(800) 990-5365. call now. >> on this new hour of vice president jd vance shocks the world. the backlash he's facing for embracing germany's far right. plus, it's black history month. but you wouldn't know it by logging on to google. and two trans high school students stand up against donald trump's ban on trans girls in girls sports. i'm paola ramos in for ayman mohyeldin. let's do this. during

his first international trip overseas as vice president, jd vance has shown an inability or perhaps an unwillingness to acknowledge that horrors, left unchecked are often doomed to repeat themselves. the vice president and second lady, mr. vance, visited the longest operating concentration camp in nazi germany. walking throughout the grounds where tens of thousands of jews were murdered and placing a wreath at the site. you can see it right there. here's what he said after that tour. >> i've read. >> a lot. >> about the holocaust. in books. >> but being. >> here and seeing. >> it up close and personal really drives home what what? unspeakable evil commit was committed. >> and why we should be. >> committed to ensuring that it never happens again. >> ensuring it never happens again. unspeakable evils. and that's important, right? that he said those words. but the thing is that it didn't take vance that long to understand that those words he said back then

actually didn't mean anything, because this is what he had to say to european leaders the very next day in munich. >> i believe that dismissing people. dismissing their concerns or worse yet. >> shutting down. media or shutting down. >> elections or shutting people out of the political process protects nothing. >> in fact. >> it is the most surefire way to destroy democracy. there is no. room for firewalls. >> you either uphold. >> the principle or you don't. >> so that speech shocked hundreds of attendees. vance didn't mention the alternative for germany party by name, but the same day he met with the group's leader, mainstream german politicians have a long standing agreement to freeze out the far right group, an approach that vance criticized in his speech. for decades, germany has had mechanisms to shut out extremist political parties and to ban hate speech to prevent

the rise of another hitler. it makes sense. but in the case of the afd, it has at times downplayed the atrocities of the holocaust under hitler. parts of the party have been classified as extremists by german intelligence, and members have been arrested in connection with multiple plots to overthrow the government. but that party has gained traction with german voters. it's second in the polls, just a week out from the parliamentary election. so to have the vice president of the united states all but endorsing that far right group on an international stage was a striking overstep that challenged longtime precedent. so here's how german chancellor olaf scholz put it. >> we really reject. >> any idea. of cooperation between parties. >> other parties. >> and this. >> extreme right parties. it is. >> absolutely sure and. >> necessary to. >> say it is not. others to give us the advice. >> to cooperate. >> with these. >> parties. >> which we. >> are not working.

>> with for. >> good reasons. >> especially when looking to the. >> history of our country. >> vance's comments were an alarming wake up call, but not just for germany. for all of europe. even worse, this is nothing new for those in trump's inner circle. elon musk has openly expressed support for afd. he's interviewed one of the party's leaders and even spoke at a campaign event last month where he told voters there's too much focus on past guilt over nazi sins and that it was time to move beyond that. it's a horrifyingly familiar sentiment of attempting to erase history. while all signs point to it repeating not right in front of us. far right movements have gained traction across europe. in hungary, there's italy, australia and now germany. there's a reason why there are laws to protect against the rise of extremism. but we're getting a stark reality check here. people like musk and vance are trying to obliterate this long established checks and actually boost those movements. steve

bannon, trump's former top ally, said in an interview last month that musk has proven that he has the money and influence to do so on a huge scale. in his words, there's not a centrist, left wing government in europe that will be able to withstand that onslaught. joining me now to discuss our democratic strategist, former obama campaign adviser and sirius xm host, and rick wilson, co-founder of the lincoln project and author, of course, of running against the devil. he plots to save america from trump and democrats from themselves. i just want to start with your quick response to vance's speech at the munich security conference. what did you make of his approach. this disastrous. >> but it's not surprising. >> he's doing the same thing that elon musk did when elon went to. >> germany and. >> basically told people that they no longer needed. >> to teach. >> the lessons of the. >> history of the holocaust. >> this is someone. >> who is. >> absolutely fine, uplifting. >> alt-right, far.

