high five. five years? -nope. comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business. unique formula. >> stops odor. >> before it starts. >> that's my secret. to better odor control everywhere. >> if you read one book about creativity this year, let it be this one. susan morrison's lawn. susan morrison gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. >> tonight. backlash as opponents of the trump must government overhaul take to the streets, the doge team pushes for access to taxpayers personal data as the white house prepares to fire homeland security officials who might not agree with trump's agenda. and a delta airlines jet crashes and overturns at the toronto airport, the latest as the 11th hour gets underway on this monday night. good evening once

again, i'm stephanie ruhle. it is day 29 of the second trump administration. and on this president's day, americans in cities from coast to coast gathered to protest the trump administration and what it has done over the last month. some protesters called it the not my presidents day. the official white house x account celebrated the federal holiday by posting the mug shot of donald trump, the first convicted felon elected president. but it is this trump post over the weekend that is getting the most attention from serious people. quote he who saves his country does not violate any law. meanwhile, just one month into trump's new term, one of his decisions is already headed to the supreme court. trump's lawyers are asking the justices to let him fire the head of the office of special counsel. that is the independent agency that protects government whistleblowers and enforces all

important ethics laws. also in washington, it seems like judge tanya chutkan will not immediately stop what elon musk and his team are doing to the federal government, she says. the states filing the lawsuit are relying mostly on news reports about what musk is doing, and not showing enough evidence that he's actually doing damage. kelly o'donnell has a closer look at what musk and the doge team are actually up to. >> president trump's department of government efficiency and elon musk's doge team continue to make cuts, including at the federal aviation administration. close to 300 faa employees terminated this weekend, according to a union that represents workers. their 28 year old, jason king, was at faa for eight months. when you were doing your job at faa, did you believe you were helping to make the public safer? >> i truly did. >> king, an army veteran with a service related disability, says he worries cuts could be too

deep. >> even for the people that are still there. >> their workload. >> has drastically increased. >> and i think that's where a big part of my concern. >> for the public safety comes in. >> other federal job cuts may also be linked to public safety. 400 layoffs at homeland security, including 200 positions at fema, the federal emergency management agency, hundreds fired from the centers for disease control, including about two dozen who support outbreak response, according to agency sources. meanwhile, an employee affiliated with doge is expected to seek access to an irs system that holds sensitive information. today, trump adviser stephen miller insisted americans personal financial data will be secure. >> i give you complete and total assurance on that point. we are talking about performing a basic

anti-fraud review to ensure that people are not engaging in large scale theft of federal taxpayer benefits. >> tonight, the washington post reports the acting commissioner of the social security administration has left her job after clashing with the doge team. nbc news is confirming that and reports that the doge team wanted access to sensitive personal data. with that, let's get smarter with our lead off panel on president's day, melanie zanona, our newest nbc capitol hill correspondent. jackie alemany, white house reporter for the washington post and an msnbc contributor. and tom nichols, staff writer for the atlantic and professor emeritus at the navy war college. jackie, let's start with you. what can you tell us about doge and social security? >> yes. thanks so much for having me. >> it was. >> a great scoop by. my colleagues. >> although they. >> have, it is still unclear in this. >> moment about what. >> data musk associates. >> wanted at the. >> social security. >> administration or the exact circumstances that led to king's

departure. >> but what is at. >> stake here is. the system that is responsible for managing the pensions of over 70. >> million. >> american seniors and a vast trove of personal data, including work history, pay history. >> and where. >> people live. >> and this. >> move by. >> the department. >> of government efficiency and. >> elon musk is. >> in line. >> with what they. >> have tried. >> to do. >> to other systems and. data in terms of obtaining access. >> that has. >> also prompted. >> the resignation. >> of senior executives. across all government agencies. >> earlier this month, we had reported. >> that the highest ranking. civil servant. >> at the treasury. >> department resigned. after refusing to grant doge. >> access to the bureau. >> of fiscal. >> treasury to the bureau. >> of. >> fiscal service, which is. >> at the treasury department. >> and also. >> contains a lot of. >> highly sensitive information. along with. >> as we. >> reported this weekend, doge. >> seeking. access now. to a

