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that system. security controls following the elon musk driven takeover attempt. and in another doge case, a separate federal judge dealt a blow to an effort by 14 democratic state attorneys general suing to block all of doj's work to reshape the federal government. the judge denied a temporary restraining order for now, arguing the ag's request was too broad. joining us now, former illinois congressman and 2020 presidential republican presidential candidate joe walsh and angela carusone, president of media matters. >> you know, angela, we're going to start with you today because this is i think this is very notable. you know, the trump administration and his allies are trying to make out what is happening in the courts to be what they're calling lawfare. you know, saying that basically democrats and democrat judges, even though republican judges have ruled against them as well, are, are are ruling not because of anything that has to do with the law, but because of this

personal animus, or they're being against trump and the administration, even though that's not true. but what they're trying to do is distort the landscape so that it makes it so much easier for them to ignore our laws. i just want to know what your take is on this, because this what we are seeing with doge, with the lawsuits. i think that this goes to the fundamental question of our, you % government, our separation of powers. and the lines are being very much so blurred here. >> yeah, i think you're totally right. and i mean, you know, to put sort of a more fine point on it, one of. >> the reasons. >> why they. you know, they have narrative dominance, you know, they have their massive. >> right. >> wing media echo chamber. they have dominance online, which allows. >> them. >> to shape. >> the narratives. and as you said, sometimes even most of the time radically distort it. and that's why one of the big through lines here is that what they're trying to do. is make. >> things more efficient. >> they're trying to root out corruption. and so the more things get pushed back on them, they point to that as evidence that, well, part of the reason

why they're pushing back is because they're anti-corruption. and then, as you noted, when you layer on this idea that the courts are beginning to apply the law and say, wait a minute, you know, let's sort of evaluate here, come in here and make your case. some of these things are are illegal or some of these things seem extra, you know, extra illegal. they're saying, well, that's further evidence that the deep state is so widespread that we need to expand our purge. and that's really what this is about. this is about cleaving out as much as of government as they possibly can, partly because they want to consolidate power inside donald trump and inside a very, very small cluster and amongst themselves. and part of it, because they it's not just about shaping government, it's about reshaping our culture. and that's the thing for me that's really alarming about this, is that they think politics and government is downstream from culture. and so a lot of the discussion and as you said, how they're presenting these things is that they are telling a story. and, you know, burgeoning authoritarianism, fascism is theater. and that's what you're seeing unfold here right now. and so this public give and take it is really important. we can't dismiss it. but the narrative

ultimately that's seeping into the zeitgeist. that's the thing that's going to ultimately matter the most in the long run. >> i agree that the narrative is incredibly important, and i. >> think it. >> is why we. >> are. >> looking for people who are meeting. >> the moment. >> and i would. >> include representative. >> stansbury among the few who are sort of understanding how to explain this. i want you to take. >> a. listen to some of what she. >> had to say during. >> the doj's subcommittee hearing. >> donald trump and elon musk are recklessly and illegally dismantling the. >> federal government. we're not trying to. >> take down elon musk as a businessman. this dude is literally breaking the law inside of the federal government. and for a party that is supposed to be the party of law and order in quotes, i really do not see you holding him accountable and doing your most basic constitutional responsibility in the separation of powers. >> at some point, congress and republicans. >> in congress have to be willing to say, enough's enough. >> this this is it.

>> and i get the narrative, but. this is it. >> it's illegal. what musk and trump are. >> doing right. >> now is. >> illegal and unconstitutional. >> that's what they're doing. and that. >> needs to be hit home every single day. >> we are in a constitutional emergency. >> a crisis. call it what you want. we have two. independent branches. >> of government right now. my former branch. >> wait, which two. >> are you counting? >> i'm praying. >> that the courts remain independent. congress is. >> gone. >> and i think. >> the american people. >> need to really understand this. the legislative branch of the united states. >> government right now is no longer. >> independent in a. >> healthy america and a. healthy democracy. elon musk would have had his hauled in front of. >> congress two weeks ago. >> and just ask questions. >> under oath. what are you doing? >> right? what are. >> you. >> have the authority. >> to do? >> none of that's gone on because republicans have pledged fealty to trump and not the constitution. >> they had an opportunity to. >> subpoena him, and they chose.

