needs. we got you. connect with the provider at ro. >> hey. >> thanks for watching this saturday morning. i'll be back here tomorrow morning from 10 a.m. to noon eastern. if you're like me, by the way, you don't know. you know, i can use this qr code barcode thing all the time. that's a qr code. you can scan it and it'll take you right to my blue sky page. or you can find me at blue sky social. but i have learned that the, the qr code is actually a barcode in two dimensions. it was invented in 1994, apparently, i think by the japanese or somebody. somebody emailed me about this. i'll get it right eventually anyway. but that's a qr code. you can also follow me on threads on linkedin and on mastodon where i post daily. stay right where you are. katie phang starts right now. >> this is the katie phang show live from telemundo studios in miami, florida. trump the job

destroyer donald trump's cruel purge of federal workers continues. as devastating job cuts rip across the country, putting thousands of hard working americans out of work. plus, loyalty tests after seven top doj prosecutors resigned in protest. what's next at trump's department of justice as it moves to drop the corruption charges against new york city mayor eric adams. and later, good trouble. boston globe senior opinion writer kimberly atkins on how americans can resist the donald trump's disorienting power grab, and what it looks like to stand up and demand our elected leaders follow our shared rule of law. all of that and more is coming up. it's the end of week four for convicted felon donald trump's presidency. and as he basks in

the balmy breeze and sun at his florida estate, mar a lago. mass firings are being executed across multiple federal agencies, impacting thousands of workers across the united states. some employees were given just two hours to collect their things before losing access to their offices. and more layoffs are reportedly on the way at the irs and possibly nasa, where members of doge were seen on friday. although we are still waiting to see evidence of the fraud and waste that first buddy elon musk claims he's ferreting out. but of course, we know that musk would never find any waste among the billions of dollars of government contracts he's directly profiting from. this comes as the white house says, more than 75,000 federal workers are roughly 3% of the civilian workforce accepted the deferred resignation offer with a promised payout. but with a

looming government shutdown less than a month away, will that promise made be a promise kept? joining me now is grace meng, the democratic congresswoman from new york. she's the chair of the congressional asian pacific american caucus, and she also serves on the house appropriations committee. congresswoman, it's always good to see you. elon musk and his co-president, donald trump, are slashing and burning government workers out of critical federal agencies. one huge example. multiple staff at the national nuclear security administration, an agency that's tasked with designing, building and overseeing the us nuclear weapons stockpile. they were terminated thursday night, then rehired friday morning. oops. so this kind of incompetence, though, by musk and his dodge bros. literally poses an existential threat to americans. what is being done to stop them? >> thank you so much, katie. it's great to be back on with you and thank you for your great work. this is a very scary time for so many americans. the way that they are handling this

without much thought process very suddenly, is impacting and harming the lives of so many americans. we are hearing from people who are veterans. people who are doing cancer, you know, health care research. and we are grateful for unions like afge who are working hard with many partners in pushing forward lawsuits. their priority and ours, all of us, should be to protect american workers. >> so this week, you called on nasa to revoke any access for elon musk and his dodge bros. to personnel and contracting files. due to your concerns of a conflict of interest for his space x company gaining inside info. i want our viewers to know spacex received nearly three excuse me, $2.32 billion from nasa in fiscal year 2023. congresswoman, isn't this exactly the kind of swampy behavior that trump claims he's reading out? but obviously it's

totally okay, though if somebody like musk benefits from it. >> exactly. i understand that many americans want to root out government waste and inefficiency, but we also need transparency. i am curious to the amount of contracts that elon musk is receiving and benefiting from, as he is alleging to be rooting out waste and transparency. he is likely the largest private contractor that has business before and with nasa. and now he is. trump is just going to let elon musk and the dodge committee waltz right into nasa. this is an affront to american taxpayers. >> so, congresswoman, we're less than a month from the march 14th deadline to avoid a government shutdown. to be clear, the democrats, you guys have always come to the rescue of all americans, regardless of party

affiliation. when you worked with republicans to pass spending bills. so our government doesn't get shut down. but i got to ask this time around. will democrats just say no? >> well, we have to remember that there is a trifecta of republican leadership right now. republicans control the house, republicans control the senate, and republicans control the white house. we democrats, from leader hakeem jeffries to our ranking member, rosa delauro, we stand ready to help, but we cannot agree to cuts that will literally harm and maybe kill american workers and families, american workers. our constituents, both in republican and democratic districts, must come first. >> and you've received hundreds of calls and messages this week from constituents who are understandably concerned about trump's executive orders and

