of elon musk's role within the new administration. all of that at 6 p.m. eastern tomorrow, right here on msnbc. follow us on instagram, tiktok and threads using the handle at weekend capehart and blue sky using at capehart, dot, msnbc.com and catch clips of the show on youtube. you can also listen to every episode as a podcast for free. just scan the qr code on your screen to follow. keep it here. paolo ramos is in for ayman and she's next. >> good evening. >> tonight on ayman. >> top trump. >> officials are. >> heading to saudi. >> arabia to kick off peace talks between russia and ukraine. >> where does america stand? >> plus. >> given trump's tough anti-immigration stance, what's behind his sudden. >> embrace of white migrants? >> and we. >> shine a light. >> on something that's becoming

more. >> and more profitable. >> in this country. >> and it shouldn't be. >> i'm paola. >> ramos in. >> for ayman moqadem. >> let's get started. >> we begin. >> this saturday. >> with the trump. >> administration's first. >> foray on. >> the world stage. >> not even a month. >> into his second. >> term. >> after a rather. >> tense week at. >> the. >> munich security conference. nbc news has now learned. >> that secretary. >> of state marco. >> rubio. >> national security. >> adviser mike wallace. >> and. special envoy. >> steve witkoff. >> are headed to saudi. >> arabia to. >> begin peace negotiations. >> between russia. >> and ukraine. >> the timing of their travel is not. >> specified, and it's. >> actually unclear. >> whether they have already departed. >> but this move. >> isn't entirely unexpected. >> it comes just. >> days after president. >> trump said. >> that. >> he spoke. >> by phone. >> with russian. >> president vladimir. >> putin about beginning these talks. >> and it. >> also all. >> comes as. >> senior trump. >> administration officials. rubio. >> vice president. >> vance and us.

>> special envoy to. >> ukraine keith. >> kellogg were in. >> germany this week. >> for the munich. security conference. >> now at the. >> conference, special. >> envoy kellogg. >> defended the idea. >> of. >> the united. >> states engaging with. >> putin to. >> finally put an end to this. >> years long. >> war. >> saying. >> quote, whether you. >> like. it or not, you have. >> to talk to adversaries. >> now. >> while trump. >> and his allies. >> have been vocal about what ukraine. >> should. >> give up. >> in order to end this war. >> namely its. >> hope for nato membership. >> and getting back territory. >> from. >> russia. >> it's unclear what. concessions russia might be willing to give in order to end its invasion with ukraine. here's what. >> president. >> trump. >> had to say about it. >> it may be. russia will. >> give. >> up a lot. maybe they won't. and it's all dependent on what is going to happen. the negotiation really hasn't started. >> now, european. >> officials at. >> the munich security. >> conference this. >> week did express fears. >> that trump. >> is giving up. leverage to putin before peace talks have. >> even begun. >> we get. >> more. >> tonight from nbc news national security. correspondent

courtney, qb. >> ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy on the world stage at the munich security conference today, warning that as the united states steps back from europe, the allies here need to step up. >> the old days are over when america supported europe just because it always had. >> president donald trump blindsiding close u.s. allies this week, revealing a call with russian president vladimir putin announcing they agreed to begin negotiations to end the war in ukraine. zelenskyy demanding his country be included in any talks. >> ukraine will never accept deals made behind our backs without our involvement, no decisions about ukraine without ukraine, no decisions about europe, without europe. >> i fear. >> this after vice president j.d. vance stunned the crowd here, accusing europe of suppressing free speech, failing on illegal immigration and

ignoring voters. germany's foreign minister today reacting to the vice president's comments. the speech, expected to discuss peace talks, barely mentioned ukraine. in his speech. >> he focused not. on peace security. i don't know. >> why he. >> took this route. >> rather focus. >> on the question of internal issues in europe. >> vance is meeting with far right afd party leader, condemned by the german chancellor as an attempt to interfere with his country's elections. olaf schulz, rejecting vance, is meeting national security adviser mike wallace and special envoy steve witkoff are headed to saudi arabia to begin negotiations towards peace talks between russia and ukraine. and secretary of state marco rubio, already in the region, is expected to join them. >> that was. >> nbc's courtney kube. >> thank you courtney. >> with me now. >> is jason stanley. >> professor of philosophy at yale university. he is the author of erasing history how fascists rewrite. >> the past to. >> control the future. jason. >> thank you. >> so much for being with me

