olds that don't understand the program or its database or its. cobol technology. and they just spew this stuff. so i say put up or shut up. you know, if you actually have the names of the 1250 year old people who are. receiving benefits, put them up, they don't have any privacy rights. and so come on, it's total. >> martin o'malley, who was social security administrator under the biden administration. sir, thank you very, very much. that's going to do it for me tonight. i will see you all again tomorrow night and every night this week at 9 p.m. eastern. in the meantime, you can find me at blue sky at msnbc.com. way too early with ali vitale is next. >> for three and. >> a half years, while this conflict has raged, or three years while it's. >> raged. >> no one else has been able to bring something together like what. >> we. >> saw today. >> because donald trump is the

only leader in the world that can. so no one is being. >> sidelined here. but president. >> trump is in a position that he. >> campaigned on. >> to initiate a process that could bring about. >> an end to. >> this conflict, and from that could emerge some very positive. things for the united. >> states. >> for europe, for ukraine, for the world. >> secretary of state marco rubio there claiming ukraine is not being sidelined in a possible peace talk with russia, despite ukraine not getting a seat at the table yesterday with u.s. and russian officials in saudi arabia. the question is, what else came out of those diplomatic talks? it comes as president trump is now blaming creighton for russia's invasion. the question is how will ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy respond to that? plus, new york city mayor eric adams is headed to court today for a hearing on the justice department's request to drop the charges against him. the question is, will the judge allow that case to go away as the department of justice wants it to? it's way too early for this. good morning and welcome

to way too early, the. >> show that's. >> forced to wonder who will be the mayor of new york this time next week. i'm ali vitali on this wednesday, february 19th. and we'll start with the news. president trump is blaming ukraine for russia's invasion nearly three years ago. he made those comments yesterday after reporters pressed him on ukrainian officials not being involved in the diplomatic talks between the u.s. and russia in saudi arabia. >> i hear that, you know, they're upset about not having a seat. well, they've had a seat for three years and a long time before that. this could have been settled very easily. just a half a half baked negotiator could have settled this years ago without, i think, without the loss of much land, very little land without the loss of any lives and without the loss of cities that are just laying on their side. you have those magnificent golden domes that are shattered will never be replaced. you can't replace

them. thousand year old domes that are so beautiful, you can't replace that. a whole civilization has changed because of what's. so when they're worried about not being seated? you mean somebody that should have gone in and made a deal a long time ago? and i think i have the power to end this war, and i think it's going very well. but today i heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. well, you've been there for three years. you should have ended it three years. you should have never started it. you could have made a deal. i could have made a deal for ukraine that would have given them almost all of the land, everything, almost all of the land. and no people would have been killed and no city would have been demolished, and not one dome would have been knocked down. but they chose not to do it that way. >> absolutely stunning way to talk about an ally of the us. trump also suggested that forcing ukraine to hold elections could be a part of peace negotiations. ukrainian president zelensky has not yet responded to any of those comments from the president, but those remarks came after the

u.s. and russia agreed to work together to end the war in ukraine and reestablish a more normal relationship. secretary of state rubio says the two sides agreed to pursue three goals, the first of which was restoring staffing at the embassies in washington and moscow, the second creating a team to support ukrainian peace talks, and third, improving diplomatic and economic ties. ukraine, however, was notably absent from yesterday's talks. president zelenskyy criticized the meeting, saying negotiations shouldn't happen behind kiev's back. he's also now postponing his trip to saudi arabia. still, yesterday's meeting was the most extensive negotiation to take place between the u.s. and russia in more than three years. it signaled the trump administration's willingness to work with russia and putin, rather than pressure moscow through sanctions and isolate them as the biden administration had. >> i came. >> away today. >> convinced that they are willing to begin to engage in a serious process to determine how and how quickly and. through what mechanism can an end be

brought to this war, whether we can ultimately reach that. outcome will obviously. depend on every side in this conflict. willingness to agree to certain things. >> i think the. >> key really, in all of this is ultimately going. >> to be whether. >> an agreement can be reached. >> with all parties involved. >> on an. acceptable resolution. >> to. >> the conflict in ukraine. because if that. >> happens, not only. >> will the world. >> be a better place. >> but. >> i think. >> there. >> will be some pretty. >> unique opportunities. >> to. >> work with them on areas of. >> bilateral geopolitical. >> interests and. >> some. >> very unique economic opportunities. but we have to get the ukraine situation resolved first in a way. that's acceptable to everyone. >> now, despite secretary rubio saying he's convinced of russia's commitment to hold serious negotiations to end the war, multiple sources tell nbc news that intelligence suggests putin still wants to control all of ukraine. four western intelligence officials and two u.s. congressional officials spoke on condition of anonymity, citing intel from the united