heavily guarded. system at. >> the internal. revenue service. >> that has the financial information of every single taxpayer, business and nonprofit across the country. >> tom, your latest piece in the atlantic is a must read entitled the death of government expertise. in it, you say that one of the greatest tricks that president trump and elon musk have pulled is convincing people that these mass firings are about government efficiency. you say they are not. not by a long shot. explain. >> yeah, these were about efficiency. then they would be targeted and carefully considered in cooperation with the people who run these agencies. but musk hasn't even bothered to figure out half of what he's wrecking. and so and there's an irony here as well, that when you're firing all the new folks, all these young probationers, you're actually making it so that the senior civil servants actually have to stay in place. the people that you think you're getting rid of

now actually have more job security rather than less. what's really going on is this is both trump and musk really resent experts and apolitical government civil servants. in trump's case, he resents them because they are one of the last fire breaks against presidential political cronyism. an apolitical civil service is an important part of a functioning democracy, and that is reason enough for donald trump to want to get rid of it. for musk, he you know, he is one of these plutocrats who thinks that money equals intelligence and that if people won't listen to him, then you simply replace them all with people who will do what you tell them to, as if the government is just another big business that you happen to run. and if people don't like the way you run it, then you just trash the place and fire them. and so this is this has nothing to do with efficiency. and i think people need to ask as well, if this is

all about efficiency, why does elon musk need your tax returns? why does he need this kind of personal data at places like the irs? the fact is he doesn't. he's like a kid loose in the candy store at this point. and he and these teams of young people have no idea what they're doing. but the point is not efficiency, but simply resentful destruction. >> well. >> tom. >> let's say it's going to keep going on. >> let's say we take elon musk at his word. just one of his claims, right? his most recent claim that tens of millions of americans that are dead are getting social security benefits. the press secretary has repeated this claim to the white house press corps. if this is true, shouldn't findings this big be something he has to share with congress under oath, with evidence? tom. >> i'm sorry if you're asking me. yeah, of course, if there were really evidence here, of

course he could present it and say, we you know, we've done this systematic review. we found all these dead people collecting checks. the thing is, musk just says these things. and in this way, he's very much like trump. he just asserts things, injects them into the kind of social media, public consciousness, you know, the information stream and then says, you know, but i could be wrong. like he said the other day at the white house, well, i'm going to get a few things wrong. well, if you're arguing that the social security administration is completely messed up and paying out zillions of dollars to dead people, you can't just freelance that. but it's a way of mobilizing people and mobilizing their resentment. these are people who think the government is paying dead people, that the government is full of these deadwood bureaucrats who aren't doing anything for homeland security or aviation or nuclear security. so you just invent stuff and say, i think, you know, i think dead people are getting checks and then let you kind of let the chips fall. and if they if it turns out later

that you're wrong, say, well, okay, so i got something wrong. but again, the point is to enable a kind of social base that will support this, this kind of reckless destruction of the government that musk wants to conduct. i think both trump and musk want to conduct for their own purposes. >> well, many government employees that are being let go are experts with tons of experience and not at random things. right. these people give briefings to congress on a regular basis on things like national security and public health. melanie, are lawmakers worried that they're getting that? we are getting rid of the best and the brightest, and the information they rely on isn't going to be there? >> well, certainly that is the case with democrats. republicans privately might say that publicly, we have not really heard any of them come out and say that. but what i will make a mention of is that some of these cuts have been hitting close to home for some republicans. i mean, remember, government workers are not just in dc. they're all across the country, including in red states. and so

