it or want to make sure that there are enough cuts to pay for it. it's going to be a fight to the end, and it's unclear where what that final resolution looks like. >> yeah, a fight to the end. and for speaker johnson, a true test in herding cats within his conference who have very wide range of views on how best to go about a proposal like this one. kadia goba, thank you for joining us. thank you. that was way too early for this friday morning. morning joe starts right now. >> i support president trump, and i believe that most of his policies on national security are right. i believe his instincts are pretty good. but what i'm telling you, whoever believes that there is any space for vladimir putin in the future of a stable globe, better go to ukraine. they better go to europe. they better invest the time to understand that this man is a cancer and the greatest

threat to democracy in my lifetime. so, ladies and gentlemen, when i tell you that vladimir putin is a liar, a murderer, and a man responsible for ordering the systematic torture, kidnaping and rape of innocent civilians, believe me, because the evidence is mile high. if you believe that ukraine is a country, an ocean away, and not relevant to our national security, think again. the world is small. the world is watching. the strength of our alliances are on the line. and the future of democracy in the world is on the line. if we do anything less than defeat vladimir putin. >> that is republican. >> senator thom tillis of north carolina on the senate floor yesterday, actually saying the quiet part out loud, voicing the concerns of the senate. floor on the senate floor that most of

his fellow republicans are whispering in the gop cloakroom and what america's closest allies are voicing across western democracies that stood by the united states of america in our fight against nazism. and soviet communism. and also the same concerns being voiced among donald trump's. most loyal defenders in the media. most this morning are still asking whether mr. trump's cruel positioning against ukraine is merely. misaligned. some disastrous opening bid in negotiations. >> are a. >> drastic realignment. >> of u.s. >> foreign policy. >> that will. >> be more dangerous, more immoral. and encourage more russian invasions. across eastern and central europe. just ahead, we're. going to.

>> show you how donald. >> trump's. >> national security adviser. >> is now trying. >> to. explain the president's. >> position. >> which is exactly the opposite of what his has been. >> when he was a member of congress. good morning, and welcome to morning joe. >> it's friday, february 21st with us. we have cohost of our fourth. >> hour and contributing writer at the atlantic, jonathan. >> lemire, pulitzer prize. >> winning columnist. >> and associate editor of the. washington post. >> eugene robinson. we have writer. >> at large. >> for the new york times. elisabeth bumiller, managing. >> editor at the. >> bulwark, sam stein. >> and also, we have the host of way too early, ali vitali. >> and, you know, gene. >> we're going. >> to get we're. >> going to get to. >> ukraine in a minute. >> but just i just think we shouldn't let. >> what thom tillis said. >> go by without. >> a comment. >> off the top. what senator tillis said is actually publicly is what almost every republican senator is. saying privately. >> what what almost. every

republican house. member is saying privately. that's on the. >> armed services committee or the foreign affairs committee. they are horrified by what they're hearing. >> and now. >> we're going to be reporting. >> that the g-7. >> has scrubbed their official. communique to take out russia as the aggressor in a war that vladimir putin clearly started. >> yeah, absolutely. >> so the. >> g-7 cannot. publish a joint. >> statement with the phrase. russian aggression. >> in it. >> it look. >> this is. >> insane. but you talk about it as well. >> maybe it's. >> an opening bid. people are saying this is trump being trump or whatever. i don't see why anyone should not believe him. he likes vladimir putin. he can't stand vladimir zelensky. we know that. you know how much. of foreign policy, domestic policy, how much of life is just

personal to donald trump, his own grievances, his his own. >> petty slights. >> that he he he believes that he experienced. and i. >> think he fully intends to follow through with this new, completely unamerican, disastrous foreign policy that he has outlined in the last few days. >> yeah, and he. >> has he has made. >> it deeply personal. >> calling. >> zelensky a. >> modestly successful. >> comedian. >> calling for new elections. >> in ukraine. >> demanding half of their. >> minerals with. >> their deal. >> we did. >> hear secretary. >> of state rubio. >> behind closed. >> doors, try. >> to reassure europeans. >> that maybe u.s. >> policy not. >> changing as much as their. >> positioning publicly. but that's basically joe that has has left, you know, allies and. adversaries like. >> sort of bewildered. >> but at the end of. >> the. >> day, this. >> is donald trump's decision. >> and let's. >> remember, it's very. reminiscent of the. >> first term. >> where trump. >> publicly very. friendly towards putin. >> but the administration and

the congress at. >> times took. >> steps to punish russia. >> we'll have to see if that. >> happens. >> around this time, too. >> you know. >> certainly. senator tillis breaking. >> with the white house. >> yesterday saying. >> publicly what. so many of his colleagues are saying privately. others have. >> been very much more. >> modest in their criticism. >> saying they disagree with the idea that. putin is a good guy but not willing to actually criticize. >> trump for what he's saying. >> we're going. >> to have. >> to see. this time, though. >> if the guardrails hold well. >> this time. >> trump pushes through. >> and says. >> look. you know, this is our. >> new approach to moscow. >> and europe. >> and again. we really. >> had a. >> tale of two administrations in. >> the first term. >> it's so important for people to remember. >> that in the first. >> administration, you have donald trump. >> saying things like he said at the helsinki press conference in. >> 2018, in response. >> to your question. >> that he. >> trusted vladimir. >> putin more than they own his own. >> people, that he put. >> in to run the intel community. >> at the. >> same time. >> his vice president was going

to western europe, delivering speeches that were reagan esque, anti soviet, anti-russian, anti-russian aggression. you you, of course, also had republicans. >> in the senate. >> at the same. >> time when donald. >> trump was saying things that caused grave concerns. >> among many republicans. >> they were passing the toughest sanctions that had ever been passed on russia. so we'll see if this is. >> an opening bid. >> we'll see if you, in fact, have have russians. having to actually step up. and make sacrifices at the negotiating. table if. >> they want it to end. >> or whether this is, again, a radical. >> new step. >> a radical. >> new direction for the. >> united states foreign policy, regardless the cost, the impact of that on our foreign policy, even. >> if it. >> is, even if it's reeled. >> back in in. >> the next week and there's no reason to believe it would be, is. >> incalculable. >> incalculable, and will. >> once again.

>> have our allies, our closest allies, our most. >> important allies. >> asking the question. can we trust the united states of america? elizabeth, i. >> just again, one other thing, too, that i don't think people are underlining enough. i know we've. >> talked about it a little bit on this show, but all things are personal. >> with donald trump. foreign policy. >> is personal. >> with donald trump. if he decides that he likes. the most. >> bloodthirsty dictator on. >> earth in north. >> korea and they write love letters, he calls them love letters. it everything is personal. and it's so. >> important to remember how. >> donald trump's relationship with zelensky began. >> it began. >> in july. >> of 2019 when he made the. >> quote, perfect. >> phone call. >> as he said. >> where. >> you know, he was. >> trying to shake down. zelensky to dig up dirt on his political rival. joe biden and his family while he was in the middle of. a presidential campaign and basically saying, you can get your $400 million that congress. >> has already appropriated. but before you do, i need. >> you. >> to dig up dirt. on joe biden.

zelensky refused. >> to do that. >> and if some if people. >> want to understand. >> why he loathes zelensky. >> so much. >> that's a good. place to start. >> yes. >> and then, of. >> course, zelensky made the great mistake of actually saying. the truth, which is that donald trump was in a web of disinformation. and, you know, i'm sure trump just was. shocked % >> most critical. >> thing that zelensky. >> has ever said of. >> trump in public. and so then you got the backlash from trump saying that that zelensky basically started. the war. >> i think it's interesting. >> especially marco rubio's role. >> here, though, that he. >> is what he was saying to. >> the europeans. >> in a call after. trump sidled up to. >> to, to. >> to putin, was that, you. >> know. >> you know, keep calm. this is not a major change in the administration's policy. >> of course. >> it is. and it of course it is. against what zelensky what what rubio himself. >> he's very, very. >> he's a big russia hawk. >> so it's if you're.

>> a. european and. >> you're seeing this, you hear from one hand from the commander in chief that we're going to be closer to russia. on the other hand, you hear from the secretary of state, pay. >> no attention. >> you're in a state of confusion. and i can. >> tell you, i. >> think most europeans are going. >> to pay attention to. >> what the president is saying and not what the secretary of state is saying. >> yeah. >> one diplomat from europe telling me already damage already been done. >> in terms of relations. >> and certainly all signs. >> suggest this will be a new policy from the united states. >> much more on ukraine ahead. but now let's turn to. >> matters here. >> at home. >> a federal. >> judge has ruled. >> that the trump administration can move. >> ahead with plans to. >> significantly reduce. >> the federal workforce. >> the lawsuit was brought by a group of labor unions. >> seeking to. >> block the administration. from carrying out mass. >> layoffs at. >> federal agencies. >> in his ruling. >> the judge overseeing case. >> explained that trump's onslaught of executive actions have. caused disruption and. >> even chaos in widespread quarters. >> of american. >> society, but added that.

federal court. >> was not the appropriate. >> venue for the lawsuit. meanwhile, more than. 200 employees at the transportation security administration were fired this week as part of the trump administration's. >> sweeping layoffs. >> the tsa confirms that 243. probationary employees, who had. >> been either hired. >> or promoted within the year, have. >> now been terminated. >> in a. >> statement, a tsa. >> spokesperson wrote. >> in part this under. >> president trump's leadership. >> tsa terminated personnel due to performance and conduct. issues during their probationary period. >> there's more. the irs. >> has also now begun firing employees. roughly 7000 workers in washington, d.c. and. >> elsewhere across the country. >> have been let go. the layoffs, which come, of course, in the middle of tax season, affect. probationary employees with roughly one year or less of service. >> at the agency. >> the ranking member of the senate finance committee, ron wyden, said yesterday that the layoffs are already having an

impact. >> i can tell you it's already taking a significant toll. i'm particularly concerned about refunds. as the ranking democrat on the senate finance committee. we focus on services to taxpayers, and i'm very concerned about the possible delay in refunds. >> i mean, you know, anybody that's. >> ever dealt. >> with the irs and understand calling them for any reason understands that most of those workers. >> there have. >> such a backlog. >> it takes so. long to get in touch with, with, with agents because they just don't have enough workers. they're also. working with data, and. >> they're working on computers that in many. cases are. >> decades old. >> their technology. >> is absolutely horrific. >> and at the end of. >> the day, of course, you know, maybe politicians. want to. paint the irs as the bad guys. and because they. >> audited donald trump too much, donald trump would. say in the end of the day, it is working americans trying to.

>> get their refund. it's middle class. >> americans trying to get the refunds they can't afford. you know, the. >> lawyers are are whatever. >> millionaires and billionaires can afford to take care. of their problems with the irs. >> it's going to be. working class. >> and middle. >> class taxpayers who. >> are going to be impacted. >> by this. >> and you can go down the line whether you look at the cuts at tsa, you really cutting tsa. that's going to make lines longer for americans waiting to go to travel back home. >> to visit. >> their families, to visit. >> their. >> loved ones. >> to work. >> week in and week out. all of these cuts. >> that. >> again, come from a small part of america's budget, about 10% of america's budget. >> all of. >> these cuts are going. >> to cause a disproportionate. impact with. >> working americans. >> with, with, with. >> people, again, that can't afford. >> lawyers or. accountants and, and.

>> and. >> you know. >> especially when you start talking about messing. >> with, with safety. >> of. of flying. i mean, it's just crazy. >> so, i. >> mean, this. >> sort of shoot first politically ask. questions later politically. so it's i. >> think i think it really makes life more difficult and more. >> dangerous for the. >> americans who can. >> afford it the least. >> and of course, that's the concern that democrats especially, are trying to highlight here, the fact that these are not cuts that have no impact. they are cuts at the irs. we will start hearing those rolling stories of the backlogs of the folks who are not able to get their tax refunds in a timely fashion. we're at the we're in the we're in the stretch of tax season right now. we're going to get to the end of it and then we'll start hearing those. but you're right to bring up the transportation safety authority. you're right to bring up matters at the faa. we talked about the impacts of all of these cuts across the nih, the

impact of usaid being lost on the world stage. all of these things have long tales and long threads. and i think what's so notable is my sources have told me that lawmakers who spent time at home this week hearing from their constituents about it, and now we're starting to see it actually on camera as reporters go to some of these town halls, including in places like georgia, where i'll bring you into this next story, republican lawmaker rich mccormick faced an angry crowd during a town hall in his georgia district last night. many of his constituents lashed out at him for his support. of those massive federal layoffs and budget cuts by the trump administration and elon musk's doge. the event was held about 20 miles from cdc headquarters, where the trump administration removed 1300 employees so far. atlanta journal constitution reporter and nbc news contributor greg bluestein attended the town hall and captured these events as they unfolded. in one instance, an attendee questioned why the conservative party was taking such a sloppy approach to the

situation. watch. >> cdc workers working on. >> the bird flu, being fired by d.o.j. and then. having to be rehired. >> when someone realizes. >> oh. >> gosh. >> we need those people. >> why? >> why is a supposedly conservative party taking. >> such a radical. >> and extremist. >> and sloppy. >> approach. >> to this? >> wow. >> a lot of the work they do is. >> duplicitous with ai. >> once again, one of. >> the problems we. >> have. no, no. >> i happen. >> to be. a doctor. >> i know a few things. if we continue. >> to grow the size of. >> government and we can't afford. >> it. >> it's going to have. >> shortfalls in. >> your medicare, medicaid. >> social security. >> and other things that we can't afford. >> guys, we have to make some decisions. i understand. >> trying to do more with less. that's reasonable. what's not reasonable. >> is taking this. >> chainsaw approach, which they. obviously admit when they fired these people and then decided. >> oh, we. >> fired the wrong people. >> we got to bring. >> them. back in. >> why is this being jammed down

the pipe so rushed and. >> sloppily so. >> yeah. >> a chainsaw approach. notable, given what we saw at cpac, where elon musk literally brought a chainsaw on stage. but look, you can see the crowd there clapping that attendees for that attendees question. and here's how mccormick then responded before the crowd interrupted him. >> saying is, when you say you have this many employees that you have to cut, that organization decides who. they're going to cut. >> now, they. >> may. >> not. any numbers. >> did you catch that last part? a resident said it was actually elon musk that's making the decisions when it comes to job cuts. one attendee told the lawmaker he'd done a disservice and failed to stand up for his constituents. well, no. mccormick handily won reelection last year. he won by 64.9% of the vote in this district, in a state that president trump flipped after narrowly losing it to joe biden in 2020. so, joe, it's not like he's in some blue sea. he's in his home district

that handily reelected him. >> yeah, and i will say. i remember back when we. actually shut down the government. >> to try to negotiate. >> to balance the budget. >> that's what our town hall meetings started looking like quickly. >> and the. >> most conservative districts across america. >> and gene, i just. >> i just have to. >> i just have. >> to correct. >> the congressman here. >> because i'm afraid it's. >> a line. that they've been given, maybe by the republican party to say that's just not accurate. >> where he's. >> talking about. we have to cut nih research. we have to cut. >> air safety. we have to cut food safety. we have to cut, you. >> know. >> nuclear safety. we have to do all of these. >> other things or else. oh my. >> gosh. >> you're not going to get your medicare. >> and social security checks.

well. >> the fact. >> is. >> none of this money is going to touch on that. as i've said time and again, we're $36 trillion in debt. that $36 trillion is driven by pentagon spending by massive tax cuts. it's driven by medicare. it's driven by medicaid. it's driven by interest on the debt. our interest on the debt is. >> larger than any of these things that they're talking. >> about cutting right now. and what are they doing? at the same time, he says, we have to make choices. >> there they. >> are about to pass. >> the biggest tax cuts ever for billionaires and for millionaires. that's the. >> choice they've made. this is not about protecting medicare or medicaid. >> or social security. >> this is about protecting tax. >> cuts for billionaires. >> and that's. >> not ideological. just look at what the cbo is saying. just

look at. >> what the budget. >> office is. >> saying, jane. >> so there, there. >> and he's saying, oh, i'm trying to protect your medicare. that's why. >> we're slashing. medical research. >> we're trying to protect your. >> social security. that's why we're slashing air safety. >> we're trying to protect. >> you know, the food that you eat and the air that. >> you breathe and the water. the water that you drink. >> that because we're. >> trying to protect. your medicare and medicaid and social security. no, no, that's not what they're trying to do. they're trying to clear the clear. >> all of this good work, this work that. >> americans need. >> middle class. >> americans like the people at that town hall meeting, need for tax cuts for the richest americans. >> that's exactly what they're clearing the decks for. and this is this is essentially in the context of the federal government. this is a this is a show. this is a this is a performance. you could cut every nonmilitary federal government employee, every one of them, and

you'd save something like 3% of the budget. so it is ridiculous. yet they are setting the stage for these massive tax cuts that are only going to swell the deficit. and any way you look at it, the most favorable sort of figures to the administration of the outcome of this is at least 3 or $4 trillion added to the debt over the course of, of, of a few years. and that's the truth. >> so let's right now bring in the aforementioned greg bluestein, who was there last night in georgia, shot the video we just saw. greg, good to see you. thanks for joining us this morning. good reporting. so tell us more about the scene in that town hall and the mood from these constituents. as noted in a pretty safe republican district, talking about the trump must cuts.

