now from your structured settlement call. now msnbc presents a new original podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she and her guests explore how the democratic party is facing this political moment and where it's headed next. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> donald trump is defending the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal. >> government now. can discriminate against the citizens of the country. >> we are all. watching and waiting to see who is going to hold the line. don't miss. >> the. >> weekends, saturday. >> and. >> sunday mornings. >> at eight on msnbc. >> good to be with you. i'm katie tur, judge tanya chutkan, who you will remember from the now dropped january 6th election interference case, has a new donald trump ruling ahead of her. 14 states are suing to

block or at least slow down doj's reach into the federal government. it's not clear how she's going to rule, but chutkan was skeptical of both the states arguments and the justice department's arguments. so as of now, d.o.j. can still work. here is what that means. more than 200,000 probationary workers might get fired if they haven't been already, including 15,000 at the irs. 5000 plus at the hhs, nih and cdc, among them disease detectors. the folks who literally detect and track spreading diseases. 3400 at the forest service, including wild wildfire prevention workers and 1000 at the va, likely including some health workers. among those who are not probationary but have still been fired. 350 employees at the national nuclear security administration, which apparently was a mistake that the trump team is now trying to undo. we've got more

on that in a moment. 300 faa employees, including some who work on critical air traffic control infrastructure and more than two dozen immigration judges. all of that, in addition to the 75,000 federal workers who took the voluntary buyouts. let's figure out what's going on. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent yamiche alcindor. nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley and law professor at the new york law school and former assistant manhattan district attorney rebecca roiphe. i'm going to start with you, rebecca, on this, because when we're looking at the legal challenge here, 14 states brought this case. doj is saying, no, we want to allow dodge to continue operating. what is judge chutkan considering here? what's she weighing? >> okay. >> so first. >> of all, i think it's really. >> important to note that this is a temporary. >> restraining order. >> that you needed to take a deep breath ahead of that because there was so much.

>> totally. >> and like. >> i said, not to. >> forget the. >> most boring but kind of. >> most important. >> thing. which is the. >> procedural posture. >> so a. >> temporary restraining order. >> is just not usually appealable. so there's a question about whether or not we're even going to have an answer on this. it's particularly interesting at. >> this point that. >> said yes. >> so the key here. >> the question. >> is. >> what is dodge? >> so is. >> it. >> an agency. >> is elon musk an agency head? these questions matter for a whole lot of. >> issues, including. >> the ones that you just. >> outlined. >> that are so important. >> like. >> the access to private information. and that is because statutes all over and regulations all over control what. agency heads, what agencies and. >> what agency. >> members can do, which. >> agency members. >> can access things. >> but the government is. >> sort of playing. >> this game. >> where. it's trying to. >> say dodge is. >> an agency for. >> certain purposes and not. >> for others. >> and that. >> in essence, means it can. >> kind of do what it wants. >> because it's. >> an agency when that. >> enables it to go in and do

go. >> into different, different agencies and access information. >> but it is. >> not an agency. >> for the purpose of regulation. that might reassure us that that private information is being handled. >> we were talking a moment ago with josh gerstein at politico about a case that the supreme court is saying about the firing of a special counsel. and again, this is a special counsel that's not like jack smith or robert mueller. it's a special counsel's office that oversees whistleblowers. so different thing. and whether donald trump has the ability to just fire that person without cause. there's also the question of whether doge or donald trump or anybody has the authority to fire this many people from the executive government, not just political appointees, but any civil servants. i just listed the number of people that have so far been dismissed, or at least at risk of being dismissed. is it more legal when you do it in mass like this, without any auditing, without any decision making on who's going and who's staying? or or is it is it is it better to argue that we just decided we want to cut 30% of the workforce? so we just we decided

to do that. well, you know. >> it's interesting to bring. >> those two. >> cases together because. >> you're right. >> that in. >> a certain way they have to do with shedding government employees and kind of enforcing this notion of a unitary executive, which is the executive controlled by the president, who can do what he wants. >> but yeah, it's very. >> different laws that govern each one. and so this question of what doge can do with regard to these lower level employees and. civil service protections is slightly. different from this question of agency heads. and it. >> should be actually. >> an easier question, the one that the supreme court is going to hear about the agency heads, because it's already decided in a related case. that it. thinks that these restrictions that congress has put on the president's ability to remove. agency heads, those are people who are responsible for policy decisions, are too aggressive, and that the president should be able to have a kind of more at will control over those employees. >> so as judge chutkan going to be considering this, is she going to be considering whether they can do these firings or is that part of the purview of this

case? >> so there are so. >> many different. >> cases. >> and i. >> think that. the case that. >> you are. >> talking about, which. >> is the one having. >> to do with. >> the attorney general, attorneys general, that's before judge chutkan is. >> really much more having to do with. >> the prerogative of doge and elon musk when it comes to these particular efforts that it's making. >> all right. let's talk a little bit more about the firings in particular, because what we're seeing and again, this just is a blanket removal. it seems like they're going through with a blunt instrument not being surgical about it. and one of the things that that stood out to me is some of the counterintuitive moves, like the removing of immigration judges, the firing of immigration judges. julia, we don't have very many immigration judges as it stands. and aren't there millions of cases in a backlog right now that they have to consider to deport people? >> yeah. >> katie. >> 3.6 million cases. precisely. and as we know. >> that's exactly. >> the kind of. >> decisions that trump. >> needs to be having made very

