russian invasion of kyiv. and so, you know, there's a song in ukraine that is very popular now. it's a song from the 1920s, but the lyrics go, you know, crying has never brought freedom to anyone, but those who fight will gain the world. and i think the ukrainians know that, you know, they don't have the luxury of crying right now. they have to keep resisting and be steadfast. >> yaroslav, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. yaroslav trofimov is the chief foreign affairs correspondent at the wall street journal and the author of no country for love. that does it for me. thank you for watching. catch me back here tomorrow morning from 10 a.m. to noon eastern. don't forget is available as a podcast. follow and listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. plus, you can always find fauci content on youtube. head to msnbc.com, and you can scan the qr code on your screen to follow me on blue sky. all you have to do is scan it and take you right to my page. well, that does it for me. katie phang and her show starts right now.

>> this is the. >> katie phang show live from telemundo studios. >> in miami, florida. >> defending diversity. >> inside a federal. >> judge's friday night move to. >> block the trump administration from gutting dei. >> related grants. >> and funding. howard university's sherrilyn. ifill on commemorating and. >> elevating black history amid trump's assault. >> on diversity. >> plus slashing the safety net. >> republican lawmakers are facing. furious constituents. >> as congress mulls steep. cuts to medicaid and food stamps to fund trump's planned tax cuts for the 1%. then the fight for florida. trump raises the stakes in the battle for the florida governor's seat by throwing his early support behind a potential contender. why? >> that's terrible news for term limited incumbent. >> governor ron. >> desantis. and later setting the bar, understanding the key role lawyers will play in pushing back. on trump's authoritarian ploy. to remake

our nation. >> all of that and. >> more is coming up. >> as we near the end of black history month. >> i want to. >> highlight the hypocrisy of this moment. >> of dissonance. >> this is a very special time. it's black history month. we love you all. we're going to work with you. we're going to make america greater than ever before. >> convicted felon. donald trump. >> touting his alleged love for this. very special month and its people while standing in the white house that was built by enslaved black people, completely glossing over the fact he has barred federal agencies from observing black history month, among other special observances, reversing decades of. >> progress on. >> diversity and equal. >> opportunity and inclusion.

>> trump has. >> ordered the doj. >> to halt. >> all civil. >> rights cases. >> and investigations, while his attorney general, pam. >> bondi. >> will now use the department of injustice to investigate, eliminate and penalize. >> private companies. >> and universities that have illegal diversity, equity and inclusion programs. in dark times like these, it's easy to feel the weight of despair. but i'm here to remind you that there is hope. just yesterday, a federal. >> judge blocked. >> trump's executive order. to terminate d.e.i. related grants and contracts. and there are numerous lawsuits challenging trump's executive orders that infringe on your civil rights. and even more importantly, there are your fellow americans that are taking up the mantle of the late, great civil rights icon and congressman john. lewis in order to make good trouble. >> maga is. >> profoundly corrupt.

>> unmistakably anti-democracy. and most. >> importantly. >> maga is. >> explicitly a nazi movement. you may have. replaced a swastika with a red. >> hat. >> but that is what it is. i'm here to tell this billionaire who is sowing chaos, advancing cruelty, and operating with corruption to take his foot off the necks of working people. >> he's running around because he thinks he's got a bank account with a lot of zeros in it, that it makes him some kind of super citizen. i don't think so. >> joining me now. >> sherrilyn ifill, civil rights attorney, former president of the legal defense fund and the endowed chair in civil rights at howard university's school of law. sherrilyn, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. >> i want. >> to start with the recent decision that we got from a federal judge in maryland just late yesterday, blocking trump's executive order to move forward with terminating dei related grants and contracts. it's good

news. and for a very significant legal reason, because it means that the judge found that there's a likelihood of success on the merits of the case that was brought by these. >> but kind of talk. >> a little bit bigger picture. >> to. >> sherrilyn about why this really deals a significant blow to trump's 2.0 administration. >> well. >> thanks, katie. >> it's great to finally be with you on a saturday morning. you know, this was a very important order last. >> night. >> as have been all of the district court orders that have slowed down trump's effort. to dismantle. a programs that have been in place for decades. trump has had speed on his side. all of us have been gasping for breath as we've tried to absorb the wait and the furious pace of orders that he has unrolled that purport to transform our country. coupled with the efforts of elon musk, who has penetrated and infiltrated the federal government and has been