his, i'd say, his concepts of policies, because, frankly, all we've seen are eo's at this point. you've been going to the protests outside these agencies yourselves, but what have you been telling people that they can do in opposition? >> first of all, i'm so grateful to my constituents and so many americans who are voicing their opinions, voicing their frustrations not just for themselves, but for so many americans who are directly impacted and suffering because of these irresponsible and likely illegal executive orders that are happening. we want to make sure that the american people know that we are with them. it's important also to make sure that we are not just hearing from constituents in democratic districts, but also republican districts, as well as house republicans put forth harmful legislation on the floor every single week. all it takes is for three republicans to vote with democrats, to make sure that we are not allowing harmful

legislation to pass. >> well, we can always hope that people do the right thing. congresswoman grace meng, it's always so good to see you. thank you for being here and thanks for being in the fight, i appreciate it. thank you. for more of course. and for more. joining me now is daniel koh, political strategist and former deputy director of white house intergovernmental affairs under president joe biden. dan, it's good to see you. this was another week filled with a flurry of executive orders by trump, including one that put a pause on bribery of foreign officials. that's the fcpa. i mean, i got to ask, you know, the inner workings of the oval office when you worked with joe biden. is trump just going to rule by executive order for the next four years? >> well, i think it's important to paint the picture that most people don't realize that most executive orders come first from the agencies. so you can imagine the amount of chaos that's happening right now. you have people in agencies who have friends who have just lost their jobs. they have loved ones. they're wondering if they're going to get fired themselves,

and then they're getting orders from the white house to do all kinds of executive orders that are so way beyond the pale. and so i think what you're going to see is what you're already seeing people rising up from the agencies and saying, this is not the america that i believe in, and voicing their opinions about why this is so important, that we call this out and say that this is not the american way. >> let's let's look at the objective metrics, because no matter which side of the aisle you're on, the objective metrics don't lie. despite repeated campaign promises that he would lower inflation on day one, u.s. inflation rose 3% in january on trump's watch. trump also announced this week plans for reciprocal tariffs on other countries. and while economists disagree on how much pain the tariffs are going to cause, they do expect them to push prices up even higher. will the maga cult care now because it was the economy? stupid, right? >> look, i think it will take time. the reality is, but there's this perception that the president is trying to espouse,

that this is just china and foreign entities that are going to feel this pain. it's not. there are small business people all around this country who rely on the current system to make whatever they are selling to their neighbors, to their members of the community affordable. and there is so much uncertainty now as to what the future holds for small businesses in this country, which makes up the vast majority of businesses in this country in general. and really, what is what makes america truly great? so the irony here is that he is impacting those people most with this uncertainty. and it may take a while, but i think these smart, these small business owners are incredibly intelligent and they're going to see these impacts and they're going to feel them and they're going to blame the president. >> well, they may also blame their lawmakers. right. we just heard congresswoman grace meng, right. before you talk about just how many republicans would need to vote with democrats to protect americans from these harmful policies of trump and musk. i want to point out that gop lawmakers are speaking out

now, because this is to find out for their constituents when they voted and supported donald trump, and they didn't have a problem with people like elon musk. and so, you know, dan, is there going to be enough pressure from constituents to have these republicans grow a spine when it comes to these critical votes? we haven't seen it happen on those senate confirmation hearings. >> you know, the reality is the republicans control congress right now, but it's not an overwhelming majority. and i think these members of congress are going to listen to their constituents when they start feeling the pain of the tariffs, when they start seeing disabled veterans who are trying to help all kinds of people across this country who have served our country, losing their jobs arbitrarily. you know, people forget what career employees do because oftentimes they're behind the scenes. but this is the backbone of our country. people talk about government efficiency. i think people care most about government efficacy. and so whether it is getting your passport renewed and having it happen fast so that you can

go overseas with your family all the way up to the nuclear stockpile that you talked about. this is the things that make people believe in our government. and these are the things that the president is so arbitrarily dismantling that people will see. and there are smart americans out there who will know who to blame when the time comes. >> you know, daniel, i will say this. i appreciate that sentiment because i often like to say that democracy is local. we think a lot about it happening in d.c, but a lot of it happens. it impacts us in our backyards, in our neighborhoods. and to that point, people are going to start feeling it. but maybe and hopefully they'll do the right thing. daniel koh, thanks for joining the katie phang show today. it's good to see you. >> good to see you too, katie. thank you. >> and still to come on the show without fear or favor. the latest on the doj's late night move to drop the case against indicted new york city mayor eric adams, and how the apparent quid pro quo between adams and trump's justice department could trump's justice department could backfire. keep it right here. ♪♪ sonya earlene