states and its close allies. all believe putin may agree to a ceasefire to allow his military more time to reset and rebuild, but intelligence reports indicate he has no plans to withdraw russian troops or equipment from ukraine. officials also say putin feels emboldened by trump era statements downplaying ukraine's nato prospects. joining us now, former spokesperson for the u.s. mission to the united nations, hagar chemali. she also worked at the national security council and the treasury department. so first, let's just get back to what we mentioned right there, president trump's comments blaming ukraine for the years long war russia invaded. but what's your reaction when you hear the president say that. >> it's not exactly the way to. treat somebody or treat a country, that. that is really fighting for democracy. >> on our behalf? >> i mean, one. of the. >> things i've been saying for the last couple of years is that the investment in ukraine. >> is the greatest deal in the century because because. >> we're we're. >> helping them fight democracy. >> without actually expanding our troops there. so it

certainly. >> not the way, to. be honest with you, the. whole way this. >> unfolded makes no sense. because what. >> i saw. >> was not. >> ukraine negotiations to. >> be, to be honest. >> with you, those haven't started yet. >> this was a bilateral. meeting between. >> the. united states and russia that was hosted by. >> saudi arabia. and that is not. >> uncommon to pursue. if your goal is to negotiate some kind of. >> peace deal. >> or mediate some. >> kind of peace deal, it's. >> just that usually it's not done. >> with as much publicity. it's done more behind the scenes. and by doing it that publicly, you're emboldening putin without him giving anything. >> and so. >> that's that's really what i see as the problem here. that's what caused zelenskyy to react publicly. and then that's what caused trump to react the way he did. >> yeah. and of course, the publicity is always a huge part of the point when it comes to trump. and so given that backdrop that you lay out, let's turn to the nbc news reporting that shows putin still very much aspires to take all of ukraine. this is truly the real fear in europe, in ukraine and elsewhere. so what can be done

to ensure that any potential ceasefire deal prevents that from happening and that, frankly, trump is on board with not having that happen? >> sure. >> that doesn't surprise. >> me at all, by the way, that that intelligence assessment that putin is not interested in a peace deal, that's usually, by the way, most of my work in the u.s. government was dealing with nefarious thugs all over the world, and it is very rare that they they they willingly change their behavior or their foreign policies overnight. usually what happens is that you coerce them into it, or you deter them from pursuing bad behavior. and so i would agree that that any kind of negotiation at this point is only going to leave putin the time and the space to rebuild his very battered army and to give himself time to pursue other offenses and invasions, whether it's ukraine again or georgia, moldova and so on. so that that said, that's not to argue against a negotiation altogether. right. if there's a settlement that both sides are happy with or that ukraine is most importantly ukraine and

europe are happy with, then that's great news. the way to prevent that from happening again is that you have to say that if russia were to ever invade ukraine or any other country, that ukraine, and that if it's an eastern european country, triggers automatic membership into nato, because the fact is that it's not about not provoking putin anymore, you have to stop him and make sure he doesn't do it again. >> so then where. >> are. >> you looking for these talks about potentially talking more? where are you looking for them to go? >> well, at this point, if now the u.s. has met with russia and technically if the u.s. is really if the administration is really serious about pursuing this negotiation deal, and i assume that they are they've lived up to their what they've been promising throughout the campaign, then the next step would be to meet privately or publicly, but bilaterally, at least with ukraine. and then from there they'll they'll fashion an initiative to pursue negotiations. i don't expect, unfortunately, europe, even though europe plays such an important role, i'm not trying to diminish their role at all,

on the contrary, but i don't expect the trump administration to really include them that much. i was just at the munich security conference, and the theme the whole time was that europe just feels that trump is saying to them that he doesn't view them as that important in the in the, in the game of global power, if you will. and he does make that very obvious with his moves. >> yeah. >> you're not trying to diminish europe's role, but at the same time they're worried that trump is doing just that. thank you for joining us this morning. and still ahead, what investigators are now saying about the airplane crash in toronto that had passengers suspended upside down after the jet overturned on the runway. crazy. plus, president trump calls on the justice department to fire all u.s. attorneys left over from the biden administration. we've got those stories and a check on sports and weather when we come right back. >> donald trump is defending the mass. >> firings of federal watchdogs.

