and on that note, i wish you all a very safe night from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news. thanks for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. >> hi everyone, i'm jen psaki. chris is off this week. i promise you he will be back next week. but in the meantime there is a whole lot to talk about. believe it or not, it has been exactly a month since the start of a new trump administration. does it feel like a month? does it feel like a year? somewhere in between. but a lot even happened today. i mean, this afternoon, elon musk brought a literal chainsaw to the stage of cpac and also seemed to have a bit of a hard time completing a coherent thought. a conspiracy theorist was confirmed as the director of the fbi. that guy, you know, who i'm talking about,

kathy hochul, said today she won't remove eric adams just yet, but she did propose giving him a babysitter of sorts. so clearly, a lot happened today. we're going to get into all of it over the next hour. but i want to start. 11 years ago this month, after ukraine's parliament voted unanimously to remove the country's pro-russian president from office, vladimir putin's forces invaded eastern ukraine, with the force known at the time as the little green men, and claimed that part of ukraine was actually a part of russia. you probably remember it, and i remember it well because i was the spokesperson at the state department at the time. i also remember, well, republicans being quite united in their opposition to putin's aggression and vocal about it. they were also pretty united in their anger. they felt and vocalized toward democratic president obama for doing what they felt was not enough to help the ukrainians. and one of the republican senators who stood up at that time to make the case

very passionately to americans about why they should care enough about aid to ukrainians to have it delivered, was someone you may recognize. >> we should always stand on the side of the. >> vulnerable and the oppressed. vladimir putin's recent. >> invasion of. >> ukraine is a. >> clear challenge to these principles. some ask. >> why is this our problem? well. >> because we cannot allow the precedent to be. >> set that in. >> order to engage the west. >> and trade and commerce. >> smaller nations. >> must first. >> seek the permission of their more powerful neighbors. president obama. >> talks tough about. >> vladimir putin. >> but his actions have not gone far enough to change putin's. calculation that the benefits of his aggression outweigh the costs. >> and then a few years later, when senator rubio had concerns that donald trump's first choice for secretary of state was insufficiently outraged at vladimir putin's behavior, he let him have it to.

>> mr. tillerson, do. >> you believe. >> that vladimir putin and. >> his cronies. >> are responsible for ordering. >> the murder. >> of countless. >> dissidents, journalists. >> and political opponents? >> i do not have sufficient information to make that claim. >> are you aware that people who oppose. vladimir putin wind up. >> dead all over the world, poisoned. >> shot in the back of the head? and do you. >> think. >> that was coincidental, or do. >> you think. >> that. >> it is quite possible or likely. >> as i. >> believe. >> that they were. >> part of an effort. >> to murder. >> his political opponents? >> that was then, not that long ago, senator marco rubio laying out the stakes pretty perfectly. i will hand it to him. americans stand up for the oppressed, not the oppressor. we don't reward the aggression of violent thugs like putin. of course we don't. we raise the cost of that aggression. or we should. if there was one running theme, actually to rubio's career in the senate, other than his desire for career advancement, it was his concern about russia and putin who he called a

criminal, a murderer and an authoritarian thug who must be stopped. but then donald trump became president again, and he made rubio the secretary of state. and as a result, on tuesday, rubio, the former russia hawk, was sent to saudi arabia to do trump's bidding. sitting across from russia's foreign minister after, by the way, his boss had already made clear he was more than happy to give putin all the ukrainian land they wanted, and rubio had to try to negotiate an end to putin's war in ukraine with putin, but not with the ukrainians. >> the only leader in the. world who can make this happen, who. >> can even bring people together to begin. >> to talk about it in a serious way, is president trump. he's the only one in the. >> world that can do that right now. >> quite a claim, the only one in the world. but even as rubio was at that table, trump was making pretty clear where his allegiances actually were. i mean, he called ukrainian president zelensky a dictator

