out of the water. >> yeah. and i also think, of course, as we talk about regularly, the idea of the lack of transparency around doge is really important. doing things like this, announcing things like this only makes people have more questions, and really underscores the need for more transparency from the white house. >> the doge cloud. >> the doge cloud. nbc's jonathan allen with that. thank you. and that was way too early for this tuesday morning. morning joe kicks off right now. >> good morning and welcome to morning joe. >> it is. >> tuesday february 18th. we've got a lot to. >> get to. >> this morning. >> including the. >> diplomatic talks between u.s. and russian officials. happening now in saudi arabia. >> nbc's keir simmons is there. and standing by to bring us. >> the very latest. >> also ahead, we'll. go through yesterday's. >> plane crash. in toronto, where, miraculously. everyone on

board survived. after a. >> delta jet flipped over. >> on the runway. it comes as the trump. >> administration continues. >> its move to gut. >> the federal. >> workforce. >> including employees at the faa. plus, we'll bring you an update on the fallout inside the new york city mayor's office over the justice department's. move to dismiss corruption charges. against mayor. >> eric adams. with us. >> we have the co-host. >> of the. >> fourth hour and contributing writer at the atlantic, jonathan lemire. >> the host. >> of way too early. ali vitali. >> pulitzer prize. winning columnist. >> and associate editor of the. >> washington post. eugene robinson. is with us. >> msnbc political. analyst anand giridharadas. >> he's publisher. >> of the newsletter the ink, available on substack, and columnist and associate editor for the washington post. david ignatius. >> is. >> with us here in washington. >> and we begin with the

diplomatic talks. >> between u.s. and russian. >> officials in. saudi arabia. secretary of state marco rubio is meeting right now. >> with a russian delegation led by. >> foreign minister sergey lavrov. the group is supposed to discuss. options for. >> ending russia's. invasion of ukraine. but the talks have drawn criticism for not including. any ukrainian officials. this is. a first face to face meeting between a u.s. secretary of. state and their russian counterpart since january of 2022. meanwhile. >> leaders from across europe. >> met in paris yesterday to. >> align their. >> position on. >> ukraine after. >> being excluded from the talks between. the united states and russia. >> hosted by. >> french president emmanuel macron. >> the leaders of the u.k, the. >> e.u. and germany were in attendance, among others. macron spoke with president trump

before the meeting. he then. later spoke with ukrainian president zelenskyy. >> who posted. >> on social media saying macron. >> had briefed him. >> on what. >> was discussed. the meeting of europe's leaders. comes as concerns. >> rise over today's. >> talks in. >> saudi arabia between russian and. >> u.s. officials. >> and joe, i guess a lot of concern exactly about how these. >> talks are going down. >> well. >> yeah. >> a lot of concern about. >> how. >> the talks are going. >> down. >> and deja. >> vu all over again. >> as yogi berra would say, going back to the first trump. >> administration, when. >> at some point angela merkel just told other european. >> leaders. >> we're just not going to be able to depend. >> on the united states anymore. >> and that's right. now what eu leaders. and zelensky are starting. >> to believe. let's bring in nbc. >> news chief international correspondent keir simmons. he's live from the saudi arabian capital. keir, what. >> can you. >> tell us?

>> well, joe, we caught up with minister lavrov, the russian foreign minister here at the ritz-carlton hotel a few hours ago. he was tight lipped. the delegations are staying here, but the meetings are happening in a saudi arabian palace near to here, convened by the crown. >> prince and. >> the saudi arabian. >> foreign minister. >> there is a shot of the delegations sitting opposite. each other at a table, looking fairly. >> sober. >> as certainly they should do, because these are going to be very, very. >> difficult talks. >> they are. >> formal talks. >> albeit hastily organized. >> they seem to change. >> that. >> they. >> will take place. >> that the time. >> seemed to change. the location has seemed to change, but they are now underway that the pool team that are there for. >> the talks. >> say they've been happening now for. >> around 2.5 hours with. >> a 15 minute. >> break that the. >> the two. sides plan to break

for lunch. what they are. >> talking about. >> is an interesting question. >> one of them. >> here, kirill dmitriev, who's not at that table. >> but but he is. >> here at us. officials believe that he is close to president putin's daughter. he is, if you like. i mean, president trump has envoys. he is, if you like, one of president putin's envoys. he is here very clearly talking about wanting sanctions to be lifted. he himself is sanctioned by the united states. and there i think you. have an example. >> of what the. >> russians are are really looking for. they are looking. to try to end russia's isolation, as. >> well as. >> president trump saying that he wants to try to. >> end the war. >> in ukraine. >> as you mentioned. >> president zelenskyy is not here. he is in turkey saying last night. >> that ukraine. >> will simply not agree to anything, agreed at a meeting that ukraine is not part of. there have been reports that he would come here to saudi arabia

tomorrow. we don't. >> know whether. >> that is the case. certainly there will be no signs. sign of the europeans here. you mentioned that meeting in paris yesterday. i mean, frankly, european leaders in disarray, unable to agree again, even whether they would be prepared to send troops into ukraine to. try to sustain any kind of ceasefire, if there. >> is one, i should say, the. >> trump administration. >> being clear. >> that these. >> that this is. >> a test, if you like, that they're going to see how. >> serious the. >> russians are. >> and i was going to ask you here about the. >> if there's. any method to. >> what. appears to our european. allies to be madness, excluding the ukrainians from these talks. have you talked to. >> any u.s. >> officials or russian. >> officials that have. >> said this is step one? we're going to. see if. >> if there. >> there's a. broad outline. >> on what we. >> could negotiate and. >> then have. >> the ukrainians brought in. or

is all. >> this being done on a very. >> ad hoc basis? i think it's fair to call it joe, a work in progress. certainly there are developments. >> aren't there? >> this is historic. it's extraordinary, honestly. i mean, let's keep in mind these are the first formal talks between the us, between us and russia officials since the russia's illegal invasion of ukraine. i should say that, though, that president. trump's envoy on ukraine and russia, keith kellogg, gave a briefing last night in which he said that he will be in ukraine this week for three days and that he intends to go back and back and a bipartisan delegation from the hill are in europe right now, trying to calm nerves in kyiv and other european capitals, saying, of. course ukraine will be at the table. the question, though, of course, is what exactly the us is negotiating

right. >> now with the. >> russians behind closed doors. you had the defense. >> the secretary of defense. >> pete hegseth, saying in that speech to nato. >> that the. >> potential for ukraine to be in nato is not on the table. that even if there is some kind of a security force. >> it would have. >> to be europeans and non europeans, not the us, and it couldn't. >> be covered under. >> article five, which. >> is of course. >> that all sides defend each other. article in the nato agreement. so that seemed to be giving a lot of ground to the russians. just one other point again though. >> a counterpoint to that. >> i mentioned that the russians are here clearly arguing that sanctions should be lifted. the heavy sanctions on russia are an enormous piece of leverage that the us has. another point. >> to wrap up to. >> joe, just to say, of course, these divisions between europe and the states. >> well. >> the europeans have sanctions on. >> russia too. so if you want

to. >> lift sanctions on russia. >> somewhere down the. >> line, you need the europeans to help. all right. >> nbc's keir. >> simmons in saudi arabia, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. you know david, we're talking about. >> the fault lines. we're talking about the. >> fault lines that are. >> running obviously through. >> the eu. >> on the response. >> to the united. >> states. >> also between. >> the. >> eu and the united. >> states because of this, when it comes to ukraine. >> and coming to. the possibility of. >> a peace deal. without the. ukrainians being a big. >> part of it. there are also fault lines in. >> the republican party. >> will remember back. >> to. >> the first trump. >> administration. >> where donald trump would say things in. >> helsinki. >> and it would seem. >> that the republicans in the u.s. senate would go the extra mile. >> to make the sanctions even tougher. >> on. vladimir putin. >> i have. in my reporting, and i'm sure in your reporting. >> while it seems republicans have acquiesced to. donald trump. >> in so many ways. >> i will. >> say. >> the hard. >> liners and there are a lot of

them in the. >> us senate. as well as in. >> the in the house. they still. >> feel the same that. >> ukraine has. >> to. >> be a. >> part of this process. >> and. >> putin can be given no gifts. >> by this administration. >> what are you hearing? >> so i'm hearing. >> the same thing. >> i think for many republicans. >> ukraine remains a red line. >> senator lindsey. >> graham. >> president trump's. >> golf buddy. >> sometimes described as the trump whisperer, told. >> me in munich. >> over the. weekend that a. >> bad deal. >> on ukraine would be the biggest mistake. >> for the united. >> states since the. end of. >> the second world war. >> he's trying very hard to. >> keep trump. >> from making the kind of concessionary deal to. >> putin that. >> would mark a radical shift. >> my sense. >> joe, is that the. >> conversations that. >> are. >> taking place. >> today in saudi arabia are, as. russian officials have said, more. >> about the normalization of

relations between the us. >> and russia. >> after these three years of complete. antagonism than anything else. there are many. >> issues at that, at. that superpower. >> level that are crucial to russia. >> the sanctions. >> is part of it. but think of all the billions, the hundreds of billions. >> of dollars. >> in russian. >> assets that are being. >> held outside. >> of russia, russian control. that would be at the. >> top of. >> the list that you'd want to have us russian conversations about. the worry is. that what is really going. >> on is making a deal behind. >> ukraine's back that will then be imposed on ukraine by the us and russia. that would that. >> would be dreadful. >> we'll have to see if that's. >> what's what's. >> in store. >> yeah. >> that's what i've been. >> told as well. >> real alarm from european diplomats. >> that yes. >> even if on the surface, what we're seeing today in riyadh. >> is more about. >> us russia relations. >> of course. they believe that a. >> ukraine deal. >> could become part of. >> this. >> that some. parameters could be sketched out. and obviously

zelensky and his emissaries not at the table. >> i'm also told, yes. >> that. >> there's been a. >> little bit of republican. pushback we heard. >> in the. >> last. >> couple of. >> days from republican senators suggesting not outright criticism of trump, but sort of perhaps warnings, saying, well, we need to get a deal here. ukraine should be included and includes senator thom tillis, who is in kyiv with a couple other senators yesterday echoing that. but i'm told. >> the trump. administration itself. >> like they're not really listening to that. yes. will, is it possible? >> yes. >> but they also. >> feel like at this. >> point they have. >> so. >> much momentum and political capital. if they want to make a deal, they'll ignore the senate. they're not going to kowtow to what the gop leaders want. they're in the upper chamber. and we know, mika, certainly. i've been told again over the weekend how much president trump. prizes this. >> relationship with. >> russian president. >> putin, that he wants to be seen as the one restoring ties with moscow, concerned that they are the other nuclear superpower, that he wants that to be part of his legacy to

normalize those. relations again. and it's and it could be that ukraine is just sort of a small piece of a much larger puzzle. >> for him. >> we'll be. >> following that. and before we get to our next topic of the. >> trump administration. >> firing several hundred federal aviation. administration employees, let's cover the flip over crash, whatever you want to call it. 18 people injured after a plane overturned upon landing at the toronto pearson international airport yesterday. this is the moment a delta airlines flight. >> with. >> 80 people on. >> board from minneapolis ended. >> upside down. >> on the runway. emergency workers on the. >> scene raced to. >> evacuate passengers. two passengers, believed. >> to be. >> in critical. >> condition. >> were airlifted to a nearby trauma center, while one child was rushed to a children's hospital. several others. sustained minor injuries. >> here is cell. >> phone video that captured the chaotic scene. >> there you can see crew.

>> members helping passengers. >> escape through. >> emergency exits. >> snow was. >> blowing at the airport all day, but snow was not supported on radars radars at the time of the accident. the fire chief stated that the runway was dry and there were no crosswind conditions. when the delta plane overturned. >> incredibly. >> no deaths reported. >> here is how one passenger. recounted the crash. >> when we. >> hit. >> it was just a super hard like hit the ground and the plane went sideways and i believe we skidded, like on our side and then flipped over on our back. >> where we ended. >> up. >> there was like a big fireball out this left side of the plane. and when we got finished, it was i was upside down. everybody else was there as well. thankfully, everybody was okay, but we tried to get out of there as quickly as possible.

>> thankfully. >> thankfully, everybody was okay. >> mika i mean. >> but. >> this following up on what you were saying. >> earlier today. >> i mean, there are. >> obviously earlier this morning, there's. >> obviously great concern. >> about the. >> safety of. >> flying right. >> now given the. >> accidents that have happened. the federal aviation. >> administration said the washington. >> post this morning. >> let go. >> hundreds of technicians and engineers. >> just weeks after a midair collision. >> miles from. >> the. white house killed. >> 67 people. >> eliciting promises from trump officials to improve. >> air safety. >> workers said in interviews. >> it's something we've been talking about on this show since covid, since. >> after. >> covid. and something that. >> we've been hearing about and reporting on. and of course, this is this was in toronto. it originated. of course, in in minnesota. >> in the us. >> but but. >> you know. >> you have. >> the accident in washington dc. and then there are these

immediate claims of die, which of course, and immediate claims on who's at fault. nobody knows. that's why we have. >> ntsb, and. >> that's why a lot. >> of those investigations. >> can take. >> up to years. >> but we said following covid we had a pilot shortage. they're hiring a lot of very young pilots right now, getting rid of a lot of because of age limits of a lot of experienced pilots. we were talking about how that was really a terrible mistake, but also talked about our concerns with all of the shortages, including shortages. >> at the. >> faa, including shortages. >> that we had. >> up in the towers. >> with with air. >> traffic controllers. i mean, this is a system that actually needs to be built upon post covid. and here we are, three, 4 or 5 years later. this is not the time to cut from the faa. and that's the problem when you have this this one size fits all approach. >> you know. >> the argument that government

is wasteful. and yes, there's waste, fraud and abuse. gene robinson. waste, fraud and abuse in all parts of and all parts of government. we've been saying that for 30 years. i've been saying that for 30 years. republicans have been saying that for 30 years. democrats have been saying that for. 30 years. al gore said it. you know, in 2000. but this is not the time to just go in with anything other than a scalpel. when you're talking about agencies like the faa and just getting rid of getting rid of people. >> for a political statement. >> yeah, i believe. >> there's one federal worker quoted. in in our story this morning as saying, this is like trying to trim away, getting a steak and trying to trim away the fat with a sledgehammer. it's ridiculous. >> and. >> dangerous, frankly, because especially when. you're talking about something like aviation. but this is happening all over the government, the sort of

indiscriminate firings of probationary employees, basically, who haven't been there long enough to have full civil service protections, which can be a year or more. and without regard to their performance or or what their function is or how much they're needed, it is a mess. and it is going to take some time to, to straighten out. you saw the other day that that doge got rid of a bunch of the workers who are responsible for our nuclear weapons and making making them safe, and then had to quickly try to rehire them because they shouldn't have been fired in the first place. this is and i think that's happening all over the government waste, fraud and abuse. yes, but do it. do it

with a scalpel, not a sledgehammer. >> and lawfully. >> we're going to get to on on more on this. but first let's talk about the crash. >> itself. >> and this issue with nbc news aviation analyst john cox. he's a former pilot and accident investigator with more than 20 years experience. on the topic of the faa firings, the union says these firings didn't account for the already understaffed workforce, mission critical needs and public safety. >> do you have any insight. >> you may. not as to whether or not these firings could impact. >> safety. >> within the faa? >> i think from what i've heard, some of the people that were released were maintenance workers. >> we have. >> an older system within the us. as far. >> as the. >> the electronics, the radar systems and so forth, and it requires a lot of maintenance. so i'm a little concerned that we have the number of

maintainers that we need. i think the impact would be not so much on safety. >> as capacity. >> so if the system can't accept all the airplanes that need to go. >> from one. >> city to another, it's going to have an operational impact. so i think there that's going to be the first place that we see anything. >> john, let's talk about the crash yesterday in toronto. and i think you'll remember, like me, we were probably about the same age. i always whenever i'm looking at gusts in the 30s. you know yesterday gusts up to 39 miles an hour. i go back to that 1980s crash in dallas fort worth, the wind shear crash that shoved the delta jet into the ground. i'm not saying this is the same thing. i'm just talking about windy conditions. and i'm always i'm always concerned about wind gusts. i saw wind gusts yesterday going up to 39 miles an hour yesterday. do you think that that could have been. >> as you. >> look at the facts and we're

of course, just seeing through a glass darkly right now, are you concerned primarily about wind or. possible ice on the runway? >> i don't think ice on the runway. toronto is an extremely good airport about snow removal, so i don't think we're going to see much in the way of ice problems there. as for the wind, it was gusty. it was windy. but these are conditions that professional pilots fly in regularly. the crosswind was there was some crosswind there. and but here again this these are skills that pilots have. we will learn what actually happened here. the fact that that right. >> wing is missing. >> i think is a very key element for the investigators to look at what caused that wing to come off and separate those. this airplane is a is a veteran airplane. it's been in service for decades. so it's well built. it's well certified. so what

happened here? i think we'll know in short order because i think they'll get the flight recorders, both of them. i think they'll get them today. >> i think it was a crj 900. and yeah, they have a very good safety record. i wanted i wanted to ask you, though, plane landing. could a plane like a canadian regional jet going down a runway landing. >> if it were hit. by 40 mile an hour. >> gust of wind, could that over itself? no no no no no no no. >> the fact that. >> when you. >> think about it, the airplane was landing in the neighborhood. >> of. >> about 120, 130 knots. so even. >> an 8. >> or 10 knot gust is not going to dramatically affect the lift on the wing asymmetrically. so, no, that in itself is not going to cause it. whether the wing dipped and potentially struck

the runway, that's something that's a possibility that they will look at. but here again, the bank angle will be recorded by the flight data recorder. and that will tell exactly what happened here. >> we'll talk. >> about how. >> difficult it is when pilot is landing. and let's say you have gusts 30, 35, 40 miles an hour. and they cut across the they cut across the runway. how difficult is it for. >> the pilot. >> to keep those wings parallel to the ground? is it possible that a wind gust. may have shoved one of the wings into the ground? >> i think that's something that they'll certainly look at when you are in a crosswind condition like this. and the gust were in the neighborhood of 10 to 15 miles an hour. the total wind was up about 40 miles an hour, but it was about 30 gusts to 40 in that range. so as you track down the toward the runway,

you're actually have the nose of the airplane pointed more into the wind so that the ground track is on the center line. as you get in right over the runway, you. align the nose of the airplane with the center line, and you'll lower the upwind wing down a little bit to help slow the wind from pushing you on sideways on the runway. and that's about the point where you touch down what happened here. we don't know yet, but that's and that is the time frame that the investigators are going to look at in depth. >> all right. nbc news aviation analyst john cox greatly appreciate it. thank you so much. my pleasure mika. >> all right. >> still ahead on. >> morning joe, the trump administration. >> is. planning to fire hundreds of high level homeland security department employees. nbc's julia. >> ainsley joins. >> us. >> with our new reporting on that. plus, there is a growing wave of resignations in new york city surrounding the justice

department's move. >> to. >> dismiss corruption charges against mayor eric adams. we'll have the latest on the legal saga, as governor kathy hochul weighs whether to remove. adams from office. you're watching from office. you're watching morning joe. we're back in 90s. businesses start small, but a lot of them take off. as your business grows, shipstation grows with you. so you can sync and manage all your orders... no matter how big you get. ♪♪ shipstation's custom automations maximize your team's time. plus, you get more carrier options, at the lowest possible rates. ♪♪ keep your business growing. head to shipstation.com to start your free trial today. ♪♪ a chewy order is on the way for (interrupted by dog)... (dog howls) roo. who can speak for himself. but can't shop for himself.

so when he gave his roo of approval of the food dad bought on chewy, dad put it on autoship. so it always gets delivered, right on roo's schedule. the flavor roo loves. the savings they love. (dog howls) for automatic delivery and 5% savings. for life with pets, there's chewy. pronamel clinical enamel strength can help us to keep our enamel for a lifetime. it's backed by science it is clinically proven to strengthen our teeth. i would recommend this toothpaste to everybody. it's really an amazing product. (♪♪) this is where you are. but this...is where you want to go. we give you the rewards and you choose where they'll take you. introducing the credit one bank wander american express card.

>> mayor adams is. >> to assist in immigration, which i was calling for since 2022 is if you drop the charges, that's quid pro quo. that's a crime. >> if he doesn't come through, i'll be back in new york city and we won't. >> be sitting. >> on a couch. i'll be in his office. >> up, up his butt saying, where. >> the hell is the agreement we came to? >> what agreement? that was mayor. >> what a paypal. >> wait, wait, did he. >> say that? >> did he say the quiet. >> part out loud? what? the agreement we had and. >> and the. >> the agreement. >> the what? >> the. without prejudice. >> yeah. okay. >> that was mayor eric adams. and you don't. >> see that. >> every day. >> do you? you don't see. >> that every day. remember threatening the mayor of new york city, who has just gotten his criminal charges dropped.