tonight. first of all, what do you make of this trump team heading into these talks? i mean, what kind of peace deals do you think that the. >> president has. >> in mind. >> at this point? >> well, the through line between all of these issues. >> that we've just. discussed is, is russia right? is russia's influence. >> he as you pointed. >> out. >> he didn't trump president. trump didn't mention. >> any concessions. russia might make. >> and it's not clear whether. >> ukraine will be. >> involved in these talks. >> this is. >> exactly what. putin wants. >> so it's. >> really disturbing. >> to me. >> that we're. >> seeing exactly putin's. >> wishes sort of. >> wish list be granted here. and so. >> far we. >> haven't seen anything. other than. >> what putin's. >> putin's wish. list be granted. >> and of course. vance's speech. >> about alternative. >> für deutschland. >> afd fits. into this because of day is. >> the most. >> pro-russian party. >> in europe. >> but let's think about jason.

>> what did happen this week, right. because at the munich security. >> conference. >> obviously, president zelenskyy said that putin is not ready for genuine peace talks. and he also. said that he hopes that trump is able to pressure him. but this isn't just happening in a silo, right? this comes as we know that zelensky refused to hand over half of their. >> country's rare. >> earth minerals in exchange for american military support. and so i guess the question is, who has more to lose at this point? because it seems like ukraine has a lot more. >> to lose. >> jason. >> yeah. >> ukraine was invaded by by a hostile, violent fascist government and that. >> is. >> seeking to seize the entire. >> country and its. >> democracy and put. >> it under. >> its its boot. >> and so, of course. >> ukraine has a lot to lose. >> their already. >> occupied a large. >> portion of. >> their country is already occupied. >> and now the. >> most powerful. >> leader on earth. >> president trump. >> is echoing.

>> president putin's. >> wish list. >> so ukraine. >> is in a very. >> dire position right now. >> and i just hope. >> for the sake. >> of democracy. >> worldwide. >> that that president. >> trump is, is not. >> taking putin's side. >> and so far. >> it seems that he. >> is at least to. the casual observer, i'm. >> not. >> seeing anything that would block that reading. >> they are extremely. >> vulnerable, especially. >> if we think about. >> some of the. >> comments that defense secretary pete hegseth said this week. one of the things that he said among many is that he believed that nato membership for ukraine is unrealistic. at this point. and he also. >> said that. >> they should just, like, completely abandon all hope of winning back. territory from russia. all of these things are extremely alarming. and if this were to happen, how much weaker would ukraine be left? >> well. >> the united.

>> states's position. >> right now. >> seems not to take account of the fact that putin wants. >> to. >> conquer all. >> of ukraine. they seem. >> to buy putin's line that he is just. >> all he wants is to. >> stop ukraine. from from being. >> in in nato. >> however. >> the real. goal of putin. >> has is to make sure there's. >> not a. democracy next. >> door and. >> then to. >> subjugate ukraine, like stalin. >> did and other russian. >> leaders did. before him, so he can create this great empire. >> and. >> none of these motivations are being mentioned by the. >> american side. >> their reasoning as if they're talking as if putin is. >> an entirely rational actor who simply has some. >> rational goals. >> and ukrainians. >> know otherwise, of course. >> now, i want to. >> talk about. >> vice president vance. and you already referred to this before, but during his address at the munich conference yesterday, as you noted, jason, he fully, fully embraced the far right, urging european leaders to end

the isolation of these fringe parties. he even directly addressed his german hosts, telling them to literally drop their objections to working with groups that have embraced nazi slogans. i mean, your thoughts, jason, as to what all of this means, and particularly, as you mentioned, the way that this emboldens the far right, not just in germany but across europe. >> yeah. >> choosing the far. >> right in. >> germany is particularly interesting. because this is. >> an. extreme far right. >> and what they're after. is for addressing. germany's memory. >> culture to. >> to one. >> of their. >> leaders said it's time to. stop apologizing. >> for nazi crimes. he said. >> we. >> should be proud. >> of the soldiers. in world war two. alice weidel, the. >> current leader. >> of the another leader. of the main leader. >> of afd, said it's time to get. >> beyond germany's. >> guilt cult. and in case. so. so when you. focus on on germany's far right, you're

