tower or just. >> it's very ivory tower. it's very. take the high road. it's very well, i, you know, i at least can say that i, you know, i reached across the aisle or the decorum. they're worried about order and decorum. it's like no one cares about that anymore. >> no one cares. >> and that side definitely doesn't care. so why are you trying to play by you know, to use a sports analogy, you're using an outdated playbook. it doesn't work. >> my conversations with jamal hill, we just saw a clip of and governor j.b. pritzker dropped tomorrow morning. you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. that does it for me today, but we'll be back here tomorrow night at 8 p.m. eastern. in the meantime, stay right where you are because there's much more news coming up on msnbc. >> this hour. senator chris van hollen of maryland, we're going to talk to him about the outrage over all of president trump's spending cuts and firings. plus,

what lies ahead three years after the start of the ukraine russia war. also, congressman robert garcia of california says he won't be silenced. you're going to hear from him in minutes after he's directly threatened by the trump doj. a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone. to alex witt reports. we begin with new reaction to head butting in the trump administration over a new order from billionaire advisor elon musk. on saturday, musk announced on social media all federal employees must fill out productivity reports or resign. then, a few hours later, the fbi and state department both issued memos to staff telling them to ignore musk's order. >> if i could say one thing to elon musk, it's like, please put a dose of compassion in this. these are real people. these are real lives. it's not unusual in

a corporate setting to have people report and explain what they're doing, especially if they're working from home. >> meantime, the debate over the president's approach, a big topic on the sunday talk shows today. >> donald trump is a chaos agent who promised to lower costs, lower the high cost of living in the united states of america. and he's doing the exact opposite because he's not focused on it. >> i think american voters like the intensity and the focus that they've seen from 30 some days of this administration going about doing the things they told the voters they were going to do. >> well, town halls packed saturday with constituents giving elected leaders an earful. >> when are you going to wrest control as the congress back from the executive and stop hurting your constituents? the president. >> it has an agenda and he's doing things. doge is in the house, and our job is to do certain things. >> also new a poll on president

trump's task force for cutting federal spending 42% support, 53% opposed. and here's nbc national correspondent steve kornacki on meet the press today. >> look at the personalities. now, the public faces of this administration, not just the president, the vice president. and, of course, you were just talking about elon musk. what you're measuring here is just basic popularity. do you have a favorable or unfavorable view of these people? again, that number looks just like his approval rating does. you can see it's about evenly split with musk. it is now 50% unfavorable. and then when you ask folks just about that job that musk has taken inside the government here trying to find trying to make cuts here, and again, you can see 49% disapproval. only a third approving. >> meantime, another pentagon firing two u.s. officials say air force lieutenant general jennifer short, who is defense secretary pete hegseth. senior military aide has been removed from the job. and it comes after president trump fired joint chiefs of staff chairman cq

brown jr. the country's highest ranking military officer. >> this is a reflection of the president wanting the right people around him to execute the national security approach. we want to take and i have a lot of respect for cq brown. i got to know him over the course of a month. he's an honorable man. >> and breaking news germany's elections wrapped up just about an hour or so ago, with the country mired in its worst economic crisis in decades. conservatives are leading with the far right alternative for germany. that party's in second place. we're going to have more on this later in the hour for you and throughout the show. but we're going to begin right now with nbc's vaughn hillyard. he's at the white house. so, vaughn, big welcome to you, my friend. what are we learning about that mass email that musk sent to all federal workers and the reaction to it? >> right. this appears to be the first fissure between elon musk and actual agencies and departments and leaders, including kash patel at the fbi,

who told the workers and agents at the fbi not to reply to the email that elon musk had his dodge team send out yesterday evening, demanding that all federal employees respond with five bullet points of what progress and accomplishments they had in the week prior or resign. and now there's a distinction here we should be very clear about. in his social media post on x, it was the reply or resign rhetoric that elon musk used. but in the actual email, it said that there was a deadline of monday at midnight, but did not say that individuals would be considered to have automatically resigned if they do not reply. instead, it requested them to reply. i want to let you though, listen to president trump, who by all accounts over the last month has handed elon musk his vast power, called him a patriot yesterday and suggested that he wants even more. take a listen.

