the drug enforcement administration. and there's laws that are already on the books. for example, the foreign narcotics kingpin designation act that basically allows for the same thing. and like james clapper, the former head of national intelligence, said the designation is largely symbolic. >> mohammed aziz and mike vigil, thank you both very much. and the calleros pull in $1 billion a year. wow. >> that's $1 billion in petroleum. and not everybody buys drugs, goes in, but everybody buys petroleum. >> thank you very much, mike. and thank you very much. hamid, thank you as well. that wraps up the hour for me. i'll see you tomorrow night on nbc nightly news saturday. thank you for the privilege of your time. ali vitali picks up with more news right now.

>> right now on msnbc, the expanding revolt from top federal prosecutors over orders to end the corruption case against the new york mayor. the latest attorney to quit and the mayor's new denials today over quid pro quo and immigration. plus, the white house orders mass firings of federal workers, the latest agencies affected as the attempts to reshape the federal government face another judge just hours from now. then warnings from economists on how president trump's newest tariff threats could upend the global economy and put a strain on your pocketbook. and later, an american israeli hostage prepares for freedom from hamas. we're live in israel. good day. i'm ali vitali in washington. new york city mayor eric adams this morning rejected the bombshell allegations made by a top new york prosecutor, before she and five others resigned in protest. it comes amid the pressure campaign by top officials in trump's doj to have

the corruption charges against mayor adams dropped. that directive came from the number two at main justice, acting deputy attorney general emil bove, who said dropping the charges would allow the mayor to better cooperate with the new administration's crackdown on immigration. so bove ordered prosecutors in the southern district to drop the charges. but at least one and there's another now said no. danielle sassoon, the interim u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, quit instead and alleged in her resignation letter to the attorney general that adams lawyer and the justice department were pushing for what amounted to a quid pro quo, having the mayor assist on immigration if his charges were dismissed. appearing on fox news earlier with trump's border czar, the mayor denied that accusation. >> imagine him going inside saying that the only way. mayor adams is going to assist in immigration, which i was calling for since 2022, is if you drop the charges, that's quid pro quo. that's a crime. it took us three. she took it took her

three weeks to report in front of her a criminal action. come on, this is silly. >> msnbc news msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin joins me now. and, lisa, we said this at one point. it was just danielle sassoon saying this was not something she would undertake as a prosecutor on behalf of the s.d.n.y. there's a second prosecutor now echoing that. right. >> that's right. and we have a resignation letter, ali, today from higgins scotten, who is one of the four prosecutors assigned to the adams case. it's also notable that higgins, like danielle sassoon, has very solid conservative credentials. after he graduated from law school, he was a law clerk to then judge brett kavanaugh before he was elevated to the supreme court. and then he became a clerk to chief justice john roberts. in fact, in his resignation letter. and i think this is really particularly interesting, mr. scotten says as follows. there is a tradition in public service of resigning in a last ditch effort to head off a serious mistake. some will view the

mistake you are committing here. in light of their generally negative views of the new administration. i do not share those views. higgins, scott. and then making it very clear that he is perhaps a fan of the president, or one who is not perhaps negative about the president's overall agenda, but that for him, the rules of prosecution come before politics. and him saying, look, any u.s. attorney would know that our laws and traditions don't allow using the prosecutorial power to influence other citizens, much less elected officials, in this way. if no lawyer within earshot of the president is willing to give him that advice, then i expect you will eventually find someone who is enough of a fool or enough of a coward to file your motion, but it was never going to be me. ali, this is a fiery letter from higgins, scott, and the second person, at least in the southern district, to resign. but it wasn't up to higgins scott to file this motion. i want to point out to you that yesterday, in writing a

