holds back. >> we need to have a. >> conversation with the american people. >> what happened? we got lazy. and i put this, you know, 20 years ago, people said, oh, demographics are destiny for the democrats. and we became intellectually flat. >> spell that out for a second. and people assuming, like african americans are going to vote for democrats, latinos will vote for democrats. >> we're going to become right. yeah, we will become a majority minority party, a country. it will take care of itself. totally. it led to intellectual ignorance, and we lost both a strategic sense of the public and a sense of having a real conversation with them, and the policy work that is required over the time. >> my conversations with rahm emanuel and don lemon will go live tomorrow morning wherever you get your podcasts. that does it for me today, but stay right where you are because there's

much more news coming up on msnbc. >> good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. >> welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we begin this hour with some new reporting about fresh firings by the trump administration. more than two dozen immigration judges, managers and new hires have been let go by the department of justice. and it comes amid a case backlog and a crackdown by president trump. >> you have to start cutting some of the fat. and unfortunately, the number one expense we have in the united states government right now is payroll. and when you start cutting departments, some people's jobs are lost and that it hurts us because we don't want anybody to lose their job. but at the same time, we have to get it under control. >> so they're looking for that money anywhere they can find it, whether it's on the backs of rural america, whether it's on the backs of veterans. whether

it is on the backs of cancer research. >> also, new cbs news reporting thousands of probationary workers at the department of health and human services received virtually identical dismissal letters late saturday. we're going to read you part of that letter in just a moment. also new today, secretary of state marco rubio in israel meeting with prime minister benjamin netanyahu. they talked iran and president trump's gaza plan. >> the president's. >> also been very bold about his view of what the future for gaza should be. not the same tired ideas of the past, but something that's bold and something that, frankly, took courage and vision in order to outline behind everything that threatens peace and stability for the millions of people who call this region home. is iran. >> rubio is among several u.s. leaders heading to saudi arabia to initiate negotiations toward peace between russia and ukraine. an aide close to president zelenskyy says ukraine has still not been invited.

>> i will never accept any decisions between the. >> united states and. >> russia about ukraine. never in our people. never in our adults and children and everybody. it can't be so. this is the war in ukraine against us, and it's our human losses. >> this is going. >> to be under president trump's leadership that we get this war to an. >> end. >> and it's going to be horrific for the ukrainian people. putin will not only seize more territory, he will take revenge. >> meantime, president trump is in daytona beach for an appearance at the daytona 500. he is going to do a lap in the presidential limousine known as the beast. we've got reporters and analysts in place ready to go over all these new and developing storylines for you. we're going to go first to nbc's yamiche alcindor, who is in washington, of course. yamiche, so the mass firings of government workers that has continued into this weekend, as you're well aware. how are these terminations being carried out? >> well, alex, it's a key

question. what we're seeing is that these massive layoffs are really touching all parts of the federal government. we now know through reporting that a number of immigration judges have been terminated by the trump administration. a union official telling nbc news that it makes no sense because president trump has a priority of deporting people who are here in this country illegally. so, so terminating immigration judges makes that work harder, the union says. we also are learning that multiple agencies within the department of health and human services, a number of their probationary employees or employees that have been with the federal government for a year or two, they've now received a letter that looks very similar across those agencies. i want to read to you part of that letter. it says, unfortunately, the agency finds that you are not fit for continued employment because your ability, knowledge and skills do not fit the agency's current needs and your performance has not been adequate to justify further employment at the agency. so what we're seeing here is the trump administration and of course, doj's that department of government agency that's being headed by elon musk. they're

really trying their best to cut costs here. and in doing so they're trying to trim down the federal government. of course this is being led. this is being met by a number of criticisms. first is of course, the legal challenges that are playing out in court. but also democrats have been very vocal. so here's hakeem jeffries, who is, of course, the leader of the house democrats. take a listen. >> they've broken their promise. they have no. >> interest in. >> improving the quality of life of hard working american taxpayers. instead, what they're trying to do while they distract the american people is to jam the gop tax scam down the throats of people all across this country, all in service of massive tax cuts for their billionaire donors and wealthy corporations. it's a toxic bait and switch that is underway, and we will continue to push back forcefully. >> so of course, that was hakeem jeffries and a number of other democrats and critics of these moves by president trump. and elon musk are calling it unconstitutional. there's also