focusing on the nazis and sort. >> of the. >> attack on. >> critical race theory. >> and black. >> history here. you're saying they should do that with the. >> nazi past there. and this is from an. administration that domestically claims to represent jewish americans in. their and the fight against anti-semitism. so the very. same administration that's claiming it's fighting anti-semitism is pushing. >> a. >> party in germany. >> that said, it's. >> time to put the nazi. past behind. >> us, and we should be proud. >> of our soldiers in both world wars, soldiers that killed. >> much. >> of my family, by. >> the way. >> of course. and this is all part of the larger plan of making europe great again. so we'll see what that means. jason, you're sticking around because next we need to talk about the trump administration's about the trump administration's sudden obsession with white dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪

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take my hand, darling. >> every day feels like, you know, trying to put 10 pounds of news into a 5 pound bag. >> do you think it. >> matters that people. >> are standing. >> up for usaid and foreign aid in the history of the agency, as any other president ever tried to remove a member of the board the way donald trump tried to remove you? >> what do you. >> think democrats can do right now, in opposition, to try to mitigate some of the harm that's being caused as they dismantle the federal government? the opposition is now awake and increasingly emboldened. told you it's on. >> it is on.

>> okay, so back with more breaking news tonight. nbc news can report that the acting director of the executive office of immigration review at the justice. >> department. >> which oversees immigration courts, fired a number of immigration judges on friday. that's according to two sources familiar with the decision and a statement from a judge on linkedin. at this hour, we cannot say for certain how many judges were impacted. the associated press, however, is reporting that it's 20. we'll have more on this as it develops. okay, so as you know, donald trump ran his campaign for president. >> on a. >> nativist, anti-immigrant platform, even going so far as saying that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country. you remember that? now, since being sworn in, he's acted on it. targeting migrants seeking refuge or asylum and creating a tv spectacle out of it. he ended humanitarian parole for immigrants from cuba, haiti, venezuela and nicaragua, leaving more than 500,000 people already living here in legal limbo. he paused the resettlement of tens of thousands of refugees, who'd

already been vetted and approved to relocate to the united states, including 15,000 afghans. hundreds of thousands of people, many fleeing state related prosecutions, being told to literally go back to where they came from, go back to your country. so, of course, it was very notable last week when trump signed a much more liberal executive order rolling out, literally, like rolling out the mat to welcome foreigners. the trump believes, are facing oppression by their governments. has he had a change of heart? i mean, is he going through some type of crisis of consciousness? he's not. trump's order directs the federal government to prioritize the resettlement of south africans of european descent through the us refugee program. yes, white south africans. give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses. and he's doing so based on the false right wing claim that the government of south africa, which was a racist apartheid regime until 1990, is now

discriminating against and confiscating land from white people, which is false. trump's favoritism towards white south africans seems to be influenced by the powerful white south africans he surrounds himself with, most notably, of course, elon musk, who has wrongly claimed that south africa is committing, quote, white genocide. but when you look at the big picture and when you take a step back at who trump is deciding to kick out of this country, but then who he wants to come in, we can see a very clear image there. it's the maga vision of the whitening of america championed by stephen miller, and all of that is now falling into place in front of our eyes. jason stanley is back with me, and joining the conversation is rich benjamin, author of whitopia an improbable journey to the heart of white america in his new book is called talk to me lessons from a family forged by history. jason, let me read you this headline from the guardian this week where there's this report, right. white supremacists in suits and ties. the right wing

afrikaner group in trump's ear. of course, this group has ties to elon musk. and but, jason, when you look at this executive order, and do you feel like the trump administration is likely to make similar exceptions for white populations from other countries, or is this purely about satisfying elon musk and the other sort of white south africans in his orbit? how do you see this all? >> this is. >> symbolic, of course. >> it's symbolic. it's supposed to suggest that the. >> real persecuted people in the world. >> right now are white christians. so this is white christian nationalism, which is what many americans. voted for. let's be clear. so this is symbolic. viktor orban said that christians. >> were the. >> most persecuted. people on earth. this is white christians are persecuted. white people are persecuted. >> it's not. >> going to make numerical differences. >> it's a symbolic show to say

