>> well, you know, he's got unlimited means to do so. i guess time will tell. and again, i just hope that people are paying attention out there and watching this closely. if people want to learn more about this race, i invite them to visit my campaign website, crawford for. and help out and get engaged. i think people across our country should be really worried when somebody like elon musk is going after a state supreme court, if it can happen here, it can happen anywhere. >> susan crawford, thank you for joining me, helping us understand this important race to watch. that, of course, does it for me tonight. chris hayes will be back next week. and i'll be back on sunday at noon. monday at eight. the rachel maddow show starts right now. hey, rachel happy friday. >> hey, jen. >> happy friday indeed. >> thank you for. >> sticking with that wisconsin supreme court story. that is a such an important and interesting and sort of perverse. story that the courts.

>> are being. >> impacted that way. i'm so. >> glad you've been. >> on it. >> perverse is such a good way of describing it. ari berman last night, he's been reporting on this a lot. also warns this could happen in other places, so it's an important one to watch, even though it seems like a small one. it's an important one. >> yes. >> yeah, exactly. >> it's one of those things where you actually need. >> to turn the telescope around the other way to see how. >> bad. >> to see how. >> big. >> it is. it is potentially. >> a huge deal. jen, thank you very much. have a great weekend. looking forward to seeing your show on sunday. all right. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. >> really happy. >> to have you here. happy friday. >> there is so much to. >> talk. >> about tonight. >> there's so much to cover. when we had. >> our news meeting this afternoon. >> we had enough. >> news in. >> the like, things. >> we could put on the show column to do. >> 17 shows. >> but naturally, because it's me. >> i got to start. >> with something weird. all right. >> when the. >> new president. decided to hand over a big part of running the government to his largest

campaign. >> donor. >> that meant. >> inevitably, that. >> the united states government would soon start. doing lots and lots and. >> lots and lots and lots. >> of favors for. >> that campaign. >> donor and. >> his businesses. >> and taking government. action against his business rivals. >> et cetera. >> it is was very easy. >> to predict. >> it is. >> a dynamic that is as. >> old as time. >> and so we're going to. >> talk about. >> some of that tonight. >> but in. >> addition to that. >> donor being invited into the government. >> and then the government starting to do things for the donor and his. >> businesses. turns out it also cuts in the opposite. >> direction as. >> well, in terms of. >> what the. >> public gets to. >> say about this arrangement. because if you think about it, what we've. >> got now. >> thanks to donald. >> trump essentially. >> ceding his presidency. >> to. >> his top campaign donor. >> what we've got now is somebody who really does appear to be mostly running. >> the government. >> somebody who's definitely. destroying big, big parts of the government. but he's doing those things. >> he's taking.

>> that. >> incredibly. >> incredibly controversial, destructive government role. >> while he simultaneously is also. >> running a bunch of companies. >> including the. big one that accounts for. >> most of his. >> fortune, a company that is very much a public facing company. >> not just. >> in the stock. >> market. >> but also. >> on in. >> terms of, you. >> know, storefronts and. >> and. >> the. >> nation's roads. that dynamic. >> the fact that he is taking this government. >> role, this incredibly controversial. >> and destructive. >> government role, while he is also the ceo and. >> largest shareholder of tesla. >> the. >> car company. >> that has turned out to provide. >> a quite. >> unique opportunity. >> for public. >> feedback on. his actions in the government. >> did you know. >> that the tailgate of a tesla. >> cybertruck is a. >> perfectly flat, light colored, sharp edged rectangle?

>> basically, it's. >> a projector screen. >> if you have. >> a projector. >> and you shine. >> the. >> projector at. >> the tailgate. >> it works. >> really well. like it's a screen. road and track magazine today highlights a. >> new. >> effort that's been taking shape on. >> tiktok this week, in which people are. >> apparently driving. >> around at night. >> at night is crucial for the projector. >> part of this. >> driving around at night looking for tesla cybertrucks. and then they project things on the tailgate. >> like this one. tesla cybertruck, the most recalled. >> truck of. >> 20 in. >> 2024. projected on the back of that truck. and there's. >> there's. >> a bunch. >> of these that are way too crude. >> for me to show. >> on television. but they. >> are. >> circulating widely on tiktok. >> some of them have. >> have. millions of views already. this one. says no, the. >> price of eggs. aren't falling, but the price of. >> this piece of junk sure is. >> and then the k falls off.