>> right regimes. >> and their. >> political tactics. >> but he's. >> doing it from. >> the bench of. >> the white house. >> he's doing it as. >> the vice president. >> he went to. >> their turf. >> and basically. >> is uplifting. >> some of. >> the most extremist groups. >> he possibly could. >> who germany. rightfully has moved to. silence because. >> they know what that can turn into. they lived through this. process before. >> and unfortunately, america. >> is going. >> for. >> around deuce right here in our own nation. >> but i think that it. speaks to something a whole lot larger. >> and you alluded to it a little. >> bit in your opening. >> what we're seeing. is a far right black hole. >> that is not. >> just one. >> that is going to take. >> hold in america. >> they see themselves as only successful if they. also are able to expand the far right, those views and those politics and policies across europe, that's what they. >> ultimately want to do. >> they want to destroy anything that looks like a democracy, but moreover, they want to be able to eradicate people's civil and human rights. they also want to create authoritarian regimes. that's what we're seeing. >> rick, how how powerful are people like stephen bannon and elon musk in a moment like this?

like to amish's point, will they actually have an influence in europe? no, obviously, we know that bannon has a lot of connections to right wing parties across europe. but but how do you see all of this playing out? >> well, it's an order of scale difference now. you know, a few years ago bannon had his version of nazi hogwarts over in italy and it got closed down. he's tried to influence elections, but the scale to which elon musk can bring financial resources and the scale to which he can use his social media platform to alter the dialog in a lot of these countries is quite dramatically different than steve bannon sort of trying to tape it together. but i do think it's important to understand just. >> how. >> heartened i communicated with somebody from the german csu a little while ago. i asked her what what she thought about what had happened with vance and the degree to which they were shocked and appalled and offended that vance came there daring. >> to lecture germany. >> one of the most free countries on earth when it comes to expression. >> where america is now. >> rated 55th in the world on freedom of expression. was was

appalling, and it was insulting to people who have been our. allies now since world war two, and who and who have, as few other nations ever have taken the hard look at their past, done the work that's necessary to prevent a repeat of the past. you know, ignoring it is what the germans did in the 30s. and that's what vance and musk and a lot of the alt right folks that now infect the trump administration view this as. they see this as 1936. they really want to drive hard, impose this authoritarian worldview. it's not even conservative anymore. >> it's radical. >> authoritarianism fueled by. an oligarchical little clique of. billionaires like elon musk and peter thiel. and so what they're trying to do is race to a finish line that we know what starts when they get to that line. we know what happens when they get to that line. it is not pretty. and the. fact that jd vance could go to dachau and then turn. around and do this.

>> i mean, mischa talked to me about exactly what rick is saying right now. now, you see this sort of split screen of jd vance. here he is, right, posing that wreath. and then he's out there making these extremely dangerous comments. i mean, does does he mean what he says. is he playing politics. like how do you make sense of that? >> he's absolutely playing politics. >> this is a very tragic situation. >> we think about the. >> history of the holocaust, which i think is one of the worst tragedies the world has ever seen. it deserves this memorialization, but we also reserve the right to make sure that something like that never happens again. not on our watch. and what we see in jd vance is a guy who, just 24 hours prior. >> can honor those. victims and. >> remembrance ceremonies, but then. >> the very next. >> day amplified the same types. >> of voices that. >> allowed for that level of atrocity to begin in the first place. what i think he's doing is understanding one. >> elon musk. >> and his money. and musk and

his money will never part. but even more, more. >> importantly, i think. is that the trump administration, writ large, wants to create a master class of extreme alt right politicians across the entire globe, and they have a keen sense on europe. that is what they are pushing for, because he recognizes that the strength of this white supremacist anti-civil rights anti equity regime, one that doesn't support democracy, one that is authoritarian. >> it can. >> only work if they also have partners in crime, so to speak, who also exist in other nations. he is bringing together a band of buddies that he is literally putting together while he's running this thing. >> at the same time. >> i think it's interesting, this relationship or this bromance between steve bannon and elon musk. but the one thing now that that steve bannon does seem to understand is that elon musk has the ability to install populist governments across europe. it does he what role do you think elon musk is playing right now?