we have seen a number of congressional offices who said they are hearing from constituents who are really concerned about the scope and speed of these actions and these cuts. we've heard a handful of members speaking out saying they're concerned, for example, susan collins, who's concerned about the nih cuts, how. that might impact research. but for the most part, republicans are not doing a whole lot, if anything, to stand up to trump or elon musk. in fact, they're largely sitting back, even these appropriators who are the heads of these key spending committees, are sitting back and saying, we're actually okay with elon musk taking the reins and taking some of our congressional power to make these key spending decisions. but, stephanie, you're so right to point it out because so many of these cuts are going to have real world impacts, right? elon musk is approaching this like he probably did in the private sector. but it's one thing, if you're going into something like twitter and making all these changes, no one's going to die because they can't get access to their twitter account. right. but there are real world consequences, not just the

people, the federal workers who are losing their jobs. and it's important to keep sight of the real human impacts here, but also the impact on the services, whether it's the nuclear arsenal and the people who are in charge of keeping that safe, or the faa or a whole litany of things working on the bird flu right now at fda, all these different agencies who are critical to government services that people use every day. so i think as we start to experience the impacts of these cuts, i do think members of congress, including republicans, are going to hear a lot more from their constituents about it. >> so president trump posted on social media the following quote, he who saves his country does not violate any law. at the same time, he could come out and say, here's why i'm doing all of these things, and here's how these crucial government functions will keep running. here's how you'll be protected. but he's not doing that, jackie, are we are you hearing you cover the white house from the white

house, that we're going to start to get some of those explanations. explanations that will make america feel more assured that they're safe? >> well. >> the consistent. >> talking points. >> that we're getting from the white house right. now is that this is exactly. what president. >> trump campaigned. >> on. >> and that. >> anyone who. wasn't previously. >> clear eyed about. it is. >> now seeing. >> him actually. >> execute these these campaign promises. >> and if you talk to any sort of maga. >> allies over. >> the past year, they. >> will say. >> that this. is this. >> was the. >> purpose of. having groups like america. first policy and. >> these outside groups. project 2025. >> heritage foundation. >> all of. these different. >> entities that have spent the past four years trying to come up with legal theories and. >> structures in order. >> to execute. >> trump's goals. >> and objectives in. >> much more. >> efficient ways than he did in the first administration. especially as. trump is.

>> essentially going. >> to become a. lame duck. >> in two. >> years during 2026. >> midterms, potentially. >> and he has. even less time than, you know. >> a first term president. >> and so i think that we're we're. >> seeing some. >> schisms come to life. >> right now when. >> it comes. >> to conservative interpretation of the law and just how much trump. >> can embrace. the unitary theory and. channel this executive power. but what it doesn't. >> seem like right now. >> is that there. >> are any. >> other branches, at least. >> in this moment. congress would be. >> able to act the fastest compared to. >> the judiciary. >> branch, which is, you know, just i guess it's a positive and a negative, depending on who you're. talking to, that process just takes a bit longer. there's no one really stopping trump in this moment. and so i, i'm not necessarily sure we're going to see the white house come out and explain. themselves as. to why

exactly they're moving at the. >> rate they're moving. >> without sort of institutional consensus and support. >> all right. let's go global. over the weekend, vice president jd vance criticized germany and other european countries for silencing far right groups. groups like the afd, which some have compared to neo-nazis in germany. and i want to share how germany's chancellor responded to vp vance's comments over the weekend. watch this. >> we really reject. >> any idea of cooperation between. >> parties. other parties. >> and this. >> extreme right parties. >> i think there. >> is a strong. >> consensus between. >> all relevant. >> parties in. >> germany that. >> they won't do so. >> i hope this will last and. >> continue. >> but it. >> is absolutely sure. >> and necessary. >> to say it is not. >> others to give us the advice. >> to cooperate. >> with these. >> parties. which. >> we are not working with for