>> the junk. this one says, hey, don't hate me. >> musk sold me this. s box. >> and the. >> effer stole my social. security number. this one says figures the guy. >> who made a truck shaped. >> like a coffin. >> gets pleasure out. >> of killing sudanese children. >> that. >> presumably is. >> about musk's. chest pounding. >> glee over, in his words, feeding usaid into a woodchipper. while usaid in fact does provide aid. to prevent starvation. >> among. >> millions of kids in sudan, this one's just a playground taunt. honestly. >> musk. >> this truck really is like you. and then it says tons of hype. underwhelming in bed. get it? it's a joke about the truck bed. >> i know.

>> yeah, like. >> i said, there's. >> a. >> bunch of these i should not show on tv. a bunch of them making, like, crude jokes about what this big truck is. compensating for. references to elon musk's stiff armed salute on inauguration day, which he says was not. a nazi salute. but then he followed that immediately with lots of jokes on his social media platform about how hilarious nazis are. but again, this this. projection prank that's taking shape on tiktok. these videos only started appearing about a week ago, but they've already got millions of views. road and track reports today that. >> the comments on. >> the videos are overwhelmingly supportive of the pranksters quote, and many are begging for more videos. so that's happening. this was a protest today in houston, texas, at one of the tesla dealerships in that big city. it's one of a lot of protests we have seen. >> at tesla. >> showrooms and tesla

dealerships, both in in red states like texas and in blue states. this, for example, was wednesday this week in in san francisco, northern california. >> the message. >> for musk tonight, a protest. outside a. >> tesla showroom in san francisco. people frustrated and fearful. >> of the future. >> ready to stop what. >> they're calling. >> the looting of public services to. >> benefit the ultra rich. >> it is part of. >> a nationwide. effort to push. >> back and save services as layoffs and cuts continue in dc. nbc bay area's gia vang. >> is. >> in san francisco. >> this corner of van ness and o'farrell, taken over by federal workers and allies. the location deliberate outside of a tesla store. >> we have the power to. break tesla. >> which is where most of elon. >> musk's wealth comes from. we have the power to undo it. we have the power to not cooperate. >> the same. >> day as that protest in. >> san francisco, there was a really big protest outside the

washington, d.c, headquarters of spacex of elon musk's space exploration company. protesters blocking traffic and shutting down the streets there. >> hey hey. ho ho ho. >> elon musk. >> is not to. >> know some. >> new video tonight, as demonstrators marched to the. >> dc headquarters. >> of. >> elon musk's spacex, protesting what they call his. >> takeover of. >> government, calling it a direct. >> attack on. >> the. >> american people. >> this is a. >> look at. >> the march. towards the spacex. headquarters in dc. >> about two blocks away from the. wilson plaza in downtown. >> and these. >> protesters are chanting, right now, elon musk has got to. >> go again. that's just over the last couple. >> of days in washington and in texas and in northern california. but the. >> world headquarters. >> of. >> musk's spacex. >> company is in hawthorne. >> california. >> which is in in los angeles, actually right near the airport, right near lax. next weekend,

march 1st, there is expected to be what looks like it might be a large scale protest at that spacex world headquarters building in los angeles, given that that's in l.a. and it's in a location that's just easy for a lot of people to get to. and honestly, given that they're giving people a week in advance, heads up that they are going to do that protest on march 1st, i'm guessing that that might end up being the largest scale demonstration yet, targeting the president's top campaign, donor, targeting musk and whatever it is he thinks he's doing to the us government. that one protester who we saw there in california, explaining in that clip from local news explaining that most of elon musk's net worth is tied up in his car company. that is correct. the vast bulk of his wealth is based on his shares in his his car company, tesla. tesla shares