letter to danielle sassoon, emile beauvais, who is now the deputy acting, the acting deputy attorney general, essentially said to her after she refused to dismiss the case herself, he was yanking the case away from the entire southern district of new york and assigning it to main justice, the public integrity unit there, where, as you know, five prosecutors resigned last night. >> and of course, after those resignations, what happens if no one within that sector of the government says they will do the justice department's bidding? i know it's back under main justice's umbrella now, but what if main justice doesn't have anyone to carry it out either? >> well, the public integrity unit, according to our colleague ryan riley at nbc news, has about 25 to 30 lawyers in it. my understanding, from talking to two sources this morning is that those lawyers are gathered together and discussing what it is that they are going to do next. one of my sources said that they are trying to show solidarity, meaning show solidarity with those who have resigned before them out of principle. but if they can't

find anybody in the public integrity unit, they can go to the broader criminal division. and if they can't find anybody in the criminal division, maybe almodovar himself signs this filing on behalf of the department of justice. they're not going to necessarily run out of lawyers, but what they might run out of is people who have any familiarity whatsoever with this case and can stand before a judge in good conscience and say, there are principled reasons to dismiss this case under rule 48 of the federal rules of criminal procedure. that's the rule that they have to invoke to bring a motion before judge dale ho in the southern district and ask him to dismiss this case without prejudice, as mr. beauvais outlined in his memo to miss sassoon earlier this week. >> and it's that good conscience piece, lisa, that's so important. and that we these prs letters, they attack that very premise. lisa ruben, thank you, as always, for being so on top of this story and this reporting. i want to bring in now our panel. we've got two former pennsylvania congresspeople, susan wild and

charlie dent. we've also got kimberly atkins store, a boston globe columnist and a former attorney herself. a great group for this present moment. but i want to start first with you, kimberly, if i can. there was supposed to be we learned from a superseding indictment here. what do you make of the fact that they're trying to wipe these charges away, just as s.d.n.y is reminding them? not so fast. we had more. >> yeah. ali, i think that's a crucial element here. there was another grand jury that sat and that gave the go ahead for obstruction charges to be added on top of the charges that mayor adams already was facing. the prosecutors were doing their work by the book. this went before members of his grand jury, of his peers, new yorkers, who said that there is enough here to move forward with charges. so with that to be taken away and to have an order delivered to drop them, irrespective of that work goes

against everything that prosecutors are supposed to stand for. and it underscores this idea that politics should play no role in the determination of prosecutorial decisions as a foundational principle of the rule of law. and the fact that now you may or they're putting the public integrity unit to the test in this moment to see if they will stand up for the rule of law or forget their public integrity. leave that by the wayside and the values that undercut that, that underscore that is really, really gobsmacking. this is the most openly authoritative act that trump has done yet. >> and, kimberly, i actually want the control room to put a tweet up on the screen from one of your sisters in law, barbara mcquade, who just tweeted that doj leadership has put all public integrity section lawyers into a room with an hour to decide who will dismiss the adams indictment, or else all will be fired. she, of course, adds that she is sending them

strength to stand by their oath and by the constitution. but susan wild, when you read something like that, what do you what's the reaction you have? >> well. >> i have to agree. it's about the most authoritative thing we've seen from this president yet. and authoritarian, i should say. and it's i have to commend the prosecutors and the lawyers both at s.d.n.y and main justice who have resigned. that's their that's what they should do. as a as a lawyer myself, i'm proud of them. and i hope that we see more examples of this. but as you just heard from miss rubin, the there are plenty of lawyers out there. we've seen this before. somebody will agree to dismiss, to file the motion, to dismiss this indictment. and of course, that tweet that we just saw on the screen was just about an hour ago. so we'll see whether there's a mass firing or whether they come up with a lawyer or two who are willing to sign it. and that's really troubling. >> we could we could be finding. >> that it's ultimately that i and i keep saying this, it's

ultimately going to be up to the courts, as when i was a young lawyer, i was trained that the judicial system was the backstop. it was the place where we could count on justice. and the judges are really have a huge responsibility, and i hope they stick to it. >> charlie dent, you've been around politics a long time. is it as cut and dry as most people fear here that the trump administration basically has the mayor of america's largest city in its pocket now? >> well, it's simply stunning to me that an indictment, a federal indictment against the sitting mayor of new york city could be dismissed without prejudice, by the way. and according to these prosecutors, in exchange for his cooperation on immigration enforcement, they also go on to say that that this indictment is impeding his ability to do his job as mayor. well, i got news for everybody. anybody who's ever been indicted federally,