that. >> everything you have. thought about 20th. >> century history is wrong. >> when musk. goes to germany and says germans should be proud of their heritage, they they should be proud of. >> the german tribes. that's very blood and soil who sees her praised. obviously there weren't jews in those german tribes. >> now we have this. >> reversal of history. >> where. >> oh, it's the afrikaners who are actually oppressed. >> and that's. >> what's going on. >> is this erasure. >> of history and reversal of it. so the real. oppressed people. >> are whites and. >> christians rich? >> jason mentions, rightly so, that this is not what american voters voted for. but i guess the question is how far can the trump administration go, given that they believe there's a mandate? right. and i'm asking you this with stephen miller in mind, because his name is written all over this. stephen miller is someone rich that we

know genuinely believes in the great replacement theory. he genuinely believes in all of these anti-immigrant ideologies. and so how far do you think they will take these immigration policies? >> well, glad to be here, paula. >> i think he will take them very far. and where the white afrikaners are concerned, it is symbolic to the extent that their numbers cannot change the magnitude of. >> of many things, but. >> where it's not a troll, where it's not simply symbolic is you are. the trump administration is changing history, and it would be comical if it weren't so horrific. this idea that you have replacement theory, this so-called idea where elites are trying to replace the white native born americans with so-called immigrants, and now we see the opposite. we have hard working refugees, hard working asylum seekers who are

supposedly going to be replaced by white afrikaners who are not at all facing discrimination or economic hardship, or who presumably will not at all contribute anything meaningful to what the economy actually needs. and this is why this is everyone's problem, is that we have these dire issues of abroad, and we have a president who is cozying up to fake allies, people who will not contribute anything to this country at the expense of our real allies who contribute so much to the well-being of america, namely germany. and that's why this ethno nationalism that he's stirring up to contribute to his autocratic project is everybody's problem. >> i think one of the things that you bring up rich and jason, i'll ask you, is this idea of the falsehoods that are behind all of this. i think one of the through lines between this executive order and all of these immigration policies is this narrative, you know, this narrative, that it is brown

migrants who are criminals, while white refugees are some types of victims, you know, vulnerable. so can you talk to me, jason, about this idea of deception or this deception that the trump administration feels that they need in order to get their stated goals? >> well, the truth is. >> irrelevant here. it's all about feeding white americans, feeling that. >> they are the. >> ones who are actually. >> oppressed, that they are the ones. >> who are actually. >> the. >> victims, that whites around. >> the world. >> they're the ones who are actually being targeted. it's all lies. >> it's all. >> you know, unhinged. but it. >> is an. >> attempt to. >> reverse, essentially. a consensus. >> that had formed that that colonization, that national socialism, that slavery, that jim crow, that these were all

forms in which. white europeans. >> and white americans. had brutally. suppressed and exploited. >> and white. >> christians had brutally suppressed and exploited people not in their group. now the attempt is to say, no. >> actually. >> that whole narrative is wrong. it was wrong in germany. it's wrong in the united states, it's wrong in south africa. >> it's white. >> christians who are the oppressed ones. and we're going to. universities that say otherwise. >> we're going. >> to switch this narrative. and obviously, it's just a tissue of lies and deception, because the real desire is to give is to feed the dominant groups. victim sense of victimhood. >> which i think the problem is when those lies don't just become policies, but they become so deeply entrenched in american psyche. now i'm thinking of this study from 2022. this study finds that 1 in 3 american adults believed in a version of the great replacement theory, in

which this was even before donald trump was out there saying all these, you know, awful things about migrants, including that they poisoned the blood of our country. and so when you think about those americans that fundamentally believe in the great replacement theory, in what fear do you have? >> my fear is this the people who surround donald trump understand that once you sow ethnic hatred in this country, you harvest a willingness among your supporters to be done with democratic principles. the rule of law, elections, intelligence. once you sow ethnic hatred, support for those democratic principles goes down. and they know that. and so that's my fear. that's my fear for this country. my other fear, paula, for this country is democratic establishment. political figures are being caught flat footed.

