surprise. there's been so many temporary restraining orders issued by judges, democrat appointed and republican appointed in response to so many of the executive orders in trump's early days. but at the same time, we need to continue to educate and make the public aware of what's going on, what it really means. so community by community, we continue to organize and advocate and frankly, start getting ready for the midterm elections that are going to be just around the corner. >> senator alex padilla, it's always a pleasure to see you. i thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. you can always reach me on social media at balart. and you can watch clips from this show at youtube, at msnbc.com. thank you for the privilege of your time. up next, ali vitale talks to kevin hassett, director of the national economic council, about the president's coming announcement on reciprocal tariffs. ali picks up with more news right now.

>> right now on msnbc reports president trump's fbi. >> nominee kash patel. >> clearing a key senate hurdle and rfk jr. just confirmed as the nation's top health official as well. we'll break down the next steps there. coming up. and the president scores a legal victory as a federal judge restores his deferred resignation program while the justice department moves to push out u.s. attorneys across the country. president trump also expected to announce a new wave of reciprocal tariffs on trading partners today. i'll be joined by the president's top economic advisor to discuss that. and we've got a live report from germany. after a car plowed into a crowd near the munich security conference, leaving dozens injured, all just hours before vice president vance arrives in the city. good day. i'm ali vitali in washington. the nomination of trump loyalist kash patel to be the next fbi

director is now heading to a full senate vote after the judiciary committee this morning gave its stamp of approval. that came straight down along party lines. patel is, of course, among the president's most controversial nominees. remember why he defended far right conspiracy theories, including false claims about the bureau. he is expected to run. patel has also threatened retribution, even publishing what many call a political enemies list. and then there's this new revelation. senator dick durbin, the ranking democrat on the judiciary committee, saying that as a nominee before he was confirmed, because, of course, that hasn't happened yet. patel was behind the recent purge of fbi agents and might have perjured himself during his confirmation hearing before the senate. a final vote on patel's nomination won't happen before tuesday because of the president's day holiday. but just a short time ago, the senate did confirm robert f kennedy jr to be hhs secretary. that confirmation, despite his controversial positions on vaccines and shifting stances on abortion. the only republican no

vote came from senator mitch mcconnell, a childhood survivor of polio, who also voted at this point against pete hegseth and tulsi gabbard's confirmations. so we begin there with nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles. nbc news justice reporter ryan riley and former fbi agent michael clark, who is a 22 year veteran of the bureau and is now the president of the society of former special agents of the fbi. ryan nobles, i want to start with you, because we've got double ryan duty here today. but talk to me about the fact that, once again, we see mitch mcconnell hanging out there on his own, making the lone no vote from the republican side of the aisle. >> yeah, i don't think it's surprising, but i also would argue that. >> it is irrelevant. mitch mcconnell. >> does not have nearly the sway that he once had with his fellow republicans. and ultimately, while it sends a very. strong symbolic message about his. >> own personal story. and his. >> connection to the polio vaccine and how he believes it saved his life, it does not change the outcome even a little

bit. robert f kennedy jr has been confirmed and will be the next director of the agency of health and human services. and so i think in many ways, it's not so much a story about mitch mcconnell bucking donald trump as it is about mitch mcconnell not having nearly the sway that he once did with the republican caucus. he used to be able to single handedly pull 20, 25 republican votes simply by saying or taking a position on something, and he was always measured in that approach. but he did a lot of arm wrestling behind the scenes to get his fellow senators to the place where he wanted them to be. and mcconnell has been very vocal about how he wants to leave an imprint and a legacy on this place in however long he is going to be here. but it doesn't appear that he made any strong effort behind the scenes to even convince some of his fellow republicans who might have been like minded about some of these nominees, to vote no. and he refused to talk to us about it leading up to it. it made no real strong statement, one way or the other as to how he was

going to vote. just let his vote speak for itself. it's a tactic. it's a decision that he made. but ultimately it had no impact on whether or not robert f kennedy jr or tulsi gabbard, for that matter, were going to join the trump administration. and it's also perhaps a foreshadowing of what could happen with kash patel here in the next couple of days. >> yeah. with mcconnell, the more things change, the more they also stay the same. ryan nobles but ryan riley, he teased us. he teed us up on kash patel because patel, of course, has this so-called enemies list and has been accused by senator durbin of orchestrating behind the scenes those recent fbi purges. durbin citing whistleblowers for that. but how real is the fear that career fbi members won't be able to push back, as it appears patel is on a glide path for confirmation regardless? >> yeah, i mean, there's a lot of fear, definitely, i think, within the fbi right now. it's safe to say, you know, there's the targeting of potentially probationary employees at the fbi. so that means people who've been there less than two years, they had to generate these lists