>> yeah. >> this is a safe republican district. and richard mccormick won with about two thirds of the vote just last year. but there's been a lot of talk about how there hasn't been the same amount of democratic outrage that there was, you know, at this point in donald trump's first term, this is the first moment where i kind of really felt it on the ground here in georgia. you know, there was a sense of bubbling outrage that really reminded me some of the tea party backlash we saw, you know, 15 years ago or so at town hall meetings targeting democrats and more moderate, more mainstream republicans. rich mccormick is not a, you know, your traditional maga firebrand. he's no marjorie taylor greene here in georgia. he does sit next door to her district, in a sense, but he is a trump supporter. he ended up endorsing ron desantis last yea, but wound up in trump's camp. and like every other major prominent republican in georgia, is very aligned with with donald trump's platform and agenda. so here you saw him struggling at

times throughout this hour long meeting where he was jeered, where he was booed. there was some mild applause here and there, but for the most part, this was a bubbling outrage directed at him. you know, holding him accountable for donald trump's first steps. hey, greg. >> it's. >> sam stein. >> i'm kind of. curious from your. surveying of the. >> crowd how much anger. >> because obviously there was. >> palpable anger there. >> but. >> how. >> much anger was. >> directed at. >> donald trump and. >> how much. >> anger was directed at elon musk? i asked because. >> there is a. distinction that. >> i'm picking. >> up. >> especially in these constituent letters that. >> are going out to congressmen. >> who are then. >> responding. >> saying, oh. >> i'm protesting. >> against elon. >> musk. >> but they. don't say the. >> same thing with. >> respect to. >> donald trump. >> so i'm. >> wondering if. >> there is a distinction. >> in how the. >> crowd is reacting. >> and if you. >> think it. >> matters politically. >> yeah. first, i do think it matters politically. and for democrats in particular, it's been easier here in georgia, at least, to attack elon musk than donald trump because donald trump won the state. and there

is a there's also a sense of overwhelm, fatigue over donald trump. where elon musk is newer to the scene. and there was a lot of that. that backlash focused on elon musk when the doge questions came up. that was where there was some of the loudest uproar, especially over rich mccormick's answers, where he was saying, well, it's up to the agencies to decide who to cut instead of instead of elon musk. and where we know there's a lot of there's a lack of transparency there. there's a lot of clouds over, you know, how f the extent of these cuts have gone and particularly when it comes to georgia. right. in some sense, you know, a lot of these cuts have been more ephemeral. they have not really touched our home state. but when last week, when the cdc ended up cutting about a thousand or so employees in the heart of atlanta, that was something that a democrats rallied around. but b, also we're seeing general voters, you know, some of the folks who are in that room, you know, were not engaged in the election last year, and they're

now getting up to speed. >> i mean, again, we're we're. >> talking show that. >> picture of elon musk again. if you will. i mean. >> i just. >> he might as well just send that to democrats for the 2026 campaign. where he's holding up a chainsaw and very proud that working americans. >> are actually. >> having their medical research cut. working americans. >> are actually having. cdc cut with a possibility of a major. >> epidemic sweeping across the country where tsa is getting cut. so lines to visit their family members longer. >> possibly less. >> safe getting on airplanes. air safety also being cut. you know, again, i know of what. >> i speak. >> elizabeth. >> because. >> you know, in 94, when i campaigned, i campaigned with a lot of people and they were always talking. i was talking about we got to balance the budget. >> we got. >> to pay down the debt. >> yes. go, joe. go. we got to

do this. we got to do that. the second we started to do that, the people that were. >> out on the front lines were going, wait, what are you doing? you do realize that when you cut this, the naval air museum is going to be shut down for three months. you do understand when you cut that the va benefits aren't going to be flowing the same way. you know, i had a guy yesterday come up to me. >> and say. >> that his access to the va hospital and the treatment that he had. >> is. >> is going in in south. florida is now now at risk. and he's getting letters. this is this is a sort of thing that again, you can talk generally about balancing the budget. you can talk generally about reducing. >> the workforce. >> and again we're talking about from. >> what amounts to. >> about 910% of the budget. but when those cuts, that general idea turns into specific cuts that impact working americans and middle class americans. boy.

you have scenes like the congressman had last night. and i suspect we'll start seeing much like we did in 2009 when barack obama. >> started to. >> roll out the. >> possibility that americans. >> may not. >> be able. >> to visit their own doctor anymore. if the aca passed. >> yes. >> and i actually, that that photograph. >> of elon. >> musk with the chainsaw and the hat and the sunglasses, that's political. that's a political problem for the administration. but i just wanted to ask greg if he's still on. is greg still on? yes. about about how. >> much. >> you you alluded to this. i this meeting was very close to the cdc and how that must be a big factor in the in the emotions in that area because it's an employer and also i'm sure it's, it's, it's they're very proud to have it close by. tell me tell me. >> about that. >> i mean that that must have

been a big factor. >> exactly. it's one of the jewels of georgia, right? and it's something that brings these cuts home to residents here. you know, again, it seemed distant sometimes when you hear about federal workers elsewhere in the country, especially in washington, being cut. but when about a thousand cdc employees were cut over the weekend, right, with with emails and zoom calls, and i've talked to some of those employees who were cut and others who fear that they're next, who just described, you know, the somber, awful reality for them right now. these are people who've dedicated their lives to public health and public service, and they were just cut like that in a flash. high paying jobs that are going to be hard to replicate in the private sector or in any other public sector. so it really. >> you know. >> finish up, greg. >> oh, i just said it. >> really. >> it really, really hit home. and you're seeing republicans struggle here in georgia. governor kemp the other day said, hey, sometimes, you know, there needs to be some

rightsizing in the federal government. and there's already a lot of backlash here in georgia to that statement as well. >> all right. political reporter. >> for the atlanta journal constitution, greg bluestein, thank you so much. i think i think what stuck out to me was. >> the fact. >> that constituents. >> who obviously. want government right sized. >> and obviously want a more efficient government. >> are talking about the reckless, radical, sloppy is the word sloppy way. >> this is being done, being done in a way that no business would do, no, no. >> effective ceo. would do. >> where you go in and. >> cut first. >> and ask questions later. and in so doing. getting rid. >> of some of your most. >> qualified, hardest workers. >> it's often said. >> that government is not a meritocracy. well. >> this is actually. proving that, but not. >> in the. way that elon musk

and donald trump wanted it to be proven. they're getting rid of some of. >> their best workers. >> some of their most qualified people. >> people that actually run. >> some of the. most important functions at agencies and then having to desperately call some and try to get them back. >> at work. >> as a member of congress said. on our show a few. days ago. >> measure twice, cut once. >> still ahead on morning joe. we'll get to sam's new reporting with the title the doge brain drain has begun. also had we're going to get a live report from berlin as german voters prepare to elect a new government that will be central in europe's response to donald trump's policies on the world stage. this is going to be a remarkable, remarkable election this weekend, and we're going to see where germany goes, which could actually lead the way to where france and so much of

europe follows. you're watching morning joe. we're back in 90s. morning joe. we're back in 90s. >> out here in the fields. dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye: too much tear evaporation. for relief that's ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ remove contact lenses before using miebo. wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur. ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ ask your eye doctor about prescription miebo. it all started with a small business idea. it's a pillow with a speaker in it! that's right craig. pulling in the perfect team to get the job done. i'm just here for the internets. at&t, it's super-fast! you locked us out?! and when thrown a curveball... arrggghh! ahhhh! [crashing sounds] we had everything we needed.

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>> article for. >> the bulwark is titled the doge brain drain has begun. and in it, you write this in part, in the first month of the second trump administration, the world's richest man under-informed chronically online and staffed by a courtier of teenage and 20 something former engineering interns, has been moving at warp speed to reshape, reduce and even dismantle the united states government. but while. musk's rampage has been feverishly covered, the scope of its impact remains largely underappreciated. experts say it can't be measured in weeks or months, or even in government services affected. rather, it will be felt over the span of decades and defined in. >> metrics like intellectual talent lost. dozens of. interviews with top researchers revealed a persistent. overbearing fear. >> that the united states. >> is at the. >> starting point of a. >> massive brain drain. >> young researchers. >> hoping to. >> find new treatment for cancer. dementia or other

diseases. >> may find that. with government funding curtailed. >> they may never get the opportunity. areas of. >> scientific investigation will. >> be cut. >> off as the trump administration. >> discourages or. >> outright prohibits funding. >> for certain. >> fields of research. >> and sam. >> i give you credit. you've been really good at highlighting the impact. >> a lot of. >> these cuts. >> doing so on. >> your. >> twitter account, but. >> also putting this. piece together. so talk to us about the big picture here, not. >> just. >> the immediate. we just spent. >> last. >> segment about how there's going to be immediate impacts, painful impacts for. >> a lot of people, red. >> and blue state residents alike. but the. larger picture, how this is. >> going to fundamentally. >> reshape the. >> united states does. >> well, remind. >> me first, where do i venmo you for reading that? >> yeah. >> how much. >> do i read? >> it's a reasonable fee. we'll talk afterwards. >> look, we spent. >> the last segment. >> talking about. >> all these cuts, and we talked about. >> it in. >> the context of the. >> government services that will. >> be rendered. >> obsolete or inoperable. and really, the story of the. >> first month of the trump. >> administration is that but also the lives. >> that are actually going to be

upended. >> so when you're talking about probationary employees that were probationary, it has a bad connotation. >> what it really means. >> is people. >> who are just. >> starting out in their government jobs. but it doesn't. >> necessarily mean just young people, right? it could. >> be switching. >> to a new job. and you've just started out there. >> and these. people tend to. >> be starting. >> their careers. having young. >> families entering fields. >> of research. >> for which there are not really. >> comparable private enterprise opportunities. >> and that. >> is. >> predominantly true in the fields. >> of science. >> and so what happened. >> is. >> early on. >> the nih. specifically put. >> a cap on. >> indirect costs. and indirect costs. >> are those administrative. >> costs that go into funding. >> research buildings, you. >> know. >> scientific equipment, things like that. >> and when that happened, something. >> really remarkable. >> took place. a number of. >> different universities, institutions. >> said, oh my god, we're about to lose hundreds of millions of dollars. >> and 1 or. >> 2. >> specifically said. >> we can no. >> longer hire graduate. >> assistant researchers. now think. about that. >> people who you really need. >> to come. >> in. >> and staff. >> you and. grow as scientists.

>> they were no longer able. >> to get. >> those opportunities. >> at different research institutions. what does that mean for us as a society? it means a whole generation. >> of young scientists. >> people who. >> will make advancements. >> in critical medical fields won't actually be able to take that first step. and so when you talk to scientists. >> around. >> the country. researchers around. >> the country. >> this is what shocks them. >> it's this idea. >> that we are actually taking our best and brightest and saying, no, no, no, we're not going to support you. you have to look elsewhere. >> now, some might say, well. >> okay, sure. >> there's other opportunities, right? why not go to the private sector. >> and that just. >> doesn't work because the private sector is consumed with. >> funding things. >> that will make a profit. >> and so. >> long term. >> high risk. but very. >> important research will. >> not be done by private. sector companies. >> it has to be done by the government. and then. >> they say, well, why. >> not. >> go, you. >> know. >> into another field? >> well, no, they've. >> devoted themselves to this field. >> so the only. >> real opportunities people have is to either leave government, leave. >> science. >> or go overseas. >> and that's.

>> already what's happening. >> yeah. you know, i can't emphasize enough the, the role that that these universities, these, these institutions play in, in basic research in. human beings learning stuff that we didn't know about the human body, about the universe, that that has absolutely no immediate application, but that ten years from now, 20 years from now creates the, you know, the information revolution or, i mean, this is the way it works. and i've been in touch with, you know, some people. >> i know at. >> universities that are trying to deal with this cut. and they are they are struggling as hard as they can to, you know, to be able to continue the way they and they just can't figure it out. >> and so either. >> you stop. >> hiring graduate. >> research assistants or you stop hiring faculties, or you stop doing the research

entirely. and to your point, gene, like even the private sector, these companies that do biomedical research, they are dependent. >> on nih. >> funded research to do their own research. and so when you cut off the nih spigot like. >> this, it has profound impacts. >> and frankly. >> let's be honest. >> a lot of what we fund for the nih. >> doesn't end up. >> working out. but that's the point, is that you. take as many. >> shots as. >> you can, because at. >> some point. >> you will create the most. >> important breakthrough. >> scientifically. >> and the government. >> can do that. >> process of trial and error will do. >> it. in a way. >> that. >> a private. >> sector won't. yeah. >> joe, this. >> is. >> something it's really. >> important conversation. >> they're going to be impacts. >> short and long term. >> well there. >> are and you know so many people when they you know, maybe maybe some people who supported donald trump. >> maybe some people who. >> are supporting these cuts, slashing. of the funding for. some of this research for universities may be thinking, oh. this is great. harvard, yale, stanford, basically all the colleges that that. >> that jd. >> vance and, and, and other

leaders of the maga movement went to, they'll be cut first. the fact is. >> the. disproportionate cuts, the cuts where there. >> won't be. >> like, you know. >> billions of dollars flooding in from ■donors will come at places like my alma. >> mater. >> university of alabama. so much of university of alabama's explosive growth over. >> over the years. >> and it it it's just been explosive growth. i go back and i don't even recognize the college. it's remarkable what's happened sam over. >> the past. >> decade over. >> the. >> past 20 years there i will say in. >> part because of richard shelby and other democratic senators that have worked really hard. >> to make alabama a top notch, whether it's in engineering, whether it's in medical research that's going and suddenly you have people like katie britt. was who was all in line for donald trump and all in line. for these cuts and all in line

for doe suddenly understanding that the largest employer in alabama is now at risk because, again, of the indiscriminate cuts that will end up hurting harvard, hurting yale hurt, but also hurting university of alabama, indiana, you name it, state schools, especially iowa, wisconsin. they will be disproportionately impacted by these cuts. >> yeah. >> just very quickly. you're 100% right. the anecdote i talked. >> about, about the. >> university that. >> was going to start restricting. >> hiring graduate research assistants. >> that was the. >> university of iowa. >> university of iowa. it wasn't yale. it wasn't harvard, wasn't stanford. it was university of iowa. >> this is happening at state schools. every state school across the country. >> all right. german voters. >> are set this. >> weekend to head to the polls. >> for their. >> federal elections. their voters are going to choose their representatives in parliament. and those elected will then vote for a new chancellor of germany for that role. there are four major candidates that spread the

entire political spectrum of the country. let's bring in right now from berlin, nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez raf. >> this is easily. >> the. >> most watched european election, at least since france is a few years ago, when there were great fears that le pen and her far right party was going to do well. right now it looks like the center right party may be doing may be doing okay. the christian democrats, but adf not far behind. tell us all about it. >> yeah. jo. >> so at. >> first glance this very much looks like a normal election in germany. you have an unpopular government here. it's led by the center left. it's presiding. over a bad economy. germany has been in recession. >> for. >> two years, and it looks. >> like the. >> voters are going. to chuck them out. and they're going to replace them with a government led by the center right. >> the cdu.

>> angela merkel's old party. >> a traditional. >> transatlantic party. they are supporters of ukraine. >> but joe. >> what is not normal is that the far right is absolutely. surging in a way we. >> have not seen since the. >> defeat of. >> the. >> nazis in the second world war. the polls show the. >> alternative for germany, known as the afd. likely to. >> win the second. largest number of seats in parliament to be. >> the largest. >> opposition party. and that. >> is sending shockwaves absolutely. >> through this country. >> now. the. afd is. >> running on a platform of populism that will sound. >> pretty familiar. they are talking about. >> making germany great again, talking about restoring. >> manufacturing, talking about cutting immigration. >> that is. >> a message that is resonating here. >> especially in the wake of several. recent attacks. >> committed by. >> asylum seekers. committed by migrants. one of them just. >> a week ago. >> in munich. what the afd does have, though. >> joe. >> is an unusual advantage.

>> the explicit. >> support of elon musk, the world's richest man, a very prominent figure in the trump administration. as you have just been discussing, he has openly endorsed the afd. he has spoken at one of their conferences. >> and he. >> has been boosting the party all across. >> his social. >> media platform. x now. >> joe. >> you will, of course, recognize where we are here in berlin this morning. we are at the iconic brandenburg gate. that is where president reagan gave that famous speech. mr. gorbachev. tear down this wall. last week, vice president vance, another republican, was here in germany at the munich security conference. >> and he gave a speech. >> about tearing down a wall. he said that germany's mainstream parties needed to abandon the principle known as the firewall. the firewall is the idea that the parties of the center left parties of the center right do not cooperate with the far right. given this country's history. of nazism, that was a.

speech that absolutely stunned main street. >> but it was music. >> to the. >> ears of the afd. >> they basically interpreted it as a stamp of legitimacy directly from the white house. a message from the trump administration to german voters that it was okay to vote for the far right. >> and we spoke to. >> a parliamentary candidate for the afd. i want you to take a listen to what she told us about vance's speech. >> it allows. >> them to think what they actually feel. >> i think they're. >> just open a door. i don't think it influenced. >> anybody. >> but i think i do. >> think that that it's. >> allowed a mind. >> shift, maybe. >> or just an. >> yeah, it just i think people are. >> now they feel. free to actually vote for what they always wanted to vote for. >> so you heard her there basically. >> saying that vice president. >> vance gave german voters a permission structure to vote for the far right. the vice

president also met with the leader of the afd while he was here in germany. she's kind. >> of an interesting figure. >> her name is alice weidel. she talks about. traditional family values. she talks about cutting immigration. she is actually also married to a woman, that woman born in sri lanka. so this is not. in some ways. >> a traditional. >> figure of the hard right. joe, germans go to the polls here on sunday. we expect to get exit polls around noon. >> eastern. >> and the whole world. >> will. >> really be watching. jeff. >> all right. nbc's raf sanchez, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. and just to understand what's happening in europe right now, it's actually something that we've been talking about on this show for a very long time. after the syrian civil war and the refugee crisis, there are a lot of countries, including germany, that took a lot of immigrants in. and while the united states has throughout the years absorbed immigrants very well

better than most countries, it has caused a real political backlash as it as it has. donald trump has made it in the united states recently, but certainly has in france, in germany and other countries. and so that's that's what you're you're seeing there as well, elizabeth, though i it does raise the question, though, whether american politicians getting involved in german politics in such an aggressive way actually ends up helping the, the adf. is it it's the afd. yeah. the afd, whether it ends up helping the far right parties there or whether it ends up hurting them, you look at what's happening in canada. before donald trump got elected, conservatives were up by 20 plus points. now it's pretty much deadlocked in canada because canadians are pushing back against donald trump. and

others, sort of, you know, coming in and trying to tilt the election. i'm wondering if that has an impact in germany and other countries as well. >> well, i think we heard. >> from the from the member of the afd who said that this gave the germans a permission structure to vote for the afd, which is. stunning. i mean, i you know, the united states is not supposed to get involved in other countries elections, for starters. but secondly, to get involved in this way is i don't know what to say. my mother grew up in nazi occupied denmark. so this is something that was part of my growing up about the german occupation of denmark. and it's, it's stunning to see how how well the afd is doing in germany now, obviously, as the result of, of the immigration of, of the poor economy, this is what happens. but i it's still

quite stunning. and, you know, they they obviously feel greatly empowered by the united states and by, by elon musk, who was we saw it was looming large over there, like an oz like figure at one of their conventions or one of their gatherings. so and obviously, this was completely shocking to the europeans. again, we've i've spoken to europeans this week in washington who are stunned by what what the vice president did and quite taken aback. >> well, and we will see gene robinson again, whether that has a positive impact or not. i will say again, france is not germany. both countries would tell you that many times over. but i will say we have heard the last two elections that le pen was going to give macron a run for his money. macron was extraordinarily unpopular. the backlash, though, against le pen ended up instead of, you know, the race being 5050 or 51, 49, you know, macron ended up at 58,

59% in both of the races he had against le pen. we don't know what's going to happen here. you know, we the far right could actually shock everybody. we could also be surprised in the other direction. i guess what i'm saying is whenever, whenever these far right wing parties are involved, nobody exactly knows what voters are going to do when they go into the booth. and certainly after the united states, the vice president and elon musk have both weighed in in such a heavy, heavy way. i'm not so sure that germans are canadians or the french or anybody will take that sort of lying down. >> i'm not sure they will because they have that, that, that memory that, that elizabeth talked about of world war two. and, and so heading, you know, full steam toward the far right, it seems we'll we'll see we'll see. what strikes me is how how unstable politics are in, in

europe, across europe right now. that is a good situation for vladimir putin. it's a bad situation for ukraine. i think it's a bad situation for the world. >> and we'll. >> be watching the results of those elections. >> out. >> of germany. new york. >> times writer at large and the bulwark. >> sam stein. >> thank you. >> both for being here. >> this morning. >> coming up. >> next, canada. >> tops team. >> usa on the ice to claim the four. >> nations face. >> off title. what a game this was. >> but the political. >> rivalry between. >> the two countries. >> continues heats up. we'll show you the very. >> snarky response. >> from canadian. >> prime minister justin trudeau. >> plus. >> let me ask you, is there anybody like our tiger? >> how are you? >> he's the greatest. would you want to just say a couple of words, tiger? he doesn't. he's much. more comfortable. tied. >> they're tied. >> i was. >> in the.