laying off workers and ending programs and threatening services in our social safety net. this is particularly important because, as i wrote last week, the staggering number of trump eo's that are targeted at issues of equity issues, particularly of racial equity, including his anti die order, which he. >> calls. >> you. >> know, radical. he he wants to roll back and he has reversed an executive order going back to president johnson that requires federal contractors to consider contracts to minority businesses and the federal workforce to consider ensuring that they have a diverse workplace and purports to cut off aid, federal aid and support to all programs that advocate or engage in diversity, equity, and inclusion activities. none of those activities are illegal. the supreme court has not struck

down diversity, equity and inclusion programs, but the president purports to cut off funding and to strangle schools, universities, programs, local practices, cities that get money from the federal government that use dei practices. so it was very gratifying to see this case in baltimore and to see the federal judge note in his order that that it's likely that this order has constitutional violations. >> so there's an. important quote from john. >> lewis i wanted to. >> read right now. >> sherrilyn. >> it says. >> a democracy cannot. thrive where power remains unchecked and. >> justice is reserved. >> for a select few. >> ignoring these. >> cries and failing to respond to this movement is simply not an option, for peace cannot exist. >> where justice. >> is not served. sherrilyn trump issued an executive order last month ending the national law enforcement accountability database. it's what i call the. >> bad cops. >> database that. >> was put in place as a part of

the george floyd justice in policing act. these are the types of moves that are going to have resonating impacts on not just minorities in america, but against all americans that are trying to make sure that law enforcement does the right thing as well. >> well. >> this is why i think it's important to really look closely at who trump is attempting to appeal to. so the george floyd justice in policing act never actually passed. we were never able to get it through the senate. thanks to two republican senators blocking its move. but this effort was created by president biden. in the wake of the failure of the george floyd justice in policing act to ensure something that everyone agreed on, which is that you don't want bad cop cops getting kicked off of a force for misconduct, and then simply going to another police force and beginning the same behavior again. we saw that in the case of one of the officers in the breonna taylor case. we saw that

in the case of the officer who killed tamir rice, officers who had been fired because their superiors did not have confidence in them and because they engaged in misconduct, and they simply moved a few towns away, joined another local police department and started again. and so this database would have allowed police departments to be able to see, to be able to check and determine that someone. applying for a job in their police department had been released from their prior job for misconduct, whether that misconduct was serious and sustained. this was supported by the international association of chiefs of police. i remember saying to some of these police chiefs, you know, no one who has ever run an organization wants to believe that they're hiring someone who should not be hired, who cannot meet minimum standards. and so trump doing this, who is he appealing to? why does he want to have bad cops out there? why does he want to have rogue cops be kind of insulated from being able to

operate as flying dutchman? going from police department to police department. it's a degradation. it's what trump wants. and you see this across the many cabinet picks and others that he's bringing into the administration. it's a degradation of the office itself. he wants people who are compromised in position because he believes that those people are the people less likely to push back against him, to say no, to not follow an order that he gives, to not engage in conduct that is unconstitutional. and so he he wants that around the country. and this the decision to bring down this database is evidence of that, because there is no rational reason why we wouldn't want to know officers who had been removed from police departments for misconduct. >> sherrilyn ifill, thank you so much for getting us started today. such an important conversation. can't wait to have you back. thank you so much. >> thank you katie. >> ahead on the katie. >> phang show. >> the resistance 2.0. despite

having some of the worst poll numbers in history. trump barrels ahead with his sweeping executive plan to remake the united states. but democratic congresswoman sara jacobs is marshaling the resistance. what practical political pushback looks like when you're in the minority? plus dollar deja vu. congress is staring down yet another. >> government shutdown deadline. >> with no plan in sight. >> how democrats can. >> how democrats can. >> force the gop's hand. don't with fatigue and light-headedness, i knew something was wrong. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. this is no time to wait. feeling backed up and bloated? good thing metamucil fiber plus probiotics gummies