to send up to the trump administration. and that's where he makes people worry that those individuals are going to be targeted. and that would have devastating consequences for years within the bureau and really get rid of that, that feeder going into doj. and then in terms of the targeting, you know, you know, kash patel has spread conspiracy theories about january 6th itself. there's also this list that was ordered up of everyone who worked on these january 6th cases. so there's a lot of concern with within the fbi about about how all these cases are going to be handled, even though, you know, there was some dispute within the fbi about those january 6th cases, while most of the cases of assault against officers, that's something that had broad support within the bureau, as i think it probably has amongst the american people. there were some controversies over just, you know, the approach that the bureau was taking to this and some discrepancies and issues from out in the field. but really, i think, you know, the targeting of all of these career employees has united the field a little bit more with headquarters from the individuals i'm talking to. but there's a lot of worry about

what's ahead under a fbi director, kash patel. >> well, michael, given the landscape that ryan just laid out for us, do you think patel will have the support of fbi rank and file and explain the impact that this is already having on agents morale? >> sure. and ryan. >> has very good. >> sources because he's. >> absolutely correct. with many of his statements. >> patel. we want patel to be successful. we want the director. >> to. >> you know, come in, hit the ground running and do a great job. and so the agents. >> will certainly, you know, do their job and take any lawful actions that are out there. and there's certainly concerns by the agents with these lists of agents that went over. and also the idea of the probationary agents. i mean, if you let go all the probationary agents, that's 10% of the fbi. and that would have devastating consequences on any number of

cases, you know? and, you know, terrorism always jumps off the page. but 10% that that would be an untenable thing for the fbi. >> that's speaking to the efficacy of the workforce. if we start to see these kinds of cuts continue to go through. but, michael, one of the concerns here with kash patel, and this was also something pam bondi faced in her confirmation hearings to lead the department of justice overall, is the concern over a dissolution of traditional norms that separate, in this case, the fbi, from the white house. what would it look like if those are gone and people's worst concerns are confirmed? >> well, that would be an interesting concept. the fbi, the onboard agents were used to changes in administration, changes in direction. and that's where you, you you hope that when a new director steps in and gets into that big chair, that they see how serious and how significant, you know, what we are doing to protect the

american people is and that they won't, you know, become political. the fbi gets in trouble when they become political. and so that's we want to stay in our lane, which is to protect the american people. >> and then ryan riley, meanwhile, with a new administration, generally comes new instruction to existing u.s. attorneys. you reported that several u.s. attorneys were actually fired overnight. again, most administrations replace these positions. but you say there's something unusual about it this time. explain to viewers what that is. >> yeah, that's exactly right. it's, you know, you would expect the departure of individuals who are nominated and confirmed by the senate during the previous administration to depart, but normally it's sort of this orderly transition. you know, when biden came into office, he actually gave the justice department rather gave these u.s. attorneys three weeks to sort of get their affairs in order to make sure there was this smooth transition out before they were asked to resign. and asked to resign is the key phrase there, because

that's not what happened last night. last night you had a directive directly from the white house. so that's unusual to begin with, because typically this has been done within the justice department. and saying that people were immediately terminated. now, a number of the individuals were biden appointees. so they eventually, you know, would have been out anyway. but there's at least one individual who was a court appointed u.s. attorney. and i think that's where we could sort of see some some issues going down the line, because that's something that's very unusual to have, you know, the targeting by the president of someone who is a court appointed u.s. attorney directly. this is usually something handled within the justice department. so another one of those sort of oddities and just something to watch out for. ali. >> yeah. ryan riley, it's so important the way that you help us understand what's abnormal, what's normal about what we're seeing right now out of this administration, because there's a flurry of action. but, michael, you take those firings on top of multiple ones for fbi officials and january 6th prosecutors. it all has a major impact on the overall talent pipeline in law enforcement. are you concerned about that? and also, it lends to this erosion

of trust in these institutions. that's a piece of this, too, right? >> yes. and the fbi has has had an erosion of trust. and part of it is something that we hope will be able to combat and, you know, to keep serving, you know, the public, the american people. and with the firing of the u.s. attorneys, while this is very abrupt, you know, more so than it's been in the past. once again, that's something agents become accustomed to. and we work with whoever you know is, you know, is brought in. so that's not as drastic as as perhaps losing personnel. would be devastating it already. i mean, we've already lost the up almost 200 years of experience with with the director, the deputy and many of the executive assistant directors. you know, having retired or resigned. >> it is so stark when you put