>> room for that yesterday. and we'll. >> explain what tiger woods was doing at. >> the white house, and what it means. >> for the proposed merger between the pga tour and. the saudi funded liv golf. >> pablo torre. >> joins us to. talk about. >> all of. >> that and the. >> latest out of mlb. >> spring training. >> mercifully, baseball is back. >> mercifully, baseball is back. morning, joe, (morgan) we're all looking for someplace to call home. but first, you need a place to look for a place to call home. and that's homes-dot-com. because it's the best. (lawyer) i told you, you cannot legally say homes-dot-com is the best! (luke) what if she says it, as morgan freeman? (marci) homes-dot—hold on, i can get this. homes-dot-com. (lawyer) no. (luke) well, how can we not say it... if that's our new name?! (lawyer) i give up. (luke) homes-dot-com-is-the- best-dot-com. got eyelid itching, crusties and swelling that won't go away? it could be... demodex blepharitis! and we're demodex mites. we're very common and super irritating to your eyelids...

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pack today. just call 88844. >> stay dry. >> welcome back. time now for a look at some of the other stories. >> making headlines. >> this morning. the major. stock indexes slid yesterday

after walmart. >> announced a. >> weak earnings forecast. the major. >> retailer is. >> predicting sales. >> will only grow about 3 to. >> 4%. >> this year, which. >> is below the. >> 5% investors were hoping for. >> officials say. >> this may be because of uncertainties related to consumer behavior. and global economic and. geopolitical conditions, including those right here at home. meanwhile, the vatican says that. >> pope. >> francis is improving. >> and now even doing. >> some work. >> the pope was hospitalized last week for double pneumonia. the vatican released an update this morning saying that the 88 year old pontiff slept through the night. >> ate breakfast. >> took some calls. >> and. moved around his hospital. good news there. and the u.s. postal service is honoring. >> the life and. >> legacy of the actress betty white. >> and doing so with a new stamp. the collectible forever stamp will be released on march 27th. >> white. >> often referred to as the first lady of. >> television, had a career.

>> in the entertainment. industry that spanned. more than 60 years. betty white passed away. >> in 2021. she was 99. >> years old. >> still ahead. here, we'll. >> go over. >> the highlights. >> from day one at. >> cpac, where elon musk swung a. chainsaw as thousands of. federal workers. across the. >> country are getting fired. >> semaphores. >> dave weigel, who was in the room for all that, will. >> join us. >> for the recap. >> on that and. >> much more. also ahead, the chair of. the democratic party of wisconsin. >> ben wikler. >> will weigh. >> in on musk's influence on his. >> state's supreme. >> court race. >> and why. >> it really matters. morning joe will be right back. >> our restaurant's been in business for 17 years. american technology and innovation are a part of everything we do, from helping us attract new customers to facilitating deliveries through websites and apps. i'm

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>> relief that does not fade. >> be wise. all take. >> xyzal at night. >> matthews one of the best in. the league. >> mcdavid under. >> 50% for the regular season, but he won 12 out of 14. in their opener. >> and he won that.

>> one and got a shot off. centering pass mcdavid scores. >> connor mcdavid wins it for canada. >> connor mcdavid, the best. >> player on the planet. >> delivers the four nations title with that. >> game winning goal in overtime, and he lifts. >> canada to a32. victory over. >> the united states in last night's final. that marks the end, well, at least for now. >> of a. >> renewed rivalry on the ice stoked by president donald trump's. >> tariff threats. >> and. >> comments about. >> canada becoming. >> the united states. >> 51st state. >> but that. >> rivalry was. >> on full display last night in boston, where the crowd at the. >> td garden. >> booed during. >> the singing of the canadian. >> national anthem, which is the same thing done at sporting events across. canada in recent weeks. during the sounding of the star-spangled banner. but last night's rendition of o canada. >> was a. >> bit different. >> as the singer made a subtle change to the lyrics in protest of. trump's recent remarks.

instead of singing the line true patriot love in all of us command, she sang true patriot love that only us command. the singer's representative confirmed it was not a flub. and then she posted a photo of the modified lyric written on her hand. she put that up on social media. she referred to that while singing. meanwhile, prime minister justin trudeau added fuel to his ongoing political rivalry with the new trump administration, writing on social media after canada's win you can't take our country and. >> you can't. >> take our game. so, joe. this this hockey tournament. really took on a life of its own in the last couple of weeks, bringing in record ratings. fueled. by the political. >> rivalry here that. >> trump has. >> forced upon canada. i've been checking. trump has not yet responded to prime minister trudeau. i think we're. half expecting a bombing run of. >> nova scotia. >> but at least not yet from the

president. on what a win for canada last night. it was such a heightened atmosphere there in boston. >> listen, it's great for espn ratings. it's great for hockey rivalries. it's just terrible for american geopolitics. i mean, it's terrible. i mean, you know, donald trump has done a lot of things in one month, right? but you can now put to the list like americans booing o canada and american hockey players actually being the villains when they go to canada. just just a little reminder here that our dear friends to the north, our dear neighbors to the north, share with us the longest non-militarized border in the world. the advantages that that has provided to us since the war of 1812, which is the last time

there has been an incursion between the two countries, can't be over estimated. let's bring in to talk about geopolitics and the golden goal there. pablo torre finds out a meadowlark media msnbc contributor, pablo torre. pablo, i just laid it out. i mean, what better friends, what better neighbors can you have than the canadians? but the events of the last month have really stoked the fires, and i mean, made this rivalry red hot. talk about it. and what a showdown last night in boston. >> oh, look. >> i stayed up for it. the theater of it. >> even taking. >> out the geopolitics. >> just an incredible invention, right? we're we're sort of as a sports world, we're always looking. >> for a. >> new product. >> that doesn't. >> feel synthetic. >> all star games have always struggled to capture effort and intent. >> and honestly, humiliation. >> and this is an.

>> invention by hockey. >> the four nations. >> cup that delivered. >> on all those fronts. >> now the. geopolitics that you referenced, joe. >> i'm left wondering. >> how is it that the united. >> states is finding itself. >> playing the role of ivan drago in every international sporting contest? now, we. used to be the good guys. and now you. >> have canada, by the way. >> like canada telling canada. >> this is our sport. hockey. you're begging for an. >> uppercut from connor mcdavid. >> you know. >> the celebration of. >> this was. >> not merely donald trump giving the pregame. >> pep talk, which was. >> reportedly half. >> about non. >> hockey stuff. >> like golf. >> which we'll get to in the locker room before the game. it wasn't just about the booing. it was also. >> the. >> idea that. >> wait a minute. >> canada when it comes to hockey, you know. >> again you're. >> spitting into the wind. you're tugging on superman's cape. why are you setting yourself. up for a loss that feels humiliating? and granted, yes, this was a close game. it was incredible game. that goal

in overtime winning it. but but look again, the united states. joe as a geopolitical villain punching down in a way that is just it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't really make sense when you add all of it up with a rational mind. >> you know, pablo, i kind of like it when the whole world roots with us, roots for us. i was reminded last night that this was a 45th anniversary of the second greatest sporting event in my lifetime. of course, the first being 2004. alcs as you knew, pablo was coming back down four zero. but al michaels. al michaels with the call. do you believe in miracles? i can still see that. get chills. tear up. i mean, it was it's remarkable. america as the good guys and the whole world cheering with us as we beat the soviets. it's, you know, we've

got such a great hockey team and we've got we've got such, such great guys on that hockey team. for us to be cast now as a bad guys, because we're saying we want to take over other countries is man, the shoe is on the other foot. and i'll tell you what, i kind of preferred lake placid 1980 to this. >> same felt a little bit better when we had some plausible claim to being the underdog. good guys. and now we're setting ourselves up, joe and john, to be the pinata. to be to be the pinata that is also the villain in ways that. yeah, bring us back also to washington, inevitably in a couple of different ways. >> yeah. i heard yesterday from a few. >> of my. >> friends who are canadian who said. >> you. >> can't be overstated just how the anger in canada towards trump and indeed as. >> you as you. >> just said, pablo, that we become the bad guys in this particular sports movie. >> well, you know, that kind of happens, jonathan, when you say we're going to take over your

country. we want you to. yeah. that does seem like when. >> you call the prime. >> minister, the governor. >> who could have ever seen who could have ever seen this coming? everybody. >> yeah. we take. >> on denmark. >> or panama or. >> many. >> many others. so but sticking with the idea of sports intersecting with geopolitics, golfer tiger woods was back here in washington yesterday joining pga tour commissioner jay monahan and player director adam scott at the white house for a second meeting with president trump, along with the head of saudi arabia's public investment fund, to discuss bridging the deep divide in that sport. spurred by the rise of saudi funded liv golf. woods also attended a black history month reception, with the president wearing the medal of freedom that he had received from trump back in 2019. trump acknowledged their meeting at the event, telling the reporters that we had some, quote, interesting discussions. the pga tour put out a statement on what it described as a working session at the white house, saying, in part thanks to the leadership of president trump, we have initiated a discussion about the reunification of golf. as the

new york times reports, there is hope that a potential merger between the rival golf factions might face less scrutiny by federal regulators under the trump administration. so, pablo, first of all, we'll just note that the white house did hold a black history month event yesterday after his administration canceled similar events through various agencies and has walked away from any federal dei programs. but there's also just to hear the saudi money looms so large. trump avid golfer himself he golfer tiger woods frequently trying to get some sort of deal done. >> yeah he's been talking about this president trump for years. he was saying basically threatening two years ago that everybody who is not on the side of liv golf in favor of reconciliation is going to miss the boat. and the reasons are obvious. you know, after january 6th, 2021, of course, the pga said we can't do business with trump golf courses anymore. and so they became the disloyal party. and so trump welcomed

with open arms, as he is wont to do, the government of saudi arabia, the royal investment fund there. and what happened was he became a direct business partner to liv golf. and for those who don't remember what liv golf is, just keep in mind this is the sportswashing operation for saudi arabia that sought to basically launder the immoral authority of the kingdom by taking american sports as their own. and lots of people, lots of very prominent golfers, took the money. bryson dechambeau, jon rahm, etc. they took the money. and so the fracturing of the sport was underway, and it resulted in liv golf, which was and is a league that is not good, that is not watched, that no one really enjoys, but has the leverage of breaking apart lots of people's favorite thing. and so trump has been saying since he became a business partner of liv joe. hey, reunification. bringing the two together is now something that he wants to make happen. and because of course, uncoincidentally, this would be

very profitable for donald trump, who is about to host his sixth liv golf event in april. and so all of this as as a wise man once said, the answer to all of your questions is money. this is one of those examples where, again, america and saudi arabia, 9/11 families protesting liv tournaments at bedminster in 2022. all of this feels like, wait a minute, which side of this are we on the good guys or the bad guys once again? >> i mean, you look at, well, first of all, so many interesting things about interesting. of course, that that word does a lot. interesting thing about yesterday, one is tiger woods came out strongly against liv. could have made just untold fortunes. billions of dollars. and tiger refused to do it. he remained. he remained faithful to the pga. also the pga commissioner. the things he said i think he brought up 911 and

the 911 families when liv was first brought up. and now he seems to be falling in line as well. so a lot of people have taken 180 degree turns here. i'm not i'm not saying tiger has. tiger was there obviously. i don't know exactly where he is. i don't know if you've heard anything about where he is on the possible reunification of it. i do, though, know what the pga commissioner said in the past, about 911 and 911 families and how quickly he turned. >> keep in mind, phil mickelson, what he said to the author, alan shipnuck, back in 2022, in a quote that went wildly viral and just made actual news. phil mickelson said, we know the saudis killed khashoggi. we know how saudis treat gay people. we know they're atrocious human rights record. but liv golf is giving us an opportunity to disrupt the business of the pga. they know exactly what the moral

calculation is. they know exactly the costs and the benefits. tiger woods now, by the way, to your point, is saying that reunification is in the best interests of golf. and as a business matter, it may well be right. trump's calculation here may be correct that bringing the sport together is a good thing for the business of golf. but now, joe, what you're doing as the america first party, as trump's republican party is running sports, what you're doing is saying, hey, here is an american institution that we are handing to, again, the country most associated with one of the worst atrocities on american soil in 911. right. and so everybody is running from the reality that there is a moral hazard here because they're going to profit from pga tour events coming to trump golf courses. it's not particularly complicated as much as it is, as you put it ethically. very interesting. >> very very interesting. and

again, the word interesting does a lot. thank you pablo. and we'll be talking about spring training in the 9:00 hour. host of pablo tory finds out on meadowlark media. msnbc contributor pablo torre, thank you so much for being with us. and still ahead this morning, elon musk is weighing in on wisconsin supreme court race, and he's pouring millions of dollars into tv ads there. the chair of the state's democratic party, ben wikler, is going to join us to discuss the high stakes election and musk's growing influence on it. plus, president trump is looking to revamp the u.s. postal service. we'll dig into a new report on the executive order the president may soon sign. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. >> looking back at the years gone by, like so many songs. >> lumify. >> it's kind. of amazing. >> wow. my go to is lumify eye. >> drops. >> lumify dramatically reduces redness in one minute. and look at the difference. >> my eyes look. brighter and

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the table, that he hasn't been willing to take this opportunity that we have offered, i think he eventually will get to that point, and i hope so very quickly. >> who does. >> he think is more responsible for the. >> russian invasion of ukraine? putin or zelensky? >> well, look, his his goal here is to bring this war to an end period. and there has been ongoing fighting on both sides. >> you wrote in an op ed in the fall of 2023 that, quote, putin is to blame, certainly like al qaeda was to blame for nine over 11. do you still feel that way now, or do you share the president's assessment, as he says, ukraine is to blame for the start of this war? >> well, it shouldn't surprise you that i share the president's assessment on all kinds of issues. what i wrote as a member of congress is, was, was as a former member of congress. look, what i share the president's assessment on is that the war has to end. this is a president of peace. and who here would argue against peace?

>> embarrassing. meanwhile, president trump's special envoy to ukraine met with president volodymyr zelensky yesterday in kyiv. but a joint press conference between general keith kellogg and zelenskyy was canceled without an explanation. the ukrainian spokesman later said it was the us side who requested the change, that the us wanted the cancellation and the social media post. zelenskyy called the meeting productive and a good discussion. he also reiterated ukraine's desire to work toward a peaceful end to russia's invasion. during his nightly address, zelensky said his meeting with kellogg, quote, restored hope. the new york times reports that the u.s. is opposing, calling russia the aggressor in the war with ukraine. and a group of seven statement being drafted to mark the third anniversary of russia's full scale invasion. we mentioned that earlier g7 statement to outline russia as the clear aggressor. the u.s. saying no. let's bring in now nbc news and msnbc political analyst, former u.s. senator claire mccaskill, staff writer

at the new yorker susan glasser, and politics reporter for semafor dave weigel, eugene robinson and ali vitali are still with us. susan, let's start with your latest column for the new yorker, which has the title trump's putin ization of america. talk to us about what you have seen over this last week or two, to allow you to draw that very sobering and scary conclusion. >> yeah. >> that's right. i mean, look, obviously. >> you know. >> the world is. >> taken aback. >> and stunned. >> to see the evidence. >> before our eyes that president trump has. essentially caused. >> america to shift sides in geopolitics. you know, we are. >> apparently now. on team russia. >> in this conflict between russia and ukraine. >> watching that. >> clip of. >> mike. >> waltz. >> you. >> know, you have to. >> say that is literally the, you know. >> the humiliation. >> of a public. >> figure to not. be able. >> to look. >> the american. >> people in the eye. >> and to say.