>> our federal. >> government now can. >> discriminate against the citizens of the country. >> we are. >> all. >> watching and waiting to see who is going to. >> hold the line. >> don't miss. >> the weekends, saturday and sunday. >> mornings at. >> 8:00 on. msnbc the first 100 days. it's a critical time for our country, and rachel maddow is on five nights a week. >> now is the time. so we're going to do it. settle in. >> the rachel maddow show weeknights at nine on msnbc. >> some things are just better at home, like picking out. >> new floors. >> for a limited time. >> step into savings with up to. >> 40% off. >> your entire project. saving on new at home? >> call or visit empire. >> call or visit empire. toda some people have minor joint pain plus certain stomach problems. they may not be able to take just anything for pain. that's why doctors recommend tylenol. it won't irritate your stomach the way aleve, advil or motrin can. for trusted relief, trust tylenol. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein,

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about the investigation into the delta plane that overturned on a runway in toronto. this as new video shows the moments leading up to the crash. nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk has the latest there. >> new terrifying video of delta flight 4814 crash landing. >> in toronto. >> oh, no. >> no, no. >> the plane hitting the runway and. >> bursting into flames just before flipping over. >> are you. >> seeing this? >> airplane crashing. >> the video, apparently shot from the cockpit of another plane could be a key piece of evidence. according to nbc news aviation analyst john cox. >> you see that the right wing depart the airplane, and the lack of that wing is what causes the airplane to roll over. >> remarkably. >> no lives. >> were lost in. >> the. >> crash of the 80 people on board. delta airlines says 21 were treated. >> in the hospital. >> 19 have been released. >> the fuselage of. >> the plane still sits on the runway, where it will likely remain for the next two days.

>> according to officials. >> we are currently without use of our longest east west and north south runways. >> canadian investigators, with help from the faa. and the ntsb, will be looking closely at the. >> weather monday. the fire. >> chief said wind was not an issue when the plane. >> crashed. >> but meteorologists reported gusts as strong as 40 miles. >> an hour. >> in the area. >> the conditions were challenging, but nothing more than than professional pilots can handle. >> shocking. >> passenger peter kuckhoff says the descent. >> felt normal. >> until the. >> plane hit the ground. >> did you have a moment where you thought, this is it? >> i think so, yeah. yeah. i mean, i was like, okay, the plane is crashing. like, i'm going to if the plane is crashing, you're not going to live. >> drop it. >> come on. the documentary producer shooting this video of people scrambling to get off the plane after being suspended upside down in. their seats. kuckhoff struck. >> by how the flight attendants remained calm. >> and helpful. >> i feel like everybody handled it pretty well considering we

were in a plane crash. >> that was nbc's stephanie gosk reporting. truly miraculous on the ground there in toronto. that wasn't worse. president trump, meanwhile, says he has ordered the justice department to fire all remaining biden era u.s. attorneys painting the move as an effort to end the so-called politicalization in the department of justice. trump made the announcement in a social media post, adding, quote, we must clean house immediately. last week, the trump administration sent termination notices to as many as a dozen u.s. attorneys appointed by president biden. and although u.s. attorneys appointed by biden were always expected to leave at some point during the new administration, it's trump's direct involvement here that's unusual. and that's another break with the norms, because in the past, the justice department has asked politically appointed u.s. attorneys from former administrations to resign. during biden's presidency, trump appointed u.s. attorneys were asked to resign by doj, and they were given three weeks to leave on a set date. so there's what's normal.

and then there's the parts of this that are not functioning as they typically would. the trump administration sweeping federal layoffs could soon impact the defense department, according to the washington post. administration officials directed agencies within the dod to turn over a list of probationary employees. yesterday, five people familiar with the matter tell the post. the expectation is that many of those staffers could be fired as soon as this week. it comes after members of elon musk's dodge team visited the pentagon on friday, and lawmakers in new york are calling on health and human services secretary robert f kennedy jr to reverse recent cdc cuts that impact a program for september 11th. survivors. as part of the trump administration's recent layoffs, more than a dozen employees at the world trade center health program were were fired recently. the program provides screenings and medications to more than 100,009 11 survivors at no cost. in a joint letter to secretary kennedy, senate minority leader chuck schumer and senator kirsten gillibrand

asked that those employees be reinstated, writing in part to save funding for 9/11 first responders is government waste is outrageous and insulting. still ahead, we'll turn to sports with the latest highlights in college hoops. plus, after years of being tested in the minor leagues, the new automated ball strike challenge system is being called up to the majors for a tryout during spring training. those stories, plus a check on the weather forecast when way too early returns. but first, we want to know why are you awake? email your reasons to way too early at msnbc.com or tell me on social media at ali vitali using the hashtag way too early. we'll read our favorite answers later read our favorite answers later in the show. ♪♪ vicks vapostick provides soothing non-medicated vicks vapors. easy to apply for the whole family. vicks vapostick. and try new vaposhower max for steamy vicks vapors.