>> not to. >> well, i. would even argue, joe. >> that elon. >> musk's position. probably wouldn't even have seen the light of day, because if congress was doing. its constitutional job right, it would have recognized. upfront what this was and said, wait a minute, time out. no, we're not going there. there would have been the appropriate back channeling to the white house to say, you put him up. this is what's going to happen. the same with. >> all the nominees. >> and so i think to your point, it really does raise the question that musk is quoted as saying, i love this quote because it applies so much to him. he says, i think we do need to delete entire agencies as opposed to leave part of them behind. if you don't remove the roots of the weed, then it's easy for the weed to grow back. but if you remove the roots of the weed, it doesn't stop weeds from ever growing back. but it makes it harder. this is the idiocracy that's taken over and now running our government. and

so as a former member, when you hear someone like this talking about, oh, we're just going to eliminate departments and we're just they're just weeds, let's just clear them out. that tells me elon musk, the richest man presumably on the planet, doesn't give a damn about the grandma out there who needs that agency that he wants to weed out, or those kids in poor communities? a lot of them in appalachia, alabama, mississippi. shall i go on? red states that are now whining about the fact that the weed cutting is guess what? hitting their backyard? so how do how do you talk about everyone needs to understand this. at what point do they once once the weeds have been taken out? once those those agencies are gone and you know, it's going to be hard to recover from this on the back end. no one's talking about that, folks. >> no rebuilding. >> looks like no one talks about what rebuilding looks like when all. >> these federal. >> employees are gone. and when

this idiocracy is toast and put to the side. how do you rebuild. >> the american. >> people again? >> i do not fundamentally understand. >> what's going on right now. >> our founders. >> gave us a beautifully complicated system separation of powers. but there's a weakness. >> in that system. and we. >> have a. >> guy right now. >> who's taken advantage. >> of that weakness. he's basically. >> co-opted one branch. >> of government. >> he's flooding the other branch. with thousands. of executive orders. the courts are doing their best to keep up. most of what he's doing will get knocked down, but there will be enormous damage that's being done that will have. >> been done. this is on congress. >> congress has abdicated their job. >> it really makes me wonder what have they already gotten access to? you know, what are they doing with the data? in one respect, doge has installed their own server. hello, hillary clinton server. their own

server. and opm. like, why they need their own server? what? >> what is going on? >> i don't think i think your reaction is not is not unique. even if you don't know all the details, even if you're not paying attention to every little, you know, minor thing or new infraction or new problem, there is a general. regardless of where people sit on the political aisle, there is a broad scale recognition of something unsettling and uneasy. right now, when you watch heads of state meeting with musk and then trump, when you do, when you see trump and musk doing a joint appearance on sean hannity, which would have seemingly been unthinkable in the first administration, where, you know, trump is talking about giving musk more power. there's something uncomfortable about it. and when you hear all these little things, an agency got fired there, something got deleted there. they got access to all this data here. he's already the richest person. we've shut down all these investigations here into his companies. people say, oh, there's something not right about this. and i think and then as the congressman was talking about before and michael, you then start to see the day to day

effects of, of how this is affecting people's lives. that's where the connective tissue comes in. you know, the reason why these stories matter and being able to connect the dots matter is that you have to start by saying there's something unsettling going on here. validate and recognize those feelings. you know, you can talk to people's heads, hearts or their gut, and you have to start with people's gut. and that what you just expressed is that gut reaction to the moment. but then you have to then build on top of that story. and the so what is that? if you get they have such a small margin in congress that the only way to actually get congress to act is to build that story and that public pressure directly on congress. it is movable. that's the leverage, though. >> that is the leverage. john angelo are going to stick around. we're going to talk about donald trump's mass firings of federal employees. and then later in the hour, former acting labor secretary julie su will join us to discuss the possible effects of the donald trump tariffs on the united states workforce. you're watching the weekend, folks.

