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by granger for the ones who get it done. >> it's good to be back with you. i'm alex witt in for chris jansing at this hour. mixed messages. ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky sitting down today with u.s. special envoy keith kellogg in kyiv after a tense public spat with donald trump. why the u.s. canceled the press conference scheduled for right after that meeting. and standing strong, vice president j.d. vance once again sending a powerful message to europe, this

time from cpac. plus declined. a three judge panel just rejected donald trump's bid to reinstate his controversial executive order limiting birthright citizenship. could the supreme court soon weigh in? also under fire, the trump administration's mass layoffs now hitting a program tasked with decreasing the risk of firefighters dying in the line of duty. our nbc news reporters are following all the latest developments for us. we are going to start with the push to end the war in ukraine. president zelensky meeting with u.s. envoy keith kellogg in kyiv while back home, national security adviser mike wallace was asked whether president trump has what it takes to stand up to russian president putin. >> if there's anybody in this world that can go toe to toe with putin, that could go toe to toe with she, that could go toe to toe with kim jong un, and we could keep going down the list. it's donald j. trump. he is the dealmaker in chief. there is no question that he is the

commander in chief. and i for one, and i think all americans and around the world should have no doubt about his ability to not only handle putin, but to handle the complexity of driving this war to an end. >> nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent, richard engel, is joining me now from inside ukraine. richard, welcome. so what do we know about this meeting in kyiv? and why did a press conference that was scheduled get canceled? >> well, i. >> think. >> it has. >> to do with. >> exactly the subject you were talking about. there has been a very public fight, mostly a one way fight from president trump attacking president zelensky over the last several days. president zelensky clearly annoyed president trump when he pushed back, and president zelenskyy said that it sounded like president trump was echoing russian propaganda when he said that his words was that president trump is caught in an information space or trapped in

an information bubble, depending on how you translate it. and president that that that annoyed president trump. president trump responded with even more attacks, calling him a dictator, saying that he hadn't been properly elected, that he's running through martial law, that he's been conning the united states out of money, billions of dollars over the years. today, president trump's envoy, retired general keith kellogg, came to ukraine and there was a possibility that this this fight was going to overshadow that visit. so although reporters were gathered in the room, prepared for a joint press conference, at the very end, a ukrainian official came out and said, no, at the american's request, there will be no press conference, just some videos of the handshake that you're seeing now and a limited video from inside the meeting. but and i think this is significant. a short while ago, president zelenskyy put out on x or tweet if you still remember it that way, a statement. and it was very different. it was very

conciliatory. and i think it's worth reading in part because it's clearly president zelenskyy in a controlled format, not receiving questions from from the free press, just putting out a statement, trying to make amends, trying to give president trump something, to tell president trump a little bit of what he wants to hear. and the statement says, i had a productive meeting with general keith kellogg, a good discussion, many important details. i am grateful to the united states for all of the assistance and bipartisan support for ukraine and the ukrainian people. it is important for us and for the entire free world that that american strength is felt. and it's important that he was expressing appreciation because you just played a clip a short while ago from the national security adviser. and one of the things he said was that president zelensky is not appreciative enough. and then he went on to reference this deal, this very elusive deal that president trump clearly wants ukraine to sign, handing over

mineral rights, which president zelensky refused to sign. to many, it looked like extortion that president trump was saying to president zelensky and to the ukrainian people, hand over your mineral rights or you will not get u.s. military support. and president zelensky in this statement said that they are interested, that he is interested in pursuing economic relationships tied to security guarantees with the united states. so he's not closing the door entirely on some sort of mineral deal. but he didn't accept the one that president trump laid out. >> yeah, so there's still room for negotiation. but we do know that, zelensky said, just in the last couple of days that were the united states to pull out of supporting ukraine, they didn't think they would have a possibility of winning this war. so you understand the dynamic at the root of all of this. but richard engel, thank you so much for giving us all those details, particularly of what zelenskyy has just recently said. so at today's cpac, the conservative