>> we're removing all of the unnecessary, incompetent and corrupt bureaucrats from the federal workforce. that's what we're doing. we want to make government smaller, more efficient. we want to keep the best people, and we're not going to keep the worst people. and, you know, we're doing another thing. if they don't report for work, we're firing them. >> just yesterday at cpac there, he touted the thousands of workers that had already been terminated. and on social media posts, he said that he wanted elon musk to be more aggressive. and that's when that email went out just hours later to all federal workers. and yet we saw some departments and agencies tell their workers that to not reply here. where does this go from here? i think that's the outstanding question in all of this. but polling beyond even those numbers that you showed, and steve kornacki showed a quinnipiac poll shows that a majority of americans believe that elon musk has too much power right now. and just over a

third of folks believe that he is using his power in the right way. and so i think this really calls into question what elon musk moving forward, and the extent to which there's going to be pushback by leaders, not just workers whose jobs are on the line, but leaders of these departments and agencies who are getting these directives now directly from elon musk. >> yeah, the plot thickens, and we're going to get into it right now with my next guest. but i think you in the meantime, my friend vaughn. thank you. so joining me right now, we have democratic congressman from california, robert garcia. he is a member of the house oversight and transportation committees. welcome to you, congressman. so let me ask you about this. what do you think the goal is of elon musk right now in trying to have people account for what they do during the day? >> i think all of this comes back down to elon musk trying to shrink the federal government, create as much quote unquote, savings as he can, and then take

all of that work, all of that, those resources, and then redistribute them as a massive tax package for himself, his billionaire buddies, and essentially all his companies. and this is all about taking wealth, taking taking resources from the federal government in programs that actually are helping working people and then give those in a huge tax to himself. and he himself has said he wants to eliminate one $2 trillion from the government. well, there's no way of doing that unless you dramatically reduce programs for working people. programs like medicaid, like medicare, like social security. and he's doing that by damaging our government workers if there's not people doing the work, these programs then suffer. so it's completely inhumane what he's doing, by the way, no compassion, no thought about these people that are working hard to deliver services. and quite frankly, it's crazy that this is his approach. >> so you're offering reasons for him doing it, but is it

legal? are there security concerns for this directive? >> there are there are there are massive, massive security concerns. and we're also offering to the courts, rightly so, because he has over and over again, essentially putting out directives that are unconstitutional and illegal in this case. and i'm glad to see you actually having agencies push back. i mean, the fact that the state department, the fbi, other agencies are essentially pushing back and saying do not respond to this is the right approach. >> but but my question on there, are we now going to see some sort of, i guess von use the word fissure. are you going to see director patel, secretary of state rubio now, you know, thinking we're going up against this guy. and how will that play out? >> well, i look, i think, i would hope that republicans would gain the courage to actually stand up for their workers. i mean, at the end of the day, secretary rubio represents a state department. there are a, you know, tons of people in that department,

thousands and thousands of people working abroad and here at home to protect our best interests, our national security, our diplomacy. he has a mission. he should be standing up for his people. so i'm glad that that actually happened. but at the end of the day, the responsibility lies with donald trump. so did donald trump know that elon musk was going to send out this email that essentially his doge was going to send this email? it's crazy. >> here's the reason why it may have been a cause effect, because the emails were elon musk's first action after the president said on x that he wanted to see him get more aggressive. how much further do you think musk could go, and what are you hearing from your constituents? or are they equally frustrated by musk and his actions and the democrats inability to push back? >> yeah, i mean, alex, i received numerous messages from federal workers screenshotting forwarding me the email that they received. i mean, people are very concerned. workers, remember, the federal workforce also is not just based in d.c. it's all across the country.

