the destination reached after a thousand smaller steps, each one stripping a single minority of its dignity and humanity. turski said the 11th commandment is thou shalt not be indifferent. so as we mourn his death tonight, let's continue to heed that warning. let's never forget and refuse to be indifferent. and on that very important note, i wish you a very good night from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news. thanks for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. >> tonight on all in. >> who resigned? >> the head of social security. >> i don't know. i mean, i resigned or got fired, i think. got fired. >> elon musk's doge team targets social security.

>> i asked elon, who are these doge people? >> and on top, justice department attorney resigns, claiming undue pressure to start a criminal probe. >> it's all. >> of a piece of really lawless action. >> tonight, the latest flashing warning signs in the rule of law in america. and then, as eric adams heads to court, the slippery slope of a quid pro quo with new york's mayor. and as we get incredible new images of that crash landing in toronto. what we now know about what probably caused the horrific accident when all in starts now. good evening from new york. i'm ali velshi in for chris hayes today. a federal judge in washington cleared the way for donald trump and elon musk to continue their assault on the u.s. government. judge tanya chutkan, who previously oversaw trump's january 6th criminal case, declined a request from 14 state attorneys general to

prevent musk's doge from firing employees or accessing agency data. she determined that the mere threat of doge causing widespread harm was not enough to issue a temporary restraining order. this happened just one day after we learned that the acting head of the social security administration, michelle king, resigned after refusing to give musk's doge staffers access to sensitive personal data. she's not the only government official to resign in protest of the trump administration. today, denise chung, the head of the criminal division in the washington, d.c, u.s. attorney's office, abruptly stepped out. as nbc news reports, chung pushed back against donald trump's order to freeze bank assets and open up a criminal investigation into a contract that was awarded by the environmental protection agency. trump's acting deputy attorney general, emil bove, apparently tried to push the whole thing through yesterday, which was a federal holiday when presumably fewer people would have been

paying attention. in a letter to her boss, chung said that there was no legal justification for such dramatic action. she wrote that she was asked on monday to review documentation provided by the office of the deputy attorney general, currently headed by acting deputy attorney general emile beauvais, to open a criminal investigation into whether a contract had been unlawfully awarded by an executive agency during former president joe biden's administration. her letter did not specify the grants at issue, but three sources told nbc news it had to do with environmental grants issued by and during the biden administration. in the letter, chung outlines the pressure campaign from beauvais to get this done as quickly as possible. quote i was told that there was time, sensitivity and action had to be taken that day because there was a concern that contract awardees could continue to draw down on accounts handled by the bank handling the disbursements. i conferred with others in the office, all of

whom have substantial white collar criminal prosecution experience and reviewed documentation provided by beauvais office in determining whether the predicate for opening such a grand jury investigation existed. despite assessing that the existing documents on their face did not seem to meet this threshold, a representative stated that he believed sufficient predication existed, including in the form of a video where statements were made by a former political appointee of the executive agency in question. end quote. okay, that was a lot. but in other words, this sounds like the new administration's position was for the department of justice to freeze funds first and then come up with a legal justification for doing so after the fact, or maybe not at all. chung also detailed how she was getting pressure, not just from the acting deputy attorney general, emile beauvais, whose name you all know now, but from her own boss, the acting u.s. attorney ed martin, a trump appointee who helped lead the

stop the steal movement ahead of january 6th. as chung wrote to him in her resignation letter, quote, you also directed that a second letter be immediately issued to the bank under your and my name, ordering the bank not to release any funds in the subject accounts pursuant to a criminal investigation being run out of the u.s. attorney's office in dc. when i explained that the quantum of evidence did not support that action, you stated that you believe that there was sufficient evidence. you also accused me about wasting five hours of the day doing nothing except trying to get what the fbi and i wanted, but not what you wanted. she went on to say, because i believe that i lack the legal authority to issue such a letter, i told you that i would not do so. you then asked for my resignation. i remain committed to the oath that i took, and it has been an honor of a lifetime to be an assistant u.s. attorney in this office. i know that all of the assistant u.s. attorneys in the office will continue to uphold that pledge they have