there's no systemic methodic effective response to all of this. they kind of have this procedural band-aid solution to everything that trump keeps proposing, but there's no coordinated response. so those are my two fears. is that a the more you sow ethnic antagonism, the more you decrease support for democracy among right wing supporters. and b there's no response, there's no adequate response from democratic political leaders to present. >> part of that response is actually from the press, which is why both of you are sticking around with me, because that's what we're about to talk about. how trump is getting more petty how trump is getting more petty with the press. got eyelid itching, crusties and swelling that won't go away? it could be... demodex blepharitis! and we're demodex mites. we're very common and super irritating to your eyelids... but we love making ourselves comfortable here!

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>> and thicker. i didn't think someone like me was at risk of shingles. the rash couldn't possibly be that painful. and it wouldn't disrupt my life for weeks. i was wrong. i didn't know that 99% of people over 50 already have the virus that causes shingles and it could reactivate at any time. i learned that the hard way, but you don't have to. talk to your healthcare provider today. >> from the moment donald trump entered politics, he made one thing crystal clear. while he loves the media, he hates a free

press. but he's taking this despise of real journalism to a new low. the white house blocked an associated press reporter and photographer from boarding air force one this weekend, just days after the administration blocked the ap from an event at the oval office. why? well, because they defied his demands, refusing to call the gulf of mexico the gulf of america. right before that, he and elon musk went after reporters at the washington post and the wall street journal by name on social media just for doing their jobs. the gulf of america stunt is bizarre, yes, but kicking out reporters and attacking them on social media, that's just classic trump right? back in 2018, you remember he had cnn's jim acosta thrown out of a press conference and told the grills, april ryan, to sit down. and since launching his second campaign in 2022, he's gone after the press, on social media more than 400 times, according to the us press freedom tracker. it's dangerous. this should not be happening in a democracy where transparency matters. but

these loud, in-your-face attacks, they're designed specifically to keep your focus on the spectacle. no, because meanwhile, while you're paying attention to that in the background, trump has been taking this quieter, more deliberate approach, slowly chipping away at the media's ecosystem that exists in his world. any outlet that doesn't flatter him is simply the enemy. now, this is brendan carr. that's the new head of the fcc. what's his job, you may be wondering? well, his job is investigating many of the media companies trump repeatedly attacks. he launched an investigation into npr over an on air recognition of financial sponsors into pbs for broadcasting the live location of federal agents. he reopened a probe into cbs for, quote, use distortion, and reopened a probe of abc for how it handled its trump and harris debate. remember, he was obsessed with that. obviously, many of these reasons are bogus and are meant to punish journalists. but the

thing is, the government's crackdown on the media isn't across the board. carr wants to slash the rules, holding back conservative tv giants like sinclair and nexstar from expanding. he's helping these stations grow, as the white house also hands out more and more press credentials to conservative influencers. now, trump is using carr to alter the media landscape and alter what kind of information americans receive. what you consume, what trump is no longer just making threats. no, it's more than just words. he's acting on them, targeting the media directly. so the question is, what does all of this mean for democracy? my panel is back with me. jason, let me start with you. since this second trump administration started, you see donald trump acquainting himself with people like netanyahu, modi from india. obviously, this is a trump that deeply admires orban. so what does it tell you that someone like donald trump, who is now in

power, gets his inspiration from these type of foreign leaders? >> yeah, donald trump. is seeking. >> a country that. >> has elections, but people vote. >> on the basis of a biased media and a biased education system that is controlled. >> by him. >> and by his his structure, by trumpism. now, democracy is not just majority vote. obviously. >> putin would win every election. now you need. >> a free media, a completely free media. you need a free university system, a critical media, a critical university system, or else people are just going to learn about or be told about how great the leader is. so you can actually win elections if you cook the media to your benefit. >> and that's what we're. >> seeing here. we're seeing the hollowing out. of democratic institutions like the media, like universities to remove critics. and put in compliant,