>> you. >> know, the sky is blue, to. >> not be able to. >> say that no. >> ukraine did. >> not bear the responsibility. for itself being invaded. this is an astonishing reversal. >> in geopolitics. but at the same time. >> i have to say, as. >> someone who lived. in moscow for the. >> first few years. >> of vladimir. putin's tenure. >> you know what we're. >> seeing here inside america with. >> the. >> use of putin. >> like tactics and the efforts to demolish. >> independent power centers in our. >> country, in our. >> institutions, our checks and balances. >> that, to me as well. >> is something that we need. >> to focus on. it's not. >> just that donald. >> trump has a. >> pro putin. take now on the russia ukraine. >> war. >> but donald. >> trump is using. >> vladimir putin's. playbook on the american people. >> you know, claire mccaskill, the stakes are much higher now because we are in a place where russia is at war with a country

that it invaded, and actually the bloodiest war since hitler's invasion of poland and the rest of europe back in world war two. there are parallels, though, with president trump's first term. we've talked an awful lot about the helsinki press conference talk, where he said he trusted vladimir putin more than he trusted his own intel agency heads that he appointed. we talked about how other republicans continued to pass really tough sanctions. here i just i just wrote down we have a secretary of state who has been a cold war hawk. i mean, his family escaped from cuba, so he's earned his his his street cred there in a very dramatic way. we have an nsa director who has always been a hawk. we saw thom tillis go on the floor yesterday and say on the senate floor what every republican or

almost every republican is saying in the gop cloakroom, we have greg, or we have general kellogg, a man who every general admiral i've talked to that knows him, feels good about him being there, believing that he's going to fight for the right thing. we've got the new york post, of course, this morning, and we've had the new york post for the past several days, along with the wall street journal editorial page, just eviscerating president trump's negotiating position and his statements. so we actually do have, for the most part, president trump standing alone in calling zelensky a dictator and blaming zelensky and ukraine for the start of this war. where do you think this leads? >> well. >> let's talk politics here. we've got some republican senators who know many of the things trump is doing are

illegal, wrong and will hurt america, both in the short run and the long run. they have been afraid to speak out. they have been afraid to stand up to some of his most incompetent nominees for the cabinet. but this is a moment. they can do it politically. america understands that you do not instigate a war when someone invades your country. can you imagine if canada invaded the united states? and we said, well, it's the united states fault, or if mexico invaded united states? we said, well, you know, that really that really was america's fault, that mexico invaded them. so what would he have had zelensky do when russia marched into his country? killing people, innocent people, in order to gain control of his country? was he supposed to say, hey, that's okay, zelensky is supposed to go, hey, great, great job, putin, take our country. and america knows that. so these republicans have political cover. thom tillis did that because he knows the people

of north carolina understand that russia is the bad guy. so what they need to do, and this would really help this country for the next four years, the republicans on the armed services committee, tom cotton, joni ernst, deb fischer, mike rounds, all these guys, they, you know, dan sullivan, they need to do a press conference with roger wicker and say, we do not agree ukraine is the victim here and putin is the perpetrator. and i think it would go a long way towards helping ukraine. it would go a long way towards checking putin. and frankly, they would have the people of america on their side. >> well, you see, as senator mccaskill, they're trying to urge her former colleagues on the republican side reestablish that up is up and down is down when the entire thing has been turned on its head, when the way the president talks about ukraine and russia. but even at congress's doorstep, we're

seeing that these changes are going to bear fruit. you saw speaker johnson, dave, at cpac just yesterday, basically saying aid to ukraine is done. he heard boos from within the room. i mean, foreign policy isn't just happening on the foreign stage. it is very much happening in domestic circles here as well. >> oh, yes. trump has over time replaced republicans who disagree with him with with republicans who don't. that hasn't happened to roger wicker yet. but give it time. yeah. and that was the story of cpac is elon musk clearly was the star of it. but foreign dignitaries who were showing up, the leaders of kind of far right parties in europe and members of congress showing up, are really talking about how great it was for the elon musk model of governance taking over, taking over and having having tech guys work through things and cut them was was the model to follow. you saw mike johnson on stage disagreeing with the idea of a doge dividend, for example. this idea that has come up from musk supporters, really that whatever savings doge comes up with next year, there should be a check sent out to people. johnson disagreed. elon showed up and

said he thinks it's a great idea and trump is on board. and you've seen this pattern for years. but in the last month, the republicans who do have power, who can, who can move bills, who can stop bills, who can choose to fund things or not going along with the entire trump agenda. i think it's going to get tougher as they actually have to make funding decisions as they did as they did last night, because they have on the other side, democrats who have not a majority, but enough enough votes to slow things down, who don't believe that anything, any deal they make, the republicans can survive if trump doesn't want it to. >> but that's. >> why i call. >> it the putin. >> ization of america. >> it's not just about foreign policy. the collapse of. >> one of. >> our two. political parties, when. someone who obviously had a. >> position of principle. saying that. >> you know, russia is the. >> aggressor. >> is literally. >> unable to. >> articulate basic facts because the. >> leader doesn't. believe them. >> you know. >> we've been sort of lying. >> to. >> ourselves, i think again and again. >> we're like, oh. >> well, maybe this. >> senator this time will. >> speak out. >> and i. >> think it's we're missing. >> the bigger. >> story here. which is.

>> that, folks. >> you know, the republicans. >> in the senate are on team trump. >> they are. >> part of what has become a pro russian party that is running this country. >> and it's playing out in the global stage, playing on a national stage, and it's playing out on the state level. case in point, a nonprofit group backed by elon musk is spending over $1 million in the wisconsin supreme court race supporting conservative candidate brad schimel over the liberal candidate susan crawford. musk's group has launched attack ads against crawford for recommending what they consider to be lenient. lenient prison sentences from the bench. crawford has also received donations from out of state billionaires like philanthropist and mega-donor george soros. democratic governor jb pritzker of illinois and linkedin co-founder reid hoffman. the outcome of the election, which will be held on april 1st, will decide the balance of the wisconsin supreme court, which is then expected to decide cases on union rights, redistricting and abortion rights all later this year. joining us now, chair

of the democratic party of wisconsin, ben wikler. ben, good morning. thank you for joining us. let's talk here. starting with elon musk's influence in this race. we know he bankrolled quite a bit of the trump operation this past fall. what are you seeing on the ground there in wisconsin. >> from what we can tell. >> elon musk is by. >> far the biggest funder now. >> he has. >> a million and a half dollars in tv ads. $400,000 in. >> radio ads, $1. >> million. >> to. >> america pac, his door knocking operation. >> he wants to. buy wisconsin's. >> state supreme court. he's backing brad schimel, who's a maga extremist, to former attorney general under scott. >> walker. >> huge fan of abortion bans. >> and rubber stamping corruption. >> for republican administrations, which seems to be a topic of great interest for musk. >> and he's up against. >> susan crawford, who's the kind. of dedicated public servant that elon musk is trying to fire from every possible position in washington's government. so it's now clear that the attack on american

democracy and the functioning of government. >> isn't limited. >> to the federal level. elon musk wants it all. claire mccaskill. >> yeah, ben, i'm curious, has anybody run ads making sure that the folks of wisconsin know that elon musk, along with his nameless, faceless, deep state bureaucrats that are firing people without any consideration of how important the work is they're doing. do they know that he's doing this? do do the voters understand that he is trying to buy the wisconsin supreme court? and i'm assuming he is not popular in wisconsin with slightly more than a majority of the people who live there. >> so this. >> is what's interesting. >> about this fight. >> this is. >> the first place. >> where voters. >> get to have a say on. >> whether elon musk should control the. government and the court system at every level, and among democrats. and among people paying attention. >> he. >> is profoundly unpopular. he is a polarizing figure who is

less popular. >> than any other. republican national figure that. >> we have pulled. so voters will be finding out a lot more. very soon about how elon musk wants to put his porn. brad schimel on the state supreme court in order to prevent any kind of check on his power. that said, there is work to do. anyone who wants to help should go to wisdoms.org. >> sign up to volunteer to chip in to. >> help susan crawford win this race. and if we do, it can puncture the myth of invulnerability. >> that. >> currently surrounds elon musk and donald trump in this moment. if we want republicans to stand up to what elon musk and trump are doing, we need to show that they will lose their elections if they if they keep going along with what the far right is trying to push on them. >> this is gene robinson. we see elon musk doing the sort of bond villain thing at cpac yesterday with the chainsaw and the sunglasses and everything. he's he's obviously not a popular

figure. but do you are are people in wisconsin, especially republicans. are they now tying trump to him. so closely that you see any any waning in support for donald trump? or is or is maga still still running strong in wisconsin? >> trump is nowhere near as popular as first term presidents usually are in late february. so he is his net unfavorable. he's not as unpopular as he's. going to. >> be. >> or as he. >> was at. >> the end of his first term, but elon musk is absolutely an anchor around his neck, and he'll also be an anchor around brad schimmel's neck in the wisconsin supreme court race because he's attacking veterans benefits, he's attacking people researching cures for cancer. public education. he's going after people's private social security information and tax information. these things are horrifying. and across wisconsin, there are farmers right now who can't move their crops because elon musk has and

donald trump have frozen foreign aid. these are things that americans did not sign up for when they when they voted to try to bring down costs. so by exposing what musk and trump are doing, making the case that this is. a chance to put a check on their power, we have an opportunity to mobilize democrats and people across the political spectrum who just believe in the basics of how democracy and government should function, to vote for susan crawford and deal a blow to brad schimel and the kind of musk maga agenda that i think will ripple across the country. we just have 39 days to do it. so the time is here. >> chair of the. >> wisconsin democratic party, ben wikler. ben, thank you for joining us this morning, dave weigel. we evoked elon musk's appearance at cpac a couple times this morning. you were there. you saw steve bannon make an interesting hand gesture. you saw musk with the chainsaw and the sunglasses and some rather incoherent answers. we're seeing some polls right now that musk's popularity already really on the decline, but i assume in that

room he was received well. take us behind the scenes about what you saw at cpac. >> well, it was rapturous. a bigger crowd of jd vance early in the morning had a bigger security line than than elon musk did. but the rumor that musk was going to be at the conference broke out, and it was confirmed middle of the day. and he is adored by the conservative activists who show up at cpac for the mike johnson i think i articulated, which is that maybe, maybe in a self-defeating way for him as the speaker of the house, he was telling his interviewer on stage that elon is doing the sort of things that republicans have wanted to do for years. they control congress. i don't know why they're not doing them, but the idea that you needed somebody to go in and smash the system as it exists, incredibly popular at cpac. and this is something that the people showing up to this conference have waited for generations to do, and not each part of this, there are there are, i think, some dissents on whether it's a great thing to decouple our relationships with, with western europe the way that we're doing. but the idea of going in and slashing government and also picking the targets that he's picking, very popular

in that room. well, listen to ben wikler now talking about who is being affected by these cuts. every campaign needs to find a target and polarize it. the target in cpac was more u.s. aid workers. or let's name the craziest sounding grants we can that went out to ghana. if we can get gender somewhere in the name of this grant, let's make fun of it. less so about government employees being fired who might might be of some use to farmers, or might be some use to senior citizens veterans who are being laid off. you didn't really see the what the argument might be in two months at cpac. you didn't hear that you heard this in confidence. now, that would trump. what elon is doing is a generational change. liberals can't undo it and americans are eventually going to love it. >> the stark contrast of the rapturous response in the room to those cuts at cpac versus the frustration. we heard that town hall in georgia at the top of the show. that dynamic would be fascinating to watch. politics reporter for stanford dave weigel. he went to cpac, so you didn't have to. thank you, dave. staff writer at the new yorker susan glasser and former senator claire mccaskill. thank you all. coming up here on morning joe,

another judge rules that the trump administration is not complying with court orders. we'll tell you which one and explain the impact. plus, governor kathy hochul says she will not remove new york city mayor adams from office. we'll play through her comments on that decision and the reaction from others in new york. morning joe coming right back. joe coming right back. >> keep on turning. planning to move? reduces redness. join the 6 million families who discovered a smarter, more flexible way to move, with pods. save up to 20% now for a limited time. whether you're moving across town or across the country. save up to 20% at pods dot com today. >> in one minute. >> and look at the difference. >> my eyes look brighter. >> and whiter. >> and whiter. >> for up booking.com has all kinds of stays. for those who love family resorts... [water spalsh]

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yesterday, he posted congestion pricing is dead. >> manhattan and all of. >> new. >> york is saved. >> long live. >> the king. yes, the classic domain of. >> an all powerful king. >> yes, it's what. >> all kings do regulate. >> local toll roads. >> trump's royal. >> decree did not go over. >> too. >> well, with new york. governor and. >> dad's third wife watching the way he says goodbye. >> to the babysitter, kathy hochul governor. >> hochul immediately said congestion pricing wouldn't end posting. >> the cameras are staying on. >> governor, i. >> love your defiance. >> but you. >> know trump loves cameras. >> this just means he's going to do his next press conference. strapped to the hood of a camry. well, trump's team. >> claims he can end the program. >> because the. >> federal government has jurisdiction over highways. >> leading to manhattan. >> nice try, but i've driven into manhattan. >> many times, and. >> that stretch of highway was adopted by westie self storage.

thank you for. >> your storage, westie. >> driven by that sign many times up there. indeed, a look of new york city and many in new york applauded governor hochul for her stand against trump on the congestion pricing fight. reaction a little more split about yesterday's news, as hochul says she will not use her office's power to remove new york city mayor eric adams from office. >> after careful consideration, i have determined that i will not commence removal proceedings at this time. my strong belief is that the will of the voters and the supremacy and sanctity of democratic elections preclude me from any other action. >> in that press conference yesterday, governor hochul instead outlined what she called guardrails on adams's mayoral authority. they include installing a special inspector general to oversee the mayor's office and expanding the power of the state comptroller to

evaluate decisions related to the federal government. in a statement, mayor adams insists there is no legal basis for governor hochul's decision, but says he is willing to work with her to ensure faith in our government is strong. just to remind viewers this is happening because of the trump doj dismissing the charges against eric adams, but with prejudice without prejudice, meaning they could be reinstated if he doesn't follow the trump agenda, which is set off howls of protest across the city and state. >> yeah, and of course, that is the reason that we find hochul facing so much pressure, but a really thorny political issue, not just in new york politics, but then also as her reelection battle is looming in just a few in just a year, 2026. meanwhile, a federal judge yesterday ruled that the trump administration has not fully complied with the court order, pausing the freezing of foreign assistance grants and contracts. the same judge last week ordered the administration to continue u.s. foreign aid after hearing claims from federal contractors challenging an executive order

signed by president trump. the judge determined that a blanket suspension of congressionally appropriated foreign aid had caused irreparable harm to the contractors, and was likely not allowed under the administrative procedure act. he also suggested that the administration was searching for new ways to justify its pause on large amounts of aid, rather than follow his court order. makes sense. they want this stuff to continue. yeah. >> and we will continue to see so much of this fought out in the courts in the weeks ahead. coming up here on morning joe. how to win at travel. our next guest is out with a new book on how to make every trip a memorable, affordable and impactful. that's next right here on morning joe. >> two tickets. >> to. >> paradise.

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>> no, wait. >> i have two seats into. >> laguardia. >> but they're not together. it's boarding right now. >> we'll take them. >> we're not going. >> to sit together. >> well. >> so what? it's not that long. >> you'll read. >> well, what about george? >> he's supposed. >> to pick us up at kennedy. >> we'll call him. >> there's no time. >> no time. >> is there time? >> there's no time. >> there's no time. >> all right, we'll call him from the plane. >> i have one. >> seat in first class and one in coach. >> the price. >> is the same because your flight was canceled.

>> oh, well. >> i'll take the first class. >> jerry. >> what? >> why should you. >> get the. >> first class? >> elaine. >> have. >> you ever flown. >> first class? >> no. >> all right. >> then, see. >> you won't. >> know what you're missing. >> i've flown first class. >> elaine, i can't. >> go back to coach. >> i can't, i won't. >> jerry seinfeld, elaine benes on a classic 1992 episode of seinfeld experiencing the familiar headaches of air travel. although things may have worked out for jerry in that clip, elaine could have been better off had she been able to read. our next guests new book travel expert brian kelly, has released his debut book titled how to win at travel. it reveals major secrets from the travel industry that can help readers go big with their travel plans. at the smallest prices possible. and the book's author, brian kelly, joins us now. he's also the founder of the points guy, a company that produces travel tips content. brian, good to see you offline. we'll discuss my marriott points collection, but

right now, give us a sampling of you. look, it's a moment where. so we've seen a travel surge post pandemic. but so many people find it so frustrating. what are a few cheat codes, if you will, to have a better experience? >> well, points i say in the book, we're living in the platinum age of travel. you know, in the back of the plane things are really bad. it's tighter and more cramped. they're charging fees now for everything that used to be free. but in the front of the plane, things are amazing. and the airlines have actually made it easier to use your credit card points and loyalty. so in the book i really talk about, every traveler has to have a strategy on the credit cards that they have. you know, a lot of these new lounges that are popping up in airports are gorgeous. the credit card companies themselves are creating their own lounges. those are the ones you want to get into. and i do. it's similar to elaine and jerry. i have a whole chapter when the airlines cancel or delay your flight, you need to be savvy and go on the offense and know what to ask for, because unfortunately, you're asking for favors most of the time. there are not many

consumer protections out there for travelers. >> brian, it's ali. i'm a longtime follower because i'm also points obsessed, like over here. but brian, in the book you discuss why traveling so regularly is so important. you write in part, quote. according to a cornell university study, people get greater satisfaction from buying experiences than they do from material objects. a trip, even one that just lasts a weekend, may be more happy making than a stereo or a pile of new clothes. taking trips to new destinations can not only give you that needed mood boost, but also foster creativity, empathy, energy, and focus. so when thinking about where travel should be when you prioritize your budget, remember that taking a trip can be an investment in your mental and physical health. talk about that. especially for me as someone who buys the clothes as much as they're buying the trip, i will admit. >> yeah, i mean. >> all the data that we're seeing, you know, especially the younger generations experiences are what matters. they can change your outlook on life. and i firmly believe the more people travel, the better. more open

minded they become. but the problem is, a lot of people don't have those increases in salaries. you need to be able to figure out how to juice value from your everyday life. and this is where points and the loyalty world make all the difference. and this is why i love travel today. because you don't need to be a millionaire to travel really well. you just have to be smart and mind your knowledge in the points ecosystem that's out there. and the us is the most lucrative country in the world for credit card rewards. so, you know, focus on getting a good credit score, paying your bills off in full and getting these really rich cards which can pay for those trips so you don't have to go in the debt to take these life changing trips. >> yeah, really, really useful advice. all in the new book titled how to win at travel, and it's on sale now. and for more travel tips, be sure to head over to the points guy.com. i have done that many times. author brian kelly brian, thank you and congrats on the book. safe travels. all right. still ahead here, we'll show you the

contentious town hall in a republican congressional district in georgia, where there was real outrage over the trump administration's layoffs of federal workers. could be an important moment. plus, we'll dig into the big picture of how this administration's approach could fundamentally change how the united states operates for years to come. morning joe will years to come. morning joe will be back in just a moment. baby: liberty! mom: liberty mutual is all she talks about since we saved hundreds by bundling our home and auto insurance. baby: liberty! biberty: hey kid, it's pronounced "biberty." baby: liberty! biberty: biberty! baby: liberty! biberty: biberty! baby: liberty! biberty: bi-be-rty! baby: biberty! biberty: and now she's mocking me. very mature. mom: hey, that's enough you two! biberty: hey, i'm not the one acting like a total baby. mom: she's two. only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: liberty. after last month's massive solar flare added a 25th hour to the day, businesses are wondering "what should we do with it?"