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people are standing up for usaid and foreign aid in the history of the agency, as any other president ever tried to remove a member of the board the way donald trump tried to remove you? what do you think democrats can do right now, in opposition, to try to mitigate some of the harm that's being caused as they dismantle the federal government? the opposition is now awake and increasingly emboldened. told you it's on. it

is on. >> we are back. >> with. >> more breaking news. >> donald trump's. >> effort. >> to drastically reduce. >> the federal. >> workforce has hit a snag. >> in court. on friday, a federal judge temporarily blocked the. >> consumer financial protection bureau from firing. >> employees without cause. >> however, the white house says. >> more than. >> 75,000 federal employees have accepted. >> a so-called. >> deferred resignation offer. those who stepped down were told they'll be paid through september. it is not clear whether that promise will actually be kept. >> meantime. >> the trump administration. >> is pushing. federal agencies. >> to fire. >> probationary employees. now, we should note. >> these workers. >> who have been on the job. >> for only. 1 or 2 years before all their civil service. protections have kicked in. >> probationary status. is not a reflection of someone's job performance. >> back with. >> us, joe. walsh and angelo carusone. >> ken, can i just i mean, i used to be a federal employee. my dad was a federal employee. >> i'm sorry. when you were the

lieutenant governor. >> no. >> no, i'm about to say no. >> no. when i was younger. >> okay. >> i had a life before being lg. >> okay. i just wanted to make sure. claiming to be a government employee as. >> lieutenant governor. no, i worked in the congressional office on the hill, and i worked at the us naval lab. so. but so my point my point is coming out of a family with federal employees. the washington post helps us understand a little bit better what we're talking about here. occupations across the federal workforce run the gamut. the government employs aerospace engineers, museum curators and riverboat operators and people who handle every day everything from the toxic materials for missiles to cleaning dirty laundry. despite common misconceptions, federal workers do not live in and around washington, d.c, while the nation's capital and its surrounding suburbs may symbolize the federal

bureaucracy, trump and musk seek to slash most of the federal workforce. more than 85% live elsewhere. work elsewhere. they're in your backyard, america. so the thing that you hate so much. and angelo, this this is the part i don't get my head wrapped around. the thing that people hate the most is the thing they need the most. and the neighbor next to them is the one who's providing that service, who gets up and goes into office to process their paperwork to, as was noted, pick up their trash and do other things. talk about that side of this from what you're what you're picking up in your reporting and coverage of this. how much of this part of the story is not getting absorbed by the people out there? i think the way it should be.

>> it's not. i mean, people just don't realize it. they honestly don't know. i mean, even when they start to feel the immediate effects of it, like the a contract got canceled or even their ability to get information that they would have gotten easily, you know, three months ago slows down all across the country. they don't really understand what's going on. they're not drawing their connection back to trump. and that's because the overwhelming part of this story is, is that, you know, they've always the right wing, has always portrayed government employees as sort of in this imperial city, making lots of money on the backs of the american worker. and that was a core part of trump's campaign. i mean, he announced his reelection in waco, which was a site of a massive anti-government attack. he said, i'm going to be an instrument of revenge. so these cuts are not designed to actually, you know, create a lot of savings in the federal government. what they're designed to do is be or appear as and be an instrument of revenge. and so they lump in, you know, a lot of the workers that you talked about, but the average person who's listening

to talk radio every day and has been, you know, hopped up on right wing media for decades. the impression that they have of a federal workforce is people making a lot of money by overtaxing them and not doing a lot of work. and that's where the story that they that, you know, trump and the administration and musk and x and their echo chamber, they're able to push that and mask the real harms. and but we just you know, democrats just shouldn't sit idly by by it either. they need to recognize that we live in a different landscape and be able to draw attention to where those pain points are, because those are the people that individuals rely on the most. this should be the easiest story to tell if you sort of reorient and shift to the current moment. but but that's not how it's playing out day to day. i was just gonna say, and. >> by the way, angela's right. i used to do some of that right wing fear mongering. democrats need to tell these stories. democrats need to talk like regular people and. >> not politicians. >> democrats need to display some righteous anger. look, everything trump's doing, firing

