>> pack today. >> just call 88844. stay dry. >> donald trump is defending the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal government. >> now can discriminate against. >> the citizens of the country. >> we are all watching and waiting to see who is going to hold the line. >> don't miss the weekends. >> saturday. >> and sunday mornings at eight. >> on msnbc. >> president trump's first 100 days. watch. >> i'm going. >> to be here five days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up. >> half. >> the night reading. >> executive orders. >> for this. >> defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> good to be.

>> with you. i'm katy tur. katy tur. excuse me. >> what will. >> judge dale ho do right now in his court? >> mayor eric adams and prosecutors from the doj are trying to convince him. it's in the public's interest to drop the corruption case against adams. will the judge agree? judge ho is supposed to act as the representative of the people in a situation like this. and in theory, he could reject d.o.j. bid to stop the prosecution. in practice, though, that might be difficult. what is also difficult in this moment is the political position that mayor adams finds himself in. this alleged quid pro quo between adams and donald trump's doj dropped the case for immigration enforcement is now making regular new yorkers uncomfortable, especially after news that four of the city's deputy mayors are resigning in protest of adams. the new york times spoke with dozens of new yorkers from across the boroughs on their souring opinion of the

mayor, with one in particular calling him a puppet of the trump administration. quote, he's the pinocchio mayor. beyond big city politics, there are also big corruption concerns rattling our constitutional democracy. in an op ed for the free press, former trump ally and former new jersey governor chris christie argues congress and the courts need to assert themselves. writing, quote, weaponization of the law is wrong, not just some of the time, but all of the time. i have always believed and said repeatedly it was wrong when the manhattan district attorney's office did it in the criminal case it brought against president trump. it is just as wrong here when it appears to be used as both an inducement and a cudgel to enforce other administration policy goals. let's figure out what's going on right now inside that courtroom. joining us outside of the courthouse, new york city. the courthouse in new york city. nbc

news correspondent rehema ellis, also outside of the courthouse. if i can talk to a criminal defense attorney and former manhattan prosecutor duncan levin and the president of the national action network and host of politics nation right here on msnbc, reverend al sharpton. all right, so emil beauvais. beauvais. excuse me. rehema is arguing right now that the prosecution needs to be dropped because of national security. >> yeah, it seems to be one of the arguments, because what happened when he was indicted, mayor adams was denied his clearance for national security. and the prosecution is not the. yes, the prosecution is arguing that that's an impediment to the to the mayor being able to do his job in a city like new york, where threats to security are common, they are well known. here we are in the city where ground 0 in 9 over 11 happened. so he's saying that's one of the reasons why they want this dismissed. it's interesting, one

of the questions that the judge asked of beauvais in his back and forth with him was the fact that you're asking for this to be dismissed without prejudice. he's saying, could the department of justice refile charges against the mayor at some later date? and beauvais says that would be up to the discretion of the department. he went on to the judge did, to ask mayor adams whether or not he had been promised anything as a result of the dismissal. he said no, he said, if you've written anything, he just wanted to make it very clear, to find out very clearly from the mayor whether or not there was anything in exchange. you were talking about. there's been some concern from attorneys, those who resigned from their post here, that there was some quid pro quo with this request for a dismissal, meaning that the charges would be dismissed. but in turn, the mayor would cooperate with the trump administration in terms of enforcement of immigration policies. the mayor is saying

that there are no promises here and that he would do his job. he was also saying that if the charges were brought back against him, he said, your honor, i did not commit any crime suggesting that he will continue to defend himself vigorously if in the event that these charges are dropped and they are brought forward, or even if the judge refuses to dismiss these charges. >> katie duncan, let me ask you about the judge's role here. why does the federal government even need to take this case in front of a judge? they want to drop the charges. why do they have to get that okayed? >> well. >> the federal rules of criminal. >> procedure have. >> a specific provision. >> saying that there needs to be. >> the permission. >> of the judge. >> to be. >> able to sign off on this. >> now, you could say, well, why is that? because the judge has. >> virtually no power. as beauvais said in court today. >> the court really has. >> very little power here at all. >> except to maybe make a record. i think this is almost a piece of judicial.