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>> skywalker. >> colin carr ties it there with that big dunk from michigan state late in the first half. and the spartans never trailed again, beating the boilermakers 75 to 66 last night to send purdue on its first three game losing streak in five years. meanwhile, in utah, the freefall continued for the kansas jayhawks last night. ranked number one in the preseason, kansas will likely be out of the top 25 come monday, after the worst loss to an unranked opponent in program history. the 91 to 57 blowout by byu marks the cougars largest ever margin of victory against a ranked opponent. and former illinois basketball star terrence shannon junior is making the best of an embarrassing situation after his jersey was positioned upside down during its unveiling at a halftime retirement ceremony on saturday. shannon now turning the gaffe into good with the sale of a new shirt for charity that reads when life has you upside down, turn it around. i

like that, that's good. and major league baseball will try out some new technology this season. after years of experimenting in the minors, the so-called automated ball strike challenge system will be tested by 13 big league teams in spring training. more than half of the games will feature abs, with rules that allow teams opportunities to challenge those calls. and the world champion los angeles dodgers will open training in arizona tomorrow afternoon against the chicago cubs. and with that, now we go for a look at the weather, where meteorologist angie lassman always calls her own balls and strikes. what do you got for us today, my friend? >> you know what? >> unfortunately. >> i got more winter weather and. >> more. >> cold air in place for a big chunk of the country. let's start with. >> that. >> wintry weather. we've got 45 million people under these winter alerts. you can see it extends basically from the tennessee valley out. >> east. >> towards the carolinas. we've got heavy rain across the gulf coast, heavy snow. working across the tennessee valley. and all of this is going to be on the move as the day goes on. now, the good news is this is

going to inch closer to the coast and eventually be offshore here as the as we get through today. but between now and then we've got heavy rain, heavy snow, the potential for some icy conditions as well across that region. and then tomorrow the system is gone. but we've got this kind of cold wind coming across the lakes. that means more of that lake effect snow that will be possible across that region. >> some impressive. >> snowfall totals, too, especially across parts of virginia and north carolina. notice 6 to 8in will be possible for some of these folks, specifically virginia beach, up to ten inches through tonight. the roads are going to be difficult there. i 64 specifically, along with i-95 and i-40 across parts of the carolinas. that is going to be a little icy. you'll notice that here, as we deal with some of that freezing rain on top of that. boy, is it cold. we've got cold weather alerts from basically the northern portions of the country all the way down to the south, stretching into texas. and this is for good reason. three degrees is what it feels like, or rather, what it is in kansas city feeling like -12. right now we've got 24 below for the wind chill in minneapolis. and these

temperatures, they don't improve all that much by the time later in the day rolls around. we've got 40 in alexandria, 20 in parts of texas, just eight degrees for the high in topeka today, chicago tops out at 17. these temperatures are way below normal for this time of year, and it extends farther to the south and east, too. look at tomorrow 36 degrees for atlanta. that's all you're going to get. we've got 20 in new york. winter is here to stay for now. >> ali winter is here and kind of overstaying its welcome. i agree. yeah andrew lassman thank you my friend. and still ahead this morning we've got the latest on the confirmation process for president trump's remaining cabinet nominees, including his pick for labor secretary, who's a former congresswoman already facing criticism from some republicans. we're going to dig into that next on way too early. >> attention. >> have you. >> been diagnosed. >> with non-hodgkin's. >> lymphoma after using the weedkiller roundup? >> nearly $11. >> billion. >> has already been paid to settle thousands of victims claims. >> and. >> you may. >> be entitled to financial

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again, nine tablets for just $7 is try friday plans.com. >> donald trump is defending. >> the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal. >> government now. >> can discriminate. >> against the citizens of the country. >> we are all watching and waiting to see who is going. >> to hold the line. >> don't miss the weekends,

saturday. >> and sunday mornings at. >> 8:00 on msnbc. >> the show. >> began and. >> continues being. >> the place. >> to have the hard conversations. >> welcome back to way too early. just before 530 on the east coast. 230 out west. i'm ali vitali. the senate has voted along party lines to advance kash patel's nomination to be the next director of the fbi. the final count there was 48 to 45, with seven senators not voting. the procedural move now sets up patel for two more procedural votes later today, with the first at 11 a.m. and the second around 1 p.m. the senate also voted to confirm howard lutnick as commerce secretary. the final tally there was 51 to 45, also along party lines. lutnick is the former ceo of the major financial services firm cantor fitzgerald. he became a key economic adviser to trump this past year, and also served as co-chair of his

transition team. and then there's president trump's pick to lead the labor department, she said, to appear for her senate confirmation hearing later this morning. former republican congresswoman lori chavez-deremer will appear before the senate health, education, labor and pensions committee or help committee. she's expected to be grilled by republicans, republicans over her support for pro-union legislation that would essentially provide protections for workers seeking to organize a union. because of that, chavez-deremer has already lost the support of at least one republican senator on the committee. that's rand paul of kentucky. joining us now to talk about the implications of that. congressional reporter for the associated press, matt brown. so let's just start there with chavez-deremer. is rand paul essential to this? i think the answer in the short term is yes when it comes to the committee. but is there any way to get him out of the no column and into the yes column? because it would be notable that of all the controversial nominees, it's chavez-deremer who could have some trouble? >> yeah, we're. >> seeing. >> a bit of a scrambling of the normal.