political action conference, vice president j.d. vance doubled down on his scathing speech in munich last week, chastising european leaders. nbc's melanie zanona is joining us from that conference in maryland. melanie, welcome to you. so vance got a standing ovation, in fact, from that crowd. and he mentioned his munich speech. it's a speech that rattled our allies across europe. what specifically did we hear from him today? >> yeah. vice president vance is controversial. remarks during the munich security conference were certainly top of mind here today at the conservative political action committee. he is fresh off of that overseas trip, his first overseas trip that he's taken since he's become vice president. and while he was in munich, he delivered a blistering attack on our european allies, which really shook a lot of european nations. and he also encouraged germany to embrace far right political parties. but here at cpac, those words were met with loud cheers and a standing ovation, and vance himself doubled down on his critiques of our european

allies. take a listen. >> you do not have shared values. if you're jailing people for saying we should close down our border. you don't have shared values if you cancel elections because you don't like the result. and that happened in romania. you don't have you do not have shared values. if you're so afraid of your own people that you silence them and shut them up. so let's have shared values. let's defend democracy. let's have free expression, not just in the united states, but all over the western world. that is the path to strong alliances in europe. >> he said. >> and alex, i think it's worth reminding people that this conference, this conservative political action committee conference, used to be a gathering of the entire republican party from all corners of the gop. but in recent years, it has become completely and solely aligned with donald trump and the maga movement. and i think that was really on full display when you heard vance talking about foreign policy, which has seen a

massive shift under donald trump. and so for vance, he's really been at the forefront of this isolationist pro america, america first isolationist view in the foreign policy space. and for him, today was an opportunity to further ingratiate himself, ingratiate himself with conservatives, and present himself as the next standard bearer of the maga movement. alex. >> okay, melanie zanona, thank you so much from maryland and cpac. and right now, as mr. lankford, aye. mr. kaine, no. mr. warnock, no. ms. hirono, no. in previous controversial senate

nominations confirmation hearings. rather, senator mitch mcconnell of kentucky has just voted yes. mr. booker, no. mrs. a supreme court showdown. let's go to nbc's julia ainsley, who's following this for us. julia, what have we learned about this? what comes next in this battle around the 14th amendment to the constitution? >> well. >> alex. >> look. >> as soon as the president signed this executive order the night he was inaugurated, we knew this would potentially go to the supreme court. now it's looking like that could come. even faster, because what happened in the ninth. >> circuit, which is an appellate court. >> traditionally the. >> more liberal of those in the country. >> they have said that they will not. reinstate that. >> executive order that. >> would ban birthright citizenship for. >> anyone born who is does not have at least.

>> one parent who is in. >> the united states, either. >> as. a u.s. citizen or. >> as a legal permanent resident. that even includes if your parents are here temporarily on a visa, you wouldn't have birthright citizenship. we know at the district level that's been blocked many times, including in seattle. that particular judge's decision was appealed to the ninth circuit. they are saying they will not reinstate it, that they are going to uphold what that seattle judge said. but what that leaves the door open for is an. emergency appeal from the trump administration to the supreme court. so if they do that, we could be hearing this argument as soon as this season, perhaps in june, we'll start to see how the trump administration will try to argue that the 14th amendment still leaves room for this idea that citizenship in the united states should not be granted by birthright. and alex again, it will likely come down to these words subject to the jurisdiction thereof. that's the language of the 14th amendment that says anyone born on this soil, or subject to the jurisdiction thereof, is an american citizen. the trump

administration trying to argue that those born to people who are not legally in the united states are not subject to the jurisdiction thereof, and therefore should not be given citizenship. so something that trump is not getting any favors for so far, either at the district or appellate court level. and we'll see how that plays out at the supreme court. alex. >> okay. julia ainsley, thank you so much. we'll be watching closely for that development. meantime, members of a critical firefighter safety team are now among the federal workers that have been let go by president trump. nbc's jonathan allen is following this story for us. jonathan, welcome. i understand you spoke with some of those firefighters who were fired. what did they first of all do on the job? and how did they find out that they were out of a job? >> yeah, that's right. alex. i did speak to some of the retired firefighters who work in the firefighter fatality investigation and prevention program. or did. there were five people in that unit. three of them were fired over the weekend. they found out with termination notices from the department of health and human