quickly so. >> that people. >> have final orders of removal so that ice can arrest them and that trump can make good on this campaign promise of mass deportations. and so. >> it seems like. >> it would be the exact opposite. >> of. >> what they would want to do. >> to get. >> rid of immigration judges. >> in fact. >> yamiche alcindor just asked stephen miller about that and the driveway of the white house. and he said, well, we need to get rid of people who are making decisions that we don't like. i'm sorry, yamiche, i just took over what you might have said there. but one of the problems here is they are looking at, first of all, a lot of these judges had not yet been on the bench yet. but then you have the other problem is that there are some people who are just, you know, being taken out with a hammer, but then there's a scalpel that's actually happening here. and we're seeing this with these immigration judges, and we're going to continue to see this across dhs as well, where people who are not seen to be fighting the trump administration's overall goals are then removed from their place in the government because they think that they could be standing in their way. and so i'm told that, you know, in the short term, this will

hurt them. but then eventually they want to appoint more judges to be able to make those decisions in a way that would be more in line with the goals, perhaps make it harder for people to claim asylum and to adjudicate those cases in a way that would allow them to stay here. we have seen a huge discrepancy in the way certain judges rule on whether or not people can stay in the united states or not. there are some judges who have said in 100% of cases no one gets asylum. other cases are saying 70% of people do. and so this is a way to try to have control over those judges. and last thing i have to say, katie, is that the way the judicial system works for immigrants and immigration court is completely separate from the way we think about the judiciary branch. immigration courts are actually run by the justice department, which trump does have some power over. and so although this is unusual, it is within the power to fire these judges and to appoint those that they would see as more ideologically aligned. >> let me ask you about one of the other counterintuitive. and that made sense, julia, the way that that you laid it out delay now for more expedited removal

later in their hopes. but what about these nuclear safety workers that got fired? peter alexander was doing some reporting on this. and apparently we obtained a memo that the trump administration sent out saying we need to find these people, but we're not quite sure how to find them, to hire them back. can you explain what's going on, yamiche? >> yeah, it's really, in some ways, striking situation. what you had was a number of employees who oversee the nuclear stockpile. that's part of the department of energy. we're told that they were being terminated. they were probationary employees, people who usually worked for the government within a year or two for a year or two. then the government decided, actually, we really want these people to stay. they do actually have important jobs. the problem was that they had already cut off access to their communication devices and their communication emails and other things to try to get in touch with them. so there was a real sort of issue there in terms of how to get in touch with employees when you've already blocked their access to their communication. so in some ways, it's one example of how

chaotic and fast everything is moving. i talked to a former clinton administration official who was part of large scale federal cuts to the federal spending in the 1990s, and that person said, when you move so fast, you're going to cut some muscle when you're trying to cut fat. the other thing we should point out is that there are just a number of ways in which we're seeing, of course, the legal pushback to all of this. there's this silicon valley mantra move fast and break things. elon musk has said he thinks he's going to make mistakes and he's just going to have to rectify them. but this clinton administration official was pointing out, well, when you move fast and break things in silicon valley, it means maybe twitter goes down. but in the federal government, that can mean that the nuclear stockpile doesn't have the number of employees it needs to oversee it. so two very different consequences there. >> yeah, i had elaine kamarck on the other day, who, you know, is a veteran of this sort of thing and helping to cut things down in the in the federal government, government and said that very thing. if it's silicon valley, you just rebuild it. if it's the federal government, people die, lives are lost.

yamiche alcindor, julia ainsley, thank you very much. and rebecca roiphe, i appreciate it. and the financial times reports the trump administration is pressuring romanian authorities to lift travel restrictions on andrew tate. tate and his brother face criminal charges for human trafficking, sexual misconduct, rape and money laundering. both tates deny wrongdoing. andrew is a self-described misogynist, influencer and trump supporter, three people familiar with the matter told ft. the tate's case has been brought up by u.s. officials twice in the last week, both at a phone call and in person at the munich security conference. a fourth person told the ft that a request was made to return the brothers passports and allowed them to travel while they wait for court proceedings to conclude. all right. still ahead, what donald trump just did to the faa. weeks after a deadly mid-air crash over the potomac exposed and understaffing problem at the agency. plus, amid a cascade of

resignations, he ordered to drop corruption charges against mayor eric adams. has just been put in someone else's hands. what his prior decisions could signal on that case. plus, secretary of state marco rubio has landed in saudi arabia for talks with russia on the war in ukraine. but there are no ukrainians there to negotiate this. what president zelenskyy is saying and also what european leaders are saying about it, you can see that some of them are meeting today in paris with emmanuel today in paris with emmanuel macron. time to press rewind with... neutrogena rapid wrinkle repair. it has derm-proven retinol... ...expertly formulated... ...to target skin cell turnover... ...and fights not one—but 5 signs of aging. with visible results... ...in just one week. neutrogena when emergency strikes, first responders are the first ones in... but on outdated networks, the crucial technology they depend on, is limited. that's why t-mobile created t-priority...

...the only solution built for the 5g era, that can dynamically dedicate up to 10 times the capacity for first responders. t-priority. built for tomorrow's emergencies. ready today. (♪♪) head & shoulders is launching something huge. ♪♪ the bare minimum. anti-dandruff shampoo made with only nine ingredients. no sulfates, silicones or dyes. and packaged with 45% less plastic. giving you outstanding dandruff protection. and leaving hair beautiful and moisturized. major dandruff protection, minimal ingredients. job done. head & shoulders bare. with fast signs. see the visual possibility in your business. with signs and graphics, you can save anything. transforming your space begins at our place. fast signs make your statement.