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>> march 21st. >> medicare? medicaid. none of that stuff is going to be touched. nothing. i don't have to. >> as my. >> colleague rachel maddow likes. >> to say, watch what they do, not what they say. in the trump endorsed house budget bill, medicaid could. >> be the largest. >> target for cuts, with an 11% reduction in. >> spending on average. >> over a decade. this is the program in which 72 million americans are enrolled. the program that pays for around 4 in 10 births and covers care costs for more. than 60% of nursing home residents. in other words, a program that cares for some of our community's most vulnerable. >> the good news though. >> this issue could be. politically lethal for congressional republicans, as over 3 in 4 americans support the program. joining me now is congresswoman sara. >> jacobs of california. >> congresswoman, it's good to see you back on the show. you

actually held a medicaid roundtable. yesterday at san ysidro health clinic in el cajon. >> what did. >> you hear from your constituents about any of these potential cuts to medicaid? >> it's great to be. >> back with you, katie. >> honestly, what i heard was heartbreaking. i heard from a woman who has a disabled son who is unable to work, that she. wouldn't even be able to. afford one week. >> of. >> the medicine she. >> needs for her. >> special needs, son. >> without medicaid. >> i heard. >> from another. >> person who got hurt while on the wall at work. >> like while. >> at the workplace. >> and medicaid. >> was the only. >> reason he was. >> able to get. >> the rehabilitation. >> he. >> needed so that he. >> could go back. >> to work. >> and without medicaid, he would have been stuck with that injury and. >> would have never been. >> able to work again. these are. >> the. >> kinds of programs we're. >> hearing from people. and that's. >> why i think it's so important that we talk. about the real human impact. because i know sometimes. >> we talk about. >> numbers like $2.5 trillion

or, you know, programs that. sounds like monopoly. >> money and. faceless bureaucrats. >> in a big. >> gray. >> building in washington. >> d.c. but these are real people's lives who are going to be impacted. >> where i represent. >> in san diego, 1 in 6 people rely on medicaid for their health care. and, you know, one of the things i heard from folks. yesterday was. >> while they can find. >> substitutes for other. >> programs. >> like if they need to go to a food bank or. >> something, there is. >> no other substitute for getting. medical treatment. >> that. >> if they don't have medicaid. >> they just will not. >> get the. medical treatment that they need. >> so there's a march 14th government funding deadline. it's coming up. there's no clear plan in sight, as usual, being left to the. 11th hour when the gop even holds majorities in both chambers, they still can't seem to avoid the chaos. should americans be bracing themselves for a government shutdown? >> look. >> house democrats want a.

bipartisan deal on this. we do not want to shut down the government. we know. >> that that. >> hurts so many people. and we. >> are trying to work. >> in. >> good faith. >> to get there. >> i think for us, one. >> of the. >> things that's. >> most important. >> is making. >> sure that. >> whatever agreement. >> we get to has some sort. of assurances. >> that the executive branch will. >> actually be implementing. >> the funding that we vote on on a bipartisan basis. and as. >> you said, katie, they. >> have the majority. >> they actually. >> don't need. >> our votes. if they don't want to in the house. but, you know. >> we've seen. >> that they're unable to actually get anything done on their own. and so we're willing to work with them. but, you know, we want to make sure that anything we do actually will get implemented and that we push. >> back on some of. >> these really illegal. >> actions. >> of elon musk and doge. >> so you're doing you're doing some really good work. you always have been in congress. you're introducing bills to protect usaid, which we know has been a huge target for trump and

the musk. tech bros. >> but i have to ask. >> you, congresswoman, because i'm asked this by my followers on social, the viewers to the show. and i. >> want to know, as an american, what. >> else are you guys doing? right? because there's got to be pressure points on the other side. it's become a numbers game in terms of the republicans have this number and the democrats have this number. and i appreciate the strong words and i appreciate the introduction of bills. but when it comes down to a numbers game, what are the democrats doing to be able to make sure that we can stop the hemorrhaging. >> at a. >> writer from from wired who came on and said, the blast radius from this musk stuff is probably a lot bigger than any of us even have a handle on. >> well. >> i think that's exactly right. >> and so, look. >> we are working on. >> four. >> fronts, right? >> we're introducing legislation. and yes, we're in the minority. >> most of the time those bills might. >> not. >> come up for a vote. but the thing is, we only need 2 or 3

republicans to join. >> us in. >> voting to. address these issues. >> and we've heard, you know, for. >> the usaid issue, for. >> instance, every. single republican on the house select committee on competition with with china have signed on to a report that said fully. >> funding usaid was important for american. national security. right. so let's get those republicans on record. >> then. >> we're doing. >> we're working. >> with outside. >> groups on litigation. katy. >> as you know, we don't have standing to sue, but we are working with outside. >> groups on litigation, which. >> has been. >> really successful. in stopping these things. and we're doing our. >> oversight job right. >> we're asking questions, we're showing up. >> but the best tool we have is public pressure. >> that's that's. >> truly like i wish. >> there was more tools we had. >> in congress. but the. >> best tool we all have is. public pressure. and we're seeing. >> that that's starting. >> to work, right. >> we're seeing. >> folks show up in really red. >> republican districts. >> like in georgia, asking questions, being really angry about what elon musk. >> and.