it's in blue states. it's in red states. there are people that voted for donald trump, republicans that are sitting back going, what the hell did we just do? so you are beginning to see some pushback and understanding that what donald trump and elon musk want to do is to destroy our institutions and remake the government and shrink it so they can give huge tax breaks to billionaires and elon musk. let's be really clear about what their goal actually is here. but look, we are causing massive alarm. attorney generals are coming in from the states. we're winning some of these lawsuits. we're going to continue to push the legal strategy and continue to be aggressive and not back down on elon musk. what we have to do is fight fire with fire and be tough and be aggressive. fight elon musk and donald trump every chance that they push, we got to push back. >> so that's something you have been doing. but as a result, you received a letter last week from acting u.s. attorney for dc ed martin, asking you to clarify in part, some comments that you made to cnn when you said what the american public wants is for

us to bring actual weapons to this bar fight. this is an actual fight for democracy. then martin says in the letter, hey, sounds to some like a threat to mr. musk. what do you think he's looking to achieve by sending you this letter? and have you responded? >> i mean, look, we all use metaphors. i mean, there's no reasonable person that would hear what i said and think that was threatening in any way. it was obviously metaphor or figurative speech. i mean, come on. what? it's pretty clear, i think, what donald trump and his justice department are trying to do is to silence critics. it's to silence folks who want to take on elon musk. we're going to take on donald trump and his policies and this idea that metaphors are threatening. yet he's going to pardon the insurrectionists, that the u.s. attorney who sent that letter actually defended january 6th insurrectionists. that is that is what they're going after is figures of speech and metaphors. it's pretty crazy. it's ridiculous. and look, we he's given us this week to respond. we'll see what that response is.

but i'm not going to do is be silenced. i'm not going to back down. we have to every single time push back with everything we got. this is not a moment to allow them to roll over our institutions and intimidate us from speaking out. >> look, you may have some company because the washington post reports that the letter you received, it is part of a larger initiative led by martin. of course, the acting federal prosecutor called operation whirlwind to reportedly prosecute threats against public officials. but again, you say that you're speaking tongue in cheek. you're using metaphors. you're not, you know, don't don't translate literally what you said. but are you worried you might get caught up in that effort? >> no, i'm look, i'm not i'm not concerned about doing the right thing and about standing up to elon musk and donald trump. and i'm certainly not going to stop using metaphors and figures of speech. i mean, again, it's a there's no threat there. no one believes in actual that we

should be having violence. and so i think we have to continue to push back every time we can. >> you're going to keep on keeping on, which means coming back and seeing us again soon, my friend. thank you. robert garcia from california. a lot was said at town halls and protests around the country this week. you're going to hear from someone who was in the room during one meeting. his takeaways are fascinating. takeaways are fascinating. you'll hear him in 90s. (man) got one more antoine. (vo) with usps ground advantage, it's like you're with us every step of the way. ♪ (man) cooool. ♪ (man) right on time! (vo) stay in the know. from your dock... to their door. [coughing] —sounds like you need to vaporize that cold. nyquil vapocool? it's nyquil plus a rush of vicks vapors. ♪vapocooooool♪

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>> that's all we ask is for you to stand up. >> because we are all alright. >> republicans in congress. they are feeling the heat from angry constituents in their home states. as the trump administration slashes thousands of federal jobs amid spending cuts. in town halls across the country, voters are demanding answers, including in georgia, where republican congressman rich mccormick struggled to appease a frustrated crowd. >> the funny thing is, you're sitting here and you're you're probably saying those january six's who are yelling just as loud as you. >> are angry, saying how they sad. >> i've seen game of thrones to thank you. let's go ahead and move on. because. >> yikes. we're going to bring in greg bluestein, who shot that video from mccormick's town hall. he, of course, an msnbc political contributor and senior