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>> i support president trump, and i believe that most of his policies on national security are right. i believe his instincts are pretty good. but what i'm telling you, whoever believes that there is any space for vladimir putin in the future of a stable globe, better go to ukraine. they better go to europe. they better invest the time to understand that this man is a cancer and the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime. so, ladies and gentlemen, when i tell you that vladimir putin is a liar, a murderer, and a man responsible for ordering the systematic torture, kidnaping and rape of innocent civilians, believe me, because the evidence is mile high. if you believe that ukraine is a country, an ocean away, and not relevant to our national security, think again. the world is small. the world is watching. the strength of our

alliances are on the line, and the future of democracy in the world is on the line. if we do anything less than defeat vladimir putin. >> that is republican senator thom tillis of north carolina on the senate floor yesterday, actually saying the quiet part out loud, voicing the concerns of the senate floor on the senate floor that most of his fellow republicans are whispering in the gop cloakroom and what america's closest allies are voicing across western democracies that stood by the united states of america in our fight against naziism and soviet communism. and also the same concerns being voiced among donald trump's most loyal defenders in the media. most this morning are still asking whether mr. trump's cruel positioning against ukraine is merely. misaligned, some

disastrous opening bid in negotiations, or are a drastic realignment of u.s. foreign policy that will be more dangerous, more and moral and encourage more russian invasions across eastern and central europe. just ahead, we're going to show you how donald trump's national security adviser is now trying to explain the president's position, which is exactly the opposite of what his has been when he was a member of congress. good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it's friday, february 21st with us. we have co host of our fourth hour and contributing writer at the atlantic, jonathan lemire, pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the washington post eugene robinson. we have writer at large for the new york times. elisabeth bumiller, managing editor at the bulwark, sam stein. and also, we have the host of way too early,

ali vitali. and, you know, jean, we're going to get we're going to get to ukraine in a minute. but just i just think we shouldn't let what thom tillis said go by without a comment off the top. what senator tillis said is actually publicly is what almost every republican senator is saying privately. what what almost every republican house member is saying privately, that's on the armed services committee or the foreign affairs committee. they are horrified by what they're hearing. and now we're going to be reporting that the g-7 has scrubbed their official communique to take out russia as the aggressor in a war that vladimir putin clearly started. >> yeah, absolutely. so the g-7 cannot publish a joint statement with the phrase russian aggression in it. look, this is

insane. but you talk about it as well. maybe it's an opening bid. people are saying this is trump being trump or whatever. i don't see why anyone should not believe him. he likes vladimir putin. he can't stand vladimir zelensky. we know that. you know how much of foreign policy, domestic policy, how much of life is just personal to donald trump, his own grievances, his his own petty slights that he he he believes that he experienced. and i think he fully intends to follow through with this new, completely un-american, disastrous foreign policy that he has outlined in the last few days. >> yeah, and he has he has made it deeply personal, calling zelenskyy a modestly successful comedian, calling for new elections in ukraine, demanding

half of their minerals, their deal. we did hear secretary of state rubio behind closed doors, trying to reassure europeans that maybe u.s. policy not changing as much as their positioning publicly. but that's basically joe that has has left, you know, allies and adversaries like sort of bewildered. but at the end of the day, this is donald trump's decision. and let's remember, it's very reminiscent of the first term where trump publicly very friendly towards putin. but the administration and the congress at times took steps to punish russia. we'll have to see if that happens around this time to, you know, certainly, senator tillis breaking with the white house yesterday, saying publicly what so many of his colleagues are saying privately, others have been very much more modest in their criticism, saying they disagree with the idea that putin is a good guy but not willing to actually criticize trump for what he's saying. we're going to have to see this time, though, if the guardrails hold, where this time trump pushes through and says, look, you know, this is our new

approach to moscow and europe. >> and again, we really had a tale of two administrations in the first term. it's so important for people to remember that in the first administration, you have donald trump saying things like he said at the helsinki press conference in 2018, in response to your question that he trusted vladimir putin more than they own his own people, that he put in to run the intel community. at the same time his vice president was going to western europe, delivering speeches that were reagan esque, anti-soviet, anti-russian, anti-russian aggression. you you, of course, also had republicans in the senate at the same time when donald trump was saying things that caused grave concerns among many republicans, they were passing the toughest sanctions that had ever been passed on russia. so we'll see if this is an opening bid. we'll see if you, in fact, have have russians having to actually step up and make sacrifices at the

negotiating table if they want it to end, or whether this is, again, a radical new step, a radical new direction for the united states foreign policy, regardless the cost, the impact of that on our foreign policy, even if it is, even if it's reeled back in in the next week and there's no reason to believe it would be, is incalculable, incalculable, and will once again have our allies, our closest allies, our most important allies, asking the question, can we trust the united states of america? elizabeth, i just again, one other thing, too, that i don't think people are underlining enough. i know we've talked about it a little bit on this show, but all things are personal with donald trump. foreign policy is personal with donald trump. if he decides that he likes the most bloodthirsty dictator on earth in north korea and they write love letters, he calls them love letters. it everything is personal and is so important to remember how donald trump's relationship with zelensky began. it began in july

of 2019 when he made the, quote, perfect phone call, as he said, where, you know, he was trying to shake down zelensky to dig up dirt on his political rival, joe biden and his family while he was in the middle of a presidential campaign and basically saying, you can get your $400 million that congress has already appropriated. but before you do, i need you to dig up dirt on joe biden. zelensky refused to do that. and if some if people want to understand why he loathes zelensky so much, that's a good place to start. >> yes. and then, of course, zelensky made the great mistake of actually saying the, the, the truth, which is that donald trump was in a web of disinformation. and, you know, i'm sure trump just was shocked that zelensky had it was the most critical thing that zelensky has ever said of trump in public. and so then you got the backlash from trump saying that, that zelensky basically started the war. i think it's

interesting, especially marco rubio's role here, though, that he is what he was saying to the europeans in a call after trump sidled up to, to, to putin was that, you know, you know, keep calm. this is not a major change in the administration's policy. of course it is. and it of course it is. against what zelensky what what rubio himself. he's very, very he's a big russia hawk. so it's if you're a european and you're seeing this, you hear from one hand from the commander in chief that we're going to be closer to russia. on the other hand, you hear from the secretary of state, pay no attention. you're in a state of confusion. and i can tell you, i most of europeans are going to pay attention to what the president is saying and not what the secretary of state is saying. >> coming up, we're going to get to what democrats are calling the trump administration slash and burn approach to mass firings. this is a republican congressman faces backlash from his own constituents over the cuts being made by the trump administration and elon musk's

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agencies. in his ruling, the judge overseeing the case explained that trump's onslaught of executive actions have, quote, caused disruption and even chaos in widespread quarters of american society, but added that federal court was not the appropriate venue for the lawsuit. meanwhile, more than 200 employees at the transportation security administration were fired this week as part of the trump administration's sweeping layoffs. the tsa confirms that 243 probationary employees, who had been either hired or promoted within the year, have now been terminated. in a statement, a tsa spokesperson wrote in part this under president trump's leadership. tsa terminated personnel due to poor performance and conduct issues during their probationary period. there's more. the irs has also now begun firing employees roughly 7000 workers in washington, d.c. and elsewhere across the country

have been let go. the layoffs, which come, of course, in the middle of tax season, affect probationary employees with roughly one year or less of service at the agency. the ranking member of the senate finance committee, ron wyden, said yesterday the layoffs are already having an impact. >> i can tell you it's already taking a significant toll. i'm particularly concerned about refunds. as the ranking democrat on the senate finance committee, we focus on services to taxpayers, and i'm very concerned about the possible delay in refunds. >> i mean, you know, anybody that's ever dealt with the irs and understanding, calling them for any reason, understands that most of those workers there have such a backlog. it takes so long to get in touch with, with, with agents because they just don't have enough workers. they're also working data, and they're working on computers that in many cases are decades old. their technology is absolutely

horrific. and at the end of the day, of course, you know, maybe politicians want to paint the irs as the bad guys. and because they audited donald trump too much, donald trump would say in the end of the day, it is working americans trying to get their refund. it's middle class americans trying to get the refunds they can't afford. you know, the lawyers are are whatever millionaires and billionaires can afford to take care of their problems with the irs. it's going to be working class and middle class taxpayers who are going to be impacted by this. and you can go down the line whether you look at the cuts at tsa, you really cutting tsa. that's going to make lines longer for americans waiting to go to travel back home, to visit their families, to visit their loved ones, to work week in and week out. all of these cuts that, again, come from a small part of america's budget, about 10% of america's budget. all of

these cuts are going to cause a disproportionate impact with working americans, with people, again, that can't afford lawyers or accountants. and, and, you know, especially when you start talking about messing with, with safety of flying. i mean, it's just crazy. so, i mean, this sort of shoot first, ask questions later politically. so it's i think i think it really makes life more difficult and more dangerous for the americans who can afford it the least. >> and of course, that's the concern that democrats especially, are trying to highlight here, the fact that these are not cuts that have no impact. they are cuts at the irs. we will start hearing those rolling stories of the backlogs of the folks who are not able to get their tax refunds in a timely fashion. we're at the

we're in the we're in the stretch of tax season right now. we're going to get to the end of it and then we'll start hearing those. but you're right to bring up the transportation safety authority. you're right to bring up matters at the faa. we talked about the impacts of all of these cuts across the nih, the impact of usaid being lost on the world stage. all of these things have long tails and long threads. and i think what's so notable is my sources have told me that lawmakers have spent time at home this week hearing from their constituents about it. and now we're starting to see it actually on camera as reporters go to some of these town halls, including in places like georgia, where i'll bring you into this next story, republican lawmaker rich mccormick faced an angry crowd during a town hall in his georgia district last night. many of his constituents lashed out at him for his support. of those massive federal layoffs and budget cuts by the trump administration. and elon musk's doge. the event was held about 20 miles from cdc headquarters, where the trump administration removed 1300 employees so far.

atlanta journal constitution reporter and nbc news contributor greg bluestein attended the town hall and captured these events as they unfolded. in one instance, an attendee questioned why the conservative party was taking such a sloppy approach to the situation. watch. >> cdc workers working. >> on the bird flu, being fired by doge, and then. having to be. >> rehired when someone realized. >> oh gosh. >> we. >> need those people. >> why is. >> a. supposedly conservative. >> party taking such a. >> radical and. >> extremist and sloppy. >> approach to this? >> a lot of the work they. >> do is duplicitous. >> with ai. once again, one of the problems we have. >> i happen to be a doctor. >> i know. >> a. >> few things. >> if we continue to grow the size of government. >> and we can't afford. >> it. >> it's going to. >> have shortfalls. >> in your medicare and medicaid. >> social security. >> and other. >> things that we.

>> can't afford. >> guys. >> we have to. >> make some decisions. >> i understand. >> trying to do more with less. that's reasonable. what's not reasonable is taking. this chainsaw approach, which. >> they obviously. >> admit when they. >> fired these people. >> and then decided. >> oh, we fired the wrong people, we've. >> got to. >> bring them back in. >> why is this. >> being jammed down the pipe. so rushed. >> and sloppily so. >> yeah. >> a chainsaw approach, notable given what we saw at cpac, where elon musk literally brought a chainsaw on stage. but look, you can see the crowd there clapping that attendees for that attendees question. and here's how mccormick then responded before the crowd interrupted him. >> understanding is when you say you have this many employees that you have to cut, that organization decides who they're going to cut. now, they may make. >> they may not. >> we're not. giving any numbers. >> did you catch that last part? a resident said it was actually elon musk that's making the decisions when it comes to job cuts. one attendee told the lawmaker he'd done a disservice and failed to stand up for his constituents. well, no. mccormick handily won reelection

last year. he won by 64.9% of the vote in this district, in a state that president trump flipped after narrowly losing it to joe biden in 2020. so, joe, it's not like he's in some blue sea. he's in his home district that handily reelected him. >> and i will say, i remember back when we actually shut down the government to try to negotiate, to balance the budget. that's what our town hall meetings started looking like quickly. in the most conservative districts across america. and gene, i just i just have to i just have to correct the congressman here because i'm afraid it's a line that they've been given, maybe by the republican party to say that's just not accurate. where he's talking about we have to cut nih research. we have to cut air

safety. we have to cut food safety. we have to cut, you know, nuclear safety. we have to do all of these other things or else oh my gosh, you're not going to get your medicare and social security checks. well, the fact is, none of this money is going to touch on that. as i've said time and again, we're $36 trillion in debt. that $36 trillion is driven by pentagon spending by massive tax cuts. it's driven by medicare. it's driven by medicaid. it's driven by interest on the debt. our interest on the debt is larger than any of these things that they're talking about cutting right now. and what are they doing? at the same time, he says, we have to make choices. they are about to pass the biggest tax ever for billionaires and for millionaires. that's the choice they've made. this is not about

protecting medicare or medicaid or social security. this is about protecting tax cuts for billionaires. and that's not ideological. just look at what the cbo is saying. just look at what the budget office is saying. so they're there and he's saying, oh, i'm trying to protect your medicare. that's why we're slashing medical research. we're trying to protect your social security. that's why we're slashing air safety. we're trying to protect, you know, the food that you eat and the air that you breathe and the water. the water that you drink. because we're trying to protect your medicare and medicaid and social security. no, no, that's not what they're trying to do. they're trying to clear the clear. all of this good work, this work that americans need, middle class americans like the people at that town hall meeting, need for tax cuts for the richest americans. >> that's exactly what they're

clearing the decks for. and this is a this is essentially in the context of the federal government. this is a this is a show. this is a this is a performance. you could cut every nonmilitary federal government employee, every one of them, and you'd save something like 3% of the budget. so it is ridiculous. yet they are setting the stage for these massive tax cuts that are only going to swell the deficit. and any way you look at it, the most favorable sort of figures to the administration of the outcome of this is at least 3 or $4 trillion added to the debt over the course of, of, of a few years. and that's the truth. >> so let's right now bring in the aforementioned greg bluestein, who was there last night in georgia, shot the video

we just saw. greg, good to see you. thanks for joining us this morning. good reporting. so tell us more about the scene in that town hall and the mood from these constituents. as noted in a pretty safe republican district, talking about the trump must cuts. >> yeah. >> this is a safe republican district. and richard mccormick won with about two thirds of the vote just last year. but there's been a lot of talk about how there hasn't been the same amount of democratic outrage that there was, you know, at this point in donald trump's first term, this is the first moment where i kind of really felt it on the ground here in georgia. you know, there was a sense of bubbling outrage that really reminded me some of the tea party backlash we saw, you know, 15 years ago or so at town hall meetings targeting democrats and more moderate, more mainstream republicans. rich mccormick is not a, you know, your traditional maga firebrand. he's no marjorie taylor greene here in georgia. he does sit next door to her district, in a sense, but he is a trump supporter. he ended up

endorsing ron desantis last yea, but wound up in trump's camp. and like every other major prominent republican in georgia, is very aligned with with donald trump's platform and agenda. so here you saw him struggling at times throughout this hour long meeting where he was jeered, where he was booed. there was some mild applause here and there, but for the most part, this was a bubbling outrage directed at him. you know, holding him accountable for donald trump's first steps. >> coming up, we're going to get to sam stein's new piece about what he calls the doge brain drain. that's straight ahead on morning joe. >> so which would you recommend. >> me? >> yeah. >> some things are just better at home. with empire's home floor advantage. you can compare samples in. >> your own space. >> your own space. >> call or v the itch and rash of moderate to severe eczema disrupts my skin. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now i have rinvoq.