this idea that they're really pushing back and saying, cutting down the federal government when it comes to employees, isn't going to get them near the $2 trillion that elon musk and the president trump say they want to cut. but that being said, they are still going at lightning speed trying to fire and terminate as many people as they can. alex. >> okay, yamiche, it is a busy weekend on that front, so we're going to see you again next hour for more updates. thanks. let's go overseas now. and breaking news this hour with secretary of state marco rubio, alongside israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, today doubling down on president trump's plan for gaza. >> something that, frankly took courage and vision in order to outline. and it may have shocked and surprised many. but what cannot continue is the same cycle where we repeat over and over again and wind up in the exact same place. >> joining me now with nbc's dan deloose. always good to see you, dan. so we have a number of issues to get to. but first, what we heard from both rubio and netanyahu there, when donald trump originally said it, it

didn't necessarily feel real. right. is this still a negotiating stance or is it a real proposal? and if so, how problematic is that diplomatically? >> well, it's hugely. >> problematic. >> and. >> it still remains to be seen. >> if. >> this is a coherent, specific plan. it came out of nowhere. >> there was no evidence. >> that there was some master plan ready. >> to go. >> proposing the quote unquote, takeover of gaza by the united states. so it still at this point, the us stance is confused and arab allies who we rely on heavily on so many fronts, including for counterterrorism, are confused and very upset. so the questions are, how would the us takeover of gaza? not clear. would it involve u.s. troops? maybe. maybe not, depending on what the president says, depending on the day. right. and of course, what would the

palestinians have to say about this? there's a kind of a colonial imperial aspect to this that somehow the us will decide the fate of an entire nation without including them or the countries that try to help them. and of course, the whole master plan, allegedly before inauguration was that the us would push for, under trump and normalization of relations between saudi arabia and israel, something the biden administration tried to do. and it dates back to trump's first term. right? well, saudi arabia is not not at all pleased with this talk about taking over gaza. and so there's a threat here, a risk that that whole possibility unravels and is lost. and of course, you possibly now have given a lot of ammunition to the most militant, extreme voices in the middle east and in gaza itself. when you have the us president saying the us is going to not only take over gaza, but the palestinians who live there won't be able to return to their homes. so you

can imagine this is not a recipe for harmony or for peace deals. >> i mean, it's like the president took off his hat as president and was relegated to being, you know, his former hat as a real estate magnate and wanting to, in his words, develop the area into being the riviera of the middle east. there's a lot of problems with that. but i have another question to ask you. and that would be after israel, rubio heads to saudi arabia, to your point, is going to meet with russian officials for ukraine peace talks. so far, though, no ukraine invites. so will that invite come to join the talks? and if it doesn't, how substantive can talks even be without ukraine at the table? >> there is no invitation at this point to ukraine, and that's according directly from president zelensky and his top aide, as nbc has reported. you saw in that interview that kristen welker from meet the press had that great interview with president zelensky where he says he will not accept a peace deal if ukraine is not included at the table. it's a pretty reasonable stance, given the

loss of life and the tremendous bloodshed and destruction there. so you have the possibility of u.s. officials sitting down with russian officials trying to negotiate the end of a war without ukraine at the table. and that's a through line here. we're talking about gaza also. right? it's a through line where the trump administration is kind of trying to dictate unilateral, unilateral solutions without including the parties who are affected. and by the way, they haven't also included the european governments. and this is very much in their backyard. they are very worried about what's going on in ukraine. they have also been sending a huge amount of military assistance to ukraine, more than the u.s. has, which the white house doesn't always acknowledge. so this is hugely problematic. and i think the great fear that people have across europe and in ukraine and even beyond, is that the u.s. may end up playing into the hands of russian president vladimir putin and the leader of an authoritarian regime, and