it that way, 200 years of experience. the thing that i have consistently heard is just a fear of brain drain from these places that rely so much on institutional knowledge. ryan nobles, ryan riley, and michael clarke, thank you all for joining us. and in 90s, we'll get a live report from munich with the latest from that shocking incident just outside of a global security conference leaving dozens injured. you're watching msnbc. >> that's $225 for the night. >> not bad. >> $155 for the night. >> how? >> it's easy when you know where to look. >> trivago compares. >> hotel prices from hundreds of sites so you can save up to 40%. hotel trivago. >> looking for ways to keep active and mobile. try. penetrates. penetrates is different than other products with no greasiness irritation or unpleasant odors. made with unique ingredients, it's 100% unique ingredients, it's 100% satisfaction if you're living with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis or active psoriatic arthritis

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germany today, where 28 people were injured after a vehicle slammed into a crowd of people. officials say the suspected driver is a 24 year old afghan man who was seeking asylum there. police say he allegedly intentionally plowed a white car into a group of protesters. that attack happened less than a mile from where world leaders, including vice president j.d. vance, are gathering for the annual munich security conference. joining me now, nbc news national security correspondent courtney qb, who is in munich covering that conference, and former cia officer marc polymeropoulos. he's a nonresident senior fellow at the atlantic council. courtney, first to you, what can you tell us about the attack and what else do we know about the suspect? >> ali, that white car was just towed away only moments ago. it's been sitting here all day since the driver plowed that small white mini cooper into a crowd of pedestrians right at the intersection behind me. now, this was a group of people who

had gathered to protest, calling for higher wages. but what's not clear, still, ali, is whether they were targeted because they were protesting or they simply presented a target of opportunity as a group of people who are all together in in a small area. now, he plowed this driver, as you mentioned, a 24 year old afghan. he was seeking asylum here in germany. but officials say they were aware of him. they were familiar with him because of a history of some criminal offenses, including some drug offenses. it's not clear again what his motivation was for doing this, but 28 people were injured, at least in this attack. and as you mentioned, the governor here of bavaria said it does appear that this attack was intentional. ali. >> so then how is this impacting security at the conference? a lot of high level leaders there, including zelenskyy, we mentioned vice president pence. what's the impact there? >> yeah. so this is always a conference that has just the highest security. we've been coming to this for years. and

there's a tremendous there are rings after ring after ring of security perimeters just to get close to the venue, just to get close to the conference site. the whole city actually really is focused on the conference every single year during this week. i do expect the security will be just as high this year as it has been because as you mentioned, every year we have presidents, vice presidents, secretaries of state and defense who are coming for this world leaders literally. i mean that leaders from all over this world come here. it's an extremely high security event, and i don't expect that to be any different. according to secret service, they are not at this point. they don't see any direct impact to vice president jd vance. but we'll see as the conference moves on. ali. >> yeah, always a heightened sense of security. but mark, this is the second vehicle ramming incident in germany in just the past few months. we've of course, also seen this kind of attack before in a number of cities, including recently across the united states. i mean, how can an attack like this be prevented or can they?

>> so this is kind of the terrorist or extremist, you know, modus operandi of choice now. and why is that, ali? well, it's because it's cheap. it doesn't cost any money. you're taking a vehicle which. >> is. >> several thousand pounds, and it's a it's a weapon in and of itself. it doesn't need any kind of training to do this. there's no cell. >> structure. >> there's no communications involved. and so what we've seen over the years from multiple groups such as al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, of course, isis, they do use this as as a very effective tactic, because it's so hard, as we've seen with the controversy in new orleans, you know, vehicle barriers usually are put up, but that's not always effective. in this case, it seems like this individual, the suspect was following some some a police vehicle that then went into the into the protest. and so this is something that at this point doesn't seem to be, you know, connected to the munich security conference, which is a good thing. but the german investigators, they have the suspect in custody. they will debrief, interrogate him, see if

there's any terrorist ties. it's a pretty effective security service in bavaria. and so they'll get to the bottom of this. >> but the suspect here, mark, is an afghan immigrant, as we said. and the attack is happening in a country where there is growing anti-immigrant sentiment. does that combination concern you? >> it absolutely does. i was on the phone with some contacts in germany. look, they're ten days out from an election, and there's a rise in germany of the german far right party, the afd. i think they're polling second now, but this is absolutely going to affect the german election, you know, migration and the, you know, the ties to crime that's happening is something that the german right has been speaking quite a bit about. they're certainly going to use this. and then there's one other factor as well, ali, because we've seen elon musk even weigh in on german politics. and i haven't seen to check i haven't checked my twitter feed yet, but he will be weighing in on this and probably not in a positive fashion. >> yeah, that is likely. if past

