by granger for the ones who get it done. >> that'll do it for me. thanks for watching. i'll be back next saturday and sunday at 6 p.m. eastern. follow us on instagram, tiktok and threads using the handle at weekend and blue sky using at capehart dot. msnbc.com. catch clips of the show on youtube. you can also listen to every episode as a podcast for free. just scan the qr code on your screen to follow. don't go anywhere. ayman is next. >> good evening. tonight on ayman, the current remodel of

american government. it's a four decade dream that the gop is making a reality. plus, it is election day in germany. but what does the outcome mean for europe and for the us? and we're going to talk to democratic congressman jake klaus, who has a unique take on how his party can persist in the era of donald trump. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's do it. the purge carries on. elon musk and donald trump's campaign to hollow out the federal government is in overdrive this weekend, but not everyone seems to be on the same page after musk's ultimatum, saying in a post on x that federal employees must respond to an email justifying their jobs or else resign. leaders at several agencies have instructed their employees not to respond. even fbi director kash patel, a true trump loyalist, told his team to pause any responses to

musk's email, saying the fbi will review the work of its employees using its own procedures. today, nbc news has new reporting on this idea that trump and musk have been floating about sending doge dividends to american taxpayers. amazingly, the idea came when a man posted about it on x getting musk's attention, who then took the idea to trump. and based on our reporting, trump liked the idea so much that he started floating it on stage in miami last week. if these doge checks ever come according to the plan being floated now, low income americans would not receive the checks. this fake populism that we're seeing from trump is nothing new, but it gives us a window into how we should be both assessing and combating the trump presidency. when donald trump first ran for president back in 2016, he ran as an anti anti-politician and a populist before he defeated hillary clinton in the democratic party. he destroyed what was left of the unpopular and discredited republican party. yes, he did so

using nativism and racism, pledging to build a wall to keep mexicans out and ban muslims. but he also mixed in some real economic populism. remember this. everybody's got to be covered. this is an un-republican thing for me to say, because a lot of times they say, no, no, the lower 25% they can't afford private but. >> universal health care. >> i'm going to take care of everybody. i don't care if it costs me votes or not. everybody is going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now. >> the uninsured person, right, is. >> going to be taken care. >> of, going to be taken care of. how i would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. and you know what? this is. >> a deal. who pays for it? >> the government is going to pay for it, but we're going to save so much money on the other side. >> yes, that was presidential candidate donald trump sounding like bernie sanders promising government backed health care for all. it's obvious that those days are long gone in trump's republican party. forget about universal health care today. today's donald trump is backing the house gop budget plan that would result in huge cuts to

medicaid, which is government backed health care for the poor. and don't forget about trump's closing message in 2016, because if you change a few words and images, it could have come from a left wing economic populist promises to take on wall street, fight the donor class and special interests who he claimed to reject money from because he was so rich. this obviously is laughable in the moment that we find ourselves in. trump's campaigns were completely reliant on special interest money. oil companies, foreign entities, tech and crypto bros, elon musk, miriam adelson, the list goes on. trump openly sold his policies to the highest bidders from the comfort of his country club in florida. there's been a lot of talk about how republicans have bent the knee to donald trump. he's completely taken over the party, and everyone must grovel and kiss the ring. but the reason so many republicans are comfortable kissing the ring is because trump has already given in to them where it matters. it's not an economic populist that wants

to guarantee health care for all. he's not following ivanka's lead on abortion rights or gay rights. in fact, he's doing the opposite. and his white house is largely being run by the heritage foundation's russell vote yes, the same heritage foundation that has been empowering the republican party and the corporate takeover of america for decades since ronald reagan. when figuring out how to confront trump over these past ten years, democrats have come up with all sorts of ways to frame him. he's a russian asset, a putin stooge. he's a racist, a sexist, he's a cult leader. and some of those charges are more valid than others, of course. but there is a simpler way of looking at who donald trump is and what he is doing to the country right now. he is a republican, a country club republican, and with his top donor and the world's richest man backing him and the heritage foundation running the show, he's not fighting against the powers that be that he promised he would. instead, he's handing the government over to them. kicking us off tonight is david

