>> and maria. >> already asked for a budget reminder. >> smart. >> got it, got it. >> boss. >> you got this. >> good to be with you this afternoon. i'm christina. >> ruffini, in for katy tur. the first month of president trump's administration has marked a. seismic shift here. >> in washington and sent. >> tremors through america's european allies. >> as trump appears to not only be abandoning the u.s. position on ukraine, but. >> also taking. >> personal jabs at its leader. president vladimir zelensky. >> a dictator without elections. zelensky better move fast or he's not going to have a country left. got to move, got to move fast. i love ukraine, but zelensky has done a terrible job. his country is shattered and millions and millions of people have unnecessarily died. >> okay, we want to do a quick fact check here. zelensky is, in fact not a dictator. i was. actually in ukraine monitoring. >> the election. >> when zelensky ran. and physically i took this photo you

see on your screen, physically watched them count the votes at different polling stations. zelensky won overwhelmingly. that's his pile there on the right. and at the time was thought of as a very trumpian figure, right, anti-establishment, tv star turned politician who later found himself thrust on the international stage after the russian invasion. but this anti zelensky rhetoric coming from the white house is already being echoed on capitol hill. the us also canceled a joint press conference planned between president zelensky and u.s. special envoy to ukraine keith kellogg, after their meeting earlier today in kyiv. now, according to new behind the scenes reporting from nbc news, the tensions between trump and zelensky have been simmering for at least a week before fully erupting into public view. the turning point? a rejected proposal for ukraine's precious minerals and defense secretary pete hegseth, declaring to nato allies last week that ukraine joining the alliance was a

nonstarter and that the country might have to relinquish territory in any negotiations with russia. remarks. he later walked back saying instead, quote, all options are on the table. now, sources say hegseth privately told his ukrainian counterparts that the trump administration could also draw down u.s. forces. all right. joining us now to unpack all of this. we've got nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez from kharkiv. nbc news foreign correspondent richard engel, former deputy assistant secretary of state and president of washington strategy group joel rubin and washington post global security analyst josh rogan. gabe, i want to start with you, because national security advisor mike wallace was just in the briefing room, and he was asked repeatedly about these accusations president trump has leveled at zelenskyy. how did he respond either? >> christina. well, not surprisingly, with a lot of talking points, he reiterated that president trump wants to see this war end and that the war would have never started if president trump was, in fact, in the oval office. but he did not answer directly when he was

asked whether president trump considered president putin to be a dictator like he is called president zelensky. here's what national security advisor mike wallace did say. >> there needs to be a deep appreciation for what the american people, what the american taxpayer. what president trump did in his first term and what we've done since. so some of the rhetoric coming out of kyiv, frankly, and, and insults to president trump were unacceptable. >> zelensky publicly. >> rejected this. deal about the. >> rare earth minerals. where does that stand? >> well, we're going to continue to have he needs to come back to the table, and we're going to continue to have discussions about where that deal is going. >> christina, that deal about the rare earth minerals that was mentioned in that question. president zelensky still has not signed a document presented to him by the treasury secretary, handing over half of ukraine's rare earth minerals in exchange for u.s. aid. so that still

remains up in the air. but mike waltz did say that there continues to be frustration between the trump administration and what president zelensky has been saying. christina. >> all right. gabe gutierrez, thank you so much. richard. i want to ask you about that exact issue, because we have the europeans starting to talk a lot more seriously about seizing russian assets to help pay for the war, but the u.s. doesn't really have that option. and the trump administration instead has kind of zoned in on cutting this deal, some sort of deal for ukraine's minerals. here's what they said yesterday. >> we told them that the deal is will do something for the rare earth and some oil. et cetera. et cetera. and that will be all right. and they agreed to it more or less. and then scott bassett actually went there and was treated rather rudely, because essentially they told him no. >> can you resurrect. >> that deal? >> is there anything that you can. >> do to resurrect it? of course, you know, we'll see what happens, but i'm going to

resurrect it or things are not going to make him too happy. >> richard, what has the response been from ukrainian officials? is a resurrection in the offing and, you know, with u.s. support on the line, is this agreement likely to go anywhere? >> so you talked earlier about president zelensky when he was first elected. and if you remember, president zelensky, one of his first interactions, one of his first major public interactions was with president trump in his first term. and that phone call that was heard around the world that he was later impeached for, in which president trump appeared to be asking for information about the biden family, specifically about hunter biden and burisma in exchange for military aid. people at the time said president trump was trying to extort an ally, demanding something in exchange for services that that ally needed, specifically military aid to defend against russia. well, here we are several years later,

and ukraine is in a much more vulnerable position. russian troops occupy about 20% of this country russia, russia. russian troops are not far away from where i'm standing right now. they are attacking the city and eastern and southern ukraine on a constant basis. they are reinforced with weapons from iran. they are reinforced with soldiers from north korea. and now you see president trump saying, unless you hand over mineral rights and oil and some other things, which he didn't specify, then there's going to be problems. and ukrainians here feel that is being extorted. and i think that's the way many people in europe saw it as well, that the united states is using its leverage to extract payment from a country that has no other choice, and that is making many american allies in europe very nervous watching this conflict and is making many, many ukrainians very nervous. we spoke to ukrainians today who don't understand why this is happening, who don't understand why they're suddenly being blamed for the fact that russia