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>> after a week of very public turmoil, convicted felon donald trump's department of justice filed a motion last night to formally ask federal judge dale ho to drop corruption charges against new york city mayor eric adams. the four page filing urged dismissal, quote, because of appearances of impropriety and risks of interference with the 2025 elections in new york city. but this move came only after seven federal prosecutors resigned in protest. and in principle, after refusing to honor emil bovi's demand to drop the charges, top manhattan federal prosecutor danielle sassoon resigned after alleging that the mayor's lawyers had negotiated for a dismissal in exchange for adams's assistance with trump's immigration crackdown. but it was ausa hagen scott and scorcher of a resignation letter that left many in awe. he wrote in part, quote, any assistant u.s.

attorney would know that our laws and traditions do not allow using the prosecutorial power to influence other citizens, much less elected officials, in this way. if no lawyer within earshot of the president is willing to give him that advice, then i expect you will eventually find someone who is enough of a fool or enough of a coward to file your motion. but it was never going to be me. joining me now is andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel, msnbc legal analyst, the co-host of the podcast main justice, and the coauthor of the trump indictments. the historic charging documents with commentary. andrew, it's good to see you. i think you share my kind of disbelief at how things have kind of unraveled this week at s.d.n.y. but i wanted to ask you straight out of the gate. i think judge ho orders a hearing in this case. i think he orders a full blown hearing in this case before it gets dismissed. what would that hearing look like? >> so agree with you, and i

think one of the reasons that that's going to happen is because as you and i know, this does not happen. this is so, just so unusual to see career people resigning rather than follow an order. and they do that when they believe that the order is illegal and or unethical. in fact, the only other time in recent history i can think of that is in trump 1.0, when prosecutors resigned in the roger stone case, rather than carry out instructions that they believed were also improper. so i think that judge ho is going to have a hearing, and he has every reason to do it. i can give you two reasons. i think he will. one is, as you noted, danielle sassoon and her colleagues say, that there's this improper quid pro quo and that has been disputed by eric

adams counsel. so there is a factual dispute, and that gives every reason for a judge to hold a hearing. that's what judges do when there's a factual dispute. and he can say to a meal, beauvais, if you think this is wrong. if you think that this is not what happened, you can come here and take take the stand and put your right hand up and swear to tell the truth. and i will make credibility determinations. and oh, by the way, and this is something you will appreciate as a trial lawyer, you know, those notes that you confiscated and you didn't want anyone to see? bring those with you. i want to see what the contemporaneous notes are, that you didn't want anyone to take out of that room to see what people were saying about that meeting. >> so, andrew, i want to stay in this because i find the procedure to be just as fascinating as the substance sometimes. right. so you could envision an evidentiary hearing

perhaps in, in camera, meaning not open to the public, but one within which lawyers even representing eric adams, for example, would have to take the oath to tell the truth, take the stand, and have to attest as to whether or not they were complicit in a quid pro quo agreement with the doj. >> yeah, i by the way, i think this is an open court. i don't i don't see this as being something that would be sealed. i don't see any reason why, given what has already transpired and has been made public, that this would be something that needs to be sealed. and if there are pieces of it that potentially need to be sealed, fine. but i think this would be an open court. one thing also, katie, is although i think it's much more likely that there will be a hearing. but if the judge and that's a big if, if the judge were to find that someone in front of him was lying, he can refer them for a

