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slots for free and get a 6 million coin bonus. make every day a winning day. >> testing the limits. president trump is snatching authority from congress, sparking accusations that he's breaking laws and raising real concerns that he'll defy court rulings that go against him. i'll ask senator peter welch of the judiciary committee and norm eisen of the defending democracy fund, whether they think we are well on our way to a constitutional crisis. the purges next phase, more federal workers got the ax. and there's new reporting on the strategy behind who's on the chopping block. next, my political panel of jonathan lovitz and tara setmayer will weigh in. the soul of the gop. what it says about the republican party that senator mitch mcconnell is the principal voice against president trump's unqualified cabinet nominees. i'll ask

matthew dowd why his former party is totally unrecognizable now. and no seat at the table yet with the president of ukraine is telling nbc's kristen welker about any american led peace negotiations that don't include ukraine and how president trump is responding tonight. i'm jonathan capehart. this is the sunday show. >> good. >> folks, we may not officially be in a constitutional crisis, but we are quickly hurtling towards one like thelma and louise off that cliff. president trump started us down this road by using executive orders and billionaire first buddy elon musk to usurp congress's constitutional power of the purse to halt federal funding authorized by the legislative branch. but now that his actions are being challenged in court,

trump is bristling at rulings seeking to rein him in. when a judge in rhode island concluded last monday that the trump administration violated his earlier ruling to restore $2 trillion in federal funding, and ordered the president to reverse the funding freeze, he said judges, quote, shouldn't be dictating what you're supposed to be doing. he also said this about judges who rule against his policies. >> we want to weed out the corruption, and it seems hard to believe that a judge could say, we don't want you to do that well. so maybe we have to look at the judges, because that's a very serious i think it's a very serious violation. >> white house press secretary caroline leavitt took trump's judge trump's judge comments to another level. she accused the courts of creating a constitutional crisis rather than preventing one. >> the real constitutional crisis. >> is. taking place within our

judicial branch. where district. >> court judges. >> in liberal districts. >> across the country. are abusing their power to unilaterally block. >> president trump's. >> basic executive authority. we believe these judges are acting. >> as. >> judicial activists. rather than honest arbiters. >> of the law. >> so here's a little schoolhouse rock refresher for the press secretary. the judiciary is one of the three co-equal branches of government. thus, judges do have the right to rule against the president. it's part of the constitution's separation of powers. also this past week, seven federal prosecutors quit over trump administration pressure to dismiss the corruption charges against new york city mayor eric adams, nbc news reports. the doj attorney who finally agreed to drop the adams case did so to protect his colleagues. two of the attorneys who resigned warned that what trump was offering adams amounted to, quote, a quid pro quo,

dismissing the charges in exchange for stricter immigration enforcement in new york. adams has denied making a deal with trump, and the president remains defiant. in a social media post last night, trump shared his own legal philosophy, quote he who saves his country does not violate any law. i'm afraid that one's not in the constitution. mr. president. joining me now, senator peter welch of vermont, a member of the senate judiciary committee. senator welch, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. but first, let me get your reaction to that social media post from the president of the united states. he who once was a he who saves his country does not violate any law. what? >> well, that. >> is, you know, the so-called. >> unitary executive theory. >> that is. >> extreme and. basically says the president can do whatever he wants, independent of congress, independent of the judiciary.

you know, my view here is that president trump really is on. >> a rampage. >> of illegality. >> he has a lot of authority. he has an agenda. >> he's entitled to pursue his agenda with all the power of the. >> executive branch. >> but he's not entitled to do it in a way that's unconstitutional. and probably the biggest alarm is that. >> he. >> is seizing the appropriations power. >> that is. >> exclusively the province of the congressional branch, article one. and he's just blown by that impounding money, firing people who have legal protection. and he's. >> asserting that he has. >> the right. >> to do it. >> because he is the president. that's wrong. secondly, we've got a situation. >> with. >> the republicans in congress where they're essentially exceeding their independent authority. >> in acceding. >> to whatever it is the president wants. the real crisis will emerge when there is a judicial order, particularly from the supreme court, and the.