services that said, number one, they were eligible for being fired because they had worked in this unit for, you know, for not enough time, which was two years to be through a probationary period. and second, they were told that they had not performed adequately in their jobs. both of the firefighters, former firefighters i spoke to who did these investigations, which are designed to study firefighter fatalities and prevent them in the future. both of them said that they had received exemplary performance reviews, including some awards and being nominated for awards. one of the firefighters i spoke to, patrick, i'm sorry, forgetting name at the moment was saying basically he didn't think that president trump or bobby kennedy junior, the head of hhs, had had even knew that this unit existed. so they basically fear that the unit is going to go away, that it won't have enough people to do investigations of deaths. and of course, there was

another program where other people were fired. that is the national firefighter cancer registry, which was signed into law by president trump during his first term. so there is some confusion among these firefighters, former firefighters and others in their community as to whether trump president trump stands up for firefighters, given how much he has spent, how much time and energy he spent talking about his his commitment to first responders, including firefighters. >> yeah, and in fact, these investigations are done, as you well know, jonathan, to try to understand what happened, learn lessons from them and prevent these firefighter deaths from happening again. so that is a critical component of fire safety. thank you so much. in 90s, we are live on capitol hill for the confirmation vote for mrs. shaheen, no. one. >> in network coverage and

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enemies. joining us now is nbc sahil kapoor reporting on capitol hill, and frank figliuzzi, former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi and an msnbc senior national security analyst. also, brendan buck, former aide to house speaker paul ryan and john boehner and an msnbc political analyst. welcome to all of you. so, hill, right now, where is the count? where does the vote stand? >> hey, alex, will the senate vote on the nomination of kash patel to be fbi director is still open, and it's looking like this is going to be a close one to the end, because we now have two republicans who have come out against kash patel. the first is susan collins, who made her opposition known earlier today. she said in a statement that she's not convinced mr. patel is the a political nominee that the fbi needs right now. she went on to say that his past four years have been characterized by high profile and aggressive political activity. that's according to her statement. she went on to say mr. patel has made numerous politically charged statements in his book and elsewhere, discrediting the work of the fbi, the very institution he has

been nominated to lead, unquote. now, just in the last few minutes, she has been joined by senator lisa murkowski, the moderate from alaska, who put out a statement saying that she, too is voting no on kash patel in this vote. she says her reservations with mr. patel stem from his own prior political activities and how they may influence his leadership. the fbi must be focused on crime and corruption, she argues, not focused on settling political scores. now, despite that, alex, republicans have 53 senate votes, which means they're going to need at least two more to vote no on kash patel in order to sink his nomination. at this point, we don't see those two, so he is still on track to be confirmed. at this point, i think throughout this process, we've we've seen two versions of kash patel. one is the pro-trump firebrand, you know, who went on radio shows in recent years, backed the idea of law enforcement going after trump's critics, his perceived political enemies. he wrote a book about his grievances with senator dick

durbin, the top democrat on the committee said was essentially an enemies list. then we saw a different kash patel at the hearing, a more cookie cutter version. he said he wants to get politics out of the fbi. he's just interested in enforcing the law, equally applying the law, and that he wants to clean up the fbi. senate republicans, for the most part, it's clear, have embraced the second version. they continue to believe that the fbi investigations into trump in recent years were politicized. and they and they argue that he will do the job of improving and cleaning up the fbi. democrats insist that patel has shown his true colors in recent years, when he went on those shows to say what he what he really believes. and they argue that if republicans confirm him now for this role for the next ten years, that they'll live to regret it. alex. >> yeah. well, to your point, those two again, murkowski and collins having voted no against him, it may be somewhat surprising that mitch mcconnell voted yes to support him. those were the three that we were keeping a very close eye on with your assistance, sahil. so thank you for that. so, brendan, you heard republican senator susan collins announcing ahead of the vote her stance against patel.

and then in another part of her statement, she wrote, mr. patel's recent political profile undermines his ability to serve in the apolitical role of director of the fbi. is it unusual that this isn't resonating more with her colleagues? >> well, i wouldn't say it's unusual. >> but she makes a, i. >> think, a very astute point. if the idea is that you want to make the fbi apolitical, it's hard to pick a more political person to take the job. someone who has, as you noted, been a diehard champion of, of donald trump. >> for, for a. >> long time. and even going back before, you know, he was sort of aligned on the outside with, with donald trump. look, it's not surprising that that republican senators are not persuaded by this, though. and i think it's an important reason. the things that kash patel has said, and i think truly believes that there is a deep state that was out to get donald trump. and