prosecution. he can even appoint a special prosecutor if he, the department of justice, refuses to prosecute his colleague on the bench in the southern district of new york. louis kaplan people may recall that name because judge kaplan oversaw the e. jean carroll cases. he did just that. he appointed a special prosecutor when the department of justice refused to go forward. so judge ho has a number of options in front of him. but i agree with you. the first one is to hold a hearing about the factual dispute. so you know my eyes, what i'm keeping focused on is what i think is going to happen this upcoming week. is that factual dispute being resolved by the court. >> and so ultimately, we did see that noel pross motion or the motion to dismiss filed emil bove having to put his john hancock on it, despite all of the drama leading up to it. but it was signed off by two other main justice lawyers because, again, nobody s.d.n.y. was going

to sign off on it. one of them was this guy named ed sullivan. he's on his way out. he's retiring. but i was really alarmed when i heard that beauvais is having this meeting at main justice and public integrity. the irony does not escape any of us. right. he's having this meeting. it's an hour long meeting, and he's like, somebody better take the fall for this. somebody better sign this. and in the end, ed sullivan steps up. i mean, was this a i love my pension. i want to keep my pension move by ed sullivan or was this a i am going to come to everybody's kind of rescue, and i'm going to take it for the team. >> well, i think it was the latter. the reports are that a number of people, not just in the southern district, but also at main justice in washington, refused to go along with the beauvais order, clearly thinking that it was improper to do what he is he ordered to be done, and that he put all of these people in the public integrity section

in a room and said, if one of you does not sign this, i think actually two of you do not sign this, i'm going to fire everyone. i mean, this is like a hostage situation. and it's very interesting. as you said, there are two people who signed the actual motion. but if you look at it, katie, it's really fascinating. while those two career prosecutors are have signed it, they actually don't make any factual representations. all of the representations are that emile beauvais, the acting deputy attorney general, has found x that emile beauvais wants me to do this. they actually don't sort of perjure themselves or say anything other than this is what he wants us to do. so that gives one more reason for judge ho to ask a lot of questions, because the two of the three people who are signing this submission are really not representing anything other than emile beauvais is saying this is

what he wants. so it was sort of carefully done on their part to not have to own what it is that a mo beauvais is doing here. >> yeah. it was not only carefully crafted, andrew, but there was a footnote on page one of this filing that made it clear that main justice had to enter an appearance on this case because of the southern district of new york lawyers. remember, they got suspended. they got suspended by emile beauvais on this case. so they're not even on this case anymore. i mean, it is a pandora's box. i think beauvais sorely miscalculated on this. bondy, trump, everyone. i think they sorely miscalculated how this would be. andrew weissman, my friend, it's good to see you in, as we say. >> to see you. >> when we come back. a fragile peace we're going to take. you live to israel. for the latest on today's hostage release by hamas. as trump this morning again threatened consequences if hamas failed to release all of the remaining hostages by noon the remaining hostages by noon today. that's coming

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out of israel today. three more hostages were reunited with their families in israel this morning after being released by hamas as part of that ceasefire agreement. sigi chen, alexander sasha trufanov and yair horn are currently receiving medical treatment at local hospitals. in exchange, israel released 369 palestinian prisoners, the largest number released during the first phase of the current ceasefire deal. joining me now for more live from tel aviv is nbc international correspondent hala gorani. hala, it's good to see you. this is the sixth hostage prisoner exchange since the ceasefire deal commenced. how close are they to phase two, which would include a longer truce period and the release of the remaining hostages. >> so, katie, we have two more

batches in addition to the contingent of israeli hostages we saw released today. you mentioned their names there in the intro. the youngest is 26, sasha trufanov, i should say 29. apologies. he turned 29. in captivity. the oldest is yair horn, who's an argentinian israeli citizen and an american israeli. shaggy, 36 years old, he is the father of three daughters, one of whom he only met today for the first time. she was born two months after he was taken from kibbutz nir oz on october 7th. so what we saw was a very stage managed display of hostages in gaza, in khan yunis, in the southern part of the besieged enclave by hamas. the hostages were made to hold certificates. one of them was given some sort of trophy. we understand that sagi cohen, whose daughter, as we mentioned, his third daughter, was born while he was in captivity, that

hamas militants gave him a gold coin, we understand, for his new baby girl. now, this, of course, very stage managed and whatever these hostages had to say in public, probably these were things that were they were made to say under duress. you also had on the palestinian side of things, 36 life sentences. so palestinians serving life sentences, 36 of those released and over 300 who were arrested, taken inside of gaza after october 7th, returned to gaza and there to you kind of had a battle of the optics because those palestinians who were released by israel were made to wear shirts with we will not forget, we will not forgive, written both in hebrew and in arabic. and it's the prayer of david as well as part of the inscription on those shirts. now, the big question, katie, is, of course, is what happens next? do we get to phase two? it's a very fragile truce so far.