and furloughing. >> these employees. >> is. >> also illegal. >> and unconstitutional as well. the courts. >> need to do their job. but in the meantime. democrats need to. >> be an opposition party and talk. >> like regular. >> people and tell. >> these stories. 4/5 of federal. >> workers work. >> out there out. >> in the. country somewhere. >> not in d.c. >> this is true. my father tested the. and i was not a government worker. i guess i was. i worked in the white house, but that was very different. honey, that's. >> the one. >> i get to. i finally get to be a part of the 1% for, like, five seconds. but my father tested the water. he worked for the army corps of engineers, and his job was to test the water every. which is why i don't drink tap water to this day, honey. but like, those are the. those are the jobs. and you've got a.f.g. who put out a statement about these probationary firings? these firings are not about poor performance. there's no evidence these employees were anything but dedicated public servants. they are about power. they're about gutting the federal government, silencing workers, forcing agencies into submission to a radical agenda that

prioritizes cronyism over competence. that's that's exactly what you were saying. so i guess, angela, my question is, then, are the rallies outside the government agencies? is this what democrats should be doing? i mean, do you think being locked outside the department of education, trying to get in the doors is what more do they. do you think they should be doing? >> look, i mean, i think it i don't think they should be feeding into a narrative of impotency. and that's sometimes when they do, it's, you know, it's both a day late and a dollar short. they show up, you know, two days after the news cycle, and then they look weak. and what do i think they should be doing? exactly what the congressman said before it starts connecting to harms. they cut money for children's hospitals across the country. massive operating budgets. children's hospitals are literally in the process of laying off and staff and reducing care for sick children, something that should be the easiest and most sympathetic thing to build support for. show up there across the country. don't show up in dc at a door

that's locked and you can't get into so that the narrative is, look, they can't do anything to protect us. they can't even get into their own buildings. no. go to a children's hospital and show them what it means for the people that are there taking care of it. and that's one small example. show up to the farmers in missouri who just had their contracts canceled from the inflation reduction act because of these reckless cuts that the trump administration is doing and say, look at this. this guy is out $300,000, he's going to lose his farm because these people are just cutting with out with reckless abandon. that is what i think democrats need to be doing. and unless they're willing to show up in those places that matter, then they're either relying on others or the media to connect those dots. and it's partly not their job. the media is not the opposition party. they have a role to play in storytelling, in journalism, in fact, in sort of fact based reporting. but they're not the opposition the democrats are, and they need to be the ones to connect those dots. >> come on now, democrats. come on now. >> he just brought churchill on on saturday. i'm about. >> to put the collection plate.

>> i could not agree with that more. and i would say if you're going to if you want to do it right, what you do is you go to that hospital in alabama where the local congresswoman has just complained about the possibility of that being closed. show up there and ask that republican member to stand with her, with you. and talk about why donald trump wants to close this hospital. >> again, angela, i cannot shout it more from the mountaintops. democrats are the opposition party. they're not the resistance. okay? i need the democrat elected officials to act like the opposition party in this country. former congressman joe walsh. thank you, angela carson. thank you. come on here and take a photo with us. coming up, george conway is at the table, folks, as donald trump. weaponization of the justice department goes into full effect. and be sure to follow our show on social media, our handle everywhere. it's at the handle everywhere. it's at the weekend, msnbc. hi. i use febreze fade defy plug. and i use this.

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it's just, you know, i, i, i know people love to rage against the democrats. and there are folks that are like, no, the democrats are doing good stuff. and yes, the democratic attorney generals and the governors, they have been on the front lines. but i desperately want the democrats in congress to find their footing collectively and quickly, because the footing is not outside the department of justice not trying to get in. you got to be outside. at least get arrested. honey, i pushed through. yeah. y'all would have to. >> call the police on me. i would have pushed through, too. i, you know, if i'm going to go to the department, it's not going to stand there and let some punk tell me i can't come in when. especially when he can't even tell me who told him to stand there. i mean, so i'm like. government employee, you know, clearly. so i look, i think that piece of it is an important aspect. and i love the way angela and joe frame that. but i'm still at this point, back to the broader question for the american people. y'all are