january 6th was all about, you know, that that was a political, you know, the election was stolen from him and this was all politics. those are all standard fare things that republican senators are forced to say now, when they go back to their states and they're talking to their constituents now, they'll say with a bit of a wink and a nod and yeah, yeah, the deep state. kash patel truly believes it. but the point is, you can't be against kash patel for believing in a deep state. if you also have been talking about the fact that there is a deep state in the federal government. so none of the things that he has said publicly that i think get a lot of people upset are all that different than what most republican senators basically say anytime they're back home in their in their states. >> and you mentioned the deep state. and i have a quote. this is something that he said on a podcast. he said on day one, i would shut down the fbi hoover building and reopen it the next day as a museum of the deep state. so given all of this, the tenor of everything, frank, now that it is edging toward

reality, what could a kash patel led fbi look like? >> yeah. >> that's the. >> big question. how bad is it going to get? because it's clear to everyone that there will be major changes and reforms at the fbi. the only question is how. bad is it going to get? everybody is all about reforming. i'm i'm about reforming, you know, huge bureaucracies and pivoting and changing and reassessing. that's that's that's characterized my 25 years at the fbi. the biggest strategic change, of course, was after the terror attacks of nine over 11, when the fbi fully dived into the intelligence community and became an agency. that's that's beyond investigation, but rather predicting bad things before they happen. and this concerns me because, look, there's every indication so far based on what pam bondi has done and acting. dag emile bove has done, demanding the list of agents who worked on january 6th, dropping corruption cases like eric adams that you know now has gone to court because trump wants them

dropped. and of course, we understand patel will work for bondi, bondi and beauvais. and so if he's going to keep his job and remain loyal to trump, he's going to have to fall into line and continue to close down cases that trump doesn't like and open cases that trump wants open. we've already seen bondi destroy dismantle the foreign influence task force at the fbi that keeps foreign adversaries out of our elections. that's gone. so the question is, what is the fbi not going to work anymore? it's not about i know he wants to work violent crime. he's he's already said fbi agents are cops. they should be working rapes and murders. by the way, those are not federal. those aren't federal violations. the question is what? they're not going to work. and that's what bothers me. >> yeah. understandably so. so, brendan, before the vote, which is underway, and again, we're keeping an eye on it there on the screen for all of you. senate judiciary democrats made something of a last stand. it

was outside the fbi headquarters today. they were speaking out against patel's nomination. take a listen to some of what was said. >> before even being confirmed as fbi director. mr. patel was already seeking retribution on behalf of president trump. we verified through multiple whistleblowers inside this building and beyond, the new administration is cleansing the ranks of the fbi. >> he is a yes. >> man for president trump, already undermining the critical bureau. he wants to lead. >> kash patel mark, my words will cause evil in this building behind us. and republicans who vote for him. will rue that day. >> so what do you make of republicans being unfazed, at least publicly, by these alleged red flags? or are some of them privately concerned, too? what are you hearing? >> i certainly think there are some of them who are who are privately concerned, but i don't

think they're going to be persuaded by arguments like that. look, we have a complete lack of trust in institutions in this country, and it's in no small part because of people like kash patel and donald trump who have made attacks on institutions. but the thing that the democrats are struggling with right now is they have this full throated defense of institutions when people just don't believe in them. people want reform in places. and so when they hear that kash patel is going to come in and clean up the fbi, that sounds good on its face. now, as frank has just discussed, ultimately that's going to come down to what does he actually do? and i don't think it's going to be a matter of him needing to get in line with anybody. if i know anything about kash patel, he's going to be the one instigating, making changes and coming up with things that he wants to be doing differently. and so, you know, look, he's going to be confirmed at this point. it's his legacy. and what democrats have to work with will ultimately come down to. what kind of stuff does he get into? what does the fbi stand for going forward? but i don't think just a wholesale defense of institutions is really the political path forward for democrats.