>> nbc international correspondent hala gorani, thank you for the latest updates. i appreciate it and it's good to see you at the munich security conference on friday, vice president j.d. vance chastised european leaders, berating them for what he described as, quote, censoring free speech. and as elon musk pointed out on x, remixing the maga message to, quote, make europe great again. >> the threat that i worry the most about vis a vis europe is not russia, it's not china, it's not any other external actor. and what i worry about is the threat from within. the retreat of europe from some of its most fundamental values. >> after this performance, i'm sure europeans are asking themselves, what with friends like this, who needs enemies, right? so joining me now is edward luce, u.s. national editor of the financial times. i mean, look, we're just one week from the federal election in germany. vance meeting with

alice weidel, the leader of the alternative for germany afd, a far right political party with rabid anti-immigrant mission statements and an embrace of nazi slogans. and then vance is lecturing european leaders to stop shunning those kinds of leaders of extreme parties, saying there's no room for firewalls. i mean, ed, is this now the new american foreign policy? we're just going to be the bully on the european stage. >> i think, katie, sadly, it is. this, after all, is a security forum. the munich security conference, in which ukraine is absolutely front and center of everybody's minds. the vice president was expected to speak about that. instead, he barely referenced ukraine and said that the greater threat to europe was its own suppression of free speech. and he gave three examples one from germany, one from sweden, one from britain,

none of which really sort of amounted to attacks on free speech. but the german one in particular, germany, has anti-hate speech laws for very sound historic reasons. mein kampf, hitler's testimony is banned in germany for very good reasons. shortly before a german election for an american vice president to come in and say, you've got to get rid of the firewalls with your far right, with your nazi adjacent party, you've got to bring them in. and this is the greatest threat to your freedom. not bringing them in is a sort of twisted alice in wonderland version of reality, that it's a real shock to europe. this is this is not something anybody's used to from from visiting american administration figures. >> and, you know, edward, what also happened to is treasury secretary scott benson meets with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy in kyiv on

wednesday. and during that meeting, the united states makes what i think is yet another quid pro quo offer to ukraine, right. they say give us 50% of your rare minerals ownership of your rare earth minerals in ukraine, and in exchange, we will be open to deploying american troops to guard those minerals. if there is a deal with russia to end the war. i mean, this does not safeguard democracy on any continent, but it sounds to me like trump is willing to have american bloodshed over rare earth minerals, if that's what ukraine would be willing to do. >> and it's very interesting. zelenskyy, you know, has to be very, very polite and diplomatic. but he rebuffed. he was asked by scott benson to sign this piece of paper, giving up half of ukraine's mineral resources. and he politely refused to, pointing out that it contained no security

guarantees. and in fact, the way that secretary besson presented this to zelensky was that this is for past. this is an exchange for past american assistance to ukraine. it has no future implications for america's support for ukraine, or indeed, for including ukraine. in talks between russia and the united states to end this war. so, you know, he's not even inviting zelenskyy to his own funeral. again, something without precedent. and i think a deep shock to people beyond ukraine, across europe, i mean, in every european capital. and i should note, actually, there is a lot of pushback finally coming from europeans, including germany's chancellor olaf scholz. it's next chancellor, friedrich merz and from the british prime minister, keir starmer. now emmanuel macron. the word

appeasement is being used of description of the trump administration's approach to putin's russia. and that word, of course, has deep historical sort of echoes, particularly in the city of munich. so they are pushing back. that's the silver lining to the really quite shocking events of this week. >> and, you know, as we part, i just want to say quickly, though, it is shocking that the word appeasement is being used and that it's being used by our allies and not being invoked by americans to defend democracy, i guess we're just going to have to see what happens. ed, luce, it's good to see you. thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> coming up next, united we stand, colorado attorney general phil weiser on the multi-state lawsuit against unelected technocrat elon musk and his unfettered access to the federal government's most sensitive government's most sensitive secrets. keep it right here.