is prolog, we'll be looking out for that too. marc polymeropoulos and courtney kuby on the ground in munich. thank you both for joining us. coming up next, after a big win in court for elon musk's buyout program, the white house fights the next wave of legal battles over the president's agenda. over the president's agenda. you're watching msnbc. (vo 1) when you really philosophize about it, there's one thing you don't have enough of, and that's time. time is a truly scarce commodity. when you come to that realization, i think it's very important to spend time wisely. and what better way of spending time than traveling, continuing to educate ourselves and broaden our minds. (vo 2) viking. exploring the world in comfort. clinically proven formula penetrates the nail for results penetrates the nail for results you can see

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to my “dessert ideas” note. that's what you chose to ask it? i had other things planned. ask how to get up to one thousand dollars off the new samsung galaxy s25 ultra with xfinity mobile. >> citizens of. >> the country. >> we are all. >> watching and waiting to see who is going to hold the line. >> don't miss the weekends, saturday. >> and sunday mornings at 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> president trump's first 100 days. watch. >> i'm going to be here five days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up half the night, reading executive orders. >> for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> i want to go back to capitol hill right now because members of the senate health, labor, education and pensions or health committee are grilling linda mcmahon, who is president

trump's nominee to lead the department of education, amid president trump floating the possibility of dismantling that department altogether. the former worldwide wrestling entertainment ceo would not commit to maintaining or getting rid of the department that she's looking to lead. >> let me just once. >> again get. >> your feelings. >> on this. >> that if there is a movement to abolish. >> the. department of education. >> it has. >> to go through the united states congress. >> yes. the it is set up by the united states congress, and we work with congress. it clearly cannot be shut down without it. >> joining us now, nbc's vaughn hillyard from a hallway in capitol hill. man, i know it well. but look, this is kind of awkward nomination, right? because she is in the position of having to defend that. she wants the role to lead an agency that it seems like the president aspires to not have her job even exist anymore within the next months, year or end of his term. that's a real tension point that most nominees don't have to deal with.

>> right. and the part about this is these halls are a little more interesting around capitol hill, just because, by and large, the responsibility that usually when it comes to trying to eliminate a department or an agency that comes down to a congressional authorization or approval, and that's where we have heard directly from elon musk and backed by president trump, the suggestion that they will seek to eliminate the department of education, the very department which he nominated, linda mcmahon, his former small business administrator from his first administration, to oversee. and this is where, in questioning, she said that she still will seek in her capacity, if confirmed, to implement the policies of the trump administration and funding that has already been appropriated by congress. but she will also back the effort to, through congress, to dismantle the department of education. and so this is where she is providing the answers. you could say that perhaps members of congress would be

looking for, but there is little reason to believe that there would be any republicans here at this point in time, whether it be on this committee or when the vote goes to the full senate. ali, to stop her confirmation. so for linda mcmahon, she has been wholly acknowledging on the day after the president trump was inaugurated, she stood outside the department of education and suggested that this was all but the end. there was some setting the department of education. and so he clearly has somebody in this capacity, if she is confirmed, who will seek to support the very effort that would lead to not only a crippling of its operations, but also a downsizing of the staff? >> yeah, effectively working her way out of a job. vaughn hillyard, thank you. meanwhile, a federal judge lifted his pause on the trump administration's programoffer bouts to millions of federal workers. that same judge had temporarily halted president trump's offer of deferred resignations after labor unions representing federal workers filed a lawsuit challenging the buyouts. the white house says now about