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>> read and listen. >> staying up half the night reading executive orders. >> for. this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> all of this can be overwhelming, but it is important to remember there are still checks and balances. there's a lot being thrown at the american people right now, and it is really important to pay attention to it, but it is just as important to recognize how many of those things are getting announced. but they're not happening at all, or at least not yet. just try to remember we are not looking at the final score. we are still in the first quarter. keep your pads on. the game has just begun. >> sam, as mentioned, your latest article for the bulwark is titled the doge brain drain has begun, and in it you write this in part in the first month of the second trump administration, the world's richest man under-informed

chronically online and staff of teenage and 20 something former engineering interns has been moving at warp speed to reshape, reduce and even dismantle the united states government. but while musk's rampage has been feverishly covered, the scope of its impact remains largely underappreciated. experts say it can't be measured in weeks or months, or even in government services affected. rather, it will be felt over the span of decades and defined in metrics like intellectual talent lost. dozens of interviews with top researchers, revealed a persistent, overbearing fear that the united states is at the starting point of a massive brain drain. young researchers hoping to find new treatment for cancer, dementia or other diseases may find that with government funding curtailed, they may never get the opportunity. areas of scientific investigation will be cut off as the trump administration

discourages or outright prohibits funding for certain fields of research. sam, i give you credit. you've been really good at highlighting the impact. a lot of these cuts are doing so on your twitter account, but also putting this piece together. so talk to us about the big picture here, not just the immediate. we just spent last segment talking about the immediate impacts, painful impacts for a lot of people, red and blue state residents alike. but the larger picture of how this is going to fundamentally reshape the united states. does. >> well remind me. >> first, where do i venmo. >> you. >> for reading that? >> yeah. how much do i owe you? it's a reasonable fee. we'll talk afterwards. >> look, we. >> spent the last segment talking about all these. >> cuts, and. >> we talked about. >> it in the context of the government services that will be rendered obsolete or inoperable. >> and really, the story of the. >> first month of the trump administration. >> is that but also the lives. >> that are actually going. >> to be upended. >> so when. >> you're talking. >> about probationary employees that were probationary. it has a. >> bad connotation. >> what it really means. >> is people who are. just starting out in their. government jobs. but it doesn't necessarily mean just young. >> people, right? >> you could be switching.

>> to a new job. and you've just started out. >> there. >> and these people. >> tend to be starting. >> their careers. >> having young families. entering fields of research for which there are not really comparable private enterprise opportunities. >> and that is. >> predominantly true. >> in the fields of science. >> and so what happened. >> is. >> early on, the. nih specifically put a cap on indirect costs. and indirect costs are those administrative costs that. go into funding research. >> buildings, you. >> know. >> scientific equipment, things like that. and when that happened. >> something really remarkable took place. a number of different universities. >> institutions said, oh my god, we're about to lose hundreds of millions of dollars. >> and 1 or. >> 2. >> specifically said, we. >> can no longer hire graduate assistant researchers. now think about that. people who. >> you. >> really need to come in and staff you and. grow as scientists. >> they were. >> no longer able. >> to get those opportunities at different research institutions. >> what does that mean for us. >> as a society? it means a. >> whole generation of young. >> scientists, people who will make advancements.

>> in critical medical fields, won't actually. >> be able to take that first step. >> and so when you talk to. scientists around the country, researchers around the country, this is what shocks them. >> it's this idea. that we are actually taking our best. >> and brightest and saying, no, no. >> no, we're not going to support you. you have to look elsewhere. now, some. >> might say, well. >> okay, sure. there's other opportunities, right? why not go to the private sector. >> and that just doesn't. >> work. because the private sector. >> is consumed with funding things that will make a profit and so long term high risk. but very. important research will not be done by private sector companies. >> it has to be done by the government. >> and then they say, well, why not. >> go. >> you know, into another field? well, no. >> they've devoted themselves to this field. >> so the only. real opportunity these people. >> have is to either leave government or leave. >> science or. >> go overseas. >> and that's already what's happening. >> yeah. you know, i can't emphasize enough the role that that these universities, these these institutions play in, in

basic research, in human beings learning stuff that we didn't know about the human body, about the universe, that that has absolutely no immediate application, but that ten years from now, 20 years from now creates the, you know, the information revolution or i mean, this is the way it works. and i've been in touch with, you know, some people i know at universities that are trying to deal with this tut and they are they are struggling as hard as they can to, you know, to be able to continue the way they are and they just can't figure it out. >> and so either. >> you stop. >> hiring graduate. >> research assistants or you. >> stop hiring. >> faculties, or. you stop doing the research entirely. and to your point, gene, like even the private sector, these companies that do biomedical research, they are dependent. >> on nih. >> funded. >> research to do their own research. >> and so when you cut.

>> off the nih spigot like. >> this, it has profound impacts. >> and frankly, let's. >> be honest. >> a lot of what we. >> fund for the nih doesn't. >> end. >> up working out. >> but that's the point is that. >> you take as many. shots as you can. because at some point you. >> will create the most. >> important breakthrough scientifically. >> coming up, nbc's raf sanchez is going to be with us in berlin, and he's going to be talking about germany's really important elections that are coming up on sunday. and those elections come amid a rise in the country's far right parties. morning joe is coming right back. we will. back. we will. >> find you acting on your planning to move? join the 6 million families who discovered a smarter, more flexible way to move, with pods. save up to 20% now for a limited time. whether you're moving across town or across the country. save up to 20% at pods dot com today. got eyelid itching, crusties and swelling that won't go away? it could be... demodex blepharitis!

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you. gold bond get in touch with irresistibly touchable skin. >> chairman. voters are set this weekend to head to the polls for their federal elections. their voters are going to choose their representatives in parliament, and those elected will then vote for a new chancellor of germany for that role. there are four

major candidates that spread the entire political spectrum of the country. let's bring in right now from berlin, nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez. raf. this is easily the most watched european election, at least since france is a few years ago, when there were great fears that le pen and her far right party was going to do well. right now it looks like the center right party may be doing may be doing okay. the christian democrats, but adf not far behind. tell us all about it. >> yeah. >> jo. so at first glance, this very much looks like a normal election in germany. you have an unpopular government here. it's led by the center left. it's presiding over a bad economy. germany has been in recession for two years, and it looks like the voters are going to chuck them out, and they're going to replace them with a government led by the center right, the

cdu, angela merkel's old party, a traditional transatlantic party. they are supporters of ukraine. but joe, what is not normal is that the far right is absolutely surging in a way we have not seen since the. >> defeat of. >> the nazis in the second world war. the polls show the alternative for germany, known. >> as. >> the afd, likely to win the second largest number of seats in parliament to be the largest opposition party. and that is sending shockwaves absolutely through this country. now the afd is running on a platform of populism that will sound pretty familiar. they are talking about making germany great again, talking about restoring manufacturing, talking about cutting immigration. that is a message that is resonating here, especially in the wake of several recent attacks committed by asylum seekers committed by migrants. one of them just a week ago in munich. what the afd does have, though, joe, is an

unusual advantage. the explicit support of elon musk, the world's richest man, a very prominent figure in the trump administration. as you have just been discussing, he has openly endorsed the afd. he has spoken at one of their conferences, and he has been boosting the party all across his social media platform. x now, joe, you will, of course, recognize where we are here in berlin this morning. we are at the iconic brandenburg gate. that is where president reagan gave that famous speech. mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. last week, vice president vance, another republican, was here in germany at the munich security conference, and he gave a speech about tearing down a wall. he said that germany's mainstream parties needed to abandon the principle known as the firewall. the firewall is the idea that the parties of the center left parties, the center right, do not cooperate with the far right. given this country's history of naziism. that was a

speech that absolutely stunned mainstream germany, but it was music to the ears of the afd. they basically interpreted it as a stamp of legitimacy directly from the white house. a message from the trump administration to german voters that it was okay to vote for the far right. and we spoke to a parliamentary candidate for the afd. i want you to take a listen to what she told us about vance's speech. >> it allows them. to think what they actually feel. >> they. >> i think they're just. >> open a door. >> i don't. >> think it influenced. >> anybody, but. >> i. >> think i do think that that it's. >> it allowed a. >> mind shift. >> maybe. >> or just. and. >> yeah, just i think. >> people are now they feel. >> free to. >> actually vote for what they always wanted to vote for. >> so you heard her there basically saying that vice president vance gave german voters a permission structure to

vote for the far right. the vice president also met with the leader of the afd while he was here in germany. she is kind of an interesting figure. her name is alice weidel. she talks about traditional family values. she talks about cutting immigration. she is actually also married to a woman, that woman born in sri lanka. so this is not in some ways a traditional figure of the hard right. joe, germans go to the polls here on sunday. we expect to get exit polls around noon eastern, and the whole world will really be watching. >> coming up, mercifully, baseball is back and we're going to go live to tap as mlb spring training gets underway and the grapefruit league. that's straight ahead on morning joe. >> thank you. some things are just better at home, like picking out.

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one (800) 403-7539. >> donald trump. >> is defending the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal government now can discriminate against the citizens of the country. >> we are all watching. >> and. waiting to. see who. >> is going to. >> hold the line. >> don't miss the. >> weekends, saturday. >> and sunday mornings at 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> we saw elon musk. >> take kind of a powerful role. >> did anything about how he wielded his power surprise you? do you not need a katrina level type of response that is rebuilding to make sure it won't happen again? you've obviously made a decision to resign. are there any lessons that can be learned as you're talking to members of your congregation, what do you tell them about how to stand up for their own moral beliefs, but still find grace in this moment? >> matthews one of the best.

>> in. >> the league. >> mcdavid under. >> 50% for the regular season. >> but he won 12 out of. >> 14 in. >> their opener. >> and he. >> won. >> that one and got a shot off. >> centering mcdavid scores. connor mcdavid wins it for canada. >> connor mcdavid, the best player on the planet. delivers the four nations title with that game winning goal in overtime, and he lifts canada to a32 victory over the united states in last night's final. that marks the end, well, at least for now, of a renewed rivalry on the ice stoked by president donald trump's tariff threats and comments about canada becoming the united states 51st state. but that rivalry was on full display last night in boston, where the crowd at the td garden. booed during the singing of the canadian national anthem, which is the same thing done at sporting events across canada in recent weeks during the sounding of the

star-spangled banner. but last night's rendition of o canada was a bit different, as the singer made a subtle change to lyrics in protest of trump's recent remarks. instead of singing the line true patriot love in all of us command, she's saying true patriot love that only us command. the singer's representative confirmed it was not a flub, and then she posted a photo of the modified lyric written on her hand. she put it up on social media. she referred to that while singing. meanwhile, prime minister justin trudeau added fuel to his ongoing political rivalry with the new trump administration, writing on social media after canada's win you can't take our country and you can't take our game. so, joe, this this hockey tournament really took on a life of its own in the last couple of weeks, bringing in record ratings, fueled by the political rivalry here that trump has forced upon canada. i've been

checking trump has not yet responded to prime minister trudeau. i think we're half expecting a bombing run of nova scotia, but at least not yet from the president. on what a win for canada last night. it was such a heightened atmosphere there in boston. >> listen, it's great for espn ratings. it's great for hockey rivalries. it's just terrible for american geopolitics. i mean, it it's terrible. i mean, you know, donald trump's done a lot of things in one month, right? but you can now put to the list like americans booing o canada and american hockey players actually being the villains when they go to canada. just just a little reminder here that our dear friends to the north, our dear neighbors to the north, share with us the longest

non-militarized border in the world the advantages that that has provided to us since the war of 1812, which is the last time there has been an incursion between the two countries, can't be over estimated. let's bring in to talk about geopolitics and the golden goal there. pablo torre finds out a meadowlark media msnbc contributor, pablo torre. pablo, i just laid it out. i mean, what better friends, what better neighbors can you have than the canadians? but the events of the last month have really stoked the fires and i mean, made this rivalry red hot. talk about it. and what a showdown last night in boston. >> oh look, i stayed up for it. the theater of it. even taking out the geopolitics. just an incredible invention, right? we're we're sort of as a sports world, we're always looking for a new product that doesn't feel

synthetic. all star games have always struggled to capture effort and intent and honestly, humiliation. and this is an invention by hockey, the four nations cup that delivered on all those fronts. now, the geopolitics that you referenced, joe, i'm left wondering, how is it that the united states is finding itself playing the role of ivan drago in every international sporting contest? now, we used to be the good guys. now you have canada, by the way, like canada telling canada, this is our sport, hockey are begging for an uppercut from connor mcdavid. you know, the celebration of this was not merely donald trump giving the pregame pep talk, which was reportedly half about non hockey stuff like golf, which we'll get to in the locker room before the game. it wasn't just about the booing. it was also the idea that wait a minute canada when it comes to hockey, you know again you're spitting into the wind. you're tugging on

superman's cape. why are you setting yourself up for a loss that feels humiliating and granted, yes, this was a close game. it was an incredible game. that goal in overtime winning it. but but look again, the united states joe, as a geopolitical villain punching down in a way that is just it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't really make sense when you add all of it up with a rational mind. >> you know, pablo, i kind of like it when the whole world roots with us, roots for us. i was reminded last night that this was the 45th anniversary of the second greatest sporting event in my lifetime. of course, the first being 2004 alcs as you knew, pablo was coming back down four zero, but al michaels, al michaels with the call. do you believe in miracles? i can still see that. get chills. tear up. i

mean, it was it's remarkable. america as the good guys and the whole world cheering with us as we beat the soviets. it's, you know, we've got such a great hockey team and we've got we've got such, such great guys on that hockey team. for us to be cast now as a bad guys, because we're saying we want to take over other countries is man, the shoe is on the other foot. and i'll tell you what, i kind of preferred lake placid 1980 to. >> this same felt a little bit better when we had some plausible claim to being the underdog. good guys. and now we're setting ourselves up, joe and john, to be the pinata. to be to be the pinata that is also the villain in ways that, yeah, bring us back also to washington, inevitably in a couple of different ways. >> yeah. i heard yesterday from a few of my friends who are canadian who said, you can't be overstated just how the anger in canada towards trump and indeed as you as you just said, pablo,

that we become the bad guys in this particular sports movie. >> well, you know, that kind of happens, jonathan, when you say we're going to take over your country, we want you to. yeah. that does. >> seem like when you call the. >> prime minister, the governor, who could have. >> ever seen who could have ever seen this coming, everybody coming up, a live report from the white house as president trump and his administration continue to slash the federal workforce and their attempts to reshape the government. morning, joe, coming back in just a moment. >> i'm sure. >> you're wondering why your mother and i asked. >> you here tonight. >> it's because it's a buffet. >> of all you can eat. >> butterfly shrimp and sirloin steak. >> yeah, that's the reason. >> i don't get it. >> do you have any idea how. >> much. >> this will. >> cost at other restaurants? >> not really. i'm only six. >> a lot. honey. >> lock it up. >> oh, okay. >> yeah. >> not feeling the graze, but don't want a color. try just for men. control gx gray. reducing shampoo. just shampoo like you do to gradually reduce grains. now boosted with keratin. hair

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and i sink down to the ground. >> well, trump is busy cosplaying as the czar. >> of the lincoln tunnel. >> elon musk. >> is in. >> charge at. >> doge. >> despite the. >> fact that in recent court filings, the white house claims that elon. >> musk is. >> not in charge at doge. >> maybe. >> maybe he's not. >> maybe doge is so chaotic. >> no one is in charge. >> of it. >> it's just like. >> they taped two samurai swords. >> to the hands of the. >> floppy guy at the car. >> wash and turned him loose. >> at the cdc.

>> yesterday on air force one, reporters. >> asked trump if he's. >> going to use. >> elon musk and the. >> doge team to cut. defense spending. and his answer. >> was. >> kind of. >> very weird. >> do you know what they're looking at specifically at the department of defense right now? >> they're looking at everything. >> and are they going to cut more? >> they're looking at it. >> we're going to go. >> into fort knox to make. >> sure the. >> gold is there. okay, okay. >> that wasn't the question. >> so what the hell is trump talking about? follow me. >> down the stupid hole, friends. >> out on the fringe of the human brain, there are some old conspiracy theories about whether the government. >> is being. >> truthful about the amount of. >> gold in the vault, and musk has been. obsessed with these conspiracy. >> theories lately. >> tweeting who is. confirming that gold wasn't stolen from fort. knox and a. >> live stream of fort. >> knox would be fire emoji. >> fire emoji. >> but the. >> inspector is on the case. >> trump continued to. >> baffle the baffled reporters. >> we're going to go into fort. >> knox to. >> make sure the.

>> gold is. >> there, the fabled fort knox, to make sure the gold is there. >> if the. >> gold. >> isn't there, we're going. >> to. >> be very upset. >> and after. >> that. >> we're going to be very upset. and after that, we're. >> going to see if there's really silver. >> at long johns. >> if not, well. >> you. got to check. >> no one's done an audit. >> no one's done an audit. >> in a. long time. >> i'm telling. >> you, if the silver is not there, then i solve that placemat. >> for nothing. >> okay, well, welcome to the fourth hour of morning joe at 6 a.m. on the west coast. good morning. and 9 a.m. in the east coast. you know, jonathan. well, a couple of things here. ronald reagan's aides used to be distressed that he would look at reader's digest. and in reading reader's digest, he would get ideas for policies right now. like, if that's all donald trump read instead of the garbage on x, all of the conspiracy

theories on next that would be like for his for his staff members, that would be a wonderful thing. but so much that gets like so many conspiracy theories that get knocked around on x actually end up coming out of the president's mouth. i mean, he could talk to steve mnuchin. you remember that picture of steve mnuchin and his wife at fort knox back in the in the first term like boring. yeah. exactly. yeah. so i think i think there's still gold at fort knox. but yeah it's just it's an example isn't it. conspiracy theories run wild. >> yeah. in fact steve mnuchin, former treasury secretary, told our friends at cnbc yesterday the gold it's still there. so mission solved. we saved doge. we saved doge. the trick we on to the next. yes. and so but right now the nation turns its lonely eyes toward reader's digest. but also in about an hour's time, we're all going to be watching cpac. the annual

gathering of conservatives will resume for day two. are we? yeah. well, some people will be watching just over the water here in maryland. elon musk helped kick off the first day of the conference by swinging around a tricked out chainsaw, wearing sunglasses indoors and largely speaking incoherently. let's go live now to cnbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander. and peter, we noted earlier that at the same moment that elon musk is waving that chainsaw around, we're seeing even at republican district town halls, voters being upset about these cuts and complaining to gop lawmakers. >> yeah, no. >> jonathan, you're. >> exactly right. >> first, the mass. >> firings and now new fallout constituents. as you note, in some districts, given their republican representatives an earful. >> lashing out. >> at them for supporting the massive federal layoffs and. >> budget cuts by the trump. >> administration and doge. >> of course, elon musk's. >> outside agency. >> as as you just showed. >> musk is celebrating his team's work.