that a democratic country, ukraine, will be sold out by this deal. so there's a huge risk here with massive consequences, not just for ukraine, but the whole world. >> yeah, that's the meeting being called by emmanuel macron tomorrow with european leaders to discuss this. as i get to my last question, just to let everyone know we're seeing president trump there, he's arrived in daytona beach. he will be driving. i don't know that he'll be behind the wheel, but he will be in the beast. of course, the presidential limousine. he's going to take a lap at the daytona 500. but getting to the question, dan, it's about your latest article headline. adam's case and other trump moves threaten to open corruption floodgates, experts say. here's senator amy klobuchar today. >> this is just another. >> day in the. >> trump administration. >> costs are up. chaos is up. and yes, corruption is up. they have literally taken the mayor of new york city who was facing and is facing serious charges of bribery, which were going to be

expanded, and they have turned him into their own political pawn. >> i need a quick answer on what you may have heard from experts about these corruption floodgates. and if anyone can stop them. >> well, of course, congress and voters have do have power and can can take actions when it comes to these things. but for the moment, the trump administration has scrapped or watered down a whole number of anti-corruption efforts, either in the way they interpret existing laws or in getting rid of the checks and balances inside the government, such as inspectors general, the office of ethics, that are supposed to prevent massive conflicts of interest. and just as one example, they're not going to prosecute a whole kind of category of foreign secret foreign lobbying, where foreign countries try to inject propaganda and or influence politics here in the states, they're going to have a much stricter definition of how they enforce that lobbying law. that, by the way, dates back to 1938,

when congress was worried about nazi agents secretly lobbying for the nazi cause here before the war. so they are getting rid of laws that were imposed, were introduced after watergate to try to reform and prevent corruption. so there is a huge risk here. >> yeah, for sure. i always love getting to your reporting and have you on to talk about it. thank you dan. more now on the adams case. the justice department officially moving to toss the new york city mayor's corruption case after a slew of prosecutors resigned in protest. now, the case will go before federal judge dale ho, who will have the final say on whether the case can be dropped. joining me now is chris greenberg, former s.d.n.y criminal division deputy chief, former federal prosecutor and now an msnbc legal analyst. christie, good to see you as always. so we've seen a wave of resignations from federal prosecutors who just flat out refused to sign off on the filing to dismiss adams charges. nbc is reporting that edward sullivan, a senior

litigation counsel, decided to sign it to protect his colleagues. what do we know about the meeting with acting deputy attorney general emil bove that led to that decision? >> so based. >> on public reporting, he did not threaten to fire these public integrity prosecutors. >> but the. >> threat really is implicit, because when the eric adams prosecutors in s.d.n.y said that they would not file that motion, motion to dismiss, he placed them on leave and he said he was going to investigate them. so even if you don't say the threat outright, you're going to be fired unless somebody steps up to do this. it's pretty clear that that was the case. and so it seems as though this one prosecutor from that unit, ed sullivan, was the sacrificial lamb. the one thing i will say is this whole procedure of meeting with a bunch of prosecutors and telling them somebody needs to sign to dismiss a case is completely wrong. anytime when i was a line prosecutor, someone would

transfer me a new case. it was my responsibility to review the file, review what had happened, what the memos were, and then recommend to my supervisors the next steps forward. it was never a top down directive. you need to do x. that's not that's not what our oath is. that's not how we are supposed to behave as prosecutors. so i'm i'm surprised they found anybody who was willing to sign off on this, even if it was to protect others from firing. >> and then will there be a hearing over filing to end this case? and if so, how then does the doj defend this move in court? >> well. >> there should be a hearing. judge ho should look at what has happened. he has seen these memos, presumably. and when you have that many career prosecutors resigning rather than sign off, that is a signal to the judge that you need to have a hearing and you need to ask some really tough questions, specifically of amol bovi,

because amol is the one who is very clear in the motion to dismiss that these were his judgment calls. so you need to ask him a lot of tough questions. and in particular, there is one factual dispute that it seems to me the judge really needs to get to the bottom of. you have danielle sassoon, who is the former u.s. attorney who resigned because she said that there was an improper quid pro quo that was being offered from adams attorneys that they would only that adams would only help with immigration enforcement if the charges against him were dismissed. she said that that was made plain to her in communications, and it was made plain to her in a meeting with amil bovey, now bovey and adams. attorneys denied this. >> so to that point, hang on a second. let's all take a listen to trump's border czar, tom homan on cnn earlier this morning. it's relative to this. take a listen. >> it sounds. >> like the doj dropped the case against adams. and in exchange, he let you into rikers. is that

