facts, and i'm deeply regretful that we're going to apparently confirm he's on track to be confirmed. a man who has these

really disqualifying factors. >> senator, the question in all of these confirmation hearings, whether it was hegseth or patel, who's actually potentially an early embodiment of this dissonance, is are you the person who's sitting in front of me testifying in these confirmation hearings, or are you the version of yourself that you've been for weeks, months, and years prior? patel not yet confirmed, but we're watching that dissonance point potentially unfold now. but there are other members of the cabinet that are confirmed and are in their capacities pam bondi, pete hegseth. which version of them did we ultimately get? >> you know, were you lying then or are you lying now? >> it was. >> the central is the classic question i've asked on cross-examination. and that's the question for these nominees. robert f kennedy jr has said that, for example, women's reproductive freedom is a minor issue that he's waffled on. he has taken anti-vaccine positions well known now, which he has tried to walk back. kash patel has tried to disavow his support

for those january 6th rioters who assaulted police officers. he is in charge of a law enforcement agency that will have to use the services of local police officers after he has apparently condoned those kinds of assault. and so i think they completely lack credibility. tulsi gabbard has tried to walk back some of her statements. same with exact. and i think the american people deserve a lot better. >> all right. >> democratic senator. >> richard blumenthal of connecticut, on this your birthday. happy birthday. >> thank you. >> very much. >> yeah. great to have you on the show, as always. thank you. senator. david rhode, your thoughts on what we're going to be watching today? there will be, i guess, you know, a lot of senators speaking out in some of these committee hearings, but these all seem slated to go

through. >> it's concerning, particularly. >> the patel thing. >> so the. >> allegation that was made at. >> patel was. >> that the. >> day before he testified under oath. >> at the senate. >> confirmation hearing, there were. >> notes being sent. >> there were at the time. that essentially patel. >> was calling. >> stephen miller. >> in the white house. >> stephen miller was then calling emil. >> bove, the acting deputy attorney general. >> and emil bove. >> was then. >> pushing the. >> fbi to oust eight senior officials. >> several of them. had played major. >> roles in the trump investigations. and then the next day. under oath, patel is asked about this. he says, i have no idea of any kind of retaliation that's going to happen. and as senator blumenthal noted, he stated flat out there will know there will be. no political retaliation or retribution. >> so correct me if i'm wrong. haven't we seen cabinet nominees say that and then get through and then immediately begin working on retaliation? if i am correct, who?

>> multiple people. >> i mean, we could. >> let's do it. >> democrats have criticized supreme court justices who say they're going to uphold roe, and then that doesn't happen. the unusual thing here is that the. >> day. >> before he's testifying under oath, he's doing this. he's planning retribution, according to these whistleblowers. >> and then under. >> oath, he may have perjured himself. >> and so that's. >> what's so unusual. it's not that they wait and then do the retribution. it was actually. underway before he denied it was happening under oath. >> and it's. >> again, sort of a use of a cutout. it's a stephen miller in the white house. he speaks to him directly. then it's stephen miller pressuring, you know, an acting official in the justice department. and it's really created a climate of fear inside. >> the doj. >> you had. >> todd blanche, who will become the number. >> two official testifying yesterday, as you were talking about earlier, saying. >> there isn't. >> this atmosphere. >> of retribution, but that's just not true according to fbi agents we've been speaking to. >> well, and that's what i was pointing to, jonathan lemire. i mean, there seems to be an atmosphere of retribution, and

we've seen that in nominees that have already gone through. and then some of the first acts in office are retribution. >> donald trump promised that retribution would be central to his presidency were he to win again. and he is following through. >> and many. >> believe kash patel will be the chief agent for that. and another example, attorney general pam bondi, who held her first news conference yesterday where she announced that the trump administration was. taking action against the state of new york. >> we're here today because we have filed charges against the state of new york. we have filed charges against kathy hochul. we have filed charges against letitia james and mark schroeder, who is with dmv. >> but that's a bit misleading. the charges that bondi mentioned there is actually the trump administration suing the. >> state of new. >> york and those officials. over policies regarding undocumented migrants. >> and at the time of the. >> news conference, that lawsuit had not actually yet been.

>> filed in new york. >> bondi specifically. pointed to new york's green light law, which allows. people to get a driver's. license regardless of citizenship or legal status. later, she was asked to clarify her statement about charges for new york officials. >> if you. >> don't comply. >> with federal. >> law, we. will hold you accountable. we did it to illinois. strike one. strike two is new york. and if you are a. >> state not. >> complying with federal law, you're next. get ready. >> right now we're just lawsuits. is this going to go further? what kind of punishment are we talking about? >> we have sued them all. >> we've personally sued. >> the governor, the attorney general, letitia james, and mark schroeder with the dmv first. >> as a side note, we remember during the campaign, so many. >> republicans and conservative. >> media commentators refused to say the vice president's first name correctly. they did that a lot with the attorney general, too. it's letitia james, and that's something that we hear all the time from those in trump world. but setting that aside, david, what do you make of this?

there are lawsuits. they're not charges, but it is certainly a shot across the bow at minimum from the federal government to the states. >> it's a. >> it's the weaponization. >> of the. >> justice department. and i know republicans. >> say that. what's going. >> on under. >> under biden. but these are criminal charges. >> against these individuals. this has been a dispute for years with the. state of new york. >> and what's amazing is. >> that pam. >> bondi is saying. >> all this days after. >> ordering that. >> the. >> charges against mayor. >> adams be dropped. >> that those are completely meritless. >> and that's a. that was a very you know, that was. >> a powerful case put together. >> by the southern district of new york. it's very interesting. we're watching still to see if. those charges are formally dropped by the southern district of new york. that hasn't happened yet. >> and there. >> could be career prosecutors, you know, who are, you know, could resign. we don't know. there's no speculate. >> i don't want to speculate. >> but that was a very. >> strong case. and if you are. >> again. >> loyal to donald trump. >> mayor adams went to the inauguration. >> you get.

>> your federal charges dropped and then you're, you know, you're. >> attacked. >> if you're not a supporter of the president. and as a side note, on mayor adams, federal charges dropped sort of conditionally. >> because they've. >> left the door open to bringing them back. if he does not uphold and enforce the trump agenda, particularly on immigration. >> all not shocking, but still pretty incredible. nbc's david rohde, thank you very much. he's the author of the book where tyranny begins. the justice department, the fbi, and the war on democracy. thank you. david. ali. vitali. >> big day in washington. mika, as always, because house republicans unveiled their budget resolution as the trump administration looks for spending cuts in the federal government. the budget blueprint calls for a $4.5 trillion tax cut, while also raising the debt limit by $4 trillion. democrats republicans say the goal of the current resolution is to reduce mandatory spending by 2 trillion. the plan, however, would grant the judiciary and

homeland security committees 110,000,000,090 billion, respectively. both committees oversee immigration policy. now, the house budget committee will hold a markup on its plan at 10 a.m. this morning. that meeting comes as senate budget, the senate budget committee voted on its own version of the bill out of committee yesterday. and despite house speaker mike johnson's repeated insistence that the lower chamber take the lead in the process, we saw the senate go right ahead. congress, of course, has until march 14th to also approve legislation to fund the government. joining us now, republican congressman tim moore of north carolina. he's a member of the budget and financial services committee. thanks for joining us. before a big day, a big vote. we laid out some of the parameters of what you guys are trying to do here within this budget legislation. but i think the most obvious question to start with is, do you have the votes to even get it out of committee this morning? >> we feel. very solid. >> first of all. >> about the votes. >> chairman jodey arrington has. >> done an amazing. job working within. >> the committee. speaker johnson. >> has really. >> done an excellent. job in trying. >> to bring together. all the. >> various opinions.

>> that are. there to really come up with something that will. >> bring consensus, and this. budget does that. >> this budget. >> is going. >> to do a lot of great things. >> by finally getting. >> a handle on runaway. >> spending. >> this national. >> debt right now that's. >> out of control. >> did you. realize our national. >> debt. >> the interest on. >> it is higher. >> than. >> our entire. defense budget. it's posing a serious. >> danger to. >> to our nation's security. >> and so we've got a great. >> plan of reducing. >> taxes and at the same time. >> cutting wasteful spending. >> particularly to bring things in line. >> there are a lot of concerns about the ballooning national debt, including from some republican members on this committee who have said, okay, we see the $2 trillion you're trying to cut. some estimates say it might also might be closer to 1.5 trillion, a big number. but for some members, like chip roy, they say that's not enough, especially when on top of it, you want to do $4.5 trillion in tax cuts, which will also continue to balloon the deficit. so how do you get those members on board? >> well, for. >> one. >> you. >> know. >> we did not get. >> here as a country overnight.

>> and it cannot. >> be fixed overnight. >> which is why, of course. >> we. had to. >> address the debt ceiling immediately. >> but if. >> we apply these these approaches. >> of again, when it comes. >> to the tax cuts. >> when. these tax cuts. >> were adopted in. >> 2017. >> now they. >> actually produced. >> a trillion. >> more in. >> revenue than originally projected. >> i believe, as. >> a fiscal conservative, that. >> by cutting. >> taxes. >> by keeping taxes low, you. >> spur economic. >> activity which. >> will. >> help the economy. >> move along and thereby. actually result in increased revenue. we did it in our state legislature. >> we showed it. >> work, and there's no. >> reason that it. >> can't work at the federal level. >> so for viewers who are not ensconced in how congress works and moves through these things, when we talk about the tax cut proposal that republicans are going to try to move on a key priority of the trump administration, this is really the precursor to that. it's the budget committee basically doling out assignments to all these other committees, some of them to cut spending, some of them in the instance of border security, giving them more money towards that. and then, of course, empowering the ways and means committee to do those up to 4.4. 5 trillion in tax cuts.

i do think that if we zero in on one piece of this, you and i were talking about how there's so much in this proposal. the debt ceiling piece is something that the president has voiced concerns about. that debt ceiling limit will probably hit sometime in the spring. so there is a time clock on this, but why raise it as opposed to abolishing it? both ideas have been in the ether. >> i think. >> it makes more sense. >> frankly, to raise. >> it, but to give it there where. >> it has. >> time for us. >> to work through the. >> process, we. do need to be very concerned about the debt ceiling. so my preference would be to raise it. there's other discussions about. abolishing it. regardless, we. >> just have. >> to get this fiscal house in order. >> we've seen these last. >> four years where spending has. >> just. >> spiraled out of control. some of your earlier stories have talked about some. >> of. >> the. >> inflationary impacts that people are having. all this. >> is adding to it. >> one other thing that this budget bill will also do. >> is it's going. >> to spur. >> energy independence. >> for the united states. if we can. exploit and provide more. >> energy. >> the resources that we have,

that's going to do a lot to lower inflation. >> and. >> to really turn our economy around. >> all of those. things working together are going to ultimately. >> be the key. >> to. >> us. >> getting this. >> budget house. >> in order. >> it's a big day in the budget committee. we will watch those votes. at 10 a.m. republican congressman tim moore of north carolina, thank you for joining us here in the studio. mika, i'll send it right back to you. >> all right. thank you. ali. let's bring in democratic congressman brendan boyle of pennsylvania. he's the ranking member of the house budget committee and also a member of the house ways and means committee. good to have you on. so you say the republican plan betrays the middle class. tell us how. and we just heard from your republican counterpart from north carolina who says the votes are there. are you seeing the votes he's seeing? >> well. good to be. >> with you, mika. and, you. >> know. we just had. >> a very long presidential. campaign in which donald trump and other republicans kept talking. about how once they were in charge, their number. >> one priority.