invaded this country three years ago, why it's suddenly their fault, and why they feel like they're being victimized by both their their enemies and their biggest backer. >> all right. richard engel in kharkiv, thank you so much for joining us. joel, i want to turn to you now because, you know, we've got trump blaming blaming ukraine for getting invaded, essentially. you know, they're blaming the country that was invaded. but not all republicans are on board. we have actually heard some pushback. i think we've got some sound we're going to show you. >> make no mistake about it, that invasion was the responsibility of one human being on the face of this planet. it was vladimir putin. >> it is quite. >> clear who started the war. >> it was absolutely. >> russia at putin's directive. >> i don't. >> think that there should be. >> any confusion. >> with that. >> putin is a gangster. >> he's a gangster with. >> a black heart. >> and as i've said in another context. >> i wouldn't. >> trust this guy. like i trust

gas. >> stations, sushi. >> i mean, leave it to senator kennedy. he always comes up with a sound bite. but look, this is a serious issue. and we've got we've also got senate majority leader john thune saying when it comes to what trump is trying to do, let him cook. we've got that sound to. >> right now. you got. >> to give him some space. >> honestly. >> this is something this war has ground on now. for three years there's been a lot of a lot of cost, a lot of death, a lot of injury associated with it. and i think it's in everybody's best interest. ukraine, russia, europe, the united states, if they can bring about a peaceful conclusion to the war. and so that's what this is about right now. all right. >> what's your take? >> well, so much for the republican. >> backbone in defense of ukraine. look may. >> may. those statements that we. >> saw. >> from random members. important members nonetheless become contagious. >> and may the white house. >> hear that. >> because what. >> is happening right now is. >> that. >> russia and the united states are sandwiching ukraine. we are

watching in real time the combination of vladimir putin and donald trump deciding how to divide up ukraine. and this is very dangerous. this is reminiscent of 1938, when russia and germany joined to divide up poland. and then they argued there was going to be stability and peace in europe. and of course, we know that was the precursor to a major war. so hopefully the white house is understanding. somebody in there is understanding that what they are setting up is no peace. they are not setting up a negotiation. they are gaslighting the american people. and clearly, our allies in europe are deeply concerned that not only will ukraine be at risk, further risk, but they themselves as well. >> josh rogan, i want to go to you because you and i were at the munich security conference together last week, and what i was hearing from people was that they weren't so concerned that europeans were divided on what to do with ukraine. they were more concerned that europeans were going to divide themselves over how to deal with the white house, and that would have a

knock on effect on the alliance to support ukraine. what's your take on that? and, you know, the nato summit is coming up in just a few months. what is that even going to look like? >> right. >> we were there. >> we heard president zelenskyy. address the assembled european officials and tell them that we can no longer depend on the united states and that europe has to get together and unify, not just for europe sake. >> but for ukraine's sake. >> as well. >> the next. >> day after the conference, the european leaders met and achieved zero unity. >> so the prospects of. european unity. >> on ukraine or on the united states or anything. >> else are. >> slim to none. given that reality. >> the best that. >> the europeans can really hope for is to position themselves where they don't end up. like zelensky on the wrong side of trump. because the mistake, if you want to call it this, that zelensky made, was he he made trump angry and trump thinks he insulted him. and that's how our foreign policy is run. now, if you run afoul of trump, your whole country can be sent

sacrificed. and so the europeans have to look out for themselves and they're going to have a tough a lot of trouble doing that. and that. leaves ukraine in the worst of all positions. they can't agree to the extortion. they can't give up their mineral rights that they're going to need to feed their people if and when the war is over, to pay back us before they feed their own people and reconstruct their country doesn't make any sense, and they certainly can't do it in exchange for nothing. what they need is security guarantees, and what they need is to be at the table during the negotiations over their own future. and the main thing that trump and a lot of elon musk and a lot of people get wrong about zelensky is that they think he's the problem. they think that if apparently they think that if they get rid of zelensky, that the ukrainian people will fall in line with their scheme. that's wrong. zelensky, you know, elections or no elections, represents what the ukrainian people want. and what the ukrainian people want is to not live on their knees. they're not going to surrender to putin so that trump can get a headline, and they're not going to surrender to putin on terms that are anything other than

something that will ensure that they stop getting killed. and that's not the way that it's looking. so, you know, trump and elon can attack zelensky all they want. in the end, the ukrainian people will determine their own fate one way or the other, with or without our help. >> jill, i want to ask you as well, you know, the new york times has this report out that the kremlin has really zeroed in on trump's desire to make a profit. talk to us. i mean, that's always a part of foreign policy, but usually that's the quiet part. leaders don't say out loud, right, when that is openly the objective here. can you talk about what impact that could have on not only u.s. policy, but on how europeans view u.s. policy? >> well, one has to ask what kind of profit a personal profit? is it a profit for the united states? and what would that profit be anyways? would it be just the extractive resources, the oil resources that russia has? they don't really produce much of value beyond oil. one of the key questions here, christina, then, is, is the united states, are we going to require ukraine to cover not just our costs, but