>> doge are doing. and i think the more republicans start to feel this pressure, the more they'll be willing to work with us to stand up. >> to. >> what elon musk. >> and doge and donald trump. >> are doing. >> it's time for folks to step up and get into good trouble. as i said in the a block, congresswoman sarah was always so good to see you. thanks for being here. and we're going to turn now to some breaking news. >> out of israel. >> where six hostages were released by hamas this morning. in exchange, israel is expected to release 600 palestinian prisoners as a part of the cease fire deal. today marks the seventh hostage prisoner exchange and all living hostages who were a part of the first phase of the agreement have now been released. the first phase is expected to end this week as negotiations continue for the second phase of the deal. coming up next, the fight for florida. donald trump is already throwing his support behind a candidate in florida for the next governor of the sunshine state, but the democrats have any skin in the game to fight for florida's top

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>> green hydro steam pet. it's part steam powered stain remover and part party animal patrol. bissell a. >> new. >> breed of clean. >> florida's pushing forward with new immigration legislation that governor ron desantis is calling the toughest in the nation. and the cruelty isn't just the point. it's a plus. the state's new board of immigration enforcement met for the first time on monday, selecting former desantis public safety czar larry keefe as its executive director. keefe is no stranger to cruel immigration tactics, having organized those flights in 2022 that stranded migrants from texas in martha's vineyard. now, this board was created as a part of a pair of bills that were signed into law by desantis that are aimed at toughening the state's immigration enforcement. the laws will increase penalties for all crimes that are committed by immigrants in the country without authorization, including requiring the death

penalty for undocumented migrants who commit capital offenses. joining me now is florida. democratic state senator jason pizzo. jason, i'd. >> like to say that florida. >> is the epicenter of all things crazy in this instance, and i do want to get to the governor's race, but i do want to start with immigration. >> i also. >> said that desantis told donald trump, hold my beer. when trump thought that he had draconian immigration policies. what is going on? not only is it tens of millions of dollars that are being spent by desantis in pursuit of these immigration policies, but what i hear required and mandatory death penalty, which violates the, i don't know. >> law. >> eighth and 14th amendments. >> i have to scratch my head and say what is going on. >> and i do. >> the same. >> and sometimes. >> behind the scenes. >> just to make. >> sure that everyone is on the. >> same page. >> and understanding. >> what. >> they're advancing with eyes wide open at least. >> and then on the. >> floor and debating questions. i do the same. katie. the supreme court. well settled in 1976 and woodson versus state. >> it's having. >> mandatory death penalty.

>> is a violation of the eighth amendment. >> and then 87 found. 14th amendment due. process violations. and here's the thing. you're a former state prosecutor. i'm a former state prosecutor. >> from the same office. >> i'm not opposed to the death penalty, but i'm opposed to. is walking. right in for the sake of just messaging something that's a bunch of hot air that. >> really does. >> nothing other. >> than. >> just sort of feed a base or. an idea when. >> it's. >> actually untenable. if it's challenged. >> and again, it's. >> a part of. >> a pair. >> of bills that desantis signed into law that are incredibly aggressive, including, i read that now, the florida highway patrol, a state agency, is partnering with ice to be able to make traffic stops and to be able to effectuate more of these arrests. i mean, these all scream pretextual stops. these all scream like, these are going to be some serious constitutional violations that we're going to be seeing coming down the pathway. >> i take. >> a slightly different view. >> only. >> because it's consistent with messaging only. >> and really. >> you know, where's the teeth and application? the reason why i say that the moa that was

signed between. fhp and ice. >> a couple weeks ago. >> is. >> actually like. >> i don't know, the. >> 47th or. >> 48th that we. >> have in the state there under a 287 g. it's a subsection in federal statute, and it allows the volunteering participation of county facilities that have jails and. >> also a warrant. >> service kind of idea, joining in and. lending support. what was signed in that agreement did not require legislative participation. and sort of loudly. >> demonstrated that. >> that could be done. will you cooperate? >> will you participate? >> will you help us out? the federal government will reimburse you for expenses for either housing, people or. >> or training. >> and so forth. so really hasn't changed anything. the pair of bills that came out, one was, is constitutionally infirm from the beginning. and the first, the larger bill has 168 lines talking tough on on combating. >> illegal immigration. >> from a criminal perspective. but 17 lines go after the in-state tuition waiver. >> that was. >> given to kids in florida that we've had since perhaps since since infancy until 12th grade