firing hundreds of faa employees with probationary status. that includes critical air traffic control employees. just 19 days after a military helicopter crashed into a commercial airliner, killing everyone on board. joining us now national president at the professional aviation safety specialists, afl-cio, david spiro. david, thanks for joining us. who are these folks that have been laid off? >> hi, katie. thanks for having me on. >> so a little bit about past. >> where federal. >> employees union, we represent about 11,000. >> faa employees, and they. are in the air traffic organization in the aviation safety organization for faa. so a lot of these folks that we're talking about support a couple of the key roles in faa, which is for us, which are the technicians that maintain the air traffic control system and

the aviation safety inspectors who oversee the air carrier system, make sure that they're following all the regulations under 14 cfr and of course, under general aviation. so these folks that we're talking about, a lot of them, a lot of them, let's say the technical workforce, for example, these folks maintain the physical infrastructure. so maintenance mechanics out there who are making sure that a building doesn't roof doesn't leak, the grass is cut, everything around that building isn't falling in so that the technicians can maintain the electronics. over in the aviation safety world. we talk about aviation safety assistance, folks that do a lot of the paperwork and background work for inspectors, so they're not having to spend their time and the skill of their trade doing all of that sort of work. and then another group of folks that we're talking about are aeronautical folks that that develop charts and maps and

provide products for air traffic control information specialists provide products for air traffic control, provide products for industry to make it more efficient and more effective. >> are these people expendable? >> no. absolutely not. and i think that that's something that i think has to be fleshed out a little bit. every everybody that has a role in the faa is critical to accomplishing the mission, to assure that these folks that are on the front line, that are involved in safety and flight type of work are able to focus on that and not have to look over their shoulder instead of instead of looking out the window. so these are the these are the folks that make everything happen. they they grind the gears. so the rest of us that are engaged in aviation safety can make sure that all of that is happening without without a skip. >> there was some reporting in the past couple of weeks that elon musk and doge got a plug in to the air traffic control system, and that they want to

make some upgrades to it. it is an old system that is in desperate need. from reporting that we've heard for years, for a system upgrade, for a technological upgrade. what is there in your assessment of things? what needs to change to make the faa better? and are you seeing, you know, put these layoffs aside? are you seeing any moves made to make it function better, to make it safer? >> so the air traffic control system in the united states is always in need of upgrade, and technology moves quickly. but the faa is not been funded in a way to allow them to complete that task at any given time. so there's plenty of money in the in the aviation trust fund that congress is not releasing. but what if the if the white house is serious about upgrading the national airspace system, then they need to put in a budget item that will allow faa to ask for the money to make that happen, regardless of who is

making an assessment and what sorts of solutions they want to come up with, the money has got to be there. and i'll say this you have to do it in a thoughtful way. you can't introduce risk into the national airspace system. there is no way you can ever just take a shot at and go, let's try this. it's too fragile. it's robust, but it's fragile at the same time. and we always talk about lining up those holes of the swiss cheese. and that would be an enormous hole in that piece of swiss cheese. >> yeah, it's fragile. and people are worried about flying right now, especially after what happened in dc. i'm thinking back to something that vice president vance said after the dc incident. donald trump came out and blamed it on die before any of the investigation was done and vance came out. i guess in order to buttress this claim, he said that part of the issue is that die would make it harder for the even the air traffic controllers to work, because the support staff below those

controllers might not be qualified for the jobs that they offered some evidence of this that was not backed up by any facts. but can you just touch on that? the idea that that maybe air traffic control or the faa doesn't function because they made diversity a priority? >> so the federal the employees that work for the federal government are not some sort of nameless, faceless bureaucracy. these are these are our friends, our neighbors, military veterans that that have this skill set that come in here and work at these jobs. so no one is picked off of the street, to my knowledge, for any sort of die standard, to put them into a place to fill a quota. everyone that we represent is a skilled individual, and they excel at their craft. >> all right. david sparrow, thank you so much for joining us. i really appreciate it. let's hope that let's hope that

the let's hope let's hope flying excuse me stays safe because it is pretty safe. let's hope it continues that way david, thanks so much. speaking of which not not like this story. the toronto pearson international airport has just announced what they're calling an incident upon landing involving a delta airlines plane arriving from minneapolis. ctv news is reporting multiple people were injured. police are on the scene investigating. we're going to continue to watch this story. as soon as we get images cleared, we will bring them to you to explain exactly what authorities are saying happened over there. still ahead. the resignations keep on coming, but this time, they're from inside the mayor's office. what eric adams is doing as frustration rises among his own staff. plus, what key u.s. and russian officials are set to discuss in a face to face meeting and why european governments are panicking. don't go anywhere.

>> important health care announcement. >> if people tell you your tv. >> is too loud, or. >> if listening. >> in some. >> environments has become too difficult. >> we are. >> requesting your participation. >> in a special program called the. >> 30 day risk free. >> challenge hearing. >> life hearing centers. >> are seeking. people with hearing. >> difficulties to evaluate a. >> new 100%. >> digital mini hearing aid now being released. all people with hearing. aids or hearing difficulties are wanted to take part in this 30 day risk free challenge. evaluating this new high tech device that sits discreetly behind your ear. this hearing aid is bluetooth enabled and rechargeable. all hearing assessments are performed at no charge. for those taking part in the challenge, participants will try these hearing aids for 30 days. now, to take part in this event, you must call. so please get a pencil and write down the

number below. number below. >> or call. ♪ are you having any fun? ♪ ♪ what you getting out of living? ♪ ♪ who cares for what you've got ♪ ♪ if you're not having any fun? ♪ ♪ have a little fun ♪ dodging sensations. you need sitter city. they've been connecting families with sitters and nannies for over 20 years. get started today at sitter city. >> my eyes. >> they're dry. >> uncomfortable. looking for extra hydration. now there's blink neutral tears. >> it works. >> differently than drops. blink neutral tears is a once daily supplement clinically proven to hydrate from within, helping your eyes produce more of their own tears to promote lasting, continuous relief. you'll feel

day after day. try blink neutral day after day. try blink neutral tears a different way upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. dexcom g7 sends your glucose numbers to your phone and watch, so you can always see where you're heading without fingersticks. dexcom g7 is the most accurate cgm, so you can manage your diabetes with confidence. ♪♪ with fatigue and light-headedness, i knew something was wrong. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. making that appointment can help you get

ahead of stroke risk. this is no time to wait.