>> president trump's. top lieutenant. >> driving home his. rapid shredding. >> of. >> the. >> federal government. >> this is the chainsaw for bureaucracy. >> elon musk. >> boasting about his. >> department of government efficiency. >> his work slashing jobs. >> and spending. >> this waste is pretty much everywhere. >> so it's. >> like you can. >> close your eyes and you're. >> shooting in any direction. you can't. >> mix. >> you know? >> but some republicans are now facing. constituent pushback over the president and musk's vision. >> what's not reasonable is taking. >> this chainsaw approach. why is this being jammed down the pipe so rush and. >> sloppily taking questions. >> about doj's. >> work this week. >> who is paying for doj's? >> we are looking into that. >> now to. >> find out. >> i don't know the answer. >> that agency, the fraud and abuse. >> that has been discovered already. >> oh. >> and last night, tensions boiled over at. >> a republican. >> congressman's town hall in. >> georgia over the. >> president's executive. orders and. >> budget cuts. >> the people.

>> would like to. >> know what you. >> congressman. >> and your fellow. >> congressman, are going to do. >> to. >> rein in the. >> megalomaniac in the white house. >> the administration's. >> latest cuts coming at the. >> irs, the president's. >> top economic. >> advisor, saying the number of cuts could. exceed 3500, the democrats have warned, could have. >> a. >> catastrophic impact on the tax filing season. >> with some. >> veteran irs workers saying it could affect how. >> quickly you get. >> your refund. >> the work is going. >> to. >> get backed up, and so. >> private citizens. >> are going to be like the irs is not doing their job, and it's. >> because we're getting. >> hollowed out. >> the white house defending all of the layoffs across government. >> we're studying every agency and deciding who to. >> let. >> go and why, and we're doing so very rationally. >> all of it is. a new washington post poll finds president trump has a 45%. approval rating with a majority, 53% disapproving of his job as president. 57% say he's.

>> exceeded his. >> authority, while just 34% approve of elon musk and his handling of the job. the president getting his best marks. >> on immigration. >> with 50% approving, while 48% disapprove. as for those layoffs, the tsa now confirms that more than 240 probationary employees workers hired or promoted within. >> the. >> last year. >> have now. >> been. >> terminated. >> and there are likely. >> more. >> to come after a federal judge ruled the trump administration can move ahead. >> with its mass layoffs. >> at federal agencies, rejecting a suit from labor unions, the judge said president trump's executive orders have, quote, caused disruptions and even chaos in widespread quarters of american society, but added that federal court was not the appropriate venue for the lawsuit. >> joe. >> all right. nbc's peter alexander, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. let's bring in chief white house correspondent for the new york times, peter baker, nbc news national affairs analyst and partner and chief columnist at puck. john heilemann, also

special correspondent for vanity fair, host of fast politics podcast and msnbc political analyst molly jong-fast. peter, let's start with you. we had claire mccaskill on earlier this morning, and i was just referencing you remember it back in 2009, those town hall meetings, barack obama had just won a massive landslide. he had 59 democratic senators. everything was going their direction. then they started debating the obamacare, the affordable care act, and you started seeing these town hall meetings with these popular democrats, starting to answer really tough questions from their constituents. this, of course, is starting to happen. but if you were, claire, are these other members of congress, you had answers because these bills were going through subcommittees and committees and then going on to the house floor. that that congressman

last night, he had no idea. he just had no idea what's going on, because really, very few people have any idea what's going on. and there's a word i'm sorry to keep going here, but there's a word that that one of the constituents said last night that really stood out and that is sloppy. this is so sloppy. this is so haphazard. this this is actually a chainsaw approach. and democrats just have to be over the moon right now with they've got their image of elon musk. he's got the chainsaw held up in the air. and it's a split screen there. and on the other side you have medical research being slashed, workers being cut from the nih. you've got faa workers being cut. you've got tsa workers being cut. you've got the irs agents that deal

with working class and middle class americans who call to get, you know, their refunds in a timely manner. they're being all of this is going on. and democrats finally, it looks like democrats are finally being given some issues that they can really start to work on. >> yeah. i mean, look, you know, there is a legitimate and important debate to have about the size of government and whether an agency is performing well, whether it has the right number of people, too many or too few. all that is true. that's not what's happening here. we're not having a thoughtful debate about the size of government and where things make sense and where they don't. we're just seeing, as he shows with that image at cpac, taking a chainsaw to it. i think that they love that image because it just it makes them look manly and, you know, powerful. and they're taking on the deep state. and that's appealing on some level to a lot of maga republicans. on the other hand, there are a lot of people who voted for trump who do think the government needs to be reined in but don't like as that

constituents say, constituents, said a sloppy, you know, haphazard approach where they're firing the nuclear safety people one day and oops, they have to rehire them the next, or the bird flu people one day are fired. oops. we need to rehire them. that's not a thoughtful and smart way of got going things and the view of a lot of republicans, republicans who think that there ought to be a methodical and important debate here. now, a lot of republicans say, look, you know, we've tried having that over the years didn't work. so let's give this a shot, see what happens. but the political cost could eventually backlash on trump and elon musk. >> you know, i a couple of days ago, john heilemann, i talked about going back to washington for the 30th anniversary of our class of 1994. and there are a lot of us very proud of the fact that we went up there when everybody said, there's no way we could balance the budget. we went up there and with the help of a lot of people, we balance a budget for the first time in a generation. we balanced it four years in a row for the only time over the past 100 years. and i

was struck by what newt gingrich said when he was talking about how that happened. he said it was hard, hard work. it was hard work for the subcommittee members. it was hard work for the committee members. it was hard work for john kasich and the budget committee. he said, you know, people ask us, how did we do it? he said, we it was really hard. it took 235 people all working together, trying to figure out how to balance the budget, keep the economy strong and balance a thousand different interests. right. you had none of that here. and again, the word constituent said last night. sloppy. that's what you've got here. so this idea that republicans, all republicans, want a guy wielding a chainsaw and just slashing nih budgets, slashing us aid budgets. there are some of us who are very proud of what george w bush did with pepfar,

saving 25 million lives in africa. slashing faa, slashing tsa. i'm sorry. i'll just say it. that's not what a lot of republicans voted for donald trump for. right. and 100%, joe. and the thing i keep reflecting on in these moments as you talk about that era and of course, you know, in that era when you guys balance the budget those four consecutive years, you also had something else. you had hard work and political necessity and compromise on the part of bill clinton in the white house who had, you know, realized that if he didn't get on board the balanced budget train, he was going to not get reelected in 1996. and so, you know, that's not here either, right? that that was a the effort, the amount of effort it took to achieve what you guys achieved needed all of that hard work on the republican side. it also needed to have a partner on the other side of the aisle in the

democrats, who many, many of whom did not want to balance the budget. but bill clinton realized the political necessity of it. yeah, yeah, yeah. i just want to say, john, i'm so glad you brought up bill clinton, because we both did. both parties worked together. even the middle of like, political fighting. bill clinton worked with newt gingrich. even in the middle of impeachment. they were calling each other and talking on iraq on on the budget. they continue talking, but also they made tough choices. i got elected in part because i ran against bill clinton's tax increases in 1993. those tax increases in 1993 that elected a lot of us republicans. that helped in balancing the budget, just like in 95 and 96. a lot of people that came in with me lost their elections because they

made a lot of spending cuts that weren't really popular. so you had democrats, bill clinton and democrats making sacrifices, a lot of people losing their political jobs and republicans doing the same thing a couple years later and taken together with parties working together and leon panetta as budget director and john kasich as as the chairman of the budget committee, everybody working together. and a remarkable thing happened. we did something that we haven't done in a century. and so here's the thing about this, joe, that the point that i want to get at is you, you and i and peter baker and molly and pretty much everyone who comes on this show can have a conversation where we all know what we're talking about here. this history is familiar to us. we lived through it. we reported on it. we were in the in the congress. in your case during it, we know this history and it's illustrative. it's illuminating of the of what's

going on now, a lot of these dynamic dynamics in washington are, are we see them recur over and over again throughout history. i'll tell you someone who doesn't know this history, i bet every dollar in your pocket is elon musk, who could not have this conversation. and everything that he does reflects not just a kind of ignorance about how the government works, how to approach making the. if you were serious about trying to take on the size and scope of government in a way that was politically sustainable and humane, and even in some ways pretty radical, you would not do it this way. you would not do it with a chainsaw. so if he knew the history, he wouldn't be going about it this way if he was trying to go about it in good faith. and if he knew the history of our politics, he would know that brandishing a chainsaw at cpac is very popular among a very small part of the republican party. brandishing a chainsaw at cpac is also very popular among a lot of democrat, who will use that in campaign ads going forward. you know, you

live by the chainsaw, die by the chainsaw. that is a guy who does not know the story of george bush and mission accomplished sign and what kind of damage those kind of images could do politically to a party. i just think, you know, this is one of these things where for everyone who's been freaking out about what's been happening here, they're right to freak out. there's a lot of serious bad stuff happening. but, you know, to everything, to everything. there's a season. and as you're starting to see in these town halls, the seasons are about to start changing on trump and elon musk. >> yeah, perhaps more rapidly than expected. and that's certainly how the trump team is creating chaos here at home. now let's move to how they're doing it. overseas security adviser mike wallace was grilled by reporters yesterday about president trump's comments on the war in ukraine, and he dodged the questions. take a look. >> the president. >> has called zelensky a dictator. does he view putin as a dictator? and does he want zelensky out of power? i know he's called for elections. >> look, president trump is

obviously very frustrated right now with president zelensky. the fact that that he hasn't come to the table, that he hasn't been willing to take this opportunity that we have offered, i think he eventually will get to that point, and i hope so very quickly. >> while waltz might not have had an answer to the simple question as to whether trump views putin as a dictator, the new york post sure does. publishing this front page headline today, the murdoch newspaper simply says, president trump, this is a dictator with a picture of putin. this comes as the president's special envoy for ukraine and russia met with volodymyr zelenskyy in kyiv. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel brings us the latest. >> president zelenskyy is changing his tune, suggesting overnight he's now open to discussing a deal. president trump is demanding for ukraine to hand over 50% of its mineral rights in exchange for continued

american support. >> the president. >> after meeting with trump's envoy, retired general keith kellogg. president zelensky gave his nightly address saying economic economy and security must always go hand in hand and the details of the agreements matter. zelensky also laid out what he expects in return, calling for a reliable and clear system of security guarantees that ensure long term protection from russia. american and ukrainian officials tell nbc news the trump administration presented zelensky with the proposed mineral deal last week, giving him an hour to sign it. zelensky refused, saying it didn't make security guarantees explicit. he was told trump would be angry. and president trump did respond angrily, falsely accusing zelensky of being a dictator and now making it clear he wants that deal signed. >> that deal. >> is there anything. >> that you can. >> do to resurrect it.

>> or. >> you know, we'll see what happens, but i'm going to resurrect it, or things are not going to make him too happy. >> in ukraine this morning at a rehabilitation center for soldiers just back from the front lines, some say they feel like they're being squeezed by the united states. but sergeant vladimir chaika doesn't oppose the deal in principle. after what he's seen in combat over the last three years, some critics have said that president trump is exploiting ukraine, is taking advantage of its position right now in order to extract resources. you, as someone who's fought for this country so much, what do you think about that? between two evils, you have to pick the better one, he says. if i have to choose between the united states and the possibility that russia will take over our country, i pick the united states. >> just moments ago, following his meeting with president zelensky, that special envoy, keith kellogg, striking a rather different tone than president trump when it comes to how they

describe the ukrainian leader. kellogg just posted this on social media, a long and intense day with the senior leadership of ukraine, extensive and positive discussions with zelensky, the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war and his talented national security team. so, joe, i mean, that's keith kellogg doing a 180 from what we've heard from trump calling him a zelensky, a dictator. but i think it's telling kellogg, not part of those initial talks with russia. he's someone who is widely disliked in moscow. so this again harkens back to our conversation a few hours ago. sometimes the trump administration in the first term did things very differently than the president himself was much harder on russia. we might be seeing a similar dynamic here. or does trump just simply run roughshod? only time will tell. >> well, like we said a couple of hours ago, look at the people who are around donald trump. and general kellogg has a great reputation as somebody that will

stand and fight for freedom. and that freedom, of course, means pushing back against russian aggression and trying to get a deal that ultimately protects ukraine. as we said, the secretary of state, marco rubio, he is a cold warrior and he earns earns his stripes from his family fleeing communist cuba. same thing. of course, we had mike wallace on earlier. mike wallace has been a cold warrior as well, tough both on russia and also tough on china. and so, you know, peter baker, going back to the first term, i, we always talk about and not just because jonathan is right here with us, but we always talk about that question john asked in helsinki and donald trump saying that he trusted vladimir putin more than his own intel agency. at the same time, things like that were going on that would shock the conscience of,

of anybody that knows anything about foreign policy. donald trump's vice president, mike pence, would be in europe, and he would be delivering a speech against russia that ronald reagan could have delivered. and so it is interesting, and i we always talk about what happened with the republicans in donald trump's first term, passing some of the toughest sanctions on russia yet. so, i mean, the new york post. exactly right. we are dealing with a dictator in, in, in russia. it is going to be interesting to see if donald trump's second term regarding russia plays out like his first term did. >> yeah. i mean, look, as keith kellogg playing the good cop to trump's bad cop and a deliberate way or is there, you know, is he off the reservation? and he's not been i mean, even though he's supposedly the special envoy for ukraine, he's not been the person at the table in saudi arabia with the russians when marco rubio sat down. so a lot

of people assume he's been sidelined or marginalized. and so when he says what he said in that post today is that him sort of pushing back a little bit, or is that him? you know, helping, in his view, helping trump try to mitigate the damage that he's caused by by going after zelensky? because look what this has done. this has been good for zelensky domestically in terms of his own political standing. this has helped consolidate support behind zelensky again against trump, because a lot of ukrainians, even, who might not be happy with zelensky right now, certainly don't like the way trump has characterized him or characterized their role, their responsibility for the war, as if somehow they invaded themselves. >> so this brings us nicely to your latest piece for vanity fair titled trump world's war on words. in it, you write in part this it feels ironic to talk about the importance of language in maga rhetoric when donald trump uses so many malapropisms as shorthand to convey his ideas. but while trump may not be particularly careful about every word or any word really, his administration and allies

are laser focused on their intrinsic power. they've used phrases like biological reality and maiming to dispute transgender people's existence, and to rail against gender reassignment surgery. they disingenuously use words like energy emergency to ramp up offshore drilling. trump and his allies understand the power of words, and his administration is quickly becoming one that's obsessed with perverting their meaning. and molly, we're seeing the war the trump world has declared on the associated press because of language. gulf of america versus gulf of mexico. and then as as we just highlighted now, you know, using the word dictator, you know, for vladimir zelensky. tell us more about what you wrote. >> so there's a lesson here for democrats, which i do think is useful, which is that trump, when he was on the trail, he spoke so much. >> he did so. >> many interviews that his people got so. used to his

talking that they were able to understand what he was saying with shorthand. so, for example, they knew that bacon, right, was a. >> sort of weave. >> remember that phrase? >> a weave on inflation. and that was in a way. >> that is a good lesson for democrats, right? >> that if you. >> want to. try and message against donald trump, you need to be. >> messaging all the time. >> not one interview. >> a week. >> you know. 15 interviews a day. >> you need to be out. >> there flooding the zone. so that, i would say, is. >> a way. >> he's used language. >> very effectively. now, that said, there are words that this. administration uses. and if you look at. >> these executive orders, they are peppered. >> through them. >> things like patriotic education. >> right. >> what is patriotic education mean? >> well, we know what it doesn't. >> mean, right? it doesn't. >> mean. >> you know, sort of the. truth about some. >> of the parts of. >> american history. >> that do not fit the trump narrative. >> and i think that is. really important. and i would.

>> say that the i. >> think the rallying cry in this piece is that we. should look at language the way we use it, for sure, and the way that trump world uses it. >> you know, john heilemann, let let's let's go back to foreign policy for a minute. and. it just seems like this is one of those issues that even republicans may not be willing. all republicans, especially senators, may not be willing to follow donald trump down that path. they certainly weren't in the first term, and many of them were just as scared of donald trump politically in the first term as they are now. but my god, i can tell you my family turned in part from being democrats to republicans because my dad was a cold warrior. and i mean, this i mean, that was the defining issue for so many of these people who are republicans

now. and so it it i think, i think it just the ideological contortion may even be too great for them to suddenly say, vladimir putin is the good guy. and zelensky who got invaded is the dictator and bad guy. what are you hearing? well, i think it's a big moment, joe, for the reasons you're saying. i mean, look, when you talked earlier about the fact that that during the first trump term that there were these tough sanctions on russia, to a large extent, that was was led by republicans in congress who, who, who passed those those sanctions through the congress. they were passed legislatively. they they also were pushing back on trump's softness on putin, trying to keep him from indulging in his worst instincts with respect to putin. and i think the thom tillis thing is striking. we saw that, you know, he where he, you know, came out and really broke very publicly with trump yesterday on this question. i think it's striking because

tillis is up for reelection in two years, has toed the line pretty much across the board on all the trump nominees, many of whom, you know, thom tillis understands that tulsi gabbard and kash patel and bobby kennedy junior that these are not nominees that he would vote for if it was outside the political context, but because he fears trump and fears being primaried, he went along with the administration. i believe in all of those cases. but here he is on this issue, deciding to break, and i think it is consequential, and not that suddenly there's going to be a massive rupture in the republican party is going to suddenly find collective courage. but i can tell you that many republicans, you and i know in the united states senate are have been sitting around this week looking at the cover of the economist magazine, saying europe's worst nightmare with trump and putin at the end of a negotiating table and a bunch of empty seats, reading in the financial times that after the munich security conference,

european diplomats being quoted saying america is the threat to europe. now, these people, a lot of them don't have any time for joe biden. but the one thing they liked about joe biden was the way he strengthened nato over his four years in office. and i think they are very uncomfortable, i mean, profoundly uncomfortable with what they've seen on this front with donald trump this week. well, profoundly uncomfortable. and molly, we're talking about also handing china. is this a dream for china? you know, china has been trying to improve their relations with the eu for years now. china has been trying to build trade relations with the eu for years now. it's not just the united states. we're just not in a position to say, take what we're dishing out or else this is a multipolar world now, as powerful and strong as the united states economy is, as i say all the time, you know, the eu has like a $26 trillion gdp every year as well. add britain on top of that. they're up to 30

at japan at us. i mean, there's a lot of money out there. there's a lot of trade out there. and china would love to lap it up. >> well, i think what claire mccaskill said earlier was a good point. a lot of these republican senators sort of know what's right, and they've given away a lot of their power by rubber stamping a lot of these nominees. now, the question is, will they try to take it back? i'm not convinced they will, but certainly that would be, you know, if congress legislates, then that solves a lot of these issues. but will they? that's a real question. >> john heilemann and chief white house correspondent for the new york times, peter baker, thank you both. terrific conversation there. coming up ahead here on morning joe, elon musk's department of government efficiency doge is now going after team that regulates one of the billionaire's own companies. we'll tell you which one. plus, we're going to get a live report from spring training. yes.

