goncharenko is a member of ukraine's parliament. thank you. coming up, another hour of a beloved ukrainian children's book author started writing about the realities of war when russian troops invaded his village. the story of his last work, a manuscript he literally buried underground to protect it from hostile occupying forces, is a story of reading and writing as resistance, like you have never heard it before. that's ahead. in a special meeting of the banned book club, another hour of velshi begins right now. good morning. it's saturday, february the 22nd day 34 of donald trump's second term. we begin this morning with the friday night firings of some of the country's top military leaders. as president trump looks to shake things up at the pentagon. last night, the trump administration fired three of the nation's top military officials, including general charles c q brown, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. he's the highest ranking military post in the country.

brown was only the second black person to hold that position, according to nbc news reporting. secretary of defense pete hegseth called the general last night to deliver the news. moments later, president trump posted a statement about brown's termination on social media. the president added that he intends to nominate the retired three star air force lieutenant general, dan raisin cain, as the next joint chief of staff to replace brown. in his post, the president praised cain as a war fighter and said he was instrumental in the complete annihilation of the isis caliphate. in all, six pentagon officials were fired last night. in addition to general brown, the administration dismissed the chief of naval operations, admiral lisa franchetti, who was the first woman to lead the navy. in his most recent book, published before he was nominated to serve in trump's cabinet, defense secretary pete hegseth derided franchetti's promotion, suggesting that it was only because she was a woman. also fired last night, air force vice chief of staff general james slife and three judge advocate generals, the top

lawyers at the army, the navy and the air force. no one needed to be firing senior military staff last night, but what both congress and the president needed to be working on is a budget. in fact, meeting at least once a year to appropriate funds that are collected as taxes by the government is congress's one constitutional responsibility. and that process is off to a very rough start. in the 119th congress, early friday morning, after an all night session, the senate, not the house where the budget is supposed to start its tumultuous life, passed a budget largely along partizan lines. with one exception the sometimes libertarian senator from kentucky, rand paul, voted with all democrats and independents against it. the senate budget has a lot of issues with it. despite all this talk of doge and eliminating waste and fraud, this budget isn't giving you more as a result. unless, of course, you weren't a lot of money and are in desperate need of a big tax cut. it sure does spend a lot of your money on immigration enforcement and the military. but chief among the senate budget's problems are that donald trump just doesn't really like it. he likes the

house version, which makes those tax cuts for the corporations and the rich permanent, and makes drastic cuts to pesky and expensive government programs like medicaid, medicare, and other programs that benefit tens of millions of americans, many of whom are in need. the bulk of the senate republicans budget blueprint appropriates $175 billion for immigration enforcement and mass deportations, and it expands military spending by $150 billion. house republicans, however have a better or trumpier if you will plan. the house plan increases spending of up to $110 billion for the judiciary committee, which oversees spending for ice. it also contains another $100 billion for military spending. but by far the centerpiece of the house budget's resolution is extending president trump's 2017 tax cuts and allowing up to 4.5 trillion in tax cut, reductions in tax reductions over the next decades. and that would benefit the wealthiest americans the most. and how do you pay for those tax cuts, you ask? well,

you pay for it with up to $2 trillion in spending cuts, including major cuts to what's known as mandatory spending. and mandatory spending refers to programs that have been created and mandated by law. programs like medicaid, medicare, social security, food assistance known as snap, other public benefit programs. the house budget blueprint specifically directs the energy and commerce committee to find at least eight $880 billion in cuts. that committee oversees the spending for medicaid and medicare, which means that a directive to slash the budget by nearly $1 billion is likely to affect one or both of those programs. similarly, the house resolution directs the agriculture committee to cut at least $230 billion. but the bulk of the spending overseen by the agriculture committee involves the supplemental nutrition assistance program. snap, a food aid program, used to be known as food stamps for lower income americans, and that makes it a target for cuts. however, that committee's chairman, pennsylvania republican g.t. thompson, insisted last week

that there will be no new cuts to snap cutting. spending this way may be what a lot of republicans want to do, but it's going to be mighty unpopular. a number of house republicans, especially those in competitive districts, are already growing skittish over these proposals, and the likely cuts to medicare, medicaid and other programs. as it stands, the house framework would add $2.8 trillion to the deficit. joining me now is kathleen sebelius, the former secretary of health and human services for the obama administration. she's also the former governor of kansas. secretary sebelius, good to see you. this house budget plan that donald trump has endorsed over the senate budget plan. it. i just want to be clear. budgets are complicated. but the easy part here is that it calls for massive cuts across the board to medicaid, social security, and other programs that take up very large parts of the budget. we don't know that americans are going to say this is what they voted for. >> well. >> ali. >> i think it's very clear that americans didn't vote for this.