their lives are turned upside down. yeah. it impedes your ability to do your job just to function as a human being. it's emotionally devastating. i mean, i find this whole thing stunning. that. and of course, these lawyers are to be commended for their courage. i mean, they understand what their responsibilities are and what their oaths are all about. and good luck finding an attorney who's going to actually put their name on this thing to say this should be dismissed. they're not dismissing this based on what the prosecutor is saying on the facts of the case, but for transparently political reasons. and by filing this thing to dismiss without prejudice means that the administration, you know, could or the justice department could refile the charges. that in order that's a that's a that's a, you know, a sword of damocles hanging over the head of adams to make sure that he actually complies in terms of immigration enforcement. so this is a this is beyond stunning. it's gobsmacking. >> it's an absolutely apt metaphor that you make there. former representative susan wild and charlie dent and kimberly atkins store. thank you all so much. and i want to go now to

vice president jd vance and ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy, volodymyr zelenskyy, who are meeting right now at the munich security conference. i want to listen in to that. >> hey, you're back. >> we are here. >> we are good. okay. >> you have you come to a deal on principle? you. >> and so you hear there someone trying to ask a question. have you come to a deal on. and i would imagine that that question ends with, with the phrase a deal on how to even begin these negotiations when it comes to ending the war in ukraine. of course, much has been made of that wednesday phone call that president trump had with president putin of russia then filling in president zelenskyy after the fact. this meeting has a lot going on it. we've heard a lot in the lead up to it, but very interested to see what the readout actually brings there from munich in just 90s the

latest mass firings rocking the federal government and a new lawsuit trying to bring down lawsuit trying to bring down doge. you're watching msnbc. baby: liberty! mom: liberty mutual is all she talks about since we saved hundreds by bundling our home and auto insurance. baby: liberty! biberty: hey kid, it's pronounced "biberty." baby: liberty! biberty: biberty! baby: liberty! biberty: biberty! baby: liberty! biberty: bi-be-rty! baby: biberty! biberty: and now she's mocking me. very mature. mom: hey, that's enough you two! biberty: hey, i'm not the one acting like a total baby. mom: she's two. only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: liberty. it works differently than drops. blink nutrition is a once daily supplement clinically proven to hydrate from within, helping your eyes produce more of their own tears to promote lasting,

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that's roughly 10% of the civilian workforce. but there are exemptions for some critical employees. thursday's order came through the office of personnel management. think of it as federal government's hr department. the opm says a probationary period is part of the job application and doesn't actually guarantee long term employment. but union reps say the order, quote, abused the probationary period to conduct a politically driven mass firing spree, adding these firings are about poor, are not about poor performance. they're about power and forcing agencies into submission. a new lawsuit filed by 14 states is also challenging doj's, making the case that elon musk's unchecked power is unconstitutional. here with me now is nbc news white house correspondent erin gilchrist and new york times white house correspondent newly minted tyler pager. erin, first to you, these layoffs were always a possibility if workers didn't take that fork in the road buyout option. but how much could this new lawsuit challenging elon musk directly as the doj's centerpiece cripple

the group's power, even temporarily? >> yeah, that really is the goal that these 14 states have set in front of them. they want a judge to issue an order that, at least temporarily, stops elon musk and his doge team from being able to do the work that they've been doing across the government over the last several weeks here. the argument they're making is that the appointment, the creation of doge, which is actually just a renaming of an office that already existed inside the white house, and the appointment of elon musk as the head of that office, as a special government employee, violates the appointments clause of the constitution because it doesn't give congressional oversight. it doesn't allow congress to create this office, this agency, in effect, they argue, and it doesn't allow them to question elon musk through a confirmation process. they say that that is a violation of the constitution, a power that president trump has given the power that president trump has given to elon musk to go in to make these changes to look into inside systems and