dave's been very excited about saving big with the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. ahead of stroke risk. five years? -five years. and he's not alone. -high five. it's five years of reliable gig speed internet. five years of advanced securit. five years of a great rate that won't change. it's back. but only for a limited time. high five. five years? -nope. comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business. >> app today. >> enter $5 and. >> get $50 instantly. >> with code. >> tv prize picks run your game. >> mayor adams administration is about to get rocked. at least four of his deputy mayors have announced their resignations. the new york city mayor is already facing loud calls to resign himself, following what appeared to be a quid pro quo with donald trump's justice department. mayor adams denies this, in which the doj asked to have charges against him dropped

in exchange for immigration cooperation. joining us now, senior new york editor at politico, sally goldenberg, and still with us, law professor at new york law school and former assistant manhattan district attorney rebecca roiphe. i should note that danielle sassoon said it was mayor adams lawyers alleged mayor adams lawyers were the ones that offered the exchange of immigration help for dropping these charges. but talk to me what is up with the adams administration right now, these four resignations? how does the adams team function without these deputy mayors? >> yeah, i mean, it's an excellent question. you're talking about. >> people who. >> excuse me, who really run the government. you have the first deputy mayor who oversees basically everything. you have the deputy mayor for operations, who oversees, as the title implies, the operations of government. the deputy mayor for health and human services oversees the migrant crisis. and so and then you have the public

safety deputy mayor. so you have people who are effectively running all of new york city saying they can no longer serve in this administration. as i understand it, they're not stepping aside tomorrow. the date appears to still be in flux. and from the resignation letters, both those that were made public and those that my team and i got and other reporters got through sourcing, it sounds like they're anxious to have some sort of steady continuity of government. they're not looking to, like, burn the house down. but look, you know, i don't know how you really have both the staff there or the confidence of the people under them, the chiefs of staff, the junior staff, if everybody's leaving and everybody is saying, like, i can't work here anymore, i don't know how the trains keep running on time. >> mayor adams himself is facing quite a bit of pressure. any indication that he might fold? >> or fold. >> meaning resign? >> yeah. >> no. >> i think i could be wrong, but as we sit here at 330 on sunday. no, i haven't seen any

indication he was out today at a campaign style rally fighting. he was at a two churches in neighborhoods that are generally more favorable to him yesterday, fighting and giving his pitch really for reelection. he's, you know, throwing elbows at people who attack him. the thing that will the most immediate thing that will change his fortunes is governor kathy hochul, who does have the power constitutionally or charter lee, if that's a word, to oust him, if she gets increasing pressure from leaders to do that and she chooses to do that, then he's out. but as it stands at this moment and things are ever changing, no, it does not appear like he's about to resign. it seems like he's someone who's fighting for reelection. >> so d.o.j. has dropped these charges, but it has to go in front of a judge. rebecca, what is the judge likely to accept this? i remember that a judge put a stop to the hunter biden plea deal, because that that judge thought the deal was bad. how much authority does a judge have to say, no, you're not allowed to drop these charges.

>> yeah. >> so the. >> rules give. >> a judge a say. it's, you know, you can drop, the prosecutor can drop drop the charges with leave of court. but there's a disagreement in the legal community about how much power that actually gives. so some people think, and this is the government's argument. >> that. >> this is only to protect defendants. so if mayor adams is on board, then there's no role at all. others think that for leave of court is actually to prevent against corrupt prosecutors who are trying to reward somebody who's politically powerful, wealthy or well connected, which would be pretty descriptive of what's going on here. so it's a question of whether judge ho buys that first argument or their second argument, because those are very different roles for the judge to play in a case like this one. >> i'm still surprised that there would be an allegation of such a blatant quid pro quo that that seems to be backed up by public statements. i mean, you had emil bove going out and saying mayor adams can't be charged because it it interferes with his ability to coordinate with us on immigration

enforcement. how do you say then? no, there is no quid pro quo there when you have that statement on paper, right? >> i mean, i guess you could make a technical argument that it wasn't a quid pro quo, because, i mean, this is mayor adams's argument that essentially this is what he was doing before. and so it's not a quid pro quo because he was going to do it anyway. but either way, that's an inappropriate reason to drop charges against somebody, against a public official. i mean, to free somebody up because they happen to be ideologically aligned with the current president is not an appropriate reason. it's a political reason, a partizan reason. so to me, it's like whether it was a quid pro quo or not is something of a red herring. that's not what's important here. what's important here is why are these charges being dropped? it has nothing to do with the law and evidence in the case, and that is not appropriate, regardless of whether it was technically a quid pro quo or something. that was kind of like a softer version of that. >> so there's a new york primary for mayor coming up in june. the democratic primary, which is basically the primary for mayor because the city is made up of mostly democrats. who's the stiffest competition for mayor

adams as of right now. >> it's the one who hasn't gotten in yet. it's former governor andrew cuomo. he pulls ahead in pretty much every single poll, some of which are private polls, and i don't know who funds them. so i take them with a grain of salt. but some are like internal polling from opponents. he's way ahead. he has 100% name recognition. he has a record to run. that said, his negatives are higher than, with the exception of mayor adams, anyone else in the race? so a well-funded campaign against him based on those negatives could really do some damage. and then you're left with a group of people who are kind of all in the same boat. the current city comptroller, brad lander, his predecessor, scott stringer, a few state lawmakers zoran mamdani, zellnor myrie and jessica ramos. they're, you know, within a few points of one another, i would say among those, maybe zellnor myrie rises, maybe brad lander, maybe scott stringer. but i would say at the moment, eric adams has got to get andrew cuomo out of the race or he has to overtake andrew cuomo. it's hard to see him doing that