>> yeah. what about personnel, frank? because patel would take over the bureau at a time when several senior fbi officials have been forced out. doj has demanded the names of agents who worked on january 6th cases. are you hearing any concerns from those that are still inside the bureau about what comes next? >> oh, yeah. yeah. the concern now is, you know, yes, the top layer of executives at headquarters is gone. but now the field offices are really concerned. is it now a policy that if you worked a january 6th case, if you work at any case that donald trump took offense at, didn't agree with. are you out the door and what does that mean for the next case you need to open against a violent extremist group militia? how about a corrupt republican politician in your town? is that case going to get opened? how about a russian counterintelligence investigation? is the us attorney that you have to partner with in your district to get a case prosecuted, appointed by trump now? right. we fired all the u.s. attorneys. is he going to accept your proposal

for a new case when trump doesn't like it? that's the concern in the field, and the idea that we now may fire all probationary agents. you're on probation for two years in the fbi. you wipe out hundreds, if not thousands of agents that represent the future of the bureau. >> and i just want to have our director, if we can put up that count the tally right there as we're trying to get to the very end, we're very close. everybody okay to the vote. we're going to stay the watching it. he has been confirmed. this has just happened. everyone. it is not a surprise. we figured this would happen. it would have taken a number of republicans to flip away from the party and not vote on a partizan level, as we had expected them to do. we did get that from lisa murkowski and susan collins, but it would seem every other republican has voted for kash patel, and every democrat has voted against him.

with the final tally there 51 to 49. so there you have it. it is a done deal and there will be consequences of this as far as the democrats are concerned. and republicans will be happy that they are continuing with president trump's agenda in confirmation of his appointees, both to cabinet and high level positions in the government. i will thank you right now. kapoor. frank figliuzzi and brendan buck. so coming up, a purge of generals at the pentagon, what nbc news has learned about the trump administration's next potential round of mass layoffs. stay close everyone. >> oh, i hate these things. >> that's one. >> of the great things about consumer cellular. they're 100% us based. customer service is also 100% human. you don't have. >> to o. >> to o. >> you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean. not spreadsheets... you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do.

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powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business. your entire first order at fabletics. as a new vip member. >> nbc news has learned that defense secretary pete hegseth is considering firing a slate of military generals and flag officers at the pentagon as early as this week, according to sources familiar with the matter. and all of this, as those employees have been seen visiting the pentagon, holding meetings, in fact, with defense officials. nbc's courtney kube has the reporting for us from the pentagon. so, courtney, take it away. i'm curious what you can tell us about who might be on the list and how this could all play out. >> yeah. so. >> far, what we're hearing. >> about this list is they are people who have very specific affiliations. >> or jobs that. >> they've been. again assigned to. >> do as. >> general and flag officers in the united states military. so we're hearing that this could involve people or affect people who had close ties to the former secretary of defense, lloyd austin, people who have worked

specifically on diversity, inclusion and equity dei initiatives again assigned to work on those initiatives, or people who may just be seen as having opinions or policy views that are counter to president donald trump or the secretary of defense, pete hegseth. now, we're not naming any of the any of these general or flag officers who could be impacted here, but this is something that members of congress have now been told about. we've been hearing these sorts of rumors for a while. but, alex, the reason that we're reporting on it now is that according to the officials who are familiar with it, it seems as if it is much more likely and more imminent than it has been recently. >> okay, well, we'll keep a close eye with your help on all that, courtney. thank you. from the pentagon. meantime, coming up, what a judge just decided about who can take the stand in the trial of the suspect in the deadly highland park mass deadly highland park mass shooting? you're watching msnbc. before you go to extremes to fix sagging and wrinkles with expensive injections. try this. olay regenerist.

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survivors of a deadly 4th of july parade shooting will be allowed to attend the trial of robert crimo the third. that's the man suspected of opening fire on a crowd, killing seven people at the 2022 highland park parade. so prosecutors say they expect to call a majority of the victims as witnesses in the trial, arguing that illinois law allows victims to attend a trial. they are a part of, saying it's very important for

them to have this cathartic experience of watching the whole trial. that trial is set to begin on monday. joining me now here in the studio is criminal defense attorney and former manhattan prosecutor and former federal prosecutor duncan levin. so, duncan, i'm glad to have you here. i know your defense attorney. i'm going to get a defense question in just a moment. but as a former prosecutor, prosecutors saying, all right, we need for the witnesses to be here to listen to testify. how does that impact the trial? when you place potential victims inside of a courtroom? they're going to be witnesses. are they all first of all right there? are they in maybe a side room listening? some sort of an overflow room? how will that work? >> well, they're. >> going to be a lot. >> of people here because the defendant. >> in this. >> well, the defendant in this case made that happen himself because he killed seven people, allegedly. and then he also allegedly shot an additional 48 people. and the judge's ruling today allows them to come into the courtroom not just alone,