budgets and to be able to fire people. in essence, they argue, is against the law. and as you noted, this really has been a part of the effort to downsize the federal government. the originally there was a hiring freeze, and then we saw this deferred resignation program that the administration said some 75,000 federal employees have now taken, although they set out to reduce the federal workforce by 5 to 10%, 100 to 200,000 people. and now that only 75,000 have taken the buyout offer, you see this new effort with these folks who are probationary now being fired to again reduce the federal workforce by hundreds of people, hundreds of thousands of people. >> so we've seen these lawsuits, tyler, on a few different fronts. you've got the ones that challenge the actions directly, whether it's musk's role or whether it's whether you can dissolve agencies without the role of congress. certainly, a lot of lawmakers would say you absolutely can't. and so that's why we've also seen some movement on the usaid front.

good for advocates of the agency, less so for the white house. explain that legal piece of the puzzle. >> look, as aaron. >> just outlined, there are lawsuits across. >> the board. >> challenging the. >> various parts of. >> the trump administration's. efforts to reduce the size of the federal. >> workforce and. >> also hollow. >> out and all, but eliminate some of these federal agencies. we've seen some of these efforts. >> as you noted. >> ali, have some success in trying to halt or stop or at least temporarily delay efforts by elon musk and doge and the trump administration to do so. for example, as you noted with usaid, there have been employees and advocates of these employees saying they are in harm's way. this is, you know, a legal for the administration to just fire them, let them go. especially as some of them are based around the world, in conflict zones, in areas that they are having trouble getting out of. so we saw, you know, a judge ruled favorably for these advocates of the usaid workers temporarily

halting the efforts. but again, i think what's important to note here is that the trump administration, the white house, elon musk, have shown that they are willing to go to whatever length is required to execute on their plan. so while this is a temporarily while while their efforts are temporarily delayed, it seems unlikely that they will be fully stopped in their efforts to overhaul the federal workforce and many of these agencies in their targets. >> yeah, many more overtures in the courts to come. erin and tyler, my friends, thank you for joining us. and joining us now, democratic congressman eric swalwell. he serves on the house judiciary and homeland security committees. after spending eight years on the house intelligence committee. congressman, let's start with the fbi. about 10% of the bureau's workforce is in probationary status, meaning that they could be cut. that is, of course, on top of the recent firings that kash patel is accused of orchestrating. he is. we should mention, on track to be confirmed. but what is the practical impact of losing the

agents there within the fbi? >> if we lose thousands. >> of agents at. >> the fbi? we are less safe. and our job in government, whether you're president of the united states, whether you're in congress, whether you're on your local city council, your principal job is for people to be safe in the community. we're not safe when the president of the united states releases 1600 violent individuals into our communities who stormed the capitol on his behalf, and we're certainly not safe when the people who stand watch for terrorism, public corruption, money laundering, child trafficking and other high crimes are fired because they were on the other side of donald trump in an investigation they had to do for just doing their job. so we're going to be less safe when he does this. >> and then, of course, we led the show, congressman, by talking about the prosecutors in the southern district of new york who are saying they'd rather resign than carry out the what they see as a potential quid pro quo between the new york city mayor and the and the

trump administration. your reaction when you see those efforts unfolding right before us? >> when you see prosecutors in new york refuse to do a drug deal for donald trump, that's what honor looks like. every prosecutor in america should read the memo that the lead prosecutor, i believe her name is daniel sassoon, put forward. it's so inspiring. it's what? when i was a prosecutor, it's what we were supposed to do. we were supposed to look at the facts and the law, and not to give a rip about anyone's political standing. watching this morning, trump's lead immigration czar and eric adams on television talking about this agreement. it was so disgusting. it's what you would see on russian television just open naked corruption. and so what we have to do in congress, you know, is the branch that funds government and that funds the department of justice is to put in place, you know, guardrails