>> partizan lines here, but a lot of. rand paul's colleagues actually were just saying in the hallways yesterday that when. >> he. >> gets something in his head, it's very difficult to get him off of this. but they're hopeful that he's going to be the only. republican who's going to break ranks he and hopeful also that maybe. >> in a closely. >> divided senate. >> you might. >> be able to still get some democratic support for chavez-deremer. >> before you even get out. and i'm sorry, before you even get out of the committee, you or before you even get to the floor, you got to get out of the committee. so if rand paul stays with his no vote and no democrats across party lines, because we were talking in the break, none of these people are up for reelection. and i can't imagine they're too thrilled with everything the administration has been doing. he gets reported out unfavorably. so what? right. >> it's an interesting. >> situation, because he likely would be able. to hold the endorsement of this committee if he comes out. >> and withholds his support. >> and all democrats keep together, there's no incentive for democrats at the moment, given everything. >> else the trump administration. >> is. doing to support this nominee. they see this as a constitutional crisis in many ways. and if rand paul has his own personal reasons for

opposing chavez-deremer, they see that as a way to oppose the. broader trump agenda here, that they see chavez-deremer, regardless of what her past has been as as still supporting and still standing by this administration. >> and. >> of course, rand paul has said, okay, if she says she doesn't actually support the pro act, i'll support her, but we'll of course, be listening. if that's something that she comes up with later today in this hearing. and the other piece of this that we've been following for the last few weeks is kash patel. the fact that his confirmation is moving up continuously, however procedurally slow democrats have made the process. what does that tell you about the senate? how are democrats talking about this moment? >> democrats have made very clear that they see kash patel as fundamentally unqualified for this position, and also a danger to really the independence of the fbi as a law enforcement agency. so they have thrown up gum the works of, as you said, in every single way possible, you know, extended the time as long as they possibly can have made clear that they're going to vote against this nomination. that said, patel has been seen as a as a strong contender among republicans who want to support

trump's reimagining of the fbi, shall we say, and don't see a lot of the conflicts of interest that have been alleged and other issues that have been brought up in patel's hearings and other places as as disqualifying. so this is going to be a real showdown for our republicans, going to break ranks with donald trump on any of these issues, or are they going to stand behind even his most controversial nominees? >> and the test of that at each turn that we've seen, it has been they'll go with the white house separate from the confirmation battles. the senate is beginning its budget reconciliation process. it got voted out of committee last week, and now they're taking it to the full floor. talk about the budget process. i mean, i know you've got a vote a rama, which was one of my favorite things when i was still covering congress every day, was the idea that these senators would just stay up late. and democrats now have a plan of basically tossing as many problematic amendment votes at republicans, hoping that they can stick them with some of this stuff in 2026. but talk about the budget contours here. >> yeah. so broadly speaking, the government is still figuring

out. republicans have broadly come up with their plan, and they know that they're going to be passing at the moment here, you know, some restrictions to the budget, some some major cuts here and there. but at the moment, democrats know that one of the reasons, as you said, that they are going they are going to be focused mostly on highlighting the number of cuts here and the number of places that they believe the american people are going to be standing with republicans, which is what this vote a rama is going to be about. the number of amendments are going to be showing and highlighting places where they see republicans have gone beyond their mandate, basically. yeah. >> and for viewers, the voter rama is not just a very fun term that we use in congress, but it's also one of the procedural steps that you have to go through if you want to do the reconciliation process, which is largely a partizan process and one that is going to be quite thorny, i think, for republicans, because the house has its own way of wanting to do it. the senate moving forward with its own separate way of wanting to do it. we're in for it. congressional reporter for the associated press, matt brown, thanks for joining us. still ahead this morning, what we're learning about the totally

different space rock that could hit earth. yeah, within the next decade. just what we need. way too early. we'll be right back. >> every day feels like, you know, trying to put 10 pounds of news into a 5 pound bag. do you think it matters that people are standing up for usaid and foreign aid in the history of the agency? has any other president ever tried to remove a member of the board the way donald trump tried to remove you? what do you think democrats can do right now, in opposition, to try to mitigate some of the harm that's being caused as they dismantle the federal government? the opposition is now awake and increasingly emboldened. told you it's on. it is on. >> home. the place where you create those special moments. >> we celebrate the home and the way you live in it. at three day blinds, we. >> help you. >> create that special place. and because we know you're busy,