today. >> yeah. sally goldenberg, thank you very much for joining us. welcome to the show, rebecca roiphe. thank you as well. and we now have some video from the landing incident at toronto pearson international airport. a delta airlines plane arriving from minneapolis. take a look at this. appears to be upside down. unclear how it got upside down. it's pretty snowy out there. we know eight people have been injured. one has been airlifted. you're still following the story. and we're going to give you a little bit more on the other side of this break. stay other side of this break. stay close. this is steve. steve takes voquezna. this is steve's stomach, where voquezna can kick some acid, heal erosive esophagitis, also known as erosive gerd, and relieve related heartburn. voquezna is the first and only fda-approved treatment of its kind. 93% of adults were healed by 2 months. of those healed, 79% stayed healed. plus, voquezna can provide heartburn-free

days and nights, and is also approved to relieve heartburn related to non-erosive gerd. other serious stomach conditions may exist. don't take if allergic to voquezna or while on rilpivirine. serious allergic reactions include trouble breathing, rash, itching, and swelling of face, lips, tongue, or throat. serious side effects may include kidney problems, intestinal infection, fractures, life-threatening skin reactions, low b-12 or magnesium levels, and stomach growths. tell your doctor about your medical conditions, medications, and if you have diarrhea, persistent stomach pain or fever, decreased or bloody urine, seizures, dizziness, irregular heartbeat, jitteriness, chills, shortness of breath, muscle aches or weakness, spasms of hands, feet, or voice. voquezna can help kick some acid, and so can you. ask your doctor about voquezna.

>> sling okay. >> morning. i only left sling deliver the news. i need to. >> stay informed. thank you very much. >> nice one. >> nope. >> sling gives us all the news we. >> want in. >> a quick and reliable manner. >> and at a wonderful price. >> this critical. >> time calls. >> for the critical news coverage that sling provides. >> okay. >> okay. >> see you when i started walton goggins goggle glasses, i had no idea what i was doing. but godaddy airo does. using ai to build a logo, website and social content. so i can let the world know, if your goggles ain't goggins, they don't belong on your noggins! are. >> falls in the us. and that equates to 32,000. deaths each year. >> oh my gosh. and that's the thing that's so preventable. >> absolutely. for many, the stairs now pose the biggest threat to their safety. >> a stair lift can be the key

to getting your life back. >> when you buy from acorn stairlift, you're buying from the most trusted name in the industry. acorn stair lifts has the most rigorous quality and safety standards available. >> acorn club. >> monitors your stair lift activity. providing you and your. >> family with. >> peace of mind. >> i really. >> get a sense for just how slimline this is. look at all the space that i have here. >> acorn made it possible. >> for. >> us to live in our whole house. i guess. >> for you at home. are you ready for your peace of mind? liberate yourself. get yourself an acorn stair lift today. nice to meet ya. an acorn stair lift today. >> call 800 965 my name is david. i've been a pharmacist for 44 years and i'm from flowery branch, georgia. when i have customers come in, i recommend prevagen. number one, because it's effective. does not require a prescription. and i've been taking it quite a while myself and i know it works. and i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, "david, that really works so good for me."

makes my day. prevagen. for your brain.

month. call 183337354495 or visit homeserve.com. >> you're looking at video right now of an upside down delta regional passenger jet. this is in toronto at pearson international airport. it is unclear how the plane got to be upside down. it was arriving from minneapolis. we know eight people have been injured. one person has been airlifted. joining us now on the phone, lawrence saint lawrence. first off, tell me who you are and give me the update. >> hi there. >> i'm lawrence sadow. >> i'm a. >> supervisor with peel. >> regional paramedic services. >> we cover what is considered the toronto airport, but it's in our area. >> in peel region. >> and so what happened? >> i don't have the exact time, but we. >> got the call for a.

>> plane crash at the airport. >> we responded. >> we have. >> multiple units on scene. >> i can. >> tell you we had. >> nine, nine. patients total. >> we've had one child that was taken. >> by land ambulance to one. >> of our sick kids hospitals. >> in. >> downtown toronto. >> we've had another patient airlifted to. >> a trauma center. >> we have in. >> toronto. >> and the rest of our injuries are mild to moderate, with most of them being able to walk on their own. >> the type of injuries you talk about moderate, most being able to walk on their own for the child and for the person airlifted. can you give us a clearer understanding of what sort of injuries they sustained? >> ultimately. >> unfortunately, i don't. >> have their. >> exact injuries. >> given the. >> places that we took those. >> patients, though, you can see that those injuries were severe. >> enough that we want to. >> make sure. >> that we take the precautions to get them to the best center for treatment as possible. >> have you been given any

information as to how this plane got to be upside down? >> i have no information on that. >> unfortunately. >> we are only. >> here to take care of the patients. >> any of that. information will. >> come further from other authorities. >> that. >> are involved in that investigation. >> what of the weather? what has the weather condition been like in toronto over the past few days? i noticed that there were some news reporting about challenging circumstances at the airport was dealing with yesterday. >> we've had some. >> very severe weather. here over the. >> last five days. i believe we've gotten probably 2 to 3ft of snow with none of it melting. we usually. >> get a good storm, a bit. >> of a melt. we've had no melting. >> at all today. >> we have. >> severe winds blowing across. >> any open field. so obviously at the. >> airport, very high winds. we have whiteout conditions in certain areas around the area as well. >> i do not. know what the. >> conditions were like when the plane. >> was landing though. >> do you know how many people