and protections against this and that funding is coming up, by the way, in just a couple of weeks. >> i'm glad that you asked about that funding, because there has been a lot of conversations about democrats being able to leverage their standing here. usually republicans need democrats to help them continue to keep the government open, help continue funding. what's the leverage point that you're comfortable with democrats using? would you be comfortable shutting down the government? and to what end? what do you need to extract from these negotiations? >> donald trump right now is shutting down the government. he shutting down federal aid that's supposed to go to organizations. he is shutting down the fbi by firing agents. he's shutting down the cia with forced resignations. he is shutting down aid that is supposed to go out and help people. democrats want to keep government open. so our leverage is that we're not going to provide. i'm not speaking for others, but speaking for myself, i'm not going to provide a vote that enables a further shutdown. and as i take a step back and i

watched donald trump take this wrecking ball to america and to our allies, i keep asking myself, will we ever get all of this back? will we rebuild in california when donald trump says he's not going to help those victims of fire disaster? will we be safe in our communities with fewer fbi agents and more january 6th terrorists on the street? will our organizations be able to help people with less federal funding? and will our allies stand shoulder to shoulder with us as donald trump continues to poke them in the eye and treat them like an enemy? those are the questions that i and my constituents are asking ourselves. >> well, we've also heard from the trump administration is that the cuts are to try to decrease government spending. of course, the way that they're going about it, and this is being argued in court, is harming both workers. and then also the very structures and rules that are supposed to govern the way that government works. but the government did run nearly a $2 trillion deficit last year and had $36 trillion in debt. we're

going to hear those numbers a lot as republicans try to go through their reconciliation process. but are there any cuts inside the federal workforce that you would approve of? >> yes, i certainly would cut many of the benefits going to elon musk in the contracts that he's benefited, benefited from. and when i look at the stage at the inauguration, you know, many of those many of the debt that you just referenced went to the billionaires sitting in the front row at donald trump's inauguration in the form of donald trump's tax cuts from his first administration. i would let those expire as they should at the end of this year. i also believe, you know, that we can make sure that we are an economy where if you work hard, you do better and dream bigger. and it's not just the billionaire bros on the on that stage that benefits. that's what democrats are fighting for, and that's the budget that you're going to see us put forward. >> democratic congressman eric swalwell, thank you for joining us. >> my pleasure. thanks. >> and we've got breaking news right now. top american

officials are overseas and facing new questions about ukraine's future. we heard reporters trying to ask some of them just a few minutes ago. it comes as the country says russia struck the chernobyl nuclear plant. we've got the latest from those high stakes talks in munich, next on msnbc. >> safelite repair. >> perfecting your swing is hard. >> nice shot. dad. oh. >> happy place. >> but replacing your windshield >> but replacing your windshield doesn't have to be. go ♪ like a relentless weed, moderate to severe ulcerative colitis symptoms can keep coming back. start to break away from uc with tremfya... with rapid relief at 4 weeks. tremfya blocks a key source of inflammation. at one year, many people experienced remission... and some saw 100% visible healing of their intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections may occur. before treatment, your doctor should check you

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high five. five years? -nope. comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business. policies being implemented. alex will be in the field reporting from the frontlines. >> what issue. >> matters to you the most? >> and rachel will be hosting five nights a week. >> important stories are going to be told through field work and frontline reporting about the consequences of government action. >> alex wagner, reporting from across the country and the rachel maddow show weeknights at nine on msnbc. >> we mentioned this earlier in the show, but moments ago, vice president j.d. vance and ukrainian president zelensky just met in germany at the munich security conference after president trump said he and