they voted for the price of eggs to come down. they voted for their gas to be cheaper. they voted for what they hope to be a more efficient government delivering services that they want and need. the cuts that are potentially on the table for programs like medicaid involve 72 million americans, low income working adults, seniors who are in nursing homes, disabled americans, cutting those folks off of their health insurance will be devastating and falls. then on states, states like kansas. and what you've already said is not only are the medical cuts on the table, but the agriculture cuts. so let's take kansas. kansas voted overwhelmingly for donald trump for president. >> right now, farmers. >> are already reeling because. of the grain that's sitting in grain elevators all over this. >> state. >> waiting for.

>> delivery to usaid. >> farmers have always sold commodities to usaid that's been suddenly cut off. farmers have no working anymore on the conservation programs that they've been paid to start. they're looking at medicaid cuts in this state, which would be devastating for the state budget and devastating. >> for rural hospitals. >> we've already closed some rural hospitals because of funding from the federal government. that would get even more serious. so over and over again, people would be cut off their food stamps. that is not what kansans thought they were voting for when they voted to reelect donald trump. >> so there's talking about cuts to rural hospitals. community health centers have been cut in many cases already with the spending freeze. medicaid announced the other day. it's not covering telehealth visits, for instance. so let's say your hospital is going away. your doctor is not close. telehealth seems to have been a remarkable

advance. we saw a lot of it during covid, a cheaper way of and more efficient way of delivering basic health care to people who who need to know this kind of information. almost seems cruel, right? why would you cut the thing that you know is actually efficient and working? >> well, it makes no sense. so in a state like kansas, you don't need the hospital to close to rely on telehealth. if you're a parent with a child with some serious mental health issues and you want to access a specialist, specialists don't live in the rural parts of kansas. they live more in the cities. telehealth enabled those parents to get the help and care they needed. without a 250 mile round trip drive with a child already in crisis, it enabled people to access specialty care that they can't get in their hometown. it enabled doctors and nurse practitioners to stay in rural communities because they could consult on a regular basis with specialists in the larger

community. all that goes away. so this is a devastating impact on health care. and we have two major research universities, kansas state university, the university of kansas, that already are now looking at hundreds. >> of millions. >> of dollars in nih cuts in department of agriculture, cuts in the research grants that are doing cancer research in our amazing cancer center that are keeping people in this area alive, that are helping farmers look at the next rotation of crops that are more disease resistant. so over and over and over again in the last four weeks, this state. very trump state. has been given news that is just devastating to the 3.3 million people who live here and rely on government services. >> so let's talk about you mentioned nih and university research. i think maybe the average american doesn't know how they're connected to the

national institutes of health, but the freeze on on their funding meant that their actual clinical trials going on to solve the diseases that we either have or don't know we have yet going on because of those those have come to a complete halt. in some places, you might be in a clinical trial and the clinical trial has has ended. you might have some kind of advanced cancer that you hope is going to be cured by a drug that you're on. this doesn't feel like waste, fraud and abuse. i think we can all agree that waste, fraud and abuse needs to be eliminated from government and we shouldn't be paying anything more for that. but that's not what this feels like. >> that's right. so 1500 of the talented employees who work at nih were just summarily dismissed. all of the probationary employees throughout hhs, at the food and drug administration, at the centers for disease control were dismissed. these are folks who were recruited, vetted, trained, working on jobs. the next