good reasons, especially when looking to the history of our country. >> tom, what does this tell you? what does this signal of the early international reaction to president trump 2.0? >> well, first, i think vance, much like trump over the weekend with that quote, there's a kind of trollish ness to what they're doing. they're purposely trying to be inflammatory and attention seeking. and, you know, vance and his team and others have to know this, that criticizing the internal politics of your allies is, is really something that that good allies don't do. but i think what you're going to see now is that our allies are saying, okay, the first trump administration, we could write that off as a fluke. now, now, this is no fluke. this is the real world we're living in. the americans are capable of doing this, basically the american electorate by a tiny razor's edge is capable of, you know, jumping off the cliff when it

comes to foreign policy. and you're seeing them push back to say, you know, american leadership is not something that is given by the grace of god. americans have been our leaders for 80 years in the global community for good reason and because of our long history together. but if the americans want to throw that away, then they will push back and remind the united states that they too, are sovereign countries with their own interests. but i also think it's remarkable to have a german chancellor having to remind an american vice president about why cooperating with, you know, far right parties is bad. i mean, it's really an embarrassing moment for the united states, but it was i think it was the right thing for the german chancellor to point out. >> melanie, it's been widely reported for years. donald trump has been looking to pull back support from ukraine and the administration, just in the last week, now tried to get ukraine to sign over half of its mineral

resources in exchange for u.s. support. obviously, ukraine said no, but did anyone at the white house really think this would work? i mean, this idea, no, donald trump is not in the corner of ukraine. unless, of course, we can make some money off of it. >> well, that was the thinking. i talked to some republicans on background. of course, they didn't want to go on the record, but just their thinking they were pushing for ukraine support. they know this is going to be an uphill battle in this new administration. and some of the thinking here was that if there was a financial incentive or a financial investment, there was something that trump would be interested in, that perhaps he would be more invested in the success of ukraine and providing critical aid. the issue with, i think this specific deal and why zelensky rejected it, is because it was really unclear whether that was going to pertain to if he agreed to 50% of their mineral resources, whether that was going to be for past u.s. support or if it was going to be guarantees and ties for future

aid. i think that was the open question here. zlotsky in the past has shown some openness to leveraging some of their resources in these negotiations with allies. so it wasn't completely unprecedented to see this offer. but i do think big picture here, it is going to be a huge challenge for this congress, this administration to pass ukraine aid. it is a new world order. as you saw in munich, it was maga munich. and so i just i'm very skeptical that they're going to be able to get anything through to ukraine aid in this congress. >> melanie. thank you jackie. thank you tom. great to see you again. but before we go to break, we want to be sure we are staying on top of the breaking news in toronto, canada tonight. at least 18 people were hurt when a delta plane overturned during the landing at toronto international airport. a total of 80 people were on board. officials say the injuries were relatively minor. the plane was headed to toronto from minneapolis. it was snowing at the time of the crash, but a strong, gusty wind was blowing

the snow all over the ground while crews rushed to evacuate the passengers. the windchill is negative two. when we come back, elon musk and his doge squad want access to an irs system that holds your sensitive data. my big question what exactly are they looking for? what are they going to do with it? and later, how the new head of the dnc wants to get the party out of d.c. and reconnect with voters? the 11th hour just getting underway on a monday night. >> climbing up on solsbury hill, i could see the city light. my heart going boom, boom, boom. hey, he said, grab your things. i've come to take you away. oh come on, take me home. back home. so come on deck me. so

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>> it is time now for money, power, politics, and we're digging deeper into the doj's effort to access personal taxpayer data at the irs, raising concerns inside and outside of the agency. congressman jimmy gomez, put it this way, quote, this is a five alarm warning. elon musk has been after your personal financial info from day one. his actions are illegal and a blatant power grab. let's discuss with pulitzer prize winning investigative reporter and tax expert david cay johnston. he is also a professor at rochester institute of technology and wrote three books on president trump and zoe schiffer joins us director of business and industry for wired, which has been breaking every possible story on the ins and outs of doge. she wrote the book extremely hardcore inside elon musk's twitter. david, you are our tax expert. how concerned are you about doge getting