>> everyone okay without in the conversation, right? >> without. >> i wasn't. >> in that. >> prejudice saying basically, if he, you know, they they can bring the charges back. and people. >> were concerned. >> about a deal and talked about a deal. i wonder what that deal was like. transparency there. >> so again. >> what we just saw. was mayor eric adams and border czar. tom homan in a moment where a lot of people. >> say was quid. >> pro quo, playing out in real time. when both appeared on fox news friday. >> this has. >> four top officials in. >> the. >> new york. >> city mayor's office have resigned, and the. >> controversy over. >> the. >> justice department's. >> move to dismiss. >> corruption charges. >> against mayor eric. >> adams. >> the city's first deputy. >> mayor, and three other deputy. mayors all. >> announced they would leave city hall yesterday, a. significant blow. >> to adams. >> as the officials.

>> oversee much. >> of the operations. >> of the city's government. >> in a. >> statement, adams said he understood. >> their. >> decision and wished them well. he also clarified that all four deputy mayors will remain in place for now as a transition period. in response, new york state governor kathy hochul called for a meeting today to discuss. >> the mayor's future. >> the governor. >> does officially. >> have the authority to. >> remove a. >> mayor from office, but. >> those powers. >> have never been used in the state's history. >> in a statement. >> governor hochul noted the gravity of such a decision, writing in part overturning the will of the voters is a serious step that should not be taken lightly. >> that said, the alleged. >> conduct at city hall. >> that has been. >> reported over the past two. weeks is troubling and cannot be ignored. the mayor's office has been embroiled in controversy since last year, when mayor adams was indicted on federal bribery charges. he has

maintained his innocence. apparently, more charges were coming. anand, you have a new essay out just this morning on the ink entitled. home of the brave. >> really? >> and you write in part, quote this. as i write this, there are scattered and. >> inspiring examples. >> of bravery all around. us prosecutors, judges, even the occasional lawmaker. but in the main, we are proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are not the home of the brave. we are a country full of people smilingly capitulating. >> to a tyrant. >> you go on to write. maybe it. >> was always a mistake. >> to count on these big. >> institutions to. >> protect us. they haven't been for some time now. yes, there are a handful. of brave lawmakers. brave judges. brave media voices, brave others. but in general, it is now very clear after this first month that no one is coming. to save us. it's

time to take back our country, not only from this authoritarian nightmare, but also from the collaborators to insipid and weak and chicken. you know what? two skinless and boneless. >> to stand. >> up for us. so, anand, i don't know. >> if. >> you want to name names, but we have a lot of different things. going on and a lot of different directions. the story i just reported, mayor adams, new york city. we also have some very controversial nominations being voted on soon. and yet, as you said, it appears nobody really wants to stand up in unison and say no. >> yeah. i mean, first. >> of all, in the earlier clip, you. don't often hear quid pro quo and up. >> his butt. >> in the same conversation. >> so that's. >> the territory. >> we're now in. >> i noticed. >> latin and. english bilingual. >> you know. >> this is a moment. >> it's actually something the mayor. >> said, mayor adams. >> said. that got me thinking

about this essay. he used two simple words to describe what you. >> saw on that sofa. he said, i'm collaborating. i'm collaborating. now, i don't know personally if the mayor has a sense. >> of history, but. >> anybody who does. >> have a sense. >> of history and. >> is familiar with the history of authoritarianism around. >> the world knows that i'm. >> collaborating is a sentence with some meaning. >> and it. >> got me thinking about the idea of collaboration and the fact that the mayor, who for the sake of his own narrow freedom, tried to make a deal to turn this city that is a city made of immigrants, america's immigrant city, into a city home to trump's immigration raids. but but collaboration really is a broader metaphor. we're seeing it with newspaper owners who won't stand up to donald trump, or seeing it with companies that are settling lawsuits, frivolous lawsuits to appease donald trump to protect their wider commercial interests. we're seeing it with so many in in the

democratic so-called opposition, where except for a few, you know, exceptions like senator chris murphy and aoc and others, most democratic lawmakers turn out to have no spine. but that was not disclosed on their medical forms. and we're just seeing again and again and again, again with these scattered exceptions that are very important, some prosecutors and others, we're seeing that we're just not that brave a country in our core. and i think it's very it's a it's a different self-image than, than the self-image we have. i think americans think of themselves as brave. we think of ourselves as the country that stood up to authoritarianism and fascism in world war two and saved europe. we think of ourselves as, as as a country full of spine. and we are seeing again and again whether it's the mayor, whether it's leaders of media, whether it's ceos stripping out the diversity programs, throwing their own employees under the bus with his university leaders, not standing up for their faculty. this is a country going

boneless. and it's time, i think, for regular people to stand up, as they did yesterday in these 5051 protests across the country. it is time for regular people to stop counting on people with too much skin in the game to be brave. i think the bravery is going to come from below. >> well, i mean, anna, there's something that you've actually been saying for some time. it's something that you've been saying actually, before donald trump got reelected. it's something you said right after donald trump got reelected. the idea that. we're looking around, and that's the sense i get when people call or are when you. >> talk to. >> people. >> they're waiting for somebody to come down from above to save them from this. and nobody has answers that, that, you know, nobody's magically going to come down and take care of this. it's like you said, everybody is going to have to do it. everybody is going to have to stand up. i will say and honorable mention here, i thought the way that 60 minutes

handled their. >> situation. >> where they came out and said, here are the transcripts. we stand by. >> our reporting because of. >> course, there's a wall street journal editorial page. >> others say, of course. >> yeah, of course they'll. >> stand by their reporting because there's. >> nothing there. we'll see what. their corporate bosses do. >> but let's. >> look at general milley. here's a guy who had his portrait taken down at the pentagon, somebody that had his security taken away from him, despite the fact that he's at the top of the iranians hit list, along. >> with donald. >> trump because of soleimani's killing and where, i don't know, i maybe i missed this, but we've talked about it. we've spoken out about it. >> but why. >> is general mattis. where's mad dog mattis? i haven't heard him say anything. we're all the other generals. that served with

him, the admirals that. served with him. we're the people that served this man. >> you don't. >> become one of the highest ranking soldiers of your generation. without fighting a lot of fights, being in, in, in a lot of foxholes, either literally or figuratively. >> with a. >> lot of band of brothers and sisters. and yet the silence has been deafening from active duty. of course, they they have a harder problem. say anything. but even all the retired generals and admirals. that served with him through the years. silence. >> yeah, i think a lot of what we're learning is a lot of people think they're mad, mad dogs, but they have no bark, no bite and no claws, and they're actually just full of fear on the inside. they're wanting to collaborate. they're wanting to make deals. you know, i remember i took a i took a class on, on cinema under authoritarian regimes. i was in college a long

time ago. and what happened in all these movies was these these officials who were brave at the beginning. i remember this scene in one of these eastern european countries. someone was brave at the beginning, standing up, and then somehow a nice, lovely piece of meat came to their dinner table from, i guess, the leader of the regime. and that was enough. you know, you you wanted to have nice, nice things you gave in. we know from history that's what allows societies to go. we now know overnight elon musk's doge squad is has his fingers in our grandma's social security accounts. already got irs data. we are witnessing a full scale anti-constitutional coup by an unelected billionaire on the screen. elon musk. and we're just learning that maybe we got to amend the song because you can't be the land of the free if you're not willing to be the home of the brave.

>> yeah. >> so first on. >> the. >> on the adams. piece of this, this is the meeting. i'm told the governor has been sort of reluctant to have, you know, she is up for reelection next year, concerned about potentially alienating black voters in new york city. although adams his poll numbers have really plummeted among all groups in in recent in recent weeks. also some concern about, you know, it's always helpful for governor of new york state to have a weak new york city mayor. and of course, kathy hochul, we know, is concerned about doing anything that might help her political rival, andrew cuomo, who is widely expected to be jumping in the race to for mayor in the next few weeks. but this is something where this situation became untenable. and we've heard from reverend sharpton and other leaders in new york that simply right now and other elected officials saying that adams is simply beholden to the trump administration and can't put the interests of the citizens first. and, mika, we should also note this dynamic is, as i said, is happening at the federal level as well. joe mentioned 60 minutes and how well they handled that, that situation there. elon musk, you know,

yesterday, even as jd vance is complaining about the lack of free speech in europe and other places, what did elon musk do yesterday? he suggested that those in 60, those who worked for 60 minutes because of that interview we just talked about deserve lengthy prison sentences that there's, you know, the idea of violating free speech there. it's only applicable for him and his allies, it would appear, and not others. >> okay. and we continue. >> nbc news has learned the trump administration is. >> preparing to. >> fire hundreds of high level employees within the department of homeland security, three sources familiar with the matter say the administration has a, quote, centralized plan and a list of people in high level positions across every component of dhs who would be let go this week. the new firings would come in addition to hundreds of cuts that began across dhs on friday night. joining us now, nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. julia, what more can you tell us about this? >> well, mika.

>> this is separate. >> from what. >> we've been talking. >> about with doj and. >> the big. >> push to try. >> to. >> really downsize. >> the federal government. >> this is a list that was identified by the transition team, and then the landing team of trump loyalists who came in to dhs, and they're looking even across ice and cbp as trump tries to make good on this campaign promise of mass deportations, what they want to do is take out high level employees. we know washington speak. they're called ses senior executive service. these are people in manager positions, policy people. >> strategy, people. >> who are coming up with how they're going to carry out the wishes of the administration. >> and their career. >> many of them served under the. first trump administration, served under biden, and they're still here now. but it's anyone who isn't seeing not only not obstinate, but someone who is not loyal to trump. and if they haven't gone far enough to show that loyalty, a lot of these people could now be fired. we understand that there are across every component. >> how do they show. >> their loyalty? >> like what? how do they assess this? >> if there's.

>> anything in a meeting where they feel like they're not on on the same page, if there's any suspicion they may have leaked, even if it's just a confirmation of something pretty basic to the media, there are a number of ways that they've come up with this list. if they don't think that they've told their subordinates to carry out the plans and the wishes, these are now people on this target list. >> so tell. >> me about what the impact of that actually is within the agency, and what are the career folks telling you as they watch their counterparts or even themselves on the chopping block here? >> you know, i've heard it's a really scary time, even for former people who stay in touch with their colleagues. they're told. >> look. >> i can't even have you on my phone records right now. there's such an insular place right now for people who want to keep their jobs and want to keep doing the jobs that they've been doing, and many times for, you know, more than ten years, even more than dhs has only been around since 2003. but a lot of people who really feel that they've devoted their careers to this and want to keep doing that, it's really similar to what we saw over the weekend, too. and immigration. >> judges were fired. >> it doesn't seem to make sense when you want a big scale

deportation force in this country, and you want more people out, why would. >> you get. >> rid of. >> the judges? why would you get. rid of people at ice and cbp? but the. >> idea here. >> is they want short term pain in order to have a long term gain of putting people in these positions. >> who. >> they think will make the decision. >> joe. >> yeah. and, david, i wanted. >> to. >> follow up. >> with what anna was saying, but also draw it into this conversation where we're talking about effective leaders being fired if they somehow don't pass some loyalty test. and again, the silence of. other people. that may have worked in that agency before not come to their defense. i talked about generals and general mattis, can you imagine, would have been unimaginable up until, you know, a. little less than a month ago that you would have the chairman of the joint chiefs, one of the most highly decorated generals of our generation. sacrificing time and again for this country, getting his portrait taken down, getting his security removed from him when he's the number

two target, i think right now for iran. >> because of the killing. >> of soleimani and dead silence. i've heard nothing from general mattis. i've heard nothing from other admirals. i've heard nothing. nothing collectively from. >> a group of. >> retired generals and admirals who you think would be the first people to come out and say, hey, this is a man who gave his his adult life to protecting and defending this country. one of the highest ranked generals. >> in and. >> one of the most decorated soldiers of our time. and yet, to silence. >> joe, as you. >> said earlier, the silence is. deafening when it. >> comes to general milley. >> i have. asked senior military leaders, current and retired. >> if they wouldn't say something about this situation. >> and the answer. >> is no. there are. >> all. >> sorts of. >> reasons for that. >> but the basic reality is what

you say. >> it's silence. >> and silence. >> in. >> this case is. >> acquiescence. >> and we. >> may. not be through. >> with the stories. >> at the pentagon. >> wait a week. >> you may. >> see you may see. >> more instances of. >> political retribution against against senior military officers. >> and the. >> point i would make. >> joe. >> is. >> that what we're. >> seeing across the. >> government, it looks so new, but it's. >> really the. >> reimposition of what in the 19th century was called the spoils system. which means it's winner take all. if the president. >> wins, he can fire everybody and put. >> it in his own political loyalists. >> and there are no protections. >> and then we had reform. >> we had. >> teddy roosevelt. >> that was his. >> great issue. was. we need clean government and we need a. >> professional civil service. >> that's how we. >> got his start. >> but you're. >> seeing that idea. >> wiped out as. >> we return. >> to a trump. >> musk spoil system.

>> with. >> enormous cost for each of these agencies. >> wow. >> thank you. nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. >> thank you. >> very much. >> for your. >> reporting this morning. msnbc political analyst anand giridharadas and washington post. david ignatius. thank you both as well. we really appreciate it. more to come on this. coming up, pablo torre is here to talk about some of the early headlines coming out of the mlb spring training and how trump's trade war against canada is spilling out onto the hockey eyes. we'll explain when morning joe comes right back. >> rules to follow, if that is. >> rules to follow, if that is. this is an. asthma. does it have you missing out on what you love with who you love? it's time to get back out there with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks

and can also be taken conveniently at home. fasenra helps prevent asthma attacks. most patients did not have an attack in the first year. fasenra is proven to help you breathe better so you can get back to doing day-to-day activities. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems. serious allergic reactions may occur. get help for swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens or you have a parasitic infection. headache and sore throat may occur. get back to better breathing. get back to what you've missed. ask your doctor about fasenra, the only asthma treatment taken once every 8 weeks. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. (♪♪) customize and save. hundreds on car insurance. with liberty

mutual. >> you're just. >> a flightless. >> bird, you know. >> he's a. >> dreamer, frank. >> and doug. >> well, i'll be that bird. really? did it. >> only pay. >> only pay. when i started walton goggins goggle glasses, i had no idea what i was doing. but godaddy airo does. using ai to build a logo, website and social content. so i can let the world know, if your goggles ain't goggins, they don't belong on your noggins! similar set. >> both have buttery soft. upholstery and multiple. >> colors, but mine has storage charging and costs. charging and costs. >> hun dry... tired... itchy, burning... my dry eye symptoms got worse over time. my eye doctor explained the root was inflammation. xiidra was made for that, so relief is lasting. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra

and seek medical help if needed. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort, blurred vision, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. before using xiidra, remove contact lenses and wait fifteen minutes before re-inserting. dry eye over and over? it's time for xiidra. businesses need shipping software that keeps up with their growth. with shipstation you can automatically sync inventory and manage returns across all your sales channels. ♪♪ so you fulfill your orders accurately. and ship the right products to the right customers. shipstation makes it easy to manage everything on one platform, with the lowest carrier rates... no matter how big you get. keep your business growing. go to shipstation.com to start your free trial today.

shining in the sky. >> well. major league. baseball players are preparing for their first spring training contest of the season. and john lemire kind of got a new problem in boston right now. you know, remember a couple of years ago, we had so few good quality players on on some days, and it looked like a minor league team. and now you. remember late august, tj, our producer, our director. >> went up. >> with his family and they just called him out, asked. >> him to play center field. >> and you know, tj's. >> not that good. >> so but this. year we've got a

battle. >> over. who plays third. >> base already. and devers. >> of. >> course, acting like devers saying he wants to. >> stay at third base instead of saying. >> i'll. let my. coach decide. >> who's going to play third base. but there you go. new problems for the red sox. and i. >> like them. >> i mean, to be fair though, tj. >> did. >> catch the fly ball that was hit his way. now granted, it was right at him. he didn't really have to go anywhere. yeah, but look, he caught it. he got it. he hit the cutoff man on a bounce. but still it was. >> a and hey. >> and he was holding. >> a beer. >> in his right hand. so yeah. pretty good to get the beer down. he threw it in like that. yeah. yeah. >> it was not not a bad play. >> not a bad play. so we're gonna get the red sox. >> get the red sox in just a second. but sadly, we have to start with the new york yankees. and their captain, aaron judge, spoke to reporters yesterday about the biggest move of the offseason. that, of course, was his former teammate juan soto, heading across town to the mets. >> juan's decision, and his apparent conclusion. >> that he had a better chance.

>> to win with. >> the mets and. >> the yankees. >> you know, it's his opinion. >> he can he can say what he wants. >> i definitely. >> disagree with him, but. i wasn't i. >> wasn't too. >> surprised by it. >> you know, it's. >> i think that's where he wanted to be. i think that's where it was best for him and his family. >> and you. >> got to. >> you got. a pretty nice. >> deal over there. so i think you can't say. >> no to that. but i'm happy for him. you can't replace. >> a guy like juan soto. >> but you bring in. >> guys like this that. >> are, you. >> know, all-stars, mvp caliber players. >> you know, it's we. >> did a pretty good job. >> this show continues to delight in the idea that juan soto spurned the yankees to head to the mets. so, as joe just mentioned elsewhere in the american league east, maybe there's some trouble brewing in boston and its clubhouse. after the red sox signed free agent third baseman alex bregman. good move. spent some money. got bregman, but but boston's rafael devers, their incumbent third baseman, was adamant yesterday that he's not interested in a scenery change, telling reporters through a translator,

quote, third base is my position. we should note he's a below average, maybe defensive fielder, while alex bregman, a gold glove winner. let's now bring in the host of pablo torre finds out on meadowlark media. msnbc contributor pablo torre and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. good to see you both. i'm so glad we are talking baseball. >> yeah. >> barnicle and i have just been grunting. levels of frustration at you while you. >> do those. >> i know i noticed i because i'm a true professional. >> yeah. look. >> if you. >> want to pay me $700 million. >> i will. >> also say that you give me the best chance to win. because as a general principle in my life when it comes to juan soto. but i do think that the red sox thing is. interesting because barnicle. >> he's been shouting it down. >> he's been shouting. it down. and i want. >> to i want to. >> revel in the. shouts because it's funny to me what's happened here. >> devers is going to play. >> where alex. >> cora tells him. >> to play. >> that's the bottom line. >> the other guys. >> that joe was mentioning roman, anthony, christian campbell, marcello meyer,

there's a reason they're called prospects, because they have not yet played major. >> league baseball. >> so let's play it out and it's going to. >> be fun. >> it's going to be fun. >> yeah, i trust. >> alex cora to handle the situation. you know, bregman has said he'll play second base. it'll get sorted out i agree. we also should note some other players moving positions this year. mike trout moving to right field. hopefully he can stay healthy this time around. jose altuve going to the outfield. that's a headline i missed until until this week. and another player doing something different shohei ohtani back to the pitcher's mound. >> yes. >> look position changes. spring training. >> is a time for all sorts of theatrical protestation around how dare you move. me to the place that i don't see myself being? >> mike trout's. >> doing it, though, because of health, the guy just can't stay healthy. and so he's been. >> i mean, mike, he is. >> as good a center fielder as. >> we have seen in the history of baseball. that's been the argument. and yet he hasn't played 180 games in seven years. >> he is one of the all time great baseball players. >> yes. >> ranked in the top five top five. >> players of. >> all time.