>> theater, because. >> at the end of the day, even if the judge is in a position. >> to say. >> that these charges can't, can't. >> go forward and. >> has to have. >> to be reinstated. >> there's really not much that he can do to force the prosecution. >> other than having. >> an. >> empty chair sit there. >> so there's very little power he has, and so it's almost. >> perfunctory at this point. >> it's just. a vestige. >> of. the federal rules of criminal procedure to, to, you know, permit this to go forward. >> duncan, there's been quite an outcry about this. i know danielle sassoon alleged a quid pro quo. adams is denying this. but if you just read the paperwork that we've seen on it, you do see emil beauvais saying that they needed mayor adams help for immigration. he said it again today, calling the immigration issue part of a national security threat. is this something that you've seen before in in your history as a, as a lawyer, where there has been a situation where the federal government steps in and says, no, we don't want to do

this prosecution, at least in the past 30 or 40 years. >> no, i mean, this is without precedent. i know we always. >> throw that term around. >> with with the trump administration. but it's without precedent because emil beauvais is sitting there. >> right. >> now and he's all alone. and what's ironic. >> about it is that. >> he's gone through all these career prosecutors. >> to try. >> to get someone to sign on to the paperwork, to. >> recommend the dismissal. >> of these charges. >> today, as we are standing. >> outside the courtroom. >> emil beauvais is sitting there all alone. until recently, he was a criminal. >> defense attorney. >> and now he's. representing the. >> entire united. >> states department. >> of justice. >> recommending that these. >> charges get dismissed. >> he couldn't bring another. prosecutor with him. >> because he. >> went through soy of the who resigned in. >> protest over this. >> and i think what's striking. >> about it is that if you look. >> at danielle. >> sassoon's letter, for. >> example, she could have resigned in a one paragraph letter, but instead she chose to write a nine page letter laying out really for. >> the judge. >> and for the public all the

reasons why this case should. >> go forward. >> and so it's without precedent for so many reasons. but i think it opens up a window showing that there are a lot of prosecutors at the department of justice who are very principled public servants who are there to do the right thing, and he can keep going through hundreds of them until he finds somebody who's willing to sign on and stand before the judge. he came and did it alone. it's a very lonely seat today, sitting there in that courtroom, but in fact, it's the most powerful seat because there's really very little that anyone can do to stop him. >> all right. so let's talk about the political implications here. i know you're, you know, a longtime ally of mayor adams, but the city seems to be questioning his leadership right now. you've got the deputy mayor stepping down. there are questions about how the government is going to adequately be able to function in a moment like this. there's also questions from individual new yorkers about where mayor adams allegiance now lies. you heard me mention a moment ago, the new york times did some

reporting on this. i mean, i've certainly had conversations with tons of folks in this city, but one gentleman in particular saying, he's a puppet, he's a pinocchio mayor. now, how tenable is this position of his? >> i think. that i made it clear that i've been a friend of the mayor's for years, but we have disagreed, and i strongly disagree that the mayor is some victim of a political vendetta. i said that to him. i said that any number of times in public, and i think that it was in the mayor's interest to go to trial and prove himself innocent. if he's innocent, just because someone has been you've been knowing a lot of years does not mean that you're going to not look at the fact that it is very suspect to me that this white house and this justice department wanted to have the trial put off with prejudice, with no prejudice, so that they can try him again when if they

felt he was if president trump genuinely felt that he was a victim of a political vendetta, then why didn't he pardon him? and my only answer that i could think of, he wouldn't pardon hi, because then they wouldn't have this leash to yank on him if he didn't do what they wanted him to do. when he sat on fox television the other morning and he said to his face, you know, if you didn't do what we wanted, i'd be up your. but i've never seen a mayor of a major city, the major city in the country, so humiliated. and he took that. so i've said, and i repeat, that i think that the culprit in this is the trump administration manipulating this situation, having the people fight against a black us attorney, damien williams, against a black mayor, and having us in the middle of the people will decide the primary and an election. but i think this judge today, having