sirota, founder and editor in chief of the lover. he's also the oscar nominated writer. right? writer. excuse me, of the hit film don't look up. david, it's great to have you on the show. you wrote about project 2025 during the campaign, saying that project 2025 actually started half a century ago, and that a trump win would solidify it. and that's simply part of this gop heritage foundation master plan that they've been pushing since the late 70s. explain what's happening right now. >> so project. >> 2025 is. >> the. latest iteration of something called mandate for leadership, which was the. policy agenda that the heritage foundation has been putting out since 1980. >> they claim that 60%. >> of their first mandate for leadership in 1980 was embraced and enacted by ronald reagan. the heritage. >> foundation came. >> to be. >> the central. policy wing.

>> of the conservative movement. >> starting in. >> the 1970s, with an infusion of donations from joseph coors. we recount this in our audio series master plan, where the heritage foundation. >> becomes the. >> policy engine. >> russell, vote. >> who you. >> mentioned. >> who runs the. trump white house office of management and budget, really running much of the show here. russell vote comes from the heritage foundation. so what we're seeing right now is the enactment of the heritage foundation's vision, which is a vision trying to significantly. >> reduce the. >> federal government. >> and importantly, trying. >> to say. >> that the executive. >> branch, that the civil service protections for the executive functions of the government can be highly politicized, can be gutted out and then replaced with trump loyalists, that is russell vote's central proposal, the so-called schedule f proposal.

>> and when. >> we look. >> at these firings right now, we should look. >> at them. >> through the prism of trying to pack a political, nonpartisan government jobs with highly political. highly ideologically motivated trump loyalists. >> david, you know, we saw elon musk with his chainsaw theatrics this weekend at cpac saying that it was to highlight the cost cutting he's made up government department is doing. i wonder if musk, like trump himself, is out there getting all this attention, distracting us while the russell vogts of the world, the ones that you were just talking about, working behind the scenes, doing the ugly work below the radar, turning the government over to private interests, wealthy donors, corporations, is there something to that? are we too focused on the shiny loud object, but not to the ones that are doing this serious generational damage to our democracy? >> i think there's definitely something to that. and i think we have to remember the numbers

here. it costs about $300 billion a year. the total. federal workforce, $300 billion a year. that is a minuscule part of the federal budget. and yet musk and vogt are focused on cutting that part of the government. what hasn't been what they haven't focused on is the much larger amount of spending by the government on private contractors. elon musk happens to be. >> the major shareholder. >> in some cases the founder. >> and owner. >> of some of the largest government contractors in the country. so what you're seeing is not just. an effort to reduce the relatively small part of the budget that that's spent on employees, but to turn that part of the government into a political weapon packed with, again, ideological and political loyalists, but not talk about how we make the government actually more efficient by

reducing the amount of government services that rely. >> on, in many. >> cases, much more expensive government contractors. why aren't we talking about that? because the richest man in the world who's helping russell vogt run the show is the beneficiary of the status quo when it comes to private contracting. >> david, we knew a long time ago, i think for people who have been following trump that he was never going to be an economic populist, even though he pretended to be one. in 2016, his biggest legislative win by far in his first term was this tax cut for the rich, just like any republican would have done. and yet, in november, he won the working class one with voters making less than $100,000 per year. if his man of the people routine is so obviously fake, how is he making gains with working class voters? how did he manage to pull that off? >> it's a great question. i think there are two factors. i think inflation. he was able to make an anti-incumbent argument. and let's remember, in the

presidential races, i mean, we are now we've had multiple elections where the incumbent party, both in congress, by the way, and at the presidential level, have been thrown out. americans keep voting for change. they're clearly unhappy. but i also think it's worth saying that the democratic party for years has not embraced a kind of populist message. the democratic party has been allowed to be allowed itself to be the party that pushed through nafta. president clinton, it was the party that helped deregulate wall street, which created the financial crisis. the obama administration promised to deal with that and then took hope and change and made it more of the same by taking all of that energy, promising to crack down on wall street and turning it into a massive wall street bailout while millions of people got foreclosed on. the point being that the democratic party has not portrayed itself as a populist alternative to right wing populism, creating