letting this happen. you're seeing this unfold every day. and don't sit there and pretend you don't know a neighbor who's right now scared to death about what's going to happen to their family, what's going to happen to their job, what's going to happen to their community. so, you know, we have to stop being as selfish as we are and thinking, oh, we're all about the retribution because that comes back home real fast. >> and come. >> back home. >> every day. >> exactly. every day. >> and it's not elon musk. it's russ vogt. project 2025. and russ vogt. he said he wanted to inflict trauma on the federal workforce. that is trauma on people's mothers and fathers, their aunts and uncles nursing. my mother in law was a nurse at the va for more than 30 years. there are nurses right now whose whose fellowships were canceled, whose jobs were taken away because of the hiring freeze. like, what are we talking about? >> can i just say, i love how they have railed. >> against federal workers. >> and remote work. >> but then elon musk. >> has the. >> audacity to bring a child.

>> into the oval office. like i agree, child care is expensive. >> and it is. >> a national emergency. but can you imagine. >> if i just showed. up here with my. >> two children? >> oh shush. the president, by the way. now children do repeat what they have heard. i want to know where elon musk's son heard that you are not the real president and you need to go. i want to know where elon musk's son heard you should. you need to shut your mouth right now looking at the united states of america. i got questions. >> i got the answer. he heard it from his daddy because that's what his daddy thinks of the puppet that's sitting in front of him, known as donald trump. anyway, up next, breaking news from the munich security conference as president zelenskyy speaks exclusively with nbc news. folks, you are watching the weekend and i know watching the weekend and i know (vo) memory and thinking issues keep piling up? it may seem like normal aging but could be due to a buildup of amyloid plaques in the brain. the sooner you talk to your doctor, the more options you may have.

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and where it's headed next. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now when you need brutal honesty, when you need answers first thing in the morning, when you need to go deep inside washington and hear from someone who's been there. you need your morning joe weekdays at six only on msnbc. >> can ukraine survive. without u.s. military support? >> probably. it will be. >> very, very difficult. >> that was ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky. shortly after meeting with jd vance and secretary of state marco rubio at the munich security conference, zelensky told nbc's kristen welker that russian president vladimir putin wants to come to the negotiating table not to end the war, but to get a ceasefire deal that would lift certain international sanctions on russia and would allow its

military to regroup. joining us now is former state department senior adviser nayyera haq. well, what do you think about that? yeah. >> i mean, this is just. >> it's not unexpected, given how trump was in his first term and everything he said in the campaign. but it's just this idea of america being alone and america abandoning allies is a good thing. i don't know, i don't know about anybody who is better off emotionally in the world because they have no friends and they sit at home taking, you know, tinkering with their own toys. >> i think. >> america alone. >> is a necessary reframe of america. >> first to say there is a. >> reason we. >> have allies. >> there's a. >> reason we. >> show up for. >> our allies, both because we care about democratic. order worldwide. >> which question. >> mark of where, whether or not this administration cares. about democratic order. >> but. >> also because it is necessary. >> in order. >> to keep us safe. >> that is. >> the lesson we learned from nine over 11. literally, though, when we were attacked and we saw the two towers fall, and we realized that these were actors who were based overseas, nato came to our rescue. the only time that article five has been

invoked, and nato, as our allies, went in to help take out al qaeda in afghanistan. >> i'm sorry, the only time the article five has been invoked. who was it for? >> the united states of america. this idea that we need to handle these challenges where they begin, which is largely overseas, rather than wait for them to come hit us at home, happens because we have alliances like nato. secondly, if you actually listen to putin, this idea that putin's america's friend is completely false. when he announced his invasion of ukraine, he said it was because there's a false narrative about who won the cold war, like ronald reagan would be rolling over in his grave right now, hearing what donald trump and other republicans are doing. putin thinks that the united states talks about having won the cold war and has now taken over the world order, so that needs to be checked. so that's a signal that putin's not going to stop with ukraine. >> and the republicans who were standing with ronald reagan at that time, also understood the importance of the role of the