political reporter for the atlanta journal constitution and author of flipped how georgia turned purple and broke the monopoly on republican power. wow. the big word i took away. shame, shame, shame. i'm curious. since you were there, give us a breakdown of who was in the room. how much pro trump, how much anti-trump, and which group was most prominent. >> yeah. good question. well, first of all, i was not expecting this level of pushback. i was expecting some pushback, but not what i saw in that room a couple of nights ago. this is the sort of the southern end of rich mccormick's district, a republican friendly district. it was drawn by republicans for a conservative to win. but it's a swingy territory. this is a suburb of atlanta called roswell that is, you know, has has been republican in the past and flipped blue. it's predominantly democratic now. but but there were a lot of republicans in that room. there were also obviously a lot of democrats in that room who are voicing their frustration. i talked to several attendees who said they were trump supporters. they were

supporters of governor brian kemp in the last midterm election here in georgia. but they were upset about all the initiatives that trump has taken in his first few weeks in office, including the doge cuts to the cdc based just on a few miles down the road in the heart of atlanta. >> give me a sense, though, a theme, perhaps to the grievances. and was the criticism directed more to doge or elon musk or president trump or even congress for not pushing back? maybe some democrats were saying that. >> yeah, that's a good question because it was a mix of all. there was a lot of frustration at rich mccormick, who was not a trump supporter initially. in last year's campaign, he initially supported ron desantis. so a lot of frustration aimed at him for not being an independent voice. at one point he said, you don't think i can be independent? and everyone in the crowd yelled, or a lot of people in the crowd yelled no! and stood up and got very angry. but a lot of that vitriol was also aimed at elon musk. right. you know, he is someone who, of course, was not elected. and that chainsaw image of him kind of, you know,

wielding the chainsaw at the cpac stage was fresh in a lot of people's minds. and so i think that is one of the reasons why we saw a particular backlash aimed at elon musk. >> i mean, i was talking about analogies earlier with the congressman. that's not necessarily a good one right there. yesterday, musk did send that mass email to federal employees, instructing them to provide a detailed account of their work last week. and in that post on x, musk threatened they're going to lose their jobs if they don't comply. but then that was not included in the actual email. given what you heard at the town hall, how is this move going to land? >> yeah, there's a lot of confusion. i mean, federal employees, they're already rattled by all the layoffs, all the buyouts. and this is only going to add to that, that sort of confusion. but here, you know, outside of washington, here in, you know, the other parts of the country, it's the cuts to the cdc, it's the cuts to some of these aid programs. it's the cuts to federal workforce, is far outside of washington, is really hitting home. and i think that the cuts to the cdc, about 1000 employees

were cut about a week ago. that really hit home to a lot of georgians who might have seen the elon musk news as something far outside of the spectrum here. you know, something that's happening in washington, something that's not happening in their backyards. now they're seeing it in their own backyards. >> yeah, absolutely. well, we appreciate the video and the conversation as always. greg bluestein, thank you. senator chris van hollen of maryland reacts to this and more next. >> i had. >> eight utis in one year. this inspired me and my partner spencer to launch uqora. uqora makes effective urinary tract health products. >> it truly works miracles. >> the peace of mind. >> i've been looking for. >> could you quora.com to learn more? >> hi, i'm ellen. >> i'm portia. >> we're talking to cameras that are in our living room about kind science. i used to think the more money i spent on my skincare, the more effective it would be. the better it would be, the better i'd look. but