>> president. >> as jd vance has suggested he should. >> do, is tell. >> the supreme court. >> that let. >> you guys enforce it. we'll do what we want. so we're in very, very serious territory here with respect to constitutional principles. >> well, senator, what recourse would you have? meaning you being congress or anyone have, if indeed the president of the united states defies an order from the supreme court, is there any recourse? >> well, that's the that's the crisis. >> you know, when we had january 6th, of course, was. an attack on the capitol. and it was two things. one, it was a renunciation of the norm of the peaceful transfer of power. and also, number two, it was the use of violence as a way to try to stop an election. both of those acts were completely outside the bounds of anything we'd. >> ever seen. >> and what it showed is that whatever is in the constitution, that has been a guardrail for

us, but that's been cast aside in the norms are collapsing and they're being under direct attack. so in fact, there's enormous jeopardy here because in fact, the president bulldozes ahead. he has a supine congress, and then he has a supreme court that may or may not rule against him. but if they rule against him and he ignores them, then we're in total uncharted territory. and the dilemma that we face as a country is that for a lot of folks, it's theory when we're talking about the constitution and if they like what the president is doing, that's okay. but in fact, the only way we're going to continue to have another 250 years in a very complex society like the united states is if we have rules of the road where the big differences we have to resolve are done so in an orderly way. and that's what's being under attack here. >> senator, what do you make of the sort of not so veiled threats being leveled by not only the president, but the

white house press secretary against judges? >> they're explicit. >> i mean, what trump has done is used threats and followed through on threats against political rivals, starting with his primary opponent in 2016 and then with political people along the way. and he is now using the justice department to go after people who were his opponents. and he also shows that he'll use the power of the presidency to pardon people who committed very serious crimes. 1600 people, of course, were pardoned and those included pedophiles. that included a person who had previous crimes. and when he got out was in a violent altercation with police and includes a drug dealer who was actually going online soliciting someone to do a hit job for him. so the vengeance is a tool that the president uses quite energetically. >> senator peter welch of the

great state of vermont, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show and joining me now. joining me now, norm eisen, executive chair of state democracy defenders fund, publisher and co-founder of the contrarian and white house ethics czar in the obama administration. he's part of a part of several lawsuits challenging the legality of elon musk's role within the trump administration. thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. so is trump with all? i think the senator said it a rampage of illegality. do you think that president trump is doing all of these things just to see how far he can go? is he just trying to test the limits, or is he just blowing past the limits? devil may care, jonathan. >> he promised he would be a dictator on day one when he came to office, and he honored that promise, including by one of his very first acts, was to him to attempt to rewrite the

constitution. donald trump will decide who is the citizen, not the united states constitution. the issue of whether people born here and birthright citizenship. and we know this about people who assume dictatorial powers when they seize them for one day, they very rarely let go of them thereafter. and that's been true with donald trump, as he has violated law after law. he has invaded article one prerogatives of congress interfering with spending enjoined by the courts that birthright citizenship. i've participated in that litigation enjoined by the courts. he's fired people directly contrary to congressional laws. that's been enjoined by the courts, headed to the supreme court, and on and on and on. so i think he's very consciously trying to expand the powers. indeed. he just said that if the president does it.

>> i have. >> it right here. >> he who saves his country does not violate the any law, that any law. that's the opposite of the american idea, that no one is above the law. he says, well, if i determine that i'm saving the country, i'm above the law. so i think it is a very serious threat. and that's why i've participated in about a dozen cases that we've brought or assisted with. >> yeah. so i was going to ask you about the lawsuit involving elon musk. talk about why why go why go after him? why not go after. just keep the lawsuits focused on trump. >> three of those cases are involve elon musk. the very first case saying, hey this doge is illegal. jonathan, where is this department of government efficiency approved by congress or elon musk approved by congress? then he got in the treasury department, right? he attempted to get well, we got

another order. no, elon. we blocked him out of the treasury department. the biggest was just filed last week. we say elon musk is acting as a kind of super cabinet member. but like a regular cabinet member, you must be approved by congress under the appointments clause. the reason this is so important, donald trump has outsourced many of the functions of the presidency to elon musk, by far his largest benefactor in the campaign. he's an american oligarch. you see this in every autocratic regime. there's favored business figures. elon musk has business interests that many of these agencies he's cutting are regulating. so we've gone to court to say the constitution doesn't allow this. we're very focused on this issue. >> so all of these a lot of these cases will probably end up

at the supreme court. how confident are you that the supreme court will rule in your favor in all or maybe most of the cases? >> well, i'm confident they won't rule in my favor in all of the cases. i'm hoping that we see the supreme court. that said, right before the inauguration, the 5 to 4 court, the three liberals, plus the chief justice and justice amy coney barrett, 5 to 4, said those 34 felonies that donald trump committed election interference and cover up in and around 2016, he has to be sentenced. he desperately wanted to avoid that criminal sentencing. that five four majority did the right thing. will it be that one or will it be the six three majority that said he has these imperial powers? presidential immunity?