were on board? >> to my knowledge. >> i've heard a number of 80 people. at this. >> time we. >> have all patients or sorry, all passengers and all crew accounted for, and we have them. on busses that. >> are used to. >> transport people throughout the airport. >> the two most serious injuries, the child and then the person airlifted. i know the child wasn't one of the crew, but the person airlifted. were they a member of the crew or were they a passenger? >> i don't have that information for you. i'm sorry. >> can you give us an age range for the child? >> again, i don't have that either. i'm. i'm coming to this call as a media officer only. as you can understand, there's a lot of things moving around here right now, and i haven't been able to get that part of the information for you. >> certainly a scary and chaotic situation. i was able to see some video from what appears to be a passenger on that flight. again, we've got to confirm this, but it appears to be somebody who's just gotten off this flight, showing it upside down and people walking out of

the of the jet that tracks with what you were saying about how most of the people on board with the mild to moderate injuries were able to walk on their own. so i assume you're talking about potentially just broken bones, broken bones, bruises, some banged up injuries? >> yeah. what i can tell you is i've seen a few people on stretchers that we have transported. i have seen one person with a sling on their arm, and i've seen others that are just potentially exposure type injuries because it is very cold here today, i believe. i don't know what it is in fahrenheit, but we are about -20 celsius with the wind chill here right now. >> that is pretty cold. lawrence, thank you so much. i appreciate you calling us and giving us an update with the information that you are able to share with us. we do appreciate it. again, about 80 people on

board. nine patients were injured, including a child who was taken by land ambulance to a children's hospital nearby, and another person who was airlifted. unclear the extent of their injuries but appears to be pretty serious. joining us now, nbc news correspondent emily akita. emily, thanks for joining us. have you been able to ascertain any more information from authorities about how this plane got to be upside down? lawrence was just talking about very high wind and open spaces. an airport is an open space. it would stand to ask the question whether this plane may have been flipped over by, by air, by wind catching the wind at the wrong moment. >> well, katie, the faa. >> weighing in just moments ago. >> for. >> the first time. >> saying that the plane crash happened around 2:45 p.m. >> eastern time. >> it was. >> coming from. >> minneapolis landing. >> in toronto. and as. >> lawrence has mentioned, 80 people. >> they. >> said were.

>> on board. the transportation safety. board of canada. >> will be leading the investigation, according to the faa. and as you can see from those pictures. >> we're looking at. >> now. >> the. >> plane upside down on that tarmac. >> also, one of the things you'll notice all. >> around it is snow. >> just hours earlier. >> the airport. >> had. tweeted or posted on social media rather. >> about how much. >> snow the airport had seen over. >> the weekend. more than eight inches. >> you heard from lawrence about. >> the high. >> wind speeds throughout the morning, the airport talking about. >> just. >> the sheer. >> number of crews. >> and their efforts, and working around the clock to deal with the high volume on this holiday weekend. >> this monday, they. >> even said they expected a busy day in the terminals, with over 130,000 travelers on board, around 1000 flights expected for the day. and you can see the emergency crews still on the ground there. >> earlier. >> we saw massive. plumes of. smoke rising from that plane. clearly something going wrong upon the landing, as the airport had mentioned, so that it had landed actually upside down.

other videos capture what appears to be passengers, people in plain clothes, able to walk off of the jet. it's pretty remarkable. no fatalities. fortunately, at this point. and as lawrence had said, nine people injured. katie. >> yeah, one of those might be a critical, though. the person who was airlifted again, one child injured as well. lawrence mentioned it was -20°c with the wind chill there in toronto. that's -four degrees fahrenheit for all of us americans who operate with fahrenheit and not celsius. it still is. the question that i still have is how exactly as everyone has. emily, did this plane get to be upside down? it doesn't appear it landed upside down, but with those high winds, it does make you wonder if it caught an air gust just at the wrong moment and maybe flipped on the runway. has there been any other video that's been released? any video security video of this plane landing that's out there so far?

>> still limited information at this point. katie, i think some of the most remarkable video to me has been some of the pictures we've seen of people able to walk away from the scene as we've covered a number, tragically, of plane crashes in recent days, whether it be in washington, dc area or in northeast philadelphia. we expect that investigators will be considering a whole host of things in terms of what went wrong. certainly in this case, as you can see from the snow on the ground, the consider the wind weather will be considered. was there a mechanical failure? was there any kind of medical emergency operator operator error, all of these types of things? nothing will be ruled out at such an early point in this investigation. now, just an hour, katie, from that plane crash, 80 people on board and a number of people injured. >> emily, when do we expect another update from officials? >> it's not clear at this point. we are staying in touch both with canadian officials. as i mentioned, it is the transportation safety board of canada that is leading the investigation. we just heard from the faa a matter of moments

ago. so these are details that are trickling in moment by moment, minute by minute, because of just how rapidly developing of a situation this is. and with some of those people being transported to hospitals. so i expect in the next hour or so we'll continue to learn more. >> emily, as i remember it, you were down in dc covering the crash at reagan, right? >> i was in dc and then actually on my way back to new york, i was rerouted to philadelphia covering that medevac plane crash. and so i think something that certainly this will add to is people's existing concerns and questions around the state of air aviation and is this safe? and we've heard time and time again that of course, the percentage chance, the percentage of risk is so incredibly low. but understandably, when we see these massive passenger planes come down, it raises questions and concerns. >> all arrivals into the airport, all departures out of the airport. toronto pearson airport have been canceled,