potentially start to pay down our deficits, our debts? why are we not asking russia to pay those bills? >> is this a for profit kind of. >> operation, a for profit venture? and this this is a theory of government that is extremely different from anything we've had in the history of the united states. we are not a government that tries to get a bottom line profit, firing all of our staff and somehow giving tax cuts to billionaires and extorting countries abroad to fill up our coffers. that's an imperialist america that does not exist, that has not existed. certainly you can go back over two centuries and britain and france and spain, that's how they got wealthy. well, that's not the united states of america, and that's a deeply distressing sign if that's where they're thinking about heading on this, this discussion. >> josh, very quickly, we've only got about 30s, but i'd like your take as well on on what you think this profit driven foreign policy, the impacts it could have. right. you know, the value of u.s. assistance to ukraine is in establishing a safe and secure ukraine for europe so

that we can have a safe and secure world. and that cannot be achieved by allowing russia to succeed in its invasion. so while we might get a short term profit off of plundering an ally, the long term risk is that it plunges the region into disaster, which will be a terrible loss for trump and for the united states of america. >> all right. joe rubin, josh rogan, thank you all so much. and still ahead, what mitch mcconnell just said on the senate floor after announcing he will not run for reelection. plus, the fate of new york mayor eric adams. what new york governor kathy hochul, the only one with the power to remove him from office, says she plans to do. and later, major cuts are coming to the department of defense with senior leaders at the pentagon and across the military have just been ordered to do. we're back in 90s. >> hey, you. >> i'm talking to all you face. >> painting. >> instrument mastering, lava

dodging sensations. you deserve care from people who get you. not this. you need sitter city. they've been connecting families with sitters and nannies for over 20 years. these sitters and nannies like what you like. they create kids centered adventures create kids centered adventures and their sensati ♪♪ vicks vapostick provides soothing non-medicated vicks vapors. easy to apply for the whole family. vicks vapostick. and try new vaposhower max for steamy vicks vapors. to medication. >> proven to help. a daily pill to drink. less or to quit drinking altogether. text tv1. >> to 710 710. >> to learn more. >> i tried a bunch of different probiotics before seed. >> and they didn't help. >> it addressed my bloating.

>> and my irregularity. >> it's really helping. >> my daily. bowel movements and keeping. >> me pretty regular. >> i started. >> feeling better and. >> less bloated. >> felt flutter lighter. >> i just keep. >> going back. >> to seed because it. >> actually works. >> now. i walk around and smiling every day because i don't get bloated anymore. >> senator mitch mcconnell, the longest serving senate party leader in history, announced that he will not seek reelection next year. his retirement will end a four decade career as a capitol hill power broker. mcconnell chose today his 83rd birthday, to make the announcement. >> seven times our fellow kentuckians have sent me to the senate. every day in between, i've been humbled by the trust they placed in me to do their business right here. i will not

seek this honor an eighth time. my current term in the senate will be my last. >> all right. joining us now, nbc news congressional correspondent julie and julie, it's nice to see you. this is not unexpected, but, you know, it ends a long legacy. and he has been a very powerful figure. so what does it signal about the realignment of that power within the gop? >> well, i think to your point today is the announcement by mcconnell was not unexpected in many ways. the party started to realign over the last eight years, certainly over the last four, and really cemented itself in its realignment over the last two. and of course, with donald trump winning in november, it was very clear that mcconnell would not go on as the next leader. their relationship was contentious. of course, they are not on the same page about, frankly, many things. but here in the moment, we have john thune as the leader, mcconnell stepping behind the scenes. he said he will not be silent. he won't go away quietly. we've seen that already as he voted against three of donald trump's nominees. i should say today,

though, he voted for kash patel, although his statement was not glowing in any way in terms of favoring that nominee for the fbi. but mcconnell had a long career here, a long legacy. he's the longest serving leader of any party. he was seen as somebody who republicans listened to, who they followed. i would say when it comes to foreign policy is when we started to see the shift, the cracks emerge between what mcconnell was trying to do, most notably last year, pushing that ukraine aid across the finish line, his party not really listening to him when he wanted to get that across the floor. but ultimately, months later, speaker johnson negotiating his way out of that with president trump, mcconnell taking a back seat here. but today on the floor, and as his colleagues have echoed, they don't expect him to go away quietly. but he's not messaging his votes ahead of time. he's not trying to get republicans to go in the way that he wants them to go. he's kind of operating on his own, and he will continue to do so for the next year and a half before he ultimately steps down. >> i mean, you mentioned it briefly there, but i also want to talk about the other big news

today on capitol hill. and that is kash patel was just confirmed as donald trump's next fbi director. and that's despite controversies around firings, questions about his financial disclosures. and kind of significantly, there were two republican defectors, senator susan collins and lisa murkowski. but it wasn't enough. can you tell us about that? >> no, it wasn't. and that is because senate republicans have a four seat majority, that fourth vote coming from jd vance, able to break any tie as vice president. it was notable that mcconnell voted yes for kash patel. as i shared with you earlier, it was also interesting that his statement didn't say that he was proud to do so, as he did with other nominees. nevertheless, casting that i vote when on the day that he announces that he is leaving the senate and not running for reelection in 2026. lisa murkowski, you mentioned her. she said in her statement that she did have a conversation with kash patel this morning. she respected their their conversations, their meetings. she hopes that he does well. she actually said he needs to succeed in this job. but she said she hopes that he can understand that she cannot support him at this time, given those firings, given his