in. the public school system and now. >> enjoy an. >> in-state. >> tuition waiver in our colleges and. >> universities, or rather de minimis amount when compared to the stunts and political theater that that desantis displayed by flying people to martha's vineyard or paying for flights to sacramento. >> so doesn't do that much. >> so why. >> though. >> do florida. republicans find the need, though? because i will say there was some pushback to ron desantis. >> in the. >> latest kind of round of. talks with the governor. >> but why. >> do florida republicans feel the need to be able to do what i think is just performative theater? then if you're telling me that you have a constitutionally infirm bill that's now going to have to go through, again, an expense to have to have legal challenges. and now we see ron desantis, his own wife, casey desantis, who was touted. as perhaps the next possible governor. >> for. >> the state of florida. we now see donald trump throwing his weight behind byron donalds. so when is enough? i guess maybe humiliation for florida republicans. >> so there's a lot of infighting, and it sort of poured. >> out into the public over the last few weeks.

>> amongst republicans, but really between the executive branch and the legislative branch. and i guess that band-aid being ripped off, you know, hurt a little bit more. >> but really. >> what it was is just restoring parity, getting back to a checks and balance system of co-equal branches of government. it's just for so long and leading up to leading up to desantis ambitions to run nationally, whatever the playbook was, my republican colleagues just went along with a bunch of things from woke and crt and book banning and all of and transgender high school athletes, none of these things that actually affect the checklist of family priorities. but now what what trump did by by sort of endorsing byron donalds, really what he did was he turned the spigot off on desantis being able to fundraise. that's really what it is that desantis, you know, loves to fundraise, loves, loves, loves the grift. and so that's really sort of a placeholder. i don't know how much trump's really going to be behind byron donalds in the future, to be honest with you. but really, what it did was with all the chatter about casey possibly running, it allowed the

floodgates to open. it was concurrent with an announcement that he's opening his pack once again to raise money to really install conservative values and conservative candidates in 2026, in florida. and when trump comes out and says, go big or go, that turns the fundraising faucet off. and siouxsie wiles, the chief of staff for trump, knows that all too well. one of the rubs she had with desantis early on, when he was starting out, was how much he wanted to immediately monetize his position. x thousands of dollars for dinner, x thousands of dollars to go play golf with the governor, etcetera. so that's that's what that's it's rather nuanced. but for us, sort of insiders in the capital, in tallahassee, they turn to fundraising spigot off. >> but it also, like i said, maybe forecloses now the opportunity for matt gaetz to run. >> i would love for matt gaetz to run. but i think if matt feels he's not shy, if matt feels sort of alienated for all of the loyalty and they feel sort of rather rejected from it, you know, perhaps he does pop in and become a spoiler. >> so what ends up happening, though, to florida moving forward, when you. have the kind

of collateral damage from desantis and you have the possibility of somebody like byron donalds, who really. is a super trump supporter, super maga supporter. >> yeah, but not much else besides that. well. >> i. >> was going to say there's no other meat on that bone. so what happens to florida with that being a prospect? who on the democratic side, senator pizzo steps up to the challenge. >> so we have we have to go to where. >> their voters are. >> we have to go and sort of sort of fighting and pushing back. i'm the minority leader of the of the senate democratic caucus right now, and the third largest state in the country of the upper chamber. and what i've implored my caucus members to understand and appreciate and please follow, don't take the bait. they're only as successful in getting traction on some crazy ideas and some nonsensical ideas, and rather inefficient and expensive ideas if we take the bait. what are we offering? my mother made it very clear to me before i ran for office. she says, don't go a day without knowing what it cost for a dozen eggs, a gallon of milk, and a gallon of gas. and today, in the state of florida, you're out of