without elections, falsely accusing zelensky of starting the war in which russia invaded his country. just wrap your head around that. he claims zelensky was suspending elections because his approval rating was only 4%, which, by the way, is so far off. a recent poll showed zelensky's approval rating was actually at 57%. zaleski zelensky responded by saying that most of trump's claims are russian propaganda, adding, quote, unfortunately, president trump is living in this disinformation space and evergreen statement, but none of this shouldn't come as a big surprise because all of this the us russia summit, trump's rant against ukraine, all of it really comes just days after trump had his first phone call back in the white house, with none other than vladimir putin. now, trump did send his ukraine envoy, retired general keith kellogg, to kyiv to meet with zelensky today. but then their planned joint news conference after the meeting was abruptly canceled, with basically no clear reasons given at all. so

it's clear what trump's idea for ending this war is reward the violent dictator who started it and demonized the democratically elected president of the country that was invaded. and it bears repeating. when the us faced a similar situation in 2014, after russia invaded eastern ukraine took crimea for itself. there was a huge caucus in washington screaming at then president obama and the entire administration that they needed to provide lethal assistance weapons to the ukrainians and be tougher on putin. and it was dominated by republican russia hawks like rubio and senator lindsey graham. >> if we do. >> not decisively. >> push back against putin and make him weaker and all of our friends in the region stronger, the iranians are going to misunderstand yet again, we mean it regarding their nuclear program. so much is at stake. putin is on the wrong side of history. he's on the wrong side of the law. make him pay a price. the ukrainian people are

dying for their freedom. i hope we will stand with them. not this. not just in words, but in deeds. >> i mean, you heard him lay it out clearly there, graham said. not helping ukraine would put the us on the wrong side of history, and it would send the wrong message to adversaries like iran, which is very different from what he is saying these days. >> talking to the russians separately, i'm actually okay with that. i think there's one person that putin really is afraid of, and that's trump. if you ever get a good deal on ukraine, it'll be because trump created a sense of dread. by russia. >> i mean, what are they dreading exactly? taking the land trump has offered them? i'm not totally sure about that analysis, but this is what republicans are doing now, going against all of their strongest convictions about america's role in the world, about the threat of russia, the threat of putin to bend the knee. to trump. it

reached a climax today when national security adviser michael waltz dodged some pretty straightforward questions from reporters about trump blaming zelensky for the war and about waltz's own past statements to the contrary. >> who does he think is more responsible for the russian invasion of ukraine? putin or zelensky? >> well, look, his his goal, peter, is to bring this war to an end period. and there has been ongoing fighting on both sides. >> you wrote in an op ed in the fall of 2023 that, quote, putin is to blame, certainly like al qaeda was to blame for nine over 11. do you still feel that way now, or do you share the president's assessment, as he says, ukraine is to blame for the start of this war? >> well. >> it shouldn't surprise you that i share the president's assessment on all kinds of issues. what i wrote as a member of congress is, was, was as a former member of congress, look, what i share the president's assessment on is that the war has to end. this is a president of peace. and who here would argue against peace? >> okay. >> so you.

>> turns out there's an op ed for everything. that's how republicans play the game. now the game of basically how do i please our dear leader? the problem is this is not a game at all. i mean, trump is openly taking the side of a dictator against an oppressed american ally. millions of ukrainian lives are at stake. and that's just the beginning. this is having a broader impact on the world. it could have one. it gives putin a green light to carve out a new empire. and he might decide that includes poland or latvia or estonia, nato allies, that america is still theoretically sworn to protect. but what are those promises worth now? i mean, that's the other question. it's also a bad sign for domestic politics. it's an indication of just how willing the republicans are to go against their own long held and publicly stated political convictions to back trump when he's at his most erratic and self-serving. and if they'll bend on this, what else are they going to be willing to bend on? democratic senator chris of delaware sits on the