taken, following the facts and the law and complying with their moral, ethical, and legal obligations. end quote. so in a statement of its own, trump's doj said, quote, refusing a basic request to pause an investigation so officials can examine the potential waste of government funds is not an act of heroism, just a failure to follow a chain of command. end quote. of course, many would argue that standing up against what one believes to be an illegal order or even an unjust order at great professional cost would indeed be an act of heroism. but perhaps trump's officials are just getting a bit tired of all the resignations. chung's resignation comes after at least seven doj prosecutors quit last week. rather than enable donald trump's deal with new york city mayor eric adams, which we'll talk about later in the show, where in the federal bribery charges against adams, which he denies, would be dropped, apparently in exchange for his cooperation with trump's immigration policies. emile beauvais tried and tried again

to get a doj official to sign on to the order to drop those charges at multiple terms. career prosecutors, in many cases, conservatives who had signed on to work with the trump administration refused to do something that they felt was either illegal or unjustified or immoral or improper. they quit rather than sign on to the order. now, eventually, beauvais found a guy, a lawyer named ed sullivan, in the public integrity unit at the department of justice, to go along with the scheme. he's a trial attorney at doj who was retiring. he possibly agreed to do this under the unspoken threat that if he didn't, his colleagues would lose their jobs. so there are two schools of thought here. one, as outlined by the legal scholar laurence tribe on my program this past saturday, is that there is nothing principled about remaining at trump's weaponized justice department. >> there were. 22 career.

>> members of the. >> justice department. they were threatened by emile beauvais. >> one of you had. >> better sign this corrupt motion to dismiss or you're all fired. and at first, they stood together, and that's what they should have done. until finally, a guy named ed sullivan, edward sullivan, who was about to retire anyway, said, oh, i'll volunteer. i'll take the hit. he's. no. he's no profile in courage. they should all have insisted on being fired. make emile beauvais sign the damn thing himself. >> now, that's one perspective. another perspective is that, well, if all the principled people quit, who'd be left to push back? after all, don't you think donald trump wants all the career prosecutors who won't obey a potentially illegal order to leave, clearing the way for his people to do his bidding, especially considering his new edict today that only he and his hand-picked attorney general get to say what is and is not legal.

>> this executive order would. establish important oversight functions in the office. >> of management and budget. >> and its subsidiary office, oira, supervising independent agencies and many of their actions, and also reestablishes the long standing norm that. >> only the. president or. >> the attorney general can speak for the united states. when stating an opinion as to what. >> the law is. >> so this time around, things are different. trump and his co-president, elon musk, are systematically dismantling guardrails against their lawless power grabs, which means the strategies for resisting the power grabs need to be different to. joining me now is someone on the front lines of the effort to push back against donald trump and elon musk? congresswoman jasmine crockett is a democrat of texas. she's a member of the house oversight committee on doge. congresswoman, welcome. thank you for being with us. >> yeah. >> it's a this is a tricky one. you have the benefit of you were not a member of congress in the first trump administration. you were you were in government. but this is. what's your take on

what resistance looks like for you, for me, for society, for those lawyers at the doj, what are you supposed to do? >> yeah. so first of all, hats off to each and every person who literally said that i have some ethics about myself and therefore i'm just going to resign. that's as it relates to the doj as well as every other agency. the scary part about this, though, is that only his lackeys will be left running our governmental agencies. whatever is left of those governmental agencies. when i think about resistance, though, i've had a lot of conversations, and one of the things that keeps coming up is how the former governor of this state was consistently doing daily briefings in the midst of covid, because we couldn't trust anything that donald trump was saying about the pandemic. so everyone tuned in to really what almost was like the shadow president, the guy that was going to give us facts and not tell us to inject ourselves with bleach. right. i think that we need to do