pocket $15.5 just to get the dozen eggs, the gallon of milk and the gallon of gas and minimum wage is 13. what are the democrats offering? it's high time that we be less concerned about being so progressive and so loud and being afraid of some of those sort of on the left, just as the right has been as you're demonstrating, my republican colleagues have been held under the thumb of the whims and wishes of the governor for the past seven years. and now they're breaking out and finally sort of clawing back some autonomy, which is great. it's healthy. it's a democracy. so democrats kind of. stopped just sort of complaining and criticizing and pointing fingers. what are we offering? and you'll see this upcoming session that might not be so sexy, but i want to focus on infrastructure. i want to focus on small businesses. i want to focus on allowing the president of the senate, who is from a rural agricultural community, to express his passion and his beliefs, but also recognize that the high density areas that i live in, where my constituents are flush their toilets into 70 year old broken clay pipes, still to this day, that they have 200,000 septic tanks between where we are right now

and where i live. it's crazy. so let's focus on those things. none of these things we've been doing for seven years, katie, have lowered your auto insurance rates, your home insurance rates, or established, as you and i are primarily concerned with the future of our children have done nothing. nothing to leave them a better place than we found it. >> well, we're going to have to see whether there is an equal response of, i guess, just normalcy back to regulating and getting a balance, i think, in the universe over there. state senator jason pizzo, thank you so much for being here. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> and coming up next, the latest legal trump's big legal week of wins and losses for his sweeping agenda, including how a federal judge is banishing dodge bros. from treasury department systems and sensitive data. plus, friends of the court why a federal judge is indefinitely adjourning. new york city mayor eric adams is criminal trial, but not yet dismissing it entirely. joyce vance is going to join us to break it all down. to join us to break it all down. don't go anywhere.

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>> news and slightly less good news for new york mayor eric adams and his corruption charges. on friday, federal judge dale ho indefinitely postponed adams jury trial, but stopped short of dismissing the charges just yet. instead, judge ho appointed an outside lawyer, former u.s. solicitor general paul clement, to bring independent arguments before the court. judge ho noted, quote, there has been no adversarial testing since both trump's department of justice and adams's lawyers are in lockstep about the charges being dismissed. you may remember, trump's department of justice ordered the mayor's charges to be dropped, leading to a series of resignations by federal prosecutors amid accusations of a quid pro quo, something that adams denied under oath while in court on wednesday. joining me now is joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s. attorney in alabama and one of the co-hosts

of the amazing hashtag sisters in law podcast. but she also wears many other hats, including coming to the katie phang show to explain what's going on. joyce, we got to talk about this order just came out yesterday. judge denying right now or kind of putting on the back burner this idea that the charges being dropped against mayor eric adams. eric adams. i got to ask straight out of the gate, your thoughts about paul clement being appointed as a friend of the court as an amicus to file his own briefs and maybe even make oral arguments in this case. so i think judge ho's pick of paul clement, the former. solicitor general during the. >> george w. >> bush administration, is really an. inspired one because this is. >> an uber. >> conservative. >> experienced litigator. no one can. >> say that he's. >> someone who comes to the court with any. animosity for principles. >> of. conservative government. >> and he's deeply. >> steeped in. >> the traditions. >> of the justice department. >> having served. >> as the. solicitor general. >> it's an.

>> interesting approach. >> katie. >> as you. point out, eric adams trial. >> is now adjourned. it's adjourned. with no future. >> date set. >> for it. it's unlikely to occur. but judge ho. >> clearly wants to. >> fully explore the. >> issues and leave. a record before. >> he. >> signs off on the justice. >> department's request. >> to dismiss the indictment. they can. only do. >> that. >> with his permission. >> so. >> joyce, let's talk about process, right. so the doj files briefs, the defense files briefs. and now really the important information i think is going to come from paul clement. his own briefs are going to answer a series of questions and or issues that judge ho set forth in his order from yesterday. how much weight is judge ho going to be applying, do you think, to the recommendations and the information and the answers that are given by paul clement? >> so the. questions that the judge set. >> for the parties suggest that he really. >> is seriously. >> interested in hearing this

input. he can only. >> refuse to. >> sign off on the government's. >> request to dismiss. >> the indictment. >> if he. >> finds that. >> doing so would. >> work a. >> manifest public indignity. >> that it would somehow. >> demean the process and be. deeply unfair. >> and so some of the. >> questions that he asks are. very telling. >> in court. >> the justice department took the position that the judge couldn't. consider any evidence. >> outside of their motion. >> to dismiss. >> so now judge ho has. >> asked paul. >> clement to. >> weigh. >> in on that. and of. >> course. >> we've all. seen this. >> letter that was. >> written by the united states attorney for the southern. >> district of new york, now the. >> former, when she, in essence, resigned from the justice department. talking about. >> the illicit quid pro. >> quo that the government. obtained from adams. in exchange. >> for. >> this dismissal. >> so serious. >> considerations like that will be on the table before. >> judge ho rules. >> in this case. let's shift a little bit to hampton dellinger. he actually got a win i'd say