>> listen, i've done politics in europe before and they are not accustomed to money at scale in these in these elections. they are not accustomed to somebody who would come in and say, i'm gonna spend a hundred million, 200 million, $300 million because elon has that capability at this moment, as long as tesla's stock price is up, elon musk has that ability. but but they would love to assemble and bannon and bannon and must have a bit of a rivalry because bannon is more of a hyper populist and less of a money guy. but they they are working in a common cause right now. you saw pete hegseth bring along one of the most, one of the most notorious alt right figures, jack posobiec, with him to europe as an advisor on this trip. these are people who are all pulling for one person in the equation. it's not donald trump. they're trying to pull together a europe that looks like what vladimir putin wants in his dreams. and it my german friend, you know, when she texted me back, she said, you know, i'm sure jd speech sounded better in russian when they

worked it up the first time, it just was not anything but a pro putin vision of europe. >> how do you think all of this plays out in europe? you know, thinking about a continent that has always been a huge ally and cornerstone of, of obviously our relationship with, with them. like, how do you see this playing out in europe? i'm thinking of france when macron, someone that is just trying to get emergency meetings set up because of what they see in the united states. >> i recall before the election, europe was also talking about essentially trump proving the same thing that we've heard from democratic governors here in the united states, not only for nato, but also for some of their some of their own countries. i think that they're going to continue to do that. unfortunately, what we have seen spread across europe is large anti-immigrant sentiment, which is quite similar to what we've seen here in the us that has driven some of their policies. and i think that what trump and his folks are going to do is continue trying to, you know, scratch away at that, making sure that they are emboldening individuals who are blaming immigrants for everything from

housing prices to their economic situation, the cost of groceries, so on and so forth. but beyond. >> that, it. >> depends on the stability, i think, of the economies of the european nations we're speaking of, because what we know from history is that when the economy looks shaky, that is a time where authoritarian regimes come in and they take off. that is a time when populism builds. that is a time when people are looking to outgroup, and when you're looking to outgroup, point a finger, expand a level of hatred. then it automatically lets in the darkestides of any country. and i. think that for donald trump, him and elon musk and any of the any of the rest of his core, that's what they're looking to do. and unfortunately, across europe right now, there are far too many countries that are still in a very. >> dire spot. >> in this post-pandemic new normal era. >> rick, briefly expand on that, because i know you spent a lot of time in europe and, you know, this is are some of these countries in the midst of the perfect storm to continue pushing to the right? what do you see? >> look, the immigration issue is one that the that the that

the far right has carefully exploited in europe. and i will tell you the, the, the, the flood of immigration into europe in the, in the post middle east moment has led to opportunities for the far right they would not have had under other circumstances. it is a an issue that works very effectively with working class voters, just as it does in the us. i think that that we're in a very dangerous moment. >> and if you want to. >> if you were to ask me. >> how. >> it ends. >> unfortunately i. >> think it ends in blood. >> and terror. >> that's i don't mean to. >> be so down. >> about it, but this is not a great situation that we're in right now. >> quickly, rick, what do you mean by that? blood and terror. >> i think we're at a point right now where donald trump is. >> going. >> to sell ukraine down. >> the river. >> to putin. >> and it's not. >> going to stop. he'll go into poland, he'll. >> go. >> into the baltics, he'll go. >> into germany. this is a green. >> light for terror and horror in. >> europe that we. >> haven't seen since. >> world war. >> two. abandoning nato.

>> which was. >> the glue that held europe together for decades and. provided global security for decades. donald trump and jd vance and pete hegseth took. it this weekend. they tore it up and spat on. >> it on the floor. >> in front. >> of their. their supposed. >> allies, all to. >> please vladimir putin. >> back in moscow. this is. >> going to end. >> it will. >> it will. >> not. >> end well. >> okay. misha cross and rick wilson, thank you so much. i really appreciate your time tonight. next, why google is no longer recognizing cultural longer recognizing cultural observances like if you have heart failure or chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life, because there are places you'd like to be. (♪♪) serious side effects include increased ketones in blood or urine and bacterial infection between the anus and genitals, both which may be fatal, severe allergic reactions, dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. stop taking and tell your doctor right away if you have nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, rash, swelling, trouble breathing or swallowing. tell your doctor about lightheadedness, weakness,