comments, what an ally he's been to trump, both during his first administration, but also in the comments that he's made since. clearly he wants to clean house at the fbi. lisa murkowski was a supporter of chris wray, the outgoing fbi director that trump essentially left no choice but to leave the agency. and nonetheless, we heard from democrats, particularly their opposition this morning in the top democrat on the judiciary committee, dick durbin, standing outside of the fbi building with some of the other members on that panel calling kash patel a political hack, saying that he will be a yes man for donald trump. that is exactly who donald trump has installed around him. and pam bondi in his number two pick for the doj, todd blanche, which will have his vote in the committee next week. and certainly with kash patel atop the fbi, these are the people he's promised to install all along the campaign trail. and republicans are not going to stand in the way of that. >> all right, julie, thank you so much. and joining us now we're going to turn to former director of hostage recovery for the u.s. government and senior vice president for global operations at the soufan group,

christopher o'leary. okay, chris, now that this is becoming a reality. talk to us about what we think a kash patel led fbi is going to look like. >> well, it's. really up to. >> him what decisions. >> he makes here in. >> the. >> next 24. >> to 48 hours. >> if he. >> takes a, you know. >> what the. >> personnel of. >> the fbi are hoping for. >> and what the. >> american people deserve. he takes a leadership stance that is based on character. >> integrity. >> justice, virtue. >> you know. the traits. >> you would expect from the director of the fbi. then he'll probably do fine. he's got a background that is sufficient enough from his time a decade ago working on the kampala, uganda world cup bombing and the benghazi investigations and subsequent arrests. so we built strong relationships with fbi agents and task force officers and other members of the interagency. so he's

demonstrated he can be effective. but the question really is, will he be the type of leader that builds trust and confidence with the people in the fbi? and that remains to be seen. >> that's what i was just going to ask you, because how do you build confidence when the with the rank and file, when you know you're taking over an agency at the at at this moment where you've seen several senior fbi officials have been forced out. he's also promised to go after trump's adversaries, you know, even shut down the fbi's headquarters in washington on day one to create what he's called a museum of the deep state. you know, that's those are some hard pills to swallow for people who've given their careers to this agency. how does he earn the trust of these individuals? >> well, i think there's kind of three immediate things he needs to do. number one, he needs to take a stance like brian driscoll, the acting director did, and rob cassini and james dennehy, the assistant director out of the new york office, which was also followed by the

acting u.s. attorney in new york and hagen scott and the assistant u.s. attorney really standing up for justice and the rule of law. that's what you should have at an fbi director. he also needs to take steps to get the administration to back off of demanding lists of fbi agents who worked january 6th investigations. that's how you get the trust and confidence of the american of, excuse me, of the fbi back with you. and that could happen pretty quickly. but the american people also need the trust and confidence to have trust and confidence in the fbi. and the way he needs to go about doing that is to stop this false narrative that the fbi is composed of people from the deep state, and that there's a pervasive problem and it's been weaponized, and it's politics is influenced investigations and operations, and that's frankly, patently false. >> so you've worked with the fbi on some pretty critical

international hostage situations. in order to do that successfully, you need cooperation from governments around the world where those situations are happening. and i wanted to get your take on president trump's recent comments blaming ukraine for russia's invasion and, you know, calling zelensky a dictator. that's really ruffled feathers with u.s. allies kind of across the world, you know, as kash patel comes into office, does that make it harder for him, for his agency to do their job in situations like that, when international allies may be wanting to take a step back? >> so i'll give you just a little background on the fbi. the fbi, since its inception, was built on partnerships. the, you know, under the j. edgar hoover days, in the early days, he was given this massive responsibility to conduct law enforcement nationwide, crossing state lines never done before. he did it by creating what we call task forces now, and really taking a small agency. and they became force multipliers across the country in the modern era.

we've done that by building task forces and counterterrorism in transnational organized crime and violent crime. so that not only secures the united states, but allows us to conduct operations around the world. counterterrorism, where i spent my entire career, is a team sport. it takes a network to defeat a network. we do that effectively by partnering with other agencies in the united states to be able to go capture terrorists around the world. cash is very knowledgeable of that, and we do it with our very close international partners, their partnership, their sharing of knowledge, resources, authorities, capabilities is what's critical to defend this nation. >> all right. hopefully we can see that team come together. chris o'leary, thank you so much for joining us. and still ahead, as a federal judge decides whether or not to drop the corruption charges against mayor eric adams. what governor kathy hochul says she plans to do. plus, what we know about the

sweeping budget cuts coming to sweeping budget cuts coming to the department of def they get it... they know how it works... and most importantly, it works for them. i don't have any anxiety about money anymore. i don't have to worry about a mortgage payment every month. it allowed me to live in my home and not have to make payments. unlock a portion of your home's equity with a reverse mortgage loan. get tax-free cash and stay in the home you love. it was the best thing i've ever done. really? yes, without a doubt. these folks know, finance of america can show you how a reverse mortgage loan uses your built-up home equity to give you tax-free cash. it's a good thing! so look, why don't you get the facts like these folks did and see if a reverse mortgage could work for you. finance of america is a lender you can trust. the bbb awarded us an a+ rating, and 95% of our customers would recommend finance of america to a friend.