but with their lawyers and a support person. and so you're talking about a lot of people. presumably they'll be in the courtroom, and the prosecutors know that because they know the jurors are watching everybody, they're watching victims there. and they're two different kinds of victims. there are victims who are victims, and they're victims who are testifying victims who are going to be put on the stand. and from our understanding, the prosecution is going to put a lot of these people up on the stand to testify about what they saw that day. and that's the distinction here, because under illinois law, they're all allowed to be part of the court proceedings and watch it. but if they're if they're testifying victims, the law is a little bit different. and the judge has to make a determination about whether them, having watched, watching all the proceedings, is going to materially change their testimony. >> so as a defense attorney, then how do you incorporate that to your defense to try to protect your client? >> well, as a defense attorney, what you want to say is that we need to ensure a fair trial, even for people who are the most hated in society, who society

would love to just lock away right away without any due process. this is not really about the, you know, emotional catharsis of victims. this is about a fair trial for the defendant. and by having a lot of people in the courtroom who are going to be testifying, number one, this could change the outcome of their testimony because they're listening to what other people say, and they might try to change their testimony to match it. and also, we it's unfair to the defendant to have a lot of people sitting there, clearly very emotional about what's going on. >> so last year, the suspect, robert crimo, he rejected a plea deal in court. and this was while the victims were there. they watched him do this. and one of the attorneys for some of the victims families said that telling a reporter this was this was a calculated, mean effort on his part to try to continue all the suffering that these families are going through. so is this then different, this aspect of the trial? i mean,

that was a plea deal. now we're going to the actual trial. >> and it wasn't the first time that it happened because also he was supposed to go to trial about a year before that, and he fired his defense attorney and decided to do a pro se by himself. and then as the date approached, he decided he would rehire the attorney. so he's been obviously trying to game the system a little bit as well. and i think that this is not anything that's in his control. this is a different issue because this is going to trial now. and the judge has been very clear with him that at this point, this trial is going forward, whether he shows up or doesn't show up. and his sentencing, if he's convicted, is going forward, regardless of whether he shows up or not. so at this point, the judge is really taking a lot of that out of his hands and said this, this trial is moving forward whether you like it or not. >> and it starts on monday. duncan levin, thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks, alex. >> coming up on msnbc, from real estate mogul to monarch, reaction to the president's reaction to the president's royal rhet what's up, you seem kinda sluggish today. things aren't really movin'.

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crown on a time magazine cover with the famous new york city skyline behind him. the president's rhetoric roiling new york governor kathy hochul, sparking a strong rebuke. i'm here to say. >> york hasn't. >> labored under a king in over 250 years. >> we are not. >> we sure as hell are not going to start now. i want to bring in msnbc host and associate editor of the washington post, jonathan capehart. he is a pulitzer prize winning journalist, by the way, for all of you to know that. also here with us, former new york city mayor bill de blasio. it's good to see you, mr. mayor. you too, jonathan, there in d.c. so, mayor, the governor posted on x, quote. here it is. we won't let trump use new yorkers as roadkill on his revenge tour. can she take on the president over this? i'm curious kind of the options that she would have, both in terms of city and state

to her. >> first thing. >> to say, alex, is he ain't. >> no king around here. >> it's really important. >> to. >> remember that. >> this city rejected. >> this man who was born here, grew up here, came to fame here, rejected soundly in two elections by new yorkers. and now, thinking he can dictate how we run. our lives, our roads, our subways, congestion pricing is all about saving the subways. let's be clear, the lifeblood of new york city. kathy hochul, i think, can do a lot to fight back. one of the things i learned as mayor, working for four years during the trump administration is the constitution actually gives a lot of power to states and, by extension, even localities to fight back against arbitrary federal actions. because the constitution was built by a group of founders who didn't want a totally strong national government, or obviously did not want a king or an all powerful president. so they put lots of trap doors and lots of checks and balances. kathy hochul got this policy approved by the