have dropped 20% in value since inauguration day. tesla sales in europe have taken huge hits recently, down 40 or 50% or more in the largest markets in europe overall in the last year. >> globally. >> electric vehicle sales are up 25%, but tesla sales are down 1% and down 1% may not seem like that big a deal, even as the overall market for that type of vehicle is going up. but consider that that -1% of that drop in tesla sales this year follows the last two years in which tesla sales were up 38% and up 40%, and now this year, they're minus one. now, how does that kind of thing affect his ultimate role in what he's doing to our government, and what he thinks of his public image and

what he's making the public think of him? i don't know, but i think it's i think it's i think the most reasonable thing to expect is that it's going to be unpredictable, because i think there's a lot of weird variables at play here. i mean, obviously this is a personal crusade of his to destroy as much of the constitutional republic as he can without any regard at all for him having any legitimate government authority or following any laws. the personal dynamic, in addition, between this campaign donor and the president himself is very unusual, given that the president seems to have personally empowered this guy without actually giving him a government job. so the personal dynamic between them is all that elon musk has to stand on in terms of what he is doing to our government. the dynamic between them is weird, in which the president is effectively sidelined while elon musk takes center stage. the president, in contrast, appears to be weak and sort of beside the point. while his campaign donor regularly

upstages him and talks over him both in interviews and in the oval office. i mean, that would be hard to take for even the least egotistical president. it remains to be seen how we'll play out with this one. along those lines, i have to say this. this is also very strange, late breaking news. i'm not quite sure what to do with this at all, but you should know, cnn was first to report today that the trump administration has made an unusual decision with regard to elon musk's phalanx of private, personal bodyguards. now, nbc has not confirmed this, but cnn is reporting, based on three law enforcement sources, that the administration had the us marshals service officially deputize members of elon musk's team of private bodyguards, and that may sound like kind of a bureaucratic designation, but one practical consequence of that is that the marshals service may now allow musk's team of personal bodyguards to

carry weapons on federal property loaded weapons, cnn reports. quote, some people close to trump's white house have been taken aback by the scale of security that has surrounded elon musk since he became a regular presence in trump's orbit last year. musk's security detail rivaled only that of the president himself, the sources observed. but now, with this decision by the us marshal service, now trump and musk, when they're in the same place, like in the white house or on other federal property, they're both going to be surrounded by equally huge phalanxes of armed guards. one set of them, the secret service, presumably loyal to trump, and the other set also armed but private and loyal to musk. but everybody's going to have their weapons. sure, that's not weird at all. that's definitely not like monty python crossed with

shakespeare at all. what could possibly go wrong? donald trump has thus far spent ten of his 31 full days in office at one of his golf clubs, ten of the 31 days donald trump has not taken a foreign trip since he's been back in the white house. he has signed a grand total of one bill. he has taken an almost cartoonishly outsized interest in posing with big maps that, say, gulf of america on them. and although the white house then picked a fight with the associated press, trying to force the ap to use that terminology rather than use the gulf of mexico, which is what it is today. in an interview when trump was asked about that, he appeared sort of confused. he didn't seem to even understand that his white house had banned the associated press, in fact, saying in an interview today that they could come back whenever they want, even though

is the one who supposedly banned them. i mean, when president trump isn't playing golf, he has taken multiple meetings about his golf investments. he has gone to the super bowl. he had somebody drive him around the track at the daytona 500. we literally had him drive around the track. i mean, i'm just going to go out on a limb here and say he is not the busiest man in the world. he appears to be sort of decorative at this point, while the person who's really working double time to make the government actually do things appears to be his top campaign donor, who is getting all the attention and all the credit. and while trump is, you know, playing race cars in golf and enjoying the worst approval ratings of any new president in the history of polling, and they are getting worse with every passing day. meanwhile, here's just a partial list of the things that elon musk and his own companies have somehow reaped from the us government. while trump, trump, trump was,