according to ctv, which is the local canadian outlet out there. they're citing airport staff and that would that would make a lot of sense given what's happening on the runway. again, we're seeing a delta airlines jet upside down on the runway at toronto pearson airport. this is delta airlines flight 4819. it's operated by endeavor air. it crashed while landing. it happened at 2:45 p.m. so just about an hour ago. again, 80 people on board, nine injuries, one critical. airlifted out of there. another one was a child taken by ambulance. land ambulance to a local children's hospital. joining us now, msnbc host and licensed pilot ali velshi. so, ali, one of the questions i have is about whether this jet might have caught a bad gust of air and flipped in the process of landing. it's very windy out there. it is very cold. the airport has been experiencing

challenging conditions. four feet of snow in the past couple of days. >> yeah, yeah. >> in fact, i just, you know, for the last four days. >> been getting. >> pictures from my family in toronto about how much snow there actually is. so you've got three things at play here. you've got a lot of snow that didn't disappear. you've got a plane that apparently made it to the ground the right way up. but what we can't see from the imagery is where the landing gear is, and whether there was a problem deploying it, or whether it didn't deploy or whether it broke. the plane appears to have flipped over. you said 80 people, 76 seats on that plane, plus two pilot and copilot and then probably two crew. so that gets you to your 80 people. there were winds that were gusting to about 27mph. that generally shouldn't be a problem for a crj 900 of that sort. the problem is, if you combine wind and you've got ice and or you've got a landing gear problem, then you have a situation in which an aircraft might flip. i will say, i remember the air france plane

that crashed in toronto many years ago, and the flight attendants and the crew did an amazing job of getting everybody off. the idea that there are eight injuries or so on this plane is remarkable. toronto is a massive trauma medical center, so very easy and very standard, by the way, to have somebody medevac to a trauma center just because toronto is a heavily trafficked city, it's like la. so you're just going to get them there faster on a on a helicopter. they would have gone to one of the toronto massive trauma centers that they've got. there are lots of specialty children's hospitals, children's hospitals as well. somebody made a decision that the ambulance is going to get the young person there faster. but yeah, i think we're going to have to look at all of these things. there isn't military activity at pearson airport. this is the main airport in toronto. so it does not look like there was a crash or there was anything. there were two airplanes involved, but everybody's been talking about the weather in toronto for the last couple of days. if you were taking off, for instance, you'd be deiced. you know, you'd be you'd be delayed on that front.

but the other time a plane had a crash like this in toronto, it was also a landing incident so many years ago. also a landing incident. so they're going to study this very closely at the moment. kind of remarkable, katie, to be looking at an upside down aircraft on a on a runway and at the moment to believe that everybody survived that. >> listen, i've, i've covered a lot of plane crashes. i grew up at airports. i grew up flying. i've never seen i've never quite seen something like this. usually if a plane ends up upside down, it's because it's hit something else on the runway and intact like this. so this is definitely new. and talking about the conditions, just as you were talking, ali, we saw the wind pick up and the snow on that runway pick up and obscure the crews. so clearly the conditions are pretty bad. we had lawrence saindon on a moment ago saying that some of the injuries were from the elements. it's so cold outside, and you imagine that people maybe weren't wearing their coats when they were landing. and when you

have to evacuate quickly, you're going outside in your shirt sleeves and that's not quite enough when it's -four degrees fahrenheit, -four degrees fahrenheit. it looks also ali, like there's quite a bit of snow on that runway. it's not normal to have. i mean, i wonder, did it land on the right the right runway. it has had this one been cleared recently. when you're landing, usually it's been cleared of snow. am i am i wrong about that? >> yes. and toronto is really good at that. i will say, once you get into measuring snow in feet, there becomes a problem about where you put that snow. so you get more snow encroaching on the on the banks of the runway. and so that's a possibility. you notice that many airports where the where the runway ends and it becomes grass, there's a dip. right. so if you if you're shoveling snow into it, that that dip becomes a mound over time. so it's unclear maybe the maybe the plane slipped a little bit. maybe that wind caused the plane to slip, hit a snow bank. there's a million things that could have happened because of the weather

and the wind right now. what you do see, katie, while you don't see a jetliner like that upside down, very often, small planes flip, often because of the wind. right? you come in and landing, you get your guts or you something, you hit something and it flips over. and by the way, people can survive those things if you've got your your seatbelts on. so there's many things that could have led to this, but it's very unusual. but you're right. the elements it is really cold out there when you have canadians calling you to tell you how cold it is. it's super cold, but it is a massive major highway airport. and by the way, it's a big hub for delta because delta has a partner in canada, westjet, which connects people to other planes. and of course, this was coming in from minneapolis saint paul, which is, you know, where delta has more planes coming in. so minneapolis, detroit and new york flights go into toronto a lot. these are often people who are either going home or they're connecting to somewhere else. so my point is it's a very big, very well run airport. they're very good at handling snow. they usually have clear runways, but runways are always clearer than

taxiways. and taxiways are always clearer than the rest of the airport. so it is entirely possible that that somehow this plane wasn't in the right place. but it could be. it's so cold that when that when that snow is cleared from a runway, if it's not entirely dry, if there's any moisture, if there's snow, that then an airplane tire hits, which melts it, it becomes ice very quickly. it becomes ice immediately. so there's going to be a lot that they're going to have to look at to understand how this happened. but i will say safety procedures do seem to have worked here. i'd be very curious as to how this all happened, because what pilots learn is to deal with these things with muscle memory, right? they tell you, you fly the plane right to the ground, and that means until the plane is stopped, you're not finished. you're landing until the your plane is off the runway and onto a taxiway. so the pilots must have been very alert to this whole thing to have a plane flip over and somehow figure out how to stop this thing. and, you know, everybody survived it. a lesson to everybody, by the way, this is why you keep your shoes