effectively the conditions for a fake populist like donald trump to win. >> so you've described the problem for the democrats. which leads me perfectly to the question i wanted to ask you as an observer of this, and somebody who follows this very closely, what do you think the democrats in the house and the senate need to do to confront trump and musk at this moment? how should they be going after them? what's the larger story democrats should be telling and doing based on what you just described over their shortcomings over the last several years? >> i think first and foremost, they need to be telling a corruption story. every single day about what is really going on, what this is all about. but i also think the party needs to put forward an alternative vision, a vision that says we are going to be serious about a new kind of populism that contrasts with right wing populism. and then finally, i think the party needs to be gumming up the works wherever it can. democratic senators certain

democratic senators gave votes to donald trump's nominees. there's going to be a budget fight right now. coming up, chuck schumer has already preemptively said, we're not going to we're going to try to avoid a shutdown. now, i'm not saying a shutdown is a good thing, but preemptively retreating is not doesn't seem like the kind of strategy you want. you have the house democratic leader, hakeem jeffries, saying we have no leverage. i mean, the fact that the party reelected its same leadership after losing the election says that there's still this idea that the democratic party doesn't have to change when very clearly it does. or as you as you say, we're going to lose the last shreds of democratic, small d democratic institutions that we have. >> let me ask you about this populist message for a moment, because for all the populist talk, there are so many little ways that trump or dodge are actually hurting working class people. you just published a piece saying trump just limited your payout for airline mishaps. talk about how some of these little policies most people

aren't even hearing about are actually going to cost everybody. >> but that's a great example. so right before trump came into office, a rule was passed giving people the potential for more remuneration when they get wrongly bumped off a flight or when their bags are lost. donald trump just delayed that rule, citing his executive authority. we've seen donald trump attack the consumer financial protection bureau, a bureau that has brought back $20 billion to consumers from getting it from fraud and scammers. pop it all spotlights how donald trump may have the language of populism, but what he is actually doing is the opposite of populism. it is helping the donor class. it is helping the richest people in this country. i mean, again, i go back to the cfpb. it's an agency that polices scammers.

>> david, it's great to have you on the show. thank you so much for making time for us tonight. greatly appreciate it. >> thanks so much, ayman. >> still to come, europe's uncertain future with the outcome. germany's election. we'll tell you about that and we'll tell you about that and why when bad allergies attack... ♪♪ trust claritin to keep you in the game. ♪♪ nothing is proven more powerful for continuous non-drowsy allergy relief. live claritin clear.® ♪♪ month. so switch to the carrier ranked number one in network coverage satisfaction. visit consumer cellular com today lumify. it's kind of amazing. >> wow. >> my go to is lumify eye drops. >> lumify dramatically reduces redness. >> in one minute. >> and look at the difference. >> my eyes. >> my eyes. >> look brighter and whiter. ♪♪

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differently about that responsibility? what are you expecting from the trump administration on ukraine? what do you make of this existential question about whether or not court rulings are going to be treated as optional? why do you think the u.s. government is sending immigrants to guantanamo? watch what's happening in the country and watch what effect it's happening on. politics is politics is how this will turn around. >> donald trump declared on truth social this afternoon that it was a, quote, great day for germany, where much of the world does not agree. conservatives in germany are projected to win today's national elections, and the far right saw a historic surge in an upset to the current left leaning government. exit polling shows the christian democratic union party winning about 29% of the vote. its candidate, friedrich merz, is set to be the country's next chancellor. in second place is the far right alternative for germany, which nearly doubled its support from the last election just four years ago. the results, in a contest which saw the highest voter turnout in

any german election since reunification 35 years ago, reflected a seismic shift at a critical moment for germany and europe marks the biggest victory for the country's far right since world war two. and over the past eight years, germany has built its identity around preventing such a party from gaining power. mainstream politicians have long refused to cooperate with the afd. some of the nation's intelligence community has, in fact labeled the party as extremists, but its gains as the largest opposition party now loom over coalition building and are expected to complicate talks between parties which were already looking to be messy after its previous coalition collapsed last november. afd leader alice weidel told supporters today, quote, our hand remains outstretched to form a government. the once fringe afd has grown into an increasingly radical force ahead of the election. ahead of the election, the long taboo party got boosts