access to this data? what on earth does this data have to do with rooting out fraud and waste? >> well, it has nothing to do with rooting out fraud and waste, but combining access to the irs records with access to the treasury department payment system and maybe that huge refund that donald trump was held up on because, as he told us many times, he was being audited. maybe that will get paid now. this will compromise. >> david. >> well, pardon my cynicism here, stephanie. but also, once these people have their illegal access to the irs data, it could complicate any criminal prosecutions over the integrity of the data. chain of evidence, sorts of issues. and it would allow them to target people. well, we're going to slow walk or not make your refund available to you. we're going to alter records to take care of

our friends. that would be another possibility. and there's just no reason at all to have this access. even irs commissioners and deputy commissioners don't have access to this data. >> so, zoe, what does those looking for at the irs, what do they say their goal is? or what do you think it is? >> you know, they say they're looking. >> for fraud and waste, but the access that they have been seeking at these agencies goes way beyond that. >> as we said earlier. >> and so. >> i think that there's. >> real concern. >> you know. >> at twitter. they use access to private information. >> or. >> you. >> know, somewhat sensitive information to make twitter's former leadership look bad. >> to. make outside. researchers who. >> work with the company. >> look bad. >> and that was just twitter data that wasn't nearly as sensitive. >> so i think. >> there's real concern about. >> what is going. >> on here. >> david, they obviously want you to believe that waste is everywhere you look. but i want to share what former usaid administration and a republican

had to say about their actions on 60 minutes. >> the most accountable aid agency in the world is usaid. >> i've written. >> actually widely on this subject. >> 40% of. >> the. >> staff are. accountants and lawyers and people trying. >> to make. >> sure no money. >> is stolen. >> we've created. >> systems to monitor that. what they did was they went. back 20 years to try to find things. >> if you have. >> to go back 20. >> years to find abuse, that means there isn't that much abuse. >> david, what do you think? >> well, i think that the attack on u.s. aid is going to come back to haunt us because this very carefully monitored system and there are abuses out there, things like warlords who say, give us cash or we're not going to let your medicine and food go through. private relief agencies will tell you stories about that. but we've corralled some viruses that are incredibly more dangerous than covid 19, and the corrals have just been knocked down. and sooner or later, those

pernicious viruses, they're going to hopscotch around the planet on jetliners and people are going to die, including here in america. this has nothing to do with waste, fraud and abuse. if you want to save the government money, we're going to spend two and a half times the budget of usaid and american jobs program, by the way, on interest on tax cuts for the super rich under donald trump's 2017 tax overhaul. >> i need you to say that last part one more time for the audience to hear. >> we're spending over $100 billion a year just on interest, on the money we borrowed for the taxes not paid by the richest one and a thousand families and the large corporations they control. if you want to save money, that's where you would go. you wouldn't go after the poorest people in the world, and certainly not with the richest man in the world denying them food and medical care that protects americans from pernicious viruses.

>> zoe. meanwhile, a judge has extended the order that's blocking doge from treasury data. what's the latest there? >> yeah. so as you said right now, a us judge has extended the temporary restraining order. >> but this really is. just a temporary measure. so we. should be getting a final. decision very soon. >> in the interim. >> i. think there is. widespread concern. >> about whether doge will actually comply with this. >> order and what. >> to do about. >> the sensitive. >> information that they. >> have already accessed. >> david, in court, the justice department lawyer is like downplaying musk's authority over the government, saying the doge team is answering to the treasury department a. do you buy that? and b what's happened to us? because it wasn't that long ago that people took issue with the likes of a hank paulson, going from being ceo of goldman sachs to treasury secretary, and the fact that he'd get a tax benefit, they didn't have to face capital gains tax when he sold his stock immediately. why is it that can you imagine today if we had