little power, whatever power he has, or to raise the question, do you have evidence to say that this was a political vendetta? what is the evidence? do you have evidence to say that the indict him nine months before the primary is too short? a time when many people campaign early? so that would mean all you have to do is say, i'm going to i'm going to run for office to stop an indictment. and do you have any evidence of that standing up saying, i agree with the president on immigration or i agree with the president on other matters. it's grounds for a criminal indictment voted by the grand jury should not stand. that, to me, would be unprecedented. >> rev, you know, you know the city as well as i do. and, you know, there are quite a few people in the city who want more immigration enforcement who don't think it's fair what's happening with the migrants are uncomfortable with it. it's part of the reason why donald trump got more votes in the city last time around than he did when he

first ran. how does mayor adams, how does he accomplish that without tarnishing it? for everybody who may even want that? how does he continue to lead this city? why has he not resigned? >> you'd have to ask him. i really don't know. there are many that have said he should resign. but would you have to say, though, even if he's right on the immigration policy and he and i disagree, and we've talked about that disagreement on the immigration policy, separation of families, just arbitrarily taking people, disregarding safe spaces like churches and schools is, to me, unthinkable. but even if you agree with his immigration policy, do you then therefore give him criminal immunity? this is what we're talking about. you're setting a precedent that now, if somebody is in office and doing something that you like, you can wipe them

clean in terms of criminal prosecution, prosecution, that's the threat. and as far as immigration policy, the same president that says he's cracking down on the people from mexico and haiti coming across the border, just said that he would give refugee status to whites in south africa, thinks are being oppressed. and he's asking canada to join us as a 51st state. you can't have it both ways. either the country can't handle more, or we're saying we can only handle certain kind of people. >> certain kind of people. powerful imagery there saying that mayor adams is on a leash. reverend al sharpton, always, thank you so much for joining us. it's good to have you, duncan levin. thank you as well. we're going to watch this story, see what the judge decides and then see what happens to mayor eric adams going forward. again, there is a primary in new york coming up in june and an election in september. still ahead, doge has its sights on america's largest government agency. what cuts the pentagon is bracing for. plus, everything

from trail maintenance on, you know, cleaning out toilets to search and rescue what my next guest is warning about the federal firings across our national parks. how will people be able to continue visiting safely? and the war of words between donald trump and volodymyr zelensky is escalating what it means for the ongoing peace talks with russia, which ukraine so far has been excluded ukraine so far has been excluded from. we are back in 90s. with fatigue and light-headedness, i knew something was wrong. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk.

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♪♪ within the federal bureaucracy in service of reducing the national debt. but budget experts tell nbc news they are more concerned about the cost of president trump's policies, arguing that even with the doge cuts, his legislative agenda, big tax cuts could add between 5 and $10 trillion to the deficit over ten years. that being said, there is one place that has long been pointed to as bloated and unaccountably expensive, and that's the department of defense. and while it's usually democrats who would argue for cuts at the government's largest agency, it is doge that might end up doing it. according to the washington post, defense agencies were given a deadline of this past tuesday to turn over a list of their probationary employees, with the

expectation that many could be fired. joining us now, nbc news senior correspondent covering national security, and the pentagon, courtney kube. you know, i wonder if that that the way i've phrased that is entirely fair, because when you're looking at the department of defense's budget, the individuals within the department of defense are not really what's most costly there. >> yeah, that's. >> absolutely true. actually. >> it's. >> the programs. >> it's the equipment. >> it's the giant. >> systems that cost the most money. >> and in this case, you know, doge is here in the pentagon. >> they've been here at. >> least this. >> week since. >> at least tuesday, if not before. we have asked the pentagon multiple times for the names or any titles. >> or any information. >> about the individuals who are here working. for the department of government efficiency. they have not provided us with any specifics, but. >> i can tell you they're walking around the building. >> we're seeing them here. >> so what we're expecting that they are first looking at are these probationary employees, as you mentioned. now, these are civilians, not uniformed