from none other than vice president jd vance. and, yes, trump's billionaire right hand man, elon musk. their validation of the afd drew enormous backlash from german politicians, including the very conservatives who will become germany's next chancellor. he recently spoke of a new contest between democracies and autocracies and a, quote, rupture with the united states. that sharp turn and now strained relationship encapsulates trump's overturning of the world order and is a spark plug for the many issues facing the european union's most powerful country. germany has been in a recession for years, and that puts it in a particularly bad spot if trump moves ahead on his threats to impose tariffs on europe. there's also increasing pressure on germany to do more for european defense than it has in decades. as the u.s. moves to potentially withdraw from providing security. and as ukraine and europe have been sidelined in negotiations to end the war with russia, immigration

is also a top issue, and a rising anti-immigrant sentiment is leaving an opening for the afd again. the party's leader has openly advocated for mass deportations, along with dismantling eu climate policies, attacking diversity measures and closing germany's borders. the party has also previously pushed for germany to exit the eu, and this instability, coupled with the substantial traction that the afd has now gained, opens the door for a profound change in germany's relationship, not just to the eu but to the rest of the world. and what does all of this mean for america? why should we care about this? we're going to get into that and much more. when jason stanley joins more. when jason stanley joins me (♪♪) hi neighbor! you switched to t-mobile home internet yet? trim your hedge. it's $35 bucks a month with no price hikes! bam! it runs on t-mobile's wireless 5g network, so all you gotta do is plug in one cord! t-mobile 5g home internet. just $35 bucks a month. and with price lock, we won't

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that's deeply aware of its troubling nazi past. with me now is jason stanley, professor of philosophy at yale university. he is the author of erasing history how fascists rewrite the past to control the future, a very appropriately titled book for the moment that we find ourselves in. let me just get, broadly speaking, your takeaways from today's elections in germany. >> so the. >> off day. >> is. >> not just. >> any far. >> right party. >> there are so extreme far. >> right that the. >> other far. >> right parties, for example, in france. >> will not work. >> work with them. 20% support for a party that seeks to whitewash germany's nazi past and. speaks in the most extreme terms. of immigrants, the. >> ways that are. >> evocative of. germany's nazi past. >> it's horrifying. >> in a country that has presented itself to the world as the sole country to confront its past. >> so you say 20% support that

the afd or the afd got. how should we read that? does that mean that 20% of the country ideologically believes this, or 20% of the country wanted to express a protest vote, as we saw in some parts of the united states against, you know, the democratic party when they voted for donald trump? or did some people set out? explain that reading. >> german who votes for a pro fascist party as a protest vote. is kind of a comical idea. a few years back, my ex-wife, then wife and i were thinking about moving to germany and she said, well, as a black american, i know that 80 years isn't that long ago. so, you know, this idea that there, you. >> know. >> the idea that that i mean, look, my father fled berlin in july 1939 at the age of six. he came to america as an immigrant. that that country that saved my family's life now intervened in

a german election with to try to sway the vote to the pro fascist party and anti-immigrant because they share their anti-immigrant ideology. history spins. >> yeah. let me ask you about that, more specifically about the us dynamic in this, because it was very interesting. and we're hearing from german officials say, like america's interference in the german election was effectively the same as russian interference in the german election. and that is something quite shocking to hear from german officials. but what role did elon musk did jd vance play in what we saw unfold today? >> so when elon musk spoke to the off day, he he talked about julius caesar praising the german tribes for their warriors 2000 years ago. and he said, you should be proud of that past. in other words, german identity is blood and soil. as the nazis said, musk is not praising germans who are jewish. he's not

praising my german family, my german jewish family. he's praising the blood and soil. germans. that's the side that that that's the conception of german identity that we intervened to support. the vice president of the united states went there and didn't meet with the german chancellor. he met with the head of a party that's considered too extreme, too hateful for other far right, anti-immigrant parties in europe to ally with. that's how bad the situation is. they normalized that party. well. >> why should americans care about what has just happened in germany? i mean, you're talking about two of the biggest, most powerful economies in the world that may begin to ideologically align, especially when you think of what jd vance just said, what elon musk said to the ai of but why would ordinary americans care about this today? >> well, what we're seeing is a gradual alliance of the united states and russia. the off day is a pro russian party. they've