someone as the ceo of goldman sachs, also acting in the capacity of what elon musk is doing with doge, why is it that we're somehow okay with this now? >> i don't think we're okay with it. i think the problem is that what do you do about it is the most common thing i'm hearing, including when i was on capitol hill last week talking to some senior members of congress. the reality is that if any other president had done this. imagine if barack obama had allowed this. there would be absolute fury going on in capitol hill. and instead the republican party controls both chambers, and they are all afraid of donald trump, to the point that i've taken to calling them quislings. that is, they are not supporting of the constitution and our people. they are quislings. and we should be very worried about this. the reason you flood the zone with more than 100 executive orders, a number of which have interesting little things i'm finding buried in

them because i'm reading some of them, is to overwhelm, to paralyze your opposition and leave people not knowing what to do. >> well, look at zoe's reporting and her colleagues at at wired. they're not overwhelmed. you're not overwhelmed? i'm not overwhelmed. we're going to keep on covering it. thank you all so much for being here tonight. when we return after a loss in 2024, democrats have an opportunity to rebrand their party. but some say they're missing the point, or at least missing the moment. and it's got some liberal donors at least pausing their wallets. we're going to explain why on the other side of the break. >> the guy made a lift. >> into the river. >> there you go. >> hey. >> you got that thing? >> yeah, you got that thing. >> throw it in the fridge. >> oh. >> what's this? you keep dog food in the fridge? >> it's not dog food. it's fresh. >> pet. real meat. real veggies. >> from my boy junior. >> disrespect. >> but what. >> are we doing here?

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we have more than nuts, but still the website is just nuts.com. >> the first thing we need. >> to. >> do is we need to stand up. >> if. >> we're not willing. to right now resist donald trump and jd vance and elon musk when the stakes are so high for the american people, how in the hell are anyone in this country going to believe that we would stand up and fight for them if they put us back in power? >> newly elected democratic national committee chair ken martin has an uphill battle ahead of him. the party has yet to present a show of force in the early days of the second trump administration, and some are concerned that they're missing the moment to remake the party after their loss in 2024. joining me now to discuss teddy schleifer with the new york times. he covers campaign finance and how billionaires influence american politics. here's the answer in a big, big way. and tim miller, host of the bulwark podcast and the former communications director for

republican jeb bush, tim martin, is kicking off his party leadership with this multi-state tour to get the dnc out of dc. what do you think about it? >> hey, steph. well, in part, i think it's good. >> i think that the instinct to go. >> into well. >> i mean. >> i think the instinct. >> to go into communities. >> is good, right? >> and to be outside of dc, that's. >> positive. >> to have. >> local press. >> events, to find. >> real people. >> that are. >> being impacted by. >> the trump administration. >> that instinct is good. the thing. >> is. >> it's just. >> not enough, right? when you go through. >> all of those headlines. >> that you went through. and even when you hear. >> the new chairman. >> speak himself. >> like what people. >> are yearning. >> for is. >> is volume, is leadership is intensity. and while i understand. >> the strategy of saying. >> oh, we should go to the green bay media market and do something there, i they need. >> to be. >> everywhere all the time, all at once. and like elon and trump are everywhere. and i understand it's hard to compete with somebody that has his own media platform and someone who's the

president, but they've got to at. >> least try. >> and i think that the effort to date has, has not kind of been up to the challenge. >> teddy, i want to talk about your reporting that liberal donors are pulling donations for two reasons. because of lack of strategy thus far from democrats, but more importantly because of fear of retribution from trump. what can you tell us? >> yeah, this came up in almost every conversation we had for that piece. there is a deep concern that donald trump will retaliate. and to be frank, trump has said he will retaliate. he said during the campaign that he believed he would go after the deep state and the enemies, including, you know, not just reporters but also liberal donors and, you know, anybody who spent any money to go to help kind of go after trump during the first term. and these donors take him seriously. you know, we know that there are wealthy people who are moving their foundations from democratic, from republican states to democratic states, moving assets overseas. some people have even moved overseas