call for your free info kit. (♪♪) price? >> kind of ridiculous, right? well, so is not taking advantage of an aarp membership. because aarp has a ridiculous offer. just $15 in the first year with automatic renewal plus a second membership free. >> that is ridiculous. >> so take advantage of hundreds of programs, services, and discounts from aarp like financial tools, job resources, and the fraud watch network that helps you spot and avoid scams. plus, discounts on gas, cell phone plans and streaming services. and know this your membership matters. as aarp advocates on important issues like healthcare, social security, and age discrimination in the workplace, and that offer gets more ridiculous. get aarp for just $15 a first year with automatic renewal and a second

membership free. plus, aarp the membership free. plus, aarp the magazine and thi nature knows best. that's why new chapter vitamins... ...follows her example. with key vitamins, minerals, herbs, and whole food ingredients... ...crafted to work with your body. ♪♪ bringing the power of nature... ...into your new chapter. until this week, my dad did not know where he was from. it means the world to share ancestry® with my dad. so nigeria, this is where it all started. so they've broken it down by regions, by journeys, and by parent. man, this is deep. this is my way of saying thank you to him. it's odd how in an instant things can transform. slipping out of balance into freefall. (the stock market is now down 23%). this is happening people. where there are so few certainties... (laughing) look around you. you deserve to know. as we navigate a future unknown. i'm glad i found stability amidst it all.

gold. standing the test of time.

shopping fabletics is there's something for everybody. get any two leggings for just $24 when you sign up as a new fabletics vip. >> donald trump is defending the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal. >> government now can. >> discriminate against the citizens of the country. >> we are. all watching. >> and waiting to see who is going to hold. >> the line. >> don't miss the weekends. >> saturday, and sunday. >> mornings at 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> go beyond. >> the headlines. >> with the. msnbc app. >> read. listen and watch. live breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere. go beyond the what? to understand the why. download the msnbc app now. >> we're going to turn now to some new developments in new york city. mayor eric adams corruption case. governor kathy hochul says she will not remove adams from office. quote, right now, but plans to impose strict guardrails on his administration. this is a federal judge delays making a decision on the doj's motion to dismiss dismiss charges against

adams following yesterday's hearing. joining us now is nbc news correspondent rehema ellis. okay. what more do we know about exactly what actions the governor says she will or won't take here? you know, she says not right now. should adams take that as a warning? >> that depends. the governor seems to be very reluctant to undo the will of the people, if you will. she has made mention that in the 235 year history of the city of new york, a governor has never unseated a duly elected mayor of the city. and so she's a little reluctant to do that. but she is interested, it seems, in making putting up some guardrails, as you say, in about 30 minutes from now, we hope to hear directly from the governor. but the expectation is that she wants to put in a new state deputy inspector, set up a fund so that the city is able to override or sue the federal government. if the mayor is not willing to do that, and also ban the mayor from firing the head of the city department of

investigation, if that were something that he was planning to do, all of these things would have to be approved by the city council as well as state legislators. and again, we think that she's going to say more definitively what she intends to do and how she hopes that she will keep the mayor in check, if you will, in the event that that there is not a dismissal of these charges. the other thing that should be mentioned is she may leave it up to the voters again. in just four months from now, there will be a primary and the mayor is planning to run for reelection. he could be primaried out of the possibility of remaining in that office after the november election. christina. >> well. >> that's also what i was going to ask you. i mean, what the in addition to what the big takeaways were from yesterday's hearing, do we know what kind of timeline it is? it seems to me like if this is delayed in court worlds, four months is not that long. to your point, we could end up back at the primary

before this is all resolved. >> yeah. one of the things that the judge said yesterday as he was concluding this hearing is that he understood the importance of this case and to move forward in an expeditious manner. and so it was expected that we will hear something from him soon. it could be today, tomorrow. we don't know what that will actually translate into. but he did say soon in terms of the takeaways from the hearing yesterday, emil bove, who is the acting u.s. attorney, he was very clear in saying that he had brought out this request to call for a dismissal of these federal corruption charges against mayor adams, saying that it was not because of the merits of the case. but he said because of the overall impact of the case on the trump administration's efforts, saying again, that, quote, his concern was about the continuation of the prosecution is interfering with national security and immigration issues. and so, with that being said, again, the judge in all of this is saying soon he will let people know whether or not he will go along

with the request for this to be dismissed or not. christina. >> all right. rehema ellis, thank you so much for joining us. and now we're going to turn to former federal prosecutor and former chief of the counterintelligence and export control section of the doj, david laufman. david, did yesterday's hearing give you any indication of which way the judge will rule? you know, it's often you can tell by the way they're asking the questions, the things they're following up on. and how significant do you think it would be if the judge declined to dismiss the charges? when does that happen? does that happen? >> well, the reporting of the hearing yesterday indicated the judge was somewhat deferential to mr. bové, even though he asked a lot of questions of the government. i will say it was extraordinary for the number two official currently acting at the department of justice to be appearing in court. that just never happens. and further extraordinary that they've been so brazenly specific about the fact that there this is not