federal government. i don't think it's so easy for donald trump to unapprove it. >> but i'm curious about pulling the switch. is she the one that would have to do pulling the lever, if you will, to stop it? or could it be stopped by the federal government, despite the laws that are in place that could potentially stop them from doing so? >> well, clearly i'm not a lawyer, but i can say with assurance that she has a very strong legal case. this policy was voted on by the state legislature of new york, representing the people of new york state. it has been law for years, finally implemented recently. it got full federal approval. it went through all the environmental reviews, tons of lawsuits. it's already run the race and won. so now how does the federal government undo a previous approval? i suspect a lot of courts would say you can't do that after something was voted on by a sovereign state and passed all other tests. so i think she's in a very strong legal position. >> okay. jonathan, time magazine pointed out this king talk is not entirely new. here's the

quote. some trump defenders claim the posts are harmless trolling, a reference flown over liberals heads. i'm going to be the king of new york real estate, trump told his peers when he was in college. a classmate recalled that to the boston globe back in 2018, and he used to think that he was the king of new york. former trump organization executive barbara res told the new york daily news back in 2021 that the king of new york is back to reclaim the city that he built. donald trump junior announced that last year, when his father held that rally at madison square garden, and we know he's quite impressed by the british monarchy that persists. so at this time, when he's running a whole country, why still zoom in here on new york? >> because he's he's petulant. i'll just leave it there. i almost said a few more words. >> but he's petulant. >> he's bent on. >> retribution, remember? yeah. >> he grew. >> up in new york and made his name in new york, but he always

had the queens born builder, always had his nose pressed up against the glass. that is the high society in in elite of manhattan. and for someone born. and raised in queens. manhattan is new york city. >> you make. >> it in manhattan. you are the you are the king of new york. fine. that's great. when you're a real estate tycoon, that's fine when you're calling in secretly to page six, trying to, you know, get your name out there in the in the gossip pages. but when you are president of the united states and you run the campaign that you ran, one where you are pushing, you promised to push the limits of presidential power. and now that you. >> are in the. >> office, you have shown since day one that you are willing to blow past the guardrails and really push the limits of presidential power, that when you go and even if it's ha ha funny, you're going to proclaim yourself a king. don't be surprised if people don't take don't think that you're trolling

is funny, or don't think that you're joking. and also, i'll point out one other thing, alex. it's curious that this comes, i think, at least a week after the real time magazine put elon musk behind the resolute desk. >> yeah, that's a very good point. but i mean, can i can you just tell me how it's being read there in washington? i mean, joking or not? >> i do not know how it's going over specifically in washington, but i can tell you this, that among among democrats and those who are concerned about how the president is pushing the limits of presidential power here, that is just one more piece of evidence, even if he is trolling, even if he's trying to, you know, poke the libs, it's just one more piece of evidence that he couldn't care less about the constitution and the limits on his power that the constitution puts on him. >> okay. mayor, i want to switch

gears here because while we've been broadcasting, we found out from a source with direct knowledge telling nbc news that governor kathy hochul, in just about an hour or so from now, is going to make her official announcement that she does not intend to remove mayor eric adams from his post leading this city right now, however, that she will impose some strict guardrails on his administration. is that the right call? >> i think realistically, it is. the first of all, there's a very strong question about what rises to the level of removal. and i would say when anyone is elected by the people to serve, it should be a very high bar for a governor to remove them. but second, it's a very lengthy, complicated process that literally has never been utilized. fdr, as governor of new york attempted to invoke it, didn't need to in the end. so it's never been done. we do know

it's complex. we do know it's subject to legal challenge thereafter. so i think the governor on one level, did a very sort of smart, practical thing, said that's going to be its own morass, potentially. but we do need to give the public greater confidence because there's a lot of deep concern right now, especially since last friday. and i think the whole pivot point here, sadly, was eric adams going on fox and friends with homan and leaving the impression that he was captive. i wish he, for his own sake in new york city's sake, had never done that. but i think hochul now is applying additional measures in a pretty smart way. >> yeah, absolutely. and the fact is that the people of new york city elected him. there will be another election in november, and they can. >> do so in four months. >> there you go. jonathan capehart, bill de blasio, gentlemen, thank you both so much. and be sure to catch the saturday and sunday show with jonathan capehart. it's weekends at 6 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. that does it for this hour. christina ruffini picks up hour. christina ruffini picks up our coverage

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