supportive people. >> so people. >> had into voting with a completely biased framework. and that's what folks like orban have done. >> which you spend so much time thinking about history and complicated legacies. and all of that comes down to the type of information that americans consume. so i'm thinking of the fact that, you know, this donald trump administration is pushing out certain journalists while giving space to certain conservative voices and conservative media outlets. how do you think that impacts the information that americans are consuming? >> well. >> we're getting a lot of biased information and frankly, a lot of stupid information. and i would point out two things. you're not just trying to get the media to heel. you're trying to get the public to heel by way of this disinformation. and jason and my colleague tim snyder has this beautiful phrase called planned obeyance. in

other words, if you punish the media, if you take this big stick to intimidate the media, you're trying to get this anticipatory obedience out of the media where they do or report what you want them to report as opposed to the truth. and so this anticipatory, this anticipatory obedience is meant for the media, but it's also meant for the voting public that you must obey the narratives that the autocrat wants. you must obey the stories that they want. and so the best way to do that is to really allow the media. and by the way, air force one is not his private plane. that is literally public property. and so it's not a gift. it's not a favor for a media member to be able to mount that plane and interview our public leaders. and that's a concrete example of anticipatory

obedience, where you're taking away these perks in order to allow the media and the electorate. >> jason, brendan carr is another interesting figure in all of this. and you're seeing him use trump's ntd agenda. obviously, that's something that elon musk has been using day and night now as he's purging through all of these federal agencies. so now that people understand what the trump playbook is now, specifically when it comes to this anti die agenda, and what can media companies, agencies and entities do to protect themselves, knowing and anticipating know what's to come? >> well, i think we. >> absolutely have to deal, as ritch said, with the problem of anticipatory obedience. everybody has to do their jobs. and what that means is the media simply has to ignore their threats. the you you know, if you're going to go down, you're going to go down anyway. and there's nothing you can do. the

whole dei thing. first of all, it links with the white supremacist agenda, the white christian nationalist agenda. if it's whites who are really the ones who are oppressed, then dei is one big fake lie. secondly, it's a method to attack anyone you want because dei is a method. diversity, equity and inclusion is a method to make people feel included. everybody has those offices, so you can target everything. if you're targeting dei and we have to be. so we have to all of our institutions, universities, media, we just have to forge ahead in the face of these attacks and do not engage in anticipatory obedience because it never, ever works. if they're going to come for you, they're going to take you down anyway, and so may as well have history, have the history books put you in the column as a good person.

>> jason stanley and rich benjamin to critical voices in this conversation. thank you so much for joining me. and coming up next, the rule of law is being put to the test under the trump administration. will the nation's guardrails hold? and next hour, how elon musk, the richest man in the world, is reportedly getting even richer reportedly getting even richer with known for pursuing your passions. no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer. fda-approved for 18 types of cancer, including certain early-stage and advanced cancers. one of those cancers is early-stage non-small cell lung cancer. keytruda may be used with certain chemotherapies before surgery when you have early-stage lung cancer, which can be removed by surgery, and then continued alone after surgery to help prevent your lung cancer from coming back. keytruda can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. this may be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have cough,

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only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: liberty. ♪♪ did you take your vitamin today? that's my job. ♪♪ nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. >> danielle sassoon was the interim u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. up until a few days ago. she's a long time member of the right wing federalist society, and was even considered a rising star in conservative legal circles. years ago, she clerked for the late supreme court justice antonin scalia and after his death praised his legacy, calling him, quote, the real deal. in fact, this week she referenced none other than scalia as part of her decision making in a forthright letter to us attorney general pam bondi.

sassoon refused to carry out orders from acting deputy attorney general emil bové to drop the corruption charges against new york mayor eric adams, and offered her resignation from the role trump had appointed her to just three weeks earlier, writing that dismissing adams indictment would be, quote, inconsistent with my ability and duty to prosecute federal crimes without fear or favor and to advance good faith arguments before the courts. scalia, she wrote, instilled in me a sense of duty to contribute to the public good and uphold the rule of law. now, it's remarkable, right, that this woman, a conservative prosecutor, did this. and the thing is, she wasn't alone. a handful of other justice department officials within the public integrity unit also resigned on thursday. so as soon as this letter was an explicit and thorough refusal to go along with the trump justice department's deal with eric adams, which she called, quote, an improper offer of immigration enforcement assistance in exchange for a dismissal of his case. well, he denies a quid pro