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>> okay, so google is now fully embedded in the culture wars after changing the gulf of mexico to the gulf of america on google maps, you probably saw that. so now the tech giant set off backlash for removing black history month, women's history month and pride month and all celebrations of heritage from its calendar app. google released a statement claiming this actually happened in mid 2024, adding that it is no longer feasible to put hundreds of cultural observances in everyone's calendars. but of course, this comes as donald trump seeks to dismantle diversity, equity and inclusion programs across the federal government. so my next guest says that the federal government did not give us black history month, and the federal government can't take away black history month. i'm joined now by imani perry morris, professor of african american studies at harvard university and author of the new book black and blues how we color tells the story of my people. professor perry, thank

you so much for being with me tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> given the way that this administration is weaponizing these wars on diversity, equity and inclusion, given what we're seeing from companies like google, how should americans be thinking about recognizing black history month? and i know it's an extremely simple question, but i think it's important to guide us through this moment that we're living. >> sure. i mean, you. >> know, if we look. >> at the. >> history of black history. >> month and. >> prior to that history week, we have 100 year old history or nearly 100 year old history of it. there are. >> generations of people who. >> celebrated this holiday this season. >> through jim crow, through lynching. through burnings. >> of schools. >> through disenfranchisement. and through an era in. >> which the. >> federal government and the. >> society at. >> large, and the. >> powers that be consistently said. >> that. >> black people had made no meaningful. >> contribution to civilization

anywhere. and so. >> this is a. >> moment where we actually have. >> to take. >> some guidance from earlier celebrants. >> who used. >> the insistence on. >> the recognition of. >> the. >> history and culture. and contributions of people of african descent. as a kind of fuel. >> for their struggles for racial justice. >> and i think in. >> many ways that tradition. >> of course, influenced the. >> other traditions. >> the other holidays that followed. i mean, there. >> we have some. >> guidance that comes from those. >> who came before. >> as disappointing as. >> it is that we. >> have to. >> return to many of the ways of. >> thinking about. >> history that. were prevalent then. >> what do you think is the end goal for the trump administration right now? >> i don't. >> know what the end. >> goal is. >> but i know. that it is potentially disastrous. >> for all. >> of us. >> and for. >> our earth as well. >> and for. >> the stability of. >> the globe.

>> and so i. think what is. required of us is actually to manage. our hysteria, find community, and actually rededicate. ourselves to the. value of a just society and a beloved community. and to. do so. >> armed with. knowledge and armed with. >> activities that are communal. and that's part of what. is the legacy of black history month. >> part of that legacy. >> is actually. >> public celebrations, pageants, you know, programing where people were educated in community. and it gave people a sense of sort of being in locked. >> arms with others. >> that was. >> extremely important. when people feel afraid and vulnerable. >> and so. >> you know, i. >> don't on on a certain level, i don't know what the end is, but i do have a sense about what we. can do. >> let's talk about what we can do. i know one of the things that you often talk about, professor, are these these models of community that we do

have now in the midst of the chaos. so what does that look like right now for some folks? >> well. >> i. >> think, you. >> know, one. >> of the examples people. >> always say, well. >> what do you. >> do when. what's your. >> response when books. >> are being banned? >> and i think. >> people ask me that. >> because i'm a writer. >> and my. >> response is always read the books. >> anyway, and don't just read them. >> privately. but read. >> them in community. >> be civically engaged. and that means that even when public institutions are under attack. >> and at times that means having to. >> be aggressive in. >> supporting them. >> and other times it may mean having to pivot away and. find other kinds of mechanisms for developing community. >> then you actually. >> have to be, you know, you have to go. >> and engage. >> there was a time. >> when america. >> and american culture, de tocqueville talked about this, that. >> americans were constantly. >> joining organizations. we had a robust associational life, and that has waned in recent decades. you know, we tend to live very private lives, but

private lives actually make us more. >> vulnerable to public threat. >> of course, we were now in the midst of a country that has that is shifting to the right. but does the pendulum swing back? no. what what does this idea of breaking america's commitment to diversity look like post-trump in your eyes? >> i actually don't know. >> that we are necessarily shifting to. >> the right. what we. >> do have is we have. some bad actors and pernicious forces. >> in. >> our society that have a great deal. of power. and so then the question of whether. >> or not. >> the pendulum swings is actually depends upon us. i mean. >> it is the tomorrow is. >> always an open question. part of what i have consistently tried to do in my work, in a variety of ways, is to actually find the multitude of approaches that people have had, to both acknowledge moments of devastation, to acknowledge moments of injustice.