something similar to that, because all they're going to do, him and his new press secretary is spew lies upon lies upon lies. we need to daily brief the american people. that's number one. number two, a lot of people are talking about, you know what? we just are looking forward to the midterms. we only need three more seats. i'm sure everybody's tired of getting emails, text messages, phone calls, trying to raise money. but the reality is that we have an opportunity right now. i know that a lot of people look at these seats that are available, which there's going to be a total of three, and they say these are deep red seats. but here's the thing. we saw that in the state of iowa, they swung a seat 27 points so that a democrat could win. i say we have nothing to lose. we need to go out. we need to talk to those people that finally understand that the only mission that donald trump has is making sure that he can line his pockets, line elon's pockets and any other billionaire all at our expense. it's not just going to be the people you dislike that are going to miss out on their

medicare, medicaid, or their social security or down in the state of florida where two of these seats are, they are talking about getting rid of fema. it is time to wake up, and it doesn't mean that you're a democrat if you vote democratic. >> so this is where i want to get to. who's the audience to swing some of these states. is it progressives who understand that their priorities are being crushed, or is it is it people who voted republican to whom you say you didn't vote for this, did you? you didn't vote for elon musk and a guy named big balls to have your your documentation? yeah. who how does that message get out there in a way that that entire audience hears it? >> i think that that i think that you're right. definitely the entire audience. i just don't know how many progressives exist in matt gaetz former district. right. but i do think that there are farmers in that district, farmers that are concerned because they rely upon monies as it relates to usaid and other monies that are now being dismantled. and it means

that you may lose your family farm, it may be bought up by a corporate organization. and so i think just having very real conversations, we've seen people who have talked about, well, we don't want you firing the people at the va, or maybe it's somebody that has to fly all the time. and they're concerned because we have a record number of planes literally falling out of the sky, because he decided he was going to appoint some guy from fox to be over transportation. but at the end of the day, there were those that never believed that we could end up with two senators in the state of georgia, and we did. there were those that never believed we could have a democrat representing alabama. and in that special election, we did. so i think if there's any point in time that the people should rise up and figure out, where should i focus, my attention is on these special elections. and it's having real conversations on the doors with real people talking about what's really happening and not the lies that they're putting out

there. >> i want to go back to this idea that a lot of people are frustrated about, where a lot of democrats are in this mix. you're out there a lot. we've talked several times. you've got to take on everything that happens. this concept about a daily briefing, it's you know, we've talked about whether we should act more like a parliamentary system here where the opposition has got a job, a job to do every day. and you see them as often as you see a prime minister. what does that look like? have you had that? have you had this conversation with your colleagues about how this looks? >> i've been trying to work through it because i think when we compare it to what was happening in covid, it was just one subject. and for us as democrats, we like to have experts. we don't just want to talk and mouth. right. and so it's a matter of how do we know what's coming to make sure that we've got the right expert on hand. but i think that it would be great if at least maybe every friday we have a different attorney general or the same one that talks about the status of the cases. right. i think that there's things that we can do. we can just maybe decide on what

days we're going to have transportation and maybe we can pull on secretary buttigieg to come through and say, this is the day that i will pick up, and i will talk about what's happening at faa. i think we also have to start having some field hearings. we've got to go into their territory. we've got to explain to people in rural america, the reason that you don't have hospitals is because of their policies. the reasons you're not going to have schools is because of their policies. the reason that you had access to more jobs, more health care, as well as the next level of farming, was because democrats were the ones that wanted to make sure that you could have broadband access. we've got to start having the conversations instead of just ceding the territory, because the reality is that right now they're trying to cut snap benefits. you know, who uses more snap benefits than anybody else? it's rural america. it's not urban america. we have a story for every single person who's not a billionaire in this country, and it's time for us to tell it. >> so you had an interesting

story, which i wasn't going to bring up because my parents watched this show. but you were involved in a hearing with elon musk about condoms, right? do you remember this whole this whole. >> it wasn't with ellen. ellen, if you're watching, come through, boo, because you haven't shown up to the doge right yet. >> right. and you called him out at that subcommittee. but this became weird because buddy carter, your colleague from georgia, started talking about how we were giving condoms to the taliban and then donald trump himself. then it became about gaza. but that would have to have been about 7000 condoms per person. and then he said it was just hamas, which, like none of it made sense, but it caused a lot of people to have to run around and follow the story and find out that we give condoms as part of usaid to prevent the spread of hiv. yeah. to a place in mozambique called gaza province. correct. this is the nonsense we have to deal with. >> it's not even just nonsense. it's just that they're idiots. i mean, these are the same guys, remember, as it relates to our nuclear stockpile, right? they're like, oh, wait a minute. we needed those guys. oh, can we get them back? oh, we don't know