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chances of an asteroid hitting earth are now higher than ever. sure, that's according to astronomers, who say the asteroid, designated 2024 y r4, has become the most likely sizable space rock ever forecast to impact our planet. the object is 130 to 300ft long and expected to make a very close pass of earth in 2032, so you got a little bit of time. astronomers also noted that if there's a direct hit, it could scar or demolish a city. great possible impact locations include large cities such as bogota, lagos and mumbai. so what is the best case scenario in all of this? experts say that if the asteroid explodes above the ocean, it won't be particularly concerning because it's unlikely to cause a significant tsunami. all right, that's an option then. and then there's this. california highway patrol had to rescue a sea lion who was spotted on a busy roadway in the san francisco area. officials received a call last week about a seal pup

wandering in the traffic lanes of a highway. oh, no. officers say they used their best coaching skills to safely guide the pup to the shoulder, allowing it to eventually make its way back into the san francisco bay. and that's not the only wandering seal story. on the east coast. a different pup was found making its way to a pizza shop in new haven, connecticut. at least it's got good taste in pizza. officials there say they expect to see even more baby seals this time of year. since it's the start of seal season, the pups come ashore to catch some sun, but also can end up stranded when trying to avoid people. still ahead this morning, new york governor kathy hochul is considering removing eric adams as mayor of new york city. we'll have the latest on that as a court is set to weigh in today on the justice department's recommendation to drop the charges against him way too charges against him way too early. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now...

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1-800-403-7539. that's 1-800-403-7539. go beyond the headlines with the msnbc app. read, listen and watch live breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere. go beyond the what? to understand the why. download the msnbc app now. msnbc presents a new podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> welcome back. the judge overseeing the federal case into mayor eric adams will hold a hearing today on the justice department's request to drop the

charges against him. the judge will have the final say on whether to allow the doj to dismiss the case against the mayor or conduct a thorough investigation into why the motion was filed in the first place. this comes as new york state governor kathy hochul weighs removing the mayor from office. hochul held a meeting yesterday with city leaders on the possibility of using her gubernatorial powers to force adams from his post. reverend al sharpton, who was among those to meet with the mayor yesterday, later spoke to reporters. >> the governor said to me that she's going to see what the judge decides tomorrow and keep deliberating with other leaders. my feeling is that the faith of the of city people have been shaken, and there needs to be a resolve. but at the same time, we must protect the law and not establish a precedent that could come back to haunt us. >> in more than 250 years of history. the new york city mayor has never been removed from office, and only twice has a

mayor ever stepped down. both were as a result of corruption scandals. the last time that happened was in the 19. it was in 1950. joining us now, associate professor of political science at fordham university, christina greer, and also with us, former assistant district attorney in manhattan and nbc news legal analyst catherine christian. catherine, first to you. we know that later this afternoon afternoon, the department of justice is going to have to argue why it wants to dismiss the case against mayor adams. what do you think that argument could sound like? >> well, i think the judge is going to ask very pointed questions of the government because in light of now former acting u.s. attorney sassoon's letter, a very detailed letter where she explicitly said that the reason why the government is dismissing this case with prejudice without prejudice, which means it can be brought back, is because there was. >> a deal. >> with mayor adams that he would play ball, he would follow the immigration policies of the trump administration and that

the judge may find improper. so the judge will just pointedly ask, was federal immigration policies brought up during the discussion about whether this case should be dismissed? who brought it up? what was said? and so i don't expect the government to say, yes, of course, your honor. the only reason why we're doing. >> this is. >> because mayor adams. >> agreed that he will. >> follow immigration policies. but it will be interesting what they will say. and the judge has a role to play. prosecutors can dismiss. they have broad discretion to dismiss or bring charges, but judges have a role to make sure it's not against public interest. they're not just potted plants that are going to rubber stamp what the government says. >> and then i want to just stay on the legal piece of this before i turn to the politics with you, christina. because, catherine, what happens if the judge says, yeah, i don't see it? i'm not going to dismiss this. >> well, then we'll see what happens. donald trump can then do like he did in the michael flynn case in the first administration. michael flynn was prosecuted. he pled guilty.