united states. and this was again before 911, which again, to both of your points crystallized the reality for the u.s. when we got attacked, we needed help. who do we who do we call? right? we call a whole lot of friends around the globe who came to our aid. but now you have the current republican vice president of the united states standing before our allies in munich, lecturing them with this. >> do we have. >> fundamentally, the goal is, as president trump outlined it, we want the war to come to a close. we want the killing to stop, but we want to achieve a durable, lasting peace, not the kind of peace that's going to have eastern europe and conflict just a couple years down the road. >> so the problem with that is everything that they're proposing and everything they're supporting will end in other

than something other than peace, a lasting peace down the road. what is it that folks across the country need to understand about the foreign policy of this of the u.s. right now? i mean, because, you know, we do a lot of this talk inside the beltway, you know, sometimes and we kind of wind up talking to each other and the rest of america. to angelo's point in the last segment kind of goes on to their little, you know, pocket corner and get their information. i think for us at this table, we want the american people to understand when what's being said and what it really means for them. so when they hear the vice president speak this way, and there's another sound that we can use to this sort of crystallizes that moment. what should people understand it means for them potentially down the road? >> not only is it isolation, but it's going to actually hurt you in your pocketbook at home. when it comes to the united states now looking like it only cares

about itself, which allison, i get it feeling that we're overextended. i remember when i was growing up this idea of we should not be the policeman of the world. i get that part. but working alongside people, helping people with common values helps american values continue. so what we're really seeing is an entire reframing by jd vance and trump of what america actually stands for, right? this idea that an america that stands up for democratic values, an america that stands up for pluralism, and it's now turning to an america that stands up for colonialism, right? land grabs, real estate deals. none of that benefits somebody sitting at home right now. that only benefits the people who are making the real estate deals. >> i want. >> to take a. >> listen to the other sound we have. >> of jd. >> vance talking about. >> the threat from within. >> and. >> then we'll talk. about it on the other. >> side. >> the threat. >> that i worry the most about vis a vis europe is not russia, it's not china, it's not any other external actor. and what i

worry about is the threat from within the retreat of europe from some of its most fundamental values, values shared with the united states of america. >> one of. the things. >> that strikes me about the. >> first piece. >> of. >> sound we played, and then that piece. >> of sound. >> is. >> that it. >> sounds innocuous enough. if you do not. >> dig into. >> the details. >> and if you're. >> not looking at it. >> which values or. >> which shared. >> values are we talking about? >> so let me. pull up this. >> from the. >> washington post. >> which is. >> that vance met. >> with the leader of a far. >> right german. >> party. >> exported the maga message when they say. >> shared values, which values? pray tell. >> i wish i was exaggerating when i say nazi values, right? i mean, this is the far, far right party in germany which understands what this kind of extremism can lead to. they are not in power right now. and for jd vance to say the will of the people, apparently the will of the people is great when trump wins in the united states. but he refused to meet with the elected leader of germany, the german chancellor, and instead

goes and meets with this far right extremist party out of power, saying they're the will of the people. so what he's really presenting for the united states internally and overseas is that the will of the people is white, christian, male and willing to fight for that identity. >> the that's not subtle, right? it's not. >> subtle at all. >> it's not subtle. >> and there's a parallelism between what is happening. >> in israel and. >> gaza and what is happening in ukraine, in the sense. >> that there. >> it is. >> one thing to deal with the immediate crisis before. >> us, and it is another thing to. actually build up an understanding and. infrastructure that guarantees the understanding. there is no guarantee. >> that we're. >> not. >> back here. >> in 3 to 4. >> years. >> because all the diplomacy i thought. >> well, it's supposed to be diplomacy and diplomacy, what they used to call the international world order post world war two. and that is part of what putin and now trump are an alliance against all of that. they don't want rules that actually impact all people.