how to like. i don't know how anyone in this country can look at this administration and feel some semblance of any type of confidence, right. and this is all at the same time, like, elon doesn't want us talking about the fact that he has received almost $1 billion worth of new contract money from the us government in just two weeks. yeah, 400 million for tesla and over 300 million for spacex. this is nothing more than a money grab. he's not out there trying to save money for the american people. that's not what he's doing. he's lining his pockets. and at the same time, he's outraging people who don't know exactly how we spend our money and how it benefits us to make sure that things like hiv and aids doesn't become the worldwide pandemic that it used to be. exactly. same thing with everything else that we're dealing with, because now we know ebola was found. where? here in new york. i mean, we need people that are experts,

not idiots, that play on fox news or play on the internet. >> jasmine crocker, great to see you as always. thank you for being with us. representative jasmine crockett of texas. all right. coming up, the terrifying moment that that plane carrying 80 people. look at this. watch this crashed and then flipped over on a runway in toronto and everyone survived. we now know everyone survived. we now know wh most people call leaffilter when their gutters are clogged and they notice one of the many issues that can bring. sometimes it's the smell of mildew when water has seeped into the interior walls. or maybe they've spotted mold in the attic. but most often it's the more obvious signs of damage like rotten soffit, fascia, or water pooling near their foundation. you can get ahead of costly damage by protecting your home's gutters today. we're in your neighborhood and ready to help. schedule your free gutter inspection today, call 833 leaffilter, or visit leaffilter.com

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>> a brand new video shows the moment that a delta plane carrying 80 people crashed in toronto on monday. this footage captured from the cockpit of another plane. watch this as the plane lands, shows the flight from minneapolis landing at toronto's pearson international airport yesterday. it appears to land hard. flames start shooting out and then the right wing hits the ground. the plane flips over onto its top and keeps skidding down the runway. billowing smoke and fire. but as you see in this footage shot by passengers, everybody survived as flight attendants jumped into action to evacuate the upside down plane. >> drop it. come on. >> don't take over. >> get thrown away. don't go. holy. >> holy. holy. >> oh my god!

>> oh! >> yo! i was just on this plane. oh my god! yo. >> i. >> was just on this plane. holy. >> ironically, this is the second major incident in about 20 years in toronto. and last time, flight attendants were also credited with getting everybody off the plane safely. so just be extra nice to the next flight attendant you come across. there were 76 passengers, two pilots and two flight attendants on board delta 48. 148. 19. 21 passengers sustained injuries of some sort and were transported to hospitals. 19 of them have been released as of noon today. investigators are starting the process of figuring out exactly what happened, whether this was a landing gear issue, a tire blowout, wind shear, a gust of some wind or some combination or something else entirely that

caused the plane to crash and flip over on the runway. the good news is that the crew is alive to tell their story. and we've got strong. as you can see, strong, detailed video shot in daylight by a pilot who knows how to capture an image of a plane. this is how we're going to get answers, and this is how you can be assured that this type of accident will likely not repeat itself. jeff guzzetti worked as a safety investigator for the federal aviation administration, as well as the ntsb, spent a lot of time with us on tv in the last few weeks. jeff, thanks for being with us. you're a commercial pilot. you're trained as a commercial pilot. does anything about that video give you a better understanding than you had yesterday? about what? what we may be looking for. does it allow you to rule certain things out and keep certain things in? >> good evening. yeah. so it does look like it's a hard landing as opposed to a wing being dragged hitting a snow bank or something. it doesn't appear to be a hard landing. i would expect airplanes to float.