temporarily. right. a temporary win from the supreme court of the united states yesterday. he's heading up the office of the inspector general. excuse me, the office of special counsel. and there's an upcoming hearing on wednesday, february 26th. right now, the supreme court saying to dellinger, you can keep your job for now. there is a hearing that's going to take place in the district court. we'll kind of revisit it then. why do you think the supreme court declined to actually do something more substantive when it came to this particular issue? that's in front of it. >> so this. >> is purely. >> a political maneuver. >> what had. >> happened was that dellinger. >> who trump tried to fire, had. >> sued. >> saying that he was entitled. >> to stay. >> in his job and. >> the court gave him a temporary. >> restraining order. >> we've talked about these orders a lot, katie. these are orders. >> that just last. >> for a few days, or at most, a couple of weeks. it's a temporary effort to keep the status quo in. >> place while the court. >> gets ready to. >> consider the substantive issues, and. they are not appealable final orders.

>> so the supreme court simply stood here. >> for this. >> procedural notion. this isn't an. >> order that. >> you can appeal government. you'll you'll have to wait your turn. so, joyce, let's also look at what the associated press is doing right now. suing three trump administration officials on friday. yesterday was a busy day, as most fridays are these days. joyce suing on friday over access to presidential events, citing freedom of speech violations. i mean, this is a significant lawsuit. i feel like this is an opening shot across the bow, joyce, that is important for everyone to watch in america because the associated press was dinged severely by the white house, not given access because they refused to call it the gulf of america, which we know it's the gulf of mexico. so your thoughts about how important this lawsuit is going to be in terms of preserving the fourth estate, in making sure that there's some independence that remains there? well, this is a critically. important lawsuit. >> the ap took. >> some time. filing it.

>> now we. >> see why they're bringing. >> both first. >> amendment and fifth amendment. claims and. >> the conduct the. >> trump administration. >> has engaged in. >> towards the. >> associated press. clearly violates the first amendment. >> it is, in. >> essence. >> a prior restraint and a. >> degradation of. >> the free press. and the debate, as you pointed out, is very. simply over the. >> ap's decision to. >> continue calling the gulf. of mexico. the gulf of mexico. instead of. accepting trump's presidential. edict that it should now. >> be known. >> as the gulf of america. the ap is an international press organization. >> that's their explanation for why they continue. >> to use this name. and the white house's. >> objection is centered on the fact that. the ap. style guide, which now contains. that guidance on on the naming convention, is widely followed. >> that appears to be. >> why they've. >> singled them out as opposed to other news organizations using the same. >> naming, like the. >> new york times, which is still calling. it the gulf.

>> of mexico. >> but but look. >> we shouldn't. >> be confused or. >> think. >> that this is over a. >> trivial matter. >> because this case, as it reaches the. >> courts, will determine. >> the health. >> and. >> the vitality. >> of the media for the next. >> four years. >> and if the supreme. >> court, where this case is ultimately headed, doesn't. >> stand up. >> for the free press. >> then we know. >> that we're in. >> deep kimchi. >> joyce vance, it's always so good to see you. thank you so much for being here. and coming up, speaking truth to power. the stunning rebuke of trump's assault on the rule of law from the head of the american bar association, constitutional scholar and harvard law professor emeritus, laurence tribe, is here on the key role honest lawyers play and saving american democracy. that's coming up next. >> our restaurant's been in business for 17 years. american

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to issue a very strong statement, saying in part, quote, the administration cannot choose which law it will follow or ignore. these are not partizan or political issues. these are rule of law and process issues. we cannot afford to remain silent. we must stand up for the values we hold dear. the aba will do its part and act to protect the rule of law. joining me now is laurence tribe, professor emeritus at harvard law school and coauthor of to end a presidency the power of impeachment. professor tribe, you know, i want to read a really quick quote from the late, amazing congressman john lewis. when you see something that's not right, not fair, not just you have to speak up. you have to say something. you have to do something. i mean, professor tribe, this is exactly what the aba has done in its time. but isn't it amazing that we find ourselves in a climate where the aba was was forced to speak up. >> the aba. >> is a very conservative, nonpartisan organization. it condemned the biden executive