generation of really amazing public servants and health leaders. they're just gone. you talk about an inefficient way to run government, you know, to take the best and the brightest who made their way through the process and just say, you're out of here. but the research not only goes on at the national institutes of health in that amazing headquarters, but it actually goes on in research universities across this country. so the cuts to nih not only affect the people who are physically working at nih, but affect every research university in this country. and it is devastating. united states has always been the gold standard for medical research. it has the fastest cures to market ratio, has the best cancer cures, is way ahead of the world on other issues. but you get rid of a generation of leadership. you cut off the ability of universities to even apply for

grants, because now the cost that they the grant money that they get won't cover the cost of the lab and won't cover the cost of supplies. that really gives this entire enterprise to china, delivers a, you know, package to china that is, that they're eager to receive because they have been, you know, training scientists and trying to catch up with the united states. and this just halts the progress that we have made over generations. >> kathleen sebelius, thank you for joining us this morning. kathleen sebelius is the former health and human services secretary under president obama and the former governor of kansas. still ahead, we're going to go live to tel aviv for the latest on the final phase one ceasefire exchange between israel and hamas, which is still underway this morning. and later, we've got an incredible story as part of the book club, how one ukrainian writer recorded the story of a war that he knew he wouldn't survive, and then hid his final manuscript from enemy forces right in his own backyard. we'll discuss that. and the importance of

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bond get in touch with irresistibly touchable skin. >> we're continuing to follow breaking news out of the middle east right now. six hostages are back in israel after being released by hamas this morning. meanwhile, israel is set to release 620 palestinian prisoners and detainees as part of the deal. this includes 50 prisoners who were sentenced to life in prison, 60 prisoners with high sentences for journalists and 445 people taken from gaza. since october 7th, 2023. this is supposed to be the last prisoner hostage exchange of phase one of the cease fire deal. but last we checked in the last hour with hala gorani, who is in tel aviv. the prisoner release had not happened yet. do you have any news as to whether that has taken place yet? >> i don't actually, ali. we

have not seen those palestinian prisoners released. we're meant to see more than 600 set free, including more than 400 who are arrested and taken by israeli authorities inside of gaza. after october 7th. there was some talk of doctor who was one of the doctors in northern gaza who was detained by israeli forces. we understood he was set to be released. we're not seeing any sign of any palestinian prisoner so far, which right now is starting to become a little bit. it is unusual. it doesn't fit the pattern and doesn't match. the pattern of previous saturdays, but there were some very happy scenes, happy reunions between released hostages, men in their 20s who were kidnaped from the nova music festival on october 7th, 2023 with their parents, their relatives and loved ones. the day began with one of those hamas quote unquote, ceremonies that we've been used to seeing every saturday with the stage

and posters and sort of knowing that the attention of the world was on them, all these kind of slogans and messages written in arabic, in hebrew and english, etc. so we saw two released in rafah. that's in the southern part of the gaza strip, and then three in nuseirat in central gaza and in nuseirat. we saw them. they were thinner. they they looked obviously like, you know, they'd been detained for, for, for a while and that they, they had lost some weight. but, but they were all standing, waving, smiling. and then when we saw the reunions with their families, certainly a lot of relief on their faces. this is phase one. there was some momentum to phase one, ali, because, you know, there was this kind of every saturday, a release of a group of hostages. now, the question is, are we going to press on with stage two? that's a huge question going forward. >> and i just want to, you know, normally on a saturday morning on our side, evening on your

afternoon and evening on your side, we get frequent updates both from hamas and the idf about what's happening with the hostage prisoner exchange. we have not received anything. i certainly have not received any alerts yet that say that there's a problem. normally somebody jumps on it fairly fast and tells you there's some problem. so. so we have not seen the release of these prisoners. usually we get word that they're being released and they usually go to ramallah in the, in the west bank, although some get released to, to gaza. we just don't know at the moment we've not heard that there is a problem. we just haven't seen these prisoners yet. >> right. and also some of these detainees, the prisoners. in israeli jails. yeah, are going to be deported. many of them among the group released into the west bank or that were originally arrested in the west bank were serving life sentences. one of the names one of really the most notorious prisoner would be nihal barghouti, who's been in prison