and i know you're a pilot. typically you want to come over the threshold and float a bit and then flare and touch down. this was a very firm landing. now it was crosswind conditions. perhaps that's why it was a firm landing. but the investigation is going to have to determine whether or not that right. main landing gear, which collapsed and went up through the wing and caused the wing to come off, was experienced forces that exceeded its design. i think that's where this investigation is going to go. i think the flight recorders are going to tell the tale to determine. yeah, it was a hard landing, but airplanes experienced hard landings from time to time. did it exceed the limits of the landing gear? and if it did, well, why did the crew make a hard landing that hard? so these are some of the questions that are going to need to be answered. >> and again there are always questions always about are the training or the condition of the plane and whether things need to be fixed on on planes. there's an element here that and some have speculated that in windy conditions, sometimes a pilot has to crab in. you've got to

kind of go in at an angle, but you can't land at an angle. so you then straighten your plane out very quickly after you land. there's a lot of stuff, a lot of workload at the moment of landing. we don't know because we haven't got recordings. we don't know what they were saying in, in the, in the cockpit as they were landing that plane. but some have speculated about about a crab and then straightening out. does that mean anything to you? >> yes it does. you would if you have a stiff crosswind, which apparently they existed, you would tend to crab into the wind even though you're tracking straight. and then just before you touch down, you kick out the crab, you flare and you touch down. we're not really seeing that in this video, but it is a video. i think we need to rely on the data coming off of the flight data recorder to really determine if it wasn't a crab, and if so, how much, and whether or not pilot. reasonable pilot technique could have avoided this crash. >> one just remains incredible because i remember when i before you were on tv yesterday, before i was on tv, i saw the video for

i saw the photo of the imagery of the airplane upside down. and i saw a report that said eight people were injured. and those two things couldn't go together in my mind to see that kind of a situation. and at the moment everybody is alive. two people remain hospitalized. i do want to remind people, as i said yesterday when we were on tv together, keep your seat belts on till the plane stops and be real nice to your flight attendants. >> i would completely agree flight attendants are not there to serve you drinks and peanuts. even though they might do that, they're there to save. they're trained to save human lives. and these are heroes in this, in this airplane. >> jeff, thanks as always. we appreciate this. we hope to not see you as frequently as we do these days, but we appreciate that when we need you. you're here, jeff guzzetti. all right. coming up next, the latest update on the apparent quid pro quo between mayor adams and the trump administration and why this is so much bigger than new york. that's ahead. >> land. oh, are you hiding. >> from used car shopping? >> what if i overpaid?

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trial set for just $7 at harry's dot com. >> smooth. >> a showdown is set for tomorrow between two branches of the federal government over whether to prosecute the mayor of new york city for corruption. for months now, mayor eric adams has been facing a trial for five federal charges, including bribery and wire fraud. now, those charges could have meant an end to his political career, in addition to serious jail time. but then donald trump became president. last week, adams met with the trump border czar, tom homan. that's a guy on the right. and at that meeting, adams pledged to give ice full access to new york city's rikers

island jail, which is a city run facility to which federal agents would not have access without a warrant or a court order. the following day, trump's justice department moved to dismiss the federal corruption charges against adams. adams and homan both say there was no quid pro quo, just friendly conversation. although homan and adams both went on fox the next morning, as you saw, and homan referred to an agreement between them. adams isn't in the clear yet. today, a federal judge ordered federal prosecutors to come to court on wednesday to give his give him their rationale for dropping the case against adams. at issue is whether that decision was made in the public interest, or whether it was done as a personal favor to adams to get him to cooperate with the trump administration's anti-immigration crusade. in the meantime, new york city's governance is being thrown into a bit of chaos. four top deputy mayors resigned yesterday in protest of the department of justice's decision. as many top democrats in the city and the state call on adams to resign, saying he has lost the

confidence of new yorkers. there have also been calls for new york governor kathy hochul to remove adams from office, a power she has under the state's constitution. hochul addressed that power in a statement yesterday, saying, quote, overturning the will of the voter is a serious step that should not be taken lightly. that said, the alleged conduct at city hall that has been reported over the past two weeks is troubling and cannot be ignored. end quote. hochul also met today with state and attorney, state and city leaders to discuss a path forward, including with msnbc host the reverend al sharpton, who suggested that path may be coming shortly. >> the governor. >> said to me that she's going to see what the judge decides tomorrow and keep deliberating with other leaders. my feeling is that the fate of the city people have been shaken, and there needs to be a resolve. but at the same time, we must protect the law and not establish a precedent that could come back to haunt us.