what happened? >> no, i think that's ridiculous. meaning mayor adams met a couple months ago, i think. i think it was probably eight, nine, eight, nine weeks ago. we met and we had the same discussion, and we talked about getting a presence in rikers island. we talked about how we can collaborate on public safety threats and finding the missing children that were that can't be found after they released their sponsors. and we had that a couple months ago. >> so there's all these different denials or assertions of quid pro quo, and it's related to immigration and all these inquiries. right. despite danielle sassoon alleging one in her resignation letter. what are your overall thoughts on this big picture? >> well, in response to what was just said that he was having conversations with mayor adams over the past few weeks, that is in conjunction with these conversations that were happening with the department of justice about dropping his case and mayor adams making a request through his attorneys to have a pardon. so these conversations

with the borders are not happening in isolation. and as donald trump would say, this is the art of the deal, right? they didn't just pardon eric adams, which is what they could have done and dropped the case entirely. they didn't just say, we want to dismiss the case outright. what they said is we want to dismiss the case without prejudice, which means we can bring this case back. we can bring these charges back. now, why would you do that? if you really thought that there were actions that were taken that threatened the integrity of the proceedings, you would just drop the case. but that's not what they did because they wanted leverage over him to make him donald trump, the trump's puppet. there is no other explanation for why you would dismiss and allow the case to come back later. >> even though they will deny it. but to your point, christi greenburg, always good to have you. thank you much. we're going to talk more about this, plus the latest trump social media post that you cannot ignore. and that is ahead with my political panel later this hour. but first, it feels indiscriminate, reckless, even the dodge rampage

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cuts are unfortunate but necessary. >> so anytime you take over a situation like elon musk has had many opportunities and many experiences with taking over businesses, you have to start cutting some of the fat. and unfortunately, the number one expense we have in the united states government right now is payroll. and when you start cutting departments, some people's jobs are lost. and that hurts us because we don't want anybody to lose their job. but at the same time, we have to get it under control. >> well, joining me now is new york times reporter and msnbc contributor teddy schleifer. hey, teddy. welcome. americans are soon going to feel the real world. real world rather impacts of these firings. do musk and doge have a master plan on how to go about cutting agencies? or is doge simply using some kind of a wrecking ball to dismantle any or all facets of the federal government? >> i think a lot of this. >> is driven by what. >> elon musk sees on twitter. you know, yes, there is a master plan to some extent. i think

elon musk is has surrounded himself with policy experts, spent a lot of time during the transition talking with, you know, people who know about the budget and people like russ vought, the omb director, people like stephen miller, the deputy policy director or deputy chief of staff, and the white house. but, you know, elon is in a lot of ways driven by the types of things he sees on his platform, and he's driven by his group chats with his friends, he's driven by things he thinks are funny at times. and largely, elon is executing, at least tactically, what he's doing on a day to day. in part based on kind of the stimuli that he sees on twitter. >> i'm going to let that sit in for a second. trump and musk are citing corruption, waste, fraud as justification for getting further gutting the federal bureaucracy. you got nine of the government agencies that musk has targeted. they were mentioned in project 2025, and that includes the department of education, agriculture, health and human services. will the end

justify musk's means? i mean, will he get rid of waste and save taxpayer money? is there reason to believe that his motives aren't purely personal or just ideological? >> you know, i don't i don't i'm not somebody who personally thinks, based on my reporting, that elon is doing anything personally or driven primarily personally by, you know, a desire to cut back on investigations into himself or to, you know, defang regulations that could hurt his companies. but it is true that will happen along the way, right? i mean, you know, i think the reason that we've done so much reporting on these conflicts of interests is not to say that elon musk is motivated by these things, but it is, you know, a conflict that is not really being managed. you know, the management has been basically trump saying that he won't let elon, you know, do anything that he doesn't think he will do, he shouldn't do. elon has suggested at times he'll sort of do this policing himself. you know, i think generally elon musk is genuinely motivated by a desire