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>> call 183373354495. >> or visit homeserve.com. >> welcome back. it is time to talk baseball. newly signed new york mets star juan soto is putting his record breaking contract to work, purchasing a new chevy tahoe suv for teammate brett beaty to thank him for his number 22. beaty gave it up to soto so soto could have his longtime number. the new york mets posted the surprise on social media. >> no you didn't. no you didn't. >> my guy. >> my guy. >> hey, man. thank you. so, you know, i told you i got him a

little gift. set it up. for you. >> check it out. >> it's all yours. >> baseball players are very particular about their numbers. soto has worn the number 22 since he entered the league back in 2018. he, of course, signed a contract with the mets in december worth over $760 million across 15 years. brett beattie played for the mets in 2022. he makes nowhere near that much. meanwhile, the mets are set to play their first game of the preseason tomorrow afternoon against the houston astros in florida's grapefruit league. and that's where we find nbc news correspondent jesse kirsch, who joins us live just across the coast over there in tampa. spring training is here. and, jesse, some changes afoot. >> that's right. jonathan, by the way, if you. >> want my number, i'll take a car. >> any day. >> of the week. so. >> above all. >> it's great to be here in this town again. >> baseball is fully back in many ways. >> spring training. >> in some. for some fans. >> this is. >> as exciting.

>> as the actual season. >> today here. >> in tampa this. >> afternoon, we'll see the. >> yankees and the rays. >> doing battle. >> and as you mentioned, this is. >> ushering in a new era for major league baseball with. >> changes to spring training. >> that fans have never seen before. >> infield drawn in two two pitch for thrower lifts one high and deep to left field. going back, he looks up. it's a three run home run. this morning. >> major leaguers. >> are once again. >> swinging for. >> the fences. the defending. >> world series. >> champion los angeles. >> dodgers leading off the spring. >> training schedule. >> coming up short. >> against the chicago cubs. >> in a game. >> that made. >> mlb history. >> well, good. we see. >> it in the very first inning. >> there you go. >> for the. >> first. >> time ever. >> an mlb. player challenged. >> an umpire's call. >> here's the oh. >> one pitch. >> this was called. >> a ball. >> then cubs pitcher. >> cody pettite. >> appealed and the. >> call was. overturned to. >> a strike. >> the automated. >> ball strike. >> system. >> or abs. >> has already. >> been used. >> in the minors. >> but now it's stepping up to the. major league plate.

>> for a spring. training test run. >> teams get two challenges and keep them if successful. >> only the pitcher. >> catcher or batter. >> can. >> challenge the umpire's call, and they have. >> to do so immediately. >> i like it because especially in the big spot, you want to get the call right. >> thursday's game. did not. >> feature reigning. >> national league mvp. >> shohei ohtani. >> the dodgers. >> two way superstar wasn't in the lineup. >> as. >> a. >> hitter. >> and he's still working. >> his way back. >> to the pitcher's mound. >> after undergoing. >> elbow surgery. >> over a year ago. still. >> ohtani. >> speaking through his. >> translator. >> already has. >> his sights set on a repeat in. >> the fall classic. >> the reason why i signed with the dodgers is to win the world series every single year for the next nine years. >> but the competition. >> will be fierce. >> this offseason. >> former new york yankees slugger juan. >> soto moved across town. >> joining the new. >> york mets for a jaw dropping $765 million over. >> 15 years. >> the largest. contract in the

history of team sports. >> i want to keep winning. i want to keep feeling that the same way i've been feeling since. >> day one. >> and as hope. >> springs eternal for every club with world. >> series dreams, fans. >> are ready too. >> i actually just. >> love baseball. there's just something magical about being at the park. >> there's lots. >> of action. >> ahead, including. >> right. >> here at. >> george steinbrenner field. >> this is known as the spring training home. >> for the new. >> york yankees, but for. this regular season. >> it will be the home. >> of the tampa bay. >> rays because their ballpark. tropicana field, was. badly damaged during hurricane milton in the fall. and, to quote john fogerty, put me in, coach, i'm ready to play. i'm going. >> to toss this. >> back to you, jonathan, and you send me the car. >> keys instead. i'm ready. well done, well done. all around the wordplay and catching the ball. nbc's jesse kirsch on a dream assignment. jesse, thank you. and joe, i'll say on the automated ball strike system there. i'm for it. i'm not ready

for full fledged robot umps, but like this, a tennis style challenge system i'm in. but also, we have some breaking news right now, joe. a further sign that it is 2020. important chaos is here, both abroad and at home. the new york yankees have announced they're changing their decades long policy that bans facial hair. now, to be clear, you could have. there are some legendary yankee mustaches in years past, but you could never have more than that. but now, joe, the yankees are allowing what they call a well-groomed beard. now, who gets to decide ? i'm not sure. my suspicion is it will be the back page of the new york post. >> i mean, what would montgomery burns say? i mean, this is this is this is shocking news. but yeah, i just i want to keep talking about the red sox. but i will say this, that i also we've seen so many i mean, umps do their best. it's hard i mean balls coming in 97, 98, 99 miles

an hour, very hard to do their job. so i understand it. but man, there is no reason why one game after another should be decided by bad calls. bad bad non-strike calls or otherwise. so i am, i'm all ready for that. if they only want to give them a couple of challenges a game, that's fine. but we all remember. no, nobody's nobody's blaming anything. but we all remember in 2021 we're up two zero against against the astros. game three. you know a bad call kept us out of the world series that year as well. not that i'm remembering, but yeah, it's about time. yes i. >> hope that bad call, which indeed we coughed up the alcs because of it, the game turned, the series turned. i hope that was one of the driving forces behind this change. i'm for it. we'll see how it plays out when spring training continues. but i think this is a change that's coming and coming soon to major league baseball. all right. we have to set baseball aside for

the moment to return to the news. president trump is reportedly expected to dissolve the leadership of. get this, the united states postal service, six people familiar with the plans tell the washington post the president will sign an executive order to fire members of the postal service's governing board and put it in commerce department control, the post reports. board members will likely file a lawsuit to block the move, as it could be a violation of federal law. meanwhile, while trump works with elon musk to make deep cuts at federal agencies, the washington post is also reporting that a small government team regulating autonomous cars is getting cut nearly in half. that specialized unit is part of the agency tasked with ensuring safety on america's roads, which, according to the post, has in recent years become increasingly involved in overseeing new driver assistance technologies and fully robotic vehicles,

including investigations of safety risks in autopilot and full self-driving technologies. from what else? musk's tesla ev company. no surprise there. let's bring in the co-anchor of cnbc squawk box and a new york times columnist, andrew ross sorkin. tell us about these cuts. but i say others have noted this, that so many of these agencies that musk has initially targeting, well, a lot of them have had open questions or investigations into some musk's companies. >> i think there's two. >> pieces to. >> this, and i. >> don't know if. >> what i'm. >> about to say. >> is going to. >> be unpopular. i think. there is the. >> perception piece. >> and the credibility. >> of what. >> doge is doing, which is to. >> say. you want this all being. >> done. >> with transparency. >> and i. think in the. >> instance of. >> agencies with which. >> doge and elon. musk's own. >> companies are being regulated. >> by them, you. probably want. >> some kind of third. >> party to. >> be making the decisions. i think. >> that's a big issue, and i think it's. a important. >> issue that is being. >> raised in the public conversation. >> having said that.

>> i think. >> there's a second issue. >> which is not getting, i. >> don't know if enough air time, but. >> is not. >> necessarily being thought about. >> in the same context. >> which. >> is, you know. >> in most of. >> private business. >> in america. >> on an almost. annual basis. there is, dare i use the word. >> culling, but there is a culling of. >> oftentimes the. >> bottom 5%. >> of performers. >> in some cases. >> the bottom. >> 10% of performers. and historically, within the context of business. or say, within the context. >> of public. >> government work. >> there has. >> not. >> been that kind of culling, meaning there is very rarely firings of underperformers and the like. >> so i don't think it is completely. >> crazy to consider. >> how how. >> the government actually. operates in terms of the number of. >> employees it has. >> now, the question. >> is, can you get rid of those underperformers if in. >> fact they are. >> underperformers and replace

them with better performers? are we doing this simply. >> to. >> get. >> rid of people? >> totally. and then. >> of course there is the conflict issue. >> but i only say that because i think right now. >> there's a lot of these. things are. >> being conflated. and i think we need to almost in some ways. >> separate them. well, you know, jack welch obviously famously would always talk about getting rid of the bottom 10% of the performers in a company. i actually talked to a top ceo who said, that's an absolutely terrible idea. he completely disagreed with that. but you can have that debate, right? i think the problem here is we've been showing clips from the town hall meeting out of georgia. republican congressman, i know a constituent constituent talking about how do you do this? like this is sloppy. you know, andrew, this is the thing you always hear people say, oh, i wish we could just get like a ceo to come in and run government more efficiently then everything would be. okay. first of all, that's never proven to be the case, right? but but here you have elon musk, who is

again, he's taking a chainsaw approach. he's not going after, you know, the he's not they're not going down. say we're going to get rid of the bottom 10%. yeah. he's bragging about these you know indiscriminate cuts. and it's the image. it's the. image that. >> we're looking at. now that is right. i mean you look. >> at that picture, it's not just the image, it's the lack of transparency. not only do we have no idea what what he's doing, unfortunately, even they don't understand what they're doing because they will fire people that hold extraordinarily important positions in a nuclear agency and then have to scramble to try to get them back. they will fire people who who are trying to alleviate, you know, the spread of bird flu and then have to desperately try to get them back again. it's sloppy, i think, even for republicans, even for small government, conservatives like me got no problem calling the workforce.

but let's do it in a smart, intelligent, commonsense way. >> i think that's the most important piece of this. how do you do it conflict. >> free. >> and how do you do it in a smart, intelligent way? and i think. but and here's a very interesting. >> practical question. >> i think one of the reasons you're seeing them rush. >> to do this. >> and doing this. >> as. >> fast as they're doing. >> it is, there is a. >> view politically in washington. >> that if. >> you don't do it fast. >> effectively. >> you get then pushed back. >> on all of it. >> it's a. >> very i just. >> just from a very practical perspective. it's not something. >> necessarily there's the. >> way i think we all want to do it, and then the. way it's being done. >> all right. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin much more to say on this in the days ahead. andrew. thank you. have a good weekend. still ahead here on morning joe, we'll be joined by some of the cast and the director of the new drama ex husbands. that's drama ex husbands. that's straight ahead. morning, joe, be experience advanced technology in the buick envision. (♪♪) equipped with the largest-in-class ultrawide 30-inch diagonal display

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that's something i want to believe. [skateboard sounds] >> and is the perfect balance of. >> modern. >> style. >> and durability. >> find yours at msnbc presents a new podcast hosted. >> by. >> jen psaki. each week, she talks. >> to some of the biggest names in democratic. >> politics. >> with the. >> biggest ideas for how democrats. >> can win again. >> the blueprint with jen psaki. >> listen now. >> we're going to start with. >> breaking news. >> on. >> capitol hill. >> mounting questions over the future of tiktok in the us. >> president trump has promised to carry out the largest deportation force in. >> american history. the verge of international outrage following. suggestion that. >> the us take control of gaza. >> congressional progressive. >> caucus calling. >> for elon musk to be. >> fired from his position. >> reporting from. >> philadelphia. >> el paso. >> in. >> the. >> palisades. >> virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. >> we're getting a divorce. >> your. >> mother and i. you think

you're. >> going to be happy you're alone? >> who says i got to be alone? >> is there someone else? >> not at the moment. but say i got 30 good years left in me. >> 30, 20. >> 25. >> you'll be 110. >> did you. >> have a chance. >> to. >> look everything. >> over yet? i'd rather rip the band-aid off. >> well, after 35 years, it doesn't feel so. >> much like a. >> band-aid as it does my own flesh. >> we can't. >> break up together. >> oh, i am just a vagabond. a drifter. >> dad. >> where are you going? >> callum! >> dad, we are going to tulum this weekend. our next. >> bachelor party. >> i didn't know you guys would be there. >> with everything that you're going through. >> you sort of present as, like, a bit needy. >> that's interesting. >> i. >> i don't. >> see. >> myself that way. >> that was the look at the new movie titled ex husbands. the film follows peter pierce, a middle aged dentist who is getting divorced from his wife of 35 years and whose own parents are divorcing after 65

years of marriag to cope, peter tags along with his two sons on one of their bachelor parties in mexico. much to their dismay. joining us now, the star and executive producer of the film, emmy and golden globe nominated actor griffin dunne, director and writer noah pritzker is here, as well as actors james norton and miles heizer, who play the sons of griffin's character. thank you all, gentlemen, for being here. griffin, we'll start with you. talk to us. what sort of drew you to this story, and what sort of messages are you looking to convey to the audience? >> well, i. >> mean. >> very rarely does. >> a script. >> require a. >> guy my age to. >> carry an entire movie. >> and. >> and in this. >> it really spoke to what it's like. >> to be. >> the father of a grown children. you know. the journey. >> doesn't end when they. >> get out of college. >> you know, being being a

parent is a. lifelong profession. and, you know. >> my the my miles and james who. >> play my sons, you know, they're dealing. >> with their own struggles and their own lives. >> i'm dealing with mine. i've just never seen a. >> movie that. >> kind of takes. >> on. >> this very. >> adult but real situation. >> noah. >> yes. >> okay. >> so this was. >> a little bit. >> inspired by your own real life. talk to us. >> yes. >> my parents. >> decided to. >> separate after. 35 years. >> and i. >> was sort. of struck by the. bravery and sadness. >> and absurdity of it. >> and the film. opens with. this scene between griffin and. >> the great. >> richard benjamin, where griffin's character is learning that his his own father is, is going. >> to strike out on. >> his own. >> and it was. >> kind. of just curious about. >> these guys of. >> all different ages. >> kind of going through the same. >> thing together and trying to figure. >> out how. to be on their own journeys as adults, but. also try. >> and be. >> there for each other. >> and kind of the discomfort of

that. >> james and miles, how did you guys decide to get involved in this movie? >> well, it was two months in mexico. >> that was the draw for me. and also. >> obviously these amazing creatives. >> i mean. >> yeah. >> the script. >> as griffin. >> said. >> is. >> just very special. >> and noah. >> noah's taste, it's very understated. >> it's a kind of. >> work which. >> i love. >> and yeah, as these guys said, it feels. >> like a universal story. and it's just very. >> touching and very. >> very funny. >> it's all. >> on the page. >> and when. >> you get. >> a gift. >> of a. >> script like. >> that, you want. >> to jump in. >> wow. >> that's true. >> yeah, i think i found it very interesting to have. >> a gay. character with his father and have their. dynamic not really be about that, and it be about. >> what the. >> dynamic is with just a parent, with a child. and i. >> feel like that's sort of rare. >> with gay characters. and i found that very interesting and exciting, and it was wonderful.

>> griffin, you play a dentist? >> yes. >> we come from these bohemian families. >> i find it a little exciting to get. >> to play a dentist. >> discuss. >> yeah. >> no years. >> of research. >> yeah. >> and. >> you know, i. >> was just sort. of making it. up as i went along. but i did. >> that thing that we've all done where you put the. >> glue in the. >> thing where. to get. >> the indentation, and. >> and i just sort of improvised. >> of talking. >> because dentists. >> always. >> want to talk to you. >> yes. >> as soon. >> as. >> record. >> and it was really fun. i just wish i could have used the gas. >> i love my dentist. i think. >> it's and it's a very. >> hard you have to carve a tooth. >> talk to me about this. >> were so i know about about writing about your own life and how that. can make people really mad. were they mad? were they not mad? and talk to me about, you know, did they see themselves? did they have edits? i mean. >> no. >> they don't have. >> a note. >> giving right powers. i think. >> it's.

>> my second movie. >> i think the first movie. >> there was more. >> of kind of sorting. >> that out. >> of having a writer in the family. and i. >> think this time. >> around. >> i think there was some more distance. >> between what. >> inspired it. >> and. >> then understanding that these were. characters that i wrote. and then these guys played and brought their own experience. >> and i. >> think there's a little. >> healthier separation. >> some some. >> years in. >> but that's. >> coming from me. they might have. >> a very different. >> take on that. >> the new movie ex husbands, is playing in theaters nationwide right now. griffin dunne, noah pritzker, james norton and miles heizer. thank you all. we really appreciate it. thank you. and finally this morning today we're remembering the legacy of malcolm x, 60 years to the day since his assassination, the prominent civil rights leader was giving a speech at the aberdeen ballroom in uptown manhattan when he was shot and killed. born malcolm little in may of 1925, he rose to prominence during the civil rights movement. though some saw his approach to activism as

being more radical than in comparison to doctor martin luther king junior, malcolm preached the ideals of black economic autonomy, black self-defense, and black pride. his assassin, a man named thomas hagen, was sentenced to 20 years to life for shooting the civil rights icon. malcolm x's ideals and speeches would later set the foundation for the black nationalist movement. certainly, his legacy lives on today. that does it for us this morning. thank you for watching today and all week long. we'll see you bright and early on monday. bright and early on monday. cabrera picks up the coverage ♪♪ with fastsigns, create factory grade visual solutions to perfect your process. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement™.

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