>> and also find through. >> that find their way through those. moments with a sense of possibility. so you know what? what happens on the other side in many ways depends on us. >> professor, i know in the past i've, i've read many of your interviews, and one of the things that strikes me always is this ethos that you have, and i've always been curious about people now of not being afraid to, to listen to, to what others have to say, even if they potentially, on the surface, don't necessarily agree with you. and where do you stand with that approach today? how are you sort of practicing that, that that curiosity about understanding sort of the other side of all of this? >> i'm consistent. >> about thinking it's important to listen to people. >> but we. >> also have to be clear when there's disingenuousness and an. >> inconsistency that indicates that people are actually. >> just trying. >> to sow.

>> chaos as opposed to. >> actually holding. >> a real position that you might disagree with. i also think that there's something to be said. >> for not, you know. >> to say, okay, well, i'll listen, but if the position that you're taking is that my presence. in this society is of less value because. >> of my race, because of my. >> gender, because. of whatever aspect of who i am, then i am going to be very firm about. >> saying that that. >> is wrong and unjust and contrary. >> to fundamental. democratic principles. >> you know, sometimes people want you. what they mean is just don't say anything back when you say something offensive, that's a conversation. >> professor perry, thank you so much. i really appreciate you joining me tonight. thank you. and after the break, i'll speak to two high school students challenging trump's executive order banning trans girls from girls sports. >> i think i changed my mind about these glasses. >> yeah.

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two transgender high school students in new hampshire just became the first to challenge the president's executive order, aimed at banning trans girls and women from competing on women's sports teams. they previously challenged the law in their state that kept trans girls in grades five through 12 from playing girls sports. and last week, the attorneys added donald trump and members of his administration as defendants in that lawsuit. parker terrell is a 16 year old sophomore who plays on the girls soccer team at her high school in. iris is a 15 year old freshman who is planning to try out for the girls tennis and track and field teams at her school. parker and iris are here with me now, along with their mother, sara terrell and amy ali. we're also joined by chris churchill, an attorney who is representing both teens and their families. thank you all so much for joining me. i really appreciate it. parker i'm going to i'm going to start with you, parker, because i know that you love soccer. from what i've seen online, you're a really good soccer player. and but i also understand, parker, that a

federal judge has temporarily allowed you to keep playing on your high school team. so people understand. what does soccer mean to you? parker. >> it pretty much means the world to me. i've been playing for 12 years. it's just really important. >> for you. parker. what was. what's the sort of motivation behind this lawsuit? what does that mean to you? >> the motivation. >> behind it was just me wanting to continue to do one of the things that i love most in my life. >> and iris, just like parker, i know that you have the intention of playing tennis. you want to try out track and field. how would this potential ban impact the rest of your high school experience? iris. i would. >> not be able. >> to try out for. >> tennis for track. >> and field. >> i would not be able to. >> try new things. >> i would be. >> stuck doing things. >> that i might.

>> necessarily not like. >> the next year. i could. >> be stuck in. >> the same thing. over and over. let me ask you, do you have any preference so far between a tennis or track and field, one way or the other? >> yeah. >> i. >> haven't the season. >> hasn't started for. >> what. >> i want. >> to do for track. >> and. field and tennis. >> hasn't. >> started yet. >> okay, so that remains to be seen. we'll see. and chris, what is it? what does all of this mean to you? now, here you are representing two high school students in a lawsuit against the president of the united states, who essentially does not see their humanity. what does this mean to you? >> so transgender. girls play school sports for the same reasons as any other student. sports are essential to education for so many young people. sports is where they. develop life. skills like. >> leadership. >> teamwork, self-discipline, confidence. >> these are.