russian leader vladimir putin had agreed to begin negotiations to end the war in ukraine. let's listen now to the vice president. >> thank you. >> mike. okay. well, good afternoon everybody. we're of course, happy to welcome the ukrainian delegation led by president zelensky. we had a number of fruitful conversations, a number of things for us to follow up and work on. and fundamentally, the goal is, as president trump outlined it, we want the war to come to a close. we want the killing to stop, but we want to achieve a durable, lasting peace, not the kind of peace that's going to have eastern europe and conflict just a couple of years down the road. so we had a number of good conversations about how we might accomplish that together. and certainly we'll have many more in the in the days, weeks and monthso me president zelensky. >> thank you. >> so much. thank you very much. very briefly, i think vice president said. >> everything. >> absolutely correct. we are we're thankful for american support. president trump, we

have good conversation today. our first meeting not last, i'm sure. and really what what we need to speak more, to work more and to prepare the plan. how to stop putin and finish the war. we want really we want peace very much. but we need real security guarantees. and we will continue our meetings and our work, and we will be very happy to see. general also in ukraine. and this time, thank you. thank you, vice president, for meeting. thank you colleagues. thank you so much. >> great. thank you all. take care guys. >> how does this move forward if ukraine is not ready to come to the table with putin, if ukraine is not ready to speak with putin at the table, how do you move forward? will you still negotiate? >> well, look, i think the way that this conversation moves this forward is, first of all, you have great members of the ukrainian delegation. you have our incredible secretary of state, marco rubio. here. we have general kellogg. it's important for us to get together

and start to have the conversations that are going to be necessary to bring this thing to a close. that's all i'm going to say for now, because i want to preserve the optionality here for the negotiators and our respective teams to bring this thing to a responsible close. thank you all and have a what. >> is the timeline? >> thank you, thank you. >> so you saw there in that high stakes bilateral meeting in munich on the american side. and zelenskyy shouted him out. you had keith kellogg, a top adviser to president trump on this issue of ukraine. he is likely to be critical in these negotiations. and then, of course, on the other side of the vice president, the newly minted secretary of state, marco rubio, all of them only in the initial very initial phases of what would be negotiations to end the ukraine war. but earlier today, before that meeting, zelenskyy said a russian drone hit the chernobyl nuclear power plant, the site of the world's worst nuclear disaster. authorities report that at this point, the shelter containing the radioactive material is thankfully unharmed. joining me

now from munich is david ignatius, foreign affairs columnist for the washington post. david, you've been at this since the early morning. the sun has set now in munich. but what else do we know at this point about the meeting between president zelensky and vice president vance? >> so i think. >> the clip that you just showed shows that today's meeting lowered the temperature. this had been quite an acrimonious several days with different positions from the trump administration. sharp reactions from the ukrainians, listening to both vance and zelensky. you sense that people were trying to calm the situation. this is a period of negotiation, not negotiation. but i was struck by vance's use of the phrase a durable peace, meaning it can't be so concessionary to president putin. that conflict erupts again while president trump is president. you heard president zelensky talk about his his need for security guarantees. so he's

confident that whatever the ceasefire line is, russia won't just move across it and continue the war. so i thought that was a significant end to what's been a very tumultuous day. one of the points that everybody here is buzzing about is, is vice president vance's speech to the munich security conference. it was so sharp and strident in its criticism of europe. european failure, in his words, to live up to their democratic ideals. he at one point referred to europeans as commissars, claimed that they were throttling the free speech rights of europeans. not at all. what people here were expecting from an american vice president. i heard some people compare it to the speech that vladimir putin made back in 2007, very strident declaration of russia's interest, assertion of a new role in the world. some people heard vance's speech here in that in that same way as a challenge to europe, and one

that was, for some europeans, quite upsetting. >> it's an absolutely striking parallel that you're drawing there, and one that comes as europe is asking for a seat at the table here in this pre negotiation phase. i wonder if you can talk about that. and then also the baggage that vance himself from his days in the senate brings to these conversations with the ukrainians. he was no such fan of continued aid to the country. >> so ali europeans are frightened by vladimir putin. they see a big, threatening army to their east. they see ukraine valiantly standing up to, to putin. and they're worried about the future. they're worried that if the united states abandons them to two russia, that they simply don't have the firepower to enforce a durable peace. so i heard today from a number of europeans on stage and off. concern about is america still really ready to back us up if we