>> would be to lower prices and make life. >> more. >> affordable for most. >> american families. well. >> here. >> is this very large. budget blueprint, and there is absolutely. >> nothing in. >> there whatsoever that will reduce. >> costs for families. >> but what is. there is. >> $4.5 trillion. >> of new. >> tax cuts, the. >> overwhelming majority. >> of. >> which go to the richest. >> 1%. mostly billionaires. >> and elite corporations. >> in addition, as you can see. >> for the. >> crowd that always cries crocodile. tears about. >> the. >> size of our national debt. they are adding $4. >> trillion. to our national debt in. >> order to finance some of. >> the tax cuts, and then to. make up the rest of the money. they're cutting. medicaid by. >> $880 billion. so when. >> i say this is a betrayal. >> of the american middle. >> class, the facts. >> clearly support it. >> congressman boyle. good morning, jonathan lemire. let's get you to go a little further on that, that this. >> the tax. >> cut is potentially being

passed against the backdrop of all of this government slashing that. we're seeing elon musk. and his doge. >> team conduct. >> including some. >> programs that. >> will hurt all americans. >> not just those who live in blue states. >> but including those who live. >> in battlegrounds like yours. that, of course, went for donald trump this past election. talk to us about the impact there and that juxtaposition of. >> the cutting and. >> the tax. the government's cutting and the tax cut. >> yeah. >> you know, jonathan, i'll give you one concrete example. >> the philadelphia. metro area. benefits by more. >> than. $1 billion. >> in nih. research grants. >> penn and the other. universities in and around philadelphia. >> do amazing. >> research, literally. >> saving lives. >> but also, that's. >> an important part. >> of our meds and eds economy. well. >> here come elon. musk and his. >> doge bros acting. >> completely illegally.

>> shutting down research. >> that has already. >> been appropriated by congress that will have a. >> real effect. >> on the local economy and the district that i represent. and what, of course, is the biggest swing state. >> in the. united states. >> and that's just one of many examples. >> all right. democratic congressman brendan boyle of pennsylvania, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we'll be watching this as well as many other things coming up. our next guest will break down the lessons democrats really need to learn right now ahead of the midterms and the 2028 presidential election. plus, we'll speak with author robert robert kaplan about his new book, wasteland, which explores a world in constant crisis and how we got here. also ahead, president and ceo of the naacp derrick johnson will join the conversation as the organization celebrates its 116th anniversary. morning joe will be right back.

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real value from your life insurance when you need it with abacus. >> half past the hour. live. look at the white house as democrats continue to assess what went wrong for them in the 2024 elections. the march issue of the new republic is analyzing the hard road ahead for the party. let's bring in the editor of the new republic, michael

tomasky. his piece in the new issue, which is posted online today, is titled three big lessons for the democrats. and we want to hear what those are. also with us, the president and ceo of the naacp, derrick johnson, and the co-founder and ceo of all in together, lauren leder. it's good to have all of you on board this hour. so, michael, let's start with your piece and the three big lessons. and i want to ask what those lessons are. but are those lessons applicable to the environment that we are going to be in in the weeks and months ahead? >> i think. >> they are. i think the democrats have to make them applicable because this is these are the questions that i think they need to ask. look, i say in the piece. >> mika. >> you know, this isn't. 1989 all over again. they haven't had three candidates. lose landslides in a row. they lost one election by a. >> point and. >> a half. nevertheless, they lost. that's not winning. so

they do have to ask. >> some questions. >> my three prescriptive points have to do with the economy, with the way they deal with cultural politics at presidential election time, and third, with the way their. >> brand has been. >> quite frankly, destroyed in large swaths of the. country where they used to be able to get votes and elect senators. >> and can't anymore. >> so those are. >> the main points. >> you also have really interesting analysis on the ad that a lot of people really heard. kamala harris's chances in this past election, and it was the ad where she's answering the question about transgender surgeries. can you tell us about the. this was the conversation she had with a reporter back in 2019. can you give her give us larger context of that conversation and what you found out? >> sure. not a reporter, a leader of a of an important

transgender organization. her name is mara. mara keisling. >> in 2019. >> she interviewed. >> all of the major. >> democratic contenders. you remember, there were quite a lot. >> of them at the time. and that's the interview. >> it's about a six minute interview. it's not that. long from which the trump. campaign picked that clip. that showed harris. >> saying, you know. >> she did what she did for the. >> sake of the movement and the. agenda and so on. >> i interviewed mara about this in december. i found her to be very forthright. and absolutely correct. i think she chafed a little bit at the perception. that she may have goaded harris. >> into saying those. >> things that she said about getting the state of california. >> to. >> change its policy on. >> gender affirming surgery. for transgender patients. or prisoners. >> she didn't do that at all. i watched the video. anybody can watch the video. the only question mark. kiesling asked i,

why should transgender people vote for you? and harris went on this whole long thing. so that's one. interesting thing that she said. >> another interesting thing. >> that she said. >> to me. >> is that she really does think that progressive groups, not just lgbt, lgbtq groups, but all sorts of progressive. >> groups. >> need to change the way they think about how they do politics at presidential election time, that it's probably not the best idea to try to. >> pin people. >> down to a bunch of litmus. test positions that can potentially be used against them in a general election. >> campaign. >> as indeed some of harris's. 2019 primary era positions were. so she had a lot of interesting things to say that i think are worth listening to. >> lauren, later, i just want to get you to chime in on this as democrats move forward, because there's so many challenges now for communities that are feeling the heat. di being, you know, wiped clean from many agencies

and even companies. how should i mean, do you agree with michael that this maybe it's for another day, or how do you manage through these issues? >> you know, i think one of the lessons which i was going to ask michael about that we took away from this election, when you think about the senate races, i mean, you referenced michael, the senate races, but what we saw was a huge gap between voters who voted for democratic senators in michigan, for instance, and elsewhere, and then didn't vote for kamala harris. and i think there's some very interesting lessons there, potentially, for why some of those democrats, especially in the rust belt states, broke through, won their races even as the national candidate didn't. so what do you take away from that? i'm not sure. they were. you know, they did some dramatically different strategy in terms of dealing with social issues. they certainly talked about abortion rights. they talked about, you know, sort of an inclusive view of america. but somehow kamala got tarred with those social issues in. >> a. >> very different way than the

senate candidates did. >> she did. you know, a lot of it did have to do with that ad. and look, i want to be clear here, you know, transgender people are under assault right now in the united states. undocumented people are under assault right now in the united states. these groups do really important work most of the time, and they should be supported, and democrats should support the work they do. it's just this. one thing i'm talking about at presidential election time with respect to kamala, i think it was just that she wasn't as well known, and she was only the candidate for 107 days, and she didn't have a chance to make a full picture of herself in the way that some of these senate candidates did. and they were known in their states. and harris wasn't. >> so derrick johnson, naacp, celebrating 116 years. the campaign moving forward is keep advancing. can you talk about that, especially given the backdrop that is happening right

now? >> well, we were. >> created in. >> 1909, and our primary goal. was to make democracy work. >> and going to the last conversation, if you think about angela alsobrooks, if you think about lisa blunt, rochester, they had state races and they talked to their voters. the kamala harris campaign, 107 days, they tried to have a national campaign that was not rooted in local communities. so that's why you see the gap between the turnout and the outcome for those races compared to the presidential race, the business model of campaigning for the democratic party is broken. it has been broken for a while. we've seen it in 2016, we had a lightning rod of a first trump administration that turned out voters in 2020, and then they went back to the same model in 2016 and we got the same outcome. so the party needs to really look at the business model of how they do campaigns for the national candidates and focus more locally to talk to voters where they live. >> so, derrick, let's talk about this moment right now. you know,

we're not at a campaign season just yet. it does seem that i've spoken to some democrats who feel sort of frustrated that their party doesn't hasn't really coalesced around a message or found a leading voice or two. and it's also striking, sort of the lack of protests, let's say, this time around, as opposed to what we saw eight years ago when donald trump was first inaugurated. what do you make of that? how should the party be. >> adapting to this moment. >> this first. >> few weeks of the trump administration, as he's. unleashed this blitz of proposals and cuts? >> well, we are, what, 24 days since the election and naomi klein's book shock doctrine really lays out the strategy of throwing so many things on the board that it almost paralyzed the opposition. and then you go to the real focus of the budget and the tax cuts. so much of what we've seen are the distractions or how to distort and paralyze the opposition so they can run a play of really stealing the wealth of americans in front of their eyes. >> i do. >> think, michael, that as we

talk about the back and forth for democrats as they try to rebuild in this moment, i take your point that you're saying maybe don't tinker with the economic message that much. it was only a point and a half loss, but it's the idea of brand, which feels so intangible to me. how do you fix the cultural affiliation and affinity that republican voters now feel with trump himself? because i think lauren is right to point out the dissonance between how trump himself did, and then how the maga endorsed candidates did further down ballot. but for democrats, how do you fix an intangible like brand? >> yeah. >> that's a vibe. >> yeah, that's that's a central question to this whole thing. and there are there are limitations on what the democrats can do. you know, there are cultural issues that appeal to working class people. there's only so far democrats. can and should. >> go. >> you know, they shouldn't give up their support for the rights for transgender people. they shouldn't. >> you know. >> change their position on abortion rights. they can talk in a way that reaches working class, regular. people a little

bit. more as their base has become more college educated. they're like talking college people to college people. you know, that's just one. simple thing. just change your language. >> a little bit. >> talk to people who don't have college degrees. i have a little section in the piece. you know, the democrats talk a lot about college loans and college loans. college debt is a real issue. but i always wonder, you know, what does the hvac specialist think when he hears democrats carry on about that? you know, it's not about him. so talk to him, too. you know, there are things that they can do that doesn't require bending their positions on other issues. >> the new republic's march issue is available now. editor michael tomasky, thank you very much. president and ceo of the naacp, derrick johnson, great to have you on this morning. we appreciate it. lauren, stay with us if you can. coming up, we're going to take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning, including the changes coca-cola

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aluminum. the company's ceo made the comments on an earnings call yesterday when asked about the impact of the 25% import tax on aluminum entering the country. according to one recent study, the soda giant accounted for 11% of branded plastic pollution in the world and is one of the world's top contributors to plastic pollution. disney is reducing content warnings that caution viewers about racial stereotypes on some of its classic films. amid a shift in dei strategy during the second trump administration. the entertainment giant is removing the content advisory disclaimers that automatically played before such movies like dumbo and peter pan that warned viewers that the films include negative depictions and or mistreatment of peoples or cultures. instead, a shortened version of the warnings will appear in the details section, and thousands

of belgians took to the streets thursday to protest the new government's planned pension reforms, with the country's air traffic controllers joining in the first day of the multi-day nationwide strike halted all air traffic in the country and forced the brussels airport alone to cancel 430 flights. and coming up on morning joe, we'll bring you the latest on the developing situation in germany. after a driver plowed into a after a driver plowed into a crowd of people in munich. it all started with a small business idea. it's a pillow with a speaker in it! that's right craig. pulling in the perfect team to get the job done. i'm just here for the internets. at&t, it's super-fast! you locked us out?! and when thrown a curveball... arrggghh! ahhhh! [crashing sounds] we had everything we needed. is the internet out? don't worry, we have at&t internet back-up. the next level network for small business.

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after a man drove into a crowd in munich this morning. right now, the driver, a 24, 24 year old afghan man, is in police custody. during the arrest, police fired a shot at the vehicle. officials described what happened as an intentional

attack. we are learning that the suspect was known to police in relation to drug and theft incidents. we still don't know a motive, but there was a union rally happening during that time. this comes just one day before world leaders are set to gather at the munich security conference tomorrow. we will bring you developments as they happen. all right. turning now to our next guest who argues modern day regional conflicts are becoming increasingly dangerous to maintaining global stability. new york times bestselling author robert kaplan joins us now. he is chair in geopolitics at the foreign policy research institute. his latest book is entitled wasteland a world in permanent crisis. and you talk about the infighting in the united states and how it impacts us and our place in the world. how would

you describe the situation in the united states today? >> i think that the political. >> center has gone mad. democracies have always functioned best in the. >> center. >> with a center right, republican. >> party. >> center left democratic party. but the change. >> from the old print. >> and typewriter age to an age of digital. >> video, social media has. empowered the extremes. and you see that in congress. you see. >> that all over. >> and when, when and when there is no political center, elections take on added. >> importance because. >> it's winner take all. it's, you know, you know, it's. >> the tyranny of the majority. >> and that is an instrument in, you know, as i write in the book, one instrument. >> of american decline. >> but i would. >> add that america's. >> decline is more. subtle and less extreme than in china. >> and russia. >> robert, i wondered if you

think that in doing the work for this book, how much you think the structure of the american system of democracy versus some of the external issues, like social media and some of the things that are happening all over the world are exacerbating these divisions in other countries. obviously, you can have these coalition governments, which of course, we don't have in our system. do you see it as an inevitable drift? because that's how the world is going, or is there something about the american system you think that is amplifying these divisions? >> oh, no. you see. >> it all over the world whenever. >> there's an india-pakistan. >> crisis. social media. >> explodes in. >> both countries, and it makes things more extreme. social media can also have good. >> effects, you know, leading to the demonstrations in iran against wearing the hijab, the. demonstrations for democracy in tunisia in 2011, the arab spring. >> of course. >> it didn't turn out well, but social media fostered. >> a lot. >> of those democratic

uprisings. i think social media is one of the issues that is. >> leading. >> to a more tumultuous, claustrophobic, anxious world. >> as technology shrinks. >> geography so that we're all. part of one system, we may not have world governance or world government, but we are increasingly in a single system. and that system always has one crisis after another, as we all affect each other. >> and on that idea, robert, talk to us about chaos in your word. just this idea. that that is suddenly. >> becoming a. >> defining global trend. and you. >> know, how. >> it sort of impacts everything. we're seeing. >> yes. >> notice the. >> subtitle of the book is. >> not a world. >> in permanent chaos, but a world in permanent crisis. >> so the book doesn't. >> predict chaos in that sense. but what i've written over the decades, from time to time, is

that leaders in. countries like egypt, jordan, algeria, all over. they're terrified. they're so terrified of chaos that they become a dead end. autocrats in many ways, you know, there. >> were. >> one extreme. a fear of one extreme leads to another extreme. and you see. >> it in a lot of countries. >> because, you know, take. >> africa. >> for example, which. >> is a. >> mixed bag of, of, of democratic trending countries. you have successful developing states like ghana and kenya. but even there, the very creation of. >> middle classes. >> which is. >> a success story really for, you know. fosters more chaos because middle class, new middle classes are ungrateful. they have more demands of government. there's nothing more unstable than an emerging. >> middle class.