been they've been declared by some elements of the off day, have been declared by the german intelligence to be anti-democratic, pro extremist. we're seeing the united states side again and again with countries and parties that are considered to be anti-democratic. so the concern for america is are we on are we now the standard bearer against freedom and democracy in the world? >> and so, as we mentioned, they made up 20% of the incoming parliament is there. if there is a silver lining in this, is that the opposition or not? i should say the parties that now form the remaining 80% are going to be unified in that they do not want the afd to be part of the current government in any shape or form. >> right. when you're talking about germany, you're talking about a country that yes, there are nazis in germany. yes, there are way more than you want. there are way more people who are the grandkids of nazis, the great grandkids of nazis who are sympathetic to that ideology or

could be made sympathetic. however, you also, unlike the united states, have a powerful anti-fascist coalition. you have a lot of people on both sides of the aisle, conservatives and liberals and progressives who are saying, no, we are going to preserve democracy against the fascist threat. and in that sense, germany retains its reputation as a defender of democracy. >> and, of course, finally, you had friedrich merz basically saying the incoming chancellor expected to be the incoming chancellor, basically say that germany now has to fend for itself when it comes to defense, that the united states and specifically these americans, meaning this administration cannot be dependent, cannot be relied on for a transatlantic security cooperation. what does that mean? >> not just that, i think he said the united states might not be a democracy right soon. so, you know, i mean, the united states is increasingly showing off. that is on the side of

authoritarians, anti-democratic and fascist parties. and so germany, he's absolutely right as a german conservative to stand up for democratic values. >> and what does that mean, then, for the us european relationship going forward? >> well, the us has declared seems to be on the side of russia. so europe better, better be clear that this is no longer the post-world war two order. >> jason stanley, a lot to think about and a troubling situation, i guess, that is emerging in the crisis between the united states and our european allies. thank you so much for helping us break it down. thank you. up next, the dismantling of the pentagon and the power showdown that's brewing between elon musk and kash patel. but right after this break, democratic congressman jake auchincloss is here with a fresh take on how his party should resist trump's agenda. that's next.

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names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. president trump's first 100 days. watch. >> i'm going to be here five days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up half the night reading. executive orders. >> for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> across the board, federal workers are getting mixed messages on how or if they should respond to an email demanding to know the accomplishments that they made last week. this was a move that was made by doge and elon musk, and it is said to have workers prove their value of their employment to none other than elon musk in somewhat of an arbitrary fashion. well, the

state department has told its employees not to respond to that email, but staffers at other agencies have been told to either reply or draft a response to be sent at a later time. and these emails came on the same day that trump said he thinks elon musk should get more aggressive. so, as you can imagine, pressure is now mounting on democrats to do something, anything to try and rein in donald trump and elon musk. my next guest might be the person they are looking for. he recently went public saying flat out that the federal government is not twitter or x. democratic congressman jake klaus of massachusetts joins me now. congressman, it's great to have you back on the show. let me get your thoughts on what's going on here with these emails from doge sent to 2.3 million federal workers. musk said on x that failure to respond by deadline tomorrow will now be taken as a resignation. a. does he have that power? and what do you make of some of these other trump

loyalists like kash patel, marco rubio and others, and even at the pentagon, pete hegseth basically saying, don't comply with this order. >> thanks for. >> having. me on. >> no. >> he does. >> not. >> have that. >> authority. >> and bullying. >> or firing. >> or undermining. >> scientists at the. >> food and drug administration. >> who ensure that medical devices are safe for. >> my. >> constituents or officials at. >> the environmental protection. >> agency who ensure. >> that the taunton. >> river, which. >> runs through. >> my. >> district. >> is clean and. >> potable. >> does not. >> make my constituents lives better. it does. >> not improve americans. >> day to day. >> lives, and it does. >> not lower costs for them. >> it is. >> fundamentally about misdirection because. >> doge is. >> claiming that they are saving costs for americans. >> despite the fact. >> that federal employees account for. less than. 5% of the federal budget, and. it's causing a lot. >> of chaos. >> and is. >> taking a lot. >> of. >> the. >> oxygen out of the room. >> while congressional. >> republicans are about to