>> skills that parker and iris are going to need when they're adults. the current administration has launched. >> a targeted. >> and sustained attack aimed at making. it impossible for transgender. >> people to. >> function in society. >> it's employment. it's housing. >> it's travel, medical care, education. what we've. >> seen in the. >> last four weeks. >> since the inauguration has. been dehumanizing. >> and. >> it's been chilling. and the targeting. >> of vulnerable transgender children. >> is just beyond the pale. >> i'm so. >> grateful. and i'm so proud. >> that parker. >> and. >> iris are. >> willing to stand up and fight for their rights. >> i know parker. i mean, it takes a lot of courage. what what's been the response from your schoolmates and your friends around this lawsuit? have they been supportive? like, how are you dealing with that? >> all of if not most or. yeah, all of my friends have been. >> very supportive. >> they agree with me that it's just.

>> kind of stupid. >> to single me out for no particular reason. >> on that note, iris, since again, what you're doing is extremely courageous. there's a lot of other trans girls that are observing what you both are doing, and they're paying attention. some may feel scared. others are feeling inspired. what message would you give to other transgender people in the country right now? >> say stay. >> strong, keep fighting. we're out here. >> we exist. >> and. >> we will not stop. >> fighting. to the moms. i'm amy and sara. amy, i'll start with you. what is it feel like to see your daughter standing up? not to. to protect her rights. what is that like? >> yeah, it's. >> it's pretty amazing. >> you know, and. >> it hasn't been easy. as if. being a 15 year old starting high. school isn't. >> hard enough. >> there hasn't. >> been. >> universal support for iris

ever since the presidential election. there has. >> been an uptick. >> in harassment. >> and so. >> seeing her stand. >> up and be. a representative. >> for all of the trans. >> girls out. >> there is just amazing. her dad and i could not be. >> prouder of. iris and parker. >> sarah, i think one of the things that's happening here, right, is that the truth is that most americans don't know transgender people. and if you don't know people, it's extremely easy to allow yourself to dehumanize people, you know. and so what is your message to mothers and parents and people across the country that are paying attention to what the trump administration is doing? and what do you tell them about your daughter? >> parker is just. >> a normal kid. >> like every other kid out there. there's very little that you would find different between her and anybody else on the team. anybody else in her school? she's just a teenager. she just wants to be a kid like

everybody else. and that's what we really hope for her. honestly, she's the bravest person i know. and so i really hope that all of this effort. >> and do. >> you. >> is for the good. >> i'm sorry to call you out, but i'm. i'm wondering if for both of you. do you do you fear any retaliation in. have you felt any. yes. like any sense of danger since this lawsuit came to surface? >> in our. >> community. >> we. >> see pretty safe. >> oh. >> go ahead, amy. >> it's a it's a. >> concern. but we. haven't ever experienced. >> anything like that. >> we feel relatively safe and. >> we hope. >> that remains the case. >> go ahead. sarah. sorry. >> sorry about that. yeah. >> the same. >> we feel. >> pretty safe. >> and secure in our community when we have to step outside of that community. we do feel pretty worried and concerned, especially at the federal level, watching what's going on right now that that causes us to lose

a lot of sleep. >> and chris, briefly with you, what's the what's the heart of the strategy for you? how are you thinking about this case? look, we. >> all come before. >> the law as equals. it's a guarantee in the constitution. >> and when the government singles. >> out a. >> group of people. >> because of animus, because. >> of moral disapproval, the courts have. >> an obligation to step in and. >> stop it. >> and we're confident. >> that courts are. >> going to. >> be behind us. >> as we expose. >> that the real. >> drive. >> the real. >> motivation behind. >> the executive order that. >> the president. >> signed is. >> to harm. >> transgender people. >> again, here's the most important question for parker and iris. i play basketball, i don't play soccer. i don't play tennis. if we were to have a match, who should i pick? who's? that's a bad question because both of you are probably really good. >> i'm a bit confused. >> i'm horrible. >> you're terrible. why am i? >> i will.