go into peace negotiations? is america going to be there as a guarantor? i think there's a feeling that this war is in a stalemate, that it's gone on for a terrible, bloody three years. i don't hear anybody saying it's not time for negotiations to see if you can get a settlement. but again and again, europeans say if it's not a just settlement, it won't last. and it certainly won't protect the security of europe. >> well, david ignatius, it all portends whether or not we'll get the kind of just peace that you yourself wrote about to start the week as you were here in the united states, and then, of course, heading to munich. david ignatius, no better person to help us break this down. thank you. >> thanks, ali. >> and coming up next, president trump's promise to go tit for tat on tariffs with trading partners around the world, and why economists are now worried and warning it could be a disaster for inflation and for disaster for inflation and for american consumers. you're for more than a decade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again.

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president was asked yesterday if americans will pay more because of these tariffs, he said they would go up somewhat. they would go down. it basically matches what his top economist, kevin hassett, told me on this show yesterday. do you agree with them? >> look this is it's really. >> pretty simple. >> tariffs result in higher costs. >> for consumers. if president trump imposes tariffs on imported goods, then not only will those goods become more expensive by something very close to the amount of the tariff, but domestic competitors will also be free to raise their prices. we've seen this every time it's happened. it is completely untrue that foreign countries pay a tariff when we impose it. american consumers are going to pay that tax. president trump seems to believe that that makes us rich. and that's what he intends to do. but it doesn't make us rich. it lowers the standard of living of consumers who have to pay more for the ordinary things that they need to buy. it costs us

jobs because american manufacturers inevitably need to import some of the components in order to make their finished products. and those components become more expensive. the american manufacturer becomes less competitive. he has to lay off workers. it's not good for the economy. it's not good for the consumers. but i'm afraid some of it is coming. >> what you're saying tracks with what many economists agree with, despite the fact that the president's top economic advisor yesterday told me in fluid terms that he didn't think it would work out that way. but why, then, do you think? and i don't mean for you to get inside the president's head, but why do you think, then, that he's ignoring all of those warnings and instead making tariffs a very central piece of his economic policy? >> you know, i spent the president's first four years as president. i was in the united states senate. i spent a lot of those four years trying to explain to the president, trying to convince to him how much free

trade benefits american consumers, how low tariffs are not a gift to a foreign country. they're good policy for american consumers because they lower costs. he just just couldn't get it. and he's convinced that the higher tariffs go the richer we become. look he has believed this for many decades. i don't think any economist is going to change his mind. but by the way, it's not just economists who've seen this. you know, i remember very painfully when president trump imposed tariffs on steel and aluminum imports during his first term. those imports resulted in higher prices for steel and aluminum, which i think was the intent. that's exactly what happened. that was good for a handful of steel companies, and it was terrible for the thousands and thousands of companies that use steel and aluminum to produce some finished product. we lost far more jobs than were saved in the steel and aluminum industry. and the most generous counting of

the numbers of jobs saved, it still ended up costing american consumers something on the order of $900,000 per steel. job saved while we lost more jobs downstream. this isn't just an economic theory. >> while you were on one side of pennsylvania avenue during that first term, i was covering the white house. and the thing i remember about those steel and aluminum tariffs, 1.0, was that they were actually even more targeted than the kind of blanket tariffs that trump is now threatening this time. so given the fact that, you know, many of your colleagues that are still on capitol hill, do they share your views of how painful this could be for the american consumer? and the better question is, if they do, where are they speaking out against this? >> i think we're going to hear from members of congress. i might take a while, and i understand, i think most republican members of congress who have real doubts about this, they're going to hear from constituents, constituents who lose their jobs because their factories are no longer

competitive, constituents or consumers. who sees prices rise as a result of the tariffs? and they're going to be making calls to the president. the president is going to walk into a buzzsaw here. actually, we've seen it. it's already been a buzzsaw. remember, just a little over a week ago, over the weekend, the president announced that he would impose 25% tariffs on canada and mexico. he would do it immediately. there was nothing anyone could do to stop it. and then monday morning, the stock market opened way down because the world's investors and american investors know better. the president retreated pretty quickly. so my theory is he's going to go ahead and impose some of these tariffs. it's going to go badly. the backlash will be severe. and over time these tariffs will then be reduced or hopefully eliminated. but i'm afraid we're going to go through a painful period first. >> certainly that's something for us to watch for. former senator pat toomey thank you. we'll get you back next time, because i want to ask you about