we don't know. i'm hopeful that the court sees this, these attacks on the constitution, on american law, on judges. jonathan. yes, they are judges. i hope they realize he might come for them next if they give him these powers. so but remains to be determined. >> one more question. less than a minute left, but i wanted to ask you about all the goings on with new york city mayor eric adams and the federal case against him and the quit, the resignations of 77 prosecutors who didn't want to end the prosecution. what does that say about the trump administration and how it views the rule of law? >> well, the leader of those prosecutors, the interim u.s. attorney danielle sassoon, and antonin scalia clerk, she is very conservative. she resigned in the strongest terms. that is the kind of integrity we're hoping for because she said it was a quid pro quo. you can't

drop a criminal case in exchange for getting immigration policy help. so she was very upset by it. she did the right thing. the other six did as well. that's the kind of integrity that we're going to. we're getting it from the lower courts now. we need it from the supreme court. >> norm eisen i didn't even get a chance to have you put on your former ambassador to the czech republic, hat to talk about what europeans think about what the hell's going on with america in the second trump term. but we'll just have to have you back. >> thank you, john. >> thank you very much, norm eisen, for coming to the sunday show and coming up, the soul of the republican party and what it says about the gop, that senator mitch mcconnell is a beacon of sanity on recent cabinet confirmation votes. matthew dowd joins me next. and later, trump's legal and political assault on the media, how his rhetoric has turned into action and what it means for first amendment protections. a jam packed hour here on the sunday packed hour here on the sunday show don't okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete,

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and just one person has emerged as a paragon of sanity and integrity among the ruins of the old republican party. y'all sitting down. his name is senator mitch mcconnell of kentucky. yeah, that guy, the former senate majority leader who stole a supreme court seat from president obama and didn't vote to convict donald trump

during his second impeachment trial. but that was then. this is now seemingly freed from the constraints of a leadership post. mcconnell voted against three of donald trump's most unqualified cabinet nominees defense secretary pete hegseth, director of national intelligence tulsi gabbard, and health and human services secretary robert f kennedy jr. more shocking than mcconnell's, no votes against them were where the yes votes came from. after expressing initial concern. senator joni ernst, a female combat veteran and sexual assault survivor, voted yes for hegseth, a man who has said women shouldn't serve in combat and has been accused of sexual assault himself. hegseth has denied the allegations. senator susan collins, a member of the senate intelligence committee for 12 years, voted yes for gabbard, even though gabbard has zero intelligence experience and

senator bill cassidy, a doctor who worked in public hospitals in louisiana for 30 years and is a lifelong advocate for vaccines, voted yes for kennedy, a well known anti-vaxxer. you know, you've entered bizarro world when mitch mcconnell is the only one who did the right thing. but the sad political reality is this. cassidy, collins and ernst are all up for reelection next year. nothing like the threat of a primary challenger to soften the once firm republican spine on issues of character and qualifications. but it would also appear the gop has given up on being the rule of law and law and order party. just look at the mutiny at the trump justice department. seven prosecutors opted to resign rather than acquiesce to a request from acting attorney general emil bove to drop a federal corruption case against new york mayor eric adams. danielle danielle sassoon, who

had been appointed by president trump just weeks ago to serve as the interim u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, described the adams case dismissal as, quote, driven by improper considerations. sassoon is no liberal. she is a member of the conservative federalist society who clerked for the late conservative justice antonin scalia. i admire sassoon's courage and conviction in upholding her oath to the constitution. what isn't admirable is the deafening silence from other conservatives, other republicans, in the face of an all out assault on the once bedrock tenets of their party. joining me now, matthew dowd, msnbc senior political contributor and analyst. matthew, thank you for coming back to the sunday show. just what i am just sort of dumbfounded that i am lauding former majority leader mitch