>> until the. injury bug hits him. but the bottom. >> line here is, isn't it miraculous and wonderful that we're talking. >> about baseball instead of. >> the other stuff? >> yeah, no, i agree, but at least it's back. it's a sign of spring and otherwise. pretty quiet moment on the sports calendar. except except for hockey, because canada and the united states will meet in the nhl's four nation faceoff championship later this week. canada's victory over finland yesterday clinched its spot in the final, and a rematch against team usa, who won a brutal battle in montreal on saturday. how brutal. there were three fights in the game's first nine seconds, but team usa will be hampered by a handful of key injuries, with four. brady tkachuk added to the list last night after he exited the team's two one defeat to sweden in a game that had no bearing on the tournament. usa was already in the finals. that much anticipated final thursday night at boston's td garden. a couple

things to hit on this. first of all, it comes at a moment where everyone is mad at the nba. no one cares about the nba this year. it seems their all star game is terrible. the nhl has hit on this new formula. players really care. they're representing their country. the quality of play is really high. thursday is going to be great, but there's also a geopolitical angle to this as we have the canadiens booing the us national anthem in the wake of the tariffs that president trump wants to do. >> yeah, look what we're watching here in this tournament, which was invented as a way to maybe gin up some interest, is the greatest manufactured sporting event in the recent history of. all star like enterprises. 4.4 million. >> people watched this. >> that is the most for a non. >> stanley cup. >> final since i believe 2019. and the basic principle, mike, is if. >> the. >> players themselves do not care, why would the audience. >> and so. >> now you have this brew of geopolitics plus just genuine

cultural tribal. >> affiliation among. >> hockey crazed. >> countries that. >> are saying we want to punch. >> the other country. >> literally in the. >> face. >> you just. >> put your finger. >> on it with the simple word cares. the kachuk brothers right off the top, you know, first. >> matthew tkachuk. >> and then his brother brady tkachuk. >> two fights, three fights in nine seconds. >> because they cared. >> about the product. they cared. about what they do. they cared about their team. >> and yes. >> they cared. >> that the national. >> anthem was being booed up. >> in canada. >> they cared about. >> it. >> and. >> they proved how. >> much they. >> cared by. >> inciting a near riot within 10s. it brought a. >> lot of. >> interest to the game. >> they had the highest. >> ratings, i think, for a hockey game in. >> a. >> long. long time. and it proves that if. >> the athlete. >> cares, the fans. >> will follow. >> yeah, my boys and i are hockey fans. we've been glued to this, but it's also broken through to the casual fan this week, which has been a lot of fun to see. thursday night will be great. pablo, let's hit on something else in your podcast,

you recently covered a trend that takes people's love of their sports teams to a new posthumous level. dare i ask what you found out? yeah, what. >> i found out is that by 2030, about a supermajority of americans will opt for cremation. okay, so why am i talking about cremation? >> are you looking at me? >> why am i looking in the general direction? i would never i would never presuppose what you wish to be carried into the afterlife being. but what i would say is that we are living in a time of peak cremation. and where you want to be buried, it turns out we want to be spread more than buried is at sports venues. okay, so there are studies and i want to cite the american association of funeral directors here for backing me up. where where you want to go is the place that you love the most. and those. >> arenas. >> john, they don't want this, okay? >> they're not. >> looking for this kind of a thing. security departments are on high alert. they're all of these policies. and so what we did was find the one place.

>> seemingly in. >> america, the one sports venue that welcomed this. and so that is video of a woman named edna who trusted us, who trusted us. with telling the story of her husband, who is in that bag, and the spreading of her husband's ashes throughout sebring international racetrack in florida. and so we found a place. we found an eternal resting place, and that we helped edna locate for her dearly departed mike. >> do we think the right handed batter's box at fenway is that the. >> you know, i think after. the 2004 comeback. win over the. >> yankees. >> there were requests. >> many requests for relatives, grandparents, ashes. >> being spread on the infield. and no, you can't. >> do it. no. >> well, better not do it at third base without checking with rafael devers. that's right. host of. how to find meadowlark media. >> look at how pleased.

>> lamiere. >> is with his talking. >> thanks again. just a. >> remarkable self-admiration deserved. >> deserved. yeah. msnbc contributor pablo torre thank you. illuminating podcast there. mika, back to you. >> oh, god. >> yep yep. >> yep yep. >> thank you pablo. still ahead, democratic. >> strategist james. >> carville has advice for democrats who oppose president trump's takeover of the federal government. why? he's now telling them to simply let it go. plus, we'll dig into an exciting new book about the man who invented saturday night live, lorne michaels. author susan morrison got unprecedented. >> access to. >> him and. >> the entire snl apparatus. we'll show you never before seen pictures and hear how his legendary show changed comedy forever. we're back in two forever. we're back in two minutes. businesses and communities come together on tiktok. they don't show up like they do on tiktok. and i had all these people rooting for me on tiktok.

empowering over 7 million us businesses. there's no way i'd be able to support this building or any of my employees. > that went from maybe a few hundred people seeing my product to millions. they rely on tiktok to succeed. i don't think i could have gotten this far if i didn't have that kind of community. small businesses thrive on tiktok. (♪♪) dave's been very excited about saving big with the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. small businesses thrive on tiktok. five years? -five years. and he's not alone. -high five.

it's five years of reliable gig speed internet. five years of advanced securit. five years of a great rate that won't change. it's back. but only for a limited time. high five. five years? -nope. comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business. night and work stalled to a halt. thankfully, he has the experience to handle whatever comes his way and has granger on his side, offering access to technical product specialists and the scale to deliver fast so he can keep his business in gear and always moving forward. call granger comm or just stop by granger for the ones who get it done.

>> it was fun. >> all right. welcome back to. >> morning joe. >> on this. >> tuesday. february 18th. >> jonathan lemire, alex vitale, eugene robinson and mike barnicle are still with us. and joining the conversation, we have former msnbc host and contributor to washington monthly, chris matthews. and joe. we were just talking about the snl 50 special. it was so good, so fun. it was great. yeah. >> okay. yeah. the ratings. i mean, ratings. we're going to be talking about it. yeah, yeah. >> i mean. we're talking. >> about it. >> later. >> but the ratings that 15 million plus. people watching is. >> biggest. >> biggest show on nbc non football show in quite some time. and that's i mean that's a huge. show for any broadcast network at this point. with viewing habits. >> the way they are it's. >> yeah pretty. >> pretty extraordinary. >> people loved the. escape that's for sure. it was fun and funny. all right. let's get to our top story this morning. there are growing concerns about

air safety this morning after the trump administration fired hundreds of federal aviation administration employees. nbc news senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell has the details. >> with alarming real world incidents, the crucial mission of public safety faces an internal test as the federal workforce is under scrutiny and hit with job cuts. president trump's department of government efficiency and elon musk's doge team continue to make cuts, including at the federal aviation administration. close to 300 faa employees terminated this weekend, according to a union that represents workers there. 28 year old jason king was at faa for eight months. when you were doing your job at faa, did you believe you were helping to make the public safer? >> i truly did. >> king, an army veteran with a service related disability, says

he worries cuts could be too deep. >> even for the people that are still there. their workload has drastically increased. and i think. >> that's where a. >> big part of my concern. >> for the public. safety comes in. >> other federal job cuts may also be linked to public safety. 400 layoffs at homeland security, including 200 positions at fema, the federal emergency management agency. hundreds fired from the centers for disease control, including about two dozen who support outbreak response, according to agency sources. >> with federal workers. >> protests across the country turning this president's day holiday into a day of action, from the winter chill of albany to sunshine in orlando. >> we win. >> thank you. the west coast to the nation's capital. and but the people are going to feel it eventually. meanwhile, an

employee affiliated with doge is expected to seek access to an irs system that holds sensitive information. trump adviser stephen miller insisted americans personal financial data will be secure. >> i give you. complete and total assurance on that point. we are talking about performing a basic anti-fraud review to ensure that people are not engaging in large scale theft of federal taxpayer benefits. >> nbc's kelly o'donnell with that report. meanwhile, democratic strategist james carville has advice for democrats who oppose president trump's takeover of the federal government, telling them to, quote, do nothing. here is the exchange with msnbc's ari melber. >> we're seeing signs and protesters saying, james, this is not even what people voted for, even if they are anti-trump voters. they're calling out a lot of things that they say exceed the president's authority

or are dangerous or are gutting of the federal government. what's happening here? what do you see? >> what i see is something organic coming up from around the country. i don't think that there was a lot of organization. if you remember, in 2017, you had like a million women on the mall. this is happening all around the country. so the question is, how should democratic politicians respond to this? and what i think they should do is what we call in rural america play possum. just let it go. don't get in the way of it. or as we like to say, don't just stand there, do nothing. let it. let this germinate. we don't need to be. we don't need to get in front of it. this freight train is moving. let's just get out of the way, and then we're going to have time. in the immortal words of dalton in roadhouse, be nice until it's time not to be nice. and that time is coming shortly.

>> you know you know chris matthews, it's fascinating. so there has been this debate in democratic. >> circles over. >> the last month on what to do, how. >> quickly to do it, how. >> assertively to do it. >> you had an ad. >> on earlier. >> this morning saying, get. >> out there, fight. >> people aren't. >> fighting enough. you have james carville saying. sit back. >> wait, don't get in front of it. that reminds me an awful. lot of and you'll remember. >> this, chris, the contract with america first 100. >> days. >> republicans, we. >> steamrolled one thing after. >> another, passed all of these things. >> majority of. >> democrats voted for most of them. >> and it got to a point where bill clinton had to hold a. >> press conference. >> and say, i'm. >> still. >> relevant as president, but it's very interesting. at one point, i. >> walked over and i talked to dick gephardt. >> who was. >> the democratic leader. >> so i sat, we. >> were talking. >> i go, you guys are kind of

quiet over here. >> you got to let's. what's the plan? you guys aren't. >> you know, you guys really aren't pushing. back that hard. and gephardt just sat there and smiled. he went like this. and i just sat there. i didn't get it until about, like, 30. >> days later. >> and they. >> were just lying. back and wait. and gephardt and the rest of the. >> democrats were. >> taking receipts of every excess. bill clinton was sitting back, taking receipts of every excess. and sure enough, man, when the response came, they. had it lined up. they pounded gingrich. they pounded. >> the republicans. a lot of people i got elected. >> with did not. >> get reelected. >> the next year. and bill clinton reelected in 1996. >> yeah. well, there's a lot of rules. >> out. >> there about. >> how. to behave. >> when you're losing. >> but, you know. >> the big problem is. >> that trump.

>> came in this. >> time, this second. >> time with a machine gun, and he fired so many shots. he said, first of all, the people that tried to kill congress. >> by. attacking the. >> us congress on. january 6th. >> i'm going to pardon them. >> all to let you. >> know where i stand. i'm with them. >> that was a. >> pretty. >> clear statement. i'm with article two. not article one. i'm not with the congress. i'm not looking out for you guys. and when it came time for advise and consent, which there's a whole book written about and a whole, it was a big issue. the right of the congress to say no to a cabinet appointment. he said, you're not going to do that because i'm going to shut you guys down. and he did. so tillis and cassidy and collins, nobody talked. they shut down the congress. he said, i'm the boss. and he just said the same thing over seas. he said, basically, let's see, i'm going to have one of my guys over there is going to say that germany should go to the right. germany should move to the right. now, there's an interesting foreign policy. i

haven't seen that in the 20th century. certainly go to the right. and that's what his vice president said. i want you to accept the afd, join the right, put up with them, not only put up with them, tolerate and use them, bring them, bring them forth. go to the right. get to the right. you know, it's unbelievable. and then he treats little countries like ukraine. like they don't matter. europe like it doesn't matter. he's the big boss at home and the big boss overseas. and nobody stands in his way. and i watched the democrats in the media too. it's very hard to take on a firing squad. a lot of bullets coming your way, all aiming at you, and you've got to shoot back in all directions at the same time. nobody in the democratic party can say schumer can't do it. he's a good leader. you know, he was a fabulous leader. but the ability to take on all the shots at once. now that's interesting. you know, peter baker can do it in the new york times. you know, he's one of the few people that can actually lead a news story and talk about everything that's

going on and attack back. why can't a democratic leader stand up and say what i just said? what i just said? this guy's taken down the congress. he's taken down the rights of the american people. he's the big boss overseas. and back here, the big boss. listen to him. do what he says. nobody's saying that. chris murphy's trying. i keep waiting. who's going to stand up? who's going to. who's going to take a shot back at this guy? why isn't cory booker doing. he's got all the talent in the world. i'm a big cory booker fan. do it, cory. do it. >> where are. >> those voices? is really coming through right. >> now, though. >> and sometimes i don't know. i really don't know. but here's here's what. >> i see. i see you got a good point there. because the american people will respond to certain voices. they respond to roosevelt. of course, they responded to eisenhower not really getting that much attention, but yes, they did. did jack kennedy, the ronald reagan tip o'neill used to say, ronald reagan is the best speechmaker in the world. when he had a prepared text, that was his shot at him. but the fact is, you know, will people listen

to chris murphy? that's a great question. we should try it out. >> you got to have the right messenger, though, the messenger that people will listen to. here's my question about about democrats in congress. what should they do about the spending bill when it comes up or the great big beautiful. >> they have a great opportunity on march 14th to say no. >> isn't that enough? >> no and no is a good word. >> it should the should the senators, as you know, one senator can tie the senate in knots. right. in terms of, of nominations in terms of just being able to do anything. i mean, that's the way the senate works. so should democratic senators be doing. >> what is it michael bennet do that. chuck is doing? there's a lot of good speakers out. >> there doing it. of hawaii. >> on doing that on state department. right. nominees below the secretary and he's holding them. >> tommy tuberville is how to do it. >> yeah, exactly. tuberville he. ordered the whole military. you

know, hold up the whole administration. >> there is a senator has the right to speak until you're done. >> it's the central tension point, though, right? is like the sanitized version for morning television is mess around and find out. right. i've heard from many democratic sources who say, okay, america voted for this. let's let them see what the results of that. >> vote actually is. with jd, we're seeing with with the vice president. we're seeing what you know, what hegseth says. you know, we're going to give away nato. they can't join nato and have to go back to pre-invasion borders. and he he's almost demonstrating what i thought he would, which is what his incompetence. it became really fast, though, mika. really fast for this guy to give away the game like he did. >> yeah. let me add something else into the mix here. president trump has nominated ed martin, who has been serving as interim u.s. attorney for dc, to serve in the position in a permanent capacity, trump wrote in a social media post. ed has led a distinguished career of

service since inauguration day. he has been doing a great job as interim u.s. attorney, fighting tirelessly to restore law and order. that post came just days after martin announced he would be investigating former special counsel jack smith and a law. firm that provided him with pro bono services. a new u.s. attorney is also the new u.s. attorney, is also a conservative activist who is a prominent member of the stop the steal movement. speaking at an election denial rally in 2021, martin said, quote, what they're stealing is not just an election. it's our future and it's our republic. martin recently played a key role in the firings of some assistant u.s. attorneys who had worked on january 6th cases. so back to you, chris. you want democrats to use their voices? to what

end? to what end? where's the cavalry? what can they actually do? >> well, you know, i think about the advances that trump has made on american liberties. when you take away secret service protection to tony fauci this some day, i'm not going to predict because it's awful to do it. something's going to happen. somebody in iran or somewhere. >> anthony fauci. >> all these all these mary milley, all these people. somebody's going to get the word. they're not being protected. and guess who sent the word? the president? united states. i'm not protecting them. and i'm telling you, this is dangerous business. yeah. and i, i don't want to say what's going to happen, but it's going to happen. >> well, at. >> some point, i mean. >> there's so many different strains on the. >> system. >> and i understand that people need. >> to speak out. >> and i think people are and they're. >> trying. >> but. >> we live in a country. >> this lead. >> we live in a country of people who attack schools and go after school, kids who are

awful, people who just happen to be in the system. they just happen to be one of the numbers that live in the united states. they're already there. they're already out there. and then you have the systematic people from abroad who have reason to dislike some of our leaders because they've done some good work. and the idea that milley, with all the stars on his shoulder, has to protect himself. it's crazy. >> all right. >> i'm going to turn now to the delta plane, flip over, crash a little bit more on it. we touched on it earlier. an investigation is underway this morning. after that, delta airlines plane crashed at canada's toronto pearson international airport, overturning upon landing and injuring at least 18 people on board. nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk has the latest on that. >> an unimaginable scene at toronto's. pearson international airport. >> oh, >> oh. >> oh no. >> no no no no. >> we just.

>> landed on. >> a plane crash. >> it's upside down. >> video obtained. >> by. >> tmz shows the moment delta airlines flight. >> 4819 crashed into the runway. >> and overturned. >> the aircraft's upside. >> down. and burning. >> video posted on social media. >> shows. >> passengers evacuating. >> the plane. >> operated by. >> regional. >> jet company. >> endeavor air. >> drop it! >> come on. >> one passenger. >> filming the moment. >> he jumped out of the emergency. >> exit onto. >> a. tarmac covered in patches of snow. >> you know, i was just on this plane. >> all 76 passengers. >> and. four crew. >> members are accounted for. paramedic services saying. >> at least. >> 18 were. >> injured, including. >> a child. two people were. >> airlifted to. >> a nearby trauma center. >> there was no loss of life. >> and this. >> is in due part to our heroic and trained professionals. >> bystanders filming giant clouds of. >> black smoke. >> as first responders quickly. >> covered the plane. >> in foam. to prevent. flames from spreading. officials say it's too early to speculate

about the cause. >> of the crash, but the weather conditions are coming. >> into. >> sharp focus at. >> around the time the plane landed. wind gusts. >> reached close to. 40mph amid blowing snow and negative 2 degrees wind chill. it comes amid some. >> confusion over the presence of. >> crosswinds. >> which can impact. >> plane landings. >> toronto pearson fire chief. >> saying the runway was dry and there were no crosswind conditions at the time. >> but according to aviation. >> tracking website flightradar24, weather advisories indicated a gusting crosswind. monday's accident involved a crj 900 plane popular for short haul flights. >> the next thing i saw was basically. a plane. the plane. basically flipped on the runway. >> the regional jet is a bigger version. >> of the. >> same model involved in the deadly collision in washington, dc, between a military helicopter and an american airlines flight just. >> 20 days ago. that crash. >> the deadliest in nearly 25 years, killed 67 people.

>> for joe, another scary scene. well, another. >> scary scene. and we had kelly o'donnell reporting. earlier this morning, mike barnicle about concerns about faa cuts. the washington post reporting. >> this, that the federal. >> aviation administration has let go. hundreds of technicians and engineers just weeks after a midair collision miles from the white house that killed 67 people, eliciting promises from trump officials to improve air safety, workers said in an interview. so firing people in the faa after that crash. >> of course. >> after the crash in philadelphia. growing, growing concerns. but, you know, it's so interesting that that it's this. whole idea. >> we're we're we're going. >> to we're going to take. >> the bureaucracy. >> down to, you know, to the stubs. we're going to we're going to go in and we're going to just tear things apart and ask questions later. and the

unintended consequences, there's just. >> no doubt there's going. >> to be unintended consequences that are. >> going. >> to be very bad if they don't do it in. >> a measured, intelligent way. >> this isn't twitter, this. isn't x, this isn't some company. >> you. >> can go through and. >> just wipe things out. we're talking. >> here about air. safety for our families. we're talking about. safety for the food our families eat. we're talking about safe air that our families breathe. the water that our. >> families drink. we're we're talking even forget about pandemics. let's just talk about epidemics. >> tracing flu. >> epidemic, getting information, gathering it all together, making sure that. you know, making sure that we all have the information that we need on, on again, on air. food and other safety. so yeah, there's waste, fraud and abuse. i've spent my entire life

talking about it. yeah. we need to balance the budget. >> this doesn't do it. >> this doesn't come close to do it. doing it. >> with $36. >> trillion in debt, they won't find $1 trillion of damage here. but they are going to they are going to cause a hell of a lot of damage and make americans less safe if they don't do. >> this the right. >> way, if they don't. >> do this the legal. >> way, if they. >> don't do this. >> in a way that's transparent. >> well, you're absolutely right. >> and it feeds into. >> the conversation. >> that began at the top. >> of this hour. joe, what's happening to the federal government? i mean, people make fun of. >> the federal government. >> it's too big. it's too wasteful. the anybody can find waste in the federal government, there's no doubt about that. but my sad prediction is that sooner rather. than later, people's. social security benefits will be slow in getting to them. medicare and medicaid won't work as well as it did prior to. they're looking at these departments and going in at

these departments, and the federal government will look no longer like it does now. it won't be as effective, even though people think it's inefficient. and there are a lot of inefficiencies in it. but something's going to collapse here. and that's where the democrats ought to be focused on fighting back. they ought to be out there in the country talking to people who are most likely to be damaged by the inadequacies brought by the, the musk doge committee. whatever they're doing in these departments, they will be the most damaged more quickly than other people will be. farmers will be damaged, poor people will be damaged. middle class people with children will be damaged. and then there's the threat of how many people will refuse to get vaccines for their children because of all the contentiousness and all the publicity surrounding vaccines, how many people will let their children get measles, which is an epidemic? now, apparently in parts of texas, all of these

things will come home to roost. that's the democrats best bet. it's a sad bet, but it's their best bet. >> yeah. >> well. >> well, their best their their. >> best bet is to stop that from happening, to. >> do whatever they. >> can to. >> keep. >> americans safe. >> this is not about politics. >> this is about keeping americans. >> safe. >> whether it's when they get on a plane. it's about keeping them safe. >> whether you're talking about the food. >> that they eat, you know, whether you're talking about safer, the air that our children. >> breathe or the water that we. >> all drink. >> i mean, that's. >> what needs to be. >> taken care of. republicans. >> independents. >> democrats alike. >> need to focus on that. and this whole idea. >> by the way, it's. >> it's nonsense when you're. >> hearing. >> we. >> have to do. >> this to save money because we have to balance the budget. there's a. $36 trillion debt. i can tell you 80% of that, 85% of