>> and so chaos is a factor, you know, in on many different levels around. >> the world. >> the new book, wasteland a world in permanent crisis, is on sale right now. bestselling author robert kaplan, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> take care. and ceo of own together, lauren leder, as always, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead, we'll play for you. defense secretary pete hegseth s new comments on ukraine's future as president trump floats potential ceasefire talks between russia and ukraine. plus, we'll get insight on the latest inflation data and how it could impact interest rates, as well as president trump's tariffs. morning joe is back in just a moment. >> introducing a revolution in pain relief. absorbing junior pro. the strongest numbing pain relief available. it's the only

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predicting a cease fire in the conflict, but his comments yesterday seemed to favor putin's interests for ending the war. it comes as defense secretary pete hegseth laid out hard line stances on the future of ukraine and u.s. relations with nato members. we'll go through all of that straight ahead. plus, attorney general pam bondi made a statement yesterday taking action against the state of new york over its immigration policies. but her news conference was a little bit misleading. we'll explain that. and new economic data shows inflation is getting worse. and that's before trump's tariffs. we'll look at the latest projections for the future u.s. economy. also ahead, an nfl superstar is defending taylor swift after she was booed by some fans at the big game. we'll play for you his comments with us. we have the co-host of the fourth hour and contributing writer at the atlantic, jonathan lemire, columnist and associate

editor for the washington post. david ignatius, the host of way too early. ali vitali is with us and former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst steve rattner. steve, you have charts on the tariffs. we'll get to that. we have a lot of other things to talk about for, and we're going to start this morning with a new development in the middle east where moments ago, hamas confirmed its commitment to continuing the ceasefire deal in gaza, including the hostage exchange. that is, according to a statement from the militant group, which now resolves a major dispute that threatened the cease fire deal. we're learning that three more israeli hostages are set to be freed as initially planned. this comes after president trump had warned hamas all hell would break loose if the hostages were not released by noon on saturday, and israeli prime minister netanyahu said military operations would have resumed in

this. so. david ignatius, your take on this breaking news and trump's involvement in it. >> so. >> mika, i. >> think there's no question. that hamas. >> was basically intimidated. into resuming. >> the process. >> that had begun. hamas had. >> complained about. >> israeli military. >> operations and had said it. >> wanted to call. >> off the. >> next stage. there was a series of threats. >> i think. >> the. >> point that i. >> take away from the events of the last week in gaza is that this war. despite the cease fire and the release of hostages. >> is not over. >> israel is more committed. >> than ever to destroying. >> hamas, not simply. >> to taking away its military power. >> but. >> to destroying. >> the organization. >> and any. >> political role it has in the future. >> you know, certainly the future of the enclave there remains front and center. president trump earlier this week still. insisting upon his plan for perhaps u.s. control of. >> gaza. >> which of course has not been

well received by others in the region, including. >> the. >> king of jordan. >> just minutes after leaving. >> the oval office. where in the oval office. he was polite with trump, but later put out. >> a statement made clear. that his. >> nation does not support that. but while. >> that is in the. >> background, right. certainly the officials i've talked to at the white house believe that trump's sort of bellicose rhetoric on this in the last few days helped push hamas to. >> continue to. >> uphold his end of the deal. you know, he has suggested there would be violent repercussions, perhaps in the region, if that were not to be the case. of course, this is just breaking news. we will stay on it all morning long. meanwhile, another big story from yesterday, president trump speaking with russian president vladimir putin about ending the war in ukraine. it has been almost three years since russian troops invaded their neighbor, starting a conflict that has. >> killed and injured hundreds. >> of thousands of soldiers. the call between president trump and putin is their first confirmed. conversation since trump's return to the white house.

president trump says that he's agreed to visit russia, and putin has agreed to come to the united states, but that the two leaders would likely first meet somewhere else a neutral site. trump floated saudi arabia as a possibility yesterday. >> at the white house. >> reporters pressed trump. >> on peace talks. without the. >> ukrainian president. >> it's freezing. >> out president zelenskyy of this process. isn't there a danger of that? >> no, i don't think so. as long as he's there. but, you know, at some point you're going to have to have elections too. you're going to have to have an election. >> do you view ukraine. >> as an equal. >> member of this peace process? >> it's an interesting question. i think they have to make peace. their people are being killed and i think they have to make peace. >> with nato membership. >> for ukraine. >> i don't think it's practical to have it personally. >> just to be clear, do you see any. future in which ukraine returns to its 2014 borders? >> well, i think pete said today that that's unlikely, right? it

certainly would seem to be unlikely. >> ultimately, these are both demands that russia has made in the past. is there not a danger of handing russia a kind of win on this? >> well, well, i think that if you look at the war, the way the war is going, you have to make your own determination. i'm just here to try and get peace. i don't care so much about anything other than i want to stop having millions of people killed. >> president trump did speak with president zelenskyy yesterday, writing on social media that the conversation went very well. trump says vice president j.d. vance and secretary of state marco rubio are set to meet with zelenskyy tomorrow in munich. ahead of that meeting, treasury secretary scott bessent met with president zelenskyy yesterday in kyiv to discuss an agreement that would trade access to ukrainian natural resources for continued military support. zelenskyy

described it as a detailed plan on a strategic partnership between the two countries that would include opportunities for american businesses, and said that ukraine wanted investment in its resources. meanwhile, the secretary of defense, pete hegseth, made his first appearance at the ukraine defense contact group in brussels yesterday, where he overhauled the u.s. stance on europe's largest conflict since world war two. the group was formed by former secretary lloyd austin as a coalition in support of ukraine. hegseth called for an end to the war, but said any goal of returning ukraine to its pre 2014 borders is unrealistic, and ruled out nato membership for ukraine. >> we are at, as. >> you said, mr. >> secretary. >> a. >> critical moment as the war approaches its third anniversary. our message is clear. the bloodshed must stop

and this war must end. we want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous ukraine. but we must. start by recognizing that returning to ukraine's pre 2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering. that said, the united states does not believe that nato membership for ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement. instead, any security guarantee must be backed by capable european and non-european troops. if these troops are deployed as peacekeepers to ukraine at any point, they should be deployed as part of a non nato mission and they should not be covered under article five. there also

must be robust international oversight of the line of contact. to be clear, as part of any security guarantee, there will not be us troops deployed to ukraine. safeguarding european security must be an imperative for european members of nato. as part of this, europe must provide the overwhelming share of future lethal and non-lethal aid to ukraine. >> joining us live from nato headquarters in brussels, nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez. where does this leave ukraine in terms of support from the u.s. and nato? >> well, mika, ukraine really suffering a12 punch at the hands of the trump administration, as you said, president trump speaking to vladimir putin of russia before volodymyr zelensky of ukraine, inviting putin to the white house and not zelensky. >> and this. >> is exactly what the ukrainians did not want. the russians in the ear of the

president shaping this conversation before these negotiations have even begun. and then pete hegseth, the new secretary of defense, delivering that second blow here at nato headquarters in brussels. he did not give a forceful statement in support of ukraine. instead, he made a list of things the united states expects ukraine to give up. as you heard in that sound bite you played, he said. it is not realistic for ukraine to continue trying to recover all of the territory that it has lost to russia. so that is both territory lost since the full scale invasion began back in february 2022, but also areas lost since 2014, including crimea. he also said that ukraine needs to abandon its goal of nato membership as part of these peace negotiations. and i can tell you, mika, there is deep frustration here among the nato allies. you heard the german defense minister saying very bluntly that in his

assessment, the trump administration is making concessions to putin before these negotiations have even begun. now, secretary hegseth was asked this morning, is the united states betraying ukraine? he denied that. as you can imagine, he pointed to the billions of dollars in support that the u.s. has given ukraine. we should say that his support that came under the biden administration, and it is very unclear whether that support is going to continue at this level. in his statement yesterday, hegseth said that going forward, it is the european allies who will be expected to provide the bulk of military support to ukraine. he said the united states is focusing on china and the indo-pacific and on its own borders, and that it is downgrading european security as a priority. so big questions today, mika, especially about some of the specifics of defense programs that ukraine depends on the united states for those f-16s, those patriot missile

defense systems. a lot of those questions unanswered right now. >> nbc's raf sanchez, thank you very much. and we'll be gauging all the reaction to this. jonathan, the mayor, including from our nato allies. >> yeah, in many ways, this phone call yesterday was. >> the. >> beginning of the end of this war. and it ends, certainly a period of isolation for vladimir putin, who had. >> been made a. >> global pariah in the aftermath. >> of the invasion of ukraine. >> in fact, he had not spoken to a u.s. president since the war began. president biden had isolated him, had stopped taking his calls. so this is in itself a win for putin. so is a potential invitation to the united states. >> maybe even. >> the white. >> house in. >> the years ahead, a. >> summit we remember. >> of course, what happened in other the other trump putin summit. >> in helsinki. >> some years ago. >> looks like we may have a few on the. >> horizon here. this was certainly. >> a significant. >> day here. and as ralph said, one not well received in kyiv. >> their main. >> goal of. >> achieving nato membership. >> the u.s. very dismissive of that. that's something, of course, that putin really

opposes. trump has not ruled out entirely. continuing to send. >> some aid to kyiv. you know, he said that. >> in the oval office yesterday. but as we saw, the treasury secretary is there. >> it's much more conditional. >> now negotiated as part of a deal. and as secretary of defense, hegseth said, you know, the u.s. has made clear they're going to be focusing a lot less. on europe. going forward. so, david ignatius, it was also so striking, first of all, that trump. >> spoke to putin. before he spoke to zelenskyy. in his truth social. >> post about that call. >> he. >> said he. >> would, quote, inform zelenskyy. >> about what he. >> talked about with putin and that. their countries negotiators, meaning russia and the united. states would begin talking about. a peace. >> would look like seemingly. >> putting ukraine on the sidelines of its own war. now, we heard from zelenskyy later in the day saying that his conversation with trump was meaningful. >> a lot. >> of that was spin. but certainly you've written about what a new what a peace could look like, a negotiated settlement could occur later this year. certainly, moscow now

thinks it's going to be more along the lines of what putin wanted. than perhaps zelenskyy. >> so. >> jonathan. >> the negotiations. began yesterday, really. and the question is whether president trump is going. >> to. >> sell out. >> ukraine. >> which. has been. >> valiant in. >> fighting off russian. >> aggression. >> whether this peace. >> deal will be made over the. >> heads of the ukrainians. there certainly were some signs. >> that the. united states is. >> moving away from ukraine. >> the hex. >> that the secretary of defense was blunt in. >> saying what. >> everybody's understood. >> but people. >> have rarely said out loud, which is that. >> ukraine will have. >> to make territorial. concessions as part of a deal. and he was. specific about. nato membership not being an outcome of this negotiation. again, that's been pretty widely understood. there were some things. in this speech that i thought were significant positive elements. if you're vladimir zelensky sitting in