for 44 years. this is someone who captured an israeli soldier and was accused of killing that soldier and then sentenced subsequently to life in prison. now, again, what you're saying is, is exactly right. we're not hearing any updates on when or where these palestinian prisoners will be released. but but i will say, i think the really one of the most important questions here for people across the country is will we move on to phase two? because president trump, who's envoy steve witkoff, has put a lot of pressure on authorities here, including the prime minister, to agree to phase one to get the deal going. you heard president trump over the last 24 hours say that really, he's fine with any decision israel takes. go on to phase two or restart the war. so this this is not exactly the message that we're hearing from steve witkoff. so there's a bit of confusion as to where the us stands once again on this

particular foreign policy challenge. and the parents of the remaining hostages and loved ones. i spoke to edan, alexander's mother. they really who's the last remaining american hostage? they really want phase two to go ahead, listen to her. >> first of. >> all, i know president trump. >> said it. >> not once. >> and not twice. >> that is demanding. >> all the. hostages released. >> he wants. >> to see it. >> and since. >> trump is. >> president. >> we saw the ceasefire happened. now we're in phase one, and i'm hoping that they're going to continue with the releases of all the. live hostages. >> and then. >> they're going to deal also with the. >> deceased hostages. >> as well. and, ali, just lastly, on the palestinian side, there is you can imagine, especially in gaza, which has been devastated, more than 45,000 people killed, infrastructure demolished. they to really want phase two to go

ahead because restarting the war on the palestinian side would really, really just increase the, the, the, you know, the distress and the anguish and also not allow for any reconstruction. >> ali hala, thank you. we'll stay in close touch with you. nbc news international correspondent hala gorani for us in tel aviv. all right. coming up. it's been three years since russia launched its war in ukraine. and president trump's new posture on the war, including falsely turning that invasion on and blaming it on ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky, is hurting ukrainians on the ground from those trying to rebuild, to the soldiers who are still fighting on the front lines. what they told nbc's lines. what they told nbc's richard engel is next. baby: liberty! mom: liberty mutual is all she talks about since we saved hundreds by bundling our home and auto insurance. biberty: it's pronounced "biberty." baby: liberty! biberty: biberty! baby: liberty! biberty: nice try, kid. only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: liberty. what's up, you seem kinda sluggish today. things aren't really movin'.

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relationship with ukraine rapidly changes thanks to the new trump administration. as president, trump continues to attack president volodymyr zelensky as a dictator who started the war, which is untrue, we must remember that there are innocent ukrainian civilians who are trying to make it through this war. they're trying to rebuild loved ones who are still mourning the loss, soldiers who are still on the front line trying to defend their country. nbc's richard engel spoke with one soldier on the front lines of kharkiv. >> what does it feel like decisions are being made about ukraine without ukraine's input? >> well, i said, we're. providing the motivation. >> joining me now is my friend, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel, who was in ukraine when the missiles started flying three years ago tomorrow. richard, one of the things you have covered so well

in the last three years is this motivation of these people, civilians, troops on the front line, because they believe they're fighting. they believe they're the tip of the spear for a war that the world, nato and 20 other countries support them in. talk to me more about about the mood on the ground. >> well, i can tell you where i was just a short while ago. so i'm in the city of kharkiv. this is a city that is still under russian attack. it is attacked frequently. you hear the air raid sirens pretty much every single day. but just a short walk from here. i went to the opera house. and they're not using the opera house anymore. this is a city that likes the opera. likes classical music. instead, they're in the bomb shelter and they are holding a classical opera concert in the bomb shelter where they've put stage, put in lights. and it was full. it was packed, a sophisticated crowd. there were a lot of women in fur coats, and they all knew the songs, and they were there and enjoying

themselves, even with the air raid sirens outside. and i talked to people. i said, why are you doing this? they said, because i think this helps us go on. this helps us stay strong, to have a night out and continue to live our lives. that was ali just just a few minutes ago. and we've seen things like that, this, this resilience, this adaptability from the very start. but they worry now are they does the united states still have their back when they hear president trump saying that the war was launched because ukraine started the war, as you mentioned three years ago, i was here, russia crossed the border with an enormous amount of force, columns of tanks. they were air assaults just outside of kyiv. president putin was calling president zelensky, who is jewish, a nazi, and said that it was russia's duty and responsibility. and in their defensive self-interest to topple the government next door, which they claimed was posing a threat to russia. so russia very much started this war, and the