order restricting asylum last year. >> but this is. >> the first. >> time that. >> it has issued so sweeping a condemnation of an. entire presidential. >> administrations attack on. >> our legal system and our system of democracy. we are in a severe constitutional crisis. the savage executive orders stripping people of their rights, firing people in violation of various laws, protecting them, refusing to. >> spend power money that. >> congress had the power of the. >> purse to. >> tell. >> the executive. >> to spend. >> eliminating or. >> trying to eliminate. >> birthright citizenship. >> and thereby erasing. >> part of the constitution. >> it's part. >> of an overall. >> program run by musk, as. >> well as. >> trump, to undo our. fundamental system. >> of laws. nothing could be

more basic. the price. >> of eggs. >> matters. >> but it is the. constitutional structure that. >> protects us all that. >> endangers our economy. >> and everything as simple as grocery prices. >> we cannot. have the. >> system that. has enabled us to. thrive unless we. >> push back seriously. >> against. >> this hostile. >> takeover of the united states legal system. >> professor, how do we reconcile, then, what's being taught in our law schools, taught at a place like harvard law? how do we reconcile that with what we see from people like vice president jd vance, who says that the judiciary has no business telling the executive branch whether or not it has overstepped or violated laws? >> well, i. >> don't think jd. >> vance would. >> have said that if he was paying attention to what he learned. not at. >> harvard law school. >> as it happens. >> but at yale. >> law school. >> no law school.

>> in the country teaches. >> that it is up to. >> the. >> executive to. >> decide for. >> him or herself which actions. >> are legitimate. >> and which actions. >> are not. >> the principle. >> that nobody. >> can be a judge. in her own. >> case is. >> a principle that goes back 600. >> years at least. >> and you don't. >> have to be. >> a. >> lawyer to know that we rely. on independent courts. >> in. >> this country. >> to decide who. >> has gone. >> outside the limits of their power. if we abandon the power. >> of the judiciary. >> to police the boundaries. we've really lost everything. >> the administration. keeps playing. >> cat and mouse with the judiciary. they say we're going to comply with your order. maybe then they say we've complied. the judge comes. back and there are 8 or 9 cases like this. the judge comes. >> back. >> and says, it looks like you're in defiance. but i'll give you another day before i

start holding you in contempt. they come back and they find some other sort of squirrely way to pretend to comply, and yet to defy what the courts are doing. it's not going to be long before they come to a real clash. and i think that at that point, even trump. judges are going to say it is not up to you. we don't have a king. >> in. >> this country. when donald trump said just a few days ago. that in this country, if you save the. >> country. >> you are. >> obeying the law. he was basically. >> channeling napoleon for the proposition that he is the law. not even richard nixon went as far. this is a crisis that we have to stand up. >> you know, i spend a lot of time professor railing against what i call the enablers, the lawyers that represent trump, that go to court, make representations, make arguments that you and i both know don't hold water. i see people like rudy giuliani and sidney powell.

they've paid the price. there are consequences to their defense and representation of donald trump. but now i see the emil bove and the, i guess, pam bondi of the world. is that the next generation of enablers? >> well, i hope not. i think law. >> schools have. >> to do a better job. >> of. >> inculcating a fundamental. >> sense of ethics and morality, along with the. >> technicalities and substantive. principles of the law. george washington, in his farewell address, reminded us that however. >> good our institutions. >> are. >> they're not going. >> to be better than the people that run them. >> if we train. >> a cadre. >> of lawyers. >> who are in. >> it for personal and fame and celebrity and sort of not for principle, not for saving the. >> integrity of the. >> system and. serving those who. >> are victims of. >> injustice, then we will. >> really have given up what makes this country. the beacon

of hope for the rest of the world. that would be a sad day, and. we cannot allow ourselves to simply. become passive. >> and to despair. >> we have. >> to be. organized about. >> fighting back. >> professor emeritus laurence tribe, you are right and we will fight back. thank you so much for being here, i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> and thank you all for joining us today. but please don't go us today. but please don't go anywhere. msnbc reports with —hi! —hi! ♪♪ chocolate fundraiser. ♪♪ with the chase mobile app, things move a little more smoothly. ♪♪ deposit checks easily and send money quickly. [coins clinking] ♪♪ that's convenience from chase. make more of what's yours. with fatigue and light-headedness,

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