military, who are expected to be exempt, but civilians. >> who are working. >> here for the department of defense, it could be as many as 700,000 dod civilians right now. the ones who are probationary are ones who have worked in their job for less than a year, or in some cases, less than two years, depending on how senior they are in their individual department. and those are the ones who are now, frankly, vulnerable to doge, who is looking to make some cuts. now, this all comes at the same time that we are just learning. secretary of defense pete hegseth is considering a slate of general officers and flag officers, admirals to potentially fire. this is something that we have also been expecting for some time now. we're now told that it could be as early as this week that individuals who have close ties to the former secretary of defense, lloyd austin, individuals who who have been deeply involved in diversity, equity and inclusion policies or events here in the department of defense or others who may be seen as having opinions or views

that are contrary to president donald trump. they could be vulnerable for these cuts. this is something that we've been expecting. but now, katie, according to two defense officials and three congressional officials, it seems as this as if the potential for these firings could be as as early as this week or or next. >> when you're talking about the civilians who are probationary employees, if you got rid of a number of them, are you eating into national security issues? >> so what we expect, i mean, look, i'll be very candid with you here, katie. we're not getting a lot of information about this. what we expect is that those individuals, even if they're in a probationary period of their employment, if they have a direct tie or link to a urgent national security issue or matter, that they will be exempt. but i got to tell you, we'll just have to see, because we're just not getting a lot of information here. >> well, they they dismissed a bunch of nuclear safety experts and then tried to hire them

back, but we're worried that they wouldn't be able to find them. and they dismissed a bunch of scientists working on bird flu that they're now trying to rehire back. so whether they're actually being as surgical as maybe they're claiming, it's not just clear at the moment. courtney, qb, thank you so much for trying to get us some answers. and the department of the interior has already been cut. d.o.j. has eliminated at least 3000 employees across the united states forest service and the national park service. workers who maintain and clean the grounds, educate and guide visitors, and train the thousands of seasonal hands that the service relies on. together, these agencies oversee a vast expanse of wilderness that would be roughly the size of texas and montana combined. places like zion national forest, yosemite, yellowstone, the grand canyon, the great smoky mountains, and the everglades sites that draw more than 300 million visitors a year. joining us now, senior vice president of government affairs for the national parks

conservation association, kristen bringle. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> who have they eliminated? what do these people do? >> there were. >> a thousand national park staff eliminated on friday. and these are folks who do everything from trail maintenance to visitor services to custodial work in the parks, and even wastewater treatment operators were let go last week. so we're just very concerned about all of the staff who were let go and how this is going to hurt, potentially hurt the parks going into the spring break and summer. >> there's 325 million visitors a year to the national parks, which are all over this country. how do you accommodate all of those visitors? i know there have already been issues accommodating visitors to some of the more popular national parks, because there just aren't enough staff even before this to make sure that everybody's safe,

right? >> since 2010, there's been a drop of 20% of staff in national parks, so they've already been doing more with less. and just as you pointed out, katie, so many parks are dealing with overcrowding right now and they want visitors to come in. but it puts a strain on park service staff because not only are they taking in the influx of visitors, but they're managing traffic, making sure people don't park in the wrong places when they're in the parks. and then just these times of day when there's so many visitors and helping them navigate the park in these crowded areas. and so we love visitors in the national park service, and we love making sure that people have a great visit to these places. but the park service staff have already been stretched in the last 15 years, and this cut is just another blow to their ability to really manage these areas. >> do you expect that some of the parks might have limited

hours now, or maybe some might close down for periods to because there just aren't enough staffers, right. >> so there's about 433 national park units, everything from yellowstone, like you were saying to gettysburg, but also smaller park sites like the frederick frederick douglass house here in washington, dc, and other sort of smaller historical sites. even independence hall in philadelphia. and we're we're worried that those smaller parks that have fewer staff people will potentially have to cut visitor center hours and just the hours of keeping certain facilities open. and so we're worried that folks might show up and not have the ability to actually enter buildings and get the interpretation that they deserve to have in those park units. >> yeah. >> they are magnificent. these parks have been to quite a few of them, and, you know, you don't want to have to limit anyone's experience out there. thank you so much, kristen.