you know, putting headline justice department to drop discrimination case against elon musk's spacex. the justice department had filed the case against spacex in august 2023, accusing the company of violating federal law in its hiring practices yesterday, quote, the justice department said it intended to file a notice of dismissal with prejudice, which means prosecutors would not be able to file these charges. again. the motion did not say while the case why the case was being dropped. so check that one off his list. headline doge employee cuts fall heavily on agency that regulates musk's tesla, a small government team regulating the sort of autonomous cars that elon musk says represent the future of tesla. his car company is getting cut nearly in half by the musk led us doge service. check that one off his list. the national highway transportation safety administration investigation in 2023 led to a national highway transportation safety administration

investigation in 2023 led to a recall of 2 million tesla vehicles. the same agency disclosed in april that it had documented numerous deadly crashes involving tesla autopilot. now, thanks to elon musk's doge, that same agency, the nhtsa, is losing about 10% of its workforce. check that one off the list. tesla, i should note this year plans to put fully autonomous vehicles on the road this year. and if you keep gutting the agency that regulates that sort of thing, who'll be there to stop them? who'll be able to stop them before the crosswalk? here's another headline. fate of rivian $6.6 billion federal loan now hangs in the balance. fortune magazine helpfully nuts up the key point at the top of this one quote, georgia governor brian kemp says he does not know whether the trump administration will honor the contracts of the biden administration. quote, if the loan is canceled, tesla ceo

elon musk stands to benefit the most. check rivian off the list. who needs that competitor? this comes after the trump administration already cut off federal funds for the national electric vehicle charging network, which leaves elon musk's tesla unchallenged as the largest charging network in the country. never mind that he took huge u.s. government subsidies to build tesla and to build that charging network now. now that he's done that and he's the biggest game in town, the trump administration is pulling up the ladder so nobody else can compete with him. nice work if you can get it, check that one off the list. the faa chairman who grounded musk's starship rocket program after it catastrophically disintegrated on a botched launch and sprayed debris all over the caribbean and caused the diversion of dozens of flights. musk had repeatedly demanded that that faa, faa chair should resign. he

resigned on inauguration day, and aviation security has been awesome ever since. right? at the fda, they have fired the people who were overseeing elon musk's neuralink brain implant company at the usda. they fired the inspector general who was investigating neuralink for its animal experimentation at the defense department. they fired the inspector general investigating elon musk over his alleged refusal to detail his contacts and ties with foreign governments, including our foreign adversaries. the labor department has multiple open investigations of tesla. trump's nominee for labor secretary would not commit either way at her confirmation hearing on whether she would allow elon musk and his dodge team to have access to those investigations of him, the labor department, or to any other investigations involving his business rivals. also, at least one u.s.

government agency, the national transportation safety board, has announced that it will only henceforth communicate with the public through elon musk's privately held social media company. the wall street journal reports this week that executives at his social media company have been calling up advertising firms and at least implicitly threatening them that if they don't give money to elon musk by advertising on that social media platform, those companies might find themselves in regulatory trouble with the us government since, you know. wink, wink. apparently, musk controls that now, right? it's nice work if you can get it. remember when president biden gave his farewell speech and he warned about oligarchy? remember that he said today an oligarchy is taking shape in america of extreme wealth, power and influence that threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead.

people lost their minds right when president biden said that, oh, that's so over the top. well, now here we are. but people are pushing back. the latest round of opinion polling shows that even though trump is underwater in his approval, which is astonishingly bad for a president this early in his presidency, right? in the history of modern polling, no president has been more disapproved of than approved of this early on in a presidential term. but the polls, those same polls that show trump in that that historically bad approval position also show that elon musk is about three times as unpopular as trump is. so people know what's going on. people are pushing back. and today was another one of those days when all sorts of different fronts, we saw pushback working. we saw them, you know, trying to do something, but they found it

difficult or awkward or indefensible or somebody pointed out that it was illegal or it got a bunch of bad press. they surveyed public opinion, surveyed the pushback they were getting, and pulled back on what they were initially trying to do. today we saw that on a whole bunch of fronts just in the past 48 hours. i mean, today, cnn reported that the defense department was planning on marching as many as 50,000 employees out the door. cnn reported on that plan and on the fact that you guys, that would be illegal. there are specific laws governing how and under what circumstances you can lay people off from the defense department. after that story came out, the trump administration apparently had second thoughts. they hit pause on that idea. quote. the pause comes after cnn reported that the mass terminations, which could affect over 50,000 employees, could run afoul of title ten, section 129 a of the us code. following that report, pentagon lawyers began reviewing the legality of the planned