>> the trump doj moved to dismiss. >> the case. and that judge put the brakes on it. and so donald trump pardoned him. or doj can say, well, we're not going to send our prosecutors to prosecute this case. then what will the judge. will he hold them in contempt? then that will be appealed to the second circuit court of appeals. and then what will the second circuit do? and if they rule against the department of justice, guess what? the department of justice, the trump administration will try to seek cert before the supreme court. but again, this could be all stopped if there is a pardon by donald trump. >> it's a fascinating legal scenario. and then, christina, turning to you for the politics of this, because that's an equally thorny situation for governor hochul. what do you think she's hearing in these meetings that she's holding? i know reverend sharpton. sharpton was among them. in my conversations with sources on the ground, there's sort of dual considerations here for hochul. it's her 2026 gubernatorial prospects, but then also talking

to black community leaders within new york about what would what it would look like if adams were removed. talk to us about the contours. >> yeah. >> you laid that. >> out perfectly. and what reverend sharpton said in that. >> clip was, you know, this could set a terrible precedent for. >> a governor removing. >> a mayor. and so until, as catherine laid out so diligently, until the courts come back and essentially say which direction we're going in. kathy hochul is essentially sitting on her hands just so she doesn't jump the gun too, too much. we know that she's meeting with congressional leaders. we know that we have a very active primary process in effect right now. our democratic primary is on june 24th. however, none of those candidates have really emerged as a foil to eric adams. we know andrew cuomo or formally disgraced governor of new york, is waiting in the wings and is picking up steam. but that is also a thorny issue because he has had a complicated relationship with black leaders and black community in the past, and so we're still unclear.

also, the court of public opinion keeps changing. there are many people who are disappointed in eric adams. you know, as the second black mayor of new york city, however, is the city thriving? it could be much better. we've had way too much turnover and lack of leadership. i think many people wish his managerial style was stronger. but is it surviving? absolutely. are there certain communities that are very happy? business, labor, real estate, they're still afloat. so it's not as though new york city is falling off of a cliff. and we know that that does matter when we go to the to the election booth. and for who's supporting the mayor financially and otherwise. >> right. but then it also is important for governor hochul, who has said that as long as manhattan and as long as as long as new york city is able to continue being functional, as long as voters are still being served, constituents are served. that's going to be part of her weighing this process. and so let let's let's play out the scenario that that catherine was

was teasing out for us. the judge asks all these pointed questions. and then it ultimately does not result in a dismissal. does that then ratchet up the pressure on the governor to take these steps? if the courts are going to continue drawing the process out? >> it does. >> you know, but i think what kathy hochul, you know, some argue that she's moving too slowly, but this is not something that she's taking lightly. you know, leaving her 2026 reelection prospects aside, this could, as laid out, set up a really dangerous precedent of a governor removing a mayor, especially the mayor of new york city. you know, when you read eric adams indictment, it is, you know, disappointing, to say the very least. you know, is it something that we have not ever seen before? no. sadly, this is run of the mill, you know, corruption allegations that we've seen time and time again from various mayors across the country. and so i don't think governor hochul wants to be ahead of the game. she really does want the legal process to play out. and as long as it takes.

>> so we know what governor hochul is going to be watching today. catherine, i wonder, as we talk about the uncharted waters that the governor is considering wading into. my understanding is that would be a really lengthy process. i mean, do you think that has any bearing? and legally, might that not just spur more questions, more lawsuits? >> it certainly will. and let me make it clear. mayor adams is not a convicted felon. he has been charged with crimes. senator menendez did not resign until after he became a convicted felon. so we should remember there is an innocent until proven guilty in in this country. and so mayor adams should be cloaked with that innocence until he's proven guilty. >> it's also the thing that i've heard from my democratic sources in new york. they've been quick to say that they want the legal process to play out. of course, the complicating factor to letting the legal process play out is the way that the trump doj has now seemingly inserted itself and added this veil of is

it a quid pro quo? are they only doing this for political reasons? it makes a tough situation that much more complex. christina greer and catherine christian, thank you both for coming on this morning to talk about it. and earlier in the show, we asked you, the viewers, why are you awake? one viewer tells us they're up with a head cold. oh no. but they're hoping to gain some knowledge from today's show. feel better. and i hope you learned something too. jolinda writes she's up celebrating her birthday. happy birthday to you. and another viewer tweeted that we're better than sports center. yeah, this is an actual review we got calling us more interesting. look, i'm no sports expert, but i'll definitely take the compliment. coming up next, this morning, president donald trump signs an executive order calling for expanded ivf access and reduced costs. we'll have the details straight ahead. and coming up on morning joe live reporting from ukraine. as trump suggests, the country was responsible for russia's invasion. plus, peter baker of the new york times will join

with his reporting on the peace talks as trump's pivot toward putin and russia upends generations of u.s. policy. also ahead, a member of the foreign relations committee, democratic senator chris, will join the conversation, fresh from the munich security conference. morning joe is just moments away. >> imagine a switch that could wipe your personal data off the internet with one click. incogni stops identity thieves and protects your privacy. turn on one switch to limit unwanted robocalls and spam emails, and to reduce exposure to data breaches. >> switch on peace of mind. >> switch on peace of mind. >> at harbor freight, we do business differently from the other guys. we design and test our own tools and sell them directly to you. no middleman. just quality tools you can trust at prices