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>> president trump now says ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is a dictator, threatening that if zelensky doesn't roll over, he's not going to have a country left. the aggressive change on donald trump's tone came after zelensky said the american president is living in a disinformation bubble. his words, a response to trump's upside down claim that it was zelensky, not putin, who started the war. >> i hear that, you know, they're upset about not having a seat. well, they've had a seat for three years and a long time before that. this could have been settled very easily. just a half a half baked negotiator could have settled this years ago. the leader in ukraine. i mean, i hate to say it, but he's down at 4% approval rating. and we're a country has been blown to smithereens. you've been there for three years. you should have ended it three years. you should have never started it. you could have made a deal. >> it's not just zelensky who is feeling the whiplash. it's western europe as well. as

leaders try to figure out what to do now that their biggest ally and their friend, the united states, is suddenly acting more like an adversary. joining us now from kharkiv. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, give us the latest. >> reaction. the reaction here is, as expected, a lot of fear. ukrainians are very vulnerable at this moment. they are still under attack. the city where i am right now in kharkiv is under attack daily. i was at the front lines earlier, just on the outskirts of the city, and russian russians attacked with missiles and drones constantly, especially when the weather is clear and the drones get a good view of the tanks and of the positions. and you can see right now some of the soldiers we were talking to, and you get a sense of the freezing conditions, these soldiers in particular, this particular unit, have been at that particular post just outside of kharkiv for the last three years. one of the soldiers told me he hadn't had any leave

except for ten days off over the last three years. so when you talk to these soldiers and you tell them, oh, by the way, the united states might not support you anymore, and president trump believes that ukraine was responsible for launching the war. it makes them offended. it lowers morale. the soldiers told me, and it has a direct impact because they're there. they're there right now, freezing in that in that trench. and they're not sure if they have an ally anymore in president trump. and it seems talking to ukrainians here, that that many people believe that president putin and president trump are, in effect, ganging up on them together and somehow plotting to divide this country. >> what what option does president zelenskyy have? he's not at the negotiating table. does he have an option to keep on fighting if the united states pulls out?

>> well, he's trying to figure that out. and ukraine can keep fighting, but it will be very difficult. and the europeans are frankly, not in a position right now to provide the same kind of troops, the same kind of u.s. isn't providing troops here, but i should say providing t rt of weapons and support for ukrainian troops. so the u.s. is really a irreplaceable ally, and president zelensky has said as much that he doesn't believe that that that that they would he would be able to replace american support if it were suddenly taken away. and i've been speaking to people in zelensky's office as well. and one of them told me, a very senior adviser who i've known for some time, that he believes a lot of this row goes down to president trump's demand for minerals, that that has gotten a little bit lost in all of this. and that, katie, as you know, is happening in the states almost every day where so much is coming out that people, people forget. i spoke with this, this official in zelensky's office

and he and he described to me how trump administration official came with a document, no negotiation, and said, you must sign this. and on the document was a pledge that president zelensky was supposed to sign, handing over 50% of this country's mineral rights, particularly rare earth minerals, and that president zelensky didn't sign it and was told at the time, president trump is not going to like that. he's going to be angry. and he still didn't sign it. and now we're seeing this, this, this, this, this war of words escalating, which has a much more profound implication than just a war of words or an argument. >> yeah. richard engel in kharkiv for us, richard, thank you. and joining us now, editor of the insider, michael weiss. michael, it's really good to have you. it's not even just ukraine. it's western europe that is suddenly feeling like they've lost an ally. you had that emergency informal meeting with western leaders in paris the other day. what position are