terminations more closely, so they hit pause on the plan to walk as many as 50,000 people out the door. now they're saying they may fire 5000 people next week, not 50,000, but but we'll see. the white house has also just caved on the nine over 11 survivors fund, and research on the long term health problems that have afflicted the american heroes who ran into the fricking burning wreckage to try to save people after the nine over 11 attack, after widespread press coverage and a hue and cry against those cuts. oops. today they started telling republican members of congress that they are not going to be cutting that. after all, after a hue and cry over them cutting funding for school busses, they've started telling senators that that school bus funding is at least being partially restored as well, after a hue and cry over millions of dollars in payments to farmers being stopped. they just announced that at least the first tranche

of money that president biden had secured for u.s. farmers, at least that first tranche of money will be allowed to go forward. we will see if the farmers ever actually get it. last night, the washington post reported on an imminent white house announcement that they were going to eliminate the us post office, which, it should be noted, is in the constitution. washington post put this story on the front page. jacob borosage sole byline on that exclusive report. and then once the once the story published, the white house climbed down saying, oh, actually, it's just something that they are looking at. no, no. executive order was was planned after all. trump himself was then asked about it today and he said confusing things about maybe it will be a merger and it maybe it will stay the post office and nobody really knows what he means. but the washington post reporting last night that they were planning on just doing this by

fiat, by executive order, and now they're not. so we shall see. trump has always had it out for the post office. he went after it multiple times in his first term in office, you will recall. but you know what? the american people love? the post office serves all of us. if we want anything for the post office, we just want it to have more staff and better funding. we just want them to be better resourced because we love them and we depend on them, and they're integral to who we are as a country. the post office is, is, is it's i mean, it's in the constitution. just that alone, we tend to be jealously protective of things that are in black and white in the constitution as a foundational part of our constitutional republic. but even so, more than 70% of the public has a positive view of the us post office. and that number is the same among democrats and republicans. so yeah, of course trump wants to abolish it. but the public does not want it. and when they talk

about abolishing it, they get pushed back and they are already getting shy on what they were otherwise planning. the only government agency that is more beloved among the american public is the national park service, which trump and musk have already taken a chainsaw to as well, although there again, the pushback is pushing them back. today they announced that yes, after all, they will allow the hiring of people for the thousands of seasonal jobs without which the national parks cannot open in the summer for people to go there on vacation. duh. it's so stupid that people have to scramble and fight and organize and yell to get these basic things restored. yeah. why do you think there's lots of seasonal employees at the park service? when do people go on vacation to the national parks? how are people going to use the national parks if there are no seasonal employees to unlock the gates and clean the toilets? oh,

seasonal employees. oh, okay. you can have those back. it's so stupid that the public has to organize and yell to get these basic things restored. but when the public organizes and yells, these things get restored. when these guys get pushed back, they cave. because honestly, it is true. i mean, the price of eggs really isn't falling. but this junk sure is. we've got a lot to junk sure is. we've got a lot to get to tonight. stay with us. so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants? wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses

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to recognize how many of those things are getting announced. but they're not happening at all, or at least not yet. just try. >> to remember. >> we are not looking at the final score. we are still in the first quarter. keep your pads on. the game has just begun. >> today in washington, d.c, a group of proud boys and oath keepers to pro-trump paramilitary groups gathered outside the capitol to celebrate the january 6th pardons and to announce a new lawsuit slash cryptocurrency fundraising scheme. oh, but look, someone showed up to spoil it. specifically, two people showed up to spoil it. two women showed up on their own, one with a whistle and one with a bullhorn, and they just decided that the two of them, they were not going to let the proud boys get through it. >> this fight is. >> not only. >> over. >> it's only begun. we will hold responsible. >> to account. >> and we will never stop