mcconnell for doing the right thing, for standing on his principles and voting against hegseth, gabbard and rfk jr. where has the republican party gone? >> well, that's the that's that's what we've seen over the last ten years. and it probably stretches further, but it's been accelerated over the last ten years. this is no longer a party that is a principled conservative party. i would argue that that mitch mcconnell, while he made machinations and did things i didn't like about garland and a number of other things, he at least acted from a principled, conservative standpoint, even if his machinations, i think, were harmful to the united states senate. that no longer exists in the republican party. the principled conservatives have been exiled if they took a stand or today they're quieted and they just respond to the sort of autocratic, populist movement that donald trump is at the head of in, in this. and i don't think it's so much the republicans are afraid, first of

all, they aren't principled and they aren't conservative. so that's a that's a definitive thing, but they're not so much afraid of donald trump. they're afraid of their own voters. and the problem is a third of the country now. and that's what it is. about a third of the country is welcoming to an idea of autocracy. as long as it's their enemies are punished or they get what they want. and it seems like it's more about their enemies getting punished because a lot of them are going to suffer under donald trump. but that's where we stand today. it is a party of filled with voters that donald trump represents very well, but it's the voters they're afraid of. it's not necessarily donald trump. >> so then, matthew, what does that then mean? if we do indeed get into a, a, a legitimate official constitutional crisis, and i am defining that as the supreme court says, president trump, you cannot do this. it is illegal. and the president of the united states does it anyway. >> well, obviously, that's the

that's the horrible situation that that could happen. and it also could happen where we could be in a constitutional crisis if the supreme court makes certain decisions that are all helpful to donald trump, that are against the constitution of the united states, ala birthright citizenship, if somehow the supreme court ruled that it's not in the 14th amendment, when it is in the 14th amendment, we'd be in a constitutional crisis as well. i think, jonathan, where we are today is we're in constitutional rot. and this has been happening for the past 30 or 40 years. but it's been it's been increased over the course of the last ten. and so the pillars of our constitution, our democracy, are falling, they're decayed. and somebody like donald trump is able to take advantage of that rot and do this in this. i would not be surprised if we get to the point where a federal court order is ignored by the administration. i think they've all but said they're going to ignore certain federal orders in this. whether or not they ignore a supreme court or a court order is another thing. but we are at

the precipice of a crisis, but we're in a constitutional rot. >> you mentioned earlier that a third of the country is down for what what president trump is doing and maybe down for autocratic leadership, as long as their enemies get punished. what does that mean for the two thirds, the two thirds of us, will we have any power, any say in turning this around? or is the president all powerful? >> well, the president is all powerful because in the end, he has to answer to the people, and the elected representatives have to answer to the people. the problem is, is a third of america is motivated against this and wants to push back and wants to do something about it. the other problem is, a third of america seems to sort of be acquiescing to this now. when they suffer increased prices, when they suffer loss of services, when they suffer various things, they i think will rally in the course of

this. but i think a message that's only about some a process message of, of where we are, isn't going to resonate with the third of the people that are demotivated and apathetic. i hate to say it, that we're in this point in time where a third of america is apathetic in this. but i think that's our job. our job is to sort of channel the people that are angry and upset, justifiably so, and try to motivate the people that aren't and explain to them what's happening or what ultimately could happen. in the course of this, citing various history references that there are fully acquainted with through the history of the world of how these things happen. but donald trump today is not stop owner of the republican party, not just the elected officials, but the but the voters, the voters. i saw a poll last week. jonathan, jonathan, donald trump has a 93% approval rating among republicans. that's after all these nominees. that's after all the things he's done. that's after all the crazy stuff he's done. he has a higher approval rating today than he did on election day.

>> and that's in addition to a poll with him, a national poll of him having a 53% approval rating. matthew dowd, as always, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. >> great to be here. >> and up next, president trump now says ukraine will be included in u.s. talks with russia about ending the war. after ukraine's president tells nbc news he won't accept any peace deal made without him. jonathan lovitz and tara setmayer, my political panel setmayer, my political panel join me aft swiffer duster traps 4x more dust, for a clean even mom approves of. that reach! making hard to reach... so easy. swiffer. wow. the mother of all cleans. love it or your money back! with fatigue and light-headedness, i knew something was wrong. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain,