75,000 federal employees accepted the offer of resignation, though nbc news has no way to independently confirm that number. joining me now, nbc news senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell and the host of talking feds podcast, former u.s. attorney harry litman. thanks to both of you for joining us. kelly, what happens now? what can federal workers expect between now and september? >> well, there are. >> a lot. >> of questions here, because the white house is believing that this is one of the rare victories they've had thus far from the courts, and they're running with it, so they want to move forward. the window for federal workers to sign up for this deferred resignation program has now closed. and that's how they're giving us that 75,000 number that we just don't have a way of gauging or counting independently. the big questions include things like congress has not appropriated the money to pay these employees from the date they would leave daily service until the end of september, which is the offer that was made that have benefits

and money through what is the remainder of the fiscal year of the government. so we don't know how they're going to accomplish that. so that's saying yes to the deal before the deal is funded. so that's a big question. it's also possible that because the in this case, the judge said the unions did not have standing, individual federal employees would have standing, meaning they have something on the line in the issues of the case. and so it's possible there will be other litigation that could perhaps come forward. we just don't know that yet. but the unions themselves that represent these employees were not considered to have the standing required to have an ongoing order halting this program. so if you're a federal worker and you took this offer, there are some questions. there's a leap of faith here at a time when the trump administration has clearly been very tough on federal workers, often accusing them of not coming in to the office and being a part of excess. and so

federal workers who want to step away, or those who have other options, or those who might think that their department could be closing, they may be the ones seeking this sort of opportunity. >> kelly o'donnell, perfectly setting the scene here, both on the concerns about this offer's validity, which i have heard so many times from democratic lawmakers. but then also, harry, the judge did say, as kelly mentioned, that unions who brought this suit didn't have the standing. so could this be revived down the line? >> 100%. >> ali. >> and i would say. down the line might. >> be in a matter. >> of a day or two. kelly's two points. >> are. >> really connected. >> all the judge. >> said the administration. >> is saying. the legality has now. >> been settled. >> it hasn't. >> all the judge. >> said is. >> you unions. >> here. >> you're not personally. >> being as a union harmed. >> we need other plaintiffs. >> so nothing about. >> the law. >> and the. >> reason i think. >> you see the. >> administration racing to. >> say, oh, it's all. >> over. >> it's all done. >> is because that means you. >> can't enjoin it.

>> going forward, though. >> you could. >> still get damages. >> but since. >> it. >> really isn't a done. >> deal. >> i think you'll see. >> a new plaintiffs. >> coming in. >> saying. >> i've been hurt. >> by this. >> this affects me personally. >> and b. >> we can still stop. >> it. >> because it's really nowhere near a done deal that the administration wants to suggest. >> it is. >> yeah, because basically, the judge's challenge here is to take away the 1 degrees of separation between the people who are being harmed or impacted by this legislation. the trump administration is trumpeting this as a win, but there are multiple lawsuits that are facing them, including this new one filed by norm eisen's group, broadly challenging doj's actions. they're charging that what what dodge is doing is unconstitutional because none of the employees were actually nominated by president trump, nor were they confirmed by the senate, effectively making a process argument. how strong is that, harry? >> well, first, it's really interesting. it's a conservative hobby. >> horse, actually, to say. >> oh, when you get to be a big. >> enough. >> powerful enough.

>> official in government. >> you can't you have. >> to be. >> confirmed by congress. >> that is. >> in the constitution. so what. >> norm and company and man, they are working overtime. on all. >> these things are. >> saying is you now that now that musk has been made sort of first among. equals in the. whole cabinet, he. >> has to be. >> nominated and confirmed by the congress like everything else. that's a practical kind of test. and we've never had somebody like musk before. an unelected. >> sort of, you. >> know, co-president. >> and so i think it's going to be a strong argument what the administration will come and say back. oh, he's just unofficial. he's not really doing stuff. he's just. giving us advice. but that certainly. >> doesn't seem. to be what. >> the. >> facts on the ground. >> suggest, right? he seems to be exercising. >> all kinds of official power. >> that's the kind of officer who. >> needs approval from congress. >> and i imagine, harry, that's one of the ways that that oval office q&a that musk and trump did side by side, could be

revived in a court capacity, will be watching all of that. kelly o'donnell and harry litman. thank you. >> thanks. thanks, kelly. >> and this afternoon, president trump is teasing a big announcement happening in the next hour. reciprocal tariffs on u.s. trading partners. the details are scarce, but the idea is hiking tariffs on imports to match the rate that other countries charge for american products. the move comes ahead of the president's meeting today with the prime minister of india, which has a trade surplus with the united states. the president has also called india a tariff king and a big abuser of trade ties. but critics worry the cost of the tariffs will ultimately be passed down to american consumers, who are being hammered right now by rising inflation. joining me now to hopefully add some more details to this conversation, white house national economic council director kevin hassett. kevin, thank you for joining us. i'll start with the obvious question, which is what do you expect these reciprocal tariffs to look like? can you give us some examples. >> oh for sure. >> and our expectation. >> is that there's going to be a meeting in the oval.

>> any moment now. and so i think when i'm done here that we're probably heading over there. and then you'll find out everything you need to know about all this. but but of course, it's great to share the president's great ideas right now as well. the bottom line is that if you look at the tariff that we charge other countries, that it's a very, very low number, depending on exactly how you do the math. it's sort of let's call it two and a half to 3% on all products that come into the us, and that most of our trading partners are way above that, often by a multiple of two, and even really close friends of ours all over europe and so on are charging six and so on. and taiwan, i think it's 11. india is a number that's very, very high. it's going to be my guess right now, say 20. and so the point is that president trump has always felt like that people need to treat americans with respect, and that if they're charging us a big, big cost, if we sell stuff over there that's much bigger than what we charge them. if they

bring stuff over here so that it's disrespectful and it's something that should change. and so. >> kevin. >> is that. yeah. >> sorry to interrupt you, but is that then on a good by good basis, if one rate is at 11% or one rate is at 20, are you going product by product and matching tariffs from every other country? how would this exactly work? >> that's the kind of detail that will come out once the eo is out. and then the ustr and the commerce department start to enact the actual reciprocal trade. but but for now, the idea that i think that we all agree about is that that we should treat people. it's like the golden rule, treat people the way that they treat you. and i recognize you well. yeah. >> i recognize not wanting to get in front of the president, but we had seen some reporting from our friends at cnbc that these tariffs would not go into place immediately. there would be some weeks or months between maybe april 1st as a date for them to begin. is that right?

>> you're going to see timing and all the information you want on that, you know, within the hour. so yes, i can't get ahead of the president who's about to talk about this on the oval sometime soon. >> i wondered if you might say that. so then i want to ask a broader. >> question here. yes, it's the. >> correct answer. that's okay. i want to ask a broader question here, though, because nearly all economists have said that tariffs will be bad for the american consumer. so what does the president know here on tariffs that seemingly every other economist doesn't? >> that it's just it's just false that it's necessarily bad for consumers. and a way to think about it is imagine right now we did the estimate that last year us companies, us companies, us based companies paid foreign governments $370 billion in taxes. meanwhile, foreign companies paid the us $57 billion in taxes. so we mailed foreign governments $370 billion in taxes. and those taxes are being paid for by us citizens. and so if you think

that that asymmetry is something that could be addressed, could be improved upon, and if we did that, it would be good for us citizens. is it good for us citizens to mail $270 billion to them, while they're sending 57 billion to us? are we supposed to keep doing that because of some economic model that doesn't have the whole real world in it, that says that we're better off because of inflation? if we keep sending $370 billion to foreign governments, it just doesn't make sense. and so if you'd like, we could go to the blackboard and talk about the economic modeling and the elasticity of supply versus demand and all that stuff. but but i usually save that for ali velshi. >> i will happily. >> happily as a fellow av you and you can do whiteboards and blackboards with both of us. but then. given the fact that you say this is false, can you, without invoking the past administration, guarantee that prices won't rise because of these tariffs? >> i, you know, prices move up, prices move down. that's the way the world works, right? the economy. >> but you're an economist. you forecast trends like.

>> no, no. >> so will. >> consumers see prices rise. >> my expectation is that prices will fluctuate. and that when economists study the fluctuations of the prices that they'll wonder what the causes were. and there will be many and so am i confident that there won't be strong evidence of a price effect of tariffs? yes, i am confident. >> but there's also a cbs news poll that shows a majority, 66% who say the president, not biden, but trump isn't doing enough to lower prices. so what do you say to them, given this landscape of more tariffs likely coming? >> well, i'm always very respectful of what people say. and the fact is that we just found out last week, for example, that the biden jobs record was a million jobs, fewer than we thought. and we found out yesterday that the last print of inflation that was during president biden's administration was way higher than the fed or anyone expected. and so inflation got out of control. stagflation emerged in the previous administration, and

we're fixing it with an all of the above strategy. and what we're doing is we're fixing macroeconomic policy with the reconciliation bill. i was up speaking with the speaker of the house yesterday. we're going to reduce spending, the inflationary spending, but also have a big increase in supply because supply, increased supply, you know, that lowers prices, reduced government spending, that helps lower prices. that's the macro effect. but we're also looking at every other little thing that we can look at, including deregulation and even the price of eggs and what we can do about avian flu. it turns out that president biden's team didn't have an avian flu strategy, and now we're about to have one. as soon as brooke rollins is at the department of agriculture. and so in the end, though, i agree with your point that if people still believe what that poll said six, seven, eight months from now, then we should of course be concerned about that. but i expect that they won't because they're going to see the positive effect of all these things. and then finally, it's not just me. if you look at what's happening to the ten year treasury, which is the best guesstimate of whether we're going to get inflation under control or not, it's gone down