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>> when you're staring down a $36 trillion in debt and counting, you know, obviously something has to has to give. and i think that's what we're seeing right now. a comprehensive forensic audit of every department and agency in the federal government. >> donald trump is a chaos agent who promised to lower costs, lower the high cost of living in the united states of america. and he's doing the exact opposite because he's not focused on it. he's unleashing chaos on the american people. we are not losing in court. we are actually winning in court. the trump administration is losing. >> joining me now is maryland senator chris van hollen, a member of the budget, appropriations and foreign relations committees. senator, it's awfully good to have you here. sir, i'm curious your reaction to what you just heard. is this spiraling national debt justification for these mass firings? >> well, alex, it's good to be

with you. no, that's all a big lie that they're putting out there, because, of course, they're pursuing big tax cuts for very rich people. that would add hugely to our deficit. you know, as hakeem jeffries said, candidate trump said he was going to bring down prices. he's not doing that. what he is doing is cutting with a chainsaw important services that benefit every american to make room for those tax cuts for the very rich. and so they want to cut things like medicaid, medicare. and on top of that they will add to the deficit and debt. >> so let's get your reaction to elon musk's email to hundreds of thousands of federal workers asking them to explain what they've accomplished over the last week at work. i'm curious to your reaction to that and what you think the impact will be to thousands of federal workers in your state, in maryland, there, as well as

across the country from these sweeping cuts? >> well, alex, this is part of what is an illegal rampage by elon musk across these federal agencies. and again, the purpose is twofold. one is to make government work for people like elon musk. right. they want to get rid of the inspector generals, and they want to make way for taking actions to help people like elon musk. the other is to clear the way for tax cuts for the very rich. so this has nothing to do with government efficiency and everything to do with, again, making the government work for musk. now, as you said, this most recent order from elon musk is it's illegal. you even have the new fbi director write patel saying to his employees, no, elon musk doesn't get to do this. you have you respond to your supervisors. elon musk is not, you know, part

of the constitution. he didn't go through the advice and consent process, which is why federal judges have already indicated that there are serious questions about the legality of his whole operation, and i think we need to shut it down. >> i want to dig into the legal aspect, because many democrats are sounding the alarm about president trump and elon musk using executive power, claiming their withholding of congressionally approved funding, and then firing federal workers that it is illegal. it's driving the government into some sort of a constitutional crisis. are we there yet, sir? or are the courts working as a check to presidential power and keeping away that crisis for now? >> well, we're there in the sense that donald trump has issued all of these executive orders, which anybody can see. he doesn't have the power to do. i mean, he's he's trying to do things by executive order that require congressional action and the normal process. i do think

that the courts have been responding well. i mean, when you have this mass illegality, you're seeing all these lawsuits and all these temporary restraining orders. one of them is you just indicated relates to the trump administration's effort to withhold funds for important community priorities around the country. there's a tro on that. and there are also issues with respect to their firing of these federal employees. federal employees have due process rights. and elon musk and his, you know, cohorts are just lying about, you know, what they're doing. and there are, for example, for a federal employee, you fire them because of misconduct or poor performance. and they're sending out these letters claiming federal employees haven't performed adequately when those federal employees just received glowing

performance reports. so they're lying. and this is an illegal operation. >> let's take a look at the sweeping budget plan that's being put forth by the house, because it could result in some pretty steep cuts to medicaid, to food stamps, to other social safety net programs. what would this propose $2 trillion in spending cuts mean for average americans? i'm curious the concerns that you're hearing from constituents, and do you think this budget will get through? >> well, i'm glad you raised this, because we were up to about 5:30 a.m. in the united states senate. the republicans brought forward their so-called budget resolution, which is clearly setting things up for these huge tax breaks for very rich americans at the expense of everybody else. and so we tried to put some guardrails around it. so, for example, we said, well, don't cut medicare. don't cut medicaid. i offered an amendment so you wouldn't cut school lunches for kids. and one

after another, republicans refused to put up those guardrails. so it's very clear what their plan is. their plan is to provide elon musk and all those other billionaires who are sitting right behind donald trump when he was sworn in with these big tax cuts at the expense of everybody else in america. >> i mean, it doesn't seem like that's what they were elected to do. >> but let's move overseas. now, as i ask you about that meeting that you and other senators had with ukrainian president zelensky. that was in munich. that was now a couple weekends ago. so on the eve of the third anniversary of russia's invasion and president trump's pivot towards moscow's interests, what did zelensky say to you about his hopes for ending the war? >> well, alex, nobody would like to see the war in ukraine come to an end. then the people of ukraine, i mean, they've lost tens of thousands of people. they're suffering, but they also care about their sovereignty and