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waiting to see. >> who is going to hold the line. >> don't miss the weekends. >> saturday, and sunday. >> mornings at. >> eight on msnbc. >> this show. began and continues being. >> the place. >> to. >> have the hard conversations. >> president trump has signed an executive order calling for lower costs and expanded access to in vitro fertilization, or ivf. the order recommends reduced costs for accessing the decades old infertility treatment, which can range from 12,000 to $25,000 per cycle. the treatment is often not covered by health insurance providers. the department of health and human services say more than 85,000 infants were born as a result of ivf in just 2021 alone. while campaigning, trump promised to have the government or insurance companies cover the cost of ivf, without specifying how that proposal would work. joining us now, reporter covering politics and reproductive health for the news publication notice, oriana gonzalez. oriana. the white house is now calling this a first step in fulfilling that

campaign promise from the president. but talk about the significance of this order and what exactly it calls for, because to my reading, it still doesn't lay out a plan for how this is going to go. it just directs people to look into that. >> exactly. >> no, precisely. >> so it. >> falls short. >> from that campaign. promise that he made, as you were saying, to have. >> either the. >> government pay for ivf. >> or ensure or make sure that insurers are. >> covering it. what this does. >> instead is. >> direct the domestic policy council to investigate ways to either make ivf more affordable and protect it. >> and what. >> we're waiting for now is that that those policy recommendations from the domestic policy council will come in 90 days or within 90 days of the order being placed. so that's really what we're. >> going to have. >> to see exactly whether, how, how those promises will be fulfilled. >> because you're such an expert on these issues, how much can trump really do on the cost of ivf? and is he going to need congress to help him on this?

>> that's i. >> mean, that is the. >> million dollar question, right? like for. >> a mandate, like the one that he was saying in his promise. >> he does. >> need congress in. >> order to be able to make. >> that sort of promise that insurers are going to be. >> required to do it. but what we've. seen from the trump administration in the first month is this. >> you know, desire to. challenge the status quo. >> so, again, we're. >> going to have to wait. >> and see. >> what the domestic. >> policy council finds. but when it comes to sort of like these policy mandates, whether insurers are required. >> to. cover or. >> not, that's supposed. to come from an act. >> of congress. and so. >> far, to be honest. >> what i've. heard from republicans. >> is that, well, at the time last week, they hadn't seen the proposal. >> they believe. >> that most of the conference. >> in the. >> senate and in the house. >> support measures to. >> protect ivf. >> it's a pretty striking thing for republicans to say, though, especially because i remember about a year ago, i was asking nikki haley, who at that point was running for the republican nomination, if a ruling in alabama that assigned personhood

rights to embryos created through ivf, did she agree with that? there were some republicans who shared her position that embryos or babies? that was her quote, trump, of course, distanced himself from that. but it really touched off this circle of republicans having to respond to the fact that in some ways, ivf is directly in contrast with their anti-abortion position. i mean, how have they reconciled that or have they? so i think at the. >> time they were really. caught off guard. >> with that. >> alabama ruling. >> so what we saw from. >> republicans definitely was scrambling. >> to figure out how to respond to that, given, again, how. >> reproductive health. >> was such. >> a big messaging. >> tool for democrats. >> but what we're seeing now, i think, with, you know. trump calling himself. >> the. >> father of. >> ivf during the. >> campaign trail. >> making promises. >> about. >> protecting ivf, about. covering costs, is really republicans in congress falling in. >> line with what. he's saying. so that's kind of, you know, again, it gets to the point of how much influence and power. >> the president.

>> has over republicans in congress. we shall see, though, exactly what happens in three. >> months. >> once the or. within three months, once those policy recommendations come in, and. >> whether congress is required. >> to act. >> because that could be one of. >> the recommendations. >> that the. >> domestic policy council makes. >> yeah, that's going to be huge. and it would mark some major shifts for republicans if they're just willing to get on board with this now. oriana gonzalez, we'll definitely have you back to talk about that. thank you. thank you. that was way too early for this wednesday morning. morning joe starts right now. >> what we're about to do here is. >> a neighborly act. >> we're like a group of householders. >> living. >> in the. >> same locality. >> who decide. >> to. >> express their community. interests by entering. into a formal association for their mutual self-protection. >> all free. >> men, wherever. >> they may live, are citizens of berlin and. >> therefore.

>> as a