senate foreign relations committee, and he joins me now. senator, i just wanted to start by asking you, when you hear how secretary rubio and senator graham are talking about russia now, given what they've said in the past, what do you make of that? >> look, i think you framed it well, jen, which is that president trump is the one who has made a dramatic departure from our previous positions as a country. and by suggesting that zelensky is responsible for russia's invasion of ukraine, by denouncing zelensky as supposedly an illegitimate dictator, president trump is completely reversing standing on its head the positions that my republican colleagues have held for years. with the additional announcement this week that secretary hegseth is calling for 8% across the board cuts to defense spending for the next five years, i'll be interested to see how they turn themselves into a pretzel, to somehow

suggest that that advances peace through strength. >> they certainly are becoming good at turning themselves into pretzels. i'll give them that. there seems to be this argument you have said at the negotiating table. i have been at the negotiating table, but they are making this argument that if you give putin the parts of ukraine he wants and also pull back assistance to ukraine, that will put putin in a tougher point of negotiation. that does not make any sense. but explain to us what you make of that argument. >> so folks who are working for president trump, who is allegedly a great dealmaker, i think he wrote a book called the art of the deal, auto go look in that book and see if there's anything in there that suggests the best way to negotiate is by giving away your major points right up front. obviously, this isn't how trump and hegseth and waltz should be negotiating with putin. putin is a murderous

thug. he's a gangster and a kgb agent, and they all know it. and the only way to achieve a just and lasting peace for ukraine, worthy of the fierce sacrifice of the many ukrainians who have fought and died to recover their sovereign territory from russian aggression, is to stand toe to toe with putin and threaten to increase sanctions on russia, threaten to send more weapons, not less, to ukraine, and lock arms with our european partners who have already spent more than we have on ukraine's defense and economy. if he did that, trump would show that he understands how to achieve peace through strength. instead, what he's doing so far is going to lead to chaos through weakness. and if he in fact abandons betrays ukraine, he will be the biggest loser of the 21st century. >> one of the concerns that i know our european allies have expressed, and you and others have expressed here, is that this could give putin a bit of a

green light to take these actions in other countries in eastern europe. what do you think of that and what concerns you the most? >> so i was at the munich security conference, jen, with a bipartisan delegation from the senate and house, and we met with heads of state, defense ministers, foreign ministers from throughout eastern europe and western europe. and all of them are alarmed, concerned that giving putin a free pass to roll over the rest of ukraine will send a signal that president trump no longer respects our commitment to nato and that putin will just keep going once he reconstitutes his full military. they believe that he will next threaten the baltic states, poland, the czech republic, that he will threaten all of our core allies in europe. i also have heard repeatedly, and i believe this, that xi jinping, the leader of the prc, is watching closely and that if we give him the signal that we're no longer willing to defend ukraine, his inclination

to seize taiwan will increase dramatically. jen, think about it. on one team, you've got russia, china, iran and north korea. on the other team, you've got ukraine, germany, italy, the united kingdom, france, belgium, netherlands, our longtime allies. why on earth would it make us safer and stronger for our president to put in with this other team, this team of authoritarians who have undermined and fought against everything we stand for? >> senator, one of the arguments the trump folks make sometimes is that americans don't want to invest in ukraine. we've seen a little bit of this in polls in terms of spending money overseas and spending money in ukraine. why do you think they should? you've named some of the reasons. but why should americans watching right now care about continuing to support ukraine? >> americans should care because the ukrainians are doing the fighting. they are fighting the largest, most aggressive army in europe. and if we don't stop

putin in ukraine, he's next going to be knocking on the door of our critical nato allies. it is pennies on the dollar for us to partner with europe in providing the support that ukraine needs to continue its fight, rather than having to send american troops to defend our allies in poland and the baltic states. you mentioned jen at the beginning of this show. what happened in 2008 and in 2014, when putin rolled in to georgia and moldova and then took crimea and then moved into the donbas, the lack of deterrence back then, in no small part led to this additional aggression three years ago. and if we fail to deter and to stop putin here, i think there's no end to how much of the former soviet empire he will intend to take back. >> senator chris, thank you so much for joining us. i know it was loud there. i appreciate you taking the time and still had the nation's top law enforcement position will be run by a