fighting for the truth, for liberty and for justice. >> hoorah! >> and so. >> also. >> there's somebody screaming proud boys. >> that is former proud boys leader enrique tarrio. at the end of this event today, he was actually arrested and taken away by capitol police for allegedly assaulting one of those women as she tried to record him with her phone. protest comes in all shapes and sizes. it can sometimes be a huge crowd of people in front of spacex headquarters or the cfpb. sometimes it can be two women with a whistle and a bullhorn who will not give up. today in asheville, north carolina, people showed up to protest the trump administration's firing of federal workers. they got a big crowd in asheville at the federal courthouse there. we're also seeing more people show up at town halls to question their members of congress. last night, we showed you part of a town hall that was held in roswell, georgia, by republican congressman rich mccormick. i want you to see a little bit more from that. watch this. >> workers from the nuclear

workers. nuke the. nnsa our nuclear. >> stockpile. >> and cdc. >> workers working. >> on the bird flu. being fired by doge, and then having to be rehired when. >> someone realizes. >> oh, gosh, we need those people. why? why is a supposedly conservative party taking such a radical and extremist and sloppy approach to this? you have to do more with less in order to survive. trying to do more with less. that's reasonable. what's not reasonable is taking this chainsaw approach, which they obviously admit when they fired these people and then decide, oh. >> we fired. >> the wrong people, we got to bring them back in. why is this being jammed. down the pipe so rushed and sloppily so. yeah. >> crowd goes wild. so that was roswell, georgia last night. this was a tele town hall. telephone town hall. also last night, this was republican

congresswoman stephanie bice of oklahoma. >> i'm a. >> registered republican. >> voter and retired. >> active. army officer. >> how can you. >> tell me that those with some college whiz kids from. >> a computer terminal in washington, d.c, without even getting out into the field after about a week or maybe two, has determined that it's okay. >> to cut. veterans benefits. >> i think. >> a couple of things. let me give. >> you an example. >> did you know. that the va. >> was in charge of payments for illegals. >> for housing? >> basically the va? >> no, i'd. >> like i'd. >> like for you to send me. >> could you send me that reference so i could research that? >> because. no, i'm not aware of that. and i would tell you that that's a red. >> herring. >> a false flag. if you're throwing that kind of political stuff up trying to cut veterans benefits, that's very. >> alarming to me.

>> registered republican voter, retired active army officer. that is the kind of reaction these members are facing, even from republican voters and republican districts. this was the scene in west bend, wisconsin, with republican congressman scott fitzgerald. watch. >> when will you stand up to them and say that is enough? yeah. >> the end. >> result of the fraud. >> and abuse that has. >> been discovered already. >> oh. oh. nice job. whoa! no. no proof. >> that is a congressman coming to terms with his constituents. west bend, wisconsin, about an hour away in oshkosh, wisconsin, another republican congressman, glenn grothman, also getting an earful. >> president trump. >> has issued a lot of executive orders. >> i think, by. >> and large.

>> this is moving very quickly compared to other administrations. >> and i think. >> across the board he's. >> done some very good things. >> i think. >> he got. oh come on. >> wait. >> no. >> he's gotten. >> rid of birthright citizenship. >> oh. >> no. >> institutions illegal as hell. >> that's illegal as hell. we are seeing this kind of thing all across the country, and it is interesting. it is republicans having to face this from their constituents. but you're also seeing democrats who are largely of one mind with their constituents, but they are getting pushed to fight harder. congressman paul tonko is a democrat from new york who represents the area around albany, new york. this week, congressman tonko held a town hall. you might have seen this clip going around, but if you haven't seen it, you will want to watch this. >> i saw. >> you on. >> tv at noah.

>> i saw you. >> on tv. >> at. >> the department. >> of education. >> what i'm saying. >> is this. somebody asks. >> you what your. >> red line was and you said. >> you said that the time. >> is always right to go. >> does that mean the red line has already been crossed? >> yes. why? >> because i think it has. if you ask us to show up, congressman. >> tonko. >> we will show. >> up and. >> say it's been nothing. we have to. >> take. >> the gloves off. >> we can't wait for protocol. >> that is not. playing by the rules. >> yes. >> yes. >> we have to take it to day. >> what did. >> i say to. >> you with those pictures? i saw you next to maxine. >> waters again. i was so proud that my representative. >> was. >> on the front line right there. but i thought about jimmy carter, and i thought about. >> john lewis, and. >> i know what john lewis. >> would have done. >> he would.