>> fail. >> i'm horrible at basketball. >> okay, one more thing. any any athletes out there that you both are inspired by? >> i don't personally follow. >> a lot of. >> soccer, but. in basketball at least, i do really enjoy caitlin clark. i think she's inspiring and really amazing. >> there you go. and i want to thank all of you for making the time and to be here tonight with me, and just for just how brave and courageous you are. i really hope that people across the country are are listening to you and paying attention because it's truly remarkable. so thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. have a good night. later this hour, i'll speak to a palestinian poet who says his homeland should be rebuilt by homeland should be rebuilt by and for palestinians. ♪♪ chocolate fundraiser. with the chase mobile app, things move a little more smoothly. ♪♪ deposit checks easily and send money quickly. ♪♪

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so, here's to now... now available: boost max! to knock on your front door? >> t for president trump's first 100 days, alex wagner travels to the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you there on january? >> i was there on january 6th. >> did it surprise you that you were fired, given how resolutely nonpartisan you have been? >> and for more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast, trumpland with alex wagner. >> for the second week in a row, donald trump welcomed a head of state from the middle east to the white house and claimed the united states would be taking over the gaza strip, which is currently home to around 2 million palestinians. this time, it was jordan's king abdullah who, unlike israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu the

previous week, did not share trump's enthusiasm for what would amount to an ethnic cleansing. but what the meetings did share in common was this. world leaders and regional powers continue to discuss the fate of palestinians without giving the palestinians themselves any say. now, this dynamic not of people determining the lives of palestinians without their input, along with trump's takeover plan, prompted the prominent palestinian poet mosab abu toha to write in the new yorker that gaza must be rebuilt by palestinians for palestinians. mosab abu toha joins me now. he is the author of forest of noise. mosab, thank you so much for making time. i want to start by showing our viewers a portion of what donald trump said about gaza, and get your reaction on the other side. >> okay. >> i think that gaza maybe is a demolition site right now. if you look at gaza. it's all i mean, it's hardly a building standing and the ones that are

going to collapse. you can't live in gaza right now. and i think we need another location. i think it should be a location that's going to make people happy. you look over the over the decades, it's all death in gaza. this has been happening for years. it's all death. >> sorry to make you watch that again, but what is it like watching donald trump speaking about death and destruction in gaza while prime minister netanyahu is smiling beside him? >> yeah. >> thank you, paula, for having me. in fact. >> i don't disagree with. >> president trump. on what he said about. gaza and the people. >> in gaza. >> it's true. >> that gaza. >> has been turned into a demolition. >> site. >> that people. >> in gaza are not. >> feeling happy, of course. >> but the. >> real question. >> is why? >> why has. >> gaza become a demolition site? >> why people in gaza. >> are not feeling happy. >> and if we are going to change this for the people in gaza, we should, you know, talk to. >> people not. >> only in gaza but also in the

west bank, because palestine is. >> not about gaza. but it's also about. >> the west bank and the palestinians in the diaspora, palestine, palestinians inside israel right now. so if we want really to change the situation, if he really cares about our happiness, about our well-being, about our future, it should be us who should be asked. oh, palestinians, gazans in west bank, and how can i make your life better? how can i make you happy? how can i make your life beautiful? because this is what he keeps saying. and we are. we are the ones who should tell everyone, not only him how we want our how, how we can make our lives beautiful. >> so, mosab, let me ask you that question you mentioned in your beautiful piece that you and your wife have three children. so when you think about your family's future and raising your children, do you see your family's future in gaza? >> i mean, i see my the future not only of people in gaza, but also all in the whole world. when the oppressor, you know,

stop, stops oppressing the people who they are occupying. when, when the, when the most powerful country in the world stops fueling, you know, the genocide of my people, by the way, i mean, the genocide has not come to an end. i mean, people continue to die because there is not enough medicine, because so many people have been unable to leave to receive treatment in egypt and other arab countries and also in the whole world. israel is still controls. you know, who gets out of gaza? who gets in back to gaza. and i can tell you, i mean, as long as israel has the keys to deprive the people in, in gaza and also in palestine of their human rights. i mean, we don't have an airport. this is a human right. i need i need to live in a country, my homeland, where i have an airport, to travel to any part of the world, and also to return to my country when i whenever i want. we don't have a seaport. we are on the mediterranean, and we can sail in our sea as far as seven nautical miles. and this is not after october 7th. this has been going for decades. so these are these are the facts that we need