quo. the actions of mayor eric adams speak louder than his words. after meeting with trump's border czar tom homan on thursday, adams said he'll allow ice agents to operate inside rikers island jail by issuing an executive order that serves as an apparent workaround to new york city's sanctuary laws. the trump administration's focus on making good with the highly unpopular adams is peculiar, to say the least, not only because there's little that trump actually wins from all of it, but it's pitting trump against top lawyers who in theory, he should be aligning with. think about it. we're seeing a conservative sound the alarm on this shady exchange of favors and deliver the pushback, while democrats, on the other hand, have done little to speak out or hold adams accountable. new york governor kathy hochul, for example, has the power to remove adams from office but has been openly hesitant about doing so. now, standing up for the rule of law should not be partizan, and it shouldn't be political. doing

the right thing shouldn't even be this hard, especially when you're dealing with a president who hates accountability. joining me now is danny cevallos, msnbc legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, someone that makes me smarter by the day. what what was your initial reaction to sort of strategy in all of this? >> in a way, i wasn't surprised, but we've never seen anything like this internal memo going back and forth between main justice and beauvais and danielle sassoon. and neither of them left. anything on the table. >> i mean. >> the basics are that sassoon believes that this was a quid pro quo. and by the way, emily beauvais himself acknowledged that. possibility because he denied it in. >> his original memo, demanding. >> or directing the dismissal of charges. against eric adams. so. >> yes. >> this is something i think. >> we've never. >> seen before. we've seen u.s. attorneys be fired. it's happened before 2006. george w

bush administration fired eight u.s. attorneys, and a later investigation concluded that it was not so much merit based and possibly more political based. so this kind of thing has happened before the. >> saturday night. >> massacre during. >> the. >> nixon era. this is not that. >> unusual. >> but the way this went down is very, very unusual, especially because. >> and you touched. >> on this, the fact. that the charges against adams will not be dismissed outright. they're dismissed without prejudice. now, that happens all the time. usually prosecutors don't circle back. but in this case, without prejudice with the idea that an incoming u.s. attorney will review it. and between the lines, it sure feels like they're going to check to see if adams has done his part to comply or help the administration with their immigration enforcement. that's why this memo, this dismissal, is properly criticized. >> also interesting what sassoon says no. in that letter, she also disclosed that her office was planning to charge adams with obstruction in addition to the bribery charges, saying that

they had evidence that he destroyed and instructed others to destroy evidence. i mean, what do you make of her doubling down in that moment? i mean, it sounds very serious. >> yeah. >> the fact. >> that they were going to get a superseding indictment against eric adams isn't that surprising. this was a wide ranging corruption investigation. and oftentimes, defendants, whether it's street crime or the mayor of new york city, you often see them engaging in self-help and trying to reach out to witnesses or maybe mess around with evidence. so it's not that unusual to get a superseding indictment for witness tampering or evidence tampering or something like that, and especially in one of these big corruption cases when the investigation is ongoing. not a surprise either. and they pointed out that the investigation of adams has been going on for quite a long time. the idea or the notion, at least, that eric adams was indicted because he spoke out against the biden administration's immigration policy. there are some facts that contradict that, that that really make that not as as plausible as at least the administration suggested the

current administration suggested. but i have to tell you, in terms of getting this rare insight into doj internal bickering is absolutely that is what is unprecedented, especially for a criminal defense attorney like me who was never in doj. to see this inner workings is something that is a documentary all unto itself. just 3 or 4 memos alone, so much in them, so much about doj and us attorney's office. >> what do you think the public integrity unit office is, is thinking about right now? for those that are still there, like what is what do you think is in their minds? >> so it's really interesting because i've had cases against the public integrity unit and they're good. they're very good at what they do. prosecuting corruption cases is very difficult because it's so rare that a quid pro quo is explicit. in other words, people don't write down, i will give you a bag of cash in exchange for some official act. it's usually done in a way that conceals the conduct. so they are very good at their jobs. and there is a big difference between the southern district or any of the districts and main justice, the