staunch donald trump loyalist. senator sheldon whitehouse is here with a warning for republicans on their votes for kash patel. plus, how elon musk is now extending his reach into state politics and how the trump justice department is chilling the free speech of elected democrats. one of those democrats, congressman robert garcia, joins me next. >> are you certain he'll fit? >> sure. >> are you for imprint? certain. certainty matters when you need certain. promo gear. you can be certain for imprints. got it. quality apparel. got it. >> drinkware got it. >> bags. >> high tech outdoor. >> got it, got it, got it. so go get it at for imprint.com. >> imprint for certain. >> if you're over 50. imagine you could. >> turn back. >> the clock on your stiff achy joints ten even 20 years. imagine you could. do this

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msnbc. >> oh! >> this is. >> the chainsaw for bureaucracy, foods or. >> who? >> that actually happened today. and in addition to wielding a chainsaw while wearing sunglasses at cpac earlier inside, of course, elon musk also accused democrats of taking away freedom of speech and personal freedoms, which is pretty rich given the trump administration is up in arms about robert garcia exercising his own first amendment rights last week. >> what i think is. >> really important. >> and what. >> the american public want. >> is for us. >> to bring. >> actual weapons to this bar

fight. >> this is an. actual fight. >> for democracy, for the. >> future of this country. >> and it's important. >> it's also important to get the attention of the american public and call elon musk out for what he is. >> in response to those comments, the trump justice department engaged in what appears to be a bit of an unprecedented effort to scare or silence the congressman or both. acting u.s. attorney for washington, d.c, ed martin, who i would note also was a defense lawyer for the january 6th. insurrectionists, sent a letter to garcia asking him to clarify his comments. but his former u.s. attorney, barbara mcquade, said, it seems like a fair inference that these letters are designed more to chill free speech than to seek clarification, as they purport to do. and congressman, california congressman robert garcia joins me now. congressman, i find it quite rich that the free speech warriors at the trump justice department would be so worked up about a metaphor you used on cnn. obviously, there's no bar fight. no one is bringing

weapons anywhere. but what do you think they are trying to do here? >> i mean, it's pretty clear that they are trying. >> to not just intimidate me, but intimidate other members of congress who. >> are actively. >> opposing and criticizing donald trump and elon musk from actually speaking. and it's crazy that they want to investigate me for essentially using. >> a metaphor. >> and for taking. >> on elon musk. >> and i think what's what's really. disturbing in this moment is that we know that we've got to fight fire with fire. we know we've got to bring the energy to this fight. as elon musk is raiding the federal treasury to give himself and his billionaire buddies a tax cut, and they want to police that language. they want to stop us from fighting back. and so, you know, look, we take. this threat seriously. >> at the same time. >> we're not going to be silenced by elon musk or by donald trump. >> this feels to me, i just was talking about russia earlier propaganda. so it's a natural flow into that. i mean, this

feels like a classic case of trying to flip the script, right? even ed martin suggesting democrats are trying to threaten doj's workers. how do you you're not going to stand stand down, as you said. but how do you stop them from getting away with this effort to flip the script? >> well, first of all, we got to call it out. >> i mean, it's. >> crazy that. >> this is the same. >> u.s. attorney who, of. >> course. >> defended january 6th insurrectionists. donald trump wants to pardon january 6th, but then he wants to police metaphors and figures of speech by members of congress who also. >> have constitutional protections. >> this is clearly a clear. authoritarian move. >> to. >> silence critics and people that are criticizing what elon musk is actually doing raiding and attacking medicare, attacking the department of education, trying to destroy any progress we've had in this country. >> and so i. >> think at this moment, i. >> understand that while they targeted me, it's not really about me. >> this is about silencing. >> members of congress and silencing critics. and so we