to focus on. what not what not not not focus on the picture that gaza has become a demolition site, but why gaza has become a demolition site and how can we make it, you know, a beautiful piece for the for the people. we should address the real issue here. it's not it's not the demolition itself. it's about who turned it into a demolition site and how we can prevent it from becoming an again and again a demolition site. >> what are your friends and your family telling you on the ground back home? and what are they telling you specifically about their needs right now and how they're living the current situation? >> i mean, so as i mentioned, i mean, so many people who really who badly need to leave gaza to receive treatment haven't been able to leave. so many people who have been forced out of gaza, about 100,000 people left gaza after october 7th because they wanted to escape and to save their lives and the lives of their children. and i was i

was one of them. so these people haven't been able to return. so, i mean, the question of return and leaving gaza whenever they want and for whoever wants that. so this is one thing. the other thing is that people don't have enough clothes, don't have enough shoes and slippers. they don't have. i mean, so many people still live in tents that they have been living in since after october 7th. and these people want to rebuild, but they don't have the mechanism to rebuild their houses. i mean, people are eager to rebuild. so this is another thing. the third thing, and this is very important, and we don't get to hear a lot about this in the news, which is so many people. and i talk here about 15 members of my wife's family who were killed in october 2024, in one airstrike in bethlehem, 15 people haven't been i mean, 15, 15 people haven't been removed from under the rubble. these people are still under the rubble. we haven't buried them. and so many people who are now outside of gaza, especially in egypt, they want to return to

gaza. i know two people i met in in gaza and egypt, and they were the only survivors of their family. while i was in egypt after december, i was i left gaza in december 2023. and when i met them, they they asked me, can you find a way for us to return to gaza? and it was just the start of the genocide. i told them, why do you want to go back? and they said, my, the body of my father, the body of my brother ismail, and the body of my sister ikram, 16 years old, 16 years old, are still buried under the rubble. and we want to go to go back. and they were injured, by the way. they told me they want to go back and retrieve the bodies and bury them. and i assure you, until this moment, the bodies of these three people and so many others have, have have been under the rubble for months. and so many people, they, their families couldn't find any bone, any even clothes when they were killed because the bombs that israel used, they vaporized the bodies. i mean, these bodies don't have anything in them. after the israel carries out the

airstrikes. so this is what people want. they want to bury the dead. instead of talking about demolition site and just removing this. no, no, this is more than a demolition site. this is the homeland. gaza, palestine, all of palestine. this is the homeland of our people. and they include the graves of our loved ones and the rubble that you're talking about, they are our loved ones are still buried under the rubble, and we don't have the heavy equipment that would enable us to remove the rubble and bury at least bury just respect, you know, to respect our, our, our tragedy, to respect the genocide that has been carried out against us. we just want to talk about, you know, how we are going to bury these people instead of talking about, okay, we will get all these people out because we want to offer them a better life. you know, these people have been dying, you know, and it's miserable. it's true. yes. we have been killed nonstop. yeah. the question is how we stop this. you know, you should listen to us. and it's not only us. so many human rights organizations, you know, have been talking about israeli genocide, about israeli

apartheid, etc. so that's why, i mean, we need to talk to palestinians. and one last thing, paula. what i'm saying. i hate it very dehumanizing to talk to talk about the palestinians. but whereas we should be talking with the palestinian people. >> and that's why your your article mosab is so important. no. and that's exactly the point that you make. and also, as you stress right now the importance of rebuilding with your own hands, with with dignity and mosab. thank you so much for making time. i really appreciate you and thank you to you for making time for us. catch ayman back here on msnbc next saturday and sunday at 7 p.m. eastern. you can also find us on blue sky and instagram at ayman msnbc. plus, you can check out every episode of ayman as a podcast. just scan the qr code on your screen to listen. until next screen to listen. until next time, i'm barbara ramos. the highlight of the day is mahomes getting the new iphone 16 at t-mobile. it's built for apple intelligence. hustle down to t-mobile like a dog chasing a squirrel... chasing a nut!

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