public integrity unit. they sometimes work together, but they are they maintain a degree of independence. and so for that reason, when you see u.s. attorneys or excuse me, ausa, resigning from both main justice and public integrity, and in the southern district, that tells you that there are a lot of people who feel very strongly about this in different places dc, new york, and across the d.o.j. spectrum. >> let me ask you this, danny, as a lawyer, as someone that cares deeply about the rule of law and democracy, what does it tell you that donald trump has a portrait of his mug shot inside of the oval office? >> i mean, it hasn't in my view, that has nothing to do, really, with respect for the law. it's donald trump trolling. he's been doing it for 8 or 9 years now, better part of a decade. this is his idea of a prank. he knows that it's going to get people really fired up, really upset. does he think that his mug shot was serious? no. and most of his followers don't either. and by the way, if i'm being candid, cases like the new york criminal

case against him, i criticize that all along the way. there are some aspects of the prosecutions of donald trump that i think are worthy of criticism. and i think that donald trump knows that his followers don't believe any of the prosecutions against him were worth a darn. so i think when he puts up a photo like that, it's not so much it's not so much trolling on the rule of law. it's trolling on all the people he perceives as against him, whether that be the biden administration, us here at msnbc, whatever it is he's trying to troll, he knows it's going to get attention and attention he has gotten. >> danny, thank you so much for joining me. next, there's one specific group that's cheering on donald trump's deportation plans because they stand to make bank despite the cruelty. >> we're standing. >> up for our right to be lazy. we work hard. >> we deserve to scroll hard. it's the lazy boy president's (vo) is your asthma rescue a dinosaur? it's the lazy boy president's day sale. find the lazy s

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money from contracts with ice to surveil migrants and transport them within and out of the united states. core civic's ceo damon henninger recently described this as one of the most exciting periods in his career, and added that he expects to see significant growth in the company and geo group founder george zoley, who oversees the other large private prison firm, said back in november that the company was created for this unique moment in history. we've already seen that the private prison industry actually thrives under a trump administration. the first time around, both core civic and the geo group saw their profits soar, with rising stocks and multimillion dollar government contracts for their detention facilities. and while former president biden promised to end the use of private prisons and signed an executive order in 2021 to stop the department of justice from renewing contracts with them. they're used by ice. still continued. in fact, it grew. as of july 2023, some 90%

of people detained in ice custody were held in facilities owned or operated by private prison companies. that was up from 79% in 2021. and now, under trump and his anti-immigrant policies, these numbers are only expected to rise. on day one, the president reversed that biden era executive order to stop the doj from signing contracts with private prisons. then, the recently enacted lincoln riley act makes it easier to detain migrants accused, not yet convicted, but accused with even minor crimes. and as msnbc opinion editor hayes brown notes, the rising pressure to get deportation numbers up will likely result in increasingly sloppy and inhumane measures. now, inhumane is a key word here, because what happens inside of these prisons the abuse, the negligence and forced labor practices at private detention facilities are all well documented. we've even seen cases of death. in 2023, 42 year

old ernesto guerra died from a heart attack under ice custody in louisiana at a facility run by the geo group. he had submitted dozens of grievances alleging that he was refused medical care, denied access to his personal detention records, and was subject to mistreatment by guards all throughout his campaign. donald trump ran on a promise of getting so-called criminals off the streets. but as nbc news has reported, nearly half of immigrants detained during a single day in january didn't even have criminal records. and the migrants recently sent to guantanamo bay. while trump and his allies will have you believe that they're the worst of the worst. cbs has new reporting that some of the migrants being sent there are actually nonviolent and low risk. so who gains from all of this? well, because it's not about making you safer. it's about pushing this dystopian narrative that makes them richer. the trump administration is gaslighting you, the american public. all the while, private

prison companies are taking in those new million dollar contracts on whose back? the back of immigrants. now, a new hour of ayman begins right after this break. >> i feel like new sunglasses, like a brand new pair of jeans. i feel like taking chances. i i feel like taking chances. i feel like. a brand new. girl. ♪♪ chocolate fundraiser. with the chase mobile app, things move a little more smoothly. ♪♪ deposit checks easily and send money quickly. ♪♪ that's convenience from chase. with fatigue and light-headedness, i knew something was wrong. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib,

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