to cut back on waste, fraud and abuse. i think he believes everything he's doing is waste, fraud and abuse. but that phrase has become sort of a catch all to mean a lot of things. you know, that could mean cutting the department of education because you believe the department of education shouldn't be so empowered at the federal level. but is that waste, fraud and abuse, or is that just kind of for, you know, a smaller federal government? waste, fraud and abuse sounds bad, right? and it sounds like something that is very packageable and marketable to a general public. in fact, in some ways that just like, you know, cutting back on the department of education sounds bad. you know, like people like the department of education. but waste, fraud and abuse has become this, this phrase which has sort of lost lots of meaning unless you go into the details there, which elon has not really been willing to do, at least publicly. >> yeah. so critics have warned that this rather unprecedented partnership between the world's most powerful man and richest man is a threat to democracy. and they also predict that this bromance between these two gigantic egos will not last

long. in a joint interview this week, trump and musk blamed the media for trying to drive a wedge between them. do you have a sense of their relationship? >> it's good. you know, yes, it is true that, you know, as you're showing on the screen right now, you know, trump is threatened to some extent, i'll say, by just sort of elon's celebrity. i don't mean i don't mean that because he's actively saying that. i just think it's objectively true that, you know, elon musk has the celebrity in a way that, you know, your standard white house aide does not. that's just true. you know, the relationship is good. i mean, they talk a lot personally. elon has a very good relationship, i think, which is helping him with aids. he is well liked by the trump staff in a way that might surprise people. yes. that's not to say that that's true right now. who knows what will be true in a couple of months? who knows what will be true when elon starts doing things that you know, trump finds politically unpalatable, like, say, going after social security or going after kind of trump priorities. but for now, i think the relationship is pretty good. and

that's helping elon stay in trump's good graces. >> and they've been friends for how long? >> i don't know if they've ever really been friends, frankly. i mean, i mean, they have known each other really since a dinner that elon and trump went to about actually about a year ago. now, february or march of 2024 is when the modern incarnation of this relationship started. but to your point, like there's not, you know, they have not been calling each other when, you know, sibling died and, you know, offering condolences. they have not gone to college together or anything like that. this is a new relationship. it's really a transactional relationship. it's working out for now, but there's not this kind of bank of goodwill that they're drawing upon. >> got it. teddy schleifer, we'll see you again. thank you so much. new pictures that show so much. new pictures that show why this was a good weekend t our floors don't stay clean very long. that's why i love my swiffer wet. i pop on a pad and get a mop-like clean floor in just one swipe. wow! and for hair, try swiffer dry cloths.

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darling. >> breaking news. some deadly and destructive storms are on

the move across the us. at least nine people died in georgia and kentucky, and right now heavy rains are flooding areas across the south. nearly half a million customers are without power. and while people in the northeast are dealing with a new round of winter weather, they're also bracing for the biggest snowfall of the season to come this week. nbc's george solace is in florence, mississippi for us. so, george, what are you seeing so far there? >> yeah, alex, it's really. >> just been unrelenting. >> here in florence. >> appears to be some heavy winds from that. storm system that moved overnight. you can see in this home, particularly a tree that toppled over, really just doing some damage to that roof. now the homeowners are okay. you can see they put a tarp over that roof. but here, what we're starting to see and learn from officials in kentucky. again, you heard from governor andy beshear a little earlier this afternoon. at least eight people have died in some of those floods. and the governor saying he believes that was related to people trying to escape some of the flooding that took over there. and they're also getting hit with a12 punch. you didn't just have the rain,

you also have some of that snow event at some parts of the state. and unfortunately, the governor does believe that that death toll may climb. and you mentioned there at the top you also had a death in georgia. now, again, some of this more severe rain is set to move away here in the next couple of hours. so that is the good news. but we are starting to prepare for some arctic air and more winter weather that's going to be moving across the country a little later into this week. so again, really just is insult to injury at this point. so again, at this point we're also learning and hearing of a levee that potentially broke in tennessee. so you have some water rescues that are happening there as we speak right now. some of the images that i'm starting to see online at least starting to percolate. and again, the story right now seems to be that death toll in kentucky again, eight lives we heard from the governor. here's a little bit more about what he said as to what's happening there on the ground right now. >> avoid driving. >> through covered roadways. that's where we're losing the most. people stay off the roads. if you hit water, turn around. it's not worth dying. your family cares about you. wherever you are going. it can wait. you