themselves. so from all of our conversations, there's been a chilling effect. i think lots of wealthy people are scared, and that contributes to kind of a lack of public leadership that we're seeing right now. because even if trump doesn't do anything and who knows if he actually will. this, this, this doubt has been introduced where every move that a liberal billionaire takes today could be scrutinized more so than it would be under a president romney or a president cruz. and trump is winning to that extent because he has kind of wealthy givers, fearful. >> tim seems like a fair fear. i not really i'm sorry if you're a rich enough person to be able to spend six, seven figures on political campaigns like you have a big moat around you and you should really, frankly, be using your resources and your platform to help people that are an actual threat from this administration. and people working for usaid or losing their jobs, immigrants, people

that are here, even those who are here legally or who have family members who are here illegally, are under threat. we could just go down the whole list of all the people that are actually in threat from the trump administration right now. it's not a bunch of rich donors. and i do think that there has been this kind of concern that trump will go after people as being used as an excuse for people to not actually put themselves on the line and speak out and speak clearly about the threats that this administration is posing. and, and, and i'm frankly kind of tired of hearing of hearing it. i think that there are a lot of people higher up on the list of threat than than rich democratic donors. >> tim, it's funny that you say this because i spent the last four days in san francisco with a whole lot of wealthy people, and i kind of heard the same thing or things like, well, listen, i'm not crazy about elon musk, but the government is too fat. let's just see what happens. why is it that so many

folks right now are in this space of, let's see what happens if you're super wealthy, nothing is going to happen to hurt you. but if you are the slightest bit vulnerable or marginalized, this could be devastating for you. >> yeah, i don't know how much more people need to see. you know, they've come into administration and act completely illiberal. i mean, there have been multiple people that have had to quit at the department of justice, federal prosecutors. i mean, like, honestly had the danielle sassoon letter happened during any other presidency besides trump, we would be having impeachment conversations already about why the president or his officials are bullying. you know, federal prosecutors into being part of a quid pro quo that just by the letter of the law, just look at the danielle sassoon letter is illegal. so, you know, i don't know how much more you need to see. he's been erratic. we're are we're meeting with russia

tomorrow in saudi arabia. and our democratic ally in ukraine isn't invited to be at the table. i just think across a bunch of verticals like we've seen, that this is going to be a lawless administration, and i think that folks should should decide that it's time to speak out about it. >> and we'd be a-okay if ukraine signed over their natural resources and minerals to us. there's that one, too, teddy. this donor class, these democratic donors, what would they like to see from democrats right now? because let's be honest, it's been just barely a month since donald trump is in office. and i know they're they're frustrated that democrats don't have a unified message yet, but it is going to take a beat. >> yeah. look, i mean, i don't think that anyone is expecting, you know, george soros to be, you know, out there in the streets, kind of leading, leading the resistance here. but, you know, i think they want to see the same thing that, frankly, voters want to see. right? they want to see, you know, a strong message. they want to see it delivered by a messenger. they want to see it,

you know, getting led on the target and sort of being, you know, focused on on the right thing. i think we often talk about these people like they're kind of, you know, these, these strange alien creatures, that they are human beings who respond to incentives and respond to a good speech or a good television hit or whatever. i think what what candidates want to see is they want to see these institutions that are part of the democratic party and part of the progressive movement kind of have enough money to last until, you know, 2026 or 2028. clearly, like, i mean, i think that the words that come up a lot are people are checked out. these wealthy people, in fact, some of them are not watching the news or, or be engaging in civic life in the way they were in 2017. so that's another way. they're just like regular people. and i think the challenge for the democratic party right now is like, if you can't get george soros excited about, you know, ken martin or about, you know, fighting trump, then, you know, what do you say to a middle class voter in milwaukee who is checked out as

well? >> all right then, gentlemen, thank you both so much. when we return, in honor of presidents day, donald trump quoted napoleon. you know, the french emperor. i'm going to need historian jon meacham to explain that one to us. he joins us next. >> imagine a switch that could wipe your personal data off the internet with one click. incogni. stops identity thieves and protects your privacy. turn on one switch to limit unwanted robocalls. and spam emails. >> and to reduce. >> exposure to data breaches. switch on peace of mind. go incognito and get 55% off today. >> a heart attack. >> do they have life insurance? >> no. >> but we have life insurance. john. >> i'm trying to find something we can afford. >> fortunately, in only. >> a few minutes. selectquote