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and why does it matter to me that right after adams signaled that he would cooperate with donald trump's immigration crackdowns, donald trump's acting deputy attorney general, who was a former trump defense attorney, demanded his prosecutors drop the criminal charges against adam firing or accepting the resignations of several federal prosecutors along the way when they refused to do their bidding. this story is much bigger than the big apple. the bigger issue here is the trump run federal government used what could turn out to be, if not unlawful, a legally dubious approach to get an elected official at a different level of government to do them a favor, and in doing so, broke some of the most basic norms of the federal system. you vote for local officials to carry out local policies. you vote for your state officials to carry out state policies, and the federal government, as good or bad as you think it is, does not have absolute power. in fact, the constitution limits its power. but this trump government is signaling its willingness to use federal charges or to remove

lawfully applied federal charges to pressure a local official into doing trump's bidding. in a matter entirely unrelated to what that local official, eric adams, was charged with after the feds dropped the charges against adams, talking points memo declared that donald trump was now the mayor of new york. the federal government's interference into local politics and policy is the beginning of a very slippery slope. this is executive expansion at a whole new level. and the question is, how far could that go and why should you care? trump's department of justice made a deal with a guy who desperately needed a deal to avoid a criminal trial, and now he's helping their immigration crackdown, even though it may run afoul of local laws and constitutional constraints, what else could that lead to? jason stanley thinks a whole lot about these things. he's a professor at yale university. he's the author of erasing history how the fascists rewrite the past to control the future. jason, great to see you. talk to me about all the stuff that isn't about eric adams and his stuff. in other

words, people could look at this and say, this is weird, but it's a little deal. it's there's too many more things going on here. >> there's so much going on. first and foremost, it's an authoritarian power grab. so what? it's obvious this is mafia like. it's obvious this is what a mob boss does. you know he's making a deal. you. i now own you. so now what people might not realize is the literature on fascism and authoritarianism often makes a strong analogy between the dictator, the fascist leader, and a mob boss. it's all about this kind of loyalty that, that, that undergirds the, the mob boss and the mafioso family. so we're seeing history play out in front of us, right? we're seeing the theory of fascism play out in front of us. and we know that we see it in other countries. for instance, trump's now ally friend mentor vladimir putin has

constructed a personalist rule in russia. and so there's this facade of mayors and politicians, but they're all just beholden to putin. the whole regime is structured around vladimir putin. >> we don't think about this because we have generally lived in a democracy where we think things work well. we don't think about the things that we have to protect as, as our as we live in cities across the country, there is a danger we as citizens of this city lose something because eric adams made a deal with the federal government to give them authority that they don't legally have. it might be simple matters for people watching this might say, why do i care if the feds get into rikers island? but the point is, he gave away some of the power he had to do to trade off his his criminal trial. >> well, trump is taking the mayor of the largest city in the united states, and he's saying, i own you now. i'm your i'm your i'm your boss. and this is how it's this is representative of

what he can do across the country. he did this in one way here. he's going to try to do it in some way to every mayor, to every local official. i mean, i'm i don't think we can talk about the united states as a democracy anymore. i mean, trump declared today that he sets the laws. it's looking more and more like an an authoritarian country. and our allies are. >> like. >> let's just stop on that for a second. he said he and the attorney general are the people who determine whether something is legal or illegal. that just flies in the face of everybody who learned anything about history in this country and how this country was formed. in fact, there was a king who was able to determine what was and was not legal in america, and we fought against that. we said, that's not how we want to run things. we and the representatives we elect en masse will make those decisions. >> so he's channeling the political theory of carl schmitt, the nazi political theorist who says the sovereign is he who determines the law. so he who decides the exception