united states has been with ukraine ever since. but now when they they see president trump asking for resources in return and pressuring their government in a very serious way, when the government and the people are under pressure, they are starting to ask themselves, what happened? what did we do wrong? and just the other day, ali, i was in a school that was funded by usaid under also underground, like the opera, and i was speaking to some students there, and i think we have a clip of one of those, one of those teachers reactions right here. what do you make of what president trump has been saying about ukraine? >> to be honest, we. >> are worried, she said, adding, our houses, our cities are ruined and they say it's our fault we are being killed and it's our fault. and ali, just

the focus right now is on this, what we've all been calling the mineral deal. but the new york times is reporting right now that it is far more extensive than a mineral deal. it is a deal that would effectively put a financial block on ukraine's natural resources, not just not just rare earth minerals, which we've been talking about a lot, but also coal ports. this this country's significant economic output, its coal, and that it would continue to put a hold on the revenue from those industries until $500 billion was reached and apparently dedicated to go to the united states. that is a very significant amount of money for ukraine, and it is a would be a very, very heavy burden for this country to bear at a time of war at a time of ongoing russian attacks. >> and however, vladimir zelenskyy is a is a crafty guy. he's prudent. so he is they are

engaging in a discussion with the united states. you know, you've covered a lot of wars. one of the interesting things to remember is when the united states sends the amount of aid that it sends to ukraine, 70% of what the united states has committed to or paid ukraine is spent in the united states on munitions, on armaments, on weaponry. when they get f-16s, f-16s are built in the united states. so it's important to note that donald trump has made this sound like cash that has been given to ukraine as a sort of a charitable donation. he's saying that he wants. >> you have it exactly right. double payment. and it is the kind of relationship, frankly, that you said. i've covered a lot of conflicts. i have never seen this kind of strong arm tactics. and the european allies are watching this very closely, because this is how donald trump is treating an ally right now, demanding payment. some european countries are talking about extortion, blackmail, using terms like that. by the way, when i was at that opera, i asked someone in the bunker underground, what do they think

that that ukraine should pay these minerals? he said, absolutely not. this is not something that we should be forced to do by an ally. and other allies are watching, too. and, you know, if you're you're if you're in in europe, you're wondering, well, what what is the president of the united states going to ask for us should we ever find ourselves in a time of need? yes. >> because the one time, the one time that nato had to call allies in need was after the attacks of nine over 11, when the rest of nato came to the aid of the united states, which was deemed to have been an attack on one and hence an attack on all. richard, stay safe, as always. i say that to you every time, and i know you're really good at it, but keep doing it. richard engel is our chief foreign correspondent. he's been covering this war since days before it even started. we'll be right back. >> my eyes. >> they're dry. >> uncomfortable. looking for extra hydration. now there's blink neutral tears. it works differently than drops. blink

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about tomorrow's show. i will be joined by a young woman who's become a very special friend of our show. i met nastia in warsaw, poland in 2022. at the time, she was a 15 year old ukrainian refugee fleeing the russian invasion. her father, an army chaplain, was on the front lines of the war in donetsk, displaced from her home, separated from her father. just a teenager, nastia decided to do volunteer work in warsaw, helping more newly arrived refugees than she was. it kept her busy and positive, but she really missed her father. >> thank you for coming here. thank you. >> and talking to us and to. >> and we will pray for your father. and i'm. >> sure he's going to. >> be fine. >> thank you for supporting us. thank you. >> it's very important. >> not for me, but it's important for my family. and my friends. i know that i'm not alone. and who lost everything? >> you're not alone. thank you. you're not alone for sure. thank you for being. >> with us. can i hug you? okay. >> we'll get through this. >> that was nearly three years

ago. and this weekend, as the full scale war nears, a grim three year milestone and a new american administration is changing the reality on the ground for her country. i'll check back in with nastia, who's now back in ukraine. that's tomorrow morning, 10 a.m. tomorrow morning, 10 a.m. eastern, right here on [ serene music playing ] welcome to the wayborhood. the wayfair vibe at our place is western. my thing, darling? shine. gardening. some of us go for the dramatic. how didn't i know wayfair had vanities in tile? [ gasps ] this. yeah. wow! do you have any ottomans without legs. shaun, you'll flip for the poof cart. in the wayborhood, there's a place for all of us. ♪ wayfair. every style. every home. ♪ i'm thinking of updating my kitchen... —yeah? —yes! ...this year, we are finally updating our kitchen... ...doing subway tile in an ivory, or eggshell... —cream?... —maybe bone?... don't get me started on quartz. a big big island... you ever heard of a waterfall counter?... for everyone who talks about doing that thing,