can. >> tell them. >> i said so. even six inches of water can be dangerous. we keep saying, turn around, don't drown. >> alex. of course, it's a very avoidable tragedy, which is why you hear that warning so often. and again here, the story in mississippi. luckily, those tornado warnings really haven't heard of any reports of any tornadoes here, but you can see that there are still some cleanup here to do. alex. >> yeah, quite a bit of it. okay, george, thank you for that. bracing for impact. what the dodge layoffs could mean for the economy. and who will pay the economy. and who will pay the political (people shouting guesses) with plaque psoriasis even the thought of an itchy situation can throw you off your game. (scratching sound) (scratching sound) (dog whimpers) otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. (people shouting guesses) otezla can help you get clearer skin, and reduce itching and flaking. (people shouting guesses) doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade.

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granger for the ones who get it done. >> new reaction today after president trump posted on x. he who saves his country does not violate any law. that was also shared by the white house official account. democrats warning there will be consequences if the trump administration does not follow court orders. >> ultimately, when the final court order. >> is made, the trump administration is going to have to decide. >> and this isn't just. at the top. these are lower level people as well. are they going to face contempt charges in the past, in the. >> last. >> administration, they did follow the court orders. but if they don't, the court has. inherent powers to find. >> them in. >> contempt, which. >> of course could mean going. >> to jail. >> with me now, julian castro, former secretary of housing and urban development, along with republican strategist susan del

percio and former republican congressman david jolly, all msnbc political analyst. welcome to you all. julian, i'll start with you. he posted the same thing to truth social and then pinned it to his profile. what was your reaction to that post? >> i mean, alex, the grandiloquence of that, the way that he states that he referring to himself basically is either the language of old english or the language of the bible, or the language of a king. i mean, this is really a window into how trump thinks of himself and what he wants to be. he is an authoritarian. his administration is acting in an authoritarian manner, basically daring the courts or anybody else to stop them. it gives us another peek into, i think, what's coming. it's hard to believe that we're still less than a month or about a month after his inauguration, and already he's creating this kind of chaos. he's doing a lot of damage to the federal government and damage to the public and

private sector. when you're that chaotic with the public sector. so it's bad news all around. >> he doesn't. susan post on x as frequently. he prefers truth social which owns. what message does it send that he wanted this specifically to be widely seen? >> part of. >> what donald trump does just in general is he likes to troll the american public and the media and just. >> get. >> the biggest reaction he can. however, this statement in itself is extremely significant. he believes he can act with complete immunity, which the supreme court has said he can. i was going to say, and that means. for everything he doesn't nuance, whether it's action as a president or not. when senator. >> klobuchar said he's going to be. >> held accountable to the courts or the. >> people that work for him.

>> first of. >> all, trump can pardon anyone who does the work he wants. >> even if it's done. deemed. >> illegal or people are held in contempt by the courts. my biggest. >> question. >> and it's been my fear all along. you've heard me say this, alex, a million times. it's not just the lower courts. it is the court. what happens when the supreme court, which we know is six three? it's a conservative court. and even if you want to say roberts can go sometimes, either way, it's still a54 court conservative. what happens when he sees to ignore them? >> yes. >> and that, i think, is the ultimate question. i'm willing to see it play through the courts because that's how donald trump works. he hasn't shown that ability. and to the secretary's point, should he ignore supreme court order, i think that will have the private sector and the business community all up in arms, and we will see a direct correlation between that and the stock