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>> trump and dodge are being sued a lot, and as they should be. several attorneys general have taken the fight to the battleground of the courtroom, seeking judicial intervention to protect their constituents rights. yesterday, a federal judge in the southern district of new york extended a temporary block on dodge, accessing the treasury department's payment system in a lawsuit that has been brought by 19 attorneys general. but that judge did not indicate when she would rule on a more permanent solution. joining me now is colorado attorney general phil weiser. attorney general weiser, it's good to see you. i'm always impressed with the filings that are coming out of the coalition of ags that you are a part of. let's talk about strategy moving forward, though, for our viewers that are tuning in. what you have in hand right now is a temporary injunction, meaning just a temporary block until a federal judge enters a more

permanent solution, as in a permanent injunction. is there evidence that has been presented in any way by the government that would support a claim that they're rooting out waste or fraud of any sort? >> sadly, we have. >> yet to. >> see what is happening as about how to make government work better. instead, what we're seeing is a lot of unauthorized, risky and dangerous access to american sensitive and personal information. we don't want to see social security numbers or bank accounts end up on the internet or the dark web, where hackers can get access to it. we've got systems in place to ensure that our government government operations work effectively. those systems were being disregarded and the laws weren't being faithfully executed. instead, we saw a lot of risky experiments. that's why we took action. i heard from more constituents about this issue around the doj's access to sensitive information than any

other issue that i've heard about. as attorney general, by the way, the number two on that list was the unilateral spending cuts that were undermining programs interstate. we've got a successful lawsuit on that front, too. our job is to protect our constituents. for me, people here in colorado and to defend the rule of law. and we'll keep doing that. >> and i'm so glad that you brought that up, attorney general, because i think some people labor under the misconception that all of this slashing and burning that is happening to federal employees is happening just in d.c. but the reality is it's happening across the country. colorado is home, interestingly, to the largest concentration of federal workers outside of d.c, with about 40,000 employees. what specific impact will these cuts have to the functioning of federal offices. >> in colorado right now? we're reeling from the thoughts that our federal employees. take, for example, the national weather observatories that we have here, noah, or take, for example, a

lot of the work that we're doing here, the national institute for standards and technology. these are crucial to scientific research, not to mention the federal government funds lots of activities like drug interdiction or survivors of domestic violence. we're dependent on our federal government in lots of different ways, and we've had to bring lawsuits to protect our employees, including, by the way, this cuts to the national institutes of health, where colorado, just university of colorado and colorado state university would have $90 million cut overnight with no justification. a lot of times, people may not realize how the federal government impacts so many parts of our lives. the nih funding is about critical medical research, helping to save lives. people who are struggling with cancer or diabetes. they want this to go forward. we've got a vibrant economy here in colorado. and if all these steps to cut nih funding to stop federal critical programs and to threaten our sensitive information, if it goes through, we're going to

feel it. that's why we're fighting back in court. >> so i saw an interesting litigation twist i wanted to talk to you about. there's been two lawsuits that have now been filed where they're suing elon musk in his individual capacity. right. so the other lawsuits that have been that are taking place are against the administration, against donald trump as president. but now we're seeing lawsuits against elon musk individually under the same theory that you guys also filed your lawsuit about a violation of appointments clause because elon musk was never senate confirmed. what's good for the goose is good for the gander. we saw that argument before, launched by the republicans against democrats. i mean, so at this stage, are you getting any type of discovery or any type of information during the litigation process in your own lawsuit that would be useful to the american public to understand how elon musk has been able to not only gain access through his tech bros, but also how he's able to even functionally operate if he hasn't been senate confirmed. >> one of the concerns we have, katie, you put your finger on it, is what are the doj's

employees actually doing? there's been a lot of suggestions that they're going to undermine the operations of government as mandated by congress. and just to put this issue out there, we're defending our republic. we have a separation of powers. we have checks and balances. congress passes programs, social security, for example. and if we have an executive branch saying, you know, we're going to decide who gets social security checks, we're just going to hold some of them. that is illegal. that's an affront to our constitutional system of government. and it is up to the official employees who have lawful authority to exercise it. and if other people are exercising that authority, elon musk or anyone else, not the treasury secretary, not the head of key departments, that's a problem in terms of the functioning of our republic. one of the points that i would make just on what you said is we have a republic. as long as we can keep it, that means we have to safeguard our core values, which is a presidency with limited

power and separation of powers. that's what's at stake in this moment. >> people need to go back and learn that basic civics lesson, don't they, about separation of powers. colorado attorney general phil weiser, it's a pleasure to see you and keep up the good fight. it's good to see you. >> thank you. >> coming up after the break. good trouble. boston globe senior opinion writer kimberly atkins store on how we the people can rein in trump's unconstitutional paragraph when unconstitutional paragraph when the law cannot. stay with us. with fatigue and light-headedness, i knew something was wrong. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. this is no time to wait.