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>> do you feel like you have a seat at the table. >> right now? >> i not only count on it, i'm sure that we have to be there. otherwise, it's not acceptable. >> that was ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy earlier on nbc's meet the press, responding to concerns that his government was being left out of u.s. led negotiations toward peace between ukraine and russia. secretary of state marco rubio, national security advisor mike wallace and special envoy to the middle east steve witkoff will be going to saudi arabia this week to begin those negotiations with russia. this afternoon, president trump weighed in, saying ukraine would be included. >> zelensky to be involved in these conversations, what will he do? >> he will be involved, yes. >> joining me now, jonathan lovitz, a former senior adviser in the biden administration, and

tara setmayer, co-founder and ceo of the seneca project and a former gop communications director. tara, i'm starting with you. do you believe trump? we just heard president zelensky saying, you know, they ain't going to be no peace deal without us. and then the president says, is he going to be invited? and he says, i believe so. yeah, yeah, he'll be invited. will he be invited? >> the answer is no. donald trump is a lying liar. >> who lies. >> this is the same. guy who got impeached the first. time over, trying to impound money for ukraine to use against his political opponent. he has sold ukraine out completely to russia. >> i suspect. >> that ukraine, if they are present at any point. will probably be. after trump and putin. >> have already. >> struck a deal and forced them to accept. >> it, which. >> is a. >> travesty, an. >> absolute travesty. we should. be 1,000% behind. >> ukraine and what the.

>> ukrainian people have been doing, fighting for their own survival and democracy in europe. and most republicans before. >> they decided to completely sell out all aspects. >> of foreign policy and doing the right thing, were supportive of us supporting ukraine and the money that goes to support ukraine. 70% of it went to american defense contractors and companies for. weapons that we would have had to get. >> rid. >> of anyway and paid. >> to, paid to get rid of because. >> they. >> were. >> going to expire. so like this whole thing about ukraine and america first and all of that, that is a bunch of bs. it has nothing. >> to do with that. it's about. >> currying favor with vladimir putin, donald trump's bromance with him. that's what it's about. >> and on that point, jonathan, i'm going to play another comment from president trump on the on the tarmac in daytona about putin and zelensky. watch this. >> do you think he. >> wants the whole of ukraine or just. >> like. >> what do you. >> think he wants? >> no, i think he wants to stop.

that was my question to him, because if he's going to go on, that would have been a big problem for us. and that would have caused me a big problem because you just can't let that happen. i think he wants to end it and they want to end it fast, both of them. and zelensky wants to end it too. >> and so jonathan, he is he was asked about putin and what what putin wants. i'm just wondering, do you think do you think that president trump is carrying vladimir, vladimir putin's water? i mean, they did have a conversation earlier this week. the first i think it was their first one since his since his inauguration, or at least the one they told us about. >> yeah, you're absolutely right. i mean, this is the bromance extended internationally. this is the musk trump administration doing everything they can to cozy up with their friends here and around the world. the problem that i see is extends so far beyond not just what's happening in ukraine, but what this means for america's legitimacy on the world stage. how can you trust

us as a foreign trade partner, a foreign partner in direct investment into security, whatever it might be? if we can't accept your word on this. >> right, right. that is an excellent point. let's turn our focus domestically. and jonathan, you brought up elon musk. i want to put up this this headline from the washington post. and this is records show how doge planned trump's di purge and who gets fired next. and i'm going to read this. doge has planned for the trump administration to trim staff from dozens of offices across the executive branch, including those that protect employees, civil rights and others that investigate complaints of employment discrimination in the federal workplace. jonathan, you were in the biden administration. you were at the at the commerce department. just broadly speaking, can you have you heard from former colleagues who might still be there, just how the elon musk dodging wrecking ball is wreaking havoc

across the federal, the federal bureaucracy? >> it's horrific. i've spoken to so many colleagues, career civil servants who are still there, who are terrified for their own future, terrified for the work that they've done for the american people, in some cases for 20, 30 years. the problem with the wrecking ball is it's totally indiscriminate. they're making up each day a new reason to go after some community, some office, some network. but what i think most people are forgetting is the impact this is going to have is not to, quote unquote, drain the swamp in washington. this hurts your grandma back home in the midwest and the deep south and out in the pacific northwest. like this has such direct impacts because the people who are being targeted, these aren't policy makers. these aren't people who are going in there thinking about how they're going to influence american power. they're there to push the paper and do the hard work, get the checks to grandma, fix the roads, get people the money that they deserve to keep living a well and healthy life. and it seems the antithesis of finding waste, fraud and abuse, which is supposedly doj's whole