they now in with donald trump and vladimir putin negotiating without anybody else involved? >> well. >> i think it's sort of a. >> mixture of. >> emotions and. >> trying to get to the bottom. >> of what's really going on here. i've spoken to european intelligence officials who say. >> you know, look, we're unclear. >> there's a lot of contradictory lines of communication. >> a. >> lot of chaos, and we don't actually see a deal coming together just yet. so we're. in sort of a wait and see mode. that said, i also spoke to european officials who think that the united states is. objectively and subjectively. now on russia's side. i mean, to me. >> the writing. >> has been. >> on the. >> wall for quite a while, and in a way, i think trump has has done us an inadvertent favor in being so clearly and nakedly pro-russia. i mean, this is not really a negotiation when you are. wholesale adopting russian propaganda as your starting point, right? calling zelensky is a dictator who must hold elections. >> i mean, there's martial. >> law in ukraine as a matter of constitutionality. they don't need to and they cannot hold

elections. so the first order of business is lifting martial law, which carries with it a host of complications in terms of the ongoing military effort, the demand for immediate elections, by the way, is a russian demand. so why are we right out of the gate acceding to that? in exchange for what? nothing. i mean, secretary of state marco rubio is very interesting. this is a man who a year ago wrote a letter to president biden on the back of an investigation i was a part of, which suggested the gru, that's russian military intelligence, has been attacking americans with directed energy weapons, so-called havana syndrome. well, now, he says that actually there's a great deal that we can cooperate with the russians on geopolitically and economically. well, which is it is russia at war with not only ukraine and parts of europe, but also the united states? or are there they the best friend we just haven't made yet. and i think you need only see, katy, that russian reaction to this. dimitri medvedev, who is a rather uncorked and erratic but i think kind of an interesting bellwether for the most hawkish element in the russian federation, tweeted. i

mean, he's practically hugging himself with glee. he said. i could not have imagined even months ago, an american president taking this line and calling zelensky a dictator. and by the way, not just a dictator, but also a con artist and a thief who's stolen us money. falsehoods that can be easily debunked by anybody who bothers to check the actual public agency if it hasn't been hollowed out by doge yet, which is responsible for auditing all us security assistance, the bulk of which i need, i remind you, goes to united states manufacturing. a lot of the money we send to ukraine actually gets spent here to develop new weapon systems for our army, while we pass hand-me-down weapons and ammunition to the ukrainians, for which they've been very grateful. but beware the law of unintended consequences. you know, it is true. zelensky has been increasingly unpopular in recent days, and that you would expect that from a war weary and exhausted president who's been in power for as long as he has. but today he got a shot in the arm. i'm seeing memes from ukrainians. one one is a picture of guys having a fistfight, and

that's the state of ukrainian politics in a normal condition. and the other is ukrainian state, very in a civilized manner around a circular table. this is what happens in ukraine when trump attacks our state and our president. so the united states may have inadvertently boosted zelensky's popularity, which, by the way, was much higher than 4%, as donald trump falsely stated the other day. >> really interesting, michael, we're going to have to have it. we're going to have to have you back for a longer conversation. thank you for joining us now. and still ahead, does the democratic party need more alpha males? what donald trump managed to harness during his campaign, that is some on the left thinking maybe. plus, with the hiring freeze on thousands of federal firefighters could mean not just for california, but the upcoming fire season all across upcoming fire season all across the country. you'll love this! centrum silver is clinically proven to support memory in older adults. so you can keep saying, you mastered it! you fixed it! you nailed it! you did it! with centrum silver, clinically proven to support memory in older adults.