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violated the terms of the cease fire. among the hostages to be released include 36 year old sergei dekel, who was captured on october 7th. his wife and three young daughters, including an infant who was born while he was in captivity, are anxiously waiting for him to come home. his wife spoke to nbc's raf sanchez last fall. >> i can't. >> wait for them. >> to meet. really, it's. >> every day. >> i'm waiting for this. >> that's why my. >> wish. >> a beautiful wish. joining me now is nbc's hala gorani from tel aviv. what else do we know about the hostage release that's slated now for tomorrow? >> so we expect. >> three hostages, as. >> you mentioned, ali. >> including that israeli. >> american, declan. >> 36 years old. >> the father. >> of three daughters, one of whom he has not met yet because she was born after he was abducted. >> from kibbutz. >> nir oz. there is also sasha trufanov, that's another dual

citizen, a russian israeli citizen who turned 29, in captivity. he is actually being held by the palestinian. >> islamic jihad. >> not hamas. >> and that group has. issued and put. out three. proof of life videos. and in the last one, he was talking about some dire conditions that the hostages are living through. and that, of course, is a cause for concern as far as his family is concerned. and there is 46 years old. all three men, by the way, were taken from. kibbutz near oz on october 7th, and all three suffered losses as well, particularly sasha trufanov. we understand that his father was killed on october 7th, and there was also among those who were abducted, his girlfriend and his mother. both were released in previous hostage prisoner exchanges. now, in exchange for these three hostages, there will be palestinian prisoners released. 33 palestinians

serving life sentences and 333 palestinians arrested after october 7th in gaza will be released by israel as well. this is all part of a three phase peace deal. this is phase one still. it involves the release of 33 israeli hostages in exchange for over a thousand palestinians. and, you know, this whole ali, this whole deal was thrown into doubt when hamas a few days ago said it was pausing the release of hostages because israel was not holding up its end of the bargain, particularly not allowing in some prefab housing, some tents. and that was part of what was agreed upon between the parties. but qatar and egypt, who facilitated this negotiation, have assured hamas. we understand that those deliveries will indeed take place that unblocked the process, and these hostages will be released tomorrow. >> ali, it was always such a tenuous deal, hala, the israeli prime minister now, benjamin

netanyahu meeting with secretary of state marco rubio on sunday. so where do you think those conversations will take these ceasefire negotiations? >> well. >> it's an interesting question because really, it doesn't take much for the whole process to collapse, as we saw a few days ago when there was really a concern that we might see renewed fighting, when israel essentially said, unless these three hostages are released on saturday, fighting will resume. we're also hearing these types of threats issued by president trump. there's also in the background increasing chatter and reporting as well, that israel may be planning on hitting some iranian nuclear sites. and this is something, no doubt, that will be discussed between the new secretary of state, marco rubio, and the israeli prime minister. some of the reporting indicating perhaps, that israel would be willing to even to, to, to

strike these sites on its own without u.s. backing. so we'll have to see where that where % >> a lot for us to watch over the weekend. hala gorani thank you. and that does it for me this hour. you can catch me back here monday morning on way too early at 5 a.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. but don't start your weekend quite yet. chris your weekend quite yet. chris with fatigue and light-headedness, i knew something was wrong. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. this is no time to wait. swiffer sweeper dry* traps 2x more dust and hair for a clean even mom approves of. nice reach! brooms can just push stuff around, but swiffer grabs dirt and even traps the hair.

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