can't do is we can't retreat. we can't pull back. >> we've got. >> to double down. we've got to fight hard. there is absolutely no way that this letter is going to silence me. he has given me till. tuesday to respond to his. >> ridiculous demands. >> and so, you know, we will. >> be responding. >> appropriately, but it's not. >> going to. be by staying silent. >> how are you going to respond? >> well, we're talking, of course, to our to our house leadership as well as some other folks that are been pushing back on some of these efforts by the us attorney. >> what we. >> shouldn't be doing, of course, is not saying anything and allowing this to continue. what i said today, we just got this letter yesterday. and by the way, they sent this letter to the press before they even sent it to me, which goes to show how. political this actually is. we're going to be very clear that we have a constitutional right to push back against the administration, and that members of congress should not be silenced through fear, through some type of intimidation tactics that donald

trump and elon musk want to use. elon musk is the richest man on the planet. he's out there destroying federal agencies and institutions. we have a responsibility to fight fire with fire. and the american public are demanding. >> us as elected officials. >> as the representatives, to also be tough and fight in a way that is fearless. and that's what we have to. >> do at this moment. >> i think fearlessness is so important, and i know elon musk would probably love it if we only talked about this letter. but the whole point here is to talk about what he's doing. so let's talk about that, because as you mentioned, he's engaged in a mass firing of our federal government. but importantly, a lot of what he's doing is massively disrupting services to millions of americans who rely on them while wielding a chainsaw at cpac. so what what do you wish was getting more attention that's impacting people in your district? from the doge team that from actions from the doge team. >> i'll just i'll. >> give you one example. >> i mean, there's they're.

>> doing horrible things in every department. i have parents reaching out that have kids and children in our school system here that are depending on special services. these are children with disabilities, students with disabilities, some of the largest funding in my home state of california and across the country come from the department of education to assist classroom school districts, teachers to help our students with disabilities. and they are wondering what their future is going to be like, what the future of their school is going to be like, where their funding is going to be stripped away from public schools and sent to private schools that oftentimes don't want to support children with disabilities. >> we have. >> terrified parents and families right now, as well as seniors who worry about their social security. families that worry about medicaid. so there are real impacts, and we're hearing from them and people that are literally being fired from their jobs, folks that have overperformed at their jobs, that have been promoted, that are now in these probationary positions because they've actually been doing an excellent job that are seeing their jobs

being eliminated because. elon musk wants to collect as much, quote unquote, savings as possible so he can, himself and his billionaire buddies, a huge tax break. we've got to be very strong in our opposition to what's actually happening right now. and real lives are being impacted. >> congressman, thank you for really bringing to life some of the impacts here, which i think is so important for people to hear about. i really appreciate you joining me and taking the time and continuing to stand up out there. coming up next, the warning for republicans after they put kash patel and his enemies list into the fbi for a ten year term. and later, there's finally been a decision on new york city's mayor, sort of after his deal with donald trump. that's coming up. >> imagine a switch that could wipe your personal data off the internet with one click. incogni stops identity thieves and

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advantage is not available in t5 now. >> when left to his own. >> devices. kash patel has proven. >> himself to be a wildly vindictive partizan when around donald trump, kash patel has. >> proved. >> himself to be a sycophantic suck up. kash patel mark my words will cause evil in this building behind us, and republicans. >> who vote for him. >> will rue that day. >> just hours after senator sheldon whitehouse issued that warning outside fbi headquarters, the senate confirmed kash patel as fbi director, with only two

republicans dissenting. patel, who has published an enemies list of government officials and children's books in which donald trump is the king, will now head the country's premier law enforcement agency with all of its broad powers of surveillance and investigation. he takes over as the fbi is also in turmoil, with the trump musk administration already forcing out several senior fbi executives and multiple heads of field offices and demanding a list of all the thousands of fbi agents across the country who worked on january 6th investigations, and senator sheldon whitehouse of rhode island and senior member of the judiciary committee joins me now. senator whitehouse, you have been fighting like hell. i think i can say, to prevent kash patel from getting confirmed, you have some strong words today outside of the fbi by fbi headquarters. he's going to be the director tomorrow. what? what are you preparing for him to potentially get started in the next couple of days?