kyiv, there was. >> discussion about. a security. >> guarantee from, yes, a european. >> force. >> but a fairly. robust one with troops from britain, france. >> the baltic states. >> a range. >> of powerful. >> european armies. >> would be. >> would be placed there as a tripwire to prevent russian. further russian aggression. there'd be a force to monitor a line of control. >> it would be. >> from what i could read, something like. >> the armistice. >> that. ended the korean. >> war, where there was an armistice in place. i think the key question as this goes forward is whether president trump, as he seeks to be the peacemaker on ukraine, will. >> make a. >> peace that is a just settlement. that ukrainians can say protects their basic interests and allows them to be part of europe, or whether it will be a sell out. it's too early for me, based on the evidence yesterday, to make a judgment as. >> to which it. >> is you use that word just

both in the headline of your piece and even here with us now, i think there are concerns that i have heard from many that the goal of peace is admirable, and yet it could be done at the cost of selling out a key u.s. ally. we're going to see what we hear from trump in the next 24 or so hours on this, but we'll definitely get another overture of this story from munich on friday. as secretary of state, rubio and vice president vance are set to meet with zelenskyy. what do you imagine that conversation could sound like? >> so. >> ali, i'm. >> leaving for munich today. >> and i. >> hope to at least listen in on. >> the public part. >> of the conversation. i think that observers like us have to be very careful in measuring what is offered. to ukraine in terms of protecting it in the future against continued russian aggression and what is given to putin to satisfy his. >> he thinks. >> ukraine doesn't exist as a real country. >> is he going to is he going. >> to get that fantasy of total

russian dominance of ukraine satisfied in these negotiations? if so, it's an outrageous betrayal of a friend. >> but it may. >> be that there's something more in the middle. this is a terrible conflict. the cost of both sides has been just hideous. and as trump says, it is time for this conflict to go into a negotiation phase. but i think we all need to watch very carefully, look. >> at each of the. >> terms. >> and then make a judgment. >> coming up, a closer look at the inflation report from yesterday and the one due out just a short time from now. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us with that. but first, steve rattner has new charts on what it all means for the economy. it all means for the economy. morning joe is back in a moment. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max!

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have fun on land. (thunder rumbles) i'll go tell the coast guard. yep. yeah, checking first is smart. so check allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. you're in good hands with allstate. anticipated last month, raising questions about the future direction of interest rates. you have charts on this. take it away. >> yeah. >> we've been. >> expecting inflation. >> to continue to kind of moderate, ease down, provide more room for the federal reserve to cut interest rates and give relief, of course. >> to. >> consumers as well from. >> rising prices. >> but last month we didn't we didn't quite get that it wasn't. a disaster, but it wasn't what we hoped for. consumer prices actually. >> rose. >> and we look at consumer prices. >> as, you know, two ways. >> one, all of them and the other, when you take out food and energy, what we call core, which is this blue line right

here. and core is running now at about 3.3%. it's gone up for four months in a row. it is the highest it's been in over a year. >> and so. >> the moderating trend that we've seen for so long seems to have abated for now. and this is not lost on consumers. and this is very important because what consumers. >> expect actually. >> plays a meaningful role. >> in what actually. >> happens in inflation. >> and you can see here. >> consumers were expecting that. >> when they look ahead a. >> year, they expected higher inflation. and then they expected inflation to come down down down down down. >> and look what's. >> happened here. consumer expectations for inflation have shot up. and consumers now expect inflation could be as high as 4.3% over the coming year. and again. >> that. >> has a self-reinforcing quality. and so that makes it tougher as well for the. fed to bring down inflation. >> so steve, another thing that impacts consumers is interest rates. what's the market saying. >> yeah. >> so when you have more inflation.

>> it. >> pushes up. >> interest rates. >> because people. >> expect to. >> get a return on their money. the federal reserve controls what we call shorter term interest rates. >> this is the federal reserve's interest rate. >> and you can see they've cut it a couple of times. but what's also happened is the ten. >> year treasury. >> the yield on the ten year treasury has gone up and up and up here since. really since the election. there are really three things in the trump policies that are worrisome. inflation for inflation. number one, of course, are tariffs. we've talked a lot about tariffs and how they affect prices and can be paid. >> for. by consumers. >> that hasn't taken effect. >> yet. >> but that's a. >> drag on inflation a. >> bad thing. >> for inflation. the second thing is immigration. we've benefited from a lot of workers coming into the workforce, which. >> has kept wage. >> increases down a little bit lower than they might have been and helped provide economic growth. that may be coming to an end. and the third thing is that yesterday the house republicans unveiled their budget plan. they want to have massive tax cuts. they want to increase the spending and defense spending.

and they have some vague ideas about cutting other spending, which they didn't detail. but on present course and speed, we're going to get a substantial increase in the deficit out of what's going on in washington. and that's inflationary because it makes the economy grow faster and the faster it grows above its potential, the more inflation you get. so all of that has led the market to predict. interest rates to remain higher for longer. if you go back to even before the election, we thought the federal reserve would have the interest in its interest rate down to 3.7%. we're now looking at basically no more interest cuts this year, maybe one cut in december. and so interest rates stalling out is not a good thing for the economy and especially for mortgage holders, because the 30 year mortgage is stuck up here close to 7%. >> well okay. and finally, i guess the penny is not so lucky. costly to make the penny a penny for your thoughts. >> well, it could be lucky to. >> hold because maybe they won't

be so many anymore, right? so in the so, so interestingly, the cost of making coins has shot up over the years. inflation, the cost of the metals that go into them and so forth. and one of the ones that's gone up the most is the penny. and it now costs 3.7 cents to make every penny. so the treasury loses money on every penny it makes. it actually. also loses money on the nickel, which costs 13.8 cents. and it makes some amount of money on the quarter and the dime. and so they've announced and this is long overdue. i mean, you have to give credit where credit's due. the trump administration has actually made a good policy decision. maybe it's the only one, but they've made one which will eliminate the penny, save some money. and also consumers don't really use pennies that much. as you can see over here, they really don't use coins at all anymore, as much anymore. we've all gone electronic. and so usage of all these coins, production of all these coins has been going down, down, down. and yeah, when you eliminate the penny, the fear is that stores will will round the

prices up instead of down a little bit of extra cost. but you know, australia, canada, all those other places that we think of as behind us are actually way ahead of us when it comes to eliminating the penny, because they did it years ago. >> coming up, the latest from los angeles, where heavy rain is prompting evacuation warnings in some of the same areas that were decimated by the recent wildfires there. we'll have the latest on that when morning joe comes right back. >> legal eagle. >> and doug. >> you'll be back. emus can't. >> help people. >> customize and save hundreds on car insurance. with liberty. >> mutual. >> you're just a flightless bird. >> no. >> he's. >> a dreamer, frank. >> and doug. >> well. i'll be.

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>> kim's icu's. >> is used to treat adults with symptomatic obstructive hcm. cam icu's may improve your symptoms and your ability to be active. cam icu's may cause. >> serious side effects. >> including heart failure that can lead to death. a risk that's increased if you develop. >> a serious infection. >> or irregular heartbeat, or when taking certain other medicines. so do not stop, start or. >> change medicines. >> or the dose. >> without telling your health care provider. >> you must have echocardiograms before and during treatment. seek help if you experience new or worsening symptoms of heart failure. because of this risk, cam icu's is only available through a restricted program. before taking cameos, tell your doctor about all of your medical conditions, including current or planned pregnancy. with cam. >> icu's reducing my symptoms, i've gone. >> from sitting on the sidelines. >> to being back in the game. >> my name is stephanie and. >> this is my. >> cam icu's. moment. call your cardiologist today and see if a cam icu's moment. >> may. >> be in your future to. >> we saw elon musk take kind of a powerful role. >> did anything about. >> how he wielded his power surprise you? >> do you not need a katrina.

>> level type of response that is. rebuilding to make. >> sure it won't. >> happen again? >> you've obviously made a decision to resign. >> are there. >> any lessons. >> that can. >> be learned as you're talking to. >> members of your congregation, what do you tell them about how to. stand up. >> for their own. >> moral beliefs, but still find grace. >> in this moment? >> lock in the whole year. peacock for only 29.99. experience the joy of staying. in and watch all this for less than $3 a month. don't miss your chance to lock in a whole year of peacock for only 29.99. limited time offer terms apply. >> time now. >> for a. >> look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. according to u.s. intelligence. israel is likely to attempt a strike on iran's nuclear program in the coming months, the washington post reports. the preemptive attack would set back tehran's program by weeks or perhaps months. the

potential escalation would inflame tensions across the middle east in a new test for president trump, who campaigned on restoring peace in the region. we'll be following that. a new study suggests medications to treat obesity may also help people drink less alcohol. that's according to government funded research. the data suggests drugs like ozempic manage cravings not just for food, but also tobacco and alcohol. scientists are studying these drugs in smokers. people with opioid addiction and cocaine users and officials in los angeles are putting in place evacuation warnings amid a forecast of heavy rain. downpours are expected throughout tomorrow in some of the same areas that were scorched by the recent wildfires there. the burn zones are now at a high risk of mudslides, and dangerous debris flow will

follow that. >> and we certainly. >> hope keeps on coming. >> yeah, certainly hope everyone out there stays safe. >> yeah. >> on a lighter. >> note, the city of philadelphia. >> will celebrate the eagles super bowl. >> championship in a victory parade tomorrow. >> but ahead of. >> that, star running. >> back saquon barkley is. >> defending pop star. >> taylor swift after. >> she was. >> booed at sunday's. >> big game in new orleans. here's what. >> barkley told. howard stern yesterday about sunday's scene at the superdome. >> they showed her on the jumbotron and she got booed. i don't get it. i don't get why she was getting hate there. >> i didn't like that either. >> yeah, she was just there supporting her significant other. and she's made the game bigger. you know, we're all about how can we expand the game and make it more internationally. and we're traveling to brazil and we're traveling to mexico. and her being a part of it is only helping us. so i don't get the fact that she's getting. >> ali vitali, you're our resident swifty. so we. >> want you to. >> to weigh in on this. i think some of this. >> is not. >> is depressed residents with

is not necessarily about taylor swift. personally, i think there is a general sense of chiefs fatigue that has set in. but also let's remember she was booed by eagles fans. >> who once. >> booed santa claus. they'll do anybody because, frankly, taylor. >> swift about. >> as popular as santa claus. >> they'll boo anybody. >> but she's also a pennsylvania girl, has songs where they mention her philadelphia eagles t shirt on the door. so this was also a conflict of interest in some ways for her. ultimately, we saw the way that she went, and you really can't blame her. i mean, ryan is here as my co swiftie for the day, but look, i just want to remind people that it's not cool to hate taylor swift. like, you don't get extra points for this. and if you don't like her, it's not mandatory to be a swiftie. that's totally fine. i'm not looking to recruit people to the cause, but it's pretty great over here. i will say, if you don't like her, you don't have to say anything. so props to saquon barkley. i'm into that. >> coming up, a live report from capitol hill. we're following the senate vote for robert f kennedy jr to become the nation's health secretary. and