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not the story in the book, but the story of the manuscript itself. a manuscript that was written in a dangerous time by an author who refused to stay silent in the face of war and injustice. a writer who hid his precious manuscript so that it might survive a war that he knew he might not survive. this is the story of volodymyr vakulenko, whose story last summer. the new york times's andrew kramer and maria voracova varennikov published this beautiful, heartbreaking story of vakulenko manuscript and its odds defying journey to publication. they told the story of a book that was full of ideas deemed so dangerous to the occupying russian force that its author had to literally bury it underground so that it would not be destroyed. in 2022, the ukrainian author author vladimir vakulenko was living in his birthplace, a small village in the eastern region of ukraine, just outside of kharkiv. he was well known in ukraine for his bright and cheery children's books, but his writing and his

disposition started to change when the full scale russian invasion began. as vladimir's town lost power and internet and phone service its connection to the outside world, he began to write not lyrical children's stories to which he was accustomed, but a war diary. he wrote, quote, today is the 10th day of the occupation. i understand that these manuscripts will end up in the hands of the fsb. that's russia's primary security and intelligence agency. however, i still hope to hand them over to international organizations in case of a prolonged occupation so that they will be governed by the rules of the international community. end quote. he continues, you get used to everything. the main thing is who you remain. amidst all this, the grod explosion stopped bothering me at all. he's referring here to a type of russian rocket attack. i'm not afraid of dying suddenly, but i have no privilege to die. i'm not alone. so i have to survive. end quote. anticipating his

capture by russian forces, vakulenko buried his manuscript under a cherry tree in his yard. shortly after that, vakulenko was kidnaped by the russian army and shot. his body was later found in a mass grave site near kharkiv. meanwhile, on the other side of the country, in western ukraine, in lviv, was this woman victoria amelina, an author of two novels and two children's books, the mother of a ten year old son. when the war broke out, she began volunteering to help the war effort, sorting medicine, moving boxes of supplies, and collecting money. but her connection to the world of writers within ukraine inspired her to do something else. she wrote, quote, i want to write a book of reportage on those who are documenting the war. end quote. victoria began working with truth hounds, a non-governmental group documenting russian war crimes. a few days after ukraine liberated parts of the kharkiv region back in september of 2022, she passed through the

little village where volodymyr vakulenko lived and buried his war diary before he was kidnaped and killed. victoria had heard of volodymyr's kidnaping, and though his fate was not yet known, she wanted to interview his parents to get their witness statements about her fellow writer's disappearance. when volodymyr's father said that he believed that there was a manuscript hidden, hidden somewhere in the yard, victoria helped him find it and dug up the manuscript from underneath the cherry tree. victoria posted this picture of the manuscript, still covered in soil. on twitter. she wrote i just finished a foreword to the diary my colleague volodymyr vakulenko had written during his occupation of his village before being abducted and killed. this parcel i found in the soil is about to become a book. my little mission is almost complete. end quote. vladimir's book, titled i am transforming a diary of occupation and selected poems, was published nine months after victoria uncovered it in june of 2023. it's available on ukrainian bookshelves today for

more than a year from the start of the war. victoria amelina dedicated her life to collecting the stories of the war in ukraine. she visited the front lines and other liberated territories. she found witnesses. she collected testimonies and writings from those who had survived and from those who didn't. she planned to leave ukraine with her son later that summer in 2023, to attend a residency at a university in paris. before she was set to depart, she sent a friend the file of her unfinished book of reportage. she expressed concern that if a missile were to hit, this document can stay with you just in case. four days later, on june 27th, 2023, victoria was killed in a missile strike on a pizza parlor, where 64 others also died. victoria alina's book, which was incomplete at the time of her death, was published this year. it's called looking at women looking at war a war injustice diary. here's what she wrote of volodymyr vakulenko quote. by march 28th he will be in captivity, tortured or already dead. his