about the merits of the case. it's purely to carry out, as they say, the agenda of the administration. but look, over the decades, over the centuries, there's been dozens and dozens of mayors and other public officials who have been charged with corruption offenses, who presumably were carrying out policies that sometime coincided with that of a current administration. so the whole thing is just a smarmy example of the violence to the rule of law that this administration seems bent on committing. and i don't know which way the judge is going to come out. it's rare for the judge, for a judge not to ultimately grant a motion to dismiss. he does have some inherent authority not to do it, but that's rarely exercised. some years ago, in dc federal court judge sullivan lit into the government in connection with a motion to dismiss the indictment against michael flynn, which then attorney general barr was behind, and

appointed a former federal judge to conduct a factual investigation. that effort was made moot when trump pardoned michael flynn. >> all right, so the deputy ag bové, who you mentioned there said the case should be dropped for national security reasons, arguing that it cost adams his security clearance and would prevent him from working with the us attorney's office. but just last week, president trump announced that he was revoking security clearances for new york attorney general letitia james and manhattan da alvin bragg, which could in turn prevent them from entering federal buildings. now, it's not confirmed whether or not this is actually happened, whether or not the clearances have actually been revoked. but does that argue does that undercut the doj argument here? >> well, there's nothing about being a defendant in a criminal class. the termination of your security clearance. nor is it clear that the mayor actually needs a security clearance to carry out his enforcement responsibilities in the city. so

and it wasn't that long ago, after he was indicted, that the mayor, you know, was publicly adamant about his intent and capability to carry out all of his duties, not withstanding the pending criminal case. >> beauvais also issued a statement after the hearing, which said, in part referring to doj employees, quote, for those who do not support our critical mission, i understand there are templates for resignation letters available on the websites of the new york times and cnn. is that a threat? what does that sound like to you, and what kind of pressure does the doj intervention in a case like this put on prosecutors? >> it's just an astonishing and frankly, as a former department of justice official and i've served as a career prosecutor, i served as a political appointee. this is a kind of sickening, corrosive campaign of coercion to bring to heel prosecutors who are faithful to their duty to the constitution, to carry out the rule of law in an impartial manner, and to bend them to the political will of the administration through the

person of mr. beauvais and the new attorney general. >> all right. we'll have to wait and see what happens. david laufman, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. christina. >> and still ahead, the budget cuts keep on coming. what defense secretary pete hegseth just ordered pentagon and military officials to do. plus, where are the guardrails? what legal loopholes the white house is exploiting to keep doge running? back in a minute. >> independent seniors have a new ally. the medical alert device from consumer cellular. and we're here to find out how much they're loving it. first up. nancy. wait. where's nancy? >> over here. >> let me show you my garden. >> nancy? sure. enjoying her peace of mind, isn't she? that's because the iris ally is the only medical alert device backed by the reliable service and support of consumer cellular. oh, dii mention the iris ally? is shower safe and rain proof? and jerry, show them the best part. >> watch this. >> with automatic fall detection, when you're wearing

your ally and it detects a fall, you'll be connected to us-based agents who can help. and if you'd like a personal contact of your choice to. >> dad. >> you're okay. >> before we got the ally. the things that he loved doing the most were the things that. >> scared me the most. >> but now we're both happy. >> the ally features gps location tracking, and 24 over seven emergency response service is just $25 a month. and call now for your second month free. now for your second month free. >> call ever feel like a spectator in your own life with chronic migraine? 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. in a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner. so why wait? talk to your doctor. botox® effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. those with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. side effects may include allergic reactions like rash, breathing problems, dizziness,

neck and injection site pain, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions like als, myasthenia gravis, or lambert-eaton syndrome and medicines like botulinum toxins, which may increase the risk of serious side effects. chronic migraine may still keep you from being there. ask your doctor about botox® today. learn how abbvie can help you save. known for sharing what you love. ♪♪ no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer. fda-approved for 18 types of cancer, including certain early-stage cancers. one of those cancers is triple-negative breast cancer. keytruda may be used with chemotherapy medicines as treatment before surgery and then continued alone after surgery when you have early-stage breast cancer and are at high risk of it coming back. keytruda can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment.

this may be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, nausea, or vomiting, headache, light sensitivity, eye problems, irregular heartbeat, extreme tiredness, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in appetite, thirst, or urine, confusion, memory problems, persistent or severe muscle pain or weakness, muscle cramps, fever, rash, itching, or flushing. there may be other side effects. tell your doctor about all medical conditions, including immune or nervous system problems, such as crohn's, ulcerative colitis, lupus, or myasthenia gravis or guillain-barré syndrome, an organ, tissue, or stem cell transplant, or received chest radiation. keytruda can harm your unborn baby. ♪♪ keytruda is an immunotherapy and is also being studied in hundreds of clinical trials, exploring ways to treat even more types of cancer. it's tru. keytruda. see all the types of cancer keytruda is known for at keytruda.com, and ask your doctor if keytruda could be right

care, not the cost. choose spot customizable pet plans. >> you both.