>> i think lots of oversight, because there is no way that this does not end badly with this guy over at the fbi. >> i mean. >> you can go on and on about his problems. he has foreign entanglements through cayman island, corporations with chinese interests. he asserted the fifth amendment, and republicans in the judiciary committee wouldn't even make him explain what crimes he legitimately thought he was in jeopardy for. he has gotten a complete pass because of the power of trump and the roughness, the thuggery of the application of political force to republican senators. he's not qualified for trump. colleagues of his in the first administration have gone on and on publicly about how unqualified he is. they wouldn't have been there. office over my dead body forced on me.

ludicrous individual. that's the kind of stuff that this guy brings to a very, very serious job. and so now it's time for accountability for those votes. >> what does that look like? i mean, you said earlier today that republicans will regret and many of them may everything you outlined and more is, i think, valid concerns. the political enemies list is one thing he could start with. but yes. what do you think that looks like? what will they regret? >> the fbi has a very distinct ethos. there's a lot of pride in the organization, and there are a lot of people who dedicated their lives to really important things and have done really significant work, some of it not even known. >> to. >> the american people. so this is a very proud group into which donald trump is sending this guy, and he brings the worst.

and they're already doing damage to senior and respected people. they're doing random firings. >> they're trying to humiliate. >> members of the fbi who other people respect. it's the worst possible way to come in. and so there will be a reaction. there will be whistleblowers who are willing to call out whatever it is that he starts to get up to, whether it's refusing to prosecute trump cronies or whether it's cutting deals with china, or whether it's following in the trump russia stuff by shutting. down intel operations against russia, whether it's finding ways to feather his own nest, it's hard to predict because he's so bad across so many sectors of life. but there will be stuff. >> that we. >> will find out about it. >> i want to ask you about the china piece, because you brought this up a couple times, and i think as people are trying understand what to watch out for, it's important for them to understand this. you raise concerns about patel's financial stake in a china linked company,

and the wall street journal reported today that he stands to make millions from this investment. explain to us more about your concerns and what we should really be watching for here. >> well. >> first of all. >> this wasn't well disclosed in his fbi background investigation. >> so this. >> took further digging by the press to bring this out. so there's a whole separate question about whether the fbi really took a full on professional look at this guy who was who was coming in. he has an interest in this chinese company that has held in a cayman islands corporation, and it's worth somewhere between 1 to $5 million, which is a big amount of money for anyone. and it vests its shares. it vests during the period that he will be in the fbi. well, chinese corporations tend to be under the thumb of the chinese communist party. and if the fbi

is working against chinese intelligence interests, which it is every day, they now have huge leverage over this guy. >> in terms. >> of what they can do to either enhance or diminish the value of his chinese communist party controlled asset in this cayman islands shell corporation. >> it's pretty unbelievable. thank you for explaining it to everybody watching. >> possibly go wrong. right. >> what could possibly go wrong? let me ask you. i mean, he literally published a political enemies list in his book. there are a lot of people on there who are well known. some of them worked for trump in the first administration. some of them didn't. what can be done, if anything, to prevent him at this point from moving forward and pursuing actions against these individuals? >> well, the. >> first thing that will happen is. if anyone is charged with an offense or sent a notice that there's a subject of a grand jury investigation, they now have his whole background to

take into court and say, hey, this has to stop. and they have rights in court to discovery. they can. find out probably more than we even know about his motives and his animus towards individual people. so the process of trying to come after people actually will give them a big opportunity to dig into his background and show why the prosecution against him is a malicious prosecution, which not only gives rise to. release from the prosecution, but also gives rise to civil liability against the individual who used his office or misused his office to try to do harm to somebody who, for personal reasons, he did not like. >> senator sheldon whitehouse, so much to watch here. thank you so much for explaining a lot of it to us and really pushing back as hard as you could to try to prevent him from being confirmed. really appreciate your time tonight. and still ahead, elon musk expanding his reach. and he seeks to influence