thing here, that we're also sending a whole bunch of republicans to the super bowl and wasting how many millions of taxpayer dollars to circle around the daytona 500. mr. president, if you want to be the leader of the free world, start leading. >> a tara. we've got less than a minute left, but i i'm just wondering at what point do you think that the impact, the real world impacts of the musk wrecking ball will be felt by the american people? >> as soon as the small business owner, whose business depends on government contracts, has to file for bankruptcy and lay off their local workers, as soon as our parents and grandparents don't get their social security checks, as soon as you see the unemployment rate skyrocket, as soon as the maggots wake up and realize that doge is coming for you too. elon musk doesn't give. >> a damn. >> about you. he thinks you're a parasite. he said it. go read his. >> twitter feed. >> so this is something that i think is incumbent. upon democrats in messaging. if they

don't start explaining very easily how this impacts everyday workers, they're going to. >> lose the plot. >> this is a very easy thing to. message to the american. people why this isn't good. because if you look at the polling right now, the american people, a lot of them think, well. >> this is great. >> it's just an audit. it's just cutting waste, fraud and abuse. no it isn't. it's a decapitation of our government and it impacts you every single day. and it's enriching elon musk who gets $8. >> million a day. >> while. >> your grandmother lives on $65 a day. that's what you want in charge. >> they need to repeat this over and over again. >> because we're going. >> to we're going to. >> lose our. >> government very quickly to elon musk, who is a welfare queen himself. thanks to our tax dollars. >> tara and jonathan are going to they're going to be with us in the next block. as always, tara renders me like who, lord? but before we take this break. >> at our new project. >> at for. >> a reason. >> well, we're going to come

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lovitz and tara setmayer. so jonathan, i want to bring up the this horrific murder in new york state. 24 year old sam nordquist, who the police said was a transgender man. i'm quoting transgender man who had been subjected to repeated acts of violence and torture between december of last year and this month. this is according to the captain, kelly kelly swift of the state police's bureau of criminal investigation. a trans man found murdered. and i'm bringing this up because this this comes as we have seen, a concerted effort, a concerted effort to target trans people in this country, particularly by the trump administration, because. >> they're the easiest enemy. people don't think they know they're trying to other trans people in a way that makes it easier for you to say, well, this is something that affects them. people i don't know, people i don't care about. trans people fight in your military and keep you and your family safe. trans people work in every industry that you and your

family support. they're not going anywhere. and even as this administration tries to remove trans people from the history of the queer movement at the stonewall. stonewall first. >> spell stonewall without the t. >> damn right. and we're going to defend that. and as you saw here in dc, in new york and around the country, people are standing up in resistance to that. and i think one of the most important lessons is actually something we take from the obama coalition and forward is if they're coming for us and our trans community on a tuesday, they're coming for your community on wednesday. so either link arms and get ready for a joint fight or get out of the way for people who are. >> and tara, again, we have a minute left. but also this comes as the trump administration is scrubbing websites of any mention of lgbtq people, among other groups. >> yeah, including women. i mean, they want this country to be run by only competent white men. isn't that what the secretary under secretary of state darren beatty, said in his twitter post? this is asinine and this is what they're trying

to do. they're trying to erase our history, erase our accomplishments because they're threatened by us. they're threatened by our excellence because they're mediocrity and they're failing. up has been something. >> that has rewarded. >> them for many years. and when people of color and women and all the rest of us have equal rights, they actually had to now prove themselves. so this is something we need to pay attention to and not be okay with it and rise up and speak out about it, because they will not. erase us, ever. >> right? right. jonathan lovitz, tara setmayer, thank you both for coming to the sunday show. and coming up, the trump administration takes aim at the media on several fronts. media reporter oliver darcy joins me with a look at the impact on journalists covering the journalists covering the president and how the media baby: liberty! mom: liberty mutual is all she talks about since we saved hundreds by bundling our home and auto insurance. biberty: it's pronounced "biberty." baby: liberty! biberty: biberty! baby: liberty! biberty: nice try, kid. only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: liberty. hi, susan! honey?