that does not come from anything. that doge is touching. that 80, 85% comes from defense spending, medicare, medicaid, social. >> security. >> interest on the debt. all that. >> makes up. >> 80, 85%. government is. >> about all. >> these things we're talking about takes about 10%, maybe 12% of the budget. and then you're cutting around the edges. >> here and. >> you're doing things again, not in a meaningful, thoughtful. >> way, but in a way where you just. >> going in and again, just ripping things away. this would be like. >> a hotel. >> getting bedbugs on the. 11th floor and deciding they were going to burn down. >> the hotel. >> instead of changing the sheets and taking. >> out the. >> beds on the 11th floor and changing them. there's a smart way to do this. it needs to be done. the federal government needs to be more efficient. its

systems. need to be updated. >> to the 21st. >> century, the 21st century standards. >> and we've said it. >> here for years now. there's some computers from the 1980s at the pentagon, so we need this updating. it needs to be done, though in a meaningful, thoughtful way that doesn't make americans. >> less safe. >> and everybody. >> sitting here talking about what the democrats. >> need to do, democrats need to fight to protect americans safety, to keep them safe. >> yeah. and i think there's a bigger conversation on why things are being done this way that will have. >> as well. >> it's to they mean to be to burn down the hotel. >> right. >> the idea is to destroy the administrative state or the deep state. and so this is a feature, not a bug as far as. >> they're concerned. >> right. or a bed bug. chris matthews, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we'll see you soon. time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this

morning. mexico is threatening to take. google to court over its gulf of america name change on maps for users in the us. mexico's president said the policy violates mexican sovereignty because the us only has jurisdiction over 46% of the gulf of mexico and cuba combined control 54%. she has asked google to restore the name gulf of mexico, arguing trump's executive order only renames the part of the gulf that's under u.s. jurisdiction, not the body of water as a whole. southwest airlines plans to eliminate 15% of its corporate workforce. the first major layoffs in the company's 53 year history. the dallas based airline said the layoffs would be focused on senior leadership and directors, and will be completed by the end of june. the moves will save the company about $210 million this

year, and 300 in 2026. and as we mentioned, saturday night live, the 50th anniversary celebration was watched by nearly. 15 million viewers. nbc's most watched prime time telecast in five years. the 3.5 hour special was the biggest audience for the network for a nighttime entertainment show since the 2020 golden globes. only the macy's thanksgiving day parade has drawn more viewers in recent years. it did well. i thought it would. and ahead this hour, we're getting an inside look at the man behind the iconic show. lorne michaels will speak with the author of the new book that explores the long running sketch comedy show and its impact on american culture. plus, we'll dive into the dangers of social media for teenagers and how one movement is encouraging them to simply unplug from screen time

altogether. we'll speak with someone who did just that. you're watching morning joe. you're watching morning joe. we'll with hotels and vacation rentals, booking.com has something for everyone. seashells! you got anything more boutique? oui, oui, oui. right this way... now we're talking. what about something more family friendly? oooh! maybe a resort with a waterpark... [water splash] or somewhere less family-friendly? yep! one vegas hotel for the bride to be. what if we hate everything? we have free cancellation. find exactly what you're booking for. booking.com booking.yeah at&t has a new guarantee. because most things in business are not guaranteed. like a distraction-free work environment. -yeah,i'll circle back around. -get those steps in, kevin. your coworkers keeping things confidential. [phone ringing] oh, she's spilling all the tea. ♪♪ or office etiquette. yeah, that's not guaranteed. i know you can see me! you know what at&t guarantees? connectivity you depend on, the deals you want,

and the service you deserve. can i get that logo bigger? or we'll make it right. that's the at&t guarantee. customize. >> and save. >> hundreds on car. insurance with liberty mutual. you're just a flightless bird. >> you. >> he's a dreamer, frank. >> okay. >> doug. >> well. >> i'll be. >> that bird really did it. >> only pay. >> for what. >> you need. liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. >> we aren't building electric vehicles because it's trendy. >> we're building. them to save. >> our. >> planet. to save it. >> from all those soulless. >> self-driving sleep pods. >> everyone else keeps. >> polluting our streets with.

>> polluting our streets with. >> that's why we're doing it. planning to move? join the 6 million families who discovered a smarter, more flexible way to move, with pods. save up to 20% now for a limited time. whether you're moving across town or across the country. save up to 20% at pods dot com today. reducing shampoo just shampoo. >> like you do to. >> gradually reduce grays. now boosted with keratin hair looks boosted with keratin hair looks two dexcom g7 sends your glucose numbers to your phone and watch, so you can always see where you're heading without fingersticks. dexcom g7 is the most accurate cgm, so you can manage your diabetes with confidence. ♪♪

whenever my customers ask how to get a better price on their meds, i tell them about single care. it's a free app accepted at pharmacies nationwide. >> before i pick. >> up my prescription, i always check the single care price. >> it's quick, easy, and totally free to use. >> single care can literally beat my insurance copay. >> you just search for. >> your prescription and show your single care coupon at the pharmacy. >> so i just show the coupon. >> so i just show the coupon. >> need a shipping solution that'll grow with you? with shipstation, you can manage and fulfill all your orders in one place. plus, you get more carrier options, at the lowest rates. keep your business growing. head to shipstation.com to start your free trial.

hips and i should cool down to the ground. i constantly plotted my instagram identity. on some days i wanted to look effortlessly beautiful, on other days too cool to care. often both at the same time, which was an impossible task. i was a compulsive creator and artistic jammer. i like to sew, knit, and draw, but none of my crafts seem

to matter to me unless i could post them for digital praise. the way i see it now, when you have a toxic relationship with these apps, when you're not judging yourself, you're judging other people. >> that was logan lane, a co-founder of the anti-social media and smartphone luddite club. now in college, logan started the organization as a way to bring her fellow new york city teens together and embrace their inner luddite by gathering in person without their devices. can you imagine this? the club ironically went viral in 2022 after the new york times profiled it. now, the paper has a follow up piece checking up on the movement to shift kids and young adults away from screens and back to the real world. don't even know if that's possible. and logan lane joins us now. also with us, the author of both of those pieces features writer for the style section of the new york times, alex

verdugo. alex, i'll actually start with you. what was the inspiration to go back and follow up? >> what was the inspiration? well, firstly, thanks for having us. and yeah, i think the simplest answer i have is the story just didn't really feel finished. i think, you know, the first piece i kind of to me it was almost like a local new york human interest story. and then we hit publish on. >> this thing. >> and the response was really unlike anything i've ever had with a piece i've written before. it just kind. >> of. >> i think, you know, kind of challenged and provoked readers. people looked at themselves, but two years later, it just seemed like a natural cliffhanger, like, you know, because there's something idealistic about the root of the club. so what's it like when there's a taste of the real world? >> so, logan, i'd love an update

on how it's going and if it's possible to completely detach. >> yeah. thank you so much for having me. the club has been around for three years now. it's been two years since our original times piece, and we've since transitioned the club into a nonprofit organization in order to spread the clubs throughout the country. >> and we currently have. >> 15 luddite clubs in america right now. and it is possible i still have a flip phone. my friends still have flip phones in college, and we're still living these fulfilling offline lives. you know, we're not totally detached from our peers. and it's been wonderful. >> so. >> logan. >> you know, we're just saying during the break, our eighth grade son is going through this, too. we keep him on a dumb phone like we see some of his friends obviously are always on their on their screens. and, you know, my question to you is those who who have entered this, these clubs who decided to have this

experience, what are they talking about in terms of like, like withdrawal, because there's been real science behind it about how those those notifications, those haptic touches, these are experiences almost akin to a drug. are they finding it difficult to transition out of this? >> yeah. so the clubs act as a sort of mutual accountability network to conquer these withdrawals that you talk about? i. i think with the dumb phone, people are trying to get away from the immediate access to the technology. and when you do that, it's easier to get away from the withdrawal. you know, if your phone can only call and text and you can't do anything else, it's almost like out of sight, out of mind, and you don't have to worry about the million of other tasks you can do on the smartphone. so i think the dumb phone is helpful in getting away from the you know, you might you might miss it. you might want to check instagram and feel yourself trying to do that. but if you if you get it out of sight, then it's almost

like it's not there anymore. >> so, alex, what's it like writing volume two of the luddite club, which is basically despite its merits, despite the merits that every parent and most people would think about having, you know, a merit in stop relying on your cell phone. it's hopeless. >> yeah. what was volume two like? i mean, you know, everyone had kind of moved on, of course, with with their lives. and i don't think that they were sort of no one was asking for the pesky times reporter to come back knocking. so i kind of bent everyone's ear. i mean, logan was was, of course, the first person i reached out to about it. and i was like, how how would you guys feel about it? and, you know, then she kind of rustled up the rest of the luddites and it went from there. and, you know, i think i pitched it to my editors by saying, this is, you know, michael apted's seven up version of a timepiece in the style section. and i

think the one important thing is, you know, there's no right or wrong answers. so wherever they ended up was kind of i just wanted to know. and most of them remained pretty steadfast and diehard to it. occasional compromises here and there. but yeah, i anything they tell me was was interesting. and i think that's why the follow up has resonated with readers. >> all right. you can learn more at the luddite club. dot org co-founder logan lane and new york times style reporter alex verdugo. thank you both very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. and coming up, we're going to bring you an update on the diplomatic meeting happening right now in saudi arabia between us and russian officials. plus, we'll go through the resignations at new york city hall over the justice department's move to dismiss corruption charges

against mayor eric adams. morning joe will be right back. morning joe will be right back. >> looking out ♪♪ grandma! ♪♪ still taking yours? everyday! made to care for you, every day. nature made, the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. these and those and that and definitely this. okay, that's engraved where we print with lasers at vistaprint. we print your brand on everything so your customers can notice you, remember you and fall in love with you. like really fall in love with you at vistaprint if love with you at vistaprint if you need it. we print it with actors. we can make you believe we know what we're doing. when, in fact, we do not. whoops.

i have no idea what these buttons do. i've never driven a stick in my life. but my hardest role yet? small business owner. because i have no idea what i'm doing. but godaddy airo does, using ai to build a logo, website and social content... for walton goggins' goggle glasses. because if your goggles ain't goggins, they don't belong on your noggins. with godaddy airo, it's like you know what you're doing. feel like taking chances, i feel like. a brand new. phone. >> i learn more about celebrity cruises latest offers. >> hey there. no need to adjust your tv or more likely, your

phone. you're watching a recycled commercial. see at mint mobile, we're always looking for innovative ways to save our money so we can save you money. so instead of paying for a new commercial, we're reusing this old one. >> and that means we. >> can afford to keep offering you premium wireless for just you premium wireless for just $15 a month. we (morgan) we're all looking for someplace to call home. but first, you need a place to look for a place to call home. and that's homes-dot-com. because it's the best. (lawyer) i told you, you cannot legally say homes-dot-com is the best! (luke) what if she says it, as morgan freeman? (marci) homes-dot—hold on, i can get this. homes-dot-com. (lawyer) no. (luke) well, how can we not say it... if that's our new name?! (lawyer) i give up. (luke) homes-dot-com-is-the- best-dot-com. (wife) saving for retirement was tough enough. (husband) and navigating markets can be challenging at times. (fisher investments) i understand. that's why at fisher investments,

we keep a disciplined approach with your portfolio, helping you through the market's ups and downs. (husband) what about communication? (fisher investments) we check in regularly to keep you informed. (wife) which means you'll help us stay on track? (fisher investments) yes. as a fiduciary, we always put your interests first. because we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. but. >> mine has. >> a. >> bench option, is only 5.99. >> bench option, is only 5.99. >> and is. endorsed by (auctioneer) let's start the bidding at 5 million dollars. thank you, sir. (man) these people of privilege... hoarding the financial advantages for far too long. (auctioneer) 7.5 at the back. (man) look at them — unaware that robinhood gold members now enjoy the vip treatment — a 3% ira match on retirement contributions. (auctioneer) 11 million sir. (man) once they discover their privileges are no longer exclusive...

their fragile reality will plunge into disarray. ♪ here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max! >> citizens of the country. >> we are. >> all. >> watching and waiting to see who is. >> going to hold. >> the line. >> don't miss the. >> weekends, saturday, and sunday mornings at eight. >> on msnbc. >> all of our. >> lives were changed by the show. everyone in this room has something else in common. none of us were allowed to. >> use the. >> little bathroom in lauren's

office. we would love to be working in a coal mine. just look at these coal miners drinking sweet tea. they never had to get notes from lauren. >> see underneath the bleachers with lauren. lauren opens the door. >> and he's. >> like, oh, you two. and we're like, what? >> you invited us. you asked us to. >> be here. >> then he starts pointing at paintings and saying, like, oh, this is from steve, this is from paul, this is from mick. >> and it's like, does he mean mick jagger? >> just just say it. >> just say it. the reason. >> we're. >> all here. >> the man who made our dreams. come true. the one and only. >> oh. >> and paul. >> no, no. lorne michaels, where is. >> so good? >> look at. >> just some of the jokes about lorne michaels at snl's 50th anniversary show on sunday at the helm of saturday night live. for most of the past half

century, lorne has become a comedic institution unto himself, earning more than 100 emmy nominations and creating a cultural touchstone now spanning several generations. joining us now the articles editor at the new yorker, susan morrison. she's the author of the new biography entitled lorne the man who invented saturday night live. and it's great to have you on the show to talk about this. tell us about some of the things we learn in this book, including what is born name is, but also how the book is divided into six parts monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday and saturday. >> lorne was born lorne liebowitz in toronto and made his way to new york after a dozen years bouncing around kind of cruddy variety shows up in la. and after the 40th anniversary ten years ago, i started thinking about how there's no one who has had a

bigger impact on what makes americans laugh, what we think is funny over the last four decades. and people don't know anything about him, you know, to the wider comedy world. he is. he's this, this wizard of oz figure, this, this object of obsession that they're all trying to figure out. but i think the general viewer of snl has no idea of this. so in writing this book, i both wanted to tell you his life story and to get close, you know, to watch sort of from his elbow as this insane production happens every single week. it's a little bit like the hunger games. it begins on monday, and by saturday everyone is half dead. but you know, if they're lucky, we're all laughing. >> so there is sort of a truism that it seems like everyone in show business has a lorne michaels impression, but so many people don't really know him. you know, how have you give us a sampling, if you will, how you think he's evolved, how his sensibilities have evolved in the 50 years of the show. of course, we saw celebrated over

the weekend, right? >> well, in the first five years, one of his key writers was michael o'donoghue, who was a national lampoon refugee with a really caustic sense of humor. a lot of the gags were things like impressions of mike douglas having needles plunged in his eyes, you know, really dark, dark humor. and over the years, he's embraced his his the motto for the last 40 years, i would say, is do it in sunshine. he's always reminding his writers and cast that comedy is an entertainment. it should make you feel good. the costumes should be bright colors. people should, you know, look like they're having fun. he he reminds them that people watch television as if they're huddled around a fireplace. you know, they want to go there for comfort and uplift to a certain extent. and i think that that, that it's the sunshine aspect of comedy that is the thing that's been the most enduring. >> you know, susan, there's a certain a big element of genius

within lorne michaels. and yet, if you ask the average person, tv viewer, you know, what do you think of lorne michaels stuff? it's like, well, who? >> what? >> right? >> but to me, he's always had a shade of perhaps the old jack warner, louis b mayer movie moguls who ran the business from behind a desk and nobody knew them. is there anything to that? >> i think that's a that's a great observation. i mean, lorne always says that if you're as a producer, if you're doing it right, you leave no fingerprints. but the fact is, his fingerprints are on every second of that show. it's so meticulously produced. and in terms of the studio bosses, what he has produced over the decades, it's almost like an update of the studio system. you know, he's created a culture with walls around it where, you know, generations of performers and writers all kind of play in the same sandbox together. they he lets them kind of experiment, throw things around, bounce things off each other, and they

all act in each other's projects. and it's almost as if he's a guy who's had children with 5 or 6 wives. you know, generations of children, and they're all always working together at these big, crazy family reunions. >> so, gene, in the book, susan addresses the mythology surrounding lorne michaels, and in it she writes in part this michaels rules snl with detached but absolute power. he harbors no illusions that his canadian tendency toward self-deprecation is taken seriously by anyone. one talent agent routinely tells clients that auditioning for michaels to always remember that he is. he is the real star of the show. he is the alpha in most of his employees lives. to those people and to the wider comedy world, he is not accidentally a mythic figure, a mysterious object of obsession. he is aware of his own lorne

ness. mike myers says bob odenkirk feels that michaels set himself up as some kind of very distant, strange comedy god. there's so many people who, their whole lives have been trying to figure him out. bill hader says. another colleague put it this way i feel about lorne, the way i feel about the ocean. it's huge and beautiful, but i'm afraid of it. >> i'm afraid of it. right? and that's what i want to ask susan about. susan, you hear about people being afraid of lorne. you also hear about people being banned from the show, right? especially hosts who come on, who who do something that either offends him or he doesn't like or whatever and never again, you know, no soup for you. you know? is there a list? is there a lorne sort of enemies list, is

there or a list of people who are who are banned from saturday night live? and can they appeal? can they ever get back on? and who are they? what? >> i don't think there's really a banned list. i think that's just a good media hook. what's interesting is that people who are on this so-called list, you know, are sinead o'connor, who went on the show and famously tore up a photograph of the pope on air. the reason those things are problematic aren't because, you know, people, lauren has any objection to someone like that, you know, airing her views about the pope. it's more and this is so interesting that it's a live show. and so everything has to be timed down to the second. if somebody goes out there and does something unscripted, you know, there's no improv allowed on the show. does something that throws off the cameramen who have already tracked their shots, throws off the timing, you know, that could end up meaning that you have to cut a sketch later or the commercial doesn't land on time. so there's a there

isn't an enemies list. i think that's just good story. but, you know, in terms of the mystery of lorne, yeah, conan o'brien told me, everybody thinks that lorne has the secret, you know? and so they spend the secret to what we don't know, but they all spend a lot of time talking about him and obsessing over him. and to the extent that that works to the show's advantage, it's that they are all so invested. you know, it's this they care so deeply. they want to please him. they do their best work. they don't want to be cut before saturday. >> the new book, lorne the man who invented saturday night live, is on sale now. author susan morrison, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning, and congratulations on the book. great to have you. >> thank you for having me. >> all right. up next, we're going to take a look at the winter weather impacting millions across the country as an arctic blast stretches from north dakota all the way down to

dallas this morning. we're back in two minutes. >> back when? you know, we >> back when? you know, we should fall. my moderate to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture. with skyrizi, feel symptom relief at 4 weeks. many people were in remission at 12 weeks, at 1 year, and even at 3 years. don't use if allergic. serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur. before treatment, get checked for infections and tb. tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. liver problems leading to hospitalization may occur when treated for crohn's. ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. one minute. and look at the difference. my eyes. >> look brighter and whiter. >> for up to eight hours. >> lumify really works. >> see for yourself.