war notes will be in the black ukrainian soil, waiting to be found one day. end quote. later in the book, she writes, quote, the quest for justice has turned me from a novelist and a mother into a war crime researcher. over the last year, i have photographed shell holes in library walls and the ruins of schools and cultural centers. i have recorded the testimonies of survivors and eye witnesses of atrocities. i've done this to uncover the truth, to ensure the survival of memory and give justice and lasting peace a chance. end quote. in may of last year, the printing plant in kharkiv that had published volodymyr's war diary was completely destroyed in a russian missile attack that killed at least seven people. the printing plant was responsible for about a third of ukraine's overall book printing capacity, but despite this, all these stories, depressing though they are, have galvanized the literary and publishing community in ukraine. ukrainian authors, editors and publishers are fighting to keep ukrainian literature alive, and the demand

for ukrainian stories is higher than it's ever been throughout the country and around the world. after the break, i'll break. i'll speak to yaroslav trofimov. he's a ukrainian born author and journalist about his new book about the war and why access to literature is so crucial to a war torn country crucial to a war torn country like ukraine. jordan's sore nose let out a fiery sneeze, so dad grabbed puffs plus lotion to soothe her with ease. puffs plus lotion is gentle on sensitive skin and locks in moisture to provide soothing relief. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. america's #1 lotion tissue. spreadsheet instead of using quicken. quicken pulls all your quicken. quicken pulls all your financial info together in feeling backed up and bloated? good thing metamucil fiber plus probiotics gummies work harder for your digestive system. with fiber to help promote gut health. and probiotics to help relieve occasional bloating. so you can feel your best.

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>> on your front door. >> to for president trump's first 100 days? alex wagner travels to the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you there? >> i was there on. january 6th. >> did it surprise you that you were fired. given how resolutely. nonpartisan you have been? >> and for more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast trumpland with alex wagner. >> all right, before the break, i told you about some heartbreaking stories about ukrainian authors, journalists and publishers working to keep ukrainian literature alive. joining me now is yaroslav trofimov. he's the chief foreign correspondent for the wall street journal. he's the author of several books, including the new historical novel no country for love. yaroslav, thank you for being with us. we appreciate you taking your time this morning. you recently wrote a piece in the wall street journal titled russia wants to erase ukraine's future and its past. and you detail the soviet era atrocities that russia committed against ukraine, from famine to

the mass murder of the ukrainian people in the 30s. you write about how intellectuals of the time writers, historians, artists, teachers, they were specifically targeted and murdered, not incidentally. so this is very close to two ukrainian authors. i want to just quote from what you wrote, the war that russia is waging against ukraine and that president trump says he is determined to end by opening talks with the kremlin, isn't just about territorial gains or global power projections. it is fundamentally a struggle over historical memory. end quote. tell me about this historical memory for ukrainians. >> well, thank you so much for this. well, look, let's. >> look at. >> how this war began. >> this war began with president. putin of russia writing an. >> essay about history. >> it's called on the. >> historical unity of. >> russians and ukrainians, in which he argued, essentially that ukrainians don't exist. you know, ukrainians and. russians are the same people. >> and ukraine has no right to its own separate path. and that. >> that essay. >> was published. >> in the summer of.

>> 2021, read. >> out to every member. >> of the russian armed forces who. >> then. >> invaded ukraine and this unprovoked aggression. >> in. >> february the following year. and this weight of history really is the motivating force for ukrainians resisting today. because, you know, as you mentioned, and as i have written my novel, which is based on the family history of. my grandmother and my own family, but it's also a family history. of pretty much everyone else in ukraine today, because we all survived in this dark period. >> of 1930s. >> and 1940s, 1950s. as a people. when ukraine was probably the deadliest place on earth between the famine that was, you know, designed to, you know, basically destroy the ukrainian countryside and the war. and so that's really what motivates the ukrainians to fight today, because they know that the alternative of surrender is actually worse than the casualties, the tremendous casualties, the destructions that are occurring today,