on, and this is why you keep your seatbelt fastened, and you don't pretend that you've landed until the crew tells you you've landed, and you're free to do whatever you want to do. that is, you and i have all been on planes where people get up and start doing stuff. this is why you don't. >> that's a good reminder. keep your seatbelt on. according to the cbc, the city of toronto says snow removal may take up to three weeks after it was just blanketed with heavy back to back winter storms. yeah, talking about four feet of snow over the past few days. you do also wonder with the wind whether that wind just ended up carrying snow across the runways after after they were cleared? yeah. >> and again, if the snow is on the runway and an airplane lands on it, it the friction melts the snow. right. we see this with trains all the time. the train melts the snow, but then it becomes ice. so the back of the train is now hitting ice when the front of the train was hitting snow. so that's always a possibility when it's that cold and snow can actually get onto the runway. snow becomes ice. >> and again, 80 people on board. as ali mentioned. two of

them were pilots. two likely were crew members. 76 seats on that plane. nine people injured, two of them serious. one of them appears to be in critical condition, taken, airlifted to a trauma center in toronto. and as ali mentioned, there's a lot of traffic out there, so airlifting makes a lot of sense. also, a child that was injured as well, taken by land ambulance to a local children's hospital. it's unclear the extent of those injuries or the age of the child. obviously this is just happening right now. happened one hour ago at 245. again, this is a delta, a regional jet coming in from minneapolis. minneapolis is a hub. toronto is a hub. hundreds of flights a day on delta going between these airports. and this one something went wrong. the jet somehow found itself upside down. it's unclear if it happened after the plane landed and while it was taxiing, or if it happened as the plane was landing. unclear how the plane stopped. clearly

it did. it is still intact, which is the good news. probably a big reason why so many on the plane were able to walk out. the paramedic that i was talking to a moment ago, lauren saindon, saying that many of the injuries that they were treating were for exposure because it's -four degrees fahrenheit out there and it is very windy. negative four degrees with the wind chill. and you're going to get injuries just from the weather pretty quickly when you're outside. if you are not wearing your coat. and it would stand to reason that while you're sitting there strapped into that plane, you don't have your coat on. and when you're rushing out to get out of a plane because you don't want to stay in it, god forbid that jet fuel should should ignite. you're not grabbing your jacket before you you get out of that that that plane. ali, this is a it's a big airport, as you were mentioning a moment ago, a big hub. you were talking about some crashes over the years, but the safety record in general pretty stellar. >> very good. yes. it's very, very strong in toronto. in fact, it was a plane crash of an air

france plane that crashed many years ago, over a decade ago. kudos to the flight crew on there. they got everybody off. it is a very safe airport, in part because it's in a place. first of all, it's a big hub. and secondly, it's just got a lot of weather like this. toronto is very used to dealing with this weather. in fact, when i was growing up in toronto as a kid, we would send our trucks to buffalo to help them get out of weather problems. so it's very rare that toronto would have a delay in, in, in getting streets cleared. the airport, by the way, is right on the boundary. it's not actually in toronto. it's in a city called mississauga, which is why you're hearing from the peel regional police. that's the region outside of toronto, but it's on the border. basically, the edge of the airport is toronto. and they are good at this stuff. they normally can handle weather at the airport. so there will be questions. i've seen it already on social media, people wondering if you had the high winds and you had that much snow and you had gusting snow. why is the airport open? as you know, there's a lot of pressure on hub airports to stay open because lots of airlines use them and lots of people depend on it to

get around. but that's going to be a question. is this too much snow for toronto to handle? and can that snow be cleared from the runway and not end up back on the runway as ice? very unusual, as you said, to see a plane upside down with these nine injuries is remarkable. to see it in one piece is remarkable, which suggests to me and we'll get we'll obviously have video of this because it's daytime in toronto. so they will have video of the plane having landed, but it looks like it flipped to some degree under control. it was at a lower speed. i mean, that plane probably landed over 100 miles an hour and then had to slow down to a point that if you flip, you don't actually break the plane. >> all right, ali, thank you so much. we're going to go to nbc news aviation analyst john cox. now john ali and i were talking about just the circumstances that were that led up to this crash, circumstances that we know about. we obviously don't know what specifically happened, but the weather conditions are pretty bad there. it is very cold, very icy, lots of snow,

four feet of snow in the past few days, enough to take weeks to clear. and it's pretty windy with gusts, ali was saying, according to his research, 26 miles an hour. that being said, john, 26 miles an hour is something that a regional jet can handle. is it potentially the addition of these other forces the wind, the snow, the ice, the frigid temperatures that could have that could have concluded in a in an image like this with a delta regional jet upside down on a runway. have you ever seen anything like this? >> well. >> we a lot of things we don't know yet. >> the wind. >> was actually more significant than than what. >> you indicated. the. official reports. >> just after the accident. it was the winds were blowing out of the west at about 27 to 35 knots, which is. 37 miles an hour or. >> so. >> so that. >> it is a windy day. >> it's a gusty day. >> and exactly. >> what happened here, we don't

know. >> the images. >> are very clear that the right wing is broken off of the airplane. so that's what. >> led to the fact that it. >> ended up. >> upside down. so those those are things that the investigators. >> are going to look at. they're going to look at. >> the. >> weather conditions. they're going to look at. >> the wind gusts. >> they're going to look at the wing when they find it and. >> see if it has. any impact. >> damage or anything like that. these are things that the investigators are going to look at. >> yeah. you wonder if maybe the plane hit a patch of ice, a wind gust caught it at the wrong time, and then just pushed it over and broke a wing off. obviously we're going to find out the exact details, but certainly an image unlike anything i've ever seen covering this sort of stuff at delta regional airlines jet upside down on the runway and in tact. that is going to do it for me this hour. thank you for joining us for this breaking news. deadline. white house starts right now.