>> kids. >> i'm sure you're. >> wondering why your mother and i asked you here tonight. it's because it's a buffet of all you can eat. butterfly shrimp and sirloin steak. >> yeah. >> that's the reason. >> i don't g dude, i really need a new phone. check out my new samsung galaxy s25 ultra. it's got galaxy ai. imagine this thing running on our superfast xfinity mobile network. and i also heard that it can do multiple things with a single command. —with google gemini. let me try it. add recipes with overripe bananas to my “dessert ideas” note. that's what you chose to ask it?

i had other things planned. ask how to get up to one thousand dollars off the new samsung galaxy s25 ultra with xfinity mobile. >> just take my. >> hand, darling. >> welcome back. millions of americans are facing severe weather conditions this morning as a new winter storm sweeps across parts of the us. that after devastating flooding in the south that has left at least 14 people dead. nbc news correspondent adrian broaddus has all the details. >> this morning, freezing temperatures. >> and heavy snow. >> sweeping the nation overnight. communities throughout the midwest. >> and beyond. >> facing another blast of wintry. >> weather and. waking up to dangerous. slick roads. in pennsylvania, intense. >> lake effect. >> snow causing headaches for motorists. this tractor trailer overturning onto its side. icy conditions on interstates from

new york. >> to. >> colorado, causing dozens of vehicles to spin out of control, creating two. >> massive pileups monday. >> over 80 million. >> people are. >> under extreme cold warnings, with an arctic blast spanning from central texas to the canadian border and. >> wind chills as. >> low. as 50 degrees below zero. blasting states like montana and minnesota. >> the national weather. >> service warning of, quote, life threatening. cold in north dakota. trucks salting. >> the streets. >> in texas, where officials. >> there warning. >> this could. >> be the coldest weather. >> event of. >> the year. a reminder of 2020. >> one's power grid. >> catastrophe that ended nearly. 250 lives. >> governor abbott expressing. >> confidence a crisis like that will not happen again. >> the power grid has never. >> been stronger than it is now. >> across kentucky, thousands remain without power and safe drinking water after a weekend of deadly. flash flooding. >> that killed. >> at least 14 people across three states and prompted more

than 1000 rescues that are still ongoing. >> nbc's adrian broaddus reporting will follow that. and still ahead on morning joe, the diplomatic talks between u.s. and russian officials in saudi arabia have wrapped up after more than four hours. we'll have the latest on those discussions and the possibility of a peace deal for ukraine. morning joe is coming right back. >> you are? >> i can see why you're. >> expanding its nuts online to. >> what's the secret? >> we know humans like new toys. >> so always staying. >> one step ahead. >> and with ai, we can look at so much more than sales data by our behaviors. social engagement. see that? predictive analytics. >> how long have. >> you. >> been doing this? >> as long as we've been with. >> as long as we've been with. >> people who shipstation lets you keep up with the growth of your business. you can sync inventory and manage returns across all your sales channels.

so you ship the right products, to the right customers. ♪♪ head to shipstation.com to start your free trial. it all started with a small business idea. it's a pillow with a speaker in it! that's right craig. pulling in the perfect team to get the job done. i'm just here for the internets. at&t, it's super-fast! you locked us out?! and when thrown a curveball... arrggghh! ahhhh! [crashing sounds] we had everything we needed. is the internet out? don't worry, we have at&t internet back-up. the next level network for small business. ♪♪ i sold a pillow! everything. >> those ice cream machines, dessert bar tray. that guy's hat. >> we're gonna go through

yesterday's plane crash in toronto, where, miraculously, everyone on board survived after a delta jet flipped over on the runway. it comes as the trump administration continues its move to gut the federal workforce, including employees at the faa. plus, we'll bring you an update on the fallout inside the new york city mayor's office over the justice department's move to dismiss corruption charges against mayor eric adams. with us, we have the co-host of the fourth hour and

contributing writer at the atlantic, jonathan lemire, the host of way too early. ali vitali, pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the washington post. eugene robinson is with us, msnbc political analyst. anand giridharadas, he's publisher of the newsletter the ink, available on substack, and a columnist and associate editor for the washington post. david ignatius is with us here in washington. and we begin with the diplomatic talks between u.s. and russian officials in saudi arabia. secretary of state marco rubio is meeting with a russian delegation led by foreign minister sergey lavrov. the group is supposed to discuss options for ending russia's invasion of ukraine, but the talks have drawn criticism for not including any ukrainian officials. this is a first face to face meeting between a u.s. secretary of state and their

russian counterpart since january of 2022. meanwhile, leaders from across europe met in paris yesterday to align their position on ukraine after being excluded from the talks between the united states and russia. hosted by french president emmanuel macron. the leaders of the u.k, the e.u. and germany were in attendance, among others. macron spoke with president trump before the meeting. he then later spoke with ukrainian president zelenskyy, who posted on social media saying macron had briefed him on what was discussed. the meeting of europe's leaders comes as concerns rise over today's talks in saudi arabia between russian and u.s. officials. and joe, i guess a lot of concern about how these talks are going down. >> well, yeah, a lot of concern about how the talks are going down and deja vu all over again.

as yogi berra would say, going back to the first trump administration, when at some point angela merkel just told other european leaders, we're just not going to be able to depend on the united states anymore. and that's right. now what eu leaders and zelensky are starting to believe. let's bring in nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons. he's live from the saudi arabian capital. keir, what can you tell us? well, joe, we caught up with minister. >> lavrov. >> the russian foreign minister here at the ritz carlton hotel a few hours ago. he was tight lipped. the delegations are staying here, but the meetings are happening in a saudi arabian palace near to here, convened by the crown prince and the saudi arabian. foreign minister. there is a shot of the delegation sitting opposite each other at a table, looking fairly sober, as certainly they should do,

because these are going to be very, very difficult talks. they are formal talks, albeit hastily organized, and they seem to change that they will take place, that the time seemed to change. the location has seemed to change, but they are now underway that the pool team that are there for the talks say they've been happening now for around. >> 2.5 hours. >> with a 15 minute break that the two sides plan to break for lunch. what they are talking about is an interesting question. >> one of them. >> here, kirill dmitriev, who is not at that table, but. >> but he is. >> here at u.s. officials believe that he is close to president putin's daughter. he is, if you like. i mean, president trump has envoys. he is, if you like, one of president putin's envoys. he is here very clearly talking about wanting sanctions to be lifted. he himself is sanctioned by the united states. and there i think you have an example of.

>> what the russians. >> are are really looking for. they are looking to try to end russia's isolation, as well as president trump saying that he wants to try to end the war in ukraine. as you mentioned, president zelenskyy is not here. he is in turkey saying last night. that ukraine will simply not agree to anything, agreed at a meeting that ukraine is not part of. there have been reports that he would come here to saudi arabia tomorrow. we don't. >> know whether. >> that is the case. certainly there will be no signs. sign of the europeans here. you mentioned that meeting in paris yesterday. frankly, european leaders in disarray, unable to agree again, even whether they will be prepared to send troops into ukraine to try to sustain any kind of ceasefire, if there is one, i should say, the trump administration being clear that these. this is a test, if you like, that they're going to see how serious. >> the russians are.

>> and i was going to ask you here about the if there's any methodo what appears to our european allies to be madness, excluding the ukrainians from these talks, are it have you talked to any u.s. officials or russian officials that have said this is step one? we're going to see if there there's a broad outline on what we could negotiate and then have the ukrainians brought in. or is all this being done on a very ad hoc basis? i think it's fair to call it joe, a work in progress. certainly there are developments, aren't there? this is historic. it's extraordinary. honestly. i mean, let's keep in mind these are the first formal talks between the us, between us and russia officials since the russia's illegal invasion of ukraine. i should say that, though, that president trump's envoy on ukraine and russia, keith kellogg, gave a briefing

last night in which he said that he will be in ukraine this week for three days and that he intends to go back and back and a bipartisan delegation from the hill are in europe right now, trying to calm nerves in kyiv and other european capitals, saying, of course ukraine will be at the table. the question, though, of course, is what exactly the us is negotiating right. >> now. >> with the russians behind closed doors. you had the defense. >> the secretary of. >> defense, pete hegseth, saying in that speech to nato that the potential for ukraine to be in nato is not on the table. that even if there is some kind of a security force, it would have to be europeans and non europeans, not the us, and it couldn't be covered under article five, which is of course that all sides defend each other. article in the nato agreement. so that

seemed to be giving a lot of ground to the russians. but just one other point. again, though, a counterpoint. >> to that. >> i mentioned that the russians are here clearly arguing that sanctions should be lifted. the heavy sanctions on russia are an enormous piece of leverage that the us has. >> another point before i wrap. >> up to joe, just to say, of course, these divisions between europe and the states, well, the europeans have sanctions. >> on russia too. so if you want to lift. sanctions on russia somewhere down the. >> line, you need the europeans to help. all right. nbc's keir simmons in saudi arabia, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. you know, david, we're talking about the fault lines here is talking about the fault lines that are running obviously through the eu. on the response to the united states, also between the eu and the united states because of this, when it comes to ukraine and coming to the possibility of a peace deal without the ukrainians being a big part of it, there are also

fault lines in the republican party. we'll remember back to the first trump administration, where donald trump would say things in helsinki, and it would seem that the republicans in the u.s. senate would go the extra mile to make the sanctions even tougher on vladimir putin. i have, in my reporting, i'm sure, in your reporting, while it seems republicans have acquiesced to donald trump in so many ways, i will say the hard liners and there are a lot of them in the us senate, as well as in the in the house. they still feel the same that ukraine has to be a part of this process. and putin can be given no gifts by this administration. what are you hearing? >> so i'm hearing the same thing. i think for many republicans. >> ukraine remains a red line. >> senator lindsey. >> graham. >> president trump's golf. >> buddy. >> sometimes described. >> as a. >> trump whisperer. >> told me in munich over the weekend that a bad deal on

ukraine would be the biggest mistake. >> for the united. states since. >> the. >> end of the. >> second world war. he's trying. very hard to keep trump from making. >> the kind. of concessionary deal to. >> putin that. would mark a radical shift. >> my sense, joe, is that the. >> conversations that are taking. place today in. >> saudi arabia. >> are. >> as russian officials have said. >> more about the normalization. >> of relations between. >> the u.s. and russia after these three years. of complete. antagonism than anything else. >> there are many issues that that at. >> that superpower level. >> that are crucial to russia. >> sanctions is. >> part. of it. but think of. >> all the. >> billions. >> the hundreds. >> of billions. of dollars in russian. assets that are being. >> held outside of. >> russia. russian control. >> that would be at. >> the top of the. >> list that you'd want to have u.s. russian. conversations about. the worry is. that what is really going.

>> on is. >> making a deal behind. ukraine's back. >> that will then be. >> imposed on ukraine by the u.s. and russia. that would that would. >> be dreadful. >> we'll have to. >> see if. >> that's. >> what's what's in store. >> yeah, that's what i've been told as well. real alarm from european diplomats that, yes, even if on the surface, what we're seeing today in riyadh is more about u.s. russia relations. and of course, they believe that a ukraine deal could become part of this, that some parameters could be sketched out. and obviously, zelenskyy and his emissaries not at the table. i'm also told, yes, that there's been a little bit of republican pushback we heard in the last couple of days from republican senators suggesting not outright criticism of trump, but perhaps warnings, saying, well, we need to get a deal here. ukraine should be included and includes senator thom tillis, who is in kyiv with a couple of other senators yesterday echoing that. but i'm told the trump administration itself, like they're not really listening to that. yes. will, is it possible? yes. but they also feel like at this point they have so much momentum and political capital. if they want to make a deal,

they'll ignore the senate. they're not going to kowtow to what the gop leaders want. they're in the upper chamber. and we know, mika, certainly. i've been told again over the weekend how much president trump prized this relationship with russian president putin, that he wants to be seen as the one restoring ties with moscow, concerned that they are the other nuclear superpower, that he wants that to be part of his legacy to normalize those relations again. and it's and it could be ukraine is just sort of a small piece of a much larger puzzle for him. >> coming up, what we're learning this morning about a terrifying incident in canada where a plane crashed and flipped over at the toronto airport. morning joe is back in airport. morning joe is back in i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms... ...with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after trying a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel,

rinvoq works differently. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling as fast as 2 weeks for some. and even at the 3-year mark, many people felt this relief. rinvoq can stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower ability to fight infections. before treatment, test for tb and do bloodwork. serious infections, blood clots, some fatal; ...cancers, including lymphoma and skin; serious allergic reactions; gi tears; death; heart attack; and stroke occurred. cv event risk increases in age 50 plus with a heart disease risk factor. tell your doctor if you've had these events, infection, hep b or c, smoked, are pregnant or planning. don't take if allergic or have an infection. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what's yours. (♪♪) >> brand on everything. >> so customers can notice you. >> remember you, and fall in

>> remember you, and fall in love tons of sweet dentists on zocdoc. dr. stafford's a real beauty. and people say he's passionate about dentistry! dr. taylor's on thirty-third street... we could practically skate there! booked it! sweet! you've got options. book now. ♪♪ toronto pearson international airport yesterday. this is the moment a delta airlines flight with 80 people on board from minneapolis ended upside down on the runway. emergency workers on the scene raced to evacuate passengers. two passengers, believed to be in critical condition, were airlifted to a nearby trauma center, while one child was rushed to a children's hospital. several others sustained minor injuries. here is cell phone video that captured the chaotic scene. there you can see crew members

helping passengers escape through emergency exits. snow was blowing at the airport all day, but snow was not supported on radar or radars at the time of the accident. the fire chief stated that the runway was dry and there were no crosswind conditions. when the delta plane overturned. incredibly, no deaths reported. here is how one passenger recounted the crash. >> when we. >> hit, it was just a super hard like hit the ground and the plane went sideways. and i believe we skidded, like on our side and then flipped over on our back. where we. ended up, there was like a big fireball out this left side of the plane. and when we got finished, it was i was upside down. everybody else was there as well. i think thankfully, everybody was okay. but we tried to get out of there as quickly. >> as possible.

>> thankfully, thankfully, everybody was okay. mika i mean, but this following up on what you were saying earlier today, i mean, there obviously. earlier this morning, there's. obviously great concern about the safety of flying right now given the accidents that have happened. >> the federal. >> aviation administration said the washington post this morning. they go hundreds of technicians and engineers just weeks after a mid-air collision miles from the white house killed 67 people. a listing promises from trump officials to improve air safety, workers said in interviews. it's something we've been talking about on this show since covid, since after covid and something that we've been hearing about and reporting on. and of course, this is this was in toronto. it originated, of course, in, in in minnesota. >> in. >> the us. but but you know. >> you have. >> the accident in washington dc. and then there are these immediate claims of die, which

of course, and immediate claims on who's at fault. nobody knows. that's why we have ntsb, and that's why a lot of those investigations can take. >> up to years. >> but we said following covid we had a pilot shortage. they're hiring a lot of very young pilots right now. getting rid of a lot of because of age limits, a lot of experienced pilots. we were talking about how that was really a terrible mistake, but also talked about our concerns with all of the shortages, including shortages of the faa, including shortages that we had up in the towers with with air traffic controllers. i mean, this is a system that actually needs to be built upon post covid. and here we are, three, 4 or 5 years later. this is not the time to cut from the faa. and that's the problem when you have this this one size fits all approach. you know, the argument that government is wasteful. and

yes, there's waste, fraud and abuse. gene robinson. waste, fraud and abuse in all parts of in all parts of government. we've been saying that for 30 years. i've been saying that for 30 years. republicans have been saying that for 30 years. democrats have been saying that for 30 years. al gore said it, you know, in 2000. but this is not the time to just go in with anything other than a scalpel. when you're talking about agencies like the faa and just getting rid of getting rid of people for a political statement. >> yeah, i believe there's one federal worker quoted in in our story this morning as saying, this is like trying to trim away, getting a steak and trying to trim away the fat with a sledgehammer. it's ridiculous. and dangerous, frankly, because we're especially when you're talking about something like aviation. but this is happening all over the government. the sort of indiscriminate firings

of probationary employees. basically, who haven't been there long enough to have full civil service protections, which can be a year or more. and without regard to their performance or or what their function is or how much they're needed. it is a mess. and it is going to take some time to, to straighten out. you saw the other day that that doge got rid of a bunch of the workers who are responsible for our nuclear weapons and making making them safe, and then had to quickly try to rehire them because they shouldn't have been fired in the first place. this is and i think that's happening all over the government. waste, fraud and abuse. yes, but do it. do it with a scalpel, not a

sledgehammer. >> and lawfully. we're going to get to on on more on this. but first let's talk about the crash itself and this issue with nbc news aviation analyst john cox. he's a former pilot and accident investigator with more than 20 years experience. on the topic of the faa firings. the union says these firings didn't account for the already understaffed workforce, mission critical needs and public safety. do you have any insight? and you may not, as to whether or not these firings could impact safety within the faa? >> i think from what i've heard, some of the people that were released were maintenance workers. we have an older system within the us as far as the electronics, the radar systems and so forth, and it requires a lot of maintenance. so i'm a little concerned that we have the number of maintainers that we need. i think the impact

would be not so much on safety as capacity. so if the system can't accept all the airplanes that need to go from one city to another, it's going to have an operational impact. so i think there that's going to be the first place that we see anything. >> john, let's talk about the crash yesterday in toronto. and i think you'll remember, like me, we were probably about the same age. i always whenever i'm looking at gusts in the 30s, you know yesterday gusts up to 39 miles an hour. i go back to that 1980s crash in dallas fort worth, the wind shear crash that shoved the delta jet into the ground. i'm not saying this is the same thing. i'm just talking about windy conditions. and i'm always i'm always concerned about wind gusts. i saw wind gusts yesterday going up to 39 miles an hour yesterday. do you think that that could have been as you look at the facts and we're of course, just seeing

through a glass darkly right now. are you concerned primarily about wind or possible ice on the runway? >> i don't think ice on the runway. toronto is an extremely good airport about snow removal. so i don't think we're going to see much in the way of ice problems there. as for the wind, it was gusty. it was windy. but these are conditions that professional pilots fly in regularly. the crosswind was there was some crosswind there. and but here again this these are skills that pilots have. we will learn what actually happened here. the fact that that right wing is missing. i think is a very key element for the investigators to look at. what caused that wing to come off and separate those. this airplane is a is a veteran airplane. it's been in service for decades. so it's well built. it's well certified. so what

happened here? i think we'll know in short order because i think they'll get the flight recorders, both of them. i think they'll get them today. >> i think it was a crj 900. and yeah, they have a very good safety record. i wanted i wanted to ask you, though, a plane landing. could a plane like a canadian regional jet going down a runway landing. if it were hit by 40 mile, an hour gust of wind, could that flip a plane over itself? no no no no no. >> no no. the fact that when you think about it, the airplane was landing in the neighborhood of about 120, 130 knots. so even an 8 or 10 knot gust is not going to dramatically affect the lift on the wing asymmetrically. so, no, that in itself is not going to cause it. whether the wing dipped and potentially struck

the runway, that's something that's a possibility they will look at. but here again the bank angle will be recorded by the flight data recorder. and that will tell exactly what happened here. >> well talk about how difficult it is when a pilot is landing. and let's say you have gusts 30, 35, 40 miles an hour. and they, they cut across the they cut across the runway. how difficult is it for the pilot to keep those wings parallel to the ground? is it possible that a wind gust may have shoved one of the wings into the ground? >> i think that's something that they'll certainly look at when you are in a crosswind condition like this. and the gusts were in the neighborhood of 10 to 15 miles an hour. the total wind was up about 40 miles an hour, but it was about 30 gusts to 40 in that range. so as you track down the toward the runway, you're actually have the nose of

the airplane pointed more into the wind so that the ground track is on the center line. as you get in right over the runway, you align the nose of the airplane with the center line, and you lower the upwind wing down a little bit to help slow the wind from pushing you on sideways on the runway. and that's about the point where you touch down. what happened here? we don't know yet, but that's that is the time frame that the investigators are going to look at in depth. >> coming up, the latest on the controversy surrounding new york city mayor eric adams as the governor weighs whether to remove him from office. morning remove him from office. morning joe is coming right back. socks, underwear and t-shirts are the most requested items in homeless shelters. bombas was founded to help. so one purchased equals one donated, with 140 million donations and counting. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order.

need a shipping solution that'll grow with you? with shipstation, you can manage and fulfill all your orders in one place. plus, you get more carrier options, at the lowest rates. keep your business growing. head to shipstation.com to start your free trial. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? is there somebody i can talk to for help? [tree falls] i got somebody for that! (♪♪) i got somebody for that. (♪♪) i got somebody for that! you guys got somebody for peyronie's disease? (♪♪) there's hope for the estimated 1 in 10 men who may have peyronie's disease, or pd. a urology specialist... who treats pd can help you create a plan including nonsurgical options. find somebody today at gogetsomebody.com (sigh) (snoring)

if you struggle with cpap... you should check out inspire. honey? inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com after last month's massive solar flare added a 25th hour to the day, businesses are wondering "what should we do with it?" i'm thinking company wide power nap. [ employees snoring ] anything can change the world of work. from hr to payroll, adp designs for the next anything. redness. >> in one minute. >> and look at the difference. my eyes look. brighter and whiter. whiter. >> for up to eight hours. cidp is no walk in the park. that's true. but i take vyvgart hytrulo. same! it's the first major innovation in cidp treatment in over 30 years. vyvgart hytrulo has been proven to significantly reduce the risk

of symptoms getting worse. and my cidp can be treated with once-weekly injections that take about 30 to 90 seconds. do not use vyvgart hytrulo if you have a serious allergy to any of its ingredients. serious allergic reactions, like trouble breathing and decrease in blood pressure leading to fainting, and allergic reactions such as rashes, swelling under the skin, shortness of breath, and hives have been reported. the most common side effects are respiratory and urinary tract infections, headache, and injection site reactions. it may increase the risk of infusion-related reactions and infection. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. i'm hittin' fairways with the fellas. i'm hittin' the road with my number 1. ♪♪ that's how we live vyvidly with vyvgart hytrulo. visit livevyvidly.com or talk to your neurologist. ♪♪ when i started walton goggins goggle glasses, i had no idea what i was doing. but godaddy airo does. using ai to build a logo, website and social content. so i can let the world know, if your goggles ain't goggins,

they don't belong on your noggins! her guests explore how the democratic party is facing this political moment and where it's headed next. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. it's president trump's first 100 days, and rachel maddow and alex wagner will be bringing clarity to the policies being implemented. alex will be in the field reporting from the front lines. >> what issue matters to you the most? >> and rachel will be hosting five nights a week. >> important stories are going to be told through field work and frontline reporting about the consequences of government action. >> alex wagner, reporting from across the country and the rachel maddow show weeknights at nine on msnbc. >> imagine him going inside saying. that the only. >> way mayor adams is. >> going to assist in

immigration, which i was calling for since 2022, is if you drop the charges. that's quid pro quo. >> that's a crime. if he doesn't come through, i'll. >> be. back in. >> new york city and we won't be sitting on a couch. >> i'll be in his office. >> up, up his butt saying, where the. >> hell is the agreement we. >> came to? >> an agreement. that was mayor eric. >> what a paypal. wait, wait, did he say that? did he say the quiet part out loud? what? the agreement we had and. >> and the agreement. >> the what? the. without prejudice. >> yeah. okay. that was mayor eric adams. and you don't see. >> that every day, do you? >> you don't see. >> that every day. remember the administration threatening the mayor of new york city, who has just gotten his criminal charges dropped? >> everyone okay without in the conversation?