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>> moving on. todd. blanche. president trump's nominee to be deputy attorney general appeared before the senate judiciary committee for his confirmation hearing yesterday. blanche was the president's criminal defense lawyer in his new york hush money case, as well as the two criminal cases brought by the justice department. blanche used his opening statement to push the narrative that the prosecutions against trump were political, including those launched by the very department he wants to help lead. >> representing president trump. was the greatest job i've ever

had. i think if i'm confirmed, my new job will surpass it. but it was the greatest job i ever had. it was it was an honor and i learned a ton. it opened my eyes for sure to what happens when politics takes the place of justice. and both both you and the ranking member talked about this. and i couldn't agree more that politics should never play a part in the department of justice. and i saw with my own eyes in manhattan with with the manhattan case. i saw it in the georgia case. i saw it in both jack smith's prosecutions. i saw it in elected officials trying to keep president trump off the ballot. it opened my eyes to something that i hadn't seen when i was just a prosecutor in new york trying to put gang members in jail. >> all right. meanwhile, democrats on the committee grilled blanche about the potential conflict of interest that could arise in light of his former job representing the president. take a look. >> would you agree that it would

be a blatant conflict of interest as his criminal defense lawyer, as someone who has a continuing legal obligation to him as a former client, for you to participate in any of the work of that group as it pertains to the january 6th case that you represented him, or the mar-a-lago case where you represent him, or alvin bragg's office where you represent him, you would agree that that would be a very blatant conflict of interest. >> i don't. >> know, i don't necessarily agree with that. there will. >> be a. >> conflict of interest potentially, but i quibble with the word blatant. >> i find it remarkable that you feel there's any world in which you could somehow participate in an investigation of people where you represented the president in that same investigation. >> lawmakers on both sides of the aisle also questioned blanche on recent changes at the doj, including the string of firings at the fbi and president trump's blanket pardon of january 6th rioters. >> it would never hold it

against. >> a public defender. >> that they. >> were defending in the court of law. >> a person who was accused of. >> a serious crime. >> right? i would not. >> right. >> and my view on the fbi. >> is it's the same thing. >> if an. >> fbi agent, i'm a worker there, and i get assigned to a case by. >> my boss. is there any reason. >> in the world that i should pay a price? because i did my job as assigned? >> i don't know, and. >> i don't. >> think that that's what's happening. as a future member of the doj, what would be your position on anybody who does violence against police officers in the past or in the future? they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. and do you agree with me that anybody who was convicted or pled guilty pleaded guilty to violence against a police officer owes a formal written apology to whoever they hurt in the process? that is something i would think they should certainly consider doing. a vote

on blanche's nomination has not been scheduled, but could come as soon as next week. meanwhile, as president trump's department of justice works to identify all fbi agents and employees who worked on the sprawling investigation into the january 6th attack on the capitol, new reporting reveals. the doj official behind that order. acting deputy attorney general amal beauvais, once helped track down rioters himself back in 2021, the months following the insurrection. beauvais assisted in the search for rioters as a manhattan federal prosecutor. who. joining us now with more on that reporting, ryan riley, he covers the justice department and federal law enforcement for nbc news. ryan, what more do you know about this? and what do you make of this change of heart he might be having?

>> yeah. >> you know, i mean, you know, even for someone who worked in the southern district of new york, which is sort of. >> a. >> notoriously hard charging district, sometimes jokingly referred to as the sovereign district of new york for its independence from the justice department. the suggestion that s.d.n.y. should have taken over the investigation of an attack on the u.s. capitol. >> in. >> d.c. was a pretty bold move. but that's what he was proposing here. you know, some of the criticism that we've seen in the years since is that the notion that essentially, prosecutors in these cases saw this as a way to sort of build their career? they saw this i've heard the line used that of the equivalent of their of their nine over 11. right. that these were they knew this was going to be this major national security case, but this was this major attack on the capitol that resulted in multiple deaths that resulted in severe injuries to police officers. it was an act of domestic terrorism as adjudicated in these certain cases. that's a that's a high bar in a lot of these. and often it's on the back end in sentencing. but this is what you know, you saw prosecutors going for is sentencing enhancements

for domestic terrorism. and so the his involvement here is fascinating. it's angered a lot of people within the justice department who worked these cases, who are career officials who were assigned to these cases. and i think the divide that you've seen within the fbi, there's been a lot of backlash from within the fbi, which, once again, i'll say it for the millionth time, is a conservative leaning law enforcement organization about this targeting of fbi employees as well as probationary employees. you know, if that probationary if they end up going after these individuals at the fbi who are on probation, which means they've been there for less than two years and they have fewer civil service protections than than fbi agents who have been there for longer. that is going to destroy the pipeline of fbi employees for years, and that will make it much more difficult for the fbi to recruit. >> we talked on our show about that pipeline concern. and then in your story about beauvais, it sort of sums it up as the call is coming from inside the house when it comes to him. but i want to stay on this idea of prosecutors across the country,

u.s. attorneys, because you reported overnight that some of them got their walking papers, and that's not abnormal for a new administration to come in and sort of tell the u.s. attorneys that exist. all right, time to go. but what's not normal about the way that this one went? >> it's coming from the white house. i mean, the origin of this is different, right? because if you look back to trump at 1.0, the first term, what you had is then attorney general jeff sessions, who we all know how that story ends. but he wrote these letters to the biden appoint, or rather, the obama appointed u.s. attorneys and just that narrow category saying, hey, you know, requesting a resignation. so that's that was sort of how they did it first term. then when biden took office, he sent a letter. it was rather the his administration, his within the justice department asked people to resign. by a certain point, it was a three week lead time. so there was a natural transition. so it was sort of wind down. it wasn't. pack up your desk. you're out today. this was sort of this natural wind down transition of those trump appointed u.s. attorneys. so this is a major departure. and also i think the rubber is going to hit the road here on

some of the court appointed u.s. attorneys, because, of course, people who are appointed by obama knew they were going to be out at some point. but when you're talking about court appointed u.s. attorneys, that's a whole different thing. and especially term and immediate term term termination notices coming from the white house is the oddity here. >> yeah. nbc's ryan riley, thank you so much. his book, sedition hunters how january 6th broke the justice system. it's out now. coming up, our next guest directed the oscar nominated documentary sugar cane. the filmmakers join us here in studio with a look at that powerful project. when morning powerful project. when morning joe comes right 5k fun run! say hi to patty. celebrated social worker... whose coming in second? self-appointed social chair. hmmmm. potluck. kickball. “last call”. sign up for goat yoga! you name it, she's on it. and you have 47 emails to prove it. but her capacity to care is unmatched. you need patty. patty needs a retirement plan. work with principal so we can help you help patty

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with their ethics. >> i've been. trying to. >> find out what. >> happened at saint joseph's mission. >> everything was so secretive. >> my dad. >> was born there. how did it happen? >> it's not something that. >> you want to. >> open up, you know? >> it just keeps. on damaging. >> that was. >> a look. >> at the critically. >> acclaimed documentary sugar cane, which is up for an. >> academy. >> award next month. the film investigates the abuse that took place at. saint joseph's mission, a now closed residential school run by the catholic church near the. sugar cane reserve in british columbia, canada. joining us now, cinematographer, co-director and producer of sugar cane, emily cassie and co-director. >> julian brave. >> noisecat, whose father and grandmother are survivors of saint joseph's mission. also

also with us for this conversation, special correspondent at vanity fair and host of the fast politics podcast, molly jong-fast. my thanks to you for joining us. congratulations on the award. awards and nominations that are. piling up. julia, let me start. start with you. obviously, this is a deeply personal story. your family is connected to it. how much did you know about this growing up. and how did you make the decision to explore it in this film? you know. >> i actually knew very little. >> about my family's connection to the indian residential schools growing up. i had heard some. >> stories. >> some about babies being born at the school, being placed at the incinerator. >> but even i. >> believe those stories were ghost stories. i didn't know that they were true. and through. >> this film, we learned that not only were. >> those stories true, but that they actually were part. >> of my own genealogy. >> and what was it like as. walk us through the process here. >> as you learned. >> more about it. what was that like for you on a personal level? well, i actually moved. >> in with. >> my dad. >> who, you know, left when i

was 6 or 7 years. >> old and lived together for two years. >> during the making of the film. >> and we became a lot closer. so while the film is about, you know, a cultural genocide that. too many people in north. america do not know. >> about, it was also actually a really beautiful healing journey. >> for him, myself. >> and our family. so. so, emily, this is something that only recently has attracted sort of national international attention. the government of canada, prime minister trudeau apologized for some of how indigenous tribes were treated at facilities like these. what drew you to the story? >> i've been covering human. rights abuses and geopolitical conflicts all over the world for. >> the last ten. >> years, but. >> had. never thought to turn my lens on my. >> own country. i'm canadian. >> in the last year of the. residential schools was in. >> 1997. >> which was my first year of kindergarten, and this was a system that separated six generations of indigenous kids from their families and forcibly assimilated. >> them into white culture. >> and systematically. >> abused them. as we later found out. so i felt gut pulled. >> to. >> the story. >> what i didn't know is that i

would end. >> up choosing to. >> follow an. investigation at the. >> very school. >> where julien's family attended and. >> where his. >> father's life began. >> so let's take. >> a look. >> at a clip now from the documentary that explains some of the history of abuse at saint joseph's mission. >> every principal. >> from the time the place opened to when it. >> closed. >> all knew. >> that this stuff was happening. so all of those principals were involved in some. way with the disappearance. with the death, with the babies being born. >> did they think we'd be stupid? all of our lives, the rest of our lives, and nobody. >> would. >> ever find out these things.

>> so this. >> movie is also about your. >> journey. >> julien, to your past, to where you came from. tell us about your. >> journey in. >> this movie. >> you know, i didn't grow up on. the reservation. >> that my family. >> comes from. i grew up with my white. >> mom and my. >> parents split when i. >> was, you know, quite. >> young. but i. reconnected with my culture through. >> the urban native community in the city that i grew up in, and spent a lot of time. >> going back to the rez that my family lives on. and i also. >> spent time trying. >> to understand. >> and reconnect. >> with my dad and. >> to. >> understand why he. >> left and the pain that he carried, much of which came. >> directly from. >> these residential schools, as it does for so many native people. >> you know, it's important to. >> understand that there. >> were hundreds. >> of indian schools across canada. >> and the united states that took. hundreds of. >> thousands of children away from their families and their homes and tried to forcibly assimilate them into white christian culture. and that that history of forced family

separation and abuse still ricochets into our present today. and we learned so much more about how that impacted me and my family through the making of this film. but that. >> is really just one example. >> of something that all native people across. >> this continent. >> live with today. >> emily. >> you how. >> did you two. >> meet each other to begin with? >> and then how. >> did you, as you were working on this, did you, like, just tell us about that? >> yeah. well, julien and i met. >> ten years. >> ago at our first. >> reporting jobs. >> we were cub reporters. >> randomly assigned to. desks next to each. >> other. and julien. >> had gone on. >> to become. >> this incredible. >> writer and journalist. focusing on. >> indigenous life. >> and. you know. >> i happened. >> to follow this investigation. >> and bring. >> julien in, not knowing. >> i had chosen. >> that very. >> school that his family. >> went to. >> which was truly remarkable. >> and then from there, you know, not only did we spend three years. in 160. >> shoot days. >> making this film. >> but we also. >> brought it to the white house. we were part. >> of the movement. >> to get.

>> a. >> historic apology from. former president joe biden. we were on obama's top. >> ten documentaries. >> of the year. >> and i. >> do also want to. >> mention it's taken. >> films top. >> ten films of the year. yes. >> and this. >> film isn't. >> just historic. >> in that it's the first. >> time that this. >> story is being told. >> the origin story of north america. >> is being told. >> but also. >> this is the first. >> time an. indigenous north american filmmaker has ever been nominated for an. oscar in its. 97 year. >> history. >> if you. >> can believe that. >> and we. >> hope that that's not. >> true. t he's not the only one for very long. >> yeah. >> academy award nominated and deeply powerful documentary sugar cane, streaming now. >> on. >> disney plus and national geographic. cinematographer, co-director and producer emily kassie and co-director. >> julian brave noisecat. thank you both and good luck at next. >> month's oscars. well, jim. >> we're really looking. >> forward to it. >> congrats to you both. up next here, we'll get a live report from capitol hill. as. kash