walk. into washington. >> d.c, next week and vote to cut. $880 billion from medicaid. >> and they don't. >> want you talking about that. they want you focused on elon. >> musk misdirection, not on the fact that they're about to take away primary care for young kids, perinatal care for mothers at home, care for seniors, substance use care for those struggling with addiction. they have no answers for their constituents about how their constituents are going to be able to get that access to healthcare when they make those cuts. >> i'm going to get to what the democratic party can do, specifically about what you just outlined in a second, but let me just ask you about the legal efforts right now that are underway to try to stop trump and musk from gutting the federal workforce. that have seemingly failed so far. last week, a federal judge denied an effort by labor unions to block the mass firings. friday, you had another judge clearing the way for the trump administration to move ahead with slashing usaid. we now have reporting that 1600 usaid workers are set

to be fired. thousands more will be, you know, be put on place to leave. if courts can't rein trump in, who can? who will. congress judges are going to win some and judges are going to let some pass. this impending government funding fight in march is the critical test of the separation of powers, because what donald trump and russell vote his office of management and budget director, who's actually really the power behind the throne here, not elon musk. what they are trying to do is claim two things. one, they're trying to claim that they have the authority to spend money that congress did not appropriate through emergency powers. and two, they're trying to claim that the president has the power to not spend money that congress did appropriate through the impoundment clause. they're wrong on both. and congress needs to step up. and fight for the article one prerogative that we control the power of the purse. now, obviously, mike johnson is not going to do that. he wants to

take selfies at mar a lago. so democrats are going to have to do that by using the leverage of our votes for this government funding showdown. >> all right. so let me talk to you about your party. you recently said that some democrats have looked to trump and how he was able to build a multi-ethnic, working class coalition and have started to take a page from that book by offering what you call a diet coke version of it. walk us through what you mean and the direction you want your party to go. >> i'm concerned that too many democrats are thinking that the answer to the populism of maga is to offer our own diet coke version of populism, when what we really need is big and bold ideas. we need to offer a differentiated alternative to governance that gets people excited. it has to be one going on offense about the bankruptcy of republican ideas, home insurance, car insurance, health care, housing they're all going to spike over the next 18 months. and we have to drive home that. the chaos and corruption of the trump

administration have not lowered costs for middle class families. but number two, then we have to have our own ideas about how we're going to lower costs. let me put one big idea out there for you. the social media corporations, those same tech billionaires who sat at donald trump's inaugural address and accounted for $12 trillion of market capitalization. let's place a 50% tax on their digital ad revenue and use that money, which will account for hundreds of billions of dollars over the next decade, to fund three separate initiatives one the resuscitation of local journalism, two building a thousand tech high schools throughout the country, and three offering one on one tutoring to every student who has fallen behind since the pandemic. that is something that can get the middle class and the working class excited. that is a different idea than what donald trump showed america when he put these tech titans in front of his own cabinet at his inaugural address. >> you know, we've seen congressmen in recent days, republicans getting called out by constituents at town halls in their home districts from georgia, wisconsin, oregon.

people are showing up, excuse me. outraged by the power given to doge. what comes of this backlash? is there an opportunity here for your party? i mean, will it force republicans to change course and stand up to trump? or does this create an opening for democrats to tap into that sentiment that's growing? >> we're watching these congressional republicans touch a hot stove in slow motion. and i understand why donald trump wants to make them do it. he's got to find a way to scrounge up the dollars to give tax cuts to all these billionaires. i, for the life of me, do not understand why the republicans themselves are going along with it, though, because they have no explanation to their constituents about why they think elon musk should have access to child support payments and social security numbers, or how people are going to pay for at home care for their spouse who may be suffering from dementia or pay for at home, care for their child living with a disability, or pay for perinatal care for as their as

their pregnant expecting their child. 1 in 5 americans rely on medicaid and it's going to be gutted. and republicans have no alternative to offer. >> all right. congressman jack ross of massachusetts, congressman, thank you so much for being on the show. greatly appreciate it. >> all right. >> coming up, you've heard of project 2025, but are you aware of how much of that project has of how much of that project has already been put into effect? swiffer duster traps 4x more dust, for a clean even mom approves of. that reach! making hard to reach... so easy. swiffer. wow. the mother of all cleans. love it or your money back! effective urinary tract health products. >> it truly. >> works miracles. >> the peace. >> the peace. >> of mind ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well. ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell. ♪