>> have gotten arrested that day. >> make them. make them outlawed. you. we will stand behind you. we will be there with you. i will get arrested with you. >> and the crowd goes wild. i will get arrested with you. message that democratic congressman is basically fight harder. we're seeing this all over the country for democrats and republicans. all right. much more to get to tonight. we'll be right back. stay with us. >> hourly amazon employees earn >> hourly amazon employees earn an average of hey we're going big tonight let's go safety whoa! should i call mom? no, no don't tell your mother anything

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taken steps to fire thousands, potentially hundreds of thousands of people who work for the government. that doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason as to how they are proceeding with these layoffs. there's been a lot of cases in which they fired people and then said, oops, we didn't mean to, and they tried to bring them back. if you can generalize in any way about what they've done thus far, you can't say that a lot of the people that they have fired are what are called probationary employees, and that's a classification that can be misleading for a lot of people. it just means they have changed jobs within the government. either they've they've moved laterally or they've been promoted. but for some people it does mean they're in their first couple of years at their agency. it means they've chosen fairly recently to dedicate themselves to this kind of work. and in most cases, it's because they really care about it. for example, take casey, born in

middle school. she decided she wanted to work in wildlife conservation. she decided to go to a special stem focused high school, even though it meant a longer drive to and from school every day. she graduated from college with honors and a degree in biology. she spent a year working at the nevada department of wildlife. she wrote a kids book about the ecosystem of the mojave desert. last year, she got a job as a biologist at the us fish and wildlife service in nevada. but because she had not been in it in this job for two full years, casey born was considered to be a probationary employee, and probationary employees are the easiest to fire. and so last week, along with more than 400 other us fish and wildlife employees in the same classification, they fired her not because of anything she'd done wrong, but just because they could. joining us now is casey bourne, former biologist for the us fish and wildlife service. miss bourne, thank you so much for being with us tonight. i really appreciate it. i know it's a difficult

time. >> yeah. thank you for having me. it's definitely been. >> a. >> whirlwind of a week. >> i imagine that once things started to go haywire in washington with the firings and the announcements about probationary employees and all of this stuff that you might have expected, this was coming. was it one of those situations where it was not a surprise but still a shock? >> it definitely. >> was still a shock. >> there had. been a lot of different things happening within our. >> work over the last few weeks. >> a lot of programs. being cut down, meetings and trainings being canceled. >> budgets being. diminished in some of our projects. >> so there was definitely a lot of. >> talk about how things were changing, and. >> some of us. >> were. >> very afraid. >> because some. >> of us were very afraid. >> for our jobs, especially all of us probationary employees, because at. the beginning of february or at the sorry.

>> at the end. >> of january. >> our departments had. >> to give a. >> list of probationary. >> employees to the incoming administration. and at the time, they said that they weren't going to do anything with them. so we were all thinking that we were good. but yeah, so the. >> fear of being laid. >> off definitely was in the air. genuinely. >> i did not. >> think that they were. >> actually going to do it. so when i got that phone call from my supervisor just giving me a heads up about everything, i was absolutely devastated. >> let me give you a chance to respond to what was actually in the email that you got that fired. you, the trump administration. in this letter, they said they were firing you because, quote, the department has determined your knowledge, skills and abilities do not meet the department's current needs. i just wanted to ask you to respond to that. it's obviously a form letter they sent to everyone, but you're a human being. it's dramatically changing your life. and i want

to give you a chance to say your own, your own piece to that. >> yeah. >> it was honestly very bizarre to me. that they sent out this map. well, they sent out the email. >> individually to. >> each person. so it was the same cookie cutter email. it didn't even address my name. it didn't address anyone's names. it just had. this generic saying. and it just let us all know that we were let go. it was. >> yeah. >> reading it. >> i didn't even have any words. >> to. >> describe how i felt. and honestly, when i first. >> got the email. >> i didn't even fully read through it. i just skimmed it because everyone had been talking about what was going on, and i did not have the bandwidth to read the entire thing at the time. i didn't fully read the letter until, i think, tuesday. and when i got to that part that mentioned that we don't have the skills or the abilities to be

inside the department, i was not very happy because it was just not a true statement. >> casey, born biologist formerly with the us fish and wildlife service. and if things get righted in this country in the future, maybe you will be again with the us fish and wildlife service if any of this stuff gets undone. we really can't wait to see what you do next. stay in touch with us and i'm sorry this has happened to you. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> thank you so much. upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. one minute. and look at the