about 40 basis points over the last couple of weeks as our policy announcements have come out, and that 40 basis points has saved american taxpayers just in the last two weeks, going forward for the year, $40 billion, 40 billion. so there's $40 billion that financial markets say that we don't have to spend next year because of positive sentiment about our inflationary or inflationary measures, disinflationary measures. and so that's that's good news for me. but the proof will be in the pudding. we have to get that stuff enacted. and then it's got to work the way we expect. and kevin highly confident it will. >> you mentioned many things that i would love to talk with you more about, but far be it for me to keep you to keep you from the oval. i do have one question though. that should be a quick answer. when you talk about dealing with inflationary measures, it's why jerome powell has said he does not want to continue to decrease rates. do you agree that he's the man for the moment right now at the fed? >> i've known him for a long time, and that really is a judgment for the president. and i've not discussed it in this term with him yet. i haven't, but i will. >> kevin hassett, get to the

oval. thank you. >> thank you. bye bye. >> and still ahead, we'll bring you president trump's comments at the top of the hour. on that topic we were just discussing with kevin hassett. hassett. they'll be live from the oval office. plus we'll talk to the top democrat on the senate budget committee, jeff merkley of oregon, about how those tariffs, as well as the president's plans for gaza and ukraine are being metabolized on the hill. you're watching msnbc. >> when i go to the salon, i'm not just getting my nails done. i'm also getting the best gossip, like how tanya broke up with her boyfriend because he got busted. or that my girl chelsea has still not called carshield for her out of warranty vehicle. carshield offers plans that pay for repairs on up to 5000 parts in your car. because we all know it's not if your car is going to break down, but when. and you got to call carshield before your car breaks down like chelsea's nails over there. you need a whole new set. >> best of all, you'll get access to carshield concierge service, where they help you find a certified repair shop near. >> you so you don't have to lift

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farmers trying to keep bird flu out of their coops. nbc's erin mclaughlin has that story. >> and wagon. >> wheel farm. >> in upstate new york. >> farmer jason tao knows his eggs are expensive. >> i never thought i'd see the day where a dozen eggs cost more than a bale of hay. >> the five and a half dollars he charged for a dozen back in may became $7 in october. and now it's $8 a dozen. tao says he has no choice but to pass along the cost of protecting his flock of 500 chickens across the country. more than 21 million chickens died due to bird flu since december, just weeks ago was found on a chicken farm, a county away from wagon wheel. and so tao is ramping up security, sanitizing footwear, sporting gloves and installing roofs over his coops. >> we're always. watching for it. >> so far, so good. >> so far. >> so good. >> there's the goal to protect his farm from wild birds. known carriers of the virus. >> there's any wild birds. >> that land on top? they're not

going to cross contaminate with any droppings down into the chicken runs. >> he spent thousands on biosecurity. the cost passed along to his consumers. tao says the main price pressure for his eggs, replacing older hens that no longer lay profitably. those costs have skyrocketed. and for americans struggling with inflation, fatigue, the doubling of egg prices is an added shock. >> i don't get it. >> and i can't. afford it. >> so i eat a lot less. >> and pay a little more. >> and that's when people can even find eggs. retailers trader joe's and costco now limiting how many eggs a customer can buy. meanwhile, back at wagonwheel farm, do you worry you're going to have to charge even more if this keeps going? >> that's already on the horizon. >> tonight at chicken farms across the u.s, they're scrambling to keep the bird flu at bay while bracing for the cost of eggs to climb even

higher. >> thanks to erin mclaughlin for that reporting. coming up next, the top democrat on the senate budget committee joins us to talk about how his party is planning to push back on the president's plans. you're watching msnbc. >> everyone needs a vacation eventually. and when i need a hotel. >> trivago compares hotel prices from hundreds of sites so you can save up to 40%. can save up to 40%. >> smart. simple. two of my tap into etsy for home and style staples to help you set any vibe. from custom lighting under 150 dollars to vintage jackets under 100. for affordable pieces to help you make a fresh start, etsy has it. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that's why every book belongs on the shelf.