>> right? without prejudice, saying basically, if he, you know, they they can bring the charges back. and people were concerned about a deal and talked about a deal. i wonder what that deal was. okay. transparency there. >> so again, what we just saw was mayor eric adams and border czar tom homan in a moment where a lot of people say was quid pro quo, playing out in real time. when both appeared on fox news friday. this has four top officials in the new york city mayor's office have resigned, and the controversy over the justice department's move to dismiss corruption charges against mayor eric adams, the city's first deputy mayor, and three other deputy mayors all announced they would leave city hall yesterday, a significant blow to adams as the officials oversee much of the operations of the city's government. in a

statement, adams said he understood their decision and wished them well. he also clarified that all four deputy mayors will remain in place for now as a transition period. in response, new york state governor kathy hochul called for a meeting today to discuss the mayor's future. the governor does officially have the authority to remove a mayor from office, but those powers have never been used in the state's history. in a statement, governor hochul noted the gravity of such a decision, writing in part overturning the will of the voters is a serious step that should not be taken lightly. that said, the alleged conduct at city hall that has been reported over the past two weeks is troubling and cannot be ignored. the mayor's office has been embroiled in controversy since last year, when mayor adams was indicted on federal bribery charges. he has maintained his innocence. apparently, more charges were

coming. anand, you have a new essay out just this morning on the inc entitled home of the brave. really? and you write in part, quote this. as i write this, there are scattered and inspiring examples of bravery all around us prosecutors, judges, even the occasional lawmaker. but in the main, we are proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are not the home of the brave. we are a country full of people smilingly capitulating to a tyrant. you go on to write. maybe it was always a mistake to count on these big institutions to protect us. they haven't been for some time now. yes, there are a handful of brave lawmakers, brave judges, brave media voices, brave others. but in general, it is now very clear after this first month that no one is coming to save us. it's time to take back our country, not only from this

authoritarian nightmare, but also from the collaborators to insipid and weak and chicken. you know what? to skinless and boneless. to stand up for us. so, anand, i don't know if you want to name names, but we have a lot of different things going on and a lot of different directions. the story i just reported, mayor adams, new york city. we also have some very controversial nominations being voted on soon. and yet, as you said, it appears nobody really wants to stand up in unison and say no. >> yeah. and first of all, the earlier clip, you don't often hear quid pro quo and up his butt in the same conversation. so that's the territory we're now in. >> i noticed. >> latin and english bilingual. you know, this is a moment. it's actually something the mayor said. mayor adams said that got me thinking about this essay. he used two simple words to describe what you saw on that

sofa. he said, i'm collaborating. i'm collaborating. i don't know personally if the mayor has a sense of history, but anybody who does have a sense of history and is familiar with the history of authoritarianism around the world knows that i'm collaborating is a sentence with some meaning. and it got me thinking about the idea of collaboration and the fact that the mayor, who for the sake of his own narrow freedom, tried to make a deal to turn this city that is a city made of immigrants, america's immigrant city, into a city home to trump's immigration raids. but but collaboration really is a broader metaphor. we're seeing it with newspaper owners who won't stand up to donald trump, or seeing it with companies that are settling lawsuits, frivolous lawsuits to appease donald trump to protect their wider commercial interests. we're seeing it with so many in in the democratic so-called opposition, where except for a few, you

know, exceptions like senator chris murphy and aoc and others, most democratic lawmakers turn out to have no spine. but that was not disclosed on their medical forms. and we're just seeing again and again and again again with these scattered exceptions that are very important, some prosecutors and others, we're seeing that we're just not that brave a country in our core. and i think it's very it's a it's a different self-image than, than the self-image we have. i think americans think of themselves as brave. we think of ourselves as the country that stood up to authoritarianism and fascism in world war two and saved europe. we think of ourselves as, as as a country full of spine. and we are seeing again and again whether it's the mayor, whether it's leaders of media, whether it's ceos stripping out the diversity programs, throwing their own employees under the bus with his university leaders, not standing up for their faculty. this is a country going boneless. and it's time, i think, for regular people to

stand up, as they did yesterday in these 5051 protests across the country. it is time for regular people to stop counting on people with too much skin in the game to be brave. i think the bravery is going to come from below. >> coming up, new reporting that the department of homeland security could be hit with more firings this week. nbc's julia ainsley joins us to explain who may be on the chopping block as the trump administration the trump administration continues this is steve. steve takes voquezna. this is steve's stomach, where voquezna can kick some acid, heal erosive esophagitis, also known as erosive gerd, and relieve related heartburn. voquezna is the first and only fda-approved treatment of its kind. 93% of adults were healed by 2 months. of those healed, 79% stayed healed. plus, voquezna can provide heartburn-free days and nights, and is also approved to relieve heartburn related to non-erosive gerd.

other serious stomach conditions may exist. don't take if allergic to voquezna or while on rilpivirine. serious allergic reactions include trouble breathing, rash, itching, and swelling of face, lips, tongue, or throat. serious side effects may include kidney problems, intestinal infection, fractures, life-threatening skin reactions, low b-12 or magnesium levels, and stomach growths. tell your doctor about your medical conditions, medications, and if you have diarrhea, persistent stomach pain or fever, decreased or bloody urine, seizures, dizziness, irregular heartbeat, jitteriness, chills, shortness of breath, muscle aches or weakness, spasms of hands, feet, or voice. voquezna can help kick some acid, and so can you. ask your doctor about voquezna. asthma. does it have you missing out on what you love with who you love? it's time to get back out there with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks and can also be taken conveniently at home.

fasenra helps prevent asthma attacks. most patients did not have an attack in the first year. fasenra is proven to help you breathe better so you can get back to doing day-to-day activities. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems. serious allergic reactions may occur. get help for swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens or you have a parasitic infection. headache and sore throat may occur. get back to better breathing. get back to what you've missed. ask your doctor about fasenra, the only asthma treatment taken once every 8 weeks. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. (♪♪) inflammation support. why qanon? it has. superior absorption co

for seniors, and in just seconds, you can use the free calculator@abacus.com to learn. >> what your policy might be worth. >> for many of my clients. >> selling their. >> life insurance to abacus was. >> right for. >> them and their estate plan. >> don't sell or lapse your. policy without. >> going to. >> abacus.com first. >> there are no fees. >> and no obligations. >> get the real value from your life insurance when you need it. with abacus. >> i'm the son and the. >> nbc news has learned the trump administration is preparing to fire hundreds of high level employees within the department of homeland security. three sources familiar with the matter say the administration has a, quote, centralized plan and a list of people in high level positions across every component of dhs who would be

let go. this week, the new firings would come in addition to hundreds of cuts that began across dhs on friday night. joining us now, nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. julia, what more can you tell us about this? >> well, mika, this is separate. >> from what we've been talking about with doj. >> and the big. >> push to try to really downsize. >> the federal government. >> this is a list that was identified by the transition team, and then the landing team of trump loyalists who came in to dhs. and they're looking even across ice. >> and. >> cbp as trump tries to make good on this campaign promise of mass deportations. what they want to. >> do. >> is take out high level employees. we know washington speak. they're called ses senior executive service. these are people in manager positions, policy people, strategy. people who are coming up with how they're going to carry out the wishes of the administration. >> and their career. >> many of them served under the. first trump administration, served under biden, and they're still here now. but it's anyone who isn't seeing not only not

obstinate, but someone who is not loyal to trump. and if they haven't gone far enough to show that loyalty, a lot of these people could now be fired. we understand that they're across every component. >> how do they show their loyalty? like what? how do they assess this? >> if there's. >> anything in a meeting where they feel like they're not on on the same page, if there's any suspicion they may have leaked, even if it's just a confirmation of something pretty basic to the media. there are a number of ways that they've come up with this list. if they don't think that they've told their subordinates to carry out the plans and the wishes. these are now people on this target list. >> so tell me. >> about what the impact of that actually is within the agency. and what are the career folks telling you as they watch their counterparts or even themselves on the chopping block here? >> you know, i heard it's a really scary time, even for former people who stay in touch with their colleagues. they're told. >> look, i. >> can't even have you on my phone records right now. there's such an. insular place right now for people who want to keep their jobs and want to keep doing the jobs that they've been doing in many times for, you

know, more than ten. >> years. >> even more than at dhs has only been around since 2003. but a lot of people who really feel that they've devoted their careers to this and want to keep doing that, it's really similar to what we saw over. >> the weekend. >> two in immigration. >> judges were fired. >> it doesn't seem to make sense when you want a big scale deportation force in this country, and you want more people out, why would. >> you get rid. >> of the judges? >> coming up, pablo torre is here to talk about some of the early headlines coming out of mlb spring training and other big stories from around the sports world. morning joe is coming right back. >> now on her twitter feed. pulling mussels for michelle. pulling mussels for michelle. pulling mussels for michelle. got eyelid itching, crusties and swelling that won't go away? it could be... demodex blepharitis! and we're demodex mites. we're very common and super irritating to your eyelids...

but we love making ourselves comfortable here! oh, yeah...steam time! if demodex mites are partying it up on your eyelids... it's time to eliminate the root of the problem with xdemvy. with one drop in each eye twice a day... you can kill the mites in just six weeks. xdemvy is the first and only fda-approved treatment that kills the mites that cause demodex blepharitis, a common eyelid disease. avoid touching the tip of the bottle to your eye or other surfaces to minimize contamination. wait 15 minutes before inserting contact lenses. in clinical trials, the most common side effects were stinging and burning in one out of ten patients. party's over folks.... it's not you, it's demodex mites. talk to your eye doctor today. everything so. >> customers can notice. >> you, remember you, and fall doctor box, >> you, remember you, and fall in love with you if

there were many failed attempts to fix my teeth. i retouched all my wedding photos, and it was even affecting my health. i trusted you because you specialize in dental implants. you created a permanent solution and customized my teeth so it still felt like me. my new teeth have improved my life and changed my future. - thank you. - you're so welcome. finance the smile you want for as low as one forty eight a month per arch. schedule a free consultation. whenever my customers ask how to get a better price on their meds, i tell them about single care. it's a free app accepted at pharmacies nationwide. >> before i. >> pick up my prescription, i always check the single care price. >> it's quick, easy, and totally free to use. >> single care can literally beat my insurance copay. >> you just search for your prescription and show your single care coupon at the pharmacy. >> sohing for everybody.

>> get any two leggings. >> for just. $24 when you sign

up as a new fabletics vip. >> all of this can be overwhelming, but it is important to remember there are still checks and balances. there's a lot being thrown at the american people right now, and it is really important to pay attention to it, but it is just as important to recognize how many of those things are getting announced. but they're not happening at all, or at least not yet. just try to remember we are not looking at the final score. we are still in the first quarter. keep your pads on. the game has just begun. >> stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the msnbc daily newsletter. get the best of msnbc all in one place. sign up for msnbc daily at msnbc.com. major league baseball players are preparing for their first spring training contest of the season. and jon lemire kind of got a new problem in boston right now. you know,

remember a couple of years ago, we had so few good quality players on on some days, and it looked like a minor league team. you know, you remember late august, tj, our producer, our director went up with his family and they just called him out, asked him to play center field. and you know tj is not. >> that good. >> so but this year we've got a battle over. >> who plays third. >> base already. and devers of course acting like devers saying he wants to stay at third base. >> instead of saying. >> i'll let my coach decide who's going to play. >> third base. >> but there you go. >> new problems for the red. >> sox and i like them. >> i mean, to be fair though, tj did catch the fly ball that was hit his driveway. now granted, it was right at him. he didn't really have to go anywhere. yeah, but look, he caught it. he got it. he hit the cutoff man on a bounce. but still it was a. >> and a, and. >> he was. >> holding a beer in his right hand. so yeah. pretty good to put the beer down through it in

like that. yeah. yeah. >> it was not not a bad play. not a bad play. >> so we're. >> gonna get the red sox, get the red sox in just a second. but sadly, we have to start with the new york yankees. and their captain, aaron judge, spoke to reporters yesterday about the biggest move of the offseason. that, of course, was his former teammate juan soto, heading across town to the mets. >> juan's decision, and his apparent conclusion. >> that he. >> had a better chance to win with. >> the mets and the yankees. >> you know, it's his opinion. he can he can say what he wants. i definitely disagree with him, but. i wasn't i wasn't too surprised by it. >> you know, it's. >> i think that's where he wanted to be. i think that's where it was best for him and his family. and he got a you got a pretty nice deal over there. so i think you can't say no to that. >> but i'm happy. >> for him. you can't replace a guy. >> like juan soto. >> but you. >> bring in guys like this that. >> are. >> you know, all stars, mvps, caliber players. >> you know, it's. >> a pretty good job. >> this show continues to delight in the idea that juan

soto spurned the yankees to head to the mets. so, as joe just mentioned elsewhere in the american league east, maybe there's some trouble brewing in boston and its clubhouse. after the red sox signed free agent third baseman alex bregman. good move. spent some money. got bregman, but but boston's rafael devers, their incumbent third baseman, was adamant yesterday that he's not interested in a scenery change, telling reporters through a translator, quote, third base is my position. we should note he's a below average defensive fielder, while alex bregman, a gold glove winner. let's now bring in the host of pablo torre finds out on meadowlark media and msnbc contributor pablo torre and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. good to see you both. i'm so glad we're talking baseball. >> yeah. >> barnicle and i have just been grunting levels of frustration at you while you. >> do those. >> i know i noticed i, i'm a true professional. >> yeah. look. if you want to pay me $700 million, i will also say that you give me the. best chance to win. just as a general

principle in my life when it comes to juan soto. but i do think that the red sox thing is. interesting because barnicle. >> he's been shouting it down. >> he's been shouting it down. and i want to. >> i want to. >> revel in the. >> shouts because. >> it's funny to me what's happened here. >> devers is going to play where alex cora tells him to play. that's the bottom line. the other guys that joe was mentioning roman, anthony, christian campbell, marcelo mayer, there's a reason they're called prospects because they have not yet played major league baseball. so let's play it out and it's going to be fun. it's going to be fine. >> yeah, i trust alex cora to handle the situation. you know, bregman has said he'll play second base. it'll get sorted out i agree. we also should note some other players moving positions this year. mike trout moving to right field. hopefully he can stay healthy this time around. jose altuve going to the outfield. that's a headline i missed until until this week. and another player doing something different. shohei ohtani back to the pitcher's mound. >> yes. >> look position changes. >> spring training. >> is a time for all sorts of theatrical protestation around. how dare you move.

>> me to. >> the place that i don't see myself being? >> mike trout's. >> doing it, though, because of health. the guy just can't stay healthy. and so he's been. >> i mean, mike, he. >> is as. good a center fielder as. >> we have seen in the history of baseball. that's been. >> the argument. >> and yet he hasn't played 140 games. >> in. seven years. >> he is one of the all time great baseball players. >> yes. >> ranked in the top five top five players of all time until the injury bug hits him. but the bottom line here is, isn't it miraculous and wonderful that we're talking about baseball instead of the other stuff? >> yeah, no, i agree, but at least it's back sign of spring and otherwise. pretty quiet moment on the sports calendar. except except for hockey, because canada and the united states will meet in the nhl's four nation faceoff championship later this week. canada's victory over finland yesterday clinched its spot in the final and a rematch against team usa, who won a brutal battle in

montreal on saturday. how brutal. there were three fights in the game's first nine seconds, but team usa will be hampered by a handful of key injuries, with forward brady tkachuk added to the list last night after he exited the team's two one defeat to sweden in a game that had no bearing on the tournament. usa was already in the finals. that much anticipated final thursday night at boston's td garden. a couple of things to hit on this. first of all, it comes in a moment where everyone is mad at the nba. no one cares about the nba this year. it seems their all star game is terrible. the nhl has hit on this new formula. players really care that representing their country. the quality of play is really high. thursday is going to be great, but there's also a geopolitical angle to this as we have the canadians booing the us national anthem in the wake of the tariffs that president trump wants to. >> yeah. >> look what we're watching here in this tournament, which was. invented as a way to maybe gin up some interest, is the greatest manufactured sporting

event in the recent history of. all star like enterprises. 4.4 million. >> people watched this. >> that is the most for a. >> non stanley cup. >> final since i believe 2019. and the basic principle, mike, is if the. >> players themselves do not. >> care. >> why would the audience. and so now you have. this brew of geopolitics plus just genuine. cultural tribal. >> affiliation among. >> hockey crazed countries that are saying. we want. >> to. >> punch the. >> other country. >> literally in. >> the face. coming up, some republicans are calling on elon musk's doge team to defund planned parenthood. we'll talk to the president of the organization about that effort and the overall state of reproductive care in america. morning joe is back in a moment. >> every time you go away, every >> every time you go away, every time you go away. the way i approach work post fatherhood, has really trying to understand the generation

that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. >> we will give you. >> and doug. >> you'll be back. emus can't help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance. with liberty mutual. you're just. >> a. >> flightless bird. >> you know. >> he's a dreamer, frank. >> came on. >> and doug. >> well, i'll be that bird. really? did it. >> only pay for what. >> only pay for what. >> you need. hi, susan! honey? yeah? i respect that,

but that cough looks pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin, the only brand with true source certified honey. for as long as. for as long as. >> we shall live. tap into etsy for home and style finds like custom shelving for less than 50 dollars to make more space. or linen robes under 75 to get you cozy. for affordable pieces to help you welcome big changes, etsy has it. (♪♪) now for something you can both agree on a sleep number® smart bed is perfect for couples the climate360® smart bed is the only bed that cools and warms on each side and all our smart beds adjust the firmness for each of you.

let's agree to agree on better sleep. and now, save 50% on the new sleep number® limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 48 months. shop now. >> in one minute. >> and look at the difference. my eyes look brighter and whiter. >> for up to eight hours. lumify it's. >> kind of amazing. >> see for yourself. >> skating for over 45 years has. >> taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation and support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qanon. the brand i trust. >> it's time to. dare to compare. presidents day edition. >> compare our unbeatable. >> prices endorsed by honest day. >> and the competition. by chester arthur.

dave's been very excited about saving big with the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. five years? -five years. and he's not alone. -high five. it's five years of reliable gig speed internet. five years of advanced securit. five years of a great rate that won't change. it's back. but only for a limited time. high five. five years? -nope. comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business.