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>> warfare campaign against the. >> left, and. >> they are. >> using tactics from the 1990s. what you're seeing on the right is asymmetrical. >> it's like grassroots guerrilla warfare. >> someone says. something on. >> social media. musk retweets. >> it. >> rogan podcasts it, fox broadcast it, and by the time it reaches everybody, millions of people have seen it. it's free money. >> does jesse watters have a point there? democratic senator chris murphy seems to think that yes, he does posting this on x, that it's true. and until the

left builds an infrastructure to confront this reality and stops acting like political communication is still just buying millions of tv and digital ads every two years we are cooked. joining us now, writer at large and host of the bulwark podcast, tim miller. and tim is also an msnbc. i'm having a day tim, political analyst and punchbowl news co-founder and msnbc political contributor jake sherman. i need some time off, fellas. i need a break. all right, jake, i'm going to start with you on democratic strategy on the hill. what are you seeing? i mean, you have chris murphy, who's been doing these two camera soliloquies about what the democrats need to do and what the republicans are doing right now where he thinks donald trump is going wrong. are you seeing a formed strategy starting to surface itself on the left? >> no. >> but let me make a few points here, which i think are critical to think about. number one. >> and i think tim would agree

with this. the infrastructure. >> on the right. >> that. jesse watters was describing, which is this. >> you know, it blows up on x, joe rogan takes it and then fox broadcasts it. that's not an. infrastructure that was built like either overnight. or even conscious consciously. >> right? i mean, this is something that had that started and flourished over time. this is not something. that you could. >> just stand up and have the influence that waters is indicating or murphy. >> would like to see. so i think but i do think murphy is right. i mean, there is a dearth of good communicators, communication infrastructure on the left. >> that is really damaging. >> now, on the other side. >> of the coin. there needs to be. >> some realities, i think, put in check. >> i mean. >> from at least what i'm. >> seeing and what i'm hearing up. >> here, which is republicans control the white house, the house and the senate. so while you. need to if you are a

democrat, there is an. urgency to fight back. there's no question about that. >> people need. >> to have in check their expectations for what democrats are able to do in this climate. from a practical point of view, right. they can't stop anything. they can. prolong inevitabilities, which is bills are going to pass, people are going to be confirmed. so they could do that, but there is nothing that they could do to stop. in reality, trump's agenda from becoming law. that opportunity came and went with the last election. now, tim, tell me why i'm 100%. >> wrong and an idiot. >> tim. >> go ahead. >> no. >> i mean, i. >> totally agree with everything. >> you said about that outside infrastructure, including the fact that joe rogan wasn't even part of it until he got co-opted. right? so it wasn't even explicitly partizan infrastructure. >> here is the thing that i get. >> i don't know if we disagree or not on this, jake, but so i. >> revise and extend, which. is the democrats have a bunch they. >> could do. >> on the hill to gum up the

works and to create a lot of noise about how they're doing it. and i think this is what democratic voters are demanding. i like what you're seeing out there. >> already, is people. >> bouncing around the room over this and wanting their democrats to, like, take a leadership mantle and fight. and what i remember as a republican kind of rolling my eyes at. >> to be honest, and. >> i wish i was wrong about it, was in 2016, republican voters liked trump because he thought it wasn't even really about every specific issue. there were some issues. he was on the right side of the base, some he was on the wrong side of the base, but they saw him as someone who was going to fight for them. democrats now want that. they want somebody that will fight for them tooth and nail. maybe that's doing what tommy tuberville did and holding up, you know, nominations being a jerk on the floor, blocking people from getting confirmed. and maybe i interviewed jared moskowitz for the podcast today, and i think he's aligned on this. it's the upcoming budget fight and saying, we're not going to bail the republicans out on this. you guys govern.

you're supposed to be in charge. you govern, and we're going to point and attack you and laugh when you fail. and i think that is what people are thirsting for. and that's like with a couple exceptions, like like chris murphy, like aoc. i feel like that's what democrats feel like they're not getting. >> i'm happy to take for you to respond to that. >> yeah. no, tim is absolutely right. on the last point, if joe biden had an unelected billionaire buddy of his. running around. cutting defense spending and things that republicans like, there would be zero chance zero that republicans would help pass a government funding bill. zero. and you're already hearing democrats say, well, listen, it's republicans responsibility to fund the government. but we. >> want to. >> be responsible and be at the table. i mean, it's shocking to me that democrats seem to be indicating that at least democratic leaders, that they're not going. >> to put. >> up a fight. this is the only opportunity they have in the