market. so it will be hard to see just how far he. yeah, we'll have to see how far he takes it. >> you're echoing a question i've been asking all week with my team and friends. and just what happens if he runs roughshod over what the supreme court says he has to do? and he says, yeah, i'm not going to do that. so anyway, let's hope that doesn't happen anyway. david. elon musk and vice president jd vance. they have posted similar sentiments recently on what they see as the president's power over the courts. and one op ed argues vance, who graduated from law school, is being deliberate writing, quote, when the only test for whether a ruling is valid is the president's interpretation, any unfavorable ruling suddenly becomes invalid. vance knows that this behavior would be the downfall of our republic. he just might not care. okay, well, what about republicans in congress? david? are they happy to let trump just take their authority? >> that's why we're in a crisis, alex. >> we are in a crisis. >> it's a. >> constitutional crisis. >> we shouldn't be tepid. >> about calling it that. >> you have. >> the white house, the

administration. >> the vice. >> president who are saying. >> we are going to. >> interpret the law, something that is constitutionally vested in the courts and the courts. while senator klobuchar is right, there are certain authorities that really have a very elusive way of trying to enforce the law enforcement of the law federally would come down to pam bondi and the department of justice through a solicitor general, and we know how pam bondi and donald trump will handle enforcing the law against the president himself. and so what does the constitution provide? it provides the congress the ability of oversight and ultimately, impeachment. if a president is lawless, which he is, if a president is corrupt, which they are. ultimately, the quickest remedy is congress. and if democrats control congress right now, elon musk would be sitting at a hearing table. if democrats controlled congress, they would be holding oversight hearings into donald trump's lawlessness. it is the failure of republicans that have allowed this crisis to really emerge. we've seen lawless presidents before, but there has been accountability, either through the courts or through the

congress. this republican congress has laid down. we are in a crisis, and we shouldn't be shy about calling it that. >> julian, i want to switch gears a bit and talk with you about the 46 house democrats who sent that letter to president trump warning him that his tariffs on china and mexico could drive up housing prices, worsening that crisis. you served as housing secretary. what are the impacts here? >> well, the impacts go up and down the line. i mean, this goes also with the announcement that they're looking at cutting 30, 40, 50% of the staff at hud. the board almost across the board. you know it. this affects the livelihoods of real estate agents, of hardware stores, of landscapers, of small business owners throughout the country. and we already have an affordable housing crisis in this country. lower income people, middle income people can't afford to own a home in a

lot of places or can't afford to rent a home even. this is going to turn an affordable housing crisis into an affordable housing disaster. >> okay. sobering thought there. what about the washington post, susan, which reports on the widespread effect of trump's mass firings and the way they're being felt across the country from mental health care for veterans? electricity, let's say, in small towns, housing, as we were just discussing and more, a number of staff at the national institute of health, they're being let go, including doctors and nurses. trump claims he is making the federal government more efficient. but how many people can we really afford to lose? and what does that do to his job market? >> great question alex. i think at the end of the day, right now they're doing these layoffs. it comes to economics that they can show to the american public. this is what i've done. and don't underestimate the value of donald trump, even if it has dire consequences for him being

able to say he reduced the federal workforce. that resonates. that being said, when we hear about the letter from the congress members or we see that these policies are hurting people. the elected officials in washington have to stop protesting in washington. they have to go back to their districts. they have to show the consequences, show the school that is in operating the preschool, and how that affects parents who now have to watch their children and can't afford, you know, because then they can't get a job or they they can't work full time. show the hospitals that are closing. go to the veteran facilities. they have to make it real because otherwise donald trump for right now owns that narrative. because people we know that we need to cut a lot of money to, to keep our budget moving in balance. but when they hear about a $10 million fine, that's a lot of money to people. and that works on the pr argument. donald trump's problem is long term. he

can't get rid of the fact and reality. >> let me ask you, david, immigration judges that have been fired by the justice department, that happened friday. this is despite this record case backlog of millions of cases. estimates are three and a half to 4 million cases are in the pipeline. and of course, trump pledging to speed up deportations for each campaign promise that trump makes. are his actions doing just the opposite? i mean, if you don't have the judges to adjudicate three and a half to 4 million cases, how's that going to work unless you're planning just to again, for the phrase we used earlier, run roughshod over the legality of it all and say, just get on a plane. you're leaving? >> sure. >> no. that's right. and this is also an area of lawlessness where, as the law is interpreted, if donald trump doesn't like it, he moves to intervene. and so in some very small situations with administrative or magistrate judges, the president has certain authority. but ultimately, i think through all this chaos, through the through the hypocrisy, be it on