>> will love. >> the new secretary of defense, pete hegseth has ordered the pentagon to cut about 8% from the defense budget in the next year. that amounts to around $50 billion in reductions. joining us now, nbc news senior correspondent covering national security and of course, the pentagon, courtney kube. courtney cutting defense spending tends to be one of those third rail issues. it's pretty rare, especially with republicans. but a lot of the cuts we've seen haven't really been programs so much as firings of personnel and reductions in staff. is there any indication that we should expect the same over at the pentagon? >> yeah, i think we should think of this less as cuts, christina, and think of it almost more as reallocation of money. okay. so the way that this was initially presented is it's an 8% cut across the board, but there's 17 different agencies or combatant commands or departments that will be exempted from that. so those are those are things like the mission along the southern border, securing the southern border. the indo-pacific command, which focuses in large

part on china and the pacific area. they will be exempted from those cuts. so the 8% that equals about $50 billion will be taking away from things that are not in line with president trump's current national security and defense priorities. so things that had been a priority under president biden, like diversity initiatives, climate change and how that impacts national security, those sorts of things, the money will be taken away from those programs and those agencies, those departments. and we should expect instead for it to be reallocated to things that are more in line with president trump's budget. so you're absolutely right. defense budget military spending can be a third rail. but i don't know that we're going to actually see this as a an overall decrease in 50, $50 billion from the defense budget. >> i also want to ask you, those employees have been seen at the pentagon. i'm wondering if you've seen any of them, and is it clear who will be making the decisions on cuts? will it be hegseth, or will it be one of

these dodge employees? >> yeah, christina. we've seen them. we've been seeing them here all week. we've been asking for their names and their titles, what they're doing here. we haven't gotten any answers. we have asked multiple times, actually. so we don't really know exactly what it is they're doing now. the cuts, you know, look, we can we can look at how other agencies and other departments around town have seen these cuts. probationary employees have been generally have been cut first. it seems at this point, as the information from these dodge personnel and employees is feeding into some of these decisions. but ultimately, at the end of the day, the decision is made by the secretary of defense. christina. >> all right. courtney, thank you so much for joining us. and still ahead, what rules donald trump is bending to keep dodge trump is bending to keep dodge up and running. back with you in got an itchy throat from allergies? claritin liquid provides powerful, all-day allergy relief in an instantly soothing liquid. for relief of even your most irritating symptoms, like an itchy throat. claritin liquid. live claritin clear.® your shipping manager left to "find themself."

leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. sponsored jobs on indeed are two and a half times faster to first hire. visit indeed.com/hire returns due to identity theft increased by 20% last year. that's why lifelock monitors that's why lifelock monitors millions of data points ahh, yellow! didn't pass the tissue test? buckle up! whoa! there's toothpaste white, and there's crest 3dwhitestrips white. whitens like a 400 dollar professional treatment. pilot: prepare for non-stop smiles. crest. when emergency strikes, first responders rely on the latest technology. that's why t-mobile created t-priority built for the 5g era. only t-priority dynamically dedicates more capacity for first responders. here's to getting better with age.

here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max! if you're living with diabetes, i'll tell you the same thing i tell my patients. getting on dexcom g7 is one of the easiest ways to take better control of your diabetes and help protect yourself from the long-term health problems it can cause. this small wearable... replaces fingersticks, lowers a1c, and it's covered by medicare. not managing your diabetes really affects... your health for the future. the older you get, the more complications you're gonna see. i knew i couldn't ignore my diabetes anymore because it was causing my eyesight to go bad. before the dexcom g7, doctor's appointments were not something i looked forward to. for my patients, getting on dexcom g7 is the biggest eye opener they've ever had. when i got dexcom g7,

i couldn't believe how easy it was. this small wearable sends my glucose numbers right to my phone or my receiver. with just a glance i can see if i'm going high, low, or steady. so, i can quickly get my glucose under control and better protect myself from complications. my a1c is down to 5.8. call now to get started on the most accurate and most recommended cgm brand! you'll also get a free discussion guide for your next doctor's visit. dexcom g7 has changed my life for the better. now, i'm a superstar. my a1c is 5.7. my a1c has never been lower. i go swimming, i ride my exercise bike, and i play with my grandkids. i finally have my life back. my wife used to worry about me having diabetes before my dexcom g7. but now, she doesn't worry as much, because she knows. it gives me a lot of peace of mind. i want him to be around forever. ♪♪

no other cgm system is more affordable for medicare patients. don't miss out you may be entitled to this valuable benefit. call the number on your screen now to talk to a real person. some wrong turns. but when you're ready to sell, car gurus is a big help. get multiple offers instantly so you choose offers instantly so you choose the [birds chirping] [dog growls] ♪♪ ♪ who knows what tomorrow ♪ ♪ will bring ♪ [dog barking] ♪ maybe sunshine, ♪ [dog whining] ♪ and maybe rain ♪ ♪ but as for me ♪ ♪ i'll wait and see ♪ [knock at door] ♪ and maybe it'll bring my love to me ♪ ♪ who knows ♪ ♪ who knows ♪ ♪♪ upset stomach

iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. freeze, money in the us department of international development is not moving, which the administration is explaining away with a handful of statuses unrelated to the suspended freeze. it's just one example of the loopholes the white house is exploiting to skirt court rulings that have gone against doge, according to a new analysis from the new york times. joining us now, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. lisa. okay. how exactly is the white house doing this? can you explain how they're finding these loopholes and kind of ignoring the court ruling? >> well, the court rulings, christina. >> really only address. one