their democracy and their way of life. and so for donald trump to throw the ukrainian people under the bus is unconscionable. and it's a it's a great victory for putin and president xi in china and all those people who wish democracy ill. and of course, it's understandably scaring our european allies, because this is more than rhetoric. i believe this is reality. donald trump is on putin's side, and he's throwing ukraine under the bus. >> yeah, let me just say, my executive producer said in my ear that meeting was last weekend. to which i say it's been a long week. but you're probably feeling a level of jet lag still. so let me ask you about ukraine, which is indicated it is considering essentially the same u.s. proposal that it turned down last week, one that would give the u.s. half of its mineral and gas revenues with no security guarantee in exchange. so let's take a listen to what the president said about that yesterday.

>> i want them to give us something for all of the money that we put up, and i'm going to try and get the war settled, and i'm going to try and get all that debt ended. so we're asking for rare earth and oil. anything we can get. >> what do you make of this deal? are you confident that the administration will negotiate a peace that guarantees ukraine's security? >> oh, i'm not at all comfortable that they'll do that. in fact, you know, the president began the negotiations by giving up american leverage by saying that ukraine could never become part of nato, and the u.s. will provide no security guarantees. they also made territorial concessions right out of the box. look, alex, you may get to some of those points through negotiation, but throwing the ukrainians under the bus from the beginning is no way to do that. with respect to the minerals deal. you know, ukrainian people recognize that

the united states has been on their side. they would welcome american investment in ukraine, and i'm sure they'd be willing to enter into some kind of arrangements. but for the president, united states, to extort the people of ukraine when they're under the gun, under fire from putin is outrageous. i mean, can you imagine fdr saying to churchill while the nazis were bearing down, you know, just give us half your coal reserves and your mineral reserves and then then we'll help you out in the face of these attacks. it's just outrageous. and, you know, people around the world are understandably worried about american leadership. i mean, this is not america first. this is america in retreat. >> and we heard that echoed from munich and beyond after that meeting. so, senator van hollen, awfully good to speak with you, sir. i hope you have a good sunday. thank you. >> and you too. >> thank you. what we know about >> thank you. what we know about the health of pope francis. with fatigue and light-headedness,

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>> casino slots. >> go for the gold. hey. >> that's my line. >> 38 pass. with the breaking news on pope francis, we've just heard some new information about his health. it's coming from the vatican. and joining me now from rome is nbc's claudio lavanga. claudio, what have you found ou. >> about that? >> hey, alex. well, yeah, you just got it about ten minutes ago. that update on the pope's health. now, i'll just give you the highlights. essentially, it says that the pope's condition remains critical, even though

since last night, he did not have any further respiratory problems. at the same time, he continues to have a high flow oxygen therapy coming through his nostrils. so to help him to breathe better. now it also says that the blood transfusion that he received yesterday worked, and it helped in increasing his hemoglobin levels. so that's under control right now. but it also says that the latest blood tests reveal an initial light kidney insufficiency, even though that also is currently under control. the statement continues by saying that the pope is alert, and that this morning he followed the holy mass from his apartment in the hospital, meaning the holy mass here that was taking place here in saint peter's square. so a mix of reassuring and not so reassuring news. alex. of course, the pope remains in critical condition, but it seems like that all levels are under control, at least for now. alex. >> okay, well, at least if he's

stable, that's a good thing. i imagine a lot of people are still gathering, praying for the pope in saint peter's square there behind you. >> yeah. >> okay. yeah. all right. claudio lavanga, thank you so much. we will see you again. meantime, former vice president kamala harris had something to say about the state of the say about the state of the country. what she said is next. [monologue] i got somebody for that! ♪♪ i got somebody for that. ♪♪ i got somebody for that! you guys got somebody for peyronie's disease? ♪♪ there's hope for the estimated 1 in 10 men who may have peyronie's disease, or pd. a urology specialist who treats pd can help you create a plan— including nonsurgical options. find somebody today at gogetsomebody.com