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of one often attributed to napoleon, but the origin is still unclear. so on this president's day, i want to welcome our favorite presidential historian, jon meacham, to hopefully make some sense for us. jon, you got to help us, president trump placed this first on his own social media platform, truth social, and he liked it so much he then took it to x. what do you think he's trying to tell us here, john? >> oh, i think it's pretty clear. i don't think there's much mystery. now, as we enter our 10th year or so of america held hostage to this remarkable force that is has the capacity to reshape more or less permanently, certainly for generations, an institution, the american presidency, that depends in many ways on not just on the letter of the law, but on the spirit of the law, who we

send to that job matters enormously. to state the bleedingly obvious. it matters because the entire history of the presidency is an expansion of power. you can make a case for almost anything for a president to have the power to do x or y, given precedent. but if that's why character matters, because the person there needs to be someone who has a capacity for self-restraint. and i think the country certainly heard that argument three times now in national elections. and on two of those occasions chose something different. >> he also suggested that surviving two assassination attempts is evidence that he has divine divine backing to enforce his will. have we ever seen this

from any american president? >> when president reagan was wounded in an assassination attempt in march of 1981, he later in a very famous, arguably one of the most fabled political productions, an introductory film that ran at the 1984 republican national convention. very quaint to think about this, the networks debated about whether they could run this because it felt like a free ad. this was 1984, and the ultimately the republicans said, well, this is our introduction. so they ran it. and president reagan did say that there had been a lot of coincidences and that any time he has been his survival and that any time he had left belongs to someone else. and he pointed, pointed up again, it's character. it's not

the it's not the experience for whatever you want to say about ronald reagan. he was not going to behave this way, and he was not going to possibly walk away from a country under decisive invasion by moscow. its character. and so one of the questions we have to answer, and for a while, we have a pretty provisional answer, and we've talked about this before, is to what extent is the character of a president, a maker of who we are, and to what extent is that character a mirror of who we are? my conviction is that president trump represents many of the forces that we would do much better to try to have them ebb instead of flow. >> i have to ask you about the shakeup at the national archives, the acting archivist,

the senior staff forced out. trump has been furious with the agency ever since they wanted to recover documents he brought to mar a lago. this is a nonpolitical, independent agency. somebody like me doesn't think about the national archives. somebody like you. it's your disney world. how concerned are you about what's happening? it is. it is your disney world. >> it's yesterday land. you're exactly right. it's nonpartisan archives. it's the collective memory of the country. it is hard to describe how valuable it is from the somewhat sentimental, the original, the constitution and the declaration to the most obscure papers you can possibly imagine that are only obscure until they seem important. and one of the things about history is history is shaped not least by what the

present and the future, what the stories we choose to tell. and we can't tell those stories without the evidence and the most, the most gloomy. the gloomiest thing about this is that this is about fact. it's not about opinion. it is a document. it is on a page or it is on an email. it's on a pdf, it's there. and to politicize that and introduce it to this alice in wonderland world we're having where opinion and falsehood matters more than fact, is particularly depressing. >> well, facts matter. so we're going to have to tell them every single night. john, great to see you. happy president's day. >> thank you. >> well, presidents day is not the only holiday happening. how you can honor and celebrate a cause near and dear to my heart. you don't wan do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate

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>> the last thing before we go tonight. it's random acts of kindness day. the day was founded as an opportunity to connect and lift each other up with thoughtful gestures that can spark joy, inspire change, and create a lasting impact. as author leo buscaglia once said, too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. so my request. let's make every day random acts of kindness day. remember, it costs nothing to be kind and it can change someone's life. and on that note, i wish you a very good note night from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news. thanks for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow.