good day. i'm chris jansing, live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. a teachable moment. >> our president trump. >> and the woman he picked to both. >> lead and gut the department. >> of education. even on the same page, linda.

>> mcmahon tells members of congress. >> that they. >> have the. >> final word about shutting down the agency. >> not the president. >> so what happens next? >> plus. >> consumer protection in the crosshairs. an agency built to defend average americans from big banks and big business is being dismantled by the richest man in the world. the first head of the consumer financial protection bureau will join me to explain what this means for you. and a nightmare for security forces in germany after a car ramming attack in munich, just one day before a massive international security conference with the vice president and secretary of state both set to attend. the latest on the victims and the suspect now in custody. a lot to get to, but we start with the president and elon musk transforming the shape and size of the us government at breakneck speed. not content with mass layoffs, musk insists that on a video call this morning that entire agency should be wiped out.

>> we do. >> need to. >> delete entire agencies as opposed to leave part of. >> them behind. >> because if you leave part of them behind, it's easy. it's kind of like leaving a weed. if you don't remove the roots of the weed, then it's easy for the weed to grow back. but if you remove the roots of the weed, it doesn't stop weeds from ever growing back. but it makes it harder. so. so we have. >> to really. >> delete entire agencies, many of them. >> a top target is the department of education, where politico is now reporting some of the 4400 employees are already being laid off. although nbc news has not confirmed that trump wants his ally linda mcmahon, in charge of the education department, an agency he calls a con job that he wants closed immediately. as part of today's confirmation hearing, the former wrestling executive and head of the small business administration was pressed on what it would mean for millions of students and teachers who rely on the department for

funding. >> mr. mcmahon, can you. commit today to not cutting funding. >> for. >> public schools. >> in. >> this country? >> well, certainly. >> what. >> i'll commit to. >> sir, is. that funding. >> for schools is appropriated. >> by congress and. >> that funding should continue. >> congress will continue to pass. >> those laws. the department. >> of. >> education is not doing that. >> so will you support. >> will you will you. >> oppose any cuts to public. >> education, yes. >> or no? >> well, the president is not he is not saying. that we should cut funding to public education. >> yes he is. he is simply saying, well, i. would disagree with you there. elon musk yesterday announced. >> he would immediately. >> cut $900. >> million. >> from the department of education. >> beyond the doe. the washington post says white house officials are eyeing cuts to agency budgets of between 30 and 40% on average across the government, centered on significant staff reductions, according to two people briefed on internal conversations. but

while nbc has learned 75,000 federal employees took the deal to get paid to quit, anyone else may be out of luck. after a judge cleared the way for the trump administration's buyout program to restart. the administration closed the offer down. no more workers. i want to bring in nbc's vaughn hillyard on capitol hill. brendan buck was an aide to republican house speaker paul ryan and john boehner. he is also an msnbc political analyst. paul butler is a former federal prosecutor, georgetown law professor and msnbc legal analyst. so while the president has been talking about closing the department of education down, how much and how does that match up with what linda mcmahon is saying? >> exactly? he has suggested that he would seek even an executive order to dismantle the department of education. let's be clear, this department has been a longtime target of republicans. long before donald trump entered republican gop

apparatus. right. this for donald trump, though, is a potential to claim a major victory in the effort to consolidate departments, agencies and cut back not only the federal workforce, but at a time in which republicans on capitol hill are looking at these next year's budget here. this is an opportunity for them to question the funding that goes directly to the department of education. but you said it. how do you get rid of the department of education? right. there's the part, of course, where through appropriations you can cut back funding. but it was senator bernie sanders direct question to linda mcmahon about this very question. and the extent to which it comes down to congress. take a listen. >> do you agree? >> and let me just. >> once again. >> get. >> your feelings. >> on this. >> that if there is a movement to abolish the department of. >> education. >> it has to go through the. united states congress? >> yes. >> the it is. >> set up by the united states congress. and we work with congress. it clearly cannot be