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ballot this april. susan crawford, a liberal state judge aligned with the democrats, is running against a guy named brad schimel, who is a hard right maga conservative and also an ally of donald trump. now, the winner of this race will determine the ideological majority on wisconsin supreme court for years to come, which a lot of things will be impacted by that. both sides see it as a must win. and after spending a quarter of $1 billion to get trump elected in november, the richest man on earth is trying to buy this election as well. one elon musk backed group has already poured more than a million and a half dollars into this wisconsin state supreme court race, flooding the airwaves with tv ads that will run across the state's major media markets. now, for her part, susan crawford, accused of being bought and paid for by right wing extremists, which i feel like is something we should prepare ourselves to hear a lot of over the next few years. ben wikler is the chair of the wisconsin democratic party. few people know more about wisconsin politics. ari berman is the national voting rights

correspondent for mother jones, where he's been writing about how elon musk is trying to buy the wisconsin supreme court. and they join me now. ari, let me let me start with you. this is maybe hard for people to wrap their heads around. why is elon musk involved in this? but he's he's this group building america's future. it's funding the ads. how is it linked to elon musk? >> well, jen, thank you for having me. and great to be here with ben as well. elon musk is this dark money groups biggest donor. and the fact that they are now running ads in the wisconsin supreme court race underscores the stakes of this contest and shows how the maga plan for oligarchy goes well beyond washington. and they realize that so many of these important issues, whether it's voting rights, abortion, union rights, so many key rights and freedoms that are at stake in. washington will actually be decided at the state level. and in many cases, they will be ruled on by state courts. and that's why the ideological balance of power on the wisconsin supreme court is so

important. democrats have won a lot of close elections on the court. and so what the right wing is doing is they are doubling down on their efforts to try to take the court back by following trump's playbook in 2024. >> and ben, you've been sounding the alarm about this race. i think you texted me many weeks ago about it and something that i was something to pay attention to. ari just laid out a very good rundown of why it's important, but you're living in the state. why is it so important? what should people understand, and why do you think elon musk cares about it? >> well. >> everything is. on the. >> line with this race in the state. that's the closest state in the. >> country, wisconsin. >> and elon musk. >> is trying. >> to pay. >> to bankroll his. >> campaign to. send him to cast the deciding vote in the state supreme court. >> because if. you look. >> back, wisconsin. is the only state where the presidential election was almost overturned by a single vote. >> that was. >> the that was the margin of

safety in 2020. >> it's a state where voting rights over. >> and over have come before. >> the state. >> supreme court. elon musk tweeted a month ago that people needed to vote. >> republican in the state supreme. >> court race to support. >> brad schimel. >> to prevent. >> quote unquote. >> voter fraud. >> which is a code word for to support voter suppression. he was mad that the court had reinstated drop boxes. he's now pulling messages about trying. >> to. lock in the conservative. >> house majority in order to make sure that it can. >> pass donald trump's agenda. >> he knows that his. power to erode and undermine and gut our constitution in the whole country runs through control of state court systems like wisconsin. and that's why we're asking. >> everyone to. >> help support susan crawford, who. >> actually believes in. democracy in the. >> wisconsin supreme court race and asking folks to volunteer. >> and donate and. >> do. >> everything they can. >> but, ari, it seems like this is such an enormous amount of money that is being spent here by this group. i can't even emphasize that enough relative to what it is. as i understand it from your piece, the ads and other reporting are scheduled to