next 6 to 8 months where their votes are needed, where they. need to, where republicans need to come to democrats hat in hand for their participation after march 14th. democrats have zero leverage, zero until next year. so what tim is saying is right, make noise if you're a democrat. that's what a lot of democrats are saying. make noise and make our votes. worth something because they're worth nothing. if you're just going to roll over. >> make a statement, have a personality, make some noise, all that stuff. tim, i want to talk to you about the other thing you brought up in your podcast. this need for more macho bro energy within the democratic party. but we're out of time. we're going to put that on hold. we're going to talk about it another day. gentlemen, thank you very much. appreciate it. still ahead, what trumps federal hiring freeze means for federal hiring freeze means for the upcoming fire season? don't tide pods ultra oxi one ups the cleaning power of liquid.

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river gorge in the middle. >> of a. winter storm last week. >> but that's. >> exactly why u.s. forest service firefighting captain. >> ben mclean. >> wanted to bring us to. >> southwest washington. >> where. >> he fought the tunnel. fire fire. >> in the summer of 2023. >> this is a national. >> forest, though, is it? >> no it's not. >> why do you guys show up and respond here? >> well, we're a part. >> of our nation's promise. >> to the. >> public to respond to wildfire emergencies. >> that promise might be getting harder to keep as. >> president trump's hiring. >> freeze has thousands. >> of federal. seasonal firefighters. >> in limbo at a time. >> when onboarding for the next fire season. >> should have. >> already started. >> so by the. >> time. >> you made it here, this. >> house. >> was already up in flames. >> it was in. >> the process. >> of burning down. i have firefighters who. >> i. >> should be bringing on and. >> i'm not able to. >> you can't hire. >> people even if you want to right now. >> no, no i can't. >> why are you thinking about hiring. >> firefighters right now? look at this. >> yeah. this is the time. >> of year where we're training. we're preparing, we're getting

the qualifications. >> that we need to answer. >> the. >> call to. >> service when. >> the summer. >> does come. the u.s. forest service, the bureau of land. >> management, and the. >> national park service. >> employ more. >> than. >> 15,000 career and temporary firefighters. a crew from the forest service was credited. with saving this neighborhood during. >> the. >> eaton fire in. >> los angeles county. >> it was. >> a. >> federal crew like the one. >> mcclain's a part of, where any delay in. >> the lengthy onboarding. >> process can. >> affect the readiness of the team. >> is there a message. >> that you want. >> whether it's president trump. >> or other people in. >> this administration, to hear. >> and. >> to. >> understand about what you see as the urgency of this moment? >> i'd like them to ask the firefighters what. >> they. >> think. because we don't. >> we don't. >> have. >> any skin in. >> this game. >> other than. >> public service. >> over a dozen u.s. senators. >> have called for firefighters to. >> be exempted, pausing the hiring and onboarding of federal seasonal firefighters is simply irresponsible and dangerous. our nation's wildfire response system transcends politics because wildfire transcends politics, and it's. >> the right. >> thing to do. >> to bring. >> on firefighters and ensure

that the public is getting the service that they deserve and that they pay for. so even as the snow falls and alarm sounding about fires to come. jacob soboroff, nbc news. skamania county, washington. >> that's going to do it for me >> that's going to do it for me to time to press rewind with... neutrogena rapid wrinkle repair. it has derm-proven retinol... ...expertly formulated... ...to target skin cell turnover... ...and fights not one—but 5 signs of aging. with visible results... ...in just one week. neutrogena tears. >> it works. >> differently than drops. blink neutral tears is a once daily supplement clinically proven to hydrate from within, helping your eyes produce more. >> of their own. >> tears to promote lasting, continuous relief. you'll feel. day after day, try blink neutral tears. a different way to. tears. a different way to. support dry eye. when emergency strikes,

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