determines the law. so what we have is we have a straightforwardly authoritarian, far right fascist political theory. we can argue about what kind of authoritarianism is. is it caesar ism? is it fascism? is it a monarchy? but if donald trump dictates the law, it's no longer a democracy. >> so what were you thinking when he posted to truth social? because he just randomly posts these things. you don't know what they mean. but he says he who saves his country cannot break the law. >> he's saying that he is the law, that that he determines the law. this is straightforward. schmidt, the nazi political theorist that he he is. there is no rule of law anymore. there is just donald trump, his friends, his loyalists. and what you have to do is you have to be loyal to donald trump. that's so that means we are no longer living in a democracy. this is exactly the political theory that that undergirds fascism. >> is it your sense that there's

a way out of this or at this point? >> well, you just had a heroic politician on your on your show earlier today who gave us strategies. we're not yet at the point where they're arresting opposition politicians. we're not yet at the point where your life is in danger. we're not at that point. this is the time where everyone needs to say the rule of law is vital, because we're not yet at the complete tipping point where it's just like russia. >> jason. thank you. we'll continue to have these important discussions. jason stanley is a professor of philosophy at yale university. all right. still ahead, trump's latest attack on the free press and on american democracy. we'll discuss that after the break. >> consumer cellular ranked number one in network coverage and. >> customer satisfaction. >> hi. >> my friend linda. has you guys. it gets. >> way better coverage than i

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the night reading executive orders. >> for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. msnbc presents a new podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> this show began and. >> continues being. >> the place. >> where you can go to have the hard conversations. >> morning joe, weekdays 6 to 10 on msnbc. >> for over 175 years, the associated press has been one of the single most vital organizations for informing americans about their world, their country and their government. and donald trump and his white house have banned them from the oval office and now also from air force one, all because the ap has not followed

trump's orders in referring to the gulf of mexico solely as the gulf of america. according to the widely used ap stylebook, which is an arbiter of language and usage around the world and often used by journalists, the body of water remains the gulf of mexico, with a reference to trump's order to call it the gulf of america. today, trump was finally asked to defend the ap's white house ban. >> the associated press just refuses to go with what the law is and what is taking place. it's called the gulf of america. now, it's not called the gulf of mexico any longer. i just say that we're going to keep them out until such time as they agree that it's the gulf of america. we're very proud of this country, and we want it to be the gulf of america. now, the associated press, as you know, has been very, very wrong on the election on trump and the treatment of trump and other things having to do with trump and republicans and conservatives. and they're doing us no favors. and i guess i'm

not doing them any favors. that's the way life works. >> no, that's not the way life works in a democracy. the press does not exist to do the government or the president favors. the press exists to hold the government and the president to account. press freedoms in the united states are at risk. just one of the many threats that donald trump poses to american democracy. claire mccaskill is a former democratic senator of missouri. tim miller is the former spokesperson for the rnc. he's now a writer at large for the bulwark. they both join me now. great to see you both. claire mccaskill, that is deeply, deeply offensive. and that's something for donald trump. the concept that that's the way it works, that the associated press or any of us should be under any rules dictated by the president of the united states. >> yeah. >> i mean, we're seeing some scary stuff, especially around the first. >> amendment and the. >> rule. >> of law. >> we're seeing a few people stand up. we're seeing a few people do the. >> right thing. >> but many of them are lawyers who have an ethical requirement

to behave a certain way, or. they lose their license to practice law. like rudy giuliani has lost his. so i would like to see some of the people that are elected to office that have an r behind. >> their name. >> show the same courage that some of these. line prosecutors have shown in the department of justice. and frankly, i'd like to see other news outlets stand up and unity against what donald trump is doing to the ap. >> tim, what's your take on, on, on this part of this nonsense that we're seeing? it is it's donald trump's kind of just making up rules. but but it was very chilling that he, he makes up rules about what the press must do. that's the way it works. rules that are not true. >> yeah. two thoughts on this one. and it's pretty ominous, you have to say. and some of this is just ridiculous and silly, right. like the press secretary, you know, saying that this is the gulf of america. that is a fact. i like some of this like could be out of a farcical movie, but it's really ominous when the president of the united states is saying that the ap isn't following the law,