>> pack up the buick lesabre. >> we're going back to 1996. >> grab your collection of beanie babies and get ready to defrost. >> your dunkaroos. >> because mapquest. >> is showing us the shining path. >> to revolution. and it is an. >> eight. >> page printout. >> that. >> you accidentally. >> did in. >> full color, and. >> your mom. >> is going to. >> kill you. >> for it. >> the toner. >> doesn't grow on trees. skyler, welcome to the fourth hour of morning joe. at 6 a.m. on the west coast, 9 a.m. in the east. joining us now, we have member of the new york times editorial board, mara gay, nbc

news senior business analyst and host of the 11th hour. stephanie ruhle is with us and nbc news national affairs analyst and partner and chief political columnist at puck. john heilemann is here. our top story this hour, u.s. and russian officials have finished their ukraine talks after roughly 4.5 hours in saudi arabia. the state department says in a new readout that both parties agreed to appoint high level teams for peace talks, with the goal of reaching an agreement that both ukraine and russia can agree to. for the very latest, let's bring in nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons, live from the saudi arabian capital. keir. what's the latest? >> well, this meeting took 4.5 hours. it wrapped up just a short while ago. i think headlines as we unpick what happened so far. on the one hand

the trump administration is not hurtling towards a summit between president trump and president putin any time soon. that's not about to happen next week, for example. on the other hand, until now, as you know, mika, russia had been held in isolation by the west, including. europe and the us, the trump administration just unpicked that isolation. so as you mentioned, agreeing, according to secretary of state rubio, to have a high level. conversation about how to get to peace in ukraine. also talking about restoring. >> missions on. >> either side and talking about. cooperation on a geopolitical and an economic level now on an economic level is interesting because that would suggest that somewhere down the line, the trump administration is saying it would be prepared to look at

taking away or reducing those sanctions against russia here at the ritz-carlton hotel in riyadh. we caught up with a man called kirill. >> dmitriev. >> who is very close to president putin. us officials say that he and his wife are close with president putin's daughter. he wasn't at the table, but he's been very much involved in these talks. we just spoke to him outside the ritz-carlton. >> what some of the results of those. >> negotiations have been positive dialog, professional engagement. i think it's very important that the two sides started to listen to each other. you know, dialog and communication was completely broken during. >> the. >> biden administration. so i think there is. >> respectful dialog, and that's very important. >> and frankly. >> when russia and. us do not communicate, it puts the world in a very dangerous place. it's clearly going to be a slow process. it's a slow, difficult process. no meeting between president trump and president putin any time soon. well, i would say it's a long road ahead. >> many differences. >> we need to manage

expectations. >> but this. >> dialog of two, you know, strategic powers in the world is very important. and the world is much safer place now when this dialog started to happen. so we'll have to see how it evolves over time. >> but definitely. >> a very positive start. and by the way, saudi played a really. >> key role. >> in. >> providing good, you know. >> opportunity for this dialog. one word. >> what is what is russia. >> going to compromise on. what will russia. i think it's too. >> early. >> to say. too early to say. >> and joe. >> as i mentioned, we're just now really getting the readout from both sides what happened in that room. i'm going to look down real quick, because foreign minister lavrov of russia is giving a news conference. now, some of the things he's saying, we agree with marco rubio's words that countries should always prioritize their national interests. international interests don't always match, but when they match, it's important that countries use it to cooperate in various areas. >> talking about. >> swiftly finalizing ambassadors appointments. i

mean, there appear to have been a number of agreements. it was a 4.5 hour conversation, though not, of course, a ceasefire in ukraine, you know, in the next. >> 24 hours. >> as president trump has suggested during the election campaign, you know, keir, great reporting there and fascinating comments from russia. i think most diplomats. i would agree that it is. best when countries are talking, obviously. >> after. >> the ukrainian invasion, russia invading ukraine, that wasn't something that the united states felt was, was, was, was possible. but but two sides talking. >> doctor brzezinski. >> would, you know, time and again talk about. >> the. >> importance of people communicating with each other. but if we can just explain the backdrop of this, the wall street journal. lays it. >> out pretty well. europe left. >> out of talks, obviously

sounds alarm. >> that this all. >> of this. >> comes for. >> those that are saying, well why would. >> anybody be so concerned about these talks. it comes against a. backdrop not only of the europeans and the ukrainians being left out of this, but obviously from european leadership still reeling from an address that jd vance. >> gave last week, that the wall. >> street journal editorial page is even coming out expressing their concerns about. yeah, i mean, joe, always sobering, isn't it, to think about what mika's father would think looking on at the events here. look, i will say that this is a this is a clearly a work in progress. i mean, this was a hurried together meeting, no doubt about that. a briefing from general keith kellogg, who, of course, is president trump's envoy for russia and ukraine. overnight. he says in that

briefing that he's going to spend three days in ukraine this week. he's going to go back multiple times and that he's going to brief president trump fully on the ukrainian view, the europeans weren't here. american officials, administration officials making the point. but you can't have every country at the table for every talk. the question i think in many ways now is looking forward. what happens. i mean, it didn't bode. >> well. >> i think, honestly, in paris yesterday that the europeans couldn't even seem to decide what their strategy was if there was a ceasefire, whether they would put boots on. >> the ground. >> to try to support ukraine's security. you can imagine that's why in kyiv they are so nervous about what the plans are in washington. i do think what we have here now is a pause, a slowdown, an opportunity potentially for different sides, us allies to have their say and have their influence, if you

like. but, but, but, but one opinion that we haven't heard from yet and frankly it may be one of the well, it frankly is one of the most important opinions in all of this. and that is from president trump. what will he say on truth social? he's due to give a speech in miami at the ffii, which of course is a saudi backed conference. what will he say there? his his secretary of state, his national security advisor, his envoy, steve witkoff. now, i should imagine racing back to washington to talk about what happened here. but, you know, this is still this is still very much a, a, a moving, a moving picture, a fragile picture. and i think there will be still many worried in europe about. what happens. >> next, what. >> steps happen next, and, and what the russians have managed to achieve here. all right. nbc's keir simmons, as always thank you so much. greatly

appreciate it. and mika keir brings up such a great point. we we've heard got reporting that the us side is saying this is simply restarting talks between the united states and russia. >> keir right. >> there reporting on the fact that the two sides. talked and talked about the. possibility of what a deal might. look like, that both ukraine and russia could agree on. but we've seen time and again already in less than a month time that there there have been explanations for discussions, whether it's on ukraine or the middle east. >> where you've had. >> people in donald trump's administration get out front, try to explain what something means and then be undercut, you know, maybe an hour or two later when he tweets something, talking about how he's going to take over gaza. so we'll have to sit and wait to see what he

says. about these hearings. right now. >> though. >> they are being. characterized as opening talks between the united states and russia, which they hope will lead. to conversations that will bring peace. >> to both sides. >> a peace treaty that would be acceptable. of course, to the ukrainians. >> which it has. >> to be. >> so, joe, you mentioned the wall street journal editorial board writing on sunday that the trump shock comes to europe. and let's let's look at part of the piece here. european allies knew their relationship with the second trump administration would be challenging. even so, the shocks they've received from washington in recent days constitute a crisis. the warning more or less shape up, or the americans are shipping out. and so much of mr. trump's approach to peace talks is all wrong for america's own interests, including mr. hegseth, hint that

the us could agree with the kremlin to reduce american troop numbers in europe. but europe has chosen to put itself in the position of taking others decisions about its security, rather than making its own. a us withdrawal from europe would be a historic mistake and damaging to american interests. but after last week, europe is on notice that mr. trump may be willing to leave the continent to its own devices. and, joe, some might look at this entire approach as the us engaging in self sabotage in a way. >> it is self sabotage. >> i mean. >> you know, this this this is self sabotaging. it's i don't know. >> how many i. >> don't know. >> why more people in the administration don't know this. i don't know why more policymakers don't know this.

certainly the wall street journal editorial page understands this. and certainly people who invest understand this. and certainly people on wall street understand this, and certainly people who trade with europe understands this stuff. the united states, i've said it a million times. >> got the largest. >> gdp in the world. >> we've got a. >> gdp of about. >> $26 trillion. china's is about. >> 1819 trillion. russia's at 1.4 trillion less than texas. and that's that's a great story. but you combine that 26 trillion with the european union's 26 trillion. and then add on great britain's 4 trillion, 5 trillion. and suddenly you see what a behemoth the united states and our european allies are together. >> and it allows. >> us to economically, economically dominate trade economically with our allies, decide where the. >> world is. >> going economically. and that helps americans. i don't again,

this whole kick europe first attitude. >> well. >> gracing a country that has a $1.4 trillion gdp versus again, over 50 trillion, i don't understand it. and we have a secretary of defense. forgive me. i want you to talk about all this so that we have a secretary of defense who has unilaterally gotten out front saying, oh, ukraine won't be in nato, unilaterally said, oh, ukraine is going to have to give up. land, has unilaterally said, oh yeah, the united states could take troops out of europe. we're negotiating against ourselves right now, and we're trying. >> we it. >> appears that we're trying to off. our allies and several relationship that economically, for our own self interest, for the self interest of working americans are. >> our. >> best allies globally.

>> and joe, that same secretary of defense is the one who's making it seem as though russia is our economic peer. they're not in any way. the only peer one could look at is if donald trump is looking at vladimir putin and his ultimate power over russia, his ultimate personal wealth, that he's one of the richest men in the world. the reason this administration could be looking at russia in such a favorable way is the way that oligarchy is formed, is attractive to donald trump, because you have to go back to why donald trump is so keen on these tariffs or more importantly, tariff exemptions. it is the one place where the president sees himself as a potential kingmaker. he loves that we have the next month and a half. well, his secretary of commerce, howard lutnick, is going through country by country, starting in europe, deciding how are we going to play ball, because during this period of time, will those countries or specific companies, you've already seen the president talk about specific industries or companies that

could get exceptions. they like nothing more than than our quote unquote adversaries, who, in europe's case, are our partners to come to us and say, what can we do? how do we do more business with you? these are already our allies. so the big question is, why are we putting that at risk when there are so many risky situations around the world, europe and canada? they're not either. >> and you mentioned howard lutnick, the commerce secretary, expected to be confirmed this very evening. and elsewhere in washington, president trump is pushing forward with his plan to reshape the federal government, with layoffs across a number of agencies continuing over the holiday weekend, nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett hake is bringing us the latest. >> donald trump and elon musk's wrecking ball style overhaul of the. >> federal government. >> which has already terminated thousands of jobs. >> added an. >> agency head. >> this weekend. >> when the acting. >> commissioner of the social. >> security administration resigned. >> according to two sources. career official.

>> michelle king stepping down after. a clash with staffers from elon musk's department of government. >> efficiency over. access to. >> sensitive government records. >> they suspect that there. are tens. >> of millions. >> of deceased. people who are. >> receiving fraudulent. >> social security payments. >> the resignation comes as. >> the fallout. >> continues from. >> a doge. affiliated irs. >> staffers expected. >> access to that agency's. >> computer systems containing. taxpayers personal information. the white house defending that move on monday. >> we are restoring security controls at irs. >> it all. >> comes as. >> presidents day became. >> a day. >> of. >> protest against. >> the president. >> and musk. >> in cities nationwide. >> i think. >> the person who currently occupies the white house has no business being there and is. making a chaotic mess of our country. >> nbc news learning the administration is. >> preparing to fire hundreds. >> of. >> high level homeland. >> security employees. >> this. >> week who were. >> deemed not. >> to be. >> in line. >> with the administration's. >> goals. >> and the faa. layoffs of some 400. probationary employees. >> this. >> weekend, drawing.

>> protests from. >> the workers union. >> these are the folks that make everything happen. so the rest of us that are engaged in aviation safety can make sure that all of that is happening. >> the agency says it continues to hire. >> and onboard air traffic controllers, and has retained employees who perform critical safety functions. >> kate sandlin moved from alabama. >> to maryland. >> in january to take a job as an education. >> outreach specialist with the national institutes of health. >> on saturday, she. became one of. >> at least. >> 1000 employees. >> there to be fired. >> i have no idea how i'm going to recover from this. >> that was garrett haake reporting. and mara, i mean, it is the tech ethos has been to sort of move fast, break things. and if you have to, you go back and try to repair it afterwards. but this is very different. the scope of this, the federal government. these are people's lives. you know, and these are also key services and government functions that impact everyone, whether you live in a red state or a blue state. and it certainly there's a rising sense from democrats and everyday citizens that what musk and team

are doing. in no way is this making the country safer. >> well, first. >> of all. >> there is. >> a pretty. >> good legal case that elon. musk should not even. >> have. >> access to be. >> carrying out. >> this purge. >> that he is. >> and secondly, i would say. >> that we have zero. transparency really into. >> how this. >> is being done. >> really. >> i think the. >> message that the american. >> people need. >> to be. >> hearing more is. that all of. >> this is being. >> done slashing. >> and burning. >> to essentially prepare. >> the country. >> for donald trump's. >> tax cuts. >> to the wealthy. >> and there's got to. >> be a. >> way to pay. >> for that. >> and what's going. >> to happen is that. >> every day. >> americans in their everyday lives are paying for it already. >> we're seeing it in. >> you know, government. >> services that are going. >> to suffer. >> already we've been seeing. >> that the faa. is really not up to. >> the mark. >> at the moment. >> they're being gutted. >> medicaid.

>> medicare. >> every part of the. >> government that touches americans lives. is about to. >> be impacted. >> and it's not. >> clear yet. >> that there's. >> a broad. >> realization of. >> this outside. >> of washington. >> d.c. >> but it. >> it's coming. >> and i. >> think that's one of the questions. >> that i. >> have just. >> as a journalist right now is. >> do everyday americans. >> in the rest. >> of the country. >> understand that this is going to. >> impact their. >> lives in ways that i can't even imagine yet? >> that's part of our. >> job. >> is to. >> explain that this. >> is not just about government. >> workers in washington. >> this is about the irs. >> this is about people's tax returns. >> this is. >> about people's social security. >> nothing is secure right now. >> and the government is not being. remade to be efficient. this is an effort to. >> destroy it. >> and i think that. is the core. >> message that. >> democrats need to. >> be explaining. >> every day. >> in great detail. >> this is not an effort. >> to make things more efficient. >> every american understands

there's ways. >> to make. >> government more efficient. nobody is against that. but this is not an effort. >> to do that. >> this is an effort to destroy the government so that it's easier. >> for oligarchs and. >> the heritage foundation. >> to do whatever they wish. >> well. >> we. >> all i think most americans agree and support the idea that we need to get rid of tax fraud and abuse in government. i mean, it's why i got into politics so many years ago to balance the budget. and we did it four years in a row and we made tough cuts. but you don't balance the budget the way that this is happening right now. i mean. you you talk about how this impacts americans. we're talking about, you know, picking off just randomly laying off people at the faa when actually we need more people in the faa right now. and. you know, they're laying people off there. so you're talking about air safety.

>> for our families. >> you talk. >> about food safety. you're talking. about safety for the air that we. >> breathe. >> for the water that. >> we drink. >> you know, the. >> even even epidemics, if you're talking about. >> the flu. >> and being able to track that down. we're not even talking about pandemics here. there are so many ways the government touches our life. but here's the thing, steph, really. >> quickly to you. and then i'd love to. >> get john in here. here's the thing. what they're cutting won't come close to taking care of. $36 trillion. debt won't come close to bringing down the deficit. the trillion plus deficit won't won't even come close to paying for a fraction of donald trump's proposed tax cuts. so again, it it's. >> it's high risk and low. >> reward because. >> it. >> will not pay for anything

substantial. >> because as i say. >> as i say all the time, defense spending, medicare, medicaid, social security, interest on the debt, that's 85% of the budget right there. and that's what's driving the national debt. >> joe, it doesn't even come close to the daily interest payment we incur covering the tax cuts. but let's just go back to social security for a moment, because elon musk has now put it out there. and you heard that sound bite from the from the press secretary saying, we suspect we suspect that tens of millions of dead americans are receiving social security payments. here's what's super important. let's say that's true. if it is, let's have at it. let's have elon musk at the white house. let's have him testify under oath before congress and show his work, because every american out there wants that cleaned up. so if it's true, let's have at it. but the fact that this is that we're just hearing this in dribs and drabs, but we're putting it. excuse me, elon musk is putting

it out on his social media site where half of his posts he starts with the word bruh. this is the this is the united states of america. and if elon musk is, you know, there's all people out there going, listen, aren't we lucky that the most successful businessman of our time is taking his time to do this? sure. you know what? i'll buy that. but can you imagine when hank paulson was the treasury secretary, if he maintained his position as chairman and ceo of goldman sachs while he was our treasury secretary? that's where we are. let me just say this. elon musk's seven companies have received $20 billion in government contracts, and he is still running these companies and has no has had no significant security clearance. we're allowed to ask for more. >> yeah. and some of these government agencies have been looking into business practices by some of the musk owned companies. >> yes. you know, all those investigations and lawsuits though, are gone now. >> yeah. all all of them gone. and tomorrow's point, no transparency whatsoever. so john

hammond, let's turn to the politics of this, because as a bunch of folks just said, yes, broadly speaking, the 30,000 foot level, you know, cutting government waste, cutting government fraud, that's all popular. americans like that. but it also does seem that people don't really understand what's going on, how this could impact their lives. do you see this becoming something more of a political story, maybe a thorny one for the trump people, or in this immediate ecosystem where it's just this fire hose and it's impossible to keep track of anything? do you think that largely people will just nod and say, okay, look, he's busy, he's doing things? >> well, jonathan, i. >> think the question. >> is there are going to be a lot of people who supported donald trump, probably all of them who are going to applaud these cuts and, and think that that the impression that they're being given that major efforts are being made to reduce the size and scope of government in

a reasonable way, get rid of waste, fraud and abuse. you know, joe, one of the few people around who has the memory that some of us do of commission after commission that we've seen in our careers that have gone in to try to tackle the deficit, to tackle the debt and have looked at the problem, have said, you know, we're going to we're going to get after this here, we're going to tackle, we're going to get waste, fraud and abuse. and they got it. and they found a little bit of waste and a little bit of fraud and a little bit of abuse. and then they looked up and saw the 85% of federal spending that went to those big entitlement programs and defense spending and interest on the debt, as joe said, and realized, well, unless we're willing to take on entitlement reform, unless we're willing to take on defense spending, we're not going to get anywhere. elon musk, i think, came in not understanding that the doge team did not get that. they came up against that reality. and now, having made grandiose promises about reducing the size and scope of government, are now doing this kind of willy nilly across the board cutting that that, to your point about the firehose, creates the.

impression and for the individuals who are being fired is obviously very consequential. but the overall size and scope of government, even with the things they're doing right now, is not going to be reduced very much. and certainly the spending is not. so i think that there's a lot of people who are going to think these headlines constitute progress. and i think there are a lot of people who are going to who oppose donald trump from the very beginning, who are going to think this is a disaster. and i think the question in the. middle is for those people who are the do some of these cuts start to impact people in their daily lives in a in a tangible way? and, you know, i'll just say of all of the headlines i've seen so far of the entire trump 2.0 period, the nbc news headline over the weekend about the nuclear safety cuts is truly. >> is truly one. >> of the greatest headlines, one of the most appalling and hilarious in a way, onion style headline. >> trump administration. >> wants to fire nuclear safety workers but can't figure out how to reach them. that is a headline that is truly, if you

pulled it from the onion a year ago, you would have thought it was really funny. and that epitomizes. >> the entire. >> approach of the administration. it's madness, but the politics of it remain unclear, and i think we're going to find out a lot more about that once the tax cutting effort really starts. >> i actually thought it was the onion. i had to read it a few times for personal finances. individual investors are growing more bearish. a new survey finds over 47% expect stock prices to fall over the next six months. investors point to a combination of trade war threats, tumultuous policy changes and stubborn inflation as the primary reasons. let's bring in the co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box and a new york times columnist, andrew ross sorkin. so is that the direction we are headed in? >> you know, i don't know if it's the. >> direction we're headed in. oftentimes, we'll see those type of articles and just the sort of bearish sentiment that they call it a wall of worry. but there have been many a time where the

stock market has. quote, quote unquote climbed this sort of. wall of worry. is there a sentiment out there that things are priced to perfection? yes. we've said it over and over and over again. >> joe and i and others. >> at the table. there have had the conversation about what we're seeing in crypto and so many other indications that we are at this sort of euphoric. >> moment in the. >> markets, and that therefore we are at some kind of ceiling. having said. >> that. >> i don't want to tell you that it can't go. >> higher. >> but i do think that there's a lot. >> of. >> warning signs out there that things. are are overheated. >> you look at where prices are on a. >> relative basis. >> just to history. >> and there's no way to look at it any other way. you add in all the issues that you guys were. >> just. >> talking about, in terms of the uncertainty that's being created in washington, the global uncertainty with some of the big geopolitical issues. and almost by default, if one thing goes wrong along the way, it will create a hiccup, if not an earthquake. >> well, that's what we've been

warning about now for the past month and a half. and steph, i'd love for you to get to andrew with a question. but the thing that we've been talking about staff is our concern about three bubbles steph there. can we go to steph. we've been concerned about three bubbles. right now you've got of course we talked about the $36 trillion fiscal bubble. i mean when that explodes we ain't going to fix that in a year or two like inflation. when that debt $36 trillion debt bomb goes off. we're we're all in trouble. the world economy is in trouble. then you have the crypto bubble. it's madness. if you listen to what people are saying about crypto right now, go back and watch the big short and you'll go, oh my god, these are parallel universes that. we're going through. and then finally there's the bubble on wall street. a lot of people are very concerned. and usually when. you have people like warren buffett

go into cash. there's a reason a lot of bubbles there. this is an economy, as we've. >> been. >> saying for some time, you've got to handle with. care or else some very bad things can happen very quickly. and apparently some people. >> on wall. >> street starting to get concerned about that. >> and just remember what happens in a in a deregulatory environment. you're taking the guardrails off. so everyone who's saying, oh, all this regulation is confining me i can't get the good stuff done. you get the you get rid of the regulation. who is protecting the little guy? andrew. my question is to you, though. when donald trump was elected, there was this idea that animal spirits would be released. all of these companies that were frustrated, we didn't see a lot of m&a activity because supposedly the biden administration was anti-business. we're going to see a flurry of mergers and acquisitions in 2025. why do you think we haven't yet? do you think there's lots of corporate leaders out there saying we don't actually know what we're in for in a trump administration? so let's hold back. >> i think. >> it's the.