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of morning joe. it's 6 a.m. on the west coast, 9 a.m. in the east, along with jonathan lemire, ali vitali and me. we have nbc news national affairs analyst and partner and chief political columnist at puck, john heilemann and vanity fair's molly jong-fast is with us as well. good to have you all on board this hour. so two major cabinet votes happening on capitol hill this morning. let's take a live look at senators in the hearing room, where they will vote on fbi director nominee kash patel. lawmakers

are expected to take turns speaking and then vote on patel's nomination later this morning. also on the schedule for today, a full senate vote on health and human services secretary nominee robert f kennedy jr. rfk jr. cleared a required procedural vote along party lines yesterday in protest of the pick, a group of democrats staged an all night marathon of speeches on the senate floor, but that effort won't likely change the outcome of today's vote. joining us now, nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles. ryan, tell us more about what we're going to see play out in the next hour or two. >> well. >> mika, what we're going to see play out here on capitol hill is donald trump. >> getting exactly. >> what he wants? >> and senate. >> republicans giving. >> him exactly. >> what he wants, despite the fact that he had a long list of. controversial picks to. >> his administration. it seems. as though every single one is

going to sail through confirmation. >> the only exception being matt gaetz. >> who pulled himself out of the process. very early on in the. >> beginning. >> before it even really got going. every single one of these. >> cabinet picks. >> who have. yet have received even. >> a bit of mild. >> opposition. >> have seen. >> that opposition melt. away over this confirmation. >> process, despite the fact that some of them have. >> had very rocky confirmations, have not. >> been. >> able to answer basic questions from their from. republicans that have been pressing. >> them on. >> many of these issues. we are seeing each and every one of them confirmed. of course, tulsi gabbard was. >> confirmed just. >> a. >> couple of days ago. >> she was sworn in yesterday. today it will be robert f kennedy jr who will be on the house. >> floor at around or i'm sorry, on the senate. >> floor around 1030 today where he may get one republican. >> voting against him. he can. >> afford to lose three republican. >> votes and. >> still win confirmation. >> we saw lisa murkowski of alaska. >> announce overnight that she will indeed. >> vote yes. >> on his confirmation. >> so he's seems to. >> have assuaged the concerns of

moderate. >> republicans who. >> feel that his. >> anti-vaccine stance, his. >> refusal to. >> walk back, the. debunked links that. >> he's made. >> between vaccines. >> and autism. >> they don't seem concerned about that. >> they believe that he's going. >> to follow. >> donald trump's agenda, particularly when. >> it comes. >> to vaccines. so they feel. >> comfortable giving. him control of. the $1.7. >> trillion. >> hhs budget, which. >> includes responsibilities. >> over departments like the. cdc and. >> the fda. and then, of course, you have kash patel, who is expected to make it through committee without. much republican opposition, if any at all. and mika. >> i've been. >> really surprised. at the lack of. >> pushback from. >> republicans when it comes. >> to kash patel. >> this was. >> someone that was very intrinsically involved in. >> the stop the steal efforts and the. >> overturning of the 2020 election, at. >> least the attempts. >> to overturn. >> the 2020 election. he's also. been very open about. >> how he. >> believes that donald. >> trump should seek retribution. in this term, after what he went through. while he was out of office, and the

attempts to indict him. >> and convict him of crimes. >> related to january. >> 6th and classified documents. >> and. >> other things during. >> his confirmation process, where we. >> saw some pushback against. >> rfk jr and tulsi. >> gabbard by republicans, there was. almost no pushback whatsoever on kash patel. >> we've not heard any republicans. stand up and. >> say that they. >> have issues or concerns. >> about his past, even when. >> it. >> comes to his. lack of. >> experience in. >> a position like. >> this, but also just. >> the controversial. >> statements that he's made. republicans just do not seem to be concerned. >> about that at all. >> at all. >> and that. >> comes against the backdrop. >> of this. purge that we're already seeing take place. >> at the fbi. >> where many career agents who have worked for the agency for a long time have been removed from their jobs. >> and there also appears to be an appearance of. specifically getting. >> rid of those agents that were involved in any. >> of the investigations. >> related to donald trump. >> so patel's hearing. >> today is. >> baked for the most part.

>> he will. >> make it through. that hearing. >> but democrats will. >> have. >> one last chance to make their. >> voice. >> known on this, and we expect it to be a two hour process where they will get the opportunity to speak. >> and. >> raise their concerns about kash patel. but at the end of the day, as. >> we said. >> at the beginning. >> of this, mika. donald trump. >> is going to get what he wants and republicans seem willing. >> to comply. >> ryan quick, quick two parter for you one. i know in the beginning of this process, before some of the president's more divisive recent moves, there was a thought that some democrats, at least a couple, might vote for kennedy. let us know if you've heard anything about that. and then secondly, just want to float a theory past you that i've been hearing the last couple of days as we see the republicans be completely compliant with all of trump's picks, no matter how controversial or unqualified they are. the thought is, the only reason why. >> matt gaetz. >> didn't get through was not because. >> he couldn't do the. >> job, but just because he had angered so many of them over the years. >> yeah. >> two great. >> questions, jonathan. >> on the first one, the. >> message we're. >> getting from. >> senate democrat leadership.

>> is that they do not. >> think that there will be. >> a single yes vote for robert. >> f kennedy jr from the democrats. of course, anything. >> can change. once they. >> get to the floor. >> and actually cast their vote. but we do not expect a single democratic vote. yes for robert. >> f kennedy jr. >> and in terms of matt gaetz, i think there is a. >> lot. >> to. >> be said about. >> that. >> that, you know. >> gaetz just did not have. very many. friends on capitol. >> hill, and there was. not a. >> willingness to. >> stand up for him in the way that they're willing to stand up for some of these. other nominees, just because of the. personal animus that. >> they had for. matt gaetz. you know, i think a lot of. republicans are very concerned about the lack of. qualifications and the. >> history of some of. >> these cabinet. >> nominees. but they also don't want to take on donald. trump and. >> spend their political capital in a vain like this. >> matt gaetz was the exception there, and it. >> had a lot to. >> do with his lack. >> of credentials and. >> the things that he. >> had said in the past. but it also had to do that. they just didn't. >> like. >> him as a human being. and so

i think that played a. big role in why you saw him take such. >> an early. >> exit. >> because. >> it was message. >> to donald. >> trump and the transition at that time. >> that. >> this just wasn't there was this was a nonstarter. it just wasn't going to happen. and that's why he pulled out so quickly. >> brian, it's ali. you're absolutely right, of course, about the personal blending with the political when it came to gaetz. but i wonder if you view this moment where we saw all republicans fall in line, despite any reservations they might have had on nominees? does that portend the same kind of a vibe, really, as they try to move forward and start legislating on things like taxes and immigration ideas, where there is a wide range from within the republican conference. but are they all just probably going to get on board anyway? is that what this foretells for the future? >> yeah, 100%. >> ali, i. >> think the lesson. of this. >> confirmation process is that this congress. >> both the republican. >> house and senate, for all intents. >> and purposes, are. >> owned by donald trump. >> he will call the shots.

>> if there is any opposition. >> it. >> will be. >> mild and it. will likely be muted. >> the message has been sent. >> from the white. >> house that if you attempt. >> to buck what donald. >> trump. >> wants to. get done. >> there will be. >> a political consequence to that. >> we saw. >> that play out initially. >> with. >> the pete hegseth nomination, and i think that was the kind of the breaking point. >> for senate republicans. >> there were a. >> lot of senate republicans who privately. >> were very. >> concerned about pete hegseth nomination and in some ways. actively worked to. undermine his nomination. >> but then when push came to shove and they were held to. >> account, they backed down. >> the one thing. >> that donald. >> trump is not going. >> to allow. >> senate republicans in particular, but house republicans. >> as. >> well. >> is to try and. >> engineer these things behind closed doors. >> if donald. >> trump comes out publicly and. >> says that he wants something. >> if you're going to be a member of. >> congress that's going to. >> vote against it, you're going to have to go to the. >> floor of the house or. >> senate and vote no. >> you're not going to just be able to message. >> to. >> the. >> white house that. >> this is a bad.

>> idea and think. >> that. >> they're going to step back. that's just not going to happen. now, this is going to get complicated. >> as you. well know, having covered this place for. >> so long. because the. >> nitty gritty. >> details here. >> especially when it comes to a. >> budget process, reconciliation. >> and then separately. >> government funding. >> which those are two completely. >> different buckets. there are a lot. >> of different stakeholders and different desires. and different. >> needs from different. places in both the house. >> and. >> senate that. >> are going. >> to butt up against. >> each other, and where donald trump may. >> not have a specific. >> desires or. >> needs. >> or concerns. and i think that's. >> where the breakdown is going to come. the fight here is going to be between republicans against themselves in the. >> house and senate that are separate. >> from the. desires of donald trump. >> donald trump is going to get what donald trump wants. the question. >> is what they deliver to him. >> in that package and how that. plays itself out, where i think. >> you're. >> going to see a lot of the battles. >> here in congress. >> over the. >> next. >> you know, 3 to. >> 6 months. >> for sure. nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, thank you very much. reading now from the wall street

journal's editorial board. it's a piece entitled trump gets the cabinet. he wants. quote, republicans seem poised to confirm all of president trump's cabinet nominees, even those who favor policies most gop senators oppose. this is an impressive display of maga political muscle. but now the president and party will have to live with them. good luck. and the journal's editorial board goes on to specifically call into question the credentials of tulsi gabbard and robert f kennedy, jr. john heilemann, i mean, you know, we read from the wall street journal for a reason because at this point, there's always accusations too far left, too far right. but the wall street journal editorial board has been hitting trump hard on these nominees and is also talking about the consequences of these actions of these people being voted through and what those consequences are going to

look like. i mean, this is going to change the way america does business with itself. and the safety of a number of people, depending on whether or not you believe what kash patel has said in the past. >> mika, you couldn't. >> you couldn't. >> you couldn't. >> say it more clearly. >> i think, you know, there there are political witch all about this in terms of politics a lot. and, and that's, you know. >> because that's. >> what we do and, and what ryan was saying earlier just now, i think is, you know, one of the takeaways we have witnessed over the course. >> of ten years. >> the republican party is no longer the republican party. >> it is the. >> party. of trump. >> there has been very little. why not widespread, organized. >> even noticeable. resistance or standing. >> up to trump. >> on the part of. any faction of the republican party. in the entire time that he has been, he has been the dominant figure in the party. and now. >> their acquiescence. >> to what he wants is total. i

would i would. >> say it's not. >> only the. >> power of that is not only trump's existing political power and the power. >> of his base, but also now reinforced. >> with someone like. >> elon musk. >> walking around saying, i basically an unlimited bank bank account bankroll to primary you. >> so the threat of the. >> primary becomes all the more severe. but there's. also this human element to this, you know, as. >> as we've talked for. >> the last several days. >> about the scale. >> of what's going. >> on and the speed of. >> what's going on. >> and the whole remaking. >> of the. american governmental attempt to remake the american governmental and constitutional order. these cabinet secretaries are not the central players. the central player is donald. trump and elon, and secondarily elon musk. >> but they are. >> going to be the instruments through. >> which he. >> these. >> these, these efforts. >> to reshape. >> our whole order are. >> take place. and the human consequences. >> of. >> that in different spheres, whether it's the sphere of health, the sphere of intelligence, the. sphere of justice, the human consequences. >> of. >> that are unknown and unknowable. but there is significant, they are

significant. and i think we. >> are. >> not going to look back on these things and say, oh yeah, these guys, it didn't matter that these these people became cabinet secretaries. i think it's going to matter a lot. >> it's going to matter a lot. molly jong-fast your take. >> i'm curious. >> when ryan was. talking before. >> about the. >> sort of political capital and if they are theoretically. >> saving it, right. these republicans, are. >> they saving it? you know. >> so much of. >> what. >> we've seen has been republicans trying to sort of manipulate trump. now. >> so. >> far. >> they have gotten nothing from it. right. but we've. >> seen businesses. >> try to manipulate trump. >> so my. >> question is. >> is there like a. >> larger plan. >> here or are they just. going along with it? >> at the. >> moment. >> it doesn't seem like it. i mean. >> you. >> have seen a few senators say no to certain nominees. you know, mitch mcconnell has now voted no on a couple. >> he may. >> he may again. >> it's possible that what. >> we've seen at the fbi in the last week or so, the potential purge. may trigger. >> a republican. >> or two that we don't expect. >> to balk against kash patel. but to this. >> point.

>> they have been nothing but. >> in line with everything that trump has done. and we're. >> even seeing. the congress. >> be. willing to. give up part of their own power here. so the article one power of the of the. constitution to just. >> enable trump and musk. >> to have free. >> reign in washington. >> so we're going to keep an eye on these hearings and dip back in. we do want to turn to the breaking news out of germany, where at least 28 people were injured after a man drove a car into a crowd in munich this morning, nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell is live at the scene in munich. andrea, what's the latest? >> well, the latest. is that, as you say, 28 people injured so far that we know they were taken to hospital. the suspect has been identified as a 24 year old afghan man seeking asylum here in germany. you can see the white mini cooper over there that he drove into this group. now, this was a group of protesters, mika. these were labor union protesters, public

workers protesting for higher wages. so no relationship among the protesters, at least. but it was a large crowd, but no relationship to the munich security conference, which starts tomorrow, is organizing. already today, leaders are arriving from around the world about a mile, a little less than a mile from here, and it was about four hours before vice president j.d. vance was arriving. from that, i conference in paris with his family, his young children who've been traveling with him. so they arrived about four hours later. the secret service says that there's no protective issue. they're monitoring all of this very closely, but no protective problem for the vice president. having come here for years, there is very tight security. anytime the security conference is held, and certainly there would be this year. ukraine is the chief issue, obviously. zelenskyy arriving tomorrow, tomorrow morning, secretary rubio arriving other world leaders already here. but as i say this is now being investigated. the suspect was known to police. local police they say for a past

drug and theft crimes. so we don't know a motive for what happened here today. but they are talking to him. he is in custody and the local officials say that there is no there's no security risk that they know of. but we don't know yet what the motive was. >> mika. all right. nbc's andrea mitchell, who is obviously in munich for the munich security conference covering this breaking story for us. andrea, thank you so much. it is time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. flu season is showing no signs of slowing down. doctors across the country are still reporting high hospitalization rates at a time of year when the case counts are typically lower, the cdc estimates there have been as many as 650,000 hospitalizations, which could be the most since 2017. cdc data also shows only about 46% of children and adults received the flu shot this season. jonathan,

did you get yours? >> i did some time ago, but certainly it is going around. >> yeah. >> a lot of people sick right now. in other news, chevron says it's cutting up to 9000 jobs worldwide, which is 15 to 20% of its entire workforce. the oil giant is trying to trim billions. >> in operating. >> costs after its fuel business. last quarter lost money for the first time since the year 2020. exxonmobil, the country's largest oil producer, and chevron, they both saw their annual profits decline last year and a completely different subject now the beverly hills. >> mansion that. >> once belonged. >> to. >> comedian groucho marx is. >> up for sale. >> the legendary star of radio, film and television had the home built back in the 1950s. and lived there. >> until his death in 1977. the asking price for the single. >> story. 6000 square foot. home is a cool. $19.5 million.

>> i want to get that. okay. interesting. all right. coming up, we're going to get the latest economic news as a key inflation gauge was just released moments ago. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us to break down the january producer price index. plus, president trump announced this morning that he plans to unveil reciprocal tariffs today. we're going to go through what it could mean for the u.s. economy. that's all straight ahead on that's all straight ahead on morning joe. this is steve. steve takes voquezna. this is steve's stomach, where voquezna can kick some acid, heal erosive esophagitis, also known as erosive gerd, and relieve related heartburn. voquezna is the first and only fda-approved treatment of its kind. 93% of adults were healed by 2 months. of those healed, 79% stayed healed. plus, voquezna can provide heartburn-free

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wholesale prices rose 0.4% last month. that's higher than analysts expected. >> let's bring. >> in now the co-anchor of. cnbc's squawk. box and a new york. >> times. >> columnist andrew ross sorkin. >> good to. >> see you again, andrew. so this news comes on the heels of, of course, the. >> inflation report.

>> from earlier this week. >> it seems. >> that prices not only are they. stubbornly staying high in some cases. >> going higher. >> so you. >> know, yesterday when i. saw you in person things. >> were hotter. and i don't want to suggest today they're not hotter because as you just said, the number is hotter than analysts had expected. having said that, there are. >> some numbers. >> if you. >> start to get into. >> this report. >> that may make it seem like maybe things. are a little bit. >> more. >> benign. >> perhaps. than some of the more alarmist views yesterday, just about how high. inflation could go. and i'll just explain what i mean by that. so even though the total number for wholesale prices, this is what producers pay, not not what necessarily the consumer pays. but you have. >> seen physician. care interestingly. >> fell 0.5%. you saw domestic airfares falling by 0.3%, brokerage services were off by 2.2%. so there is some. sense that perhaps, maybe. >> the inflation is not going.

>> to be a runaway situation. having said that, as we've discussed over and over, the markets. are almost priced for perfection. still, the chances of inflation. continue to be higher rather than lower, insofar as between what president trump wants to do on tariffs and, frankly. >> what he wants the fed to do. >> which is to lower interest rates. if either of those things were to happen almost by default, you would have more inflation. >> so, andrew, let's indeed talk tariffs. a few. >> moments ago. >> president trump took to truth social. >> to announce he'd be holding a news conference in the. >> oval office at. >> 1:00 to. >> talk reciprocal tariffs. that would be his second news conference of the day. he's supposed to have one at day's end, also with the prime minister of india. so tell viewers exactly what reciprocal tariffs are. and what do you think the impact will be for all of us? okay. >> so reciprocal. >> tariffs basically. >> are if. >> there is a country that has a 10% tariff on the united states, we. >> would implement a 10% tariff on them. >> basically that for whatever the product is that we have a that there's a tariff on us, we

would reciprocate back. the question is twofold. one, is this part of a larger negotiation. >> to bring all. >> of these countries to the table, but. >> how that. >> actually works in practice is complicated because he's effectively. >> saying. >> reciprocal tariffs on everybody. so you'd have to negotiate. >> with. everybody at one time. >> is he going to put on these. >> reciprocal tariffs and say, we're going to do this in. >> 3 or 4 months from now to sort of give the government time to try to negotiate. >> these things. >> is this about national security? is this about economics? >> i think those. >> are all of the questions. we do not have the answers right now. we're going to really have to see what he what he says about this. and as we've seen, even with the mexico canada situation, i think that he's wanted to use. >> this more than. >> anything tactically as a negotiation, hoping effectively that he doesn't. have to implement the tariffs and that he can. >> somehow. >> in the case of canada and mexico, get something on on the other side or on immigration or something else. this is different, though, because it's

not just about an immigration issue or fentanyl issue or something else. forim thiis an economic one. and not only could there be reciprocal tariffs, they could escalate. >> if this. >> actually becomes a grander negotiation, that could make it even worse. >> yeah, that's a good point. to this point, the threat of tariffs mostly a bluff, but we will see what happens. 1:00 we'll hear from the president from the oval office, cnbc's andrew ross sorkin. thank you as always, my friend john hammond. let's turn to you now for the politics of tariffs and their. >> impact, because. >> it seems not. >> that long ago that we had. >> an entire presidential. campaign that was fought, at. >> least. >> in some part, about rising prices. >> well. >> for sure, jonathan, although. >> i think, you know. >> if you were to. >> talk to and i know you do, if you talk. >> to people. >> inside trump world, they would also say that in 2016, throughout. his first term and in this campaign, as much as that is. >> rising prices. >> were were part. >> of the campaign. and

certainly that's the way we. >> analyze it. >> from their point of view. the a lot of the tough guy rhetoric, especially with respect to china and. >> and with respect to mexico. in trump's mind and in the minds of his political advisers, they think those are things are more important in some ways to trump's. >> political strength. >> than merely something like. the rise and fall of inflation. and i think, you know, this is a place where the conventional political analysis of the campaign, which. >> i, i share to, i. >> share to a large extent, i think that inflation was a central factor. i don't think trump necessarily believes that. and you've heard him already say in these first few weeks, you. >> know, if we have to. >> suffer a little bit more inflation in the long run. we it'll be. worth it. >> because we'll be able to stop the world. >> from ripping us off. now, that's a very tendentious claim. but trump has believed that from day one, you've covered him from the beginning. he believes that. especially china has taken advantage of the. >> united. >> states for. a very long time.

and he and he believes the tariffs he does not believe that tariffs are as economically damaging as almost. >> every economist on earth. >> so i think that's i think. >> andrew is right. >> to. >> say that, that. >> this is a more unpredictable scenario. >> than the one. >> that we. >> had with the with canada. >> and mexico in that first round, which did seem to me largely tactical and. >> symbolic more than it. >> did serious about really slapping those tariffs on those countries. >> and mike jong-fast, the wall street journal editorial board, and even mitch mcconnell has written a piece saying, come on, the these are going to hurt people. it already is hurting american consumers right now. >> one of the problems with inflation is that there aren't that many tools. >> in. >> the toolbox. >> when you. >> are, you know. >> rates are the big one. >> and then. >> you have. >> interest rates. and then. >> once you go. down that. >> rabbit hole, it's not that easy. and you saw. that was a problem that biden world had. >> too, right? >> which was how can you cap prices? right. >> what can you do to make. >> things cheaper. >> and but what you what does.

>> not make things cheaper. >> is trade wars. >> no, not at all. jonathan lemire. >> no, they're not. >> and we could be on the. >> brink of another one this afternoon. all right. time now for a look at the morning papers. the los angeles times reports that the. >> u.s. army corps. >> of engineers. >> will not. >> order soil testing at properties damaged by the. eaton and palisades fires after they have. >> been cleaned. >> by private federal contractors. that breaks with a long standing safeguard. >> that makes sure that no toxic chemicals remain. instead, officials said, removing the top. six inches of topsoil. >> is sufficient. stay in. california the. >> san francisco chronicle. >> reports that the state's wine industry had its worst grape harvest in 20 years. >> the 2.8 million tons. >> of grapes, down 23%. >> from the. >> year prior. and is the smallest in two decades. experts cite. >> an. >> oversupply combined with a global downturn.

>> in. >> wine sales. >> as the main factors. and in. >> neighboring nevada. the las vegas review-journal reports that gasoline prices are expected. >> to increase. >> $0.40 per. >> gallon in the coming weeks, and may rise. >> even higher. >> in the near future. >> issues with oil refineries. >> in california. and the annual switch from. >> winter to. summer blend. gasoline are the main factors driving the price spike, and the arkansas democrat gazette reports a proposal to allow the state's universities to hold raffles to generate. >> money to. >> pay their. >> student athletes. >> failed to pass out of a. >> house committee. >> the bill would have allowed schools. >> to conduct online. >> and in-person raffles during. >> sporting events, giving. athletic departments an. >> additional source of revenue. >> reflection of the new reality. >> of college sports. as players are. >> getting paid. >> and i'm not loving it. all right. coming up on morning joe, president trump spoke with russian president vladimir putin

for over an hour yesterday. what the two discussed and what it means for the war in ukraine. defense secretary pete hegseth made a major declaration yesterday, dashing ukraine's hopes for nato membership. we'll play those comments for you and get reporting from nbc's keir simmons. when morning joe simmons. when morning joe returns. this is steve. steve takes voquezna. this is steve's stomach, where voquezna can kick some acid, heal erosive esophagitis, also known as erosive gerd, and relieve related heartburn. voquezna is the first and only fda-approved treatment of its kind. 93% of adults were healed by 2 months. of those healed, 79% stayed healed. plus, voquezna can provide heartburn-free days and nights, and is also approved to relieve heartburn related to non-erosive gerd. other serious stomach conditions may exist.

don't take if allergic to voquezna or while on rilpivirine. serious allergic reactions include trouble breathing, rash, itching, and swelling of face, lips, tongue, or throat. serious side effects may include kidney problems, intestinal infection, fractures, life-threatening skin reactions, low b-12 or magnesium levels, and stomach growths. tell your doctor about your medical conditions, medications, and if you have diarrhea, persistent stomach pain or fever, decreased or bloody urine, seizures, dizziness, irregular heartbeat, jitteriness, chills, shortness of breath, muscle aches or weakness, spasms of hands, feet, or voice. voquezna can help kick some acid, and so can you. ask your doctor about voquezna. tap into etsy ask your doctor for original and affordable home and style pieces like like lighting under 150 dollars to brighten your vibe. for under 100 dollars, put your best look forward with vintage jackets. or pick up custom shelving for under 50 to make space without emptying your pockets.

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>> for. >> the ones who get it done. >> 35 past the hour. look at chicago for you this morning. pretty day. a federal judge has ruled that the trump administration's deferred resignation program, offering

buyouts to millions of federal workers, can move forward. nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander has the latest. >> this morning, president trump and billionaire elon musk's plan to reshape the federal government entering a new phase. >> we want to restore. >> the rule of the people. >> the trump administration, closing the window for its program, offering. deferred resignations to federal employees after a judge cleared the program's way yesterday. >> the white house. >> says 75,000 workers have taken the deal, though nbc news cannot independently verify that number. the administration had warned that those who did not take its buyout offer could face layoffs. >> this is what president. >> trump campaigned on doing. >> and overnight, musk, previewing even more dramatic changes. >> we do need to. >> delete entire agencies. >> government agencies cannot be shut down without congress's approval. but the president has given musk tremendous power. >> i'm going to ask elon to tell

you a little bit about it. >> and musk's team at. >> the so-called. >> department of government efficiency has gained access to major parts of the u.s. government, including the treasury and recently, the department of education that provides help to schools throughout the country. president trump has called it a con job, and cnbc reports, according to department employees, that musk's team there has taken over leader's offices, even setting up noise machines to muffle their voices. >> all of it. >> as democrats object. >> it's a demolition plan that's going to run through our government. >> the administration is already scaling back at places like nasa. according to an internal memo, and staff says cuts of newer employees are happening at the department of housing and urban development that oversees rental help for americans and assists low income families. and yesterday, the white house instructed foreign service workers to follow the president's priorities or face discipline or separation as musk weighs in on foreign.

>> policy overnight. >> with the new administration, there's less. interest in interfering with the affairs of. >> of other countries. >> america should mind its own business. >> hours after president trump in the oval office spoke about his involvement with the russia-ukraine war negotiations, saying he'd spoken with both countries leaders and would meet with russian president vladimir putin. >> i just want to see people stop getting killed. >> president trump, also appearing to rule out nato membership for. >> ukraine. >> which would be a major victory for putin. >> i don't think it's practical to have it personally. >> all right. nbc's peter alexander with that report. let's bring in from dubai nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons. keir, those comments from the president and the defense secretary raising concerns about america's commitment to security overseas. your analysis? >> well. >> peter laid. >> it out. >> very well there. >> but there's much more to what

defense secretary hague said, beyond just simply saying that ukraine would never be a member of nato, which you could say you could see coming. what he also said was that as well as there not being u.s. troops on the ground in ukraine, any european or non-european force that was there to maintain security for ukraine, could not be a nato mission and couldn't be protected by article five. in other words, you just think about the beginning of the ukraine war and all of the concern that perhaps russia would fire a missile, that it would kill some european troops or hit a european installation of some nature, and that that would then trigger article five and that that would pull nato into a war with russia. well, hegseth is saying there that even if we have some kind of a security force in ukraine, that can't happen now. look, i think it's also worth just pointing out that the defense secretary

also said, and, you know, given what president trump has said in the past, this is notable that there is no question of a threat to nato or to article five from the trump administration. so the question of whether russia, which is which is now an increasingly powerful military force because of all of that, it has done during this almost three year war, there's no question of russia being to being able to in the future, for example, invade poland and the us not standing by those nato pledges. the question really is about, you know. what would happen in the future for ukraine now. i think another notable aspect of it all, and there's been many, many members of the trump administration in europe in the in recent days. the treasury secretary meeting with. president zelenskyy. how did that conversation go? is there some kind of a deal involving

ukrainian rare earth minerals, for example, trade, which also then opens up the possibility of support, military support, even financial support from the us for ukraine? and then just another aspect of all this, of course, the negotiations. i mean, listen, there's no way of sugaring this. this was a blow for ukraine. but the negotiations haven't started yet. and the kremlin spokesman, dmitry peskov, today making that clear and saying in the call between president trump and president putin, there was no conversation about sanctions against russia being lifted or or any conversation about territory. all of that has to be in what clearly will be now talks. and so there's a lot that we don't we don't know. but there will be a lot happening right now by the ukrainians and, and their allies to try to walk

back a position where president trump has spoken first to president putin, where he is invited president putin to the us before he's invited president zelensky, all of that. and that fundamental question about where about ukraine's seat at the table in any negotiations that i think is, is ang question that diplomats in nato and, and us allies will be working to try to try to shift in the days and weeks ahead. >> nick, you couldn't be more right. the optics of how yesterday went down. trump speaking to putin before zelensky. zelensky getting an audience with the vice president while trump is. >> talking about having multiple. >> meetings with. >> putin, including. >> perhaps at the white. >> house and one. >> in moscow. >> but you hit it to the. >> heart of it there. that's that's really struck a lot of people that it seems like ukraine being. pushed to the sidelines of the negotiations to bring an end to the war. >> of course, that's happening on their home turf. >> we heard from zelensky try to spin his call with putin, saying

it was meaningful. but what are. >> you hearing from kyiv as to how they can sort. >> of reassert their place at the table here? >> well. >> they're trying to do what what pretty much every nation, ally and adversary is trying to do right now with the trump administration. and that is try to bring prizes to the trump administration. so that question of whether ukraine has commodities that would be useful in terms of trade for the us, that that is a i think one of the strategies that ukraine is, is eyeing as a potential way to shift the needle and move the needle to, to shift things. you know, i would widen things a little as well, though, because a lot is happening very dynamically all at once. the news that saudi arabia, mohammed bin salman was involved in helping these negotiations along without kind of reaching any

conclusion. just think about that. so at the point at which saudi arabia was at four in the morning in riyadh, putting out a statement very, very vociferously, pushing back on the trump administration, suggesting that the palestinians should be cleaned out of gaza. the crown prince was also talking with the trump administration about trying to solve, you know, the trying to reach some kind of a to solve the impasse with, with moscow. what does that what does that tell us? and the bigger picture, too, about how the us confronts its greatest adversary, which is china. what role russia plays in that? what role countries like saudi arabia play in that? all of this is in the mix. and i think that's that's an important perspective. it doesn't help, though, if you're ukrainian worrying about your front line. >> no. nbc's keir simmons simmons, thank you very much. appreciate your coming on today. and you heard in peter alexander's report the

developments surrounding the court challenges to a number of moves by the trump administration. we're going to get expert legal analysis on that. plus, attorney general pam bondi says the administration is suing the state of new york. we'll tell you why next on morning joe. >> legal. move. >> and, doug, you'll. >> be back. >> emus can't. >> help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. you're just a. >> flightless bird. >> no. >> he's a dreamer, frank. >> elena kagan and doug. >> well. i'll be. >> that bird really did it. >> that bird really did it. >> only pay where does the time go? where does the time go? until this week,

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>> i'm sorry. >> that i smelled your candle. >> and this. >> is mr. peepers. >> i am tim calhoun. >> i mean. >> well, that's. >> very special. >> why don't you. >> shut up? >> good night. and have a pleasant tomorrow. >> welcome back. about ten minutes now. >> before the top. >> of the hour. >> attorney general pam bondi. >> held her first news conference yesterday, where she announced that the trump administration was. >> taking action. >> against the state. >> of new york. >> we're here today because we have filed charges against the state of new york. we have filed charges against kathy hochul. we have filed charges against letitia james and mark schroeder, who is with the dmv. >> but that's rather misleading. the charges she mentioned is actually the trump administration suing the state of new york and those officials over policies regarding. undocumented migrants. and at the time. of the news. >> conference. >> that lawsuit had not yet been

filed. >> in new york. bondi specifically. >> pointed to the state's green. >> light. >> law, which allows people to get a driver's license regardless of citizenship or legal status. later, she was asked to clarify her statement. about these charges for the new york officials. >> if you don't. >> comply with federal law, we will hold you accountable. we did it to illinois. strike one. strike two is new york. and if you are a. >> state not. >> complying with federal law, you're next. get ready. >> right now, we're just lawsuits. is this going to go further? what kind of punishment are we talking about? >> we have sued. >> them all. we've personally. sued the governor, the attorney general, letitia james, and mark schroeder with dmv. >> joining us now, msnbc and nbc. news legal analyst danny cevallos. danny, first of all, there's a large difference. between filing a lawsuit and filing charges. and you think the attorney general of the united states might know the difference, but setting what perhaps was a verbal blunder

aside, this is the federal government declaring we're. >> going to take on. >> the states. yeah. let's start with the charges. >> i mean. this was mentioned several times. >> i understand maybe you're at the. >> podium, you. >> say something in the moment, but it seems like this was pretty clear that she was referring to charges. and it is true that in different jurisdictions, we have different sort of legal dialects that vary a little from here to there. but i really doubt that in florida, as here, when you say filing charges, especially as a prosecutor, that really. means criminal charges. so i am curious why. number one, she would say it several times. and then number two, i don't know that we really got an answer that the door is. closed on actual criminal charges. she really focused on the existing lawsuit. >> maybe that's. >> what. >> she meant. maybe she means. >> something else is coming down the pike. but this is a lawsuit. challenging new york's law that they say the government says prevents. >> them from. >> handing over information. >> to immigration officials. >> so let's say this wasn't a misstatement, but rather charges. >> could be coming down the

road. >> what would. >> that mean? >> what would that. >> look like? how could. the federal government, the attorney general. >> the department of justice, charge these state officials? >> so we have to engage in some creative thinking here. but if you're the federal government and you have an official, a state official who is. resisting federal law, then you might be able to come up with criminal charges there. but that would be a real stretch, because generally speaking, state officials are acting on behalf of their state government, so they're going to enjoy some degree of immunity. but you'd have to get creative to kind of come up with the charges. it'd be hard for me to come up with them. now, the lawsuit itself is something that i think you could expect, because it's the federal government's prerogative to. >> try and. >> challenge a state's what they perceive to be a state's defiance of federal immigration law. >> so i want to ask you about the federal worker buyout. as we heard earlier in peter alexander's report, a judge cleared the way for the trump administration's program offering deferred resignations to federal employees, ruling the union lacked legal standing to bring the suit. what's your take

on this development? >> courts love. >> to find. >> that a litigant doesn't. have standing, including the supreme court, because it means their job is done much earlier than it would have been if they had to go through all the legal analysis of the merits. and that's exactly what's happening here. in fact, when you dismiss a case on lack of standing and standing, just asks the constitutional question what business is it of yours, plaintiff, to be here in this court? and the court concluded that these unions, who do represent some 800,000 federal workers, they don't didn't have a concrete enough interest. their claim was, hey, we have to divert resources to answer the questions of our union members, and that means we're being hurt by this policy, the court said. that's not quite enough. maybe if you were the employees, you would have an interest. but as the union representing the employees, your interest is too remote. the important thing here is that this has nothing to do with the merits. anytime a case is tossed on article three standing grounds, the case may be the greatest case in the world. it just means these plaintiffs are not the ones to

bring. it doesn't mean some other plaintiffs could bring the exact same case. and it would have merit. yes. but in the meantime, if the case is gone for article three standing. >> that means the administration's. >> plan can go forward. >> all right, so house democrats blasted elon musk at the first doge subcommittee hearing yesterday in the nation's capital. musk did not attend, but democrats were quick to accuse him of breaking the law in his quest to slash government spending that he deems wasteful. >> i mean, really. >> what the heck is going on here? we're not. >> trying to take. >> down elon. >> musk as a businessman. this dude is literally breaking. >> the law. >> inside of the federal government. and for a party that is supposed to be the party of law. >> and order. >> in quotes, i really do. >> not see. >> you holding him accountable and. doing your most. >> basic constitutional responsibility in the separation of powers. >> so republicans on the

subcommittee fiercely defended musk's actions, stating that president trump has a mandate from voters to curb waste, fraud and abuse, and that musk is helping the president to accomplish exactly that. so, molly, you know, a lot of people think getting rid of waste, fraud and abuse is a good idea, but it's how they're doing it, the unlawful way in which they are doing so that i think maybe some have an issue with. >> well. >> and i think. >> what was interesting about. that doge. >> hearing. >> which i listened to, it was it was there was some wild stuff there. but what they were talking about was this idea that there should be. >> accountability and. >> that the idea. >> itself is, is quite popular. my question. >> is some of the. >> you know, the moving. so quickly, the courts. >> have not loved that. >> so talk to us about where doge is in the court system. >> so where we are now is the challenge is basically that you

have doge, which is not an official federal governmental agency. so what degree if they're just providing these advisory type services, to what degree can they even be involved in the government? and worse, at least in the view of these challengers, is that if doge has access to sensitive information, treasury information, that too could be a violation of privacy rights. so that's where we are in. the challenges. and by the way, all of these legal challenges against the trump administration are really in litigation infancy. we're in what i call the stay of the stay, period. in other words, a lot of these courts are granting stays which pause the litigation to preserve the status quo. and then those are challenged. so sometimes you have a stay of a stay and it gets really confusing. and this is all before we've gotten to the merits. the courts are getting clogged up with this. but this is what they're designed to do. >> all right. nbc news and msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos, thank you very much. and that does it for us this morning for jonathan lemire and me. we'll be back bright and early 6 a.m. tomorrow. ana cabrera picks up

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