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control of the commerce department and secretary howard lutnick. the board is planning to fight trump's order, people three three sources told the washington post in an emergency meeting thursday. the board retained outside counsel and gave instructions to sue the white house if the president were to remove members of the board or attempted to alter the agency's independent status. after the post broke that exclusive story last night. the white house then denied that trump was planning to issue any such executive order. then today, when the commerce secretary was being sworn in, trump was asked about his plans for the 250 year old agency whose existence is spelled out in the constitution. he said that he and secretary letnick are, quote, looking at it. joining us now is the reporter who broke this story, the washington post jacob boj. mr. boj, thank you for coming back. i knew i had a feeling we'd be back talking to you soon as you've continued to break story after story in washington. what's your understanding of the state of play around this postal

service controversy? >> well, thank you for having me, rachel. it's good to be back. and that was one heck of. an intro. >> the state. >> the state of play is in flux. like you mentioned, we reported this story. with anonymous, but pretty ironclad. sourcing the white house after it published. denied it. and then. >> president trump. >> today didn't just say that he and secretary lutnick were looking at it. he acknowledged that they were. planning what he called some sort of merger between the postal service and the commerce department. so this is very much an active question in the white house and at the postal service. people are really uncertain. that goes from rank and file letter carriers and postmasters who i've. >> talked to. >> today and have. >> been texting with all through the night, really, from last night when i broke that story, to today to folks in the in senior leadership who are

wondering what it means to have a political mail service. >> yeah. you know, i remember during the first trump term when trump was taking aim at the postal service and there was like a grassroots bottom up uprising around the country, even in the worst of covid, with people standing up for postal workers and people standing up for the postal service and saying hands off. and it did appear to back them off. my sense, given the approval ratings, the public approval ratings for the postal service, that recent experience of having to stand up for it against trump, trying to take it down, that the response to your reporting might have been a little bit of that dynamic still at play, that they might not understand the political dragon that they are sort of letting out of the gate here. if they try to do this, is it your sense that there was momentum to do a thing? and then the public revelation of that momentum seems to have changed them to a

different course. >> that's a difficult question. >> to answer. >> i mean. >> yes and no. right? i mean. >> the story published last. night. and one of my sources immediately texted. >> me. >> are we doing. >> this again? this is somebody who had defended the postal service, you know, during. >> the. >> first trump. >> administration and. >> was like, okay, let's. >> take the playbook out again. >> and i've. >> been talking with sources. >> who are. >> reviving, you know, that playbook again today. the legal. >> questions around. >> if the trump administration. >> can do. >> this and. >> if so. how they can do this are very thorny. i mean. >> like. >> i'm a postal. >> policy geek and i. >> don't know. and that's because it's an. >> independent agency. >> it has to have a board. >> if you. >> don't have a board, you can't raise prices. >> you can't. >> sell stuff off, you can't make investments. those are those. >> are things.

>> those are powers that are not vested. in the postmaster general. and it's. >> designed that. >> way specifically to. >> wall people's. >> mail and communications off from anyone political who could tinker with it. >> yeah, the postal service belongs to the american people. it doesn't belong to any political faction, doesn't belong to the white house, certainly doesn't belong to any private company or private investor. jacob, this is a this is going to be a big one. moving ahead. i'm sure we'll be talking to you about it. again, congratulations on your reporting thus far. >> thanks. >> thanks. >> good to see you. ♪♪ well would you look at that? jerry, you've got to see this. i've seen it. trust me, after 15 walks, it gets a little old. ugh. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! unbelievable.

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