>> the second part of that question, which is that actually, i would tell you, january, if you just look at the math in terms of mergers and acquisitions, has been one of the lowest in recent years. oddly enough, given the view that there was going to be a lot more activity, i think there ultimately may very well be. i think a lot of it is going to hinge on the tax policy that comes into place this summer, when people start to get a better sense of what what's going on there. and i think that there's a sense of some of these big geopolitical issues in terms of tariffs, which are keeping everybody from doing anything right now. so, yes, the uncertainty piece is the thing that has kept most executives from from putting their foot right on, on the gas. and i think there was a sense that, you know, it was going to be, you know, all things ablaze. and now in total, until there's a better sense. and this could go on for years. i mean, we don't know. i imagine it could go on for years if we don't get an answer on the tariff issue, for example, that you may not see all of that activity that we had talked about.

>> and let me give. >> really, andrew. and you, you know this because you wrote the book on too big to fail. let me give the greatest example. of what steph was just talking about. one of those small government conservatives. i came in, we wanted to balance the budget. we wanted to deregulate, deregulate, deregulate a lot of those. the regulatory reform, it made a lot of sense when you're talking about small businesses and midsize businesses. the one thing i learned, and we all tragically learned, not all deregulation is created equally. so we here deregulate, deregulate animal spirits, and then glass-steagall comes up. in 99. i was very concerned about it. i finally got a call from a small banker, said, come on, you. >> know. >> we're being held back. we should be able to get involved in investing. we should be. >> able to do all. >> of these different things. and, and so i voted for glass-steagall, as. >> did, you. >> know, a lot of people in congress. and your book will

explain how that that urge to deregulate everything, deregulate the banks, deregulate big businesses, deregulate corporations, now, deregulate these it behemoths. what that can lead to. there's a reason for regulation. there's a reason for smart regulation. and this idea that you clear it all out. it leads to things like the great recession of 2008. >> well, look. >> i. >> i worry about that. i worry about the favor trading that's going on with regulation right now. and you're seeing it in terms of some of the lawsuits that are being brought by this administration against companies in exchange for other things. and you talk about deregulation. one of the big issues today, which was not the case in 2008, was artificial intelligence. and what's happening there, this idea that we want to innovate desperately, but you also want to do it with regulations and guardrails around what is being done. you've had some of the leaders of those companies actually call for regulation. at

the same time today, there's a view that there should really be as little regulation as possible. >> well. >> if you believe even even if you believe in elon musk, about the potential of the dangers of ai, which he talks about regularly, it could turn into, you know, we talked about the financial crisis of 2008. ai could be a crisis of an even larger magnitude. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you so much. and nbc news senior business analyst stephanie ruhle, thank you as well. we'll be watching. the 11th hour weeknights at 11 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. and coming up, we'll have the latest on yesterday's plane crash in toronto, where somehow everyone on board survived after the jet flipped over on the runway. that is straight ahead on morning joe. joe. >> around being sent tracey from lillie's of charleston will watch 60 contestants eat 60 hot wings

all covered in lillie's hot sauce oh honey, don't touch your face will be in this ad 60% of the time great job, bob! it all started with a small business idea. it's a pillow with a speaker in it! that's right craig. pulling in the perfect team to get the job done. i'm just here for the internets. at&t, it's super-fast! you locked us out?! and when thrown a curveball... arrggghh! ahhhh! [crashing sounds] we had everything we needed. is the internet out? don't worry, we have at&t internet back-up. the next level network for small business. ♪♪ i sold a pillow!

and sirloin steak. >> yeah. >> that's the reason. >> i don't get it. >> i don't get it. >> do you a sleep number® smart bed is perfect for couples the climate360® smart bed is the only bed that cools and warms on each side and all our smart beds adjust the firmness for each of you. and now, save 50% on the new sleep number® limited edition smart bed. shop a sleep number® store near you. unless we try, right? >> how long have we waited for something. >> like this? we'll have. >> to. >> alert suppliers. >> coordinate shipments. >> already alerted, already coordinated. every supplier sees changes. >> as they happen. >> since when can we just scale up mid-cycle? >> since we brought in. >> since we brought in. >> people who experience advanced technology in the buick envision. (♪♪) equipped with the largest-in-class ultrawide 30-inch diagonal display

and google built-in compatibility, innovation is at your fingertips. buick. exceptional by design. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max!

need now from your structured settlement. >> call now. >> the dentist will be right in. >> hey. >> i heard you're. >> retiring soon. you excited? yeah. >> doc, but i'm about to lose my. dental insurance. >> you can get your own from physicians mutual. >> i think. >> my work here is done. >> wait. what? get the premier dental. >> plan from physicians mutual insurance company. it helps cover everything from cleanings and. >> fillings to. crowns and dentures. >> no deductibles, no annual maximum. for all the details, visit dental now.com. >> physicians mutual. >> physicians mutual. >> welcome back. 939 in the

morning here on the east coast. an investigation is underway this morning after a delta airlines plane crashed at canada's toronto pearson international airport, overturning upon landing and injuring at least 18 people on board. thankfully no fatalities. nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk has the latest. >> an unimaginable. >> scene. at toronto's. pearson international airport. >> oh. oh oh no no no no no. >> we just landed. our plane crashed. >> it's upside down. >> video obtained by tmz shows the moment delta airlines. >> flight 4819 crashed into the runway and overturned. >> the aircraft are. >> upside down and burning. >> video posted. >> on social. media shows passengers. >> evacuating the. >> plane. >> operated by. >> regional. jet company endeavor air. >> drop it! >> come on. >> one passenger filming. >> the moment. >> he jumped out. >> of the emergency.

>> exit onto a tarmac covered in patches of snow. >> yo, i was just on this plane. all 76. >> passengers and four crew. >> members are accounted for. paramedic services saying. >> at least. >> 18 were. >> injured. including a child. two people were airlifted to a nearby trauma center. >> there was no loss of life. and this. is in. >> due part to our heroic and trained professionals. >> bystanders filming. giant clouds. >> of black smoke as first responders. >> quickly covered the plane in. >> foam to prevent flames from spreading. officials say it's. >> too early. >> to speculate. >> about the cause of the crash, but the weather conditions are coming into. sharp focus at around the time the plane landed. wind gusts reached close to 40mph. amid blowing snow and negative 2 degrees wind chill. it comes amid some confusion over the presence of crosswinds, which can impact plane landings. toronto pearson fire chief saying the runway. >> was dry and there were no. >> crosswind conditions at the time. but according to aviation tracking website. >> flightradar24. >> weather advisories.

>> indicated a gusting crosswind. monday's accident involved a crj 900 plane popular. >> for short. >> haul flights. >> the next thing i saw is basically a plane. the plane. basically flipped on the runway. >> the regional jet is a bigger version of the same model involved in the deadly collision in washington, dc, between a military helicopter and an american airlines flight just 20 days ago. that crash the deadliest in nearly 25 years, killed. 67 people. >> that was nbc's stephanie gosk with that report will bring you updates on the investigation as they develop. but now this just in. a federal judge has ordered new york city mayor eric adams to appear in court tomorrow for a hearing to explain the department of justice's controversial request to dismiss the criminal charges against him. today, adams will have until 5 p.m. to provide his written consent filing to dismiss those bribery charges. and we should also note, mara, later today, the governor is

assembling a meeting of civil rights leaders, elected officials, community leaders here in new york as she mulls what to do about mayor adams. there is a mechanism never before used where she could try to oust him, remove him from power. and this comes a day after four of his deputy mayors offered their resignations, their intent to resign because of this deal with department of justice. >> that's right. >> it's very. >> clear that the nation's. largest city right now is leaderless. essentially. you know. >> eric adams really should resign. >> and if he. >> cares about putting new. >> york first, as he. >> says he does. >> the most heroic. >> thing he can. >> do in this. >> moment is step down. >> there is a mechanism, as you said, for the governor of the state. you know, under the city. >> charter. >> actually to. remove the mayor. that's an extreme action. there is a second. >> option as. >> well. >> which is.

>> called an inability committee of city officials. that would there's kind of. >> a higher bar to. >> do that, but that could also remove him. i think. >> that's a little less likely. >> i still think it's unlikely that the governor will remove the mayor, unless. >> she absolutely. >> has to. >> there's a. >> lot of reasons why that may not be, you know, an ideal move, i think, especially at a moment where you have a sitting elected mayor in the drama of the crisis of democracy that's playing out. you know, there's no easy option here because mayor adams is duly elected. he is. >> up for reelection. >> this year. >> there will be. >> an opportunity for new yorkers to replace the mayor first in the june primary and then again in november. so we are just months. away from that, which feels more democratic. at the same time, the reality is that the mayor is deeply. beholden to the president of the united states. and in order to. protect the 8.3 plus million new yorkers and make sure that their

city is being run by someone who is beholden to them, not the president. you know, the governor may not have many options. >> yeah. and john hammond, to tomorrow's point, it is an election year. some of the factors weighing in on governor hochul's thinking might be the impact on andrew cuomo, the former governor who now is considering a mayoral run. hochul and cuomo famously do not get along. but this is a thorny predicament here, because if adams were to resign, what? stopping department of justice to rescind the deal and just say, hey, guess what, we're going to bring this back. you know, so this is this is complicated on a number of levels, but right now is tomorrow's point. it's the biggest city in the nation, really, seemingly without any leadership at the helm. >> yes, jonathan. and an. >> unprecedented situation. i mean, i think, you know, you saw this. >> as the. >> reporting started to make clear. >> last week. >> that the pretext for, for the, for. >> the. >> for giving this, this not a

pardon, but a commutation in a sense of the removal of the, of the indictment with without prejudice that, that the pretext for it was that it would interfere with the governor's ability to do his job, or the mayor's ability to do his job, which, of course, you know, we have a grand tradition of indicted mayors in america. the mayors all over the country have been indicted on corruption charges over. >> the. >> course of the last 250 years. and you could say that in every case in which a public official is ever indicted, that the indictment impedes their ability to do their job because of the political, economic, psychological, mental distraction that it that it puts in place. i think that the politics of this are very complicated, as maura said, because you are in a situation where we do have this election year coming up. you also have the situation where governor hochul, by doing if she were to take this decision, she would also put herself, i think, pretty quickly into a straightforward and pretty dramatic conflict in a way, with

the trump administration. and given the way the trump administration right now has decided to, in a very open way, begin this campaign again, unprecedented of retribution against donald trump's foes. the governor has to consider the not just the welfare of the city, but the welfare of the state. and is she by getting by, by diving into this in an unprecedented way, is she putting at risk a bunch of other new yorkers who rely on being in the good graces of the federal government? she's got to be thinking about all kinds of equities here, in addition to, obviously, the one you mentioned, jonathan, there, the. cuomo equity. but man, that's a complicated, complicated decision for her to make. >> i do. >> not envy her. >> this is just staggering. nbc news national affairs analyst john heilemann and member of the new york times editorial board, mara gay. thank you both very much. and coming up, we're going to update on pope francis following his hospitalization last friday. plus, for many, planned parenthood is synonymous with the fight to preserve life

saving abortion rights. but it is also the health care provider for millions of the poorest americans. and a new york times investigation reports the clinics are experiencing a crisis of care. we'll dig into crisis of care. we'll dig into that. straight a ♪♪ with fastsigns, create factory grade visual solutions to perfect your process. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement™. >> that's what grandpa used to play when our hearing wouldn't allow us to use a regular phone. it made us feel isolated. >> it became difficult to communicate with. our friends and family. >> clear captions was an easy solution for us. >> clear captions provides captions. >> on a phone. >> like captioning on your tv. >> so you can. >> see what the caller is saying

live as they say it. >> making it easy to understand and respond immediately. >> there is no insurance or medicare required. clear caption service is provided at no cost to you through a federally funded program. we deliver, install and train you on how to use your phone, all at no cost to you. >> give your loved ones the independence and connection they deserve. >> call now to see if you qualify to get a clear captions. phone at no cost to you, call phone at no cost to you, call nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. (fisher investments) at fisher investments we may look like other cmoney managers,ention. but we're different. (other money manager) how so? (fisher investments) we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client'' best interest. (fisher investments) so we don't sell any commission-based products. (other money manager) then how do you make money? (fisher investments) we have a simple management fee, structured so we do better when our clients do better.

(other money manager) your clients really come first then, huh? fisher investments: yes. we make them a top priority, by getting to know their finances, family, health, lifestyle and more. (other money manager) wow, maybe we are different. (fisher investments) at fisher investments, we're clearly different. when i started walton goggins goggle glasses, i had no idea what i was doing. but godaddy airo does. using ai to build a logo, website and social content. so i can let the world know, if your goggles ain't goggins, they don't belong on your noggins! (♪♪)

now for something you can both agree on a sleep number® smart bed is perfect for couples the climate360® smart bed is the only bed that cools and warms on each side and all our smart beds adjust the firmness for each of you. let's agree to agree on better sleep. and now, save 50% on the new sleep number® limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 48 months. shop now. to last a lifetime and is the perfect balance of modern style and durability. find yours. president trump's first 100 days watch. >> i'm going to be here five days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up. >> half the. night reading executive orders. >> for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> what was it like when trump got elected? what was the i mean, what was the reaction, do you think about ice coming to knock on your front door? >> t for president trump's first 100 days? alex wagner travels to

the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you there. >> on january? >> i was there on january 6th. >> did it surprise you that you. >> were fired. >> given how resolutely nonpartisan you have been? >> and for more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast trumpland with alex wagner. >> eight minutes before the top of the hour. pope francis has canceled his saturday audience due to his ongoing illness. the 88 year old has been hospitalized since friday with a respiratory infection, and now the vatican says he'll need a longer stay after a series of tests showing a, quote, complex clinical picture. it added the pontiff's condition is stable and he does not have a fever. pope francis had a portion of his lung removed as a young man, and he is prone to bouts of influenza and bronchitis. during colder months. we'll be following that. a new investigation in the new york

times finds planned parenthood clinics around the country are facing complaints of low quality care and poor morale among employees amid financial strain. the paper reviewed clinical documents and legal filings, and also conducted interviews with more than 50 current and former executives and medical staff, and found that clinics suffered as national leaders prioritized the fight for abortion rights over finding ways to provide patients with sustainable health care. joining us now with reaction is the president and ceo of the planned parenthood action fund and planned parenthood federation of america, alexis mcgill johnson. also with us for this conversation is the co-founder and ceo of all in together. lauren, later. good to have you both with us. alexis, first of all, tell us what's going on at these clinics across the country and what can be done given the current environment.

>> well, thank you. >> for having. >> me here and allow me to address this, i. >> think, quite frankly, irresponsible piece of journalism. you know what? i have. such admiration for the. >> workers of planned parenthood. >> at the 600 health. >> centers across this country. >> people who. get up every. >> single day, they walk. through protesters. >> they walk through, you know, potential violence. >> and they see patients who are traveling all across. >> the. >> country. >> quite frankly, to get the care. >> that. >> they need. >> in. >> this moment. >> so they. >> are they are the. >> heroes here. and what we are seeing now is we are living in a public health crisis, right? >> i mean. >> that one that was created by. >> the. >> you know, first trump administration. and we are seeing that these folks are trying to provide care. >> in a system. >> that has very inequitable. reimbursement rates. and so the idea that planned parenthood. >> is in crisis. >> without the proper context, cherry picking five anecdotes.

>> out of the 9. >> million services. >> and patients. >> that they see all of the. time across this country in annual visits, it just really felt, you know, just like a. >> an unwarranted attack. >> well, and then i'd like to take it a step further. your answer here. pushing back a little bit to this article. what is it about the system as it stands right now that is impacting care? what are the challenges that planned parenthood is facing in this political environment? >> well, i think planned parenthood, like all systems, are facing. increasing health care. >> costs, right? >> i mean, i think that's the reality across the country. and we. >> see. >> 50% of our patients are medicaid patients. they're insured by. >> medicaid. >> which means they are coming. and oftentimes getting very crappy. >> reimbursement rates. >> and i would say the problem is really reimbursement equity as it relates to gender. and fundraising alone cannot close the gap that. >> you know. >> that our health centers.

>> are experiencing. >> and so, you know, i think the challenge, right, is to. >> ensure that. medicaid reimbursement. >> gets, gets increased. and the real challenge in this administration, right, is the fact that. >> you know. >> we are potentially under a medicaid defund as forecast by the trump administration. and those who. >> are advising him. >> so we have a lot of. concern around what could happen there. >> so what is your response in light of all that we've just said to those who do say that the organization is sometimes prioritizing politics over patients? >> so our political dollars are raised. >> in. >> the political, you know, in the political entities. right. and we are all fighting to ensure access for abortion rights. and i give you a great example, right. this weekend, right after the voters in missouri voted in november, this weekend, we were able to provide our first abortions. >> in missouri. >> okay. that was a function of our ability to fight politically and ensure that the care is allowed. to be provided. our

health care is politicized. and so without engaging in politics, we aren't. >> able to actually engage. >> so. so alexis one, i think americans don't quite understand the extent to which we have these health care deserts all over the country, and especially in states where abortion has been banned, just a massive erosion, not just obviously, of abortion care, but just basic health care for women in those states. can you talk a little bit about the services that planned parenthood. continues to provide, especially in those states? because i don't think everybody even knows that they're still operating in those places. you know, at great challenge, obviously. >> absolutely. >> i mean, people come to planned parenthood for abortion. >> where. >> they're able to get it or navigation out of state where. they are unable to, but also birth control, family planning. >> you know, sti. >> testing, gender affirming care, which is also under attack. and, you know, for many communities, planned parenthood is the first resort, right? it is the first point of entry into the health care system. and so, you know, look, our all of the work that we do.

>> rests on our. >> ability to provide local health care and to. >> also fight. >> for that. >> care. >> because we know, as i said, it is politicized. so, you know, look, i think the things that people can do are to support their local, you know, planned parenthood affiliates to ensure that they're getting those resources. and, you know, to also be a part of a movement to fight for reimbursement equity, to fight for, you know, reestablishing rights that have been lost and are really tragic for communities. >> president of planned parenthood alexis mcgill johnson and ceo of all in together, lauren leder. thank you both. please come back. it's great to talk to you. and that does it talk to you. and that does it for us this morning. jose ♪ (mellow music playing) ♪ ♪♪ a box that says “you're the one.” ♪♪ ♪ (rock music playing) ♪ - or, a breakup box. either way, one rate fits all. fedex can ship your packages for less than the post office. (luke) so why can't we say we're the best home shopping site? (lawyer) because while true, you just can't say that legally.

(luke) so i can't say... “homes-dot-com is the best!” (lawyer) no. (marci) what if we jumbled up the words? (luke) homes best is com dot the. (lawyer) no. (luke) what if we said it in spanish? (marci) homes-punto-com es el mejor. (lawyer) no. (marci) what if we whispered it? (luke) homes-dot-com is the best. (lawyer) no. (luke) fine! what if he said it? (morgan) homes-dot-com. it's the best. (lawyer) mr. freeman, i'm sorry, but we can't say that. (morgan) say what? (lawyer) homes-dot-com is the best. (morgan) ah-ha! (luke) homes-dot-com. (morgan) it's the best. feel your love. (♪♪) now for something you can both agree on a sleep number® smart bed is perfect for couples the climate360® smart bed is the only bed that cools and warms on each side and all our smart beds adjust the firmness for each of you.

let's agree to agree on better sleep. and now, save 50% on the new sleep number® limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 48 months. shop now. recipes crack the toughest cases. ollie solves picky eating with every healthy, tasty bite and the evidence. wagging tails. i can not believe everything at fabletics is 80% off right. now with fabletics. you know you're getting all the latest styles and colors, so fill your closet today with 80% off your entire first order at fabletics. com as a new vip member. >> right now on msnbc. face to face high-stakes talks this morning between the u.s. and russia on the war in ukraine. not at the table. ukraine itself. what ame