shut down without it. >> and that is where under the presidential restructuring act or potential other legislation to abolish the department of education, it would take seven democratic senators to get to 60 votes to go forward with that. but that is where it comes. does the executive branch does donald trump, does elon musk have a different plan going forward? because if you look at president trump's own words. well, this particular example from just last week is an example. >> i told linda, linda. >> i hope. >> you do a great job and put yourself out of a job. i want her to put herself out of a job. education department. >> to note, she has faced a series of questions under scrutiny from democrats, but she has faced just one question so far on the civil lawsuit that was filed against herself in vince mcmahon and the wwe last year. this lawsuit is ongoing through her attorney. she has

denied the underlying allegations, but i think it's important to note that lawsuit alleges that she, as well as her husband and the wwe, turned a blind eye towards the former wwe announcers alleged sexual exploitation of young boys who worked with wwe. again, that lawsuit is ongoing and so far we have heard a democratic senator, tammy baldwin, asked her directly about that. and in response, she said that she would always take seriously investigations into sexual harassment and misconduct against minors. chris. >> okay, paul, let's go back to what linda mcmahon says. congress is needed to abolish an entire agency. but short of wiping it out entirely, completely with congressional approval, are there things legally the president can do? and if he tries to do it, are there things that can be done by other interested parties against it? >> so, chris, since george. >> washington. >> it's been the responsibility. >> of the legislative. >> branch. >> the.

>> house and the senate. to create or change or eliminate federal departments. >> that's because. >> those departments are created by statutes that only congress can repeal. so no, musk is wrong. the president cannot delete a federal department. but what he or she can do is to bleed it out. so the president has the responsibility to enforce the will of congress, as expressed in the departments that congress creates. but the president, in executing those enforcement responsibilities, can choose where the money goes and how the money is used. and we've seen in that responsibility, musk and apparently with trump's approval, using that authority to not formally eliminate the organizations, but to neuter them, to take away their employees and their responsibilities, that ultimately has the effect, especially with an agency like a

of getting rid of it. >> so brendan trump wants this done. now he wants it over with. let's say even that you agree with that. let's say that somehow congress could be brought on board. and again, this goes back to, i think, ronald reagan getting rid of the department of education could happen. is there a plan? is it rational just to think, okay, local state governments will take care of this now? >> well, i mean, i think that gets to exactly why this is not how the system should be going, even if you do believe and i do, that the department of education, the federal department of education is, is bigger than it needs to be. you don't just come in and wipe it off the map. you have to think through how this works. and there is a system for that. it's called congress. and i'm so struck by that first sound that we played with senator meehan. and it just kind of speaks to how backwards this whole situation is. he's asking the nominee, do you pledge not to cut spending? and she has to be the one to remind him, the member of congress, that it is

your job to decide how much spending goes through there. the whole conversation is just on its head. congress's job is to authorize programs and decide how much money is spent, and the president has some level of authority within what goes on there. but congress has gotten and both parties has gotten so out of the practice of doing its job of authorizing programs every few years to hold them accountable. that's what gives elon musk the permission to go in here politically, because congress hasn't been doing its job, it hasn't been providing guidance and authorizing it on any regular basis. and so people don't trust the government. nobody knows what's going on there. you know, i don't think that elon musk is the right person to be doing these things, but i understand why there's so much pent up demand and why it is seemingly so popular right now. people expect someone to have some eyes on what's going on there. again, he's probably not the right person to do that. that's congress's job. and i'm glad that the that secretary or the nominee, linda mcmahon, was able to remind a member of congress of that.