we've even had the secretary of defense talk about how, you know, those rules about war crimes that limits americans opportunities to do what they need to do. i'm like, oh, i didn't know we needed to commit war crimes to meet any of our objectives. but okay. right. this is they don't want those rules. they want what they decide for themselves is better. and that that is a new alliance. that is a new alliance. now, the united states and russia, possibly even, you know, some china on the side, but certainly not europe. >> can i just say this point about putin and trump being aligned? when donald trump talks about taking greenland, when he talks about taking canada, canada becoming the 51st state, that to me sounds like vladimir putin saying he wants crimea and the parts of ukraine. this is trampling on what, you know, the people would call territorial integrity, but like, not respecting the sovereignty of people's borders is something that dictators do. it's something that authoritarians do. it's not something i thought that americans and american presidents and people who believe in democracy do. but that's why it's not a joke when

he talks about canada being the 51st state, it's actually a threat, a huge threat. >> and it's laying the groundwork for this idea that america itself now will become a new imperial country, and that people want that. >> i just saw gladiators like rome back in the day. >> you're a hawk. thank you. >> so much for. >> being at. >> the table with us. ahead. expanding tariffs. >> and. >> cutting the federal workforce. >> former acting labor secretary. >> julie su will talk us through. the possible effects of donald trump's. >> latest moves. >> latest moves. >> you're watching the weekend. still have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis... ...or crohn's disease symptoms after taking... ...a medication like humira or remicade? put them in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief with rinvoq. check. when flares tried to slow me down,... ...i got lasting remission with rinvoq. check. and many were in remission... ...even at nearly 2 years. and rinvoq... ...helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining. check. rapid symptom relief. lasting remission.

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rolled out his plan to increase tariffs on u.s. trade partners, including our allies. now, in short, these reciprocal tariffs would match the tax rates that other countries charge on products imported to the united states. as associated press reports, trump's republican administration has insisted that its new tariffs would equalize the ability of u.s. and foreign manufacturers to compete, though under current law, these new taxes would likely be paid by american consumers and businesses either directly or in the form of higher prices. trump himself even admitted that americans might pay higher prices as a result of his his moves. >> i think what's going to go up is jobs are going to go up and

prices could go up somewhat short term, but prices will also go down. >> how could these tariffs affect the labor market. joining us now, former acting labor secretary under secretary. excuse me secretary under president biden julie su. thank you so much. >> secretary sue good to see you. >> so you have brookings. >> estimating that these tariffs. >> could lead to over 400,000. >> american jobs lost. >> explain to. >> us what. >> that would mean if you think that number is right, what that. >> means for. >> the us economy. >> i mean, look, job creation is one of the most fundamental priorities of any presidential administration. we already know that the first time around, president trump left office with fewer jobs than when he came in. and this is not what a pro worker agenda looks like. i think it's important just to recognize what we're seeing right now is a strategy of

really three things. it's to divert, it's to damage, and it is to distract, to divert, you know, money to justify what this administration by and for billionaires has already said, which is they want to provide tax. cuts for the rich, and they want to be able to say, well, we can afford to do that because we've made cuts elsewhere. and that's, you know, that's a problem, right? and then they want to actually, you know, they want to really damage any institution that would hold them accountable for these things. we've seen them do that from the very beginning. and these kinds of policies that they throw out there that aren't going to actually help anybody is a part of just damaging the fundamental structure of our economy and of our country. and then the diversion piece is really or the distraction piece is really, you know, what we're talking about are not the things that really affect everyday americans. right? we're talking about all these other crazy things that they throw out there instead of

the price of eggs. >> you know, i mean, well, i've heard a lot about that. let's hear what donald trump has said on the campaign trail about those eggs and the promise of lower prices. let's play that. >> i will end the devastating inflation crisis immediately, bring down interest rates and lower the cost of energy. we're going to bring those prices way down. a vote for trump means your groceries will be cheaper. groceries, cars, everything. we're going to get the prices down starting on day one. we will end inflation and make america affordable again. >> honey, in some places you can't even find eggs right now. my husband went to whole foods the other day. they had a sign that said, we are unable to find eggs that meet our quota. so i went and i bought 24 eggs out of the safeway. just, you know, to be sure. how are we just supposed to let the president off the hook all of a sudden? he's like, well, yes, some of