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>> when trump got elected? what was. >> the what. >> was the reaction? do you think about ice coming to knock on your front door to. >> you for president trump's first 100 days? alex wagner travels to the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you. >> there on january? >> i was there on january 6th. >> did it surprise you that you were fired, given how resolutely nonpartisan you have been? >> and for more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast, trumpland with alex wagner. >> i have nothing to do with project 2025 that's out there. i haven't read it. i don't want to read it. >> project 2025 is not affiliated with the trump campaign. >> this is a document i know nothing about. it's called project 25. i don't know what the hell it is. it's project 25. he's involved in project, and then they read some of the things and they are extreme. i mean, they're seriously extreme. but i don't know anything about it. >> yeah. when donald trump and jd vance were on the campaign

trail, they went out of their way, as you saw there, to assure voters they have nothing to do with the far right dystopian, as donald trump said, extreme project 2025. of course, those were just outright lies to get votes, because now that they are in office, the heritage foundation's plan is being put into place and it is music to russell vogt's ears. and according to the online project 2025 tracker, the trump administration has already implemented 36% of the far right blueprint, and that includes fulfilling 100% of objectives to rid get rid of usaid, 89% for the state department, 12% for the white house, 58% on personnel, and 56% of the department of justice. and all that is in the first month. again, more than 30% of project 2025 is in place within trump's first 30 days. what will it look like when trump hits 100 days in

office? i am joined now by david, a graham staff writer at the atlantic. he has written extensively about project 2025 and his upcoming book titled the project a project 2025 is reshaping america. you know, david, just correct me if i'm wrong. is it safe to say that what donald trump and jd vance were saying on the campaign trail were outright lies? they knew what project 2025 was. they knew who was behind it, and now they have the guy russell vote and the plan of project 2025 being implemented at lightning speed. >> that's right. it was nonsense. you know russell vote lead omb in trump's first term. at the end, he was the chair of trump's platform committee at the republican national convention. paul dans, the other leader of project 2025, was in the trump administration. and if you look at the list of contributors and you compare it to cabinet appointees and other appointees, there's a ton of overlap. this was always something that was deeply connected with the trump campaign, and it was never true to say otherwise. >> yeah, it would never. this is

not a coincidence, to say the least, of what is happening right now. as i mentioned, we're only a month into trump's term, and already a third of project 2025 has been implemented. it's not hyperbolic to say we could see that rise to 100% by the end of trump's first 100 days, at the rate they're going. >> yeah, they're moving extremely fast. and, you know, even as somebody who has been immersed in this, i've been surprised by the speed. i also think those numbers are a little bit they're a little bit of an underestimate in what we're going to see, because they've achieved sort of the basic orders to do these, but to actually see the impact of them. it's going to be really sweeping. and so we i think we've only started to get the barest sense of what a project 2025 america is really going to look like. >> you know, project 2025 throughout 2024 pulled badly with registered voters. where do you see this going next? i mean next is it a done deal or could outrage from americans derail project 2025 from being implemented? could it spark a backlash? and how much of what

is happening right now with project 2025 is either permanent or irreplaceable? that in two years or four years time, if you get a democratic congress, perhaps a democratic president, this can be reversed. >> yeah. i mean, i think it's a mix. you played that clip of donald trump saying that parts of it are extreme and many of them are extreme. i think even to people who would consider themselves sort of dyed in the wool maga, the sort of redefinitions of the way basic life functions and the services we depend on, you know, banning pornography, banning abortion, all these things are things that aren't going to go over well with the public. some of these things can be undone. some of these things can be stopped by public pressure. but i also think it's true that many of them are going to be hard to put back. and, you know, russ vogt is a smart man who spent a lot of time thinking about how to do these things in a way to make them irreversible. project 2025 talks about the importance of moving quickly, because republicans have, at best, two years to implement these things. they don't want to waste that time. and they came in with a plan to get it all done and as