like that's what he the word that he used in that clip, the law, as if he can mandate what people call bodies of water and declare that to be a legally binding, you know, rule put in place by the president. that's just that's not how things work. obviously, everybody watching this knows that, but it is pretty chilling to think that that is how the sitting president wants things to work and is trying to make things work. so and that's the first element that's chilling to me. the other thing to claire's point about the other media outlets standing together, this is a tricky situation, and i think it's pretty clarifying about the right wing media and the maga media, because when fox was kicked out of the pool during the obama era, the mainstream nbc, this network, cbs, abc stood in solidarity with fox. you're not seeing any of that from the maga media now standing in solidarity with the ap. and, you know, unfortunately for the other mainstream outlets, like you can stand with ap, but like, boycotting

probably doesn't do you any good because the trump might just kick you out of the pool altogether. so i think it's a it's a tricky situation for the other mainstream media outlets. >> yeah. tim made a, an allusion to something that that donald trump again said today, an implication that donald trump and the attorney general determine what the law is or determine what's legal and what's not legal, might sound interesting to people. again, claire, it's i mean, you're a you're a united states senator. that's just not actually true. >> it's just not actually true. and i'll tell you who. >> gets to. >> decide what the law is. the courts get to decide that. and this is going to be a presidency that is written about in terms of court cases. there are going to be so many court cases that it's going to be as difficult to keep track of them as the nonsensical bs that comes out of the oval office, and you're going to see a bunch of them. and these lawyers that have resigned know that judges are going to be looking over the shoulder of the decisions of

some of these folks that are doing trump's bidding, and the courts are going to determine what the law is, whether donald trump likes it or not. >> tim, one of the i guess these are abstractions to some people, right? whether it's called the gulf of america or the gulf of mexico. but some of the things that are going on in the government are not abstractions. there's been a us judge has temporarily halted the firing of seven of 11 cia officials. the us department of agriculture has said that they accidentally fired officials working on bird flu, and they're trying to get them back. same thing with a nuclear protection site. they've apparently over fired people, and they're, you know, they're worried about safety issues. at some point. this is going to, for some americans, not be an abstraction. >> yeah. well, it already is not an abstraction for certainly for all the federal employees who have lost jobs, who did not get fired, you know, and that includes people in the veterans administration. i mean, you know, it's not just nothing against random bureaucrats sitting in offices in washington, dc, but it's not

just random bureaucrats in offices in dc. you know, we've seen at the va and usda, people have jobs out across the country, people that were, you know, serving abroad at usaid, including christians, evangelical christians who think that is part was part of their commitment to serve the least fortunate throughout the world. so there are a lot of people who have already lost jobs. i do also think that there will be medium to long term ramifications, you know, whether that be in the food safety or the infectious disease or the aa, the faa firings, like who can predict but but certainly it's going to get real for people quite soon. >> yeah. and claire, it is one of those issues where we are going to need to convince americans about the value of these civil servants. the system has worked so well that people it's a background app, right? you just don't know that they're doing their jobs. but when your planes don't crash into each other or your checks arrive on time, it's because the government is doing its work. thanks to both of you, i

appreciate your time and that is all in for this tuesday night. i will be in for chris again tomorrow night. we're going to have a very interesting conversation with lina khan, who is the head of the federal communications commission. she a federal trade commission. she has been one of the few government officials over the last few years to enforce some of the laws we've got in this country about antitrust and about companies gaining too much power. obviously, her philosophy is not one being carried out by the current administration. that's it for me. thank you for joining us tonight. the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening rachel. >> good evening. thanks my friend. much appreciated. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. really happy to have you here. it has been another one of those days. nbc news reporting tonight that the trump administration accidentally oops, i totally didn't mean to fire the people working on bird flu. no idea how that happened. now, the bird flu experts at usda, they are trying to hire them back. they