>> you know, the question also becomes how well the government will function if you decide again, very quickly right now, yesterday, that 30 to 40% of the federal workforce should go away. you heard elon musk's analogy with the weeds. there's also an old saying, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. i think most americans i think you're right. if a lot of americans are looking, if somebody's watching out for my money. but the question is, are they watching? right? like, what are you doing? how are you taking very complex agencies and just deciding x marks the spot? >> yeah, and it's not simple. and honestly, i think that's why congress has not been doing its job for years and years. it's because it is really hard labor. you have to pull in a bunch of gao reports and look at what inspector generals have found and do a lot of heavy oversight and interview agency leaders. how is this program working? how are you spending money? that

takes a really long time, and frankly, that's not politically rewarded anymore. so no one does it. does that work? and so yeah, if you were going to go in and actually meaningfully reform these agencies, it would have to be done over a long period of time. you'd have to put in a lot of study and figure out the right way to do that. again, i think there's a really reasonable way to go about doing that if congress i mean, this is how congress is set up to, to operate the authorization power is, i think, equally as important as the power of spending money. they just have to pick up the ball and use it. >> and, paul, unions have been fighting back. we've heard, for example, from from teachers unions. and then just yesterday, a judge determined that unions do not have the standing to challenge the administration's buyout offer. can you explain that? and if they don't have standing, is there someone else who could file, who does? >> so, chris, i think a lot of people are used to getting emails about their pension or their 401 k program, and it's usually very formal with a lot

of legal fees. this email that went out to federal employees from musk and dodge, the subject line was a fork in the road. it was basically like, hey, you want to retire way early and not work for a year, and then you can get a little bit of pay. there are big questions about whether that's legal, whether dodge has the authority to do that, and whether it's fair to give employees like less than two weeks to make that kind of life changing decision. so what this judge said was, hold up. i want to think about all of those issues. but first, the judge had to ask whether these government unions that have brought this suit had standing. and the judge answered that question. no. the judge said, well, it's not like these unions are directly affected. and under the law, you have to have a personal stake in the outcome in order to bring a case really important to understand. the judge did not decide anything about the merits of the suit, including, again, whether the president and dodge have the authority to create

such a life changing decision. that has to do with a whole bunch of laws regarding retirement, employment and federal service that just aren't answered at this point. when a federal employee makes that makes that decision, she's got to be relying on the goodwill. she's got to trust donald trump and elon musk. >> von hilliard, thank you, brendan and paul. you're staying with me in 90s. security officials are on high alert as top american officials head to germany for a conference after a car rammed into a crowd. what we're learning about the attack, the victims and the driver. we're live in munich. next. >> muscle cramps were keeping me up at night. so then i tried slimming the magnesium plus calcium supplement that helps relax tense muscles so i can rest comfortably and slow. mag rest comfortably and slow. mag tablets have a slow they get it...

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the same. >> towers as big wireless. so you get the same coverage. >> well. >> for unlimited. >> talk and. text with. reliable coverage and your second month free call consumer cellular. >> in germany, at least 28 people have been injured in what authorities believe was a deliberate car ramming attack. it comes on the eve of a major security conference in munich with world leaders including vice president j.d. vance. officials say the suspect, a 24 year old afghan asylum seeker, has been arrested. the attack comes just two months after five people were killed and 200 injured when a car drove into a crowd at a christmas market in east germany. nbc's courtney kube is live in munich. also with us, andrew boraine, senior advisor at the atlantic council counterterrorism project and executive director at flashpoint. andrew was a senior official with the office of the director of national

intelligence, so courtney munich was already obviously under heightened security for that big conference tomorrow. what more do we know about this attack? >> yeah, i've been at this conference for a number of years now, chris, and it is always one of the ones that has the highest level of security, layer and layer after perimeter of security outside the venue, which is just behind me here. but this year, we may even expect an even higher level of security. so what we know so far is earlier today, a 24 year old afghan man drove his white mini cooper into a crowd of pedestrians at an intersection here in munich. now, the people were gathered there because they were protesting. they were calling for higher wages. but the big question now is, were they targeted because of their protest, or were they simply a target of opportunity for this man who decided that he wanted to cause this, wreak this havoc on these people and this city? now, 28 individuals were injured. we don't know the nature of all of their injuries, but we do know at least several

of them are in serious condition, taken to the hospital. today we were there all day as the vehicle. you can see it there with the front windshield completely smashed in. sat there in the intersection with personal items of the victims strewn all about that intersection. chris, it was just about an hour ago that we watched the car finally towed away and the intersection cleared up, but the big question remains tonight why did this man do this? he was an asylum seeker here in germany, and local officials said they were aware of him because of some past criminal behavior, including some possible drug offenses. chris. >> thank you so much for that. courtney. we appreciate you being out in the cold for us. okay, andrew. so what are investigators doing right now? obviously, they're looking for a motive. they want to know more about this guy. >> yeah. >> so investigators first off, safety and security is the first principle here. and looking out for those injured. so the scene itself is priority number one. but i would add that in the last

hour, the munich police handed over the case for prosecution to the munich terrorism prosecutor. now, this is an important development because the prosecutor for counterterrorism said there are indications of an extremist background. and if that's the case, and if it ties to, for instance, islamic radical terrorism, as we've seen it morph in the last several years, there is an increasing trend of these types of low tech, very high impact, high profile attacks, for instance, new orleans on new year's eve. >> well, i mean, you look at this. you've got a small car, one of the smallest cars that's made right. and it drives into a crowd. and now you have 28 people going to the hospital. the challenge that that can pose, especially when you have a high profile event. again, we don't know if it's tied to the security conference that's going to be happening. but the challenge seems to me to be significant. and again, we don't know if this guy is tied to

other people who may be involved in some sort of activities, or he's a lone wolf. right. >> that's right. and so the forensic investigation is the next thing. secure the scene, begin the investigation. i do think it's an important indicator that this was handed over to the counter terrorism counter violent extremism prosecution office. there may be more here than is initially seen on the television or early reporting. and frequently early reporting can be inaccurate. so investigators are definitely parsing through all kinds of things. social media posts, communications, identifying. has this person been in touch with potential agitators or merely viewing or reposting extremist content? so again, we don't know yet. it hasn't been publicly reported, but those are the types of things that are being investigated actively at this time. >> there have been a number of incidents in our modern history. 911 obviously one of them, but where u.s. officials have been extremely concerned about the

online bringing people into into the terrorism world. right. and i wonder if we're in a place right now where there's so much tension in the world. right. we are post covid, a lot of people feeling isolated, scared about what's constant upheaval. obviously, all around the world, we're seeing some insecurity in in political situations. is the sense of alert the concern about online extremism and recruitment at a higher level than it was just a few years ago? >> i think it is absolutely, yes. and it's not just recruitment, it's inspiration. right? the name of lirr magazine was inspire, and it was meant to proliferate things like how do you make a pressure cooker bomb? that led to boston marathon. and i think increasingly, as we have difficulty in understanding what is foreign counterterrorism and what is domestic counterterrorism, particularly when some can be completely domestic actor and have access to these types of inspirational

or self radicalizing types of activity. so i do think that this presents a real challenge, and a lot of it's going to come down to counterterrorism efforts to get to root causes. right. so i wouldn't be surprised if perhaps this comes up at munich about the importance of not letting counterterrorism as a national security priority fall by the wayside. >> yeah. the online radicalization is real. we're almost out of time. but i do want to ask you, obviously, with this big conference starting tomorrow, you have a number of world leaders who are going to be there, a number of top officials from the u.s. government, secret services, obviously there. you heard courtney just say this is always one of the most high security events, but does it get even higher? do they reassess their plan right now? >> i mean, yes, the short answer is yes. frequently in these types of situations, and i wouldn't do anything to indicate what changes to security might be. but after an event like this, if a security plan has been published and there may be needs to coordinate, right. this is similar to the principle of

if you're just a general citizen, vary your routes. when you're overseas, don't always take the exact same bus route, don't you know? so i do think there will be some changes. i do think it probably will have an impact. right now, there is no reporting that this attack was linked to the munich security conference. and another thing that undoubtedly will be on the minds of german security and international security will be that there's an election in germany coming up in the next ten days. and so there will be polling places. there will be other activities that certainly could be vulnerable to attack. >> andrew breen, thank you so much. we have some dramatic surveillance video of a u.s. navy jet plunging through thick fog and crashing into san diego bay. two pilots were aboard but ejected safely. they were rescued by a fishing tour boat whose passengers witnessed the entire incident. >> awesome crew. they said they had a coast. >> guard training. >> on like monday. they do it, i think, annually, so perfect timing. everybody was ready. they took care of them and kind of crazy.

>> if we would have left the dock, you know, a couple of minutes. >> sooner. >> we could have been right under. it could have been on us. so i do feel pretty blessed that we made it out of there. and we all can walk away and tell the story. >> officials are patrolling the area to retrieve the debris from the downed plane. the cause of that crash remains under investigation. and coming up, the escalation in the fight over immigration, donald trump's new attorney general now has not just migrants. but top new york officials in her sights. her new lawsuit and the blunt response from the state's governor. next. >> you. >> you're making everything orange. >> we're showing we're consumers. >> cellular gets great coverage. >> we use the same. >> towers as big wireless, so you get the same coverage. >> well. >> well. >> for want a next level clean? swish with the whoa of listerine. it kills 99.9% of bad breath germs for five times more cleaning power than brushing and flossing alone. get a next level clean... ahhhhh

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up for msnbc daily at msnbc.com. >> new attorney general pam bondi is on a state by state mission to have the federal government control immigration policies, threatening states to get ready if you're not complying. her first target new york, where the doj is suing the state governor, kathy hochul, and attorney general letitia james. the suit came just ahead of a meeting today between border czar tom homan and new york city's mayor, eric adams, which could get interesting because just days after trump told the doj to drop criminal charges against adams, fema abruptly pulled $80 million in funds from new york for housing migrants. joining me now, nbc's julia ainsley, former federal prosecutor, professor at georgetown school of law and msnbc legal analyst paul butler, and msnbc political analyst and former democratic congresswoman from maryland, donna edwards.

so, julia, what was homan looking to get out of this meeting with mayor adams today? well, look, he knows that there is some. wiggle room there as. opposed to some of the other sanctuary. >> cities that have been. >> very publicly against. >> what. >> the trump. >> administration is doing in. >> terms of deportations. >> adams has given him some reason to believe that there could. be some. cooperation there. and even. >> though new york city is. >> a sanctuary. >> city, adams was very vocal that he didn't think the biden administration was doing enough to help the city when they had an influx of over 60,000, mainly venezuelan migrants that began sleeping on the streets. >> there and inside. >> the roosevelt hotel in the fall of 2023. even though the biden administration did allow a lot of those people to work, there still a lot of them in the city. they also were dealing with the gang that train de aragua gang from venezuela. that's something where adams and homan think they might be able to work together, but at the end it is still a sanctuary city, meaning the nypd does not tell ice when they encounter someone in their day to day before releasing them. they don't tell

ice to come pick them up after they've served their time or finish their interaction with law enforcement. so that's what's on the table here. the stakes are pretty high to see if adams will somehow give give homan some reason to believe they may be changing that policy. and it also comes on the heels of that lawsuit that you mentioned, chris. >> yeah. congresswoman, after trump's justice department told manhattan prosecutors to drop the corruption case against adams, there were people who are opposed to it who raised the question about whether this would make adams more amenable to trump's policies, despite again leading a heavily democratic sanctuary city. what are you going to watch for coming out of this meeting? >> well. >> number one, i don't think that this is actually going to help mayor adams in his quest to return to the mayor's office, especially among democratic voters. but the question is, what is adams willing to give? that's actually within the construct of new york state and new york city city law. i mean,

the reality is that federal enforcement of immigration laws is a federal responsibility, but states and localities don't have any obligation whatsoever to spend their resources to assist the federal government. and so this is really going to come down to some jockeying with mayor adams. and if he gives away too much, he also risks his political future to the extent that it even exists going into this next election. >> well, as a matter of fact, congresswoman, the trump administration is looking to state and local governments to aid. there was a story in one of the papers today, for example, about how local sheriffs, even those who support tougher immigration policy, are saying, we don't have the money, we don't have room in our jails. where's the money going to come from? so if they're saying we can't help because we don't have the funds, how do democrats respond? >> well, i mean, if the federal government doesn't have the funds to reimburse local law

enforcement, i mean, sheriffs offices, for example, have responsibilities for jails, for serving warrants and for assisting local police departments. and they are already stretched. and so they're not going to be able to afford the overtime, the double time that it takes to also perform federal responsibility. and it's not like the federal government is coughing up any money to these local law enforcement agencies to do their job on immigration enforcement. >> so, paul, let's go back to new york for a minute. again, very complicated issue that julia lined out, especially from a couple of years ago. i want to play what attorney general pam bondi said about new york just yesterday. >> new york has chosen to prioritize illegal aliens over american citizens. it stops. it stops today. as you know, we sued illinois and new york didn't listen. so now you're

next. if you don't comply with federal law, we will hold you accountable. we did it to illinois. strike one. strike two is new york. and if you are a state not complying. with federal law, you're next. get ready. >> well, d.o.j. is suing over a new york state statute that allows the dmv to issue undocumented migrants drivers licenses. they argue it's unlawful. they say it's unenforceable. do they have a case and what's next? >> so, chris, there are a lot of laws that undocumented people will have to follow. for example, they have to pay income tax even if they're not legally authorized to work. and in fact, many do. in new york, undocumented people can get driver's licenses. this law is designed to protect all citizens. you have to take a test to get a driver's license. new york wants to make sure that its streets are safe. you have you can't get insurance without a driver's license. if you've ever been involved in an

accident with an uninsured motorist, you know how important that is. so bondi, the new attorney general, is making an argument based on the preemptive clause which says that federal law preempts state and local law. it's unclear how driver's license law would have anything to do with federal immigration enforcement. and, chris, your question to congresswoman edwards was so astute, because you're right. on the one hand, sometimes the trump administration tries to involve local police departments in enforcing federal immigration law, like saying they should make arrests when people have violated federal election, a federal immigration law. on the other hand, with cases like the one that doj is bringing in new york and illinois, they're saying that immigration enforcement is a federal responsibility and states shouldn't get involved. so they're really trying to have it both ways. again, it will be

interesting to see how courts respond. i think that most courts would reject this because there isn't an apparent conflict between what the states are doing and federal immigration law, but there might be some conservative justices, judges who are amenable to the argument that this attorney general is making. >> and, paula, as a lawyer, i wonder how you view the your next rhetoric coming from the attorney general of the united states, aimed, among other people, at a state attorney general. >> it's chilling again, what these law enforcement officers, fbi agents, state attorney generals, they're all just doing their job. they have a lot of discretion. and it's not unusual for. but when an administration changes that the boss, the president or the cabinet executive says you have to exercise this discretion in a different way, consistent with the policies of this new administration. that's totally legal. that's how the system is

supposed to work. what you're not supposed to do is to fire or sue people who are just doing their jobs as they see best, and that's what we're seeing. in her first press conference, the new attorney general said, this is a new doj. boy, is it ever. >> paul butler, julia ainsley and former congresswoman donna edwards. thank you all. up next, the mystery of mitch mcconnell, the longtime republican leader now bucking donald trump with no votes. is it having any impact votes. is it having any impact on his colleagues? ♪ unnecessary action hero ♪ unecessary. was that necessary? no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom employees do their own payroll so you can fix problems before they become problems. get paycom and make the unnecessary, unnecessary. with fatigue and light-headedness, i knew something was wrong. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater

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again. >> get 50% off your. >> first box at ollie. com. >> just moments ago, we got word that the president has called the white house pool reporters into the oval office, and he's going to be delivering remarks on the reciprocal tariffs he's putting into effect on u.s. trading partners. the details are still unclear, but we've got, again, reporters from the white house pool in the oval. and we'll bring you updates as we get them. meantime, today, once again, mitch mcconnell is standing alone among senate republicans. he just voted no on robert f kennedy jr's nomination to head hhs, his third time voting down a trump nominee after opposing pete hegseth and tulsi gabbard. it is a stark contrast from the powerful republican leader who once backed trump, but who the washington post now describes as the unlikely and sometimes lonely face of republican

resistance. brendan buck is back with me. mitch mcconnell just put out a statement. it reminds folks that he did survive polio, and he wrote this. brendan, i've watched vaccines save millions of lives from devastating diseases across america and around the world. i will not condone the relitigation of proven cures. colleagues tell the post that they respect mcconnell, but that is no vote makes them sad. what's the dynamic that's at play here? >> well, look, i will start by saying i have a lot of respect for mitch mcconnell. i was around him a lot when i was in the speaker's office, and i think he is a very principled person who did a lot for the republican party over over many years. the obvious difference is he's no longer a leader. and there is, i think, something notable i would be i don't know, this i would be surprised if mitch mcconnell had ever voted against a nominee of his own party until this year, and it was always his job to make sure that his colleagues didn't vote

against them. and so i imagine it's fair for a lot of them to look at mcconnell and say, hey, you put a lot of pressure on me to take a lot of tough votes over the years. you valued discipline more than just about anything as leader. and why now do you have the freedom to sort of freelance? i think that's that's very reasonable. of course. i think probably what is consistent here is that mitch mcconnell is of an era of republican politics, when none of these people he is voting against would have ever been nominated in the first place. so he's now put in a position of having to grapple with, with voting for people who, you know, make crazy claims about vaccines or have very questionable credentials to lead our national security agencies. and we know that mitch mcconnell has long cared a lot about national security. and so it's not surprising that he was against those people. but it does leave you wondering if you've been a longtime watcher of the senate, why it's okay for him to be a bit of a freelancer here, where

he would have never accepted that from from some of his colleagues. >> you know, brendan, there are folks who argue that the old ways of congress began to have a slow and painful death when john mccain died. i wonder if mitch mcconnell's kind of quiet opposition he's been apparently going to members expressing to them why he would vote no. and also, the low fanfare surrounding it is sort of a last gasp for whatever that old era of politics represented. >> yeah, i think that's right. and look, mitch mcconnell also is i don't know if he's announced this. he's probably unlikely to run for reelection again. and so he doesn't ever have to really face voters. and that's an obvious difference from him in a lot of his colleagues who i don't think this is a secret. there's a lot of republicans in congress who still aren't all that warm on donald trump, but they've been, you know, put in this position because their voters love him. and mitch mcconnell doesn't have that pressure that so many of the other folks there do. so

he's going to, i guess, perhaps, wave the flag of traditional republicanism. but as his colleagues know, that he alone isn't going to take anyone down. and so he's got that space, that margin they have in the senate. if he wants to be that voice, great. go do that. sir. we appreciate what you've you've done for us. just as long as you don't mess up our agenda. and i think the end of the day, mcconnell's going to be voting for most of this agenda. but he does have this space now. and i think there's a lot of people who appreciate what he's saying, and there just aren't enough people there who are in the same position that he has that he can that they can go along with him. >> politics in a nutshell. brendan buck, thank you so much. good to see you again. and coming up, the purge continues this time, termination notices to the consumer financial protection bureau, a former director of the cfpb joins me to discuss the ramifications next. and then next, our biden appointed u.s. attorneys are now also getting the ax. and how they're finding out is different. you're watching chris different. you're watching chris jansing reports only

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bring in richard cordray, who served as the first director of the cfpb from 2012 to 2017. it's great to have you on the program. i think a lot of americans think maybe i understand because it says consumer protection in the name of what this organization does, but help us to understand by giving us some examples of why the american public might want to care about this. >> sure. >> all of us. >> know that we. >> face difficult. decisions over complex financial products that we don't necessarily fully understand. this has to do with mortgages. which are long term commitment of. >> many thousands. >> of dollars, credit cards that we deal with. on a daily basis, and student. >> loans, for. >> example, that help finance education. the consumer financial. protection bureau makes sure that the law is being enforced. >> so it's a law enforcement. >> agency, and. >> that people aren't being cheated. >> by people who would. >> violate the law to get an advantage. >> that's a basic. fundamental notion of fairness.

>> in our society. >> and the consumer bureau was created to. >> make sure that that happens. >> i want to get more into the impact on consumers. but let me ask you about what's going on in the organization right now. because cfpb staff were informed, according to npr, when termination letters were sent via email, many with no personalization, according to two of the terminated employees who say that they essentially got a botched form letter, it read, quote, memorandum for insert, employee, first name, employee, last name, job title, and division. i know you haven't been with the bureau for eight years, but what are you hearing from people there about the real world impact of this kind of thing? >> well, look what they've done. they're taking. >> a look at the bureau and they will find and they are finding, i'm sure that there is a lot of law that governs what. the bureau does. congress passed this law. it is not optional. it is mandatory. there are a lot of things that the bureau shall do. it shall supervise financial

institutions, make sure they're complying with the law. it shall handle what is now millions of individual consumer complaints to make sure that people are cheated by financial companies. they can get their money back. those are things that are just required under the law. and unless you're going to simply disobey the law, they have to be done. and i think that there's some recognition of that. they have now let go some employees, about 70, i guess, who are in a probationary status and did not have legal protections. that suggests that they're aware that the rest of the 1700 employees do have legal protections and can't be let go. and i think what's happening is they've now nominated a director, and they understand that this agency needs to be able to work. it has certain things it does that are very important in financial markets, not just for consumers, but for the companies that operate there, such as community banks and credit unions and mortgage lenders. and if they

can't operate on a level playing field, that's going to hurt a lot of companies, a lot of consumers, and ultimately hurt the people of america. >> let's talk about elon musk. the new york times writes this at x, one of the most promising ways mr. musk can increase profits is through a payment business, which could charge fees for transactions.uilding out that business would be easier without having to contend with a regulator like the consumer bureau, which has a recent track record of bringing cases against payment companies. do you believe there is a potential conflict here and maybe a big one? >> i think there's a clear conflict of interest. look, if you're trying to go into a new area of payment systems and you're trying to get the regulator that oversees that system, that's just a plain conflict of interest. i mean, that that involves ethics laws in the federal government that are very serious indeed. and so, you know, what we're going to see, i think, over time, is a

recognition that the consumer bureau does some things that are very important in markets. that affects a lot of companies that serve a lot of people. it also protects consumers, and good businesses care about the long term health of their customers, and that's why most of them operate. but some do not. some would try to get an advantage by by getting the people that oversee them. it's apparent that elon musk would like to see that happen now that he's moving in payment systems. but it's not appropriate. and it's not not the way things i believe will show out here. >> richard cordray, i hope you'll come back. we'll we'll continue to watch this. thank you so much for your time. thank you. and still ahead, the evacuation orders in california, a major storm is threatening to bring flooding to areas already devastated by historic wildfires. we'll go live to malibu. stay close. more chris jansing reports after this. >> the first time i experienced. >> vertigo. >> the room was spinning like i

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