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just like mama taught me. so i'm always spraying febreze fabric spray... to freshen up and fight odors. [inhale] smells like home. smells like flowers to me, man. thank you, zeke. ♪lalalalala♪ associated press access to spaces like the oval office and air force one, all because the venerable news service last week refused to recognize president trump's renaming of the gulf of mexico to the gulf of america. here's how white house press secretary caroline leavitt responded after being asked if this was a blatant act of retaliation. >> it is a privilege to. >> cover this white house. it's a. privilege to. >> be the white house. >> press secretary. >> and nobody has the right to go into the oval office and ask the president. >> of the united states. >> a question. it is a fact that the body of water off the coast of louisiana is called the gulf

of america, and i'm not sure why news outlets. >> don't want to call. >> it that. >> on another front, fcc chair brendan carr, appointed by president trump, has opened investigations into npr, pbs, and comcast and its subsidiary nbc universal, the parent company of nbc news and msnbc. carr is also continuing a formal investigation into cbs after examining and releasing raw material from a 60 minutes interview with then vice president kamala harris. remember, before becoming president, trump sued cbs over that very interview, claiming the network deceptively edited the footage. cbs denies any wrongdoing and said the entire video interview and transcripts that they released show that the 60 minutes broadcast was not doctored or deceitful. joining me now, oliver darcy, co-founder and writer of the status newsletter. oliver, welcome back to the sunday show. so the big picture question is the media

rising to the occasion of covering the trump white house, or is it too early to tell? >> i do think the. >> media could be doing. >> more broadly. >> speaking, to paint a picture. >> to the average. >> american that. >> washington, dc. >> is an. absolute turmoil right. now that donald trump, along with elon musk, is dismantling. institutions. that they are shattering. >> norms and that. >> these these changes. >> while might not be. felt immediately. >> are going to be felt by every single american. now, in regards to. >> what's happening with. >> the associated. >> press, i think you're seeing. >> the trump administration start to flex some muscle. and i think this is going. >> to. >> be the first of many. assaults that they wage against. >> the free. >> press, but. >> you're. >> seeing them block the. associated press. >> the. >> wire service. >> a very important wire service that a lot of other news organizations. rely on for. >> basic information, for raw information. >> they're blocking them from

having access to very basic events, like a press conference. >> where. >> there's a lot of media there. and it's. very clear they're. trying to. >> make an. >> example out of the associated press by saying, if you do not. >> obey. >> if you do not really. >> conform to the language and the way we want to talk about things, in. >> this case, the gulf. >> of mexico. >> versus gulf of america, we will just shun you. >> and you see this. >> at the pentagon as. >> well. >> where they have exiled. eight legacy news organizations from their, their, their. workspaces and brought in far. >> right organizations. >> like breitbart and. >> one american. >> news in their place. >> you're going. >> to see this play out, i think, in the trump administration. throughout the next four. >> years. because they want to really. >> control the information. >> flow coming out. >> of this white. >> house. >> particularly as they are. dismantling a lot of these institutions. >> and facing. >> questions from the press. >> but, oliver, do you think they will be successful in trying to choke the information

flow out of the government, to the press? i mean, he just got here for a second term, but the free press is woven into the fabric of this country over two, over two centuries. >> yeah. >> i think it's a. >> more complicated question. i think there are a number of things. >> that the president has done. >> that. >> have put. >> a chill out there on. >> on the, on the right to. >> free speech. >> and the freedom of the press. >> and you're. >> seeing this. >> happen. >> whether it's at paramount where. >> because of the cbs news lawsuit, they're considering. >> just settling this, even. >> though most legal experts will tell you it's an absurd lawsuit. >> that donald trump filed. you've seen it in technology sectors where. >> meta and. >> x and. others have settled. >> lawsuits and conform to what. >> donald trump wants, because. >> they. >> just don't want regulatory issues. >> whether it's jeff bezos. >> or the washington. >> post or. >> patrick soon-shiong. >> at the la times, you're seeing this having a chilling effect. people don't want. to. for whatever reasons. most of

the time, business. >> reasons. >> they don't. >> want to be. >> in combat. >> with the. >> white house. and so by doing. >> this, by making an example. >> out of the associated press, i think it makes it clear. >> that if. >> you do not, if you. >> do not obey, if you. >> do not fall into your. >> position, we. >> will take retaliatory. >> action. >> in this case. >> limiting access. now in terms of is freedom of the press itself. going to go away tomorrow? no, i think obviously the protect. >> that it's possible. >> that the courts will restore the. >> ap's access here. but it's. certainly having. >> an effect. >> oliver darcy, thank you very much, as always, for coming to much, as always, for coming to the sunday show and ♪♪ sonya earlene and marcia are among the thousands of real women living with metastatic breast cancer; doing what they love. and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for adults with hr+/her2- metastatic breast cancer as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed

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