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the decision to send federal workers emails, ordering them to detail their accomplishments the past week or lose their jobs. musk claims a significant number of people are doing little to no work. democrats are slamming the cuts. >> i'll be the. >> first one to tell. >> you that the that the federal government, the bureaucracy, can absolutely use a diet, but the way doge has done it, where he's just indiscriminately gone in and particularly focused on firing young people who are often the most energetic federal bureaucracy actually keeps the plane flying, keeps, you know, viruses out of our meat. if there's ever a pandemic, it's going to be the cdc that they rely on to keep us safe. and when you just go in with a buzz, the chainsaw that you saw musk waving around, you know, that's a real problem. >> with me. now, we have political strategist alicia johnson, who is author of the upcoming book flip the tables, along with don calloway, host of the caucus room podcast and republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio. hey, guys, thank you so

much for being here. alicia. you first. do you think musk really believes there are all these people who are collecting paychecks who actually don't do anything? or is there a different motive? could it be getting a certain message out there? >> listen. >> elon musk doesn't care about any of these federal employees, and that is very clear. he cares about his billions in government contracts. he cares about getting rid of the agencies and the people that were investigating some of the work that he was doing, and making sure that the things that he was doing and what he said he was going to do. so elon musk has motive. motivation is not necessarily what the majority of the american people want. listen, there is conversation on both sides of the aisle from voters of both parties who do want transparency in the government and want to know what the government is doing. if they are spending in places that they believe in. but majority of americans don't want elon musk, who is not elected, to be in charge of employment, as well as the everyday things that the federal government takes care

of, that makes sure people can live in this country and get jobs and have resources. and so i think the american people are going to start pushing back even harder on elon musk, as we've seen people started doing last week. and a lot of those those town halls. >> i mean, look, susan, there are more than 2 million federal workers. what is the plan here? are musk and doge planning to read each of those responses and somehow determine who is and who isn't doing legitimate work? absolutely not. >> and you're right about the. >> 2 million federal. >> employees, alex. that number is a lot to most people. but here's the thing. and just to play on what he was saying, the, for example, cutting probationary workers, the reason why they're cutting probationary workers is they're the ones with the least protections. but it doesn't mean they're just firing new people into the workplace. they could be firing veterans, for example, who have served our country and now wants to go back into government in a different way. these are the ways that elon musk can show, quote,

receipts in cutting costs, because these are the people you can cut the fastest and the easiest. there is no thought process as to who is important, who is not, because i could say that maybe the worker who's been there the longest necessarily isn't the most valued and vice versa. so when it when we're looking at elon musk's goals here, it is just simply to please trump and get his numbers up, even if he inflate as we know, he's recently confused 8 billion with $8 million in cuts. and he'll continue to do so. and unfortunately, i think too much emphasis is placed on elon musk and not donald trump. donald trump is the one cutting the workforce. let's be clear here. elon musk has no authority to do that without donald trump's blessing. >> yeah, but let me ask you quickly, susan, do you think people perceive it that way? or has donald trump done a really

good job of deflecting this onto elon musk? >> donald trump has done a great job in deflecting it. let elon musk take to all the cuts, let him take all the blame. and when it is time. make no mistake about it, donald trump will turn on elon musk and say, oh, i thought he was doing a good job, but he went too far. i didn't authorize that and throw him right under the bus. and elon musk has nothing else to do but accept it because of his billions of dollars in government contracts. >> so don, doge and musk, do they understand the consequences both economically and the direct impact of these jobs not getting done because they're cutting them? >> well, i think there's two ways to look at that in terms of understand. >> from a purely intellectual perspective. >> do they. >> get it? >> perhaps they do. >> if you remember. elon musk back in september, october, once he went all in with the trump campaign to the tune of $500 million or more, he said, hey, listen, once we do what we're going to do, executing project 2025 and more, the middle class