immigration or the price of eggs or you name it, people ultimately will be taking the measure of donald trump. are they better off under trump or not? and if prices are up and real wages are down, and access to affordable housing and health care are down, and if people feel like they are not getting their due out of government while the billionaires are, donald trump's going to be in a lot of trouble. and i think that ultimately will be one of the emerging themes of the of the midterms. is it the constitutional crisis? is it chaos, or is it the fact that the billionaire class under donald trump is getting ahead and i'm getting left behind? and sure, it might. it might feel good that you're cutting the federal workforce. but if that means that there are less services for me while you're getting yours, all of a sudden i'm not better off under donald trump. and i think that ultimately is going to be one of the themes of the next two years. >> and in terms of being better off. julian, last question to you. and that is donald trump on the campaign trail. i'm going to bring down prices. well, we know eggs aren't going down. that's one thing. but how long does he have until people start reacting to it and saying, you promised

this and you haven't delivered. and by the way, i think we might have a picture of donald trump right now. everybody, he's getting into the beast. we're told. there it is. of course, that's the armored vehicle that the president will always travel in any president, and he's going to take a lap around daytona 500 speedway there. anyway. go ahead and answer the question. sorry to interrupt with that. >> but i mean, look, it's i think, as everybody knows, it's true that presidents have a certain time. that's a so-called honeymoon period. i think that's less true. that's been less true with trump than with others. we can already see that in his relatively low polling for a new president. but i think especially this time, what's going to hurt him is that he's been there before. so people expect him to be more up to speed. i think they're going to hold him accountable more quickly. and then secondly, as david alluded to, i mean, hanging out with elon musk, putting him in charge of all of this cutting and so forth, he's really bringing up the idea that the billionaire class and the fact that the billionaire class is running things, i think that is going to seep in to the american consciousness and hurt him pretty quickly as we go along if prices stay high. but

here's the thing, alex, just really quickly, he's not going to be on the ballot again. it's those other republicans, those senators that are in swing states, those those folks that want to run for president in 28, the congressional midterm candidates, they're the ones that are going to bear the political burden of his folly. >> point well taken. they're all of them, in fact, from all three of you, julian and susan and david. thanks, guys. as again, we're taking a look. i'm curious to see if he goes speeding around. if they, like, break the speed limit or if they just cruise and take a lot of time doing it. i'll let you know what we find out in the control booth. meantime, it wasn't just about gaza. the other topic on the table. when secretary marco rubio arrived in israel. >> people who? >> and doug. >> you'll be back. >> emus can't help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. >> you're just a. >> flightless bird. you know

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the u.s. stands side by side with israel when it comes to iran. and this conflicts a little bit with what we heard from president trump just a few days ago, who essentially was backing away from the idea of a military confrontation with tehran, saying that he would come up with a bold new nuclear containment plan for iran's nuclear program, even though, of course, it's his administration that that pulled out of the jcpoa, which is the nuclear program, an agreement that the obama administration signed with the eu and other states. this is what both men said at a news conference in jerusalem a little bit earlier. listen. >> the common theme in all of these challenges is iran. it is the single greatest source of instability in the region. behind every terrorist group, behind every act of violence, behind every destabilizing

activity, behind everything that threatens peace and stability for the millions of people who call this region home is iran. and by iran, i mean the ayatollahs. by iran, i mean its regime, a regime who, by the way, its people don't support. the people of iran are victims of that regime. >> well, this must have been music to the ears of benjamin netanyahu. alex. and importantly, especially for the civilian population of gaza. israel is announcing that it is sending a team to cairo tomorrow to continue negotiations on phase one of the cease fire agreement between israel and hamas, with the prime minister's office discussing the implementation of phase two, and that hopefully will be discussed in the egyptian capital as well. alex. >> okay, paula, we'll see you again. thank you much. a rare sight in new york city. we're sight in new york city. we're going -honey... -but the gains are pumping! dad, is mommy a "finance bro?"

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