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priorities. joining me now is the top democrat on the senate budget committee, jeff merkley of oregon, who also serves on the foreign relations committee. senator, thank you for joining us from the senate. democrat view on the budget committee. is this the approach that you think republicans are ultimately going to go with as they try to accomplish their reconciliation goals? >> well, what we're seeing is them using defense and homeland security as a trojan horse, because the real goal here is to provide an avenue through which they can then do. as the house said yesterday, some 1.5 to $2 trillion in cuts to spending on programs families depend on on, on health care and housing and education and child care. these fundamentals that let families stand on their feet and move with vigor into the middle class, that's their target. and it's produce, if you will. some of the money cut the programs for families, produce some of the money that's going to go to tax cuts for the billionaires. they're talking about 4.5

trillion. so let's let's do the basic math here. let's say 2 trillion in spending cuts to family programs, 4.5 trillion in giveaways, mostly to billionaires. and what do you have in in between there you have borrowing of two and a half to $3 trillion. so run. so it's a three part plan cut programs for families and rich the richest americans and run up the debt. that's what they're doing. but they they want to give it a veneer of respectability. and that's to talk about homeland security, defense. those are things that would be done in the normal appropriations process with bipartisan support. they're being used here as a smokescreen to cover up this assault on families, this run up of the debt, and this strategy of giving away the nation to the billionaires. >> because we're talking here about potential cuts. if these reconciliation plans go through two programs like snap, like medicaid, like student loan debt forgiveness, some of those key democratic priorities from prior legislation that was passed in

recent years. but with your party in the minority in both the house and the senate, is there any opportunity to get democratic priorities into these kinds of packages? i know that reconciliation is really a partizan process to begin with. >> it's 100% partizan process, which democrats. >> have used as of recently. >> yes. and, you know, we have used it always to reduce the deficit, which is what it was created for in 1974, with one exception. and that's when our economy was collapsing under covid, and we needed to produce programs to help the business community, small businesses stay alive. programs stay alive, stay, stay afloat during the covid collapse. so but now what we see is every time the republicans are in power, they are using this filibuster free pathway that was created to reduce the deficit, to do the opposite, to give tax breaks for the wealthiest americans and run up the debt. to your question about our priorities. well, what we're going to see is our priorities are going to be attacked, and we're going to

illuminate this, and we're going to illuminate it with the goal of mobilizing people across this country, because this is not what trump campaigned on. he didn't campaign on on cutting community health centers and making drugs more expensive and housing more expensive and head start more difficult, and school lunches more rare, or the cost of college higher. he didn't campaign on those things. so here we have the great betrayal. he campaigned on helping families, but now we see the real strategy attack the programs for families that are necessary for families to stand on their feet and thrive and give away the bank to the richest americans. and we're going to oppose it. we're going to publicize it. we're going to stall it. we're going to create many wedges and divisions as we can, because this is not in the interest of government by and for the people. this is government by and for the billionaires. >> and we've also seen democrats take similar efforts to try to gum up the process. you are in the minority. you're not afforded many ways of pushing back, but one of them is on the floor overnight for the rfk jr

nomination. you know, i think there's been a conversation in washington about that's how you'll proceed on reconciliation. but then when it comes to government funding, the appropriations process, or whether it's kicking the can down the road ahead of march 14th, that government funding deadline, there's been a lot of talk about democrats saying, well, they might be willing to shut down the government as a leverage point. i guess myon is. >> ali. it's the republicans in charge. the government has shut down. it's because the government in charge shuts it down. and because they're pursuing ends that we simply can't support. but it's republicans who have to decide. >> but i think the conversation around democrats using that as a leverage point, because it's on the calendar, what would you use it for leverage on? >> well, listen, it's never going to be business as usual when the president is breaking the law every single day. i mean, these are these are not questions of, oh, a little bit of gray area about where executive power meets congressional power. for

example, president biden was criticized over his student loan forgiveness program. there was a legal case to say it was was was possible. there was another legal case to say it wasn't. it had to be done by the courts. it was a gray area. but what we're seeing now, for example, in the firing of the inspector generals, it's absolutely clear. the law says you cannot fire them without 30 days notice and without cause. that's to protect the integrity of the executive branch. so this law breaking and then this withholding of funds, that is not just breaking the law that's unconstitutional. that is the power of the purse. that's an authoritarian president. and we're going to stand against the complete undermining of the vision of the separation of powers and the checks and balances. that's the difference between a democracy and a dictator. >> senator jeff merkley, so many more topics that i would have asked you about, but time is against us on this one. thank you for joining us. and that does it for this hour. thank you. and that does it for this hour of msnbc reports. i'll see

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good day. i'm chris jansing, live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. a teachable moment. >> our president trump. >> and the woman he picked to both. >> lead and gut the department. >> of education. even on the p