the prices might go up. what about bringing the prices down, sir? madam, former secretary, acting secretary, former secretary. you should have been the actual secretary, to be clear, which is a whole nother story. julie sue, about how the games republicans play in congress. but, i mean, just what is your take on this whole crisis situation, right? >> i mean, that's the thing about, you know, the games that people play. real lives are affected by this. i think what's going on is the president has again promised these tax cuts for, for, for the rich and all of these things that they're trying to do right now. right. you know, say that there's too much waste in the federal government. they're not concerned about waste. if they were worried about waste, they wouldn't have fired all the inspectors general. this is really a reverse robin hood strategy. stealing from average americans. >> to. >> give to the rich. and they want us to be distracted by these other things that they're doing, so that we're not talking about those basic fundamental promises, the basic, fundamental things that affect our everyday lives. people want good jobs.

they want access to those good jobs. they want government to function well so that we don't have to be thinking about all the time. instead, we're talking every single day about what other crazy thing is going to happen and it's not sustainable. i also think the other problem here is, you know, they don't want us talking about prices. they don't want us talking about government to function because they don't know how to govern for everyday people. and you know that that's also why they like to put up these like, strawman enemies, right? they want people to not trust institutions that would actually hold them accountable, not trust institutions that would tell the truth. that's been their playbook with the media, that's been their playbook with like the doj and the fbi, people who would hold them accountable. they want the american people. they want us to be suspicious when those institutions hold them accountable. and we're seeing that on overdrive in the first three weeks of this administration. >> madam secretary, they they may not know how to govern. and i agree with you. they don't know how to govern, but they do

know how to take your information. they do know how to develop the grift for it, because you got elon musk, department of government efficiency, receiving approval from the labor department to use software that could allow it to transfer vast amounts of data out of labor's systems, according to records seen by nbc news in interviews with two employees. so elon musk, yet again sticking his nasty tentacles in a government agency to suck out viable and important information about employees, about, you know, accounts that the labor department has. what's your sense knowing how that operation works? having someone like elon musk now, having the ability to set up his little server and suck out whatever information he wants about the people who work in the department, the programs and

services that it provides to americans around the country. >> yeah, i mean, i said, this is a government, you know, by billionaires for billionaires, but these are not just any billionaires. these are people who have built their wealth on exploiting workers and on undermining unions. and so they're descending on the department of labor, right. the department that is there to make sure that there is a first and last line of defense for working people in this country is also no accident. you know, having somebody who is being investigated by the department for health and safety violations in their workplace for, you know, for violating labor laws, having access to that information by the target of that investigation is really harmful. right. and then having this ability to say to government employees who've just been doing their jobs, we're going to get rid of you for doing what what you're supposed to do. what government is supposed to be there for is

really, you know, is really harmful. but it's not just about looking out for his own interests. it's also, as you say, michael, it's this is about the privacy, the integrity of information that people provide to the government with a certain expectation. right. we provide information to the government because government provides us with basic benefits when we need them unemployment insurance, social security, worker's compensation, whatever it is, it's not meant for anybody to just come in, take the data and then use it for, for, for, for, for their private benefit. that is fundamentally opposed to notions of privacy and notions of, you know, what government exists to do. and that's why we're so happy, you know, that there are. government employees who are standing in the breach and trying to prevent that from happening, but they're paying a really big cost for it. and that's why the fight back is so important. >> sorry. >> sue, less than 30s, but i do. >> need to know. >> former congresswoman. >> lori. >> chavez-deremer is going to have her confirmation hearings. >> this week. the one. question

you would. >> ask her? >> working people deserve a strong voice in the cabinet and a strong voice in the government. what are you going to do to really stand on the side of working people? you know, we demonstrated under president biden what it means to be pro worker and pro union. we weren't done. i'm not saying we did everything needed to be done, but there's a way to be pro worker. and given the anti worker behavior so far this administration, how are we going to turn that around. >> all right. secretary julie su thank you so much for being with us this morning. so folks refill that mug. you know here we go. we have another hour of the weekend straight ahead with george conway and maryland attorney general and anthony brown. so stick around. we're going to be right back with the going to be right back with the full mug right here. baby: liberty! mom: liberty mutual is all she talks about since we saved hundreds by bundling our home and auto insurance. baby: liberty!

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