is going to have to feel the pain of that. i think elon musk is very well aware that an african american middle class, and frankly, a working middle class in this country, was built by the notion of a strong federal bureaucracy, which does substantive work but also provides strong benefits. he is well aware of what those cuts mean to a working middle class. unfortunately, middle class members of congress on both the state and federal federal legislative side, even if they identify as republican, perhaps are not as aware, but they're starting to be aware with the upcoming town halls. now, there's one thing to be aware. there's another thing to care. elon musk does not care about broad republican priorities, or broad working class or even conservative priorities. he cares about the increase of his opportunities in the private sector, particularly those cuts that are coming from departments that have direct governance over his primary contracts. but i would also suggest, alex, i haven't been on with you in a few weeks. thanks for having me

back. i would also suggest that while we are looking at elon musk, there are 13 departments of the federal government, each of which who have five billionaires waiting at the doors knowing what they can take based upon their universes of industry. and some of those 13 departments, there are a thousand subdivisions of government, each of whom have multiple millionaires. understanding how they can raid those governments and those government budgets and a very similar manner. so elon musk is not a distraction, but we should know that he is only an exemplar at the highest level. but there's lots of barbarians waiting at the gate to get what they can from the raiding of federal government in a similar way. >> and for the record, you're always welcome on the show. and let me just say when you were saying they're aware, but do they care? i'm seeing a t shirt with their faces, you know, emblazoned on them with that logo. i'm just saying. so, valencia, we've seen pushback to musk's actions at these republican town halls. trump's approval rating that's dipping. and a new reuters poll shows low to middling support for much of

his agenda. but it also finds 94% of maga voters support musk's so-called cost cutting efforts. for how long do you think? >> listen, i think once the american people start actually feeling the impact of what is happening, those numbers will change. but right now, look, they look like it's smoke and mirrors, but it looks like they're doing something. signing all these executive actions, regardless of how many are caught up in legal cases, it looks like something is getting done. but let's be very clear here, alex. we donald trump has only been president for a little over 30 days, that those numbers could wane by the time we get to the state of the union, by the time we get to the first 100 days. and if those town halls are any indicator, i can imagine republicans in congress are going to have to figure out whether or not they want to stand up to donald trump. and actually, you know, protect their constituents, or are they going to go with us and then potentially lose

catastrophically in the midterms like we haven't seen since 2020, 2010? excuse me when it happened to democrats. >> real quick, susan, because you write, you believe trump is winning the pr battle. you say low information voters present president donald trump to them. they present a flurry of executive orders. it looks like action. but when does you know? then when does the action start having more tangible effects? and then they say, wait, we don't like this. >> well, i think all of these the actions he's taking is deflecting from the biggest reason donald trump was elected and not maga. but other republicans supported him. the economy. we are one inflation report away from seeing how well donald trump's economic numbers really look. and when we're talking about firing a general or getting rid of the penny or mass emails to the government workforce, we're not talking about the economy. and i think donald trump likes that just fine enough. >> okay, susan and don and valencia guys got to call that a wrap. but thank you so much. we

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have won about 20% of the vote in this election. 1 in 5 german voters casting their ballot for the far right. that is by far their best result since the defeat of the nazis in the second world war. we're speaking to you from the headquarters of the social democrats. they are the incumbent, center left party who have been leading the government for the last couple of years. and i can tell you, alex, when those exit polls came in at 6 p.m. local time, it was just like a funeral in here. not only do these people realize that they were losing power, but they realized that they had come behind the far right, and it is just a stunning moment in this country. as you mentioned, the afd went into this election with the explicit endorsement of elon musk. just this morning, alex, he posted a video from one of the afd's most extreme leaders. this is a man who a german court has ruled can be