aspect of the funding freeze, which is. this original. >> office. >> of management and budget memo pursuant. >> to which. >> president trump directed a freeze of federal funding. and the court rulings address those, because those are the complaints, largely, that plaintiffs have. >> brought. >> to courts. what agencies like usaid have done since is essentially find. other rationales. >> for pausing. >> or freezing their funding. and in usaid case, what they've said. is we're only going to release funding that sort of passes a review process designed to root out fraud. that's what the acting administrator of usaid said in a court declaration yesterday. whether a court will accept that is a different story, on the other hand. >> so they're saying, you know, we want to spend all freezing the plaintiffs are saying, you can't do that. and they're coming back with, well, we're not spending all freezing. we just got a new process. and you have to apply for the funding. is that kind of where we're at? >> not that you have to apply for the funding, but that we will release funds that we determine separate and apart

from the executive order that's now been enjoined, passed a strenuous review process designed to make sure that we are rooting out fraud, which, as you know, is sort of the reason that they give for the very existence of doge, that doge is there to ensure that fraud in the us government is not responsible for wasteful spending. and so they are citing different statutory regulatory authority for this, but they are putting the onus on plaintiffs to basically go back to courts and say, well, this is wrong, to, for example, that funding in many cases should be free flowing right now pursuant to existing contracts with people in the international aid community. but instead, what usaid is saying, we're going to release this only if it passes muster under this brand new payment review process that we're implementing. it almost seems as if they're inventing a different rationale to get around this temporary restraining order. christina. >> the other thing that seems to be tripping up a lot of these lawsuits from the plaintiffs perspective, is, you know, this ruling that some judges are saying they haven't shown

imminent, irreparable harm. and anybody who who's tried to sue anybody knows, the first thing you have to prove is that they've actually harmed you. so what is the threshold there? what do these plaintiffs need to prove, and how big of a setback is this going to be for these court challenges? >> well, so the two words there that you focused on are each independently important, both imminence and irreparable. you have to show that it's beyond the mere possibility that you're going to be harmed. so the fact, for example, that doge might have had access to treasury payment management system isn't enough for a state. they have to show exactly how the state is about to be harmed by that. and that's where we get into the business of imminence. it can't just be something that's far off in the future. it has to be something that is on the cusp of happening or happening right now. and importantly, it can't just be about money, because money can be repaid irreparably from a federal court's perspective, is about an injury to you that can't be repaired by the payment of money alone. so

if a state says our program is going to suffer an injury or have to dissolve itself, or people are going to go without food as a result, for example, of doge having access to this department or another, that gets closer to the line of ability. but as you noted, they've had a lot of trouble with this, particularly with judge tanya chutkan in d.c. most recently. >> and quickly, before i let you go, i also want to ask you, the administration has been talking a lot about elon musk's role. kevin hassett just told reporters he's, quote, an it consultant at a white house press briefing. is there a legal reason they're keeping his role ambiguous? >> there sure is, because if elon musk's role isn't understood well by nonprofits or states or other people who are going to bring legal challenges to what doge is doing, then he's not the right defendant for them. and that alone can defeat a lawsuit. christina. >> all right. lisa rubin, thank you so much for joining us. and thank all of you. that's going thank all of you. that's going to be it for me today. deadl with fatigue and light-headedness, i knew something was wrong.

then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. this is no time to wait. when you really need to sleep. ahyou reach for thek. really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. let's get started. bill, where's your mask? i really tried sleeping with it, everybody. but i'm done struggling. now i sleep with inspire. inspire? inspire is a sleep apnea treatment that works inside my body with just the click of this button. a button? no mask? no hose?

just sleep. yeah but you need the hose, you need the air, you need the whoooooosh... inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more, and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com and with the help of financing from capitas, you can meet all of your business goals because at capitas we finance the legacy builders, the creators, the freedom chasers, the opportunity freedom chasers, the opportunity seekers. at capitas w dry... tired... itchy, burning... my dry eye symptoms got worse over time. my eye doctor explained the root was inflammation. xiidra was made for that, so relief is lasting. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra and seek medical help if needed. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort,

blurred vision, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. before using xiidra, remove contact lenses and wait fifteen minutes before re-inserting. dry eye over and over? it's time for xiidra. (vo 1) when you really philosophize about it, there's one thing you don't have enough of, and that's time. time is a truly scarce commodity. when you come to that realization, i think it's very important to spend time wisely. and what better way of spending time than traveling, continuing to educate ourselves and broaden our minds. (vo 2) viking. exploring the world in comfort. [clears throat] sounds like you need to vaporize that sore throat. vapocool drops? it's sore throat relief with a rush of vicks vapors. ♪ vapocooooool ♪ whoa. vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops.

the way i approach work post fatherhood, has really trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. with code tv. i could have told

you that. >> i could have told you that. we're going to. >> start with. >> breaking news. >> on capitol hill. >> mounting questions over the future of tiktok in the us. >> reporting from philadelphia. >> el paso. >> in the palisades, virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. >> msnbc presents a new podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. >> if you need a window today into the republican party's complete capitulation to trump's most dangerous and anti-democratic impulses, their acquiescence to trump this week as he parrots putin's lies about ukrainian president zelensky, is all you need to take in donald trumppe