run through early march. now, do you have any? i assume they're going to continue until the race at this point? >> yeah. and what happened is when elon musk got involved, that sent a signal to other donors to get involved. so you have some of the biggest funders of election denial. people that bankrolled the insurrection, the state's largest business groups, they're getting involved now. so there's a lot of outside money coming in behind the conservative candidate, brad schimel. he has actually openly said he wants dark money groups to get involved in the race, which is very alarming for a supreme court justice candidate to say that because he could be hearing cases involving many of these interests, and i imagine the money musk is spending is just the beginning of what the trump involvement will be in this race, because they understand that you can get a lot more. bang for your buck on the state level. elon musk is not going to have to spend $288 million like he did in 2024, to influence the wisconsin supreme court race. $1 million, $2 million that goes a long way in

a race like this. and unfortunately, not enough people are paying attention because they're obviously so consumed by what's happening in washington. for good reason. but as i said earlier, jen, so many of the issues that are at stake in democracy, whether it's voting rights, abortion rights, labor rights, they are going to be decided at the state level. and that's where democrats can actually make a tangible difference to fight back against the trump agenda right now. >> it's exactly why we're talking about it, ari. it is so important for people to pay attention to. let me ask you about, i mean, this amount of money being spent, the number of people who turn out in a race like this, what is the pool of voters here? >> so typically turnout. >> is less than. >> half in a spring supreme court election like this than what you see in a presidential election like we. had last year, 3.4 million. last year. if we get to. >> 1.5. >> 1.6 million, that would be explosive. turnout in this race. >> what that. >> means is that this is an election where if someone, wherever you might be in the country, if you. >> go. >> to volunteer and sign.

>> up. >> for a phone bank, you'll call voters who don't know this. >> election is happening. >> it's on april 1st. susan crawford versus brad schimel. you tell people about it, you tell them elon musk is supporting brad schimel, that susan crawford actually represented planned parenthood in a case called planned parenthood versus brad schimel when he was the republican attorney general of the state. they will clock in and they will vote. you can you can turn voters on. >> to this election, and we can. >> organize our way to victory, because this is. >> not a. >> presidential race. this is something where even with all of his might. >> and i. >> should add, elon musk added another million dollars just in the last few hours with this group america pac. so the torrent of money is. >> just begun. >> but we can fight back by doing the on the ground organizing, by chipping in a few bucks with a whole bunch of people doing it, and actually beat elon musk for the first. >> time in. >> this dark. modern moment. and if we do that, it sends. a shockwave. >> of energy. >> through the whole country by showing that he's not invulnerable, that that is the stakes in this race. it is the question of whether he can just buy every level of government, or whether we still have a

democracy where people have the final say. >> it's such an important race to follow. what? just before i let you go, ari, let me ask you, is there another race like this that you're watching around the country that you expect elon musk and his group, only about 30s left here to get involved in? what else should we be watching? >> well, i'm watching an unprecedented attempt by republicans in north carolina to try to overturn a state supreme court election right now. and that just shows how important these state supreme court races here. maga republicans will go to any lengths to try to win these races, even when they're flying under the radar. >> ari, thank you so much for bringing light to these races. they're so important to pay attention to and focus on. ben wikler, thank you for educating us all, always on wisconsin and everything we need to pay attention to. thank so much for joining me. that does it for me tonight. the rachel maddow show starts right now. hey, rachel. >> hey, jen. thank you, my friend. much appreciated. thank you. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. so the data is in. it's been a month

officially as of today, for the new presidential term. and what the data says sort of broadly, bottom line is that the country kind of hates this guy. yeah. i shouldn't say hate. that's not the right word. it's not a nice word. maybe it's can't stand him. or maybe i shouldn't characterize it at all. we'll just. i'll show you the numbers. i will say we probably should have seen this coming. i didn't necessarily believe that it was coming this far this fast, but, you know, right out of the gate, gallup did polling just after the inauguration. they did their first poll on public opinion of trump in this second term, starting immediately after the inauguration. literally, they had their first poll in the field. the first full day trump was in office the day after he was sworn in. that is the definition of the honeymoon period, right? that's when you are at your high water mark in terms of what people