irreversibly and quickly as they could. >> for democrats, it's all about how you message around this, because they certainly tried before the last election. it didn't work, obviously, or it wasn't enough to stop trump's return. based on your reporting, what is an effective resistance to project 2025? look forward, look like going forward for democrats? >> i mean, i think a lot of it is making sure people understand what's going on and talking about it really clearly. people are going to start to feel this. they need to understand what's happening and why it's happening. and we're already starting to see the signs that people are feeling it and not liking it. you see trump's approval going down. you see the angry town halls and the reaction that members of congress in both parties are getting. and so i think people are going to pay attention to that, and it's going to affect them. it's going to affect their pocketbooks. it's going to affect their lives. it's going to affect their healthcare. and just spotlighting those things and talking about them, i think, is what's going to make them most unpopular. >> i want to talk about your book, which deeply examines how project 2025 is reshaping america. what would you describe as being the most dangerous component of it? i mean, can is

there a part of it that you look, look at and say, you know, what this is, is not just about the laying off of employees or getting rid of usaid, which affects people overseas and has obviously real life consequences. but is there a part of project 2025 that could fundamentally alter or change something about our society and our democracy that is irreversible and doing permanent damage? >> i think it would point to two things. and one of them is the sort of methodical approach they lay out. we've seen elon musk doing this kind of sledgehammer approach, but russ vought and paul danes and others have designed a really careful one. it will stand up better in court, i think, than a lot of the things that elon musk is doing, and it's designed to have a long term effect by people who know the government really well. so methodically, i think that's really important. the other thing that sticks out to me is the way that they talk about gender and family, gender roles. they really want to redefine american society in a really drastic way. you know, this is families, that divorce is rare. families are a man who works and

a woman who stays home. they have children. there's no gender diversity. you know, lgbt people generally are kept in the closet or pushed to the sidelines. so what we're looking at is a really radical reshaping, and it goes through a lot of facets of life, places you wouldn't imagine, places like the workplace, religion in schools, religion in the workplace, and this kind of christian nationalist approach, which, by the way, roosevelt has talked about christian nationalism is a good thing. he says he doesn't see that as a pejorative. it's a really sweet thing planned for society, and that's something we've gotten a little bit of so far, obviously, with the trump administration's gender orders and the, you know, the assault on dei. but that's something we're going to feel a lot more deeply. and i think that would change american society, maybe more than anything else. in project 2025. >> it is something we're going to keep an eye on for as we go forward. we'll see what happens in the next, i guess, 70 days or so, and see whether or not they do actually make it to 100%, but it is something that we should all be mindful of and very cognizant of, because it is something that poses a threat to

our democracy. david graham, thank you so much. great to have you on the show. appreciate your insights. >> thank you. >> a new hour of eamon starts after a quick break. >> lumify. >> it's kind of amazing. >> wow. >> lumify eye drops. dramatically reduce redness. >> in one minute. >> and look at the difference. >> my eyes look brighter. >> and. >> and. >> whiter for up to (♪♪) hi neighbor! you switched to t-mobile home internet yet? trim your hedge. it's $35 bucks a month with no price hikes! bam! it runs on t-mobile's wireless 5g network, so all you gotta do is plug in one cord! t-mobile 5g home internet. just $35 bucks a month. and with price lock, we won't raise your rate on internet. i did it! aaahh!! i switched to t-mobile home internet, and i am loving it! don't sneak up on me like that. (♪♪)

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antiperspirant. try it today@my.com with limited time free shipping. >> on this new hour of ayman, the pentagon firings that defy logic happening at a time of serious geopolitical turmoil. plus, trump faces one legal setback after another, blocking key parts of his promised agenda. and senator sanders takes his anti oligarchy message straight to the heart of gop districts. i'm ayman