because the russian plans haven't really changed. and, you know, we talked about this famine. well, you know, ukraine is full of monuments to the victims of the famine that killed at least 4 million people. whenever the russians occupy ukrainian town. they destroy these monuments because they say, you know, it never happened. whereas the ukrainian motto in this war is never again. >> i grew up in canada, so a lot of those ukrainians who left in the 1930s went and settled in canada. it was a it was a it was an imposed famine. russia. ukraine was never short of wheat. ukraine has been the breadbasket to the world forever. ukraine's wheat was kept from its own people. which is why, when i hear this discussion in the last week about a trade for ukraine's natural resources, while it's a it's a bad idea on the face of it. it's actually unique for ukrainians, the idea that, oh, you're going to steal something else from us, that that is our own resource. >> well, absolutely. >> you know, ukraine is, you know, ukrainians want to be seen as people, as a nation with

their own culture. and precisely because they have been treated over the centuries and especially in 20th century, by the nazis and by the soviet regime as just a source of raw materials, you know, you know, the soviets didn't care about ukrainians. they cared about the ukrainian natural wealth. the same was with the nazis when they occupied ukraine. and so that that's really why it's so important for ukrainians to reassert their own culture and to show the world that, you know, we are as deserving of respect and treatment as any other people in the world. and we have this, you know, culture and history that by design is unknown to the rest of the world because of soviet efforts to suppress it over the centuries, with some help from the west. you know, the reason why people did not know about the ukrainian famine at the time is because, you know, there was a journalist for the new york times at the time, walter duranty, who won a pulitzer prize for writing articles that denied this famine occurred in 1932, 1933.

>> there has been, however, and i've noticed this since the war started, and the number of times that i've been in ukraine, there's been a resurgence of demand and popularity of ukrainian literature in ukraine and around the world. in the uk, ukrainian diaspora and amongst others. but in a way that that that that had been dulled for a little while. this, this idea of identifying with the old ukraine and the new ukraine through literature is surging inside ukraine. >> well, absolutely. >> and that's. >> because, you know, the ukrainian literature was unknown. you know, i grew up in kyiv as a teenager. and, you know, we knew about the banned russian writers, you know, bulgakov, pasternak, solzhenitsyn. they were circulating in samizdat in the underground. but the ukrainian renaissance, the ukrainian writers and poets that i described in my book and that actually victoria melanie talks about in her book, the so-called executed renaissance in the 1930s, they were not just killed, they were completely wiped out from memory. there

were, you know, nobody except a few literary scholars in canada or elsewhere knew about them until they were finally discovered again and returned to the school curriculum in, in independent ukraine. but they still remain unknown in the west. >> how do you feel? what are what are people in ukraine thinking right now about everything that we've been seeing in the last couple of weeks? >> well, obviously, it's very painful to see a country that the united states that ukrainians consider to be a friend and ally suddenly embrace russia's narratives of the war and blame essentially ukraine for starting a conflict that was unprovoked and started by russia. but there is also a sense of resilience, because if you remember how it all started three years ago, ukraine was on its own. you know, the biden administration closed the embassy in kyiv, pulled out all personnel, and the weapons supplies started coming in. only, you know, 2 or 3 months later, once ukraine, with its own forces, repelled the initial

russian invasion of kyiv. and so, you know, there's a song in ukraine that is very popular now. it's a song from the 1920s, but the lyrics go, you know, crying has never brought freedom to anyone, but those who fight will gain the world. and i think the ukrainians know that, you know, they don't have the luxury of crying right now. they have to keep resisting and be steadfast. >> yaroslav, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. yaroslav trofimov is the chief foreign affairs correspondent at the wall street journal and the author of no country for love. that does it for me. thank you for watching. catch me back here tomorrow morning from 10 a.m. to noon eastern. don't forget is available as a podcast. follow and listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. plus, you can always find fauci content on youtube. head to msnbc.com, and you can scan the qr code on your screen to follow me on blue sky. all you have to do is scan it and take you right to my page. well, that does it for me. katie phang and her show starts right now.