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high absorption and is gentle on the stomach. qanon the brand i trust. >> donald trump continues to try to force his maga vision for america by signing a flood of executive orders, but there's been some successful resistance seen in the courts. federal judges have delayed and halted some of those executive orders, including stopping cuts to the national institutes of health and blocking access to our treasury systems. the moves have frustrated trump, musk and jd vance, who responded by calling into question the authority of the judges. this prompted the american bar association to speak out in a rare move, saying, quote, these bold assertions designed to intimidate judges by threatening removal if they do not rule the government's way, cross the line. joining me now is kimberly atkins, senior opinion writer and columnist at the boston globe, the cohost of the hashtag sisters in law podcast and an msnbc political analyst.

kimberly, i have to ask because i read your latest piece and it gave me some optimism. so what do you have to say to the people that are tuning in when they don't feel optimism right now? but we do see some progress being made in places like the courts. >> yeah. >> so i think. >> one response that i was getting frequently that concerned me was the idea that, look, we have people just like a general wiser and other attorneys, generals and other folks across the board really resisting, really trying to stand up for what our government is supposed to be and, and reject the authoritarian moves that are being made by the federal government, by the executive. and i hear people say, well, if there is a court order, what happens? i mean, the president and the executive can just ignore it. they won't carry it out. or aren't there just judges who were appointed by trump who are going to rubberstamp this? or won't the supreme court, which granted him immunity, just rubber stamp it too? and what that does what those assumptions, what those statements assume is that there

will be no resistance, that we will accept this all as a fait accompli. what we've seen in the justice department alone shows you that that is not the case. this is a government made up of made up of people, not just a machine that can be controlled by an unelected, unconfirmed elon musk. there are people in this and they are fighting like hell to protect our democracy from the inside, as well as others from the outside, trying to hold it accountable. and the people are, at the end of the day, who all of them are working for. so you have a voice in all of this. if you don't think making that voice heard matters, your it really does. >> one of the most remarkable things is that aba statement that was issued this week. and i know that you can also empathize with my i was stunned when it came out. its statement defended judges. it defended the rule of law. it called out this administration pretty explicitly for the attack on the rule of law. what does it tell you, then? how does that dovetail

with the message you just said about an independent organization that is nonpartisan, being forced to have to come out and speak so forcefully about the attacks on the rule of law? >> i mean, the american bar association, if you're not a lawyer, this is a trade organization. it's meant to support lawyers. it's meant to, you know, help us understand what rules mean and civil procedure and other things and best practices. they are not a political body at all. so this is an extraordinary statement for them to be making in this moment. and i think it's meant to remind people, including those like emil bove, that they took an oath, each one of us as an attorney, we stood up and we swore to uphold the constitution and the law and to be officers of the court. it is part of our responsibility to carry it out correctly. and when that's not happening, that is a problem that goes against the rule of law. so it's a great reminder, i hope, that members of our licensing organizations are paying attention to this too. and they are holding lawyers to

the higher standard, which empowers people from the inside and outside to fight harder because they know they are on the side of justice, and they have backup from big organizations like the aba when they're moving forward. all of this is really important. it's part of this resistance. it's a collective resistance that makes it, i think in the end, that will that will win out. now, will it be quick and easy? no. will it be hard fought? will there be lost battles as well as won? those that are won, yes. but people need to hold steady to the idea of truth and not get defeated, even as this is taking place in front of our eyes. >> maxwell frost, congressman frost was on my show last week. he said hope is a choice, so we have to choose to hope. kimberly atkins store, it's good to see you. thank you for being here. >> you too. >> and thanks to all of you for joining us today. you can catch me back here next saturday at noon eastern. remember to follow us on social media, including blue sky, using that handle at katie phang show. and you can

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